< 1363565135 687668 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to read http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ah6ie/algorithmic_trading_for_dummies/ < 1363565291 247035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we need is dummy training for algorithms < 1363565359 777109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: There's going to be a mosh gsoc? < 1363565366 437337 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we hope < 1363565488 617340 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is slightly sad that he never did gsoc < 1363565497 258366 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1363565528 397163 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1363565862 26579 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let i = 0 :+ 1 :: Complex CReal in (((i**i**i)**i**i)**i**i)**i < 1363565865 798833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1363565875 946088 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let i = 0 :+ 1 :: Complex CReal in ((i**i**i)**i**i)**i < 1363565879 616140 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1363565888 606233 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let i = 0 :+ 1 :: Complex CReal in (i**i**i)**i < 1363565892 476324 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1363565900 746589 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let i = 0 :+ 1 :: Complex CReal in i**i < 1363565902 556301 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.2078795763507619085469556198349787700339 :+ 0.0 < 1363565919 643461 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're all real) < 1363566211 223572 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, that's a bit neat, it's exp(i log i) < 1363566254 736693 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1363566285 250874 :sebbu3!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1363566285 455027 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363566396 187228 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1363566805 524854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1363567361 676728 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363567393 341353 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: ho'w s mac lane < 1363567464 608167 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1363567464 906671 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1363567511 396406 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alright? i read it while i'm waiting and i'm in the section about limits which is after the section about adjunctions and before the section about monads. that's where it is. < 1363567546 307002 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a "monad tutorial in your future" < 1363567553 236402 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1363567563 927432 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should do exercise ddarius gave me about limits < 1363567680 38171 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but maybe i should wait until im less busy??. ive only been sort of glancing over the exercises and working them a bit in my head since i usually read it when i dont really have time to fully work through them....in this "first pass" im focusing more on getting an intuition over an ability to actually work through things < 1363567701 986619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"al right" < 1363568712 196864 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: SPIM < 1363568735 746456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_someone_ seems idle. < 1363569091 298207 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1363569243 856803 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363569251 268404 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363569407 627792 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1363569522 316989 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1363569683 283440 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363570142 567968 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Arc_Koen < 1363571283 728028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old School vs. Non-Coding Hackers < 1363571285 907635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hacker would not whine about missing code. Hackers see missing code as an opportunity to build. Hackers like to build. < 1363571304 141167 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop or i'll link you haskell porn < 1363571308 187299 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :better call our hacker classifier to classify this one < 1363571409 317045 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should learn Frege < 1363571415 246953 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could introduce it at work, maybe < 1363571433 827096 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they named a language after frege of all people? < 1363571488 145511 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'He is considered to be one of the founders of modern logic and made major contributions to the foundations of mathematics.' < 1363571490 977808 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so bad about that? < 1363571516 107680 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly he's just old < 1363571541 114687 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's my schönfinkel, man < 1363571568 466991 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he's kind of an anti-semite, though i guess that doesn't matter for much when you're a hundred years dead, eh < 1363571667 107748 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1363571726 698361 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be kinda neat if there was a language named after some nyaya guy < 1363571781 98456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frege oder nich Frege, das ist die Frage < 1363571813 427995 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nicht < 1363571851 487345 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyaya < 1363571861 34088 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1363572121 967995 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see wikipedia < 1363572416 377251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1363572471 547416 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any good Linux distros for laptops from, say, the mid-to-late 90s? < 1363572493 678230 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It ran DOS < 1363572622 407354 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a nickle, kid. Buy yourself a real computer. < 1363572748 467279 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I buy myself a better radio? < 1363572748 895025 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F_thxN8B8q8/ThDsmMfdNrI/AAAAAAAAABs/oOMaW22O-CM/s537/11+-+1 < 1363572800 999277 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-AM3tMmG_l6M/ThDsmRcTTHI/AAAAAAAAABw/X9kvx5G_PqA/s537/11+-+2 < 1363572968 527549 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363573019 697596 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/comments/7649896/Evil-defense-contractor-develops-graphene-membrane-that-makes-it-vastly-less-expensive-to-filter-water-for-drinking < 1363573022 547972 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1363573140 287215 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow Sgeo < 1363573156 717891 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that radio is impressive in its ability to avoid any vestige of retro charm < 1363573182 824106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean it's not the sort of radio you think of when you think of 'old radio'? < 1363573508 668606 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to ask why you'd ask for such a distro, sgeo < 1363573541 948364 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your laptop there is undoubtedly worse than my last three cell phones. < 1363573601 851834 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :my netbook is worse than my phone. it's a bit sad. < 1363573642 367844 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, because it woild be fun to use old equipment like that? < 1363573714 597804 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Linux so much heavier than DOS? < 1363573754 277918 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno perhaps it's because Linux actually does something < 1363573755 629197 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because DOS proper is basically a BIOS abstraction layer? < 1363573806 368724 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, if you're going to retrocompute, at least do it with something old enough to be interesting < 1363573823 197595 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least obscure enough. < 1363573831 437777 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At *least* do OS/2 on that sucker or something. < 1363573841 513314 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that PARC laptop i forgot the name of < 1363573841 721680 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 1.0 was supported until 2001 wtf < 1363573865 629004 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running DOS on a mid-90s system is... basically boring. < 1363573866 227706 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the laptop has a busted battery anyway :( < 1363573967 503502 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 1.0 used tiled windowing.... < 1363574082 270111 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows/386 is followed by Windows/286. Who was in charge of naming o.O < 1363574106 877501 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was < 1363574141 730172 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should get that eye looked at sgeo < 1363574143 955977 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was < 1363574149 977591 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 didn't really become NT. < 1363574153 297692 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you could also say xenix became windows < 1363574160 597650 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :985) o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was < 1363574160 805849 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be mostly wrong but you still said it < 1363574167 528874 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS/2 was supposed to be the successor to old Windows and DOS. < 1363574177 17543 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But NT replaced it instead. < 1363574178 882927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.computerhope.com/history/windows.htm < 1363574186 67919 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Following its decision not to develop operating systems cooperatively with IBM, Microsoft changes the name of OS/2 to Windows NT.' < 1363574201 997944 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very damned false. < 1363574274 230457 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1363574891 259469 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363575455 697236 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40edb.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363575579 288106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1363575617 47831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read somewhere that the "par" operator in linear logic means that you have both, but you are not allowed to use them together. Is this correct? < 1363575666 267837 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.oldsoftware.com/ < 1363575675 717194 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This site looks like it's as old as the stuff it's selling < 1363575994 588832 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if they still have some original stock < 1363576132 405199 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1363576367 928316 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how the beth numbers and the gimel function are both things related to cardinality despite the fact that beth and gimel look the same < 1363576419 962334 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beth and gimel don't look the same < 1363576455 148597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't look the same at all. < 1363576461 658444 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ב ג < 1363576461 867464 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and 入 and 人 are utterly identical. < 1363576476 344995 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1363576480 638187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going off http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimel_function < 1363576491 350671 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it... looks a lot like beth < 1363576492 95625 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I guess they could look similar in a fixed-with font, somewhat < 1363576501 698673 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that font is really awful. < 1363576506 448238 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I could still easily tell the difference < 1363576515 239000 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's the standard latex one... < 1363576548 438978 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the standard latex font draw the dot in the beth? < 1363576586 123938 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1363576622 867619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That letter is messed up. < 1363576651 429171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, complaining about bet and kaf would be more justified. < 1363576656 848796 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ב כ < 1363576685 198560 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about yud and English apostrophes < 1363576708 29060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those are different. י and ' < 1363576721 106827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might also complain about ר ד < 1363576741 209772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or ס ם? < 1363576751 398732 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would not complain about those < 1363576782 668934 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : only occurs at the end of words, iircםAlso < 1363576787 654315 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363576797 699471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1363576808 249792 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ס can also occur at the end of words. < 1363576827 629627 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :One's boxy, the other's curvy < 1363576829 992429 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nbd < 1363576845 419214 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1363576848 589871 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Now try distinguishing ユ and コ. < 1363576852 78686 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In sloppy handwriting. < 1363576854 688590 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1363576872 618306 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Easy: The first one looks like a ב and the second one looks like a כ. < 1363576876 758669 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god why are foreign langauges all so messy *idly scribbles u's and v's all over the place* < 1363576886 128784 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Smartass. < 1363577264 560595 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople JOIN :#esoteric < 1363577892 149429 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1363578848 770491 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1363579162 999794 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a programming language where the return values of subroutines can be a number, or they can be one of the three special values: open bus, CIRAM bank 0, CIRAM bank 1. < 1363579169 179983 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363579284 749685 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the use it is for, it can be used, so it is not for general purpose. < 1363579405 50852 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1363579426 320055 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363579446 580164 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1363579473 747553 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1363579473 956099 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363579568 600674 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1363579581 607671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of analog Verilog? < 1363579821 910009 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db40edb.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363579866 790242 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e3df.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363580071 453375 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can any C compilers make a optimization for inverted logic? < 1363580244 21040 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1363580404 899648 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a fast way to erase a DRAM from software? < 1363580587 720814 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1363580627 99295 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363581155 620487 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1363583663 261672 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81e3df.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363583740 145214 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1363585140 982338 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1363585174 600840 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587449 791318 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Metadata_INI < 1363587505 642665 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587505 852180 :kallisti!~eris@168.28.136.16 QUIT :Changing host < 1363587505 852318 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587523 428853 :kallisti_!~eris@168.28.136.16 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587727 467446 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363587761 771502 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Can any C compilers make a optimization for inverted logic?" what do you mean? < 1363587814 2361 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587842 631764 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1363587842 879364 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363587922 459980 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: In some cases the boolean logic will be inverted in some circumstances, and depending on the CPU architecture and other things, moving around the places where the logic is inverted might be more efficient. < 1363587950 418285 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah, i learned that inverting gates (nand/nor) are faster that non-inverting gates (and/or) < 1363587954 939561 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CMOS < 1363587960 817012 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's probably a simplification < 1363587979 831211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if you want to bulk-erase memory, then maybe non-temporal store instructions are useful, but I don't know for sure < 1363588078 950862 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverted = invertible? < 1363588085 253324 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1363588122 231501 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i thought this had to do with zzo's earlier bijective haskell thing.) < 1363588197 338661 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, that is one example of what I mean, but that specific example would probably be more useful for hardware programming languages such as Verilog. However, that is not the only example. Even in software, there may be cases based on how the boolean values are used in various numbers and bitwise operations and branch instructions and so on. < 1363588242 697644 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I did write about the bijective Haskell stuff in ##logic channel, and they say yes it can work, to make the Curry-Howard of the logic with numbers. < 1363588260 727477 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1363588296 811868 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that is the Curry-Howard of the logic with numbers! Now you know. < 1363588328 631347 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is ##logic? < 1363588361 521143 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did nothing other than asking and discussing that question, and only one other person replied, but it helped. < 1363588437 211560 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A person who's in this channel, too! < 1363588454 911512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, in that case it is. < 1363588471 537576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :They didn't answer on this channel, though. < 1363591081 617946 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^list < 1363591082 164820 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1363591451 505494 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a NAND/NOR is both more powerful and faster? < 1363591769 215953 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: gotta go < 1363592243 485713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull may never know if a NAND/NOR is both more powerful and faster < 1363593039 116033 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is NAND/NOR more powerful and faster? < 1363593039 416277 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now, what if we entered it into sarahbot :) at least relative to his current level < 1363593065 685779 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1363593065 898246 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1363593483 645962 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363593583 708431 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f733.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363595808 842448 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-206-141.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1363596087 553026 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363596192 203021 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm beginning to learn the hard way that just because someone sounds like they know what they're talking about, doesn't imply that they actually know what they're talking about < 1363596289 182432 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can also be partially. < 1363596396 612927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :A knowledgeable-seeming person on Reddit seems to be convinced that UTM == classical computers < 1363596404 123379 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363596443 912406 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone made a user page in esolang wiki, which says "My web blog; visit the following website page" but actually it is linked to a Wikipedia article for an airline in Poland. The user page says they live in Austria, though. < 1363596448 713241 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric : #esoteric is supposed to be about esoteric programming languages, but is really a couple of dozen people being weird < 1363596453 272667 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like being weird < 1363596906 615504 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I may have been a bit lax with my terminology." < 1363597126 473405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is ThatOtherPerson < 1363597146 842404 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's just that other person < 1363597151 882541 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run slist | rot13 < 1363597158 131495 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: slist: command not found < 1363597163 492712 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what!! < 1363597178 422558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened < 1363597254 752398 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone baleeted it < 1363597346 322081 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1363597348 712768 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :accesslog \ a.out \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ Category:Self-modifying \ dbg.out \ dkVb20VL \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ link \ paste \ prefs \ prefs.bf \ quines \ quotes \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ sgfoobar \ share \ slist.orig \ slist. < 1363597365 893909 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls slist < 1363597369 203369 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access slist: No such file or directory \ /bin/ls: cannot access slist: No such file or directory < 1363597378 902382 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls slist* < 1363597381 222992 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access slist*: No such file or directory \ /bin/ls: cannot access slist*: No such file or directory < 1363597528 713351 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-5d81f733.pool.mediaWays.net QUIT :Quit: hagb4rd < 1363597561 624875 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls slist* # may be more what you want < 1363597563 274039 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist.orig \ slist.rej < 1363597576 775240 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old leftover revertation things. < 1363597811 523023 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363597825 53040 :TodPunk!~Tod@166-70-93-209.ip.xmission.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1363598667 542898 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the book "Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman" and I also have the entire text of the book in my computer. Therefore it is sometimes useful for searching text in it, even though I like to have the book, too. < 1363598794 495734 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363598812 922572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A q-cumber is a quantum vegetable. < 1363598844 972919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other uses of such things is if one page got destroyed, to print out another copy. In this case it is difficult, but with the TeXbook, since the page correspond exactly, it can be done. < 1363598981 304056 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1363599199 392738 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1363599246 103297 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363599386 863837 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363599446 614096 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing Franchise Basketball, and on the free agent menu, it lists 1 to 14 on each page, but I pushed view 15, and it says some unusual things; their name is "f", they are 2079 feet and 6 inches tall, played 105 games without ever scoring any points, 15 years old, etc. < 1363599513 183359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When trying 16, I get "vin ringdale", age -60, weight -15351 pounds, and an error message about "GETCOACH 0003". < 1363599560 953883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :2079 feet 6 inches sounds quite high even for a basketballer. < 1363599577 204570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, I think so too. < 1363600866 765247 :ThatOtherPerson!d46b64cb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.107.100.203 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1363601207 123814 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have managed to win over one hundred games in a row. < 1363601361 256576 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the computer opponent is no good. < 1363601479 358070 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363602044 335039 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1363602073 645098 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1363602073 853527 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363603006 404577 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1363603043 85245 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1363604450 165962 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I have read somewhere that the "par" operator in linear logic means that you have both, but you are not allowed to use them together. Is this correct? <-- that really sounds more like "with" to me < 1363604475 218656 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is that you must use exactly one of them < 1363604673 155475 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1363606232 575928 :Lumpio-!~matti@89-166-34-164.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1363606269 486725 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1363606307 790417 :WeThePeople!~WeThePeop@unaffiliated/wethepeople QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363606380 447697 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363606599 715924 :impomatic2!~digital_w@211.25.113.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363606613 405787 :impomatic!~digital_w@123.177.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363607011 287252 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1363608590 633362 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363611144 657320 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363611164 247810 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1363612654 287956 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363612660 97249 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363612846 315202 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1363613628 527074 :impomatic2!~digital_w@211.25.113.87.dyn.plus.net PART :#esoteric < 1363613729 610941 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363614837 627778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363614877 320682 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363614935 946318 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SPAM SPAM SPAM SPAM < 1363614963 487768 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely spam < 1363614976 737530 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wiki spam? < 1363614977 308693 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1363614982 689886 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1363614983 267398 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 1d 13h 1m 26s ago: looks like we shouldn't link to sprunge from the wiki; your BF Joust interpreter has disappeared < 1363614990 630677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363615099 55351 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A Letter To Bunny Pattern is pretty awesome, incidentally, despite being spam < 1363615159 63187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam dealt with < 1363615699 183776 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1363615759 607514 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363615796 576406 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: when a spam page is deleted, is it deleted forever? I'm curous about this lagopedian pattern. < 1363615922 167602 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1363616150 577774 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony NICK :ThatOtherPerson < 1363616356 679648 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gnxirgovmxaerdnb QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1363616427 528402 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363616617 637614 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-keuwdbzuroumsoxo JOIN :#esoteric < 1363616715 368286 :impomatic2!~digital_w@211.25.113.87.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363616789 130585 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1363617045 147983 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo -e "#/bin/sh\necho \"Cool stuff\"" > coolstuff.sh < 1363617051 68500 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363617052 398511 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1363617054 572104 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :accesslog \ a.out \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ Category:Self-modifying \ coolstuff.sh \ dbg.out \ dkVb20VL \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ link \ paste \ prefs \ prefs.bf \ quines \ quotes \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ sgfoobar \ share \ slis < 1363617064 217961 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x coolstuff.sh < 1363617067 898866 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363617070 747989 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1363617073 818316 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :accesslog \ a.out \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ Category:Self-modifying \ coolstuff.sh \ dbg.out \ dkVb20VL \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ link \ paste \ prefs \ prefs.bf \ quines \ quotes \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ sgfoobar \ share \ slis < 1363617084 798036 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run coolstuff.sh < 1363617094 327776 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: coolstuff.sh: command not found < 1363617113 487897 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rm coolstuff.sh < 1363617118 428034 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363617159 478705 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1363617289 122257 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363617345 360989 :Mathnerd314!~quassel@palevsky-223-221.rh.uchicago.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363617437 829273 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls karma < 1363617439 570609 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma < 1363617484 777347 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's not actually deleted, just hidden < 1363617487 910611 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can undo the deletion if necessary < 1363617505 484343 :Mathnerd314!~quassel@palevsky-223-221.rh.uchicago.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363617818 488745 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363617857 179670 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363617879 8472 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1363617893 629106 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact, deleting a specific revision entails deleting the page and undeleting all but one of the revisions < 1363617926 673880 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not any more < 1363617937 184870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we used to have to do that, but there's a better UI on it now < 1363617943 437800 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, cool < 1363617950 232825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we can also keep the fact the revision existed public, but delete the contents < 1363618388 683115 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1363618435 148214 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also used to be that if anyone made edits to another section of the page after the one you wanted deleted, you had to remove those too < 1363618455 858036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's still the case, MediaWiki thinks in terms of revisions, not diffs < 1363618467 843048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you're trying to hide text, you have to hide every revision that includes that text < 1363618609 318193 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1363618853 298470 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1363620993 249967 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363621283 949938 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363621346 35855 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1363622205 459009 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1363622370 120953 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363622665 313439 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're the most welcoming channel on Freenode!? < 1363622694 849499 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wehlcome Taneb < 1363622697 319495 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wehlcome: not found < 1363622701 889519 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wehlcohme Taneb < 1363622705 609281 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tahnehb: Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) < 1363622716 700030 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes < 1363622968 402331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1000 < 1363622971 210581 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363622973 761883 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 990 < 1363622976 972837 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363622977 780319 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I don't like Feedly < 1363622979 310987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 980 < 1363622982 418428 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :980) also did you learn Haskell yet i think i've got most of it now what are these "type" things < 1363622988 18113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 981 < 1363622990 970152 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :981) it's raining in newcastle, therefore the elliotts are distinct. boily's Newcastle Theorem. < 1363622993 927606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 982 < 1363622996 90507 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :982) there's more evidence that scammers exist, than that, say, the average Nigerian exists < 1363622999 370961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 983 < 1363623002 639621 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :983) is it March 3? on some dates, yes < 1363623005 384128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 984 < 1363623010 719335 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :984) Two eggs costs less than one egg, but if you buy two eggs, you must eat both. Does linear logic do this? < 1363623011 509749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, okay, haven't had much time to use it. Just got home today. < 1363623015 660599 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, what is the issue with it? < 1363623026 869659 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just find it awkward to use < 1363623044 630583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can say I don't like the android client, though it is usable, but the desktop interface (in chrome at least) seems okay < 1363623048 857183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 985 < 1363623053 661894 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, google reader is better < 1363623054 379794 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :985) o.O OS/2 is what became NT? I didn't really know what OS/2 was < 1363623059 644442 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 986 < 1363623064 990454 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363623202 918582 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363623260 324963 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363623763 702006 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is quite a welcoming channel, I was welcomed to it before I even joined < 1363623799 828709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome ThatOtherPerson < 1363623806 79199 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363623814 690198 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :`names < 1363623821 791946 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: names: not found < 1363623864 181123 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :^list < 1363623864 629927 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1363623872 539744 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Liar < 1363623885 430287 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ and I was put in there after about half an hour :D < 1363623908 153027 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ^list a list of? < 1363623912 900026 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: who, me? or fungot < 1363623913 351025 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: now i'll go make a feathejs.git it for < 1363623917 673227 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea < 1363624042 768364 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: names listed by ^list < 1363624052 86687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of the lists exist purely to confuse people about what they're lists of < 1363624062 238092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: I will laugh so much if that is the actual reason < 1363624084 861904 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if only it were so simple. . . < 1363624090 942763 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if memory serves, ^list is the homestuck list < 1363624093 978104 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1363624106 390004 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's ^olist for oots < 1363624108 880129 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the others < 1363624110 378034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is one in fungot and the rest in HackEgo anyway? < 1363624111 850447 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so is precise garbage collection means it knows exactly what you want to discuss that on ideologies, there are < 1363624117 488972 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent question < 1363624128 671729 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because there's only one "rest", presumably < 1363624131 899305 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think that fungot has answered admirably < 1363624132 350688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego only has one list < 1363624132 650031 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: how do you say that 5kz is not correct, but not copyright encumberance)) instead < 1363624134 291079 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/*list < 1363624137 805412 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/bin/ls: cannot access bin/*list: No such file or directory \ /bin/ls: cannot access bin/*list: No such file or directory < 1363624138 99658 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Taneb is in ^list thrice < 1363624142 420926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls bin/list < 1363624146 460111 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :sneaky sneaky sneaky < 1363624147 739959 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/list < 1363624148 508040 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did someone delete `list sneakily? < 1363624148 717607 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo bin/*list* < 1363624151 341080 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/list bin/listen bin/lists < 1363624151 549944 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm how do globs work again < 1363624152 449026 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1363624157 519737 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/lists < 1363624158 719518 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :tail -n +2 $0 | xargs echo; exit 0 \ list < 1363624164 786452 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: they work fine but you forgot the `run < 1363624166 31486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was slist on HAckEgo which was the Homestuck list, but someone deleted it < 1363624167 310758 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm bin/lists < 1363624170 290983 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363624171 460549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh right < 1363624172 810721 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ^list was a backup < 1363624183 895740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what does `lists do? < 1363624191 129789 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exist < 1363624197 709851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to work it out < 1363624219 941439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I see, it's a really convluted way to write "echo list" < 1363624225 515819 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*convoluted < 1363624248 631490 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :theorem: mathematicians need more pronounceable names < 1363624252 254094 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363624266 352788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed so you can easily append to it < 1363624280 950764 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1363624285 222760 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1363624294 132125 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363624308 360691 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1363624335 649047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: would it be OK to take one mathematician, and give him or her a lot of pronounceable names? < 1363624395 201714 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363624428 560816 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1363624445 449551 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: proof: paul erwhat? < 1363624502 674244 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, now I've forgotten how to type a double acute < 1363624512 200109 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erdős < 1363624513 722871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1363624521 658774 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perfectly pronounceable if you know how to pronounce Hungarian < 1363624530 339097 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a very orthogonal and phonetic language < 1363624534 584651 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363624549 820314 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't know how! < 1363624553 62241 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought coppro was saying there was someone named paul erwhat and i was trying to figure out how thats hard to pronounce < 1363624557 829989 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a mathematician, not a linguist! < 1363624564 779801 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then i got lost in how good of a name erwhat is < 1363624594 599845 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: hungarian ő is basically like german ö but a bit longer < 1363624607 636975 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas hungarian ö is like german ö but a bit shorter < 1363624622 180922 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 QUIT :Client Quit < 1363624626 479655 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be helpful if I could pronounce german < 1363624674 98592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the closest sound in English is probably "er" or "ouer", but it's not exactly the same < 1363624705 321218 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363624765 40827 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly the correct solution is to get on a first name basis < 1363624925 769531 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363624936 451252 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhaeheuhuhaheheuaha < 1363624951 560517 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 TOPIC #esoteric :The most welcoming channel on Freenode. You have been warned. | #esoteric is supposed to be about esoteric programming languages, but is really a couple of dozen people being weird | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for money. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ | uhueueheuehueahuahuehuaha < 1363624954 150856 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lmt < 1363624957 920835 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huehuehuehuehueha < 1363624958 467230 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome < 1363624961 66690 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363624981 200613 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome huehahauheueha < 1363624985 93576 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :huehahauheueha: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363624992 96844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lmt < 1363624992 970001 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats up < 1363625000 290161 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :r u having a nice day < 1363625002 160551 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hue hue hue hue < 1363625007 930535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats nice < 1363625020 899954 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always good to hear. < 1363625024 692713 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know words that have letters other than h, u, e or a in them < 1363625030 819458 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu? < 1363625039 40344 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats tragic < 1363625048 410955 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he said "elliott". < 1363625052 591046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im sorry for you lmt < 1363625055 826195 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "`welcome" < 1363625057 750631 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1363625060 330432 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1363625063 474857 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :" " < 1363625064 219815 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait elliott isn't a "real word" is it < 1363625088 740352 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they just copied those from other people < 1363625089 580677 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and "?" < 1363625090 529835 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello lmt. < 1363625095 240662 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wehlcohme < 1363625096 53130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: ??? < 1363625097 941309 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wehlcohme to the ihntehrnahtiohnahl huhb fohr ehsohtehrihc prohgrahmmihng lahnguahge dehsihgn ahnd dehployhmehnt! Fohr mohre ihnfohrmahtiohn, chehck ouht ouhr wihki: http://ehsohlahngs.ohrg/wihki/Maihn_Pahge. (Fohr the ohthehr kihnd ohf ehsohtehrihca, try #ehsohtehrihc ohn ihrc.dahl.neht.) < 1363625099 821137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not allowed to say hello to people < 1363625102 350211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have scripts for that < 1363625113 652150 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello < 1363625113 950841 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello lmt < 1363625116 929977 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/hello: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/hello: cannot execute: Permission denied < 1363625117 830740 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/hello: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/hello: cannot execute: Permission denied < 1363625121 980569 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1363625124 530500 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hue < 1363625126 699244 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1363625127 150089 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :☺ < 1363625129 630390 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you lmt < 1363625130 69826 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/hello < 1363625135 460223 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo Hello < 1363625140 33271 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I am a script. < 1363625140 241490 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :deep < 1363625162 529969 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`chmod +x bin/hello < 1363625167 609746 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here into minecraft? < 1363625171 320228 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :chmod: missing operand after `+x bin/hello' \ Try `chmod --help' for more information. < 1363625178 768821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: that's not really what the channel's about < 1363625182 360660 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1363625183 399931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1363625184 237375 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: Sgeo runs the minecraft joint around here < 1363625187 133396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :redstone probably counts as an esolang < 1363625192 769471 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run chmod +x bin/hello < 1363625197 837081 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363625201 826989 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you *seen* the piston turing machine, it is amazing < 1363625206 344211 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello < 1363625207 128648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was the whole elliottcraft debacle < 1363625209 949821 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1363625214 410349 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony TOPIC #esoteric :The most welcoming channel on Freenode. You have been warned. | #esoteric is supposed to be about esoteric programming languages, but is really a couple of dozen people being weird | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for money. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1363625214 619115 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet < 1363625222 759917 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this turing machine https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1X21HQphy6I < 1363625240 36190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: it's a youtube link and I don't follow those at work (nor the rest of the time, very often, either) < 1363625248 49994 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a turing machine < 1363625250 514227 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with MOVABLE TAPE < 1363625260 972480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively infinite, until it hits floating point issues? < 1363625262 770702 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual tape that actually moves < 1363625275 419264 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's effectively finite because you need a piston once in a while to keep pushing it < 1363625275 627615 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's finite I'm not interested ;) < 1363625282 250482 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still it MOVES < 1363625297 911651 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever seen that before < 1363625301 186218 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a physically moving tape < 1363625332 132819 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose you could make it infinite by generating your world with a script < 1363625334 74926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: perhaps you need to play more Rubicon :) < 1363625335 761128 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: there was a physical TM that did that too < 1363625339 10 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some tape over to my left but it's too sticky to move < 1363625342 455388 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: legos? < 1363625347 531624 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: http://aturingmachine.com/ < 1363625354 335762 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1363625359 358950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that was finite due to the finite playfield, I made one with a moving cyclic tag queue < 1363625361 740290 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome < 1363625419 396727 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if you're making turing machines in physics simulators, moving the tape tends to be the easiest way < 1363625439 120766 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1363625441 571241 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in minecraft < 1363625459 863529 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw have we ever resolved that issue < 1363625478 9879 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of whether an infinite program that itself is generated by a finite algorithm qualifies for anything < 1363625496 60866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think if the program is repeating it's considered ok < 1363625504 631018 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to do that for e.g. even game of life to qualify < 1363625510 791437 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in an infinite minecraft world < 1363625514 10258 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with infinite tape in it < 1363625518 706736 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pistons to push it < 1363625529 551752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :with minecraft the implementation has limitations that stop it being infinite, but I guess an "idealised Minecraft" with a predefined world algorithm is TC < 1363625533 380314 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: that's the issue I'm arguing with the wolfram people over < 1363625536 250918 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also redstone doesn't work in unloaded chunks < 1363625544 590651 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah < 1363625547 520202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to specify that all chunks are simulated all of the time in idealised minecraft < 1363625548 540483 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: man have they still not published your thing < 1363625559 322950 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they gave you the money right? < 1363625560 55653 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conway's life works on a blank universe < 1363625561 565016 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's not that, they've been asking me for a revised version for years < 1363625563 262169 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :TC? < 1363625563 471233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: yes < 1363625574 220023 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can (probably) make tape using a universal constructor < 1363625581 266567 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: and I don't want to just make a few minor corrections to keep their reviewers happy without actually resolve the underlying issue < 1363625588 58073 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the underlying issue < 1363625590 540437 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :redstone breaks in horrible ways in unloaded chunks :( < 1363625612 76488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that I'm using an infinite nonrepeating initialization < 1363625619 801387 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not in general considered OK < 1363625625 18167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to explain why it's OK in this specific case < 1363625626 440596 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made an awesome music machine but once you walk away from it and come back, it's probably so broken that even a reset button won't fix it < 1363625637 422724 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need to make sure you turn it off every time you walk away from it < 1363625643 451109 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid redstone < 1363625647 370322 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought your paper covered that already < 1363625664 802166 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can generate the pattern subTCly or whatever < 1363625669 11107 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imo it should be okay if it's generated by a finite algorithm < 1363625670 64419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it isn't actually OK, is it? < 1363625679 523037 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well I think it is or can be modified to be < 1363625683 247869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but defining that is hard < 1363625685 251490 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and if it can be generated on demand < 1363625685 980130 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well you can have two non-conventionally-TC machines that you can hook up to make a TC system, I believe < 1363625693 341121 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of generating it all at once < 1363625695 566378 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah but that's a really really informal argument < 1363625707 257888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the really informal argument is "you can look at how the simulation works and it obviously isn't cheating" < 1363625712 124223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mathematicians don't like that one for some reason < 1363625720 530615 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wankers < 1363625726 730279 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as they give you money, who cares what they like < 1363625729 353283 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow this http://aturingmachine.com/ thing is extremely cute < 1363625729 797077 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I'm not sure; cpressey tried to do that and failed < 1363625732 450693 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what would a formal argument be because at some point it just seems like who cares < 1363625733 630439 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wolfram sucks < 1363625745 693541 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not sure, why do you think I haven't submitted the revised paper? < 1363625751 370901 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1363625799 608266 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway wolfram pretty much discouraged me from working on it < 1363625802 821269 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing strict boundaries between this-is-the-TC-system and this-is-the-background seems i dunno unworkable < 1363625816 660636 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my understanding that wolfram is a megawanker < 1363625819 870544 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363625820 989640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when he asked me to go meet him in cambridge, and gave me a huge sheaf full of corrections they wanted, and he just basically assumed that there were no mathematical issues without reading it at all < 1363625828 520095 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also left to eat lunch without offering me any < 1363625832 774991 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I'd thought to eat before the meeting < 1363625838 91458 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1363625855 181819 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you got to meet.. the great stephen wolfram < 1363625868 265950 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's at least one fallacious proof in ANKOS because it makes a similar incorrect assumption (that the details don't matter) < 1363625870 485165 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I managed to fix that one < 1363625909 147176 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :his holiness stephen wolfram" < 1363625915 370710 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stephen wolfram for pope < 1363625928 450767 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new kind of idk something < 1363625932 44540 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :pope for stephen wolfram (you guys know stephen wolfram is a position not a person right) < 1363625932 980655 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :religion < 1363625935 210875 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :papacy < 1363625939 731372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: a new kind of theology?? < 1363625958 511302 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right didn't we decide on a whatever-you-call-that-thing-you-do-with-Muhammad-peace-be-upon-him foir wolfram < 1363625964 490684 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stephen wolfram fuck that guy or suchlike < 1363625972 251333 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to date there have been 34 stephen wolframs < 1363625982 813611 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A new kind of stephen < 1363625984 190131 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that position? < 1363625986 969963 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that fuck < 1363625992 284357 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, if people are interested in this, http://esolangs.org/wiki/1cnis is a start < 1363625993 720943 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all get expert makeovers to make them look like the previous one < 1363626005 392272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far all of them have died in office < 1363626013 350640 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott are you writing ankos fanfiction < 1363626018 530417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363626019 929941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :absolutely < 1363626021 424289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to prove that a legal initialization pattern for the 2,3 machine can be generated by 1cnis < 1363626025 885842 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so far I haven't even managed that < 1363626030 966349 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear fanfiction has a nasty tendency to be erotic < 1363626037 738198 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just rumors < 1363626047 560693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ankos fanfiction can only have stephen wolfram in it i think < 1363626049 837715 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to collaborate with #esoteric on this, at least; if you lot think it's important, it's important to me < 1363626052 993570 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd have to be necrophilia < 1363626058 968425 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it can have other people whose job is to be irrelevant < 1363626062 630729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm just not sure we can go down that route < 1363626091 820141 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure someone would be into it < 1363626094 361615 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and now", stephen murmured into my ear as I unbuttoned his shirt, "we shall play... the game of life" < 1363626148 374509 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Today's rule is rule 110" < 1363626157 637543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think wolfram probably hates gol because it isn't one of his < 1363626162 860248 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 34 automaton < 1363626166 250510 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make some really stupid rule 34 joke here but < 1363626169 769090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right there we go < 1363626170 860919 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1363626175 920795 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ban elliott < 1363626176 211434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys I hate myself and I hate everyone else < 1363626178 640108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363626184 801250 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to, ais523, but unfortunately i'm incompetent < 1363626190 699430 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the wolfram is going on in this channel... < 1363626203 23455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: reading scrollback may or may not help < 1363626208 229737 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ankos fanfiction" is literally just a setup for that joke < 1363626216 440668 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: we're trying to recover lmt's vowels < 1363626222 118908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: what you can do is link to the xkcd comic where he calls rule 34 on wolframs' rule 34 < 1363626229 105086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and annoy everyone at once < 1363626235 411139 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ais523 I see a fundamental problem with that plan < 1363626239 511413 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :lmt > 1363626239 555824 NAMES :#esoteric < 1363626240 971146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's that I'd never be able to sleep at night again < 1363626245 191054 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 MODE #esoteric -b :dbelange*!*@* > 1363626245 213251 NAMES :#esoteric < 1363626248 490808 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 MODE #esoteric -o :lmt > 1363626248 511798 NAMES :#esoteric < 1363626250 571059 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is lmt banning elliott < 1363626251 621028 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1363626253 170845 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1363626259 111696 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1363626259 823360 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell is dbelange < 1363626261 650523 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1363626265 950970 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some guy < 1363626270 792251 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome dbelange < 1363626273 711550 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbelange: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363626282 554532 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if my public service is any indication you can't do that anyway! < 1363626328 173631 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dbelange: do you speak french, by chance? < 1363626350 453957 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is your idea of esoteric < 1363626360 670450 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*canned laughter* < 1363626368 440696 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pickled laughter* < 1363626377 920076 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh this reminds me i have a French Question i can't find the answer to < 1363626398 33950 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? go ahead, maybe I'll answer. maybe I'll even answer correctly! < 1363626414 83222 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll answer but it sure as heck won't be correct < 1363626415 846400 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why's it "par consquent", but "en consquence" < 1363626437 250171 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"consquent" is an adjective, isn't it... how does "par" + adjective even work < 1363626440 91392 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't trust boily he's from qùébëč < 1363626445 641649 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i could not get compose to put an accent over that q < 1363626450 841252 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-242.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the background pattern an automatic sequence? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_sequence < 1363626487 891568 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I modified my layout the other day to be able to get about every possible accent. nothing works on q, to my knowledge :( < 1363626493 157635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp__: I don't know, but that looks like a pretty promising link < 1363626513 350371 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-242.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should qualify it as sufficiently simple < 1363626521 741101 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :q̄ < 1363626523 996790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: do none of the combining characters render properly? < 1363626527 782990 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thx < 1363626532 12235 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_you_type_an_accented_q < 1363626534 360275 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a macron, are you a wizard < 1363626558 299772 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: combining chars work properly, but there ain't no precomposed q with nothing that I know of. < 1363626560 887235 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: i answered it < 1363626561 544919 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I've been using COMBINING MACRON a lot recently, in quickly typed up notes in gedit < 1363626590 190869 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363626593 85776 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you type a spanish Q? < 1363626598 983534 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯q < 1363626600 686795 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1363626600 942264 :asiekierka!~asie@fluttershy.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a spanish Q" < 1363626602 881019 :asiekierka!~asie@fluttershy.pl PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1363626606 741872 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :qué < 1363626618 24241 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q is Q in Spanish. < 1363626618 287831 :md_5!~md_5@mcdevs/trusted/md-5 QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in < 1363626622 421848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: combining character goes after the character it combines on < 1363626629 617549 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1363626632 900488 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :q¯ < 1363626634 712334 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is hard < 1363626636 760482 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1363626654 761937 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi i'm broly < 1363626656 631407 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363626659 567752 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not esoteric but i am eccentric < 1363626659 778489 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that like boily < 1363626661 767391 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`hello < 1363626663 861100 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1363626665 203810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Broly < 1363626667 141050 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broly: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363626679 76024 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you mention dal net in front of an efnetter < 1363626681 214492 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I have no idea about the «conséquent/conséquence» thing. < 1363626686 431266 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PART :#esoteric < 1363626693 80850 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :q̄. ok. < 1363626693 338231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tromp__: oh, looking at the substitution point of view, I don't think that's enough power < 1363626693 550231 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1363626697 280782 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhmmm < 1363626697 612413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :really good < 1363626700 961081 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is efnet < 1363626702 588853 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a mystery < 1363626707 851955 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is dal < 1363626708 136677 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: a major IRC server < 1363626708 434014 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: have you never heard of efnet < 1363626711 241480 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: have you never heard of dal < 1363626711 789768 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's rivals with dalnet < 1363626718 424204 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is heard < 1363626719 537719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Broly wouldn't have had that reaction < 1363626729 334489 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rivals. irc rivals? is that a thing < 1363626734 24625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm reminded of that bash.org oneliner, "what the fuck is wtf" < 1363626737 146569 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363626737 365850 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time ive been on efnet and another time ive been on dal but i didnt actually DO anything there < 1363626742 339337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: and it's probably a thing < 1363626748 41206 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck dalnet < 1363626752 103629 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :color script bitch ass nagas < 1363626757 263597 :tromp__!~tromp@rtc35-242.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even proving that it's not automatic would be a publishable result < 1363626757 643063 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nagas"? < 1363626759 871513 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nagas < 1363626762 810864 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass nagas < 1363626763 19810 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the snake things? < 1363626767 675363 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear dal is full of crepes < 1363626768 401298 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1363626768 617606 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep the serpents from wow < 1363626769 552942 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :creeps < 1363626772 883594 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crepes! < 1363626773 623255 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ass-nagas < 1363626774 62146 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: theyre snake people < 1363626777 890379 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not from wow, they're from mythology :( < 1363626778 441415 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops i stoly monqy's joke < 1363626779 492721 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dalnet is probably pedo central and color scripts aplenty < 1363626781 341422 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want it back monqy < 1363626781 738709 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah I know, from NetHack and the like < 1363626789 391249 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: nah it's fine it's pretty bad < 1363626793 943866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy stole monqy's joke from xkcd :-/ < 1363626796 779973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think freenode has any major enemies < 1363626797 432159 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember when i was 11 years old i pretended i was some guy from 5ive and would get nudies from random hoes on teenchat < 1363626798 889685 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times < 1363626808 37707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like that side of IRC < 1363626820 532987 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sensible discussions about programming and the like are so much more interesting < 1363626831 901500 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit patrol roll out!!! < 1363626836 512114 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :crush those 9gag kids < 1363626837 424227 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many more intelligible topics of conversation < 1363626846 377260 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they take effort < 1363626847 350459 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not interested in sick porn, ais? prude < 1363626862 638358 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is sick porn < 1363626863 400765 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1363626868 122349 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :porn of terminally ill people < 1363626868 431628 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363626869 971699 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363626870 186689 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am pretty sure every little 11 year old wanted nudies of hot chicks < 1363626874 871042 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there are so many fetishes in existence, that I doubt there's anyone who's interested in /all/ porn < 1363626880 603972 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you weirdos < 1363626886 865789 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not pedo porn, that's gross < 1363626894 426877 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Broly: who are you. you are not me. < 1363626899 16177 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1363626904 489298 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yes he is < 1363626909 809778 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not a boily < 1363626911 331230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: it's ok, he has a unique two letter prefix. < 1363626912 137532 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gross < 1363626919 220941 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that channel that kicks everyone from the channel simultaneously and sets it to invite only, then invites you? < 1363626920 731861 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like a name for a big pet boil someone would keep < 1363626943 848427 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat is going on here < 1363626950 285400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: chanserv clear < 1363626952 629623 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :illegal pornography < 1363626956 512322 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some efnetter caught wind of something something dalnet < 1363626958 624610 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1363626961 44444 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: I think we've been invaded < 1363626962 431310 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /msg chanserv clear users #channel < 1363626962 714128 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1363626963 993157 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :god knows, thatotherperson < 1363626964 216015 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it snowballed < 1363626966 687169 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he suggested i check out dalnet < 1363626966 906656 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: right < 1363626968 568162 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was like wtf < 1363626983 650019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's not as dramatic as it used to be < 1363626989 165785 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :robots aren't people broly < 1363627003 911655 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked like an automated msg < 1363627005 584619 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363627009 94445 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't change the fact that it has dalnet in it < 1363627028 981115 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one time i connected to efnet and then quit i think the motd had a unicorn in it? that sounds about right. < 1363627030 386814 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dalnet doesn't deserve to be in any pre-set message < 1363627030 611808 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Broly < 1363627033 285611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WELCOME Broly < 1363627034 4242 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06Broly: Welcome to the07 international hub fo14r esot06eric prog08r10amming l04an09guag14e 13des10ign a11nd06 deployment!07 Fo11r more05 inf07ormatio12n, che13ck o05ut our w12i05ki: http://esol09angs.org/w05iki/Main_Page05. (For the other kind07 of esote09r08ica, try #14esot14eric on i08rc.da04l.net.) < 1363627036 124847 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :BROLY: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.) < 1363627041 727323 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :o wow < 1363627044 192237 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dalnet indeed < 1363627045 951668 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, how did the color code get into `relcome? < 1363627046 443786 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tally ho gents < 1363627051 189318 :Broly!ylorb@gateway/shell/xzibition.com/x-guyezznbalojlwpu PART :#esoteric < 1363627053 445225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: very carefully < 1363627055 539510 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye broly < 1363627059 241184 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good job, elliott. gjelliott. < 1363627061 405808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise the channel was colors-allowed < 1363627078 219624 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat bin/relcome < 1363627079 6202 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :7,4you could +c if you dislike it i guess. < 1363627080 115876 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | colorize < 1363627081 118895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i actually apologised to him in /msg first time he quit because i had the feeling there were new levels of stupidity to reach that we deserved to see < 1363627094 760169 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | hyphenate.fi | colorize < 1363627095 333854 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott ~_~ < 1363627097 855424 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​10Wel-co-me10 to th12e in-ter-na02-ti-o-nal hub 03for e-so-12te-ric prog-ram-mi11ng la03n-gu-a-ge de-sign and 03dep-14lo-y-me11nt! For mo-re in-for-ma-ti-on, 11che10ck out our wi-ki: ht06tp://e-so-l03angs.org/08wi-12ki/Mai10n_Pa-ge10. (For the ot-her kind03 of03 e-so-te-ri-ca, try #e-so-te-ric05 o03n irc.dal.net.14) < 1363627102 217312 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it was a long hard battle to get -c here don't undo our progress < 1363627109 890029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, the command I was thinking of was /cs recover < 1363627115 423521 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | uuu | hyphenate.fi | colorize < 1363627117 664115 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, are freenode channels +c by default? < 1363627118 566377 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13Uuuuuuu uu uu10u uu06uuuuuuuuuuu09 uuu14 uuu u13uu10uuuuu13 uu14uuuuuuuuu04 uuuuuu04uu uuuuuu uuu uuu05uu02uuuuu! Uuu uuuu uuuuuuuu12uuu, 05uuuuu uuu02 uuu uuuu: uu07u14u:/04/uuuuuuuu.uuu/uu14u14u/Uuuu_Uuuu. (Uuu 14uuu uu06uuu uuuu12 uu uuuuu10uuuu, uuu08 #uuuuuuuu uu 02uuu03.uu06u.07uuu.07) < 1363627124 483884 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that yes < 1363627139 804726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"More precisely, everyone will be deopped, limit and clear will be cleared, all bans matching you are removed, a ban exception matching you is added (in case of bans Atheme can't see), the channel is set invite-only and moderated and you are invited." < 1363627143 259813 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place is no fun, let's move to dal, they know how to party < 1363627144 686437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty dramatic < 1363627156 815094 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the final solution of irc moderation < 1363627157 430793 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds like fun, let's try it out < 1363627167 79875 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | hyphenate | uuu | sed 's/dal/efnet/' | rainwords < 1363627170 290272 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: hyphenate: command not found < 1363627175 225168 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run welcome | hyphenate.fi | uuu | sed 's/dal/efnet/' | rainwords < 1363627178 741213 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​4Uuu-uu-uu 7uu 8uuu 9uu-uuu-uu-uu-u-uuu 2uuu 13uuu 6u-uu-uu-uuu 4uuuu-uuu-uuuu 7uuu-uu-u-uu 8uu-uuuu 9uuu 2uuu-uu-u-uuuu! 13Uuu 6uu-uu 4uu-uuu-uu-uu-uu, 7uuuuu 8uuu 9uuu 2uu-uu: 13uuuu://u-uu-uuuuu.uuu/uu-uu/Uuuu_Uu-uu. 6(Uuu 4uuu 7uu-uuu 8uuuu 9uu 2u-uu-uu-uu-uu, 13uuu 6#u-uu-uu-uuu 4uu 7uuu.uuu.uuu.) < 1363627185 629516 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1363627199 102443 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run cat `which rainwords` < 1363627200 473774 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/usr/bin/python \ import random; w=[l.split() for l in open("/dev/stdin").read().split("\n")]; r=[4,7,8,9,2,13,6]; print "\n".join((lambda s: " ".join(chr(3) + str(r[(i+s)%len(r)]) + l[i] for i in range(len(l))))(random.randrange(0, len(r))) for l in w) < 1363627203 782149 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run grep   bin/* < 1363627206 411251 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary file bin/fortune matches \ Binary file bin/tclkit matches < 1363627217 957810 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does rainwords do?????????????????????????????? < 1363627222 605528 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo hello tset | rainwords < 1363627224 76968 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​8hello 9tset < 1363627224 986794 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :coloris per-word < 1363627229 886168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. why rain < 1363627230 103939 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'imo obvisoe" < 1363627233 911727 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like rainbow < 1363627246 626011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a predefined cycle of. < 1363627247 602868 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear uk has a lot of rain dont you see those things < 1363627249 993305 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i guess rainbows are technically made of rain < 1363627255 180652 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rainwords is a directory, cannot continue < 1363627263 732069 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run rainwords "rainbow" [1] < 1363627337 740461 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rainwords \ 8 \ 8 \ 9Rainbow 2- 13Wikipedia, 6the 4free 7encyclopedia \ 4 \ 2 \ 13 #esoteric is supposed to be about esoteric programming languages, but is really a couple of dozen people being weird | Newsflash: fungot has been writing spam for money. | Logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1363627588 362703 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(today is worse than average in terms of random line quality, so `pastlog will be marginally better than `log) < 1363627599 408935 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shuf: memory exhausted < 1363627608 732976 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1363627610 860501 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1363627612 388137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log < 1363627615 268465 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003-09-10.txt:07:59:59: -!- clog has quit (ended). < 1363627618 997390 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1363627627 257331 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good log < 1363627630 210172 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1363627632 988502 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor clog < 1363627639 883718 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't have optbot, but it's easy to write it < 1363627641 289322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll act as an obituary for clog, except that it's still here < 1363627643 844907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: indeed < 1363627646 186476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log < 1363627646 407484 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I usually do when I want optbot back < 1363627649 123829 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-06.txt:03:34:35: it's so awesome, you could say "awesome is cise", and not be wrong. < 1363627659 839934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's better < 1363627661 602248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :last time I revived optbot a few people whineda bout it existing though < 1363627665 196333 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even vaguely ontopic < 1363627667 335148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fsvo whine) < 1363627673 131602 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: insufficiently many for it to be an official bot? < 1363627679 815982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey quick someone invent a new bf joust strategy < 1363627688 417708 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr knowing what optbot was but then i forgot < 1363627699 628506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well a certain few people were vocal about their dislike of its valuable topic-changing service < 1363627708 512165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whereby vocal means, one of them created a bot specifically to revert optbot's topic-changes < 1363627714 6002 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they all got banned < 1363627719 870781 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :antioptbot was hilarious < 1363627723 434959 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :n.b. this is really stupid < 1363627736 586215 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :antioptbot sounds cute < 1363627740 931775 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes, but it didn’t have hyphenate.fi in the middle. < 1363627749 386920 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's .fi < 1363627757 552906 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :TLD for finland < 1363627764 94281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in this case, more likely language code for finnish < 1363627775 831158 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $LANG < 1363627778 159861 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_NZ.UTF-8 < 1363627789 401009 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hypenate.fi/ should be a web interface to hyphenate.fi < 1363627799 847660 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it actually? NXDOMAIN? < 1363627803 833795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's misspelld < 1363627804 799471 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet hyphenate.fi a netcat interface, etc. < 1363627811 382856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er *h < 1363627818 176885 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hyphenate.fi appears to not exist < 1363627825 160395 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: get on it < 1363627826 145785 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo runs on New Zealand English? < 1363627832 26051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do we need a web service for everything anyway? < 1363627841 453548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather have a local executable for hyphenating Finnish, than a webservice < 1363627856 836179 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always knew finnish was an esoteric language < 1363627860 806184 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then how will you hyphenate finnish on your smartphone < 1363627861 411924 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: my theory is that it runs on en_NZ specifically to cause people to ask why it runs on en_NZ < 1363627871 682609 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough < 1363627875 68375 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: That would cost moneys. :-( < 1363627880 692069 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not en_SA? < 1363627887 128421 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA? < 1363627889 623055 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :en_FI < 1363627899 303153 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't think we have any new zealanders here < 1363627911 754354 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi_VITTU < 1363627914 854618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas there is one former-regular who was south african < 1363627925 168635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because people complained when I set it to zh_TW" is what Gregor last answered when it was asked. < 1363627926 521637 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363627950 478007 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they would < 1363627954 418320 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a political statement < 1363627957 378421 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -e '1,/mw-content-text/ d' -e 's/<[^>]*>//g' )*8(>[-])*21 < 1363628331 617228 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bfjoust: not found < 1363628334 885475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust does_this_work_yet (>)*8(>[-])*21 < 1363628338 278360 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong bot < 1363628348 835591 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_does_this_work_yet: 15.9 < 1363628352 606876 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1363628369 282910 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, Codu is once again running near its load limit, though I don't precisely know why *sigh* < 1363628374 104455 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust does_this_work_yet (>)*8(>[>(>[-])*21])*21 < 1363628377 436260 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_does_this_work_yet: 9.9 < 1363628381 748710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust does_this_work_yet (>)*8(>[(>[-])*21])*21 < 1363628385 332725 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_does_this_work_yet: 7.1 < 1363628391 580436 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust does_this_work_yet (>)*8(>[(>>>+++++[-])*21])*21 < 1363628395 121621 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_does_this_work_yet: 2.9 < 1363628398 624459 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1363628402 829194 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it doesn't work yet < 1363628457 241997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How many eyes have you got? < 1363628457 464676 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ummm......what were we talking about again? :) < 1363628466 72810 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Eyes. Have you got them? < 1363628466 305997 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in implementations with fast call/ cc actually does have a point < 1363628510 197561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of Subtle Cough < 1363628522 615527 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC that only had three essentially different programs, didn't it? < 1363628602 985077 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1363628624 855477 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still leading the "ends a line with ? and a space" statistics: http://sprunge.us/Cfgg < 1363628672 884515 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Man, I'm at 3? When the hell did I ever boff up and do that... < 1363628682 58595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I'm not even on the list < 1363628691 568506 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you mean "? ", not " ?"? < 1363628709 789119 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1363628710 92696 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma has different floors ! < 1363628740 449858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have a 1 in my logs, if one looks at the full list: http://sprunge.us/eGcV < 1363628743 541808 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the game never actually says that) < 1363628759 79683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log .*\?\ $ < 1363628768 211434 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363628774 875100 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i have one???how did that happen < 1363628782 815911 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not happen more < 1363628786 536338 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-12.txt:12:21:33: cpressey: ever consider a timecube esolang? < 1363628799 539993 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I was quoting someone else, that doesn't count < 1363628814 649372 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log .*\?\ $ < 1363628821 811982 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-12-14.txt:23:05:57: % of fungot quotes present in qdb actually verbatim??? < 1363628827 699001 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1363628840 346586 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: "??? ", nice < 1363628860 434920 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the syntax for log < 1363628873 808993 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't one < 1363628885 579256 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it doesn't actually exist. HackEgo is just a very helpful person < 1363628890 695592 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then i'll just copy it without understanding anything < 1363628894 459886 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log .*\?\ $ < 1363628901 111631 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1363628904 449178 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP < 1363628917 161696 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good implicit denial of chomskyism elliott < 1363628921 12735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: it's PCRE < 1363628941 202012 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pitifully Crappy Regular Expressions < 1363628957 775236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not actually PCRE < 1363628966 897391 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1363628972 524036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it acts like a subset, at least < 1363628974 865270 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl incompatible irregular expressions < 1363628976 941587 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pcregrep < 1363628980 862724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1363628996 543029 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, it isn't PCRE, but it's accepted every PCRE-compatible expression I've tried to feed to it < 1363629001 853666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly I haven't tried very many < 1363629009 313798 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl compatible regular expression compatible < 1363629038 963527 :Mathnerd314!~quassel@palevsky-223-221.rh.uchicago.edu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363629079 906285 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Perl Compatible Regular Expression Compatible Expression < 1363629095 279396 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`log ^(.{2,}{2,}$(*COMMIT)(*FAIL)|.) < 1363629095 640851 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1363629096 235702 :Mathnerd314!~quassel@palevsky-223-221.rh.uchicago.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363629097 793080 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep: nothing to repeat < 1363629103 844313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, not PCRE < 1363629117 807438 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/log < 1363629118 78474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that expression, if I've translated it correctly from Prolog, should match lines with a prime number of characters < 1363629119 764317 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric \ if [ "$1" ]; then \ grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1 \ else \ file=$(shuf -en 1 ????-??-??.txt) \ echo "$file:$(shuf -n 1 $file)" \ fi < 1363629120 384385 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :very inefficiently < 1363629130 222809 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :library that determines if a given library has perl-compatible regexes < 1363629132 577625 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well say perl compatible regular expression compatible regular expression < 1363629152 22321 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thing" < 1363629154 423741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: drop-in replacement for that library < 1363629162 397167 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is commit, oh man < 1363629200 169327 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :backtracking verbs. backtracking verbs < 1363629201 352404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's like an indirect cut in Prolog, makes the entire expression fail if you backtrack into it < 1363629246 49219 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man at least snobol didn't pretend its matching was regular < 1363629255 147486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for smaller cuts, you have (*SKIP) that causes the expression to only be able to match in a different place, and (*PRUNE) that works exactly like a prolog cut < 1363629282 135996 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, the only reason Perl calls them regexes nowadays is that it has to call them /something/ < 1363629289 633976 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: do Perl regexen count as an esolang? < 1363629292 475059 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1363629300 870791 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you call them "regexen" then yes. < 1363629310 293085 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that `funny page, about perl isnt there. heh heh. < 1363629311 975580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name determines whether they're an esolang? < 1363629316 503625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: perl as a whole isn't < 1363629321 824293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some embedded parts of it feel like it < 1363629324 850001 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1363629329 415913 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like compile-time C++ is often considered an esolang < 1363629342 63412 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you've seen that regex debugger that had a function that wasn't actually a function but instead looked through the file it was compiled in to find its call site and then analyzed the regex it was passed, right < 1363629343 990753 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monqy: do you mean the esowiki page about perl. I like that one because of oerjan's interpretation < 1363629345 235523 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl um wiki begs to differ < 1363629346 278009 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"pretty esoteric" < 1363629346 531190 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1363629351 400724 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes < 1363629352 669631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog cut is (*THEN) < 1363629372 263098 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that's beautiful < 1363629397 614900 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: compile time C++ as in metatemplate programming and the likes? < 1363629400 992860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: yeah < 1363629405 853250 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess drawing the line between 'esolang' and 'language well suited to esoteric programming' is like drawing the line between 'functional language' and whatever < 1363629409 325444 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, what would happen if i made a page for C using that example from unix-hater < 1363629421 378038 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional langauge with chinese characteristics < 1363629423 750858 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd start a horrible trend of mocking languages based on syntax probably < 1363629435 207593 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I guess, although it is used in real code (especially libraries) too < 1363629450 226869 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: Boost doesn't count, it's probably the world's finest example of serious esoprogramming < 1363629456 590323 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think i need to adopt that idiom < 1363629457 906941 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: loki? < 1363629478 119455 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that boost parser thing, specifically, is the world's finest example of serious esoprogramming < 1363629478 821011 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363629484 43565 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's probably a lot more libraries besides boost and loki < 1363629485 823178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: all sorts of parts of Boost are wonderful < 1363629492 675367 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but especially the parser < 1363629492 897082 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably read its source some day < 1363629502 558909 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the one, the one that makes a parser out of templates < 1363629506 134953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :comp.lang.c particularly likes the preprocessor library < 1363629506 982230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two kilobyte symbol names etc < 1363629507 216594 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost.spirit? < 1363629510 785134 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that one < 1363629512 472873 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363629512 771065 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :partly because that's the only part they're allowed to talk about < 1363629523 300670 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people tend to judge Boost as a single entity when really it's a huge collection of unrelated libraries by different people < 1363629529 816880 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of which are quite simple and sane and essential < 1363629530 117599 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, unless you actually plan on using it (and if you don't have a few hours time to wait until compilation is done) < 1363629536 850638 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real cool thing is < 1363629540 951488 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which is why i'd rather pick out spirit. < 1363629546 193037 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people actually wrote compile-time compilers < 1363629559 938086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yes but the insane parts are more fun to talk about < 1363629602 156689 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say "why would you make a compile-time compiler anyway" < 1363629605 274466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then realised I could think of reasons < 1363629608 247873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not /good/ reasons, but… < 1363629628 255036 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i look compile time compilers something something lisp something < 1363629643 441128 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do compilers count as compile time compilers < 1363629644 942055 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one reason would be "because you can" < 1363629645 941843 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1363629660 471639 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one would be "because it looks cool" < 1363629669 724694 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess JITs and other runtime-accessible compilers don't < 1363629697 722602 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a compile-time compiler? < 1363629720 303766 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a compiler that compiles when it does < 1363629722 401630 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it is a compiler that compiles its input during compile-time < 1363629739 233536 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ThatOtherPerson: my interpretation was "something written in language X, that contains code in language Y, which when compiled compiles language Y into language X and feeds it to the compiler it's being compiled with" < 1363629742 372287 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkay < 1363629775 662694 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: seems pretty usual to me. constant regexes for example < 1363629782 930560 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :regexepodes? < 1363629805 253096 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :regices < 1363629833 573578 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should write a compile-time compiler for C++ in C++. < 1363629845 564596 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: indeed, that's what I meant by saying I could think of reasons < 1363629851 650574 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but compiling separately seems saner < 1363629859 940426 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, it could be said that that's very easy < 1363629863 581669 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling separately meaning what < 1363629877 564164 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a seperate regex->target to go with language->target? < 1363629907 727890 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes < 1363629925 112609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly adding the regex→target into the language→target compiler < 1363629932 991234 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you compile to language you could use it anywhere language works, though < 1363629979 258311 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363630014 613921 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually who does anyone still /run/ programs written in C++ these days? < 1363630026 143218 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that supposed to be "why"? < 1363630031 763027 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363630034 463930 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's XChat written in? What are web browsers written in? < 1363630046 172043 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because programs written in C++ are super common and work, i imagine < 1363630048 456466 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's KDE and various KDE programs written in? < 1363630067 923866 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo work, but that goes for about everything. < 1363630072 944379 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Biki: why not have the compiler run it? < 1363630076 241862 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: regardless of what OS you're using, you're likely to be using a program written in C++ at the moment < 1363630076 583313 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: it's going to be a whole lot faster than anything written in Python or Ruby < 1363630079 543120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, I very much doubt your computer is completely devoid of machine code that was compiled from C++ < 1363630081 724718 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1363630084 8673 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the chances are lowest on OS X, out of the widely used OSes) < 1363630087 854813 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: most windows machines don't have C++ compilers, i don't think < 1363630101 711680 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: indeed, but most windows programs use precompiled executables < 1363630116 372744 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on OS X iirc the driver framework in the kernel uses C++ < 1363630120 795735 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having a C++ compiler is like < 1363630123 96855 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363630123 415408 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry, kmc. we have to establish our programming cred by disparaging languages we know not much about with no reference to specific implementations. it's a fact of life < 1363630130 724340 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everything in OS X is written in "Objective C++" < 1363630135 964904 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a superset of C++ < 1363630139 845745 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: don't worry, C++ is a language you're allowed to dislike < 1363630145 611182 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: transparent trolling attempt? < 1363630149 880453 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1363630151 399476 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt, objective C afaik < 1363630151 842577 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363630152 279687 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: like "we added objects to C++" < 1363630152 561151 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact < 1363630158 634077 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the GUI < 1363630158 917599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C++ is a real thing < 1363630159 286122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :not objective C++ < 1363630163 422727 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of a monstrosity < 1363630163 422926 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually objective C++ actually exists, but objective C is more common) < 1363630166 41607 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1363630166 375506 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1363630173 203419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think gcc can compile it < 1363630175 585999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1363630177 770940 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :objective C++ is extremely common and commonly used by apple < 1363630178 532498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, true, but it isn't used much on OS X afaik < 1363630186 364141 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has the ObjC object model and the C++ object model living together in sin < 1363630193 772155 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about Subjective C? Subjects instead of objects? < 1363630194 911343 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-93.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1363630195 119285 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1363630201 42605 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: :-) < 1363630205 155247 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's a great idea < 1363630207 481446 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1363630208 241792 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: if you google you can find a semi-funny parody about Objectivist C < 1363630210 312535 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :puns about "subjective" and "objectivism" hurt man < 1363630211 522266 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :subject-oriented programming < 1363630211 730997 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hurt < 1363630218 322214 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a great idea < 1363630219 663240 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :If an object model lies with another object model as it does with a paradigm, it shall be stoned to death. < 1363630232 183892 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :objective c++ is pretty bad < 1363630237 463525 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, -_- < 1363630238 902862 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it allows you to use c++ libraries < 1363630247 412527 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i can't imagine C++ objects and objc objects being very uh, workable together, at all < 1363630250 608045 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything is written in c++, so < 1363630256 394306 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… most C++ libraries are for games programming < 1363630260 313695 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it already exists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subject-oriented_programming < 1363630261 444043 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: What, you don't like Bible jokes? X-D < 1363630266 652784 :monqy!~help@pool-98-108-214-230.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh ooh i have another pun how about a langauge called.......c(incomprehensible squiggles) < 1363630274 313958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody pointed out that ObjC and C++ are a good demonstration of why syntax isn't everything... C++ is closer to C in syntax but is a beast of a language, 20 times more complicated than C < 1363630279 475546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact about Windows: the vast majority of native-code Windows programs are written in C++, but the system libraries they link against are entirely in C < 1363630288 332136 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: wait, is this real or did someone just hack wikipedia < 1363630288 751342 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in terms of ABI < 1363630288 960206 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ObjC has syntax that looks weird to a C programmer but is really a pretty modest extension to the language < 1363630296 243330 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, I don't think that was the issue in this case. It was just cringe-worthy... < 1363630297 32612 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: they are just as workable as any kind of incompatible types < 1363630318 865533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: anyone (unless they don't have internet access or have been blocked) can create a page on Wikipedia, no hacking required < 1363630327 536973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or do have internet access but can't use a computer for some reason) < 1363630341 890590 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or unless they have sufficiently short time to live that they die before they can finish creating the page) < 1363630345 674690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or probably other things I haven't thought of) < 1363630347 162112 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: if it's in Wikipedia it's real. You can use this fact to modify the universe around you < 1363630348 781425 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :« As illustrated in that paper, an analogy is made with the contrast between the philosophical views of Plato and Kant with respect to the characteristics of “real” objects, but applied to software ones. » programmers you need to stop doing this < 1363630355 92217 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1363630366 761867 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually if everyone could just stop making kant agree with them that woud be great < 1363630373 603149 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is object-oriented programming phallocentric < 1363630376 612377 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't the nineteenth century and you're not a philosopher < 1363630381 277733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPerson: that is actually sadly truer than it might look < 1363630382 674613 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'd like to stop doing that, but I Kant < 1363630383 991952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1363630390 531066 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my CS degree automatically makes me an expert in philosophy, medicine, and law < 1363630396 911628 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those are for dumb people < 1363630399 45546 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are definitely nontrivial ways in which you can modify the universe via editing wikipedia < 1363630454 211836 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean kay was definitely an avid plato reader when he came up with smalltalk but you can't just pretend simula and biology weren't super important < 1363630454 420716 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1363630456 63348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. Would anyone sane use wikipedia for something important without doing further research? < 1363630467 422504 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa kmc i thought you were serious for a second!! < 1363630471 112515 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of people do Vorpal < 1363630475 82047 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do sane people actually exist? < 1363630476 522726 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I would argue that doing that makes you insane. < 1363630477 753049 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's zen programming, there should be like philosophic programming? < 1363630482 945829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i've realized not everyone knows when i'm kidding < 1363630483 675304 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, thus meaning that they are not sane < 1363630485 801986 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zen programming, what the fuck is that < 1363630489 556962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps; I needed an algorithm for topological sort < 1363630494 291944 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, interesting question < 1363630496 682675 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "sane" and "insane" are kind of dumb terms < 1363630504 262900 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither is even used medically any more! < 1363630505 862589 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think for a modest fee you could pay people to listen to everything you say (via hidden microphone / smartphone) and edit Wikipedia in real time so that you're always correct about stuff < 1363630510 745625 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I got one off Wikipedia (the algorithm, that is; I implemented the code myself), and it appears to work, and is currently in production code < 1363630513 739941 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be a great trick < 1363630521 12707 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I have absolutely no idea what that is < 1363630522 467371 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was it for use in something important? Or just a hobby project? < 1363630524 468093 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you don't need money, just fame < 1363630530 559651 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh true < 1363630531 813176 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm < 1363630532 901805 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1363630534 958429 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything that stephen colbert says, for instance < 1363630545 71672 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: a recent boondocks episode had a judge check wikipedia to see if obama had legalized weed. good stuff < 1363630555 412736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Wikipedia editors have taken to also listening to everything he says so that they can revert attempts by people to add it to articles < 1363630564 533098 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hm, doesn't look like he has. oh but several states..." < 1363630580 811778 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's in the Verity compiler < 1363630591 282598 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrrm < 1363630608 396398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I may need to change it for computational order reasons, it turns out that linked lists of pairs are not the most efficient representations of directed possibly-acyclic graphs < 1363630621 191904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wouldn't have done that myself. I would probably have started at wikipedia, but then gone on to check the sources it cited. < 1363630637 372148 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that show still exists? woah < 1363630639 343894 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need cites for some topological sort pseudocode? < 1363630644 751703 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i know, i was surprised too, but there it was < 1363630655 375390 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :episode was about Grandpa smoking weed. good episode < 1363630660 168931 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah but checking to see if the algorithm looks reasonable, and the page hasn't been edited in ages, and there's no clear sign of vandalism < 1363630667 813811 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that might work < 1363630673 772987 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, If I was going to use it for something in research or production yes < 1363630693 362201 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sloppier than you then, i'd just implement it and check to see that it worked < 1363630713 121946 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is why i'm unemployed < 1363630726 892041 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, well, I would be worried about there being some fault that only showed up in some edge cases, if the algorithm was non-trivial at least. < 1363630736 877478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's also quite hard (although not impossible) to hide a logic bomb in a mathematical description of an algorithm < 1363630747 204211 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be worried about that from the cited pages too < 1363630756 635030 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Internet Relay Programming like human-objected programing? < 1363630758 655395 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's happened before now (most famously an accidental self-inflicted one on Knuth), but it's rare < 1363630765 837914 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :*oriented ugh < 1363630777 32601 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean we all know the story about that C pearls sort or w/e that had a wraparound error < 1363630793 511782 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I don't know that story < 1363630794 762674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me < 1363630808 603167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't know that story < 1363630829 172361 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I was thinking about was about concurrent garbage collection, which is a field inherently prone to bizarre edge cases and even corner cases < 1363630840 813271 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :many binary search implementations in C are broken because (left + right) / 2 can overflow < 1363630843 713280 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a commonly repeated binary search algorithm had the usual (hi + lo) /2 to find the median < 1363630846 742698 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that < 1363630849 214301 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://googleresearch.blogspot.com/2006/06/extra-extra-read-all-about-it-nearly.html < 1363630863 934453 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363630871 789821 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking C programmers < 1363630874 182757 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that would be one thing that would worry me < 1363630899 81174 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, that one < 1363630916 642592 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that one's at least as likely to come up in a binary search written from scratch < 1363630922 625399 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION realizes he made the same error in some quick code he spit out, though it would fall back to bignums so it's just a speed problem < 1363630929 952644 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more likely to come up in academic paper implementations, which don't have to worry about overflow < 1363630933 553556 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of Ksplice's upstream Linux contributions was finding the dozens of binary search implementations in Linux, most of which were broken in this way, and replacing them with a library < 1363630937 331795 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1363630945 323666 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT < 1363630946 996417 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wer < 1363630947 642842 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1363630952 687352 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits < 1363630952 920170 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: whoa whoa whoa, code reuse? in real life? < 1363630954 242031 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is why you should probably use your standard library if possible < 1363630956 44600 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: arguably if you have equal-sized ints and pointers, and you're sorting things larger than a single byte < 1363630963 63145 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't division work like normal in modular arithmetic < 1363630969 123573 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is probably the safest bet. Either that or a dedicated math library < 1363630971 470930 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the overflow can't happen due to the numbers not working large enough < 1363630972 977130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no < 1363630973 252298 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "like normal" mean < 1363630977 128265 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :addition subtraction multiplication do < 1363630977 337599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe you binary search indices rather than pointers < 1363630978 874215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :division doesn't < 1363630982 543584 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: the problem is the intermediate hi+lo < 1363630983 417154 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363631000 274642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait right < 1363631000 693623 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well this isn't even a pedantic "signed overflow is undefined" thing < 1363631004 477826 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it breaks even on two's complement < 1363631017 156516 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it would if you weren't doing it mod 2^n! < 1363631022 586156 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw, what's the most commonly used system that isn't two's complement?) < 1363631028 775108 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows overflow doesn't actually ever happen < 1363631030 4283 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign and magnitude? < 1363631041 120784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I meant computer system < 1363631043 213461 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sign bit, in floats < 1363631047 755815 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I guess < 1363631051 515788 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sign and magnitude is a computer system... < 1363631055 446348 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but two's complement doesn't work with floats < 1363631060 59978 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think any recent architectures use it of course < 1363631064 817645 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well, processor + accompanying electronics < 1363631065 33217 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you didn't specify integers only < 1363631073 643187 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know < 1363631082 563024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :architecture is probably the word I was looking for < 1363631085 542694 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm mostly sure that some old architectures used sign+magnitude for integers < 1363631107 634671 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :manitude < 1363631121 269116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ooh, Verity reached a milestone recently: it got sufficiently good at interacting with other people's systems that it had its first endianness issue < 1363631122 752796 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to say VAX but i say VAX for everything < 1363631135 347821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel that this is something of a milestone < 1363631136 224210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, everything modern uses two complement for integer arithmetics afaik. And unsigned division/multiplication of course. < 1363631141 29915 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about relative magnitudes (pun not intended), but it's a well-known fact that sign-and-magnitude, one's-complement and two's-complement are the "big three". < 1363631151 202818 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363631155 82088 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, IBM 7090 < 1363631156 506051 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most research languages never get to have endianness issues because they handle all the representations-of-integers themselves < 1363631157 139281 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :older than i thought < 1363631159 988962 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally < 1363631170 163473 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh nice < 1363631180 495143 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This numeric representation system was common in older computers; the PDP-1, CDC 160A and UNIVAC 1100/2200 series, among many others, used ones'-complement arithmetic." okay real old here < 1363631197 652436 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you might run into bit endianness in verity I presume? < 1363631207 867057 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should all use log log representation of everything < 1363631208 296342 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm thinking of another language < 1363631213 279695 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: one's complement is basically as easy to implement in hardware as two's complement, you feed the carry output from the last adder into the carry input of the first < 1363631218 753013 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i interview co-op students and ask them what is the advantage of two's complement < 1363631234 461401 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: only possibly in drivers < 1363631238 570559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this was a byte endianness issue < 1363631240 494318 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Google's Protocol Buffers "zig-zag encoding" is a system similar to sign-and-magnitude, but uses the least significant bit to represent the sign and has a single representation of zero. This has the advantage to make variable-length quantity encoding efficient with signed integers.» ooh, neat < 1363631244 401588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: "co-op students"? < 1363631245 192008 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1363631252 631839 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :co-op students < 1363631254 65870 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily I don't have to write the drivers any more < 1363631255 652206 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But you have a more difficult equality comparison, thanks to -0. < 1363631258 198674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: as in, what are those? < 1363631258 410049 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't verity the hardware compiling language? < 1363631262 31337 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes < 1363631270 762828 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are students who get temporary internships at companies < 1363631280 773659 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which somehow count towards their CS degree < 1363631284 952985 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely you can run into bit-endianness talking to native vhdl or verilog components then? < 1363631298 870254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no because VHDL and Verilog both abstract away bit endianness < 1363631307 282589 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? Huh < 1363631310 161714 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually technically speaking VHDL doesn't, but indexing an array forwards will get you lynched < 1363631328 263422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought you could set whichever direction you wanted in VHDL at least < 1363631334 758024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing std_logic_vector(3 downto 0) is fine < 1363631336 303210 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There's at least one balanced ternary computer too. < 1363631347 251261 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing std_logic_vector(0 to 3) will cause everyone to hate you and refuse to work with your code < 1363631361 829359 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think you get at least a warning if you mix endiannesses < 1363631364 464163 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that change the endianness? I forgot heh < 1363631374 197320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, VHDL does have both endiannesses but one of them won and nobody uses the other one < 1363631379 42060 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except by mistake < 1363631397 977833 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if you want to change the endianness in order to talk to some external hardware though? < 1363631437 687280 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1363631441 923310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you do that by redefining what internal signal is attached to what pin < 1363631458 47668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, for a serial protocol maybe? < 1363631463 58304 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which needn't necessarily be in any particular order, because the order your pins go in depends on what leads to the most convenient wiring < 1363631465 138154 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is just over time though < 1363631473 187581 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a serial protocol it depends on how you write your modem < 1363631488 235577 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is modem really the right word here? < 1363631489 125887 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hopefully, you know some things of Verilog like what I was asking of? < 1363631517 146664 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: can you repeat the question? I might know the answer but didn't see the question < 1363631521 763840 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it counts as a modem if there's no MODulation going on. < 1363631527 562130 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: would "codec" be better? < 1363631534 982712 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1363631540 147582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there is modulation going on, though < 1363631544 336448 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :of a simplistic sort < 1363631614 522881 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have various questions, actually. One is, can the I/O ports of a module be vectors that are split across different parts of the I/O list, rather than necessarily being all together? < 1363631615 454192 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Possibly it's an endec. (I think that's a wider concept?) < 1363631627 602677 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :codec? < 1363631633 318241 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, By that definition almost all electronic is a modem < 1363631634 745831 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoder/decoder, rather than coder/decoder? < 1363631677 904228 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, and to differentiate from the compressor/decompressor alt of codec. < 1363631738 781953 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia page on endec suggests that endecs are hardware while codecs are software, but given the page, it's probably just some random jerk's opinion. < 1363632054 413622 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of endecs before today < 1363632056 700655 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I do have other questions too, such as do you know about Verilog with analog signals too? < 1363632083 626018 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why my router things that one of my computer's names is in upper case < 1363632085 259775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Verilog synthesizers don't handle analog signals, and the language does not have very good support for them < 1363632085 472881 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1363632108 491609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the I/O ports of a module all have to be declared in the same place, but there doesn't have to be any other relation between them < 1363632115 516463 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : never heard of endecs before today <-- same < 1363632160 808668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think VHDL does analog signals either? < 1363632174 918889 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe simulation only thingy for logging or something? < 1363632219 434060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes I know that they are declared in the same place, I mean can I declare PRG_A[11:0] and then some other I/O and then PRG_A[12:14] after that (the different direction is deliberate)? < 1363632231 452780 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363632253 918609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: no, you can't do that, you're declaring variables and types for them < 1363632271 98786 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you can do, and what I often do, is just assign the publicly visible ports to internal variables at the start of your code < 1363632275 669261 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I mean inside of the I/O list for the module, rather than the declaration for the types. < 1363632296 723560 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, try it and see what happens? < 1363632301 305260 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O, OK, if that is how it has to use? < 1363632311 903233 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's the simplest way I know of < 1363632312 392965 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363632356 897383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why didn't they make it allowed? < 1363632382 742784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: because it's a programming language, you declare variables and types for them < 1363632395 921720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't declare half a variable, then the type of that half, and later on decide to add more on to the same variable < 1363632406 67150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there is a I/O list for the module, isn't it? < 1363632431 541978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that's still a list of parameters and types for them < 1363632438 659824 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree it doesn't make sense when declaring the type and variable generally, but in the I/O list it seem it should be allowed? < 1363632442 173183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, you don't do int foo(int a, short b, actually a is a long) < 1363632457 944986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can argue that Verilog should be designed less like a programming language < 1363632468 544860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was designed as a programming language, and so follows similar conventions < 1363632555 317850 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Of course in C there is no such thing; it would mess up the calling conventions. < 1363632572 731203 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Verilog also has calling conventions, it couldn't be compiled or simulated otherwise < 1363632602 27862 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But aren't the Verilog calling conventions just the orders of the bits, or did I do something wrong? < 1363632615 52300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does MIT still have all their DNS records in UPPER CASE? < 1363632631 713832 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"169.22.9.18.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer WWW.MIT.EDU" APPARENTLY < 1363632659 574674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, they have inputs and outputs and inouts, that's also important < 1363632670 450978 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and support for types other than bits at least in simulatoin < 1363632673 21030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simulation < 1363632684 452231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in at least VHDL simulations, and probably Verilog too, you can even do string handling if you feel like it < 1363632755 339508 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MIT has the whole 18.0.0.0/8 at their disposition. < 1363632775 694548 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Well I have the whole 10/8 here SO THERE. < 1363632779 673394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so it's not quite the same thing. < 1363632787 13715 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 10/8 < 1363632790 143649 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1.25 < 1363632805 698053 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I congratulate you on your one and a quarter, fizzie < 1363632851 788593 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363632877 93264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, "Defense Information Systems Agency" has the whole 22.0.0.0/8, 26.0.0.0/8, 29.0.0.0/8 and 30.0.0.0/8. I'm sure they make good use of them. < 1363632912 793297 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Can module I/O be formats other than fixed number of bits, though? At least in some cases, a bit-count calling convention for module I/O might be useful, even though in some cases it might not be appropriate, possibly. < 1363632922 834125 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of quarters, I have one from connecticut in my wallet. < 1363632942 588507 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Verilog tries to hide its type system by making everything bits < 1363632963 381443 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has to interoperate with VHDL, which has quite an obvious type system < 1363632994 709653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are those the people the Internet was created for in the first place? < 1363633024 598360 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They certainly have a big chunk of it, still. < 1363633069 298043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how it differs from Army Information Systems Center (who have 6.0.0.0/8), but I suppose it's very different. < 1363633081 291549 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISA has a Wikipedia page, the latter doesn't. < 1363633089 903763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well that seems to refer to the army in particular < 1363633090 385690 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah guys hacking is OT on this channel < 1363633097 751350 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's a subset of the military < 1363633108 902088 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I'm telling christel < 1363633173 510134 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So would you know if such a thing as this would work with Verilog? http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/User:Zzo38/Mapper_768#Submapper_1 < 1363633180 354627 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I have here a dime and a cent, they've been rolling around my table since a visit to Portland, OR, in September, 2012. I have no idea what to do with them. < 1363633206 654748 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm a bit busy to look at that < 1363633227 994739 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like currency exchange places would take them, and the value is so close to zero, it's hard to care terribly much, but on the other hand I don't want to just throw them away either. < 1363633234 158104 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first sixty I/O ports of the main module of the Verilog code must correspond to the pins 01 to 60 of the 60-pin Famicom cartridge, in that order. This is followed by the pins for the PRG ROM, CHR ROM, non-battery PRG RAM, non-battery CHR RAM, battery PRG RAM, and battery CHR RAM. < 1363633247 161839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you have any children you could give them to? < 1363633251 793897 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :children often like foreign currency < 1363633255 906012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands with $ at front might not be implemented, but should be safely ignored if not implemented. However, if there is a trainer ROM, there will be an additional command $trainer to access 8-bit numbers given the 9-bit address, and $battery_init which tell you if you need to initialize the battery RAM. < 1363633260 659269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Analog commands may be used with the audio signals. < 1363633269 4252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the relevant parts. < 1363633279 893835 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this correct? < 1363633306 674916 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I once found a French franc in my wallet. I have no idea how it got there. < 1363633322 942938 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I *could* count as a child, and I'm foreign. < 1363633341 827754 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some foreign money in my desk drawer too. I just keep it there for now. < 1363633357 971480 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're not going to be able to synthesize analog circuitry with verilog, its execution model isn't suited to it < 1363633413 562426 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Would it be possible to omit those parts in a digital synthesis though, and then build the analog stuff separately? < 1363633440 974679 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's possible to mark parts of VHDL to be ignored by synthesizers; I don't know if Verilog has that feature, but it wouldn't surprise me < 1363633452 873839 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the execution model of the language is unsuited to expressing analog circuits, though < 1363633459 941095 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there any HDL for synthesizing analogue circuits? < 1363633460 949987 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4d0b77d4.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363633464 682136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it but only because Verilog is Turing-complete, it doesn't have any support for it < 1363633471 593648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that I know of < 1363633475 162343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hmm < 1363633482 584254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are proprietary simulators that use netlists as input < 1363633488 176756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if there's any standard for those yet < 1363633497 591871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used one but I've read about them < 1363633506 204717 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1363633509 661547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, netlists are what typical synthesizers /output/, it's a very very low level format < 1363633512 231374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read that there is some extensions to Verilog for analog wires < 1363633533 770917 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem is that Verilog/VHDL's execution model is based around storing things in registers at clock edges < 1363633540 630616 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure simulators for analogue circuits exist. I even seen one at university, forgot the name of it. < 1363633541 862336 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to create a reliable analog register < 1363633545 283337 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I meant a HDL < 1363633571 267362 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I know, that's why I answered your question the way I answere dit < 1363633574 586021 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*answered it < 1363633576 774072 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did the old analog computers work? < 1363633591 358838 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they were basically a set of components that you joined together manually < 1363633591 736907 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1363633596 748780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for electronic computers, with wires < 1363633601 303428 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the $trainer and $battery_init commands are not supposed to be synthesizable either; they are meant only for emulation (and possibly could be ignored or switch off by conditional compiling if you are compiling to hardware) < 1363633601 964466 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1363633604 421028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the mechanical ones, by placing cogs at appropriate places < 1363633608 563420 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to join shafts together < 1363633608 887740 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1363633610 841499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1363633619 940805 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but how did they store information I mean < 1363633623 290602 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: One used to occasionally-rarely get Italian 500 lire coins in place of the Finnish 10 mark coins, because they look -- http://digilander.libero.it/maggioref/500%20lire%20normali.JPG and http://i.ucoin.net/coin/178/1781/178195_2/finland_10_finnish_markkaa_1993.jpg -- slightly similar at a glance. (And the exchange rates as of the introduction of the euro were something like 500 ITL = ... < 1363633628 401601 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did they use instead of registers < 1363633629 73323 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: they didn't, that's what "analog" means < 1363633629 300290 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... 1.54 FIM, so it was a good deal to the person who initially put the coin into circulation.) < 1363633641 89736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :all data existed instantaneously < 1363633656 912789 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and varied over time < 1363633664 678800 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: are you familiar with data flow programs or synthesizers < 1363633666 862693 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't that analog just mean they are using a continuous signal, instead of two or more levels? < 1363633668 932735 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :analog computers are like that < 1363633669 213438 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :an analog computer calculates everything as a function of other things < 1363633681 87664 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, no not really < 1363633681 549573 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have an analog computer with registers < 1363633685 693893 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :common components would include add, multiply by constant, integrate, differentiate < 1363633691 3131 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1363633692 167560 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think any built one really did, though < 1363633697 584873 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :since most of them were differential analyzers < 1363633703 253636 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely you could set up some sort of feedback loop though < 1363633711 919162 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yes, they're not very useful without feedback loops < 1363633713 416283 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a feedback loop could be used to store information < 1363633722 396512 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, surely you could set up some sort of feedback loop though < 1363633722 605545 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: yes, they're not very useful without feedback loops < 1363633724 60479 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're time-continuous feedback loops < 1363633725 187395 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what? < 1363633726 290828 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how digital memory worked too :) < 1363633727 528844 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: USD and CAD coins are the same colours, same weight, same sizes, and are worth about the same. they get easily mixed at border areas. < 1363633728 282963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, there is the esolang Proce, for analog stuff too, I have been told, and it include the operations you specified < 1363633734 600409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get storage, but it's not particularly useful < 1363633737 644441 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true < 1363633741 406230 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hey, delay lines < 1363633744 515230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not particularly like registers < 1363633753 294567 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: still no explanation about that spontaneous franc, which is worth... < 1363633754 905667 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: delay lines don't work for analog storage < 1363633767 906254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :digital delay lines include a "reshaping" circuit that's used to sharpen the corners on the 1s and 0s < 1363633768 256315 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? Don't they just store waves in mercury? < 1363633779 301029 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: basically a feedback loop is only like a register in that it can be held constant, to get information out you have it "send" it < 1363633781 61285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, the problem is the data degrades a huge amount in transit < 1363633790 666044 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363633801 198032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can also use an integrator to store data < 1363633806 973346 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the analogy to registers is kind of useless < 1363633810 986579 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave input at 0, it retains its current value < 1363633816 903149 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :change input to 1 for a second, you're adding 1 < 1363633819 793448 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should just read some papers by Shannon or von Neumann and stop listening to me < 1363633823 406630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise you can subtract 1 by changing the input to -1 for a second < 1363633836 912379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that these analog components don't behave a whole lot like digital components in general < 1363633840 546322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1363633840 964334 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shannon developed a model of analog computers, the GPAC, and there's been some not-ancient work on that < 1363633860 893904 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody or another proved it "equivalent" in a weird way to turing machines < 1363633863 855693 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye ais < 1363633873 108453 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1363633879 965603 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ~20 ¢, so a gain of approximatively 5 cents. < 1363633882 34075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I want mix analog/digital is not only for Famicom mappers, but also, I have the idea I want to be able to use a Verilog code with Csound, somehow, in order to make a chip tune music with Csound. < 1363633886 267456 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, interesting < 1363633902 621475 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does someone other than ais523 have the suggestion of such thing (since ais523 has quit)? < 1363633924 847271 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, write your own simulation in C? It is probably far easier < 1363633928 337836 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :von neumann wrote a few papers about analog, particularly i've read a paper of his that developed a model of making reliable neural networks (in a not-biological sense, but whatever) out of unreliable analog components < 1363633950 156650 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, oh nice < 1363633971 205240 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm or maybe they were just dataflow, but digital... it's been a while < 1363633981 537540 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, anyway we make reliable digital electronics out of analog components all the time. Transistors are not perfectly digital. < 1363633986 373534 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, it could be written in C to make a Csound plugin, or in the Csound orchestra programming language, but I want to be able to use it with Verilog too < 1363633986 968890 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'course < 1363634004 906699 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :von neumann was writing in like the 50s you realize < 1363634020 69945 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :transistors were barely extant < 1363634024 951239 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1363634038 441774 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway GPACs are more like what ais was talking about < 1363634044 79720 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not familiar with how vacuum tubes behave electrically < 1363634049 99850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Back when they introduced a new set of coins (in 1992) for the Finnish mark, many coin-operated vending machines (incl. the soda vending machine at my school... um, hypothetically) accepted the old 0.50 FIM coin as the 5 FIM coin, for a nice factor of 10. (They didn't look particularly similar, but the diameter and weight matched very well.) < 1363634060 719555 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://arxiv.org/abs/1203.4667 < 1363634088 780153 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1363634105 236100 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think synthesizers are a good intuitive model of this really < 1363634117 37197 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have something generating a wave, you pass it through a filter < 1363634132 595755 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :added bonus, you get to help zzo38 with whatever on earth he's doing < 1363634138 900388 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1363634152 723216 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that really a bonus? XD < 1363634179 529034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Or come to think of it (and looking at those dates), maybe it was more like that some new vending machines introduced 5-10 years *after* the coinage change were the ones that confused them. But it was still a nice way to use a pile of leftover 0.50 FIM coins. Same machines also accepted old 0.20 FIM as 1 FIM, but that's just a factor of 5. < 1363634189 767629 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Obviously it is. < 1363634201 32775 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone tell me the name of a play about the roman emperor Commodus (before he was emperor) that was written in rhyme and I think iambic pentameter < 1363634202 736201 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 is the new craze that's sweeping the nation. < 1363634235 977854 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't understand half of what he's saying so i assume it must be interesting. < 1363634252 850581 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the '10s, and there is time to zzo38. < 1363634259 107808 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Then you must learn. < 1363634275 232210 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, get a FAMICOM emulator and dev kit. < 1363634277 463421 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1363634278 547235 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the first step < 1363634291 565185 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming it must be interesting, is not a valid logic, but it is a valid opinion, I guess) < 1363634292 578912 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this year stamped in the cent the production year? Then I guess this is a reasonably old coin, since it says 1964 on it. < 1363634297 108459 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is FAMICOM even an acronym, or are they just yelling < 1363634308 744085 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was Family Computer < 1363634311 100536 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363634312 614789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It is short for Family Computer < 1363634313 442804 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1363634328 908913 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAMILY COMPUTER!!! < 1363634338 612165 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also yes it's invalid zzo38, i'm no good with syllogisms < 1363634338 916980 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NINTENDO ENTERTAINMENT SYSTEM! < 1363634345 474235 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does a FAMICOM and a NES differ? < 1363634352 956576 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from region < 1363634363 464630 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't have region coding in those days < 1363634365 915253 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've never thought how machines recognise coins before now < 1363634372 120228 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, true < 1363634377 944810 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, different external design < 1363634380 755741 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not to say that NES and Famicoms aren't different, they are) < 1363634382 537243 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay < 1363634387 464103 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, so internals didn't differ? < 1363634389 156121 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: didn't you ever read How Stuff Works as a kid < 1363634394 894787 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ah, so by calling the systems different things people thought you couldn't import the games? < 1363634395 194087 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not as far as I am aware < 1363634397 805924 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask zzo38 < 1363634401 631421 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, why different design though? Seems pointlessly expensive < 1363634403 161083 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic must be involved. < 1363634411 969139 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, appeal to different markets < 1363634421 174060 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US video game market had just crashed pretty badly < 1363634425 384504 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: back when the NES came out i don't think there was much appeal to importing games. < 1363634429 932148 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, only for Famicom? I guess I'll have to wait for the NES release..." < 1363634431 686178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the United States, most vending machines have advanced currency detection techniques that can discern coins by reading the coins' "magnetic signature;" thus, many American vending machines will not take coins from other countries, even if their sizes are similar." < 1363634452 65502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced currency detection techniques sounds fancy. < 1363634469 731449 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: originally adapted from cold war soviet sub detection < 1363634477 275326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't they use at least different video standards? < 1363634482 673092 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hello < 1363634488 128998 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i meant with games specifically < 1363634491 733292 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc it boils down to applying a magnetic field and measuring the deceleration < 1363634496 810361 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think NTSC and PAL an stuff were around yes < 1363634502 56705 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1363634504 950634 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hilliotttttt < 1363634520 235138 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but japan uses NTSC < 1363634524 413750 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's way too many "t"s < 1363634531 273041 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, didn't Japan use NTSC? < 1363634538 614963 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought only Europe used PAL < 1363634541 591246 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NES/Famicom is mostly the same, although the cartridge is different. Also, the RF Famicom is different to AV Famicom. < 1363634544 676987 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought japan used secam < 1363634551 604529 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg < 1363634560 954332 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, wasn't that France? < 1363634561 532395 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i've never even heard of secam < 1363634566 413710 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: most of the world uses PAL < 1363634582 747527 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe most? < 1363634585 794044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there's the map < 1363634586 542784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, true, but iirc SECAM in France and NTSC in US and JP? < 1363634586 768564 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i don't actually know what NTSC and PAL are in the first place other than something ... something < 1363634589 993433 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I could be wrong < 1363634593 742989 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SECAM is the french "different because we're french" standard < 1363634596 558754 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, my cent -- http://cointrackers.com/coins/13649/1964-lincoln-penny/ -- is technically worth 20 cents! < 1363634600 108700 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well yes < 1363634601 141218 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like russia uses it < 1363634601 597036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know russia uses it though! < 1363634609 751775 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the coveted mongolian market < 1363634617 832192 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :we once had a fancy japanese-brand VCR that did secam and other acronyms, I just assumed one of them would be "japanese tv" < 1363634618 591009 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Another explanation for the Eastern European adoption of SECAM, led by the Soviet Union, is that the Russians had extremely long distribution lines between broadcasting stations and transmitters... Long co-axial cables or microwave links can cause amplitude and phase variations, which do not affect SECAM signals." < 1363634635 943768 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i'm thinking this map looks like the one from 1984. < 1363634642 905556 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"According to this explanation, East German political authorities were well aware of West German television's popularity and adopted SECAM rather than the PAL encoding used in West Germany." < 1363634651 417702 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: haha < 1363634656 57099 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most cases the same game can work in NES, Famicom, and some other clones. < 1363634659 647539 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man french guiana < 1363634667 914805 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all by its lonesome there, can't pick up any brazilian TV < 1363634673 978951 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microphone is only in RF Famicom, though; AV Famicom and NES lacks this features. < 1363634684 492932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Western Sahara is the one island of NTSC in Africa < 1363634685 399005 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, RF? < 1363634690 304818 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Radio Frequency? < 1363634692 310444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1363634699 431841 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that looks like no info < 1363634707 911970 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense considering western sahara's population < 1363634708 847450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's greyed out because a) not a country, b) how many televisions are there anyway < 1363634723 768921 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Officially they just call it "Famicom" but I call it RF Famicom to distinguish from AV Famicom, since it is connected to the TV set by RF cables. < 1363634728 689671 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bangladesh what are you doing < 1363634732 327254 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ah < 1363634738 276246 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is bangladesh isn't it < 1363634744 968871 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it had a mic? What was that used for in practice? < 1363634770 545425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's myanmar < 1363634776 570844 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeshi_no_Ch%C5%8Dsenj%C5%8D used it < 1363634778 203741 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: shit. < 1363634782 772708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Hardly anything, although there are some games (even ones written this year!) that use it, usually optionally. < 1363634787 424791 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh i was confusing burma and thailand < 1363634801 868378 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget are we calling it myanmar or burma now < 1363634810 491090 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember either < 1363634811 492331 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is of course an intensely political question < 1363634813 703376 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Famicom Hangman optionally uses the microphone to mix up the random number generator some more) < 1363634821 424376 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Myanmar (Burma)" < 1363634823 32202 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Fucked Up Country i guess < 1363634826 489342 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1363634826 709626 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: myanmar and burma are spelled the same way in myanmarian < 1363634841 993470 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :still can't believe they had a socialist government based on killing communists < 1363634866 194234 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is confusing < 1363634866 412122 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, really? < 1363634868 150492 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :("bike the soviet union did that too" "shut up") < 1363634906 473778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the great thing about kinds of socialism is that there are so many to choose from < 1363634908 94101 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: one name is from how it was pronounced ages ago, the other is how they actually say it nowadays, but their writing system hasn't changes from "ages ago" < 1363634920 786387 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, ah < 1363634930 488484 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about spoken? < 1363634934 544470 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, which one is the modern pronunciation? < 1363634951 97563 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fun facts do not come in such detail < 1363634956 952087 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363634960 298618 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that would make them not fun) < 1363634982 324596 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, you mean they would move on to being hilarious? < 1363635052 254307 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the actual contemporary pronounciation is not remotely similar to either name, and in fact they all speak indonesian or somesuch anyway < 1363635071 551120 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Burma? Hmm... < 1363635098 970610 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a military junta there? < 1363635102 205131 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :burma has a lot of languages < 1363635106 734860 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, though they've been liberalizing < 1363635149 408272 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :burmese is the official language, though i don't know if that means it's actually popular (though i'd guess it is) < 1363635159 480903 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Burmese is spoken by 32 million as a first language and as a second language by 10 million" k then. < 1363635184 775145 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Burmese is one of the 5 languages with more than 5 million speakers that have a "th" sound like in English "with" < 1363635205 848866 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what is my name today? < 1363635215 972338 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: fun fact #2: fun facts are usually at least partially wrong < 1363635229 761628 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, is that a fact? < 1363635230 280478 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact 0 = 1 < 1363635244 112084 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: that's what makes them fun < 1363635259 387835 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: th and dh sounds are evil. < 1363635266 894422 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that Hong Kong and Macao, the two Chinese dependencies on the southern coast of China, are omitted on the map. Both city-states use the NTSC/NTSC J system." < 1363635269 816511 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one country two systems < 1363635287 586453 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PAL with chinese characteristics < 1363635296 587770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363635298 795339 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone who's lived in England all his life and has English as his first language and can't tell the difference between f and th < 1363635299 506498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric : | fact n = n * fact (n - 1) < 1363635310 823070 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, NTSC J? < 1363635312 504086 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only controls used by the current version of Famicom Hangman are the letter keys and the space-bar. < 1363635314 178794 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1363635314 927628 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that he's quite a good serious actor < 1363635327 227985 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only Japan's variant "NTSC-J" is slightly different: in Japan, black level and blanking level of the signal are identical (at 0 IRE), as they are in PAL, while in American NTSC, black level is slightly higher (7.5 IRE) than blanking level. Since the difference is quite small, a slight turn of the brightness knob is all that is required to correctly show the "other" variant of NTSC on any set as it is supposed to be; most watchers mig < 1363635340 852189 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, really? < 1363635346 923766 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, that doesn't make any sense < 1363635353 65635 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are rather different sounds < 1363635356 130181 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1363635357 25791 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way as long as we're talking about burma < 1363635357 438708 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so technically NTSC and PAL are both color standards over a B&W standard which can vary < 1363635359 683752 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He associates them < 1363635365 886582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :however NTSC is always used with "System M" < 1363635366 101677 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to mention that the place is so fucked that wikipedia has this article < 1363635369 64732 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ceasefires_in_Burma < 1363635369 516236 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a psychological thing < 1363635371 884763 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, i have a friend like that except he's scots-algerian < 1363635374 903823 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, and I say that, not having the th sound in my native language < 1363635379 824080 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, albanian, arabic, danish, english, german, hebrew, portuguese, spanish, swahili, turkmen < 1363635381 903641 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks wikipedia < 1363635387 831279 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he kind of has an excuse < 1363635391 738802 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Burma since we were on that topic earlier < 1363635396 260426 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that makes it any less hilarious < 1363635397 563737 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL#PAL_broadcast_systems < 1363635413 113731 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I have a friend who's scots-algerian too. have we the same friend? < 1363635414 7360 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with an article as big as some countries) < 1363635421 694407 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You and me, PAL. < 1363635426 870663 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, the sound I do have an issue with is the "ch" sound. Like in chair and chest. Sometimes it seems to come in slightly different variants. Really hard to hear the difference there for me < 1363635435 470845 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, i suspect there may be an age difference between them < 1363635448 616783 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: maybe. < 1363635462 957707 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, I think it's quite close to "dsh" or "tsh"? < 1363635469 229925 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing we took digital TV as an opportunity to finally standardize world wide < 1363635470 85413 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also think th and f are quite close < 1363635472 383729 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1363635499 12805 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, Yeah, can't really hear the difference between those variants unless the person saying it over-exaggerates. < 1363635500 552051 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, is it an aspiration thing? < 1363635501 147017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: Hebrew doesn't have the English "th" sound. < 1363635505 190728 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... that got me thinking about standards... and I suppose IP is a standard that's been pretty universally adopted? < 1363635506 157914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did I mix it up? < 1363635516 661693 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's the j sound which is basically voiced ch < 1363635518 365685 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oops < 1363635520 417830 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, Maybe. We don't really make that difference in Sweden, whatever it is < 1363635525 860265 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hebrew Iraqi אדוני [ʔaðoˈnaj] (help·info) 'my lord' Commonly pronounced [d]. See Modern Hebrew phonology < 1363635541 716398 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think it is the d/t thing Taneb is talking about < 1363635542 880226 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably only [] if you're some kind of -pronouncing asshole < 1363635561 395315 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well it's adopted world wide, but lots of other standards coexist < 1363635566 487579 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, I'm referring to [θ] < 1363635568 153623 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :either independently or by tunneling one over the other < 1363635590 865786 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HebrewIIraqi < 1363635592 579618 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, also some voiced phonemes are kind of hard to pronounce for me, again we lack them in Swedish < 1363635609 601156 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: isn't the -th in with a different sound? < 1363635616 720300 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, er < 1363635626 432598 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pronounced /wɪð/... < 1363635626 672745 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not voiced, wrong word < 1363635626 881852 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :voiced rather than voiceless, I think < 1363635632 116817 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find the right word < 1363635650 54559 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err, "with" is) < 1363635651 138136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need OSI Model 2.0 which defines layers 8-14 which all run on top of HTTP < 1363635681 404540 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, the phonemes that when you pronounce them feels like your tongue is "buzzing", what are they called... < 1363635683 553986 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: layers 5 and 6 are not even used. let's fill them before adding new layers. < 1363635702 883634 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, well, when you over-pronounce it < 1363635705 296186 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: xen over internet protocol < 1363635710 435662 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, uh < 1363635712 552171 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: hmm, sounds like some kind of periodic table of models < 1363635717 537201 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just looked it up, and with could be either th or th < 1363635721 688927 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, that's voiced < 1363635722 69229 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... z? < 1363635725 664855 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the one in "thin" < 1363635732 351875 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the one in "this" < 1363635733 620794 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :z vs s is the best example of voicedness imo < 1363635739 583786 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just hold your adam's apple < 1363635741 152468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure < 1363635751 372831 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, you have a lot more of then than Swedish iirc < 1363635764 260510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voicing doesn't have anything to do with the tongue, though. < 1363635786 502368 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, isn't v pronounced as f in swedish < 1363635798 309688 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean the letters? No < 1363635800 693444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are separate < 1363635804 551751 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: no, that's norwegian < 1363635821 681767 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something German. < 1363635827 816530 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neitherwedish Norwegian. < 1363635861 433368 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I think they share a common history though, after all in names "av" is sometimes written as "af" (that is like von in this case) < 1363635870 172145 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ʁ] is the bestest phoneme of them all. < 1363635882 460174 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, which one is that? < 1363635902 348546 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_uvular_fricative < 1363635909 612434 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish v is like english v, I think ... but swedes tend to mix up w and v sounds in english, because the w sound is not common < 1363635929 496763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, oh the r sound < 1363635938 135521 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is that too yes < 1363635943 343673 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Syscalls As A Service < 1363635973 696851 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, well okay, r as in Skånska I think? < 1363635981 387948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1363635997 303664 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, "Southern dialects", yes < 1363636001 223402 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, sounds about right < 1363636022 665251 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, so a rolling r basically < 1363636056 227780 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the rolling r, sadly. < 1363636059 393376 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I like the sj-sound too < 1363636060 659606 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have that at all. :/ (In fact, Finnish is reasonably modest when it comes to phonology.) < 1363636069 184454 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :the following example is funny, it says yangir, but it's the g that has the r sound < 1363636078 417568 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1363636112 993640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, /ɧ/ < 1363636128 867813 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: /ɥ/ < 1363636136 340937 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal-velar_fricative < 1363636151 682374 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that one is nasty. < 1363636158 549733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's "funny" (FSVO) about Finnish phonology is that for the most part, our graphemes map to the identical-looking IPA symbols. (Not quite all of them, but still.) < 1363636163 264288 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, how so? I can pronounce it easily! < 1363636195 134547 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can, but I don't know any Swedish people to check if I'm doing it correctly. < 1363636217 363653 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Though the acoustic properties of its [ɧ] allophones are fairly similar, the realizations can vary considerably according to geography, social status, age, gender as well as social context [...]" < 1363636221 458973 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, I have a German relative who lived in Sweden since the 50s, and still has problems pronouncing it < 1363636238 254651 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, since the late 50s < 1363636252 293923 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... makes it sound a bit like swedes communicate only through ɧs < 1363636277 717772 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, well... Sju sjösjuka sjömän... < 1363636314 495667 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just learn finland swedish instead and use ʃ < 1363636321 436544 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1363636324 700682 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1363636327 648408 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363636333 481608 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the hardest Québec French sound isn't even a consonant. we extensively use /ɑ/. < 1363636369 707657 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? that's just an a < 1363636376 306831 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TIL: Quebecois speak exclusively in vowels. < 1363636423 612960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ɑ/ is also the Finnish "a". < 1363636446 598941 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :English lacks the Swedish u too < 1363636447 17028 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ɑ/ has disappeared from France French, mainly. < 1363636463 621004 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is /ɑ/ < 1363636477 388493 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"But... it's just an a!" < 1363636490 520284 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: re "rolling r", I think you confused the names of the r's < 1363636497 169491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm okay < 1363636511 186939 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Which one is the skorrande r? < 1363636537 702275 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I was thinking of < 1363636545 793055 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :uvular or guttural, afaict < 1363636546 5888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :English lacks ʉː right? < 1363636577 992776 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it has nothing to that effect. < 1363636599 271211 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1363636690 755119 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363636734 335257 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly they should give each language some unique, non-shared phoneme, so that everyone'd have something to be proud of. < 1363636758 335876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd run out < 1363636761 351935 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well Swedish has a couple of unique ones, with the ɧ < 1363636765 343558 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one I guess < 1363636775 446139 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: You can just add more subdivisions. < 1363636781 889869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's this one fairly tame phoneme which isn't used by any languages < 1363636825 962921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, oh? < 1363636828 518779 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that < 1363636855 242045 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1363636932 394598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :voiced labiodental plosive, i think < 1363636984 723503 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also fun in Swedish, anden and anden is pronounced differently depending on if it means "the duck" or "the spirit". Wikipedia lists the former as "[ˈa᷇ndɛ̀n] or [ˈan˥˧dɛn˩]" and the latter as "[ˈa᷆ndɛ̂n] or [ˈan˧˩dɛn˥˩]" < 1363636998 113081 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal < 1363637004 841783 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many words like that in english < 1363637005 725657 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tear < 1363637007 448772 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reading < 1363637014 674675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half-voiced quidental-applasal darentive < 1363637032 305022 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, sure but is it the same type of difference < 1363637040 881806 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1363637063 225531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Voiceless quidditch broomxirant. < 1363637083 564896 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1363637087 265962 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoti < 1363637093 789495 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoti-- < 1363637101 912651 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the Famicom is possible to have keyboard and mouse connected at the same time, but I don't think any existing software uses it! < 1363637104 42253 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma ghoti < 1363637104 269880 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoti has a karma of -1 < 1363637112 524690 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lead < 1363637115 718496 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :live < 1363637123 2855 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-personal.umich.edu/~cellis/heteronym.html < 1363637158 983791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a bunch of noun/verb stress differences there < 1363637168 217916 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can tell our phonological poverty from the fact that most of the IPA symbols of Finnish phonemes are just ASCII. (Okay, so the mid-vowels technically have extra diacritics and there's a few exceptions, but still.) < 1363637189 980110 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, hm < 1363637197 228199 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You make up for your phonology with your conjugation, fizzie < 1363637207 92973 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :having any of your phonemes' IPA symbols in ascii is the sign of failure < 1363637212 592367 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1363637258 204210 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what more programming languages need? a "revert all state apart from the instruction pointer and call stack" command < 1363637264 53847 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :imperative languages, that is < 1363637277 819663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1363637284 495858 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish has a lot of information-bearing phoneme lengths (tuli 'fire' vs. tuuli 'wind' vs. tulli 'customs/toll'), that I think is often mentioned as a curiosity. < 1363637302 638301 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would seem to be very useful for cleanup after an error < 1363637325 72683 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do all the destructive updates you like but always be able to roll back < 1363637330 455637 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, is there any imperative language that has that? < 1363637335 40440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm… that's more or less the exact opposite of a continuation < 1363637337 390909 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not that I know of < 1363637343 761499 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need some scope for that < 1363637347 265749 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: English has these too. Compare: "elliott" and "eliot". < 1363637349 154257 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, you do < 1363637350 900540 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is kind of trucky if there is IO involved as well < 1363637362 661039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest just using a reversible language? < 1363637366 521478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that doesn't have to be reversed < 1363637373 530187 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1363637377 374628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO, I mean < 1363637380 864406 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be for algorithms anyway < 1363637381 917218 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363637386 371757 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps to respond to IO failures < 1363637388 612221 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, so transactional memory then < 1363637399 324583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :just roll back the current transaction < 1363637402 143505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, transactional memory < 1363637403 939474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except nestable < 1363637407 471504 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363637483 10424 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've wanted it to be available repeatedly over the last week < 1363637491 311504 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what for? < 1363637518 204030 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't remember now < 1363637520 389580 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about forking each time and then killing processes up till the point you want to revert to < 1363637526 113561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :other people's programs, I think < 1363637529 894817 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since linux uses copy on write this should work < 1363637530 796824 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's how it's implemented in INTERCAL < 1363637536 114604 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? Niiice < 1363637555 272043 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "each time" presumably means "each time you do anything at all"? < 1363637557 968083 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't want to run intercal on cygwin then < 1363637564 508833 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: each time you enter a stack < 1363637568 729036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, depend on the granularity you wan't rollback on < 1363637568 947285 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: interpreter threads, not OS threads < 1363637576 426968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it with OS threads too but I don't want to try < 1363637578 978760 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean OS ones < 1363637615 316113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems a bit wasteful of pid namespace < 1363637628 103179 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 32-bit on linux? < 1363637639 919470 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be 16-bit, and many programs still assume that so it's the default < 1363637644 89183 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the kernel supports 32-bit too < 1363637645 859763 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363637654 847494 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably as an option < 1363637683 344960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems a bit wasteful of things in general. (Sure, sure, copy-on-write, but there's still quite a lot of things in a process.) < 1363637708 623581 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone in here ever heard of someone who goes by the pseudonym "simpson"? < 1363637728 891475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Linux lets you choose how much to copy when you create a process < 1363637733 813502 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's not just the programs; seeing six-digits-or-more numbers in ps is confusing for a person, too. < 1363637739 625301 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know someone called Simpson who gets called "simpy" < 1363637742 434011 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pid_t on my system is a signed 32-bit value. < 1363637747 583231 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why is it signed < 1363637759 319457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: for signalling process groups < 1363637760 624666 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But what's your /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max? < 1363637760 876650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Because kill can take a negative argument? < 1363637760 876848 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: is this by any chance the simpson who is active at #python too? < 1363637766 663595 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest, doubtful < 1363637779 524963 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :(09:12:34 PM) simpson: AnotherTest: No, it's funny because I hack esoteric languages all the time and write compilers for fun. :3 < 1363637780 579828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mine is 2^15 exactly.) < 1363637790 889439 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Blah, it is 2^15. < 1363637809 921496 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: this may be a lost estoterican < 1363637823 721722 :lahwran!lahwran@unaffiliated/lahwran QUIT :Changing host < 1363637823 941236 :lahwran!lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1363637838 261629 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen simpson < 1363637842 279591 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen simpson ever < 1363637851 687058 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen simpson ever < 1363637851 986911 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen simpson ever < 1363637866 210636 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1363637866 433182 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1363637875 621065 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, not that HE remembers < 1363637878 340300 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen lament < 1363637883 210436 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen lament ever < 1363637888 340205 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen lament ever < 1363637894 30515 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-07-18 18:17:18: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1363637908 95523 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's quite describing < 1363637913 489058 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: PID_MAX_LIMIT in my random grep-kernel (3.something, anyway; haven't been building kernels lately) is a value that's not 2^31-1; in fact, it's a rather complicated value. < 1363637918 983818 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament laments, who'd've thought < 1363637922 277148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: he is in #haskell. < 1363637929 841340 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is in #haskell? < 1363637931 2301 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: simspon? < 1363637934 49246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, simpson. < 1363637934 845305 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's (CONFIG_BASE_SMALL ? PAGE_SIZE * 8 : (sizeof(long) > 4 ? 4 * 1024 * 1024 : PID_MAX_DEFAULT)), where PID_MAX_DEFAULT is (CONFIG_BASE_SMALL ? 0x1000 : 0x8000). < 1363637938 909034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais523 < 1363637940 756765 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not simspon. < 1363637942 929047 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-03-18 20:18:58: `seen ais523 < 1363637948 105416 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1363637951 478691 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais523_ < 1363637954 991019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there's a comment saying "A maximum of 4 million PIDs should be enough for a while." on top. < 1363637955 200003 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-02-17 15:53:28: it's nice to have an OS such that your computer can overheat, crash, and restart before you ping out from IRC < 1363637959 971769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais523__ < 1363637963 875593 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen ais523__ ever < 1363637969 80850 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais523__ ever < 1363637973 115913 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais521 < 1363637975 794480 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2011-03-31 15:54:19: indeed, it is < 1363637976 235935 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen ais521 ever < 1363637978 927147 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen slbkbs ever < 1363637979 229691 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1363637987 432714 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais512 ever < 1363637991 34696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can only raise /proc/sys/kernel/pid_max to 4194304. < 1363637991 247020 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1363637993 137830 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1363638000 327086 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ais521 ever < 1363638001 289162 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1363638003 506636 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-12-17 20:15:57: Oops < 1363638013 124333 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1363638026 941169 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was that me or someone else < 1363638030 425529 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is such a random number < 1363638033 953894 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was me, actually < 1363638048 167665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It "should be enough for a while", though. < 1363638075 239780 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, true, mine is at 32768. Which is the default 16-bit thingy again I presume < 1363638086 620266 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't had an issue so far < 1363638115 665518 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1363638135 838404 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: There's a pidmap[] array, the size of which is related to pid_max, which might explain why it's not completely unlimited. < 1363638181 93358 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there a /proc/sys/kernel/hostname, and what is it doing in that directory? < 1363638189 721868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%x", 4194304); < 1363638194 522592 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :400000 < 1363638198 663849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not that random < 1363638203 507230 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: the kernel maintains its own idea of the hostname < 1363638208 423678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is used at least by the uname system call < 1363638209 845426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also some other default that relates pid_max to the number of processors, with PIDS_PER_CPU_DEFAULT being 1024 -- to match "original pid max of 32k for 32 cpus" -- and PIDS_PER_CPU_MIN of 8, presumably for sanity reasons. < 1363638227 954020 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that allows you to get at it, and maybe change it, without having to use a separate program like uname(1) < 1363638239 383281 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good argument. < 1363638257 723564 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't think uname can set the hostname, so you'd need /another/ separate program to set it < 1363638301 715432 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which probably exists in section 8 somewhere but I don't know what it's called offhand < 1363638322 144745 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:36:34: coppro: hungarian ő is basically like german ö but a bit longer < 1363638325 740572 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:36:47: whereas hungarian ö is like german ö but a bit shorter < 1363638333 671183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um german has length distinction in vowels too < 1363638333 892105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :pid_max is adjusted to be min(PID_MAX_LIMIT, max(pid_max, PIDS_PER_CPU_DEFAULT * num_possible_cpus())) right before the pid-bitmap is allocated. < 1363638353 751533 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well yes < 1363638417 906911 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux actually supports running different processes with different ideas of what the hostname is < 1363638424 237251 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :clone(CLONE_NEWUTS) < 1363638443 38667 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1363638447 405100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's all kinds of separatable namespaces these days, what with all the container-brouhaha. < 1363638449 713548 :pikhq!~pikhq@75-163-219-9.clsp.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1363638464 759173 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I used that in Web of Lies, then forgot about it < 1363638476 46736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I remembered again < 1363638491 270369 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course you can have multiple PID namespaces. < 1363638493 962784 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think hostname sets it? < 1363638496 758267 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :the command that is < 1363638507 73288 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would make sense < 1363638533 200196 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, though my hostname is dragon according to the file, and hostname, but hostname -f lists dragon.lan < 1363638550 504019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new hotness is that unprivileged users can now use these various namespaces < 1363638558 597885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and hostname -A hangs?? < 1363638559 53087 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: ooh, really < 1363638563 56579 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is currently a great source of privilege escalation holes < 1363638563 490118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long before weboflies doesn't have to be root? < 1363638567 449185 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1363638567 786163 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it is just slow < 1363638573 973213 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The FQDN is the name getaddrinfo(3) returns for the host name returned by gethostname(2)"; that's where hostname -f comes from. < 1363638574 374585 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lists dragon.lan < 1363638580 549333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have only been following this via spender's rants on twitter < 1363638604 339199 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it feels a bit weird for a program to be able to plausibly claim to be init without even being root < 1363638624 353244 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how even the actor is half-convinced, even though he knows the truth < 1363638639 717357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : um german has length distinction in vowels too <-- like Swedish you mean? < 1363638641 144218 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1363638647 476339 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and norwegian. < 1363638650 505212 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363638651 758001 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1363638652 604235 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese too. < 1363638659 405483 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I once convinced a woman that I was Kevin Costner, and it worked because *I* believed it!" < 1363638663 525482 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how so? sandboxing ought to be safe and freely available for non-privileged users < 1363638685 253495 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it can feel weird without being a bad idea < 1363638698 284491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : which is currently a great source of privilege escalation holes <-- heh really? < 1363638708 845347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: oh. in context, that should be like hungarian actually. < 1363638719 274 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh okay < 1363638744 584348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : I love how even the actor is half-convinced, even though he knows the truth <-- is there a context to this? < 1363638755 976082 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, that reminds me, I need to watch Waterworld < 1363638756 649944 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, Space Cadets < 1363638761 309696 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a context to anything sgeo says < 1363638789 235809 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, sometimes there's a context when he says "^list" < 1363638792 117499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : it feels a bit weird for a program to be able to plausibly claim to be init without even being root <-- pure user space qemu can easily do this. An LD_PRELOAD hack could claim it to another program as well < 1363638793 704716 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: pop tarts < 1363638802 346741 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: qemu's a VM, it doesn't count :) < 1363638807 819994 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And UML? < 1363638808 769767 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1363638812 43292 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_PRELOAD, I'll give you that (although it's not 100% reliable) < 1363638822 755700 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually weboflies could claim to be init without actually being init < 1363638825 891431 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by rewriting PIDs < 1363638828 309930 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, whatever valgrind does would work too < 1363638832 559163 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't really fit in with its philosophy < 1363638836 375723 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not exactly LD_PRELOAD only iirc < 1363638839 811335 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that is involved < 1363638860 636914 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valgrind doesn't even touch LD_PRELOAD. < 1363638863 428038 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :can LD_PRELOAD be used to insert a new and improved vsyscall page/dso/whatchamacallit? < 1363638865 695648 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really? < 1363638866 317176 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1363638877 528356 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hrrm... probably not < 1363638884 732411 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is kind of special isn't it? < 1363638901 145293 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It compiles the binary to a specialized IR, runs transformations on the resulting IR, and then JITs. < 1363638902 442054 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how did you handle the vdso btw? I forgot < 1363638917 565008 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1363638923 17439 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1363638925 570821 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that I never claimed that web of lies actually /works/ < 1363638929 254746 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363638933 248681 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1363638951 411750 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, worked any further on it since it was revealed? < 1363638972 57879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a modified ELF interpreter you could just link your own vDSO substitut < 1363638975 677576 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, speaking of JITs. Jitfunge? What happened to it < 1363638990 799467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: since it was /revealed/? yes; last several months? no < 1363638991 325468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it is inserted into static binaries too < 1363638992 811108 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1363638995 199161 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1363638998 96994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was working on it as it was revealed < 1363639002 80048 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1363639011 755622 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but very few static binaries are going to parse the vDSO and use things from it, afaik < 1363639016 460642 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe static glibc does, i dunno < 1363639021 759170 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a different story on i386 < 1363639029 371864 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :static glibc does weird stuff < 1363639038 329008 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the address of one of the vDSO entry points (for system calls) is passed directly in an ELF auxv < 1363639055 427869 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on amd64 only the start of the vDSO ELF image is passed, for use by the dynamic loader < 1363639066 820050 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363639076 617829 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an example program somewhere in the Linux source tree for parsing that ELF and using functions from a static binary < 1363639081 954425 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is interesting < 1363639084 194499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that hard, but i don't know if anyone does it < 1363639095 250864 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, well ld.so itself probably does < 1363639100 647052 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1363639103 712157 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ld.so is a static binary after all < 1363639106 127062 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ld.so need to make fast gettimeofday calls < 1363639117 898366 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I meant on i386 < 1363639133 970816 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make system calls in general? it wouldn't need to, it could just use that entry point that's passed < 1363639139 603097 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess static glibc uses the gettimeofday call < 1363639161 617484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they decided it's OK to make it somewhat difficult for static binaries to use fast gettimeofday etc, but not OK to make it difficult for them to make syscalls on i386 < 1363639170 278182 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363639191 905637 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Breaking kernel ABI is generally considered a bad thing. < 1363639200 971059 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1363639226 77523 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still run Linux 1.0 binaries on a modern system. < 1363639244 520197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah Linux is fanatical about that < 1363639246 496071 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to their detriment < 1363639269 86903 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :on average it's a good thing < 1363639271 195854 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a ton of compatibility cruft in the kernel and it's a perpetual source of bugs and security holes < 1363639281 164992 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would be nice to do a prune < 1363639288 186050 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Userspace has a bit worse compatibility cruft. < 1363639295 263639 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously, 32-bit off_t should DIE in a FIRE. < 1363639296 80844 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1363639296 530600 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: i don't know, there is the Windows alternative where the kernel ABI is kept clean and modern, and programs are supposed to dynamically link libc etc < 1363639310 155555 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: dynamically linking libc is not a kernel thing < 1363639349 5080 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: the Windows kernel team is also responsible for the libc < 1363639361 907563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the libc is the only documented/approved way to communicate with the kernel < 1363639371 265598 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in general Windows considers it part of the kernel < 1363639372 620330 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it isn't on Windows < 1363639373 950947 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1363639375 386762 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux < 1363639381 107117 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1363639390 764417 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it shouldn't be because fuck glibc ;) ) < 1363639391 495196 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Seriously, 32-bit off_t should DIE in a FIRE. <-- That is gone on 64-bit systems afaik? < 1363639393 204964 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm saying they could change that < 1363639401 353075 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from multi arch obviously < 1363639402 245896 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I guess moving the ABI outside the real kernel is nice, but they still have an ABI in those dlls they can't change < 1363639402 769192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, exactly, fuck glibc, Linux team can make their own libc < 1363639407 381638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah < 1363639412 664559 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no free lunch if you want binary compat < 1363639415 586286 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh what's wrong with glibc < 1363639419 218015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have multiple versions of that libc though < 1363639422 824650 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the devs are morons < 1363639424 268029 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sc5.fi/2013/03/sc5-pays-salaries-in-bitcoin/ < 1363639432 97778 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :drepper is not a moron but definitely an asshole < 1363639443 624783 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drepper's the only one i know of and he seems smart if a jerk yes < 1363639450 565766 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :though he doesn't work on it any more, does he? < 1363639451 273101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's rather bright, I enjoyed a lot of his whitepapers (published by Red Hat) regarding linkers, futex, etc < 1363639452 864984 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :drepper doesnt work on glibc any more does he < 1363639455 721465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really < 1363639460 886537 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc red hat fired him < 1363639461 696891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1363639470 515052 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drepper totally left glibc. < 1363639477 332120 :Taneb!~nathan@host-84-13-68-168.opaltelecom.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363639478 470641 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i want specifics < 1363639485 562776 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been having a major series of compliance bugfixes of late. < 1363639486 759287 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the devs are morons" could have so many exciting consequences < 1363639565 974262 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's quite bright, but not a good choice of maintainer. < 1363639573 255851 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving emulation and support of old APIs out of the kernel does have the advantage of reducing the amount of code running at elevated privileges though < 1363639586 490032 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but Linux has never really been interested in that < 1363639588 868134 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or in security in general < 1363639594 459315 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1363639596 886827 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the upstream kernel devs are actively hostile to security < 1363639602 368228 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1363639607 242954 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes little sense < 1363639619 991740 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they intentionally obfuscate regarding which commits are security-relevant < 1363639640 22022 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestin < 1363639643 63758 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if Linus fixes a trivially exploited root hole, the commit message is usually 4 paragraphs of irrelevant blather < 1363639646 83707 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg http://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/commit/?id=799c10559d60f159ab2232203f222f18fa3c4a5f < 1363639648 134974 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how's SELinux or w/e work? < 1363639652 22215 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :poorly < 1363639658 717602 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1363639667 932147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about their attitude toward bugfixes, not grand frameworks < 1363639671 597383 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know as much about the latter < 1363639676 539984 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that based on the idea that the fixes will expose security holes that linux has had or something? < 1363639682 957873 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me < 1363639690 994000 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that commit doesn't mention security at all other than the site of the reporter. lol. < 1363639695 157653 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's correct < 1363639698 272906 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just that they don't care about figuring out whether their bugfix fixed something exploitable? < 1363639700 926763 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :security shouldn't be mentioned until a fixed release is pushed < 1363639730 218588 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the amount of time it takes for changes to filter from mainline to distros, it would be irresponsible to say "this fixes a root exploit" in commit logs < 1363639742 584510 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1363639750 896116 :pikhq_!~pikhq@174-24-29-1.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Security fixes in particular filter from mainline to distros in the course of hours. < 1363639757 587710 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, heh < 1363639760 223211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: so instead let's make the kernel team of each distro reverse-engineer the intent of upstream? < 1363639769 460139 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, only the last paragraph mentions security at all < 1363639780 142476 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there is a *private* channel for these things, either < 1363639781 987164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then not directly < 1363639786 517445 :sirdancealot!~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1363639786 727584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just dump fixes and you're supposed to figure out what's relevant < 1363639800 743883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some fixes do get tagged with CVE numbers, but not reliably < 1363639804 990085 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ksplice wasn't invited to the secret privtae cahnnel < 1363639808 508797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :insufficiently cool < 1363639900 956637 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe :( < 1363639926 292601 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that mysterious secret privtae cahnnel? < 1363640006 518263 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't tell you it's secret < 1363640031 297183 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The guy running SC5 is technically an acquaintance (or at least once removed) from the university. And the bitcoin thing was mentioned by the news media. < 1363640039 145024 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oracle could do lots of evil if they got told about security issues < 1363640114 748595 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes evil oracle < 1363640142 214167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh right, one of the most confusing/surprising things I've seen: two people from different schools in a chemistry competition started talking < 1363640147 635978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what Oracle does, the Internet hates them for it < 1363640158 14756 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and never having met before, nonetheless deduced that they had a friend of a friend in common < 1363640164 494947 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. four degrees of separation < 1363640165 656033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Red Hat obfuscates their kernel patches to make it harder for Oracle to compete, it's somehow Oracle's fault < 1363640179 209235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the surprise is not in the degree of separation, but in the fact that they managed to work it out < 1363640263 97837 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: did they work it out independently? that would be more impressive < 1363640291 229128 :dbelange!yevunye@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric kernel patches < 1363640301 453981 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: via communicating with each other < 1363640310 737635 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also not sure what possessed them to start working it out < 1363640345 441044 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i think i'm missing out on "hacker culture" when y'all talk about oracle being evil or whatever but then i notice it seems kind of terrible < 1363640380 360392 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there are multiple such cultures, some of which are terrible < 1363640401 506289 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's reasonable evidence for oracle being dubious, at least, so it depends on how much you care < 1363640413 544766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's actually a whole forum on tdwtf for oracle-bashing < 1363640417 57147 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't claim Oracle is not evil < 1363640424 475144 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was added mostly as a joke < 1363640435 975256 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Google / Apple / Microsoft / etc. are also pretty evil < 1363640438 639818 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :big companies tend to be evil < 1363640451 403670 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kmc evil < 1363640467 304674 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft is at least reasonably consistent < 1363640469 590999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes "hacker culture" is a cesspool < 1363640487 916590 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Apple is fairly consistent too, no? < 1363640489 896720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: what culture are you talking about, specifically? some examples would help < 1363640495 458129 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, patents patents patents < 1363640498 899013 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh I rant about it enough as is < 1363640500 674207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's more recent < 1363640506 857749 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1363640640 738154 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gkoberger.github.com/stacksort/ < 1363640650 522759 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: already seen it from reddit < 1363640660 241247 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I was planning to implement an esolang like that < 1363640669 377866 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except instead of doing sorting, you'd give it a number as the prorgam < 1363640670 103732 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you like running arbitrary code in your browser," DO I < 1363640671 45340 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*program < 1363640687 904961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd take the majority opinion of submissions to the matching anarchy golf program < 1363640692 260467 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, problem < 1363640696 136163 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy damn, it actually works < 1363640709 318879 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :after 30 tries < 1363640718 666904 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you run arbitrary third-party code in your browser every time you view an advert that isn't just a static image or text < 1363640733 445925 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's why i didn't really care (though i have those blocked usually) < 1363640757 163939 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't allow that. NoScript. < 1363640784 438917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :This thing is probably safer than ads though < 1363640785 757708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: indeed, many people don't allow that, but most people do < 1363640816 614040 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live dangerously < 1363641212 850863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : whereas there is one former-regular who was south african < 1363641238 894658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has been at least one new zealander too < 1363641262 664637 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackego < 1363641265 645404 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, OK < 1363641292 102135 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm, who? < 1363641416 355915 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm who was it again < 1363641508 857712 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastelogs monkey.*joined < 1363641521 293492 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5435 < 1363641625 725289 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, GreaseMonkey < 1363641637 934662 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen GreaseMonkey ever < 1363641644 539350 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :2012-01-12 23:09:25: multitasking < 1363641733 419047 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, him. < 1363641975 731035 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :was there ever a her here? < 1363642005 321305 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a her"? < 1363642009 326269 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I won't even ask for itses. every bot has its own bot here.) < 1363642077 417864 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you have your own bot? < 1363642078 23715 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so there is something called " 3m". this has nothing to to but i don't < 1363642082 964614 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a her™ in the channel right now :P < 1363642095 72014 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you? < 1363642100 116736 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1363642122 814491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its not me) < 1363642198 705399 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss vixey :( < 1363642241 55576 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about lambdabot < 1363642511 420325 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nickserv says that 3m isn't taken, so presumably we can use it as the name for fungot's bot < 1363642512 684802 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what those numbers mean? riastradh ( i assume you're awake). and of course the function call, so you're probably right < 1363642534 6760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well alise uses female pronouns < 1363642567 394821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 3m isn't a number, it was a string < 1363642567 985993 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: but if stalin generates such labels, a more fnord friend of mine worked for a while while fully aware of the efficiency argument is small. if the child process < 1363642580 675473 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i guess maybe you meant 3 million by it?? < 1363642580 884048 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: not really related, but it's not really < 1363642586 767416 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1363642589 98712 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalin is such a great name fora compiler < 1363642597 249158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : there is a her™ in the channel right now :P <-- who? < 1363642606 414539 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Fiora < 1363642610 259191 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh okay < 1363642612 745339 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: q < 1363642613 47488 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we all hate windows, and all < 1363642617 564491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know there has been a few before < 1363642621 214284 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia came back also < 1363642627 630675 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has prescient accuracy < 1363642628 442 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: personally i like writing programs in single expressions. :d) tai jotenki, mut ei ainakaa < 1363642638 84950 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d), what the fuck is that < 1363642642 291332 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's speaking in tongues again... < 1363642643 287905 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: yeah, that's a trivial prob.,. neither do activists. they've all got more pressing concerns. the gc needs to be a bunch of < 1363642644 265398 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course most of the lurkers are of schrodinger's gender < 1363642663 855498 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lock the gender in a box to try to show how absurd copenhagen is? < 1363642664 155232 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of single expression, I might still have that irc bot in a single nested lambda expression in python you wrote around somewhere elliott < 1363642669 926217 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION lightly shakes fungot in a circular motion < 1363642670 543238 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: now i'm telling miss piggy about money market funds!) < 1363642677 853832 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, maybe < 1363642718 246801 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: its a smiley :d) < 1363642753 226494 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the "trying to tell whether your nose is still there by feeling it with your tongue" smiley < 1363642767 435046 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you i can't do it :( < 1363642790 56549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can < 1363642793 435877 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doing it now < 1363642794 306763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smiling < 1363642799 376472 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Given that "3m" starts with a number, I'd be kind of surprised if it were taken. < 1363642800 292046 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more of a grimace really < 1363642802 522590 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you :( < 1363642811 783496 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cf. ":leguin.freenode.net 432 * 3m :Erroneous Nickname") < 1363642811 991724 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ? < 1363642816 835864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: makes sense < 1363642833 85413 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he was addressing me < 1363642834 576666 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a really strong statement for something so minor < 1363642842 734733 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yes, that's why I'm confused rather than angry < 1363642843 516896 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i dont care that Bike said damn you to me < 1363642868 12210 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was pinged < 1363642868 807381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's the "trying to tell whether your nose is still there by feeling it with your tongue" smiley < 1363642869 17471 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : fuck you i can't do it :( < 1363642871 625901 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone? < 1363642874 115934 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh we talked about this before and i forgot < 1363642875 764853 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems impossible < 1363642881 720456 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: we were discussing diversity in channel regulars < 1363642884 74776 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, vestigial #douglasdams Finnish bits again. < 1363642885 814362 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: there was someone on Ellen a few days ago who did it < 1363642889 391447 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: and it's all bike's fault too. what a horrid person he is < 1363642894 226169 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, "Ellen"? < 1363642896 196287 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1363642900 492118 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1363642905 651973 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a chat show < 1363642908 504776 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from a name < 1363642914 24461 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: a tv show (yes, a chat show) hosted by Ellen deGeneres < 1363642914 324758 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can confirm that Bike is horrid < 1363642917 55015 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1363642919 635164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bicycle is not horrid, on the other hand < 1363642922 215134 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like interview shows except with less content in the questions < 1363642925 2967 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo Bicycle is a better name < 1363642929 976550 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Bicyclidine < 1363642936 104451 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric : can anyone? < 1363642940 398184 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :psure einstein could < 1363642943 795884 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :neurodiversity in channel regulars < 1363642956 859882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: too long < 1363642957 70922 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there are plenty of autists < 1363642959 415575 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo Bicycle < 1363642972 328120 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably at least one or two neurotypical people here? < 1363642974 518533 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1363642976 915091 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, OKAY < 1363642982 45952 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i wonder why "psychodiversity" isn't a thing but it turns out nobody even cares about neurodiversity so < 1363642983 256342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: (btw usernames gotta start witha lowercase letter but "we'll let it slide") < 1363643003 949186 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: who < 1363643004 628376 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a psychodiver like a psychonaut < 1363643009 674819 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : they're like interview shows except with less content in the questions <-- so no hard hitting journalistic questions? < 1363643012 497691 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmm I don't know < 1363643013 455928 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds boring to me < 1363643014 356491 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Guinness says the current record-holder for "longest tongue" reaches 9.75 cm (3.8 in) from top lip to tip. < 1363643024 40053 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh my god < 1363643029 667177 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm not entirely sure why they're popular < 1363643030 83486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.guinnessworldrecords.com/media/1698229/Chanel%20Tapper%20main.jpg looks like it'd have no problems reaching the nose. < 1363643030 485916 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that in a human? < 1363643050 936303 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Ellen is kinda boring, I just happened to see it on TV.< 1363644030 973217 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1363644033 641415 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Do you have anything to say for yourself? < 1363644034 12729 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i am an idiot! i am overwhelmed by the amount of < 1363644046 232626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Well, it seems quite contrite, at least. < 1363644048 155673 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1363644058 552185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1363644063 485362 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's all right, just don't let it happen again. < 1363644064 60712 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: uh, that's not what i meant < 1363644073 505394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What did you mean, then? < 1363644073 805390 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did that answer your question, and even i have that < 1363644085 695397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up. < 1363644114 306183 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs fungot < 1363644114 981864 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ( i'm not really sure what you're doing? code? < 1363644131 246502 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1363644336 425622 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1363644965 217503 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1363645172 793019 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1363645429 338480 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, cosmetics ingredients, you'll always surprise me. «Sodium Kokum Butterate». what the fungot is that. < 1363645430 86049 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: beautiful women carrying pitchers of water will come up with something < 1363646567 206595 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But the comment about separate checkouts sounds true too.) < 1363646601 117701 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ls < 1363646609 236564 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :accesslog \ a.out \ bin \ brainfuck.fu \ canary \ Category:Self-modifying \ dbg.out \ dkVb20VL \ egobot.tar.xz \ etc \ factor \ foo \ foo.err \ foo.out \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ karma \ lib \ link \ paste \ prefs \ prefs.bf \ quines \ quotes \ radio.php?out=inline&shuffle=1&limit=1&filter=*MitamineLab* \ rainbow \ sgfoobar \ share \ slist.ori < 1363646619 459288 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn comedogenic is something that causes comedy when applied to the skin, e.g. an accelerated cream pie in parabolic motion. < 1363646624 68131 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1363646627 886601 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woohoo! :D < 1363646636 182551 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1363646643 561801 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can now go eat. 'night all! < 1363646646 426166 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1363646648 947910 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1363646685 550514 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? boily < 1363646691 79155 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily is Canadian or something. We are not sure about Canada's existence. < 1363646709 447638 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed; we are sure that Ottawa exists < 1363646710 816027 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? canada < 1363646712 526402 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not 100% sure it's in Canada < 1363646713 152315 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :canada? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1363646716 577657 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think boily is the man eating chicken < 1363646753 55761 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we can't put it in wisdom until we know it exists < 1363646801 555832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run mv wisdom/ngevd . && grep -i exist wisdom/* && mv ngevd wisdom/ < 1363646811 967207 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom/boily:boily is Canadian or something. We are not sure about Canada's existence. \ wisdom/olsner:olsner seems to exist at least. < 1363646813 15881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Phantom_Hoover: no, that's norwegian <-- DON'T BE SILLY < 1363646863 156076 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what are you going to do about it? swat me? < 1363646876 658160 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Ottawa exists. < 1363646886 335027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a start, I'm not sure the plane ais523 was on actually flew to Ottawa and not some kind of fake Ottawa. < 1363646893 972625 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not sure ais523 exists, so his testimony is unreliable. < 1363646920 915968 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well, either a fake ottawa is distinguishable from a real ottawa, or indistinguishable < 1363646930 936149 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's just define Ottawa as whatever he flew to < 1363646936 128580 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's indistinguishable, then it's reasonably philosophically an ottawa < 1363646941 635790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: exactly < 1363646950 858770 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's distinguishable by not being the real ottawa, by definition < 1363646972 656545 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, there's no proof that the plane landed in canada < 1363647000 546354 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I have enough of a grasp of geography, combined with looking out of the windows a lot, to suspect that it's at least approximately geographically in the area where Canada is rumoured to be < 1363647031 676407 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also, as for not being sure I exist: the alternative is that someone invented me, and that thought is horrifying < 1363647044 387342 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :point < 1363647055 916832 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, but if someone invented you, you would exist < 1363647157 206671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: hmm < 1363647167 366263 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, with all this talking about whether canada exists or not, haven't we invented canada? < 1363647168 560474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well doesn't the fact that I accidentally assumed I exist < 1363647171 261414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean that I'm not lying about it? < 1363647183 986003 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: do we know enough about Canada to be able to invent it via mere description? < 1363647211 606744 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the salient facts about it are that it's rumoured to exist, there are esolangers who claim to be aware of it (even inside it), and that it's won Agora < 1363647267 587158 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how much do you need to know about something in order to invent it? do we have to know that we invented it? do we have to know its name even? < 1363647290 406736 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you need to be able to come up with plausible replies to questions about it < 1363647295 456512 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I don't know" stops being plausible after a while < 1363647302 807206 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe these concerns are adequately addressed in Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius < 1363647351 756691 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we could apply an ontological argument type thing < 1363647365 376061 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :canada is the greatest thing, something is greater if it really exists as opposed to just being rumoured to exist... < 1363647379 167086 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps all we need to do is agree that it is more canadian for something to exist than for it not to exist < 1363647384 76784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and obviously, canada is maximally canadian < 1363647419 350015 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: this reminds me of the argument that god must exist due to being defined as having all positive properties, including existence < 1363647478 341549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked Raymond Smullyan's arguments about that! < 1363647491 342225 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i somehow think that canada would become more canadian the less it exists < 1363647504 797186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that's the ontological argument... < 1363647520 235851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: wow, it actually has a /name/? < 1363647531 266061 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I probably learned about it from Smullyan < 1363647532 406506 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, Gödel even made his own version < 1363647539 596628 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it strikes me as not particularly convincing < 1363647555 128093 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone made a version < 1363647561 15712 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a popular argument < 1363647571 220372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smullyan called it that. < 1363647574 766919 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in _5000 B.C._ < 1363647577 966105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :He had some fun variations. < 1363647579 887547 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "the argument does not, to a modern mind, seem very convincing, but it is easier to feel convinced that it must be fallacious than it is to find out precisely where the fallacy lies" -- Bertrand Russell -- Wikipedia < 1363647605 916665 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of famouse people after russell worked with it < 1363647619 636475 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the problem is that it's a circular argument < 1363647632 466137 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1363647635 426548 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order for it even to matter that something has particular properties, it first has to exist < 1363647645 56306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "matter"? < 1363647666 496169 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i define unicorns as horses with horns that exist < 1363647675 245871 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, unicorns exist < 1363647720 823252 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: if something doesn't exist, then the universe is the same regardless of what properties it would have if it existed < 1363647740 340176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: that doesn't really match the structure of the ontological argument at all < 1363647745 675411 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: imo everything exists < 1363647762 706296 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, you don't even assert that the definition of unicorns implies that unicorns necessarily exist < 1363647793 136731 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does < 1363647794 486417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i smell curry's paradox < 1363647797 497704 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it says "they exist" < 1363647800 106243 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right in the definition < 1363647809 806466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: which one is that? < 1363647817 887077 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "If this sentence is true then 1=0" < 1363647821 357970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think the ontological argument is like Curry's paradox, really < 1363647838 306311 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying there aren't good arguments against it but I don't think these are it :P < 1363647838 514672 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Existence is not a property that some things have and some things don't. < 1363647840 831561 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: right < 1363647864 126612 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't the case that there are unicorns, but none of them have the property of existence. < 1363647867 58223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are just no unicorns. < 1363647868 466579 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :immanuel shachaf < 1363647871 776894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry's paradox is logically equivalent to epimenides' paradox, isn't it? < 1363647888 287487 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think it's more what you call "god" in the argument is equivalent to "idea_of_god" < 1363647898 277404 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: who are you kidding? ALL unicorns have the property of existence < 1363647899 30257 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the predicate of it existing means that "something which matches this idea exists". < 1363647931 936665 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arc_Koen: that statement is one I think everyone agrees with < 1363647942 997044 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, hmm < 1363647950 297026 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :all unicorns have all properties? < 1363647981 346149 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Equivalent why? < 1363647999 442014 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because P = P -> Q ---> P = !P || Q? < 1363648001 797468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the closest I could get to what I was looking for is "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fictional_ungulates" < 1363648017 586842 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good list < 1363648022 335700 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't think everyone accepts that every element of the empty set has all properties < 1363648043 556164 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to find a list of fictional unicorns < 1363648044 35278 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I think paraconsistent type stuff might avoid that? < 1363648065 258658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :paranormal logic < 1363648069 196060 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Everyone knows that dragons don't exist. But while this simplistic < 1363648069 404448 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :formulation may satisfy the layman, it does not suffice for the scientific < 1363648069 404545 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind. The School of Higher Neantical Nillity is in fact wholly unconcerned < 1363648069 404596 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with what ____does exist. Indeed, the banality of existence has been < 1363648069 404640 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so amply demonstrated, there is no need for us to discuss it any further < 1363648071 697276 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here. The brilliant Cerebron, attacking the problem analytically, < 1363648074 156496 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovered three distinct kinds of dragon: the mythical, the chimerical, < 1363648076 613531 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the purely hypothetical. They were all, one might say, nonexistent, < 1363648079 256246 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but each nonexisted in an entirely different way ... < 1363648080 496338 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Wikipedia appears not to list them < 1363648081 697182 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- Stanislaw Lem, "Cyberiad" < 1363648084 193707 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :-oh < 1363648101 16449 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: no copyvios, please < 1363648111 574329 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1363648139 597414 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1363648140 626775 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legendary_creatures_by_type < 1363648148 947630 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicorn is listed under "Fertility and human sexuality" < 1363648156 846109 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg my innocence :o < 1363648161 34790 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: the innuendos are far too easy < 1363648170 664602 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borges commented, "Not granting me the Nobel Prize has become a Scandinavian tradition; since I was born they have not been granting it to me." < 1363648225 217177 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1363648227 386388 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that he's dead, are we still observing the tradition or did that become impossible? < 1363648258 340555 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: now I'm reminded of the headmaster at my secondary school attempting to create traditions via decree < 1363648270 756640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the decree is effective enough, it might eventually become a tradition < 1363648277 246540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't immediately cause something to become a tradition < 1363648373 437520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how do you know that unicorns exist? well, have you ever seen a unicorn that /doesn't/ exist?" < 1363648408 155612 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you make that up now or is it a quote? < 1363648420 306439 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: possibly both < 1363648432 667593 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a direct quote of anything, but it may have been influenced by things I saw in the past < 1363648447 156524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything you say has been influenced by things you saw in the past. < 1363648455 696989 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1363648479 56236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if he doesn't exist, can he have seen things in the past? < 1363648487 446899 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::ꙮ < 1363648509 494384 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouth full of bees :'( < 1363648528 533807 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :beard of bees gone wrong < 1363648534 296491 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :beerd < 1363648542 857776 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-¦ꙮ < 1363648556 337013 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouthless alien with two eyes and eight brains < 1363648577 96704 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dQtFpuylpA < 1363648581 647638 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bee bearding is the practice of wearing several hundred thousand honey bees on the face, usually as a sideshow-type demonstration at agricultural shows. < 1363648585 788938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Several hundred thousand?! < 1363648602 906733 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that just means a hive < 1363648616 478320 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hives are pretty big < 1363648624 418101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. bees are pretty small < 1363648659 146445 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are very small if you squash them < 1363648729 806156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you squash some, the rest will go into a rage iiuc, which is a bad idea if you are using them for your beard. < 1363648778 407394 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well wearing bees strikes me as a bad idea in the first place < 1363648779 606229 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you squash them before guing them to your chin < 1363648789 158839 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a commercial grade bee squasher < 1363648799 87001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would recommend against it < 1363648810 250414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so one should beware of wearing bees? < 1363648811 567651 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than wearing nothing at all < 1363648825 486858 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo wearing nothing at all is preferable to wearing bees < 1363648832 666382 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :crass < 1363648843 506692 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lewd < 1363648846 647933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1363648940 148653 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wearing bees is worth it just for the puns < 1363648954 428176 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be weary of that < 1363648991 366391 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://totallycoolpix.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/23072011_coolest_pix_week_29/week29_022.jpg < 1363649004 756713 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea what that display says < 1363649015 306322 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a bee counter < 1363649033 127909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not a fan of bees on a personal level. < 1363649039 662998 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it's counting down time or something < 1363649045 806411 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bees are your friends though < 1363649050 906146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let them bee if they let me be. < 1363649068 497444 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmt: shachaf doesn't _want_ to befriend them < 1363649071 256928 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it counts down and then displays BEEEES < 1363649079 166625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to beefriend them < 1363649079 616471 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it is a scale < 1363649089 539444 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wang won the competition after attracting 26 kg (57 lbs) of bees on his body in 60 minutes < 1363649113 87063 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does warring weary bees compare to wearing wary bees? < 1363649121 797126 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: um... < 1363649142 27845 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1363649145 940687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a beesolang < 1363649150 25941 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i had some bees, i would bee your friend < 1363649160 337861 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it could be like that ant problem from ICFP < 1363649175 306729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes, although that one seems kind-of limited < 1363649195 276890 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we did that one in school except the prof came up with a strange variation < 1363649208 516947 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an ant is surrounded, it dies and turns into 6 food < 1363649214 311892 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would that have a busy bee function < 1363649219 195029 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but additionally, you can drop 1 food on the middle of your ant hill and get 1 new ant < 1363649228 576655 :Borgrel!~chatzilla@41-134-128-73.dsl.mweb.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1363649238 352248 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the winning strategy is... < 1363649248 180300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to play? < 1363649248 752334 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZipList fs <*> ZipList xs = ZipList (zipWith id fs xs) < 1363649261 106847 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any particular reason to use id instead of ($)? < 1363649270 429594 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) seems like it describes the intent more < 1363649286 796555 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: hardly < 1363649291 576896 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :id is more efficient < 1363649294 608736 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By one character.) < 1363649295 526864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) is the same as id, right? < 1363649298 77246 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, hmm < 1363649300 776610 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let ego = id < 1363649302 777118 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1363649303 376488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious I'm just not thinking atm < 1363649310 63034 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, with a different type. < 1363649311 787019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not sure which way it's obvious < 1363649314 472089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: if you use spaces where you don't have to < 1363649315 749519 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) is type restricted id < 1363649321 256998 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, only works on functions < 1363649339 147170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also this variation: ($) !f = \x -> f x < 1363649342 577753 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this reminded me of someone talking about Verity's potential issues with accepting incorrect code < 1363649352 58086 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone accidentally wrote bitwise OR (|) rather than parallel composition (||) < 1363649354 866610 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"($)" saves one character compared to " id " < 1363649362 916872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it didn't reject it because it treats commands as 0-bit numbers < 1363649363 126018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :truelsner < 1363649369 367313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it knows how to bitwise OR those < 1363649379 243447 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::x < 1363649380 427540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the synthesizer complained that it didn't < 1363649384 572270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is interesting, I guess < 1363649387 67596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is verity the categorical dual of coverity < 1363649390 867079 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably add a specific error message for that < 1363649393 867640 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`welcome Borgrel < 1363649396 356894 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't think so, although that would be interesting < 1363649399 368570 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Borgrel: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) < 1363649414 259614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like algol disguised as not-algol, with a particularly hardware-focused set of primitives < 1363649421 717161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, sorry from derailing you from your game < 1363649424 598752 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: isn't ($) defined as f $ x = f x? < 1363649425 876909 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: would that be something that hides bugs in code instead of finding them? < 1363649427 37784 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the winning strategy? < 1363649428 456206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (undefined $) `seq` () < 1363649430 376474 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : () < 1363649434 738497 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"algol disguised as not-algol" <-- like every imperative language am i rite < 1363649436 140916 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not id. :( < 1363649436 436447 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Yes. That's why it's a variation. < 1363649440 557200 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well in game semantics you're not trying to win < 1363649443 117883 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but you said < 1363649443 326052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reach the end of the game < 1363649445 847812 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ($) is the same as id, right? < 1363649448 367645 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: Yes, with a different type. < 1363649452 30784 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1363649461 579278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rude to show your ⊥ in public < 1363649462 847495 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (undefined id) `seq` () < 1363649464 478560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1363649472 991720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well most imperative languages don't disguise themselves as ML < 1363649475 827498 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what verity seems to do < 1363649479 217223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you have that backwards < 1363649483 813848 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (id undefined) `seq` () < 1363649485 462662 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1363649491 207161 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1363649491 727113 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it makes a difference, but… < 1363649499 57083 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it does, the test wouldn't work otherwise < 1363649504 130676 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the broken test produced the same result as the correct test < 1363649513 537414 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (undefined `id`) `seq` () < 1363649515 156789 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1363649522 239466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, didn't know Haskell would let me do that < 1363649536 21476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems like a minor technique in writing obfuscated Haskell < 1363649556 787891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, sections of non-operators? < 1363649584 328609 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1363649592 637642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like currying just backwards < 1363649606 956588 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (`id`) < 1363649608 728527 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:6: parse error on input `)' < 1363649613 547207 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I can't section it both ways < 1363649618 816859 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I consider that a bug in Haskell. :-( < 1363649620 846474 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 4 `(+)` 5 < 1363649622 471420 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:4: parse error on input `(' < 1363649625 666900 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1363649632 997104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish `expression` worked. < 1363649633 643012 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`` takes an identifier, not an expression. < 1363649634 998715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it's ambiguous. < 1363649635 207443 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `: not found < 1363649641 77203 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: SORRY < 1363649650 18150 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: clearly you need directed quotes < 1363649661 487431 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :‘(+)’ < 1363649665 837209 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or alternatively, both ` and “ < 1363649669 887245 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC Haskell papers usually do that < 1363649670 576922 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: `(...)` wouldn't be ambiguous < 1363649671 44943 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Isn't it great when you don't have to write parentheses somewhere? < 1363649678 656901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it would be ugly. < 1363649680 386692 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like matching on (a, x:xs) < 1363649682 198708 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: yeah, because LaTeX does that by default and it's awkward to tell it not to < 1363649693 97534 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think I've had a good example of `f x` being useful before < 1363649700 224437 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe involving a higher-order function f < 1363649729 867535 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just only allow nesting if you use parens. < 1363649733 709808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i like to use (`f` x) rather than flip f x sometimes < 1363649745 786862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so `...`...`...` nests iff you have ( in the first ... and ) in the last. < 1363649748 477996 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`f` x) > flip f x < 1363649751 196986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip = the devil < 1363649778 167184 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `compare (`on`) fst` y < 1363649796 825945 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: that's compare on fst < 1363649810 866666 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `(`on`) compare fst` y < 1363649829 99615 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the ()s were "nesting" < 1363649835 850115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :x `comparing fst` y < 1363649850 156938 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: hmm, good point < 1363649855 141797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I meant was you'd do < 1363649857 767662 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`(compare `on` fst)` < 1363649859 78478 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: (compare: not found < 1363649861 856342 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot (`f`) is a thing < 1363649868 471747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't < 1363649872 687446 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not < 1363649876 749764 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1363649884 17024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not good < 1363649891 77061 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(`f`) should be a thing < 1363650039 113284 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i scrolled up a bit and i'm tired and i read about everyone talking about how "<$> is the same as id, right?" and i thought i was going insane < 1363650064 507371 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask = id < 1363650066 613225 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :asks = id < 1363650068 278550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) = id < 1363650072 226753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1,2) & compare `on` fst $ (3,4) < 1363650074 167884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Precedence parsing error < 1363650074 376590 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : cannot mix `Data.Function.on' [infixl 0] and ... < 1363650082 877550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1363650094 527499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`on` is infixl 0 < 1363650096 189454 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: on`: not found < 1363650097 657412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (1,2) & (compare `on` fst) $ (3,4) < 1363650099 447691 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like $ < 1363650101 112297 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1363650109 278667 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love mixfix < 1363650118 608313 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it is so easy? < 1363650122 916747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott.................. < 1363650141 936628 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you made this bed shachaf. you have to lie in it. in fact I'm lying in it for you. it's comfortable < 1363650149 7478 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinky < 1363650165 277246 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (compare `on` fst) ?? (3,4) $ (1,2) < 1363650167 379196 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : LT < 1363650193 158552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :????????????????? < 1363650212 241045 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type (??) < 1363650213 267781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1363650221 927367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(??) = flip < 1363650270 140018 :Borgrel!~chatzilla@41-134-128-73.dsl.mweb.co.za PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell sounds like fun < 1363650278 967577 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got too many parentheses < 1363650282 131790 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's defined generally for functors? < 1363650303 687523 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> [sin, cos] ?? 0 < 1363650305 980870 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0.0,1.0] < 1363650306 946170 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one generalisation of flip is that. < 1363650311 868519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(r -> a -> b) -> a -> r -> b < 1363650327 707534 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1363650328 157852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other potential generalizations, of course. < 1363650340 281009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like (.) can generalised to fmap or (Control.Category..) < 1363650343 247980 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whales are ungulates and narwhals have one horn ... they must be unicorns < 1363650349 58388 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :generalerization < 1363650394 298165 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't think anyone has yet used (??) for an f that isn't ((->) r) < 1363650444 740362 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan has < 1363650461 587621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i don't see why, it's a useful addition to applicative syntax < 1363650464 497736 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you could generalize it for ((->) a) as well: (??') :: Functor f => (r -> f b) -> f (r -> b) < 1363650477 268176 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'm not saying it's inherently unuseful < 1363650491 327028 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc there's a word for "unuseful") < 1363650494 592751 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying edwardk claimed it'd be useful because lens uses (a -> f b) things all over the place and as far as I know this hasn't actually turned out to be true :P < 1363650509 967582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: hmm, that looks like Distributive < 1363650533 427543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t distribute < 1363650534 918098 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: `distribute' < 1363650535 126347 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant `distrib' (imported from Control.Lens) < 1363650562 239581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :{--} distribute (++) "abc" "def" < 1363650562 447901 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :"defabc" < 1363650565 298720 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/distributive/0.3.1/doc/html/Data-Distributive.html < 1363650569 258685 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one true generalisation of (??)???? < 1363650572 42039 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of an implementation for (??') ugh < 1363650578 802694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (??) < 1363650580 297517 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: in fact i think ?? (maybe not with that syntax) should be a Functor method, like <$ < 1363650580 506641 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => f (a -> b) -> a -> f b < 1363650587 817682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: it's not implementable < 1363650610 137784 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm you're right < 1363650615 462669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok but look at distribute. isn't that totally the best flip generalisation < 1363650634 348935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if (Functor f, Distributive g) => f (g a) -> g (f a) is doable < 1363650638 897209 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be a strict generalisation of (??) < 1363650648 967493 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait. < 1363650651 377844 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's exactly what I wrote. < 1363650657 637631 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so distribute is a strict generalisation of (??) < 1363650667 667781 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you have to promise not to tell edwardk. < 1363650689 126990 :Borgrel!~chatzilla@41-134-128-73.dsl.mweb.co.za QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90 [Pale Moon 19.0.2/20130308232348] < 1363650715 743563 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"comapM [...] The dual of mapM: comapM f = fmap f . distributeM" < 1363650719 729197 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people and your co's < 1363650729 959159 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Distributive is Cotraversable < 1363650789 985691 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would "comap f = fmap f . distribute = fmap f . flip", that sounds like a good function < 1363650825 16919 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait. i think it's actually something extremely boring < 1363650914 177180 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo this channel should do numerical analysis instead of these oneliners < 1363650930 67306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck numerical analysis < 1363650944 148292 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you have to ruin something moderately cool like analysis with numbers < 1363650973 927579 :lmt!~user_name@184.71.170.250 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck numbas < 1363650997 230032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fmap ?f . (??) < 1363650999 137684 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?f::f b1 -> b, Functor f) => f (a -> b1) -> a -> b < 1363651007 27765 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip flip = flip... < 1363651009 517063 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah < 1363651031 387734 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \f -> fmap f . (??) < 1363651032 817560 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => (f b1 -> b) -> f (a -> b1) -> a -> b < 1363651038 388759 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: flip flip is not flip < 1363651042 687898 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip < 1363651044 118469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b -> (a -> b -> c) -> a -> c < 1363651044 567325 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah < 1363651047 577529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip flip < 1363651048 381213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (??) (??) < 1363651048 969882 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> ((a1 -> b -> c1) -> b -> a1 -> c1) -> c) -> a -> c < 1363651050 147809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => a -> f (a -> b) -> f b < 1363651051 7792 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip flip flip < 1363651052 407800 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1 -> ((a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c) -> c1) -> a1 -> c1 < 1363651054 575692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip flip flip flip < 1363651055 997253 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1 -> ((a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c) -> c1) -> a1 -> c1 < 1363651060 628881 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip flip flip flip flip < 1363651062 138410 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1 -> ((a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c) -> c1) -> a1 -> c1 < 1363651064 847200 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada. < 1363651072 368554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a pattern. < 1363651081 147687 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip flip flip flip flip flip flip < 1363651082 578688 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a1 -> ((a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c) -> c1) -> a1 -> c1 < 1363651086 658081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, I was sure that would break the cycle. < 1363651088 397154 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix flip < 1363651090 47255 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-254-59.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1363651090 255653 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -> a -> c < 1363651094 467953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hi < 1363651097 687599 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1363651102 50643 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid < 1363651108 847469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (??) (??) (??) < 1363651110 999011 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Functor f1, Functor f) => f ((f1 (a -> b1) -> a -> f1 b1) -> b) -> f b < 1363651116 257500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (??) (??) (??) (??) < 1363651118 457577 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Functor f1, Functor f) => f1 ((f (a -> b) -> a -> f b) -> b1) -> f1 b1 < 1363651124 208474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (??) (??) (??) (??) (??) < 1363651126 217677 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Functor f1, Functor f) => f1 ((f (a -> b) -> a -> f b) -> b1) -> f1 b1 < 1363651130 967130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix < 1363651131 797503 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let cool f = fmap f . flip in cool (\f -> [f 1, f (f 1)]) (+) 5 < 1363651132 448899 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> a) -> a < 1363651133 957127 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : [6,11] < 1363651145 937366 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.177.19.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"cool for Prelude"