00:08:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:08:52 -!- nooga has joined. 00:16:44 -!- augur has joined. 00:20:08 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:23:30 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:07:25 -!- Yonkie has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:07:26 Sgeo: hey stop torturing yourself 01:07:31 just wait for an answer 01:07:43 -!- Yonkie has joined. 01:07:47 Got an email from the recruiter 01:07:55 what did it say 01:08:03 'I will check. I'm not sure. What time is your internship interview?' 01:09:20 well that sounds good 01:10:04 what in those three sentences make you think you've screwed yourself over? 01:11:42 The part where I received the email after saying that I feel like I screwed myself over. 01:13:32 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:14:57 -!- ion has joined. 01:15:37 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:15:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 01:38:17 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:43:54 I was playing Dungeons&Dragons game today. 01:44:09 I didn't quite advance experience level just yet 01:44:15 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 01:53:08 I forget. zzo38, do you read OOTS? 01:56:14 No 01:56:30 I read books, mostly 01:57:58 I did manage to find the stuff that they took, along with various other things, so we took back our stuff and left everything else there, and then teleport away, twice, which helps. They had some magic alarm in there but I managed to turn it off 01:58:45 But first I want to see if it has a resonant frequency; maybe that can be used. 02:26:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:36:22 I can't wait to be able to eat! 02:38:11 is your mouth currently glued together 02:38:24 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:39:53 iirc it's mostly tape 02:40:02 I'm being slightly poetic >.>. Just waiting for food to cook. 02:40:10 Well, for water to boil, after which food will be cooking. 02:49:46 @hoogle the 02:49:46 GHC.Exts the :: Eq a => [a] -> a 02:49:46 Text.XHtml.Strict thead :: Html -> Html 02:49:46 Text.XHtml.Frameset thead :: Html -> Html 02:49:50 er 02:49:55 > the [1,2,3] 02:49:56 Not in scope: `the' 02:50:33 > GHC.Exts.the [3,4,5] 02:50:36 Not in scope: `GHC.Exts.the' 02:50:41 k 02:51:19 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 02:52:49 it's the element of the list if they're all equal 02:52:50 otherwise an error 02:53:21 great 02:53:38 :( 02:54:14 why frown 02:55:07 errors are ugly 02:55:13 doesn't seem like something that needs to be in GHC.Exts ... 02:55:27 it's used by one of the sugars 02:55:34 i think "SQL-like" extended list comprehensions 03:32:46 shachaf: a friend of mine is thinking of buying a house in EPA! 03:33:01 he says the crime rate is a lot lower than it used to be 03:33:09 school districts are still bad but he isn't planning to have kids 03:36:05 he also says the violence is mostly criminals killing each other 03:36:30 which is the kind of statement that makes me uncomfortable in a social sense, but is probably ok as part of the personal calculation on where to buy a house 03:41:17 o.O 03:49:51 If criminals want to kill each other, well, that is why they are criminals. Just hope they don't kill the other people who are not the criminals that are killing each other all the time. If they are ciminal then hopefully the police catch them and take them to jail, and then kill each other while they are in there (as long as they don't kill the "small" criminals) it makes the police work less job! There is good and bad to good and bad things too. 03:50:43 uh, wow dude. 03:51:25 That is why criminals should only kill each other while in jail. Outside of jail, they should be prevented to do so and should get caught by police instead. 03:52:20 But if you want to buy a house, that isn't the point. 03:52:26 and in jail, it should be an arena 03:52:28 with cameras 03:52:32 and entertainment 03:52:41 in fact, let's make it an island 03:52:42 copumpkin: Yes; security cameras. 03:53:01 yes, the cameras safeguard security and peace 03:53:12 the populace will watch the games and will be peaceful 03:53:34 copumpkin: No, I mean an ordinary jail, not an island. 03:53:42 oh, but I don't 03:54:05 The point to buying a house is: how much it cost, how much you are nearby what you need to go to, how many rooms the house have, and so on. 03:54:38 "In a very different universe where every point in space were independent from all others, white noise images would be common place." 03:54:41 you wouldn't care if your house was right next to a slaughterhouse? 03:54:59 copumpkin: How much noise does a slaughterhouse make? 03:55:15 zzo38: lots, constant squeals of pain and death and fear 03:55:17 well, that would probably violate zoning restrictions. though i live next to a butcher and it's quite tolerable 03:55:23 Bike: O, do you mean the white noise universe? 03:55:34 There's a white noise universe? 03:55:42 copumpkin: Then I suppose if there is a lot of noise I wouldn't want to live there too much. 03:56:21 thank you zzo38 03:56:31 Thzo38? 03:56:38 Kinda hard to pronounce. 03:57:24 Some people get around zoning restrictions that are put in place after the house is already built, by jacking the roof up several metres and then change the basement, change each part individually until you made an entirely new house, which still violates the zoning rule but is considered OK because you just changed the old house, rather than making the new one. 03:57:40 -!- Arc_Koen has quit (Quit: Arc_Koen). 04:14:10 It occurs to me that leap seconds should be mentioned on Snopes. 04:14:39 "There are some minutes with 61 seconds" totally sounds like a silly idea of the type that Snopes would debunk 04:15:03 time suxxx 04:18:09 At what time does the pope start? 04:18:52 Oh, has the conclave finished? 04:20:57 it hasn't started 04:21:43 mass begins in 4 hours, and after that the conclave will begin with a single round of voting 04:21:49 then 4 per day until there is a winner 04:23:43 Sgeo: did you know they had February 30 in Sweden in 1712 04:24:53 so, i guess that answers zzo38's question 04:25:08 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:25:18 related: did you know that between popes, the vatican insignia include a striped umbrella 04:25:24 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sede_vacante.svg 04:27:48 america's next top pope 04:28:20 eh, wasn't benny unpopular with the americans? 04:28:37 don't know much about popes tbh 04:28:47 he was unpopular with me and all my friends but... 04:29:33 i'm mostly thinking of Beaton's comics about John Paul II, not that she's American 04:33:42 i think it's more that JPII was unusually popular 04:34:38 -!- dessos has joined. 04:35:00 "As part of his special emphasis on the universal call to holiness, he beatified 1,340 people and canonised 483 saints, more than the combined tally of his predecessors during the preceding five centuries" dang 04:36:00 that's more than a full calendar's worth of saints 04:36:20 i've never been clear on how saint days work anyway 04:36:49 i wonder if during the eleventh century or so some guy was like "uh, guys? we have a thousand years worth of saints here, how can we have so many feast days if you keep canonizing people" 04:37:47 -!- monqy has joined. 04:39:57 -!- Nisstyre has joined. 04:46:41 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:00:09 They could make one day with many saints, I suppose, if they need to. 05:00:35 Including fictitious saints, if they want to, but usually they have removed them from the calendar in those cases. 05:03:35 (such as Filumena) 05:10:24 However: The removal of an individual from the calendar does not necessarily indicate that he or she is not a saint. 05:21:08 (But it is not really known if Filumena existed or not; there is evidence both ways.) 05:22:43 Wikipedia's just showing me a 1946 play... 05:23:42 I think I just thought of a real-world use case for newLIsp :/ 05:24:39 Sgeo: What such use? 05:24:41 Or partly anyway -- I think Smalltalk could do it too, but then maybe macros are also useful 05:25:05 Suppose you want a continuation-based web server that can serialize the continuations 05:25:21 good supposition 05:25:22 newLisp can easily serialize any part of its state, if I understand correctly. 05:25:36 -!- ogrom has joined. 05:26:08 (Maybe it needs to scale up a lot and storing the continuations so storing all the continuations in memory isn't feasible, or something) 06:00:10 -!- Cutay has joined. 06:00:10 Hey 06:00:31 Hay you! 06:00:40 Hey guys 06:00:50 Yes, what is it, please? 06:00:54 `relcome Cutay 06:01:00 ​Cutay: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 06:01:04 What's up 06:01:23 Cutay: The ceiling is up, and the light is up, and the sky is up. 06:01:40 Wow. That's not what I ment 06:01:46 -!- Cutay has left. 06:01:56 haaaaa. 06:02:30 The z axis is up. 06:02:48 y, surely 06:02:57 GPS satellites are up! 06:03:26 Compared to me most of them are probably pretty far to the left or something. 06:03:49 What axis you want to be up, depends on your coordinate system 06:04:17 How can I plot the GPS satellites on the horoscope? 06:04:41 aren't they geosynchronous? 06:04:46 i don't think they're orbits are close to ecliptic... 06:04:53 Bike: not afair 06:05:12 *their 06:05:17 *the ecliptic 06:05:54 They don't have to be close to the ecliptic, to know their ecliptic longitude 06:06:09 I also want to plot the GPS satellites on the map of the world (giving their hour angle and declination) 06:07:14 If they're not geosynchronyous they must have to keep track of where they are in their orbits, hm 06:08:53 The map of the world showing the hour angle and declination of the objects, together with their rising/setting/midheaven/nadir lines, are sometimes called "astro-graph" or "astro-map". 06:09:08 i think geosynchronous orbits would be _awful_ for triangulating - they're all in the same circle 06:09:23 Are GPS satellites geosynchronous? 06:09:30 Wouldn't you just have them in different positions? 06:09:37 no, that's what i'm pointing out 06:09:41 So you'd have one over New York and one over Mexico City or whatever 06:10:00 Bike: _all_ geosynchronous orbits are 20000 km over the equator 06:10:06 or thereabouts 06:10:09 oh 06:10:13 oops 06:10:25 that's... pretty obvious, isn't it 06:10:29 yeah 06:10:35 If you can't use geosynchronous orbits for triangulation, then it would be the idea that if you have satellites that need triangulation, remember to don't make them geosynchronous, please. 06:10:43 Will do. 06:11:23 If they are over the equator, then I think their declination will be zero. What are their right ascension? 06:11:36 Furthermore, what is their hour angle? 06:11:39 another thing - if you were close to the equator and they were all over it, then even with perfect conditions you wouldn't be able to distinguish south of equator from north of equator 06:12:00 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 06:12:05 by symmetry it would give the same signal times 06:12:21 i get it, i get it >_< 06:12:27 OK 06:12:28 GOOD 06:12:30 This makes sense. 06:12:51 i won't launch a geolocation satellite network into orbits above the equator, i swear 06:12:54 pinky promise 06:13:05 OK 06:13:05 so they cannot be. although i _do_ recall that the russian GLONASS satellites supposedly have better covering over the poles. 06:16:30 Still I would like to plot these artificial objects in horoscopes and astromaps, and for objects with cameras, including the camera too. 06:16:45 I don't know of any software that will do such things. 06:17:12 There's no software to track the positions of artificial satellites? 06:17:35 Bike: There probably are, but not to create charts like I described. 06:17:40 ...eh, I don't know much astrology, but don't they move relatively kinda fast for astrology anyway? Planets are bad enough. 06:17:42 How GPS does it is the satellites *themselves* send you the positions. 06:18:03 (IIRC the datastream contains the telemetry for all the satellites at the time) 06:18:14 Bike: The moon moves much faster, and houses move much faster than that. The speed at which they move isn't the point though. 06:18:40 (The houses move simply because the Earth rotates.) 06:19:32 I mean, they'd change all the time. 06:19:45 The GLONASS is rising in the house of the lion for two seconds, or whatever 06:20:08 Yes, they would change all the time, but that doesn't mean they don't have any coordinates! 06:25:06 I think there are some corrections and things, but I don't know how difficult that makes it to predict their positions in the future? 06:30:06 Do you know? 06:30:34 I do not. 06:31:08 Some people wanted to remove Pluto from their horoscopes because it is not a planet. That is silly; just because it is not a planet, does not mean that it does not have any coordinates. 06:31:37 (A valid reason to remove Pluto would be if you wanted to avoid plotting too many objects at once.) 06:32:19 Do you agree with me about what reason is silly and what is valid? 06:32:43 I agree that I want to know the sign of which pluton I was born under. 06:33:39 Well, you can calculate that easily with the correct software. 06:34:06 Do you mean the ecliptic longitude of Pluto at the time of your birth? 06:34:23 (The astrological signs are just an angular unit of measurement for ecliptic longitude.) 06:34:39 Er, not pluton, what do you call those things... 06:34:55 Plutino. 06:35:09 O, you mean Plutino. 06:35:50 Your request does not make a lot of sense, as it is written. Please be more specific. 06:36:14 People are usually born under the sign of some planet, right? 06:36:22 There are several plutinos. 06:36:28 Bike: No. 06:36:48 No? 06:36:55 Usually the sign you are born "under" actually refers to the ecliptic longitude of the sun at the time of your birth. 06:37:14 The sign you would actually be directly underneath would be the midheaven sign, not the sun sign. 06:37:39 Planets are said to rule certain signs (this is all arbitrary), but the signs are not planets. 06:37:46 Midheaven has a cooler name. 06:38:10 Is there some possible system of drawing a bijection between when you were born and a plutino? 06:39:03 I suppose it could be possible, but I don't know. 06:39:21 Not a bijection, though. 06:39:48 (since a bijection requires going both ways) 06:40:38 But you could calculate the coordinates of the plutinos at the time of your birth (or at a different time, if you want). 06:42:59 The ecliptic longitude of Pluto right now is 281 degrees, which is 11 Capricorn. 06:43:31 " →? <- "->" is an #esoteric interject which i use roughly equivalently to "afk". i think oklopol started it." i think it's a finnish / even more local thing which i thought was a general irc thing back then. 06:43:33 ("11 Capricorn" means 11 degrees past the beginning of the Capricorn sign.) 06:43:49 oklopol: Maybe; can you figure out? 06:44:04 oklopol: I didn't know that, so maybe it isn't necessarily? 06:44:26 See if other Finnish people say about it. 06:47:14 oklopol: ah 06:48:03 it cannot be finnish, it has no suffixes 06:53:47 Bike: Midheaven has a cooler name than what? 06:53:53 Sun. 06:56:51 midheaven = zenith 06:57:24 Zenith is pretty good too. 07:01:02 Actually they aren't quite the same thing. Zenith is the point directly overhead; midheaven is the ecliptic longitude of the local meridian (that is, the meridian overhead). At noon, the sun is at midheaven; it is not necessarily at zenith. (If the sun is at zenith, this is called lahaina noon.) 07:02:02 well the sun cannot be at zenith at the latitudes most (all?) in this channel live at 07:02:31 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:02:57 Well, yes, that is correct; the sun is only at zenith between the tropics. That doesn't make what I said incorrect, though. 07:03:29 ->:lleniköhän 07:13:17 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 07:18:45 Does Windows not send the correct commands to the PC speaker? 07:30:06 Running a DOS program to send the commands on Windows seem to treat mode 2,3,4,5 as the same, even though Wikipedia says otherwise. If running on DOSBox, it makes single clicks for all modes other than 3 and 7 (which is equivalent to mode 3). However from the description it seems to be that mode 2 might also generate a continuous tone; DOSBox doesn't do that, though. 07:30:30 "OUT will then remain high until the counter reaches 1, and will go low for one clock pulse. OUT will then go high again, and the whole process repeats itself." 07:31:05 Does it not work directly because the hardware is faulty? 07:31:55 Or is it something Windows does? 07:34:17 Decimal mode does seem to work. 07:35:35 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: you seem quite stressed). 07:36:59 Actually it is correct that mode 2 does not generate a continuous tone. "This mode creates a high output signal that drops low for one input signal cycle (0.8381 uS), which is too fast to make a difference to the PC speaker (see mode 3)." (from osdev) 07:42:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 07:50:49 kmc: Why? 07:50:57 why which 07:52:35 House in EPA. 07:52:40 Did I miss multiple messages? 07:52:51 * shachaf hasn't been very around. 07:58:32 -!- augur_ has joined. 07:59:05 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:06 -!- wareya has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:35 -!- wareya has joined. 08:01:15 why buy a house in EPA? uh, I guess because it's cheap and he wants to live somewhere around there 08:03:55 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 08:04:04 what's epa? 08:05:04 Eicosapentaenoic acid 08:07:15 ah, buying a house in acid sounds like a bad deal 08:09:45 it's East Palo Alto 08:09:48 shachaf's hood 08:10:16 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:13:12 gangstahood 08:13:30 shangstahood 09:05:59 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: I bet you like cake). 09:26:33 -!- nooga has joined. 09:30:58 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: sleep). 10:34:07 -!- azaq23 has joined. 11:04:37 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 11:43:46 -!- abumirqaan has quit (*.net *.split). 11:43:47 -!- lahwran has quit (*.net *.split). 11:58:59 -!- Jafet has joined. 11:59:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:55:03 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:39 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:05:37 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 13:13:05 -!- lahwran has joined. 13:27:16 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 13:35:14 -!- fftw has joined. 13:40:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 13:47:57 -!- abumirqaan has joined. 13:53:43 -!- augur has joined. 14:29:51 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:30:12 -!- augur has joined. 14:49:04 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Quit: hagb4rd). 15:00:30 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:03:46 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:04:04 -!- augur has joined. 15:17:01 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 15:20:36 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:23:45 -!- augur has joined. 15:53:50 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:54:45 test? 15:55:19 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:55:26 ~metar CYUL 15:55:27 CYUL 121550Z 29002KT 10SM -RA FEW006 SCT012 OVC016 06/06 A2980 RMK SF2SC2SC4 SLP093 15:55:55 ah. everything is fine, except for the crappy weather. 15:56:32 ~hello boily 15:56:33 --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi 15:56:36 bad bot. 15:57:58 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:03:51 -!- Arc_Koen has joined. 16:03:53 * Sgeo is utterly petrified of his interview tomorrow 16:12:50 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 257 seconds). 16:19:17 :) 16:19:51 is it a final one ? 16:21:26 Erm, don't know? 16:28:36 Sgeo: so was it rescheduled? 16:30:07 I told the internship person that I wanted to reschedule, but didn't manage to set a date before she left for the day, but she did see that I wanted to reschedule, so if I don't show up to that hopefully it won't be bad 16:30:19 The Cablevision interview is still going on :D 16:31:26 wait, what 16:31:52 http://www.coinheist.com/rubik/a_regular_crossword/ https://github.com/ekmett/ersatz/commit/9e16d70986ad4169160d3e5647dc1c1ca05b49f0 16:32:02 so she heard you telling her you wanted to rescheduled, but then said "oh wait it's 4pm I gotta go" and hung up on you? 16:32:28 she sounds french! 16:32:44 Arc_Koen, email conversation 16:33:05 still that's weird 16:33:38 Considering my delays in replying to her, not really 16:35:40 ok, well, just relax and you'll have a great interview tomorrow 16:47:11 -!- oonbotti has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 16:48:47 elliott: of course my bot won't answer. it was lunchtime. 16:49:50 very sensible. 16:53:18 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 17:07:33 It be tea time! 17:08:31 some day in my life, I'll have to celebrate tea time. 17:14:31 tea time was earlier, Sgeo 17:14:35 god you're so dumb 17:17:05 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:18:04 "prove that the integral from 0 to N of ln (1 + x) with respect to x is equal to (N + 1) ln (N + 1) - N, where N is a positive constant" 17:18:15 I have no idea where to start with that 17:23:47 Any pointers? 17:24:17 i take it you're not allowed to just use the rules for integrating ln that are found in every calculus text? 17:24:57 That... may be a good idea 17:25:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_integrals_of_logarithmic_functions 17:25:15 thmc 17:25:33 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:25:48 what's the rules for integrating a function composition? in this case int from 0 to N of g(f(x)) dx, where g(x) = ln x and f(x) = x + 1. 17:26:00 Sorry for stupid'ing 17:26:11 Taneb: if you aren't allowed to assume these rules, maybe you can integrate by parts 17:26:14 as in http://www.math.com/tables/integrals/more/ln.htm 17:26:49 Thanks, I'll go with that 17:26:57 boily: I don't think there is a general one 17:27:30 integration by parts is evil, but not as evil as coordinate substitution. 17:27:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Substitution_rule 17:27:48 that? 17:29:30 something like that. like, you have shapes defined with spherical coordinates, and you need to convert that to cartesian. 17:46:26 -!- Bike has joined. 17:48:06 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:49:42 Taneb has disconnected. that vicious integral got the better of him, it seems. 17:56:28 Phantom_Hoover, going to try to re-watch that Farscape episode 18:02:11 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:07:48 I'd like to watch some hard sci-fi at some point 18:11:27 there are hard sci-fi tv shows? 18:12:22 you could watch Solaris, I guess, but it's like three hours long and Russian 18:12:35 working without functional extensionality is the definition of pain 18:13:10 a book doesn't count as being watchable? 18:13:27 ghost in the shell: stand alone complex is fun hard(?) scifi 18:13:31 i watched a book for hours but it didn't do shit :( 18:13:46 I've heard good things about planetes as far as hard scifi goes but I need to see that 18:13:47 bookwatching 18:14:06 oh planetes is cool 18:14:13 planetes is cool indeed. 18:14:26 when i thik of hard sci fi i mostly think of weird shit like anything Egan writes, though 18:14:40 actually wow I really do need to see it 18:14:42 maybe after gundam00 18:14:58 `learn bookwatching is when you conflagrate birdwatching and the books used to identify them in the same object. 18:15:06 I knew that. 18:15:40 patlabor is also a realistic scifi series but it's much more 20 minutes into the future and not quite so serious (no cool spaceships or stuff) 18:17:36 ke"egan" mcallister 18:17:38 COINCIDENCE??????? 18:18:03 zardoz ftw 18:19:15 I don't know if I'd have called GitS:SAC "hard", really. 18:19:34 I suppose those things are relative, though. 18:21:12 Except for the Mohs scale of sci-fi hardness, that's pretty absolute. 18:21:30 I think it's based on scratching a book with another book. 18:21:54 you drop one book on the other, corner first 18:21:58 GITS is a manga, that's usually softcover, it can't be very hard. 18:22:10 qed i guess 18:22:49 Sgeo, meanwhile farscape was a tv series from the early 2000s so logically it'd be a video cassette 18:23:03 so: p. hard 18:23:13 PH DVDs are pretty old..... 18:23:19 Ph.D.VDs 18:24:02 pretty sure all the films i watched as a child were on cassette 18:24:29 wp sez dvd didn't become dominant until the mid 2000s 18:24:31 Old but VERSATILE. 18:24:37 well I guess 18:24:55 BUT farscape is 1993-2003 sez wp 18:24:58 2003 is kinda mid 2000s!!! 18:25:04 DVDs are pretty hard but I think you could break them easily? 18:25:18 Or scratch them. 18:25:24 "DVD-Video became the dominant form of home video distribution in Japan when it first went on sale in 1996, but did not become the dominant form of home video distribution in the United States until June 15, 2003, when weekly DVD-Video in the United States rentals began outnumbering weekly VHS cassette rentals, reflecting the rapid adoption rate of the technology in the U.S. marketplace." 18:25:25 1993...???????/ 18:26:11 Bike, but you could definitely scratch paper with a dvd 18:26:48 But what about the covers? 18:27:03 same deal 18:27:28 i think we're missing the real issue which is that elliott has somehow managed to confuse 1999 and 1993 18:27:36 i meant 1999 18:27:45 it's basically the same though 18:27:46 Did you? 18:28:45 elliott: in 1993, I didn't exist 18:28:47 the nineties never existed. it is a conspiracy deployed by the government. you can go straight from 1989 to 2000 without a single significant second having ever occured. 18:28:52 In 1999, I was 5 years old 18:29:17 HA i was FOUR 18:29:33 Get off my lawn. 18:32:11 ha i was uh 18:32:12 um 18:32:14 probably 4 or 5 or something 18:32:28 it's kind of tricky to work out how old you are i think 18:32:32 Off! 18:32:34 it would be easy if months didn't exist 18:32:49 protip, you're younger than me 18:33:43 well that's hard to remember because you're so much more terrible 18:34:21 i'm pretty sure if you get more terrible than you you wrap back around to good 18:35:10 I feel old seeing y'all being young'uns in 1999. I was ten at that time. 18:35:53 omg you were one of the Big Ones 18:36:09 * Bike aims shotgun at elliott 18:36:49 boily: wait I mentally assumed you were like fizzie's age 18:36:57 I guess that is my instinctive reaction to weird foreign people!!! 18:37:20 Phantom_Hoover: I wouldn't call myself a big one. I was kinda scrawny, and still vaguely am. 18:37:36 elliott: I'm not weird, I'm not foreign, and how old is fizzie really& 18:37:38 that doesn't matter 18:37:41 s/&/?/ 18:37:52 48 18:38:01 fizzie is like a billion 18:38:39 = 48 18:38:52 yes. 18:39:01 I'm not the oldest thing around here. 18:39:11 Also I'm not even 30. 18:39:24 (And won't be for over a month!) 18:39:57 are you seriously not 30 18:40:26 I am seriously still 29, as far as I know. 18:40:39 i kinda parse fizzie as almost-but-not-quite-30 18:40:40 forever 18:40:46 not sure he makes sense to be 30 18:41:56 but he's so mature 18:42:14 you can't be that... dadly in your 20s 18:43:51 -!- monqy has joined. 18:44:58 it's true fizzie would be a fantastic dad 18:45:01 honorary dad of #esoteric 18:46:03 cpressey i could believe being in his 20s 18:46:09 even though he's like 60 now 18:47:47 fizzie: yeah, people can probably debate for ages what 'hard' means :P 18:48:04 Phantom_Hoover: come on cpressey is an old man 18:48:09 he definitely fits the bill 18:48:29 i don't remember him being that old! 18:48:44 he's like at least 25 billion years old 18:48:46 * c00kiemon5ter oO(hard is the hearts of people not sharing their cookies with me) 18:49:29 So roughly 25 fizzies. 18:50:56 I don't know whether to feel old or young 18:51:20 Sgeo: toy story came out over 15 years ago 18:51:28 time is a perception issue 18:52:03 stop lying fiora 18:52:13 i'm still pretty much ten!! 18:52:20 arenot :< 18:52:22 lunchtime is doubly perceptive. 18:53:06 anyway, nowadays we have been having the time cube 18:54:04 there really is a wikipédia article on any subject. even the time cube. 18:54:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:54:17 Fiora: um 18:54:23 by 15 do you mean 18 18:54:29 well 17 18:55:13 that's a lot of years 18:55:15 fungot, Add +0- as One = nothing 18:55:15 c00kiemon5ter: no no no. how would i get a wrong answer 18:55:47 elliott: p. sure 17 is above 15 18:55:53 fungot, one is a demonic religious lie, one - does not exist, except in death state. 18:55:54 c00kiemon5ter: like unlambda. the square is circled, the fnord 18:56:04 exactly. 18:56:19 fungot, why are your hapaxes fnorded again? 18:56:20 Bike: i find that rather silly, actually apparently i've totalled more than 20k typed in the manifest there is no simple, portable module system? ( as suggested by alan bawden in 1996. others can move their own creations ahead, but keep in mind 18:56:57 http://tunes.org/wiki/alan_20bawden.html k 18:57:38 ending with "but keep in mind" sounds like Yoda-speech :D 19:05:23 wow the toy story films lasted a really long time 19:10:53 nah, toy story 1 is only 81 minutes long 19:12:16 nooodl: cf. c00kiemon5ter and time perception. 19:14:47 how does c00kiemon5ter perceive time 19:15:01 in terms of cookies??? 19:15:25 (i once knew someone who seemed to measure time by the yardstick of pregnancy) 19:16:20 which means that a year is ~1.35 babies. 19:20:19 i believe the rough quote was "3 months? If I got pregnant now I'd be 3 months pregnant by the time it arrived!" 19:20:37 hahaha 19:21:25 that's quite the 19:21:26 um 19:23:45 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 19:24:15 Hi 19:29:26 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:29:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:29:57 -!- augur has joined. 19:37:15 I guess http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters doesn't have room for compilers? 19:37:28 is this about trustfuck 19:37:34 >.> 19:39:12 Sgeo: I guess that's why it's called EsoInterpreters rather than EsoCompilers 19:43:20 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:47:10 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 19:47:35 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Amelia that's new 19:56:39 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:00:23 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 20:00:31 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Client Quit). 20:00:51 -!- Snowyowl has joined. 20:12:49 AnotherTest: that's short, too. 20:14:53 Is there any decent software for drawing 2D "ascii art", that could be used to write Befunge source code? 20:15:07 I grow weary of Notepad. 20:18:39 jave is good. I wonder if it is still in active development... 20:19:21 nothing new since 2010, but still: http://www.jave.de/ 20:20:01 http://www.coinheist.com/rubik/a_regular_crossword/ [...] <-- looks fun 20:20:14 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:20:24 * oerjan wioll haven imported into paint program 20:20:41 i solved a regular crossword in february 20:20:46 it was really great 20:20:50 what's a wioll haven? 20:21:03 http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~param/quotes/guide.html 20:21:10 see dr streetmentioner's famous grammar 20:23:10 thanks. maintenant j'aurai avoir eu compris. 20:23:27 (got to love those French verbs. they're like lego blocks, but with more exceptions!) 20:24:34 i'll have had understood. english verbs are lego blocky too! 20:24:52 maybe in a more boring way, though 20:25:00 less pretty to pronounce 20:25:05 yeah 20:25:18 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 20:25:35 "been" sounds so awful. c'mon, english 20:25:45 your exceptions are less interesting and of a lower quality :p 20:27:19 imo the best part of english verbs is that a good amount of them are conjugated in a completely different way from the rest 20:27:41 i ran back to france but they didn't want me 20:33:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:17 -!- itsy has joined. 20:34:32 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 20:35:37 -!- itsy has quit (Client Quit). 20:37:12 well the french ones are kinda mine technically 20:37:25 the english language definitely isn't 20:37:49 -!- augur has joined. 20:37:59 what 20:38:26 -!- itsy has joined. 20:38:58 boily mentioned "[my] exceptions" when i talked about english verb conjugations, but actually closer to french than to english (i'm belgiumian) 20:39:12 *but i'm actually closer to 20:39:24 oh. i don't know anything about belgian 20:39:58 ...such as that it no longer exists, ok 20:41:14 oh yeah the Belgian Language isn't a thing 20:41:32 what i'm actually saying is: half of belgium speaks dutch and the other half speaks french 20:41:44 while i'm from the dutch-speaking part, pretty much everyone is expected to know french 20:41:50 right 20:42:07 are the francophones expected to know dutch? 20:43:07 not really. their secondary schools usually teach either english or dutch, students get to choose 20:43:18 -!- ogrom has joined. 20:43:21 and pretty much nobody picks dutch because english is Super Cool 20:43:41 us dutch-speaking belgians really like complaining about all the effort we put into learning our neighbours' language while we don't get anything in return! 20:44:07 gosh 20:44:38 -!- Snowyowl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:44:39 historically, french was the language of the elite in belgium, too. only the plebeians spoke dutch 20:45:10 there were political parties called "taalpartijen" (language parties) that just rebelled against the oppression of dutch speakers! 20:45:26 eventually dutch became a Real Official Language 20:45:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:45:42 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:45:42 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:47:25 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:48:18 speaking of: dutch is a really horrible language when it comes to verbs. (it's a lot like german) 20:48:31 -!- itsy has changed nick to impomatic. 20:48:32 the infamous V2 alignment. 20:48:42 ask elliott about Ziet!!! 20:49:09 oh yes the V2 alignment is pretty great too 20:49:21 (is dutch the only language that does anything like it?) 20:49:41 err and german :| 20:50:00 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:50:42 german! 20:50:58 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:51:02 wow turns out V2 word order is crazy 20:52:30 what is V2 alignment? that thing of putting subordinate verbs usually last? 20:52:52 that's VF word order 20:52:55 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:53:03 wat 20:53:10 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:53:15 V2 alignment is where the verb of the main clause is always in the second place 20:53:22 ah 20:53:29 what's the problem with that? 20:53:33 "the kids / PLAYED / in the garden / today" 20:53:39 "in the garden / PLAYED / the kids / today" 20:53:42 oh right. norwegian has that too, but not the subordinate last placement 20:53:42 etc 20:53:48 “Dit boek las ik gesteren”. 20:53:54 * boily shudders in abject terror 20:54:10 -!- carado has joined. 20:54:33 it's common to hear native dutch speakers say stuff like "this book read i yesterday" when speaking "dunglish" 20:54:40 so it doesn't sound weird to me. well a _bit_, we don't switch objects first that often. 20:54:57 or wait 20:55:13 may i suggest a better name than "dunglish" 20:55:14 "Denne boka leste jeg i går." yep perfectly normal. 20:55:23 nooodl: that's strange 20:55:24 like, anything 20:55:42 do dutch dub movies and tv shows? 20:55:53 nooodl: so basically it's probably all germanic languages _except_ english >:) 20:55:55 myname: luckily, no, not often 20:56:09 only stuff like nickolodeon cartoons 20:56:16 otherwise we prefer subtitles 20:56:21 «J'ai lu ce livre hier.» "He leído este libro ayer." 20:56:25 the french, though... 20:56:28 nooodl: i had a discussion about germany being a rare exception in dubbing everything 20:56:33 never realized it before 20:56:45 dubbing policy is completely different in France than here. 20:56:55 they even subtitle movies from Québec! 20:56:56 nontheless, i'd never say something like "the book read i yesterday" 20:57:25 would you if you were trying to imitate Yoda 20:57:31 nooodl: shouldn't you be better in english in this case? 20:57:52 norwegian has this little subtlety in subordinate clauses that you can often detect good, but not perfect non-native speakers with: certain adverbs suddenly come before the verb instead of after. but the verb still comes before lot of stuff. 20:58:30 myname: young people are generally pretty good at english 20:58:41 "Jeg har ikke lest den boka" - i haven't read that book. "Jeg sa at jeg ikke har lest den boka." - i said that i haven't read that book. 20:58:42 okay 20:59:18 back in the day there was a lot less influence from english media so old people still say adorable things like that 21:00:09 oerjan: we have the same thing, but I didn't realize it was a subtlety 21:00:13 nooodl: i see, i can think of germans doing that, too 21:00:22 boily: haha, we've actually done something similar 21:00:35 but i think germans are more known for that become/get issue 21:00:51 until like 2005-ish, tv shows and movies in "dutch dutch" (dutch from the netherlands) got subtitled 21:01:10 and it was controversial. some dutch people felt we were poking fun at them for their "weird" accent 21:01:17 so these days they're gone :') 21:03:36 oerjan: that sounds awful 21:05:15 hello guys 21:06:28 nooodl: on Monday nights, there's this thing called Douteux: http://douteux.org/ 21:06:50 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:07:04 we get to see weird and strange and wtfing extracts from various excerpts and random stuff. 21:07:33 when we stumble on something from België, we often have multiple subtiles in both Dutch and French, with a voiceover in english. 21:07:39 the end-effect is surprising. 21:07:47 Arc_Koen: bonsoir! 21:07:54 haha yes 21:08:02 cinemas here tend to be bilingual too 21:08:18 -!- sebbu has joined. 21:08:27 salut boily 21:08:29 so you're watching an english movie with dutch subtitles and french subtitles... 21:08:34 I'm just coming back from the cinema 21:08:58 the director told us to cancel one of the two films because they had (AGAIN) heating problems 21:09:16 well the spectators weren't happy about it 21:09:37 you work at a cinema? 21:09:44 we had that one guy explaining to us how he had just walked 20 minutes in the snow, despite his (very) old age, to see that movie 21:09:48 well, I volunteer, mostly 21:09:52 ah 21:09:58 that sounds pretty cool 21:10:03 sometimes they call me for weekends and I get paid 21:10:27 so the director told him he could not have spectators watch a film in the cold 21:10:36 and the guy "I SURVIVED THE WAR I DON'T CARE IF IT'S COLD" 21:10:51 it is cool :) 21:11:03 especially since the new projectionist is a very pretty girl 21:11:45 it's comforting to hear it's snowing over there too (what the HELL is that about) 21:12:03 yeah well 21:12:08 Clinical strength head&shoulders smells bad 21:12:15 I usually go to the cinema with my bike 21:12:44 and I usually don't mind biking in the snow 21:12:58 but I'm stuck with crutches 21:13:04 so I borrowed my parents' car 21:13:17 this was my first time alone in a car AND THERE WAS THAT FREAKY SNOW EVERYWHERE 21:13:20 that was horrible 21:14:08 snow is not freaky, it loves you, hugs you, and wants you to be their forever. 21:14:21 hm. ok. well, snow can be a little bit freaky. 21:15:04 one of the cars in front of me stopped in a rising road 21:15:15 (is that how you call that? a route going up) 21:15:23 so I stopped too. 21:15:32 then the car drove away 21:15:36 AND I WAS STUCK 21:15:57 I thought I was doing something wrong, but after a while it was clear it was the snow 21:16:25 and because of me the car behind me got stuck too 21:16:39 after a while I managed to drive again but they didn't :) 21:19:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:19:21 i should fill some esointerpreters gap 21:20:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 21:21:56 unefunge is just befunge without ^ v and |? 21:22:11 oh, and g and p commands having one less argument 21:22:44 it doesn't seem to be described anywhere on the internet, at the moment... 21:22:55 http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html 21:23:20 ooh unefunge is based on Funge-98 not Funge-93 21:25:48 that makes it a lot tougher to implement... 21:25:58 why that? 21:26:14 because funge-98 is a lot tougher than funge-93 21:26:20 nooodl, at the same time, it's just a tape 21:26:38 yes but you have to deal with a lot of funge-98's extra stuff 21:26:45 Taneb: yeah, but a tape with a crazy Lahey space 21:26:47 True 21:26:51 And True 21:26:52 lahey space isn't really that crazy 21:27:02 well not in 1D it isn't 21:27:29 and i was planning to write it in golfscript... the longer that gets the more unwritable it gets, too 21:27:33 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 21:29:14 what's the problem with lahey space? 21:31:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:36:14 myname: it's not quite a torus that's what 21:36:29 so? 21:36:54 so, I just wanted to make a joke, because in one dimension, it's exactly the same as a torus 21:36:58 if direction = right and cell = last: newcell = first 21:37:01 what's the rules for integrating a function composition? in this case int from 0 to N of g(f(x)) dx, where g(x) = ln x and f(x) = x + 1. 21:37:14 messy. but when f is linear it's easy. 21:37:57 (basically you try substituting what's inside, but in the general case it's just luck whether that makes it easier or not.) 21:38:48 -!- augur has joined. 21:38:53 oerjan: ok ok but what formula do I type in my calculator?? 21:39:18 i have no idea 21:40:12 presumably there's some syntax for integrating a function 21:40:38 fnInt(! 21:42:54 i'm glad wolfram alpha forces me to log into it with facebook these days. 21:43:50 what 21:43:54 [insert logarithm joke here] 21:44:23 afaiu the kind of integration you can do without massive theory is essentially just running differentiation backwards and hoping the pieces fit together, which they'll do if it's a school test. hth. 21:44:54 oh sweet 21:44:56 -!- Bike has joined. 21:45:18 so it's exactly the same method as the one we used to solve a polynom in prepschool 21:45:35 and the massive theory gives you the added option of "we can prove this integral has no expression in the functions you know." 21:45:45 haha 21:46:23 "massive theory" sounds like a great band name... but it probably just reminds me of "massive attack" 21:46:37 which also makes it a worse band name 21:47:07 imagine massive attack doing a cover of the big bang theory soundtrack 21:47:36 oerjan: why is integration terrible 21:47:40 derivatives are pretty nice 21:47:48 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risch_algorithm 21:47:50 but then there's integration and it's all whoah i cant let this be easy 4 u lol 21:47:56 gonna shit all in your symmetry 21:48:08 well i've read the saying "differentiation is a handcraft, integration is an art" 21:48:34 more like an fart :--/ 21:48:47 i like half-integration 21:48:53 i forget how impossible it is, probably p. impossible 21:49:30 istr reading even mathematica doesn't implement the full risch algorithm. 21:49:40 although maybe they've done that later 21:49:42 well do you ever need it 21:50:08 how often do you want to integrate inverse sine of a polynomial over double exponentiation of inversion 21:50:36 (oerjan: I don't know what you did to my brain, but everyday you use new four~five letter acronyms, and everyday I understand them) 21:50:36 of course mathematica doesn't restrict the answer to elementary functions, which means it cannot use just the Risch algorithm anyhow. 21:50:37 i just looked up http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_integrals_of_rational_functions and i feel like vomiting now 21:50:54 Arc_Koen: yay! 21:51:01 let me tell you about secant cubed 21:51:21 i can't imagine people using these formulae 21:51:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integral_of_secant_cubed i love that there's a fucking article for this though 21:52:14 you brought back repressed memories of CÉGEP. I do not thank you. 21:52:43 "classes élémentaires aux grandes écoles préparatoires"? 21:52:54 it sounds like you got the right words but in the wrong order 21:53:10 elliott: on the plus side, _numerical_ integration is easier than numerical differentiation 21:53:59 oh god the housemate and his visitor came _back_ again 21:54:13 is the visitor a female 21:54:36 Arc_Koen: Collège d'Enseignement Général Et Professionnel. it goes after high school and before university. 21:54:57 so the second e was a decoy 21:55:07 nope. i fear they'll be doing gaming 21:55:22 or maybe movie watching 21:55:23 a very clever decoy to lead exchange students astray. 21:55:24 oerjan: but automatic differentiation is easier still. :( 21:55:30 hi elliott 21:55:35 hellooooooerjan 21:55:52 Arc_Koen: i'm pretty sure i've used "istr" many times. 21:56:13 shachaf: you need to mash the «o» and «e» key really fast together to produce œrjan. 21:56:18 now that you mention it istr so, yes 21:56:21 today i used istr and i think i picked it up here... 21:57:42 heegan mcallister 21:57:45 what's with all this rain 21:57:47 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:58:34 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:58:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:00:51 hi shachaf 22:00:54 where does it rain 22:35:23 new york 22:35:39 Maybe not anymore. 22:36:27 I should go do something interview related 22:36:29 it's still snowing here 22:36:37 Sgeo: sleep helps 22:36:57 Arc_Koen, I do need to eat dinner 22:37:05 that helps too 22:42:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 22:46:58 -!- nooga has joined. 22:47:50 wow i made a turing machine that implements H9+ 22:47:57 and it's a little over 9000 states 22:47:58 :( 22:48:29 `learn bookwatching is when you conflagrate birdwatching and the books used to identify them in the same object. 22:48:37 i think you conflagrated another word there 22:48:57 nooodl: not Q? 22:49:02 ooh is that where you make a portmanteau and then light it on fire 22:49:32 http://bpaste.net/show/J1D5SWaK8h4avDKJr3Mq/ -- works for http://morphett.info/turing/turing.html 22:49:33 could be. 22:49:47 oerjan: at first i thought "ugh Q is going to be hard" but now that i think about it it should be fun 22:50:28 nooodl: wait, 9000 states? 22:50:31 anyway, the only reason i wrote this is: prove that a UTM can execute a H9+ program (read: copy one of two strings based on some input symbols) 22:50:45 9000 states indeed 22:51:03 > length "99 bottles of beer on the wall, 99 bottles of beer. take one down, pass it around, 99 bottles of beer on the wall!" * 100 22:51:05 11400 22:51:22 oh it has no spaces 22:51:22 i guess that _is_ shorter than just writing it directly :P 22:51:32 so it's a bit shorter 22:51:53 wait, you _did_ just insert the whole text? :P 22:51:57 yes 22:52:11 how else did you expect it to become 9000 states big :o 22:52:24 i was wondering if it was plausible without it 22:52:26 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:53:04 anyway, removing the spaces is just an annoying thing i had to do because this javascript turing machine simulator doesn't differentiate between an "ascii space" symbol and blank symbol 22:53:41 i kinda want to add this to the http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters chain, behind "UTM" 22:54:13 aha 22:54:34 wait you mean i started this. 22:55:40 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:56:04 hmm? started what 22:56:45 i just added that chain yesterday :P 22:56:49 *chain table 22:56:50 oh yeah 22:56:53 someone linked it in here today 22:57:17 i was gonna extend it by implenting unefunge in something, but it felt like a lot of work 22:57:21 so i did this instead! 22:57:58 yeah as a general rule the chains stop because the things on the left are too hard to implement, and the things on the right are too hard to implement anything with :) 22:58:12 i don't know if i should append this to the chain 22:59:09 -!- nooga has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 22:59:10 also an idea: there's been basic -> brainfuck converters or something, haven't there? that might be a way to insert something between brainfuck and bub 22:59:22 hm that Bub -> UTM link is broken, it's one of Nthern's ones. 22:59:39 nooodl: well we only count esolangs in that table 23:00:02 oh. dang 23:00:22 -!- nooga has joined. 23:00:36 so, implementing anything as a turing machine isn't an option 23:00:45 because there isn't an "UTM" row? 23:00:51 um yes 23:00:58 we consider UTM's close enough. 23:01:10 however i assume it's just using his Bub converter on the BF -> UTM conversion 23:01:30 which means it's the same as the whirl ones, which have strikethroughs 23:02:01 nooodl: a more serious problem is that what's implemented is _a_ universal turing machine, not all turing machines directly. 23:02:43 which should, admittedly be just a matter of inserting an extra step, by the definition of universal turing machine. 23:03:45 maybe "UTM" shouldn't be on this page at all 23:03:51 perhaps. 23:03:53 because it's not really a language 23:03:59 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left). 23:05:06 a flogscript implementation of unefunge is "really easy" but it'd just take some time. writing flogscript is annoying as hell 23:05:22 solution: get zzo38 to do it 23:05:38 brilliant! 23:07:25 so far the only cycle is the Bub -> Brainfuck one, which basically exists because the languages are nearly trivially equivalent and brainfuck has a self-interpreter. 23:09:24 another idea i just had was if there were a fueue interpretation in unlambda, then that would give a longer path from intercal. 23:09:56 unlambda isn't hard to write 23:09:59 it's just a pain to read or eit 23:10:01 *edit 23:10:15 -!- augur has joined. 23:10:32 most write-only language I know 23:10:36 heh 23:11:41 oh hm unlambda isn't good at handling bytes. 23:13:06 oh i forgot to add the Emmental -> Underload one... 23:13:12 indeed, although you can get around it using ASCII tables 23:13:40 you need those for I/O anyway. 23:13:41 does fueue deal with ascii codes? 23:13:45 yes 23:14:07 something like underload in unlambda wouldn't need an ASCII table, because you can treat characters as opaque values in unlambda 23:14:27 indeed. i've been considering underload in unlambda before. 23:14:51 I'm not sure that unlambda programs are so interesting 23:14:54 programming /techniques/ are 23:15:08 but given that you can't read them, there's not a lot of benefit to them existing 23:15:11 except to prove a point 23:15:40 * Sgeo renames Trustfuck to Braintrust 23:15:42 i hear unlambda is a lot like lazy k 23:16:00 Sgeo: REFLECTIONS ON FUCKING FUCK, I SAID 23:16:22 and there's kind of a scheme -> lazy k converter, apparently 23:16:37 there's a scheme -> unlambda too 23:16:43 also "kind of" 23:17:29 nice 23:17:37 (is that what ais523 meant by unlambda being "easy to write") 23:17:53 nooodl: yeah, it's easy to compile into 23:18:01 even by hand, as long as you don't make typos 23:18:09 (because it's unreadable, if you do make a typo, you're unlikely to ever find it) 23:18:16 It's also easy to compile from! 23:18:21 Therefore readable. Right? 23:20:45 The combinatory representation, (S (K (S I)) (S (K K) I)) is much longer than the representation as a lambda term, λx.λy.(y x). This is typical. In general, the T[ ] construction may expand a lambda term of length n to a combinatorial term of length Θ(3n)[citation needed]. 23:21:03 (whoops, that's Theta(3^n)) 23:21:12 anyway who wrote this, ugh 23:21:48 do lambda terms even have a "length" 23:23:03 you could define a half-reasonable one, i guess, or just use textual length 23:23:45 nooodl: if you're going _really_ deep, there's a way to do it linearly instead 23:24:18 or nearly so. 23:25:28 (pass the arguments as a list, and refer them by indexing the list with the deBruijn index) 23:26:59 nooodl: any half-reasonable one will be the same when you ignore constant factors, as theta does. 23:27:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 23:28:25 of course much of the design of my unlambda self-interpreter was how to factor functions into bits that _didn't_ combinatorially blow up. 23:29:05 ^list 23:29:05 Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:29:23 Still 879 23:30:47 ​^list is for MSPA 23:32:11 Well, please arrange for an olist update. 23:33:09 `echo bin/slist 23:33:10 bin/slist 23:33:17 `cat bin/slist 23:33:18 echo Sgeo is a jobby 23:33:25 I should fix that 23:33:37 ? 23:33:47 Who vandaliszed the liszt? 23:33:56 Phantom_Hoover, a while ago, iir` 23:33:58 iirc 23:33:59 `url 23:34:02 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:34:35 you can't prove nothin' 23:35:12 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:36:04 yes I can http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/rev/16641639a4cf 23:36:39 I don't know how to revert :( 23:36:51 `rv 2243 23:36:53 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: rv: not found 23:36:58 `revert 2243 23:37:02 Done. 23:37:08 that reverts the entire hackego state. 23:37:27 oops 23:37:34 `revert 2416 23:37:37 Sgeo, it was someone impersonating me 23:37:38 Done. 23:37:38 undo undoes a single commit. 23:37:41 but doesn't always work. 23:37:43 anyone could have done it! 23:37:59 probably it was aloril 23:38:08 he's had it in for me since day 1 23:40:02 aloril, with assistance... from shachaf 23:41:27 `undo 2243 23:41:33 patching file slist \ Hunk #1 FAILED at 1. \ 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file slist.rej 23:41:40 `slist 23:41:42 Sgeo is a jobby 23:42:18 `echo "echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot" > bin/slist 23:42:20 ​"echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot" > bin/slist 23:42:33 `run echo "echo Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot" > bin/slist 23:42:37 No output. 23:43:38 Sgeo: We don't do lists that way anymore... 23:43:59 `run cp bin/{empty,s}list 23:44:02 `echo `echo 23:44:04 No output. 23:44:05 ​`echo 23:44:18 `run for n in Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot; do echo $n >> bin/slist; done 23:44:21 `echo `echo test 23:44:22 No output. 23:44:24 ​`echo test 23:47:40 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:59:42 -!- DHeadshot has joined.