< 1364428850 906133 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :qoppa has no reserved words and no special forms < 1364428907 669484 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i recall my impression of that was that it prevented you from redefining define-syntax as another macro, but not as an ordinary function... < 1364428966 265571 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Right. In any case, it's a kind of a restriction. < 1364428976 423052 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only one thing in the default environment that's special, the rest of the default env is just basic data types and IO and stuff < 1364428998 563737 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 1-3 things depending on how you count < 1364429093 887086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guesstimate that PostScript also has no reserved words, though haven't checked. < 1364429242 894160 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1364430354 269114 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1364430674 61089 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi elliott < 1364430683 208442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you enjoy "ur sleep" < 1364430686 663112 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1364430701 355008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you wake up feeling horrible and also guilty < 1364430705 115404 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable JOIN :#esoteric < 1364430718 764595 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i < 1364432637 412134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, this theatre has a "Casting Coördinator" < 1364432812 143165 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does my workplace have a theater? < 1364433148 186744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you're in a better position than us to answer that question < 1364433183 55324 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1364433203 694913 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!c printf("%d", 2 * -2); < 1364433206 660397 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's dry cleaning there, I don't know why < 1364433209 25591 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :​-4 < 1364433211 284044 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of nice, that floor < 1364433220 780746 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then where I work feels so... stuffy in comparison < 1364433223 704715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same building < 1364433226 205715 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of weird < 1364433261 744126 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also knowing that everyone I see and meet works for the same company (kind of) < 1364433277 772001 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364433353 7267 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Archer the spy HQ has a secret entrance in a dry cleaner's < 1364433357 902410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, are you sure this isn't one of those companies you're expected to never leave < 1364433388 318290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i did work experience in one of those places < 1364433407 569512 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I don't know what their views are on that sort of thing < 1364433431 394976 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most companies allow you to go home in the evenings. < 1364433466 280501 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a good rule of thumb would be that if the work day is over, you're allowed to leave. < 1364433477 859335 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, but some of them give you all these nice facilities, I mean you can go home to your crummy apartment, if you feel like it. < 1364433496 307137 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see what you meant < 1364433496 830066 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that's the gist of it I've seen,. < 1364433506 45486 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant never leave as in, stay at the same job forever < 1364433508 78605 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some workplaces, although I think not many, have dormitories. < 1364433516 18688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotel california etc. < 1364433517 16403 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love a workplace with a dormitory < 1364433530 266796 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love a college with a dormitory. :| < 1364433583 403116 :surma!uid6361@c-base/crew/surma QUIT : < 1364433606 991838 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love to have dormed in college :| < 1364433614 915689 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The college had a dorm, I just never dormed < 1364433615 777643 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1364433625 748324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nessun' dorma < 1364433632 868157 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are dorms like halls < 1364433636 608858 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they weirder < 1364434043 565441 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, I'd love to be in one of the dorms at this college. < 1364434086 582582 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: I guess dormitories are bedrooms that do not have their own separate bathrooms and kitchens. < 1364434103 694130 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so they are like halls < 1364434110 51601 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except halls are sometimes en-suite < 1364434162 910208 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to make lazy evaluation? < 1364434174 952634 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the distinction between a dormitory and an apartment must be that renting an apartment involves renting the bathroom and kitchen in it as well. < 1364434217 574413 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: in what language? < 1364434244 805699 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think in the US, "dorm" is a pretty general term for school-affilitaed housing < 1364434262 860796 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett, I think one of the dorms at my college had bedrooms that had separate bathrooms, and the other buildings didn't < 1364434268 390124 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's true. I briefly lived in a "dorm" that was actually an apartment. < 1364434271 246506 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shared bathrooms and kitchens are common but not universal < 1364434281 745785 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it was actually an "apartment-style dormitory" or something. < 1364434321 266670 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1364434402 459719 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had houses, house-affiliated 'off-campus' housing, and unaffiliated 'off-campus' housing < 1364434418 646737 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'off-campus' doesn't necessarily mean anything geographically, one of them was right in the middle of campus < 1364434439 377379 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: well, "how to make lazy evaluation" is too vague a phrase to permit a meaningful answer. < 1364434444 762124 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :does "houses" mean houses or does it mean something else < 1364434446 79110 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you want to make lazy evaluation? < 1364434451 329300 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rooms ranged from private bedroom with private bathroom, to three people in a bedroom with shared bathroom < 1364434468 432685 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: else < 1364434475 922512 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm reading the wiki, it says Lazy is unimplemented < 1364434484 588659 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it'd be hard to implement it < 1364434506 647176 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how many gentlemen on the billiard-table < 1364434513 860509 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i... do not kno < 1364434538 890722 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: well, the specification is unfinished. < 1364434549 54206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, it's pretty much the same here, there are a bunch of residencies on campus which you stay in for first year, then after that you have to find your own accomodation, usually in university-owned housing in the surrounding towns. < 1364434549 380029 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's kind of impossible to implement. < 1364434586 865317 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1364434591 33745 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is common in the US as well < 1364434606 960965 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its possible to just make what is specified < 1364434610 975279 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't quite get this special-casing of first year < 1364434619 194087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Caltech is unusual in that non-freshmen actually want to live in the dorms, and there isn't enough space < 1364434624 541591 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I guess so. < 1364434624 736533 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2nd year is the most common year off campus < 1364434644 344853 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well a) it's hard to line up an apartment if you've just moved to the city, b) it helps you meet people < 1364434662 118531 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1e/Euro-comic-sans.png < 1364434665 578952 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i guess < 1364434670 155552 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b) was a really big deal for us because of the byzantine procedure for sorting frosh into houses < 1364434678 505333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahachaf < 1364434687 505586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Earlier versions of Comic Sans had an eye in the Euro sign. This was later removed because "The EU was going to sue us over that."[5] < 1364434703 272434 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it mainly just seems like a whole lot of infrastructure to only be used for a single year, but of course that's from the perspective of one person < 1364434716 249290 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1364434724 56848 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't burn down the buildings after 1 year elliott < 1364434726 233965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they reuse them < 1364434740 608559 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, when you're getting a house you generally get together with a group of 4 or 5 other people you know you can avoid strangling for the next year. < 1364434747 256584 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1364434755 863755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: wow are these things run by hippies or what < 1364434759 508374 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh that explains everything < 1364434763 327661 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hippies shachaf < 1364434779 152948 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which obviously you can't do in first year (I also completely failed to sort it out). < 1364434781 106234 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i think it would be quite cool if a university burned down its first-year accommodation every year < 1364434786 343529 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like some kind of weird fucking tradition < 1364434797 149986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: With the students inside, I hope? < 1364434798 536269 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: well, try evaluating Lazy on paper and see if you can figure out all the patterns, or something. < 1364434799 470164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first years symbolically get to start the fire < 1364434811 687853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe with the last-years inside. < 1364434817 230775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is tradition to leave at least one personal belonging in the building at the time < 1364434819 777479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: we kind of did that < 1364434828 765453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bonus is that if they're inside the building, any student can be a last-year! < 1364434842 4029 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were going to start extensive renovations after my freshman year < 1364434847 158097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we kind of trashed the place on the way out < 1364434863 960481 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the last day, four houses independently decided to have huge bonfires < 1364434894 831264 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also we spent about a month constructing reinforced concrete & steel plate fortifications in one of the rooms < 1364434908 858406 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to have another team of students break in using power tools and see how long it took them < 1364434913 570226 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually that was a yearly tradition < 1364434926 21173 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds much more funs than my halls < 1364434958 679358 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.gdbg.org/traditional_events.shtml#hellride < 1364434978 38747 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my corridor is a quarter chinese exchange students who keep to themselves, and the rest of us basically gave up on any meaningful social interactions in the first weekend < 1364435041 23881 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~blacker/history/ancient/hr-96.html < 1364435110 74749 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient indeed < 1364435120 26643 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: :/ < 1364435216 977717 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is old < 1364435277 646503 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc is that true < 1364435295 114852 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1364435650 334395 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking vim, be sure not to hit any number keys immediately before entering insert mode < 1364435682 525981 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that actually overwrite anything or just take forever to undo < 1364435705 340329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither < 1364435714 902856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _will_ make lots of copies, however < 1364435719 307145 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you type 6i and then insert some stuff, it will insert it 6 times < 1364435737 444431 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't see the copies until you complete the i command with Esc < 1364435766 858028 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only undo it as a unit < 1364435939 384218 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you can do u".p < 1364436162 29511 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1364436177 789946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :undo, then put from the last insertion register < 1364436184 201000 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1364436190 645180 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know fancy vim things such as these < 1364436194 622038 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an insertion register < 1364436196 639452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just looked it up < 1364436214 720741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a "last insertion" register < 1364436226 274121 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1364436277 112574 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recalled there were registers for (several last) deleted items, so i figured there might be one for inserted as well < 1364436283 65900 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364436303 15499 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1364436327 165486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed/vim is an esolang, discuss < 1364436336 222227 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no contest, your honor < 1364436592 125387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another method which frequently works is to yank text across undo/redo history < 1364436633 538002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since undo and redo only logs actual text changes, or thereabouts < 1364436680 900893 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes use this when i regret having deleted something a while ago < 1364436681 931446 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I suppose i might make good use of p even if i is mostly a nuisance < 1364436714 128437 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sometimes use o or O to open many blank lines at once < 1364436773 252851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly in combination with the ^V rectangle editing stuff < 1364436799 344435 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually ^Q on windows) < 1364436879 25447 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1364437106 187188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: xp < 1364437231 176333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :delete and paste? < 1364437266 822489 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but look at what it actually does < 1364437283 3342 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 232.0/8 < 1364437284 642944 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 29.0 < 1364437300 752930 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 893.0/8 < 1364437302 416296 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 111.625 < 1364437371 732868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's "insert command" not "insert mode" hth < 1364437389 8647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1364437393 924749 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is probably a vim command too < 1364437419 623644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc is change line < 1364437444 754087 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the . makes sense between them, i don't know < 1364437483 876086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the . cancels the c < 1364437502 20821 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim has some weird things < 1364437510 130548 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like ci and ca < 1364437513 194095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. alone is repeat last command < 1364437528 227100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i don't know those yet < 1364437573 668282 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you implement < 1364437575 393522 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sort a file" < 1364437576 743694 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :In vim? < 1364437581 119344 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a RPG where you learn vim... wait, yeah there is < 1364437581 598896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::%sort < 1364437586 235907 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is that, heaven forbid, a primitive) < 1364437592 493335 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without invoking sort primitives? < 1364437603 417667 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does %sort shell out to /usr/bin/sort < 1364437611 326894 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr it's very easy to pipe the current selection through external command < 1364437616 583485 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. not in windows at least. < 1364437617 621597 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::%!sort does < 1364437623 621671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::%sort is built-in < 1364437625 96730 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides to troll #spring a bit < 1364437626 355974 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1364437629 305575 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::%!shuf < 1364437673 749499 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::%!sort -R # as a last resort < 1364437722 37729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: you can probably write a vim script for it < 1364437909 242212 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right ci/ca are c + text object selections < 1364437914 971286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used those afair < 1364437958 225495 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think a language based on Java modified to work better with Spring and the bean concept would be nice. < 1364437975 712871 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As it is, JavaBeans (not so much Spring beans) break encapsulation horribly IMO < 1364438115 601007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, those text object selections could be more precise than % in many cases < 1364438145 613723 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and support many more delimiters < 1364438197 190042 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how do you delete a ( and its matching ) plz < 1364438212 279275 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that < 1364438425 532686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i still haven't found a command for that. i needed it a lot when writing my fueue programs, and i ended up just going to the ), appending a space, going to the matching (, delete, going to end of Word, delete, which depended on not having any space inside. < 1364438456 749113 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said there was a script for it, though. < 1364438465 413719 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can insert some other character instead. < 1364438499 35133 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but searching to end of Word is just a single character (E) < 1364438525 776637 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while another character requires /b < 1364438530 610880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts < 1364438539 422172 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1364438556 246538 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i was just about to wonder if there is a shortcut < 1364438587 530349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, t is even better < 1364438604 809070 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :f puts on you on the character, which is what you need for pressing x. < 1364438663 499669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was assuming ) but i guess ) also works < 1364438705 268545 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1364438722 172945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I forgot about the deleting ) part. < 1364438752 666540 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a @NotNull annotation in Java 8 < 1364438780 355275 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there isn't one except in 3rd party libraries < 1364438918 210862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: oh i found something: the ]) command < 1364438969 183952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to work precisely for this < 1364438985 9781 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to first (, x])x < 1364439000 904308 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan++ < 1364439029 519852 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what about deleting [ and matching ] ............. < 1364439065 839649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question, why are only () and {} supported < 1364439257 682146 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Anyway, good night < 1364439489 255937 :spacew!weed@ya.lolk.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1364439667 369506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: good night < 1364440087 67862 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: have you considered changing your name to kmc < 1364440147 485642 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1364440173 216798 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it may be a wise career move < 1364440721 888692 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1364442331 385203 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JavaBeans destroy the good of Java, imo < 1364442364 230232 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not all of them. Ones that just serve as plain old data are fine by me) < 1364442584 628743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mean this as a snark but in your view, what is the good of Java? < 1364442592 385260 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also are you JavaBeaning at work? < 1364442936 565205 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the ability to have private implementation that can't be set willy nilly is not a bad thing < 1364442950 114742 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I like checked exceptions, or at least the concept, but that's not relevant < 1364442960 200379 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spring MVC. Not as bad as JavaBeans I guess < 1364442973 167152 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checked exceptions is only bad as part of an API... < 1364442979 628200 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... < 1364443116 953711 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have a JavaBean that, in a DI style way, takes in an object that it relies on to do some service < 1364443131 503886 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION supposes < 1364443137 212752 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That object would probably be passed in via a public method, setWhatever() < 1364443144 863776 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now clients of that JavaBean can also use setWhatever() < 1364443320 187395 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1364443333 810380 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1364443362 656265 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would say solve this with Moar Abstraction < 1364443379 599636 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a FooBean is constructed from a FooBeanConfiguration object which you can setWhatever on < 1364443386 403732 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the FooBean itself will only use that at construction time < 1364443397 457706 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe this is a common pattern in java although i forgot its Official Pattern Name < 1364443423 650900 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factory pattern? < 1364443506 691272 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is that something else < 1364443562 340637 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :related < 1364443591 420927 :lahwran!lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1364443619 267341 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: What's the Ada solution to this problem? < 1364443675 988761 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't design major specs that ignore features and design of the language and replace those with complexity? < 1364443719 487107 :lahwran-!lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran JOIN :#esoteric < 1364443866 142438 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1364443873 805393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, if I say "AES-NI instructions" then nerds are going to make fun of me for 'redundant acronym' < 1364443897 41021 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks in, sees SSE < 1364443897 501578 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when I read "AES-NI" i totally spell it out in my head as "Advanced Encryption Standard -- New Instructions" < 1364443905 233903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Fiora < 1364443912 640825 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to put some AES-NI example programs on GitHub soon < 1364443914 421635 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :very simple < 1364443924 798320 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES AES-NI New Instructions < 1364443936 510992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: AES-NInstructions < 1364443940 829550 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll lampshade it with a footnote < 1364443941 23876 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNGraphics < 1364443949 782821 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ I HAVE THE SOLUTION TO YOUR PROBLEMS < 1364444033 549856 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAID Array < 1364444080 521410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RArrayID < 1364444100 337857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "ATM machine" an americanism < 1364444125 702464 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think ATM is an americanism < 1364444143 378187 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1364444145 499340 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elsewhere they're cashpoints or bankomats or geldautomats or something < 1364444172 798882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kaspomat" in Hebrew. < 1364444175 10218 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think of em as atms because internet < 1364444194 131878 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-mat" is the best < 1364444206 133316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, apparently in Hebrew each bank calls them something else or something? < 1364444208 132273 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's from "automate"? who even cares it's awesome < 1364444208 487564 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :käteisautomaatista? < 1364444230 106336 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automat < 1364444236 851037 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are the best < 1364444245 419670 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: It's "omat", not "mat", isn't it? < 1364444254 18134 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like "ometer". < 1364444270 613434 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I guess there's system libraries and stuff that already do the AES-NI stuff, or...? < 1364444273 587251 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm guess that's a similar situation to "-ology", which is actually from "logos". < 1364444292 917779 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: yeah Linux and OpenSSL already have implementations at minimum < 1364444300 640040 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In its heyday, recipes were kept in a safe, and described how to place the food on the plate as well as how to make it." < 1364444302 373665 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :System and Method to Do the AES-NI Stuff < 1364444307 810638 :DH____!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1364444314 828769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to learn how it works so I wrote simple self-contained programs and commented them better than any of the examples I could find < 1364444323 225927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel has a zip file with a boatload of examples but they're all big and ugly < 1364444363 392551 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you find any timing issues in the CPU? < 1364444395 561352 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but did you see http://inertiawar.com/microcode/ < 1364444399 967023 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :incredibly badass < 1364444411 769272 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, cool :o < 1364444435 881466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently Intel CPUs have a hidden implementation of RSA for verifying signatures on microcode updates?? < 1364444441 739682 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"erratums", what < 1364444453 71692 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i know right, gb2latinschool < 1364444462 422435 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x20110831 < 1364444471 759604 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erratupodes < 1364444489 883818 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I remember a week or couple ago I was futzing with those other weird instructions from roughly the same time period < 1364444492 738216 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string instructions < 1364444497 968834 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 days have september, april, june, and november, and one time february in sweden < 1364444498 607588 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Intel-supplied undocumented binary blob" sweet < 1364444500 731223 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :strinstructionsg < 1364444534 567873 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcmp(e/i)str(i/m) (gosh I always have to look those names up) < 1364444554 943172 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can do some really crazy things, internally it's basically a 256-way comparison of bytes < 1364444591 615755 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not scrap Java as a language and just make a language that compiles to Java with Java idioms < 1364444593 412561 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, 0x20110831, wow. < 1364444600 616010 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have Java idioms be language-level features < 1364444608 158747 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: The True Java < 1364444630 673575 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you could return a bitmask with 1s for bytes that are letters and 0s for bytes that aren't, or for the start of all instances of a word in a string or something < 1364444633 604938 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're kind of nutty < 1364444643 516254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: man 2 reboot (on Linux), look at the MAGIC constants < 1364444654 555173 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but um, maybe if you can poke me once you get the AES-NI thing up, I haven't used those at all so it sounds really cool < 1364444688 481139 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: sure thing < 1364444725 960614 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :goofy constants i'm used to, the coding of dates not so much < 1364444741 120682 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reboot(2) constants are also dates < 1364444741 600957 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly these are quite goofy indeed. < 1364444873 767064 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also geez the cipher mode things are complicated < 1364444896 126101 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate computers < 1364444919 703157 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :AES-NI has cipher mode things? < 1364444948 148116 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the different block cipher modes and implementing them I guess < 1364444968 153466 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, if the data's apparently random. < 1364444969 925770 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are sooooo overrated < 1364444978 919192 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't the hash, er, be of the decryption of the main data < 1364444984 271168 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad language with community that has made numerous workarounds for the language's flaws, or decent language that still has some flaws but little community? < 1364445003 364157 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: what are you talking about? < 1364445006 850581 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :18<19kmc> no but did you see http://inertiawar.com/microcode/ < 1364445013 73347 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: CTR mode is pretty simple, at least < 1364445026 937850 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBC is pretty simple too < 1364445050 385521 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :1ECB mode is pretty simple < 1364445050 873738 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think in a hundred years programming language arguments will be as quaint and obviously wrong as people arguing about sanskrit being magical or english being superior to french? that would be great < 1364445064 36374 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. counter mode does look really simple actually < 1364445067 891670 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there some reason people use any of the others? < 1364445090 722537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: The best part is that counter mode doesn't actually use a block cipher. < 1364445095 788492 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"he Phantasy Star Online: Blue Burst online video game uses Blowfish in ECB mode. Before the key exchange system was cracked leading to even easier methods, cheaters repeated encrypted "monster killed" message packets, each an encrypted Blowfish block, to illegitimately gain experience points quickly." < 1364445097 200538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses a hash function. < 1364445100 769620 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1364445217 701876 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ECB mode isn't a mode. < 1364445244 102142 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: some modes provide both encryption and authentication/integrity at once < 1364445255 430639 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, and counter mode doesn't? < 1364445257 423841 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use bare CTR mode then you let an attacker flip any bit they choose in the plaintext < 1364445270 988424 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhh < 1364445272 620442 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTR mode has advantages even if you don't care about integrity/authentication < 1364445275 97138 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you would use CTR mode with a message authentication code, often the HMAC construction < 1364445279 85729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, disadvantages. < 1364445305 804293 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a mode like GCM or OCB gives you both encryption and integrity/authentication in a single step < 1364445316 527392 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCB performs only slightly more block cipher operations than the unauthenticated moes < 1364445344 414928 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCM is nastier, it has some weird polynomial math and people are arguing on Twitter today about whether it's dumb < 1364445351 446929 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it performs them even if the authentication fails. < 1364445358 903435 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had better! < 1364445390 31042 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Polynomial math, does it do some finite field thing? < 1364445392 609783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : do you think in a hundred years programming language arguments will be as quaint and obviously wrong as people arguing about sanskrit being magical or english being superior to french? that would be great < 1364445397 66194 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: are you some kind of aim hecker < 1364445397 568177 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember carry-less multiplication for galois field arithmetic had something to do with GCM < 1364445398 616729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Why? < 1364445411 583129 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe it doesn't matter in this case < 1364445419 660739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general you want to do the same steps always to avoid timing side channels < 1364445426 476336 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1364445436 451566 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :laziness sucks! < 1364445437 393029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was used as an explicit argument for doing them separately, though. < 1364445441 196353 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to have a programming language where your branches have to have the same timing < 1364445445 800697 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to enforce this < 1364445453 764251 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cache attacks though too :< < 1364445459 360208 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: enforce it in the type system! < 1364445465 833197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a bunch of cool crypto exercises, email sean@matasano.com < 1364445469 894730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: no stop. you can't remind me of how security is awful < 1364445477 314140 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK NEW PLAN: we all stop using computers for important things < 1364445478 836182 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you recruiting for them now? < 1364445481 787969 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading a wonderful paper where (before AES-NI) they avoided timing attacks in an AES implementatoin < 1364445486 62400 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :by doing it entirely in registers < 1364445488 980953 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :do everything in the cost-counting indexed monad! < 1364445490 326289 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise we are so fucked < 1364445495 432950 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and turning the 2^8 galois operations into 4-bit sliced operations using shuffles as lookup tables < 1364445498 853605 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, let me find this < 1364445499 420608 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: was that the one where they stored the key in the debug registers? < 1364445506 112026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that might be a different paper < 1364445512 443514 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shiftleft.org/papers/vector_aes/vector_aes.pdf < 1364445516 133831 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one that did that thing I said < 1364445524 294876 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an implementation of AES that uses no table lookups < 1364445529 740792 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the hell is an "aim hecker" < 1364445530 721283 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: cool! < 1364445530 915398 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so should be immune to timing attacks of that kind? < 1364445543 11233 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda less useful now I guess, but <.< < 1364445547 746452 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: also you know things sucked before computers right, like the whole thing with missiles < 1364445551 387090 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote hecker < 1364445553 171985 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :736) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") < 1364445557 754372 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: please observe ^ < 1364445594 30473 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh what < 1364445599 669827 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the best part is it's still like 3-6 times faster than openssl < 1364445604 216806 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i don't think Bike gets it < 1364445610 259508 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was Context < 1364445616 687301 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm too lazy to find it < 1364445655 62191 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously there are differences between languages but it seems weird to restrict that to "languages" instead of "programming systems" or something < 1364445658 711693 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm slightly tired yes. < 1364445680 710769 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1364445682 5331 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the point is something about php < 1364445683 924000 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain that I haven't peed so bad over the toilet. < 1364445707 824156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you say that can be interpreted in some way as a defence of php makes you an aim hecker < 1364445710 881268 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1364445714 732128 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the part of the paper I am wayyyy beyond understanding (and probably the interesting part) is how they turn 256-way table lookups into 16-way ones < 1364445723 512082 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :your interpretation is dumb, so there. < 1364445724 139787 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the 16-way table lookup trick is one of my favorite things < 1364445729 910207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't understand < 1364445738 888157 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pshufb {16-byte table}, {data} does 16 16-way table lookups in one cycle, it's kind of amazing < 1364445739 332063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have to bring up aim heckers once every month or so < 1364445740 801014 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1364445756 61141 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prove... something to the guy who started it < 1364445759 482146 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm part of a new, dynamic, unheckered #esoteric. I am the new generation. I am unstoppable < 1364445770 318920 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about how we really care way too much about php sucking, etc. < 1364445806 611622 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP more like shitty crap doodoo that sucks < 1364445818 883060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: "the whole aim hecker thing is dumb hth" < 1364445822 753029 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1364445827 838688 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole aim hecker thing is beautiful < 1364445848 907735 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo you have bad taste in things that are things < 1364445856 449285 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the original "aim hecker" was some awful php script on this guy's site that was meant to do something or other ("hecking") with aol instant messenger accounts < 1364445864 834557 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so speaking of something more interesting than whatever that is, I got to teach kids to play with a Mindstorms robot today < 1364445866 936281 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it was actually meant to be "aim hacker" but here is the twist: it was not < 1364445872 65059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: best segue ever < 1364445873 84206 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hope you're splitting your sides < 1364445874 551875 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was exciting because i've never so much as seen one before < 1364445885 863658 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote so speaking of something more interesting than whatever that is, [...] < 1364445889 558307 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :994) so speaking of something more interesting than whatever that is, [...] < 1364445890 842754 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but goddamn, 10 year olds get enthusiastic about robots < 1364445897 190351 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mindstorms *_* < 1364445903 963600 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hey i remember when i played with mindstorms < 1364445908 283516 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was p.good imo < 1364445909 107638 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad got me a set of that when I was like 10 or something < 1364445928 377743 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just had to get it to go into a garage and back but man did they work at that shit. < 1364445929 190703 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg am i Fiora < 1364445934 343025 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain the fangs < 1364445944 930478 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what @_@ < 1364445969 383787 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364445974 116603 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :by kids bike actually means ... well i was planning to come up with a funny punchline by the time i typed that out, but i failed to < 1364445982 337418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today they have those new-fangled Mindstorms things with Bluetooth and what not, right? < 1364445983 190592 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like every time a kid from one of the other activities came up and saw the robot going they literally just went "whooooooa" < 1364445997 227849 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it was USB. I don't know how fangled it was otherwise though. < 1364445998 565411 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what they have nowadays, I just remember programming by dragging little puzzle piece blocks around < 1364446002 30761 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and building stuff < 1364446004 761496 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that was it. < 1364446012 300952 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked that the graphical interface resembled physical legos. < 1364446014 304152 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: The old ones had to use infrared, didn't they? < 1364446026 304851 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really loved Technic-style lego though (like, making things that connected together and moved) instead of just structures though < 1364446039 95819 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK when I said I'd never seen mindstorms before, I mean I didn't know anything about it besides that they're Lego robots. < 1364446060 922666 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the only young adult I just got shoved into the tech thing because "you kids know all that stuff right" < 1364446073 774641 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one of two, the other also got shoved into the tech thing, I mean. < 1364446078 144729 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you teach them lisp < 1364446094 567554 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. You've unraveled my insidious plot < 1364446101 857105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you < 1364446157 23992 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.landmarksofbritain.co.uk/ivrpa/mindstorms-layout-selected.jpg?q=ivrpa/mindstorms-layout-selected.jpg all those parentheses are terrifying < 1364446184 941154 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :landmarksofbritain.co.uk < 1364446208 211489 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude nxt is like a billion times fancier than rcx? < 1364446215 559370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo kids these days < 1364446232 878501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kids these days have a raspberry pie glued to an arduino duct taped to an iphone < 1364446239 805913 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pi and/or pie < 1364446276 780448 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one time I used duct tape to tape a duct < 1364446277 594054 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should invent something called "duct typing" and then get mad at people when they say "duck typing". < 1364446277 926919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a day < 1364446286 915885 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ductible typing < 1364446294 366011 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :deductible typing < 1364446316 340162 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, also the kids did this while wearing labcoats labeled as being from clean rooms. It was pretty much adorable. < 1364446938 602785 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364446968 49922 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364447086 818182 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1364447204 281463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat it's 5 am already < 1364447212 573491 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did absolutely nothing to deserve this < 1364447282 11332 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get to wake up in 4 hours! < 1364447333 642318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why arent you asleep < 1364447365 898460 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364447372 88683 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fu chrome, how many documents contain the characters — in that order < 1364447393 712498 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :famed swedish post-metal band — completed their record-setting tour today < 1364447398 670167 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1364447402 538249 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1364447433 660547 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mojibake is mai waifu < 1364447456 451946 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once went to a 3d chat site, it was based in Israel and there were a lot of Hebrew speakers there, but I didn't have fonts so their text showed up as a lot of vowels < 1364447457 948714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that is so i'm going to assume it's a flavor of pocky < 1364447466 397409 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And got said by the narrator thing as a vowely sound < 1364447476 996138 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ironic < 1364447485 580450 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mojibake is what you call consequences of encoding errors like "—" (if you're feeling japanese) < 1364447490 817473 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1364447503 398750 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh did you mean the waifu thing? yeah that's pocky < 1364447529 857026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Russian it's called krakozyabry (кракозя́бры) < 1364447537 314760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Koverto-kun-krakozjabroj.png still the best thing < 1364447553 29660 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also serves as the title of my blog < 1364447558 606944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, link? < 1364447562 764351 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok yeah that's great < 1364447585 842791 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly personal stuff, i'll link it later if i feel like it and write soething moderately interesting maybe < 1364447589 834691 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1364447596 624277 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just google that word >_> < 1364447617 809549 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i'm imagining a russian mailperson being like "yeah this looks like polish i guess" < 1364447643 512318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote i don't know what that is so i'm going to assume it's a flavor of pocky < 1364447647 323151 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :995) i don't know what that is so i'm going to assume it's a flavor of pocky < 1364447680 265052 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys we need 5 moreq uotes < 1364447694 822065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps zzo38 will say 5 things tomorrow < 1364447712 770199 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope there's a wraparound error when it hits 1000 < 1364447715 663075 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 0 < 1364447717 179294 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :10) So what you're saying is that I shouldn't lick my iPhone but instead I should rub it on my eyes first and then lick my eyeballs? \ 20) so i can only conclude that it is flawed, or the world is utterly bonkers \ 30) anyway, torture would be fun to experience, true should put that on my todo < 1364447729 92914 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that wasn't what i expeted < 1364447764 547921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure what that is doing < 1364447787 9445 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1 < 1364447788 647213 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. < 1364447789 42112 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching for the string "0"? < 1364447807 569790 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> all (0 `isInfixOf`) ["10","20","30"] < 1364447809 254156 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Num.Num [GHC.Types.Char]) < 1364447809 448442 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the literal ... < 1364447815 217483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> all ("0" `isInfixOf`) ["10","20","30"] < 1364447816 354455 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1364447818 550881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :php > haskell < 1364447823 748370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com TOPIC #esoteric :There is no rule in poker that says you have to try hard to win. | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ < 1364447826 336460 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't search in quoten umbers though < 1364447856 263594 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: zzo38 has actually written the plots of most hollywood films of the last few years < 1364447861 251027 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. yugioh < 1364448023 253598 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A lot of vowels? < 1364448031 476717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like having anti-fonts. < 1364448057 595519 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Is that a zzo38 quote? < 1364448064 436156 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote poker < 1364448066 94726 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :801) There is no rule in poker that says you have to try hard to win. < 1364448091 700877 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1364448097 329180 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes zzo38 < 1364448102 896998 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.16671 < 1364448163 90216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ruler_of_the_Universe < 1364448174 667282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 for emperor of united states and protector of mexico < 1364448235 182924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Do you understand the F-Alg free monad thing? < 1364448249 892552 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to say no. < 1364448263 904164 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really either. :-( < 1364448267 530145 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually if that's catamorphismy it might be yes, but I'm still going to say no < 1364448293 5479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please explain it and its relation to the free monad as given by the left adjoint to the forgetful functor to the category of endofunctors? < 1364448296 475685 :lahwran-!lahwran@python/site-packages/lahwran NICK :lahwran < 1364448312 341120 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, no. < 1364448319 311836 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo stick with sigma algebras < 1364448336 696659 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike this is important....... < 1364448363 570501 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :free peltier < 1364448376 453422 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn peltier < 1364448376 921697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "peltier". < 1364448382 434581 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what a free monad is, is that like a free monoid < 1364448391 446944 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1364448397 209847 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Peltier < 1364448397 820207 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a free monoid in the category of endofunctors < 1364448411 430140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Please make that an https link so I can click on it. < 1364448420 998362 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Peltier < 1364448467 631266 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike++ # uses https links unbidden < 1364448598 994907 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so is a free monad like a monoid of strings of endofunctors which are compositions or something maybe < 1364448619 63559 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's data Free f = Pure a | Free (f (Free f a)), hope this helps < 1364448627 931214 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1364448686 205827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: lists are 1 + a*(1 + a*(1 + a*(... < 1364448703 280025 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1364448703 474118 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :free monads are a + f (a + f (a + f (... < 1364448713 737032 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. That's kinda neat. < 1364448742 802641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make them look even more similar. < 1364448754 33288 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sort of like 1 + f + f^2 + f^3 < 1364448778 580636 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah a lot of category theory stuff ends up looking like combinatorics to me for some reason. < 1364448801 704559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types are related to combinatorics in all sorts of ways. < 1364448806 494517 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know the derivative of a type is the type of its one-hole contexts?? < 1364448808 192500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And combinatorial species. < 1364448813 764832 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott no < 1364448822 310549 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the logarithm of a functor is the number of holes it has. < 1364448825 38929 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1364448829 528175 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where applicable.) < 1364448870 832174 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the logarithm of [] < 1364448930 236148 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't exist < 1364448930 789373 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364448938 635444 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1364448942 145835 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/17006/what-is-the-logarithm-or-root-operation-in-type-space < 1364449391 153994 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1364449600 329621 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364449830 195990 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1364449908 703160 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1364450257 927210 :atehwa!atehwa@aulis.sange.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1364451092 438287 :glogbackup!~glogbacku@64.31.59.246 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1364451993 80411 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1364452024 180521 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1364452711 229187 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364453133 740628 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1364453416 151821 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364454330 537178 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1364455778 910671 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1364456132 901822 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364456614 492673 :oonbotti!~oonbotti@91-145-118-87.bb.dnainternet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1364457032 841114 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1364457196 539989 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364458463 54397 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364459442 903257 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter JOIN :#esoteric < 1364459613 929399 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364460038 926702 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364460717 865992 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364460804 897731 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364461262 585578 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slist < 1364461266 316606 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1364461488 146325 :impomatic!~digital_w@146.90.131.109 QUIT :Quit: impomatic < 1364463058 27988 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1364463376 143500 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364463933 935138 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1364464850 933024 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1364465638 699539 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364466319 176667 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION provisionally retracts his objections to JavaBeans < 1364466379 761836 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone suggested having the interface that clients use not mention private things < 1364468055 520722 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1364468523 934556 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Person who agreed with me is now being clueless < 1364468525 87985 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1364469259 171235 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1364469488 385743 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469724 711291 :tromp_!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469769 910054 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469770 825363 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469781 933478 :shachaf_!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469782 127883 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469782 128036 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469782 322285 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364469782 322364 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364469782 711501 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364469782 906350 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469782 906489 :SDr!~ask@unaffiliated/sdr QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469783 101587 :tromp!~tromp@rtc35-148.rentec.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469783 101669 :[mbm]!~mbm@openwrt/developer/mbm QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469783 295921 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364469783 489918 :tswett!~quassel@unaffiliated/tswett QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364469783 490071 :Gregor!codu@codu.org QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469783 684674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364469795 763999 :[mbm]!~mbm@openwrt/developer/mbm JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469848 619015 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469863 902336 :comex!~comex@ec2-23-22-255-183.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469873 348009 :tswett_!~quassel@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469874 188659 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469885 531803 :hogeyui!~hogeyuiVP@vps.usamimi.biz JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469951 950907 :EgoBot!codu@codu.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1364469998 102940 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470111 232392 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1364470111 468576 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1364470111 468706 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott QUIT :*.net *.split < 1364470111 663303 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes QUIT :*.net *.split < 1364470111 663448 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com QUIT :*.net *.split < 1364470118 59364 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470127 971490 :elliott_!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott NICK :elliott < 1364470311 487441 :aloril!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470311 681760 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470311 681911 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470311 681990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470328 942065 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCCF15.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364470643 891370 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364471018 442428 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364471171 64087 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364471428 429911 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1364471431 961409 :carado!~carado@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:221:63ff:fe9a:3747 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1364471540 167438 :heroux!~heroux@5070823C.static.ziggozakelijk.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1364473014 593690 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364473344 580321 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1364473508 747365 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364473647 529747 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364473833 239455 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be possible to make a language that compiles to an exe? < 1364473851 976939 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1364473865 993925 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? would it need to use gcc? < 1364473911 279260 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need to compile it for windows < 1364473955 14829 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :only windows would work? < 1364473991 251103 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe DOS < 1364474003 135626 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :.exe is just the suffix Windows uses to mark executables < 1364474025 684846 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more, like .msi etc < 1364474059 552224 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :.wmf < 1364474082 248262 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, I meant an executable, not specifically .exe < 1364474110 933655 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what a lot of compilers do < 1364474123 245977 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including gcc, GHC, and others < 1364474181 341318 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is in fact, an obscure language that has a 200-byte compiler. < 1364474264 853470 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364474269 318556 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364474458 721921 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@p4FDCCF15.dip.t-dialin.net PART :#esoteric < 1364474526 108174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awib is (modulo some arguments about "cheating") written in one obscure language like that, and generates (x86 Linux) binaries directly. < 1364474721 647973 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows compilers are probably slightly more complicated than *nix compilers < 1364474738 125404 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the Windows API is written in C < 1364474748 74352 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :and can't be accessed directly from assembly < 1364474877 802793 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, .exe is used as the executable suffix at least by Symbian and OS/2 in addition to Windows and DOS. < 1364474896 382677 :Taneb!d917e6fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.23.230.253 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1364475096 688195 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Symbian also makes a difference between .app for applications with user interfaces, and .exe for service-type things.) < 1364475578 807794 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :symbian still exists? < 1364475601 928871 :shocked!~MHGF@41.234.24.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364475602 123648 :shocked!~MHGF@41.234.24.84 QUIT :Excess Flood < 1364475802 481579 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: That is not dead which can eternal lie. < 1364476010 78114 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck symbian < 1364476010 426983 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364476064 858717 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and with strange aeons symbian will have >50% market share on mobile devices. < 1364476412 471869 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1364476429 725087 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364476666 369506 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck sybian < 1364476666 605034 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364477260 393388 :Gregor`!codu@codu.org NICK :Gregor < 1364477266 37069 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.149.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364477623 9586 :impomatic!~digital_w@146.90.131.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364478220 754494 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck symbiote < 1364478221 43600 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbiosis is close and often long-term interaction between two or more different biological species. < 1364478397 462733 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck duck < 1364478398 122490 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duck definition: any of various swimming birds (family Anatidae, the duck family) in which the neck and legs are short, the feet typically webbed, the bill often broad and flat, and the sexes usually different from each other in plumage. < 1364478404 724914 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck duck goose < 1364478404 919550 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364478437 807400 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric : Can TAs who teach lab classes have a larger quota? < 1364478438 79396 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364478438 274354 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :We are not planning to subsidize work that TA's are doing. Our recommendation would be that a department provides a work printer for their TAs to use, or that they subsidize their quotas. < 1364478442 648264 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :My university = brilliant. < 1364478460 392307 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pluralizing initialisms in two different ways within the same answer to a question. < 1364478463 662034 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :∴ brilliant = your university < 1364478523 912668 :Arc_Koen!~Arc_Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yesterday someone told me I was your university < 1364478530 210125 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :TA:s. < 1364478740 254581 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AEs. < 1364479021 678883 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :TAnen < 1364479026 297433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.T. fields. < 1364479055 31656 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364480043 515097 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1364480075 270536 :sebbu2!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1364480075 467015 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1364480250 94258 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1364482065 716181 :azaq23!~derivecto@unaffiliated/azaq23 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1364482503 569659 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364482910 610454 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364485737 735431 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364485772 560749 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364485970 3312 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1364485990 560574 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1364486025 365640 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-42-103.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1364486025 560085 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1364486041 643693 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-195-9.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364486052 780480 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1364488435 435980 :Lymia!~moe@tccd250-2.tccd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1364488435 631652 :Lymia!~moe@tccd250-2.tccd.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1364488435 631891 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1364488458 603898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :today's mushroom fact: many mushrooms are carnivorous < 1364488492 570767 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mycelium will attract, trap, and digest nematodes for their delicious nitrogen < 1364488497 448628 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0n04wCkIpuQ < 1364488724 772719 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: .NET programs are .exe files, even when compiled by Mono on Linux < 1364488725 70105 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1364488728 670087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they have a PE-like format < 1364488735 350014 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-195-9.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh < 1364488738 592594 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can exec them directly thanks to binfmt_misc < 1364488780 735346 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/tmp/foo.exe: PE32 executable (console) Intel 80386 Mono/.Net assembly, for MS Windows < 1364488799 653028 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know a) why it's "for MS Windows" and b) whether it's really architecture-specific < 1364488860 630494 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder what ThatOtherPerson meant by saying the Windows API can only be accessed from C and not assembly < 1364488891 216211 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there a standard ABI? I can call libc from assembly code on Linux as long as I comply with the C ABI < 1364488925 28216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have APIs that are defined at source level and might be implemented with macros -- POSIX allows this for a lot of things -- but I didn't know that the Windows API is like this < 1364489407 898506 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364489785 902768 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1364489817 380287 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1364490113 72861 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck mushroom < 1364490113 378768 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mushroom definition: an enlarged complex aboveground fleshy fruiting body of a fungus (as a basidiomycete) that consists typically of a stem bearing a pileus; '''especially'''. < 1364490272 578687 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364490306 718539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think e meant that it's defined in terms of functions in DLLs, so you get a slight complication in that you need to do linking, as opposed to calling some sort of int X/syscall-based interface directly. < 1364490353 186337 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364490375 440887 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might have some amount of could-be-a-C-macro-logy going on, too, for all I know; but people certainly are calling into the API from assembly. < 1364490394 715003 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck absolute terror field < 1364490394 937560 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364490497 899939 :DHeadshot!~DH____@unaffiliated/dh----/x-6288474 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1364490635 20237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1364490693 40858 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'By extension, the term "mushroom" can also designate the entire fungus when in culture' < 1364490749 53614 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck black fungus < 1364490749 268782 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364490755 652253 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck jew's ear < 1364490755 847274 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- No relevant information < 1364490764 990854 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~duck wood ear < 1364490765 185804 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wood ear definition: any of several ear- or cup-shaped basidiomycetous fungi (genus '''Auricularia''') that grow on wood. < 1364490769 25956 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! < 1364490795 239085 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Zwerg_Postkarte_001.jpg < 1364491423 856 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what langs other than haskell have pattern matching? < 1364491467 761601 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang does. < 1364491476 833382 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scala has a bit. < 1364491489 466213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SML, OCaml < 1364491500 711944 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are pattern-matching libraries for many other languages < 1364491505 807891 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there's one built into Racket < 1364491510 895854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many non-standard Scheme bits. (Maybe there's a SRFI too?) < 1364491530 373811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme's syntax-rules is a bit like pattern matching, albeit in a specialized domain < 1364491545 279405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Also, the bit that says "for MS Windows" is there in the PE executable magic detection where it decides whether to say either "for MS Windows" or "for MS-DOS, 32rtm DOS extender # hooray, there's a DOS extender using the PE format, with a valid PE executable inside (which just prints a message and exits if run in win)" -- and doesn't have anything in particular to do with the Mono/.Net ... < 1364491551 411665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... assembly part. < 1364491557 192634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq has pattern matching < 1364491568 277405 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Agda < 1364491573 685393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're inspired by OCaml and Haskell respectively < 1364491583 322835 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually OCaml was invented for writing the Coq implementation... but anyway < 1364491586 563417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml and coq sort of inspired each other i think < 1364491599 694058 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq pattern matching is really kind of awful < 1364491599 888813 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1364491606 401202 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent types make everything a pain < 1364491607 460420 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/pattern matching // < 1364491615 805887 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1364491622 287941 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :coq is a pretty impressive system < 1364491626 895591 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1364491634 653138 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of its parts are pretty ugly though < 1364491645 348977 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really like the tactics system but it's amazing just how advanced and old (80s!) it is < 1364491651 668237 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some things like the notation system are really pretty cool < 1364491656 46122 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1364491704 558952 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1364491858 125253 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it easy to implement pattern matching? < 1364491897 382099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1364491899 614596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1364491917 24166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what kinds of data types and what kinds of patterns you want to support < 1364491933 148404 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ML/Haskell form of pattern matching goes along with the concept of algebraic data < 1364491959 870049 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where every value you can decompose has a constructior and zero or more fields < 1364491976 986234 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constructor isn't like an OO constructor; it's not a chunk of code that runs; it's just a tag applied to some fields < 1364492010 563159 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the basic form of pattern is "match if the constructor was X and apply sub patterns p, q, ... to the fields" < 1364492051 80364 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Haskell this is also the basic construct which drives lazy thunks to be evaluated, but you can ignore that in a language without lazy eval < 1364492160 261422 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about paramorphisms and induction schemes < 1364492349 389425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about higher order unification being undecidable < 1364492545 319570 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvotfsdjkeuhdmij QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364492588 656782 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-248-45.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1364492682 530371 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364492820 462097 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@tccd250-2.tccd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1364492820 761829 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@tccd250-2.tccd.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1364492820 957046 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1364492944 93803 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipquirlvxrlsokry JOIN :#esoteric < 1364493492 530210 :hagb4rd!~perdito@koln-4db420ee.pool.mediaWays.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364494115 128852 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1364494132 97159 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1364494293 619853 :Zerker_!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364494391 85368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1364494546 470861 :iamcal_!uid1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kkhhkmzlvpdatgdh QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1364494802 899568 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364494835 34989 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ipquirlvxrlsokry QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1364495930 247510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell shachaf Another method which works with [] : go to [ , then %x``x < 1364495930 856911 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1364496144 741470 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1364496332 899985 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony JOIN :#esoteric < 1364496417 806703 :ThatOtherPerson!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1364497637 564295 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1364497674 789014 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1364497690 229302 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, does either Python or Haskell has an operator (built-in or standard library) for Knuth's arrowup notation? < 1364497707 793199 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/has/have < 1364497835 54858 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364497916 927260 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: not to my knowledge < 1364497924 763647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably in non-standard library < 1364497947 308833 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, do you know of any such library? < 1364497998 924319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: the result wouldn't fit in memory for any but the simplest cases... < 1364498030 540121 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I just need the simplest cases :-) < 1364498039 514486 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnotherTest: no < 1364498124 173300 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: alright, time to ddg < 1364498147 269096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let up 0 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up < 1364498148 650941 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Eq a, Num a) => a -> Int -> Int -> Int < 1364498161 952973 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let up 0 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498163 606228 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: stack overflow < 1364498166 98880 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp < 1364498171 748815 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: was writing that, i think it should start at 1 though < 1364498176 569368 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yead < 1364498180 68327 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498181 598884 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7625597484987 < 1364498186 337960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, matches wikipedia < 1364498195 659172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :now let's golf < 1364498209 700611 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval up up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498212 107102 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): < 1364498214 101391 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval up up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498215 630486 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): :1:13: parse error on input `=' < 1364498223 349378 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let up 0 = (^); up n = (foldr1 (up (n-1))) . flip replicate in up < 1364498224 809847 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type `[b0 -> a0]' < 1364498225 4493 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type `a1 -> c0' < 1364498225 4670 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: a0 -> [b0 -> a0] < 1364498229 982842 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares angrily at metasepia < 1364498245 449071 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: you have duplicated an up < 1364498264 587556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you might want a let instead of the first one < 1364498460 644928 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval let up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498461 506214 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): Ambiguous occurrence `foldr1' < 1364498461 700439 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could refer to either `GHC.List.foldr1', < 1364498461 700631 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : imported from `Data.List' at Imports.hs:16:1-16 < 1364498461 700746 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : (and originally defined in `base:GHC.List') < 1364498461 700853 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : or `Data.Foldable.foldr1', < 1364498462 21923 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric : imported from `Data.Foldable' at Imports.hs:13:1-20 < 1364498464 414727 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1364498475 945325 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval let up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = Data.List.foldr1 (up (n-1)) (replicate b a) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498476 585032 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :7625597484987 < 1364498481 516911 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now _that_ is a reason to stare angry. < 1364498482 247927 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, much better. < 1364498490 869531 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good bot, good bot < 1364498498 496504 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pat pat pats his bot < 1364498523 652563 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :What what what language is that of the bot which you are pat pat patting? < 1364498525 819899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure there must be some way of checking for name collisions. < 1364498573 497353 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ThatOtherPersonY: it's written in haskell, but input from ~eval is forwarded to mueval, so it's only a coincidence. < 1364498619 617890 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1364498649 647004 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, thanks! < 1364498651 983651 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364498659 199393 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I had those collisions mostly flattened, but this one is rebarbative. < 1364498696 367570 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let up 1 a b = a^b; up n a b = iterate (up (n-1) a) a !! (b-1) in up 3 3 2 < 1364498697 808425 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7625597484987 < 1364498770 460307 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I /may/ have fixed Anarchy < 1364498770 969152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have 4 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. < 1364498776 145873 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fix is to make it intentionally sub-TC < 1364498777 666547 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages < 1364498778 367133 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 22h 34m 33s ago: imagine something as simple as "do >+, then wait for the current cell to become zero, then wait that many cycles again, then do something else" <-- +>([{}] < 1364498778 561536 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somethingelse(.)*-1)%-1 assuming %-1 is legal < 1364498778 561696 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 22h 34m 15s ago: *>+ < 1364498778 561804 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 1d 22h 33m 31s ago: Oops, discard, duh < 1364498778 561908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott said 1d 22h 31m 24s ago: *>+ < 1364498812 977331 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't work because the current cell could become nonzero again < 1364498814 221620 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if a language extension that allows to define (↑), (↑↑), (↑↑↑), etc. all at once would generalize in any interesting way < 1364498819 328038 :shachaf_!~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com QUIT :Changing host < 1364498819 522560 :shachaf_!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1364498821 627473 :shachaf_!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf NICK :shachaf < 1364498866 129661 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I once defined a lisp macro "cr" to generalize cadr etc. < 1364498866 780935 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. < 1364498872 928370 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cr addada x) < 1364498876 488918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pretty awful. < 1364498978 400025 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I SAID DISCARD < 1364499094 736510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i thought before in the context of lambdabot, if all names were filtered through a module reexporting them, then ghc would have to check for collisions on compilation. < 1364499095 67306 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :c.c < 1364499158 584107 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :) < 1364499167 304160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fwiw, I tried to write anticipation that way first too < 1364499172 309960 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it clearly wouldn't work < 1364499199 701505 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval foldl (+) 0 [1..6] < 1364499200 384297 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 < 1364499218 190930 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I import qualified Data.Foldable as F. < 1364499223 426740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what signal is 13? < 1364499236 645167 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, SIGPIPE < 1364499242 393532 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1364499312 440073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ok, although one problem with lambdabot is that it's hard to guess the module prefixes used < 1364499346 720879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i hope you have a logical system. < 1364499364 455022 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION whistles innocently, subtly tryin to avoid the problem. < 1364499380 938812 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right now, I have F, T, A, B and M as prefixes. < 1364499424 919616 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable, Data.Traversable, Control.Applicative, Data.Bits and Control.Monad? < 1364499436 39531 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1364499438 384161 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Map < 1364499447 565039 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :two hits. < 1364499448 209998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Control.Monad doesn't clash with anything < 1364499453 240999 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT < 1364499476 982440 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may have switched Data and Control somewhere < 1364499477 392886 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :T is Data.Text, A is Data.Attoparsec.Text, B is Data.ByteString.Lazy. < 1364499491 990357 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1364499538 459835 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1364499542 491892 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ook. < 1364499560 547570 :Zerker_!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1364499612 270476 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and B seem icky < 1364499647 99858 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1364499655 283871 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any problem there. < 1364499656 468735 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1364499719 579759 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :DAT and DBL would have been logical. < 1364499733 831329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the scheme were used throughout. < 1364499736 908740 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364499789 475436 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you _are_ choosing the most informational single letter. < 1364499799 565956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*informative < 1364499860 119706 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :B for bytestring is normal (I think), and applicative usually doesn't need a qualified import < 1364499871 974350 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :applicative has no qualifications. < 1364499955 992304 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should «import qualified Control.Applicative as ₳». < 1364500080 727882 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, we seem to have people editing over IPv6: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/2001:980:B030:1:92E6:BAFF:FE12:44BB < 1364500083 536510 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :always nice to see that < 1364500086 896441 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@host-224-58.dataart.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1364500090 615724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I import qualified Control.Lens as ^Lens < 1364500118 885899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't hth < 1364500142 251905 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is I,I help < 1364500146 348459 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what's this I,I thing i've been seein... right < 1364500156 551571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it looks like an owl face to me hth < 1364500157 748176 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of smiley, I think, hth < 1364500169 452231 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at shachaf, but not angrily, cause he's not a bot. < 1364500177 980661 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, I *think* he's not a bot.) < 1364500187 369627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: let your bot stare angrily at him instead hth < 1364500189 203724 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is almost certainly a bot. < 1364500197 769500 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no you're not < 1364500201 255222 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo /me ça marche tu? < 1364500201 449815 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/me ça marche tu? < 1364500204 235461 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1364500204 430002 :Gregor!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But aren't we all bots on the inside? < 1364500239 966689 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo ACTION ça marche tu? < 1364500240 363020 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ça marche tu? < 1364500258 914696 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thørjan. < 1364500283 964372 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inside idioms are coming so thick today i may need a machete < 1364500310 851983 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside idioms? < 1364500359 136527 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: strange phrases and behaviors common on #esoteric, like e.g. swedes don't understanding my phrases < 1364500363 707990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1364500426 691556 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :your phrases are not the only ones I'm having trouble understanding < 1364500470 967479 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok iyss hth < 1364500528 668166 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where me < 1364500529 288800 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, whatever you say < 1364500529 483286 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about me. < 1364500531 756209 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: those are just nanobots waiting for their command to destroy us, that's not the same thing < 1364500537 552049 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ me /me knows nothing about me. < 1364500538 36154 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never forget. < 1364500539 297508 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where me < 1364500539 919781 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows nothing about me. < 1364500541 432446 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~echo ACTION SOH < 1364500541 639813 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION SOH < 1364500553 971663 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid terminal that won't let me input \SOHs. < 1364500558 522698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh it works in lambdabot? < 1364500593 919494 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it is a special case, although i feel a slight twitching to try @where+ quit /quit < 1364500622 956190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait *itching i think < 1364500631 874437 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? < 1364500635 89071 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where+ quit /quit < 1364500635 283639 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is stored. < 1364500645 331639 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*gasp* < 1364500682 78865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: saves a piece of data. now if you were to try the obvious next step, which would be evil of course... < 1364500690 756678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is SO enabling today < 1364500698 143628 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to try what? that? < 1364500703 431754 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@where quit < 1364500703 626912 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/quit < 1364500706 982832 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1364500716 566263 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fool! < 1364500731 343182 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm... second time a bot abuses me or my mother. < 1364500798 263794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> '\1' < 1364500800 416036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : '\SOH' < 1364500824 838385 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i don't know about that client < 1364500861 589164 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in irssi i had to change a keybinding to allow inserting ^A < 1364500884 967983 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in weechat, in screen, in urxvt. < 1364500904 235099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i saw the weechat part < 1364500915 136234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've heard evil things about screen < 1364500941 245171 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are evil. urxvt lets me be unicodely evil. < 1364501103 180896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : imo stick with sigma algebras <-- imo good policy < 1364501139 307495 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can measure things properly. < 1364501475 108834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote symbian still exists? boily: That is not dead which can eternal lie. fizzie: and with strange aeons symbian will have >50% market share on mobile devices. < 1364501479 715422 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :996) symbian still exists? boily: That is not dead which can eternal lie. fizzie: and with strange aeons symbian will have >50% market share on mobile devices. < 1364501492 468505 :ssue_!uid5338@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rmcuoktonuxqmjoh JOIN :#esoteric < 1364501628 716131 :iamcal_!uid1110@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xrohxrkuvldyztls JOIN :#esoteric < 1364502044 934672 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, have you seen the patent that Red Hat just got invalidated when it was asserted against one of their customers? < 1364502072 647583 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, cool < 1364502077 935488 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it basically comes down to "rounding floating-point numbers by using a floating-point coprocessor" < 1364502082 119983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a clause in the support contract that obliges them to defend you < 1364502085 511420 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I think symbian "exists" at most as much as canada does < 1364502092 993941 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: who patented that? < 1364502095 266986 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISTR this is one major reason for The Enterprise to pay for Linux < 1364502111 902052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't know, but Uniloc seemed to own it < 1364502126 100915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, there is indeed a clause in Red Hat's support contract that they'll defend you from lawsuits < 1364502128 520223 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they were there < 1364502148 172437 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally the clause goes the other way, that you have to defend the distributor from lawsuits < 1364502164 626457 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for red hat it's one of the main reasons to pay them rather than just using fedora or centos < 1364502178 504826 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, going after someone for using an x87 CPU? O_O < 1364502197 647274 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sounds like a troll < 1364502204 790815 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :patents :( < 1364502229 583332 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: pretty much < 1364502255 470953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the court threw the patent out right at the start of the case, btw < 1364502277 764129 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :impressive < 1364502279 891831 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? :o < 1364502287 383160 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20130124104536791 < 1364502312 821311 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also has links to all the legal documents, if you're interested in those < 1364502330 193622 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"converting a floating-point number memory register representation to a floating-point register representation;" for real < 1364502507 64002 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, according to the patent itself, the claims’ novelty and improvement over the standard is the rounding of the floating-point number before, rather than after, the arithmetic computation." < 1364502619 459992 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do we know like what exactly they were suing over, like a particular CPU? < 1364502652 325710 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably in uniloc's motion < 1364502715 419137 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, perhaps they didn't say < 1364502716 163540 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says near the top that the Linux kernel infringed it (supposedly) < 1364502720 631648 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1364502724 937901 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the article, I mean, not the motion. < 1364502725 911445 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not surprising, really < 1364502741 937180 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of wondering how the kernel can infringe that o_O < 1364502765 821912 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem is whether the kernel does float calculations < 1364502767 926253 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm reading this right the idea here is a CPU that rounds floating point numbers during loads, letting it simplify the pipeline stages and improve performance in hardware float computation < 1364502784 83935 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: no, the idea is to round a floating point number when you move it from memory into the floating-point registers < 1364502787 786750 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if a piece of software can infringe that I guess I don't really get it... < 1364502795 832074 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, I thought that's what I said... < 1364502806 760035 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you brought a CPU into the discussion < 1364502820 233707 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the patent doesn't care whether it's the CPU doing it automatically < 1364502824 879585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you wrote code to do it by hand < 1364502826 481200 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the article mentioned it though... um... < 1364502837 143982 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As stated in the ‘697 Patent: < 1364502837 339073 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] < 1364502837 805247 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The benefit of rounding the operand instead of the result is that carry propagation is eliminated and no exponent adjustment is required. Additionally, due to the lack of result rounding, arithmetic < 1364502839 700585 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the x87 has a different bitwidth to a typical float or double < 1364502842 112844 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :operations have a more efficient implementation. In particular, it becomes possible to have fewer pipeline stages or eliminate conditionally performed pipeline stages thereby shortening the total logic delay of the arithmetic operation. < 1364502845 772849 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1364502851 794617 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the bit that confused me , sorry < 1364502855 616466 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'm wrong < 1364502865 759805 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although note that that bit of a patent, its only job is to be confusing < 1364502870 519281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's not legally binding < 1364502885 566451 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of feels like "maybe this was a legitimate invention for a piece of hardware, but now they're trying to twist it to go after linux"? I don't know >_< < 1364502913 291160 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uniloc's story mirrors an American theme seen over and over during the last few decades: a company that is discovering, growing and innovating technology ..." can't say i'm sympathetic to them from their site < 1364502932 167806 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1364502955 980516 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniloc not sure it's the same one, though < 1364502962 64344 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Look at many ideas. Pick an outstanding one. Patent it. Commercialize it. Reap the rewards." < 1364503047 735687 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uniloc is more than a device recognition company, however. Without tipping our hand we are developing really interesting ideas in the local advertising and entertainment content licensing spaces. Plus, we’ve got a few ultra-secret concepts we’re not ready to disclose publically yet. < 1364503058 316268 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Linux includes an x87 emulator. < 1364503060 652230 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gonna be honest here, I didn't know "device recognition" was a thing. < 1364503069 134419 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly not many systems *need* it, but still. < 1364503074 81379 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: aha < 1364503080 669427 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it < 1364503091 808382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the odds that Rackspace were actually using it, though? < 1364503096 589159 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Near-zero. < 1364503107 670821 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it wouldn't be too surprising that they just happened to be compiling it in. < 1364503119 671313 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on by default. < 1364503131 214144 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's the sort of thing you simply wouldn't go out of your way to disable. < 1364503155 328022 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though you're probably not running on a 486 or 386 sans FPU. < 1364503234 299742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Second, Uniloc can cite no support for its claim that a lack of specificity somehow renders a claim less abstract. < 1364503249 942191 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Snort. < 1364503267 332185 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't linux actually like drop 386 support a bit ago? < 1364503292 350390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many distributions dropped that a while ago. < 1364503301 585494 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Very recently, yes. < 1364503306 7737 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, Fiora < 1364503311 187733 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kernel did something, too, yes. < 1364503316 456244 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, some 486 systems do not have an FPU. < 1364503320 916479 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does linux still support 486? < 1364503321 931792 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning that that code is still relevant. < 1364503322 941875 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1364503335 985810 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not quite as insane to support the 486 as the 386. < 1364503346 579113 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does suing Red Hat about the kernel even make sense? < 1364503361 56963 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 386 doesn't have the atomic primitives necessary for a sane threading implementation. < 1364503364 151336 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think red hat has money < 1364503375 81880 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's that thing where you can't actually sue linus or someone, so you sue people who use it and have money < 1364503388 571859 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whereas the 486 does... < 1364503392 180368 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 486 is still relevant? as some sort of embedded cpu thingy? < 1364503399 24999 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :From a pure ISA standpoint it's not too hard to support. < 1364503406 639752 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yeah, it's still around in embedded use. < 1364503412 32515 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 386 isn't. < 1364503413 651354 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I"m wondering about, like, can you sue Red Hat for something they just use. < 1364503441 141631 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Sadly, patent law is really screwy in the case of software. < 1364503457 237051 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amounts to Red Hat being in violation because they compiled it. < 1364503463 999959 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. I just want to know a bit more about how scrrrrr oh. Oh. < 1364503475 287481 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... wow. < 1364503508 304587 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This sort of shit is why Microsoft regularly shakes down Android distributors for protection money. < 1364503518 231822 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of dubious patents on FAT. < 1364503563 289620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I thought Linux had a workaround for that patent ages ago < 1364503586 502238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which left it unable to write long file names on FAT, but still capable of reading them, or something like that < 1364503627 188909 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They've got several FAT patents, and these don't end up going to court. < 1364503761 559031 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides which, Android devices are starting to have to support exFAT. < 1364503789 961671 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because SDXC mandates it) < 1364503877 128375 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is honestly a fucking stupid decision on the part of Secure Digital, given that there's at least two filesystems entirely suitable for the purpose that don't have crazy license requirements) < 1364503886 664533 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FAT32 and UDF, namely) < 1364503978 86945 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they really really want Windows to support their new thingy < 1364503990 454723 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows already supports UDF. < 1364504032 465478 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, each version of Windows that supports exFAT supports UDF. < 1364504035 710 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1364504040 810768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FAT32 has that 4 gigabyte file problem. < 1364504108 60934 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1364504140 90917 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and significantly more versions of Mac OS support UDF) < 1364504162 531239 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(namely, Mac OS 9 and up) < 1364504355 722606 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 JOIN :#esoteric < 1364504383 644103 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1364504439 638875 :ThatOtherPersonY!~ThatOther@unaffiliated/thatotherpersony QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364504536 239692 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: and presumably Linux supports everything? < 1364504702 655601 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that exFAT in Linux was kind of iffy, due to the aforementioned issues. < 1364504716 590907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And exFAT is clearly part of everything.) < 1364504731 680071 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1364504774 859019 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, SCO are trying to reopen the case against IBM again < 1364504855 37030 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wonder what the next step for the SD family will be called; there's SD (SDSC?), SDHC and now SDXC. SDUC, for ultra capacity? < 1364504858 608948 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: Poulet! < 1364504860 972776 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1364504891 159136 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ID, because they realised nobody used the security features < 1364505004 4784 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not upstream at all. < 1364505019 332090 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait does LYAH just stop with zippers < 1364505026 728774 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, Linux supports UDF, and has since Linux 2.2 < 1364505050 892166 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-195-9.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, the author of LYAH disappeared mysteriously or something < 1364505086 800851 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah!! < 1364505217 25702 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no :/ < 1364505272 299549 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Miran Lipovaca is a computer science student in Ljubljana, Slovenia. In addition to his passion for Haskell, he enjoys boxing, playing bass guitar, and, of course, drawing. He has a fascination with dancing skeletons and the number 71, and when he walks through automatic doors he pretends that he's actually opening them with his mind." < 1364505308 736332 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously though, it just died in the middle of something? Not even a generalization of zippers? < 1364505376 478216 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is always Real World Haskell < 1364505414 608878 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just hang out in #haskell for 2 years and learn all the important shit nobody bothers writing down coherently and then get bitter and come here and complain about #haskell all the time < 1364505440 342090 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly, haskell is ineffable < 1364505454 851888 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't even try to eff it < 1364505466 825475 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :LYAH ends with Maybe (Zipper a) < 1364505470 102533 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot generalize zippers. tru fax. < 1364505480 272571 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many languages actually need to be TC? < 1364505490 169600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1 < 1364505494 711575 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how many typical programs wouldn't work properly in a sub-TC language? < 1364505502 262148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreters typically need a TC language < 1364505504 630327 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that < 1364505512 238554 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what has an interpreter < 1364505512 747510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: congratulations, you've reinvented total programming < 1364505524 298319 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: possibly < 1364505528 654229 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any form of computation stronger than TC? < 1364505531 465760 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in the context of Anarchy, which is a bit atypical as languages go < 1364505532 877679 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's always the kmc device: pointing out that linux has a JIT for packet filtering or whatever it is < 1364505540 900600 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: not ones you can "actually" "do" but yes < 1364505542 980066 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: not that we can _use_ < 1364505551 459801 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: "uncomputable"; the Church-Turing thesis is the theory that no uncomputable languages can be implemented in the universe that actually exists < 1364505561 748719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seems to be more of a religious than a mathematical belief < 1364505570 118179 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: There are several such theoretical models, but to our knowledge they cannot be actually implemented. < 1364505579 558265 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: there's an infinite hierarchy going turing machines, machines that have access to an oracle that determines whether turing machines can halt, etc etc < 1364505584 743365 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly, nobody has a working implementation of an uncomputable language; this was quite surprising when first discovered < 1364505586 800924 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there are some neat physics papers on it, though. < 1364505587 593544 :pikhq!~pikhq@71-219-223-77.clsp.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, "to our knowledge" is the tricky bit. < 1364505588 152031 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe it could be done in an universe that is uncomputable for our computers < 1364505604 91025 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: and it's not the only interesting hierarchy < 1364505607 817908 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of banana scheme < 1364505613 843120 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :'course not < 1364505621 621016 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives FireFly a banana < 1364505644 159994 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you should just hang out [...] <-- you missed "and write the book yourself" hth < 1364505662 670597 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disappear halfway through? < 1364505669 488677 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw this means I can now think of two different slovenians < 1364505670 300606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write a monad tutorial, we don't have enough of those yet < 1364505680 171181 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what are there more of: monad tutorials, or BF derivatives? < 1364505714 191531 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :to demonstrate this weird "monad" things, let's define a simple programming language < 1364505730 570730 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I've seriously considered writing a blog post about monad transformers in BF < 1364505740 445151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly for the purpose of trolling reddit < 1364505774 166031 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Tape monad < 1364505790 945345 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :istr Tape is a comonad, not a monad hth < 1364505862 77616 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write a comonad tutorial < 1364505873 647568 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do it < 1364505880 830308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm too lazy, but _maybe_ i could help cowriting it < 1364505894 668860 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably be really mathematically inaccurate < 1364505911 730653 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking about things like "double all the < and > so you can interleave two tapes" < 1364506423 709653 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does HTH mean "Happy to Haskell"? < 1364506447 702378 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :much the same as "lol" means "lots of love" < 1364506478 838969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style sms < 1364506479 33576 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20) < 1364506480 661538 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: lol < 1364506481 71070 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nw i has cum mre frm urself thn frm othrs hav done < 1364506494 377151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: That sounds vaguely dirty. < 1364506494 797132 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: want to eat chicken. note. sorry. anyway i can help let me just to talk to you about some cals. take a gd rest. nite nite. < 1364506514 800218 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't think bots can eat chicken. < 1364506515 356925 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: later. will come outside the lab? i hav to weigh me down! and insing de all not much review i am having a baddiarrhea... please update me on the street < 1364506548 139332 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now we know what happens when bots eat chicken. < 1364506569 743722 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid to go to my "server room" (it's not really that) now. < 1364506645 645729 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm an ugly lag here, i hope i'm not getting disconnected < 1364506668 214854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you responded to a ping in 0 seconds < 1364506696 478272 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the lag is between my laptop and my irc client < 1364506703 772735 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1364506734 384493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MILF -- May I Leave Flowers? < 1364507341 112371 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add a timeout < 1364507353 626707 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :everytime the timeout expires you break out of the loop < 1364507359 329653 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you're in the middle of it < 1364507377 624582 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell elliott Should we move Everett to the joke language list? As far as I can tell, the main idea is that although it allows you to express any program very concisely, you have to be very lucky for it to actually work < 1364507378 39226 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1364507386 821553 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thinking is _so_ out of the loop, man < 1364507393 474509 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I can put that on the talk page < 1364507667 494661 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what does it say about me that my reaction to the ISP's DNS apparently being dodgy is to, when I find a site I want to visit that's broken because of the DNS, looking up its address in a different server then adding it to my hosts file? < 1364507691 884573 :tswett_!~quassel@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com NICK :tswett < 1364507716 441246 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just use an alternative DNS < 1364507772 940514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but I don't want to < 1364507798 93250 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be easier < 1364507800 642852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't mention the fact that I was potentially doing something abnormal to the channel if there wasn't an obvious better way < 1364507861 131017 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so easy to use google dns < 1364507895 313034 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do you think it might be a monoid? < 1364507902 317474 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if I should do that DNSSEC thing. It doesn't really seem to be taking off very well. < 1364508051 727037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was a thing where qmail servers were unable to send mail to domains with DNSSEC enabled, because it couldn't cope with its "domain IN ANY" query returning a response that was larger than 512 bytes, which could easily happen with DNSSEC on due to all the keys. < 1364508064 449547 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb hates dnssec < 1364508100 770888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah but I distrust Google several orders of magnitude more than average < 1364508103 633214 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :qmail is also sort of dead. < 1364508114 114606 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :allowing them to see every site I visit would be ridiculous < 1364508148 697108 :Zerker!~zerker@cpe-24-24-168-181.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes) < 1364508251 605240 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is yet not a complete overview. Modules are likely to be part of C++17/22. < 1364508267 79264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iki.fi, a Finnish email forwarding serv^W...thing, toggled DNSSEC on at some point last year, and hit some of those qmail problems; or so they said in their recent yearly meeting.) < 1364508333 919525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen iki.fi used on occasoin < 1364508345 528613 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does it do? or is that too complex to explain easily? < 1364508350 770494 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is getting the system time a costly operation? < 1364508388 454719 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++17/22? and here I was hoping they'd kill that thing off some time soon, not make more standards < 1364508408 886788 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: not massively; it involves a context switch on most kernels, and those aren't particularly cheap < 1364508427 843942 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOMADWarrior: it's about the same cost as, say, an unbuffered read/write to a file < 1364508444 999920 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, there's a very cheap but nonportable method involving the CPU timestamp counters < 1364508445 365835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It is an email forwarding service, except apparently they can't call it service because a tax-exempt nonprofit can't provide "services". < 1364508455 319281 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm, right < 1364508467 469243 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does email forwarding in a non-servicey way? < 1364508496 865107 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Technically you pay a yearly membership fee, but the membership fee has been 0 during it's... 17 or so years of history. < 1364508507 319742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1364508512 843859 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they actually send invoices? < 1364508520 34108 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does a fee make them more of a service, or less of one? < 1364508520 678866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It'd be a hassle. < 1364508542 798536 :GOMADWarrior!~Regis@187.65.193.132 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't games send the dt to the physics update function? < 1364508570 53238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure the fee matters w.r.t. that. But perhaps more. < 1364508584 435589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a bit over 20k members. < 1364508621 31771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of which 93% have working email addresses, as measured by the number of bounces for the meeting invitation, or something like that. < 1364508650 583558 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there's a fee of 30 EUR when joining, which is what keeps the organization going; though the rate of getting new members has been slowing down the last couple of years. Which is quite understandable. < 1364508730 268381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do have some 440 kEUR of money collected and invested, though, which should be enough to keep things going for the next 15-20 years. And they're still getting enough new members to cover the bandwidth bills, though only just. < 1364508808 851635 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, technically the organization is supposed to in general promote Internet-related things; the name (Internet-käyttäjät ikuisesti, "Internet Users Forever") alludes to that. But the email thing is their most visible activity. < 1364508864 637685 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also a HTTP redirection service thing, and a DNS .iki.fi subdomain thing; and they've been participating in relevant public discussion and projects and whatnot.) < 1364509010 3537 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an amusing resemblance between the IKI funding model and a pyramid scheme, though. < 1364509070 740231 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.iki.fi/iki/statistics.html <- membership plot thing. < 1364509218 907061 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Their "reasons to join" list is delightfully antiquated; one of the listed reasons is "your email is in a X.400 system, with a long, dreary and hard-to-remember address". < 1364509284 435902 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how many people there are who still use an X.400 address, and communicate with "Internet people" through a SMTP gateway. < 1364509423 536811 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo might have an X.400 address < 1364509442 972516 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had one into some BBS system, but I've completely forgotten what it was. < 1364509623 130188 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 2 == -(-2) < 1364509625 94234 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : True < 1364509658 885808 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (0$0-) < 1364509660 855091 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Num.-' [infixl 6] of a section < 1364509661 55497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prece... < 1364509673 304191 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think X.400 was involved in the mail system at the insurance company where my mother worked at, 15-20 years ago. There were nasty email addresses, and some gateway-added messiness in emails. < 1364509790 216749 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.alvestrand.no/x400/debate/addressing.html has a nice table of x.400 attributes < 1364509812 358836 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those with PD- in front of them are used with X.400 networks that support delivery of mail by printing it onto paper and sending it to the postal service" < 1364509845 798976 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : GOMADWarrior: not massively; it involves a context switch on most kernels, and those aren't particularly cheap <-- not on modern linux < 1364509857 85007 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hmm, interesting < 1364509866 511024 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you mean the cheapness, rather than the context switch? < 1364509936 872313 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (-0^) < 1364509938 944338 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operator `GHC.Real.^' [infixr 8] of a section < 1364509939 138692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric : must have lower prec... < 1364509945 419791 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean clock_gettime or gettimeofday does not involve a context switch < 1364509969 331099 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: do they read the timestamp directly from the CPU, then? < 1364509998 803542 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: There is (was?) a gettimeofday optimilization so that it can read it from the vDSO page. < 1364510010 18489 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1364510029 943946 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, vdso magic, it goes to the vdso, and reads a shared page (shared with the kernel that is), containing the timestamp. It does some checks to make sure it read a consistent s+ns combo (not atomic, iirc it checks an update-counter before and after and retries if that changed) < 1364510032 134894 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it returns < 1364510035 308170 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :no context switch < 1364510048 107468 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's responsible for updating it? the MMU, upon detecing a read? < 1364510051 508313 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the kernel every tick? < 1364510052 999678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1364510061 590382 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :timer interrupt iir < 1364510063 124894 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1364510076 77921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember exactly < 1364510096 122092 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the kernel updates its periodically, and the user code uses RDTSC to get a delta from the last update < 1364510100 469302 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I'm pretty sure I mentioned this to you earlier, wrt Web of lies < 1364510108 839854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1364510121 469133 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems like a lot of trouble to go to for optimising reading the common time < 1364510123 616670 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I don't think this is used on 32-bit x86, only 64-bit x86, though I'm not sure < 1364510124 828686 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*current time < 1364510129 73270 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can't be a very common operation < 1364510138 455688 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you had the MMU fault on every access to that page then it would not really be more efficient than a syscall < 1364510144 391268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a lot of code calls gettimeofday() very often < 1364510154 648687 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that sounds kind-of broken < 1364510160 812931 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, really? < 1364510169 322782 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you're benchmarking stuff, for one.... < 1364510169 517740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, you reminded me of stracing some SDL code < 1364510174 323636 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd rather have a low overhead to benchmarking < 1364510193 876231 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it runs 1ms delays in a loop, and requests the current time each time round so it doesn't drift < 1364510194 274723 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mosh calls gettimeofday() often because it's recording the times of events, and scheduling events to occur at times in the future < 1364510214 144846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than delaying until the next time it actually has to do something, which would be the sensible option < 1364510231 790585 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can argue that this is 'broken' and Mosh should do more work to cache timestamps and fiddle with them < 1364510238 895207 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it does now, because of other platforms < 1364510260 863449 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the counter-argument is that the OS exists to provide useful abstractions to userspace and if cheap gettimeofday() is useful then it should provide it < 1364510269 661038 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1364510273 849478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than every app reimplementing that gettimeofday() + RDTSC offset logic locally < 1364510276 905423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably poorly < 1364510300 625769 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one reason this routine is provided by the kernel is that the exact steps you want to take depend on what timer hardware is available < 1364510322 810315 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is no guarantee that RDTSC is usable, unless your CPU has constant_tsc in /proc/cpuinfo flags < 1364510338 96014 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the automagic clocksource selection for that. < 1364510338 291690 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old early 64-bit Sempron didn't for example < 1364510347 328120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1364510354 423640 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez, really? I thought that was standard... < 1364510356 141149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you need more help from the kernel to use it < 1364510370 918041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Internet suggests that the vDSO approach is only enabled if /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/current_clocksource is hpet or tsc, and further that if it's hpet, it doesn't really buy anything since getting time from hpet is slow enough. < 1364510389 867015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel is aware of the events that can cause TSC jumps -- CPU clock speed changes, and rescheduling between cores < 1364510399 816316 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this does constant_tsc either, IIRC it's kind of a new thing really. < 1364510400 27367 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the intel manual says it was added in the pentium 1.... but yeah, like. geez, it's probably best to benchmark gettimeofday or something before deciding it's too slow... < 1364510407 863539 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: TSC != constant TSC. < 1364510414 257427 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's constant TSC? < 1364510422 683673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one that doesn't jump around all the time. < 1364510426 74414 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhhh. < 1364510427 657961 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Due to frequency scaling and whatnot. < 1364510437 786889 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, there's something about TSC and multiple cores.) < 1364510437 982385 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there's also the question of whether it's syncronized between cores < 1364510448 661615 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's an issue with rdtsc, I think in like all the recent intel chips it goes at the speed of the base clock, not the current clock < 1364510449 901904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the flags list on a modern x86 CPU is kind of insane < 1364510452 539184 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, this is why you need the kernel's help if you want to extract a monotonic clock from the TSC < 1364510453 766458 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx lahf_lm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln p < 1364510453 960883 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid < 1364510463 69892 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is Sandy Bridge < 1364510466 546694 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not even the latest < 1364510500 954447 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags : fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx pdpe1gb rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf eagerfpu pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx est tm2 ssse3 fma cx16 xtpr pdcm < 1364510506 511460 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 movbe popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm abm ida arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase tsc_adjust bmi1 avx2 smep bmi2 erms invpcid < 1364510510 382566 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:3 < 1364510517 115275 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, Ivy Bridge? < 1364510521 895558 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haswell~ < 1364510528 459638 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :secret unreleased processor :P < 1364510540 559673 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is haswell? the one after? < 1364510540 753772 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: it has SMEP but does it have SMAP? < 1364510544 18779 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMAP? < 1364510569 682054 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks it up. "Supervisor Mode Access Prevention?" < 1364510575 487479 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :prevents the kernel from accessing userspace data when it meant to access kernel data < 1364510586 520935 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhhhhh < 1364510589 450405 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, hey, wikipedia says Haswell is "under development". Seriously, what are you using :P < 1364510598 353097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, that thing that we had with segmentation 20 years ago < 1364510616 962432 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if that might be a Broadwell instruction? < 1364510623 293777 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what is SMEP? < 1364510625 372104 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with RDSEED and ADOX or whatever weird things < 1364510647 253997 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: same but prevents it from executing userspace code < 1364510651 186950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :flags: fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush dts acpi mmx fxsr sse sse2 ss ht tm pbe syscall nx rdtscp lm constant_tsc arch_perfmon pebs bts rep_good nopl xtopology nonstop_tsc aperfmperf pni pclmulqdq dtes64 monitor ds_cpl vmx smx est tm2 ssse3 cx16 xtpr pdcm pcid sse4_1 sse4_2 x2apic popcnt tsc_deadline_timer aes xsave avx f16c rdrand lahf_lm ida ... < 1364510655 135266 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, ah < 1364510657 161948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... arat epb xsaveopt pln pts dtherm tpr_shadow vnmi flexpriority ept vpid fsgsbase smep erms well, it doesn't lose a *whole lot*. (But it was the workstation at work.) < 1364510669 679394 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ohhh. I wonder if my kernel is actually too old to detect it? < 1364510680 321715 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is a ...? < 1364510698 114037 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. it's 3.8.3... < 1364510706 232922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Ivy Bridge Xeon, I think. I don't know how the numbers go. It does have a "3" in it. < 1364510707 799522 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why there's no smap then. < 1364510710 768079 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1364510718 225682 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's like a market segmentation thing where only the server chips have smap ? < 1364510719 629389 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a "V2" in it, I think that was also relevant. < 1364510723 513801 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Intel(R) Xeon(R) CPU E3-1230 V2 @ 3.30GHz" < 1364510742 344173 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux tux 3.2.0-4-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 3.2.39-2 x86_64 GNU/Linux <-- I clearly stopped caring about being on the latest kernel all the time < 1364510751 401915 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have better stuff to do than compile kernels... < 1364510763 444121 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: hee hee. it is a haswell :3 < 1364510767 42636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At home my flags are fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 clflush mmx fxsr sse sse2 ht syscall nx mmxext fxsr_opt rdtscp lm 3dnowext 3dnow rep_good nopl extd_apicid pni cx16 lahf_lm cmp_legacy svm extapic cr8_legacy which is really very short, compared to all that. < 1364510769 884151 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is serious! < 1364510770 178431 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, how? < 1364510781 375357 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :engineering samples~ < 1364510785 122714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@slap Fiora < 1364510785 681464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@74.207.243.105 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pulls Fiora through the Evil Mangler < 1364510788 603723 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :eeeep < 1364510791 348245 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, oooh, who do you work for? Heh. < 1364510801 564311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's for having a Haswell! < 1364510805 801965 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyahahaha~ < 1364510812 526045 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :awhg. you want one? < 1364510812 720381 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has well, will travel. < 1364510829 887528 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, you work for intel or a motherboard manufacturer? < 1364510832 440728 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would looove one for her own computer but  < 1364510845 540290 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or why would you have an engineering sample? < 1364510848 363301 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I have is ssh access without root to a test box that is somewhere < 1364510859 766522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1364510859 960840 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummm I'm using it mostly to write avx2 code < 1364510880 471670 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel/amd send out engineering samples to a bunch of companies in the months before release for various things I think < 1364510895 730161 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd guess board manufacturers and stuff get them first, then people doing software work and stuff? < 1364510901 857312 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora, Now I'm really curious. Who would be writing AVX2 code at this stage. Compiler writers? < 1364510906 195527 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really have no involvement in any of it, so >_< < 1364510913 446330 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo you should answer Vorpal's question < 1364510947 411444 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it87: Beeping is supported", says my boot-time dmesg. (it87 is one of those sensors chipsets.) < 1364510958 985028 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh? < 1364510967 50273 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard it beep, though. < 1364510971 294994 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh, it's too much fun not answering the question though! < 1364510971 489825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apparently beeping is supported. < 1364510972 66980 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think I even have a PC speaker on this thing btw < 1364510978 383897 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :beep boop < 1364510988 234667 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might beep over something else, for all I know. < 1364511006 215952 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find the usual TSC-related message I always get at boot. < 1364511035 952908 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm my boot is outside the circular buffer of dmesg < 1364511036 290882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I think the wording has changed. < 1364511046 244686 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Marking TSC unstable due to TSCs unsynchronized", is what it says. < 1364511054 995726 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cat /var/log/dmesg < 1364511055 326254 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat: /var/log/dmesg: Permission denied < 1364511056 362877 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1364511058 574337 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1364511072 603142 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I don't have tsc in the available_clocksource list.) < 1364511078 277470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you one of Today's Fad-Crazed Teens < 1364511091 618299 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpuset < 1364511091 812974 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpu < 1364511091 813165 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Linux version 3.2.0-4-amd64 (debian-kernel@lists.debian.org) (gcc version 4.6.3 (Debian 4.6.3-15) ) #1 SMP Debian 3.2.39-2 < 1364511092 126996 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1364511099 305541 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :cgroup are *REALLY* early < 1364511106 302882 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://o.onionstatic.com/images/21/21198/original/700.hq.jpg < 1364511138 44788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a bit of 0.000000's. < 1364511148 265014 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yup < 1364511160 331695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also it is always fun to run dmidecode on a home built computer. Usually a lot of "none" or "1234" or "to be filled by OEM" < 1364511160 611747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I,I [ 0.000000] Initializing clock < 1364511221 529316 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, that would be about the last 0.000000 line? < 1364511231 371847 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yep. < 1364511236 243115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think this has all that much. But it has some amount of empty fields. < 1364511241 345379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] hpet clockevent registered < 1364511241 540018 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000000] Fast TSC calibration using PIT < 1364511241 540194 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.004000] Detected 3310.564 MHz processor. < 1364511241 540304 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000001] Calibrating delay loop (skipped), value calculated using timer frequency.. 6621.12 BogoMIPS (lpj=13242256) < 1364511241 734691 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ 0.000004] pid_max: default: 32768 minimum: 301 < 1364511245 279199 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well THAT is interesting < 1364511256 682582 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell happened with that timestamp < 1364511275 849298 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Version: x.x" "Serial Number: Tue Jan 01 00:01:46 2008." < 1364511282 468866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks more like a date than a serial number to me. < 1364511288 711927 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is all that actually happening within 1µs? < 1364511296 135320 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or has the timer simply not started running? < 1364511311 452296 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux Kernel has come unstuck in time. < 1364511324 530206 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the time jumped *back*... < 1364511333 886571 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what confuses me < 1364511338 141380 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: yeah, I was talkign about earlier < 1364511342 558089 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1364511360 762512 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but yeah, until the timer is started all timestamps will be 0 < 1364511367 522627 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say how long that took < 1364511375 500450 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a few seconds at most < 1364511395 586540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1364511398 592748 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the dmesg timestamps in seconds since boot? < 1364511404 268158 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yes < 1364511418 836955 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Asset Tag: Asset-1234567890 < 1364511427 408837 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location In Chassis: To be filled by O.E.M. < 1364511447 815773 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is the location of the motherboard in the chassis, not sure why that info would be there < 1364511454 305762 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yama: becoming mindful." (more dmesg). < 1364511455 870286 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's that PTRACE limitation thing and such.) < 1364511479 983885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is the massive board taking up most of the side of the chassis, why would there be a tag for the location < 1364511483 693626 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=58770 seeeeee haswells exist and wow she got one months before I did too < 1364511497 499951 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have just "Asset Tag:" with an empty field there. < 1364511548 302911 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have so many entries for SATA ports heh < 1364511554 461555 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this board has a LOT of them) < 1364511591 896390 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one entry for each USB port here, too. All terribly useful. < 1364511597 299703 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually found that bug report by googling the microcode number of the CPU (I have no idea what this is but it looked unique) < 1364511598 683174 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x002B, DMI type 11, 5 bytes < 1364511598 877537 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEM Strings < 1364511598 877733 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : String 1: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1364511598 877841 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : String 2: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1364511599 720731 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : String 3: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1364511600 699688 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : String 4: To Be Filled By O.E.M. < 1364511601 919574 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1364511617 782539 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that too yes < 1364511618 149354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Internal Reference Designator: USB" "Internal Connector Type: None" "External Reference Designator:" "External Connector Type: Access Bus (USB)" "Port Type: USB" < 1364511623 234871 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all say exactly the same thing. < 1364511644 576624 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, all the fan power connectors are there too < 1364511654 670927 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x001A, DMI type 8, 9 bytes < 1364511654 865296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Connector Information < 1364511654 865568 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Reference Designator: USB3_34 < 1364511654 865681 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Connector Type: Access Bus (USB) < 1364511655 477656 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Reference Designator: Not Specified < 1364511656 664391 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Connector Type: None < 1364511658 827860 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Port Type: USB < 1364511661 759242 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hey my USB are different! < 1364511676 561796 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently my dmesg buffer spans 41 days < 1364511688 957951 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the PCI Express slots are there < 1364511692 529080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You've got actual names for them, I see. < 1364511692 724155 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, heh < 1364511722 728015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Looked at laptop's dmidecode, there they've decided to write "Not Applicable" to just about everything. < 1364511723 732042 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, I don't have 34 USB ports though, there is a jump from USB_12 to USB_34 for example < 1364511726 670601 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :more jumps like that < 1364511730 975699 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I reached 2^8 days uptime today < 1364511740 607276 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x002F, DMI type 26, 22 bytes < 1364511740 801481 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voltage Probe < 1364511740 801660 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: LM78A < 1364511740 801771 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location: < 1364511741 140221 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: < 1364511741 953148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Base Board Information: "Version: Not Applicable" "Serial Number: Not Applicable" "Asset Tag: Not Applicable" "Location In Chassis: Not Applicable" < 1364511742 978880 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice! < 1364511782 510996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume there's a (theoretical, at least) connector for USB ports 1 and 2 (USB_12) and for ports 3 and 4 (USB_34). < 1364511782 705357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also accuracy, tolerance and resolution are unknown for that probe < 1364511811 861507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually that is USB3_34, not USB_34 < 1364511828 658726 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, USB7_8 USB9_10 USB11_12 USB3_34 < 1364511828 957634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chassis: "Version: Not Applicable" "Serial Number: Not Applicable" "Asset Tag: Not Applicable" "Height: Unspecified" "Number Of Power Cords: 1" < 1364511831 532164 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the ones I have < 1364511834 822276 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :terribly logical < 1364511843 510438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good that they've bothered to specify the number of power cords, at least. < 1364511860 461129 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooling Device < 1364511860 656131 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Temperature Probe Handle: 0x0032 < 1364511860 656333 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Type: < 1364511860 656444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: < 1364511866 784422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Electrical Current Probe < 1364511866 978565 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Description: ABC < 1364511866 978723 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Location: < 1364511867 694282 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Status: < 1364511869 424263 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ABC? < 1364511875 379019 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMI information is such a mess. < 1364511886 541597 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :my PSU's type is OUT OF SPEC too < 1364511901 59507 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and this says "Voltage: 0.0 V" for my CPU 1. < 1364511906 43866 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I assume "System Power Supply" is PSU < 1364511911 217086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it runs on something else than electricity. < 1364511932 141898 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :itt: dmidecode < 1364511941 927121 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what does itt mean? < 1364511951 524001 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you guys think about Idris? < 1364511953 576831 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In This Thread, I've always assumed. < 1364511956 287675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, the Processor Information does have your-style "Serial Number: To Be Filled By O.E.M." "Asset Tag: To Be Filled By O.E.M." "Part Number: To Be Filled By O.E.M.". < 1364511958 982507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, what is that < 1364511986 616294 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :In This Thread < 1364511987 821795 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is tons more "To Be Filled By O.E.M." all over the place < 1364512018 986885 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-195-9.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1364512020 707221 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dmidecode? < 1364512031 684934 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a ton of those as well. You'd think they'd bother to fill it out for pre-built machines at least < 1364512033 705497 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, seems my BIOS support multiple languages: < 1364512036 52811 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIOS Language Information < 1364512036 248292 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Language Description Format: Abbreviated < 1364512036 248471 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Installable Languages: 6 < 1364512036 248584 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : en- < 1364512036 738036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : fr- < 1364512037 727468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : de- < 1364512038 665362 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : ja- < 1364512040 604193 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : zh- < 1364512042 479674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : chs < 1364512046 577513 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Currently Installed Language: en- < 1364512058 837661 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, since I don't HAVE a BIOS < 1364512063 950351 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad your bios doesn't support more languages anyway < 1364512067 709082 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: A dependent typing programming language with syntax somewhat similar to Haskell < 1364512069 239780 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an UEFI < 1364512079 155412 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, uefi is just another name for bios < 1364512081 532350 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, spammy isn't it XD < 1364512092 485344 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :uefi doesn't do a lot of things a bios does < 1364512095 975437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo dmidecode | wc -l < 1364512096 580948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :1130 < 1364512105 289921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I should /msg you the entire thing ;P < 1364512118 944778 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have 739 lines of dmidecode crud < 1364512142 678585 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have dmidecode < 1364512143 686024 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jUAd <- best battery info ever. < 1364512162 637700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose I can't say that e.g. "Manufacturer: Battery Manufacturer" would be untrue. < 1364512163 638188 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, that is an UEFI running in BIOS emulation mode, because I couldn't be bothered setting up GUID partition tables anyway (I use mdraid and LVM2 anyway) < 1364512185 28898 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm pretty sure the "Chemistry" field is completely bonkers, though.) < 1364512189 448087 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice 0x12345678 < 1364512208 498402 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :my system version is "System Version" with serial number "System Serial Number" < 1364512215 60491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, presumably chemistry = 0 = NiCd or something < 1364512227 882674 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a bit surprised they didn't write "Design Capacity: Design Capacity" too. (But maybe that only accepts numbers.) < 1364512236 560498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, yep: Serial Number: System Serial Number < 1364512241 320309 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OEM-specific Information: 0x12345678" well, that's helpful.. < 1364512251 230237 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, same as you for the version too < 1364512273 504958 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only x86 that has DMI right?= < 1364512292 969582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The laptop is also full of "Nominal Speed: Unknown Or Non-rotating" cooling devices. < 1364512294 751745 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ sudo dmidecode | wc -l < 1364512295 96624 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :638 < 1364512296 949646 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my laptop < 1364512318 627550 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one has sensible values from what I can see < 1364512323 510513 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :System Information < 1364512323 705263 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Manufacturer: LENOVO < 1364512323 705437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Product Name: 271434G < 1364512323 705553 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Version: ThinkPad R500 < 1364512325 761577 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.112 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1364512336 560977 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :573 on the desktop, 853 on the laptop. But of course the laptop's a lot newer; I would assume these things tend to increase as a function of time, generally. < 1364512353 259692 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0015, DMI type 8, 9 bytes < 1364512353 624577 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Connector Information < 1364512353 818602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Reference Designator: Not Available < 1364512353 818798 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Connector Type: None < 1364512353 818904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Reference Designator: USB 2 < 1364512354 634904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Connector Type: Access Bus (USB) < 1364512355 878832 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Port Type: USB < 1364512361 406574 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :USB 1, USB 2, USB 3 < 1364512365 377680 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, completely sane < 1364512389 546479 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@108-205-143-75.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364512389 860819 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@108-205-143-75.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net QUIT :Changing host < 1364512390 55486 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1364512392 571268 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it must have *some* to-be-filled fields? < 1364512411 905941 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, it has one OUT OF SPEC field, the "Memory Device" type field < 1364512431 675723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, there's a second battery in my laptop too. < 1364512442 707314 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, here is my battery: http://sprunge.us/OSGP < 1364512464 826919 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a lot of OEM-specific type with just a hex dump though < 1364512469 821335 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err FireFly ^ < 1364512479 927578 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are NO dummy values on my laptop < 1364512487 907561 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/BSBb -- both are located at "Location of the battery", but at least the other one is called "BATT 1" instead of "Battery Name", and also has known design numbers. < 1364512519 608534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't think the numbers are correct. < 1364512532 533274 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, which battery is in the location of which battery? < 1364512533 384891 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's some sort of a backup battery somewhere. < 1364512565 410331 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0028, DMI type 11, 5 bytes < 1364512565 644191 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :OEM Strings < 1364512565 644370 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : String 1: IBM ThinkPad Embedded Controller -[7VHT16WW-1.06 ]- < 1364512572 850775 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean "5 bytes" < 1364512581 115893 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that string looks much longer < 1364512582 95046 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they could've put the cmos battery in the dmi data? I wonder why though < 1364512584 872691 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good compression. < 1364512605 283908 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess: the entry has a pointer to a string table < 1364512613 422888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, probably < 1364512623 57619 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Modem ring resume is supported < 1364512626 55370 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1364512636 547342 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it actually *does* have a built in modem < 1364512641 329539 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suppose that is possible < 1364512657 973587 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :427 lines of dmidecode cruft on the Atom box; a "personal best" so far. < 1364512659 867352 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Zoom Video is supported <-- what? < 1364512669 629112 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :739 lines here < 1364512686 291516 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: oh, same as me < 1364512691 127695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I assume it would be length 0 on my Raspberry Pi < 1364512753 331572 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zoom Video (or something with a really similar name) had something to do with video-out-via-PCMCIA-slot. < 1364512758 11860 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, PC Card, I guess. < 1364512766 375845 :c00kiemon5ter!~c00kiemon@foss-aueb/coder/c00kiemon5ter PART :#esoteric < 1364512767 161650 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, well it does have a PCMCIA slot < 1364512778 940010 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one PC Card and one Express Card < 1364512801 48567 :TeruFSX!~TeruFSX@65-128-137-85.mpls.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364512842 446346 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :back to my desktop: < 1364512844 463051 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : 5.25"/1.2 MB floppy services are supported (int 13h) < 1364512844 657915 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.5"/720 kB floppy services are supported (int 13h) < 1364512844 658109 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3.5"/2.88 MB floppy services are supported (int 13h) < 1364512847 351907 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1364512873 948840 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Printer services are supported (int 17h) <-- that would be parport? < 1364512883 651921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a parallel port < 1364512917 780155 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi should watch out for those printer services < 1364512928 607586 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8042 keyboard services are supported (int 9h) < 1364512935 403699 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a PS/2 keyboard? < 1364512941 852039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have a PS/2 connector < 1364512944 953240 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, or the controller for it < 1364512962 405688 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No (or not much, at least) nonsense entries on the Fujitsu-Siemens Lifebook, either. OTOH, it's a "real" laptop. < 1364512965 918480 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm talking about your machine, by the way. < 1364512966 316082 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: break for dinner. haven say wat u nd leh!! mug mug. now we can get an early spring is coming early yay hahaha btw today i cmi for run...paiseh.... < 1364512978 318950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1364512978 570480 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms* speeches ss wp youtube < 1364512980 917794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know what "mug mug" means. < 1364512986 741717 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style enron < 1364512986 936834 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset) < 1364512993 876999 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.149.218 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1364513022 903442 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Connector Information < 1364513024 302349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Reference Designator: GbE LAN < 1364513024 302536 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Connector Type: None < 1364513024 302640 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Reference Designator: GbE LAN < 1364513024 302739 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Connector Type: RJ-45 < 1364513024 302840 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Port Type: Network Port < 1364513030 962990 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is technically correc < 1364513032 983674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct* < 1364513052 92929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it have a RJ-45 hole in it? < 1364513053 293196 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure ethernet is not "proper" RJ-45, though it is the same connector < 1364513091 827426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a reasonable name, though. < 1364513093 858467 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I thought RJ-45 required a specific wiring scheme (wrt which colors go to which pins), which was not used for ethernet < 1364513101 888199 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody knows what you mean if you say "8P8C" or something. < 1364513116 854064 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I know < 1364513120 338900 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know too < 1364513129 451679 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my laptop makes the same mistake though < 1364513132 535628 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mug mug sounds like it should mean something < 1364513143 165403 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I do. :-P < 1364513148 416435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0012, DMI type 8, 9 bytes < 1364513148 630891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Connector Information < 1364513148 826324 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Reference Designator: Not Available < 1364513148 826499 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Connector Type: None < 1364513148 826605 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Reference Designator: Modem < 1364513149 809747 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Connector Type: RJ-11 < 1364513151 31857 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Port Type: Modem Port < 1364513152 896539 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1364513154 833427 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong one < 1364513158 630470 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handle 0x0013, DMI type 8, 9 bytes < 1364513160 698225 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port Connector Information < 1364513162 610367 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Reference Designator: Not Available < 1364513164 700286 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Internal Connector Type: None < 1364513166 652965 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Reference Designator: Ethernet < 1364513168 722785 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : External Connector Type: RJ-45 < 1364513170 764641 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Port Type: Network Port < 1364513172 716015 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the RJ-11 one IS correct though < 1364513184 96861 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slist < 1364513186 159952 :HackEgo!codu@codu.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1364513291 712171 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Print screen service is supported (int 5h) < 1364513294 387514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1364513317 559372 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, actual print screen < 1364513363 108618 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, my chassis is empty: Contained Elements: 0 < 1364513390 347696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you configure those DMI strings heh < 1364513425 209031 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a commit today! < 1364513437 808495 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :To quote man dmidecode: "BUGS: More often than not, information contained in the DMI tables is inaccurate, incomplete or simply wrong." < 1364513448 380282 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1364513448 763294 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: welcome to the world of version control! < 1364513468 913867 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, fuck Eclipse < 1364513521 747189 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, hg? git? darcs? < 1364513534 900529 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses TFS < 1364513545 263264 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVN < 1364513545 458899 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :TFS? < 1364513545 871696 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCCS! < 1364513546 971248 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1364513553 231633 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, I feel sorry for you < 1364513553 558419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no SCCS. < 1364513561 916547 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@173.3.78.166 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's so terrible about SVN? < 1364513562 149871 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :svn isn't /bad/ < 1364513562 734804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least that isn't VSS < 1364513564 785272 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just outclassed < 1364513569 41120 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :RCS over a shared smb filesystem? < 1364513569 657215 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, VSS is a disaster < 1364513578 611433 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: sounds about as reliable as VSS < 1364513595 550383 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also Vault, a VSS compatible software, but slightly less buggy < 1364513596 686518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No DMI table can be both consistent and complete. < 1364513598 94921 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :still terrible < 1364513598 472461 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is rcs at all safe against multiple users? < 1364513615 477204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In version control news, we're putting (most of) our recognizer thing into github in the next few months. < 1364513622 971138 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yeah, it just refuses to commit if someone else is using it at the time < 1364513626 484305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was used many years ago at the place I work (hg nowdays), but I recently had to get some old code from it. < 1364513636 794795 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you explicitly have to cede control of the file and let someone else work on it < 1364513651 628202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's safe via lack of functionality < 1364513727 798325 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, if it doesn't work in the first place, it can't break < 1364513741 921659 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know one former VSS shop, but I forget what they migrated to. Perhaps Perforce? < 1364513748 994202 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it also detects that it's in a situation it doesn't work < 1364513750 953228 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that seems reasonable < 1364513759 421348 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why is that reasonable? < 1364513770 175398 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what I've heard, perforce is the only paid-for non-d vcs that actually has advantages in some situations < 1364513778 403129 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know nothing about Perforce... Wait isn't that a build system? Perforce Jam or something? < 1364513787 603938 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's got some kind of git client support these days. < 1364513800 979651 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what advantages would that be? < 1364513804 562225 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perforce is a CVCS with support for very large files, most notably < 1364513814 890322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.perforce.com/product/components/git-fusion < 1364513831 7652 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can put a massive file in hg. It isn't going to be a good idea, but I can. < 1364513835 820264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perforce Git Fusion removes the bottlenecks that come from using Git while also making Git more productive. Git Fusion is a seamless addition to the Perforce distributed version management environment. That means Git developers can continue to use their preferred tools unchanged. Release managers can assemble their projects using tried-and-true engineering processes. And administrators have ... < 1364513836 14890 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is your point < 1364513841 670314 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... enterprise-class IP security, availability and visibility across all projects and teams." < 1364513884 919282 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or rather, it isn't going to be a good idea if it is also a binary file < 1364513886 68683 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably what that means is that they've heard developers like Git, but they'd still want to sell stuff, so they've hobbled together a thing that lets you clone a Perforce repo with git, and push stuff to it. < 1364513891 719661 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :a massive text file wouldn't be an issue < 1364513921 196565 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, it also gives "enterprise class IP security" < 1364513925 471520 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we're talking about things like the entire assets for an AAA 3D computer game < 1364513926 107654 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEHOW < 1364513932 352112 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea being that you can still control versions < 1364513933 639512 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or possibly make parts of a Perforce megathing into a set of configured Git repositories. < 1364513936 119036 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it isn't text < 1364513936 369147 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, so binary files then < 1364513937 551269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyhow. < 1364513950 259842 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binary files in git? < 1364513952 690623 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about merging < 1364513957 72443 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that well known to be a horrible idea < 1364513958 800372 :Madoka-Kaname!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan NICK :Lymia < 1364513964 488233 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so by bolting on perforce you can avoid "making your Git developers use bolted-on tools"? < 1364513975 18587 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia, yes, we were talking about Perforce, not git < 1364513998 771606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :TWIST: ALL FILES ARE BINARY FILES < 1364514011 604621 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Not on trinary storage media < 1364514012 687994 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1364514016 674588 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I guess the common use case is that you're already doing Perforce. < 1364514020 31874 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, ternary* < 1364514056 79537 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1364514074 354728 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with trinary < 1364514081 571020 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next you'll call octal octary < 1364514090 63597 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure "ternary" is the correct word though < 1364514104 904687 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not tertiary? < 1364514107 869519 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, and don't be silly, that would be octarian of course! < 1364514122 57547 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, good point < 1364514136 994381 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, not good point < 1364514140 420254 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364514154 981143 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1364514171 599340 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unary files < 1364514171 793978 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1364514192 964287 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ternary_numeral_system "Ternary (sometimes called trinary)" <-- clearly ternary is more common according to wikipedia (a source you can always trust ;) < 1364514207 451947 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, I hate making smilies inside parens < 1364514211 707068 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ends up awkward < 1364514237 645086 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-194-156.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :use smileys that don't involve parens, like I,I < 1364514239 187537 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a source you can always trust ;\)) < 1364514257 386462 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, hm, the length of the file would uniquely identify the file < 1364514277 47906 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is cool < 1364514295 918194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: One thing I know Perforce has is plugins into things like Photoshop and 3ds Max, so that the artists can also be using it. (Probably won't do anything for merging that kind of stuff, but still helps.) < 1364514312 548807 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-240-66.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1364514312 811757 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh < 1364514324 74349 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I wonder what those provide then < 1364514342 313670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I assume the same sort of thing version control plugins for an IDE would. < 1364514358 84208 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't really use those < 1364514416 701438 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-34-68-165.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1364514433 242510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, apparently Perforce's P4Merge can diff images visually. < 1364514452 16406 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is nice < 1364514456 504693 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can it merge them? < 1364514467 159743 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, good look doing that with vector graphics < 1364514522 438162 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector images are... < 1364514525 640051 :Jafet!~Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :... textfiles < 1364514544 486398 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, not always < 1364514552 128374 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, could be using a binary encoding < 1364514555 762993 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :svg doesn't < 1364514570 186882 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm pretty sure there were vector graphics before svg < 1364514713 354738 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1364514737 743417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out it was Surround SCM they migrated to. (I understand it tries to do a bit more configuration-managementy stuff.) < 1364514739 31196 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash does vector images that aren't text