←2013-05-23 2013-05-24 2013-05-25→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:03:35 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_).
00:32:54 <shachaf> did you know "awry" is pronounced like "a-wry" and not like "awe-ri"...........................
00:33:02 <shachaf> that makes it the worst word of all words
00:33:24 <Phantom_Hoover> really
00:33:27 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought it was awe-ri
00:33:47 <Phantom_Hoover> same way everyone says eesoteric rather than essoteric
00:33:58 <elliott> Phantom_Hoover: uh I say essoteric
00:34:09 <Bike> fuck you i don't do what you tell me *guitar*
00:34:21 <shachaf> i say ezoteric
00:34:30 <shachaf> are you telling me it's not pronounced 'z'......
00:34:43 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, but is it a gittar or a geetar
00:36:00 <shachaf> Bike: where did you get the guitar from
00:36:09 <shachaf> have you considered a mandolin instead
00:36:12 <shachaf> "better than guitars"
00:36:29 <ion> The h in hesoteric is silent.
00:36:35 <shachaf> whoa dude Bike is twitterizing now
00:36:45 <shachaf> Bike: you should follow me hth
00:36:51 <Bike> the stalk thing's getting weird you know
00:36:59 <Bike> well "getting"
00:37:07 <shachaf> https://twitter.com/Bike
00:37:11 <shachaf> um
00:37:22 <shachaf> that person is beating me by an order of magnitude :'(
00:37:23 <Bike> @bike
00:37:24 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: bid dice time wiki
00:37:28 <Bike> yes
00:37:35 <kmc> who is bike on twitter
00:37:54 -!- augur has joined.
00:38:00 <shachaf> you'll surely find out by watching my "following" list
00:38:33 <shachaf> Oh, Bike is already following kmc.
00:38:48 <Bike> twitter says you're not following anybody.
00:39:00 <shachaf> Twitter is wrong.
00:39:10 <Bike> D:
00:39:25 <Bike> i mean, assuming you're @shachaf
00:39:25 <kmc> nope but I found Nathan von Doom
00:39:41 <Bike> good name
00:39:48 <Bike> i'm @mnxmnkmnd, mostly been complaining about darwin
00:39:50 <Bike> so far
00:39:55 <shachaf> i look at twitter.com/copumpkin almost every day!!
00:40:06 <shachaf> copumpkin is just that good hth
00:41:08 <shachaf> Bike: darwin more like darlose isntthatso
00:41:20 <Bike> yes
00:43:09 <shachaf> kmc: what does tqbf mean
00:43:35 <ion> godWIN the discussion
00:43:51 <kmc> don't know
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00:44:06 <shachaf> is it an abbreviation for tqbfjotld
00:44:30 <kmc> @tqbf is one of the Matasano founders
00:44:30 <lambdabot> Done.
00:44:41 <Bike> wat
00:44:47 <kmc> fuck I thought I put a ZWNJ at the start of that message
00:44:50 <kmc> lambdabot: eff you
00:44:51 <Phantom_Hoover> i think i've had maybe 3 twitter accounts
00:44:54 <kmc> maybe mosh ate it or something
00:44:55 <Phantom_Hoover> and about that many tweets
00:45:09 <elliott> @tqbf
00:45:10 <lambdabot> Done.
00:45:14 <elliott> thank god
00:45:44 <shachaf> @help
00:45:44 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
00:46:02 <Bike> @help tqbf
00:46:03 <lambdabot> help <command>. Ask for help for <command>. Try 'list' for all commands
00:46:08 <Bike> thanks
00:46:12 <shachaf> Yes, but I meant where his nick came from.
00:46:17 <shachaf> Who knows.
00:46:28 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:46:45 <shachaf> lambdabot: ?
00:46:46 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add
00:46:46 <lambdabot> djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune
00:46:46 <lambdabot> fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma
00:46:46 <lambdabot> karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline
00:46:46 <lambdabot> oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc
00:46:48 <lambdabot> read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc
00:46:50 <lambdabot> topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow
00:48:54 -!- augur has joined.
00:53:36 <shachaf> When people say "the password is hashed N000000 times" without clarifying I like to pretend they mean "for (i : Range(1, N000000)) { res = hash(password); }"
00:54:08 <pikhq> :D
00:54:27 <pikhq> Clearly hash :: IO Hash
00:54:52 <shachaf> That was pseudo-C++, not pseudo-Haskell.
00:55:18 <coppro> obviously, it's not syntactically valid haskell
00:56:32 <shachaf> It's syntactically valid C++ but probably not good C++.
00:56:38 <shachaf> How would you do the Range thing in C++11?
00:56:57 <shachaf> I guess for (const auto &i : Range<int>(1, ...)) { ... }
00:57:01 <shachaf> Or something like that.
00:57:23 <coppro> something like that, yeah
00:57:41 <kmc> do you need the type paramater? sometimes they can be inferred
00:58:07 <elliott> is it actually syntactically valid C++
00:58:11 <elliott> "(i :" looks dubious
00:58:18 <shachaf> C++11
00:58:27 <shachaf> Maybe you don't need it.
00:58:36 <shachaf> Maybe if you specify the type on the left side.
00:58:49 <Bike> don't we all know what you meant anyway
00:59:08 <pikhq> shachaf: Surely if you omit the type on the left it infers int?
00:59:55 <coppro> you don't need const or & there
01:00:12 <shachaf> But I want it!
01:00:22 <shachaf> Not that it matters much.
01:00:28 <coppro> for (auto i : Range<int>(1, ...)) { }
01:00:46 <shachaf> But i is const. :-(
01:00:53 <coppro> who cares
01:03:53 -!- TodPunk has quit (Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something.).
01:04:55 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beginning_Was_the_End
01:08:12 <Sgeo_> 'The book was influential on new wave band Devo, with the founding members noting the connection between its subject matter and the concept of "de-evolution" which is central to the band's message. Bassist/synth player/vocalist Gerald V. Casale claimed, "It's a better story than the Bible as far as DEVO's concerned."[20]'
01:08:39 <Sgeo_> ...does DEVO actually... believe it, or just consider it a fascinating fiction story?
01:09:09 <shachaf> elliott: You should go to Haskell eXchange 2013!
01:09:38 <elliott> i don't even know where that is
01:10:06 <Sgeo_> I may have confused DEVO with ... that band that is similar to the group that did I My Me Mine
01:10:28 <shachaf> elliott: London
01:10:30 <Bike> Sgeo_: i guess they're into "kitsch science fiction"
01:10:39 <Sgeo_> Polysics, which came after.... Devo...
01:10:43 <Sgeo_> Same Devo or different?
01:11:01 <Bike> same devo
01:11:04 <shachaf> elliott: £75 for the first 25 tickets!
01:11:09 <Sgeo_> ...
01:13:00 <elliott> i'm unsure as to the confusion here
01:13:11 <Bike> confuséd
01:14:27 <Bike> confusèd actually
01:14:52 <shachaf> confusēd
01:15:13 <elliott> i never remember which way around the accent goes for the shakespearian type
01:15:15 <shachaf> c̈ön̈f̈üs̈ëd̈
01:15:23 <elliott> good diaereses
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01:15:34 <shachaf> cmccann-style
01:15:43 <Bike> i think it's a grave accent if you're being shake spear ian
01:15:59 <shachaf> rip
01:17:06 <Bike> rip.
01:17:42 <Sgeo_> "We'll work on encrypting the cookie value. There should be a solution that will work without troubling the 100 thousand or so "legacy" accounts."
01:18:07 <shachaf> Sgeo_: why are you making everyone in this channel miserable
01:18:17 <shachaf> i was perfectly happy before you started talking about tvtropes
01:18:17 <kmc> harsh
01:18:21 <shachaf> now look where i am
01:18:37 <kmc> ok well it's not actually that interesting but if you want a range<int>(1, 10) for C++ then you can use this one i just wrote https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/5640703
01:18:42 <kmc> also this is probably in some library anywya
01:18:49 <shachaf> kmc: Hey, I wrote one too!
01:19:10 <kmc> omgnoway
01:19:13 <olsner> probably the shortest way to write [1..10] in c++
01:19:25 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/ir.txt
01:19:32 <kmc> you could also implement syntax "1..10"_r
01:19:35 <shachaf> crazy huh
01:19:40 <kmc> i started on that but ran out of fucks
01:19:55 <kmc> void operator++() { ++cur_; }
01:19:56 <kmc> void operator++(int) { cur_--; }
01:19:57 <shachaf> Hmm.
01:19:57 <kmc> really shachaf
01:20:00 <shachaf> really
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01:20:06 <kmc> you bad man
01:20:13 <shachaf> i can't quite remember the motivation for that...............
01:20:20 <shachaf> was there motivation or is it a bug
01:20:33 <kmc> one is prefix ++ and the other is postfix ++ (don't remember which)
01:20:38 <shachaf> Right.
01:20:56 <shachaf> Probably the one without (int) is prefix because the code worked, I think?
01:21:42 <shachaf> My mnemonic is going to be that postfix is supposed to be less efficient and passing in an extra int argument is obviously less efficient.
01:21:44 <shachaf> hth
01:22:06 <kmc> c_c
01:22:13 <kmc> is the value of the int argument specified
01:22:18 <shachaf> I don't think so.
01:22:21 <shachaf> But maybe it's passed on the stack.
01:23:22 <kmc> what a hack
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01:24:34 <shachaf> Does this code work for iter<unsigned int>(UINT_MIN, UINT_MAX)?
01:24:59 -!- TodPunk has joined.
01:25:03 <shachaf> I'm just going to leave that -- in there.
01:25:25 <shachaf> It can trip someone up if they ever make the mistake of trying to use my code.
01:30:21 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving).
01:38:53 * kmc forks and fixes
01:38:58 <kmc> An elegant, modern ir.txt, done right
01:39:25 <shachaf> celebrates craftswhiteship?
01:39:29 <Bike> celebrates artisanship (!!!!!)
01:39:44 <kmc> yeah
01:40:01 <kmc> wrt gendered language i actually have less of a problem with 'craftsmanship' because it's an abstract concept
01:40:04 <kmc> still not toally ideal
01:40:21 <shachaf> Bike: is that a kind of cheese
01:40:26 <kmc> i do have a problem with it being faddish and arguably meaningless
01:40:35 <shachaf> or a kind of boat
01:40:37 <Bike> shachaf: if only
01:40:53 <Bike> kmc: is it really "arguably"? how is it anything more than marketing
01:41:00 <kmc> describing programmers as craftsppl is at least more accurate than describing us as ninjas or painters
01:41:14 <shachaf> Yay, everyone's voting for my GHC proposal.
01:41:16 <olsner> or rock musicians
01:41:38 <shachaf> hey you know what's good, answer: prokofiev
01:41:55 <kmc> in fact "craft" is a pretty good compromise that admits the presence of aesthetic concerns while keeping the focus on practical utility
01:41:56 * Bike instantly gets "Dance of the Knights" playing in his head
01:42:39 <elliott> kmc: more like crapft
01:42:42 <elliott> b/c programming sucks
01:42:46 <kmc> indeed
01:42:48 <olsner> cruftsmanship
01:43:04 <Bike> crapsmith
01:43:10 <Bike> no wait it's poopsmith isn't it
01:43:28 <pikhq> It's Poopsmith.
01:43:47 <pikhq> He deals in Whatsit.
01:44:39 <Sgeo_> I don't know why I thought OpenPandora would be cheap
01:45:37 <shachaf> Dance of the Bikes
01:45:49 <Bike> i'd watch that opera
01:46:29 <Bike> it can be Alexander Nevsky but with bikes instead of horses. yes, hell yes
01:49:50 <shachaf> Bike: i'd watch that hth
01:49:58 <Bike> yes you would
01:50:50 <kmc> shachaf: what's your GHC proposal
01:51:17 <elliott> shachaf;'s marrying ghc
01:51:44 <kmc> omg congratulations!!
01:52:02 <Bike> maybe i should get "Battle of the Ice" stuck in my head instead of knights
01:52:09 <Bike> on
01:52:11 <Bike> w/e.
01:52:32 <shachaf> http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/7633
01:53:42 <Bike> "It's a bit ad hoc, but probably a jolly useful feature. Nothing technically hard about implementing it. If anyone wants to have a go, I'm happy to advise" he's not actually british right
01:54:32 <kmc> are you telling me this man is not british http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Simon_Peyton_Jones_01.jpg
01:55:03 <kmc> he looks like wallace (of & gromit)
01:55:11 <kmc> he was born in .za though
01:55:23 <copumpkin> that's a crazy photo
01:55:43 <kmc> i don't like Lemming's alternative proposal
01:55:44 <Sgeo_> I'm still trying to understand how lenses work
01:55:47 <kmc> {-# MINIMAL return AND (join OR (>>=)) #-}
01:55:48 <Bike> that's a crazy man
01:55:54 <Sgeo_> If you give a lens return or pure, what happens?
01:56:17 <elliott> kmc: i think some kind of and/or based thing could be good because that's how they're written in haddocks
01:56:29 <elliott> and ideally haddock should parse these and format like that
01:56:30 <kmc> seems needlessly complex. the original is just as expressive, it's just in DNF with simpler syntax
01:56:54 <kmc> obviously haddock should have a subroutine to generate minimal English descriptions of DNF formulæ!!!
01:56:57 <Sgeo_> (A OR B) AND (C OR D)
01:56:58 <elliott> right but if that form is what people write already and what we want our tools to display regardless, then you don't save much by doing it the simpler way
01:56:58 <shachaf> I don't like his syntax much either. I'm not sure that my original syntax is optimal, though.
01:57:09 <kmc> i'm sure it's not optimal shachaf ;)
01:57:10 <elliott> I don't like the concrete syntax of his proposal though of course
01:57:10 <kmc> few things are
01:57:23 <shachaf> kmc: i meant "optimal enough" hth
01:57:35 <kmc> elliott: obv it should be return ^ (join v (>>=))
01:57:37 <Bike> this sounds slightly bikesheddy
01:57:38 <Sgeo_> I guess that could be expressed
01:57:45 <kmc> Bike: 'slightly'
01:57:47 <elliott> kmc: return /\ (join \/ (>>=))
01:57:52 <elliott> kmc: return * (join + (>>=))
01:57:54 <Sgeo_> A,C A,D B,C B,D
01:57:57 <Sgeo_> But that's verbose
01:58:05 <Sgeo_> I don't know if there are classes that would benefit
01:58:08 <elliott> {-# MINIMAL COMPLETE DEFINITION: return and either join or (>>=). #-}
01:58:13 <kmc> yeah you shuould draw an ascii art truth table
01:58:21 <kmc> shuould: word of 2013??
01:58:48 <kmc> [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A handcrafted IRC client]
01:58:53 <kmc> what does that even mean
01:59:01 <elliott> it celebrates craftsmanship
01:59:09 <elliott> has a little /celebrate command
01:59:22 <Sgeo_> Clearly it's hand-made. They rewrite the entire thing for each user.
01:59:48 <kmc> like do they think it means anything
01:59:49 <kmc> is it a joke
01:59:53 <kmc> i'm at a loss here people
02:00:09 <shachaf> I like it when people say "handpicked".
02:00:10 <Bike> Designed to be used easily and freely.
02:00:16 <elliott> kmc: it's like some kind of cutesy tongue in cheek bullshit
02:00:21 -!- Sgeo|kiwi has joined.
02:00:21 <shachaf> Like "a handpicked collection of short stories" or something.
02:00:23 <elliott> which shows you're v. indie
02:00:26 <elliott> holy fucking shit Sgeo|kiwi
02:00:35 <Bike> ✔ No PhD required
02:00:43 <Sgeo_> ...
02:00:50 <kmc> what
02:01:04 <Sgeo_> I tried the slap function. Kiwi seems to indicate that I ACTIONed something'
02:01:05 <kmc> obviously they mean "not written in haskell"
02:01:21 <Bike> /set var_name new_value command to modify settings
02:01:22 <kmc> Sgeolkivich
02:01:31 <Sgeo|kiwi> * Sgeo|kiwi slaps elliott around a bit with a large trout 
02:01:31 <Sgeo|kiwi> * Sgeo|kiwi slaps elliott around a bit with a large trout
02:01:41 <Bike> it's like it's really the 90s
02:01:43 <Sgeo_> oops, meant to paste once
02:01:48 <Sgeo_> Bike, but it never actually DID that
02:01:52 <kmc> the dream of the 90s is alive in kiwiirc
02:01:52 <Sgeo_> Kiwi is lying to me
02:02:04 <elliott> "sexy channel list" when i am world dictator programmers will be banned from calling things sexy. anything whatsoever. it is the burden you accept when becoming a programmer
02:02:11 <Sgeo_> I love it when my software lies to me!
02:02:15 <Bike> fuck you kmc i don't want it stuck in my head again
02:02:22 <olsner> elliott: celibate channel list?
02:02:23 <Bike> Sgeo_: well let's be fair, the trout thing is obnoxious as hell
02:02:42 <Sgeo_> But then why even pretend to support it?
02:02:50 <Bike> to make fun of you
02:04:04 <Sgeo_> Oh hey it's open-source
02:04:12 <Sgeo_> Let me go see if I can find any details about this
02:04:19 <Bike> about this hand craftedness
02:04:46 <shachaf> Bike: things stick in your head eaisly..........................
02:04:51 <kmc> they make their software by hand, not like those faceless corporations with their software machines
02:05:03 <Bike> shachaf: i get music stuck in my head really easily yeah
02:05:17 <Bike> kmc: i kind of want an irc client that was written by simulated annealing or something, now
02:05:24 <kmc> we decide what goes inside your head
02:05:48 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHCp2-YcBeU
02:06:17 <Bike> phosphene dream, heh
02:06:32 <kmc> they also released an EP named Phosgene Nightmare
02:06:55 <olsner> is that fertilizer or nerve gas?
02:07:16 <kmc> it's a chemical weapon, not technically nerve gas I think
02:07:38 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phosgene_poster_ww2.jpg
02:07:46 <Bike> now i want to listen to some classic fucked up shit
02:07:56 <Bike> time for some throbbing gristle i think
02:08:19 <Bike> kmc: dumbo's lookin' pretty kinky there
02:08:21 <kmc> "Toxic phosgene doses (greater than or equal to 30 ppm X min) inhaled into the terminal respiratory passages render the blood-air-barrier more permeable to blood plasma, which gradually collects in the lung."
02:08:24 <olsner> hmm, I think I am getting a bit of an "increased dopey feeling" from listening to this
02:08:25 <kmc> D:
02:08:28 <kmc> so basically you drown in your own blood
02:08:55 <shachaf> is that better or worse than drowning in someone else's blood
02:09:45 <Bike> haaaamburger laaaaady
02:13:06 -!- Sgeo|kiwi has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client).
02:13:07 <elliott> kmc: imo your name is Keegan Miuaf Callister
02:13:12 <kmc> welp
02:13:27 <elliott> cracked the code
02:13:38 <Bike> miuaf is the sound a high cat makes, imo
02:14:16 <shachaf> miuchaf
02:14:49 <elliott> main is usually shachaf
02:22:58 <kmc> shachaf: how do i get less bitter
02:23:43 <shachaf> kmc: hugs?
02:24:14 <kmc> could help
02:24:22 <shachaf> do you mean about something specific
02:24:23 <kmc> but i get a lot of hugs as is
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02:26:55 <shachaf> who's more bitter, shachaf or kmc?
02:27:33 <kmc> well right now i'm bitter about getting fired from my web startup job, and the fact that either the stated reasons are bullshit, or they completely failed at communicating with me while i worked there
02:28:11 <kmc> these are people who I thought were friends and good people and now I'm so angry that I can't sleep properly and probably want to never talk to them again
02:28:46 <Sgeo_> Huh. afaict, gzip does in fact have an option for saying "This is uncompressed"
02:31:26 <olsner> shachaf: sounds like kmc is bittrer
02:33:11 <madbr> in that situation it's normal
02:33:19 <Bike> http://www.webvisionsevent.com/portland/session/build-your-brand-the-rock-star-way-y4p0/ i'm thinking i don't want to attend this
02:33:32 <Bike> http://www.webvisionsevent.com/slides/portland/pix/trammell.jpg
02:34:53 <kmc> i can't really understand this well enough to make fun of it
02:35:08 <Sgeo_> Gregor, fluidsynth is claiming chorium has invalid generators
02:35:20 <kmc> Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen.
02:35:57 * Sgeo_ wonders if Titanic is good
02:36:04 <kmc> i realize it's normal to be bitter in this situation, but i would still like to learn how to become less bitter over time
02:36:14 <Bike> wait until you forget about it?
02:36:29 <kmc> could be a while
02:37:46 <shachaf> i think you automatically become less angry about things unless you put effort into staying angry, most of the time
02:37:51 <shachaf> at least i do??
02:37:52 <kmc> but i am getting a new job and moving to a new city far away from here
02:37:55 <kmc> so that should help
02:38:02 <Gregor> <Sgeo_> Gregor, fluidsynth is claiming chorium has invalid generators // Yup.
02:38:12 <kmc> i would rather be able to stay friends with these people
02:38:22 <kmc> maybe it just ain't gonna happen, though
02:38:28 <Gregor> Sgeo_: You need to stop worrying and love the bomb.
02:38:35 <Bike> it does sound pretty crappy on their part
02:38:43 <Bike> but maybe you'll feel differently in a while, it's hard to say
02:38:48 <Sgeo_> Gregor, have you tried Titanic? Is it good? I'm getting it from the same site that has Chorium
02:38:53 <kmc> I mean, I think they just fired me because I was unhappy, which I was, and I'm glad to be done with working there because it wasn't a great place for me
02:39:17 <kmc> I wish they could admit that instead of coming up with a bunch of stuff about how I didn't work on enough / the right things, when that never came up in weekly meetings with my manager
02:39:38 <Sgeo_> Also, why do I need unfree software to piece together a multipart rar?
02:39:46 <kmc> because now I worry that I missed some super coded management signal regarding working on the wrong stuff
02:39:49 <Bike> isn't rar patented or something
02:40:03 <Sgeo_> Am I breaking the law by doing this? :/
02:40:04 <madbr> 7zip doesn't do it?
02:40:17 <Bike> kmc: from what you've said it seems unlikely that you missed a signal, and even if you did shouldn't they just talk to you instead of some weird coy sign language bullshit
02:40:21 <Sgeo_> Ark wanted unrar so I gave it unrar
02:40:23 <kmc> yeah
02:41:17 <kmc> I was never super excited about the job, but it turns out that failure hurts like a motherfucker even if you weren't super excited about the thing you failed at
02:41:25 <Sgeo_> Hmm, Titanic seems nice
02:41:27 <Bike> yeah :/
02:41:46 <Sgeo_> I kind of forgot what the SONiVOX version sounded like though
02:42:03 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/43a1ee041966efb2d37064e67501b2fd/tumblr_mjti81sBVi1s5k0eto1_500.jpg oh just in time for sgeo
02:42:23 <kmc> i haven't seen Titanic
02:42:34 * Sgeo_ is referring to the soundfont known as Titanic
02:42:36 <shachaf> kmc: i love super coded management signals
02:42:43 <madbr> failure hurts hard
02:42:52 <shachaf> by love i mean the opposite of that
02:42:55 <kmc> shachaf: do you have experience with this in the past?
02:42:58 <Bike> yeah i figured that but: i don't care because the movie is better probably
02:43:45 <shachaf> not exactly... well, it depends
02:44:22 <shachaf> the point was going to be that super coded signals aren't a great way to communicate
02:44:38 <kmc> yeah
02:44:53 <kmc> and i'd be angry regardless, but if there is a coded signal I should learn to recognize it, for my own self preservation
02:45:08 <Sgeo_> I think I really like Titanic
02:45:18 <Sgeo_> Seems ... quiet though
02:46:09 <Sgeo_> fluidsynth is a bit slow to start with it though
02:47:18 <Gregor> <Sgeo_> Gregor, have you tried Titanic? Is it good? I'm getting it from the same site that has Chorium // Haven't heard of it.
02:47:37 <Sgeo_> http://artagap.free.fr/karpbo/index.htm
02:50:40 <Sgeo_> Hmm, I finally found a song that I don't like how Titanic handles
02:50:45 <Sgeo_> The fifth element theme
02:51:47 <Gregor> How does it compare to SONiVOX?
02:52:27 <Sgeo_> I like SONiVOX's fifth element better than Titanic's, but I think other than that they're similar or, with stheme5a I think I liked Titanic's much better
02:52:33 <kmc> paper clips are called "trombones" in french
02:52:50 <kmc> Un trombone « classique ».
02:53:24 <Sgeo_> wrlds1 sounds just fine in Titanic I ... think
02:53:28 <Bike> un trombone moderne
02:53:32 <Sgeo_> Would need to relisten to the SONiVOX though
02:53:53 <kmc> Dans l'environnement de Microsoft Office, la forme par défaut de l'assistant est un trombone anthropomorphique appelé Trombine (Clippit dans la version anglaise).
02:56:40 <Sgeo_> It does something... weird to oh_lamour.mid
02:57:44 <kmc> oh l'trombone
02:59:31 <Sgeo_> > fluidsynth: warning: Instrument not found on channel 14 [bank=8 prog=14], substituted [bank=0 prog=14]
02:59:32 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:62: parse error on input `='
02:59:42 <Sgeo_> (for some midi which I haven't tried with other soundfonts)
03:00:25 <madbr> why does it have bank changes
03:01:54 <Sgeo_> No idea
03:02:03 <Sgeo_> I don't know much about MIDI
03:02:13 <madbr> is it GS or XG or GM2 ?
03:02:22 <Sgeo_> Don't know
03:02:28 <Sgeo_> I know I do have XG files..
03:02:34 <Sgeo_> Don't know how many though
03:02:46 <madbr> usually that's what those bank changes are used for
03:02:53 <kmc> i broke a glass just by putting ice cubes into it
03:03:01 <kmc> stupid thermal stress
03:03:58 <kmc> my friend broke a bunch of non-pyrex petri dishes this way :/
03:25:40 <shachaf> kmc: It's ^/. It's tilted the same direction as italics.
03:25:48 <kmc> ok
03:26:41 <Sgeo_> I do think Titanic is better than Chorium
03:27:03 <Sgeo_> Although maybe my (unknown in accuracy) assumption that they're by the same person may be unfounded
03:27:21 <Sgeo_> Which may be biasing my thoughts
03:30:00 <Sgeo_> Ok, quite different sounds on this one file
03:31:00 <Sgeo_> generaluser makes this instrument sound ... crisp. I'm not sure if that's good
03:33:26 <Sgeo_> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_x0wXsJq5I
03:33:34 <Sgeo_> (Some guy who likes Titanic)
03:34:16 <Bike> this is bad sgeo
03:34:42 <mnoqy> i demand only the highest in fine quality F-ZERO sound track
03:36:44 <kmc> the percussion is pretty meh
03:38:37 <madbr> needs velocity on the hihats
03:39:31 <mnoqy> i dont think thats the biggest problem
03:39:45 <Sgeo_> :/ I'm a bad judge of music
03:40:26 <shachaf> HEY IT'S MNOQY
03:40:28 <shachaf> HELLO MNOQY
03:40:37 <mnoqy> hi shachaf
03:40:44 <shachaf> `relcome mnoqy
03:40:48 <HackEgo> mnoqy: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
03:41:36 <coppro> who here is /u/hexhammer?
03:42:32 <mnoqy> what's that :)
03:42:36 <Bike> who indeed
03:58:21 <Sgeo_> ............I think it's missing instruments
03:58:28 <Sgeo_> worlds3 seemed to go silent at a weird place
03:58:34 <Sgeo_> fluidsynth did not give any warnings
04:00:51 <Sgeo_> This song that I never heard before sure sounds beautiful under Titanic
04:11:16 <tswett> http://i.imgur.com/jeq9T3x.png
04:12:33 <kmc> great hint
04:15:33 <tswett> This isn't related to anything, but I just tried typing my nick hastily, and then typing the result of that hastily, and so on for a while. The result:
04:15:37 <tswett> tstwett tswettt tswettt tdw2ett tse23tt tse23tt tse23tt tsee2tt tsee2tt tse32et tse23tew tse23tew tse23twe tese23twet tese23tet tese23tet teset23te teset3tet teste34te teste2423t test2423t test3t34t test3t34t test3r3rt test3r3t test3r3t test3er3t test33e3t tes3r3r3t tes3r3t tesr3rt tersett tereset tereset tersetg tserget tserget tsergert tserfertt tesdrfett tesdrfett tesdert tesrdet tesrdet tesrerf tesrefdeg tesrdefer tesredetr tesrdert tesrdert
04:15:37 <tswett> tsdert tsert test test test test test test test test test
04:15:42 * tswett bows.
04:15:55 <tswett> Five minutes of applause will suffice.
04:17:50 <mnoqy> why did you do that
04:18:16 <shachaf> mnoqy: "combo inspiration"
04:18:31 <mnoqy> shachaf: ?
04:18:39 <shachaf> Mn Oq
04:18:40 <shachaf> it's a combo
04:18:44 <shachaf> of Mn and Oq
04:18:49 <mnoqy> ah ok
04:26:23 <Sgeo_> Hints that something is easy can be useful
04:26:39 <Sgeo_> Directs the mind on what sort of things to try first
04:26:56 <Sgeo_> Heck, even knowing that something is possible is useful
04:28:08 <Sgeo_> I wonder if math has examples of non-constructive proofs of the existence of a proof
04:29:12 <Sgeo_> I feel like there's some set of objects I should exclude from that, but not sure how to phrase it
04:29:36 <madbr> what, proof that a proof exists?
04:30:11 <Sgeo_> Yes. Preferably not of the variety of "proof of statement, therefore proof of proof of statement"...
04:30:12 <Bike> Sgeo_: i think löb's theorem might fuck that up?
04:30:50 <madbr> intuitively it sounds like proving that a proof exists is by definition a proof
04:32:13 <Bike> this is non-constructive, intuition don't work
04:32:50 <shachaf> proving that bicycles exist
04:32:53 <shachaf> hi Bike
04:32:54 <Sgeo_> I'm just going to observe, and hope my brain doesn't explode.
04:33:13 <mnoqy> hm?
04:33:15 <shachaf> HI BIKE
04:33:25 <Bike> hi, shachaf.
04:33:32 <shachaf> There we go.
04:33:33 <shachaf> QED
04:34:07 <Bike> Counterpoint: You've shown that a bike exists. Does it then follow that (multiple) bicycles exist?
04:34:28 <shachaf> Every bicycle exists.
04:34:34 <shachaf> In fact, everything exists.
04:35:28 <shachaf> zomg now i'm listening to peter and the wolf and so much nostalgia man help
04:35:41 <Bike> there is no help
04:47:09 <madbr> it's like
04:47:34 <madbr> if you prove that there's a proof, you also prove that there is no proof to the contrary
04:47:46 <madbr> otherwise you'd have a contradiction
04:47:51 <mnoqy> hi
04:48:26 <shachaf> mnoqy mnoqy mnoqy
04:48:31 <mnoqy> hi
04:48:53 <madbr> so I think if you have a proof that there's a proof.... that's just a proof
04:49:25 <shachaf> what if you have a fix (proof that there's a)
04:51:36 <shachaf> oops i didn't finish golfing that
04:51:54 <Bike> Hm, so, how about a constructive example. How would one prove nonconstructively that a proof of the infinitude of primes exists.
04:53:26 <Bike> I guess you could suck and say "well it's in euclid right"
04:53:55 <mnoqy> just toss in a few double negation eliminations and you'll be fine
04:54:15 <shachaf> ¬¬hi mnoqy
04:54:16 <elliott> mnoqy: well it's about the existence of a proof
04:54:21 <elliott> not the theorem itself
04:54:26 <mnoqy> i know
04:54:55 <elliott> well i guess what you said makes sense if you don't interpret Bike's statement to mean "in a way that doesn't trivially give rise to a constructive proof of the same"
04:55:07 <mnoqy> yes
04:55:12 <Bike> an assholish proof, if you wil
04:55:17 <mnoqy> before you all said your things i was going to say
04:55:19 <mnoqy> "proof that there doesn't not exist a proof of the infinitude of primes? it could happen"
04:57:37 <Sgeo_> Oh geez there's more than just bitcoin and namecoin
04:57:37 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/ALTcointip/wiki/index
04:57:51 <Sgeo_> http://altcoins.com/
04:57:51 <mnoqy> there are tons of those things sgeo
04:58:01 <Bike> proofcoin
04:58:14 <Sgeo_> Feathercoin
04:58:19 <elliott> q
04:58:20 <Sgeo_> Someone should give some to ais523
04:58:23 <shachaf> Bikecoin
04:58:24 <kmc> http://buttcoin.org/when-the-mining-gets-tough-the-not-so-tough-get-forked
04:58:28 <shachaf> hi Bike, mnoqy
04:58:50 <mnoqy> zerocoin? that's a coin right
04:58:56 <mnoqy> ah yes i remember buttcoin
04:59:08 <kmc> zerocoin is an anonymization extension to Bitcoin
04:59:29 <kmc> the exchange rate between zerocoins and bitcoins is fixed, and they live in the same block chain
04:59:30 <mnoqy> oh litecoin that's another i was thinking of
05:01:35 <kmc> so it's not really like these others
05:05:17 <shachaf> mnoqoin
05:16:47 <shachaf> oops i read youtube comments
05:16:49 <shachaf> what do i do
05:17:58 <Bike> run
05:18:18 <shachaf> Does "system engineering" have any actual meaning?
05:19:13 <Bike> does anything
05:20:23 <kmc> context?
05:21:26 <shachaf> Talking about things that people do in jobs.
05:21:28 <shachaf> I think it just has several meanings which are sort of vaguely related.
05:21:33 <shachaf> Anyway it doesn't matter.
05:25:48 <Sgeo_> help
05:25:50 <Sgeo_> hmm
05:26:40 <copumpkin> why engineer systems when you can system engineers?
05:42:40 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Radiateur).
06:31:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
06:33:41 -!- Bike has joined.
06:58:43 <pikhq> Nice thing about having all your stuff in FLAC: you can transcode to lossy formats easily.
06:58:52 <pikhq> Bad thing: you have to for portable devices.
07:00:37 <fizzie> I'm not sure "easily" is the right word there; it's probably not really any more *difficult* to transcode from one lossy format to another, just stupid.
07:00:47 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
07:01:06 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
07:01:33 <pikhq> fizzie: Let's go with "sanely".
07:01:55 * Bike grumbles about audiophiles, continues listening to flv
07:02:20 <pikhq> Bike: I mostly use FLAC for archival's sake.
07:02:35 <pikhq> To be perfectly honest, a LAME-encoded MP3 is just fine quality-wise.
07:05:02 <fizzie> If you're sufficiently synaesthetic, can you store your music in animated GIFs?
07:06:49 <Deewiant> Even if you could the compression ratio would likely be atrocious
08:01:29 <shachaf> kmc: ^/, ^_, and ^7 all work for underlining
08:04:19 <kmc> i encode everything for portable devices with oggenc -q3, even if the source is mp3
08:04:22 <kmc> yolo
08:04:47 <kmc> is original -> 320 kbps mp3 -> vorbis q3 noticably worse than original -> vorbis q3?
08:05:26 <elliott> it's noticeably worse because you know you transcoded and feel dirty
08:05:33 <kmc> no, because, you see
08:05:34 <kmc> yolo
08:06:05 <shachaf> most people don't even lo
08:06:20 <Bike> my twitter feed is haiku about breaking iphones inbetween horrible news about massacres in qusayr. is this... the future...
08:06:31 <kmc> yep
08:06:45 <elliott> now i want a haiku about broken iphones *and* massacres
08:06:58 <kmc> lifes too short to care about replacing all my music originals with flac
08:06:59 <elliott> a 'relevant' haiku of the 'now'
08:07:08 <elliott> it can also be about flac
08:07:12 <kmc> do the haiku end with "sent from my iphone"
08:07:19 <shachaf> kmc: you have, what, a few tb of music originals?
08:07:29 <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone
08:07:31 <shachaf> s/y/Y/ s/tb/TB/
08:07:57 <Bike> oh nice you got the seasonal word in there
08:08:00 <Bike> good haiku
08:08:13 <shachaf> `addquote <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone
08:08:19 <HackEgo> 1041) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone
08:08:29 <mnoqy> how many haikus are there in quotedb nowadays
08:08:35 <elliott> i think just two
08:08:38 <Bike> `quote /
08:08:38 <elliott> `quote \s/\s
08:08:40 <HackEgo> 433) <monqy> beautiful summer / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck / fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck \ 482) <monqy> i am out of all the fame loops <monqy> and the australien soap opera loops <monqy> so much loop / s omcuh \ 1041) <elliott> beautiful summer / massacres in qusayr / sent from my iphone
08:08:40 <HackEgo> 72) <scarf> and an AMICED literal would presumably /add/ info to the source <scarf> whatever info gets added, that's the value that the AMICED doesn't contain <scarf> it's all falling into place \ 111) <ais523> reading playboy for the articles actually seems plausible nowadays <ais523> after all, there's porn all over the internet, why would you
08:08:48 <elliott> looks like two
08:08:49 <Bike> monqy's is better
08:08:53 <elliott> unless you count 482
08:09:01 <elliott> Bike: well my line was intended to be read having already seen 433
08:09:08 <elliott> if you haven't seen 433 before then i may have ruined the "impact" a bit
08:09:08 <Bike> oh i see
08:09:13 <Bike> we got some intertexuality going here
08:09:16 <elliott> yes
08:09:17 <shachaf> elliott: no i think it was better without it
08:09:22 <shachaf> now that i saw 433 "its kinda ruined"
08:09:23 <Bike> high concept haiku
08:09:35 <kmc> re playboy http://achewood.com/index.php?date=10212004
08:09:48 <Bike> "DIY Weapons In Syria - The Hell Cannon"
08:09:48 <kmc> shachaf: 3.8TB total, not very well de-duplicated
08:10:04 <kmc> there's a subset that i "actually listen to" which is ilke 150GB
08:10:05 <shachaf> how much of it without "beats"
08:10:22 <kmc> and then a subset of that transcoded to ogg vorbis is 17G
08:10:23 <shachaf> also is achewood.com down
08:10:31 <kmc> no
08:10:40 <shachaf> hmm, no. is it slow
08:10:51 <Deewiant> No
08:10:59 <mnoqy> shachaf always with the "beats" eh
08:11:00 <mnoqy> so silly
08:11:11 -!- oerjan has joined.
08:11:23 <shachaf> `WELCOME oerjan
08:11:42 <oerjan> `THANKYOU shachaf
08:11:43 <lambdabot> oerjan: You have 2 new messages. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read them.
08:11:43 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: THANKYOU: not found
08:11:45 <mnoqy> always with the oerjan eh
08:11:59 <shachaf> always with the always with the eh eh
08:12:32 <mnoqy> only twice!!
08:12:46 <shachaf> yolt
08:13:13 <oerjan> @tell taneb Remind me when we're on simultaneously hth
08:13:13 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:13:53 <shachaf> oerjan: the hth thing is getting kind of old hth
08:14:30 <oerjan> afaik iirc it was old even before it started fwiw hth
08:15:10 <elliott> oerjan: theres a guy who dont understand turing completeness on the wiki hope you help
08:15:23 <oerjan> elliott: MAYBE LATER
08:15:27 <shachaf> afaic wid
08:15:31 <shachaf> hth
08:15:36 <mnoqy> hows the wiki btw
08:15:37 <Bike> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAFhkdGtHck structure aware hair reconstruction
08:16:42 <mnoqy> spherical harmonic illumination conditions
08:17:23 <mnoqy> mmm simulation-ready plants
08:17:44 <elliott> Yay our hair project is in it!
08:18:12 <mnoqy> animation-styling, handwriting-styling,
08:19:01 <mnoqy> lots of simulations
08:19:13 <mnoqy> now we can simulate: more fluids, and FINALLY snow
08:19:55 <shachaf> can i simulate snow
08:20:05 <mnoqy> maybe if you use their technique
08:20:10 <mnoqy> so this SIGGRAPH thing looks cool but it doesnt come close to SIGBOVIK, imo
08:20:18 <oerjan> <elliott> Bike: wait you thought it was about real objects? <-- for _that_ kind of destruction ask the taliban, or the chinese government hth
08:20:46 <Bike> are the red guards actually part of the government? also what about the saudis. also why am i awake help.
08:21:12 <shachaf> Bike: uh oh
08:21:15 <elliott> @time Bike
08:21:16 <lambdabot> Local time for Bike is Fri May 24 01:21:15 2013
08:21:20 <shachaf> have you considered calling your sleep advisor "elliott"
08:21:26 <oerjan> i am not sure what the saudis have destroyed lately
08:21:50 <Bike> they concreted eve's tomb back in 2009 or whatever
08:21:52 <elliott> nice storms in the related videos here
08:21:54 <Bike> too tired to remember specifics
08:22:14 <shachaf> from now on instead of pseudo-haiku you will write DOUBLE DACTYLS hth
08:22:18 <oerjan> and as for the chinese government, i just saw something about it in the newspaper, and it's current.
08:22:20 <Bike> gosh that was four years ago. i was so young
08:22:30 <elliott> i don't even remember how old Bike is
08:22:32 <elliott> 4???
08:22:35 <Bike> 4
08:22:36 <elliott> bikes don't live long i think
08:22:41 <Bike> in bike years
08:22:50 <shachaf> how many Bike years are there in a normal person year
08:22:51 <elliott> how many is that in normal people years
08:22:55 <elliott> help
08:23:02 <shachaf> elliott: are you stealing my phrasings
08:23:16 <Bike> it's like dog years in that there's no linear relation and it's generally a pointless concept
08:23:35 <shachaf> no matter how old you are, you're always 4 in Bike years
08:23:40 <shachaf> "constant function hth"
08:23:59 <mnoqy> hm does anyone take dog years seriously
08:24:05 <shachaf> dogs do hth
08:24:10 <oerjan> wait i remember bladerunner. if bike only lives for 4 years he may be a replicant
08:24:12 <elliott> Bike: it looks like the tomb was sealed with concrete in 1975
08:24:16 <elliott> are you old
08:24:16 <shachaf> dogs are kind of stupid though
08:24:28 <shachaf> they'll believe anything
08:24:35 <elliott> shachaf: the hth thing is getting kind of old hth
08:24:45 <elliott> why don't you try a monoids joke instead
08:26:37 <Bike> mnoqy: they're good for introducing little kids to old yeller and shit
08:27:02 <Bike> er the one with the intestines
08:27:02 <mnoqy> isnt that the one where they shoot the dog
08:27:05 <Bike> where the red fern grows.
08:27:17 <mnoqy> does the dog die in that one too
08:27:21 <Bike> yeah
08:27:24 <mnoqy> intestines sound pleasant
08:27:34 <Bike> damn near traumatized my entire middle school class
08:27:41 <Bike> i musta been 4 at the time
08:27:47 <shachaf> hey Bike, write me a higgledy-piggledy DOUBLE DACTYL
08:27:59 <Bike> i am way too fucking tired to remember which foot that is
08:28:10 <shachaf> the wrong foot hth
08:28:16 <Bike> wait
08:28:21 <mnoqy> arent middle schools old enough to stomach intestines
08:28:23 <Bike> are you indicating it with "higgledy piggledy"
08:28:26 <Bike> i fucking hate you
08:28:31 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_dactyl
08:28:33 <Bike> imo
08:28:41 <shachaf> it's a whole form of thing not just a meter
08:28:51 <Bike> you fucker
08:32:06 <oerjan> <elliott> let's say... 42 and if he's younger than that, god have mercy on my soul <-- since you remembered my age correctly i'll forgive you for calling me practically dead although you do get a hth
08:32:26 <shachaf> Bike: well are you writing it
08:32:29 <elliott> oerjan: a few lines later i wonder if you might be older
08:32:34 <elliott> i anticipate the swattings
08:32:55 <oerjan> @slap elliott
08:32:55 <lambdabot> I don't perform such side effects on command!
08:33:02 <elliott> 8)
08:33:47 <mnoqy> im checking the recent edits on the wiki
08:33:52 <mnoqy> im glad http://esolangs.org/wiki/Yo was spell corrected
08:33:52 <oerjan> also my favorite meter is pterodactyl hth
08:34:06 <mnoqy> a valuable article
08:34:06 <fizzie> Also I'm 30 as speculated hth
08:35:15 <oerjan> why does fizzie keep being just 30 when i've thought he was older for years
08:35:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
08:35:46 <mnoqy> "derpcode is a tape-based esoteric programming language based on internet slang" o hey it's that guy but this looks like a new language??
08:35:47 <elliott> fizzie: when is your birthday
08:35:49 <elliott> oerjan: you also
08:35:57 <mnoqy> "derpcode has five commands, although an expansion to achieve Turing-complete status is planned"
08:36:20 <shachaf> @tell Bike NOT SO EASY
08:36:20 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
08:36:37 <mnoqy> why do people make all of these languages
08:36:48 <oerjan> elliott: my birthday is perfect in every way hth
08:37:10 <mnoqy> oerjan gets older, closer to death, "perfect"
08:37:48 <oerjan> mnoqy: it was a hint you doofus
08:38:04 <mnoqy> did i solve the riddle
08:38:10 <oerjan> no.
08:38:47 <oerjan> i may have revealed my birthday on-channel previously, anyway. i'm not quite sure.
08:38:58 <shachaf> oerjan: what's your birthday
08:39:11 <shachaf> is it: may 24 2013
08:39:13 * oerjan swats shachaf -----###
08:39:27 <FreeFull> You don't even need 5 commands to be turing complete
08:39:28 <shachaf> ("did u notice the americanism")
08:39:31 <elliott> oerjan: is it a perfect number both the day,monthe,
08:39:33 <FreeFull> You can have fewer
08:39:36 <mnoqy> Talk:English
08:39:36 <mnoqy> I was fooled by this until I got to the end. I thought it sounded like a cool language! --(this comment by at 01:37, 5 May 2013‎ UTC; please sign your comments with ~~~~)
08:39:41 <oerjan> elliott: ding ding ding
08:39:47 <elliott> oerjan: is there a fire
08:40:02 <oerjan> your pants are on fire
08:41:51 <shachaf> hey anyone writing DOUBLE DACTYLS about Bike years
08:42:02 <shachaf> i wrote one but it breaks the rules also it's pointless
08:42:07 <shachaf> so someone plz write a better one
08:42:15 <fizzie> elliott: It's sometime in April. (I've probably given it away somewhere in the logs already, though.)
08:43:07 <shachaf> `log fizzie's birthday
08:43:11 <elliott> fizzie: happy 30 then
08:43:12 <shachaf> guess not
08:43:31 <shachaf> higgledy-piggledy / bicycle chronographs: / pretty good instruments -- / right twice a day / most of the time, though, they're / off by a little bit; / but for their purposes / off is okay
08:43:35 <HackEgo> 2013-05-24.txt:08:43:07: <shachaf> `log fizzie's birthday
08:43:45 <shachaf> HackEgo: whoa dude, so meta....................
08:44:27 <oerjan> elliott: also hint, it's less than a week from agora's birthday
08:44:48 <oerjan> (that should settle the small ambiguity)
08:45:02 <shachaf> agora = 1/100th of a shekel right
08:47:37 <shachaf> higgledly piggledy / ørjan johansen thinks / monoids are easy, but / semigroups hard; / why he should be such a / fan of identities? / anyone's guess; he has / caught us off-guard
08:47:46 <shachaf> this meter is easy to write bad rhymes in when you get used to it
08:48:37 <elliott> oerjan: i am too tired to work it out, i am afraid
08:48:49 <elliott> and also, lazy.
08:50:36 <oerjan> thus thwarted, my secret remains secure.
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08:57:54 <shachaf> mnoqy: i think someone's up to some mischief in #haskell
08:58:03 <mnoqy> huh?
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08:59:15 <shachaf> false alarm
08:59:20 <mnoqy> ok
08:59:32 <shachaf> hey fizzie op me so i can +v mnoqy
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08:59:40 <mnoqy> ???
08:59:56 * shachaf is procrastinating on things :'(
09:02:01 <shachaf> wow there are a lot of rules for DOUBLE DACTYLS
09:02:07 <shachaf> i broke all of them
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10:44:27 <shachaf> hey you know what's a really good channel, answer: #haskell
10:44:31 <shachaf> btw good means terrible
10:45:01 <mnoqy> yes
10:45:27 <mnoqy> i particularly like the part where it's the worst thing in the world
10:46:05 <shachaf> hey that's a good part
10:46:11 <shachaf> i like that part
10:54:45 <shachaf> oerjan: hey it was may 17 the other day
10:54:46 <shachaf> how was that
10:54:58 <oerjan> <elliott> oerjan: theres a guy who dont understand turing completeness on the wiki hope you help <-- i suspect he just doesn't understand zzo's specification, which is somewhat weak on telling that there actually are cells with values at each coordinate
10:55:10 <oerjan> shachaf: i slept through most of it hth
10:55:48 <shachaf> was there a big party
10:56:01 <oerjan> there were parades. as always.
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11:14:15 <ais523_> probably ontopic in a sideways way: http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/1956/generate-the-longest-error-message-in-c
11:14:32 <ais523_> basically, it's a golf-like competition to generate long error messages from short C++ programs
11:16:40 <shachaf> I bet you could do something great with Haskell.
11:16:54 <Deewiant> Eh, they haven't locked down the compiler so half of it is finding the most verbose version
11:17:10 <shachaf> A type error in one of those double-exponential inference cases.
11:17:23 <ais523_> yeah, it seems poorly defined
11:17:27 <ais523_> but the concept is pretty funny anyway
11:18:12 <Deewiant> The #include __FILE__ one is probably the shortest way to get an infinite output in some specific compiler/version
11:18:14 <shachaf> There were similar competitions in #haskell with e.g. @pl
11:19:12 <shachaf> GHC also used to generate an infinite error.
11:19:40 <Jafet> > fix error
11:19:40 <FreeFull> Longest possible @pl output?
11:19:41 <lambdabot> "*Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *Exception: *E...
11:19:55 <Deewiant> That's not a compiler error
11:20:13 <shachaf> Yes, I think the infinite error was a bug in the pretty-printer.
11:20:19 <Jafet> @pl \a b c d e f -> f e d c b a
11:20:19 <lambdabot> flip (flip . ((flip . ((flip . (flip .)) .)) .) . flip (flip . ((flip . (flip .)) .) . flip (flip . (flip .) . flip (flip . flip id))))
11:20:52 <Jafet> http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/3994/write-a-code-golf-problem-in-which-java-wins
11:22:58 <FreeFull> @pl \a -> a a a a a a a
11:22:59 <lambdabot> join (join (join (join (join (join id)))))
11:23:16 <FreeFull> :t \a -> a a a a a a a
11:23:17 <lambdabot> Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type:
11:23:17 <lambdabot> t1 = t1 -> t2 -> t3 -> t4 -> t5 -> t6 -> t0
11:23:17 <lambdabot> In the first argument of `a', namely `a'
11:24:11 <FreeFull> @pl \f -> fix f fix fix f f
11:24:11 <lambdabot> join (join (flip (flip fix fix) fix))
11:24:23 <shachaf> @type ((((((((((((((((([] :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
11:24:25 <FreeFull> I'm not good at this
11:24:35 <ais523_> Deewiant: I'm not sure #include __FILE__ is likely to produce an infinite output, unless you put an erroring line before the include
11:24:38 <lambdabot> thread killed
11:24:47 <FreeFull> :t ([]:)
11:24:48 <lambdabot> [[a]] -> [[a]]
11:24:55 <FreeFull> :t (([]:):)
11:24:55 <shachaf> @type ((((((((((((((((([] :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
11:24:56 <lambdabot> [[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]
11:25:05 <Deewiant> ais523_: Right, not by itself, of course
11:25:07 <shachaf> It worked for dons once.
11:25:10 <lambdabot> thread killed
11:25:57 <shachaf> @type (((((((((((([] :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
11:25:59 <lambdabot> [[[[[[[[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]
11:25:59 <lambdabot> ] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]]] -> [[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]
11:25:59 <lambdabot> -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [
11:25:59 <lambdabot> [[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]]]] -> [[[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] ->
11:25:59 <lambdabot> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[
11:26:01 <lambdabot> [222 @more lines]
11:26:11 <shachaf> @type ((((((((((((([] :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :):)
11:26:14 <lambdabot> [[[[[[[[[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]
11:26:14 <lambdabot> ]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]]] -> [[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]
11:26:14 <lambdabot> -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] ->
11:26:14 <lambdabot> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]]]] -> [[[[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] ->
11:26:14 <lambdabot> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]]] -> [[[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]] -> [[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[[a]] -> [[a]]]]] -> [[[[[a]] -> [[a]]] -> [[
11:26:16 <lambdabot> [449 @more lines]
11:26:18 <Deewiant> ais523_: But "E\n#include __FILE__" is hard to beat if it's infinite in some compiler (except by naming the file something shorter than _FILE_)
11:26:19 <shachaf> etc.
11:26:25 <shachaf> Too much spam, sorry.
11:26:44 <ais523_> Deewiant: hmm, yes
11:26:55 <ais523_> that could compete quite well with the zero-byte input that someone gave as a joke
11:27:14 <shachaf> haskell/06.02.26:10:01:08 <lambdabot> [131068 @more lines]
11:27:35 <ais523_> shachaf: hmm, now to make that into an error message
11:27:50 <ais523_> also
11:28:02 <ais523_> :t ((0:):)
11:28:03 <lambdabot> Num a => [[a] -> [a]] -> [[a] -> [a]]
11:28:18 <ais523_> ah, right, I see
11:28:22 <ais523_> it saves one character in the program
11:28:44 <ais523_> but the message is shorter because it factors out the type requirement
11:28:50 <shachaf> @ty (('a':))
11:28:51 <lambdabot> [Char] -> [Char]
11:28:52 <elliott> shachaf: what query?
11:28:53 <shachaf> @ty (('a':):)
11:28:54 <lambdabot> [[Char] -> [Char]] -> [[Char] -> [Char]]
11:28:58 <shachaf> elliott: The one I gave.
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11:29:07 <elliott> I mean the 131068 @more
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11:29:15 <shachaf> The one I gave.
11:29:17 <shachaf> @ty (("":):)
11:29:19 <lambdabot> [[[Char]] -> [[Char]]] -> [[[Char]] -> [[Char]]]
11:29:25 <elliott> ah
11:29:26 <ais523_> > ((([]:):):) + 1
11:29:27 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Num.Num
11:29:27 <lambdabot> [[[[a0]] -> [[a0]]] -> [[[...
11:29:39 <ais523_> hey, that ... is cheating
11:30:05 <ais523_> also insufficiently Unicode
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11:30:19 <shachaf> > ((((("":):):):):)""
11:30:21 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[[[[[GHC.Types.Char]]
11:30:21 <lambdabot> ...
11:30:36 <shachaf> @ty ((((("":):):):):)""
11:30:38 <lambdabot> Couldn't match expected type `[[[[[Char]] -> [[Char]]]
11:30:38 <lambdabot> -> [[[Char]] -> [[Char]]]]
11:30:38 <lambdabot> -> [[[[Char]] -> [[Char]]] -> [[[Char]] -> [[Char]]]]]
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11:45:19 <Jafet> @ty ((((( :) :) :) :) :)
11:45:20 <lambdabot> [[[[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]] -> [[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]]] -> [[[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]] -> [[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]]]] -> [[[[a -> [a] -> [
11:45:20 <lambdabot> a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]] -> [[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]]] -> [[[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]] -> [[a -> [a] -> [a]] -> [a -> [a] -> [a]]]]]
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12:59:31 <boily> ~fortune
12:59:32 <lambdabot> boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
12:59:32 <metasepia> 2.3.1 has been released. Folks new to this game should remember that
12:59:32 <metasepia> 2.3.* releases are development kernels, with no guarantees that they
12:59:32 <metasepia> will not cause your system to do horrible things like corrupt its
12:59:32 <metasepia> disks, catch fire, or start running Mindcraft benchmarks.
12:59:32 <metasepia> -- Slashdot
13:00:55 <boily> @tell Koen__ désolé, je suis tombé sur le pays d'à côté.
13:00:55 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:27:00 <Phantom_Hoover> Oh god, Stephen Moffat is Scottish.
13:27:44 <Phantom_Hoover> I can't... insult him for being English now
13:28:06 <ais523_> Phantom_Hoover: but you don't insult people for being English very often
13:28:27 <Phantom_Hoover> ais523_, what makes you think that you english piece of shit
13:29:44 <ais523_> Phantom_Hoover: and when you do it doesn't work
13:30:07 <Phantom_Hoover> ENGLISH LIES
13:58:29 <ais523_> idea I just had: automated Turing Test judge
13:58:41 <ais523_> that is, instead of a human and a computer both trying to convince a human that they're human
13:58:50 <ais523_> the human and computer each try to convinced a computer that they're human
13:59:15 <ais523_> actually, that's what a CAPTCHA is, isn't it?
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14:18:31 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
14:19:19 <elliott> the real question is whether turing could pass a captcha....... deep thoughts
14:19:49 <Phantom_Hoover> imo no
14:20:08 <Phantom_Hoover> good thing the germans never worked that out
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14:32:58 <AnotherTest> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:2D-Reverse I don't really see why it can't be turing complete
14:34:14 <AnotherTest> I don't see how you can "only store 4 values" really
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15:38:49 <FreeFull> Phantom_Hoover: I'm Polish
15:38:51 <FreeFull> Insult me
15:39:11 <Phantom_Hoover> what are you even good for
15:39:17 <Phantom_Hoover> being put on shoes, that's what
15:39:33 <FreeFull> Wrong kind of polish =P
15:42:15 <boily> `quote you suck
15:42:18 <HackEgo> No output.
15:42:26 <boily> `pastlogs you suck
15:42:28 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found
15:43:07 <boily> argh! I need a proof that I'm a sucker! I ain't let nobody sweep me off that illustrious position!
15:51:00 <fizzie> AnotherTest: "it has to be able to store an arbitrary number of VARIABLES, not only be able to store an infinite number of different values" I don't understand it.
15:51:37 <fizzie> AnotherTest: As far as I can tell, he'd argue brainfuck is not T-complete because it can only "store" one "variable".
15:53:06 <AnotherTest> So with variable, he means the infinite array I suppose?
15:53:26 <AnotherTest> I don't see why you would need an infinite amount of infinite arrays though
15:53:42 <fizzie> I think what the pointer is currently pointing at.
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16:16:30 <coppro> elliott: can i have a trading care of you?
16:29:32 <nooodl> elliott's asleep
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17:08:19 * Lymia nyan
17:09:23 <fizzie> Nuance.
17:09:28 <hagb4rd> `relcome Lymia
17:09:32 <HackEgo> Lymia: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:09:42 * Lymia blink blink
17:10:10 <fizzie> That's quite the unrainbowy set of random colors.
17:13:30 -!- Bike has joined.
17:16:24 <boily> ~duck unrainbow
17:16:25 <metasepia> --- No relevant information
17:16:36 <boily> btw, what sound does a cuttlefish make?
17:20:11 <tswett> Sgeo_: hey, so you know Agora's trading card game?
17:20:19 <tswett> Could I get some Sgeo trading cards off you?
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17:33:26 <Taneb> elliott, what's that thingy with the terrifying and the holes
17:33:26 <lambdabot> Taneb: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
17:36:44 <boily> Taneb: o hai! I think I needed to apply kinetic energy on you with a blunt object, but I can't remember why.
17:37:11 <Taneb> I'm kinda tipsy, now isn't a great time
17:38:25 <boily> oh. I'll wait for the completion of your stat debuff and then apply bluntness in a delicate and polite manner.
17:39:20 <Taneb> Tipsiness also includes a buff to pain resistance
17:39:32 <Taneb> So I wouldn't be taking the full force
17:39:36 <Taneb> Which isn't really fair
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17:53:11 <cpressey> hello!
17:53:18 <Taneb> Hi, cpressey!
17:53:31 <Taneb> ...are you the real cpressey?
17:53:49 <cpressey> yes, usually.
17:53:56 <Taneb> Wow
17:54:04 <Taneb> It feels like I'm meeting a celebrity
17:54:32 <Taneb> Except this time, I had heard of him earlier than the day I met him
17:54:38 <cpressey> i'm not a celebrity, i'm just old :)
17:55:50 <Taneb> Yeah, Befunge is older than me :/
17:56:34 <AnotherTest> Worse: Taneb is older than me
17:58:05 <Taneb> cpressey, so what have you been up to recently?
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18:04:16 <cpressey> Taneb: (plz excuse me if i don't respond in rt, i'm apt to get pulled afk) not a lot, esolang-wise. things are fairly unusual for me right now. as usual. (which makes no sense, of course)
18:04:23 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover!
18:04:42 <Phantom_Hoover> cpressey!!!!!
18:04:46 <Phantom_Hoover> it has been too long
18:04:50 <Taneb> cpressey, have you been reading Phantom_Hoover's Tumblr?
18:04:53 <Phantom_Hoover> the hole in my soul is filled
18:05:04 <boily> I think cpressey's a ghost. His IP is deep in the middle of a black zone from RIPE: http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/hilbert/index.html
18:05:15 <AnotherTest> this is like gandalf meeting elrond (relatively speaking of course)
18:05:32 <Phantom_Hoover> what
18:08:05 <Taneb> AnotherTest, I'm pretty sure Phantom_Hoover is neither Gandalf nor Elrond
18:08:17 <Phantom_Hoover> are you comparing me to a fucking elf
18:08:18 <Taneb> If cpressey met David Morgan-Mar, that would be fun
18:11:25 <AnotherTest> Phantum_Hoover: no, elrond is the oldest
18:12:07 <Taneb> I'm pretty sure Gandalf was older than Elrond
18:12:49 <AnotherTest> Really?
18:12:53 <AnotherTest> That seems unlikely
18:13:05 <AnotherTest> We need a third party... wikipedia!
18:13:46 <fizzie> I'm pretty sure about that too.
18:14:04 <AnotherTest> wel I just ddg'd aga of gandalf
18:14:08 <Taneb> Yeah, Gandalf predates Middle Earth
18:14:10 <Bike> it's impolite to ask a wizard his age
18:14:10 <lambdabot> Bike: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
18:14:27 <AnotherTest> http://www.thetolkienforum.com/showthread.php?9430-Gandalf-s-age
18:14:39 <cpressey> Phantom_Hoover: i'm tempted to attribute that to the law of conservation of holes in souls. should i be reading your tumblr?
18:14:58 <fizzie> "-- has the strength of a grown man like physical wise and junk --"
18:14:59 <AnotherTest> aha
18:15:01 <fizzie> Best thread, I'm sure.
18:15:09 <AnotherTest> I have proof
18:15:24 <fizzie> Anyway, "has been on Middle-Earth" != his age.
18:15:26 <AnotherTest> "I was there three thousand years ago, when the strength of Men failed." - Elrond, The Fellowship of the Ring
18:15:45 <Bike> yo y'all are fuckin nerds jst fyi
18:16:01 <AnotherTest> "I remember doing the math on a thread long ago, and he is 2021 years old. He came into Middle Earth as Gandalf 1000years into the 1st age, i think, and he lived till the end of the third, or remained Gandalf until the end of the third. 2021 years "
18:16:06 <fizzie> Yes, and Gandalf was presumably there before Arda was founded. Unless, I guess, they were making new maiar or however those things get created.
18:16:09 <AnotherTest> Elrond is definitely older.
18:16:20 <fizzie> AnotherTest: He *came into Middle Earth* then. That's not his age.
18:16:36 <AnotherTest> fizzie: the same is true for the elves though, afaik
18:16:39 <cpressey> Mary Poppins is supposed to be "as old as the Earth". Trump card, I think.
18:16:56 <fizzie> AnotherTest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf "In Valinor, Gandalf was known as Olórin.[1] As recounted in the "Valaquenta" in The Silmarillion,[19] he was one of the Maiar of Valinor, specifically, of the people of the Vala Manwë --"
18:17:14 <fizzie> Most of Valaquenta predates elves in general.
18:17:29 <AnotherTest> about elrond: "He was born in the refuge of the Havens of Sirion in Beleriand late in the First Age,"
18:17:42 <fizzie> Yes, so he most definitely doesn't predate elves.
18:19:14 <fizzie> AnotherTest: "With the Valar came other spirits whose being also began before the World, of the same order as the Valar but of less degree. These are the Maiar, the people of the Valar, -- Wisest of the Maiar was Olórin." --Silmarillion.
18:19:20 <fizzie> AnotherTest: So "before the World".
18:19:54 <cpressey> NaN
18:23:12 <AnotherTest> Alright maybe this was more like Gandalf meeting Tom Bombadil
18:23:26 <AnotherTest> although I'm not sure about his age either
18:23:59 <fizzie> Tom's called "Eldest", but I've seen some Tolkien newsgroup people saying he's exactly as old as Arda and not older.
18:24:09 <Taneb> AnotherTest, Phantom_Hoover is not that old?
18:24:09 <fizzie> He's older than Elrond too, incidentally. :p
18:24:39 <Taneb> kmc, have you followed me on Twitter?
18:24:49 <kmc> i think so
18:25:00 <Taneb> Because I pretty much never use Twitter
18:25:11 <fizzie> ("Mark my words, my friends: Tom was here before the river and the trees; Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn. He made paths before the Big People, and saw the little People arriving. He was here before the Kings and the graves and the Barrow-wights. When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already, before the seas were bent. He knew the dark under the stars when it was ...
18:25:13 <AnotherTest> fizzie: OK. This was Bilbo meeting Gandalf?
18:25:16 <fizzie> ... fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.'")
18:25:36 <fizzie> I didn't read what the original context was, actually. :p
18:26:20 <fizzie> (And of course that's what Tom *said*. I wouldn't trust a guy who keeps saying "ring a ding dillo" and such.)
18:27:47 <Phantom_Hoover> <fizzie> Tom's called "Eldest", but I've seen some Tolkien newsgroup people saying he's exactly as old as Arda and not older.
18:28:16 <cpressey> is Tolkein trivia competency once of the pillars of becoming the "hthiest channel of the network" perchance?
18:28:22 <cpressey> *one
18:28:24 <Phantom_Hoover> well if you believe the theory that he's iluvatar...
18:28:31 <fizzie> Phantom_Hoover: http://www.tolkiensociety.org/faq01.html#bombadil is I think what I was thinking about. It's sort of unclear.
18:29:02 <Taneb> cpressey, you'll have missed the whole hth epidemic
18:29:06 <fizzie> (It does not accept the Tom-is-Eru point of view.)
18:29:22 <AnotherTest> Taneb: aah!
18:29:26 <cpressey> Taneb: do tell. (in summary form preferably)
18:29:27 <Bike> cpressey: probably
18:29:42 <Bike> cpressey: people put "hth" all over their messages. the end
18:29:44 <fizzie> cpressey: It's about people overusing hth hth
18:30:01 <cpressey> ah i see kthx
18:30:12 <Taneb> It stands for "hope this helps" hth
18:30:29 <AnotherTest> actually it's a clear form of aah
18:30:58 <fizzie> Taneb: I thought it standed for something involving hairy toes.
18:31:05 <fizzie> Stood.
18:31:08 <Taneb> It stands for many things
18:31:08 <fizzie> Stood on a toe.
18:32:01 <boily> `? hth
18:32:03 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
18:32:29 <boily> as you can see, hth is very clear nah.
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18:33:47 <cpressey> i remember hth from 2003-ish. the Californian version was "hth hand".
18:34:13 <cpressey> "nah" as a sentence-ender on the other hand -- that seems less familiar
18:34:13 <fizzie> "Is Legolas blonde or dark?" "Another often-overlooked point is that every single elf described in person in LotR and The Hobbit, apart from the family of Elrond, is fair-haired. And they are all blonde apart from Celeborn, who is silver-haired, and Círdan who, for some unexplained reason, is old and grey." this FAQ certainly addresses the important problems of the world.
18:34:21 <Vorpal> oh hey, it is cpressey! Long time no see
18:34:38 <cpressey> halloo Vorpal
18:34:49 <AnotherTest> `? aah
18:34:51 <HackEgo> aah ambiguous acronym here
18:35:06 <AnotherTest> `? nah
18:35:08 <HackEgo> nah no ambiguity here
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18:36:14 <Vorpal> cpressey, I remember you saying once that you needed the esoteric programming languages to get away from the day to day coding at work (or something to similar effect). You were absolutely correct about that.
18:36:39 <Vorpal> Though work is still fun, there is definitely such a thing as too much C++
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18:39:33 <cpressey> Vorpal: i don't remember saying that, but yes, countering the ill effects of production programming is definitely one use for esolang, sure
18:39:40 <AnotherTest> Vorpal: there is of course also such a thing as too much brainfuck derivatives
18:41:35 <Vorpal> true
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18:43:12 <Vorpal> cpressey, so how are things going these days?
18:45:35 <cpressey> Vorpal: same old, same old; that is to say, complete chaos.
18:45:42 <Vorpal> cpressey, ah
18:46:10 <cpressey> going by my editing history of the esolangs wiki, i "discovered" Imaginary Functions, and then my brain exploded.
18:46:27 <cpressey> that was almost half a year ago, wow. time flied
18:46:40 <cpressey> *flies, *flew, whichever, take your pick
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18:46:47 <Vorpal> What is an imaginary function? I assume it is something more complex (pun originally not intended) than complex numbers?
18:47:28 <cpressey> it was something stupid, iirc. you can search the wiki for the article if you really care
18:47:57 <Vorpal> It does not want to load... Huh
18:48:11 <cpressey> but something loosely analogous to imaginary numbers, yeah
18:48:15 <cpressey> brb
18:48:16 <Vorpal> Sigh, IPv6 issues again is it?
18:48:20 <fizzie> TIL: The imaginary error function, erfi(z), is defined as -i erf (iz).
18:48:25 <Vorpal> Why does Chromium ignore /etc/gai.conf
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18:50:27 <Vorpal> cpressey, heh that is a pretty cool idea
18:50:38 <Vorpal> though more as a joke than as something that would actually work
18:50:41 <fizzie> Vorpal: They've probably monkeyed (term certainly not suggested by a recent join) around with DNS resolving, for something and profit.
18:51:23 -!- ggherdov has joined.
18:51:24 <Vorpal> fizzie, result is that when there is IPv6 issues I will get those in chromium even though I want to prefer ipv4
18:58:35 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0dHKWjXn-E i love that defense contractors make these kinds of videos
18:59:38 <kmc> apparently the Predator C has an anti ballistic missile laser capability :O
18:59:45 <Bike> lol, beautiful
19:01:07 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting).
19:01:11 -!- Bike_ has joined.
19:01:42 <Bike_> who's the target demographic of this video?
19:01:44 -!- cpressey has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
19:01:52 -!- cpressey has joined.
19:01:54 <boily> kmc: according to reddit, sqlite was created for missile guidance systems.
19:02:21 <kmc> heh
19:02:59 <Bike_> haha, the enemy radar guy
19:03:02 <Bike_> "omg, jamming??"
19:03:36 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic).
19:04:31 -!- TWal has joined.
19:05:27 <Bike_> but like, is this supposed to be a commercial given to the DoD
19:05:50 <kmc> yeah i don't know
19:05:56 <kmc> maybe it's for the people who decide what to buy and/or how much of it
19:05:57 <Taneb> Dungeons /or/ Dragons
19:05:57 <Taneb> You can no longer have both
19:06:05 <kmc> maybe it's for stockholders?
19:06:21 <Bike_> Taneb: damn budget cuts
19:06:25 <kmc> i've seen a lot of these though
19:06:27 <fizzie> Taneb: Is it written "D|D"?
19:06:44 <Bike_> kmc: i've seen this sort of thing before too and i didn't get it then either
19:07:03 <AnotherTest> fizzie: isn't | inclusive or? Sounds more like XOR too me "you can't have both"
19:07:04 <kmc> D∨D
19:07:12 <cpressey> in Canada it's the "Department of National Defence" so you can totally have both
19:07:13 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
19:07:18 <kmc> D⊕D
19:07:31 -!- abumirqaan has joined.
19:07:32 <fizzie> Advanced Dungeons xor Dragons.
19:07:33 <AnotherTest> not (d <=> d)
19:07:36 <AnotherTest> how is that
19:07:44 <fizzie> (Is that A(D^D) or (AD)^D?)
19:07:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
19:08:02 <Bike> well advanced dragons sound scary, i'm gonna stick with advanced dungeons
19:08:29 <AnotherTest> Well (not (d <=> d)) <=> d xor d if I'm not making a horrible mistake
19:08:37 <kmc> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wdjgL40wc4
19:08:43 <kmc> not the original soundtrack, sadly
19:09:20 <kmc> "Fair use for Tsar Bomba... The photograph belongs to Russian department of Atomic Energy Minatom. Introducing the picture on our server does not interfere with their ability to develop and market new nuclear devices"
19:09:21 <Bike> 'Dr. Michio Kaku Says America Has a Secret Super Weapon' thanks youtube
19:10:04 <kmc> Bike: have you played DEFCON?
19:11:36 <Bike> yes. that game is horribly depressing.
19:13:09 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
19:15:40 <Bike> also i'm really bad at it.
19:17:56 <kmc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpx/135581065/in/set-72057594117941491/lightbox/
19:19:08 <kmc> lots of good stuff in this gallery
19:19:08 <kmc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpx/135597116/in/set-72057594117941491
19:21:54 <kmc> http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpx/135857435/in/set-72057594117941491 http://www.flickr.com/photos/bpx/135857360/in/set-72057594117941491
19:22:00 <fizzie> Huh, Flickr now offers a terabyte of storage for free users? That must be new.
19:24:34 <fizzie> Also, Flickr is now "biggr", "spectaculr" and "wherevr". Well... whatevr, I guess.
19:25:58 <Bike> there was someone on github making fun of it by offering a flickr-as-FUSE
19:26:11 <Bike> kmc: haha. butt.
19:26:22 <kmc> Bike: you understand.
19:27:24 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/d965aa707ebaaab6a223094666ae1a41/tumblr_mmgd8tWpgu1r0wqrdo1_500.jpg
19:28:08 <Koen__> I'm not violent but HERE'S MY FIST IN YOUR FACE
19:28:08 <lambdabot> Koen__: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
19:28:27 <Koen__> that better not be a message about confusing paris and brussels
19:28:32 <Koen__> @message
19:28:32 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages messages?
19:28:39 <Koen__> @massages
19:28:39 <lambdabot> boily said 6h 27m 44s ago: désolé, je suis tombé sur le pays d' côté.
19:30:28 * boily whÃcks lambdabot
19:30:50 <fizzie> Whéks.
19:32:03 <fizzie> Settlers of côté, the mojibake boardgame.
19:34:44 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130524-biggr.png nice slider.
19:38:08 <Vorpal> Hm can you do private photos on flickr?
19:38:23 <Vorpal> If so you could use that as a backup service, encoding data in photos
19:39:03 <fizzie> I don't think you can. Though if you trust your encryption, privateness shouldn't matter.
19:39:16 <fizzie> (I'd assume the Flickr FUSE thing does encryption?)
19:39:33 <fizzie> Might easily be against their TOS, of course.
19:39:40 <Vorpal> Flicker fuse thing? That sounds cool
19:40:57 <fizzie> There's a couple "serious" Flickr FUSE things that are actually about managing your visible photos.
19:41:12 <fizzie> But I gather the thing Bike mentioned wasn't like that?
19:42:36 <kmc> it should do encryption and authentication/integrity
19:42:59 <fizzie> The ones (for arbitrary data) I can find offhand don't seem to be FUSE modules. But I'm sure that's out there too.
19:43:33 <fizzie> Also they seem to just put the data into a tEXt PNG chunk.
19:44:16 <kmc> heh
19:48:22 <fizzie> Huh, my fcolor thing still hasn't bitrotted away.
19:48:48 <fizzie> Though for some reason two first images when I told it to search for the color of love were of insects copulating.
19:49:08 <fizzie> (It uses the "sort by relevance" criterion, so... that makes sense?)
19:49:21 <fizzie> So far, love seems kind of brown.
19:52:48 <cpressey> it seems likely that some insects would change colour when they're, um, in love
19:53:53 <fizzie> The search term was just "love", though.
19:57:53 <Vorpal> fizzie, "tEXt"?
19:57:59 <Vorpal> That is a weird casing
19:58:20 <fizzie> Vorpal: I think the case of at least the first letter has semantics.
19:58:30 <Vorpal> Heh
19:58:31 <fizzie> Uppercase for mandatory and lowercase for optional chunks, or something like that.
19:58:38 <Vorpal> ah
19:59:07 <kmc> all four do iirc
19:59:10 <fizzie> Yes, all of them do.
19:59:42 <kmc> so that even for unrecognized chunk types, you know if it's safe to ignore them and strip them when saving and such
19:59:43 <fizzie> Well, the third is arguable.
19:59:51 <fizzie> First one is the critical/ancillary (aka mandatory/optional) bit; second is public/private; third is reserved for future extension; and fourth is the safe-to-copy bit.
20:00:07 <Vorpal> brb
20:00:30 <fizzie> So tEXt is ancillary (not strictly necessary for meaningful display of the image), public (defined by the standard), and safe to copy.
20:00:53 <fizzie> (The reserved letter is always uppercase for the standard chunks.)
20:01:05 <kmc> PNG format is... interesting
20:01:16 <kmc> it's one of those formats which has both big and little endian parts :<
20:01:26 <kmc> http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/04/minimal-encoder-for-uncompressed-pngs.html
20:01:40 <fizzie> Also the readme of that tool said it's stored as tEXt (uncompressed textual data) and not zTXt (compressed text) because the library it used didn't support the latter.
20:02:12 <kmc> PNG has lots of potential for steganographic information hiding
20:02:47 <kmc> for example the breaks between IDAT chunks can occur anywhere within the zlib stream
20:02:55 <kmc> and of course there are many ways to zlib-compress the same bytes as wel
20:03:23 <kmc> and you can also encode a few bits per line in the choice of 'filter' functions
20:08:03 <Vorpal> fizzie, hm so what does "safe to copy" mean?
20:22:15 <kmc> if you're editing a PNG and don't recognize this chunk, you can copy it verbatim to the output file
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20:48:33 <nooodl_> this factorial-less proof i wrote of pascal's formula is pretty cute: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/pascal.pdf
20:49:13 <nooodl_> using colors in latex-y documents feels very... unprofessional... but it's so cleeear
20:50:07 <kmc> looks nice
20:50:36 <fizzie> I shewed this slide https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130325-colorslide.png the other day (well, the other month)
20:50:54 <fizzie> It's also a LaTeX-y document, though I suppose using colors in a beamer slideset is far less unprofessional.
20:51:22 <nooodl_> fizzie: that one looks like colorblind hell
20:51:50 <fizzie> It's just them groupings.
20:52:06 <fizzie> See, the betas that are violet are both blue and red at the same time SO DEEP
20:52:32 <nooodl_> ooh. i see
20:53:06 <nooodl_> man, is "x choose (-1) = 0" even a thing? wolfram alpha agrees, my ti-84 doesn't
20:53:35 <kmc> back in my day we didn't have ti-84
20:53:51 <fizzie> kmc: Did your slide rules do binomial coefficients?
20:54:47 <kmc> haha
20:54:51 <nooodl_> i mean sure, it's impossible to pick -1 elements out of any collection. but contrary to stuff like "n choose k = 0 if k > n", this situation doesn't even make sense
20:55:22 <kmc> i guess those things are usually set in order to make some identities hold
20:55:55 <kmc> is there a relevant identity here
20:56:27 <nooodl_> i guess you could say, from that rule i proved, \binom{n+1}{0} = \binom{n}{0} + \binom{n}{-1}
20:56:29 <cpressey> if it's impossible, then there are zero ways to do it, right?
20:56:51 <nooodl_> so 1 = 1 + \binom{n}{-1}, so it's 0
20:57:37 <nooodl_> cpressey: well the thing that bugs me about making up rules about negative binomial coefficients is
20:58:19 <nooodl_> \binom{4}{sqrt(2)+i} is also "impossible" but it's definitely not 0
20:58:45 <kmc> that's a type error
20:58:49 <nooodl_> yeah
20:58:53 <nooodl_> i feel like -1 should be, too
20:58:58 <kmc> mebbe
20:59:10 <kmc> \binom{4}{banana}
20:59:20 <kmc> \binom{4}{☭}
20:59:24 <nooodl_> wow what the hell, i was considering exactly that example
20:59:28 <nooodl_> \binom{4}{banana}
20:59:49 <kmc> haha
20:59:53 <kmc> banana is the most random fruit
21:00:02 <kmc> just like 37 is the most random number in [1,100]
21:01:13 <nooodl_> the most random number in [1,10] is either 7 or 3.14159265, depending on level of smart-assery
21:03:43 <kmc> but π isn't proven to be normal
21:03:56 <kmc> the most random number in [1,10] should be some number constructed to be provably normal
21:04:10 <Vorpal> <kmc> \binom{4}{☭} <-- what is that blurry symbol?
21:04:11 <shachaf> imo the most random number in [1,10] should be uncomputable
21:04:24 <nooodl_> a hammer and sickle Vorpal
21:04:32 <Vorpal> ah
21:04:44 <shachaf> G'meegan
21:04:49 <nooodl_> shachaf: imo they're all equally random?
21:04:52 <Bike> oh, i thought you were thinking sociologically. like that study finding that most people picked 17 as random in [1,20]
21:04:55 <cpressey> in soviet russia, random number chooses YOU
21:04:56 <Vorpal> nooodl_, really blurry in 8 pt dejavu sans mono
21:05:14 <shachaf> Bike: You should know by now that people are thinking more than one thing.
21:05:14 <fizzie> The Copeland–Erdős constant plus 1? (I guess you can freely select the initial digits?)
21:05:15 <nooodl_> Bike: we were at first but then #esoteric kicked in
21:05:15 <Vorpal> On a 96 dpi monitor that is
21:05:46 <Bike> shachaf: that sounds hard.
21:05:53 <Vorpal> I wonder how long it takes until we get 300+ dpi desktop monitors
21:05:59 <Vorpal> or at least 200+
21:06:10 <fizzie> Almost all numbers in [1,10] are uncomputable, so I guess it's quite probable the most random number is too?
21:06:19 <Vorpal> And I'm sure there is some super-expensive specialist one already
21:06:20 <nooodl_> reasons people run these studies: - they wanna win at "guess which number i'm thinking of"
21:06:33 <shachaf> fizzie: If you pick a number in [1,10] randomly, it's uncomputable with probability 1.
21:06:45 <shachaf> So it's completely certain.
21:06:47 <kmc> hichaf
21:07:21 <fizzie> Okay I picked 1 I guess 1 is uncomputable then oh well sucks to be 1.
21:07:46 <shachaf> you didn't pick randomly enough sorry
21:07:57 <fizzie> Okay okay I pick 7 I hear it's random.
21:07:57 <shachaf> better luck next time
21:08:08 <shachaf> fizzie: you should +v me
21:08:12 <Vorpal> 4 is random, by fair dice roll according to xkcd
21:08:43 <shachaf> whoa dude i bet kmc was making a subtle xkcd reference
21:08:49 <kmc> ;_;
21:09:21 <Bike> subtlety? in esoteric?
21:09:46 <shachaf> there was subtlety there and you missed it Bike "sry"
21:11:38 <Vorpal> http://xkcd.com/1213/ <-- does that thing actually work? It surely can't test for colorblindness as it claims to since it is greyscale... And there is no big number in it...
21:11:43 <fizzie> Vorpal: I think there's some screens for like "medical use" that are something like 160-180 ppi. You don't need that high resolutions to get a high ppd (pixels per degree) at the distances you're ergonomical-standards-ly "supposed" to look at a desktop monitor from.
21:12:21 <Vorpal> fizzie, I certainly could do with a bit more than 96 though, 120-130 maybe
21:15:58 <fizzie> Perhaps someone'll start to sell a bit smaller 2560x1440 screens at some point. At 27" (those are generally available at the moment) that's 108 ppi.
21:16:01 <cpressey> Vorpal: if you insist on viewing text in an 8-point font, yes, i could see how you might want that
21:16:23 <Vorpal> wait, actually 9pt
21:16:33 <Vorpal> anyway it works fine for IRC, and for latin font
21:16:38 <Vorpal> I can read that
21:16:52 <Vorpal> Not without my glasses obviously, but I use glasses all the time anyway
21:17:06 <Vorpal> can't read a book without my glasses
21:18:47 <fizzie> Perhaps when there's enough 4K content around, someone'll make, say, a 24" (or some other such sensible desktop size) monitor where you can display some of it natively.
21:19:20 <fizzie> (3840x2160 at 24" would be 180 ppi.)
21:20:03 <Vorpal> Yeah I wouldn't mind that
21:20:36 <Vorpal> Speaking of which I plan to get some new monitors sooner rather than later
21:20:45 <Vorpal> I gotten so used to multi-monitor at work
21:20:50 <Vorpal> I need it at home too
21:20:56 <Vorpal> anyone have any recommendations?
21:21:06 <Vorpal> Thinking maybe two syncmasters or similar
21:21:22 <Vorpal> or are are any better brand that isn't super-expensive
21:21:31 <fizzie> ViewSonic has allegedly announced a 32" 3840x2160 (i.e., 140 ppi) desktop display at some point.
21:21:41 <kmc> fizzie: nice!
21:21:51 <kmc> Vorpal: what size?
21:22:14 <Vorpal> kmc, Around 22-24 or so
21:22:20 <Vorpal> 16:10
21:22:23 <Vorpal> Adjustable height
21:22:28 <kmc> get the Dell U2412M then
21:22:39 <kmc> maybe one in portrait, one in landscape
21:22:41 <kmc> i like that setup
21:22:46 <Vorpal> Okay, is the colour reproduction good on that?
21:22:56 <kmc> at my last job I had two U2412M in portrait with a U3011 between them...
21:22:57 <Vorpal> Also I prefer to have a rectangular desktop
21:23:04 <fizzie> And LG had a 30" panel of that resolution at some trade show, according to interwebs.
21:23:15 <kmc> color reproduction is supposed to be good... it's an IPS panel and it's Dell's UltraSharp line, which is their high end line
21:23:24 <kmc> i never like measured it
21:23:29 <Vorpal> 30" is too big, won't fit
21:23:31 <kmc> it's not factory color calibrated like the U3011
21:23:38 <Vorpal> Okay, so what does it cost... lets see
21:23:40 <fizzie> kmc: And nobody complained that setup reminds people of the Two Towers and is therefore insensitive workplace behaviour?
21:23:45 <kmc> haha
21:23:56 <kmc> it's just one huge wall of monitors
21:24:13 <Vorpal> About 2000 SEK, okay. Somewhat expensive but oka
21:24:28 <kmc> yeah that's about what I paid
21:24:31 <kmc> except you know in USD
21:24:38 <Vorpal> right
21:24:45 <kmc> a lot of electronics is weirdly expensive in Europe
21:24:54 <kmc> like computers will cost as many £ in UK as they cost $ here
21:24:55 <Vorpal> kmc, U3011 and U2412M? How do they differ?
21:24:58 <Vorpal> What does the M mean
21:25:04 <Vorpal> kmc, higher VAT I guess?
21:25:20 <kmc> U3011 is a 30" monitor, a slightly older line (there's a new model now)
21:25:30 <Vorpal> Ah
21:25:31 <kmc> and as it's older, it has a CFL backlight rather than LED
21:25:43 <Vorpal> Does it have displayport?
21:25:50 <kmc> i think the M means that it's an E-IPS rather than H-IPS monitor
21:25:54 <Vorpal> the 24" one I mean
21:26:05 <Vorpal> also what is the difference between E-IPS and H-IPS?
21:26:08 <fizzie> Someone else somewhere recommended something that I think sounded like U2412M too, FWIW. (High praise.)
21:26:19 <fizzie> It was Dell and 24", at least.
21:26:39 <kmc> which means cheaper but somewhat smaller viewing angles etc
21:26:54 <Vorpal> I should check what my Dell at work is
21:26:58 <Vorpal> it is a pretty good one too
21:27:00 <kmc> i have no complaints with the viewing angle though, even in portrait mode
21:27:10 <Koen__> this discussion would be so sexy if you were talking about cars
21:27:15 <kmc> fuck cars
21:27:17 <Vorpal> I have a weird combo of one syncmaster, one dell + built in laptop display
21:27:22 <Vorpal> (the laptop is also a dell)
21:27:38 <Koen__> well polyvalent cars, really
21:27:40 <kmc> there's a more expensive H-IPS 24" ultrasharp too
21:27:47 <Vorpal> Koen__, who cares about cars? Monitors are far more interesting, and also cheaper
21:28:09 <Koen__> who cares about cars who monitors monitors
21:28:28 <Vorpal> kmc, nope, 2000 SEK / monitor is definitely on the upper end of the range for me
21:28:37 <kmc> it's also a lot harder to kill someone with a monitor
21:28:52 <Koen__> may be so, but you can do it indoors
21:29:15 <fizzie> Apparently my work screen is an "FUS P24W-6 LED", whatever that means.
21:29:22 <fizzie> I think FUS stands for Fujitsu here.
21:29:22 <Vorpal> Koen__, I'm getting a small second hand Kia soon. 10 years old, but mileage is very low, since it has been used as a summer car by an old relative.
21:29:57 <Vorpal> I think it was like less than 1200 Swedish miles (1 Swedish mile = 10 km)
21:30:04 <fizzie> Vorpal: Sexiest car ever, I'm sure.
21:30:10 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah
21:30:10 <kmc> swedish miles really
21:30:15 <Vorpal> kmc, quite so
21:30:22 <kmc> oh singular 'mil'
21:30:29 <Vorpal> kmc, Or Scandinavian perhaps
21:30:38 <Koen__> so hmm what kind of kia?
21:30:54 <kmc> i'm used to a mil being 0.001 in
21:31:07 <fizzie> I'm renting a CAR this June, it's prepaid and all.
21:31:09 <Vorpal> Koen__, don't remember, it works, has an AC and a electric engine heater. What more do you need?
21:31:14 <fizzie> I think it's the kind of car that it'll have four wheels.
21:31:15 <Vorpal> It is not like it is a monitor
21:31:35 <Vorpal> kmc, heh
21:32:40 <Koen__> I don't like air conditionning
21:32:53 <kmc> lol electric engine heater, do parking spots in .se have outlets to plug those in?
21:32:56 <kmc> i saw those in alaska
21:32:57 <fizzie> Apparently the car will be a "Ford Fiesta or equivalent". I don't know, I picked the cheapest one with AC. (Even in Finland there's sometimes hot summer days.)
21:33:32 <Vorpal> kmc, Well, at home and at work yes usually
21:33:37 <fizzie> kmc: "Residential" parking slots, the kind you pay a monthly fee for, here pretty much all have those.
21:33:42 <Vorpal> kmc, not at supermarkets and such unless you are way up north
21:33:50 <kmc> i guess you aren't parked as long there
21:34:03 <kmc> must suck if you leave your car at the pub overnight
21:34:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, well for me, I park at the garage driveway probably
21:34:25 <Vorpal> Since there is no space in the garage
21:34:36 <fizzie> I think the parking place fee at our apartment building is something like 10-20 eur/month.
21:34:46 <Koen__> there's no space in the garage cause it's full of monitors
21:34:55 <kmc> parking spots in manhattan cost as much as studio apartments
21:35:02 <fizzie> It might've been a different price for the places with a roof than those on top of it.
21:35:05 <kmc> and the apartments are not a lot bigger
21:35:10 <kmc> so it makes sense really
21:36:31 <fizzie> kmc: Do you know if Berkeley is a nice place? There's a (smallish) chance I might migrate thataway (after graduating) for a year or so.
21:36:46 <kmc> it seems pretty nice
21:36:54 <Vorpal> <Koen__> there's no space in the garage cause it's full of monitors <-- no but my parents car is there, and it isn't a two-car garrage
21:36:58 <Vorpal> garage*
21:37:03 <kmc> i don't have that much experience with Berkeley
21:37:09 <kmc> I like the SF bay area in general, and I'm going to move there soon
21:37:16 <shachaf> fizzie: Berkeley is nice.
21:37:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: You should invest in one of those robot car tower things.
21:38:01 <shachaf> Not that I've lived there. But I've visited friends there and I like going there.
21:38:01 <kmc> "Berkeley has one of the highest rates of bicycle and pedestrian commuting in the nation. Berkeley is the safest city of its size in California for pedestrians and cyclists, considering the number of injuries per pedestrian and cyclist, rather than per capita"
21:38:02 <Vorpal> fizzie, what do you mean?
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21:38:05 <kmc> woo
21:38:15 <Koen__> Vorpal: wait, so you park your car outside just in front of the garage door? how do you parents do when they need their car?
21:38:23 <kmc> i think it's pretty expensive to live in Berkeley proper
21:38:39 <Vorpal> Koen__, we would obviously schedule it so that the next car out is the one outmost
21:38:57 <kmc> but it's connected to BART and you could easily live in Oakland or Richmond instead
21:38:59 <fizzie> Vorpal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vr7ofPTpcM that kind of thing.
21:39:06 <kmc> but these places are a lot less nice
21:39:36 <Vorpal> Koen__, besides there is enough area in front of the garage for a car to pass another parked to the side, since it was originally a two car garage but was rebuilt in the 60s (way before we moved here) to have a isolated inner area in one half
21:39:50 <Vorpal> To put various stuff in during the winter
21:39:57 <Vorpal> (it is a non-heated garage)
21:40:16 <Koen__> various stuff that includes monitors?
21:40:38 <fizzie> One of the hotels for our upcoming summer trip has a "completely automatized" garage -- http://www.hotel-luganodante.com/en/Technical_Information_Our_Garage -- not that we're going to be driving a car or anything.
21:40:59 <fizzie> It's not terribly clear what "completely automatized" means.
21:41:07 <Vorpal> Koen__, no, extra freezer, the home grown potatos and other stuff
21:41:31 <Vorpal> No monitors were harmed in the building of this area
21:41:34 <fizzie> Vorpal: The home-grown monitors.
21:41:38 <Koen__> hmmm
21:41:40 <fizzie> Monitor lizards, that is.
21:41:46 <Vorpal> XD
21:42:00 <Koen__> but there's a thermometer in the freezer right? with a MONITOR to display the temperature?
21:42:09 <Vorpal> fizzie, "Sorry! There was an error. We will fix it as soon as possible. back to home"
21:42:13 <Vorpal> fizzie, useless link
21:42:24 <fizzie> Vorpal: It works if you navigate there manually.
21:42:29 <Vorpal> oh god
21:42:31 <fizzie> HOTEL -> Garage.
21:42:39 <fizzie> I guess they check referer or something equally silly.
21:43:04 <fizzie> Apparently not.
21:43:19 <fizzie> Well, maybe it relies in some sort of a session cookie, which would be even sillier.
21:43:25 -!- TWal has quit (Quit: Bye).
21:43:29 <fizzie> Since the direct links work now that I've visited the front page.
21:43:34 <Vorpal> haha
21:43:41 -!- cpressey has joined.
21:43:51 <Vorpal> I think they fail at English
21:44:04 <Vorpal> Or have a very weird relationship to cars
21:44:25 <Vorpal> Calling it a "truthful companion" rather than "trusted" or similar for a start
21:44:28 <kmc> fizzie: what would you do in Berkeley
21:44:49 <shachaf> berk hth
21:44:58 <Phantom_Hoover> what happened to cpressey
21:45:09 <Phantom_Hoover> one moment i was celebrating his return and now vorpal's being allowed to talk
21:45:14 <shachaf> `welcome cpressey
21:45:16 <HackEgo> cpressey: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:45:18 <cpressey> i'm here i'm here
21:45:30 <fizzie> kmc: Our place has some sort of a ongoing reciprocal exchange thing with http://www.icsi.berkeley.edu/icsi/ -- my supervisor just came back from there a week ago.
21:45:43 <kmc> cool
21:46:06 <kmc> berkeley CS is supposed to be pretty good
21:46:30 <cpressey> yeah, that's what they say
21:46:46 <kmc> i mean I've heard complaints from undergrads that the program has been dumbed down in recent years
21:46:49 <kmc> but I hear that about everywhere
21:47:00 <kmc> and it doesn't say anything about the grad programs
21:47:09 <fizzie> There's also (allegedly, from travel reports) lots of esteemed guests at that ICSI side, so (again allegedly) one gets to meet a lot of people.
21:47:15 <kmc> nice
21:47:39 <kmc> it's weird to me that Caltech is #11 in grad CS given how tiny and incomplete our CS dept was
21:47:53 <kmc> but I guess for grad school you already know going in if that school does the particular stuff you want to do
21:48:07 <kmc> if you want to study quantum computing it's probably one of the best places
21:49:45 <kmc> I think some of the complaints about the dumbing down of undergrad CS are sort of reactionary elitism that insists on teaching things that are irrelevant to most developers
21:50:04 <kmc> otoh CS shouldn't be just a vocational program, especially at top schools
21:50:16 <kmc> so i dunno
21:52:01 <fizzie> There's certainly a sense of dumbing-down of undergrad CS at our place too.
21:52:19 <cpressey> well, since the only hard things in CS are naming things and cache coherency (or so I'm told), the bar is pretty low.
21:52:51 <Bike> Naming things is pretty hard, judging by how shittily most software is named
21:53:19 <fizzie> If you pronounce the true name of a program, you can control it, isn't that how it works?
21:53:44 <Vorpal> cpressey, also off by one errors
21:54:11 <cpressey> Vorpal: you're not allowed to "also" that one-liner -- i've tried, it doesn't work
21:54:24 <cpressey> "also the rest of CS"
21:54:48 <Vorpal> cpressey, the joke goes "there are only two hard things in CS: naming things, cache coherency and off by one errors"
21:55:08 <fizzie> If you write your name in the "I did my homework for the extra exam points" list of the Introduction to Theoretical Computer Science course with a pink glitter pen, you *will* be "randomly" picked to present one of the problems on the blackboard. (Empirical fact.)
21:55:09 <shachaf> *A* joke goes that way. Not the one cpressey made.
21:55:12 <Vorpal> cpressey, at least that is the variant I have heard
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21:55:31 <cpressey> oh ha ha
21:55:37 * Bike adds "jokes" to the list of hard things in CS
21:55:53 <Vorpal> Bike, touché
21:55:57 <kmc> fizzie: hehe
21:56:12 <shachaf> bicycles are also hard things in cs
21:56:25 <Taneb> Why did the computer scientist travel a thousand miles with dodgy brakes?
21:56:29 <fizzie> (N=10 empirical fact, even.)
21:56:32 <Bike> nah, there was a solution to the n-people k-bikes problem in the last sigbovik
21:56:39 <Taneb> They broke early on then he couldn't solve the halting problem.
21:56:40 <Bike> more than nine empirical? damn
21:57:03 <cpressey> Taneb: that's terrible
21:57:10 <shachaf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Sieve_of_Eratosthenes
21:57:13 <shachaf> good Referer
21:57:17 <Vorpal> cpressey, terrible but funny
21:57:29 <kmc> shachaf?
21:58:11 <shachaf> kmc?
21:58:31 <Bike> franz boas?
21:58:55 <kmc> baller order abstract syntax
22:00:33 <Bike> ye
22:02:23 <Vorpal> kmc, I somehow read that as Balmer, as in the Microsoft guy
22:02:30 <Vorpal> Ballmer even
22:02:39 <Vorpal> it seems
22:02:49 <Vorpal> well I read it as Balmer and I thought that was how he spelled his name
22:03:17 <kmc> i know someone who was recruited by Microsoft and got a personal phone call from Ballmer
22:03:29 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds).
22:03:47 <cpressey> "Hello?" "Developers! Developers! Developers!"
22:03:51 <kmc> fresh out of college
22:03:56 <kmc> haha
22:04:08 <Vorpal> haha
22:04:28 <fizzie> Vorpal: Also re the display thing, maybe you could buy a 15.4" MacBook Pro, fashion a stand out of the computer bits and wire the panel to a graphics card, and then you'll have a 15.4" 2880x1800 (220 ppi) desktop monitor. (Practical.)
22:05:04 <Vorpal> fizzie, I would have to buy several to create a small video wall or something
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22:08:24 <Vorpal> Night
22:08:33 -!- Taneb has joined.
22:10:09 <kmc> 'night
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22:14:16 -!- trout has changed nick to Guest14029.
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22:46:24 <fizzie> Predicted program for tomorrow: wake early, bicyclize for half an hour to get to the university to fetch a forgotten tablet, realize that someone has screwed up programming the keycard and/or weekend access requires the PIN code I've forgotten, mutter curses for a while, waste another half an hour getting back.
22:48:30 <kmc> :(
22:48:44 <kmc> are there not enough people around on weekends to get in another way?
22:49:14 <fizzie> I don't know, I haven't tried very often.
22:49:39 <kmc> one time to turn in last minute homework, I had to climb two stories down a rebar ladder in a pitch black ventilation shaft to break into the stairwell
22:49:59 <fizzie> At least the inner doors probably won't ask for the PIN, since they don't need keypads, so maybe it's enough if someone else happens to be going in/out.
22:50:17 <fizzie> Er, s/need/have/.
22:50:20 <kmc> steam tunnels were also useful for this purpose
22:52:18 <fizzie> I don't know if I want to do any especially impressive breaking-and-entering, given that it's not like I couldn't just wait until Monday.
23:08:26 <kmc> college is about finding excuses for impressive breaking-and-entering
23:11:54 -!- quintopia has joined.
23:23:05 <Sgeo_> I found a language I hate more than Java or PHP
23:23:18 <Bike> Tcl
23:23:31 <Sgeo_> CSS
23:24:23 <kmc> what about it?
23:25:27 <Sgeo_> Dealing with box models, divs that seem to eat margins of children despite google results suggesting they normally shouldn't, empty divs having a stylistic effect
23:27:31 <quintopia> i don't actually hate java or php. i vaguely despiser php, and am on speaking terms with java
23:27:32 <Sgeo_> Apparently Gloss (game library for Haskell) now supports arbitrary IO in games
23:27:43 <kmc> cutting edge
23:28:00 <Bike> despiser
23:28:21 <kmc> it's hard for me to actively hate Java because I think the underlying ideas are pretty reasonable
23:28:34 <Sgeo_> Someone should make a pipes thing for Gloss
23:28:37 <kmc> it's just missing some of the features you want to build a usable language around them
23:28:48 <kmc> so maybe I don't hate Java but i would hate working in Java every day
23:29:46 <quintopia> java would be great if it were smalltalk
23:29:56 <quintopia> know any good smalltalk compilers for jvm?
23:29:57 <kmc> :)
23:30:14 <Bike> smalltalk would be great if it were simula
23:33:06 <Sgeo_> quintopia, are there any Javascript interpreters/compilers in Java?
23:35:20 <quintopia> that sounds like a terrible idea
23:35:28 <quintopia> (probably)
23:36:47 <kmc> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhino_(JavaScript_engine)
23:36:49 <Sgeo_> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/1ez1ce/the_shortest_crashing_c_program/
23:36:52 <kmc> i don't see why it's a bad idea particularly
23:37:22 <Bike> Sgeo_: warning: main is usually a function
23:41:10 <kmc> on some architectures 'main;' might not crash, or only sometimes
23:48:11 <nooodl_> what if there's a valid program at *0
23:50:35 <kmc> it doesn't jump to address 0
23:51:10 <kmc> it executes machine code consisting of sizeof(int) zeros followed by whatever's next in memory
23:53:11 <kmc> actually there may be architectures where a function symbol is not located at the first instruction of the code but at some auxilary data structure
23:53:14 <kmc> maybe ia64
23:57:53 <kmc> also on a harvard architecture maybe it does something completely different and insane
23:58:18 <kmc> or maybe it's a linker error
23:59:04 <Bike> does the C standard have a provision for crashing
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