00:02:26 <ais523> zzo38: it's rare that they come up
00:02:39 <ais523> also C already has a well-known select function that does something entirely different
00:02:42 <zzo38> I find it come up a lot, actually
00:02:42 <ais523> and it's not common enough to use ~ for it
00:02:48 <ais523> so you'd have to use a different name, like iselect
00:02:59 <zzo38> I was thinking I wanted to use ~< and ~> for those two operations
00:04:52 <FreeFull> I don't get all the fizzbuzzes
00:05:27 <Bike> It's like Hello World, except takes about half a second more thought.
00:06:08 <zzo38> ais523: Did you ever have anything that you would use it, though?
00:06:22 <ais523> zzo38: it would have been useful in writing C-INTERCAL
00:06:36 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, but that isn't what I meant.
00:06:52 <ais523> apart from that, only when writing an FFT, and even then, the version of bit-reverse in terms of select isn't as clear as the implementation in terms of more usual bitwise operators
00:07:34 <FreeFull> Why would you need anything more than putStrLn.unlines.map(\x->case(x)of(x`mod`15==0)->"FizzBuzz";(x`mod`3==0)->"Fizz";(x`mod`5==0)->"Buzz";otherwise->show(x))$[1..100]
00:08:14 <ais523> FreeFull: now can you translate that to Homespring?
00:08:24 <zzo38> ais523: Well, I have had things where I wanted to use, in various other programs too, such as in a Famicom pattern and nametable editor, and in a program to write music for the General Instrument AY-3-8910
00:08:25 <Bike> FreeFull: I'm afraid you're not qualified for this position.
00:08:38 <zzo38> And in a few other things too.
00:08:42 <ais523> zzo38: I've never tried writing any of those programs
00:08:45 <Sgeo> I do like how Template Haskell separates the concept of producing code from the concept of custom syntax
00:08:51 <oerjan> > map(\x->case(x)of(x`mod`15==0)->"FizzBuzz";(x`mod`3==0)->"Fizz";(x`mod`5==0)->"Buzz";otherwise->show(x))$[1..100]
00:08:53 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:19: Parse error in pattern: x `mod` 15
00:09:02 <oerjan> FreeFull: i thought that looked fishy
00:10:15 <ais523> writing a correct fizzbuzz first time without something to warn you about syntax errors is probably quite difficult
00:10:16 <zzo38> ais523: But I have found it useful in other things too, I mean
00:10:24 <FreeFull> oerjan: It'd be even more fishy in Homesprint
00:10:31 <elliott> ais523: hmm, now I kind of want to write a formally verified fizzbuzz
00:11:00 <Bike> uh you can't prove anything about imperative programs sorry
00:11:10 <elliott> Bike: um when did I say it would be imperative
00:11:19 <oerjan> > unwords[case(x`gcd`15)of 15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show x|x<-[1..100]]
00:11:20 <lambdabot> "1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Bu...
00:11:22 <ais523> `run perl -lpe 'for my $x (1..100) { print ($x % 15 == 0 ? "FizzBuzz" : $x % 5 == 0 ? "Buzz" : $x % 3 == 0 ? "Fizz" : $x); }'
00:11:22 * elliott has been trying to prove some things about imperative programs, in Coq.
00:11:30 <FreeFull> > map(\x->case()of_|(x`mod`15==0)->"FizzBuzz"|(x`mod`3==0)->"Fizz";|x`mod`5==0)->"Buzz"|otherwise->show(x))$[1..100]
00:11:31 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:18: parse error on input `|'
00:11:32 <ais523> let's see if I did it first time
00:11:41 <ais523> I may need to do it again because of HackEgo startup time
00:11:55 <ais523> `run perl -le 'for my $x (1..100) { print ($x % 15 == 0 ? "FizzBuzz" : $x % 5 == 0 ? "Buzz" : $x % 3 == 0 ? "Fizz" : $x); }'
00:11:56 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ Fizz \ 4 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 7 \ 8 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 11 \ Fizz \ 13 \ 14 \ FizzBuzz \ 16 \ 17 \ Fizz \ 19 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 22 \ 23 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 26 \ Fizz \ 28 \ 29 \ FizzBuzz \ 31 \ 32 \ Fizz \ 34 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 37 \ 38 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 41 \ Fizz \ 43 \ 44 \ FizzBuzz \ 46 \ 47 \ Fizz \ 49 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 52 \ 53 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 56 \ Fizz \ 58 \
00:12:06 <ais523> does invoking the interpreter incorrectly count?
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00:12:10 <ais523> the program itself was right
00:12:41 <ais523> elliott: use game semantics!
00:13:37 <ais523> elliott: proving things about imperative programs
00:14:29 <FreeFull> oerjan: Too many spaces though
00:14:31 <elliott> ais523: unconvinced that would help :P
00:14:49 <ais523> elliott: it's one of the main applications that was found for it
00:15:02 <elliott> yes but what I'm doing is sort of weird
00:15:37 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: because someone tried and failed to write fizzbuzz in Homespring
00:15:44 <ais523> and I mentioned it here because here was the appropriate channel
00:15:53 <oerjan> FreeFull: um there's just one space
00:16:10 <oerjan> which i left in because removing it would add characters
00:17:45 <oerjan> hm does lambdabot have bang patterns
00:17:47 <Sgeo> It's totally reasonable to consider making a Haskell monad for producing code in another (crappy) language, right?
00:17:52 <oerjan> > unwords[case(x`gcd`15)of!15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show x|x<-[1..100]]
00:17:54 <lambdabot> "1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Bu...
00:18:24 <oerjan> FreeFull: it's not the operator, it's a strictness modifier on a pattern
00:18:43 <ais523> oerjan: is there any reason to strict the pattern? in order to leave no spaces in the program?
00:18:44 <oerjan> there's also a laziness modifier ~, but it wouldn't work there
00:18:49 <oerjan> FreeFull: to 15, actually
00:18:58 <oerjan> ais523: that was what FreeFull demanded :P
00:19:21 <oerjan> FreeFull: entirely redundant semantically there, of course
00:19:25 <ais523> also is there any difference in evaluation order between stricting and not stricting that pattern?
00:19:32 <ais523> clearly it produces the same result
00:19:35 <oerjan> ais523: not in that case, no
00:19:43 <oerjan> case of is strict by default
00:19:44 <ais523> yeah, I meant in that case
00:19:49 <oerjan> let is lazy by default
00:20:00 <kmc> itt fizzbuzz
00:20:20 <ais523> well the original /original/ article was about demonstrating how pattern matching works by giving fizzbuzz as an example
00:20:25 <oerjan> ais523: adding a lazy ~ modifier _would_ break it.
00:20:25 <ais523> so we've sort-of gone full circle
00:20:36 <oerjan> > unwords[case(x`gcd`15)of~15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show x|x<-[1..100]]
00:20:37 <lambdabot> *Exception: <interactive>:3:5-10: Non-exhaustive patterns in pattern binding
00:20:38 <ais523> elliott: original article
00:20:53 <ais523> elliott: I linked the channel to an unfinished attempt at FizzBuzz in Homespring
00:21:00 <ais523> which was written in a comment to a Reddit post
00:21:27 <ais523> and Homespring, which has nothing even remotely resembling arithmetic, is a pretty hard language to write FizzBuzzes in
00:21:29 <oerjan> i thought that should give a list of FizzBuzz only, but not actually err out
00:21:58 <ais523> how do you get non-exhaustive patterns when one of them is _?
00:21:59 <oerjan> because ~15 means "don't actually check the pattern until a variable in it is evaluated" and there is no variable in it
00:22:02 <elliott> > unwords [case x `gcd` 15 of ~15 -> "FizzBuzz" | x <- [1..100]]
00:22:04 <lambdabot> "FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz FizzBuzz Fi...
00:22:13 <elliott> maybe your extra cases are doing weird things.
00:22:21 <elliott> i.e. the ~15 just becomes _irrefutable_
00:22:32 <elliott> > unwords [case x `gcd` 15 of ~15 -> "FizzBuzz"; _ -> "hello" | x <- [1..100]]
00:22:34 <lambdabot> mueval-core: UnknownError "GHC returned a result but said: [GhcError {errMs...
00:22:57 <Bike> i want to see the rest of the error!
00:23:04 <oerjan> elliott: i think we've found a bug in ghc :P
00:23:35 <elliott> i don't get it locally (7.6.2)
00:24:50 <Sgeo> No error here http://ideone.com/JRGZGo
00:25:13 <ais523> > unwords [case 14 of ~15 -> "a", _ -> "b"]
00:25:14 <lambdabot> Pattern syntax in expression context: _ -> "b"
00:25:31 <ais523> > unwords [case 14 of ~15 -> "a"; _ -> "b"]
00:25:33 <lambdabot> mueval-core: UnknownError "GHC returned a result but said: [GhcError {errMs...
00:25:34 <Sgeo> ais523, you put , instead of ;
00:25:44 <Sgeo> lambdabot/hint bug I assume?
00:25:48 <ais523> > case 1 of ~2 -> 2; _ -> 1
00:25:50 <lambdabot> mueval-core: UnknownError "GHC returned a result but said: [GhcError {errMs...
00:25:57 <ais523> there we go, I guess that's a minimal test case
00:25:59 <Bike> wait is that like four nested errors
00:26:17 <ais523> Bike: only three nested errors are visible there, but there might be more
00:26:41 <Bike> i mean it's UnknownError, said, GhcError, errMs[g]
00:26:44 <Sgeo> <lambdabot> mueval-core: UnknownError "GHC returned a result but said: [GhcError {errMsg = \"<interactive>:3:1:\\n Warning: Pattern match(es) are overlapped\\n In a case alternative: _ -> ...\"}
00:26:45 <Sgeo> <lambdabot> ]"
00:26:45 <ais523> Prelude> case 1 of ~2 -> 2; _ -> 1
00:26:57 <ais523> my ghci gave the same warning, and returned 2
00:27:27 <ais523> someone who knows more Haskell than me will need to explain whether the fault is in my understanding of Haskell, or of ghc's
00:27:34 <ais523> (I'm guessing it's mine)
00:27:40 <elliott> that is the correct result
00:27:44 <elliott> ~ makes the pattern irrefutable
00:27:55 <ais523> thus it forces the 1 to match 2?
00:28:00 <elliott> ais523: it blithely assumes it does
00:28:09 <elliott> consider also case undefined of ~(x,y) -> "hello" ++ show x ++ show y
00:28:09 <ais523> and then because the internals of the 2 aren't used anywhere
00:28:20 <ais523> it doesn't notice anything is wrong
00:28:23 <elliott> or fix (\ ~(x:xs) -> 1:x:xs)
00:28:28 <elliott> (which would be too strict without the ~)
00:28:36 <elliott> (since, what if it's []? it'd want to give an error)
00:28:55 <ais523> right, this makes sense
00:29:21 <oerjan> oh wait that line still has a space in it
00:29:32 <Bike> hey you all are nerds right? what's a reader for android that'll let me read public domain text files without pausing to redownload everything every two minutes
00:29:37 <oerjan> > unwords[case(x`gcd`15)of!15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show$x|x<-[1..100]]
00:29:38 <lambdabot> "1 2 Fizz 4 Buzz Fizz 7 8 Fizz Buzz 11 Fizz 13 14 FizzBuzz 16 17 Fizz 19 Bu...
00:29:48 <Bike> like how hard can it be to present text to me
00:29:48 <elliott> Bike: that problem sounds suspiciously practical
00:29:56 <Bike> it's horribly practical ;_;
00:30:04 <ais523> you could… write your own?
00:30:14 <ais523> I don't know of one offhand, not owning an android phone
00:30:35 <FreeFull> oerjan: Might as well use unlines
00:30:57 <oerjan> > unlines[case(x`gcd`15)of!15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show$x|x<-[1..100]]
00:30:58 <lambdabot> "1\n2\nFizz\n4\nBuzz\nFizz\n7\n8\nFizz\nBuzz\n11\nFizz\n13\n14\nFizzBuzz\n1...
00:31:08 <oerjan> it's not immensely pretty
00:31:13 <oerjan> > var$unlines[case(x`gcd`15)of!15->"FizzBuzz";3->"Fizz";5->"Buzz";_->show$x|x<-[1..100]]
00:32:29 <oerjan> it's a nice trick for unquoting a string lambdabot prints
00:33:51 <ais523> var is only used because of its show method, right?
00:34:16 <ais523> > var $ ulines["foo","`echo hi"]
00:34:21 <ais523> > var $ unlines["foo","`echo hi"]
00:34:22 <lambdabot> mueval-core: <stdout>: hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character)
00:34:35 <ais523> FreeFull: lambdabot's Unicode support is buggy
00:34:43 <oerjan> ais523: i think you got a race condition
00:34:45 <Sgeo> > var . take 100 $ repeat '\n'
00:34:47 <ais523> > var $ unlines["foo","`echo hi"]
00:34:57 <ais523> oh, it remembered the leading space that time
00:35:23 <oerjan> it always does, it just has two on the first one
00:36:09 <lambdabot> mueval-core: <stdout>: hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character)
00:37:23 <lambdabot> mueval-core: <stdout>: hPutChar: invalid argument (invalid character)
00:37:36 <oerjan> it seems like it only allows ASCII...
00:37:50 <oerjan> or possibly things get double encoded
00:46:15 <zzo38> Will it work in GCC for one module to specify that a type does not alias while in another module the same type does alias?
00:46:56 <zzo38> Furthermore, does it work in LLVM?
00:49:24 <oerjan> i think someone mentioned segways http://www.dagbladet.no/tegneserie/kellermannen/
00:52:06 <zzo38> Will structures alias each other if one has an anonymous member having the type of the other structure as its first element?
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01:24:52 <hagb4rd> <shachaf>It's just that I see a lot of words with no point to them. Then I look to the left and it says <hagb4rd>. <-- i suggest reading from left to right would at least allow you break after 'hagb4rd' and not to waste your time :p
01:26:06 <shachaf> See, there's a useful suggestion.
01:31:02 <Phantom_Hoover> not if you're using a client with decent justification
01:31:33 <hagb4rd> Phantom_Hoover: do you have a hihlight on hagb4rd?
01:32:30 <Phantom_Hoover> no, hagb4rd, i just happened to check the channel 5 minutes after that exchange and half an hour after anything worthwhile was said
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01:47:10 <Sgeo> So nervous about tomorrow
01:47:18 <Sgeo> Still sad about that other place though
01:47:29 <Sgeo> If I screwed up with them, how can I avoid screwing up with Ipreo?
01:47:49 <Phantom_Hoover> maybe you could not screw up the thing you screwed up before
01:48:03 <Sgeo> I don't know exactly what I screwed up, though.
01:50:07 <Sgeo> Maybe agreeing to send one of my worst pieces of code?
01:51:06 <Sgeo> Which we barely talked about on the phone -- after a lengthy discussion about a piece of code which they suddenly decided was too long ago to look at.
01:53:08 <elliott> maybe they just chose someone else over you
01:54:39 <hagb4rd> Sgeo: you didn't send them a piece of esolang code, did you?
01:55:04 <Sgeo> I did not, unless you consider Tcl to be an esolang.
01:55:26 <Sgeo> But sending Tcl to a company that likes functional programming -> bad idea?
01:55:28 <Sgeo> hagb4rd, thanks
01:55:52 <Bike> why didn't you just send some häskéll
01:56:36 <Sgeo> That wasn't what they asked for. I don't think I have any Haskell stuff listed on my resume. And the one project that I _could_ reasonably send that I did in Haskell seems a bit ... awkward to mention to potential employers
01:56:44 <Sgeo> (It was a thing to attempt to manage speed dating things)
01:56:59 <Bike> are you, like, victorian
02:01:56 <kmc> just make it about 'speed interviews' instead
02:02:22 <Sgeo> I don't think that would quite work
02:04:06 <hagb4rd> try to ask many questions, with an atitude of "what do you have to offer, so i'd like to work for you"
02:05:26 <kmc> Sgeo: close enough?
02:08:23 <Sgeo> It took as input number of straight/bi/gay men and women, and tried to match them up for each round
02:09:25 <Bike> that sounds pretty generalizable
02:10:14 <Sgeo> My algorithm sucked
02:10:47 <Sgeo> Yes. But the algorithm emits non-ideal results
02:11:08 <hagb4rd> like matching bi on gay? or what?
02:11:28 <Sgeo> Say 3 straight men and 3 straight women. First round: m1-f1 m2-f2 m3-f3. Second round: m1-f3 m3-f1 no-match...
02:11:45 <Sgeo> It doesn't manage to minimize people sitting out or number of rounds
02:12:15 <Sgeo> I made the algorithm much uglier in attempts to at least minimize the pain
02:12:38 <pikhq> Yeah, what are you, Victorian?
02:12:51 <Phantom_Hoover> strikes me as an obvious "well here's a vaguely real-world application" thing
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02:22:52 <hagb4rd> for a "straight situation" you could have just "shift" men OR women to the next table
02:23:16 <HackEgo> olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo
02:23:31 <Sgeo> hagb4rd, correct. But it needs to generalize to mixed situations
02:23:44 <Sgeo> There's probably a smarter way to handle it than brute-forcing
02:24:01 <Sgeo> oerjan, this one is 877.
02:24:02 <hagb4rd> yea, thinking of that it's not THAT trivial
02:24:39 <hagb4rd> at least if we don't want to discriminate the dedrophiles
02:25:18 <oerjan> darn, my cache is _still_ stuck despite losing my visited links marking...
02:25:33 <Sgeo> Any case where there are no bisexuals is trivial
02:26:11 <Sgeo> oerjan, http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0877.html hth
02:26:17 <Bike> you should rewrite this as a graph coloring problem.
02:27:31 <Sgeo> I don't know graph theory.
02:28:05 <hagb4rd> or better: graph coloring solution :p
02:28:56 <hagb4rd> selling solutions is easier than selling problems
02:29:08 <Bike> It's pretty easy. You have some dots and some lines and you can look up the answer becaue it was probably worked out decades ago.
02:31:23 <hagb4rd> so the question ist what have graphs in common with dots and lines
02:31:59 <Bike> They're made out of dots and lines! Or in "the lingo", "nodes" or "vertices" and "edges".
02:32:02 <Bike> Did I just blow your mind?
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03:06:23 <Sgeo> Template Haskell Sgeo?
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03:07:11 <shachaf> Bike: why are they called "edges"
03:07:32 <Jafet> It has an edge to it
03:07:51 <Bike> shachaf: euler's "bridges" never really caught on
03:08:28 <Bike> They tried that for a while, but then the geometers came around with bats.
03:08:50 <Jafet> Lines aren't abstract enough.
03:09:47 <hagb4rd> oh they are: the shortest conjuction between two points. but they don't feel comfortable with language anyone could understand
03:10:08 <hagb4rd> it just wouldn't feel right
03:10:21 <Bike> Well, in graph theory edges don't usually have geometric length in the same way as uh, lines, do.
03:10:35 <Sgeo> Wouldn't each edge have length 1?
03:10:37 <Bike> you don't need metrics or nuthin.
03:11:20 <Jafet> What about topological geometry guys
03:11:21 <Sgeo> Each edge is 1 edge in length.
03:11:55 <Sgeo> a and b are 1 edge from eachother. The distance between a and c is 2 edges.
03:12:09 <Bike> each edge is one edge in length. that's pretty deep.
03:12:25 <Bike> ...didn't think that one through!
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03:13:04 <Jafet> Graphs aren't easy.
03:13:16 <oerjan> just convert it to a monoid
03:15:06 <Bike> Oh, graphs actually do form metric spaces. Oopsie.
03:15:34 <Bike> Thanks, box drawing characters.
03:15:52 <Bike> Anyway then you'd usually say all of a b and c are one away from one another.
03:15:56 <hagb4rd> is that comparable with algorithms like A* ..in which an edge still can have a different value than?
03:15:57 <Jafet> graph { a--b; b--c; a--c; }
03:16:02 <Bike> hagb4rd: Weights.
03:16:20 <Jafet> Why are they weights and not masses
03:16:38 <Sgeo> Because <insert church pun here>
03:16:44 <Jafet> (not to mention cumbersome)
03:16:49 <shachaf> Jafet does not understand the gravity of the situation
03:17:14 <Bike> and yes, A* is a pathfinding algorithm for graphs of course.
03:17:52 <Jafet> That's a heavy thought to ponder.
03:18:07 <shachaf> @brain are you pondering what Jafet is pondering?
03:18:08 <lambdabot> Well, I think so, Brain, but do I really need two tongues?
03:18:15 <hagb4rd> yea.. a good practical example is the shortest way in lenth != the sortest time you need to go
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03:18:33 <hagb4rd> so weight is more general than length
03:19:46 <hagb4rd> every edge can have a different weight.. at least the relations stay the same..right?
03:19:53 <Bike> what relations
03:21:54 <hagb4rd> still i don't see clear how exactly that would solving the speed dating problem (which doesn't mean it would not)
03:22:47 <Bike> because you could reframe it easily as graphshit and then use some known algorithm.
03:34:34 <kmc> grapeshot theory
03:35:27 <Jafet> A whiff of graphshit
03:36:04 <Bike> can i help you
03:37:37 <coppro> grapeshot is a shitstorm
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03:53:27 <kmc> http://intothecontinuum.tumblr.com/post/21482592732/mathematica-code-p-t-1-0-9-cos-8-t-1
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03:55:16 <Bike> no 420s in the code :/
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03:57:35 <monqy> that reminds me of http://mathworld.wolfram.com/CannabisCurve.html thank you wolfram mathworld
03:58:06 <Bike> I wonder if there are any pretty curves involved with analysis of the endocanniboid system.
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03:58:14 <kmc> "Botanical Terminology"
03:58:29 <Bike> man i cannot spell that word
03:59:54 <Bike> kmc: A lot more in that category than I'd ever have expected.
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05:06:07 <Sgeo> Wonder if Randall opened up a can of security worms with people taking latest xkcd too seriously...
05:07:45 <Bike> aw man, goatkcd hasn't updated yet.
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06:41:18 <FreeFull> Sgeo: Those that don't understand sarcasm?
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10:17:48 <zzo38> Is there program viewing .ods file without needing editing feature and all that stuff?
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10:27:52 <ion> % apt-cache search '\<ods\>'
10:27:53 <ion> odt2txt - simple converter from OpenDocument Text to plain text
10:28:10 <ion> Good enough?
10:28:50 <shachaf> I,I simple converter from WordArt to plane text
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10:45:34 <ion> Giraffes http://imgur.com/a/EiQ5t http://i.imgur.com/Kkhghkj.jpg
10:46:01 <Taneb> Giraffes are a bit like crystal meth
10:46:28 <ion> I love giraffes.
10:46:37 <ion> They are so long.
10:47:00 <shachaf> monqy: Do you know a good way to draw categories?
10:47:08 <shachaf> Something that expresses all the information in a category.
10:47:14 <shachaf> Rather than just the objects and arrows.
10:47:15 <monqy> all the information?
10:47:25 <shachaf> The normal objects/arrows doesn't show you what composes to what.
10:48:06 <monqy> the solution is clearly a heckload of commutative diagrams???
10:49:03 <ion> Something like http://phpsadness.com/static/pages/sad/52/order-full-eq.png
10:54:41 <ion> Someone should write a “PHP is a monad” tutorial.
10:56:07 <monqy> bad idea bad idea bad idea
10:56:24 <Jafet> The group generated by bad ideas???
10:56:28 <nooga> i'd rather write "PHP is a mistake" tutorial
10:56:33 <Jafet> Do bad ideas have inverses
10:56:59 <monqy> is there such a thing as an idea that is not bad
10:57:42 <Taneb> An idea that is still bad but would completely cancel out another bad idea
10:57:46 <Jafet> Well, the inverse of a bad idea could be another bad idea
10:58:03 <Jafet> (which is mandatory in a group generated only by bad ideas)
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11:07:13 <Taneb> How does PHP compare to ASP
11:08:07 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: erflist: not found
11:08:50 <shachaf> nobody cares about error functions, Sgeo
11:09:05 <ion> taneb: You can implement an SQL injection vulnerability in both.
11:09:31 <Taneb> ion: does ASP at least have consistent function names?
11:10:20 <shachaf> ASP is not a language, is it?
11:11:33 <Taneb> Hmm, it's a framework
11:11:52 <Taneb> So, its function names are as good as VB.NET's
11:12:47 <shachaf> That's a completely different thing from ASP, of course.
11:14:14 <Taneb> I'm sort of meaning everything at once
11:14:30 <atehwa> oerjan: oh thank you for the welcome
11:16:07 <Taneb> > div (4*10^10) (10^10) :: Int
11:16:37 <Taneb> AND THAT IS MY CUE TO LEAVE
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11:16:52 <HackEgo> atehwa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
11:17:20 <shachaf> Sgeo: Did you ever help the Dylan folks?
11:17:52 <Sgeo> Unless a little discussion counts as helping
11:17:58 <Sgeo> I should really go back to sleep
11:25:44 <Sgeo> <KneferilisHome> hello, how would you describe what a first class function and a higher order function are?
11:25:52 <Sgeo> That's an... interesting way to phrase that question
11:26:16 <Sgeo> If e didn't know what those are, wouldn't e ask "What is a first-class function and a higher order function?"?
11:27:13 <shachaf> have you considered a creer in psychology
11:28:10 <ion> sgeo: What happened to your h key?
11:30:13 <ion> shachaf: ((),()) > I,I
11:30:57 <shachaf> "((),())" is some kind of bug or something.
11:34:07 <ion> Oh. Huh. When i was “((),())” i thought it looks like an owl. When i was “I,I” i thought it’s some weird anime emoticon.
11:35:07 <ion> I seem to start making word substitution typos when i have been awake for too long.
11:36:31 <shachaf> ((),()) may also be part of a spider or something.
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11:52:17 <zzo38> It is just some parentheses and comma; what it means depends on the context.
11:56:16 <Jafet> Why is there an ASP.NET but not a Python Web
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14:03:02 <augur> ((),()) is definitely an owl
14:03:28 <augur> specifically, a horned owl
14:04:30 <augur> insufficiently angry looking, but what can you do
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14:06:56 <augur> i guess it could be a sawhet owl
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14:16:50 <Sgeo> I should learn to notice things like receiving an email that says "Monday, March 5th"
14:17:06 <Sgeo> I remember we discussed Monday on the phone, so I do think it is today.'
14:18:44 <Sgeo> Monday, March 4th.
14:25:57 <boily> Pungenday, Chaos 63rd.
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14:50:16 <shachaf> Sgeo: When will you be back?
14:50:33 <Sgeo> Be back later. Phone interview soon.
14:50:43 <Sgeo> Yes, that was an amsg.
14:51:02 <shachaf> I was going to ask when your phone interview was!
14:51:39 <Sgeo> Freenode doesn't really like amsg
14:51:54 <Sgeo> That message didn't get sent to a few channels because I was targetting channels too fast
14:52:04 <boily> is there any bot that logs stats about diaeresis usage?
14:52:07 <shachaf> Hmm, maybe Freenode is trying to tell you something.
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15:09:56 <Gregor> boily: Yes, glogbot. Or at least, it does if you're willing to dig thru the data and find the statistics you want.
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15:47:26 <Sgeo> They said they were a little concerned about my lack of database experience
15:47:36 <Sgeo> Other than that, I think it went well
15:48:06 <Sgeo> Also, the very first question he asked was one I had no idea about
15:50:24 <Sgeo> What gac is in .NET
15:50:40 <FreeFull> No idea myself, never used .NET
16:04:43 <Sgeo> I don't care if it's Microsoft. It has first-class functions and Java doesn't.
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17:04:23 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh dear, I think this Windows partition may be broken beyond repair.
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17:18:14 <Sgeo> Um. Just got an email about a position for a "sr. web crawler"
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17:20:38 <Taneb> Sgeo, what responsibilities are there for that role?
17:21:37 <Sgeo> Oh, it's about creating/maintaining a web crawler
17:21:40 <Sgeo> Not _being_ a web crawler
17:21:49 <Taneb> That sounds a lot better
17:22:40 <Taneb> I hope the "sr." is short for Seor
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17:42:38 <mroman_> http://codepad.org/Svmi1KGx
17:42:50 <mroman_> ^- maybe doing garbage collection this way is not the best way to do it :)
17:43:40 <mroman_> but I don't know how I could else tell the gc that a variable has left it's scope.
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17:50:20 <Taneb> According to #haskell, I'm a man human.
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17:53:54 <mroman_> also... reference counting is vulnerable to cyclic references
17:55:38 <Taneb> I think there's a koan about that
17:56:18 <zzo38> Is your Dungeons&Dragons character also a man human?
17:56:42 <zzo38> (including to be specific, the man, and the human)
17:56:49 <coppro> mroman_: what the hell
17:57:25 <zzo38> Maybe you can use different things to keep track of reference just in case there is cyclic references, you need to do something about it.
17:57:30 <boily> coppro: it's the man. it is human. it is also hu.
17:58:47 <Fiora> the taneb man human greets us
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18:01:00 <coppro> mroman_: your garbage collector
18:01:23 <Taneb> zzo38, my D&D character is a dwarf
18:02:27 <mroman_> ref increases the reference count
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18:05:22 <Gregor> Oh god I'm seeing "garbage collection" and "reference count" in the same conversation.
18:05:31 <Gregor> JUST SAY NO TO REFERENCE COUNTING, BY ALL THAT IS HOLY
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18:16:25 <nortti> http://science.slashdot.org/story/13/03/04/1238258/state-rep-says-biking-is-not-earth-friendly-because-breathing-produces-co2 I'm just gonna leave this here
18:16:38 <boily> 1... reference... AH AH AH!
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18:29:24 <ion> nortti: :-D
18:30:11 <AnotherTest> (iff you're running like a really outdated version and stuff)
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18:43:03 <zzo38> But all (?) animals (including people!) will breathe
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19:20:49 <Deewiant> http://this-plt-life.tumblr.com/post/44462204757/simon-peyton-jones-adding-the-io-monad-to-haskell
19:23:24 <boily> what, you don't slap fishes on your meals?
19:24:48 <boily> (fish slapping being an altogether new type system)
19:25:04 <boily> Deewiant: that blog is very nice and relaxing :)
19:26:24 <Sgeo> http://nekofont.upat.jp/
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19:30:08 <Taneb> I'm probably the only Homestuck/Haskell tumblr on tumblr
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19:31:39 <zzo38> Does anyone know why the documentation for Yamaha OPLL says it can be used with Teletext even though Teletext doesn't have music?
19:35:09 <kmc> maybe there was a failed project to add music to teletext
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19:38:23 <Taneb> kmc, like N64DD or that NES satellite system?
19:39:46 <Bike> satellaview is the weirdest thing
19:40:11 <Fiora> Taneb: am I the only homestuck/SSE tumblr
19:43:23 <Sgeo> I have no idea how buildings in NYC work
19:43:38 <Taneb> Sgeo, there's generally a door and some windows
19:43:54 <FreeFull> zzo38: Does taking oxygen out of water count as breathing?
19:43:59 <Sgeo> There's stores, and then there's the entrance for this compan
19:44:11 <Sgeo> And then above it there's many many stories, all drab looking
19:44:14 <Sgeo> Are those offices
19:44:20 <Sgeo> Do the stores next to the company have offices there?
19:44:53 <Taneb> Some of my friends stayed in a hotel in Edinburgh that was mostly above/behind some shops
19:44:56 <Sgeo> Oh, maybe that thing is an entrance to the building, and Ipreo has a few offices in that building?
19:45:15 <Sgeo> Especially since it's just marked with the address, not company name
19:45:42 <Taneb> Maybe they timeshare
19:46:41 <FreeFull> Maybe it's a rich villain's lair and only looks drab from the outside
19:46:58 <zzo38> FreeFull: I don't think so, but I don't know?
19:47:18 <Bike> NYC's a bit expensive for most villainy startups.
19:47:41 <kmc> isn't villainy well-funded?
19:47:47 <kmc> the truth about the world is that crime does pay
19:48:12 <Bike> well, i'm assuming sgeo's going for indie evil.
19:48:22 <kmc> we may be evil but we haven't sold out!
19:48:34 <Sgeo> Ooh, looks like it's a short walk from the train station
19:48:47 <Sgeo> I'm liking this place more already
19:48:55 <kmc> omg trains and new york and stuff
19:50:51 <zzo38> Crime *might* pay.
19:51:07 <zzo38> But it is risky and illegal.
19:51:12 <Sgeo> Stealing live copper wires does not typically pay.
19:51:23 <Taneb> Stealing elevator cables less so
19:55:14 <FreeFull> A villain doesn't have to break the law to be evil
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20:00:51 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes, but then, is it criminal?
20:02:52 <lambdabot> lexical error in string/character literal at end of input
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20:14:14 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
20:14:47 <Sgeo> Almost like look-and-say with show
20:15:05 <lambdabot> "\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\...
20:15:11 <tswett> Hm. Is there a fixed point of the look-and-say sequence...
20:16:01 <tswett> 1, 11, 21, 1211, 111221, 312211, 13112221, 1113213211, 31131211131221...
20:16:17 <tswett> The first digit is going to keep going 1, 1, 3, 1, 1, 3, ..., isn't it.
20:16:35 <Taneb> > fix ((<>) <$> id <*> map not)
20:16:44 <Taneb> > fix ((<>) <$> id <*> map not) :: [Bool]
20:19:24 <nooodl> tswett: there isn't one in the sequence
20:19:46 <nooodl> but for the function that you keep applying to get it, [2,2] is a fixed point
20:20:46 <tswett> Does it have other fixed points?
20:21:24 <zzo38> I played the Pokemon game with rental, yesterday, and the day before, against my brother we switch sides afterward, this time I managed to win both times but first time I just got lucky.
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20:27:26 <zzo38> He was first player and in that game you take turn to select the command starting with first player on each turn, so the second player can see how long it took for the first player to select his command.
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20:29:48 <zzo38> Perhaps it would be better for it to alternate, like it is done in E-card?
20:38:34 <zzo38> In E-card, you have five minutes to select what card to play. In this game I was playing, the timer can be set up to 90 seconds.
20:38:51 <zzo38> Actually, I mean up to 99 seconds, or no limit.
20:38:56 <zzo38> I had it set to 90 seconds.
20:41:11 <FreeFull> Is there any way I could use realWorld# or anything else with a # from GHC.Prim
20:42:57 <zzo38> You have to enable the extension for MagicHash
20:46:26 <Taneb> University challenge: "Where's Turku? Where's Trondheim?"
20:51:22 <olsner> sounds like #esoteric jeopardy... A: Turku Q: Where's Hexham?
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21:03:38 <zzo38> I don't know what happen in this Pokemon game if the master clock expires.
21:03:50 <oerjan> 02:57:58 <Jafet> Well, the inverse of a bad idea could be another bad idea
21:03:51 <oerjan> 02:58:15 <Jafet> (which is mandatory in a group generated only by bad ideas)
21:04:31 <oerjan> Jafet: sorry, that does not obviously follow. at least if you take the analogy bad = negative, the statement is false for the integers.
21:05:05 <Gregor> But what if, say, good=prime? There are no negative prime numbers.
21:05:26 <oerjan> `run echo "Newsflash: every single letter is 'U'" | uuu
21:05:28 <HackEgo> Uuuuuuuuu: uuuuu uuuuuu uuuuuu uu 'U'
21:06:07 <zzo38> But there are some ideas I have for what such things might want to do: [1] Commands are selected at random for both sides at maximum speed. [2] Whoever has more % of HP remaining wins. [3] Whoever has more happiness wins. [4] Whoever used up less time during their turns in total wins. [5] Whoever has the inferior team at the beginning of the battle wins. [6] It is always a draw.
21:06:18 <zzo38> Do you like any of this?
21:06:31 <oerjan> Gregor: no, but then obviously bad = composite, and the multiplicative group of rationals is still generated by those
21:06:40 <Taneb> zzo38, not keen on 6
21:08:20 <boily> Gregor: G gg gggggg; ggggg /g/ggggg.
21:08:38 <zzo38> Taneb: In all cases including [6] I only mean if the master clock expires, though.
21:09:00 <Taneb> In that case 6 is the best
21:09:16 <Taneb> As long as there's an "infinite time" option
21:09:24 <Taneb> 5 would be hard to measure
21:09:56 <Taneb> Don't know enough about the game to comment on 3
21:10:07 <Taneb> 1 I'm in two minds about
21:10:11 <zzo38> Well, yes. Actually, if there is an option, at least if I did it, you would be able to set the master clock to whatever or infinite, as well as to set what happen when it expires, and it would measure by computer so [5] is not being hard to measure.
21:11:06 <zzo38> I mean [4] is not being hard to measure.
21:11:20 <zzo38> [5] would be difficult unless the computer has levels or tiers perhaps!
21:11:28 <zzo38> With levels and tiers and stuff, it can be measured.
21:12:07 <zzo38> But there is another possibility: [7] The time-wasting threshold is set. If the difference of time used up is less than the threshold, it is a draw, otherwise whoever used up less time in total wins.
21:12:54 <zzo38> Of course probably you will use a shot clock and/or a chess clock as welll, regardless what option you set, if you hare a master clock at all.
21:13:10 <zzo38> Option [6] is like the rule in cricket.
21:13:41 <Taneb> Anyway, I need to bulk out the description of Underload
21:13:51 <Taneb> oerjan, interesting thing about Underload
21:14:27 <zzo38> Official Scrabble tournaments are played with shot clocks, and outside of Britain also with a master clock. Chess boxing uses all three clocks.
21:14:42 <Taneb> oerjan, I'm asking for some
21:15:07 <oerjan> well the fact that it's TC with just 4 of its commands is something i find biasedly interesting :)
21:15:25 <zzo38> Some people prefer to play Scrabble with chess clocks instead.
21:15:36 <Taneb> What is a shot clock
21:15:51 <Taneb> boily, interesting thing about Underload
21:16:16 <zzo38> Shot clock means you have a timer to make your move on your turn, and is reset on every turn.
21:16:51 <zzo38> In games that use that (such as snooker) that is what it is called, so probably it can be called the same in other games too.
21:18:35 <boily> Taneb: yes? underload is alreading interesting. more interest could cause some kind of wibbly-wobbly thing with our galactic black hole, and make the local supercluster implode.
21:18:36 <oerjan> Taneb: i believe elliott intends to feature Deadfish on April 1, so if Underload is featured now it will have less than a month.
21:18:58 <Taneb> oerjan, that means I can wait a bit longer for this
21:19:03 <Taneb> But I'd like it written
21:19:16 <Taneb> boily, I'm writing a description for the featured language
21:19:25 <Taneb> Because elliott doesn't want to and won't let ais523
21:19:41 <oerjan> yeah. i've been thinking vaguely that there should be a suggested blurb page under Esolang:Featured Languages/
21:20:23 <oerjan> Taneb: a small interesting thing is that it has very short quines
21:20:39 <oerjan> without being specifically designed to have them (afaik)
21:22:05 <boily> in my egotistical opinion, I'd say aubergine would make for an interesting featured language.
21:22:09 <oerjan> fizzie: FUNGOT FATIGUE
21:22:21 <Taneb> !underload (:a*S):a*S
21:22:23 <boily> (obviously, I have absolutely no bias towards that particular language, no siree.)
21:22:34 <Taneb> !underload (:~a*S):~a*S
21:23:00 <Taneb> boily, I have a similar opinion of Fueue
21:23:32 <Taneb> !underload (:a~*S):a~*S
21:24:04 <oerjan> Taneb: now make one which embeds an arbitrary element
21:25:53 <Taneb> !underload (what)(~aS:a~*S)~aS:a~*S
21:25:54 <EgoBot> (what)(~aS:a~*S)~aS:a~*S
21:27:06 <boily> Taneb: therefore, we need a cyclic aubergine/fueue quine.
21:27:30 <Taneb> Is that even possible
21:28:19 <olsner> a cyclic aubergine? sounds awesome
21:28:33 <oerjan> <FreeFull> How did oerjan's fizzbuzz go? <-- see the logs hth
21:28:41 <Taneb> I'm the worst at quines
21:28:51 <Taneb> And I'm the guy who knows Fueue the third-best
21:29:18 <Taneb> Arc_Koen, of course
21:30:14 <oerjan> hm we haven't written a Fueue quine yet, have we. or is that what you are trying?
21:30:31 <Taneb> Nah, boily was proposing a cyclic Aubergine/Fueue quine
21:30:57 <Taneb> Imagine a cyclic Malbolge/ORK quine
21:31:56 <Taneb> "There is a scribe called bugger this"
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21:36:37 <zzo38> I think the Interactive Fiction database have no "disjunctive require" option for searching?
21:36:56 -!- fungot has joined.
21:37:03 <zzo38> But it does have "allow", "require", "prohibit", which is OK.
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21:51:58 <oerjan> can any girl genius readers here tell me if there has been an update today? i'd like to know if my cache/whatever issue affects that as well.
21:52:31 <boily> no, last update March 1st.
21:52:32 <oerjan> Taneb: um today is monday
21:52:40 <Taneb> I thought it was Sunday
21:53:12 <olsner> I thought yesterday was monday instead
21:53:33 <Taneb> olsner, so on average, we're right
21:53:35 <Sgeo> Scheduling an appointment for possible internship, but what if that conflicts with scheduling a possible Ipreo in-person meeting'
21:53:54 <olsner> schedule nothing and nothing will conflict
21:54:00 <Taneb> You could ask to reschedule either
21:54:13 <oerjan> olsner: the zen of management?
21:54:29 <olsner> more like the zen of not using a calendar
21:54:41 <olsner> I think management is more about using a calendar
21:55:17 <Taneb> Do nothing twice at once and nothing will conflict with nothing
21:55:20 <Sgeo> Ipreo will be understanding if they suggest a day and I say I'm not available that day, how about a different day?
21:56:10 <olsner> hmm, probably tao, I suspect zen is not used that way ... I also suspect they are not from the same tradition either
21:56:45 <oerjan> although they're both from china afaik
21:56:53 <olsner> Taneb: the sound of one hand not having a scheduling conflict
21:57:10 <oerjan> FreeFull: the bot logs.
21:57:19 <oerjan> hm i see a possible problem here.
21:57:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: welcomes its new prime minister, Ed "Brainfuck Derivative" Centipede | Newsflash: every single letter is 'U' | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
21:58:30 <oerjan> hm the #esoteric got swallowed
21:58:30 <olsner> U're every single letter
21:58:37 -!- oerjan has set topic: #esoteric welcomes its new prime minister, Ed "Brainfuck Derivative" Centipede | Newsflash: every single letter is 'U' | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/.
22:02:08 <FreeFull> What timezone is the bot using?
22:03:30 <FreeFull> oerjan: I'm gonna try to improve on your fizzbuzz
22:03:53 <oerjan> try included lenses while you're at it
22:04:11 <oerjan> glogbot uses UTC afaik
22:04:32 <oerjan> clog uses something weird USy
22:04:48 <oerjan> but lenses are so easy!
22:05:08 <olsner> I think one of the bots is on new zeeland time
22:05:22 <olsner> I guess that's the prevailing time zone in hexham
22:05:38 <zzo38> I think clog is Pacific time same as my timezone; glogbot uses UNIX time so it can be converted to whatever format you need.
22:05:59 <oerjan> HackEgo is on nz language settings, no idea about timezone
22:06:04 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: time: not found
22:06:09 <HackEgo> Mon Mar 4 22:06:09 UTC 2013
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22:07:59 <zzo38> What types in Haskell can be regular reasoners? I think functors is one of them?
22:08:40 <oerjan> what is a regular reasoner
22:09:12 <zzo38> forall p and q: B(p -> q) -> B(Bp -> Bq)
22:09:36 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f) => f (a -> b) -> f (f1 a -> f1 b)
22:09:49 <zzo38> Yes, fmap fmap is what I was thinking of.
22:10:18 -!- FreeFull has joined.
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22:11:59 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b)
22:13:28 <shachaf> zzo38: Are you talking about modal logic or something?
22:14:02 <shachaf> Functor is not what you want for that.
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22:14:40 <shachaf> I mean, they have that property, but they're too strong.
22:14:42 <zzo38> I know, but I mean that Functor is one thing that is able to make such a type.
22:14:42 <lambdabot> (Functor f1, Functor f) => (a -> b) -> f (f1 a) -> f (f1 b)
22:14:54 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, that is what I mean, too
22:15:17 <Bike> it's doxastic logic (again).
22:17:09 <shachaf> Hey, Raymond Smullyan has a book on modal logic?
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22:18:17 <shachaf> Bike: Why didn't you tell me?
22:18:33 -!- wareya has joined.
22:18:53 <Bike> Oh, is that in Mock a Mockingbird?
22:19:34 <Taneb> (B(x), (x -> B(y))) -> B(y)
22:19:52 <Bike> Holy hell, what a cover
22:20:16 <shachaf> don't judge a musician by their cover, Bike
22:21:10 <Taneb> shachaf, me being sleepy and trying to show that possibility is a Monad
22:21:22 <Bike> wrong modal logic?
22:21:32 <shachaf> You don't have quantifiers.
22:22:23 <Taneb> It's "Taneb's awful syntax for a misunderstanding of formal logic and its variations, loosely inspired by Haskell"
22:22:51 <Taneb> Certainty isn't a functor...
22:23:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
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22:25:37 <boily> `run echo -n "We don't know what certainty is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor" >wisdom/certainty
22:25:46 <HackEgo> We don't know what certainty is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor
22:25:53 <boily> `run echo -n "We don't know what certainty is for sure, but at least it isn't a functor." >wisdom/certainty
22:27:01 <oerjan> no, it's not that easy
22:27:28 <oerjan> (why is a dead horse looking at me disapprovingly)
22:28:09 <Jafet> `run cp wisdom/certain{t,l}y && sed -i 's/ty/ly/' wisdom/certainly
22:31:05 <HackEgo> shachaf sprø som selleri and cosplays Nepeta Leijon on weekends.
22:32:50 <boily> I don't, it hasn't reached Canada yet.
22:33:52 <Arc_Koen> zzo38: what is the purpose of "allow"?
22:34:49 <Arc_Koen> @tell Taneb just because I can tell my computer to interpret fueue doesn't mean I know anything about fueue :)
22:35:56 <HackEgo> 825) <Jafet> I wonder if Red Alert 4 will use MMIX \ 850) <Jafet> The world needs better healthcare, social justice and wealth distribution, but a monads library for clojure surely won't hurt \ 955) <Sgeo> This position is asking for "- Extensive experience with API" <Jafet> You're just not qualified, kid.
22:36:17 <Arc_Koen> I wanted to go to the cinema to see Angelopoulos' post-mortem film, but at the last moment I remembered I had to play a game for the qualifications for the french youth go team
22:36:27 <Arc_Koen> so I stayed home instead (qualifications are played on the internet)
22:36:36 <Arc_Koen> then my opponent didn't show up
22:37:20 <Arc_Koen> when the game was finally forfeited, I figured I still had enough time to run to the cinema to see Ben Affleck's Argo
22:37:44 <Arc_Koen> I did so... but the theatre was full
22:38:31 <Jafet> Movies are seen on the internet
22:38:40 <boily> argo must be seen at the cinema.
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22:39:09 <Bike> French Youth Go could be a saturday morning TV show.
22:39:10 <boily> it's been a while since I've played go. I guess I'm now somewhere around 18~19 kyu.
22:40:40 <Arc_Koen> boily: you should start again!
22:42:00 <Arc_Koen> on the plus side, I chatted with the projectionist intern, who happens to be very cute
22:44:51 <boily> I turned to the shōgi side of the foce a long time ago, and nowadays I'm more of a mahjong player than anything else.
22:45:40 <Arc_Koen> you're the second person I met who's gone from go to shogi
22:45:51 <Sgeo> I should play some Go at some point
22:45:57 <Sgeo> Except it's hard to score Go in person :(
22:46:01 <Arc_Koen> I guess two is a fair retribution for the countless chess players who turned go players
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23:29:13 <shachaf> ion: Remind me: Did you need → or End for that game?
23:29:41 <zzo38> boily: I can play shogi and mahjong, as well as chess and go
23:30:22 <zzo38> Arc_Koen: "allow" is simply the default setting; it doesn't actually mean anything.
23:30:42 <boily> zzo38: I know the rules of western chess, but can't play it. I'm better at xiangqi than shōgi. my mahjong is probably good, but my go is rust-y (har har har... *sigh* stupid pun.).
23:31:00 <zzo38> I can play xiangqi too.
23:31:48 <Arc_Koen> let's have a chessgoshogixiangki tournament!
23:32:34 <boily> I claim mornington crescent by way of picadilly!
23:32:48 <Jafet> Resolve ko through a kickboxing match
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23:39:57 <zzo38> What kinds of rules do you like to use with mahjong?
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23:41:30 * Sgeo wants to try Backgammon
23:42:10 <zzo38> I know how to play backgammon too.
23:42:33 <boily> I don't want to play backgammon anymore. the dice always conspire against me.
23:43:29 <Arc_Koen> boily: have you tried using two cups? so that they don't get an opportunity to talk
23:44:47 <zzo38> I want to play backgammon card.
23:47:05 <boily> Arc_Koen: good suggestion. I'll try it next time against my bro.
23:47:11 <boily> zzo38: that exists?
23:47:52 <Arc_Koen> hmm you could replace the dice by decks of 1-2-3-4-5-6 cards
23:48:28 <Arc_Koen> so if you've got a big number of 1s in the beginning, you know you're not gonna have many of them in the endgame
23:49:38 <boily> «Taupes et Compagnie» uses that concept, with a fixed stack of number-tokens.
23:49:45 <boily> (can't remember that game's English name)
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23:51:22 <Jafet> Hypergeometric distribution, in my backgammon?
23:51:24 <zzo38> boily: I don't know if it exists, but I want to play such game.
23:51:53 <zzo38> I generally prefer the games with cards than with dice.
23:51:58 <boily> Arc_Koen, zzo38: it is either "mole in the hole" or "under the ground". http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/321/the-mole-in-the-hole
23:52:59 <boily> Arc_Koen: no, from Montréal, Québec.
23:53:22 <Arc_Koen> or right you mentioned canada earlier
23:55:10 <zzo38> Can you play Pokemon card or Magic: the Gathering cards?
23:56:44 <coppro> boily:I'm from Montreal. is not a valid answer to are you French?
23:57:25 <boily> coppro: I'm not from France, therefore I'm not French.
23:57:48 <zzo38> Do you like Magic: the Puzzling?
23:57:50 <Sgeo> Cockatrice was shut down :(
23:58:03 <boily> nooooooooooooooooooo!
23:58:07 <Jafet> coppro: Montreal isn't french, but Montréal
23:59:14 <boily> time to go eat. I'm hungry.
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