00:02:19 `words --esolangs 10 00:02:21 4dl bf-pda track rainfuck var q-bal cleaseporient suff puzzlang bit 00:02:45 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 00:03:12 kmc: you didn't tell me where the puzzle is 00:03:20 oh maybe you did 00:03:21 (bf-pda and rainfuck are of course brainfuck derivatives. Probably a couple of the others too.) 00:03:24 i tried but you can't fucking read elliott 00:03:26 jeeeeeez 00:03:27 this is true 00:03:43 "There is no i in illiterate" 00:03:53 OPH WOW 00:03:55 that pUZLE 00:04:02 elliott no 00:04:02 i almost want to get it now 00:05:20 github has syntax highlighting for brainfuck 00:05:47 omg barack actually has a klout of 98 00:05:50 ure losing barack 00:06:03 Barack's Topics: [...] Barack Obama [...] 00:06:46 kmc: Also for Befunge. ("primary_extension:.befunge"? What the.) 00:06:53 can we stop talking about that O'Bama fellow I'm fed up with all those irish people 00:07:16 Maybe it doesn't have syntax highlighting, though; but it's a "known language". 00:07:46 "All languages have an associated lexer for syntax highlighting" well then. 00:07:53 ive solvede the puzel :)) :) 00:20:43 http://suspiriadeprofundis.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Comet.jpg 00:21:15 what 00:21:49 P2P law 00:22:04 reaction 00:22:11 oh boy, this is about mencis moldbug? 00:22:18 i've heard something about neo-reactionists somewhere... 00:22:38 *u 00:22:41 wait do actually know who moldbug is 00:22:42 if so why 00:24:12 i do. i don't know why 00:24:13 do you 00:24:18 -!- tswett has changed nick to beeeeeeeeees. 00:24:38 i know that he exists in the same way brainfuck derivatives exist 00:25:02 "If you are not familiar with Mencius Moldbug he is a longwinded Jacobite writer out of New York City." 00:25:25 he, uh, supports the stuart claim to the throne? 00:25:27 Bike: have you seen the synchronicity diagram 00:25:44 mnoqy: have you seen the circuitous diagram? 00:25:51 mnoqy: i don't think so 00:26:08 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e2/Sch%C3%A9ma_synchronicit%C3%A9_in_English.png 00:26:17 Diagram illustrating concept of synchronicity by CG Jung 00:26:34 jung is the best 00:27:44 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 00:28:16 i think my first exposure to moldbug may have been via nock/urbit (http://moronlab.blogspot.co.uk/2010/01/nock-maxwells-equations-of-software.html) and then i read enough to write him off as entertainingly batshit 00:28:31 wait 00:28:33 oh shit that was him 00:28:37 oh SHIT 00:29:35 Bike: what 00:29:39 i feel unclean 00:29:43 it says right at the top that mencius didn't write it! 00:30:00 or are you speaking of something else unmentioned 00:30:06 no i mean the link 00:30:21 i remember looking at it and it had some dumbass diagram and something about WWII politics that was made up and probably racist 00:30:34 wait what diagram 00:30:35 what is "it" 00:30:41 what is "the link" 00:30:41 HELP 00:31:20 oh my god he's been doing this for years 00:31:37 ok 00:31:37 what 00:31:37 pages and pages... 00:31:39 are 00:31:39 you 00:31:40 talking 00:31:42 about 00:32:15 agh 00:32:27 just, fuck, ok 00:32:33 bike i'm going to voice and devoice you repeatedly unless you immediately offer clarification and nothing but 00:33:11 my god, it's full of pages 00:33:26 so many pages 00:33:34 Bike 00:33:37 now! 00:34:03 no 00:34:05 i'm too unclean 00:34:24 god has left me 00:34:30 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 00:34:34 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike. 00:34:36 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 00:34:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike. 00:34:45 where is your explanation!! 00:35:15 the message i'm taking home from this is not to read anything by this guy, ever 00:35:30 yes 00:35:49 Bike: i'm going to go to wherever the fuck you are and turn your house upside down unless you immediately specify the value of several referents in your last few real sentences 00:36:50 none of my messages have full stops 00:36:52 not real sentences 00:37:01 `pastelogs Bike.*\. 00:37:25 you're being very annoying!!!! 00:37:29 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.21251 00:37:53 none of these actually involve me 00:38:27 "anyway for a nilcycle you just take a bike-unicycle and remove the wheel, then hook the pedals up to like... a fan that spins really fast to lift you up a little bit" innovative 00:39:15 Bike: what is the "that" that was him, what is "the link", what is the thing that "had some dumbass diagram", what is the thing that he (who is he) has been "doing for years" 00:40:05 i think i sound really dumb in logs 00:40:12 elliott: ok the he is moldbug 00:40:45 Bike: ok that's one piece of information 00:40:53 «2012-11-11.txt:05:24:55: sometimes I have a transient wish that just for a brief moment words would mean things...» and in that moment i was elliott 00:40:53 what is the "that"!!! 00:40:59 i don't know 00:41:03 which "that" you mean 00:41:12 uh let's see 00:41:13 01:28:31 wait 00:41:13 01:28:33 oh shit that was him 00:41:13 01:28:37 oh SHIT 00:41:20 "the link" is the link to moldbug's blog 00:41:22 on the nock thing 00:41:40 the thing that had some dumbass diagram is that blog 00:41:54 the thing he's been doing for years is being a crazy fucker 00:41:59 ok so wait 00:42:11 what on earth do you know mencius moldbug for if not writing a crazy-ass blog on the internet for years 00:42:16 i didn't realise anyone knew him for anything else at all 00:42:30 well 00:42:38 i know a guy who reads a lot of crazy ass blogs 00:42:46 i get "Moldbug updates" through him sometimes 00:43:54 is that like meanwhile in /r/bitcoin but w/ moldbu 00:43:55 g 00:44:03 yeah 00:44:06 except more sad than funny 00:45:41 i mean iirc he explicitly calls himself a royalist 00:45:44 he's too crazy to hate 00:45:46 imo 00:46:05 anyway i like nock/urbit even if the author is a friend of a madman 00:47:31 should i learn about moldbug this sounds fascinating 00:48:31 maybe he went crazy from the stress of having such an awful name 00:49:05 mnoqy i'm sorry 00:52:16 mnoqy: http://unqualified-reservations.blogspot.com/ 00:52:39 warning: anti-democracy, most likely racist, gigantic posts 00:54:37 hm these posts are shorter 00:54:45 than the ones i remember 00:54:50 i glanced at a post and it was about how the climategate people existing meant that the constitution was invalid 00:57:41 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:06:58 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:12:17 great i reread the urbit post and want to write @ again 01:12:24 nooooo 01:13:22 don't do it elliott 01:13:26 don't want to write @ 01:14:03 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:14:20 On Oneiric and Linux 3.9 01:14:22 erm, 3.0 01:14:51 lambdabot: @ is upon us 01:14:51 Maybe you meant: . ? @ activity activity-full admin all-dicts arr ask b52s babel bf bid botsnack brain bug check choice-add choose clear-messages compose devils dice dict dict-help djinn djinn-add 01:14:51 djinn-clr djinn-del djinn-env djinn-names djinn-ver do docs dummy easton echo elements elite eval fact fact-cons fact-delete fact-set fact-snoc fact-update faq farber flush foldoc forget fortune 01:14:51 fptools free freshname ft gazetteer get-shapr ghc girl19 google googleit gsite gwiki hackage help hitchcock hoogle hoogle+ id ignore index instances instances-importing irc-connect jargon join karma 01:14:51 karma+ karma- karma-all keal kind learn leave let list listall listchans listmodules listservers localtime localtime-reply lojban map messages messages? more msg nazi-off nazi-on nixon oeis offline 01:14:51 oldwiki palomer part paste ping pl pl-resume pointful pointless pointy poll-add poll-close poll-list poll-remove poll-result poll-show pretty print-notices protontorpedo purge-notices quit quote rc 01:14:53 read reconnect remember repoint run shootout show slap smack source spell spell-all src tell thank you thanks thx ticker time todo todo-add todo-delete topic-cons topic-init topic-null topic-snoc 01:14:55 topic-tail topic-tell type undefine undo unlambda unmtl unpf unpl unpointless uptime url v vera version vote web1913 what where where+ wiki wn world02 yarr yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw yow 01:15:15 Hmm, that's a bit long. :-( 01:15:18 I always forget how long that is. 01:15:22 lambdabot has too many commands. 01:15:32 @b52s 01:15:32 Girl from Ipanema, she goes to Greenland 01:15:37 @girl19 01:15:37 am I supposed to be frantic with terror and anxiety? 01:15:45 @nixon 01:15:45 The press is the enemy. 01:15:47 @farber 01:15:48 I'm going to take a hiatus. 01:28:01 @b52s 01:28:01 His ear lobe fell in the deep. Someone reached in and grabbed it. It was a rock lobster! 01:29:12 @girl19 01:29:13 nobody can catch me 01:29:20 * Sgeo decides to use the GUI-based upgrader this time 01:29:22 @nixon 01:29:22 You won't have Nixon to kick around anymore, because, gentlemen, this is my last press conference. 01:29:23 @farber 01:29:24 Should be smooth 01:29:24 You are never going to fail unless you try. 01:34:03 http://farmersonly.com 01:34:12 FarmersOnly is not accessible from outside the US and Canada. 01:34:12 help 01:34:35 city folks just don't get it™, elliott. 01:35:18 what is it 01:35:26 online dating 01:35:31 for farmers 01:35:34 wow 01:35:47 btw that city folks thing is actually on their logo with the ™ and all 01:36:00 Meet 1,000s of Down to Earth Country Folks Today! 01:36:34 anyone know a good android scratchpad app? 01:36:43 Is it just me, or are scrollbars weird now 01:36:52 Which is annoying with my partially broken mouse wheel 01:37:19 they've been weird since your birth 01:38:06 There's just a thin blue line, and hovering over it reveals a control I can drag or click 01:40:14 Rob Ford's lawyer's defense re the crack video: "How can you indicate what the mayor is actually doing or smoking?" 01:40:35 at the point where your defense is "you can't prove that crack isn't fake" then I think you've already lost political legitimacy 01:40:35 has he been impeached or something yet 01:40:52 not yet 01:41:27 i think you've already lost political legitimacy where something called "buzz feed" has a kickstarter campaign to buy a film of you smoking 01:41:32 because: that's some dumb shit 01:42:12 i havent been following but this sounds pretty rad 01:43:15 its gawker isnt it 01:43:17 basically the mayor of toronto is probably a damned politician 01:43:21 p sure its gawker 01:43:29 dude i don't care 01:43:33 one of those fucking sites 01:43:35 im pedant 01:43:41 nO 01:43:47 yes it's gawker 01:43:51 http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/rob-ford-crackstarter 01:43:53 thmc (-: 01:44:01 it's not kickstarter either 01:44:02 am im pedant 01:44:09 imo don't get your news from me i lie 01:44:21 Bike: liar 01:44:34 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?page=all here's the story that broke today about how everyone in his family is a sketchy-ass drug dealer 01:44:50 it gets really batshit crazy when they get to his sister 01:44:58 yeah i heard about that 01:45:02 her boyfriend was a klansman? 01:45:22 apparently 01:45:44 the canadian klan 01:50:23 the... clan? that does not elide nicely 01:50:43 no, the klan 01:50:47 kkkanadaians 01:50:50 as in the ku klux klan 01:51:20 yes, i know 01:51:26 kmc: what book should i read 01:51:54 have you read banks 01:52:29 no 01:52:50 shachaf: I’m reading the Revelation Space series at the moment. 01:53:21 i think series should be considered harmful until proven innocent 01:54:04 ion: should i read that 01:54:10 shachaf: yes 01:54:56 http://heh.fi/revelationspace/ I’m at Absolution Gap 01:55:49 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 01:55:59 The Mind of Primitive Man 01:57:47 ion: Oh, now I remember. 01:58:10 shachaf, imo read banks instead 01:58:15 ion is stupid, probably smells 01:58:17 which banks 01:58:49 iain (m.) 01:59:29 i know 01:59:31 which books 02:00:34 -!- beeeeeeeeees has changed nick to tswett. 02:02:03 READ ALL THE BOOKS 02:05:07 shachaf, player of games, then use of weapons 02:05:34 elliott won't listen to the One True Reading Order but hopefully you'll have more success 02:05:36 Phantom_Hoover: btw i found some Cadbury Flake so you don't have to send me any hth 02:05:39 i've never smoked crack but i have used a crack pipe 02:05:44 yay 02:05:47 * Phantom_Hoover -> sleep 02:05:51 what did you smoke with it 02:05:59 5-MeO-DMT 02:06:03 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:06:07 that;s a lot of sci-fi 02:06:47 When I reach Precise, should I watch DS9 or sleep 02:07:12 getcho ass in the game 02:07:17 ds9 02:07:30 anyone who hasn't watched ds9 and takes actions other than fixing that is questionable tbh 02:07:35 is your computer warping forward in time 02:07:49 i haven't watched ds9 hth 02:07:53 ion: i remember this page being much more involved last time 02:07:56 yes. It's currently in 2011, but getting to 2012 rapidly 02:08:08 I think I'll take a break once it's fully in 2012. 02:08:24 elliott: Involved? 02:08:26 smokin' crack in canada, doo dah, doo dah 02:08:37 ion: as in it was longer 02:08:39 and had more words 02:09:00 kmc: was it illegal when you smoked it 02:09:43 it wasn't scheduled 02:09:45 but analog act 02:11:34 elliott: Oh, you’re probably referring to the version that asked “is this a good reading order?” with a table promoted by some random web site. A friend of mine said that order sucks (reveals some things too early etc.) and recommended this one. 02:11:36 People care about Geocities, they archived it, that bit of history. 02:11:46 i watched all of ds9 in a single semester. it was worth it. 02:11:51 Will the same be done for Active Worlds, before it goes down for good, if it does? 02:11:58 Or of other virtual worlds? 02:12:04 nope 02:12:08 :( 02:12:31 The ability to make backups of some parts of Active Worlds does exist. 02:12:41 Reading them again is a different story 02:12:51 As is the social aspects -- some of the data could be abused 02:12:57 imo hope for mount vesuvius 02:13:03 thousands must die for history 02:13:11 (But not really abusable once AW is gone) 02:15:21 `olist 02:15:23 olist: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly 02:15:39 Sgeo: Thanks! 02:15:53 yw 02:16:51 It's like a KICKSTARTER but for VIDEOS OF POLITICIANS SMOKING CRACK COCAINE! 02:19:22 Sgeo: Since when do we get updates on Saturday? 02:19:31 fizzie: so did you extract the qbasic docs with links and everything from the original files that ship with qbasic? 02:19:44 Since Burlew decides when we get updates and I don't, that's since when. 02:20:02 Really more of a since why... 02:31:11 ...I didn't realize Daft Punk was a duo until now 02:31:15 I blame Interstella 5555 02:36:29 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:40:16 ion: do you subscribe to `olist........i feel like you should be on that list 02:45:37 19:44 the most subtle form of crackpottery is the people who aren't wrong, and actually accomplish something, but what they work on is so ill-conceived it will never be useful 02:46:05 Esolangs are a form of crackpottery? 02:46:22 I wasn't talking about esolangs in particular. 02:47:00 are you cmccann? 02:47:32 aren't we all 02:48:58 is brainfuck a true esolang 02:49:09 afaik it wasn't designed to be particularly different or difficult 02:49:16 it was designed to be very simple and to have a simple compiler 02:49:32 the central dogma of esolangology 02:50:17 kmc: it was designed an esolang and is weird, so it gets in pretty much by definition 02:50:31 it's not weird :( 02:50:43 kmc: yes it is 02:50:47 i mean a very superficial kind of weirdness 02:50:53 even LOLCODE is weird 02:50:57 it's an esolang, just a bad one 02:51:17 brainfuck isnt a real language 02:51:20 cheap P'' knockoff 02:51:28 (flips the bird) 02:51:54 double prime all the way 02:52:41 Anyway kmc knows what I was quoting cmccann about. 02:52:47 i don't remember 03:05:34 the joke is zzo38 03:05:52 * shachaf ≪ 3 zzo38, by the way 03:06:01 i like how it took you twenty minutes from quote to explaining it 03:06:16 i was busy 03:06:59 > map (pred.pred.pred) "freud" 03:07:00 "cobra" 03:14:14 kmc: did you read any books by vonnegut....id ont remember 03:14:28 yeah 03:14:45 slaughterhouse five and breakfast of champions 03:14:48 and maybe some others i forgot 03:15:09 i think in slaughterhouse five he points out how none of his books have villains in them 03:15:13 well at least people who are villains 03:15:54 it's surprisingly unusual 03:16:13 I should get around to reading that book I want to read 03:16:31 shouldn't we all 03:16:45 You all want to read that specific book that I like? 03:16:49 *erm, want to read 03:16:51 :-) 03:16:56 oh boy 03:16:58 now you're done it 03:17:04 you've gotten the mnoqy smiley of death 03:17:09 you'll die within 24 hours 03:18:10 Sgeo: what book do you want to read 03:18:35 The Eternal Flame 03:18:39 by Greg Egan 03:19:51 Theternalame, Gregan 03:20:32 Gregand? 03:20:46 GREG HAS NO SOCKS ON 03:28:36 Although I have to admit skimming the science stuff.... well, not real-world science, but pseudoscience is wrong because it's not bad science claiming to be reali science 03:28:54 internal science? 03:56:05 fictional science? 03:58:38 kmscience 04:02:25 * Bike beatboxes 04:03:15 no Bike 04:03:17 don't do it 04:16:40 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:20:59 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:21:18 Of course my fonts look different 04:21:22 And stuff is breaking 04:21:24 *sigh* 04:21:32 Well, I'm on Ubuntu 12.04 LTS at least 04:25:05 yay 04:25:29 congratulations, your system is now Bike Quality 04:25:35 (hope you have good tech support) 04:25:57 Ok, why does Chrome still not want to use WebGL? 04:26:02 the rumour goes that haswell will be out in ~2 weeks 04:30:20 ...."Overrides the built-in software rendering list and enables GPU-acceleration on unsupported system configurations." 04:30:29 Now wondering what the implications of that are 04:30:35 Besides suddenly allowing me to use WebGL 04:30:49 may cause impotence 04:31:10 may cause idempotence 04:31:12 * Sgeo is thinking that the fact that enabling that worked implies that this system is not supported, and that there may be a good reason for this 04:31:47 -!- sprocklem has joined. 04:35:00 `welcome sprocklem 04:35:02 sprocklem: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 04:38:05 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:38:29 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:08:04 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:12:52 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sepples 05:12:59 Why is the server giving me text/plain? 05:16:27 http://twoproblems.com/ 05:18:35 http://twoproblems.com/48 spam? 05:19:21 Unlike the rest 05:24:54 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:47:17 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:50:26 -!- rodgort has joined. 05:56:33 -!- SgeoN1 has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 05:58:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 06:37:41 It seems like the audio from the microphone in the RF Famicom is also received by the cartridge (and the expansion port receives the same audio as the cartridge does). (I don't know if any official devices that connect to the expansion port use the sound, though) 07:10:20 They didn't put the Deadfish implementation in LLVM, Z-machine, Nintendo Famicom, etc 07:11:13 -!- Bike has set topic: LLVM, Z-machine, Nintendo Famicom, etc | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric | I vote TYHJÄ.. 07:19:15 I added the Deadfish implementation in SQL. 07:20:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:21:13 -!- FireFly has quit (Excess Flood). 07:21:18 :D 07:21:30 Mornin' 07:21:47 night Taneb 07:22:47 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:23:08 Taneb: elliott has a movie for you to watch 07:23:17 I'll add it to my list 07:23:26 Is this implementation OK? 07:23:59 Taneb: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtpVhEgj7tU 07:29:02 Wow 07:29:02 Actually, I suppose the decrement might be rewritten like: UPDATE `DEADFISH` SET `VALUE` = `VALUE` - 1 WHERE `VALUE` > 0; 07:29:02 -!- FireFly has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:29:02 -!- glogbot has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds). 07:29:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:12 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:31 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:29:35 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:30:06 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:30:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:30:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 07:30:38 -!- glogbot has joined. 07:31:52 -!- Gregor has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:32:12 -!- Gregor has joined. 07:33:31 This is a really awful movie 07:35:59 it has like one and a half out of ten on imdb 07:36:45 Taneb: you gotta watch the whole thing 07:37:03 I don't think I can 07:38:08 you gotta do it 07:38:21 An old korean woman is singing God Bless America while eating a McDonald's burger 07:38:31 Real Fast Nora is in your bones 07:38:41 No! 07:39:02 Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download is in my bones! 07:39:28 This is only three quarters of those tokens! 07:40:06 calm down 07:40:11 just keep watching 07:40:40 There's no story! 07:40:44 The characters are awful! 07:41:00 You don't need a story to make a good story. 07:41:03 Taneb: was that language name actually a spambot name? 07:41:09 I assumed it was simply created to resemble a spambot name 07:41:17 It's just a clip show of what happens in a hair salon! 07:41:25 ais523, it was an article posted by a spambot 07:41:27 -!- FireFly has joined. 07:41:34 Taneb: right 07:41:46 we need more esolangs named after spam 07:42:23 Taneb: keep watching 07:42:40 You need more esolangs named after eggs and spam and spam and eggs and spam; you already have some named after spam. 07:42:53 /⚠\ 07:43:37 shachaf is this an exorcism 07:46:05 Is this SQL code better now? 07:46:15 (and explanation of its use) 07:47:00 Taneb: the problem is you haven't watched nora's hair salon 1-2 07:47:03 if you did you'd understand 07:47:43 elliott: weren't you talking earlier about how 2 was a departure in the series' overarching plot arc 07:49:24 Bike: yes but in retrospect it offers several thematic keys that are necessary for full understanding of its revealed wholeness 07:51:17 oh 07:51:48 i;m gonna be honest here i've only seen nora's hair salon's porn parody version 07:52:12 -!- atriq has joined. 07:52:22 i was never aware there was such a deep nora's hair salon culture 07:53:11 -!- atriq has quit (Client Quit). 07:58:22 Hopefully now you know, then, if there is such things or not. 08:04:32 morning 08:05:37 elliott, is "nora's hair salon" an actual legit TV series or movie or something? 08:05:43 rather than just an esolang 08:06:20 i'll let Taneb explain 08:06:21 Oh, it seems like it is indeed 08:06:25 according to ddg 08:06:45 why name an esolang after it though 08:06:58 A spammer created a page with that name, apparently. 08:07:00 what kinda question is that 08:07:06 ah 08:07:06 also ==Bike 08:16:20 Interesting, I'm copying files over NFS from my RPi. Seems the copy speed is disk I/O bound on the RPi, since doing stuff that uses the disk heavily on it slows down the copying by about 2 MiB/s. 08:17:02 Or hm, I am using a external USB HDD, and the ethernet is also on USB, so that could be the bottleneck 08:37:11 Maybe you should copy more directly 08:37:37 I'm thinking 14MiB/s would be a more reasonable rate 08:43:14 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:48:45 FreeFull, the RPi doesn't have gbit ethernet though' 08:48:55 Anyway the copy is done since long, just 1.4 GB to copy 08:52:24 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 08:54:04 Vorpal: I mean, attach the HDD to the computer you're copying to 08:54:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:54:57 FreeFull, the computer I'm copying *to* is not the bottleneck by far. The RPi I'm copying from is the issue 08:55:56 FreeFull, as for attaching the HDD, no, not really, it is the system disk of the RPi 08:56:16 And since I use my RPi as a server that would be awkward 09:00:49 FreeFull, anyway I'm not sure 14 MiB/s would be reasonable, the USB HDD is USB 3 after all 09:00:56 Not that RPi can use that 09:11:20 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:12:05 -!- jconn has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:29:24 kmc: Yes. I think I may have used some QuickBasic tools to "decompile" the help file first. 09:31:10 ^style 09:31:10 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 09:31:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 09:31:33 kmc: Yes, that's what happened; the tools gave me http://sprunge.us/Bfhb and then some Perl took it from there. 09:31:34 fizzie, wasn't QuickBasic for DOS or something? 09:32:03 Vorpal: Sure. 09:32:13 What did you do with the manual? 09:32:28 I hoped fungot, but can't spot any new entries 09:32:28 Vorpal: it wasn't just whimsical, it was an issue 09:32:38 `paste quotes 09:32:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes 09:32:54 Vorpal: I made http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html out of it. This was quite a while back. 09:33:14 (March 2009, if these timestamps are anything to go by.) 09:33:30 fizzie, I think IPv6 on that host is a bit slow btw 09:33:53 ipv6.google.com (so it isn't on my end) responds fast but your site took several seconds 09:34:36 (The QBasic help file had more or less the same format as the QuickBasic ones.) 09:34:37 Uhh... 09:34:55 Oh. 09:35:13 confusing names 09:35:22 qbasic sounds like shorthand for quickbasic... 09:35:28 It's not, though. 09:35:50 I gathered as much, which was why I said it was confusing 09:36:19 `quote shachaf, your 09:36:21 814) shachaf, your a fucking piece of shit, die and kill your family 09:36:29 What's that about? 09:36:44 `quote on which note I 09:36:46 No output. 09:36:49 `quote on which note, I 09:36:50 417) Non sequitur is my forte On-topic discussion is my piano Bowls of sugary breakfast cereal is my mezzoforte Full fat milk is my pianissimo On which note, I'm hungry 09:37:17 bbl 09:37:24 shachaf: Apparently it was Phantom_Hoover trying to be a pretend elliott. 09:37:43 (You added the quote yourself.) 09:37:55 Oh. 09:37:58 I hate zip bombs... 09:38:01 it's p. bad 09:38:06 someone should probably delete it 09:38:50 Anyone know an easy way to batch create directories when extracting, neither 7z nor unzip on the command line appear to have options for that. I guess I'll write my own script 09:39:33 `delquote 814 09:39:38 ​*poof* shachaf, your a fucking piece of shit, die and kill your family 09:44:26 Vorpal: unzip blah.zip -d intodir 09:45:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 09:45:43 fizzie, yeah I hoped it could auto-gen intodir from blah.zip name 09:45:50 since I have over 20 zip files.. 09:55:44 Vorpal: You can do that with a script 09:56:01 I did, as I said 09:56:08 I just hoped there was a built in way 09:57:31 for x in *.zip; do unzip x -d $( basename x .zip ); done 09:57:42 That's the way you'd do it in bash 09:57:58 FreeFull, your way is not space safe 09:58:10 So that would have broken horribly 09:58:14 True 09:58:19 also you forgot a few $ 09:58:23 Also true 09:58:33 Just add $ and quoting 09:59:12 FreeFull, I ended up writing this (since I didn't noticed the -d flag at that point): for i in *.zip; do target="${i/ (MP3).zip/}"; mkdir "$target" && (cd "$target" && unzip "../$i"); done 10:00:12 (the parens are there to contain the effect of the directory change) 10:03:53 I don't like how the last line of the dmesg on my RPi is "[674315.948455] [BLOCK] I\x19" 10:04:00 That doesn't look right at all 10:04:38 /var/log/kern.log looks normal though 10:47:19 `pastelogs main[] 10:47:26 grep: missing terminating ] for character class \ http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.10129 10:47:54 `pastelogs main\[\] 10:48:31 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.8377 10:49:25 `q 10:49:26 const int main[]={232,1230520576,3943032963,1852793621,1763734643,1830843502,1533962593,2105228637,826804795,1220607680,2370422665,826805616,252883666,3247000837,1221734733,186936461,738215366,1221459784,2336342065,3526445057,4148693683,818053363,1207981448,3229994495,4282968949,1220607685,2370367113,1208755284,84929065,1237516105,1225048451,191509 10:49:38 `run q | paste 10:49:43 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29668 10:49:52 `run cat $(which q) 10:49:54 ​ELF............>.....@.....@.................@.8..@.........@.......@.@.....@.@........................................@......@............................................@.......@................... ..................`.....`.................... .................`.....`............................ 11:02:29 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:04:22 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 11:17:34 -!- oklopol has joined. 11:17:36 sda 11:20:05 I finally understand monoids! monoids are so intuitive now 11:20:25 shachaf: Explain them 11:21:32 monoids are just monoids in the category of whatever 11:21:37 endomorphisms 11:22:43 oklopol: hey 11:22:48 hi 11:33:57 @brain are you thinking what oklopol is thinking 11:33:57 I think so, Brain, but how would we ever determine Sandra Bullock's shoe size? 11:34:11 oklopol: what's up 11:34:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:43:07 shachaf: Now go onto semigroups and rings 11:43:12 And magmas 11:46:10 semigroups shouldn't be _that_ hard after monoids 11:47:06 elliott: work, coding, music, geocaching. 11:47:24 oklopol: sounds good 11:47:29 u? 11:47:30 oklopol: is any of it good 11:47:35 it's all pretty good imo 11:47:42 i've been doing uh 11:47:43 am i good 11:47:45 not much 11:47:52 need an oklopolian work ethic 11:48:19 mostly i've been concentrating on the work part 11:48:32 if i don't get my phd soon i'm going to die of embarrassment 11:48:38 what's the work 11:48:38 oh 11:48:42 i mean 11:48:44 research 11:48:53 what are you researching 11:48:55 can you get a phd in irc? 11:48:58 symbolic dynamics and this 11:49:00 *shit 11:49:28 i don't think you can 11:50:19 and cellular automata 11:55:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 12:09:23 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:31:49 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:07:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:14:21 oerjan: hi 13:14:39 'afternoon 13:16:26 he's too crazy to hate <-- that would be a great tagline, no 13:16:53 oerjan: i'll tell it to the WSJ 13:17:27 murdoch: too crazy to hate? 13:18:22 i assume you've seen that btw 13:22:34 what 13:22:38 http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/globe-investigation-the-ford-familys-history-with-drug-dealing/article12153014/?page=all here's the story that broke today about how everyone in his family is a sketchy-ass drug dealer 13:23:02 i shall read that with the standard xkcd adjustment 13:24:05 hm that was a really early xkcd 13:24:15 Phantom_Hoover: did you not see the wsj thing... 13:24:37 * oerjan doesn't know the wsj thing hth 13:24:54 oerjan: Phantom_Hoover: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html 13:25:01 linked in here by the dishonourable cpressey 13:27:16 has anyone designed brain[expletitive deleted] yet 13:28:04 oh it's that new 13:28:18 i've been skipping logs 13:28:50 a dire mistake 13:28:55 i really hope they interview zzo 13:30:39 ...can the universe survive that 13:31:00 so long as Taneb and elliott don't meet we should be fine 13:31:13 okay if you are sure about that 13:32:24 it turns out that i was taneb allong.... 13:32:43 Phantom_Hoover: how';s your eodedmoermomoemdiomermoemdoimeoirmdomoeimromdome implementation 13:33:08 i never tried making an eodermdrome interpretation, i just tell other people to do it 13:33:15 you did try!!! 13:34:19 "Also, it's a little known fact that all esolangers harbour a Howard-Hughes-esque fear of telephones -- I mean, how can you ever be completely sure they've been adequately sanitized, amirite?" <-- wait my fear of telephones and my paranoid hygiene are _entirely_ unrelated matters hth 13:35:55 i think oerjan probably is a telephone 13:36:42 also eodedmoermomoemdiomermoemdoimeoirmdomoeimromdome is an _entirely_ unacceptable synonym of eodermdrome, it doesn't even have d and r neighboring hth 13:39:33 oh dear chris actually suggested zzo 13:41:38 hmm 13:42:04 howard hughes was in at least 3 serious airplane crashes i know of so far 13:46:50 "I don't want to dwell on this, but I feel a need to be perfectly clear. When you eat at a restaurant, you don't think about the rats, even though, statistically speaking, they are less than 30 feet away. If you write about esolang, YOU WILL BE WRITING ABOUT THE RATS." help 13:46:54 what does that even mean 13:47:00 > map (pred.pred.pred) "freud" <-- hm... 13:47:38 > iterate (map pred) "jung" 13:47:39 ["jung","itmf","hsle","grkd","fqjc","epib","doha","cng`","bmf_","ale^","`kd... 13:47:57 > iterate (map pred) "cngz" 13:47:58 ["cngz","bmfy","alex","`kdw","_jcv","^ibu","]hat","\\g`s","[f_r","Ze^q","Yd... 13:48:16 > iterate (map pred) "zkdw" 13:48:18 ["zkdw","yjcv","xibu","what","vg`s","uf_r","te^q","sd]p","rc\\o","qb[n","pa... 13:48:20 -!- carado has joined. 13:48:31 > iterate (map pred) "vgzs" 13:48:32 ["vgzs","ufyr","texq","sdwp","rcvo","qbun","patm","o`sl","n_rk","m^qj","l]p... 13:48:54 > iterate (map pred) "ozsl" 13:48:55 ["ozsl","nyrk","mxqj","lwpi","kvoh","jung","itmf","hsle","grkd","fqjc","epi... 13:49:23 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:54:05 You need more esolangs named after eggs and spam and spam and eggs and spam; you already have some named after spam. <-- he has a point there 13:57:57 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:12:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:19:42 shachaf: What’s the olist? 14:42:36 -!- elieser224 has joined. 14:45:00 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: i do not like green eggs and spam). 14:51:20 -!- elieser224 has left. 14:53:26 ion, oots 14:55:39 ok so 14:55:48 wtf is this syndication thing american tv keeps going on about 14:55:56 its whre you syndicajtei :))) 14:55:59 D-: 14:56:05 ANy q's 14:59:20 elliott: oh shit I forgot to tell you. 14:59:23 You have a baby brother now! 14:59:27 His name is Oliver. 15:07:11 congratulations 15:15:46 -!- Efluxen has joined. 15:16:05 -!- Efluxen has left. 15:16:42 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 15:39:10 -!- iamcal__ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 15:39:29 -!- olsner has joined. 15:40:24 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:41:19 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:41:19 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:41:28 -!- Koen_ has joined. 15:48:54 -!- cpressey has joined. 15:50:48 ooh, that's a tough one. is it CHIP-8? 15:51:37 oh, hey cpressey 15:51:43 hey coppro 15:54:11 sigh 15:54:17 only 230000 more graphs to generate 16:04:59 -!- jix_ has joined. 16:07:34 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:10:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 16:14:19 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:17:14 -!- BillyZane has quit (*.net *.split). 16:17:14 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 16:31:16 -!- elieser224 has joined. 16:32:19 -!- elieser2241 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:32:47 -!- BillyZane has joined. 16:37:24 -!- elieser224 has left. 16:44:19 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:47:57 -!- elieser224 has joined. 16:48:06 -!- elieser224 has left. 17:05:20 What would be awesome: An HTML5 client for BYOND servers. 17:07:16 was that a question. 17:08:47 It was a statement. 17:15:33 Phantom__Hoover: like syndicating TV shows? after the first run they sell off the rights to re-run the show 17:18:38 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 17:22:42 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:35:18 -!- iamcal__ has joined. 17:35:55 -!- zzo38 has joined. 17:38:12 -!- ggherdov has joined. 17:43:40 So glad Moonlight works on Linux 17:43:52 But why can't I login to Robozzle dammit 17:48:33 I'm afraid the part of my brain dedicated to robozzle might be too big for my own good if I keep learning about that stack 17:48:59 moonlight being the silverlight implementation? or what 17:49:13 kmc, yes 17:55:35 Going to go watch some DS9 17:57:43 ...........fuck 17:58:59 hi zzo38 would you like to give an interview from someone from the wall street journal? 17:59:06 s/from/to/ 17:59:20 -!- elieser224 has joined. 17:59:32 -!- elieser224 has left. 17:59:37 zzo38: http://catseye.tc/wsj.html <-- read 17:59:57 everyone else: http://i4.minus.com/ibmS7uAFLGOZ0n.jpg 18:01:01 zzo38: i'm perfectly happy to direct them straight to you, if you'd like to talk with them 18:01:39 cpressey: you should spell it "nut graf" if you really want to be all J-school 18:02:06 kmc: noted and thank you for your authenticity-enhancing tip 18:04:30 esolangs don't get much traction on Hacker News because they rarely have web frameworks or million-dollar Series A rounds 18:05:10 Someone should write a web framework in brainfuck 18:05:28 it's probably been done, because brainfuck is so popular 18:05:29 Or compile one down to brainfuck at least 18:05:45 careful what you wish for! also I wouldn't be surprised if I were to find out it already existed 18:06:04 Amazon wants me to update Flash. I am using the last version of standalone Flash that Adobe put out for Linux. If I switch to the more up-to-date thing that comes with Chrome, it will complain because that has no DRM. 18:06:33 https://github.com/masylum/Brainfuck-on-Rails 18:07:04 Yeah, I found that too 18:07:12 it's 20 MB of code 18:07:20 Sgeo_: You're fucked 18:08:10 (I'm not surprised) 18:09:04 20 MB of security holes 18:10:09 Jafet: Brainfuck can't read from disk, only read the input and write to the output 18:10:13 It's bulletproof 18:10:26 -!- Jafet has left. 18:10:32 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 18:10:38 -!- Jafet has joined. 18:10:53 https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram/pull/4 a productive afternoon 18:11:00 You'd think that 18:11:07 -!- elieser2241 has left. 18:16:15 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 18:16:44 https://github.com/ticklemynausea/gobsprogram 18:16:49 That list is pretty small 18:17:54 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:19:14 "every language" They still have a lot of work 18:20:29 how many different african dialects does that include? 18:20:43 I suppose all of them 18:21:49 Someone actually made the xkcd tetris http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_giTK__WVOw 18:22:44 Jafet: have you looked at that "not tetris" program from that "stabyourself" guy who also made mario-portal? 18:23:13 Not Tetris 2 is fantastic 18:23:47 anyway http://drilbert.tumblr.com 18:23:56 soneone should port all that stuff to android 18:24:34 Jafet: hmm for a game called "hell tetris" the video looks incredibly tolerant 18:24:56 i like the idea of bastet 18:25:50 I mean, I don't want to make any nonfunny sex joke but he inserts some pieces is some holes that look much too small for me 18:27:42 Installing libhal1 and hal worked 18:27:45 Hell is getting mad that you can't get any lines in hell tetris 18:28:09 HAL tetris 18:29:19 bastet is short for bastard tetris which is pretty much like regular tetris, except the fact that it calculates the usefulness of all available stones and always gives you the ones that will help you the least 18:29:24 You know, possibly the only thing from HAL that actually works today is that computers can beat people at chess 18:29:37 Everything else is bad 60s scifi 18:33:24 myname: bastet doesn't actually give the worst piece, because the programmer thought that it would be too difficult 18:33:39 Then some people beat the game 18:34:36 Sgeo_: yeah i had to do that for DRM'd videos on Hulu 18:34:36 Well, giving the worst piece would be too predictable 18:35:06 Jafet: isn't it beaten because it is predictable? 18:35:44 i don't get this idea of putting DRM on digital distribution of shows that are free over the air anyway 18:35:55 it only takes ONE person to put it on Bittorrent 18:36:10 But until that person shows up 18:36:53 myname: if that's the case, then bastet sounds like crap 18:38:07 Bike: uh 18:38:19 does the text on drilbert come from anywhere in particular? 18:38:26 i have no idea 18:38:56 oh, "Tweets by @Dril" 18:39:42 cpressey: I don't know, sorry. 18:39:50 cpressey: I don't think I am able. 18:40:25 «@ernest_borg9 @RichardDawkins impossible. for he has already denounced the neologism "OWned", and i cannot own him, nor him me,» 18:40:27 you can do it zzo38 18:40:28 http://24.media.tumblr.com/51cfac4f0763b0c76df19bc72de4ab6a/tumblr_mlfbgcQ9n31sou3fto1_250.png 18:40:30 believe in yourself 18:43:28 What are hal and libhal1 anyway? 18:46:00 It's a program that takes over all your hardware 18:47:13 kmc, well, could be laziness ... same reason it makes 'sense' to have data bounce off of cell tower and back to message someone just down the hallway 18:47:30 The infrastructure is there, are you going to start making special cases? 18:49:41 Sgeo_: well I know that for Hulu, most of the content isn't DRMed, because I could use it fine, and then one day i had to install hal/libhal1 to watch an episode of Community 18:49:49 so I conclude that NBC made them turn it on for that show specifically 18:50:00 which is pretty weird 18:51:08 Oh 18:56:13 hulu sounds so much better than the iplayer 18:56:40 i wish i could live in your capitalist paradise rather than kneeling before the fist of socialism 19:02:39 it is pretty great 19:04:15 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:05:17 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:06:29 -!- mnoqy has joined. 19:08:14 fizzie: your line drawing is broken around "\\ Integer division symbol" 19:08:43 cpressey: I think your letter to Wall Street Journal is good; make it in the IRC. Certainly I am able to do it in the IRC, and so are you, I guess. 19:09:41 zzo38: if you're here while it's happening, feel free to chip in. note: the likelihood of the reporter agreeing to do it on IRC is thought to be small 19:10:05 Probably you are correct. 19:10:10 and a few other places that backslashes appear 19:12:44 zzo38: can i still make the reporter try to contact you, if they don't agree to my conditions? it sounds like a nice task to set before them. if they succeed in contacting you, you can then refer them to (i dunno, let's say) oerjan. 19:13:37 kmc: It's because the integer division symbol is \. 19:14:10 kmc: Yeah, it has \\s in place of \s, which breaks some formatted tables, for example. 19:14:26 (I suppose you missed that.) 19:14:29 cpressey: Sure, you can, but I don't think they can. I can probably tell them a few things too, refer them to oerjan, who tell them some more thing and refer to someone else and then they tell some more things until it is complete, but clearly it seem this way is not as good as using the IRC. 19:15:04 -!- SirCmpwn has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:20:40 zzo38: I agree, but sometimes, you just have to make do with what you got. thanks! 19:21:30 -!- elieser224 has joined. 19:21:33 OK, then 19:22:22 -!- sprocklem has joined. 19:24:09 -!- SirCmpwn has joined. 19:29:02 * kmc is a huge fan of line drawing characters 19:30:09 do you moderate a line drawing characters fandom forum 19:30:48 not yet 19:31:26 kmc: Using CP437 or Unicode or shift-in/shift-out line drawing or ASCII approximations or all of them or something else entirely? 19:32:04 When doing line drawing I usually use CP437 or ASCII approximations, although you might use whatever is necessary for whatever is being done. 19:32:21 There is also the Zork runic font which also contains line drawing. 19:33:32 UTF-8 19:34:40 Well, it is an encoding for Unicode. But, if you use Unicode for line drawing how are you going to supposed to know if the text is the correct width that it will line up properly? 19:36:24 the lack of han characters for drawing lines is a major weakness of the orthography IMO 19:36:46 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 19:37:19 zzo38: the same way I know in any other character encoding? 19:37:44 hm, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bresenham%27s_line_algorithm looks interesting 19:38:05 kmc: But in Unicode it is ambiguous. 19:38:25 AnotherTest: i wish i'd known that back when i played with TIs 19:38:48 Bike: as a matter of fact, that's what I'm doing nowadays 19:38:55 -!- elieser224 has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 19:39:15 well, during eg. religion class (note: this is confidential, do not leak) 19:39:19 cpressey: Maybe you should write more about Z-machine? I know some things about Z-machine and have written an assembler and interpreter and an addendum to the standards document; so if there are some things you don't know, you can try to ask me and maybe I know or don't know either. 19:39:48 AnotherTest: Then don't post it on the public IRC. 19:39:50 AnotherTest: are TIs your religion 19:40:00 Bike: possibly 19:40:08 I've implemented RSA in TI-Basic before 19:40:44 Not that it was really useful because I couldn't use any key-sizes that were not crackable 19:41:27 i should implement RSA in QBASIC 19:42:04 kmc: I found that it was pretty annoying, also not that it cost me AT LEAST 5 full classes 19:43:24 I had to actually type in the ASCII table (well part of it) 19:43:42 TI-92 has ASCII built-in. 19:43:50 there should be a review site for algorithms. RSA 2/5 stars, pretty annoying + took me five whole religion classes to implement + i couldn't even securely sign my notes 19:44:04 zzo38: 83+ doesn't unfortunately 19:44:32 (well as far as I know, and it's definitely not something you can easily access through TI-Basic) 19:44:42 AnotherTest: O, OK, well, I have a TI-92, but I think TI-83 is more common. 19:44:46 Wait, RSA doesn't depend on encoding, why'd you need a table 19:44:56 Bike: I wanted to be able to type in strings 19:45:11 and the result would be a list of bits 19:45:29 oh is there not something like that defaultly 19:45:32 wow it's been a while 19:45:55 Bike: there really isn't a lot defaultly 19:46:22 You even need to write an asm program to enable lowercase letters 19:47:00 heh, i remember finding the asm functions but having no idea how to use them 19:47:34 Bike: you write the hexadecimal instructions in a program, you run that program with AsmPrgrm hth 19:48:10 not really "asm" then is it :) 19:48:12 I do have the emulator on my computer though, to emulate TI-83, TI-92, etc. (You can download the most recent ROMs from Texas Instruments) 19:48:18 But writing asm programs on the calculator itself is generally rather annoying for that reason 19:48:46 zzo38: I don't really know much about the Z-machine; I tried to read the spec once, but all those packed values made my head spin 19:48:48 iirc on the 83 not-plus, the syntax for this was even weirder and less documented 19:49:09 that and the virtual memory paging stuff 19:49:15 Bike: ever used the GetCalc functions? That's great fun 19:49:23 so i hear there are riots in sweden 19:49:24 nope 19:49:31 i'm not a "hardcore" calculator programmer 19:49:50 I used them to make some really boring game before 19:50:26 my friend made a simple platformer with walljumping 19:50:43 «'Youth rioting' in Sweden? It's the Muslims, stupid - WND» i'm not sure i want to look this up Phantom__Hoover 19:50:59 one disadvantage is that both graphics and GetCalc (and the like) are really slow 19:51:02 it can only reflect badly on sweden! 19:51:11 actually WND is an american site 19:51:21 AnotherTest: yeah it was like half a second between frames `-` 19:51:29 yes, which is terrible 19:51:36 which makes writing games with graphics in TI-Basics pretty much impossible (well not if you want good graphics) 19:51:39 thus qez! 19:51:44 WorldNetDaily? yeah it's right wing conspiracy nonsense 19:52:08 But if you write them in Z80, the result can be surprisingly fast 19:52:16 cpressey: Virtual memory paging stuff? 19:52:17 i like how this is basically exactly the same as the uk riots back in the day 19:53:02 man all my news is just about the code pink activist 19:53:04 AnotherTest: Well, I have written games for TI-92 that doesn't use graphics, and I used other tricks to speed it up even more; specifically, I made a solitaire card game. At first the shuffling was slow but I figured out how to make it fast. 19:53:07 why can't we have some good riots, america!! 19:53:31 zzo38: it was a long time ago so my memory is basically nil, but i thought the Z-machine had multiple tiers of memory (and you access the higher tiers, which are swapped from disk on a small system, using packed addresses or something) 19:54:04 Bike, can you even have good riots 19:54:21 zzo38: sure, some optimizations can be made. And indeed using no graphics (or graphics that don't have animations) works too 19:54:42 Phantom__Hoover: i don't know, i'm not a riot enthusiast, just a dabbler 19:54:51 a VM meant for 8-bit systems that accesses >64K of memory has a complex memory access system, who'd've guessed 19:55:03 other news quotes: " same as the uk riots back in the day 19:55:04 12:53 < Bike> man all my news is just about the code pink activist 19:55:07 uuuuugh 19:55:08 " same as the uk riots back in the day 19:55:09 12:53 < Bike> man all my news is just about the code pink activist 19:55:11 FUCK 19:55:12 fuck. 19:55:17 cpressey: There is multiple tiers of memory, which are dynamic, static, and high. High memory can only contain text strings and instructions though, and the interpreter may use virtual memory to implement it, but to the Z-machine itself it is probably like Harvard memory, I suppose. 19:55:18 Z-machine? 19:55:31 multiple tyres of memory 19:55:31 However it isn't really Harvard since it is possible to store text strings and instructions in RAM, too. 19:56:01 i am not competent enough to paste into terminals 19:56:06 Bike, oh, you're not using xchat (xchat fucks up my copy/paste all the time as well) 19:56:20 "I really don't get the hate for this guy. according to your information, all he did was eating the heart of a dead body." 19:56:52 The dynamic and static memory is really the same except that only the dynamic memory has to be stored in RAM and in save files and undo buffer; static memory acts exactly the same as dynamic memory except that you may not write to it. High memory is also the same except that there are many more restrictions on its use. 19:57:02 Oh, a text adventure ... thingy 19:57:05 Ok, not a real machine 19:57:13 a virtual machine used for text adventures 19:57:58 "Gabon without France is like a car with no driver. France without Gabon is like a car with no fuel..." meanwhile in the past 19:59:09 Also, you have under 6502 machine code, Commodore 64, Atari 2600 VCS, Commodore VIC-20, Apple II, but there are more such as the Nintendo Family Computer. However, in the Nintendo Family Computer, the traces that implement decimal mode were physically cut, in order to prevent decimal mode from working (other than this, it is an actual 6502 core). 19:59:52 Wait, why prevent decimal mode from working? 19:59:53 why did they do that? 20:00:23 I think due to patent issues. 20:00:36 lol so they just left them in there but prevented them from working? 20:01:03 Yes; the logic for decimal mode is still in there, but the trace that connects it to the rest of the circuit is cut off to prevent it from working. 20:01:09 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 20:01:22 that'll teach 'em 20:01:56 we are pretty serious about protecting our patent on decimal arithmetic, see 20:02:10 Then there's intel, who kill cores because they can 20:02:45 they do it to sell different products at different price points 20:03:09 but a lot of that is parts of the chip that don't work reliably 20:06:35 -!- elieser224 has joined. 20:06:38 -!- elieser224 has left. 20:10:04 -!- elieser2241 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:10:30 Clearly we need a Z-machine interpreter in Haskell 20:11:30 mathematically pure z machine 20:11:43 i would be surprised if that has not been done 20:12:28 "Andrew Plotkin is currently (June 1997) drafting a..." 20:13:29 'To call itself "Standard", an interpreter should (as far as anyone knows) obey this document exactly for every Version of the Z-machine it claims to interpret.' 20:13:35 As far as anyone knows, bwahahaha 20:13:49 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 20:13:50 no you need a z-machine interpreter in Agda 20:13:57 and a proof of its correctness 20:14:11 here's standards, here's reality, and never the twain shall meet 20:14:41 I think there is Z-machine interpeter in Haskell. 20:14:47 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 20:14:58 -!- elieser2241 has left. 20:15:22 * kmc thinks about the morality of lasering out parts of a chip to sell it for cheaper 20:15:36 seems clear they should be allowed to do it, but would the world be a better place if they didn't 20:16:10 clearly they think this results in more money coming in, and that money goes to R&D for new chips 20:17:02 it allows big companies and military atom bomb simulators to subsidize cheap computers for the rest of us 20:17:12 so I think i'm pretty much OK with it 20:17:26 do the military still do much atom bomb simulation 20:17:33 kmc: do you like crying? http://www.quora.com/What-does-it-feel-like-to-have-your-spouse-die 20:17:38 i thought they had treaties about that kind of thing 20:17:40 copumpkin: no 20:17:43 oh :( 20:17:44 kmc: well, think about it another way 20:17:47 * copumpkin cries instead 20:17:59 Phantom__Hoover: yes 20:18:05 You get cheap atom chips partly subsidized by gamers who buy 970s 20:18:12 i can't even think of it as a moral issue 20:18:21 Phantom__Hoover: they do it more now that they aren't allowed to actually test the damn things 20:18:33 If they didn't bin, they would probably move prices into a smaller range 20:18:58 huh, so there were no nuclear detonations between 1998 and 2013? that's kind of nice 20:19:08 what about north korea 20:19:09 kmc, do they still bother developing nukes (what am i saying of course they do) 20:19:19 kmc: that's the 2013 20:19:26 Phantom__Hoover: the US hasn't introduced a new warhead design in a while, but they're really worried about the old ones falling apart 20:19:35 Has anyone detected fallout from north korea 20:19:47 Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_North_Korean_nuclear_tests 2009 and maybe 2006 20:19:56 Jafet: yes 20:20:00 i heard stories that they'd managed to make a uranium bomb which then fizzled 20:20:07 aw :( 20:20:17 Jafet: i thought so? but maybe I can't find the link now 20:20:31 this is impressive because fizzling is generally only an issue with plutonium 20:20:53 I have made up version 9 and 10 of Z-machine, and written other recommendations and clarifications related to Z-machine, including ones related to interpreter numbers. There are also some things in the document that are clearly mistakes. 20:21:04 i don't know how much binning results from intentionally destroying chips vs. yield on subcomponents 20:21:10 that'd be the 2006 test i guess 20:21:24 well, eight years then, that's... mediocre\ 20:21:35 Since north korea is pretty much isolated from the world, if they keep the radiation in north korea I don't really care 20:21:54 what a bizarre sentiment 20:22:09 Jafet 20:22:12 it all becomes global soon enough 20:22:14 Compare to, say, american nuclear tests 20:22:19 trade embargos and border controls don't stop fallout 20:22:38 (if we are talking about fallout and not just the radiation from the explosion itself) 20:25:45 I also am making the Z-Comp with is a competition for writing Z-machine games. Go to ifMUD, enter apartment 11011, and then go northwest. 20:27:57 There are some rules such as: no version 6, no Unicode, no Blorb, no extra sound effects, and you have to make the SHA-1 checksum when posting the file. 20:29:35 what's a blorb 20:29:48 it's a text adventure extentiony format, iirc 20:33:06 Version 10 can have up to 256K RAM, and up to 2M ROM, so you may be able to have many more objects and text than how much fits in a version 7 or 8 story file. 20:34:22 There's a version 10? 20:34:33 Crud, this thing I'm reading only describes up to 8 I think 20:35:00 zzo38, hmm... ifMUD has apartments?I 20:35:04 I'm interested no 20:35:05 w 20:35:19 what's the rent like 20:35:24 Version 9 and 10 is something I added to the Z-machine standard, as well as other things; see: http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/z9.txt 20:35:36 Sgeo_: ifmud.org port 4000 to connect 20:35:46 Bike: You don't have to pay rent, you just need an account. 20:35:52 cheap 20:35:55 is the landlord decent 20:36:00 I know M*U*S*H has apartments 20:36:06 Bike: Yes, I think so. 20:36:43 coo 20:37:14 zzo38, is ifMUD supposed to only be able interactive fiction? 20:37:40 Sgeo_: Mainly. Not necessarily only. 20:39:24 tf confuses me 20:39:28 Maybe I'll try again later 20:39:39 Transformers? 20:40:16 tinyfugue 20:40:23 Hmm, it's mostly conversational these days? 20:40:31 Reminds me of LambdaMOO a bit if so 20:40:32 I just use nc and it works fine, so see if it works better? 20:40:47 You use netcat for a mud? 20:40:49 Sgeo_: Mainly, although there are many other things too, you can look around at various things. 20:41:21 Is it MUSH based? I think I like the MOO concepts better, from a purely programming perspective 20:41:31 If ifMUD is anything like M*U*S*H 20:41:46 Bike: Yes, it works just fine for me, although it might be improve if the input/output are in different colors. 20:42:30 Will learning about Z-machines help at all understanding real machines? 20:42:42 the only real machine is the transistor, hth 20:42:54 Sgeo_: I don't know, but ifMUD using JotaCode programming. Your description is allowed to contain a program if you want to (my own description doesn't, although some of my other fields and objects contain programs). 20:43:15 what do you want to learn about Real Machines 20:43:27 My own dbref in ifMUD is #20071 (in case you need it for any reason) 20:43:30 zzo38, hmm... 20:43:42 I haven't seen JotaCode 20:44:03 Ick, fundamental types 20:44:09 Yeah, probably going to get MUSH 20:44:11 MUSHy 20:44:42 My plan contains a JotaCode program (although programs don't run in plans, but % substitutions do run in plans). 20:44:48 * Sgeo_ starts reading http://www.plover.net/~davidw/jotatips.html 20:45:12 @print(@setfield(*player,"plan",@fieldloop("%4","",@replace("%f %v%c","%%","%%%%"))),"OK.") 20:45:13 Unknown command, try @list 20:45:25 say here 20:45:26 You say, "#9676" 20:45:47 So, is there some way to get the dbref of the room without saying it outloud? 20:46:04 Sgeo_: Yes. Type "examine here", or "ex here" if you have an account. 20:46:37 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:46:42 ....why 'if I have an account'? Are guests unable to examine 20:46:43 ? 20:46:47 Many of my own objects (including myself) are set examinable, so you can see codes that way. 20:46:57 Sgeo_: No, guests cannot abbreviate. 20:47:10 that's a weird restriction... 20:48:04 In LambdaMOO, if you want to write code, you need to get a programmer's bit. It's easy to get one automatically by asking an NPC butler, but it's still a thing you have to do 20:48:32 If ifMUD you automatically get it just by having an account. 20:49:16 Since all accounts have it and guests don't, Z-Comp uses it to prevent guests from entering and voting (although guests can still view it). 20:55:43 zzo38: why no unicode? 20:55:58 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 20:56:33 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:57:57 nooodl: Because this Z-Comp is ZSCII only. 21:01:33 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:02:01 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Client Quit). 21:02:24 -!- NihilistDandy has joined. 21:03:08 I kinda want to learn how to make Minecraft mods 21:03:18 But I have a worrying feeling that that involves learning Java 21:03:29 Java's fine 21:03:35 Taneb: you already know Java 21:03:37 i mean it's not fun to write 21:03:46 but the language is pretty simple and reasonable, there isn't a lot of crazy bullshit to learn 21:04:07 The libraries more than make up for that... 21:04:10 cpressey, since when do I know Java? 21:04:24 yes, I suppose some of the libraries are crazy bullshit... 21:05:20 Taneb: my mistake. I thought you already knew Java. 21:05:25 how many libraries do you need for minecraft 21:05:36 Bike, possibly LWJGL 21:06:05 Well, you probably need the standard libraries 21:07:54 So, the question is, should I learn Java? 21:08:06 Yeah, sure. 21:08:23 put it on your resume. learn javabeans 21:08:33 You should learn mining 21:09:09 It's "close to the metal" as they say 21:09:30 haha 21:09:36 :P 21:09:43 "psh, you learn assembly? that's not close enough to the ore" i say, coughing coal dust in your face 21:10:40 Coal isn't a metal, you poser 21:11:03 There's an old lead mine near here 21:12:09 “Mines are supposed to be *below* ground, I’d thought,” Jones continued. 21:12:09 “Aren’t you a graduate of the Colorado School of Mines?” Zula asked. 21:12:09 Jones, for once, looked a bit sheepish. “They should probably change the name. It’s not just about that. I only went there to learn how to blow things up. I don’t know squat about mines really.” 21:12:45 i know a guy who attended that school! i should ask him about destroying things 21:13:26 Oh, is Reamde good? 21:13:50 yeah i had fun reading it, it consumed most of my free time from beginning to end 21:14:24 that said it's more of a straightforward techno-thriller a la Clancy, rather than the trademark Stephenson meandering world-building 21:15:19 i'm not sure what to think of stephenson now that i've realized "he's serious", so to speak 21:15:25 heh 21:15:32 well Snow Crash isn't a very serious book 21:15:51 it's definitely a send-up of 80s cyberpunk, even as it embraces the awesomeness of the genre 21:16:28 i don't know, what do you mean by that exactly 21:17:06 well uh, have you read in the beginning was the command line 21:17:15 no / not in a long time 21:17:39 well he like divides society into people who know what they're doing and people who just go along with it 21:18:09 sounds like recent pratchett 21:18:11 and well i'm not really sure what to think of the views of society in his books ay more 21:18:15 any* 21:18:25 -!- rashni has joined. 21:18:33 course. i haven't read an actual novel in over a year, anyway 21:18:56 -!- rashni has left. 21:18:57 i never got a strong sense that he's preaching about How Society Really Works in any of his books 21:19:06 maybe Diamond Age a bit 21:19:12 Isn't that how society really works 21:19:29 Well, there's also the people who only think they know 21:19:55 a nuanced and realistic analysis of society and policy 21:21:38 pigs, dogs, and sheep 21:22:31 ha ha, charade you are 21:29:16 Are there any languages designed to compile into Z-machine code? 21:29:27 Could Haskell be made to compile into Z-machine code? 21:29:57 Sgeo_: There is ZIL and Inform, and I am working on writing Berzio. 21:30:10 once you start down the zzo38 path, forever will it dominate your destiny 21:30:15 I suppose a Haskell library could be made to represent Z-machine code and then compile it into a Z-machine story file. 21:30:28 The Z monad? 21:30:46 Although I think my mind wants to abuse the Writer monad all the time 21:30:50 Sgeo_: Using monads and/or whatever, I suppose 21:31:57 I was thinking, use Typeable to represent global variables, routines, objects, etc and then use SSA or something like that, and use ContT monad to make up some monad to make a Z-machine code, and then use datatypes which are compile into a Z-machine story file or assembly language. 21:32:04 Sgeo_: http://imgur.com/4GoXLSB did you get to this part in The Tangled Web yet? i'm thinking about this attack and I think I understand what's going on 21:32:30 Inform has various restrictions, so some others might be better for many things. 21:32:30 pretty tricky 21:32:32 "Each object in the tree may have a parent, a sibling and a child. " 21:32:47 Only one child? Maybe just one pointer to a child? 21:33:04 Sgeo_: It means the first child. It is the number of the child, not the address. 21:33:34 kmc, yes 21:33:48 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:33:59 You can set a cookie to secure, but you can't say 'for this domain, only accept secure cookies' 21:34:27 -!- Bike_ has quit (Client Quit). 21:34:29 right 21:34:34 Oh, hmm, says you'd need to 'overflow the cookie jar' 21:34:35 hm 21:34:40 HSTS might mitigate this though 21:34:45 -!- Bike_ has joined. 21:34:45 -!- Bike has quit (Disconnected by services). 21:34:49 I don't think you need to overflow the cookie jar though 21:35:32 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 21:35:41 i'm thinking about an attacker who has a network MITM capability and also controls a malicious site (well, they can get that using the MITM too, but irrelevant) 21:36:14 zzo38, http://www.gnelson.demon.co.uk/zspec/overview.html 21:36:30 In that example object tree, would "small mailbox" have a parent? 21:36:36 the malicious site makes an unencrypted request to the target site, it doesn't even matter if that server listens on port 80 because the attacker MITMs the request and responds with a Set-Cookie header setting the CSRF token cookie 21:36:42 Even those West of House's child is you, and not small mailbox? 21:37:27 kmc, what if a secure cookie is already set, how would the browser respond in that case if you didn't overflow the jar, I think is the question 21:37:28 then they can construct a proper request forgery to the real HTTPS site including the correct token 21:37:40 Sgeo_: doesn't a new Set-Cookie of the same name overwrite the old one? 21:37:55 i guess it might refuse to overwrite a secure cookie with a non-secure one, yeah 21:38:17 kmc, I thought so, but the fact that that texts suggests overflowing the cookie jar first... 21:38:21 yeah 21:38:33 so does HSTS mitigate this attack 21:38:53 does it prevent making unencrypted requests at all, or does it just translate when the user types foo.com to https://foo.com 21:40:10 Sgeo_: Yes. The location's first child is the player, although the mailbox is one of its children too. 21:40:26 There are also assemblers of Z-machine, such as ZAP and Frolg. 21:40:39 Z-machine can also be programmed in C and in Forth. 21:40:58 How about Factor? :D 21:42:04 I don't think so. 21:42:10 I'm starting to enjoy Factor 21:42:31 I do think a Haskell library to represent Z-machine codes would be good to have, though. 21:45:37 zzo38, if a game doesn't want to use static memory, is that possible to not have any? 21:46:07 Oh I guess you could have $0e point to where the end of static memory would e 21:47:17 Sgeo_: Yes, the static memory is not necessary; dynamic memory acts the same anyways (except that it is also writable, storable in save data, etc) 21:48:07 16-bit addresses. Kind of sucks 21:48:24 I guess I have to keep the historical context in mind 21:48:34 There are also packed addresses though. 21:48:59 Didn't get up to reading what those are yet 21:49:01 Object property tables, dictionary tables, etc don't use packed addresses, however. 21:49:59 However, my own version 9 and 10 addresses for property table and dictionary table are half and quarter of the actual address, allowing you to have up to 256K RAM. 21:50:36 But, as far as I know, the only interpreter so far that support version 9 and 10 is my own interpreter, called "Fweep". 21:52:10 "Note that the total of dynamic plus static memory must not exceed 64K. (In fact, 64K minus 2 bytes.) This is the most serious limitation on the Z-machine (though it has not yet been reached by anyone)." 21:52:18 not yet been reached by anyone? o.O 21:52:44 64k is a lot of text innit 21:52:50 Well, it has almost been reached, by now. 21:53:29 Bike: The text is normally stored in ROM, though; the RAM is limited to 64K and that stores object headers, property tables, dictionary tables, and a few other things. 21:53:54 zzo38, I thought that static memory was the ROM? 21:54:06 And that 64k was RAM+ROM? 21:54:33 Sgeo_: High memory is also the ROM, although it may actually be stored on disk rather than ROM in some interpreters, it is actually ROM. 21:56:58 'It is dangerous to rely on the ANSI C random number routines, as some implementations of these are very poor. This has made some games (in particular, 'Balances') unwinnable on some Unix ports of Zip.' 21:57:16 haha 21:57:59 'Z-machine text is a sequence of ZSCII character codes (ZSCII is a system similar to ASCII: see S 3.8 below). ' 21:58:46 zzo38: There is already a Z-machine implementation in Haskell. 21:58:46 Z-characters are 5 bits 21:59:08 shachaf: Yes, there is Z-machine interpreter already, but I meant compiler 21:59:09 I once fixed it up to work with modern GHC but never ended up getting the changes merged. 22:01:02 * Sgeo_ wonders if ZSCII is more compact than ASCII for plain English text 22:01:39 5-bit characters. Getting to uppercase characters is done with a special character that shifts the alphabet for the next character. 22:01:43 Sgeo_: Z-character is different from ZSCII, Z-character is 5-bits coding, ZSCII is 8-bits. It is more compact, it is why it is used. 22:01:45 (Same with symbols) 22:03:01 zzo38, I suspect ALL CAPS-LOCKED TEXT WOULD NOT BE MORE EFFICIENT IN ZSCII THAN ASCII FOR VERSIONS GREATER THAN TWO 22:03:25 Sgeo_: Yes, that is true (unless you set up the alphabet table for all-caps) 22:04:46 Modifying the alphabet table at runtime is possible (so is repointing property tables, and other unusual things), but as far as I know no existing games use that. 22:05:47 Modify the alphabet at runtime to add a CAPS LOCK codepoint. 22:05:52 hth 22:06:03 How would you encode 3 Z-characters in ZSCII? 22:06:11 Erm, wait 22:06:22 How would you encode 4 Z-characters in ZSCII? 22:06:57 ZSCII is a 8-bit encoding it isn't the same as Z-characters. Z-characters is encoded using three in one 16-bit word; you need more than one if you want more than 3 Z-characters. 22:09:09 But how do you specify that one or two of the Z-characters in 2 bytes are unused? 22:09:25 You can put extra shifts and shiftlocks in them. 22:09:48 What happens if you shift a shift? 22:09:59 kmc: having fun? 22:10:04 I don't know, but if you put them only at the end it doesn't matter. 22:10:06 'In Versions 3 and later, the current alphabet is always A0 unless changed for 1 character only: Z-characters 4 and 5 are shift characters. Thus 4 means "the next character is in A1" and 5 means "the next is in A2". There are no shift lock characters.' 22:10:06 not really 22:10:24 Does 4 even mean that if the previous character was a shift? 22:10:30 shachaf: do you think what I said in ##crypto was fairly reasonable? 22:11:17 Sgeo_: It is unclear; I don't think it is defined, but either way it won't print anything at the end of the Z-characters text, regardless of the state. 22:11:25 I only read the last page or so but it seemed reasonable to me. 22:12:17 This person also says that the worst bug they've ever had in a Haskell program took 15 minutes to fix, or something along those lines. 22:13:13 -!- carado has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:17 Z-machine code as a way of compressing English text... only output opcodes allowed... 22:13:20 good idea, bad idea? 22:13:39 -!- carado has joined. 22:13:49 Although, even just using the text encoding stuff would be a win, possibly especially with abbreviations 22:14:02 all ideas are good aren't they? 22:14:22 shachaf: the worst bug I've ever had in a Haskell program took about 2 weeks (on and off) to find 22:14:29 it was some subtle math error in a 3D renderer 22:14:46 Sgeo_: Well, it does work; Z-characters is a OK way to compress English text slightly, in a simple way. 22:14:48 pretty much impossible for a language to prevent that, I think 22:15:18 even with theorem proving, you are just as likely to make that error when you teach the computer the axioms of optics 22:15:27 probably a lot more likely because it will be a lot more code 22:15:47 I think you also have to program in the correct kind of logic into the computer? 22:15:48 I like Haskell but I don't think it's a panacea. 22:15:57 yep, me too 22:16:03 shachaf: Yes, same to me 22:16:46 at some point saying "Well, you can write high-performance Haskell code with many years of careful study and huge effort invested into every project" is sort of not a very good endorsement 22:17:17 -!- NihilistDandy has quit (Quit: leaving). 22:18:02 GHC Haskell performance is great for most projects, certainly for anything where people typically use Python or Ruby or whatever 22:18:45 kmc: I think you are correct, isn't very good in that case, but it is OK for some thing and is OK to make things in the mathematical way done by Haskell programs, even though it might be too large, too slow (if not sufficiently optimized), etc 22:18:53 but I'm skeptical of the cases where you introduce a huge amount of ugly and unsafe and compiler-specific and brittle code in order to get acceptable performance 22:19:04 zzo38, do a lot of games use custom alphabet tables? 22:19:06 "i too think some things are good and other things are bad" 22:19:21 unless it's like a core library that's going to be used by a lot of high level idiomatic Haskell code 22:19:51 kmc: a while back i saw somebody working on some set of benchmarks with CL by writing in a bunch of inline asm and like what's the damn point 22:20:37 Sgeo_: As far as I know the only one is the German translation of Zork, but I think it could be used in order to modify at runtime to make one part of game type out everything in all-caps or to make all input/output to be ROT13 in one location, or whatever 22:21:36 Maybe I should try Zork at some point 22:21:40 Bike: yeah. the ATS examples in the Shootout are like that as well, iirc 22:21:52 'The character set of the Z-machine is called ZSCII (Zork Standard Code for Information Interchange; pronounced to rhyme with "xyzzy")' 22:22:01 ATS? 22:22:03 kmc: on the other hand you'd produce the first 3D renderer to have any kind of proof associated with it 22:22:05 That's an incredibly helpful pronunciation guide 22:22:18 the american thoracic society 22:22:23 http://www.ats-lang.org/ 22:22:24 "Applied Type System"? 22:22:37 Bike: http://www.ats-lang.org/ it's, uh, a dependently typed systems language? i can't figure out what it is really because the docs are beyond unreadable 22:22:54 sounds good 22:23:14 the front page says it has pointer arithmetic but they used asm too huh 22:23:17 @quote kmc tutorial 22:23:17 kmc says: i started to read the "tutorial" and it was incomprehensible. makes the Gentle Introduction to Haskell look like Teach Yourself PHP in 24 Hours 22:23:34 i think i got a pimple just from reading that, it's so dorky 22:24:02 ty 22:24:08 looks like they've changed the site though? 22:24:14 maybe the tutorial is new and improved 22:25:40 "In practice the text compression factor is not really very good: for instance, 155000 characters of text squashes into 99000 bytes. (Text usually accounts for about 75\% of a story file.) Encoding does at least encrypt the text so that casual browsers can't read it. Well-chosen abbreviations will reduce total story file size by 10\% or so." 22:29:15 Sgeo_: Yes, it isn't particularly good, but it is a simple way that works for this purpose. 22:30:03 Crazy idea, hooking up a Z-machine interpreter to PSOX 22:30:44 There are various other things I can think of to reduce file size and do other things, although I don't know if any compilers do many of these things. 22:30:58 Hmm, I guess Z-machine interpreters don't use stdio in a typical way 22:32:02 Sgeo_: It might be done by adding an extra input/output stream for PSOX, although yes it is crazy 22:32:11 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:38:12 What does "warning: pointer type mismatch in conditional expression" mean? 22:38:55 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 22:38:55 Actually I figured it out 22:40:36 -!- Bike has joined. 22:50:52 -!- sprocklem has joined. 22:53:48 -!- elieser224 has joined. 22:54:22 hola 22:54:27 `welcome elieser224 22:54:35 elieser224: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:55:16 -!- elieser224 has left. 22:56:51 Other kind of esoteric? 22:57:18 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:00:14 I have a variety of thoughts that I wouldn't express outloud, yet I don't class as 'intrusive', and ... I haven't expressed them outloud 23:00:27 So why am I so scared that I'll end up saying this one intrusive thought outloud 23:01:07 Maybe I'm scared that somewhere deep down I agree with it, even though I hope that I don't 23:01:40 PM it to fungot 23:01:40 kmc: but it's a very interesting idea 23:02:16 fizzie can't read messages sent to fungot right? 23:02:17 Sgeo_: hehe psykotic :) as long as it's legal to own property there, without being asked to do all this before? 23:03:07 ^style 23:03:07 Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube 23:03:15 If I type it to fungot, what if it opens the gates for me saying it again in the future 23:03:16 Sgeo_: so dashboard comes up a lot of work to write. do you know of extra documentation it'd be great to test dynamic loading too if you want 23:03:21 ^style ct 23:03:21 Selected style: ct (Chrono Trigger game script) 23:06:35 Well, I typed it into a text editor, then backspaced over it 23:08:34 Well, the local factory is on fire 23:10:55 Goodnight 23:10:56 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:12:47 One of the strongest intrusive thoughts I had as a kid was the number "666", which I felt I had to counter by thinking "777"... but the big reason that intrusive thought doesn't bother me anymore is because I see nothing wrong with the number 666. That seems like a bad way to resolve this particular thought 23:15:05 Sgeo_: I can read the last few of them. 23:15:32 Oh 23:15:34 (It echoes the raw IRC input, but doesn't log anything, so it's up to screen window scrollback.) 23:18:45 (Mostly as a debugging tool.) 23:29:39 -!- sprocklem has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:34:21 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:34:45 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 23:43:09 -!- elieser2241 has joined. 23:43:24 -!- elieser2241 has left.