00:01:22 `seen aftran 00:01:28 not lately; try `seen aftran ever 00:01:33 `seen aftran ever 00:02:04 No output. 00:02:15 wat 00:02:18 `seen aftran ever 00:02:49 No output. 00:09:48 `seen oerjan ever 00:09:52 2013-04-11 00:02:18: `seen aftran ever 00:10:08 `seen HackEgo ever 00:10:12 2013-04-11 00:09:52: 2013-04-11 00:02:18: `seen aftran ever 00:10:28 that sounds like an amuseing loop 00:10:37 `seen santa ever 00:11:08 No output. 00:11:25 *amusing 00:11:43 `seen mauke ever 00:11:51 2011-09-03 07:36:50: when things would be ambiguous otherwise 00:22:53 -!- augur has joined. 00:27:11 that has been awhile 00:44:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:44:25 -!- Bike has joined. 00:45:30 Bike: did you know coq's regular old instance resolution can make typechecking fail to terminate :( 00:46:31 Oh no! 00:47:34 `slist 00:47:35 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 00:48:23 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 00:48:49 why do you keep doing that? 00:48:54 -!- copumpkin has joined. 00:49:07 it hasn't changed in quite awhile 00:49:08 -!- btiffin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 00:50:09 doesthiswork, er? 00:50:24 the purpose is to notify all those people 00:50:31 that... some webcomic or something has updated 00:50:45 ah that makes lots of sense 00:50:57 this is the grim post-google-reader future 00:50:58 it really doesn't, but that's nice of you to say 00:51:39 man i wish i knew more about economics so i could gloat about bitcoins more 00:51:58 I rescaled the sense to fit these scales 00:52:03 that's the best reason to learn stuff PH 00:52:04 Oh, good move. 00:52:07 kmc: what you fail to realise is that slist has existed for like a year 00:52:18 well I guess you were probably here when it got invented 00:52:19 maybe? 00:52:22 maybe more like two years 00:52:26 it was a slow evolution 00:52:26 except it only became automated recently 00:52:27 `run slist | tr n-za-m a-z 00:52:29 fyvfg: Tnaro ngevd Ntriq Fvben abeggv Strb TungOgurePrefba nybg 00:52:47 and at no point was there a definitive point where it became insane 00:52:57 hm 'tr a-z n-za-m' is easier to pronounce 00:53:02 well actually there were several such points but that's too mundane 00:53:30 aren't like nine of those the same person anyway 00:53:33 so what is olist for? 00:53:41 a different webcomic 00:53:57 sgeo appears to be trying to build this into a commercial empire 00:54:11 shachaf is actually the monster behind the scenes here 00:55:30 shachaf is arthur frayne and shachaf is zardoz 00:55:32 I just use rss to keep track of the 250 webcomics I read 00:56:41 yes but without google reader rss is useless 00:57:13 maybe I should execute plan switch to firefox 00:57:22 beyond 1984, beyond 2001, beyond love, beyond google reader 00:57:32 I don't think all of them depend on google reader 00:57:34 elliott: why 00:58:03 why did google shut down reader anyway 00:58:44 kmc: well chromium likes to eat all my memory and crash because i use hundreds of tabs and maybe firefox is better at that nowadays 00:58:58 kmc: and also, i have trouble keeping track of the aforementioned tabs 00:58:58 ime firefox is laggy in a way that makes my whole wm laggy 00:59:00 ymmv 00:59:04 so tree style tabs or whatever might be nice 00:59:13 are there not those fro chorm 00:59:19 i don't think so 00:59:28 okay there is a "beta" version 00:59:39 it seems like extensions make chromium slow and crashy though 00:59:50 do you actually have literally hundreds of tabs 00:59:50 astral aves is a pretty good webcomic http://astralaves.com/ 00:59:53 -!- monqy has joined. 00:59:56 also I would like to maybe block javascript by default for performance reasons and I think firefox has better options in that regard 00:59:59 Phantom_Hoover: yes 01:00:06 how do you think 01:00:07 well 01:00:10 how do you count tabs in chromium 01:00:20 okay there is an extension for it 01:00:22 doesthiswork: that's kind of an unfortunate font but i'll check it out, thanks 01:00:23 ahh, is this about the elliott problem 01:00:25 let me run this untrusted JS code on my computer so I can tell you 01:00:31 tabcounter+ 01:00:59 currently i have 55 tabs open 01:01:02 but this is a "light" session 01:01:05 only started recently 01:01:08 -roll- 01:01:09 It (shouldn't) be a matter of running untrusted JS being bad, just running untrusted JS in a position of privilege 01:01:11 usually i have at least twice the windows 01:01:18 and so far none of my tabs have had their titles becomes unreadable 01:01:31 bike: normally it is an actual comic, this is just a short interlude 01:01:40 well you're running it in your browser which is your OS so that's impossible sgeo 01:01:44 doesthiswork: i figured. 01:01:53 idk how you can live with multiple windows 01:01:58 kmc: what WM do you use 01:02:19 Sgeo: um do you trust your browser not to privilege any code at all 01:02:26 no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. no. yes. 01:02:39 the false knight on the road 01:02:58 ok tree style tabs for chroem looks useless 01:03:09 it's literally a drop down menu you have to click in the toolbar to use lol 01:03:15 nice 01:03:23 I said shouldn't. Practical realities of bugs aside, etc. 01:03:33 ok there's a variant that 01:03:35 spawns a new window for it 01:03:39 imo fuck this 01:03:56 elliott 1 technology 5 01:04:17 just use firefox and get it over with, or does their variant suck too 01:04:30 everything sucks in elliottworld. 01:05:04 Even suckless? 01:05:11 well yes hes picky about trivialities that much is obvious. those ui concerns are real but the underlying issue is that he --sgeo.............................................. 01:05:34 --mismanages his tabs horrendously 01:05:44 * Sgeo isn't allowed to make jokes? 01:05:49 nope 01:05:53 sorry 01:05:54 the real issue is that monqy cannot imagine being good enough at browsing the internet that you have hundreds of interesting tabs because he is a sad, pathetic person 01:05:58 and i feel sorry for him! 01:07:26 kids 01:07:27 kids 01:07:30 you both suck 01:08:01 does everything suck in phantomhooverworld too 01:08:20 only the hoovers 01:08:30 makes sense 01:09:51 also most kinds of pump 01:13:51 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo no | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:14:32 Gregor: that's barley an improvement 01:14:45 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo needs moar saurkraut | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:15:34 *sauerkraut 01:15:40 acid cabbage 01:15:46 -!- Gregor has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? imo needs moar sour krauts | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:28:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:29:36 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 01:29:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 01:30:58 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:32:04 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:32:40 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 01:32:40 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 01:33:52 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:41:59 help 01:42:00 what am i 01:42:16 rye 01:42:22 a letter 01:42:22 hi shachaf 01:42:29 shachaf: you seem to be a verb 01:42:34 `run slist | r13 # hth 01:42:36 fyvfg: Gnaro ngevd Atriq Svben abeggv Ftrb GungBgureCrefba nybg 01:43:17 -!- shachaf has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? 'course i am! | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 01:45:04 so 01:45:06 monqy and kmc: hey you know the thing on "internet forums" where there are old threads and they tell you "don't bump old threads"?? 01:45:08 is bitcoin still fucked 01:45:10 what's with that 01:45:24 if an old thread is relevant why shouldn't i post in it...... 01:46:02 it varies from community to community, and also what the thread is and what you're contributing and if the thread's completely outdated by new thread and so on 01:46:22 isbitcoinstillfucked.com 01:46:39 yes but it seems to be "kind of dogmatic" and across a lot of communities.. 01:46:45 if you make that site i will pay you 01:46:50 in bitcoin 01:47:00 it even seems that people would rather have you start a whole new thread rather than post to the old one 01:47:20 bitcoin has always been fucked, and at war with eurasia. 01:47:22 well maybe they heard "don't bump" and didn't understand the reasons 01:47:29 because usually people start reading a thread at the beginning 01:47:39 well but i'm talking about the "administrators" or whatever they're called 01:48:04 if it defaulted to the very last post when the thread got too old people probably wouldn't complain as much 01:48:13 and sometimes "they're all like this thread is locked" and 01:48:20 what perpetuates this 01:49:01 maybe the admins picked it up from the forums they were on as a kiddo 01:49:10 they heard "dont bump" and took it to heart........ 01:49:11 probably 01:49:17 but why.......... 01:49:29 well if you go back far enough they probably had their reasons at some point 01:49:33 balls & bollards 01:49:34 people are the devil 01:49:41 monqy excluded 01:49:47 =/ 01:49:58 "do you want to be the devil too" 01:50:09 sure why not 01:50:14 fine 01:50:19 people are the devil 01:50:38 [conspicuous nonexclusion of monqy] 01:50:46 Does that mean Satanists worship people? 01:50:55 Weight Watchers personal assessment seems to assume I want to lose weight 01:50:59 And have tried losing weight before 01:51:06 Thanks, Weight Watchers 01:51:10 what do humanitarians do 01:52:18 shachaf: Because it takes time to load the conversation into their memory. if your post can be isolated into it's own thread then they do not have that problem. If the thread is recent enough it already is in their memory so they have no problem with another post in that thread 01:55:03 Even with short threads? 01:55:16 3 posts? 01:55:30 how short is short? 01:57:42 What's that thread that was a decade between posts? 01:58:05 Weight Watchers personal assessment seems to assume I want to lose weight <-- does weight watchers even do the opposite? 01:58:12 `quote thread 01:58:14 708) the allocation is done by the "Dynamic" in DRAM before that we used SRAM where everything was preallocated in the factory olsner: So what's this SDRAM then? fizzie: synchronized, it's for multithreading 01:58:17 itt the weight loss industrial complex 01:58:27 shachaf: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ImAHumanitarian hth 01:58:27 olsner.troll.moed++ 01:58:54 What if my weight is perfect and I just want to watch it because it's so good? 01:59:04 Narcissist. 01:59:45 oerjan: does that link say "im a humanitarian i eat humans.........".................... 01:59:53 @karma olsner.troll.moed 01:59:53 olsner.troll.moed has a karma of 1 02:00:05 shachaf: MAYBE 02:00:11 (mostly.) 02:00:29 @@ @run length . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:00:32 2310 02:00:43 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isSuffixOf`) $ @show @karma-all 02:00:46 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 02:00:46 with actual ty... 02:00:49 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isSuffixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:00:52 0 02:00:55 Hmm. 02:01:01 @@ @run length . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:04 5 02:01:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:01:09 @@ @run filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:11 [" \"adrake.j4cbo.moed\" 1"," \"olsner.troll.moed\" 1"," \"rbraun.m... 02:01:22 @@ @run drop 2 . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:24 [" \"rbraun.mberwer.moed\" 1"," \"Slizyboy.moed\" 1"," \"ttuttle... 02:01:27 @@ @run drop 4 . filter ("moed"`isInfixOf`) . lines $ @show @karma-all 02:01:29 [" \"ttuttle.cannibal.moed\" 1"] 02:03:35 I guess lambdabot spent some time around that other channel. 02:17:39 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:18:26 that ttuttle does look like a humanitarian 02:20:03 -!- impomatic has left. 02:20:31 * Sgeo has still not migrated away from Google Reader :( 02:20:46 oops? 02:27:29 me either but i did download my feed list 02:27:34 so what should one use instead 02:28:06 #esoteric 02:28:07 Nothing here 02:28:34 see 02:29:03 `run echo esoteric | tr a-z n-ma-z 02:29:05 tr: range-endpoints of `n-m' are in reverse collating sequence order 02:29:09 `run echo esoteric | tr a-z n-za-m 02:29:11 rfbgrevp 02:30:00 kmc: My father used to use Google Reader and is using feedly.com now. 02:47:42 I'm trying to find something else to use. 03:00:51 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 03:30:19 `slist 03:30:21 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 03:31:32 sgeolist 03:31:41 like craigslist but it's about things Sgeo is interested in 03:32:13 oh man i would, well, not subscribe to that list but it wouldn't matter because i'd hear all about it anyway 03:32:36 p. much 03:34:14 ~? 03:34:25 .? 03:34:33 ,? 03:34:42 (trolling for bots) 03:34:47 )? 03:34:55 ) ? 03:34:56 Sgeo: ? 03:35:13 That was somewhat unexpected 03:35:24 found one 03:35:29 ) fungot 03:35:30 kmc: |value error: fungot 03:35:40 that used to be a lot more fun 03:35:49 oh fungot isn't even here, what gives 03:36:22 fizzie gives 03:36:25 and fizzie takes away 03:36:32 run sgeolist | r13 irc://irc.freenode.net:6667/# hth 03:38:15 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:38:55 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 03:38:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 03:39:07 so close to making any sense 03:39:28 hm HackEgo can't access the internet directly can it 03:39:36 it would be fun to run an irc client in HackEgo and connect to freenode 03:40:27 /bin/xzibit 03:40:56 heh 03:41:09 xz --ibit 03:41:27 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:42:40 apparently there was a "Where are They Now?" episode of Pimp My Ride where they checked in to see how many of the tricked out cars had been crashed by their owners 03:42:54 wonderful! 03:57:38 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 04:14:35 `slist 04:14:38 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 04:17:49 is `slist another omic? 04:18:06 i read that as nomic 04:18:30 I meant is as comic but nomic is fun too 04:18:56 i read it as nomic and i dont even know what a nomic is???????????Help 04:19:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic 04:28:33 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 04:37:05
04:40:44 -!- hagb4rd has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 04:54:34 ▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅▅▃ ▃ ▅▄▁▂▃ ▃ ▅▄▅ ▆▆▆▆▅▄▄▄▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▇▇▇▇▆▅▅▅▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▆▆▆▆▅▄▄▄▃ ▃ ▃ ▁▂▇▇▇▇▆▅▅▅▃ ▃ ▃ ▃ 04:54:43 r u ok 04:54:46 yep 04:55:00 you? 04:55:05 yeah i'm alright 04:55:07 cool 04:55:26 hey everyone 04:55:29 hichaf 04:55:29 that is an interesting language. do you call it amplitude? 04:55:33 i'm not so al right.. 04:55:37 oh no 04:55:42 :( 04:55:57 maybe i should see a doctor 04:56:01 what kind 04:56:15 philosophy?? 04:56:20 what kinds are there 04:56:34 nephrologist, opthamologist, gastroenterologist 05:06:34 Psychologist? 05:07:39 shachaf: what kind of not all right, i meant, also 05:11:32 -!- monqy has joined. 05:11:46 Entomologist? 05:12:44 well i mostly meant to break up the monotony of social interaction "r u ok" "yep you?" "yeah i'm alright" "cool" with something else. think of it as an art piece 05:13:23 but as it happens i'm also kind of sick recently, but it's getting better mostly, i think 05:13:42 famous last words 05:13:57 maybe i have tuberculosis 05:14:09 i hear that's up and coming 05:15:10 that would suck 05:15:30 Probably lupus. 05:15:45 Probably. 05:17:57 `run python -c $'import math,encodings\nb=" "+"".join(unichr(c) for c in range(9601,9609))\ns=""\nfor i in range(0,100):\n x=i/5.\n y=math.sin(x)+math.sin(3*x)+math.sin(5*x)\n s+=b[int((y/6+0.5)*len(b))]\nprint encodings.utf_8.encode(s)[0]' 05:17:58 ​▄▆▇▇▅▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▅▇▇▆▃▁▁▂▃▄▃▃▃▃▄▄▂▁▁▃▆▇▇▆▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▅▆▇▇▄▂▁▁▃▄▄▃▃▃▄▄▃▁▁▂▄▇▇▆▅▄▄▅▅▅▄▄▆▇▇▅▃▁▁▂▄▄▃▃▃▃▄▃▂▁▁▃▆▇▇▅▄ 05:19:00 cute 05:19:35 "cute" -- ⓒ Ⓒ © monqy 05:19:39 Now make it do a square wave. 05:19:45 Proper-like. 05:22:14 `run python -c $'import math,encodings\nb=" "+"".join(unichr(c) for c in range(9601,9609))\ns=""\nfor i in range(0,100):\n x,y=i/5.,0\n for j in range(1,99,2):\n y+=math.sin(j*x)/j\n s+=b[int((y/6+0.5)*len(b))]\nprint encodings.utf_8.encode(s)[0]' 05:22:15 kmc: It looks like OS X v. latest turned off the cups web UI by default. 05:22:15 ​▄▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▅▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▃▅▅▅▅▅ 05:23:30 Hmm, given the sampling rate I think the one harmonic there actually is the whole square wave. 05:28:01 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:28:30 shachaf: good for them 05:28:38 Jafet: nice 05:59:31 -!- fungot has joined. 06:01:01 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:06:45 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 06:08:25 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 06:08:30 -!- shachaf_ has quit (Changing host). 06:08:30 -!- shachaf_ has joined. 06:08:38 -!- shachaf has quit (Disconnected by services). 06:08:42 -!- shachaf_ has changed nick to shachaf. 06:10:03 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:13:13 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:16:32 -!- sivoais has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 06:18:11 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:18:19 -!- FreeFull has joined. 06:19:05 const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 }; 06:20:17 kmc: main is usually a function 06:20:23 (this is like when they say the title of the film in the film) 06:20:42 Is that meant to have an rdtsc? 06:20:59 Oh, wait. 06:21:08 does it work shachaf 06:21:22 Works here 06:21:24 I don't know? 06:21:56 it should do the same thing as perl -e 'while(1){print"\xe2\x95".("\xb1","\xb2")[rand 2]}' 06:22:11 It does 06:22:37 It seems very biased. 06:23:03 As in, mostly /s, with occasional chunks of mixed /s and \s. 06:23:19 also i'm blind now, help 06:23:46 Even though rdtsc has an 'r' in it, I don't think it returns random numbers. 06:26:08 :< 06:26:16 seems good enough here 06:26:33 we do a syscall between rdtsc calls 06:27:01 Even so. 06:27:30 strange 06:27:44 How small can you make a Linux "yes" executable? 06:27:46 using the timing between things to generate random bits? 06:29:02 shachaf: do you mean the size of the whole ELF file, or do you allow some other exe formats, or do you mean only the instructions 06:29:05 for the former, see http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html 06:29:09 Fiora: yeah 06:29:15 oooh. that's a cool trick 06:29:20 http://sprunge.us/JBJW -- sure, that *could* be the output of an unbiased rng, but on this box it seems to have a larger than expected number of runs of alternating 0s and 1s. 06:29:33 I know. 06:29:39 OK, let's say just the size of the instructions. 06:30:09 kmc: maybe for better randomness you could, like, sum a bunch of rdtsc results and pick the low bit? 06:30:12 Fiora: that's interesting 06:30:19 er i meant 06:30:21 fizzie: that's interesting 06:30:25 SORRY FIORA 06:30:31 -_- 06:30:31 Fiora: yeah, I wanted to keep it as small as possible though :) 06:30:43 I wonder what other terrible things you could use for entropy 06:30:50 Fiora: mooz's Befunge-93 interpreter on the TI-86 used the Z80's R register (some sort of a RAM refresh counter) to implement ?. 06:31:18 yeah, that was a common ti calc trick 06:31:25 "timing between things" in general is I guess what mostly feeds /dev/random's pool. 06:31:49 the galaksija uses the R register as a framebuffer pointer during the video routine 06:32:07 and just executes garbage instructions (which also happen to be string literals for the BASIC interpreter, gotta use those bytes!) 06:32:28 honestly I'm happy if my maze program gives different, weird results on different machines 06:32:47 The Hunt the Wumpus Befunge port quite often ended up having a long run of being unable to create the dungeon. 06:32:52 What if it makes people go blind? 06:34:17 hope not 06:34:20 seems p. unlikely 06:34:29 http://codepad.org/FghOek0i am I missing something and not using the least significant bit? 06:35:12 maybe some other bit is actually more random 06:35:40 hm if you have invariant TSC and your CPU clocks down to an fraction of half of the top speed 06:35:43 an fraction 06:35:55 you see where i'm going with this 06:36:00 would that affect the randomness of the low bit? 06:36:19 movl $0xb195e2, (%rsi) what does this do o_O 06:36:40 stores that 32-bit constant at the address in %rsi 06:36:43 Probably related to that codepoint it prints out? 06:36:47 Those aren't /s. 06:36:48 but like, why? 06:36:56 that's the UTF-8 encoding for one of the characters 06:36:59 ooooh 06:37:00 backwards 06:37:05 sorry, I missed the context of your question 06:37:18 I wonder if rdtscp would be better. 06:37:20 wasn't sure if you were objecting to AT&T syntax (which would be p. valid) 06:37:27 oh! sorry, I wasn't 06:37:37 I'm more used to AT&T syntax than Intel syntax. :-( 06:37:41 does that make me a bad person 06:38:09 me too :/ 06:38:28 geez having more experience with one syntax than another doesn't make you a bad person... XD 06:39:06 anyway time to tweet this (that's the cool way to distribute c programs) and then sleep 06:40:05 goodnighties 06:40:28 `gccrun 'const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 };' 06:40:36 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: gccrun: not found 06:40:53 `run echo 'const unsigned long main[] = { 0xc7e68948c7ffff31, 0x24310f00b195e206, 0xd231f88902460001, 0xe9eb050f03b2 };' > maze.c && gcc -o maze maze.c && ./maze 06:41:05 ​╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╲╱╱╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╲╱╱╲╱╲╱╱╲╲╱╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╲╱╱╲╱╱╱╱╲╱╱╲╱╲╲╲╲╱╲╲╲╱╲╱╱╲╲╲╱╱╲╱╲╱╱╱ 06:41:06 oh. there's no nice way to change rdtsc to rdstcp, they're different sizes :< 06:41:12 welp 06:41:15 awesome 06:41:23 new favorite program 06:41:24 0F31 -> 0F01F9 /7 06:42:01 Fiora: rdtscp because of the fence? 06:42:26 I was wondering if maybe rdtscp might give better results? I'm not sure 06:42:34 good night all :) 06:42:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 06:43:03 kmc: ♞ 06:43:09 Fiora: I tried rdtscp and it also has the / bias. 06:44:19 huh. is / the 0 or the 1? 06:44:51 hmm. maybe the parity of the result might be more random than the lowest bit? 06:45:34 that's super weird though, I'd be really curious about why that's happening 06:45:52 kmc: what's this "olsner.troll.moed"? 06:46:19 Referring to that quote, I assume. 06:47:34 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 06:48:22 kmc: I get what looks like good randomness looking at bit 2 (i.e. inserting shr $2, %eax after the rdtsc) 06:48:52 If I shift by one I still get long runs of /, and in addition I get some long runs of \ 06:49:57 I get all sorts of other patterns shifting by other amounts. 06:52:14 what about popcnt(rdtsc)&1? 06:52:19 does that work maybe? 06:53:13 Now I have to figure out how to popcnt. 06:53:57 -!- fftw has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 06:54:10 I guess the loop usually takes a not-completely-random number of cycles to run 06:54:56 Oh, I can just popcnt %eax, %eax? 06:55:06 That seems to work too. 06:55:29 olsner: With a syscall in the middle? 06:55:52 -!- sivoais has joined. 06:58:02 sure, that mixes it up a little, or maybe it usually goes through a fast path that just moves a byte into a buffer and moves on 07:01:51 yay for x86 extensions having every instruction ever :3 07:02:56 I see leading zero count but not trailing zero count?! 07:03:17 Oh, even LZCNT is AMD-only. 07:05:33 Oh, that's bsr. 07:06:24 I should learn how x86 instruction encoding works. 07:07:21 there are probably better things to waste brainspace on :) 07:07:55 bsr/bsf can do lzcnt/tzcnt basically? 07:08:11 the main difference with the actual lzcnt/tzcnt instructions is they have defined behavior if the input is zero, I think 07:08:23 Right, I didn't know and/or forgot about bsr. 07:08:33 LZCNT was added by AMD in SSE4a, TZCNT is added in BMI1 (which also nicely includes lzcnt for consistency, so now amd/intel are equal again) 07:08:35 There's always the thing with de Bruijn indices. 07:08:41 -!- fftw has joined. 07:08:52 tzcnt has actually a really fun weird property 07:08:53 Er, de Bruijn sequences. 07:08:58 its opcode is actually equal to "rep bsf" 07:10:24 so you can use tzcnt in code that runs on older cpus, and it will execute fine as long as your code doesn't rely on the specifics of tzcnt (like defined behavior at 0) 07:10:39 it makes valgrind choke though XD 07:11:11 So does VEX 07:11:20 Or at least it did when I tried it. 07:11:57 yeah, but like, "rep bsf" was a thing that worked on earlier cpus, so it's not like it's actually a new instruction 07:12:00 at least sort of? 07:12:01 it's weird 07:13:01 Well, Intel has never cared about backwards compatibility. 07:13:28 oh right, LZCNT does the same thing. LZCNT is "rep bsr" 07:13:33 Are you still supposed to do rep ret? 07:13:34 but that one is deceptive and evil 07:13:48 because, like. "tzcnt" gives the same result as "bsf", I think, when the input isn't 0 07:14:06 but "lzcnt" gives the number of leading zeroes, while "bsr" gives (bits in register) - (number of leading zeroes), I think 07:14:09 I'm pretty sure bsf also has defined behaviour on zero (ZF = 1, undefined value in the register), it just might not be behaviour you'd like. 07:14:43 GCC compiles ffs(i) into bsf + cmovz. 07:14:44 oh. yeah, you're right 07:14:58 it's the result that's undefined not behavior, sorry 07:15:15 And rep ret isn't in the latest AMD optimilization manual any more. 07:15:57 And one manual in-between had replaced it with a three-byte encoding of "ret 0", anyway. 07:16:12 (I suppose perhaps because that's more legal?) 07:16:33 the x86 prefixes have always kind of confused me >_< 07:17:05 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:17:10 are x86 instructions monoids 07:17:58 Should `? monoid say "Monoids are just x86 instructions" instead? 07:18:42 `? monoids 07:18:46 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 07:18:47 `? monoid 07:18:49 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 07:18:53 Heh. 07:19:33 -!- ousia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 07:19:38 speaking of BMI, pdep and pext look like really really cool instructions 07:19:47 they're like, that weird kind of instruction that -looks- raelly cool, but I can't figure out how to use for anything <.< 07:20:31 Oh no, instructions that aren't in my intel\ combined\ manual.pdf 07:20:35 Do I need to download a new one? 07:20:42 http://download.intel.com/products/processor/manual/325383.pdf 07:20:55 the manual doesn't include unreleased instructions (stuff that's in the SDE, but not in released CPUs) 07:21:05 so I'm guessing when haswell comes out they'll add in the avx2 stuff and all that? 07:21:13 That file is 6MB! 07:21:18 moving it from one pdf to another I guess 07:21:22 oh wait no that's the wrong one >_< 07:21:25 http://download-software.intel.com/sites/default/files/m/8/a/1/8/4/36945-319433-011.pdf 07:21:32 sorry, I linked to the regular instruction reference -_- 07:21:37 Better. Only 2MB. 07:21:40 I can probably manage 2MB. 07:22:01 -!- btiffin has joined. 07:22:14 There should be a law where you have to expand all the acronyms you use. 07:22:24 I'll call it the AEL[Acronym Expansion Law]. 07:22:45 glwt 07:22:52 XD 07:23:01 SDE -> Software Development Emulator 07:23:16 it's a super cool thing where you just go sde -- ./program args and it'll magically run the program as if it had all the instructions 07:23:26 with dynamic recompilation and magic 07:23:50 Sounds like fun. 07:24:05 shachaf: sorry, joking. gtwt, good luck with that 07:24:45 Fiora: I'm sure pdep and pext will be well-received by the thousands (if not millions) INTERCAL implementers, for implementing SELECT and MINGLE. 07:24:50 XDDDDD 07:24:59 what do those do that pdep/pext will help with? 07:25:20 SELECT *is* pext, I think. 07:25:34 oh wow 07:25:40 Maybe bit order details are different, I don't know. 07:26:22 But it takes bits from X that correspond to set bits in Y, and packs them to the low end. 07:27:00 And MINGLE interleaves bits from X and Y, in alternating order, which sounds like something pdep could help with. 07:27:10 (pdep+pdep+or, or something.) 07:28:56 curious newbie question; esolang being what it is, ..., what development platforms are people here using for work? 07:29:30 AIUI, they're the building blocks of almost all INTERCAL maths, since they're the only binary operators; AND, OR and XOR are all unary. 07:29:48 I'm building GNU/Linux based machines for placement in hotel rooms. bash, python, php, c, c++, umm, you know Linux land 07:30:10 http://palms.princeton.edu/system/files/IEEE_TC09_NewBasisForShifters.pdf oh fizzie here was the paper I found the other day 07:30:16 it's apparently related to the pdep/pext stuff 07:30:50 it's basically a new type of shifty-bit circuit that's a little higher latency but can do all kinds of crazy arbitrary bit shuffles (like pdep, pext, and stuff) with fewer gates than a normal shift unit 07:31:13 (The unary bitwise ops apply on every two consecutive bits, so if you want regular A&B, you need to mingle A and B, then perform the operation, then SELECT every other bit.) 07:31:24 the author's done a lot of stuff related to stuff like this, she's really awesome 07:31:38 and is apparently a wonderful simd dork 07:32:00 "SIMD dork" is a nice term. 07:32:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:33:14 I think that is an accurate description of me -_- 07:33:53 -!- rodgort has joined. 07:35:01 As for the at-work question, I suppose most of the code our speech group is involved in is in C++ (dirty parts of the recognizer), MATLAB (research code), Python (glue) and Perl (more glue). 07:36:19 (Some of the Perl might not be entirely glue.) 07:37:54 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:38:54 fizzie: thanks 07:39:01 I guess the pdep/pext stuff might be squee material for people forced to work with stuff like RGB565 07:39:11 or other weird bit-level-packed data formats 07:39:57 Bit permutations for crypto, perhaps? 07:40:17 are there formats that do that nowadays? 07:40:30 I remember reading that it was a big deal in DES, but that, well, this kind of comes a little late for that XD 07:40:32 I don't really know about modern algorithms. 07:41:26 I know rotates are still a big thing in hashes and stuff 07:41:37 and AES uses table lookups to do GF(2) multiplication on bytes I think 07:41:42 I have a feeling AES is quite byte-oriented. 07:41:44 or something like that (sboxes or something) 07:42:01 but you can apparently do those with pshufb (there's actually a really cool paper on timing-attack-immune pshufb AES) 07:42:10 and of course now it's all sorta silly because of AES-NI 07:42:16 -!- ousia has joined. 07:44:11 http://shiftleft.org/papers/vector_aes/vector_aes.pdf oh yay here it is 07:48:11 nice name 07:49:41 ? 07:50:20 -!- ais523 has joined. 07:50:40 shiftleft 07:51:01 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: sleep). 08:04:52 * Fiora yawns 08:05:02 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:05:19 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:09:42 -!- btiffin has left. 08:14:33 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:15:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:20:10 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 08:32:39 -!- Jafet has joined. 08:52:48 `slist 08:52:49 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 08:58:41 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:05:31 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:07:21 Is there a term for when you have two sets, and one of them is a subset of the other, but you don't know which? 09:08:36 the smaller one's got to be the subset, right? 09:10:49 Fiora: Well, they might be the same sizze. 09:10:54 s/z// 09:13:08 if they're equal it still counts as a subset 09:13:30 but I don't think there is a term for uncertain subsetyness 09:13:54 Taneb: It's called two-sets-and-one's-a-subset-but-I-dunno-which, HTH, HAND. 09:14:36 ...right 09:14:54 Fiora, you might not know the size, or they might be infinite? 09:16:33 oooh 09:16:36 that makes sense 09:18:23 The reason I want to know this is kinda really stupid 09:18:32 is it about ixset 09:18:37 No 09:18:46 is it about monoids 09:18:49 monoids are easy 09:18:50 ...No 09:18:55 It's about Venn diagrams 09:19:27 is it about hugs 09:19:28 @hug Taneb 09:19:29 http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug 09:19:34 hugs? 09:19:50 I want to be able to describe annuloid (?) Venn diagrams 09:19:56 Fiora, tender embraces between two people 09:20:16 Taneb: what i do with my tender is none of your business 09:20:16 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:20:53 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 09:20:54 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 09:21:43 Maybe you could use some sort of a symbol that's a combination of ⊆ and ⊇ -- a bit like ≶ but with the dash too -- to describe your situation. There's for example ⫓, ⫔, ⫗ or ⫘. 09:22:00 fizzie++ 09:23:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 09:23:35 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:24:11 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 09:24:11 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:24:14 Oh, there's ⋚, I just missed it. 09:24:35 Wonder how much use the "less than, equal to or greater than" operator gets. 09:25:18 "it's probably a real number" 09:25:19 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:25:22 "that's all we know" 09:26:15 > ≻ ⊱ oh no it's curling up 09:26:15 mueval: recoverEncode: invalid argument (invalid character) 09:26:23 lambdabot: That's not what I meant. 09:27:16 (Unicode: the best thing for people on sick leave?) 09:31:25 fizzie: presumably ⋚ is the unicody way of writing <=> from Perl 09:34:01 As usual, there's both ⋚ and ⋛. (If they do have the semantics of the Perl <=>, perhaps the other one could be reversed.) 09:34:43 I would *hope* that ⋚ is a relation. 09:34:48 (Which <=> isn't.) 09:36:16 (⋚) :: Ord a => a -> a -> Bool; _ ⋚ _ = True 09:36:25 D had <>= which basically meant that both sides can't be NaN, IIRC 09:36:48 Not "x <>= y" ---> "x = x <> y"? 09:37:02 D has monoids? 09:37:06 x !<>= x was equivalent to isnan(x) 09:37:39 -!- carado has joined. 09:41:35 > let (<=>) = ((pred . fromEnum) .) . compare in zipWith (<=>) [1,2,3] [3,2,1] 09:41:37 [-1,0,1] 09:41:39 Yay. 09:43:30 > let (<=>) = (signum.).(-) in zipWith (<=>) [1,2,3] [3,2,1] 09:43:32 [-1,0,1] 09:44:49 > let (<=>) = (signum.).(-) in maxBound <=> (-1 :: Int) 09:44:51 -1 09:46:51 Still needs -2 for isNaN anyway 09:47:47 I just posted to a Haskell mailing list about how people weren't giving NaNs the respect they deserve. 09:56:26 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:57:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:59:43 Taneb: Unasked as in unspoken. 09:59:50 You could be an acting acting teacher. 09:59:54 Or student. 10:00:20 I have considered it, oddly 10:00:26 Which? 10:00:36 Being an acting student 10:00:47 Why did you consider it oddly? 10:01:09 I sort of did a headstand then asked all my friends whether I should 10:01:29 * Fiora glances up, hugs Taneb 10:01:32 What about your #esoteric pals? 10:01:43 Fiora is your friend too! 10:01:54 I hadn't met Fiora back then 10:02:00 And I was in a hurry, with no time to IRC 10:02:03 None of us had. 10:02:24 `help 10:02:24 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 10:02:40 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:02:50 `? d-modules 10:02:52 D-modules are just modules over the ring of differential operators. Taneb invented them. 10:03:02 Is that true? 10:03:16 At least half of it is 10:03:24 Perhaps even three quarters. 10:03:43 You invented them, and they're modules over the ring of differential operators, but they're unjust? 10:03:54 (closer to 9/16) 10:03:58 @wn justice 10:03:58 *** "justice" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" 10:03:59 justice 10:03:59 n 1: the quality of being just or fair [syn: {justice}, 10:03:59 {justness}] [ant: {injustice}, {unjustness}] 10:03:59 2: judgment involved in the determination of rights and the 10:04:00 [7 @more lines] 10:04:02 @more 10:04:03 assignment of rewards and punishments 10:04:04 3: a public official authorized to decide questions brought 10:04:06 before a court of justice [syn: {judge}, {justice}, {jurist}] 10:04:07 -!- jix has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:04:08 4: the United States federal department responsible for 10:04:10 enforcing federal laws (including the enforcement of all 10:04:12 civil rights legislation); created in 1870 [syn: {Department 10:04:14 `? justice 10:04:15 of Justice}, {Justice Department}, {Justice}, {DoJ}] 10:04:18 justice? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:04:29 `learn Justice is just behavior or treatment. 10:04:34 I knew that. 10:04:36 I'll just go with Google define:'s definition. 10:04:41 -!- jix has joined. 10:05:03 Justice is just an endofunctor in the category of morals 10:05:10 Sometimes justice is just ice. 10:05:30 sometimes monoids are just mono ids 10:05:36 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 10:05:37 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Client Quit). 10:05:59 `?hh conspirabiology 10:06:02 cohnspihrahbiohlohgy ihs whehre mohth cohlouhrihngs fohrm a doht mahtrihx dihsplay to sehnd you suhblihmihnahl mehssahgehs. 10:06:42 shachaf, D-modules are just modules over rings of differential operators, and someone called M. G. M. van Doorn wrote an article on them which is cited by Wikipedia 10:07:01 `?hh siberia 10:07:03 Sihbehria ihs the cahpihtahl ohf Fihnlahnd. Iht's whehre the Fiehlds Mehdahl wahs fihrst syhnthehsihsehd. 10:07:18 `? sgeolang 10:07:20 sgeolang currently is either J or Io. 10:07:22 Wow, outdated. 10:07:31 `? monqy 10:07:39 The friendship monqy is an ancient Chinese mystery; ask itidus21 for details. 10:07:51 @ask monqy i love friendship monqy !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 10:07:52 Consider it noted. 10:08:21 `? comonad 10:08:23 Comonads are just monads in the dual category. 10:08:24 `? comonads 10:08:26 Comonads are just monads in the dual category. 10:08:37 What! 10:08:42 There's a pluraliszer in `? 10:08:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:08:50 `? gazspacho 10:08:52 gazspacho is a hungarian szoup, tradizsonally szerved cold for hot szummer dayz 10:08:58 `? ngevds 10:09:03 ngevd is a fake wisdom entry. `? ngevd is special-cased in bin/?. leave this file alone Phantom_Hoover‼ 10:09:10 whoa dude 10:09:11 Taneb: 10:09:15 Taneb++ 10:09:18 brilliant 10:09:21 `? Fiora 10:09:23 Fiora is a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:09:43 `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:09:45 ​¯\(°_o)/¯ `? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:11:55 `? oerjan 10:11:58 Your evil overlord oerjan is a lazy expert in future computation. Also a lying Norwegian. 10:12:09 `? cooerjan 10:12:11 cooerjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:12:16 `? coöerjan 10:12:18 coöerjan? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 10:12:28 whoaoerjan 10:14:27 can we please change mine :< 10:14:37 gopher it 10:14:47 `learn Fiora isn't a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:14:51 I knew that. 10:15:03 `? Fiora 10:15:05 Fiora isn't a freakin' vriskapologist. 10:15:11 `learn Fiora this is a test 10:15:19 I knew that. 10:15:21 `? Fiora 10:15:23 Fiora this is a test 10:15:26 oh, cool 10:16:51 you can't leave it like that ........................ 10:17:48 `learn Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. 10:17:53 I knew that. 10:18:28 wow i thought you were fructose :'( 10:18:32 how disappointing 10:20:39 but sucrose contains fructose! 10:22:13 i thought you were all fructose 10:22:51 high Fiora corn syrup 10:23:16 what's a vriskapologist anyway? 10:23:46 `? Fiora 10:23:56 Fiora is half JRPG fangirl, half SIMD dork, and all sucrose. 10:23:57 ais523: Fiora is. 10:23:59 much better -_- 10:24:25 shachaf: that doesn't answer the question, and might not even be true because she changed it 10:24:50 ais523: "Vriska" is a character in a comic strip that some people here read. 10:24:54 ah right 10:25:08 I read some comic strips occasionally, but not that one 10:25:51 Do you follow `olist? 10:25:56 We can put you on `olist. 10:26:09 We can remember it for you wholesale. 10:26:15 `run ls bin/*list* 10:26:17 bin/emptylist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/listen \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/pbflistdeluxe \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 10:26:19 I never set it to that to begin with, it was someone teasing me 10:26:20 -!- Tod-Autojoined has joined. 10:26:24 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 10:26:44 We can put you on `pbflist or even on `pbflistdeluxe 10:26:54 Or `smlist. Everyone loves super mega comics. 10:27:04 shachaf: I'm not a fan of the `list notification just because I might not be in the channel at the time, so I'm going to check the site anyway 10:27:08 Most of the personal wisdoms might be third-party-set. 10:27:14 and also I often don't want to look at the comics the instant they update 10:27:29 but rather, when I'm not at work and have some free time 10:27:38 But what if they update once every few months? 10:27:38 and have nothing better to do 10:27:43 Do you want to check them every day? 10:27:49 shachaf: then I'll likely check once every few years :) 10:28:02 With `pbflistdeluxe, you don't need to be in the channel. 10:28:05 We get the message to you. 10:28:18 there /are/ some things that could interestingly do with updates, such as new IOCCC s 10:28:22 * IOCCCs 10:28:30 Feel free to make an ioccclist. 10:28:31 but we normally put those in the topic because everyone here should theoretically be interested in them 10:28:38 Oh. 10:28:54 I thought the topic was for jokes and off-topic things. 10:28:57 I'd like to be put on the elerlist, please. 10:29:01 should we put the UCC in the topic, incidentally? it's not an exact fit for the channel, but I imagine many people here would be interested in it 10:29:02 For that matter, that's what I thought the channel was for. 10:29:12 Many people here are. 10:29:22 But who hasn't heard of it already? 10:29:27 shachaf: well the channel is a community for people with common interests 10:29:49 it turns out that people who like esolangs generally tend to like various other things too 10:31:09 -!- Taneb has set topic: Koen_: be a Haskell person. | am i rye? 'course i am! | Underhanded C Contest: http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/. 10:32:12 shachaf: fwiw, topic notifications moderately indirectly lead to me gaining a lot of money 10:32:16 so they're not exactly useless 10:32:32 and nothing prevents them coexisting with random garbage 10:33:07 ais523: They do? 10:33:15 How does that work? 10:33:34 shachaf: well, most of the people here are interested in at least one esolang 10:33:38 many people in more 10:33:59 It was a toss-up between taking Economics and Drama, and I ended up doing Latin 10:34:05 and yet, we can sustain discussions aout other things for a while with many people participating, and occasionally the occasional person complaining in a passive-aggressive way with everyone else ignoring them 10:34:32 I meant the money thing. 10:35:01 shachaf: well it was about a competition with prize money offered 10:35:20 allegedly a result in computability theory, but it was actually an esoprogamming competition in disguise 10:35:35 Ah. 10:35:38 (I suspect the reason I won may have been because other people attempting didn't realise it was about esoprogramming) 10:35:58 What was the goal of the competition? 10:36:26 A new kind of computability theory 10:37:24 Taneb: it was the 2,3 machine thing 10:37:51 if you've somehow managed to miss the story, I can go over it again 10:37:59 Nah, I know the story 10:38:08 I thought you did 10:38:13 which is why I was surprised at your question 10:38:49 I was just imagining something more like the IOCCC or UCC 10:39:21 right 10:40:02 Did anyone ever come up with a less controversial proof? 10:41:50 I don't think the proof is the controversial part 10:42:03 I heard the story at the time but I didn't know it was ais523. 10:42:11 I probably wasn't in the channel at the time. 10:42:22 Taneb: the controversy is not about the proof itself, but about what it's proving 10:42:41 Right 10:42:47 and I agree with pretty much everyone else that the situation is currently poorly-defined 10:43:13 and would like to find better definitions, together with a demonstration that the examples in the proof fit that definition, before actually publishing 10:43:18 From this information I can estimate your age! Ahahaha! 10:43:24 btw, by "example" here I mean the opposite of "counterexample" 10:43:34 as in, something that proves the entire theorem just by existing 10:43:36 i estimate ais523's age at 523 10:43:46 rather than "something added to make it easier to understand" 10:43:55 it'd be nice if we had two different words for those concepts 10:44:13 "countercounter example" 10:44:32 Taneb: Uh, we're kind of intuitionists around here... 10:44:52 ++example; 10:44:53 shachaf: not in general; I rarely find reasons to use intuionistic logic 10:44:58 linear logic, otoh, I use all the time 10:46:18 oh, I have a question for #esoteric 10:46:28 Intuitionistic logic seems to fit well with a lot of programming things. Maybe they aren't esoteric enough. 10:46:28 how would you interpret "λf.λx.λx.f(x)(x)"? 10:46:46 Same as λf.λy.λx.f(x)(x) 10:46:48 I would like to read it as xs referring to the inner one. 10:47:09 OK, so you're mentally interpreting the lambdas as having lexical scope 10:47:12 I guess that's reasonable 10:47:27 I don't think f(x)(x) syntax is standard. 10:47:38 Is it hinting at something that I'm missing? 10:47:40 Otherwise alpha equivalence would yield incorrect results? 10:47:46 shachaf: it is standard, just the concept it's describing is normally not often used in languages that have that function call notation 10:48:09 read it as (f(x))(x) 10:48:09 I mean standard in the same line with λs. 10:48:16 oh 10:48:22 that's mathematical notation 10:48:30 It's one kind of mathematical notation. 10:48:33 I did it that way so it wouldn't remind people of any particular programming language 10:48:48 The lambdas remind me of lambda calculus, which is pretty well-defined. 10:48:57 I thought this was just a question of where we put the parentheses. 10:48:58 It reminded me of my days messing with Python's lambda construct 10:49:11 If it's a questionf lexical vs. dynamic scope, well, dynamic scope is crazy. 10:49:16 So lexical scope. 10:49:21 anyway, the most obvious semantic interpretation appears to be equivalent λf.λx.λy.f(x)(x); the λx replaces all the xs, then there aren't any more xs left for the other λx to replace 10:49:31 shachaf, what do you think of mixed scope? 10:49:47 "replaces"? 10:50:13 ais523: Do you also have this interpretation for λf.λx.λx.f(x) ? 10:50:24 If so the other x is just muddling things up. 10:50:31 shachaf: yeah, but that other x adds new possible answers 10:50:37 like λf.λx.λy.f(x)(y) 10:50:42 Hmm. 10:50:57 before you say that's absurd, that's actually what the standard mathematical categorical semantics produces 10:51:08 I spent all last night writing a multi-page essay on why it's wrong :) 10:51:15 λf.(λx.(λx.(f(x))(x))) is how I imagine it, ridiculously bracketed 10:51:27 Taneb: yeah, it parses like that 10:51:33 the question is how the lambdas match the xs 10:51:34 Which contains (λx.(f(x))(x)) which has an obvious meaning 10:52:03 Which can be alpha-converted 10:52:07 I think being able to extract any subexpression the way Taneb did -- possibly with free variables -- is a good property. 10:52:16 I'm not sure I understand where your interpretation comes from. 10:52:35 Which leads to incorrect results with the semantic interpretation 10:52:41 hmm 10:52:52 OK, so if we're working in a linear logic 10:53:02 (λx.(f(x))(x)) is an open term 10:53:15 because you're using two xs, but only supplying one 10:53:21 there's still a free x floating around somewhere 10:53:35 I don't know much linear logic. :-( 10:53:43 the original type system, it's a little unclear whether it's a linear logic or not 10:53:46 You're using it twice 10:53:52 but it does require the number of lambdas to match the number of variables 10:54:01 ((λx.(f(x))) (x)) would use it once 10:54:01 But I don't like any interpretation that would just refer to two different xs. 10:54:08 And require a free, floating x somewhere 10:54:13 yep 10:54:31 so the problem with the traditional mathematical semantics that I'm arguing against 10:54:39 is that it doesn't actually keep track of variable names at all 10:54:45 so it can't observe that the two xs are the same 10:54:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 10:54:58 it just sees two lambdas, and two variable uses, and thinks everything is fine 10:55:08 Hang on, are you saying that we're right but unconventional, or wrong AND unconventional 10:55:34 Taneb: I don't think anyone's saying anything about "right" or "wrong". 10:55:46 Taneb: I think you're righter than the conventional definition 10:55:52 Right 10:55:55 but also that you're assuming too much sanity 10:56:03 Well, maybe some people are. 10:56:15 ais523: Clearly the solution is de Bruijn indices. 10:56:38 shachaf: the funny thing is, I think the traditional categorical semantics is actually correct for de Bruijn indices 10:56:42 but wrong for variable names 10:56:57 (cf Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download) 10:57:00 Taneb: anyway, alpha-conversion is clearly required for closed terms 10:57:08 also, I should really read that language 10:57:14 the problem with serious languages with spammy names 10:57:19 is that I note that they're not spam 10:57:28 ais523, have you seen Binary lambda calculus? 10:57:30 and then mentally disregard them 10:57:37 Taneb: yes but I can't remember how it works 10:57:55 Essentially like Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download, but with different I/O 10:58:34 (Binary lambda calculus's IO is bitwise, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is character-wise) 10:58:59 right, and it has an obfuscating syntax for no good reason 10:59:01 why did you do that? 10:59:17 It's not obfuscating! It's perfectly readable! 10:59:26 (I don't hate it as much as PH hates BF derivatives, but it does disappoint me) 10:59:50 (it was originally a functional version of BIT) 11:00:05 hmm 11:00:16 btw, I just random-paged onto Numberwang (your version) 11:00:26 Heh 11:01:04 I'm trying to work out what made you come up with that operation for determining a command 11:01:14 which I originally thought was mod 9 mod 4, but isn't because of the decimals 11:01:31 It's digital root mod 4 11:01:40 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:02:04 Basically, I wanted any terminating decimal to end up as one of the four commands 11:02:20 yeah, digital root normally means mod 9 11:02:23 but only on integers 11:02:42 it took me a moment to realise it was different on floats 11:02:54 (fun fact: all floats are terminating decimals) 11:02:55 It's defined as the sum of the digits 11:03:03 (although not vice versa) 11:03:14 Taneb: I thought it's defined as repeatedly summing the digits 11:03:15 Which is well-defined for terminating decimals 11:03:18 until you get down to just one digit 11:03:20 Yeah 11:03:44 Sorry, my thoughts skipped about 10 steps 11:04:47 ooh, I just randomed onto Radixal!!!! 11:04:51 I like these combined effort languages 11:05:03 There should be more IMO 11:05:24 yes 11:20:06 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 11:22:31 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:44:35 -!- GOMADWarrior has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:52:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 11:53:00 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 12:06:18 -!- carado has joined. 12:12:02 -!- boily has joined. 12:13:15 -!- boily has quit (Client Quit). 12:17:51 -!- boily has joined. 12:30:56 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:31:21 -!- nooodl has joined. 12:37:13 -!- surma has joined. 12:41:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:47:20 What's the best way of working out what the largest natural k is such that n mod m ^ k = 0 for some natural m and n? 12:47:48 (eg, if n = 96 and m = 2, k = 5 because 2^5 * 3 = 96) 12:52:59 > let exercise n m | mod n m /= 0 = 0 | otherwise = 1 + exercise (div n m) m in exercise 96 2 12:53:01 5 12:55:30 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:55:41 -!- c00kiemon5ter has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 12:56:54 -!- c00kiemon5ter has joined. 13:11:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:19:54 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:22:51 that's the max exponent in the factorization 13:23:16 but they may be easier way to obtain it 13:23:23 they->there 13:25:02 Thanks for not saying “they=there”. 13:32:36 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:00 -!- yiyus has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:35:58 > let they = there in there = they 13:36:00 :1:27: parse error on input `=' 13:36:08 > let they = there in there == they 13:36:10 Not in scope: `there'Not in scope: `there' 13:36:13 meh. 13:37:04 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 13:38:56 -!- GOMADWarrior has joined. 14:07:05 -!- yiyus has joined. 14:13:28 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 14:16:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 14:17:01 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:01 -!- Lymia has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:01 -!- quintopia has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- hogeyui has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- EgoBot has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:02 -!- Gregor has quit (*.net *.split). 14:17:57 -!- carado has joined. 14:19:01 -!- jix has joined. 14:19:01 -!- Lymia has joined. 14:19:01 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:19:01 -!- hogeyui has joined. 14:19:01 -!- EgoBot has joined. 14:19:01 -!- Gregor has joined. 14:40:51 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:47:06 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 14:48:29 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:49:10 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Changing host). 14:49:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 14:50:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:50:51 ...it is cheaper to fly to London than to bus there 14:51:20 s/bus/train/ 14:51:29 With a complementary meal service, no less! 14:51:30 Kind of depends on where you are I'd imagine. 14:52:06 From Newcastle 14:53:03 Leaving about half three on June the 3rd 14:53:18 Of course, with a plane, you still need to buy a tube ticket 14:53:28 Half three is one and a half 14:53:37 :P 14:53:40 Half past three 14:54:00 We actually say something like "half five" etc in Finnish and that means 4:30 14:54:02 And it's weird as hell 14:54:06 And makes no sense 14:54:23 It's not even like "half to five" but just "half five" literally 14:54:40 Especially as British English does the same but backwards 14:55:00 win 41 14:55:23 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:56:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:56:43 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 14:56:44 -!- sebbu has joined. 14:57:06 Lumpio-: that happens in German too 14:57:24 Maybe it's like roman numerals 14:57:36 Put a smaller digit before a larger one and it's subtracted 14:57:54 Could you then say "five half" for "half six"? 14:58:25 You can say "five thirty", FWIW. 14:58:44 Bah 14:59:27 Even when taking into account Metro and Tube, it is cheaper and quicker to go via plane, metro, and tube to travel from Newcastle Central Station to King's Cross 14:59:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 15:00:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 15:01:29 just think, by 2035 or so you might be able to take a high speed train 2/3 of the way 15:02:22 It'll still be slower and more expensive 15:02:29 yep 15:05:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:05:35 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:08:47 Hey, what do all y'all (that's the plural of y'all, right?) use for non-GUIfic conversion of RTF to plaintext? 15:09:49 'aptitude search' finds an 'unrtf', which has a promising name. 15:10:08 -!- boily has joined. 15:10:09 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:11:46 I doubt many of us'all use RTF in the first place 15:13:02 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 15:15:21 -!- carado has quit (Quit: Quitte). 15:17:35 shachaf, Fiora: yeah my work machine produces all sorts of strange patterns with the maze thing 15:17:57 i like it :) 15:20:25 damn, I missed a long discussion of new x86 instructions 15:20:30 sorry! 15:20:40 I posted a cool paper or two 15:20:59 though I can't remember if you're like bike with regards to subsisting on academic papers XD 15:21:29 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 15:21:35 -!- monqy has joined. 15:22:11 "Trading is halted until 2013-04-12 02:00am UTC to allow the market to cooldown following the drop in price. Read more details on the support. Additionally trading fees will not be charged within 48 hours of trading resuming (until 2013-04-14 02:00am UTC)." also kmc, oh dears 15:24:40 lolol 15:25:00 Fiora: i like to read or at least skim cool papers 15:25:16 trading halt at MtGox? 15:25:22 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 15:25:28 bitcoinity.org/markets is still showing trades 15:25:33 around $120 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:26:01 Yeah, trading halt at mtgox 15:26:12 trading halt? now? 15:26:32 I'm guessing they're trying to upgrade their systems really fast, apparently they got like 20,000 new accounts in the past day 15:26:51 gosh this is a silly bubble 15:28:20 I don't know how bitcoins work 15:28:30 But at the same time I don't really know how any currency works 15:28:55 Taneb: do you want a quick technical explanation of how bitcoins work 15:29:00 Not really 15:29:00 or do you mean more like the economics of it 15:29:02 ok 15:29:04 Right now I want a hug 15:29:07 aw 15:29:09 * kmc hugs Taneb 15:29:15 Thank you, kmc 15:29:17 not as good over IRC, i know 15:29:31 It'll do 15:29:50 I'm on the cusp of feeling really down 15:30:10 about anything in particular? 15:30:51 Not really 15:31:11 Someone being a bit nasty on Facebook, someone else not being online 15:32:29 So, actually, yes, something in particular 15:33:55 * Fiora hugs Taneb too 15:34:00 Thank you 15:36:48 * tromp_ hugs Taneb three 15:36:54 Thank you also 15:37:52 kmc: oh so like, the woman I mentioned who was doing the bit hacky stuff if you were glancing at the logs 15:38:05 bike jokingly called her a personification of IBM but he's not far off 15:38:42 she apparently has like, hundreds of patents, and invented to some degree or another three different CPU architectures 15:38:52 wow 15:39:09 she was chief architect at HP for like a decade 15:39:33 designed PA-RISC, worked on designing IA-64 too 15:40:27 i'm more impressed with the former:) 15:40:54 ( http://www.princeton.edu/~rblee/ ) 15:46:48 * ThatOtherPerson hugs Taneb, kmc, Fiora, and tromp_ simultaneously 15:46:55 we have a snowstorm beginning at 2am tonight, shifting into slushstorm at 2pm on Friday, with a slight respite around 10pm then aftermath until 9am on Saturday. 15:47:01 This is getting out of hand, Tha 15:47:06 He isn't sure why but he hopes it makes them feel happy 15:47:07 tOtherPerson 15:47:09 group hugs are great 15:47:17 ThatOtherPerson: are you impersonating some kind of octopus with all that large-scale hugging? 15:47:29 kmc, when I do them, it ends up with everyone on the floor and someone getting crushed 15:47:32 :/ 15:47:42 :/ 15:47:55 'everyone on the floor' is not necessarily bad 15:48:02 Perhaps they're too contagious around here 15:48:48 Huh, one of my British friends said that the British were not into hugs. 15:49:00 if your floors are contagious, you have a more pressing problem than worrying about crushing people. 15:50:11 ThatOtherPerson, it may be more of a rural thing, or a northern thing, or a rural people in the north thing 15:50:47 :D 15:51:55 -!- Lymia has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 15:57:48 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:59:49 ThatOtherPerson: they're not very common, although there are a few situations in which they're socially acceptable 16:00:44 Like meeting strangers in a subway? 16:02:02 So, you've heard a southerner, a northerner, and a mindlands-er 16:02:38 I liked the round tunnels of the Tube. 16:03:24 Have you seen any of the urban exploration stuff where they explore abandoned tube stations? 16:03:51 tuuuuuuuuuuuuuube 16:04:32 When they were digging tunnels for the Tyne-Wear Metro, they found an unexploded bomb from the second world war. 16:04:51 If that bomb had exploded, it would have killed my gran and great grandfather 16:04:58 Hugs are almost acceptable around here, but a little awkward. You shouldn't hug someone when they arrive. It's sometimes okay to hug someone when they leave. Only hug with one arm. Follow these three rules and you should be fine. 16:05:00 I really like subways. I don't know why. 16:05:10 ThatOtherPerson: because they're awesome 16:05:26 They are pretty awesome 16:05:49 I like anything underground :-) Caves, subways, crypts, bunkers... 16:05:50 http://ugcs.net/~arapp/timelines/europe.html 16:06:36 we have a pretty nice subway here, with all kinds of entertainment and service interruptions. 16:06:50 Taneb: If life was a video game, they'd have blown it up to make a hole to save some digging. 16:07:11 It would have made a perfectly spherical empty space. 16:07:43 -!- conehead has joined. 16:08:06 TIL there are sweet-tasting mushrooms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candy_cap 16:08:39 -!- carado has joined. 16:08:41 That is just creepy 16:10:26 going to look for Mycena corticola today 16:10:33 really tiny mushrooms that pop out of the sides of trees after it rains 16:11:08 fungi 16:11:12 eww 16:11:22 fungi are the best 16:11:40 fungot: Fungi are unnatural, right? 16:11:40 ThatOtherPerson: how's that? 16:11:41 I don't trust myself enough to pick fungi to eat 16:11:47 But I will eat mushrooms 16:11:50 * impomatic is too scared to eat fungi that I find 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 16:12:11 -!- Lymia has joined. 16:12:17 * ThatOtherPerson think fungi are an alien life form biding their time to try to conquer the planet 16:12:18 impomatic: yeah, identifying them is tricky 16:12:25 *thinks 16:12:52 you can get advice on http://www.shroomery.org/forums/postlist.php/Board/3 16:13:09 fungot: They're so creepy and different and alien 16:13:09 ThatOtherPerson: bar stuff? who knows, perhaps fnord the fnord giant? 16:13:13 ThatOtherPerson: wouldn't alien life forms still be natural (unless cloned / engineered) 16:13:34 impomatic: ... BESIDES THE POINT 16:13:36 ;D 16:14:13 kmc: I can identify a few. Unfortunately the ones which are easy to identify tend to be poisonous. 16:14:18 (That means "yes") 16:14:27 i think oyster mushrooms are pretty easy to identify 16:14:29 and are tasty 16:14:30 not sure, though 16:15:58 spore print is very useful for making an identification 16:16:02 but that takes like a day 16:16:13 mushroom ident guides are usually organized by spore color first 16:16:16 kmc: I haven't seen those around here. Mostly fly agaric, something that grow out of a tree (beefsteak?), puffballs, shaggy inkcap, and something brown that could be anything. 16:16:31 yeah, so many kinds of little brown mushrooms 16:17:14 puffballs are neat 16:17:31 Apparently we have blue stems (whatever they are) which sell for 60 per kilo. 16:18:07 "blue stem" makes me think psilocybin :) 16:18:29 in that case they might be more than £60 per kilo! 16:18:58 hm shaggy inkcap is nematophagous (oysters are too) 16:19:06 they trap and kill nematodes for their delicious nitrogen 16:19:40 For some reason, I have to connect through my VPS to access the research library server using school wireless 16:35:02 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:37:18 MUSHROOM RULES: 1) Learn to recognize poisonous mushrooms. 2) Only eat mushrooms that you recognize. 16:37:22 (Yeah, I already did that "joke" on-channel, but since it was topical...) 16:39:30 the shroomery forum has a lot of posts like "I just ate these mushrooms, what were they?" 16:39:33 i don't understand these people... 16:39:59 If you can fit something in your mouth, it's edible. 16:55:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:01:39 no fizzie 17:01:54 if you can fit something in your mouth and swallow it's edible 17:05:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 17:07:08 the part before "and" appears redundant... 17:07:17 -!- sebbu has joined. 17:07:50 leaving us with swallable (sounds more fun than swallowable) 17:08:52 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:08:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:09:00 funny hits you get if you google that... 17:09:21 You know, in addition to a rabbi, I've also pretended to be a king 17:09:32 the bony king of nowhere? 17:09:54 ...the young Edward-y king of England 17:10:32 I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 17:10:54 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:11:14 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:16:39 -!- listofoptions has joined. 17:18:03 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:21:31 -!- olsner has joined. 17:31:19 -!- ais523 has quit. 17:35:52 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 17:59:44 -!- sirdancealot has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 18:09:19 -!- Lymia has joined. 18:30:51 The writer's identify is Barbara Bob and her spouse does not like it at all. Her spouse will not like it the way she does but what she definitely likes doing is cooking and she would never give it up. Years ago she moved to Maryland. Her working day career is a meter reader. 18:34:32 -!- Tod-Autojoined has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.). 18:36:11 elliott: sounds like Wesley Willis 18:37:21 heh 18:37:34 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:38:17 http://brianmckenna.org/blog/category_theory_promisesaplus oh boy, I can't wait to find out the ways in which this has nothing at all to do with category theory 18:38:43 Putting it together, here's the monad class 18:38:48 might be all the ways 18:38:51 thanks for saying this without even mentioning what a typeclass is at all 18:38:56 really going to help your readers 18:39:24 function flatMap(p, f) { return p.then(f); 18:39:24 } 18:39:30 HOLY SHIT I CAN'T HANDLE THE CATEGORY THEORY IT'S TOO MUCH!! 18:39:40 here are some fairly simple things from Haskell but i'm going to call them "Category Theory" to show i'm hardcore! 18:39:49 also not say what a category is 18:40:04 The above will work for any monad. List of lists? Optional optional value? If the JavaScript community settled on using flatMap as a method, we could write DRY, generalised code for monads. 18:40:15 DRY is an adjective now I guess 18:40:17 good thing monads don't have return 18:40:21 kmc: it means not wet 18:40:26 "hth" 18:40:50 elliott: sounds like someone is in for a rude awakening in re: monad transformers 18:41:08 "So where exactly is the category theory in this, opposed to just providing a sane API? Does the author actually understand category theory? How does it matter that the interface has similarities to concepts in category theory? Is there any valuable proof or construction we can get out of this?" 18:41:15 you know an article is bad when the /r/programming comments are better 18:41:19 oof 18:41:24 that's rock bottom 18:41:51 "By my unscientific count there were 13 counts of monad and 8 counts of functor in that article. That seems well above the expected number given your comment, which would suggest there were no ideas from category theory in it." 18:41:52 elliott: "By my unscientific count there were 13 counts of monad and 8 counts of functor in that article. That seems well above the expected number given your comment, which would suggest there were no ideas from category theory in it." 18:41:59 at least 73.4% monad 18:42:24 i want a chrome extension that gives me the monad / functor count for every page 18:42:26 tia 18:42:49 g'mafternoon 18:43:01 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 18:43:08 'As a solo artist, Willis created more than 50 albums, each with over 20 tracks, full of bizarre, tense, and often obscene rants about crime, fast food, cultural trends, bus routes, violent confrontations with superheroes, commands for his "demons" to engage in bestiality, and praise for his favorite actors, friends (both platonic and romantic), politicians, and hip-hop and rock artists.' 18:43:15 elliott: is category new monad? 18:43:41 in b4 burrito 18:43:45 also hichaf 18:43:57 greetingan 18:44:01 greegan? 18:44:43 wfm 18:45:02 why do you hate burritos :'( 18:45:17 I'm still not quite sure what a burrito is 18:45:29 I'm imagining something like a tortilla 18:45:31 Or perhaps a monad 18:46:05 aiui it's a tortilla 18:46:28 kmc: imo next time you're looking for a burrito in mountain view you should go to the taqueria on rengstorff & old middlefield 18:46:49 ok 18:47:01 not sure if Taneb is serious 18:47:10 (the last line wasn't serious) 18:47:12 hmm, there are three taquerias on that corner 18:47:19 (I am, though, unsure exactly what a burrito is) 18:47:24 you should go to the one in the back of the little grocery store 18:47:25 Taneb: it's a burrito rolled up into a fat tube, filled with stuff like beans, rice, meat, guacamole, lettuce, etc 18:47:28 er 18:47:30 a tortilla rolled up 18:47:37 sorry 2 give non well founded definition 18:47:42 Right 18:47:44 I never had a burrito before I moved to CA. 18:47:59 I'm not sure I knew what they were. 18:48:02 kmc: that just makes burritos codata 18:48:04 Taneb: each one will have different stuff; beans and rice are pretty essential tho 18:48:14 kmc: you can always peel off the next fat tube in a finite amount of time 18:48:15 elliott: true you can 'unwap' each layer in finite time 18:48:17 yes 18:48:27 welp time to write a codata tutorial 18:48:43 In that case, I may have eaten a number of burritos today 18:48:53 (there was tortilla, chilli, and rice) 18:49:01 (the chilli contained beans?_ 18:49:02 ) 18:53:02 seems legit 18:53:08 it's a p. broad category of food 18:53:13 SF has a "sushiritto" restaurant 18:53:22 a v. SF sort of thing 18:53:36 is that sushi+burrito? 18:55:35 yep 18:55:49 it's a sushi roll in the size and shape of a burrito 18:55:55 http://www.sushirrito.com/ 18:56:16 but is it vegetarian 18:56:22 could be 18:56:34 oh i forgot to mention cheese above, most burritos have cheese 18:56:37 Hexham has a greek restaurant 18:56:37 and/or sour cream 18:56:42 Apparently it's crap 18:57:12 Taneb: imo move to california??????? 18:57:35 imo fix your healthcare and gun laws 18:58:10 :( 18:58:13 fair retort 18:58:26 MA has semi-fixed healthcare anyway 18:58:35 it's not great but it's less fucked than the rest of the USA 18:58:52 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 18:59:33 this was one of Governor Romney's big accomplishments before he ran for President and had to suddenly hate that program 19:01:13 :/ 19:02:04 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:05:14 -!- Bike has joined. 19:24:01 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:24:14 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 19:24:15 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Changing host). 19:24:15 -!- WeThePeople has joined. 19:30:24 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:32:06 -!- ousia has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 19:36:11 -!- ousia has joined. 19:42:06 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:42:09 Taneb / ThatOtherPerson: http://fioraaeterna.tumblr.com/post/37966564090/ :3 19:42:41 I'VE BEEN DOING IT ALL WRONG 19:43:31 it's never too late to learn! 19:43:34 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:44:00 well, it's probably too late if backs have already been broken. 19:44:19 There are always more backs out there to break. 19:44:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:45:14 (I am a reasonably tall chap who is keen on hugs and has a number of shorter friends, this comes up a lot) 19:45:15 yes but like you can still learn 19:45:36 :) 19:46:03 (in all fairness, I also like the "bury head in chest cling" hug too, but that probably doesn't leave much for the tall person to do) 19:46:46 (I once brought a book) 19:47:49 was it called "how to hug" 19:47:57 i think that was a dictionary hth 19:48:19 It was called Star Smashers of the Galaxy Rangers 19:48:26 It's a silly pulp sci-fi 19:48:32 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 19:49:00 what does that book have to do with hugging o_O 19:49:23 About a couple of college students who accidentally make a FTL drive powered by American artificial cheddar 19:49:36 Fiora, very little, it just happened to be the book I had on me at the time 19:50:25 -!- sirdancealo2 has quit (Excess Flood). 19:50:26 kmc: why isn't strace nice and simple 19:50:37 elliott: uh it is 19:50:48 an elegant modern strace duuuuuuuuuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 19:50:57 elliott, because it's not part of @'s core utils 19:51:20 an strace that celebrates craftsmanship 19:51:22 -!- sirdancealo2 has joined. 19:51:37 kmc, why did you just say duffffffffffff 19:51:38 kmc: all i want to know is why clicking on links in urxvt is broken 19:51:42 duffman 19:51:46 Phantom_Hoover: he didnt he said duuuuuuuuuffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff 19:51:52 hey does anyone here like akira 19:52:06 I've heard of akira 19:52:13 can't remember in which context, though 19:52:14 not good enough. 19:52:19 Is it an anime 19:52:24 yeah 19:52:31 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira 19:52:35 Any good? 19:52:38 yeah 19:52:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira -- insecure link for people who aren't shachaf 19:53:22 only insecure people click on insecure links 19:53:35 Bike, the film? 19:54:11 yes. 19:54:14 http://sprunge.us/FWaP ok so this is the problem 19:54:17 though the comic's great too, if longer 19:54:24 Might give it a shot 19:54:26 yet i have 19:54:26 URxvt.urlLauncher: chromium 19:54:28 it's four thousand pages or some crap 19:54:28 so what gives??? 19:54:36 https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Akira # MAXIMALLY SECURE LINK 19:55:03 oh. 19:55:06 ti was changed to url-launcher 19:55:17 "sensible-editor, sensible-pager and sensible-browser make sensible decisions on which editor, pager, and web browser to call, respectively." 19:55:22 Yeah, I remember the movie was kind of confusing just because of how much it was compressed from the manga 19:55:27 (what the hell is a pager) 19:55:30 it was pretty though 19:55:33 (are we talking like those beepy things) 19:55:36 omg 19:55:37 links work again 19:55:37 -!- WeThePeople has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:55:43 it's a miracle! 19:55:47 i've gone 19:55:48 Bike: I think it's a thing people put in their pocket protector 19:55:50 literally months with broken links 19:55:52 now you can click all the secure akira information you want 19:55:53 Bike: a pager is more or less 19:55:57 Oh. 19:56:09 Fiora: not convinced pocket protectors exist tbh 19:56:18 Bike you weren't there fort hat time i went like three to four months without number keys 19:56:38 remember those months i went without → and End keys 19:56:42 lol. 19:56:45 oh wait those months are still going on 19:56:45 help 19:57:36 the joke is that my keyboard is broken and it's Bike's fault 19:57:59 Good joke, imo. 19:58:57 Bike: I think they have like, the same mythical status as slide rules? 19:59:14 hey now 19:59:16 hey i have a slide rule 19:59:19 i've used a slide rule 19:59:21 i've actually used a slide rule 20:00:08 wow :o 20:00:09 I rule at sliding 20:00:10 the stuff of legends! 20:00:14 they're actually pretty easy to use 20:00:35 Battery 0: Charging, 75%, 1484:00:00 until charged 20:00:51 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Conflict:_Palestine 20:01:05 "Global Conflicts: Palestine is a serious game. It was developed by Serious Games Interactive" 20:01:07 sounds serious 20:01:16 Jerusalem facing challenges. 20:01:44 "Conflict: Middle East Political Simulator" well i guess that about sums it up 20:02:05 "Conflict: Middle East Political Simulator, often known as ConfMEPS" 20:02:25 "One of the main ways to lose the game is for WMDs to be used, which often sets off a global nuclear holocaust. This can present a problem to players," 20:02:50 sounds like DEFCON 20:02:57 DEFCON is a fun game 20:03:14 * kmc has also used a slide rule 20:03:22 just for addition and multiplication though 20:03:27 addition is kind of obvious 20:03:27 gosh DEFCON was fun 20:03:31 and multiplication is log addition :) 20:03:35 golly gosh 20:03:39 " Generally, it is best to destabilize Iran into collapsing, since this permits Iraq to threaten some of the countries which share a border with Israel." yes. nailed it. 20:03:40 i would love DEFCON if i could be good at it 20:03:57 i was good enough to beat the computer reliably, because the computer is dumb 20:04:00 but i never played much online 20:04:08 I can imagine it being so much fun to play with friends 20:04:16 online it's just gruesome 20:04:21 "Lebanon, which borders Israel and Syria, is highly unstable and will collapse on its own accord if another country does not invade it first; in fact, Lebanon will collapse by itself even if the player is always trying to disrupt the insurgency and support the Government. " this is seriously darkly amusing 20:04:33 we had a party that included a video of DEFCON gameplay on a huge projection screen 20:04:36 you have to, like, micromanage every single one of your bombers, and split your entire fleet into 2-ship units 20:04:38 cold war themed party 20:04:56 that sounds pretty sad kmc 20:05:05 did you play cold war songs 20:05:05 I was crap at DEFCON 20:05:13 Napalm Sticks to Kids~ 20:05:16 I don't know how bad I was but it was fun 20:05:22 (that's the only cold war song i know) 20:05:23 Does Coldplay make cold war music? 20:05:24 actually that was the party where the hazmat crew got called the next day 20:05:32 Bike: they could organize the party by decades. so like, in the first hour, every 10 minutes they have to vote someone out as a communist 20:05:34 "Coldplay: The cherry on top of a shit sundae." 20:05:53 i definitely wasn't good but i was competent at not being obviously bad 20:06:10 Fiora: and then they all get high as hell and forget the theme? 20:06:16 About a couple of college students who accidentally make a FTL drive powered by American artificial cheddar <-- overarching premise: "this stuff has to be good for _something_"? 20:06:20 then in the next decade they have to vote who is the bourgeois and shame them in front of everyone 20:06:26 -!- kallisti has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:06:29 There are a few typos in the game which can be distracting to the player, such as the announcement that a given country has been overrun by another country's "hoards" (its bank accounts?), rather than using the correct term, "hordes". 20:06:44 and decide on Four Olds from around the room to destroy 20:06:49 haha 20:06:51 okay this is silly 20:07:17 oerjan, they put it in a particle collider for a joke, and then the next-door neighbour's cat ends up in Toronto or something 20:07:21 later i show up in a ghillie suit and murder all the christians for being too leftist 20:07:31 c.c 20:08:28 or just stand outside the party training assassins 20:08:53 i wonder how introversion's doing these days 20:10:11 oerjan, then the two college students, their girlfriend (they share one), and a KGB spy end up on a 747 in space or something 20:10:15 And save a few worlds 20:18:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:22:38 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:22:40 i am not sure 747's are considered space-worthy? 20:23:10 just strap a rocket to the end 20:23:11 maybe it's like Space Battleship Yamato? 20:23:26 hell, strap some to where the normal engines are 20:24:10 oerjan, it was very silly 20:24:53 Phantom_Hoover, I think they just put a small particle collider and some cheese in it 20:26:14 wtf google is constantly crashing 20:26:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 20:27:01 Taneb, wouldn't that basically be an ion drive 20:27:05 with cheese ions 20:27:07 only the main page though 20:27:17 * ion drive 20:27:27 Phantom_Hoover, I think it was more a magic drive 20:27:39 oh 20:28:02 btw can we all just spend a minute admiring http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_salt-water_rocket 20:28:09 It was not at all hard sci-fi 20:29:29 Phantom_Hoover: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fission_fragment_rocket this is my favorite nuclear rocket design 20:29:39 no fiora 20:29:40 i'm sorry 20:29:52 it's just not crazy enough 20:29:54 it can get exhaust velocity up to a significant fraction of c 20:29:57 it's so cool 20:30:01 https://www.lp.org/make-a-bitcoin-contribution 20:30:03 so can the nswr 20:30:06 libertarian party now accepting bitcoin donations 20:30:16 By checking this box I acknowledge that contributions from corporations and foreign nationals are prohibited (Permanent legal residents of the U.S., i.e., "green card" holders, are not considered foreign nationals). I also acknowledge that this contribution is made from my own personal funds and not funds from a corporate or business entity. 20:30:25 if you use highly-enriched fuel 20:30:30 something tells me this isn't legally sound 20:30:31 oh wow O_O that one has crazy good specific impulse too 20:30:39 elliott, you're not a US citizen. 20:30:44 Hate to break it 2 u 20:30:48 also 20:30:53 i like how the donation amount starts at $5k 20:30:57 LIBERTARIANS 20:31:08 Fiora, it's basically project orion with one long, continuous explosion 20:31:13 That's amazing 20:31:14 elliott: That's actually a legal requirement on campaign donations. 20:31:38 elliott: Basically, without having a weirdo legal status you can't accept from corporations, and you can't accept from non-citizens. 20:31:49 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:32:03 kmc: http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2013/04/11/as-big-investors-emerge-bitcoin-gets-ready-for-its-close-up/ oh my gosh it's the winklevoss twins 20:32:06 they're back 20:32:30 I rarely use any compression with DVI other than the built-in movement commands compression, although other can be used if necessary such as gz and so on 20:32:30 zzo38: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them. 20:32:34 ?messages 20:32:34 kmc asked 2d 43m 57s ago: What kind of compression (if any) do you use on .dvi files? 20:32:34 Bike said 1d 20h 22m 8s ago: friend of mine doesn't think TwoDucks can solve the halting problem (for UTMs) and would be interested in talking it over with you. 20:32:36 best return since cliff lawton's 20:32:42 pikhq_: yes but... 20:32:44 it's bitcoins 20:32:59 pretty trivial to just donate money to them and put in a fake address 20:33:16 "winklevoss"?? 20:33:32 the guys who sued facebook for stealing their idea 20:33:56 haha 20:34:05 the identical twins from the fairy tale 20:34:08 pretty sure they can't actually be real 20:34:10 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:34:13 the bad guys from that facebook film 20:34:28 «Olympic rowers. Nemeses of Mark Zuckerberg. Characters on “The Simpsons.” Now they can add a new label: bitcoin moguls.» this is pretty great 20:34:46 I'm at least 0 of those things 20:34:48 «The Winklevii — as they are popularly known —» 20:35:10 hey dutch tulips 20:35:15 i should actually read that book sometime 20:35:20 "They have parlayed that fortune into Winklevoss Capital. Their first two investments were in Hukkster, a start-up shopping Web site and SumZero, an online community for professional money managers." 20:35:24 winklevopodes 20:35:36 guys 20:35:39 wrong bubble 20:35:42 Phantom_Hoover: does anyone invest in anything that isn't a website any more 20:35:46 Hmm 20:35:53 things that aren't websites? what 20:35:54 "Winklevoss" 20:36:05 That sounds like my dad's mum's maiden name 20:36:10 "Wolswinkel" 20:36:11 Bike: i know it's hard to believe they exist 20:36:27 I invested in an oil company 20:36:36 It hasn't yet gone bankrupt 20:37:31 Taneb 20:37:33 you are the worst 20:37:53 Yes 20:37:55 Yes I am 20:37:57 time for a relevant quote: 20:37:59 ~fortune 20:37:59 I used to think that the brain was the most wonderful organ in 20:37:59 my body. Then I realized who was telling me this. 20:37:59 -- Emo Phillips 20:38:31 ha, ha, cartesian dualism 20:40:18 "Oh, so that's why the value is crashing... people just wanted to get out once they saw the Winkelvii getting in." *pff* 20:42:47 -!- TodPunk has joined. 20:44:16 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 20:47:10 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 20:51:58 Oh, I can just popcnt %eax, %eax? 20:52:53 now i'm wondering if there's assembly that resembles brekekex koax koax 20:55:07 `? maybe 20:55:12 maybe? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:55:21 `learn Maybe a is Just a or Nothing 20:55:29 I knew that. 20:56:09 shachaf: Just (x::a) 20:56:17 Just Int isn't :: Maybe Int 20:56:36 elliott: Go fight with the "data" syntax people. 20:57:57 :t Just 5 :: Maybe Int 20:57:59 Maybe Int 20:58:42 * oerjan laughs at today's darths & droids 21:01:18 :t return 5 `asTypeOf` Just undefined 21:01:20 Num a => Maybe a 21:01:39 oerjan: do you know about ways to encode codata using inductive types 21:02:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 21:02:25 * Phantom_Hoover dips into r/bitcoin, notes that they are arguing with someone pointing out that bitcoins are never going to hit $100,000 21:02:47 XD 21:02:56 elliott: wrapping things dually in functions, i assume... 21:03:17 wait, you said "know". i guess not. 21:03:28 well I am pretty sure there are multiple viable ways but Idon't know the details 21:03:37 I assume someone has written a paper about it but I can't find one 21:03:43 oerjan: amazingly I don't think x86 actually has anything starting with K 21:04:12 Fiora: the k is not important here, i was inspired by %eax after all 21:04:12 or G, Q, Y, or Z. 21:05:25 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 21:05:33 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:06:04 Phantom_Hoover: link 21:06:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1c51ck/i_think_this_subreddit_should_seriously_consider/c9d3ket 21:06:25 elliott: i would expect codata to be somehow representable as something a function that takes an inductive data type argument describing how to decompose it to a finite level 21:06:31 *-something 21:06:46 sort of dual to a fold 21:08:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:08:27 well... I am a bit unsure because when you have dependent types, it's no longer sufficient to describe data types as their fold 21:08:38 oh dear 21:09:09 i do not usually think of dependent types, i was imagining something system F like here 21:10:37 mm 21:18:07 -!- augur has joined. 21:22:09 Dog attacks TV for baseball http://youtu.be/L7QFFZJWAX8 21:25:35 Phantom_Hoover: ... 21:26:09 this is quite a thread PH 21:26:21 ion: ha, nice catch 21:26:29 Estimate those probabilities, multiply them by each other. Is your answer zero? Nope, didn't think so. 21:27:10 wow are there gold standard people here i'm seeing 21:27:12 "Why would anyone record themselves playing triple play? Definitely planned... Therefore its NOT A NICE SAVE" 21:27:22 woah, youtube commenter, you are really blowing the lid off this conspiracy 21:27:27 do the zapruder film next 21:27:43 "400 years ago Canada was a bunch of stupid trees. Now we re worth almost 1.8 trillion. Give that amount of time, and maybe." wow it's bullshit /and/ racist 21:27:52 what 21:28:12 bitcoins are just like canada kmc 21:28:29 "I think a better analogy is that Microsoft was started in a garage, and Facebook was started by random college kids in their dorm room. Oh and don't forget Apple who nearly died that one time.""Yeah, and none of those companies is anywhere close to being worth two trillion dollars." "neither of those companies is a currency." 21:29:03 Bike: well canada is still a bunch of stupid trees. 21:29:21 Just because a lot of people bought in early and get rich, that doesn't mean that they don't deserve to get RICHER. I feel like there is so much greed around Bitcoin now that it's going to fail just over the asshats that won't recognize the value. 21:30:03 why would you even want a BTC to be worth $10000, that's not how you measure the strength of a currency 21:30:22 you're winning if the numbers go up 21:30:24 it's like mario 21:30:26 well people don't care about the strength of BTC so much as making a lot of money off the BTC they have 21:30:33 even if they pretend otherwise 21:30:49 there was an article in the observer making that point 21:31:05 well if the observer said it 21:31:06 bitcoin is doomed to fail because it encourages speculators and hoarding, apparently 21:31:21 sort of like other currencies you mean 21:31:22 if it's doomed to fail it's because the people using it are dipshits 21:31:24 yeah, deflation is built into the protocol 21:31:26 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:31:36 elliott, what kmc said 21:31:46 yes i do know how bitcoin works :P 21:31:53 it's kind of brilliant, though, isn't it? the creator of bitcoin was able to gather a vast army of supporters to push it just through greed 21:31:55 if i have 200 in a sock it's just going to become worthless over time 21:32:00 because all the early adopters will have a ton to gain 21:32:09 something about bitcoin being a microcosm of capitalism, not a conspiracy 21:32:17 if you have 200,000 JPY in a sock then it almost doesn't become worthless except that your country's economy slowly melts 21:32:37 elliott: the invisible hand is flipping us all off 21:36:48 -!- monqy has joined. 21:38:34 hello monqy 21:39:28 hi 21:42:32 huh mtgox is tokyo-based? 21:42:44 i was imagining it as being, like 21:42:49 on top of an actual mountain 21:42:52 haha 21:42:54 somewhere in the rockies 21:43:01 on top of an actual Magic: the 21:43:15 possibly in a libertarian conclave of some kind 21:43:25 the 21:43:31 oh 21:43:33 i missed kmc's joke 21:43:36 womp womp 21:43:48 also doesn't tokyo have mountains 21:43:51 did Phantom_Hoover miss kmc's joke 21:44:20 monqy: why is your username 'help' 21:44:26 i don't think they have the letter x in japan 21:44:30 or... "~help" 21:44:35 freenode adds the ~ 21:45:02 noidentd: if only 21:45:14 monqy: secret i actually use oidentd 21:45:18 bc its in the debian repos 21:45:35 monqy: remember when your username was swell; those were some good times 21:45:41 (it made me think your real name was swell) 21:45:45 (like you were thomas swell or something) 21:45:58 was i in here back when it was 'chap'? 21:46:05 hmmmmmmmmmmm maybe 21:46:07 i dont remember that though 21:46:49 -!- ion has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:47:30 it may have been 'ciao' too at one point but im less sure about that 21:48:11 also http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/04/zerocoin-making-bitcoin-anonymous.html is neat 21:48:43 > 523/12 21:48:45 43.583333333333336 21:49:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 21:49:59 * Phantom_Hoover realises that it's actually kind of mad that there's a $20 spread in prices from the 4 non-mtgox exchanges on bitcoinity 21:50:19 kmc: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=173227.0 21:51:17 yikes 21:52:12 Yeah, the single biggest failure of BTC is that it's inherently deflationary... 21:52:19 Meaning that long-term it's simply not viable. 21:53:41 But hey, people also support the gold standard. 21:53:48 so as t→∞ everyone is just hoarding coins and not spending them... but is there some way to incentivize against that 21:53:50 Which has the same problem really. 21:53:52 other than modifying the protocol 21:54:07 pikhq_: and a lot of the same people supporm both... 21:54:11 Yup. 21:54:21 'consider linux or os x' 21:54:36 what, exactly, was the problem with not making it deflationary 21:55:02 If you really truly think Bitcoin is going to last long-term, it's in your best interest to just grab some and sit on it. 21:55:07 And, like, retire on it. 21:55:23 but if everyone does that and liquidity dries up 21:55:29 Then it fails. :) 21:55:30 then how do you actually spend your bitcoins on important goods 21:55:50 Yay, liquidity crises. 21:55:56 I think maybe that's part of the reason why it's so volatile? or at least part of it, since, like, the number of bitcoins actually trading seems to be a tiny fraction of the total 21:56:14 i think the deflationary thing is sufficiently far off that it's not influencing behaivor now 21:56:17 but i could be wrong 21:56:31 not the deflationary bit but rather just "people are sitting on it" 21:56:36 kmc: It's actually been deflationary since day one. 21:56:36 why did it have to be deflationary! i assume there was some reason for it 21:56:41 pikhq_: yeah, i know 21:56:48 As more bitcoins are mined, mining gets harder. 21:56:59 i just think people aren't thinking long term yet 21:57:00 I suspect people aren't *acting* on this, but nevertheless. 21:57:06 maybe it's easier to convince people of the value of something if you can guarantee it will be in limited supply (?) 21:57:07 that the market is mostly driven by short term bubbly speculation 21:57:17 Fiora: yeah 21:57:27 deflation gives you a currency which is worth a lot of dollars which looks good in a way 21:57:31 it definitely did a good job at recruiting the libertarians -_- 21:57:33 but it hurts your economy 21:58:15 people keep telling me that the Right Thing is nominal GDP growth targets 21:58:25 I remember hearing that 'satoshi' had mined, like, 500k bitcoins or something 21:58:28 i don't really know 21:58:30 I wonder where those are now... 21:59:27 it's so weird that bitcoin was invented by some anonymous japanese person 21:59:32 it makes the whole thing like 200% more cyberpunk 21:59:40 I'm not even sure people are certain it was one person 21:59:55 also how did i only now notice that 'bitcoin' is one letter off from 'bitchin' 22:00:39 (bitcoin is actually a stand alone complex!) 22:00:44 finally a way to trade virtual chins anonymously 22:00:56 i am going to saw off my own chin and trade it in asap 22:01:47 kmc: i don't think there's any reason to believe it was actually invented by a japanese person 22:02:30 some kind of..... weeaboo cypherpunk 22:02:34 like it might just be oen of the later developers using another name for the initial development 22:02:39 for i don't know 22:02:41 mystique? 22:02:44 it's kind of weird 22:02:48 if you want a japanese thing there's Perfect Dark 22:03:02 version 1.02 was called "standalone complex" 22:03:07 but i'm sure the fact that the inventor is unknown appeals to the kind of ancap anonymity type impulse 22:03:08 maximum cyberpunk go 22:03:10 I think I remember reading that the first few 100k bitcoins still haven't been sent anywhere... 22:03:20 the nazi gold of reddit 22:03:22 so that paper Bike or whoever linked 22:03:26 so like, whoever invented it is a multi-millionaire 22:03:27 does anyone know what that november 2010 transaction actually was 22:03:32 was it pizza 22:03:36 i'm telling you man it's the pizas 22:03:47 bitcoin, founded upon pizza 22:04:01 (though, it'd be wonderfully schadenfreudetastic if it turned out satoshi lost hir wallet) 22:06:25 Bike: hahaha 22:06:32 the nazi gold of reddit 22:11:49 if bitcoin does survive, you know that people in 20 years will be looking through every discarded laptop for hidden treasure 22:13:12 treasure island w/ bitcoins? 22:14:10 i should get a bunch of blank CDs and write "BITCOINS" on them and hide them in various locations 22:14:25 maybe put like, 0.000001 of a bitcoin on each one? 22:14:43 or 0.000000 22:14:47 who stores things on cds these days 22:14:50 :) 22:14:50 xor with a nonce. :) 22:15:14 i don't think you can fit a paedophile on a disc pikhq 22:15:17 pikhq_: nah it should have enough apparent structure that people will go mad trying to decrypt it 22:15:23 paedocoins 22:15:42 oh gosh, this reminds me of um... Molyneux's cube thing 22:15:52 I'm imagining that, except like, with a promise of a bitcoin wallet in the center 22:15:53 curiosity 22:15:55 CURIOSITY 22:15:58 WHAT'S INSIDE THE CUBE 22:16:02 thx 22:16:03 and a swarm of redditors trying to get to the center of the cube 22:16:09 i honestly thought curiosity was a molydeux thing first 22:16:17 because i first heard of it from molydeux tweets referencing it 22:16:19 and i laughed 22:16:21 wasn't it what inspired molydeux 22:16:23 me too. he's practically self-parody XD 22:16:25 no it's reverse 22:16:32 is it bad when i heard of it i thought it sounded kind of cool 22:16:34 molyneux saw molydeux and was inspired to go and quit his job 22:16:37 and make curiosity 22:16:39 http://i0.wp.com/buttcoin.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/mtgoxmagiccard.jpg?resize=223%2C310 22:16:40 seriously 22:16:52 art imitates life imitates art 22:17:06 have they figured out curiosity yet 22:17:11 so is it true that mt gox is a repurposed mtg site 22:17:34 yes 22:17:38 sweet 22:17:48 magic the gathering online xchange 22:18:12 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt.Gox 22:18:20 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:19:44 oh hey they stopped trading yesterday 22:21:46 -!- carado_ has joined. 22:22:01 -!- carado_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:23:06 Are there any real-world codebases that use STM? 22:26:12 -!- ion has joined. 22:26:49 nope, they're all in fake worlds 22:27:44 I mean, code that actually serves a purpose that's not demonstrating STMs 22:28:29 apparently the founder of mtgox also made edonkey 22:28:49 oh what 22:28:53 and is also the guy who made Ripple 22:29:55 `addquote I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 22:30:00 1020) I've also pretended to be Queen Elizabeth the first, but that was a desperate plea for attention 22:30:19 ripple? 22:30:26 ripple 22:30:46 oh 22:31:31 -!- monqy has quit (Quit: hello). 22:31:57 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ripple_monetary_system 22:32:00 it was cool before bitcoin! 22:32:10 and is also more interesting 22:32:54 oh wow i've actually heard of htis 22:33:11 "This structure means that it is simple to route payments to and from any participants, but is inherently full of single points of failure, which may also be characterized as single points of control." 22:38:37 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:39:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:47:26 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:49:30 -!- Bike_ has joined. 22:50:12 kmc: what pdf reader do you use 22:50:27 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 22:51:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:55:43 -!- augur has joined. 22:58:54 are u gonna write sploit 22:59:11 evince mainly, sometimes xpdf, sometimes okular 22:59:14 sometimes google preview thingy 23:03:15 I start with pdf.js because my browser renders PDF files using it internally, then find that it’s frustratingly slow and/or renders the file horribly and click the button to open it in evince. 23:03:41 kmc: wow xpdf really 23:04:06 I like xpdf’s magnifier tool. 23:04:12 ion: hm, what browser? 23:04:15 elliott: Firefox 23:04:29 huh. 23:05:40 xpdf works even when evince is broken due to gnome bullshit 23:05:48 also consumes less ram or something 23:06:02 I don’t remember evince being broken ever. But sure, xpdf uses less resources. 23:06:10 Mozilla doesn't want Adobe to cash in on the lucrative user frustration market 23:06:20 next: swf.js 23:06:51 Well, SWF already uses JS for scripting. :-P 23:07:18 I'm fond of mupdf personally. 23:08:18 the firefox reader has been kind of frustrating for me, it works some of the time but on some files the table of contents window just doesn't work, like, I can't click on an entry to jump to it 23:08:22 which is really painful for 1500-page pdfs 23:08:39 Yeah, pdf.js seems rather silly. 23:08:49 i avoid reading 1500 page pdfs 23:08:55 PDF readers have issues being slow *without* running on a rather strange VM. 23:09:00 maintains my inner balance 23:09:13 I don't have much choice if I need to read intel manuals :< 23:09:26 ah, you have found another way in which i maintain my inner balance. 23:09:36 mupdf is pretty nice though. UI's kinda meh, but it's freaking awesome at rendering efficiently. 23:09:46 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 23:10:12 i use evince 23:10:17 i kind of want some kind of pdf manager 23:10:25 so i don't have to keep remembering what 58324.pdf is or whatever 23:10:26 mendeley? 23:10:32 i could give them proper names 23:10:34 but that's work 23:10:40 i give them proper names every few weeks 23:10:56 elliott: I use Calibre. 23:10:56 when I notice Downloads/48191_1891final.pdf\ (3) and decide enough is enough 23:10:56 mendeley was recently acquired by satan or something 23:11:04 Bike: is this some kind of web based thing 23:11:15 elliott: no Downloads is my folder for downloads. 23:11:20 kmc: elsevier? 23:11:24 no i mean 23:11:24 yeah them 23:11:25 mendeley 23:11:34 Oh. Uh, maybe? 23:11:40 this looks sort of like something i have no hope of using on linux 23:11:43 I also use Calibre to convert and send files to my Kindle. But i used it just to maintain a library of various ebooks, papers etc. before i had a Kindle. 23:11:56 elliott: I'm pretty sure enough academics use it for them to support it... 23:12:00 oh it has a linux version hmm 23:12:25 Well, now that it's Elsevier i'll need a goat to sacrifice to soil myself enough to use it, though 23:12:27 i would prefer something open source because i am a dweeb, but it certainly looks featureful 23:12:36 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_reference_management_software ah wikipedia 23:12:38 It’s open-source. 23:12:42 is it 23:12:47 i mean mendeley 23:12:48 not calibre 23:12:51 oh 23:12:59 calibre... might work for my needs 23:13:02 but there was that one security bug report 23:13:08 that makes it impossible for me to take the developer seriously 23:13:25 oh? 23:13:34 What bug report was that? 23:13:48 https://bugs.launchpad.net/calibre/+bug/885027 23:14:01 it's no longer relevant and didn't matter to anyone who used major distro packages for it, but 23:14:05 oh man that 23:14:08 the dev's attitude is really awful and eyeroll-y 23:14:13 so i am biased against the program now 23:14:40 "I dont see how 1-3 are security vulnerabilities." wow i forgot how terrible this was 23:14:41 Hah, awesome 23:15:11 Fix committed for the latest exploit. Feel free to re-open if you find another 23:15:11 exploit based on 4. 23:15:11 status fixreleased 23:15:14 exploit PoC 2.1 Edit (2.9 KiB, text/x-sh) 23:15:14 Updated the exploit. 23:15:16 Ah, realpath() 23:15:16 status fixreleased 23:15:23 "4 is a vulnerability only if 23:15:26 mount itself is vulnerable to command line injection." hahaha 23:15:30 i'm sure if you keep patching it over it'll be fine! 23:15:36 god i totally forgot about this it's amazing 23:17:10 how is that elsevier boycott going 23:18:19 well that one legislative thing got defeated a billion years ago so fine as far as i'm concerned 23:19:13 wooow. that bug report thread. 23:19:27 "Until this comment, I was on the side of fixing with the exploits. Now, as far as I am concerned you should go play frisbee on a freeway." 23:19:31 gosh, that guy is almost reminiscent of drepper. 23:19:39 things get heated in the high-stakes world of launchpad 23:19:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:20:31 hell is trying to find the superscript for a footnote you missed 23:20:46 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/9985757/Iranian-scientist-claims-to-have-invented-time-machine.html anyway 23:20:54 WHAT ARE YOU COMMENTING ON REVEAL YOUR SECRETS TO ME 23:21:40 Bike: lol 23:22:34 -!- hagb4rd has joined. 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 23:22:47 -!- Lymia has joined. 23:23:29 Razeghi said his latest project has been criticised by friends and relatives for "trying to play God" with ordinary lives and history. 23:24:33 * ion laughed at “Ah, realpath(). status fixreleased” 23:26:22 `slist 23:26:23 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 23:27:43 Oh, so it is safe for me to use Calibre on Linux? 23:27:51 I may have been avoiding it somewhat 23:28:17 probably nobody's going to exploit it, the dev is just kind of a fool i guess 23:28:30 the dev gave in eventually 23:28:39 of course that's only the one bug we know about 23:28:57 Well it's the only binary that's suid, isn't it? 23:29:12 Apparently Fedora and probably other distros just remove that binary anyway. 23:30:19 you can have bad exploits without root 23:30:27 like your browser doesn't run as root either 23:33:24 elliott: sure an attacker can get my gmail password and all of my other passwords and basically take over my life and all my money, but that's no use if they can't send raw IP packets or set the system clock 23:33:39 damn straight 23:37:43 Oh man, another Calibre developer, Charles Haley (cbhaley), decided to join the discussion with a constructive message. 23:42:48 kmc: i should chown more things root 23:43:25 yes 23:43:30 alias yolo=sudo 23:45:07 is there a decent email client yet 23:45:13 like can i stop using gmail 23:47:25 -!- Jafet has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 23:49:18 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:50:29 -!- doesthiswork has left. 23:50:37 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 23:53:40 -!- zzo38 has joined. 23:57:00 “Every time I was convinced of the existence of an actual exploit, I have attempted to fix it. Maybe my fixes were naive, but dont forget that it's a lot easier to find holes in something, than to build somethig without holes in the first place.”