←2013-03-22 2013-03-23 2013-03-24→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:06 <Jafet> -Oshit
00:00:09 <Bike> okay this rationale page... I can't say I get it
00:00:26 <Bike> "C++ supports cleaner code in several significant cases. C++ makes it easier to write and enforce cleaner interfaces. C++ never requires uglier code." this just seems very vague?
00:00:32 <Bike> i guess namespaces at the least must help
00:00:47 <Jafet> C++ never requires uglier code than C
00:00:54 <Jafet> because it supersets C
00:00:58 <Bike> oh, they converted away gentype though
00:00:59 <Jafet> genius
00:01:07 <Sgeo> Let me see if I can find the frozen meal that I liked
00:01:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
00:01:31 <Bike> haha they'd already been doing name mangling
00:03:08 <Sgeo> I _think_ this one http://www.healthychoice.com/products/complete-meals/sesame-chicken
00:03:17 <Sgeo> I can't find instructions on it though
00:04:10 <Bike> that has literally half the sodium of that shit i ate, damn
00:04:42 <elliott> are you just made out of sodium Bike
00:04:52 <Bike> well i am right now that's for sure
00:05:02 <Sgeo> I just want to prove that these require a thermometer
00:05:06 <Bike> seriously i'm pretty sure that was more seawater than soup
00:05:40 <Bike> heh, "Asian inspired"
00:05:56 <kmc> fixed point arithemtic types for AVR
00:05:58 <Sgeo> mmm, seawter
00:06:02 <Sgeo> seawater
00:06:39 -!- doesthiswork has joined.
00:06:45 <Sgeo> Give me some bitter herbs too and I'd be happy
00:06:47 <Bike> i bet people who eat this stuff regularly get honest to god seawater poisoning
00:07:03 <kmc> if (__builtin_cpu_supports("popcnt")) { ... }
00:07:16 <Bike> kmc: ?
00:07:19 <Sgeo> What's popcnt?
00:07:20 <kmc> they added this builtin
00:07:24 <doesthiswork> are there like only 50 people on freenode?
00:07:27 <kmc> Sgeo: count the number of set bits
00:07:29 <Bike> an instruction to get the population count of a register
00:07:43 <kmc> it's the SECRET NSA INSTRUCTION THE GOVERNMENT DOESN'T WANT YOU TO KNOW ABOUT
00:07:46 <Jafet> Are there as many as 50 people
00:07:51 <kmc> but actually it counts the number of set bits
00:08:02 <Sgeo> I just want to know why kmc was pointing it out
00:08:04 <Bike> I thought gcc already had a popcnt builtin though.
00:08:21 <olsner> Bike: are you in fact that salt-eating alien from star trek?
00:08:23 <olsner> (http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/M-113_creature)
00:08:32 <Bike> "Water is considered the least toxic chemical compound, with a LD50 of 90 g/kg or more in rats." what a great sentence
00:08:32 <kmc> Bike: maybe, but this lets you conditionalize
00:08:37 <doesthiswork> Jafet: every channel I go to there is someone who's name a recognise
00:08:39 <kmc> my comment is not about popcnt, that's just an example
00:08:52 <kmc> i was pointing out the new __builtin_cpu_supports
00:08:55 <Bike> kmc: ohhhhh, you mean the builtin checking is newly available, not popcnt itself
00:09:18 <olsner> kmc: is it only compile-time check if the target supports it, or can it generate code for checking at runtime?
00:09:43 <kmc> runtime
00:09:46 <Sgeo> I want my fixed pizza
00:09:57 <kmc> but possibly it will elide if the -march=... argument guarantees it?
00:10:00 <Sgeo> > let pizza = const "So good" in fix pizza
00:10:02 <lambdabot> "So good"
00:10:08 <Bike> I didn't know x86 had a query system like that.
00:10:22 <Jafet> cpuid and a giant table
00:10:25 <Jafet> probably
00:10:27 <oerjan> :t ?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
00:10:29 <lambdabot> (?aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa::t) => t
00:10:32 <Bike> probably :/
00:10:46 <kmc> many features have bits in various CPUID results
00:10:49 <Sgeo> I WANT MY PIZZa
00:10:51 <Jafet> Or more self modifying code
00:10:53 <Sgeo> Stupid caplock
00:11:02 <olsner> Sgeo: did you send it back because it was the wrong kind?
00:11:04 <kmc> you can look at the bits of Linux kernel which compute the info that goes int /proc/cpuinfo
00:11:07 <Sgeo> olsner, planning to\
00:11:13 <Sgeo> Waiting for them to arrive
00:11:35 <olsner> wait, how do you know they're going to give you the wrong pizza?
00:12:04 <Sgeo> They already gave me the wrong pizza, I'm waiting for them to come back to give me the right one
00:12:04 <Bike> the SMC on cpuid conditionalizing in linux is pretty darn neat
00:12:19 <kmc> Bike: altinstructions?
00:12:26 <Bike> yeah
00:12:33 <kmc> yeah it's cool
00:12:38 <kmc> also the same thing for paravirt
00:14:35 <Jafet> Does that mean there are wx kernel pages
00:14:40 <Jafet> ok there are
00:15:41 <kmc> well it could modify the permissions, or add a separate writeable mapping
00:15:44 <kmc> but yes probably
00:15:47 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:15:53 <Sgeo> http://www.walmart.com/ip/Healthy-Choice-Caf-Steamers-Margherita-White-Meat-Chicken-W-Angel-Hair-Pasta-Roasted-Garlic-In-Balsamic-Vinaigrette-Sauce.-Chicken/10794658#Directions
00:16:13 <kmc> SgeoFood
00:16:18 -!- copumpkin has joined.
00:16:18 <Sgeo> Note the instructions that state it must be cooked thoroughly
00:16:58 <Bike> that sounds like something people don't actually do
00:17:31 <Sgeo> Maybe I should find different frozen meals that don't have that requirement?
00:20:02 <olsner> looks like it's something they have to put there because it contains poultry and it's sold in the US
00:20:08 <Sgeo> I like the ones with the brownie
00:20:11 <Sgeo> olsner, o.O
00:20:28 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
00:20:38 <olsner> the only sensible thing is for them to have already cooked it to like 300 degrees in the factory before putting it in the package
00:22:20 <Sgeo> 3 frozen meals in a night isn't a bad idea, is it?
00:22:21 <Sgeo> >.>
00:22:45 <pikhq_> Why, that's a great idea.
00:22:56 <Sgeo> I could use the calories >.>
00:23:20 <pikhq_> This is generally true.
00:23:40 <Bike> sgeo just, buy a cookbook or something, you're scaring me a bit.
00:23:41 <Sgeo> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/27055169/#.UUz1wp5QCeI
00:23:58 <Sgeo> "That message has been slow to catch on, despite a spate of illnesses last year from improperly microwaved frozen foods. On Sunday, the government issued a new warning urging consumers to thoroughly cook frozen chicken dinners after 32 people in 12 states were sickened with salmonella poisoning."
00:24:51 <Sgeo> I'm starting to wonder if there's a comparison between making a meal and building a computer
00:25:22 <olsner> hmm, interesting
00:26:26 <kmc> yikes
00:27:13 <Sgeo> Are there good cookbooks for gaining weight?
00:27:35 <Sgeo> o.O I joked about this in #reddit-buildapc and someone said there actually is a website
00:27:52 <olsner> buildameal?
00:28:09 <Sgeo> I asked if there's something similar to PCPartPicker for food
00:28:29 <Bike> Sgeo: There probably are, assuming you're doing it for medical/nutrition reasons.
00:30:56 -!- md_5 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds).
00:30:56 <Sgeo> I wonder if the fact that I'm hungry right now is making me think about all this stuff
00:31:53 <olsner> accepting the wrong pizza might have solved that particular problem
00:32:35 -!- md_5 has joined.
00:38:09 <kmc> why does Sgeo have the wrong pizza
00:38:22 <olsner> he doesn't, that's the problem
00:38:34 <olsner> he has no pizza at all, if I understand the situation correctly
00:40:09 <kmc> not even a None Pizza with Left Beef?
00:40:12 <kmc> (http://www.thesneeze.com/2007/the-great-pizza-orientation-test.php)
00:40:27 <Sgeo> The good pizza's here
00:40:36 <kmc> narrowly saved from starvation once again
00:40:55 <olsner> Sgeo: btw, got a good tip for checking temperature of the food from another channel: stick a (clean) finger in the food - if it hurts it's done
00:41:00 <pikhq_> Sgeo: Have you considered eating everything?
00:41:54 <Sgeo> olsner, I did have a pizza
00:41:57 <Sgeo> The wrong one
00:42:09 <Sgeo> Because the delivery person messed up, I assume
00:42:47 <olsner> ... and you gave it back?
00:43:28 <Sgeo> I gave it back when I got the correct pizza
00:44:01 <Bike> what constitutes an incorrect pizza
00:44:19 <Sgeo> Squares and mysterious topping
00:44:24 <olsner> I wonder what they did with the pizza they got back
00:44:31 <Bike> yeah fuck squares, i hate that guy too.
00:50:38 <Sgeo> "Half zine. Half blog. Half not good with fractions."
00:50:58 <pikhq_> That's a fun blog.
00:51:36 * Bike enters quote, sees "your pets are being skinned alive" in his search history
00:53:59 <olsner> the first hit is a search result page from a search that didn't find anything
00:54:13 <olsner> how does that happen?
00:55:02 <elliott> Bike: are your pets being skinned alive
00:56:28 <Bike> no but yours are i guess
00:56:50 <pikhq_> Mine are not.
00:57:06 <pikhq_> They are adorably asleep though.
00:58:05 <Sgeo> "I could tell for a week or so that Eddie didn't look good and was on his way out. I tried a few different things I read on the Internet but they didn't help. Possibly because those things were mostly cocktail recipes and reviews of cool apps I should download."
01:10:48 -!- hagb4rd has joined.
01:14:06 <oerjan> i'll have a Just Pizza with (GT, Pepperoni) please
01:14:58 <kmc> haha
01:15:33 <kmc> what about a pizzo38
01:15:35 <zzo38> When I try to run Icarus Verilog it says it cannot find something in the DLL.
01:16:17 <oerjan> kmc: i fear that may contain gopher meat
01:16:41 <kmc> haha
01:16:46 <kmc> how do you know gopher meat is bad
01:16:46 <oerjan> also it has plain tex without mex
01:16:53 <kmc> hahaha
01:16:56 <pikhq_> Now that's rough.
01:17:12 <kmc> in crotobaltislavonia, gopher meat is considered a delicacy
01:17:20 <oerjan> OKAY
01:17:41 <shachaf> heegan
01:17:44 <kmc> hichaf
01:17:49 <shachaf> It snowed today.
01:17:52 <shachaf> Disaster!
01:17:58 <kmc> shachaf: you were in my twitter feed today! (Indirectly, via nullary type classes)
01:18:01 <kmc> shachaf: in EPA??
01:18:06 <shachaf> No, WA.
01:18:12 <kmc> that makes more sense
01:18:25 <shachaf> Where?
01:18:25 <elliott> has anyone actually used nullary typeclasses yet
01:18:28 <elliott> also do they support methods
01:18:34 <kmc> are you sure it wasn't just marijuana smoke
01:19:02 <Bike> we had a tornado here in WA yesterday
01:19:10 <kmc> are you sure it wasn't just marijuana smoke
01:19:21 <shachaf> Bike: the joke is that drugs
01:19:27 <kmc> are legal in WA now
01:19:29 <oerjan> the thing that slightly worries me about nullary typeclasses is that as configuration, they seem to have a hint of the badness of global variables
01:19:34 <Bike> whoa!!!!!
01:19:47 <Sgeo> I should learn what these nullary typeclass things are
01:20:00 <hagb4rd> kmc: joke?
01:20:02 <shachaf> kmc: Where in your Twitterfeed was it?
01:20:11 <kmc> shachaf: a retweet of a /r/haskell bot I think
01:20:23 <nooodl> argh what's the pronunciation of shachaf
01:20:25 <kmc> hagb4rd: "In November 2012 Washington state became one of just two states to pass by initiative the legal sale and possession of marijuana for both medical and non-medical use"
01:20:35 <Bike> i voted for it
01:20:35 <kmc> still illegal under federal law though
01:20:37 <Bike> erryday etc
01:20:38 <shachaf> nooodl: שחף hth
01:20:39 <kmc> nice
01:20:44 <elliott> but Bike its illegal
01:20:50 <pikhq_> I voted for the same here.
01:20:52 <pikhq_> (Colorado)
01:20:53 <hagb4rd> nice, congrats Washington!
01:21:00 <Bike> illegal more like awesomelegal
01:21:01 <kmc> 420 repeal manifestly unjust and grotesquely ineffective prohibition every day
01:21:07 <pikhq_> The other state is Colorado. Also November 2012.
01:21:09 <Sgeo> o.O did shachaf invent nullary typeclasses?
01:21:11 <shachaf> Bike: did you vote for an illegal thing
01:21:21 <Bike> yes exactly
01:21:26 <shachaf> Bike: you know that's transitively illegal right
01:21:30 <kmc> Sgeo: he discovered them in the Platonic realm
01:21:39 <shachaf> "the Platonic realm" is a euphemism for ddarius
01:21:45 <hagb4rd> how can something like..illegally grow
01:21:50 <hagb4rd> criminal plants
01:22:07 <Bike> what if we had a weed that grew firearms what then huh
01:22:18 <shachaf> I used to think that "the Platonic realm" was "the plutonic realm"
01:22:25 <shachaf> Because it was things that exist on Pluto.
01:22:28 <Bike> The realm of death?
01:22:28 <elliott> Pluto is where we store all our ideas
01:22:33 <oerjan> <elliott> also do they support methods <-- the trac discussion did have that worrisome bug about the method's type not containing any of the types from the class context, but hopefully that was fixed?
01:22:33 <shachaf> (Pluto was a planet at the time.)
01:23:05 <shachaf> oerjan: I hope that was fixed.
01:23:14 <kmc> i like the idea that all of math is written down on a stone tablet on Pluto
01:23:14 <Sgeo> Oh, so they're still basically global things, meh
01:23:26 <Bike> kmc: Wasn't that basically the plot of 2001
01:23:32 <kmc> yeah kinda
01:23:47 <shachaf> oerjan: You should worry that nullary type classes are global as a special case of worrying that all type classes are global.
01:23:57 <kmc> hagb4rd: it's an amusing absurdity yes, but a lot of 'natural' things are illegal and rightfully so
01:24:02 <kmc> like murdering your neighbor and taking his land
01:24:27 <hagb4rd> right.. .wasn't there a book by leary too?
01:24:34 <kmc> so the fact that marijuana grows naturally is not ipso facto reason to legalize it
01:24:46 <kmc> but there are abundant reasons, so you don't need that one
01:25:14 <kmc> also I think growing it is not legal in WA yet
01:25:28 <kmc> you can't buy or sell or grow it, but if you happen to find some in the street then you can have it and smoke it
01:25:37 <pikhq_> Whereas in Colorado it is already entirely legal to grow it.
01:25:49 <elliott> oerjan: nullary typeclasses aren't meant to have a point.
01:25:55 <pikhq_> You can't buy or sell it, but if you have a few plants it's quite legal.
01:25:55 <elliott> I think if shachaf sees anyone using them he'll be sad.
01:26:21 <Bike> pikhq_: clearly we should set up a colorado-washington exchange
01:26:33 <kmc> Bike: interstate commerce
01:26:34 <oerjan> shachaf: except when a type class has arguments, you can at least use newtype wrapping...
01:26:36 <kmc> go directly to jail
01:26:47 <Bike> ahaha, voter turnout on the initiative was 81%, "the highest in the nation"
01:26:50 <shachaf> kmc: well so's growing it yourself
01:26:51 <kmc> though actually, growing weed in your own backyard and smoking it yourself in your house is considered interstate commerce as well
01:26:55 <kmc> yup
01:27:16 <pikhq_> Because somehow anything you do that can affect interstate commerce in any way is interstate commerce.
01:27:21 <pikhq_> Y'know, butterfly effecty.
01:27:26 <kmc> it's really quite an efficient system, we never need another constitutional amendment because the federal government has discovered that they're allowed to do anything they want anyway
01:27:36 <oerjan> <kmc> i like the idea that all of math is written down on a stone tablet on Pluto <-- frozen methane tablet, you mean
01:27:55 <pikhq_> Stone, methane, same thing.
01:28:03 <kmc> 420 smoke methane every day
01:28:38 <Sgeo> 'Hmmm. I have thought before that I would nice if it were somehow possible to set (global?) "default" values for implicit params, but it were still possible to explicitly override them if necessary. This almost acomplishes that, except there's no way to override the defaults.'
01:28:54 <Bike> stop it kmc you'll make me want to consider supporting states rights people
01:29:23 <Sgeo> States are people too!
01:29:36 <kmc> Bike: to be clear I'm in favor of most forms of "judicial activism", like legalizing abortion and desegregating schools
01:30:08 <kmc> the constitutional argument in Roe v. Wade is also ridiculous, but it was a necessary step
01:30:14 <Bike> and i'm not actually in favor of making miscegenation laws "an issue for the states", yes
01:30:24 <pikhq_> US legal tradition has long held that courts are lawmaking entities anyways.
01:30:26 <kmc> I think the current system of fake federalism is kinda messed up and could do with some refactoring
01:30:27 <Bike> the ninth and tenth amendments are so very weird
01:30:38 <pikhq_> (literally since day one)
01:30:50 <Bike> Not since day one, it was like... Madison v. Monroe wasn't it
01:30:58 <kmc> marbury v. madison?
01:31:03 <Bike> there we go.
01:31:04 <Sgeo> Google still asks me to take a tour of Google Reader
01:31:11 <kmc> haha
01:31:13 <kmc> get a screenshot
01:31:30 <Bike> So like, day... 9855.
01:31:31 <elliott> guys just get a queen
01:31:36 <elliott> it resolves 100% of problems
01:32:11 <pikhq_> In a confusing situation, many states have a "reception statute" on the books.
01:32:29 <pikhq_> These statutes mean "English common law is $state common law, up to $date."
01:32:45 <Bike> pff, nice.
01:32:49 <kmc> except in louisiana where it's the Napoleanic code?
01:33:02 <olsner> shachaf: news of the nullary type classes was also retweeted by dons
01:33:25 <kmc> ok not really but they have weird French civil law there
01:33:35 <pikhq_> It's a variant of Napoleanic code.
01:34:25 <Bike> does florida use spanish colonial laws
01:34:38 <pikhq_> Oh jeeze, New York incorporated the *full set* of English laws.
01:34:52 <pikhq_> I think New York has regulations on the powers of the King.
01:34:57 <Bike> magna carta still enforced in new york
01:35:18 <Bike> guy named john straw pulled off the street, drawn, quartered
01:35:18 <pikhq_> Yes, I'm pretty sure the Magna Carta is law in New York.
01:35:44 <Bike> See elliott? We do have a king probably.
01:35:45 <kmc> I think Harvard University still enjoys some protections from eminent domain, dating back to the Massachusetts Bay Colony charter
01:35:49 <Phantom_Hoover> i understand scotland is neither common nor civil law
01:35:51 <kmc> signed by King James I or whoever
01:36:06 <Phantom_Hoover> james VI!
01:36:37 <kmc> heh you're scottish
01:36:57 <pikhq_> I prefer His Imperial Majesty Norton I, Emperor of these United States, Protector of Mexico.
01:37:13 <Bike> «In other words, if an 'uninhabited' or 'infidel' territory is colonized by Britain, then the English law automatically applies in this territory from the moment of colonization; however if the colonized territory has a pre-existing legal system, the native law would apply (effectively a form of indirect rule) until formally superseded by the English law, through Royal Prerogative subjected to the Westminster Parliament.» good lord
01:37:18 <kmc> "No that's not Malcolm... I'm in a Scottish restaurant and a man's yelling that they've under-fried his Mars bar."
01:44:48 <Phantom_Hoover> shit i really should watch the thick of it
01:45:00 <kmc> yes you should
01:45:32 <shachaf> Phantom_Hoover: You should really MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS AND NOT DELETE PEOPLE'S LISTS.
01:45:51 <Phantom_Hoover> unfortunately it's not on the iplayer which means my only options are piracy or *shudder* dvds
01:46:33 <kmc> it's on Hulu in the US
01:46:50 <kmc> so you could watch it by proxying through some kind of Amerikabox
01:46:56 <Phantom_Hoover> i feel as though i am the victim of some terrible injustice
01:47:06 <kmc> why isn't it on iplayer anyway
01:47:14 <Phantom_Hoover> iplayer only lasts 7 days
01:47:20 <kmc> assholes
01:47:21 <Phantom_Hoover> i really don't know why
01:47:25 <kmc> your tv license fee paid for this show
01:47:36 <kmc> which I enjoy for free with commercials oddly inserted
01:47:54 <Phantom_Hoover> getting fucked over by tv licensing is just part of the British Experience
01:48:06 <kmc> god save the queen
01:48:15 <kmc> anyway you can probably torrent it
01:48:20 <oerjan> backup the queen
01:48:39 <kmc> I got 98.6 fucking percent of Time Trumpet and then my torrent stalled
01:48:40 <Phantom_Hoover> we all got ostensibly-polite but still threatening letters from them in my halls
01:50:14 <kmc> git commit the queen
01:50:20 <kmc> but do not under any circumstance force-push her
01:50:38 <kmc> shachaf do you like my ASCII art in #cslounge or do you think it was
01:50:39 <kmc> 'too much'
01:50:40 <oerjan> can i cherry pick her?
01:50:43 <pikhq_> How's about rebasing the queen?
01:50:54 <Phantom_Hoover> informing us that we can't watch live tv in our rooms (but we can in the kitchen), unless it's on a device which isn't connected to an aerial or mains power, in which case if your parents have a licence it comes under that for some reason
01:51:21 <elliott> what if you record the TV
01:51:53 <pikhq_> Phantom_Hoover: What if you have a license?
01:52:09 <Phantom_Hoover> well you can watch the iplayer without a licence if it's not live
01:54:27 <shachaf> kmc: i don't care about big pastes that much but maybe its against "the house rules""????? idk
01:54:43 <shachaf> imo there should be a channel where you can paste without people getting
01:54:57 <shachaf> upset
01:55:05 <Phantom_Hoover> that pause was ominous
01:55:36 <shachaf> om nom nom
01:55:53 <kmc> it was only 7 lines :'(
01:56:04 <shachaf> kmc: I bet your IRCalike has better paste support.
01:56:12 <shachaf> Can I use it yet?!
01:56:23 <kmc> it does; it has Markdown code blocks with syntax highlighting
01:56:30 <shachaf> is there a website yet? you gotta "build the hype"
01:56:31 <kmc> and no, not generally open to the public yet
01:56:37 <kmc> no company website
01:56:45 <shachaf> are you actually working for the nsa
01:56:49 <kmc> no
01:57:07 <oerjan> that's what an nsa worker would say!
01:57:14 <kmc> probably the main reason is that we don't have a final name for the company yet
01:57:19 <shachaf> oh nsa.gov is back up
01:57:21 <kmc> oerjan: yeah maybe
01:57:35 <shachaf> did you see the cryptologs there
01:57:37 <Phantom_Hoover> kmc, call it &
01:57:46 <kmc> I don't actually know, I think most of them can admit that they work at NSA (if not anything else about the job)
01:57:47 <Phantom_Hoover> where & is like @
01:57:52 <kmc> unlike CIA
01:57:57 <shachaf> fun fact: i pronounce & as @
01:58:06 <shachaf> 2>&1 -----> two into at 1
01:58:13 <shachaf> s/.$/one/
01:58:25 <kmc> it'll be http://ampersa.nd
01:58:26 <oerjan> & and Tea
01:58:28 <kmc> 'trendy'
01:58:35 <shachaf> is that north dakota
01:58:39 <kmc> yes
01:58:45 <shachaf> imo move to north dakota and secede to get your own tld
01:58:46 <kmc> the newly independent people's republic of north dakota
01:58:53 <oerjan> wait wat
01:59:10 <kmc> TIL http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Country_codes_of_Serbia
01:59:40 <Bike> "This task, which could seem trivial, is made hugely complex by the number of countries in the world having names which begin with the letter S."
01:59:45 <oerjan> sorry, * @&Tea
02:00:09 <Bike> haha svalbard
02:00:14 <Bike> way to punk those serbs!!
02:00:19 <elliott> kmc: why does mosh+irssi drop all my keystrokes
02:00:22 <elliott> when my system freezes
02:00:28 <elliott> so i keep typing and like half of them come out mushed together
02:00:32 <elliott> it's incredibly annoying
02:01:03 <Jafet> Why do you have system freezes
02:01:04 <Bike> oh man i need to look up countrycodes for macedonia now
02:01:35 <Bike> ampersa.fyrom
02:02:18 <Bike> wow it's just .mk, that's, pretty boring
02:02:57 <Jafet> > 'k' `elem` "macedonia"
02:02:58 <lambdabot> False
02:04:48 <Bike> the russian, as you might have guessed
02:05:01 <Jafet> What is russian
02:05:02 <Bike> or uh cyrillic
02:05:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving).
02:08:42 <shachaf> http://fora.tv/2012/11/22/Ole_Peters_Introducing_Irreversible_Time_in_Economics
02:10:49 <Bike> What's that?
02:11:12 <shachaf> A video someone sent me. I thought it was interesting.
02:11:36 <shachaf> imo watch it and see
02:11:48 <Bike> FINE
02:12:42 <Bike> is this the infamous oleg?
02:12:55 <Bike> or is this guy too britishoid
02:12:56 <shachaf> No?
02:12:59 <Bike> or... whatever
02:13:04 <shachaf> That's not even any Oleg.
02:13:06 <kmc> the Infamous O.L.E.G.
02:13:15 <Bike> Ole is basically like Oleg.
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02:13:31 <kmc> elliott: there's an open ticket about the fact that it queues input during arbitr. long disconnects
02:13:50 <elliott> oh I don't get disconnected or anything
02:14:09 <elliott> it's just my system stops working for like 10 seconds because linux is terrible and X is terrible and I have a billion chrome tabs open
02:14:17 <kmc> oh
02:14:17 <elliott> and then what I typed during that period comes out in a mangled mush
02:14:21 <kmc> hm
02:14:29 <kmc> and the same doesn't happen with ssh?
02:14:42 <elliott> (once it even changed irssi window on me and sent this mangled mush into a channel instead of a /query, presumably control code nonsense)
02:15:12 <elliott> kmc: good question. I've on to irc fver on this machine. there it goes again. I've only used mosh to irc on this server on this machine.
02:15:21 <kmc> oh well irssi has this paste detection feature which interacts poorly with Mosh
02:15:35 <kmc> if it gets a bunch of control codes all at once, it assumes it's a paste rather than legit cursor moves etc
02:16:42 <kmc> on shitty connections (or with shitty host as you observed) Mosh will end up dumping a lot of queued input all at once
02:17:07 <kmc> SSH doesn't, because the keystrokes went out as separate TCP packets, or something
02:17:25 <elliott> yeah I've had that issue too but I think it's separate
02:17:29 <elliott> like, there's no server lag in this situation
02:17:30 <elliott> just local lag
02:17:30 <kmc> Mosh just tries to state-sync the latest version of this input queue object and when it finally suceeds, there's a lot of input to send to the application
02:17:39 <kmc> ok
02:17:47 <kmc> if you disable irssi paste detection does it go away
02:17:49 <shachaf> kmc: is kmcirc going to use ssp
02:18:02 <Sgeo> What does paste detection do?
02:18:12 <kmc> shachaf: you mean the product i'm working on?
02:18:16 <shachaf> Yes.
02:18:18 <elliott> kmc: good question
02:18:20 <shachaf> I've named it for you.
02:18:23 <Bike> Sgeo: it tells you "are you sure you want to paste four hundred lines into ##furry"
02:18:26 <elliott> I guess I should set up some other kind of paste protection if I am going to do that
02:18:27 <shachaf> Now you can release it.
02:18:30 <elliott> since I accidentally middle-click a lot
02:18:48 <kmc> not exactly, since it's a HTTP-based protocol
02:18:50 <kmc> with a web client
02:18:57 <kmc> no UDP for us
02:19:05 <kmc> but we're aware of the SSP design and are factoring it in
02:19:26 <elliott> how do you feel spending your time working on a glorified web app for businesses
02:19:38 <elliott> (insert various indicators of smugness here)
02:19:45 <Bike> do you even have a job
02:19:45 <kmc> what we're doing now looks a bit like Quora's LiveNode
02:19:48 <Bike> are you a welfare queen
02:20:15 <elliott> are you talking to me or kmc
02:20:33 <shachaf> he's talking to me
02:20:50 <shachaf> Bike: im a lazy bum :'(
02:20:56 <kmc> elliott: shrug, i took this job because of the people and not the tech
02:21:16 <elliott> kmc: "it's like quora" i'm sorry but i have to feel bad for you for saying this
02:21:21 <kmc> haha
02:21:28 <kmc> LiveNode is cool tech though!
02:21:52 <kmc> every bit of HTML they send you, they remember which DB queries went into it, and when any of those rows is changed, they push an update out to your browser (via HTTP long-polling)
02:22:05 <kmc> so you never need to reload a Quora page; everything on it (comments votes etc.) is kept up to date
02:22:29 <elliott> ummm what's a database
02:23:13 <kmc> Meteor is similar except they also transparently cache parts of the DB on the client side and so some queries happen locally, and also you use the same APIs for client and server code
02:23:16 <Bike> That doesn't work if he just said "DB".
02:23:27 <elliott> Bike
02:23:28 <elliott> shut up
02:23:35 <kmc> after working on a realtime web app for 6 months it's abundantly clear that a framework like Meteor is needed
02:23:39 <Bike> no you shut up
02:23:45 <elliott> no
02:23:46 <elliott> you shut up
02:23:49 <shachaf> ==Bike
02:24:00 <Bike> no you, shut up
02:24:04 <elliott> no
02:24:08 <elliott> you are wrong as to the person who should be shutting up
02:24:08 <Bike> (but yeah that sounds cool kmc)
02:24:10 <kmc> (btw we know founders of Meteor and Quora so we have some clueful opinions on how they do things)
02:24:10 <elliott> because it's actually you
02:24:20 <Bike> imo it's you?
02:24:27 <elliott> (are the founders of quora as soulless as their website)
02:24:30 <elliott> imo Bike it's actually you
02:24:39 <Bike> That's just like your opinion man.
02:24:52 <kmc> I think Adam D'Angelo is not soulless
02:24:54 <kmc> maybe the others
02:24:57 <kmc> they fired that one guy
02:24:59 <Bike> OK I do have to say Quora's site is pretty, uh, i dunno.
02:25:13 <elliott> Bike: well in this case my opinion is the factual kind
02:25:15 <Bike> "Quora is your best source for knowledge. Quora aims to be the easiest place to write new content and share content from the web." like...
02:25:20 <kmc> their current policy of hiding stuff if you don't sign in is extremely annoying
02:25:29 <kmc> they're backpeddling that a little bit
02:25:39 <Bike> it's like the vaguest thing ever
02:25:46 <kmc> it's not clear that they have a business model or a clear idea of what they want to be
02:25:50 <Bike> yes
02:26:01 <Bike> are we at a point where that's a negative thing for startups yet
02:26:05 <kmc> heh
02:26:08 <kmc> depends on the stage
02:26:12 <kmc> they've been around for a while now
02:26:18 <kmc> I think it starts to look bad after years
02:26:26 <Bike> because i mean i use 'social media' sites and i'm still not sure how they could possibly make money
02:26:27 <kmc> Twitter doesn't totally have a business model but they do more or less know what they want to be
02:26:36 <elliott> it's like stack exchange with a smaller font and facebook
02:26:52 <kmc> like, it's one thing to not make money, it's another thing to not even know why people should come to your site
02:27:36 <shachaf> I go to quora.com for the exciting LiveNode® live update technology.
02:28:17 <Bike> kmc: yeah i mean, i use a few sites that boil down to "you post things and other people read them" but that doesn't seem very businessy.
02:28:50 <kmc> we have a relatively clear business model so that's good
02:28:56 <kmc> too early to actually be making money though
02:29:08 <elliott> is #esoteric going to move to kmc's chat
02:29:15 <kmc> doubtful
02:29:34 <shachaf> kmc mcchatister
02:29:39 <Bike> kmc hunts down freenode staff, forces them to move to kmcirc
02:29:46 <kmc> kmccommicchat
02:29:55 <Bike> yesssss.
02:30:02 <shachaf> Are you going to give us all free life licenses?
02:30:10 <kmc> comic chat crashes when I try to connect to Freenode :(
02:30:30 <shachaf> Wait, I hadn't heard of this Comic Chat thing.
02:30:39 <shachaf> Hmm, or maybe I had.
02:30:41 <Sgeo> It's a Microsoft thing
02:30:43 <Sgeo> Old
02:30:52 <Bike> ?? I thought everybody here read jerkcity
02:30:52 <lambdabot> I thought everybody here read jerkcity
02:30:56 <Bike> thx
02:31:01 <kmc> thlambdabot
02:31:23 <shachaf> Bike: All I know is that that's "that thing kmc quotes"
02:31:38 <Sgeo> I used Comic Chat once
02:31:44 <Sgeo> When i was playing around emulating Win98
02:31:47 <Bike> it's written and produced by a sapient kmccomicchat instance, Mel Gibson.
02:32:09 <elliott> pretty sure kmc secretly writes jerkcity
02:32:48 <kmc> i kind of want to write an exploit for comic chat
02:32:58 <shachaf> I confuse jerkcity and achewood.
02:33:03 <shachaf> "those weird comics kmc reads"
02:33:03 <kmc> except that I don't know any win9x debug tools
02:33:10 <Bike> IDA?
02:33:25 <kmc> don't have it, don't know it
02:33:25 <shachaf> kmc: Doesn't ollydbg work for that?
02:33:58 <shachaf> I did a reverse engineering thing for a Windows binary for a pseudo-CTF with that.
02:34:10 <kmc> presumably Win98 has no ASLR, no NX pages, no stack protectors
02:34:11 <shachaf> It was fun.
02:34:13 <kmc> cool
02:34:16 <kmc> whose PCTF?
02:34:24 <Bike> is 'pseudo-ctf' a thing?
02:34:34 <shachaf> Um, an internal company one.
02:34:38 <kmc> ok
02:34:41 <kmc> super sekret
02:34:46 <kmc> shachaf who (if anyone) do you work for these days
02:35:54 <shachaf> No one.
02:36:27 <shachaf> But the plan is probably to change that once I get back to CA?
02:36:31 <kmc> i see
02:40:35 <kmc> where do you want to work?
02:41:33 <kmc> shachaf: was ollydbg easy to learn?
02:42:59 <shachaf> Not sure yet.
02:43:21 <shachaf> Pretty easy for what I did, which wasn't *that* involved.
02:44:17 <shachaf> It was enough to realize that there's a lot that gdb isn't very convenient for.
02:45:34 <kmc> like what?
02:48:33 <Bike> does anyone have one of those days when they realize nine tenths of the geologic timespan had only bacteria and such as living organisms
02:48:43 <shachaf> I don't remember the details much.
02:49:05 <shachaf> For example when you're stepping through instructions and you're on a branch instruction it tells you whether the branch is going to be taken.
02:50:03 <elliott> Bike: no
02:50:08 <elliott> Bike: computers are awesome (haha im lying)
02:51:06 <Bike> "Determining where Ediacaran organisms fit in the tree of life has proven challenging; it is not even established that they were animals, with suggestions that they were lichens (fungus-alga symbionts), algae, protists known as foraminifera, fungi or microbial colonies, to hypothetical intermediates between plants and animals" like
02:51:21 <kmc> Bike: today I was wigging out about the fact that language and human civilization have existed for only the blink of an eye in evolutionary timescale
02:51:42 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cyclomedusa_2.png i bet this is a photo of a rarely preserved elliott
02:51:46 <elliott> kmc: were you on... the drugs
02:52:04 <shachaf> how about the fact that oil will only have existed for the blink of an eye
02:52:25 <shachaf> well, existed and used by humans
02:52:25 <Bike> oh snap gettin' political!!
02:53:09 <shachaf> Someone renewed shachaf.com :-(
02:53:09 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Charnia.png seriously though, the hell is this stuff.
02:53:17 <Bike> That's like, your grandpa or something.
02:53:26 <shachaf> Oh, wait, no they didn't.
02:53:33 <Bike> bonus: this isn't a plant.
02:53:48 <kmc> bacteria -> apes, 3,600,000,000 years
02:53:49 <elliott> Bike: i can't open you pictures because my computer is terrible
02:53:53 <kmc> apes -> rocketships, the internet: 100,000 years
02:54:11 <Bike> elliott: Basically picture sitting on a rock and that's it. It's your butt.
02:54:45 <Jafet> simulated reality sex: eternity
02:54:45 <kmc> elliott: no i wasn't although I had just woken up
02:54:50 <kmc> yes
02:54:51 <Bike> Your six hundred million year old butt
02:54:59 <kmc> if you want a picture of the future, imagine a boob slapping a human face, forever
02:55:13 <Jafet> Or until heat death, if you know what I mean
02:55:26 <kmc> homo sapiens: great ape or greatest ape?
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02:55:55 <zzo38> kmc: Those aren't the only two possibilities! (But it is a few)
02:56:18 <Bike> They're pretty good as apes go, imo
02:56:20 <Jafet> Eat grapes
02:56:53 <zzo38> Humans are homo sapiens sapiens, though; not homo sapiens. Isn't it?
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02:57:17 <Bike> We fit in Homo sapiens too.
02:57:26 <Bike> It's the magic of hierarchical classifications.
02:57:39 <shachaf> homo (cycle sapiens)
02:57:42 <zzo38> OK
02:57:49 <shachaf> imo bicycle sapiens
02:57:55 <shachaf> that's Bike
02:58:07 <kmc> bbl though, i must cuddle with a fellow ape and watch televised entertainments concerning a group of apes who attend a, 'community college'
02:58:52 <zzo38> At first, I don't think human is ape, until someone told me what is the definition of "ape", and then it seem to me that actually human is ape.
02:58:52 <Bike> shachaf: My genera was actually discovered by Hermann Buttmeister, so technically it's "Buttmeister sapiens".
02:59:00 <copumpkin> kmc: is it back on?
02:59:03 <elliott> kmc: just distract yourself from working at quora
02:59:13 <copumpkin> kmc works at quora?
02:59:19 <Bike> Oh, that was Community.
02:59:46 <elliott> copumpkin: he works at fake plastic imitation of quora
02:59:47 <kmc> no I work at a tiny startup in Central Square, Cambridge which lacks a permanent name
02:59:53 <kmc> it's not quora at all :'(
02:59:59 <elliott> it's the ms comic chat version of quora
03:00:11 <kmc> It's like a MS COMIC CHAT for QUORA!
03:00:22 <copumpkin> fake chinese rubber startup?
03:00:24 <Bike> fuck, i'd invest in that
03:00:44 <copumpkin> kmc: you don't sound very enthusiastic about it
03:00:52 <copumpkin> (I'm perceptive this way)
03:01:03 <kmc> yeah Community started up again last month or so
03:01:11 <kmc> the show-runner got fired and so it's Not The Same
03:01:11 <copumpkin> omg
03:01:12 <Bike> he's probably just unenthusiastic about it here vis a vis his not cuddlmunitying.
03:01:15 <copumpkin> damn
03:01:15 <kmc> but still pretty good
03:01:16 <copumpkin> wtf
03:01:44 <kmc> and I sound un-excited just because the product isn't something likely to excite people here
03:01:49 <copumpkin> ah
03:01:56 <kmc> it's a realtime communication tool (i.e. 'chat') for businesses
03:01:57 <copumpkin> Y U MAEK ASSUMPTION ABOUT US
03:01:58 <Bike> why it hardly involves sum types at all
03:02:04 <kmc> with a user experience based on Zephyr
03:02:06 <kmc> yeah what Bike said
03:02:11 <kmc> got to go tho for reals, back later
03:02:20 <elliott> uh kmc I'm pretty sure you'll find the reals don't exist
03:02:20 <shachaf> i want a zephyr account :'(
03:02:24 <copumpkin> kmc: omg is it better than MICROSOFT LYNC
03:02:25 <elliott> try: "got to go tho for naturals"
03:02:33 <copumpkin> alright have fun :P
03:02:34 <shachaf> copumpkin: how do i get a zephyr account!!
03:02:37 <zzo38> I think IRC is better for chat, not HTML, isn't it?
03:02:38 <Bike> Gotta go for computable reals
03:02:44 <Bike> zzo38: http, not html
03:02:52 <Bike> well that's what i gathered anyway.
03:02:53 <zzo38> Well, not HTTP either.
03:03:03 <Bike> IRC and HTML aren't comparable obv.
03:03:31 <zzo38> SMTP is no good for chat either, because it is for electronic mail, instead.
03:04:26 <zzo38> http://principiadiscordia.com/memebombs/kwotes.pl?action=list&o=date
03:04:36 <shachaf> IRC is better for chat than for HTML.
03:04:45 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, that too.
03:04:56 <Bike> I swear those seemed better when I was 14.
03:05:48 <zzo38> What seem better when you are 14?
03:05:53 <Bike> memebombs.
03:06:21 <zzo38> Try &so=reverse and see if it work better, then.
03:07:48 <Bike> nope
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03:17:43 <elliott> Bike: what is a memebomb. i cannot click links.
03:20:59 <shachaf> Well, you've heard of a bomb, yeah?
03:22:47 <shachaf> [...]
03:22:49 <shachaf> Well, this is like a meme one.
03:23:40 <zzo38> I can copy the text in case you cannot access it.
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03:41:36 <kmc> copumpkin: I have no idea what Lync is, so, probably yes
03:42:26 <kmc> zzo38: the benefit of a web app is that anyone can start using it instantly, and you can distribute updates instantly without the user knowing
03:42:38 <kmc> both of which are pretty important when you're trying to build a business quickly
03:42:57 <elliott> kmc: are you really
03:43:05 <zzo38> kmc: Well, you still need an internet connection and a compatible web browser, and they might not want updates without knowning.
03:43:26 <kmc> once you have a web app then you are sort of stuck with HTTP for the protocol, and it's not the best for chat, but it's workable
03:44:17 <kmc> but we have an API and there will be other clients and an IRC or XMPP bridge would not be impossible
03:44:35 <kmc> people warned us in the strongest possible terms not to base our thing on XMPP, because it's shit
03:44:52 <zzo38> I agree XMPP is no good; IRC is much better.
03:45:19 <zzo38> #5249: I don't want to believe this statement. #5248: I want this statement to be false. #5247: I'm a creationist; I refuse to believe that I could have evolved from man. #5246: The meaning of life is [DATA EXPUNGED]. #5245: Laugh at this sentence, please. #5244: You are the voice in your head. #5243: we take the naps we think we deserve. #5422: How can you be paranoid, knowing that that's exactly what they want?
03:45:32 <kmc> well said
03:45:55 <Bike> what's shit about XMPP out of curiosity
03:46:02 <kmc> i don't know
03:46:04 <Bike> especially compared to IRC which is pretty i dunno
03:46:08 <kmc> but everyone who knows the protocol hates it
03:46:32 <kmc> our API is like an order of magnitude simpler than either
03:46:42 <kmc> assuming you have a working HTTPS client library
03:46:46 <Bike> no RPC_WEBSITE i assume
03:47:07 <kmc> it's especially simple if you just want to send one message, which is what people need for their buildbot integration or whatever
03:47:10 <zzo38> s/5422/5242/
03:47:17 <kmc> anyway time for more TV, back later
03:47:42 <elliott> i'll yell at kmc thru irc<->kmchat bridge 4 sure
03:48:03 <elliott> kmc: btw aren't you competing with 37signals
03:48:32 <zzo38> Which one is better?
03:54:47 <Sgeo> Oh hey someone's making their own chat protocol?
03:55:41 <zzo38> Sgeo: Actually it is HTTPS, I think, seems to be what they are saying?
03:55:52 <Sgeo> elliott, remember Sine? Years ago some Siners made their own chat protocol
03:55:57 <Sgeo> Don't know what happened with it
03:56:45 <Sgeo> Oh, I see
03:58:06 <zzo38> #5241: if you take everything out of the inside you end making a new inside #5240: Follow ME - I'll be right behind you #5239: They promised me fiery doom, but all i ever got was this lukewarm failure #5238: Doesn't this all seem a bit weird to you? #5237: love to see it happen #5236: I promise... Or not.. Or do... Whatever.
03:58:09 <Bike> elliott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mistaken_Point,_Newfoundland_and_Labrador so i decided to link you to weird subarctic names i find
03:58:16 <zzo38> Some of these have question mark. Can you answer any of these questions please?
03:58:39 <zzo38> (Specifically, #5242 and #5238, for example)
03:58:48 <Bike> I don't, and yes.
04:00:04 <zzo38> #5235: "You wish to fight the darkness? You want to try to eradicate the very thing that comes after light? The being that never leaves? The essence that hides all evil? Are you stupid?" - Foxius #5234: If there's an almighty god who's not a failure, the one you've been hearing about could only be an impostor. But that only makes sense if you're sane, and as saint paul amply demonstrated, sanity is overrated.
04:00:16 <zzo38> There are more question, even more than one per text!
04:01:19 <Sgeo> Is your response to this question a negative response?
04:01:42 <Bike> No, n/a, not a question, no, yes and no.
04:01:53 <zzo38> Sgeo: Does another question count, such as: Who knows?
04:02:50 <Bike> Trogool knows.
04:03:12 <zzo38> Bike: Do you know that you lose due to it not being a question?
04:03:31 <kmc> zzo38: yes, it runs over HTTPS. it also runs over TCP, IP, and IEEE 802
04:03:48 <Bike> Yes.
04:04:02 <zzo38> OK.
04:04:04 <zzo38> #5233: Poking shit with a stick accomplishes nothing, except makes it smell even worse. #5232: It is better to learn to embrace the darkness than to waste electricity turning on all the lights and making them explode. #5231: Please save the monsters who are getting killed
04:04:20 <elliott> kmc: are you enjoying this alternating tv / internet arguments
04:04:23 <zzo38> I will skip #5230 because is no good, and I will skip everything else too because it is off page.
04:04:32 <elliott> what's #5230 i'm curious now
04:04:55 <kmc> elliott: yeah we're competing with them and with hipchat and with IRC and with fucking Skype and GChat which are apparently popular in the business world
04:05:02 <kmc> despite the fact that they don't work very well at all
04:05:07 <kmc> elliott: yes enjoying
04:05:20 <kmc> i couldn't watch Community because of Hulu fucking me over somehow
04:05:21 <Sgeo> kmc, what about Campfire?
04:05:25 <zzo38> elliott: Well, you have to read it by yourself if you want to, and also #5229 which it seems to be replying to, possibly.
04:05:25 <Bike> kmc: if it doesn't support ieee 752 why sould i invest in you
04:05:26 <elliott> pretty sure competing with 37signals is some kind of startup blasphemy. i bet 37signals encourage startup blasphemy in one of their books.
04:05:33 <elliott> i've never even looked at their books but i'm sure they're terrible
04:05:48 <Bike> also here's a "kmc tidbit": «The United States Federal Geographic Data Committee uses a "barred capital C" character similar to the capital letter Ukrainian Ye ‹Є› to represent the Cambrian Period.[12] The proper[13] Unicode character is U+A792 Ꞓ latin capital letter c with bar.[14]»
04:05:54 <zzo38> elliott: How much do you want to bet?
04:06:05 <Sgeo> Oh elliott mentioned them
04:06:29 <Sgeo> My group used Campfire during Senior Project
04:06:34 <elliott> zzo38: 9999
04:07:07 <zzo38> elliott: In what units?
04:07:12 <elliott> zzo38: yes.
04:07:25 <zzo38> OK.
04:07:58 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Halkieriid_sclerite_structure_300.png fuckin high res
04:10:24 * Sgeo does a dumb thing and installs Calibre on Linux
04:10:46 <Sgeo> Or not, weird packaging issues
04:11:35 <Sgeo> Bah, I need to convert a pdf to epub
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04:19:59 <kmc> Sgeo: Campfire is the 37signals product elliott referred to
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04:20:20 <kmc> 37 signals guiltied to a zegnatronic rocket society
04:20:37 <shachaf> that's a lot of signals
04:20:38 <kmc> Sgeo: what did you think of Campfire
04:20:40 <Sgeo> kmc, um. Are you hooked up to horse_ebooks?
04:20:55 <shachaf> is twitter.com down
04:20:58 <shachaf> help i need my horse_ebooks fix
04:21:03 <Sgeo> It was nice having a web-accessible log
04:21:44 <kmc> Sgeo: http://www.starve.org/Stuff/frank-alone.jpg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Chu
04:21:49 <Bike> kmc: so on the "blink of an eye" note, did you know that there was a thirty million year period where there was like one extant land lifeform and most of the oceans were anoxic
04:22:04 <kmc> Bike: huh
04:22:05 <elliott> Bike: that lifeform was me
04:22:06 <Bike> uh that's clearly ALPHAtronic
04:22:06 <kmc> did not know
04:22:26 <Bike> where are the zegnatrons clinton
04:22:36 <Bike> elliott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lystrosaurus_murrayi.jpg i can believe it
04:23:08 <elliott> Bike: im so beautiful
04:23:14 -!- asiekierka has joined.
04:23:29 <elliott> Bike: it looks so chill
04:23:38 <Bike> it does
04:23:42 <Sgeo> I don't remember if I had any complaints about it
04:23:52 <Bike> "yeah i make up 95% of terrestrial fossils, but that's just, like, a side thing"
04:23:52 <shachaf> Bikeosaurus
04:24:07 <Bike> ("I actually have this band...")
04:24:16 <Sgeo> Small amount of storage space, no convenient place for shared passwords
04:24:21 <Sgeo> I guess those were issues
04:24:38 <Sgeo> Hopefully the shared password thing wouldn't occur in a real business
04:24:39 <shachaf> did dinosaurs know about monoids
04:25:10 <Bike> there are some trace fossils that have led some to hypothesize a "dinosaur Abel" yes
04:25:14 <Bike> (as in abelian group)
04:25:14 <kmc> i've heard that mycorrhizal fungi had an important role in helping plants take over on land
04:25:56 <shachaf> did abel of cain and abel invent abelian groups
04:25:58 <elliott> Bike: are dinosaurs abel to do anything at all
04:26:04 <Bike> elliott: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Lystrosaurus_murrayi_scale.svg also: optimal ankle-biting height
04:26:22 <kmc> also coal deposits only exists because back then there wasn't the right kind of fungus to rot dead trees
04:26:38 <kmc> now we don't get any more coal except in anoxic swamps
04:26:58 <Bike> I figue mycorrhizal fungi probably had an important role in everything, they invented internetworking man.
04:27:09 <elliott> Bike: oh wow it's tiny
04:27:11 <elliott> even chiller
04:27:13 <kmc> "the mycelium, Nature's living internet"
04:27:16 <elliott> i'd be its bud
04:27:18 <kmc> -- health product at Whole Foods
04:27:30 <elliott> nature's living internet: literally the internet
04:27:31 <Bike> pet lystrosaurus, i can dig it
04:27:43 <Bike> possibly literally?
04:27:48 <Bike> well you also probably evolved from it
04:27:53 <elliott> i'm ok with that
04:27:55 <Bike> perhaps the lystrosaurus was within us all along.
04:27:57 <elliott> something was lost in the process, you know?
04:28:21 <Sgeo> Hmm, if an esotericer has a birthday, is it appropriate to wish the person happy birthday in the channel?
04:28:22 <shachaf> imo the Rhymenosaurus was the best
04:28:37 <shachaf> Sgeo: only if it's pikhq_
04:28:52 <Bike> HAPPY BIRTHDAY PIKHQ
04:29:01 <shachaf> Bike: thats tomorrow..........................................................................
04:29:02 <kmc> shachaf wished me a happy 9,000 days alive
04:29:24 <shachaf> 9,000 days since being born
04:29:37 <Sgeo> Happy birthday pikhq_
04:29:49 <shachaf> Sgeo pikhq_ is in Colorado
04:29:52 <shachaf> how could you
04:29:54 <shachaf> @localtime pikhq_
04:29:55 <lambdabot> Local time for pikhq_ is Fri Mar 22 22:29:54 2013
04:30:02 <Sgeo> Oh
04:30:09 <Bike> just accounting for time dilation shachaf
04:30:31 <Sgeo> Bluh, would be nice if Facebook accounted for timezones
04:31:20 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chasmatosaurus_BW.jpg Oh man. Oh man its face. elliott this is me. (You can probably eat me.)
04:31:21 <Sgeo> Also: if my brain actually processed how pikhq_'s birthday would be 'tomorrow'
04:32:19 <elliott> Bike: that doesn't look very much like a bicycle at all
04:32:46 <Bike> Uh if you were a good reader you'd note that, like bikes, it's clearly standing on a surface.
04:32:56 <Bike> I guess that's too much for a mere therapsid to grasp though.
04:33:26 <shachaf> this is me https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokit_(suku)
04:33:33 <elliott> i just don't understand bicycles Bike
04:34:06 <shachaf> elliott: bicycles are like unicycles with a spare wheel
04:34:09 <shachaf> in case you get a flat
04:34:13 <shachaf> hth
04:34:27 <kmc> living in the middle ages sounds a lot better once you realize that deep frying had already been invented
04:34:44 <Bike> Hoo, that looks polyphyletic, shachaf... sorry man.
04:34:45 <shachaf> but had mars bars been invents?!
04:34:53 <kmc> as long as you're rich and can afford to eat deep fried food rather than half a dead cat that someone has shat on
04:35:03 <kmc> also nobody will give you any shit for being fat
04:35:13 <Bike> An enlightened time.
04:35:13 <kmc> and you'll probably die young whether you're fat or not
04:35:40 <Bike> What if we don't live in Europe huh
04:35:51 <elliott> Bike. europe is literally the entire world apart from america.
04:35:58 <elliott> we've been over this.
04:36:08 <Bike> I... don't think we have?
04:36:09 <elliott> also america didn't exist before white people got there.
04:36:19 <elliott> it was invented a priori
04:36:30 <shachaf> before columbus invented america there was only europe
04:36:34 <Bike> Damn man, I can't argue with kant.
04:36:45 <kmc> Bike: well if you live in India then maybe you get to be king of a ditch with a stream down the middle
04:36:47 <Bike> He's like, all smart and shit.
04:36:48 <kmc> like jack shaftoe
04:36:50 <kmc> (spoiler alert)
04:37:02 <Bike> wow i actually know what that's a spoiler for?
04:37:08 <shachaf> i dont
04:37:11 <Fiora> kmc: rich, white, male, and of noble birth right
04:37:20 <shachaf> but one day i'll hear about jack shaftoe and then i'll be spoilered??
04:37:20 <kmc> yeah that's the trouble
04:37:23 <shachaf> "delayed action spoilers"
04:37:27 <kmc> shachaf: baroque cycle hth
04:37:30 <elliott> i like how you made it into a spoiler
04:37:34 <elliott> solely by pointing out that it's a spoiler
04:37:41 <elliott> otherwise nobody would have any idea what the fuck and just ignored you and got on with life
04:37:52 <shachaf> elliott: "(spoiler alert)" was actually referring to itself.
04:38:03 <kmc> this is basically how sopiler alerts work
04:38:11 <kmc> i noticed that typo but not enough fucks were given to fix it.
04:38:13 <Bike> It's true, we went through the plot of finding out what it spoiled: itself.
04:38:20 <elliott> life strategies: call a piece of fiction spoiler alert
04:38:27 <kmc> S P O I L E R C E P T I O N
04:38:40 <elliott> no kmc. no.
04:38:43 <shachaf> oh boy maybe kmc is drunk
04:38:44 <kmc> elliott: that's like naming your band "Unknown Artist"
04:38:49 <shachaf> kmc: on a scale of not drunk to drunk how drunk are you
04:38:50 <Bike> Spoiler alert spoiler alert: it's actually a fairly dry explanation of racing car design
04:38:56 <kmc> shachaf: not drunk
04:39:00 <shachaf> oh
04:39:00 <elliott> kmc: i swear to god i'm going to name something Main Page when i'm rich & famous
04:39:04 <elliott> and wikipedia will have to shut down
04:39:06 <kmc> but maybe... I should be?
04:39:09 <kmc> elliott: hahaha
04:39:13 <Fiora> omg XD
04:39:14 <elliott> there is literally no way they could cope with this
04:39:17 <kmc> elliott: they'll put a disambiguation at the top
04:39:20 <elliott> yes
04:39:22 <elliott> free advertising!!
04:39:28 <Fiora> that's brilliant
04:39:38 <Bike> elliott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disambiguation_(disambiguation) So uh, I have bad news.
04:39:40 <kmc> that is the best idea i've heard in quite a while
04:39:41 <Fiora> ... it might not work though, yeah
04:39:45 <Fiora> Main_Page_(band)
04:39:49 <elliott> it isn't even like that implausible
04:39:54 <elliott> a book about newspapers could be called Main Page
04:40:05 <Bike> haha amazing
04:40:26 <shachaf> main is usually a page
04:40:42 <Bike> also they deal with illegal characters, like in the article on #9 Dream and suchlike
04:40:56 <Bike> you'd have to be subtler. name your band "the weather in london"
04:41:24 <elliott> that's just how to ensure nobody can ever find your band on google
04:41:36 <elliott> well except i am pretty sure i have searched for something named after something like super common
04:41:36 <kmc> "The newly-elected Pope Francis is set to have lunch with his predecessor, Emeritus Pope Benedict, in what is believed to be a pontifical first."
04:41:43 <elliott> and found the named-after-it thing in like three results
04:42:01 <Bike> elliott: "the weather in london" used to be wikipedia example pages' go-to for making a redlink.
04:42:13 <kmc> elliott: there's a band name Δ which is pronounced "Alt-J" because that's how you type it on a Mac.
04:42:18 <kmc> it's reasonably popular even
04:42:19 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_weather_in_London#Aaarrrgh.21 for example
04:42:24 <elliott> oh i'm sorry Bike. you know far more wikipedia trivia than me.
04:42:28 <elliott> i bow before your feet
04:42:32 <Bike> (god do i love wikipedia talk pages)
04:42:33 <kmc> also there's !!!
04:42:36 <elliott> actually i think i did knew that but, like, forgot? because who cares?
04:42:43 <Fiora> That reminds me of um, that band what was it
04:42:44 <Fiora> "The The"
04:42:46 <elliott> kmc: imo alt-j aren't very good
04:42:49 <Fiora> it's like, designed to mess with sorting systems
04:42:52 <elliott> laying down the opinions
04:42:54 <Bike> there's a band called The Band
04:42:54 <kmc> which is often pronounced "chk chk chk" but they say you can use any repetitive noise
04:43:02 <elliott> !!! are better
04:43:07 <Bike> oh isn't !!! some indie whatever
04:43:07 <kmc> Fiora: heh, yeah... I bet a lot of them trim it to the empty string
04:43:12 <kmc> first band in the list!!
04:43:17 <kmc> there's also The Band
04:43:20 <Bike> dancepunk
04:43:22 <Bike> well i fucked that one up
04:43:23 <elliott> <Bike> there's a band called The Band
04:43:24 <elliott> <kmc> there's also The Band
04:43:26 <kmc> :(
04:43:31 <kmc> biked by my own petard
04:43:37 <Bike> elliott: we're acctually referring to two separate bands, conveniently
04:43:39 <shachaf> kmc was more concise
04:43:41 <shachaf> imo he wins
04:43:43 <elliott> Bike: any genre which is two genre names put together probably counts as indie whatever well enough
04:43:49 <kmc> shachaf: itt: golf
04:43:54 <Bike> yeah but i thought it involved yoni wolf somehow
04:44:49 <Sgeo> Idea: A channel that has some bot that attempts to compress every line said via a variety of schemes, and if it can make it smaller, the person who said it is muted
04:45:07 <elliott> ok i am compeltely unable to come up with evidence for a second the band
04:45:10 <elliott> are you deceiving me Bike
04:45:42 <Bike> Sgeo: you realize there's a scheme for any possible text that can shorten it
04:46:04 <Bike> elliott: no just search for "The Other Band" i'm telling you man
04:46:08 <Sgeo> The output is required to be ASCII
04:46:15 <Sgeo> *printable ASCII
04:46:17 <Bike> what's that matter
04:46:27 <elliott> Bike: The Other is a German horror punk band. It is considered the most prominent example of the horror punk genre in Europe.
04:46:43 <Bike> how jungian
04:46:52 <kmc> Sgeo: that's like that one xkcd channel
04:47:00 <Bike> haha r9k
04:47:05 <kmc> where you get kicked for saying anything that has been said before
04:47:07 <Sgeo> kmc, it's worse than that xkcd channel. People speak English in that channel
04:47:20 <Sgeo> This would be... some sort of weird code
04:47:29 <Sgeo> That needs to be translated into something readable
04:47:49 <kmc> xkcd is kind of a shit comic now, but RM and the people around him pretty consistently have some cool ideas
04:47:54 <kmc> i should read more of what-if
04:48:09 <Bike> there's seriously no way to make a text uncompressible by any scheme though didn't you even pay attention in information theory
04:48:38 <elliott> kmc: randall munroe spoke up in #haskell when someone was using the nick xkcd earlier today
04:48:41 <elliott> it was kind of surreal
04:48:50 <Bike> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sharovipteryx_BW.jpg CAWWWWW
04:48:54 <elliott> i had to restrain myself from yelling "your comic sucks now"
04:48:54 <kmc> elliott: what
04:49:11 <elliott> kmc: he's in there right now! watching. silently.
04:49:12 <kmc> now i wonder if he saw all the times I said his comic sucks in #haskell
04:49:16 <elliott> hahaha
04:49:17 <kmc> what's his nick
04:49:19 <kmc> on freenode
04:49:22 <elliott> rmunroe
04:49:26 <kmc> ok
04:49:35 <kmc> i know a lot of people who know him personally
04:49:36 <kmc> MIT people
04:49:49 <kmc> oh god every drawing on what-if has its own title text
04:49:55 <Sgeo> Bike, er.... that makes no sense. Sure, English sentences can be encoded more efficiently than ASCII, but I'm enforcing a restriction to printable ASCII
04:49:56 <Bike> http://aram.xkcd.com/ well, okay.
04:50:04 <elliott> how long until browser UIs show whether there's title text or not
04:50:10 <elliott> can it be like
04:50:11 <elliott> yesterday
04:50:35 <Bike> Sgeo: here's my scheme you compress "This would be... some sort of weird code" into a g
04:50:43 <zzo38> elliott: Just add a plugin or whatever
04:51:21 <elliott> thanks
04:51:31 <Bike> problem: solved
04:52:09 <elliott> Sgeo: btw doesn't your thing involve computing kolgomorov complexity
04:52:18 <elliott> because, good luck
04:52:20 <shachaf> kolmogorov was great
04:52:24 <shachaf> imo kolmogorov++
04:52:30 <Bike> yes
04:52:33 <shachaf> @karma+ kolmogorov # p.great
04:52:33 <lambdabot> kolmogorov's karma raised to 2.
04:52:34 <Sgeo> elliott, ideally, but we assume the bot is imperfect
04:52:38 <Sgeo> It tries, but hey
04:52:44 <Bike> that assumption is boring
04:53:00 <Bike> if it's just a few schemes then you're just adapting to its schemes
04:53:26 <Bike> don't use four characters in a row because it'll runlength it or w/e/t/f
04:53:43 <elliott> i like http://what-if.xkcd.com/36/
04:53:49 <Sgeo> Probably more like "Use this encoder/decoder"
04:54:13 <Bike> the questioner pours cornstarch into a drain
04:54:13 <shachaf> i like http://www.monoids.com/
04:54:52 <Bike> I bought a ton of bitcoins back when they were a few cents each.
04:55:01 <elliott> shachaf: so you're back to liking the monoids thing.
04:55:50 <shachaf> Don't we all?
04:56:05 <Sgeo> I need to buy cornstarch
04:57:01 <Bike> oh huh haskell is mentioned in r5rs. i keep forgetting it's older than me
04:57:47 <elliott> ruby is uh
04:57:50 <elliott> aw a few months younger than me
04:58:00 <elliott> i mean public release wise
04:58:07 <elliott> maybe java
04:58:25 <elliott> ok wikipedia doesn't specify a month for java & i give up
04:58:53 <Bike> Huh Wikipedia desribes Ruby as being Smalltalk with Perl syntax, haha.
04:59:13 * Sgeo prefers his Smalltalk to have Smalltalk syntax
04:59:33 <Bike> That hardly sounds very sexy sgeo.
05:00:02 <Sgeo> You know what's sexy? Any language with Tcl syntax
05:00:28 <shachaf> Transmission Control Language
05:01:10 <elliott> is there anything more irritating than programmers describing code as sexy
05:01:11 <elliott> imo no
05:01:30 <Bike> Being irritated is unsexy.
05:01:41 <Sgeo> Technically I did not call code sexy
05:01:50 <Bike> elliott: http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/Week-of-Mon-20070219/044101.html
05:02:10 <elliott> Bike: no i've seen this. i don't want to see it again.
05:02:33 <shachaf> elliott: it's pretty irritating when people say "technically" imo
05:02:36 <Bike> Would you say that this is, in some fashion, like "a girl"??
05:03:06 <elliott> Bike: no look it gets better http://www.xent.com/pipermail/fork/Week-of-Mon-20070219/044106.html "BTW, beware her evil semi-look-alike: O'Caml. She's actually a he. O'Caml's a cross-dresser. But easy --- if you're into that sort of thing."
05:03:10 <elliott> PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES, GUYS?????
05:03:18 <Bike> Oh, christ.
05:03:38 <Bike> chriiiiiist
05:03:41 <shachaf> imo good analogy
05:03:50 <shachaf> the best analogy??
05:03:59 <shachaf> finally we've found something better than car analogies
05:04:08 <Bike> so this xent thing is basically the daily mail right
05:04:27 <elliott> is that a topical reference
05:04:28 <elliott> nice try american
05:04:47 <kmc> i too have opinions about the daily mail
05:05:02 <Sgeo> Something something the Daily Mail song something
05:05:03 <Bike> Yeah that chick who killed herself because some guy named Littlebottom or suchlike is series of negative exclamations
05:05:04 <kmc> Bike: you're a 90's kid?
05:05:11 <shachaf> we all are
05:05:12 <Bike> nobody remembers the 90s :'(
05:05:14 <kmc> not me
05:05:19 <shachaf> you're literally the oldest person in the world
05:05:20 <elliott> Bike: i mean we don't generally consider littlejohn human.
05:05:27 <kmc> "If you want a vision of the 90s, imagine a Nickelodeon Moon Shoe stamping on a human face-- forever."
05:05:33 <shachaf> face++
05:05:40 <Bike> elliott: living in britannia sure is hard
05:05:46 <shachaf> I spent the 90s on a different continent.
05:05:53 <Bike> how different
05:05:54 <shachaf> I don't think there was any Nickelodeon.
05:05:55 <elliott> it's like he's on a lifelong campaign to distance himself from the notion
05:06:15 <shachaf> Bike: it's a seriously alternative continent, i doubt you've heard of it
05:06:20 <kmc> the best is that then the mail took down the article
05:06:26 <Bike> but anyway yes http://web.archive.org/web/20121221195332/http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2251347/Nathan-Uptons-wrong-body--hes-wrong-job.html sucks sucks suuuuucks
05:06:35 <elliott> kmc: it's like how when you close your eyes things disappear
05:06:45 <Bike> i'm still angry about it /even after/ hearing the daily mail song
05:06:47 <Bike> it's amazing.
05:07:07 <elliott> i haven't heard the daily mail song so it's probably some kind of american fabrication
05:07:21 <elliott> sorry guys, you can't hope to approach our special relationship with the daily mail
05:07:45 <Bike> It's literally a guy playing soft guitar over himself reading out Daily Mail headlines. That's the song.
05:07:46 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI
05:08:20 <Sgeo> Bike, I assume that not all of those headlines are really from the Daily Mail
05:08:23 <elliott> well we just call that monday.
05:08:30 <elliott> Sgeo: that's a seriously unsafe assumption.
05:08:34 <elliott> for basically any set of headlines
05:08:56 <elliott> "Help to make sense of the Daily Mail’s ongoing effort to classify every inanimate object into those that cause cancer and those that prevent it." http://kill-or-cure.herokuapp.com/
05:09:05 <Sgeo> "Bears shit in woods"
05:09:14 <Sgeo> I seriously doubt that was a Daily Mail headline
05:09:27 <shachaf> Bike: Hmm, that article is pretty bad.
05:09:44 <Bike> why, yes
05:10:03 <Bike> "We're aware this video won't mean an awful lot if you've never heard of The Daily Mail, but on the plus side, you've never heard of The Daily Mail."
05:10:47 <elliott> guys I think we should be devoting our focus to my last link. because it's fantastic.
05:10:50 <shachaf> I don't really know what the Daily Mail is.
05:10:53 <shachaf> A bad newspaper?
05:11:14 <elliott> shachaf: tabloid is more accurate than newspaper
05:11:28 <elliott> i mean it pretends to be respectable. but it's really not
05:12:21 <Bike> Sgeo: http://busts4justice.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/the-sun-brass-eye-charlotte-church.jpg?w=640 I don't think you "get" the Mail.
05:14:52 <Sgeo> Bike, that headline is just poorly written
05:14:56 <Sgeo> It made me think of the Axe brand
05:14:57 <Sgeo> :/
05:15:15 <kmc> so is the Daily Mail worse than FOX News
05:15:20 <Sgeo> Had to read under it to parse it
05:15:38 <Sgeo> Might as well be a line from Word Disassociation
05:15:59 <Sgeo> But that's still not as bad as "Bears Shit in Woods" would be
05:16:02 <Bike> Sgeo: Well maybe you don't know the context: The headline is about a TV show that spoofed a "paedo hunt" thing popular with e.g. the Mail, where you'd freak out about supposedly pedophiles OUR CHILDREN etc. On the left, a look at a fifteen year old's bust.
05:17:08 <Sgeo> Ah, it's the juxtaposition, ok
05:19:23 <tswett> So, elliott has started to put words together into phrases.
05:19:32 <tswett> Like "owl feet" and "owl tail".
05:19:45 <elliott> practically all I think about is owls, it's true.
05:20:33 <tswett> Today he held a calculator up to his ear and said, "Ewwo? Mama?"
05:20:53 <tswett> So cute. {:$
05:21:12 <Bike> elliott's mama is an owl, huh.
05:23:52 -!- meme|filter has joined.
05:24:19 <elliott> `welcome meme|filter
05:24:27 <HackEgo> meme|filter: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
05:25:44 <meme|filter> so neither esoteric religions, nor poor jokes about them, would be new here?
05:25:57 <Bike> nope. sorry.
05:26:03 <tswett> It might be neat if we had more discussion of those here.
05:26:10 <Bike> I personally do like weird old religions but it's not on topic or whatever.
05:26:11 <meme|filter> ha - was poking thru freenode channel list
05:26:21 <elliott> Bike: good thing we were just talking about esoteric programming languages, right.
05:26:24 <Bike> yazidism 4 lyfe.
05:26:26 <Bike> elliott: Right!
05:26:32 <elliott> right.
05:26:35 <elliott> it's 5:30 am by the way.
05:26:38 <elliott> do i blike
05:26:46 <meme|filter> have you considered the benefits of integrating... say, the Vedas, into the core trunk?
05:26:47 <Bike> For god's sake yes, blike that shit.
05:27:07 <Bike> meme|filter: rigveda's way too crufty, man. shit's got like fifty million commits
05:27:27 <meme|filter> Bike++ @informed
05:27:52 <Bike> well, i've never read it. especially since i don't sanskrit.
05:28:05 <Bike> Mostly I know it's really old. Good religious scholarship up in here.
05:28:11 <elliott> i never sans a krit i didn't like
05:28:19 <Bike> BLIKE
05:28:27 <elliott> i'm bliking. constantly.
05:28:35 <meme|filter> serif don't like it
05:28:39 <meme|filter> rock the casbah
05:29:14 <kmc> ++
05:29:31 <meme|filter> anyhoo, I know jack about esoteric the language. will it help me grow as a person and develop meaningful relationships with others?
05:29:49 <elliott> no
05:29:53 <Bike> You seem to be confused, so yes, it will. Forever.
05:30:11 <elliott> imagine if this channel was only about one language.
05:30:11 <meme|filter> "developers lack a clear roadmap" - check
05:30:14 <elliott> maybe it'd even be on-topic then.
05:30:39 <Bike> is #haskell usually on topic, i have the impression it's mostly use and shachaf banning xkcd??
05:30:48 <Bike> you. that was supposed to be "you" but it wasn't.
05:30:57 <meme|filter> ok so I'll stop the soft troll - have fun folks!
05:31:02 -!- meme|filter has left ("Oops, I parted.").
05:31:24 <Bike> so uh. he actually thought... huh
05:33:09 <elliott> we sure got soft trolled
05:33:21 <Bike> soft trolled right to sleep eh
05:33:27 <elliott> um i dont sleep Bike
05:34:29 <zzo38> Is "If I am drunk then I would push the wrong key by mistake" a such a bad argument that only drunk people will make?
05:34:34 <Bike> Neither do I I'm a goddamn bicycle. Nonetheless I have a duty to tell you to fucking sleep.
05:35:01 <elliott> imo: no
05:45:50 <elliott> i'ms till awake Bike
05:49:32 <Bike> fuck you.
05:52:06 <kmc> in my experience drunk people usually attempt to do calculus as a way of demonstrating that they're not drunk
05:52:48 <shachaf> Oops.
05:52:49 <shachaf> Am I drunk?
05:52:52 <kmc> at least this is the case when people are new to drinking, when the experience is entirely about either proving that no really, you're not that drunk, or about communicating that, in fact, you are so fucking drunk right now
05:53:04 <Bike> what's the experience about later
05:53:57 <kmc> what's your experience about when you're sober?
05:54:14 <Bike> Dim self-hatred and cracking jokes mostly.
05:54:20 <kmc> yeah, that goes well with booze
05:54:21 <zzo38> kmc: I have not seen such things, but maybe it is because I live at a different place. I would suppose they miss, though, like anyone drunk, isn't it?
05:54:25 <shachaf> Don't self-hate, Bike!
05:54:33 <shachaf> elliott is doing enough of that for you.
05:54:45 <Bike> Do I look like elliott to you
05:54:48 <elliott> kmc: http://www.supermegacomics.com/index.php?i=391
05:54:51 <Bike> we have DISTINCT SELVES leibniz said so
05:55:09 <kmc> elliott: haha
05:55:18 <Bike> elliott: oh, that makes sense
05:55:21 <kmc> i'm pretty sure I used calculus for something useful once
05:55:26 <kmc> let's see if I can remember what it was
05:55:52 <zzo38> I have also used calculus, for a few different things
05:55:54 <kmc> well
05:55:55 <shachaf> calculus is like a monoid
05:56:01 <kmc> drawing pretty fractals to entertain stoned people
05:56:05 <zzo38> I don't remember all of them, but I think I know some
05:56:09 <kmc> involves a lot of complex arithmetic and a bit of calculus
05:56:19 <kmc> 'useful'
05:56:26 <elliott> complex arithmetic? i can't even do the simple kind
05:56:35 <Bike> Oh, I think I estimated how far someone went when they had a varying velocity, once or twice.
05:56:47 <zzo38> elliott: O, are you drunk, too?
05:56:48 <shachaf> elliott: The opposite of complex arithmetic is simplex arithmetic.
05:56:59 <Bike> simplexes are "pretty cool"
05:58:35 <elliott> zzo38: yes.
05:58:48 <Bike> Drunk and asleep.
05:58:55 <elliott> no.
05:58:59 <elliott> drunk and painfully awake at 6 am.
05:59:04 <elliott> actually not drunk. which probably makes it worse.
05:59:05 <Bike> imo, yes.
06:00:30 <elliott> clearly i should go and get drunk.
06:00:37 <Bike> yes
06:00:39 <Bike> also asleep
06:00:43 <Bike> possibly both at once
06:01:00 <zzo38> elliott: I disagree, but do it if you want; I don't intend to stop you, I only intend to disrecommend it.
06:01:37 <elliott> #esoteric, where a bicycle gives someone the sage advice to drink themselves to sleep at 6 am.
06:01:56 <shachaf> Bike: You're a bicycle??????????
06:02:46 <Bike> A drunk bicycle.
06:02:47 <shachaf> i forgot to mention im racist against bicycles
06:02:57 <kmc> shachaf: im 1/64 bicycle :(
06:03:38 <shachaf> kmc: now i only like you 63/64 times as much............................................
06:03:40 <shachaf> > 63/64
06:03:42 <lambdabot> 0.984375
06:05:46 <kmc> good enough
06:07:19 <Sgeo> @localtime pikhq_
06:07:20 <lambdabot> Local time for pikhq_ is Sat Mar 23 00:07:19 2013
06:07:25 <Sgeo> Happy birthday pikhq_!
06:07:39 <shachaf> pikhq_: Happy pikhq++ !
06:08:05 <elliott> Bike: all right im going to bed in a few minutes
06:08:07 <elliott> hope you're happy
06:08:29 <Bike> fuck off
06:10:12 <elliott> Bike: im sorry
06:11:23 <shachaf> Bike: be nice to elliott
06:11:29 <shachaf> by be nice i mean insult
06:11:42 <pikhq_> Thanks guys.
06:12:18 <elliott> ok i'll wish pikhq_ a happy birthday but only on the condition that Bike admits he's not actually a bicycle.
06:13:11 <zzo38> I am not actually psychic, either. I also am not actually a television show actor, nor do I play one on television.
06:15:16 <Bike> I won't lie to you, elliott.
06:22:04 <zzo38> Is Mars-Uranus conjunction today?
06:22:33 <elliott> Bike: ok goodnight.
06:22:40 <Bike> later! :)
06:22:58 <elliott> no.
06:23:06 <elliott> fuck you, bicycle.
06:23:12 <elliott> bicycles are the worst.
06:24:05 <shachaf> i love bicycles
06:24:17 <shachaf> Bike: plz keep being a bicycle thx
06:24:29 <Bike> np
06:31:26 <zzo38> I tried to make up a part of something using Verilog; it works in my computer but I don't know if it is proper.
06:34:18 <zzo38> http://sprunge.us/WJYH
06:34:35 <zzo38> It seems sprunge used to emit a space at the beginning of its reponse, and now it doesn't.
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06:40:20 <zzo38> Do you think this is a proper Verilog program?
06:40:39 <zzo38> A few things seems a bit improper to me but hopefully the optimizer would figure them out.
06:45:41 <zzo38> Do you know whether or not this is true?
06:46:21 <Bike> can't say I do.
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08:47:28 <Sgeo> Are there web-based VNC clients?
08:47:36 <Sgeo> e.g. something that might work in Chrome OS?
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08:58:30 <fizzie> There's at least one JavaScript VNC client. Probably more.
09:00:24 <fizzie> I have no idea how okayish they are w.r.t. performance and such.
09:01:10 <fizzie> I also have a vague feeling https://github.com/kanaka/noVNC is the one I ran across before.
09:01:17 <kmc> sgeo did you google chrome os vnc client
09:01:31 <kmc> note that Chrome OS can run a lot of things that aren't traditional "web pages"
09:01:50 <kmc> it can do chrome apps with native code (NaCl) components and privileged access to network etc
09:02:03 <kmc> i mean obv. you can't talk VNC protocol on port 5900 from a vanilla web page
09:02:08 <kmc> so maybe I didn't need to point that out
09:02:20 <zzo38> I think you can run local programs on Chrome OS too but you need to enable a switch, and then you can run it in the Linux command-line interface, or something like that, but first you need to change the permission, I am not exactly sure but something like it
09:04:08 <fizzie> kmc: Apparently there are VNC servers that support connecting with the WebSocket thing these days.
09:04:37 <kmc> ah
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09:13:06 <Sgeo> kmc, well, was thinking of talking to a server that translated... but that may be unnecessary
09:18:17 <fizzie> You can talk to any number of websocket-to-plain-TCP-connection proxy things from a web page, FWIW.
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09:50:39 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/riddles/comments/1auahj/whats_the_next_line/
09:50:50 <Sgeo> My failure at this riddle proves that I suck
09:51:58 <fizzie> How does a printer with USB connectivity only can have a "security feature" of "IP filtering"?
09:52:11 <fizzie> I guess it's a pretty effective sort of IP filter to not put a network connection in.
09:55:29 <fizzie> I don't know if it'd prove that normally, but perhaps for an #esoteric regular, given that look-and-say is like a weekly topic here? (That's pretty close.)
09:56:08 <Sgeo> It looks so much like look-and-say but isn't quite
09:56:34 <Sgeo> The fact that I failed to figure out what it actually is...
09:56:52 <Sgeo> (Obviously I could tell it wasn't vanilla look-and-say)
09:59:11 <fizzie> It's look-and-say for the kind of obsessive-compulsive person who alphabetizes books in other people's bookshelves.
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10:01:13 <Sgeo> I like this version better
10:01:22 <Sgeo> Get more variety of digits
10:01:41 <Sgeo> I thin
10:01:43 <Sgeo> k
10:02:28 <Sgeo> Hmm
10:02:35 <Sgeo> I should check that.
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10:06:14 <Sgeo> On the other hand, I should sleep
10:06:17 <fizzie> > iterate (read . concatMap (ap ((++) . show . length) (take 1)) . group . reverse . sort . show) 1 -- making it the sort of "real Haskell" that nobody can understand without being familiar with the latest-and-greatest high-concept libraries left as an exercise to the reader
10:06:19 <lambdabot> [1,11,21,1211,1231,131221,132231,232221,134211,14131231,14231241,24132231,1...
10:07:09 <fizzie> > take 10 . drop 100 $ iterate (read . concatMap (ap ((++) . show . length) (take 1)) . group . reverse . sort . show) 1 -- also, there's this
10:07:11 <lambdabot> [14233221,14233221,14233221,14233221,14233221,14233221,14233221,14233221,14...
10:07:18 <fizzie> (Not too much variety there.)
10:07:26 <Sgeo> :(
10:08:15 <Sgeo> You don't get 4s in vanilla look-and-say though
10:08:23 <Sgeo> Hmm, what about sorting in the other direction
10:08:38 <Sgeo> > take 10 . drop 100 $ iterate (read . concatMap (ap ((++) . show . length) (take 1)) . group . sort . show) 1
10:08:40 <lambdabot> [21322314,21322314,21322314,21322314,21322314,21322314,21322314,21322314,21...
10:13:15 <oklopol> if you say "Y is 15 meters and 140 degrees from X", what does that mean?
10:13:21 <oklopol> is there a reasonable standard?
10:20:07 <Sgeo> It means depending on number of dimensions, Y may be at one of two points, or along a circle, or maybe a sphere?
10:29:07 <oklopol> we're talking about earth
10:32:09 <fizzie> So it's 15 metres south-eastish from X.
10:36:14 <fizzie> (At least in nautical (and I understand aeronautical) use, you can say "heading X", where X is in degrees, with north as 0, east as 90, south as 180 and west as 270.)
10:39:41 <Sgeo> Hmm. Came across a language that seems like it's effectively some stuff around an IO [a] in Haskell terms
10:45:55 <Sgeo> @hoogle liftM
10:45:55 <lambdabot> Control.Monad liftM :: Monad m => (a1 -> r) -> m a1 -> m r
10:45:55 <lambdabot> Control.Monad liftM2 :: Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m r
10:45:55 <lambdabot> Control.Monad liftM3 :: Monad m => (a1 -> a2 -> a3 -> r) -> m a1 -> m a2 -> m a3 -> m r
10:47:10 <Sgeo> Blah, I know it's only 5 lines, but writing the Functor and Applicative instance for custom monads is boring
10:47:16 <Sgeo> *5 trivial lines
10:47:44 <Sgeo> @hoogle Applicative
10:47:45 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative class Functor f => Applicative f
10:47:45 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative module Control.Applicative
10:47:45 <lambdabot> package applicative-extras
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10:55:45 <Sgeo> Can't tell if it's an IO [a] or an [IO a]
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13:37:10 <tat2s4u> freaks
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13:41:14 <ThatOtherPerson> I dissent.
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15:11:08 <fizzie> You dissident.
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15:13:15 <ThatOtherPerson> That I am!
15:30:24 * ThatOtherPerson is debating whether or not to finish my Lisp interpreter
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15:48:10 <fizzie> Man, this spam has quite the eventful storyline: http://sprunge.us/PdjE
15:48:32 <fizzie> They poisoned him to dead! And the other woman has "eight (8) children".
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15:50:08 <fizzie> ThatOtherPerson: 2 is two, though.
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15:50:18 <ThatOtherPerson> That is true
15:50:48 <ThatOtherPerson> It is very nice of the author to remind us of that fact.
15:50:54 <fizzie> "My father was murdered two (3) months ago."
15:51:10 <Bike> i don't know what to believe
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18:17:12 <Sgeo> I should eat food
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18:23:38 <olsner> Sgeo: do it
18:23:44 -!- Bike has joined.
18:23:47 <olsner> *do eat
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18:36:10 <ThatOtherPerson> Food is good!
18:37:36 <Arc_Koen> Coffee is freaky!
18:37:55 <Arc_Koen> Water is bitter!
18:39:19 <Arc_Koen> how are you ThatOtherPerson?
18:46:09 <Bike> so does anyone know what the point of LIA is
18:46:41 <elliott> whats a lia
18:47:06 <Bike> language-independent arithmetic
18:47:14 <Bike> apparently so called because no language actually implements it?
18:47:20 <ThatOtherPerson> Arc_Koen: I am that other person by virtue of me saying so!
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18:47:39 <ThatOtherPerson> I am also quite fine if that was the object of your inquiry
18:47:54 <Bike> "i exist quite finely"
18:48:31 <Arc_Koen> good
18:49:03 <elliott> Bike: this looks boring.
18:49:06 <Bike> it is
18:49:30 <Bike> but i've read like nine language standards now that have "LIA exists but we don't conform to it" somewhere and i'm wondering what the deal is
18:49:47 <Bike> haskell, r5rs, C...
18:50:22 <Sgeo> LIA?
18:50:36 <Sgeo> Oh
18:50:37 <Bike> losers in al-darayya
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19:33:18 <Gregor> Note to self: If you show your cat affection by kissing, she may decide to show affection by nibbling.
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19:42:14 <oerjan> <-- ole is basically danish/norwegian, oleg is basically russian. i am not sure that the names are even related. (ole is from norse ola[fv]r.)
19:42:17 <oerjan> um
19:42:20 <elliott> hi
19:42:24 <kmc> Bike: did you see that the Syrian rebels built a trebuchet based on plans from American trebuchet hobbyists
19:42:24 <Bike> noted
19:42:26 <oerjan> <Bike> Ole is basically like Oleg. <-- ole is basically danish/norwegian, oleg is basically russian. i am not sure that the names are even related. (ole is from norse ola[fv]r.)
19:42:41 <Bike> kmc: i've seen enough of their slingshots to believe anything
19:42:49 <kmc> also a tank with an android-powered remote control gun turret
19:42:58 <kmc> http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2013/02/diy-weapons-of-the-syrian-rebels/100461/
19:43:02 <Bike> yeah those things always pop up, i kinda doubt they actually use them though
19:43:33 <kmc> the mortar shell in #6 looks damn good, I don't see why it's considered "improvised"
19:44:18 <Bike> probably because smoking in a machine shop full of mortars is silly enough to make everything improvised
19:44:32 <kmc> this is the kind of shit we built for Ditch Day hijinx in college
19:44:41 <kmc> who knew it would be useful for fighting the government
19:44:42 <Bike> wow, that's a hell of a catapult
19:44:46 <kmc> (answer: we did, we talked about it all the time)
19:45:22 <Bike> seeing syrian ordinance now just makes me think of the far too many videos of kids playing with unexploded missiles i've seen
19:45:42 <kmc> D:
19:45:52 <Bike> oh, there's the PS2 picture.
19:45:52 <kmc> re smoking: hopefully they fill the explosives off-site
19:45:55 <kmc> but, probably not
19:46:17 <kmc> i was really hoping to see an arduino in one of these
19:46:25 <kmc> then they can be on hack a day
19:46:46 <kmc> ok fine http://hackaday.com/2012/12/10/homemade-tank-joins-the-battle-in-syria/
19:46:51 <Bike> man they have so damn many of those soviet AAs
19:47:09 <kmc> is that what they put in the back of that truck
19:47:32 <Bike> yeah, it's a ZU-23. there are approximately four trillion extant
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19:47:58 <kmc> also is it really wise for them to let foreign journalists take photos and videos of this stuff
19:48:14 <Bike> psh, they take their own videos
19:48:19 <kmc> well both but
19:48:31 <Bike> that said there has been something of a kerfuffle lately due to a British journalist figuring out htey got a lot of weapons from Croatia
19:48:37 <Bike> which is "legal", as i'm sure you can guess
19:51:14 <kmc> there's probably a gun somewhere in the world that fired at Nazis in 1944, Americans in 1971, Bosnians in 1993 and Syrians in 2012
19:51:38 <Bike> did you know: they used maxims from the russian civil war up through korea
19:52:22 <Bike> probably not nazis though, StG isn't really soviet ordinance
19:52:53 <Bike> well, i guess they used like biplanes in korea
19:55:32 <kmc> Bike: heh
19:56:18 <Bike> and then back in WWII they had those planes that were so bad the germans couldn't figure out what to do about them, etc
19:56:27 <kmc> 'Soviet aircraft were adorned with North Korean or Chinese markings and pilots wore either North Korean uniforms or civilian clothes, to disguise their origins. For radio communication, they were given cards with common Korean words for various flying terms spelled out phonetically in Cyrillic characters.[4] These subterfuges did not long survive the fury of air-to-air combat, however, and pilots were soon routinely communicating in R
19:56:39 <Bike> soon routinely communicating in R
19:56:44 <kmc> ussian.
19:56:44 <Bike> but yeah it's hard to imagine that working
19:56:51 <Bike> 'top secret'
19:57:14 <kmc> i like the idea of poorly pronounced Korean immediately giving way to Russian profanity on the radio
20:02:21 <kmc> ahhh gun nuts on reddit arguing about whether a 7.62x54R round will go through this improvised tank
20:02:53 <Bike> that Sham thing? somehow i think government troops have enough ordinance to kill it
20:02:58 <elliott> how did you get past "gun nuts on reddit arguing about" to actually finding out what they're arguing about
20:03:02 <kmc> http://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/14ljlk/syrias_homemade_tank/
20:03:14 <fizzie> Misread "nuns on reddit arguing about whether a 7.62x54R round will go through this improvised tank".
20:03:17 <kmc> Bike: well a missile will blow it to holy living fuck
20:03:19 <Bike> also the rebels have /actual tanks/ so
20:03:35 <kmc> it's more a question of, is it good against any threat at all
20:04:22 <Bike> i imagine it probably does some good, as having pieces of metal in front of you as you stroll through shells tends to do, but there's only like two of it anyway, no?
20:05:08 <kmc> yeah
20:05:30 <kmc> or it might just attract attention
20:05:42 <kmc> if you see three pickup trucks and this fucking thing, which one are you going to use your grenade on
20:05:46 <Bike> it's in Homs, right?
20:05:51 <kmc> i don't know where it is
20:05:51 <FreeFull> You can make a pretty effective tank if you use concrete
20:07:09 <Bike> my personal favorite syria tank tidbit might be that abkhazian interview with a gov't tank commander, who's like "well the left side armor is only held on by one bolt and sometimes falls off, but you know besides that, pretty great tank"
20:07:25 <kmc> heh
20:07:27 <kmc> some russian tank?
20:07:46 <Bike> t-72
20:08:07 <Bike> (so yes)
20:08:23 <Bike> things don't have air conditioning. you kinda gotta feel sorry for the operators.
20:08:29 <kmc> :(
20:09:00 <kmc> russians had lots of problems with tanks in urban combat in chechnya and afghanistan
20:09:02 <Bike> on the other hand they can sort of take neutron bombs. priorities!
20:09:10 <kmc> haha
20:09:28 <Bike> well afghanistan just has the worst terrain ever, and in chechnya they drove 'em through alleys
20:11:12 <kmc> no AC sounds really bad if you are also keeping a totally sealed interior to avoid NBC contamination
20:13:46 <Bike> i wouldn't be surprised if they opened it up some on the ground, since the chance of rebels using NBC is pretty low
20:14:21 <kmc> i meant in the hypothetical scenario it was designed for
20:14:36 <kmc> i.e. driving to West Germany at top speed after nuking the Fulda Gap
20:14:44 <Bike> oh, yeah
20:15:13 <Bike> but they've gotten used a lot in like iraq and syria and other not-european-climate places
20:18:03 <oerjan> `? elliott
20:18:20 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire.
20:18:34 <elliott> hi
20:19:13 <oerjan> `run sed -e 's/$/ And a lystrosaur.' wisdom/elliott
20:19:15 <HackEgo> sed: -e expression #1, char 22: unterminated `s' command
20:19:17 <oerjan> oops
20:19:24 <oerjan> `run sed -e 's/$/ And a lystrosaur./' wisdom/elliott
20:19:26 <HackEgo> elliott wrote this learn DB, and wrote or improved many of the other commands in this bot. He probably has done other things? He is also tire. And a lystrosaur.
20:19:30 <oerjan> oops
20:19:36 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/$/ And a lystrosaur./' wisdom/elliott
20:19:41 <HackEgo> No output.
20:19:50 <Bike> imo good lystrosaur
20:21:47 <oerjan> <kmc> no AC sounds really bad if you are also keeping a totally sealed interior to avoid NBC contamination <-- i think making AC work when you are keeping a totally sealed interior may be sort of expensive.
20:22:36 <kmc> tanks are sort of expensive
20:22:39 <kmc> but yeah
20:24:35 <kmc> but it's compatible with the basic design of an air conditioner
20:26:04 <kmc> you're pumping heat between two metal coils; the medium of exchange is a sealed liquid/gas and the air flow over those coils is totally separate
20:26:07 <kmc> http://www.ductpro.com/images/AC_diagram.jpg
20:28:19 <kmc> those freestanding ACs that have a tube that goes to the window are not very efficient
20:28:43 <oerjan> ah
20:29:23 <kmc> either they're cooling air from the outside, which is hotter than the air already in your room, or they're sucking just-cooled air back out of your room to heat it up and blow it back outside
20:29:30 <kmc> you really need /two/ tubes
20:34:25 <oerjan> i think we norwegian just don't have the intuition for this because you know, outside air being hotter? what nonsense is this?
20:34:32 <oerjan> *+s
20:34:33 <kmc> yeah
20:38:02 <kmc> and while you could heat a house in this manner, it's not that efficient
20:38:06 <kmc> compared to just burning shit
20:39:11 <oerjan> `addquote <kmc> living in the middle ages sounds a lot better once you realize that deep frying had already been invented
20:39:13 <fizzie> I wonder why ais523_anticipation.bfjoust is full of empty loops like ()*1194 and ()*1181 and so on.
20:39:15 <HackEgo> 988) <kmc> living in the middle ages sounds a lot better once you realize that deep frying had already been invented
20:39:20 <kmc> but I think it is done sometimes
20:39:36 <kmc> in climates where you need slight air conditioning half of the year and slight heating the other half
20:39:48 <kmc> and want to use the same equipment for both
20:39:51 <kmc> but I don't know the details
20:39:54 <oerjan> kmc: in norway these days, heat pumps are all the rage.
20:40:06 <kmc> do you have geothermal heating there?
20:40:46 <oerjan> some do
20:41:12 <oerjan> the neighbor made a hell of a noise drilling down into the ground to install them a couple years ago
20:41:45 <oerjan> or wait
20:42:09 <oerjan> hm yes
20:43:43 <kmc> my house has powerful HVAC, but the thermostat is downstairs and my room upstairs is consistently 10 degrees warmer in the winter and cooler in the summer
20:43:56 <kmc> so I either open the windows while the heating / AC is running, which is dumb
20:44:02 <kmc> or i have to block and unblock the vents all the time
20:44:11 <kmc> thinking of building a thermostat gadget to do the latter for me
20:45:41 <oerjan> 04:36:09: <elliott> also america didn't exist before white people got there.
20:45:41 <oerjan> 04:36:19: <elliott> it was invented a priori
20:45:51 <oerjan> i think you mean "a posteriori" hth
20:46:33 <elliott> oerjan: whats this got to do with posteriors
20:46:44 <elliott> i actually meant a priori but in retrospect it did not make any sense
20:47:09 <oerjan> elliott: if it were a priori, america _would_ have existed from the beginning duh. in fact before the rest of the universe.
20:47:55 <oerjan> elliott: also posteriors is where we are extracting this from
20:48:00 <elliott> wait since when is this about how old oerjan is
20:48:43 <oerjan> `log entirely fictitious
20:49:14 <HackEgo> 2013-03-23.txt:20:48:43: <oerjan> `log entirely fictitious
20:49:19 <oerjan> `pastlog entirely fictitious
20:49:28 <HackEgo> No output.
20:49:39 <oerjan> i may have completely imagined saying that.
20:49:40 <shachaf> "All persons, living and dead, are purely coincidental."
20:50:49 <oerjan> no similes were hurt during the production of this movie.
20:51:39 <oerjan> `pastlog oerjan.*in about.*i will
20:51:47 <HackEgo> No output.
20:51:55 <oerjan> yep, completely imagining
20:52:05 <elliott> in about i will entirely fictitious. --OERJAN
20:52:15 <oerjan> elliott: something like that yes
20:52:47 <oerjan> `pastelogs oerjan>.*entirely
20:53:04 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.18375
20:56:05 <oerjan> ah there
20:56:06 <oerjan> 2011-12-10.txt:13:28:44: <oerjan> <monqy> 42 is such a boring fake age <-- in about half a year i shall be entirely fake. yay!
20:56:56 <shachaf> oldrjan
20:57:18 <elliott> oerjan: yikes are you like 43 now
20:57:19 <oerjan> in about three months i might become real again.
20:57:26 <elliott> i'm so sorry
20:57:29 <oerjan> elliott: not YET
20:57:40 <shachaf> oerjan: can we round you up to 50 yet
20:57:44 <shachaf> imo yes
20:57:47 <oerjan> not YET
20:57:54 <elliott> is fizzie 30 yet
20:58:05 <oerjan> i thought fizzie had always been 30
21:00:28 <oerjan> i think i may at one time have thought that fizzie were older than me
21:01:16 <oerjan> or maybe i have through time confused fizzie with someone else who actually was, but who has left
21:02:48 <oerjan> not entirely related, but does anyone know how old cpressey is
21:03:13 <oerjan> ?
21:04:20 <oerjan> <shachaf> before columbus invented america there was only europe <-- that is not true, marco polo invented china before that
21:05:46 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds).
21:17:09 <oerjan> <Sgeo> Idea: A channel that has some bot that attempts to compress every line said via a variety of schemes, and if it can make it smaller, the person who said it is muted
21:17:56 <fizzie> There's that one place where they enforce originality by bot.
21:18:06 <oerjan> that was already mentioned in the logs
21:18:12 <fizzie> Ah.
21:18:37 <oerjan> i was just going to suggest some schemes. about 256 of them, to be precise.
21:19:08 <oerjan> but then i realized my metascheme didn't quite work
21:19:24 <shachaf> How about a scheme where if you put two spaces after a '.' you're muted?
21:20:56 <oerjan> that's not funny, shachaf.
21:21:14 <shachaf> Neither is putting two spaces after a '.'.
21:21:57 <oerjan> i may have put two spaces after . since before you were born, shachaf. i suggest showing some respect
21:22:13 <shachaf> It is likely that you have.
21:52:15 <FreeFull> Sgeo: What if people write things out as multiple lines of single characters?
21:52:34 <FreeFull> fizzie: #xkcd-something or something
21:52:45 <FreeFull> #xkcd-signal
21:52:45 <oerjan> <kmc> oh god every drawing on what-if has its own title text <-- CURSE YOU KMC
21:55:23 <FreeFull> my cabbages!
21:58:29 <FireFly> ...they have?
21:59:01 <oerjan> well, i suppose kmc _might_ be lying.
21:59:08 <fizzie> oerjan: I spontaneously noticed that two what-if's ago.
21:59:14 <fizzie> Or maybe one.
21:59:21 <fizzie> The one with the hairdryer.
22:01:27 <FreeFull> oerjan: kmc isn't lying
22:02:38 <shachaf> i suppose _FreeFull_ might be lying
22:02:57 <shachaf> Er.
22:03:08 <shachaf> I'm too used to __ing capitalised things!
22:05:24 <oerjan> <shachaf> Bike: it's a seriously alternative continent, i doubt you've heard of it <-- hipstrael?
22:05:36 <elliott> israel the continent
22:07:14 <ion> and/or the incontinent
22:07:26 <oerjan> i suddenly realize that israel has no problems that wouldn't be solved by making it a continent.
22:08:35 <oerjan> well, properly, not like that europe half-hearted thing
22:08:48 <FreeFull> This smothering ocean of high-pressure meat would wipe out most life on the planet
22:09:16 <shachaf> europe is more of a peninsula imo
22:09:19 * oerjan for a moment was wondering what FreeFull's comment had to do with israel.
22:09:33 <oerjan> then i remembered the what-if.
22:13:03 -!- ogrom has quit (Quit: Left).
22:14:04 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:18:19 <oerjan> <elliott> do i blike <-- what is this word
22:18:30 <elliott> blame bike
22:18:37 <oerjan> aha
22:18:51 <oerjan> good portmanteau. should find frequent use.
22:18:59 <oerjan> *+
22:22:29 <oerjan> <kmc> in my experience drunk people usually attempt to do calculus as a way of demonstrating that they're not drunk <-- i have resembled that remark. well, actually i did it to prove i could to calculus when drunk, not to prove i wasn't drunk.
22:22:38 <oerjan> *do
22:23:11 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
22:23:43 <oerjan> or maybe i just did it because the party was boring and hey, calculus! it was a long time ago.
22:24:18 * oerjan maybe should clarify he is currently sober.
22:25:16 <shachaf> soboerjan
22:31:17 -!- esowiki has joined.
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22:31:19 -!- glogbackup has left.
22:31:21 -!- esowiki has joined.
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22:39:21 <oerjan> <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/riddles/comments/1auahj/whats_the_next_line/
22:41:48 <oerjan> looks like a slight variation of the "pea pattern" variation mentioned on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Look-and-say_sequence#Variations
22:42:10 <oerjan> there used to be a pea pattern article, but it was merged.
22:47:10 -!- fizzie has joined.
22:47:32 <kmc> it would be great to start a webcomic, let it get really popular, and then add title text to all the old strips and act like it was always there
22:48:21 <elliott> unfortunately the level you'd have to be for people to care is also the level where people will be obsessing over your html anyway
22:48:40 <shachaf> There should be a comic that uses actual alt text rather than title text.
22:49:18 <kmc> webcomic for the blind
22:49:39 <kmc> Queens of the Stone Age has an album named Songs for the Deaf
22:49:49 <kmc> unfortunately it's not just a series of extremely loud low bass rumbles
22:50:16 <nooodl> > let f = (group . reverse . sort) >=> (\x -> [length x, head x]) in iterate f [1]
22:50:18 <lambdabot> [[1],[1,1],[2,1],[1,2,1,1],[1,2,3,1],[1,3,1,2,2,1],[1,3,2,2,3,1],[2,3,2,2,2...
22:50:55 <oerjan> kmc: hey iwc has vision-impaired transcripts
22:50:59 <kmc> cool
22:51:22 <elliott> shit the rerun is like
22:51:22 * kmc has been learning a little bit about web accessibility
22:51:27 <elliott> a fourth of the way through
22:51:40 <kmc> http://www.slideshare.net/dreamwidth/web-accessibility-for-the-21st-century is a good slide deck about it
22:52:00 <kmc> elliott: you know dinosaur comics has at least 3 hidden thingys
22:52:53 <elliott> kmc: yeah
22:52:56 <elliott> kmc: i only bother reading the title text one
22:52:59 <elliott> kmc: because it's too much work
22:53:08 <elliott> and the comics themselves are funny enough that I don't really care
22:53:26 <shachaf> nooodl: [1,2,3,1]/
22:53:36 <shachaf> ?
22:53:45 -!- zzo38 has joined.
22:53:47 <nooodl> see: oerjan's link
22:54:07 <oerjan> well Sgeo's link which i quoted
22:54:33 <shachaf> Ah, I see.
22:54:37 <oerjan> the wikipedia one doesn't have quite that particular variation
22:55:18 <oerjan> nooodl: (\x -> [length x, head x]) is sequence [length, head]
22:56:08 <nooodl> > sequence [length, head] [1,2,3,4,5]
22:56:10 <lambdabot> [5,1]
22:56:42 <nooodl> hmm... is doing fancy list monad stuff like that generally considered readable
22:57:09 <oerjan> it's also ([length, head] ??) using the lens operator
22:57:13 <oerjan> :t flip
22:57:14 <lambdabot> (a -> b -> c) -> b -> a -> c
22:57:25 <Bike> :t (>=>)
22:57:27 <lambdabot> Monad m => (a -> m b) -> (b -> m c) -> a -> m c
22:57:29 <oerjan> once upon a time caleskell flip would have worked too
22:58:49 <nooodl> from memory, f >=> g = (\x -> f x >>= g). i hope that's right
22:58:58 <oerjan> yeah
22:58:59 <elliott> oerjan: distribute works too!
22:59:02 <elliott> :t distribute [length, head]
22:59:03 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `distribute'
22:59:03 <lambdabot> Perhaps you meant `distrib' (imported from Control.Lens)
22:59:06 <elliott> oops.
22:59:24 <oerjan> elliott: i recall we discussed that
23:00:44 <elliott> yes
23:00:53 <elliott> edwardk decided against it because (??) is infix, I think
23:01:05 <elliott> you could only use it for a non-(->) instance if you applied it like ((??) foo), which is ridiculous
23:01:48 <oerjan> um (foo ??) should work perfectly well...
23:01:51 <oerjan> oh wait
23:02:09 <oerjan> i see
23:02:21 <elliott> IIRC (foo ??) is actually (\bar -> foo ?? bar)
23:02:28 <oerjan> (although that _would_ work with ghc's postfix-operators extension)
23:02:39 <elliott> I think GHC uses ((??) foo) as the semantics but types it like the latter
23:03:05 <oerjan> the extension turns off the type restriction
23:03:48 <elliott> I meant with no extensions
23:05:06 <Sgeo> Hmm, can reverse look-and-say from a random seed be interesting?
23:05:40 <elliott> say and look
23:07:28 <oerjan> Sgeo: reversing count and digit commutes with reversing the string before and after, so you don't get anything essentially new
23:08:19 <Sgeo> o.O ?
23:09:10 <FreeFull> "I have to say—from a dimensional analysis standpoint, ”poops” is one of the strangest units I’ve ever tried to cancel in an equation."
23:09:36 <oerjan> ordinary: 1 -> 11 -> 21 -> 1211 -> 111221; reversed: 1 -> 11 -> 12 -> 1121 -> 122111
23:09:49 <oerjan> Sgeo: or do you mean something else by reverse LAS
23:10:16 <Sgeo> I meant going from 1121 to 12
23:10:26 <oerjan> oh hm
23:11:08 <Sgeo> The question is, what to do when you hit an odd number of digits. Die?
23:11:12 <oerjan> um, 1211 to 21, i assume
23:11:20 <Sgeo> Although, if there's a 0, odd number of digits could be sensible
23:11:33 <Sgeo> oerjan, erm, yeah. Was looking at the second sequence by mistake
23:12:58 <elliott> 2111 to 111 presumably
23:13:56 <zzo38> Going from 1211 to 21 would be run length decoding, I think
23:14:07 <zzo38> Going forwards is run length encoding
23:14:49 <oerjan> zzo38: the minor problem is that those aren't inverses because of what elliott mentions
23:15:05 <oerjan> even apart from the odd length problem
23:15:07 <elliott> oh i wasn't even intending to make a point. i just did accidentally
23:15:14 <zzo38> Yes, I know, they arenot really inverse
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23:18:12 <oerjan> Sgeo: i don't really see how 0's help
23:22:35 <Sgeo> 101
23:22:39 <Sgeo> ten ones
23:22:43 <Sgeo> 1011
23:22:52 <Sgeo> one 0, one 1
23:24:13 <oerjan> ah ok
23:24:58 <oerjan> you need a rule for where to use a two-digit count, i think
23:26:00 <oerjan> elliott: SPIM
23:26:10 <elliott> oerjan: ???
23:26:13 <elliott> also, two-digit count? ew
23:26:21 <oerjan> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Zwave
23:27:08 <elliott> oh.
23:27:16 <elliott> i'm retired from spamfighting. that's ais523's job now.
23:27:27 <elliott> also, it reminds me i should be upgrading MW to make the filter he set up maybe work.
23:27:40 <oerjan> but he's not there!
23:27:49 <elliott> ok, how about I make you a sysop and you delete it
23:28:11 <oerjan> also i don't think that message matches his filter
23:28:31 <elliott> no changing the topic!
23:29:52 <oerjan> as i was walking back home today, i was pondering how in norway, it's sometimes safer to walk in the middle of the road than on the sidewalk. unless you are wearing glacier scaling equipment.
23:30:02 <elliott> ok i'll take that as a no then.
23:30:14 <elliott> let's see how long you can bear to see the spam stand :P
23:30:28 -!- fungot has joined.
23:30:36 <oerjan> this elliott guy uses some mean tactics
23:30:38 <fizzie> fungot: Fight spam.
23:30:39 <fungot> fizzie: nvi is a fnord that isn't properly fnord, right? assume non-tail recursion is free?
23:30:53 <FreeFull> oerjan: obviously everyone should learn how to levitate
23:31:01 <oerjan> fungot: i wouldn't assume that if i were you
23:31:02 <fungot> oerjan: i have an acoustic and an fnord lenght of universal fnord formal language by piling on restrictions to, and starts out thus: ( ch succ zero)
23:31:20 <elliott> oerjan: and here I thought you _wanted_ world domination.
23:32:09 <Sgeo> How much does tail recursion cost?
23:32:17 <Sgeo> Who do I pay the tail recursion tax to?
23:32:28 <oerjan> well when i become world dictator, spammers won't exist any more, so spam fighting will be an irrelevant skill for me to learn.
23:32:47 <Arc_Koen> Sgeo: if you really don't know, hand it over to me and I'll take care of it
23:37:28 <oerjan> i have a feeling if you hand it to Arc_Koen, it will end up somewhere in nigeria
23:37:52 <Arc_Koen> you're so wrong about me
23:38:29 <shachaf> oerjan: how's the world dictator thing going
23:38:31 <shachaf> where do i vote
23:38:42 <oerjan> slowly.
23:39:10 <Phantom_Hoover> oerjan, i will vote for you if your first action is the fucking up of sweden's shit
23:39:46 <Sgeo> `quote
23:39:49 <oerjan> i have nothing against swedes in general, but they are going to get a _serious_ reeducation
23:39:52 <HackEgo> 329) <elliott_> `addquote <olsner> two quotes about quotes about django <olsner> I guess the worst part is that I appear in all three hackego quotes about django <olsner> elliott_: another quote? you're not helping :/
23:40:02 <Sgeo> `quote diplomacy
23:40:07 <HackEgo> 479) <Taneb> Maybe if you try diplomacy. <Taneb> Pointy steel diplomacy \ 883) [on Diplomacy] <Bike> man, that doesn't even mention greece at all [...] <Bike> oh, this is about a game, not world war i.
23:40:12 <FreeFull> `quote rewrite
23:40:16 <HackEgo> 710) <olsner> what a world it would be if you could actually *steal* code so that the other project has to rewrite it or infiltrate your project to steal it back
23:40:29 <FreeFull> :D
23:41:12 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:41:39 <Sgeo> Going to go out to buy a chicken sandwich
23:41:43 -!- carado has joined.
23:41:44 <Sgeo> With lettuce and onions
23:41:45 <Sgeo> :)
23:41:48 <Sgeo> For dinner
23:41:56 <Sgeo> I'm more used to that being a lunch
23:41:56 <shachaf> Sgeo: i'm not sure i understand
23:42:00 <shachaf> what kind of sandwich
23:42:16 <Sgeo> Then again, I often don't have lunch, so
23:42:30 <zzo38> O no, my Dungeons&Dragons character only has 1 diplomacy (+2 to aberration type creatures).
23:43:16 <zzo38> Does that mean I can't vote?
23:43:37 <oerjan> zzo38: huh i had sort of got the impression he was the kind who could talk his way out of things
23:43:51 <kmc> `quote django
23:43:55 <HackEgo> 270) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 317) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 318) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named a
23:44:14 <kmc> head explode
23:44:20 <zzo38> oerjan: Well, some things, perhaps.
23:44:24 <Phantom_Hoover> man, the old days
23:44:32 <Phantom_Hoover> when 270 was 352
23:44:41 <Phantom_Hoover> and cpressey still walked among men
23:44:45 <FireFly> `pastaquote django
23:44:46 <HackEgo> No output.
23:44:51 <FireFly> `pastequote django
23:44:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastequote: not found
23:44:55 <elliott> kmc: you may find `pastequotes django more helpful
23:45:08 <FireFly> oh, plural?
23:45:15 * FireFly wonders why there is a `pastaquote` though
23:45:23 <FireFly> `pastequotes django
23:45:32 <zzo38> (Note also that charisma also affects diplomacy too; not only skills and feats)
23:45:35 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.24330
23:46:04 <oerjan> FireFly: because people around here are attracted to puns like flies to vinegar
23:46:23 <Sgeo> `paste cat bin/pastaquotes
23:46:26 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/cat%20bin/pastaquotes
23:46:27 <zzo38> So can the psychic power "realize potential"
23:46:51 <Sgeo> `paste bin/pastaquote
23:46:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/bin/pastaquote
23:47:13 <FireFly> um ok
23:47:29 <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
23:47:29 <Sgeo> >.>
23:47:31 <Bike> `pastaquote
23:47:34 <HackEgo> No output.
23:47:38 <Bike> D:
23:47:50 -!- Sgeo has changed nick to pasta.
23:47:55 -!- pasta has changed nick to Sgeo.
23:48:01 <Sgeo> pasta is registered
23:48:05 <oerjan> `addquote <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
23:48:17 <HackEgo> 989) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
23:48:21 <Bike> `pastaquote
23:48:21 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastlog Sgeo.*pasta
23:48:27 <HackEgo> 989) <Sgeo> I think pastaquote should just quote me
23:48:32 <Bike> good, good
23:48:55 <HackEgo> No output.
23:49:02 <oerjan> Bike: Sgeo has to get his wishes _some_ times
23:50:54 <Phantom_Hoover> `echo "exec pastlog pasta" > bin/pastalog
23:50:55 <HackEgo> ​"exec pastlog pasta" > bin/pastalog
23:51:02 <Phantom_Hoover> `run echo "exec pastlog pasta" > bin/pastalog
23:51:04 <Phantom_Hoover> im dum
23:51:06 <HackEgo> No output.
23:51:08 <Phantom_Hoover> `pastalog
23:51:11 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: /hackenv/bin/pastalog: Permission denied \ /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: /hackenv/bin/pastalog: cannot execute: Permission denied
23:51:59 <Sgeo> Nice Job Breaking It Hero
23:52:01 <Sgeo> >.>
23:52:47 <Phantom_Hoover> your use of tv tropes to parse daily life deeply disturbs me
23:53:30 <tswett> I do that from time to time.
23:53:43 -!- juniorfabian has joined.
23:53:44 <Phantom_Hoover> you deeply disturb me
23:53:49 <tswett> I use Camelcase when and only when I'm referring to a TV Tropes article.
23:54:44 -!- juniorfabian has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
23:57:20 <oerjan> haskellTropes
23:58:15 <Phantom_Hoover> that's bactrianCase
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