> 1371926875 391394 JOIN :#esoteric < 1371926876 1954 :glogbot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1371926877 638952 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1371926878 122772 :EgoBot!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric > 1371926879 514314 JOIN :#esoteric > 1371926880 31447 JOIN :#esoteric < 1371926941 931779 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1371926970 58508 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hi < 1371927782 393759 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different point of reference, different wavefunction, and all that stuff, is part of what my point is when I was saying those things. < 1371928564 312407 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1371928652 410964 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1371928710 427721 :AnotherTest!~AnotherTe@94-224-28-191.access.telenet.be PART :#esoteric < 1371928783 794303 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this may be the dumbest thing I have ever seen http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/introducing-the-nsa-proof-font < 1371928785 21609 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1371928803 714228 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They think it's impossible to have OCR software trained to recognize a new font? < 1371928825 979517 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1371928833 261757 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: Their "false" font, which has a large letter and a small letter where the small letter is the real letter, guess what? real a maps to fake z < 1371928841 114319 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And so forth < 1371928848 820970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you aware of captchas < 1371928910 391927 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Captchas don't use one specific font though. I think if there was a captcha that always turned a into one of 6 shapes, it would be defeated easily < 1371928918 215468 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are six 'fonts' in this package) < 1371928980 280038 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were software that created a new font for each document based on this concept, that might be useful, but as-is? < 1371928980 336367 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where would I be able to find a 100x100 nonogram? < 1371929018 856211 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that NSA < 1371929039 384318 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, < 1371929042 306823 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Sang has no illusions that even a clever cryptographic font—which you can use in email messages to shield them from snoops and font-recognition bots—will remain encoded for long. They're not meant to be long-term tools with which to combat the NSA. Rather, he views them as an awareness-raising measure. < 1371929047 471295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read more: http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/introducing-the-nsa-proof-font#ixzz2WyW8HBod < 1371929050 467747 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1371929052 499558 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well ]] < 1371929054 899412 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid copy-paste hijacker < 1371929054 957349 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1371929118 533331 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The video doesn't exactly make it clear < 1371929145 672188 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :encoding as images seems kind of inefficient if you're just using it for email < 1371929171 644453 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea where I got that link from < 1371929386 741954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does Verilog use a list of I/O ports rather than a single bit vector as the I/O port of a module? < 1371929448 17693 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make up "HWPL" which does not have these and the other problem of Verilog and other hardware programming languages. < 1371930207 668859 :sebbu3!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1371930226 350157 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1371930474 965625 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: why are you in that channel help < 1371930521 47783 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott's scheming. < 1371930536 643411 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike has been in #haskell before! I'm innocent! < 1371930546 505186 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I am scheming. constantly < 1371930611 992007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :well take it to #scheme < 1371930790 145815 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Fark. < 1371930802 470472 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Is where I got that link from) < 1371930819 80849 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible. < 1371930888 594454 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fark.com/comments/7809821/Introducing-NSA-Proof-Font-a-typeface-that-would-be-unreadable-by-text-scanning-software-whether-used-by-a-government-agency-a-lone-hacker-misdirecting-information-sometimes-not-giving-any-at-all < 1371930895 155325 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think most Farkers understand this < 1371931349 16035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1371931551 711216 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- is it just me or does that subreddit have css that places a red dot in a fixed position on the screen, so it looks like something's wrong with it... < 1371931555 210655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1371931562 470369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :* http://www.reddit.com/r/AdviceAnimals/comments/1gu52n/back_in_my_day/ <-- < 1371931660 596788 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't see the red dot < 1371931671 18891 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1371931776 29718 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1371931822 898520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1371931846 617528 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloerjan < 1371931850 224924 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no Bike left < 1371931854 555019 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1371931859 657645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no he's right there < 1371931861 954466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hike < 1371931865 750439 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :left #haskell < 1371931867 999924 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1371931878 321549 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yow < 1371931878 607326 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are we on STRIKE yet? < 1371931881 942113 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a terrible person (the jokes is that i also left #haskell) < 1371931891 305121 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: indeed < 1371931892 644364 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :himc < 1371932233 624074 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@yow! < 1371932233 832203 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :America!! I saw it all!! Vomiting! Waving! JERRY FALWELLING into < 1371932233 943159 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :your void tube of UHF oblivion!! SAFEWAY of the mind ... < 1371932240 383184 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@fortune < 1371932240 653002 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Succumb to natural tendencies. Be hateful and boring. < 1371932242 509796 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1371932597 643575 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bored < 1371932621 432376 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too. < 1371932812 693987 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1371932812 715702 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371932819 856420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ban me < 1371932828 342220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.* > 1371932828 365288 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371932834 767051 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that about right? < 1371932855 503133 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hagb4rd? looks it < 1371932857 926879 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*!*@* would be better. < 1371932863 966554 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ban evasion btw) < 1371932869 730854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1371932869 753158 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371932880 624906 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could remove the 77. on the grounds that nobody should use a client that advertises itself as "hand-crafted" :P < 1371932891 390579 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T SAY < 1371932897 439900 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 77.* includes, like, a ton of stuff, but I doubt it'll come up < 1371932905 983872 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it's all mediaways < 1371932931 417389 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. (how do you look that up? I don't really know where to get this information except the ARIN whois stuff) < 1371932950 494336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :host 77.0.0.0 on the command line... < 1371932957 292459 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. that would work. < 1371932977 880388 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :er except < 1371932981 871266 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :255.255.255.77.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer 77-255-255-255.adsl.inetia.pl. < 1371932989 315053 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really want .0.0.0 there do you? < 1371932993 204298 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want information for the whole of the range < 1371933013 538190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i always thought 0 was the wildcard there < 1371933035 95897 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, what’s wrong with whois? < 1371933097 485861 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like a hug < 1371933110 97367 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hug Taneb < 1371933110 533037 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/newticket?type=bug < 1371933123 508718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some things I decided can be: Numbers are binary by default (and can have X and Z in them too), unless you put # or $ to indicate decimal or hexadecimal numbers. All user-defined words must have prefix, so it won't conflict built-ins and binary numbers. The operators + - * / = < > are static operators so it is only used at compile-time; you could check equal at runtime by &(.X~^.Y) instead though. < 1371933127 176789 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this better? < 1371933238 537942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: hm maybe there isn't actually a wildcard system as i've always thought < 1371933251 106031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: how can you use whois to get information like "$ISP owns this range in 77.*"? < 1371933297 196994 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :whois 77.0.0.0, see where the range ends, add one, whois that, rinse, repeat. < 1371933314 665391 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone might have made a tool to automate that. < 1371933337 798914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: ok i just tried whois with the exact ip < 1371933380 27856 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: I assign oerjan :P < 1371933397 479662 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1371933397 502175 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371933403 936789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what are X and Z for < 1371933410 107713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -b :*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.* > 1371933410 129927 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371933419 90185 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.180.* > 1371933419 112122 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371933419 328810 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: X is for an unknown or don't care value, and Z is for high impedance. < 1371933426 312720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did hagb4rd try to evade a ban or osmething? < 1371933426 986324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1371933427 8823 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371933430 888227 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ah, for a HDL, I see < 1371933433 91502 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i thought GmbH was a company < 1371933433 707781 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1371933434 871174 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am the worst < 1371933437 254587 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what whois said the range was, so. < 1371933441 798686 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a type of company < 1371933455 7013 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the famous Inc company < 1371933456 536633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah I thought that too at one point < 1371933488 460720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a magazine named Inc but the company is Mansueto Ventures < 1371933497 543182 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's terrible < 1371933501 268634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: utoneq/untoneq was hagb4rd < 1371933505 101568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you 77.181 is owned by the same company. oh well. < 1371933508 979927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1371933519 553803 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The things I have written about above aren't sensible unless it is a hardware programming language anyways. < 1371933540 703241 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have guessed < 1371933547 872242 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from patterns of talking < 1371933561 488291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I realised it was a regular but I had to look up the IP to realise it was hagb4rd < 1371933565 45243 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? < 1371933580 958279 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :who even is hagb4rd < 1371933588 855165 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why else would arithmetic operators only at compile-time and numbers being in binary notation by default? < 1371933589 304330 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I’m looking forward to the monad tutorial he will inevitably write. < 1371933590 345797 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imo op kmc so I can bother him instead. this is a serious proposal. < 1371933612 907767 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it when people demand an explanation for X by comparison to some Y or Z they erroneously think is related < 1371933631 170425 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple < 1371933633 379992 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :one more element < 1371933636 990632 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1371933660 841760 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought a monad had but one element! < 1371933661 773387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am willing to serve as an #esoteric op if my service in such capacity is desired < 1371933671 151926 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn that's some campaign speech < 1371933674 655248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc for president < 1371933682 12886 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Which one? < 1371933702 60855 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I wasn't being serious :P < 1371933711 320392 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, perhaps, the identity element < 1371933755 600792 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now I am sleepy < 1371933762 61497 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is not even 10 o'clock < 1371933786 115646 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"really, a monad is just a category with seven elements where each morphism has two inverses" < 1371933894 336359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :each inverser than the other < 1371933961 219606 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1371934128 951687 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Is that unique to monads though? < 1371934135 715759 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934145 417594 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934147 926538 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: two spaces!! < 1371934168 708989 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a set is nothing like a tuple < 1371934178 537173 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuck right < 1371934179 508906 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :R I P < 1371934185 461149 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just in a file right i could sed it < 1371934185 951204 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :R I P < 1371934199 12834 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tuple is a set, if that's how you define tuples < 1371934200 355981 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :h-t-h < 1371934222 908024 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a set is a tuple if that's how you define sets! check and mate < 1371934223 758167 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3,3) is a perfectly valid tuple though < 1371934236 593583 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :check before you mate < 1371934238 798891 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :paging kuratowski < 1371934241 431166 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :{3, {3, 3}} is a valid set < 1371934241 880545 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty easy to define ordered pairs with sets, dude < 1371934256 3012 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1371934258 544440 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: Isn't that {3, {3}} though < 1371934262 763037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '1059s/ <[^ ]/ \&/' quotes < 1371934266 587888 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1371934272 238220 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1059 < 1371934274 183270 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? &lliott> kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934274 380236 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah you can't define tuples like that, because < 1371934279 939083 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1371934283 825611 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw defining types like tuples in terms of sets is terrible for mathematics. :( < 1371934284 257363 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1371934287 952102 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1371934296 865965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '1059s/ <[^ ]/ &/g' quotes < 1371934297 898700 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you define (a, b) = {a, {b}} < 1371934300 117611 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :&lliott < 1371934300 953766 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :({0}, 0) would be {{0}, {0}} < 1371934301 380180 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1371934304 298294 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1059 < 1371934305 147542 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: here, let me define types as products of prime powers < 1371934306 111493 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934316 930608 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :A tuple is some elements, where they have an inherent order and can repeat < 1371934332 702895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: type. theory. < 1371934338 259973 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :&lliot < 1371934342 796686 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :defined in terms of primes. < 1371934343 791988 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth. < 1371934377 827671 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've rewritten the HoTT source as a diophantine. no need to thank me. < 1371934391 904467 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thike. < 1371934420 82669 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no need to thank me" that's for sure < 1371934430 441912 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dream: asking a SO question that becomes a #1 google search result, gaining fifty thousand rep for nothing < 1371934454 643965 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ok, I make a point to thank Bike as little as possible < 1371934488 953557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=call/cc+implementation&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&ei=EQ_GUbmTIZDwhQetsYCoDg bam < 1371934492 596981 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's not #1 for everyone < 1371934506 435109 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: nice < 1371934524 940921 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"voted" you "up" < 1371934541 189972 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my voting rings expands further < 1371934544 46698 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-s < 1371934553 559254 :nooodl!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1371934736 615618 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '1059s/ utoneq/utoneq/' quotes < 1371934739 822502 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1371934741 761564 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1059 < 1371934742 625466 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc..... < 1371934743 174501 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1059) 05:09 what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934745 991295 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's falsifying the quote < 1371934747 445321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott..... < 1371934750 183700 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true < 1371934752 363211 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you should do is fix your client to not include that awful space < 1371934753 696253 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fiiiiiine < 1371934754 878581 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then we can repeat the exchange < 1371934758 355164 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add that < 1371934761 911652 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i '1059s/utoneq/ utoneq/' quotes < 1371934765 36397 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Well, okay, it's enlightening if you already know what it means. " good writing here < 1371934765 413793 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1371934766 228903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote 1059 < 1371934767 888012 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1059) 05:09 < utoneq> what exactly is a monad.. and where is the difference to a set or a tuple? kmc: the difference is that a monad is a triple one more element < 1371934772 440903 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: monad tutorial? < 1371934772 746463 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i was pretty tired < 1371934811 295379 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :call/cc tutorial < 1371934829 105302 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: my rambling SO answer < 1371934855 727645 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: http://www.vex.net/~trebla/haskell/cont-monad.xhtml < 1371934874 168448 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1371934894 612944 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: URL? < 1371934908 893095 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9050725/call-cc-implementation < 1371934915 231986 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :thike < 1371934932 671400 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-23-125-3.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1371935081 135852 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1371935437 920532 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1371935450 144159 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :oerjan > 1371935450 167782 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371935462 20755 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1371935479 301820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -b :*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.180.* > 1371935479 324431 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371935496 737842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric +b :*!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.* > 1371935496 762097 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371935504 130615 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no MODE #esoteric -o :oerjan > 1371935504 153850 NAMES :#esoteric < 1371935601 456091 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's kiwiirc and why's it banned < 1371935614 323168 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kawaiirc < 1371935622 800622 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hand-crafted < 1371935662 703014 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :forbidden crafts < 1371935667 406634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ban evasion < 1371935760 733093 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also "trusted" by freenode, whatever that means. < 1371936122 686283 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re the earlier discussion on networks, you can ask RIPE whois queries like "77/8 except not the exact match but all first-level more specific inetnum/route objects" to see what all is in a thing. (Though it's a long list for that particular query.) < 1371936179 157394 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Including, among others, some Norwegians, which would be a tragic loss indeed.) < 1371936209 765981 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i just extended it to all ips since i found a completely different range in the logs < 1371936228 762430 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and afaiu no one else in the channel has ever used that client. < 1371936278 862175 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(approximately, anyway) < 1371936280 409603 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's ban evading on kiwiirc, spammers? < 1371936282 66294 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Thor-Henrik Kvandahl" (the admin contact for Telenor Norge's 77.16.0.0/14 block) sounds incredibly stereotypically Norwegian. < 1371936297 589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the Thor-Henrik part. < 1371936302 26312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl^: hagb4rd < 1371936307 754133 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :thor-henrik < 1371936373 650573 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good < 1371936378 127307 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the kvandahl is a stereotypically norwegian toponym. < 1371936383 290473 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah. < 1371936400 453707 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's an objective reason to ban him < 1371936517 36582 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's great about ban evasion < 1371936525 735689 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, if I ban someone in #haskell, I hope they evade the ban < 1371936537 197260 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it means I can ban them forever and not have to worry about them appealing < 1371936565 761276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Philosophy question: why are Thunderbird's once-a-day builds codenamed "Daily", while Firefox's are called "Nigthly"? < 1371936579 637716 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nightly, that is. < 1371936586 621322 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://adit.io/posts/2013-04-17-functors,_applicatives,_and_monads_in_pictures.html this is probably the best explanation i've read so far < 1371936588 595284 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be even more puzzling if they were called Nigthly. < 1371936828 148647 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a monad tutorial!! < 1371936845 769964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl^...... < 1371936857 772933 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know exactly what analogy ill use too!! < 1371936896 141599 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl^ analogy < 1371936916 258201 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are like noodles < 1371936925 512417 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it would work better for comonads < 1371936931 465714 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate goes from noodle to nooodle to noooodle < 1371936933 309040 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :its gonna compare IO to sheet music < 1371936935 848970 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1371936948 833695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: That explanation looks like it's full of misleading things. :-( < 1371936963 582732 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: it does? < 1371936967 796651 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: at what point? < 1371937005 459058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example all 24 points that it talks about "wrapped values". < 1371937018 288031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's my clever quote about IO String? < 1371937027 425027 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote IO.String < 1371937027 497290 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf says: getLine :: IO String contains a String in the same way that /bin/ls contains a list of files < 1371937033 192682 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's your clever quote < 1371937040 601452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I had one too, equally clever though < 1371937043 68378 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc IO.String < 1371937043 366630 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: it is not hard to troll #haskell for real; you just have to get confused and confrontational about how to convert IO String to String < 1371937050 674205 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : c.c < 1371937053 375908 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: what's wrong with it? < 1371937067 597910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an IO String is not a String that's been wrapped or "tainted" somehow < 1371937083 70394 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a recipe for how to produce a String by doing some IO < 1371937096 479150 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the String doesn't exist yet; you might never execute the recipe, or you might execute it more than once and get different Strings < 1371937104 443586 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of which contradicts the idea that the recipe itself is an inert, pure value < 1371937107 568586 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo shachaf's quote is cleverer than kmc < 1371937108 728543 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1371937110 736242 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1371937114 640161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom IO.String < 1371937114 909341 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: How do I extract the IO out of IO String? < 1371937119 264784 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even cleverer than kmc's quote < 1371937125 954653 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love shachafs quote < 1371937131 387212 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: but for example a Maybe String *is* a wrapped String (or Nothing) < 1371937145 883709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :from which we conclude that this idea of "wrapping" is not fundamental to monads, but a property of the implementation of *some* particular monads < 1371937178 186177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's very little you can say about all monads in general, because it's such a general interface < 1371937190 198272 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have trouble "understanding monads" partly because they expect there to be more to it than there is < 1371937208 478785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of all the stupid bullshit hype by detractors and overexcited beginners alike < 1371937216 94839 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there actually anyone who doens't understand this stuff < 1371937237 151015 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah i just go off on autopilot < 1371937242 426842 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is a monad like a writing desk < 1371937243 286433 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there like a table of common monad instances and their implementation of return, bind, join < 1371937251 770108 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe I've at least convinced myname why "wrapping" is not a good analogy < 1371937257 790452 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be a good tutorial < 1371937271 709919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a monad is like a butt < 1371937292 932529 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i agree in the part that "wrapping" as in "putting something around something other" is not a good analogy < 1371937353 140728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So which part is good about that explanation you liked? < 1371937359 951460 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know about data IO a = Return a | Bind b (b -> IO a) < 1371937374 213490 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1371937377 680404 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the visualisation of the types is well made imo < 1371937383 38107 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : | PutChar Char (IO ()) | GetChar (Char -> IO ()) | ... < 1371937386 798866 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1371937395 16301 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1371937402 164689 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help b is not in scope < 1371937403 336396 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1371937413 308504 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but I think that Bind isn't quite right, also it's existentially quantified or something?) < 1371937429 228268 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would write it as a GADT in a real .hs < 1371937444 532629 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1371937450 16381 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1371937479 320453 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1371937486 978261 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be | forall b. Bind (IO b) (b -> IO a) < 1371937496 857229 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that IO String is a string wrapped up in the sense that you need to perform an interactive computation to get it out < 1371937556 594933 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wrapped" meaning "monad"?? < 1371937563 632262 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "covariant".... < 1371937625 378245 :nooodl^!~nooodl@78-21-40-107.access.telenet.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1371938205 455794 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :katla: no, there is no String in there < 1371938216 699255 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a description of some IO which you could perform in the future to get a String < 1371938226 145358 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, katla has a point; there often is. < 1371938251 327123 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there exists a sequence of responses to its requests such that it terminates in a Return then there is a String "inside" the IO String in the same way that Bool -> String is a container of two Strings < 1371938259 391582 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, yeah, but that doesn't mean that "wrapping" is a useful way to think about IO String < 1371938268 449153 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it mostly shows that "inside" is too vague to really be useful... < 1371938271 704967 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I hate talking about monad tutorials < 1371938281 258531 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can make this analogy work only if we torture the definition of "wrap" to mean something completely alien to its English meaning < 1371938287 656978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is how a lot of monad tutorials work out < 1371938303 117095 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are just containers! as long as you forget everything you know about what the word "container" means < 1371938320 644692 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc just.containers < 1371938320 796634 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :No quotes match. Maybe you made a typo? < 1371938322 555672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc container < 1371938322 660889 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: [After discussing monads, containers, and tortillas] therefore the key difference between a container and a monad is delicious carne asada < 1371938324 760248 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote kmc container < 1371938324 780680 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc says: monads are like containers, as long as you forget everything you know about the meaning of the word "container" and take it to be a totally abstract word synonymous with "monad" < 1371938327 749367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads are like slip covers < 1371938331 166672 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i accuse you of plagiarising yourself < 1371938360 197496 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "analogy" just exists to trick people into learning a new abstract concept without being scared off by omg math words < 1371938496 783962 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A monad has two functions, return and (>>=) --" "OMG math!" "Fine, a monad is like a burrito. A burrito has two functions, return and (>>=) ..." < 1371938558 477860 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with you < 1371938571 411140 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does kmc say to vegetarian burritos < 1371938573 542445 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkmate < 1371938597 686537 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=50029 < 1371938628 128646 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use Free (CoYoneda f) instead of putting all of the PutChar GetChar in that IO data, which has some problem anyways it isn't a monad (unless it is a private data type), but Free (a functor) is monad, always. < 1371938637 726931 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: haha < 1371938645 897235 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free as in CoYoneda < 1371938650 168419 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :RESOLVED WONTFIX imo < 1371938659 496806 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey kmc do you like CoYoneda < 1371938665 528015 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "the best type" imo < 1371938706 894492 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am listening to something arond 357 kHz and I have no idea what it is < 1371938752 10789 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :frames of hitler interleaved with plans to build a wormhole endpoint < 1371938793 359543 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I thought of is "oracle sequent calculus", add a "oracle operator", for example if it is called # then you add an axiom schema |- #x if and only if |- x is not provable. < 1371938844 766500 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the lesson i'm getting here is: why the hell are CS people scared of math < 1371938877 860239 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wrapping" as in "putting something around something other" <-- also, lol < 1371938880 268634 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :math is great, but i like my math with less than 3 abstraction layers < 1371938899 356960 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, seems to be aeroport related? < 1371938924 29790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Why do you think 3 abstraction layers is too much? < 1371938924 286878 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: what kind of radio do you have < 1371938933 25999 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: I got one of the cheap DVB dongle software-defined radios < 1371938933 720982 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads as in haskell seem like a pretty straightforward abstraction < 1371938941 119142 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monads are like monoids in endofunctors < 1371938948 421391 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty neat. doesn't go down to 357 kHz though < 1371938952 714903 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I'm using websdr < 1371938962 476347 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not "too much", but way to abstract if not told carefully < 1371938971 934641 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://websdr.ewi.utwente.nl:8901/ < 1371939077 129063 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nifty < 1371939109 350121 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it samples the /whole/ spectrum?? wow < 1371939156 827097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whole shortwave or something < 1371939176 633620 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping you meant, like, the /whole/ spectrum. < 1371939194 521165 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be cool to listen to gamma rays < 1371939233 320105 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't they be pretty repetitive < 1371939235 159445 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt. white noise < 1371939371 400653 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if any neutrino detectors are online in this manner < 1371939380 27842 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is a neutrino detector < 1371939418 467103 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott has a neutrino allergy < 1371939426 669521 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf does too < 1371939438 75632 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be bad < 1371939450 673757 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it is :'( < 1371939457 314258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing kmc is immune < 1371939477 585212 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought neutrino detectors didn't detect very much. < 1371939482 974353 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :often. < 1371939510 149540 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm sure you could make some sort of a social media game out of one. < 1371939521 939997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes "ping" in your facebooks and whatnot. < 1371939526 565466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: for every neutrino we detect there are trillions which go undetected < 1371939529 490683 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: scary thought eh < 1371939776 804727 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can only interact through the weak interaction < 1371940085 790578 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :help there's such a thing as a monadic functor < 1371940090 273060 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not the same as a monad) < 1371940662 381280 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians are the worst < 1371940674 745576 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, shachaf is the worst < 1371940676 897882 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :mathematicians come in second < 1371940732 615799 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1371940792 267162 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :katla: hey did you hear about the homotopy type theory book? I don't know if you're interested < 1371940831 437701 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is katla < 1371940853 205620 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw it < 1371940868 913803 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1371940892 522781 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1371941119 461643 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1371943561 183611 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bored < 1371943615 6693 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people are bored in #esoteric today < 1371943622 673748 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so < 1371943634 579621 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least three < 1371943635 867616 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :including me < 1371943640 737968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is the third < 1371943680 898066 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :katla < 1371943694 846727 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you be bored < 1371943703 794613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much time, so little to do < 1371943768 953900 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ned to think of something new < 1371943776 178269 :katla!~brook@172.245.33.194 PRIVMSG #esoteric :t play with < 1371943808 86156 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: because life sucks, hope this helps < 1371943831 934426 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: instead of being bored you could read some more of that hott book you're such a big fan of < 1371943885 254 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you forgot to consider the part where I'm lazy < 1371944004 816101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you considered not being lazy < 1371944007 973857 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :checkmate < 1371945262 35080 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1371945414 956100 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-59-69.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric