00:00:34 oerjan: presumably they plugged that hole and that's why we don't hear about it any more :tinfoil: 00:01:41 i feel bad that i don't care more about massive government surveilance 00:02:40 i personally don't have anything to hide, but i like living in a free democratic society and not one where (say) journalists are imprisoned arbitrarily based on secret surveillance 00:02:53 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:03:20 how do you know you like it 00:03:22 have you ever tried 00:06:13 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:07:36 elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code 00:15:36 -!- Bike has joined. 00:16:38 Bike: why are you stalking Fiora while she pokes at code please stop immediately hth 00:17:16 eh what 00:17:49 see what happens when you don't logread. 00:17:56 17:06 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:17:59 17:07 elliott: oh, thanks! I hope it made sense to someone who a) wasn't me and b) wasn't bike who followed along as I poked at the code 00:18:02 17:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-38-181.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #esoteric 00:18:05 hth 00:18:15 glad we had this talk 00:18:27 bike was the one who suggested the life thing to begin with <.< 00:18:31 and we like, talked about hashlife and stuff 00:18:34 and he explained hashlife to me 00:18:58 hashlife? i think kmc is our expert on that (drugz joke) 00:19:06 Bike, plz explain hashlife to me 00:19:13 -!- madbr has joined. 00:19:15 ok 00:19:37 so, a given game of life is going to have a lot of repetitious space, for example huge empty areas 00:20:02 Fiora: i hope you are not assuming i am serious. (ever.) 00:20:08 like bob's mom 00:20:38 Bike, i mean the technical details 00:20:42 bob was there too 00:20:51 uh, which technical details 00:21:17 confoerjan 00:21:22 basically you store life as a quadtree structure and take advantage of the fact that a block N spaces away from another block can't affect it for N time iterations? like the speed of light thing 00:21:59 speed of life 00:22:40 mm, so wait, do you work out how a given causally closed region evolves over generations then just iterate that? 00:22:47 life isn't a circle but a quadtree, check 00:22:52 Phantom_Hoover: not quite 00:23:31 Phantom_Hoover: each region of space 2^n across has an center 2^(n-1) width area that can be simulated 2^(n-2) steps ahead without reference to any other 2^n block 00:23:51 I think I've figured why the pentium2 dominated and still dominates despite having such a low instruction-per-cycle count (4, 3 in older versions... the pentium 1 could do 2) 00:23:58 speculative load/store 00:24:21 i don't know if what you do is "iterat[ing] that" exactly, it's more like just frustrums in space time (band name etc) 00:24:22 Bike, ah, so you iterate those? 00:24:29 well 00:24:45 if you want 2^(n-3) or whatever ahead you can take the future of the future, yeah 00:25:01 doesn't nearly everything have speculative load-store nowadays? 00:25:10 not ARMs 00:25:17 oh. I guess I really only know x86 -_- 00:25:34 not stuff like power6 (in order!) 00:25:36 I remember a thing in the optimization guides even about problems caused by too many cancelled/failed speculative loads and how to deal with them 00:25:40 and like how big the penalties are and stuff 00:26:22 working on this design and memory aliasing is the big, big problem 00:26:59 Bike: have you considered moving to california 00:27:04 Phantom_Hoover: rather than iterating exactly it's more like you can go deeper and deeper into the future within a region while restricting the size of that future 00:27:31 like, split branching (different iterations going different ways of a branch) is another problem but that's fixable 00:28:31 memory aliasing is much worse and unless compilers are very good at guessing what can't alias I'm going to have to have some sort of software anti-alias or else compilers will never output optimized code 00:29:23 which means I'd go from 2 memory opcodes (load, store) to 7 (load, load-lock, load-check, store, store-unlock, lock, unlock) 00:30:01 plus probably having to save/load the state of the antialias buffer on interrupts (unless the interrupt handler doesn't use antialias) 00:32:00 obviously this takes a dump on my instruction set design, which I'm trying to keep simple (ie I'm ending up with an almost perfect copy of mips :( ) 00:33:01 need to figure out a load/store antialias mechanism that isn't heinous 00:36:31 oerjan: me? 00:37:07 memory access is so awful on CPU designs, it's probably the main thing that's holding back instructions-per-cycle 00:37:40 -!- kategory has quit (Quit: i spell kopumpkin with a k). 00:38:41 if it weren't for that there would be no need for GPUs and every game wouldn't all look the same 00:39:05 shachaf: help why did you version me 00:39:21 elliott: i might ask you the same question 00:39:59 Spam subject: 00:40:05 "Obama endorses herbal supplements" 00:40:10 copumpkin: THANKS 00:40:30 Seems like that could turn people away 00:40:31 elliott: oh, you're back, did you get my message...? 00:40:34 Some people anyway 00:43:03 Fiora: sorry, yes 00:43:11 it made sense! 00:43:36 once i figured out that the handwritten "lut" was a "lut" (i am awful at reading handwriting, always) 00:44:01 also it might just be my browser but the first line shows as "(Or, “how I made Life 84 times faster, with )" here 00:44:26 i kept thinking "lut" was like "lub" 00:44:26 yeah for me as well 00:44:40 i really like the fish shaped script l 00:44:45 oops. going to fix that 00:44:51 I think I picked up a fondness for it while hand-writing physics homeworks or something 00:45:02 fixed 00:45:11 sorry for my crappy mousewriting :p 00:45:22 (is that a good word for it? handwriting with a mouse? XD) 00:45:22 oh, I was actually going to ask if you had a drawing tablet 00:45:34 I have one, but I scribbed those in free time at work <.< 00:45:36 cause it's pretty smooth 00:45:36 ah 00:45:37 *scribbled 00:46:16 i should read the article a second time and focus on details more 00:46:29 I like it too. it's easier to tell apart from an I I think 00:46:34 especially with handwriting where you don't have serifs 00:46:36 yes 00:46:45 (and it looks pretty) 00:46:53 i write the variable l that way too 00:47:03 mostly because my l is otherwise indistinguishable from a 1 00:47:05 yeah I use it (and have seen it used) in LaTeX too 00:47:05 or an I 00:47:10 \ell 00:47:10 oh right, a 1 too 00:47:12 that's even worse 00:47:19 i write a 1 with a big flag and base 00:47:43 \minesweeper1 00:54:16 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 00:54:33 Fiora: hm so I'm trying to understand this http://media.tumblr.com/5da179ea25622b1cfe2c5beb0136babd/tumblr_inline_mnxxj1SBUP1qz4rgp.png 00:55:18 what's the type of lut[x]? 00:55:41 it's a vector of 8 bytes, each one a cell count? 00:56:09 it's a vector of 8 4-bit values, but when adding it the corner case could cause the values to overflow to 5 bits 00:56:21 so we just expand it to 8 bits per value, so each entry is a 64-bit (8x8bit) 00:56:42 (we'd probably have to do that anyways since pshufb takes 8-bit arguments) 00:56:46 ok 00:57:11 so when you say "= (E<<3) + (A+...+I)", that's the equation for each of those 8 counts? 00:57:18 Yeah, that's the idea 00:57:25 for the respective A,...,I making up that neighborhood 00:57:26 ok 00:57:36 so we get 8 of those with 3 lookups, basically. 00:57:53 -!- madbr has joined. 00:59:00 sorry, that one wasn't that clear, it kind of omits the whole simd thing of "we're actually doing this eight times" 00:59:26 ah i see, so there's one set of LUTs that goes from cell rows to sums + current cell, and another LUT that goes from those back to new cell rows 00:59:43 Yeah, the last one is just 16 entries though. 00:59:53 and you have to truncate to 4 bits for the second step, but that works out because the elements that alias happen to have the same value 00:59:56 convenient :) 00:59:59 so I kind of feel like it's a different thing, since the other LUTs are 16 kilobytes XD 01:00:08 ha, true 01:00:09 yup, that was a total accident by the way 01:00:13 that was not smartness 01:00:21 that was "oops totally overlooked that oh wait it works" 01:00:58 did you profile the actual cache misses in this code? 01:01:44 I didn't do any profiling, but I think this should basically fit in cache? 01:02:00 it's 16 kilobytes of lookup table + the life board, I guess 01:02:10 so like I guess it'll overflow a bit but not too much? 01:02:27 it'd probably be pretty easy to profile though 01:02:39 on linux you can use 'perf' to count cache misses 01:02:41 don't know about windows 01:02:55 yeah, I use perf sometimes, I was just kind of lazy and didn't feel like copying it over to linux ^^; 01:02:59 :) 01:03:07 I... guess I could do that now? XD 01:03:23 Your code compiles under x86_64-linux-gnu! 01:03:31 yay 01:03:57 it's basically horrific code, like, I tuned the inner loop size for... what happened to be the size gcc would happily unroll at -O3 -_- 01:04:23 that seems to be a fine heuristic 01:04:57 oprofile has some good profiling things 01:05:09 i used to use that 01:05:32 huh. gcc complains about aliasing in 4.8 @_@ I wonder why, the life board is uint8_t and it should be okay to dereference that as uint32_t 01:05:36 I guess it might just be wrong? :< 01:07:13 it's safe because char* is exempt from strict aliasing rules? 01:07:35 I think so? I thought you could access anything as char and Some Other Type 01:08:12 yeah I'm reading now that char and unsigned char are equivalent for this purpose, as well 01:08:18 and uint8_t should be a typedef for unsigned char 01:08:35 does the gcc warning give any more information? 01:09:34 Um... okay so... perf -e L1-dcache-load-misses I guess 01:09:59 it says there's... 820 events... 86.46% in the kernel... 8.93% in "fast"... 1.62% in "slow" 01:10:27 and gcc... 01:10:32 "life.c: In function ‘update_board_fast’: 01:10:33 life.c:99:9: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasi 01:10:35 ng rules [-Wstrict-aliasing] uintptr_t line1 = ((*(uint32_t*)&LIFE_PACKED(x-1, 0)) >> 3) & 0x3ff0; ^" 01:13:41 Sgeo: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/342326443193282560 01:14:15 does carmack know about rust 01:14:47 (Different tweet) "For reliability, I would take a GC'd and memory safe dynamic language over strong typing in C/C++, but it isn't too much to ask for both!" 01:15:20 biased against ada's "strong typing" after reading about it having different types for indices into different arrays 01:15:30 Actually, C and C++'s static typing kind of sucks 01:15:38 if all goes well i will be a professional Rust programmer soon :) 01:15:41 which (the source said and) struck me as missing the point 01:15:50 kmc: jealous!! 01:16:04 is that the plan now 01:16:09 maybe 01:16:10 -!- madbr has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 01:16:33 I remember using perf was really frustrating in general because I had to like, manually look up all the event codes in the intel handbook 01:16:45 kmc should sneak me into mozilla, I am pretty short so we could just pose as one really tall person like in films 01:16:54 and it didn't seem to work with the precise events so they all had that thing where the results lag the instruction that actually caused it >_< 01:17:04 so you'd see a bunch of cache misses 30 lines after the thing that missed the cache 01:17:05 elliott: i'm already really tall person :/ 01:17:10 Fiora: dang 01:17:13 kmc: just say u had a growing spurt 01:17:22 kmc: foolproof 01:17:26 Fiora: Yes, that's annoying. 01:17:40 it was kinda useful? but like it took a lot of poking and guessing 01:17:49 elliott: but what if kmc talks to people who aren't fools 01:17:51 checkmate 01:18:01 who is the greater fool 01:18:06 kmc's tall, he can just like, hide you inside of his trenchcoat 01:18:18 does kmc own a trenchcoat 01:18:24 a question I have never considered before today 01:18:31 does elliott? 01:18:47 i've considered many times buying a trenchcoat 01:18:47 i can start owning one if it's needed for operation mozilla 01:18:58 trenchcoat ownership is required for joining this channel 01:18:58 elliott: you could also, like, apply to work at mozilla through the usual channels 01:19:07 * Fiora doesn't have one either 01:19:10 kmc: that sounds kind of hard 01:19:13 what happened to operation strathclyde 01:19:30 kmc: i heard you have to know someone on the inside for them to care about your application........ 01:19:39 s/\.//g 01:19:44 kmc: also I'm not sure a 17 year old w/o any relevant qualifications is in mozilla's "demographic" 01:19:45 i thought i had a trenchcoat but it turned out to be a sport jacket sitting on another sport jacket's shoulders. very disappointing 01:19:54 Phantom_Hoover: if you think about it, california is basically strathclyde 01:20:02 both unknowable. both eternal. both terrifying 01:20:18 elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla 01:20:20 qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute 01:20:44 * Bike notes "possibly cute" on his resume 01:21:01 i can confirm that elliott is possibly cute 01:21:19 i used to be a 17-year-old loser programmer 01:21:24 now i am a 25-year-old winner programmer? 01:21:26 then you turned 18? 01:21:32 burn! 01:21:41 I-I didn't mean that as a burn! 01:21:44 :D 01:21:47 Fiora: TOO LATE 01:22:04 :< 01:22:05 welcome to the mean side 01:22:28 maybe kmc turned winner before turning 18 01:22:36 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 01:22:37 i had a coworker who was 17 for a while 01:22:39 then he turned 18 01:22:48 I think I was 17 once 01:22:51 I don't remember it much though 01:22:51 now he goes to caltech!!!! "kmc's future past self??" 01:22:58 :O 01:23:17 i went to caltech when i was 16 tho 01:23:20 O_O 01:23:24 kmc really is a genius 01:23:32 only a little 01:23:33 kmc: he only went when he was 19 i think 01:23:40 i know way too many motherfuckers who attended college early by which i mean: any 01:23:52 too many motherfuckers in motherfucking college 01:23:56 yes 01:23:59 Bike: you know me to balance it out!! hth 01:23:59 get out of college!! 01:24:04 I... I attended when I was 17... I don't think it counts as early though because I didn't skip any high school 01:24:09 shachaf: i also know myself 01:24:11 i didn't skip any high school, only middle school 01:24:17 02:20:18 elliott: it's kind of weird that the only 17-year-old loser programmer i caan think of got hired by mozilla 01:24:21 Fiora: well so did i but that's just because of a clerical weirdness 01:24:22 because middle school was beyond worthless 01:24:23 I skipped like um... a little bit of kindergarten I think 01:24:29 I don't remember >_< 01:24:29 Bike: doing wonders for my self-esteem here! 01:24:44 elliott: i dunno, bbeing jwz would be pretty cool. 01:24:50 for example, he got the fuck out of that business 01:24:52 02:20:20 qualifications: genius, from hexham, possibly cute 01:24:59 Fiora: who gave you this confidential information 01:25:05 you :3 01:25:12 my own worst enemy............. 01:25:16 did jwz work at netscape when he was 17 01:25:18 is that the joke here 01:25:25 i think he did yes 01:25:31 he worked for netscape without having a degree 01:25:35 am i cute y/n 01:25:55 am i kawaii? uguu 01:26:00 he got out of the software industry and into the industry of cleaning up puke, dealing with flaky event promoters, and being harassed by the cops 24/7 01:26:09 big step up imo 01:26:11 yep 01:26:33 i think i had like several opportunities to skip huge amounts of early school 01:26:45 but turned them down because i didn't really know what was going on 01:26:54 which is a bit annoying in retrospect 01:26:55 Bike: you can borrow some of my moe ! 01:26:56 good now you're not a huge nerd like kmc 01:27:05 elliott: how can you skip yourself 01:27:07 logic plz 01:27:10 Fiora: uh excuse you i ooze "the bish" 01:27:16 Bike: have you read the DNA Lounge blog 01:27:24 it's fairly entertaining 01:27:26 occasionally 01:27:30 i liked the fire department saga 01:27:37 if you start at the beginning it's like 2 years of him bitching about every aspect of construction 01:27:50 jwz seems like a nice guy, i mean as far as cynical jerks go 01:27:53 with occasional neat technical interludes about electrical systems, or how they pump the beer through those big tubes 01:27:56 Bike: yes, you and your floofy hair 01:28:40 elliott: it helps that he posts stupid youtube videos and such 01:29:37 http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/log/2001/01/juice2.html 01:29:54 ._. 01:29:59 THREE 01:30:07 seven tubes of beer, one of antifreeze 01:30:11 don't mess up the splice 01:31:25 so, on to the crises of modern living 01:31:32 i am using a different os than i normally do 01:31:35 and my package manager 01:31:38 outputs emojis 01:31:56 good package manager 01:31:56 like 01:31:59 they display in full colour 01:32:29 installation success!! [KANGXI RADICAL FIGHT] 01:32:34 i think my whole worldview got destroyed and reconstructed from the ground up when i saw the package manager on my "other system" spontaneously render a mug of beer through my terminal 01:33:01 i believe that was the original idea behind project MKULTRA as well 01:33:06 is this Homebrew? 01:33:12 yes 01:33:13 it must be 01:33:25 it is yes 01:33:38 more like homebro 01:33:56 if the package manager didn't have cutesy thematic reasons to choose a mug of beer of all things I think I might have just turned off the computer and moved to mexico 01:34:08 no computers in mexico 01:34:24 leave my whole life behind, start a new one with the single goal of avoiding all emoji reproduction devices 01:34:36 kmc: are the homebrew developers bad too...... 01:34:50 i already hate'em because they rejected my MLton package for a bad reason years ago 01:34:51 probably not really 01:35:02 take that, people I don't know!!!! 01:35:28 we love you, elliott 01:35:29 they override CFLAGS on every package with -Os because they read somewhere that this makes the code smaller and just as fast as -O2 01:35:36 we miss you at school 01:35:43 do you think i could -- help you? 01:35:47 and they didn't bother to test this empirically or to determine whether it's logically possible from an understanding of computer science 01:35:52 kmc: right i knew they did the overriding compiler flags globally thing 01:35:54 which is a bit euuh 01:36:00 i love cflags 01:36:15 also I'm told that they have lots of special case hacks for particular packages in the homebrew core, in order to make the 'recipes' for those packages look nice and 'elegant' 01:36:19 you know, 01:36:19 but i figure, this is os x, everything is lawless and probably nothing is actually integrated as well as it seems and everything is a black box 01:36:19 ruby. 01:36:24 so who cares 01:36:40 so, why are you using os x again? 01:36:58 because it would be a pain to use my main computer 01:37:15 also it's technically worse than this one in basically every conceivable way except for having a bigger screen and running xmonad 01:39:19 kmc: so like I threw a bit more profiling at it and it looks like it's a little latency-bound on the pshufb+pmovmskb+store bit, which is kind of unsurprising I guess 01:39:47 at least I think that's what "stalled-cycles-backend" means? 01:39:59 when it has nothing to execute so the backend stalls 01:40:03 but I might be wrong 01:41:00 'backend' is, like, the box that hands out uops to functional units, or something? 01:41:51 I think "frontend" is like the instruction decoder/dispatch 01:41:54 and "backend" is execution? 01:42:07 -!- mnoqy has joined. 01:42:16 so a frontend stall I think means "nothing to decode, the instruction queue is full and the backend is busy" 01:42:22 and backend means "nothing to execute" ? 01:42:37 which I guess would mean... "I can't grab something off the uop queue this cycle" or something 01:42:41 I have no idea >_< 01:42:56 I could maybe look up that manual again... <.< 01:44:03 SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW is such a great codepoint. 01:44:37 isn't it just 01:45:05 U+XXXX MAN 01:46:03 ok 01:57:44 kmc: What's a good Unicode codepoint to represent mempty? 01:57:57 > foldMap NLeaf (S.fromList [1,2,3,4]) 01:57:59 (((mempty * 1) * mempty) * 2) * ((mempty * 3) * ((mempty * 4) * mempty)) 01:58:03 And "*", for that matter. 01:58:04 kmc: more OS X stories: clicked from the homebrew FAQ to a stack overflow question about setting paths so that GUI applications see the installed command-line stuff; it recommends setting up a shell script to launch at startup that runs an emacs lisp(!) script that works out the paths and shells out to launchctl 01:58:08 Fiora: would it make sense to interleave two copies of the computation using disjoint sets of xmm registers 01:58:21 it literally has no particular reason to be using elisp. it's just using elisp as a scripting language. holy shit 01:58:32 would that improve utilization of the execution units? 01:58:46 elliott: lool 01:59:00 this is just the idea of someone on SO right 01:59:02 "aren't you supposed to use Guile now" 01:59:12 well the FAQ recommends the answer!! 01:59:14 (find-file "~/.MacOSX/environment.plist") 01:59:14 (goto-char (point-min)) 01:59:14 (setq start (search-forward "\n")) 01:59:14 (search-forward "") 01:59:17 (beginning-of-line) 01:59:19 (delete-region start (point)) 01:59:22 this is not how you are meant to do scripting tasks. help 01:59:33 oh dear 01:59:53 is it also using regexps for xml 02:00:37 esr approved 02:01:13 uh this is annoying 02:01:18 all i want to do is use proof general in emacs 02:01:38 maybe you need that elisp script 02:02:00 does macos not play nice with using proof general in emacs 02:02:19 mnoqy: it's more homebrew i think 02:02:23 ah 02:02:23 or 02:02:23 well 02:02:26 it's kind of everything 02:02:29 have you tried agda-mode 02:02:33 emacs can't find coqtop & i'm not sure why 02:03:31 mnoqy: do you know where proof general looks for executables 02:03:54 aha 02:04:02 the emacs exec-path executable doesn't contain /usr/local/bin 02:04:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:04:59 is that where homebrew puts stuff 02:05:07 yes it uses /usr/local :/ 02:05:12 it also chowns /usr/local to your user 02:05:17 um 02:08:16 -!- oerjan has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:09:01 kmc: hey what do you call the two functions of an isomorphism 02:09:11 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 02:10:02 static vs dynamic typing debate is boring. More fun is whether or not static analysis is important 02:10:07 Racket vs Kernel 02:10:09 etc. 02:12:02 we need static analysis done dynamically obviously 02:12:16 elliott: "thisaway" and "thattaway". alt an isomorphism is just a morphism -with- an inverse--of course you'll be including the inverse as part of the evidence it has one but just a matter of framing the thought and names 02:12:42 Sgeo: ???? 02:12:45 Bike: what does that mean 02:12:56 nothing 02:13:01 D: 02:13:18 JIT! 02:14:44 mnoqy: are you kmc 02:15:02 mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit 02:15:34 idk & idk 02:15:45 respectively 02:16:15 "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................" 02:16:53 how useful 02:20:06 So, I have a prgmr account 02:20:10 Need to figure out what to do with it 02:20:38 shouldn't you have figured that out before bothering to get the account 02:20:47 that's not the Sgeo way 02:21:14 I had a few ideas, but not sure how well they would work out 02:21:22 Quassel is apparently a memory hog?? 02:21:34 how much ram do you have 02:22:21 512MB 02:22:33 mnoqy: hey wheres decidable defined 02:22:39 http://24.media.tumblr.com/70dd6d342b3cfa171257ae5f5db630eb/tumblr_mmfer8mZZc1s11g07o1_500.png pictured: sgeo 02:23:02 @ty foldMap NLeaf -- best function 02:23:03 forall (t :: * -> *) a. Foldable t => t a -> Nonoid a 02:23:21 Nonoid? 02:23:27 :t NLeaf 02:23:28 forall a. a -> Nonoid a 02:23:54 Dammit "I love ... they're so easy" has no 'm's 02:24:16 mnoqy: help!! 02:24:26 > NLeaf 4 02:24:27 mnoqy: don t help elliott help me 02:24:28 4 02:24:29 kappabot eh 02:24:32 elliott: yeah im suffering from that joke too. we all are 02:24:37 that help'd 02:24:48 mnoqy: WHERE IS DECIDABLE 02:24:49 @list 02:24:49 http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/COMMANDS 02:24:53 :'( 02:24:56 @listchans 02:24:56 #esoteric #haskell #haskell-blah #haskell-lens #scannedinavian weird# 02:25:01 what is weird# 02:25:06 mnoqy: help me write Traversable t => NLeaf b -> t a -> t b.............................................. 02:25:14 is #scannedinavian the shapr personal channel 02:25:16 I bet there's a right-to-left mark 02:25:16 elliott: which decidable are you looking for theres like 2 and idk if one of them is even explicitly defined 02:25:23 also what happened to lambdabot 02:25:28 mnoqy: the decidable P := P \/ ~P one 02:25:35 weird# is /query with $PERSON hth 02:25:44 i was going to put a name in but i couldn't think of anyone i wanted to call weird 02:25:54 elliott: Logic.Decidable cant you look at the stdlib page for like 1s 02:25:56 i don't really like insulting people or being mean to them 02:26:05 what do i do 02:26:15 mnoqy: no 02:26:29 itd take less time than bothering me about it! 02:26:49 mnoqy: i have looking at the stdlib page for like 1s-itis..... 02:27:00 maybe u should take the pills 02:27:08 "they help" 02:51:32 mnoqy: thx 4 ur help 02:51:52 -!- olsner has joined. 02:52:13 > nonoid $ M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)] 02:52:15 (∅ ∙ 1) ∙ ((∅ ∙ 2) ∙ ∅) 02:52:23 > > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:52:25 :1:1: parse error on input `>' 02:52:26 > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:52:28 fromList *Exception: Renoid (<*>): invalid structure (expected NAppend) 02:52:46 help 02:53:41 oh 02:53:53 I broke the Applicative laws by defining fmap = liftA! 02:54:13 > renoid ((mempty <> N 'a') <> ((mempty <> N 'b') <> mempty)) (M.fromList [(1,1),(2,2)]) 02:54:15 fromList [(1,'a'),(2,'b')] 02:54:45 :t renoid 02:54:46 forall (t :: * -> *) b a. Traversable t => Nonoid b -> t a -> t b 02:54:58 creepy 02:55:10 Er, I mean: I broke the Applicative laws. Therefore fmap = liftA was invalid. 02:55:52 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-zeCXlFPjk so i guess we can confirm that shachaf is cute 02:56:41 is shachaf a corgi? 02:56:42 i'm a dog???????????????????? 02:56:45 no thx 02:56:52 i'd rather be uncute than be a dog 02:57:04 even a cool lawbreaking dog? 02:57:10 that runs around a golf course 02:57:17 kmc: are you talking about achewood now 02:57:20 that dog is so happy 02:57:26 no i'm talking about the video that Bike linked!!!!!! 02:57:34 not watching dog videos hth 02:57:38 cat videos 4 lyfe 02:57:59 @yow!! 02:57:59 Did YOU find a DIGITAL WATCH in YOUR box of VELVEETA? 02:58:29 this video is adorable 02:58:49 he's so excited to destroy the moral fabric of society 02:59:39 I should look into icecast streaming my .midis 02:59:42 i think the point of dogs is that they're so happy all the time for no reason 02:59:48 at least some dogs? 02:59:56 it makes one happy just to be around such a creature 03:00:05 'might not work if they could talk' 03:00:25 or if you read Where The Red Fern Grows too many times 03:00:32 kmc: you should read raymond smullyan's things.................... 03:00:36 he talks about dogs and things 03:00:38 o 03:00:50 he even has an answer to "Does a dog have buddha nature?" 03:01:00 (the answer is yes hth) 03:01:26 glad that's settled 03:01:38 cool, now i don't need to behead my disciple 03:02:52 Fiora: I think the pseudocode assembly is slightly hard to follow; I don't know what line0[0] means exactly 03:03:06 but the actual code is nice and readable! (once I found a 7z extracter :) 03:03:48 kmc: you should use deco!! 03:03:52 it's what the hip kids use to extract archives 03:03:55 i didn't even know i had a 7z extractor but there's 7za for some reason 03:04:12 it has the highest compression ratio, according to man. good format!! 03:04:28 according to man and beast 03:04:44 beast's manuals are pretty unreliable tbh 03:04:55 BEAST and CRIME 03:07:42 7z is pretty crappy, except for the clever deflate compression that's able to make compatible zip files smaller 03:10:38 (it's probably good at other kinds of compression too, but other programs can also do that) 03:15:29 kmc: I need an *alphanumeric* character to represent mempty. 03:15:32 So ∅ won't do. 03:15:34 What should I use? 03:15:46 ꙮ 03:16:00 > let ꙮ = 5 in ꙮ 03:16:01 5 03:16:03 That's an option. 03:16:25 Any others? 03:17:17 > let ø = 5 in ø 03:17:18 5 03:17:19 ø 03:17:24 jinx. 03:17:32 Why does it need to be alphanumeric, out of curiosity 03:17:45 Hah, I could use ø. 03:17:49 OK, ø it is. 03:17:53 so that it is allowed as a haskell identifier I guess 03:18:19 imo agda 03:18:37 > nonoid "hello" 03:18:38 'h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø)))) 03:18:53 hönan agda 03:19:12 > renoid ('h' ∙ ('e' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('l' ∙ ('o' ∙ ø))))) "eliot" 03:19:13 Couldn't match expected type `L.Nonoid b0' 03:19:13 with actual type `G... 03:19:20 Hmm. 03:19:24 Oh, right. 03:19:28 That won't work. :-( 03:19:33 Should I add Ns everywhere? 03:19:53 > nonoid "hello" 03:19:54 N 'h' ∙ (N 'e' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'l' ∙ (N 'o' ∙ ø)))) 03:20:15 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:16 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:23 I guess I need to get my precedence right. 03:20:28 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:30 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:38 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:40 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:43 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:20:44 N Just 1 ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:20:47 OK, maybe /msg 03:21:43 > nonoid [Just 1, Nothing] 03:21:45 N (Just 1) ∙ (N Nothing ∙ ø) 03:28:16 -!- jconn has joined. 03:29:02 kmc: okay I'll go try to define those more clearly! 03:29:21 I keep seeing jconn join but have never seen it leave 03:29:38 `pastelog jcon.*has left 03:30:18 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3708 03:30:46 you win this round 03:31:20 kmc: okay, added an extra paragraph, I hope that makes slightly more sense 03:31:36 and um, sorry for using 7z 03:31:38 I'm a dumb windows user 03:31:39 that was quick! 03:31:56 yeah, this makes more sense now 03:32:49 sorry, I kind of did that *flail flail must quickly add and fix things* thing <.< 03:33:07 are you apologizing for being too quick 03:33:49 > nonoid "hth" 03:33:51 N 'h' ◇ (N 't' ◇ (N 'h' ◇ ε)) 03:34:04 I.... I guess I am 03:34:10 I'm apologizing for rushing it. 03:35:07 What's wrong with 7z? 03:35:20 linux seems to like xz and windows likes 7z? 03:35:24 I don't know 03:35:32 nothing really, it's just not common on linux 03:35:44 and they're like, two variants of the same thing 03:36:14 So why wouldn't you use 7z? 03:36:20 Since you use Windows and all. 03:38:03 um... because I'm sending things to linux users I guess? :< I don't know 03:39:53 it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries 03:43:41 now when you need 7z and are pressed for time, you'll already have it 03:44:57 e.g. when terrorists invade and the only vial of antidote is 7z compressed 03:53:40 > let! a = undefined in () 03:53:41 *Exception: Prelude.undefined 03:53:42 > let a = undefined in () 03:53:43 () 03:53:54 lol 03:54:04 [23:53:37] OK, this isn't the channel for misleading syntax. 03:54:18 shachaf: bang patterns? 03:54:32 mnoqy: it's let-bang obviously hth 03:54:41 I can haz set!? 03:54:46 copumpkin: was that from #haskell? 03:54:53 olsner: yeah 03:55:34 ah, makes sense then 03:55:44 obviously this *is* the channel for misleading syntax 03:56:26 @let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y 03:56:27 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:32 @let set!x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y 03:56:32 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:44 @ty let set! x y = y `seq` writeIORef x y in () 03:56:45 Parse error in pattern: x 03:56:51 Hmph. 03:57:13 i don't get the problem with "let a = undefined in ()"? 03:57:14 let (!) set x y = ... 03:57:32 > let set! x y = "hi" in () 03:57:33 () 03:57:55 doesn't that just... 03:58:01 > let set! x y = "hi" in set! 4 5 03:58:02 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Arr.Array i0 e0' 03:58:02 with actual... 03:58:15 ok well i don't know anything 04:12:40 -!- comex has quit (Quit: Coyote finally caught me). 04:12:55 -!- comex has joined. 04:45:00 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:48:06 -!- conehead has joined. 04:54:29 -!- Puffball has joined. 04:58:33 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 05:00:14 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:47:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 05:51:35 "The defense of this practice offered by Senator Dianne Feinstein of California, who as chairwoman of the Senate Intelligence Committee is supposed to be preventing this sort of overreaching, was absurd. She said on Thursday that the authorities need this information in case someone might become a terrorist in the future." 06:05:24 sounds legit. 06:05:25 away 06:20:28 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:29:56 -!- function has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 06:35:27 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Gotta go). 06:47:50 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:59:21 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 07:04:25 -!- variable has joined. 07:35:22 -!- rntz^2_ has changed nick to rntz. 07:36:52 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:37:05 -!- ais523 has quit. 07:38:48 `relcome rntz 07:38:53 ​rntz: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 07:48:18 -!- nooga_ has joined. 07:52:40 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:53:48 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 07:54:54 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 08:02:13 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:02:14 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:05:26 -!- olsner has joined. 08:12:09 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:20:20 -!- nooga_ has joined. 08:27:50 -!- olsner has joined. 08:40:43 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:52:56 -!- olsner has joined. 08:54:32 -!- nooodl has joined. 08:56:00 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:57:48 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:06:57 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 09:07:31 -!- kappabot has left. 09:10:52 -!- lambdabot has joined. 09:11:13 -!- olsner has joined. 09:25:20 -!- glogbackup has joined. 09:31:28 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:44:20 -!- olsner has joined. 09:59:53 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:12:21 -!- olsner has joined. 10:13:21 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:27:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 10:39:50 -!- olsner has joined. 10:47:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:51:38 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:59:55 -!- olsner has joined. 11:05:02 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 11:18:12 -!- olsner has joined. 11:29:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:29:30 o 11:30:51 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:31:42 greetings 11:32:00 greetings 11:32:59 how are things going oklodroog? 11:33:08 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:33:09 finely! 11:33:19 and how be you 11:34:04 we are finishing a 40 page paper on categories; i still don't know the definition of a monad, and i barely understand adjoint functors. 11:34:04 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:34:13 yes i'm doing good.. made some decicions i pushed forward too long 11:34:20 what were those???????? 11:34:21 feel better now 11:34:33 oh don't want to point that out 11:34:36 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:34:39 okay 11:34:42 -!- jix has joined. 11:35:23 -!- sacje has quit (Quit: sacje). 11:35:40 -!- Koen_ has joined. 11:41:41 -!- olsner has joined. 11:45:32 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 11:52:10 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has joined. 11:57:59 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 11:57:59 -!- ThePoster32 has left. 12:04:20 -!- carado has joined. 12:04:51 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:05:26 -!- olsner has joined. 12:06:08 ibooter is the best 12:16:33 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:20:49 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:25:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:28:54 -!- olsner has joined. 12:33:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 12:33:28 -!- mnoqy has joined. 12:33:32 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 12:38:16 -!- quintopia has joined. 12:40:58 okay 12:40:59 on 3 12:41:01 1 12:41:02 2 12:41:03 3 12:41:05 ibooter!! 12:41:10 what 12:41:11 ibooter is super awesome 12:41:28 [14:57:48] Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 12:41:35 i'm trying to be helpful 12:42:06 in case someone here wants to take someone offline friends. 12:44:03 thanks oko 12:45:30 -!- olsner has joined. 12:49:18 no probo 12:50:08 okay i'm going to take offline friends 12:50:09 -!- oklopol has left. 12:50:17 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 13:01:29 -!- boily has joined. 13:01:52 good morning 13:01:58 @tell oerjan WHACK! 13:01:58 Consider it noted. 13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has joined. 13:06:17 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 13:06:17 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 13:06:17 -!- ThePoster62 has left. 13:08:59 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 13:13:06 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:17:21 http://theoatmeal.com/blog/tesla_response 13:17:39 i should stop reading this but i can't and i continue to have this overwhelming urge to punch things 13:18:32 Phantom__Hoover, imo read phantom-hoover.tumblr.com hth 13:18:43 who are you 13:18:50 what have you done with the real Taneb 13:19:03 i'm secretly fizzie 13:21:17 or AM I 13:21:24 christ, what a smug piece of shit 13:21:30 (not you) 13:28:59 i dont read "the oatmeal" 13:30:33 -!- Vorpal has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:34:39 me neither 13:39:47 Taneb: afaik, that never happened 13:40:12 I seem to recall being there when it did? 13:40:33 But saying that I sometimes insert myself into stories 13:40:38 Subconciously 13:40:38 when what happened 13:40:51 you might be thinking of the time when people fed a troll for ~10 minutes and they said they'd "learn haskell" and then never came back 13:41:05 and then paraded this as somehow some kind of good way to deal with trolls 13:41:20 hoo boy, new esolang "LOLScript" 13:41:29 It is based off of the Lua scripting language and is similar to LOLCODE, though with more recent memes and stuff. 13:41:41 LOLScript++ 13:41:46 thhanks for informing me i'll check it out 13:42:03 If he never came back, isn't that the definition of a good way of dealing with trolls? 13:42:09 I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes 13:42:09 Maybe not the best way, but... 13:42:20 Taneb: no because they occupied the channel for ages first 13:42:32 Taneb: afaik, that never happened 13:42:36 the very first thing they said was obviously bannable, so... 13:42:38 what never happened help 13:42:53 Phantom__Hoover: replying to a statement made in another channel to avoid derailing the topic!! 13:43:09 imo tell me the statement 13:43:11 Phantom__Hoover, dunno, it never happened 13:43:42 elliott, I stand corrected 13:43:42 Phantom__Hoover: 07.16:39:23 Taneb | Remember the time there was a troll in here and he ended up learning Haskell? 13:43:50 Phantom__Hoover: -- #haskell 13:44:02 urgh, lolscript is bad 13:44:08 I am in SO MANY CHANNELS it's scary 13:44:32 homotopy type theory is so weird 13:44:48 what does it actually have to do with homotopy 13:44:59 i'm pretty sure homotopy is ants walking around spheres and suc 13:45:00 h 13:45:05 yeah it is 13:45:17 Phantom__Hoover, we are all nought but ants walking around spheres 13:45:24 Phantom__Hoover: it relates the type theory equality to homotopy 13:45:27 and then shit gets weird 13:45:59 elliott, weird arcane pseudogeometry weird? 13:46:07 Problem Sleuth weird? 13:46:15 Agda weird? 13:46:19 There are many kinds of weird 13:46:20 remember that guy on /r/math who was talking about homotopy type theory 13:46:29 and you were all like "oh well what does he know about constructivism" 13:46:50 no 13:47:03 Phantom__Hoover: like you have a type I 13:47:05 i do 13:47:09 where zero, one : I 13:47:19 yes 13:47:32 good type purchase imo 13:47:34 and I-rec : forall P (a b : P), a = b -> I -> P 13:47:45 where I-rec P a b H zero = a 13:47:49 and I-rec P a b H one = b 13:48:15 and this is somehow not a pointless waste of time because = represents ~paths~ 13:48:49 kmc: did you know you're a troll 13:58:31 Taneb: :( 13:58:40 now you'll encourage people to do it the next time too 14:02:13 good propaganda 14:03:41 -!- ThePoster62 has joined. 14:03:41 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 14:03:42 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 14:03:42 -!- ThePoster62 has left. 14:05:01 yes!!!! 14:06:10 wow 14:06:20 what a polite spam 14:06:29 p.s. remember visual befunge 14:07:15 -!- Vorpal has joined. 14:08:53 Strange, my RPi just rebooted by itself about an hour ago. Before I was home. 14:09:13 it has gained sentience 14:09:17 Possibly 14:09:28 There is nothing of note in the logs either 14:12:26 -!- jsvine has joined. 14:23:04 -!- oonbotti has joined. 14:31:02 -!- Phantom___Hoover has joined. 14:33:52 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 14:34:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:34:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:38:21 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 14:39:59 eek it's a drone everybody duck! 14:39:59 oerjan: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 14:40:13 * Koen_ ducks 14:40:15 @messages 14:40:15 boily said 1h 38m 18s ago: WHACK! 14:40:26 @tell boily *OUCH* 14:40:26 Consider it noted. 14:44:23 mnoqy: btw is there a nice way to get all the accessors of a record to have their record argument implicit <-- that's what .. wildcards are for hth 14:44:46 (which i know you already hate, making this rather paradoxical) 14:45:22 unless this isn't haskell. i suppose it could be coq or something. 14:45:48 it's coq yes 14:47:20 "hey did u know you can have a morphism which is an epimorphism and a monomorphism but not an isomorphism................................" <-- yes 14:47:45 not in Set, of course. 14:50:33 -!- ThePoster60 has joined. 14:50:33 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 14:50:34 http://ibooter.us || http://ibooter.info Join us ! 14:50:34 -!- ThePoster60 has left. 14:50:56 oerjan: you sshould ban 212.150.184.98 hth 14:50:59 *should 14:51:43 has this happened before? 14:52:54 yes. 14:53:01 an hour ago 14:53:09 will this happen again? 14:53:46 That was the fourth time 14:54:28 ooh the monoid example is so easy: "In the category of monoids, Mon, the inclusion map N → Z is a non-surjective epimorphism." 14:54:55 which is good since the topology example i was thinking of apparently is wrong 14:57:30 "It is a common mistake to believe that epimorphisms are either identical to surjections or that they are a better concept. Unfortunately this is rarely the case; epimorphisms can be very mysterious and have unexpected behavior. It is very difficult, for example, to classify all the epimorphisms of rings. In general, epimorphisms are their own unique concept, related to surjections but fundamentally different." 14:57:38 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 14:57:43 imo op me 14:58:09 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.98. 14:58:29 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 15:01:27 hmm, my down arrow key is not working perfectly. 15:01:50 it's just the down keeping you, man 15:02:55 this is going to be a problem 15:03:32 indeed. 15:05:21 i'm not sure if i even use the arrow keys any more 15:05:34 : NLeaf 15:05:38 :t NLeaf 15:05:39 Not in scope: data constructor `NLeaf' 15:05:57 apparently it's a ver kappa thing 15:06:25 *+y i think my keys aren't working perfectly either 15:07:04 Phantom___Hoover: recalling lines on irc! 15:07:32 oh, yeah 15:07:36 that's quite a big one 15:08:30 great, the down arrow key is just... not responding at all 15:08:39 why the fuck do the keyboard problems always happen to me 15:09:29 oerjan: do you know how to go down in the irc line history in irssi... 15:09:32 (withotu using down arrow) 15:09:45 /help bind hth 15:12:10 augh 15:12:13 this is unbearable 15:12:47 /bind whateveryouwant down 15:13:34 actually there's a /bind down forwardhistory 15:13:45 *forward_history 15:14:22 oerjan: except it's unbearable elsewhere too. 15:14:27 like, choosing URL completinos 15:14:30 *ions 15:14:45 -!- olsner has joined. 15:14:45 also, I still use arrow keys out of habit when editing files :( 15:15:18 ic i cannot help you 15:15:46 elliott, you should always have at least 2 backup keyboards! 15:15:52 * /bind whateveryouwant key down 15:16:11 Taneb: it is a laptop 15:20:16 Even so 15:20:34 it is a cookbook! 15:21:05 -!- olsner has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:24:46 ~duck it 15:25:05 boily: help 15:27:33 nooodl_: please hold while we redirect your call... ♪ 15:27:33 boily: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. 15:27:40 @messages 15:27:40 oerjan said 47m 14s ago: *OUCH* 15:27:56 -!- metasepia has joined. 15:34:50 -!- conehead has joined. 15:36:38 -!- olsner has joined. 15:38:58 I like the idea of there being new revisions of the LOLCode standard adjusted to handle new memes <-- does it include the harlem shake twh 15:39:31 `? twh 15:39:34 twh? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:39:46 `learn twh would help. 15:39:50 I used to do the harlem shake, but ain't nobody got time for that 15:39:51 I knew that. 15:41:25 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:47:09 Taneb: thx now i'm up to date 15:47:11 `? twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 15:47:13 twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:47:19 `learn twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. 15:47:24 I knew that. 15:47:47 `? misspellings of croissant 15:47:49 misspellings of crosant? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:48:46 time for an apple, got to shake of these there darn doctors 15:48:49 *off 15:53:22 let's do the haapple shake. *woob woob woob* 15:53:59 -!- olsner has joined. 15:56:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:57:21 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:00:01 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:00:46 help 16:00:54 wheneveripressspace 16:00:56 itpressesdownkey 16:01:01 ohmygod 16:01:06 howdoidisablethedownkey 16:01:11 -!- Taneb has joined. 16:01:30 fancy 16:02:00 fuck 16:02:05 e 16:02:07 'o;sfjklbe `p[eklvntzklgsm 16:02:07 `[B 16:02:08 s 16:02:08 \ 16:02:09 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: [B: not found 16:02:09 did you do /bind space key down or something 16:02:15 no it's system wide 16:02:19 eek 16:02:37 -!- Phantom___Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 16:02:40 elliott: hi 16:02:49 shut up 16:03:56 can you open the relevant setting file in an editor? actually open the editor and then the file, i guess 16:04:25 i don't think there is such a file but i have downloaded some key remapping software that will maybe let me disable down key 16:05:50 i suppose this is somehow like writing without e, but worse 16:06:21 elliott: you got spaces back! 16:06:25 elliott: what os? 16:07:00 oh so he did maybe i should pay attention 16:07:52 coppro: os x 16:08:19 i wonder if someone has made puzzles based on most of your keyboard not working 16:09:35 say, having only the left half up to the "6" key 16:10:21 dat wed sac 16:10:40 Taneb: how did you manage to press return twh 16:10:52 oerjan, I have at least two backup keyboards 16:10:58 OKAY 16:11:13 `? taneb 16:11:15 Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. (see also: d-modules) 16:12:05 `learn Taneb is not elliott, no matter who you ask. He also isn't a rabbi although he has pretended in the past. He has at least two backup keyboards. (see also: d-modules) 16:12:09 I knew that. 16:12:19 i felt this was important information. 16:12:23 (I actually do have two spare keyboards) 16:12:51 -!- olsner has joined. 16:12:57 i think this is important enough to stay in wisdom even if it is accurate. 16:13:07 (one's an old PS/2 keyboard because I can't edit BIOS settings with a USB one for some reason, and my PS/2 keyboard is really clacky) 16:15:28 gain 16:15:30 n 16:15:33 p 16:15:34 neing 16:15:35 again 16:15:37 happening again 16:16:21 his mind is going, he can feel it 16:16:59 ok hopefully ive fixed it 16:17:11 and i have a replacement down key 16:17:13 in the form of shift-right 16:17:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:19:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 16:26:41 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 16:26:48 Hello 16:27:58 problems with iour keiboard, again? 16:29:21 -!- nooga_ has joined. 16:29:31 yes :( 16:31:43 -!- olsner has joined. 16:40:05 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 16:41:19 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:52:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 16:53:04 -!- olsner has joined. 17:01:12 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:02:31 i've started using egojsout as a js benchmark 17:09:07 -!- Taneb has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has joined. 17:12:09 Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info 17:12:09 -!- ThePoster56 has left. 17:13:44 -!- olsner has joined. 17:16:44 oerjan: help 17:16:50 nu wat 17:16:55 maybe i should report it in #freenode 17:16:58 oops 17:17:17 is it even from a consistent ip range 17:17:33 i assumed it was consistent since elliott asked me to ban the ip hth 17:18:06 ah yes 17:18:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan. 17:18:21 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:18:25 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -b *!*@212.150.184.98. 17:18:32 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@212.150.184.*. 17:18:39 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan. 17:19:39 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 17:19:50 no reverse lookup even on 212.0.0.0 17:20:06 can't be important then. 17:21:41 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:21:54 elliott: did you report 17:22:08 is it showing up in #haskell as well? 17:22:38 not in £haskell 17:22:43 so i don't care enough to report :p 17:22:51 OKAY 17:32:01 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:34:36 -!- olsner has joined. 17:43:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:22:46 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:23:27 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:30:26 -!- myname has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:30:52 -!- myname has joined. 18:43:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 18:45:15 -!- Bike has joined. 18:52:31 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:00:38 OK so having completed Gunpoint, the obvious question now is 'is it TC' 19:09:34 "In fact, the electric force trying to push the two protons in a helium nucleus apart is comparable to the weight of a truck!" 19:13:00 aren't the two protons in a helium atom in the same 'place' 19:13:53 I don't think they are 19:14:15 At least, not if I understand the Pauli Exclusion Principle right 19:14:40 Hmm, unless there is something differing between the two protons other than position 19:14:59 they don't have exact positions anyway 19:15:50 i'm reading http://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/the-known-forces-of-nature/the-strength-of-the-known-forces/ btw 19:17:24 OK, let me put that more precisely: 19:17:47 The symmetries of a helium nucleus have no translational components. 19:18:24 (I've read that the nucleus is spherically symmetric, so that seems accurate.) 19:19:21 well i take it that means the protons have the same _average_ position, which because they're waves doesn't mean they cannot also have a non-zero average distance. 19:21:05 or rather, their combined state is a wave function in 6 dimensions or so. 19:22:09 fuck atoms 19:22:12 too weird 19:22:16 they are not allowed to exist now 19:22:51 and that's if you assume the forces are weak enough that you can do with only quantum mechanics, not full quantum field theory; the article mentions something about that. 19:24:46 elliott: I knew that atoms were Canadian at heart. 19:26:05 oerjan: do you understand homotopy type theory 19:26:12 energy is force-over-distance; isn't part of the reason the "force" is so strong because it's over a super super short distance? 19:26:37 elliott: even worse than i understand quantum field theory. 19:26:50 so like, breaking apart the two protons still requires a microscopic amount of energy, even though the force is macroscopic? 19:27:13 probably. 19:28:11 walk -> 19:38:01 -!- coppro has joined. 19:51:39 -!- TeruFSX has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:55:00 Fiora, the strong force actually doesn't attenuate past a certain point 19:55:30 -!- TeruFSX has joined. 19:56:01 if you have, like, a quark and an antiquark of complementary colour a metre apart in a vacuum they produce something like 10^5N of force 19:57:38 the intranuclear forces do though because they're between bound quarks 19:58:01 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:05:05 Phantom_Hoover: I thought if you pull them too far apart you just get quark-antiquark pairs? 20:05:18 yeah, you do 20:05:26 so you can't actually pull them a meter away from each other really 20:06:00 those forces are purely theoretical, afaik 20:06:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:06:12 they are pretty much constant beyond a certain distance, though 20:20:11 guys http://i.imgur.com/X6XGqp8.png 20:20:30 nice 20:21:51 wow. 20:33:22 if you have pygame and wanna test this: http://bpaste.net/show/1pfyaHB9PS08lDoYRR2O/ 20:33:48 mind, it's very crashy at the moment. 20:34:09 don't underflow the stack 20:34:21 also the torus doesn't wrap yet... 20:35:44 wait i'm a fucking idiot. it needs the graphics of course 20:35:56 what, for the torus? 20:36:07 File "chose.py", line 147 20:36:09 elif tile == 'add': bin_op(lambda a, b: a + b) 20:36:12 File "chose.py", line 35 20:36:14 def in_field((x, y)): return y < HEIGHT * 16 20:36:16 ^ 20:36:18 SyntaxError: invalid syntax 20:36:19 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 20:36:28 no just in general; it won't run without the thingies 20:37:10 also im bad for pasting the wrong thing 20:38:23 https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15495351/visualbefunge.zip here 20:38:29 windows user!! 20:38:34 boily: make sure you run it in python 2.7 20:38:55 i think that second complaint is because python 3 removed the argument unpacking syntax 20:39:02 (why did that happen???????) 20:39:22 the first complaint comes from python 2.7.5. 20:39:38 it chokes on the elif. 20:39:50 yeah i've fixed that one now 20:41:14 b/c pattern matching is too useful for guido 20:41:17 like tail calls and folds 20:41:29 and good lambdas 20:41:42 and fucking, case statements, ugh 20:44:00 case statements are pattern matching nooodl_!! 20:44:05 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 20:44:07 also sum types, I forgot sum types 20:44:43 ~duck it 20:44:44 Used to refer to that one previously mentioned. 20:47:29 pyskell 20:47:44 -!- dessos has joined. 20:49:03 pyskellman, and his arch-nemesis, visualjavaman! 20:49:16 boily: are you testing it 20:49:32 if so i have some exciting interface things to explain!! 20:50:21 nooodl_: no can do. we're in a rush here, trying to buckle up patches for a release. 20:50:27 yeah for fun friday nights... :( 20:50:35 rip :( 20:50:41 what is boily releasing 20:51:59 elliott: we're working on a [REDACTED] that will go in [REDACTED]. 20:52:09 (it has ethernet) 20:52:19 boily: making me more curious is forbidden. 20:55:27 -!- Taneb has joined. 20:56:05 -!- nooga_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:00:13 elliott: well as you clearly see, they're making an SCP hth 21:00:40 oerjan: if only. for now, all it does it sit here and spew various error messages. 21:04:00 that's what you _think_ it does. 21:06:34 twist: I don't think. 21:06:51 that may be for the best. 21:09:50 -!- olsner has joined. 21:11:35 -!- olsner_ has joined. 21:12:46 olsner_ is olsner's evil goatee twin. 21:13:06 are there two of me? which one am I? 21:14:13 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:14:46 olsner_: I think the barred version of you is the only one left. 21:14:57 what have you done? which crime have you perpetrated? you monster! 21:15:02 I should be disbarred 21:15:06 -!- olsner_ has changed nick to olsner. 21:18:16 and now you're evading law and impersonating an innocent bystander... what are the next unspeakable horrific limits you'll cross? 21:18:55 I have done no such thing 21:19:46 that olsner_ was horrible though 21:24:25 * boily wields his eviltwinon counter... *beep*... *beep*... *beep*... *BEEEEEEEEEEEP*! 21:25:11 the machine does not lie. obey the computer. please report to the nearest alpha-complex termination center. thanks for your gentle coöperation! 21:25:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:25:46 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:25:49 no, not Taneb, olsner. 21:25:52 *sigh* 21:26:45 twist: we are _all_ evil twins. 21:28:18 -!- olsner has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:30:30 -!- mumm-ra has joined. 21:31:18 oerjan: speak for yourself. I'm a pure and chaste Canadian. 21:31:39 ok, all of us that _exist_ are evil twins. 21:32:33 `thanks ørjan 21:32:34 Thanks, ørjan. Than. 21:33:00 i sense a flaw in the vowel recognition here 21:33:22 than 21:33:29 rather. 21:34:26 `thanks Dan Rather 21:34:28 Thanks, Dan Rather. Than Rather. 21:34:48 what's the frequency, kenneth? 21:36:46 what's the vector, victor 21:37:25 what 21:37:26 help 21:37:37 *our 21:37:43 oh it's a reference to that film i haven't seen 21:38:04 isn't that like, everything. 21:38:11 http://youtu.be/50k_nl6Q4vs 21:38:29 what isn't, like, everything? 21:38:46 deep man 21:41:57 -!- myname has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 21:44:40 `seen kmc 21:44:45 2013-06-07 03:39:53: it took about 2 seconds to install a 7z decompressor so, no worries 21:44:59 -!- mumm-ra has left. 21:44:59 what time zone are you in HackEgo 21:45:14 utc 21:45:22 the logs, anyway 21:45:52 imo `seen should use my time zone 21:46:05 alt. say "so and so many billion years ago" 21:47:04 itym "a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away" hth 21:47:27 `? itym 21:47:28 itym? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:47:50 shachaf is the reincarnation of either darth vader or jar-jar binks 21:48:14 `learn itym "i think you mean" hth 21:48:17 I knew that. 21:48:20 I'd go with jar-jar. more safe. 21:48:31 are you sure 21:49:19 if I ever get the urge to punch it, jar-jar is more squishy. all these electronics are sharp and may cut my knuckles off. 21:59:43 hichaf 21:59:56 hmc 22:01:35 kmc: do you have firefox 22:01:41 somewhere 22:01:56 kmc: look at http://shachaf.net/sel.html with firefox 22:02:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:02:43 idgi 22:02:47 search for your password 22:02:51 ^F 22:03:02 oh 22:03:05 yes I see 22:03:07 v. clever 22:03:27 'applications of de bruijn sequences' 22:03:36 no de bruijn sequences necessary 22:03:53 a de bruijn sequence containing every possible n-character password would be p. big....... 22:04:03 yes 22:04:08 what does it do in firefox? 22:04:42 It figures out your password as you search for it. 22:05:00 wow it breaks really badly when I try to select text 22:05:04 ... I think it crashed firefox :/ 22:05:15 "woops" 22:05:20 Crashed? 22:05:25 yeah, I had to kill it 22:05:29 Uh oh. 22:05:35 I just did it too. 22:05:38 I know what happened. 22:05:48 Well, I didn't have to kill it. 22:05:55 my firefox must be special. it doesn't do much. 22:06:03 boily: Did you ^F-search for your password? 22:06:24 shachaf: I /-ed my password. I have pentadactyl :D 22:06:38 nerd 22:06:52 shachaf: btw why does it use 
s weirdly
22:07:00  because i like 
s
22:07:04  hey, I work at a linux promoting company, of course I'm a nerd.
22:07:12  what should it use
22:07:18  boily: is it red hat
22:07:31  elliott: nope.
22:07:32  shachaf: well it does some weird thing turning it into 
  • s???
22:07:53  the 
  • s are inside a 
      
22:08:05  and that's probably not actually necessary but i thought it was necessary before
22:08:08  i had a bug
22:08:22  shachaf: you can probably do something adaptive to generate the text as the user searches for it
22:08:51  kmc: Yep, I thought of that but didn't want to bother.
22:09:03  But it can look as if you're really finding passwords in the document.
22:09:29  is it supposed to just display the thing i'm searching for at the top of the page
22:09:39  Yep.
22:09:54  shachaf: one idea i liked from Tangled Web is, you do something that invokes a scary confirmation dialog (e.g. downloading an exe, granting camera privileges) and then you pop up a browser window over the dialog, with a link right over the "confirm" button in the dialog
22:10:08  and you extrapolate mouse movements to determine when the user is about to click the button
22:10:12  and close the window just before they do
22:10:16 -!- sacje has joined.
22:10:21  click the innocuous link, i mean
22:10:24  that's incredibly evil
22:10:27  Hah.
22:10:32  yep
22:10:40  isnt there also like, a thing wher eyou get someone to click a link by putting a frame above it but making the click go through it?
22:10:45  Yep.
22:10:47  yep
22:11:06  well, I know of the reverse, where you put the real target in an invisible iframe floating over the innocuous link
22:11:08  Fiora: I tried that one with the fram. never managed to pull it off, sadly.
22:11:10  that's clickjacking
22:11:14  but probably you can do both
22:11:15  ah
22:11:15  Hmm, I once found a nice instance of that but I don't think I can talk about it.
22:11:33  are you under an "NDA"
22:11:46  also you can like... embed an iframe of the target site, size and scroll it so that only a tiny part of the target link is visible, and plop that within an innocuous link
22:12:05  kmc: could you do that by picking a word on the target site and plopping it in another site?
22:12:11  I think so
22:12:16  like if you need a link that says "foo", find a link on the other site that says "foo", and iframe it
22:12:19  to make it look like your foo link
22:13:05  "Click here for more information about phishing attempts that get you to Close your Bank Account"
22:13:18  too bad it only works if they click the last four words
22:13:22  also
22:13:27  that would be the lamest phish ever really
22:14:05  Fiora: did you see http://lcamtuf.coredump.cx/yahh/
22:14:12 * Fiora looks
22:14:16  elliott: all phishes are lame. that's the point.
22:14:22  what's that?
22:14:30  small screen discrimination!!
22:14:50  Fiora: it's really great, try playing it for a few minutes
22:14:52  oh, it hides links under the asteroids
22:15:01  aww you cheated :P
22:15:20  https://twitter.com/PRISM_NSA
22:15:25  it actually does something really clever with the links, not just making you click them
22:15:34  what does it do?
22:15:53  some of the asteroids are links, and they're visible iff you've visited that site
22:15:55  i think the guy who made it has a blog post explaining it? maybe kmc has a link
22:16:06  yeah sec
22:16:12  oh, so it's a way of seeing which sites you've visited in the past?
22:16:14  http://lcamtuf.blogspot.com/2013/05/some-harmless-old-fashioned-fun-with-css.html
22:16:17  yep
22:16:22  if you play long enough it pops up an alert telling you :3
22:16:54  oooh.  sneaky
22:17:32  so all the other asteroids are black, and so they don't appear
22:17:37  but ones corresponding to sites you've visited show up
22:17:41  because you can adjust the color
22:17:45  and the "link" is a circle
22:17:49  that's terrible
22:20:27  so according to this thing i've visited playboy but not wikipedia
22:20:33  is that good or bad
22:21:05  there is a disturbingly high number of mnoqy quotes in the learndb.
22:21:10  why the hell would you visit playboy, there's so uch better porn out there
22:21:18  bad imo, phantom
22:21:29  well as ais pointed out the articles are actually the only reason to read it these days
22:21:35  it got mine right
22:21:37  playboy was an early open source mirror
22:22:42  elliott: There you go, no 
    • s.
22:22:58  now my esolangs.org mirror of it is outdated!
22:23:59 -!- mnoqy has joined.
22:24:00  Is setInterval(go, 0); or function go() { ...; setTimeout(go, 0); } better?
22:24:37  the latter is more flexible
22:25:08  I mean with 0 specifically.
22:25:12  I suppose it doesn't matter.
22:25:28  i'm not sure
22:26:50  I don't think there are selection events so I just loop.
22:30:24 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!).
22:30:26 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:42:33 -!- nooga_ has joined.
22:48:17 -!- DHeadshot has joined.
22:50:30 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:53:50  i thought there are such events
22:53:52  but not sure
22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has joined.
22:53:53  Want to take someone offline Friends, Game Servers, Website? Join iBooter ! ibooter.us | ibooter.info  
22:53:53 -!- ThePoster56 has left.
22:54:09  I nominate kmc to report that bot in #freenode
22:54:22  I tried earlier
22:54:26  i'm with elliott 
22:54:30  I didn't try very well, though.
22:54:45  seems it changed to a completely different ip range
22:54:46  I disnominate Phantom_Hoover from joining other IRC channels for any purpose ever :P
22:54:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
22:55:04  dont ban me i was joking
22:55:14  however, opping me is fine
22:55:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b ThePoster*!*@*.
22:55:32  @tell ThePoster56 normally i avoid complaining about grammar but that was incomprehensible!! how do you expect successful advertising with such a poor presentation
22:55:33  Consider it noted.
22:55:48  Bike: the last number part changes
22:56:00  oerjan i'm.. not expecting them to actually read it...
22:56:11  what, how rude
22:56:41  Bike. now lambdabot has to remember that FOREVER.
22:57:08 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!~COS@*.
22:57:09  yes.
22:57:15  and what a memory it shall be.
22:57:32  oerjan: um how about banning ThePoster* instead
22:57:38  the hostname was LOL before
22:57:43  elliott: um i already did?
22:57:44  in fact, why didn't I ask you to do that originally...
22:57:49  oh hm
22:57:58  i am quite blind, apparently :/
22:58:18 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: +b *!*@62.233.41.*.
22:58:18  do we have *.aq banned
22:58:42  anarctica? XD
22:58:47  they're jerks
22:58:59  nothing much to do in that freaking desert but make brainfuck derivatives
22:59:01  you almost pity them
22:59:22 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
22:59:24  http://www.mcmurdodryvalleys.aq/
22:59:26  but then they come back around with "hey!! i encoded [] as penguins!!!" and you remember why they're banned
22:59:37  bike just wants to make sure i can't tell you guys about our fun adventures when we go to antarctica
23:00:04  the dry valleys are the second most lifeless place i can think of on earth
23:00:24  is #1 hexham or finland
23:00:24  the biggest living things there are nematodes, closely followed by elliott (HEIGHT JOKE)
23:00:50  i think i got taller recently, preemptive rip height jokes
23:01:02  oh come on he's taller than me <.<
23:01:15  #1 is the polar plateau because there like aren't even microorganisms
23:01:16  pretty wack
23:02:02  but are there microörganisms
23:02:17  lrn2¨
23:02:29  Bike: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/AntarcticaDomeCSnow.jpg  wooooow
23:02:33 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined.
23:03:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds).
23:03:51  Fiora: basically
23:04:03  good. i like it
23:04:17  barren lifeless flat hellscapes are the best
23:04:34  also bike did you get bored making height jokes about me so it has to be about elliott now
23:04:38  and that's why i live in hexham
23:04:43  not that I'm complaining but
23:05:01  the only comparable picture i can think of is http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Northern_Chukotka.JPG but i bet there are nematodes
23:05:12  Fiora: elliott is worse than you, so
23:05:21  :'(
23:05:35  it's true, i am terrible
23:09:22  hey you should make height jokes about me
23:09:37  wait no
23:09:42  make height jokes about kmc
23:09:44  (drugz joke)
23:09:58  worse than me at what? :<
23:10:25  just in general
23:10:35  so high
23:12:00  kmc: if you were a commercial gps you would be so off right now
23:12:37  :)
23:12:43  I don't think he's worse than me...
23:19:07  you're from america, with its boundless reclaimed meat and corn syrup
23:19:38  elliott has lived on the measly, shrivelled mosses that grow on the scree from the coal mines
23:20:31  Phantom__Hoover: it is actually a moss mine, unfortunately the north ran out of coal
23:20:53  but why does this make him worse than me? or something
23:22:05  you have a source of protein
23:22:36  I.....   I don't really get what you're imply but um okay
23:22:39  *what you're implying
23:22:56  Fiora: well look at the difference between north and south koreans
23:23:08  Fiora: i think this is still about height hth
23:23:16  the north ones don't have a source of protein, and so are short and evil
23:23:16  but I'm shorter than elliott...
23:23:37  you're actually not
23:23:54  i should like actually measure how tall i am or something
23:23:55  the measuring tapes in the north are shorter to save on tape costs
23:24:11  given that i am in this weird indeterminate space between "uh I was short fairly recently" and "I guess I grew a little?"
23:24:26  well he said he used to be 5'2" or something and I don't think he's gotten shorter?
23:25:16  `frink 5 feet 2 inches -> m
23:25:22  like i said, a northern foot is less than a california foot
23:25:25  ​ Conformance error \    Left side is: 48387/625000 (exactly 0.0774192) m^2 (area) \   Right side is: 1 m (length) \      Suggestion: divide left side by length \               or divide left side by area^(1/2) \  \  For help, type: units[length] \                    or \                  units[area] \                    to list known units with 
23:25:30  `frink 5 feet + 2 inches -> m
23:25:38  3937/2500 (exactly 1.5748)
23:26:05  i wrote a unicode sonnet http://bpaste.net/show/olydVfuzIeXaGKTkVxlJ/
23:26:09  it's not AS good but it's pretty good
23:26:17  Isn't Apple stereotyped as being good at UI?
23:26:31  (it's iambic pentameter)
23:26:43  What kind of brilliant UI decision is it to, if you accidentally press off the keyboard, erase everything that's been typed so far?
23:27:22  Are you sure it's a brilliant UI decision at all?
23:27:30  It sounds like it might not be brilliant, from the way you're talking.
23:27:34  nooodl_, sonnets aren't in iambic pentameter aren't they
23:27:41  wait, i'm thinking of the number of lines
23:27:57  Maybe Apple isn't actually good at UI
23:28:01  Traditionally, English poets employ iambic pentameter when writing sonnets,
23:28:04  Or, at least, they're not perfect at UI
23:28:08  Phantom__Hoover: but I use meters
23:28:12  they don't change, do they? :<
23:28:17  yes
23:28:19  they're usually 14 verses long too!
23:28:40  do you really think they can afford a metre of solid iridium-platinum alloy?
23:28:44  nobody seems to agree on what rhyming scheme is most sonnet-y
23:28:48  That's the kilogram :<
23:29:05  it used to be the metre!
23:29:07  ... I guess if the kilogram's smaller, that means I've lost weight? <.<
23:29:12  the kilogram changing is the scariest thing on earth, imo
23:29:19  oh.  was that before the whole speed of light meter thing?
23:29:32  yeah
23:29:44  nooodl_: imo write a pushking-style sonnet hth
23:29:56  is civilisation v any good
23:30:13  well fine, the north can't afford a radioactive clock
23:30:27  s/g//
23:30:35  help
23:30:52  elliott, it's either shit or ok
23:30:54  i forget which
23:31:18  elliott: it's really really addictive, there's good and bad things about it I guess but it's lots of fun?
23:31:24  I am eagerly awaiting the new expansion
23:31:40  and by awaiting I mean like, already preordered because firaxis owns me
23:31:41  i guess it depends on whether you're judging it by the standard of grand strategy games or not
23:31:55  I ask because apparently it is free for a weekend on steam
23:31:57  I don't think civ is really a grand strategy game, there's EU for that :p
23:31:59  which I noticed solely by opening steam right now
23:32:04  omg Fiora you're feeding the sickness
23:32:08  elliott: hello whats your steam
23:32:20  P.S. my only Civilisation experience is watching nooodl_ play the original one while sleep deprived
23:32:25  elliott, can we play portal 2 yet you shit
23:32:37  nooodl_, were you livestreaming
23:32:47  Phantom__Hoover: uh this computer can run portal
23:32:52  it probably can't run portal 2 very well
23:32:52  so many things i didn't know about people!
23:33:06  what >_<
23:33:06  free for a weekend as in you get it on weekend and then its free forever like with portal or does it stop being playable after the weekend
23:33:06  elliott, have you tried turning all the graphics sliders down
23:33:06  yeah i was!
23:33:18  what sickness
23:33:31  uh, the preordering one i guess
23:33:34  Phantom__Hoover: i haven't even tried installing it
23:33:39  elliott, imo try
23:33:39  mnoqy: the latter
23:33:40  I preorder a lot of games, um, is that bad
23:33:46  i want to try that damn thing
23:34:53  but like... I've... probably kind of lost at least like 200 hours to civ 5
23:34:54  Fiora, well with digital distribution it's kind of weird? and i've seen it criticised a lot for being used as a vehicle for scummy business practices
23:34:56  maybe even more to civ 4
23:35:25  Phantom__Hoover: I guess?  I know a lot of companies (at least ones I tend to preorder from like NISA, Atlus, Aksys, etc) use preorders to judge how many copies they should print
23:35:32  plus there's discounts and stuff
23:37:03  am i sick
23:37:04  seems a bit weird to project physical sales based on digital preorders, but that's just a nitpick
23:37:11  i understand if there're discounts though
23:37:32  True, I guess I don't really do digital preorders for those... I don't know if they even offer them
23:37:51  I kind of tend to preorder things that I know I'll end up getting anyways
23:39:00  weird to think about people who are still getting taller
23:39:58  kmc: im baby
23:41:00  I think I stopped getting taller about 9 years ago :/
23:41:38  i'm pretty sure i stopped getting taller but i just don't know any more
23:41:50  have i stopped getting taller
23:42:08  kmc grew glasses since the last time i saw him
23:42:11  so i guess he's still growing
23:42:31  growing / decaying
23:42:49  growing glasses, decaying eyes
23:42:54  kmc is a cyborg now
23:43:10 -!- epicmonkey has joined.
23:45:24  kmc, here's a situation that Rebol can't handle nicely, but I don't think Kernal and Qoppa can handle it nicely either, you tell me:
23:45:27  I have glasses too... does that make me a cyborg?
23:45:32 -!- augur has joined.
23:45:40  Yep.
23:45:50  whoa I can become a cyborg if I get glasses?
23:45:55  Yep.
23:46:13  does anyone know how to ruin my eyesight, staring at a computer all day for most of my life doesn't seem to have worked
23:46:14  Suppose you want an environment, that looks for set!s. Within this form that you're making, any symbols that are set! to are in their own scope, any that are not use the surrounding scope.
23:46:31  or does it count if i get those fake glasses that don't actually do anything
23:46:48  elliott: give it time
23:47:00  elliott: you can just get non-prescription ones, they're super cheap too
23:47:12  That is, (context (print x) (set! x 0)) prints some kind of null value, no matter what the outside x is, but (context (print x)) prints the outside x
23:47:14  and they'll probably look cute on you!  bonus
23:47:23  Can you make such a thing in Kernel or Racket?
23:47:25  get "google" glasses
23:47:29  imo
23:47:32  Erm, not Racket
23:47:35  Kernel or Qoppa
23:47:36  1000% cyborger
23:47:48  Fiora, mnoqy, no, jesus
23:47:56  get the strongest glasses you can find
23:48:12  that's sure to fuck your eyesight up
23:48:24  eeesh, if you have good vision don't waste it <_>  
23:48:34  being basically blind isn't fun 
23:48:52  but you can not see things!
23:49:10  Sgeo: just literal (set! ...) forms? also i already hate this
23:49:12  i, too, can close my eyes and go to sleep and then see even better thhings because imd reaming
23:49:28  i've worn (other people's) strong glasses for laffs before
23:49:32  it uh
23:49:38  looks pretty much like what i'd imagine bad eyesight looks like
23:49:48  Bike, fwiw I'm describing something you can't do in Rebol nicely
23:49:56  i've had opportunitys to wear "google" glasses but iv declined them
23:50:12  elliott, this is in fact how bad eyesight works hth
23:50:47  Sgeo: what is that worth and to whom
23:51:07  elliott: what kind glasses
23:51:07  ion: haha, did that make you do /last ndit?
23:51:16  which way do you want to ruin your eyes
23:51:16  shachaf: the uh... the glassy kind
23:51:18  not the google kind
23:51:31  yes but do you want to be uh nearsighted or farsighted or what
23:51:31  elliott: ^Rndit
23:51:33  foresighted
23:52:27  I don't think either is very fun...
23:52:43  maybe jellyfishsighted
23:52:51  sigh-ted
23:53:19  mnoqy: whoa why
23:53:24  I love the Finnish word huoh. It’s kinda like sigh, but with more despair. There is no happy huoh.
23:53:39  nooodl_: why did i have the opportunity or why did i decline
23:53:46  why'd you decline
23:53:48  but also the former
23:54:20  i know someone who has them & i didnt ask to wear them when he was passing them around for everyone to wear
23:54:58  i know someone who has them 2
23:55:02  can we be in a club 2gether
23:55:35  :o maybe
23:55:37  4 real⸘
23:56:06  wow you guys have cool friends ugh
23:56:20  anyway i don't think i'd ever wear them seriously
23:56:29  like how much of a douche would you look like. honestly
23:56:37  shachaf: Irssi sucks in some regards, Weechat sucks in other regards. I don’t really find either considerably better than the other.
23:56:37  nooodl_: hey mnoqy is cool maybe he can be your friend
23:56:39  i really wanna try them out once though
23:56:42  nooodl_: have you seen how dorky they look
23:56:46  A: superemely dorky
23:56:47  yes :')
23:56:56  and also going
23:57:00  "glass, do this dumb thing for me"
23:57:02  in public
23:57:03  ion: what are you responding to
23:57:11  elliott: shachaf’s CTCP commands
23:58:02  i was all like CTCP ION HEY WHAT'S UP WHAT IRC CLIENT SHOULD I USE
23:58:16  shachaf: You should totally write an IRC client that doesn’t suck. Perhaps you could write it in @.
23:58:28  ion: Maybe you should use sorear's IRC client!
23:58:49  I heard he wrote one.
23:59:10  https://github.com/sorear/soric/blob/master/MANUAL
23:59:16  I guess he's not even in here.
23:59:17  im going to bed ｈｔｈ
23:59:36  an IRC client in @ would be so easy. you could use monoids
23:59:53  what's @ again
23:59:57  nooodl_: yes