←2013-06-25 2013-06-26 2013-06-27→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:02:44 -!- oerjan has set topic: The channel for "scare quoted" people | where even "hi" is a p. complicated in-joke | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
00:05:32 <myname> oerjan: i'm still learning
00:05:55 <oerjan> good, good
00:06:11 <shachaf> hi o'erjan
00:06:29 <katla> do you guys ever talk about anything interesting
00:06:45 <shachaf> no
00:07:03 <Fiora> I try sometimes but I'm not very good at starting conversations
00:07:09 <Fiora> and they don't seem to be interested in a lot of the stuff I am so
00:07:43 <shachaf> which stuff
00:08:09 <kmc> katla: what do you find interesting? you could try to start a conversation on one of those topics
00:08:11 <Phantom___Hoover> and now i reached the scene with the french guy ranting about how the french lost all their wars
00:08:18 <kmc> to me a lot of the conversations in here are interesting
00:08:26 <katla> im not really interested in stuff :/
00:08:27 <Phantom___Hoover> times never change :')
00:08:32 <kmc> even the ones that aren't me talking to myself
00:08:46 <Phantom___Hoover> katla, what about compactness `q. interesting imo'
00:08:58 <Bike> apocalypse now mentions france, huh
00:09:11 <katla> ho can we talk about compactness though
00:09:21 <katla> there's nothing to say
00:09:34 <kmc> in the 'redux' editions they run into some french colonists who are still around for some reason
00:09:54 <Phantom___Hoover> yeah
00:09:58 * shachaf likes the kmc talking to himself conversations
00:10:06 <shachaf> also the kmc talking to other people conversations
00:10:16 <Phantom___Hoover> i think it's an extension of the 'going backwards through vietnamese history' thing
00:10:49 <Fiora> shachaf: Um... I like astrophysics and computer architecture and strategy games and JRPGs and otome games and plushies and mahou shoujo and some other things and there doesn't seem to be that much overlap there
00:11:31 <kmc> Phantom___Hoover: ending with jungle warlords?
00:11:45 <Phantom___Hoover> i guess (i haven't reached that far yet)
00:11:50 <shachaf> i wanted to make bacteria plushies (bacteria are cute)
00:12:01 <Fiora> shachaf: you can buy those! I actually have two
00:12:14 <shachaf> Fiora: do they use the motto "gotta catch them all"
00:12:16 <shachaf> imo they should do that
00:12:18 <Fiora> http://www.thinkgeek.com/product/6708/
00:12:26 <kmc> uh clearly, a manga where magical girls learn astrophysics and computer architecture
00:12:28 <Fiora> a friend sent me the mono virus
00:12:38 <shachaf> how romantic
00:12:38 <Fiora> probably so he could say "I gave fiora kissing disease"
00:13:02 <Fiora> (he is a terrible^Wwonderful flirt)
00:13:14 <shachaf> Fiora: ok so those exist but maybe they didn't exist back when i thought about it
00:13:29 <Bike> what, no blood tube
00:13:45 <shachaf> An otome game (乙女ゲーム otome gēmu?, lit. "maiden game") is a video game that is targeted towards a female market, where one of the main goals, besides the plot goal, is to develop a romantic relationship between the female player character and one of several male, or occasionally female characters.
00:14:01 <Fiora> is "visual novel" a better general term <.<
00:14:19 <Phantom___Hoover> Fiora, so are you a fan of mass effect
00:14:36 <Bike> garrus isn't very bishie. imo.
00:15:13 <katla> can you read japanese?
00:15:21 <Phantom___Hoover> Bike, how do you know
00:15:29 <shachaf> hey i can money through gmail now
00:15:36 <shachaf> send
00:15:43 <kmc> it's like harry potter except they are all learning computer architecture
00:16:08 <nooodl> <kmc> uh clearly, a manga where magical girls learn astrophysics and computer architecture <-- id read this
00:16:14 <Bike> i'd also read it.
00:16:18 <kmc> me too
00:16:20 <nooodl> "just putting that out there"
00:16:25 <Phantom___Hoover> i wouldn't
00:16:43 <nooodl> "bad taste in manga"
00:16:57 -!- sacje has joined.
00:17:01 <Bike> yeah sorry phantom, objectively bad taste there.
00:17:06 <Fiora> I played mass effect 1 and 2 but I lost a bit of interest towards the end, I should play 3 sometime though
00:17:12 <Fiora> but I was like "aghghghg I have to download origin", and so I never did
00:17:19 <Fiora> garrus was pretty wonderful though
00:17:28 <Fiora> unfortunately my favorite character had no romance route, buuut
00:17:36 <Koen_> are you often like "aghghghg"?
00:17:39 <Bike> it was the opera guy wasn't it
00:17:44 <Bike> wasn't it
00:17:57 <Fiora> you mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXiU6kiq_Ms ?
00:18:11 <Bike> ayep.
00:18:21 <Fiora> Mordin was so completely amazing
00:18:28 <Phantom___Hoover> bless you, mordin
00:18:29 <Phantom___Hoover> blordin
00:18:50 <Bike> that musta been a fun acting job.
00:19:11 <Fiora> katla: I -wish- I could. but the amount of japanese I know could fit on half a page
00:19:36 <Bike> I for one am often like "aghghghg"
00:19:55 <Fiora> me too
00:20:07 <Phantom___Hoover> "I should play 3 sometime though" probably don't play it after... sanctuary?
00:20:22 <Phantom___Hoover> some would say you should stop after tuchanka
00:20:42 <Fiora> ?
00:21:00 <Phantom___Hoover> you know, the infamous ending/macroplot clusterfuck
00:21:05 <Fiora> I guess I kind of like bioware's older games better... I hope dragon age 3 is okay at least
00:21:38 <Fiora> and in fairness they have some really wonderful writers so...
00:21:40 <katla> Fiora hm why dont you write that all out then fill the rest of the page with new words and learn it all
00:21:53 <Bike> well there's like. a lot of it
00:21:59 <Fiora> because learning a language like that takes years of practice and dedication and is really difficult
00:22:34 <Phantom___Hoover> from what i understand, the talent pool at bioware has become incredibly diluted
00:23:18 <Phantom___Hoover> since they're now split across what, two or three different studios now? and they have a bunch more staff, and they're now locked into EA's AAA release cycle
00:23:24 <Fiora> yeah >_<
00:24:01 <shachaf> is armikrog going to make it y/n
00:24:13 <Phantom___Hoover> n
00:24:25 <ion> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog/
00:24:27 <shachaf> Pessimist__Hoover
00:24:28 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?").
00:24:54 <shachaf> ion: oh no :'(
00:26:05 <ion> Note that extrapolating from the last two or three data points seems enough for it to make it. So if the latest trend continues…
00:26:33 <Phantom___Hoover> man, that is pretty infuriating
00:26:40 <ion> http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1949537745/armikrog/#chart-daily
00:27:30 <pikhq_> Inquiry: I might be getting hired by Google. Yes or very yes on not finishing college?
00:27:54 <coppro> pikhq_: as in, dropping out and going to google?
00:28:04 <pikhq_> coppro: Si
00:28:14 <ion> $i
00:28:20 <coppro> pikhq_: if they're willing to actually have you do it, very yes, unless you're working on chrome (imo)
00:28:26 <ion> $√−1
00:28:34 <coppro> but if you're actually going to go full-time, internal mobility is high, so whatever
00:28:34 <pikhq_> So far made it past the initial phone screen.
00:28:46 <pikhq_> With them knowing that that's where I'm at.
00:29:33 <pikhq_> Noting also that I've been at least considering dropping out *as is*.
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00:30:30 <kgoret> pikhq_: count the number of times you hear "cool" in your interview. if more than 7 stay in school.
00:31:20 <pikhq_> kgoret: Google backend stuff.
00:32:05 <pikhq_> From a recruiter contacting me...
00:32:57 -!- augur has joined.
00:33:15 <Fiora> did you get a job offer or just a recruiter email?
00:33:27 <pikhq_> Recruiter email & initial interview.
00:35:21 <Fiora> I don't think that's any sort of guarantee you'll get a job at all... recruiters send out a whole bunch of emails, I don't think they have any influence on the interview process and whether or not you get a job
00:35:55 <pikhq_> It's not, I'm just hopeful. And gonna see where this leads.
00:36:35 <pikhq_> Also I'm getting kinda sick of going through college this fucking slowly.
00:37:39 <pikhq_> At the rate I'm going I'll be bald when I get my diploma.
00:38:28 <shachaf> a brilliant artist must be bald and daring
00:40:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
00:41:53 <kmc> coppro: why is chrome so bad, compared to google's 90000 other projects
00:41:59 <kmc> I think chrome is at least a lot more interesting
00:42:11 -!- Bike has joined.
00:42:29 <kmc> I think Google usually doesn't tell you what specific project you'd work on, until they give you an offer
00:42:32 <kmc> not sure
00:42:49 <kmc> kgoret: no it's all about "awesome" now
00:43:02 <pikhq_> They tell you the general area they'll be hiring in.
00:43:06 <kmc> ok
00:43:30 <kmc> you should think hard on whether you want to commit to being at Google a few years
00:43:34 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
00:43:42 <kmc> because absent a diploma, you'd be using that experience to sell future employers
00:43:56 <kmc> do you know which office you'd be in?
00:44:01 <pikhq_> Mountain View.
00:44:22 <kmc> cool
00:44:30 <shachaf> the cool office
00:44:33 <kmc> not as cool as SF, but I hear it's really hard to get a spot there
00:44:52 <kmc> it exists so that Google can acqui-hire SF startups who won't sell unless they can stay in the city ;P
00:44:53 <pikhq_> That *is* the Googleplex.
00:44:59 <shachaf> I hear SF isn't so much of an engineering office or something.
00:45:08 <kmc> well, I know some people doing engineering there
00:45:19 <kmc> pikhq_: Have you been applying to lots of jobs or is this just Google contacting you out of the blue
00:45:33 <coppro> kmc: I just don't like working on chrome
00:45:35 <pikhq_> kmc: Out of the blue.
00:45:47 <coppro> pikhq_: score
00:46:03 <kmc> pikhq_: do you think you have the patience & energy to do a bit of a job search to see if you can do better than Google (wrt whatever your own goals are)
00:46:13 <coppro> pikhq_: I highly recommend infrastructure teams if you can get there
00:46:22 <pikhq_> coppro: That's what I'm being recruited for.
00:46:33 <coppro> pikhq_: score!
00:46:46 <kmc> I have some regrets over not doing "job searches" in the past and mostly taking the first job that came along
00:46:48 <coppro> google infrastructure is like a playground
00:47:05 <coppro> kmc: no, I'm pretty sure there's few jobs in the world better than a Google infrastructure engineer
00:47:12 <pikhq_> kmc: Yeah, I'll probably be poking around some more. I'll just say this particular one is damned tempting.
00:47:56 <kmc> coppro: you're making some assumptions about what pikhq_ wants there
00:48:11 <kmc> it's pretty arrogant of you
00:48:19 <kmc> big companies have a lot of disadvantages too
00:48:43 <pikhq_> I'll possibly also see if my current internship can be made more... permanent.
00:49:19 <kmc> and Google corporate culture is not to everyone's liking
00:49:22 <kmc> no culture is
00:49:23 <coppro> kmc: everyone thinks exactly like me
00:49:27 <kmc> clearly
00:49:28 <coppro> including elliott in particular
00:51:52 <pikhq_> The fact that trans-related health care things are part of the benefits makes it somewhat more tempting, considering my girlfriend...
00:52:06 <kmc> yeah that's very nice
00:52:23 <Fiora> I remember reading google and microsoft were basically the two best in that category, so that's probably a good reason
00:52:40 <pikhq_> That really shouldn't be the sole basis on which I decide, but it definitely is something in their favor.
00:52:42 <kmc> from wording I assume you aren't married so, does Google cover non-married domestic partner whatever health care?
00:52:54 <kmc> some companies do
00:53:12 <pikhq_> Yes.
00:53:12 <kmc> mozilla will
00:53:12 <kmc> nice
00:53:13 <pikhq_> Also, it'd be literally impossible for us to marry as-is.
00:53:16 <kmc> sure
00:53:22 <pikhq_> Fucking gay marriage laws.
00:54:05 <coppro> pikhq_: well, hopefully that law won't be very soon
00:54:11 <pikhq_> Yeah.
00:54:39 <pikhq_> If we're lucky, it'll be moot in a day.
00:54:55 <Fiora> oooh, yeah, is the DOMA decision coming out tomorrow?
00:54:59 <pikhq_> Yes.
00:55:07 <Fiora> oh geez, I really really hope there's sanity >_<
00:55:24 <Fiora> I know people literally waiting on that to be able to be together (green cards, etc)
00:55:24 <Phantom___Hoover> DOMA decision?
00:55:25 <Bike> well uh you did hear bout their ruling today, didn't you.
00:55:28 <Bike> "not much hope for that"
00:55:35 <Bike> Phantom___Hoover: defense of marriage act
00:55:48 <pikhq_> I'd be stunned if they uphold prop. 8.
00:56:09 <Fiora> DOMA is the problematic one though, because it kind of doesn't matter if the state endorses a marriage if the federal government won't :/
00:56:12 <Bike> for sanity, i meant. not being too serious
00:56:31 <pikhq_> Yeah. I'm just saying that prop. 8 is nearly impossible to uphold because of the details of the case.
00:56:48 <pikhq_> The defense of prop. 8 was basically "gay people are icky!"
00:57:04 <kmc> Fiora: is that really true
00:57:10 <Fiora> kmc: you can't get a green card
00:57:17 <Fiora> you can't file taxes with the IRS, I think, as a couple
00:57:22 <pikhq_> Yup.
00:57:40 <pikhq_> Though Google will pay you the difference. :P
00:57:59 <kmc> but for example child custody, health care decisions, etc. would be mostly state issues, no?
00:58:04 <Fiora> I know a couple who's basically waiting on it, though they can cheat because one of them could probably legitimately get papers saying she was either male or female depending on what the government insisted on
00:58:09 <pikhq_> Yes, those are entirely state issues.
00:58:23 <kmc> so yes it's not a full victory but I think saying it "doesn't matter" is wrong
00:58:27 <pikhq_> Yeah.
00:58:37 <Fiora> yeah... I guess it matters in some ways? but like it's missing a lot of important parts
00:58:41 <kmc> also the more legally gay-married people exist, the more pressure there will be to repeal / strike down DOMA
00:59:03 <Bike> "hi we're married and fuck this thing"
00:59:04 <pikhq_> *Most* of the things dealing with marriage are state law issues actually.
00:59:06 <kmc> I generally get pissed off when people say "X is useless!" to mean "X isn't perfect", it happens a lot in discussions of computer security and things like that
00:59:13 <Bike> it's ok kmc
00:59:15 <Fiora> yeah, that's not what I meant >_< more like, it loses a lot of it
00:59:16 <Bike> there there
00:59:16 <Fiora> sorry
00:59:19 <kmc> ok
00:59:23 <Fiora> I should have phrased it better
00:59:30 <pikhq_> Green card, IRS, and federal employment benefits are, like, it
00:59:42 <coppro> pikhq_: you should come visit canada, get hitched, and leave
01:00:04 <pikhq_> Sneaky.
01:00:05 <Bike> "You managed to upload an image so large that Danbooru 2's thumbnailing job gets whacked by the OOM killer" in other news
01:00:15 <kmc> well done
01:00:59 <shachaf> Bike: was it a specially-crafted compressed image or something
01:01:00 <Fiora> the whole bypassing-the-problem-by-being-trans thing is interesting though
01:01:06 <Fiora> like I know a couple of two gay men who have been married for like, 15 years
01:01:12 <Fiora> which I think is longer than any state has allowed gay marriage
01:01:26 <Bike> shachaf: apparently unintentional!
01:01:35 <shachaf> how much of a compression ratio can you get
01:01:49 <Bike> oh, it's animated.
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01:02:18 <Bike> 13 MB.
01:02:19 <pikhq_> I know a couple that got divorced after one of them transitioned. That was interesting.
01:02:20 <Fiora> though it's maybe not as totally ridiculous as the thing that some lesbians apparently did back in the 70s, where one was younger than 18 and one was older, and they'd have the older one adopt the younger one to get legal/tax benefits @_@
01:02:30 <Bike> uh.
01:02:30 <pikhq_> Poor guy, getting asked if he was the wife.
01:03:15 <pikhq_> (note that the legal status is that the legal gender status *at the time* is what matters. If it was heterosexual and is now gay that's just fine!)
01:03:34 <Fiora> yeah, it's kind of an odd legal loophole
01:03:44 <Bike> you're a peach, US legal system. an incomprehensible peach
01:06:34 <pikhq_> I wonder what happens if you have a gay marriage in a state and then it becomes straight?
01:07:33 <Fiora> I... that... I have no idea
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01:07:47 <pikhq_> *There's* a confusing edge case for ya.
01:07:57 <Bike> iowa just implodes
01:08:01 <Fiora> the laws clearly need to be refactored or something
01:08:06 <Fiora> so that gender is no longer assumed to be const
01:08:20 <pikhq_> Or from the set {Male, Female}
01:08:46 <shachaf> does gender need to be mentioned
01:08:52 <pikhq_> Not generally.
01:09:12 <pikhq_> I... guess it matters for people who are exclusively andro- or gynophilic?
01:09:13 <Bike> http://qntm.org/gay bla bla
01:10:01 <Fiora> pan is the best orientation
01:10:19 <pikhq_> Yuh.
01:10:26 <zzo38> Or none at all, I suppose.
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01:11:55 <Bike> gender: basically a roman surface
01:11:58 <Bike> ???
01:12:07 <Phantom___Hoover> which one's the roman surface
01:12:18 <Bike> 's non-orientable and looks dumb
01:12:27 <Fiora> Bike: I am glaring at that author for thinking "asexual" is a sex
01:12:30 <Fiora> <.<;;
01:12:32 <kmc> quantum gay
01:12:37 <kmc> a quantum of gay
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01:13:36 <Bike> Fiora: presumably as in "lacks sexual organs"
01:13:49 <Bike> \rainbow{biology}
01:14:36 <Bike> i don't think i remember the usual term
01:14:53 <Bike> wikipedia doesn't have "list of sexes". imo, rage
01:15:21 * Fiora pulls up "sex is a social construction to justify gender" infographicdiagram, etc, etc
01:16:04 <Bike> yeah i know the problems with "lacks sexual organs" as a meaningful designation too
01:16:11 <Bike> peoplescience is hard
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01:16:26 <pikhq_> Fiora: I am pretty sure he thought "asexual" was just a natural construction for "devoid of (biological) sex".
01:16:39 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymorphous_perversity my god.
01:16:39 <Phantom___Hoover> what actually isn't a social construct
01:16:46 <Bike> pants
01:16:52 <Bike> the only Real objects
01:17:05 <Fiora> pikhq_: yeah, I know, I'm not being toooo serious
01:17:18 <Bike> i think i should pick up a psychoanalysis textbook sometime just for the humor value
01:18:14 * Bike looks up Category:Sexual_orientation, runs into "autovampirism"
01:18:33 <Phantom___Hoover> sucking the oil from cars
01:18:34 <kmc> in b4 category theory joke
01:18:36 <pikhq_> And obviously he has the weird gender-sex conflation in place.
01:19:12 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Fictional_asexuals i think this category needs some work
01:19:31 * Fiora looks, doesn't see sherlock holmes
01:19:50 <Bike> see, exactly.
01:19:51 <Phantom___Hoover> because he was gay for watson, duh
01:20:01 <Bike> or that chick in the spacecoyote comic.
01:20:03 <Fiora> the problem is it's usually not explicit in canon >_<
01:20:10 * Bike ends mental list of fictional asexuals
01:20:29 <Fiora> like sophie is sort of fan-assumed to be aromantic but....
01:21:15 <Phantom___Hoover> pilot!
01:21:47 <Bike> this reminds me that i should take a botany class because i have very little idea of how plants fuck and it seems fascinating
01:22:07 <kmc> the guy i voted for for senate won
01:22:15 <Bike> from twelve?
01:22:15 <kmc> that means i win too right
01:22:21 <kmc> no
01:22:30 <Bike> if twelve wins we all win
01:22:34 <kmc> imo no
01:22:38 -!- Phantom___Hoover has left ("Leaving").
01:23:20 <Bike> "(biology) Having no distinct sex, having no sexual organs." aha there we go
01:23:28 <Bike> now i just need to figure out a less ambiguous term
01:23:33 <shachaf> kmc: it means you have superpowers
01:23:39 <shachaf> kmc: vote for me next time hth
01:23:40 <Bike> this is CLEARLY not a doomed effort because sex is unambiguous
01:24:32 <pikhq_> Even friggin' biological notions of sex are complicated.
01:24:44 <Fiora> neuter....? though that's the name of a gender too :/
01:24:50 <Bike> "A statuette of Aphroditus in the anasyromenos pose. The ancient Greeks and Romans believed the pose had apotropaic magical power." this is going well.
01:25:02 <Fiora> Bike: http://pbfcomics.com/146/
01:25:15 <Bike> yeah but like
01:25:22 <Bike> hermaphroditic plants?? what's the deal
01:25:27 <Bike> i don't know the deal.
01:25:41 <Fiora> actually I kind of wonder like... why did animals ever stop being hermaphrodites
01:25:50 <kmc> imo read about sexual reproduction in fungi
01:26:03 <Fiora> like, isn't it more efficient to have two animals mate, and then they can *both* carry children, and stuff
01:26:07 <Bike> Fiora: that's one of the more old and controversial questions in evolutionary biology.
01:26:08 <Fiora> like snails
01:26:21 <Fiora> right :<
01:26:27 <Bike> i mean, it's interesting.
01:26:29 <katla> hey that's a really good question, why do so many species have two sexes?
01:26:58 <Fiora> I'm guessing it comes from the whole chromosomal thing? I mean like there's only a couple sex chromosome systems, right?
01:27:03 <Bike> As opposed to more, or as opposed to no differentiation?
01:27:07 <pikhq_> Fiora: There's several.
01:27:15 <pikhq_> Shit, there's two or three in the mammals.
01:27:22 <Fiora> there's... ZW, XY, X0, and temperature?
01:27:27 <Bike> there's also sexual differentiation systems not based on chromosomes
01:27:33 <pikhq_> Those are the common ones, Fiora.
01:27:33 <shachaf> Fiora: hey, do you want to be on `pbflist!!
01:27:40 <Bike> temperature for example isn't exclusive of ZW
01:27:41 <Fiora> "On November 3, 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a female Boa constrictor that can produce offspring without mating and, through such asexual reproduction, produced 22 female offspring" O_O
01:27:47 <shachaf> or, may i suggest......`pbflistdeluxe
01:27:53 <katla> woah
01:28:06 <Fiora> "The platypus has a ten-chromosome–based system, where the chromosomes form a multivalent chain in male meiosis, segregating into XXXXX-sperm and YYYYY-sperm, with XY-equivalent chromosomes at one end of this chain and the ZW-equivalent chromosomes at the other end."
01:28:09 <Bike> Fiora: you didn't know about that? we've known about [iforgettheword] for years
01:28:16 <Bike> also yes platypi are fucking nuts
01:28:21 <katla> ZW??
01:28:21 <Fiora> platypi are crazy
01:28:29 <Fiora> ZW is used by birds
01:28:33 <Fiora> and some other animals
01:28:34 <Bike> katla: sex chromosomes.
01:28:35 <pikhq_> And many reptiles.
01:28:43 <Bike> Ugh, what's the damn word.
01:28:51 <Bike> For females reproducing w/o insemination
01:28:53 <shachaf> zzo38 should design some biological systems imo
01:28:55 <kmc> parthenogenesis
01:29:00 <Bike> yes. thank you.
01:29:03 <kmc> some reptiles can do it yeah
01:29:15 <kmc> if you poke a frog egg with a pin it will start to grow into a haploid frog (??)
01:29:27 <Bike> haha those experiments are the best.
01:29:35 <Bike> "how can we fuck up frog eggs... oh. oh wow"
01:29:46 <pikhq_> Sex determination is best described as "complex".
01:29:56 <Bike> Too bad the woman who started them died young :(
01:30:15 <Fiora> oh, parthanogenesis, that's the thing
01:30:40 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnemidophorus_neomexicanus oh woowwww
01:30:42 <Fiora> it's an all-female species
01:30:48 <Bike> imo, matriarchy
01:30:54 <Bike> ah yeah that's the lizard i was thinking of.
01:30:59 <Bike> I think they were on Bill Nye or something.
01:31:12 <pikhq_> But yeah. Many species have two distinct sexes simply because sexual reproduction works based off of combination of male and female gametes.
01:32:01 <kmc> the two mating types of yeast are conventionally known as "a" and "α"
01:32:15 <Bike> lol.
01:32:28 * pikhq_ blinks
01:32:29 <kmc> looks like ascomycetes typically have two mating types, while basidiomycetes can have thousands
01:32:31 <Bike> Oh huh, there's a word specifically for two-sex reproduction, "anisogamy"
01:32:39 <pikhq_> There's a protozoan with 7 sexes.
01:32:46 <Fiora> 7... sexes....? wow
01:32:58 <kmc> thousands beats 7
01:33:06 <Bike> there's also different kinds of anisogamy based on which cells are motile.
01:33:07 <Bike> woohoo
01:33:14 <Bike> kmc for president of mushroom sex
01:33:33 <pikhq_> It has two separate nuclei.
01:33:49 <kmc> yeah
01:33:50 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basidiomycete#Smuts
01:33:51 <kmc> fungi do that too
01:33:54 <Bike> Smuts
01:33:55 <Fiora> there are basidiomycetes called "smuts"
01:34:09 <Fiora> I I just I can't
01:34:13 <kmc> when the haploid mycelia meet, if the mating types are compatible, the nuclei spread out and you get cells with one from each
01:34:37 <kmc> and it's that organism which can produce spores and a fruiting body
01:34:40 <pikhq_> Ah, yeah, corn smut. :P
01:34:40 <kmc> wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee mushrooms
01:34:48 <Bike> Fiora: what i'm getting out of this is that i should refer to people without sex as "anamorphs" because everybody liked that series
01:34:50 <Fiora> kmc likes his mushrooms XD
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01:35:18 <Fiora> Bike: I think the only thing I remember about that book series was the cute falcon boy
01:35:25 <Fiora> and there were like, blue horses
01:35:28 <Fiora> with psychic powers
01:35:32 <Bike> i never read it.
01:35:47 <Bike> man sometimes i forget how fucking amazing zoology is
01:35:54 <Bike> Distinguishing characteristic: Accordion-like extensible thorax
01:36:32 <Bike> Umbrella-like scales at each end
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01:36:52 <Bike> wow that one's name means "corset bearer" this is a pretty sexy... oh yeah i remember these things now.
01:37:02 <Bike> I downloaded an obscure NOAA manual just so i could get high res art of them
01:37:16 <pikhq_> I enjoyed Animorphs, though I was young.
01:37:20 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pliciloricus_enigmatus.jpg i mean, can you blame me? imo, no.
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01:37:31 <pikhq_> Fiora: Yeah, the Andalites. Fucking weird blue horse-men.
01:37:44 <Bike> "hello, i'm an old one"
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01:38:47 <Bike> "Mouth surrounded by invertible tentacles" is going on my grindr profile, i think
01:38:58 <Fiora> til: bike has a grindr profile
01:39:14 <pikhq_> I do not. Should I?
01:39:17 <Bike> i have six, one for each appendage
01:40:16 <Bike> What, how are there only six phyla of fungi.
01:40:26 <Bike> fuck you taxonomists
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01:41:17 <Fiora> is it wrong if I just want to like watch you squee over biology and zoology stuff for hours
01:41:18 <Bike> Oh, an entire phylum is just for "uh i dunno".
01:41:33 <Bike> Fiora: it's pretty boring to see. i just sit on the computer flicking through tabs
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01:42:00 <Bike> maybe it would be entertaining if i like juggled at the same time.
01:42:06 <Fiora> it's fun watching you from here :<
01:42:12 <Bike> «The Fungi imperfecti or imperfect fungi, also known as Deuteromycota, are fungi which do not fit into the commonly established taxonomic classifications of fungi that are based on biological species concepts or morphological characteristics of sexual structures because their sexual form of reproduction has never been observed; hence the name "imperfect fungi." » nevermind, this rules
01:42:34 <Bike> i wanna be one of these when i grow up
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01:42:48 <pikhq_> Fiora: I spend a lot of time doing that.
01:42:54 <kmc> yeah sometimes they have observed the sexually reproducing phase and the asexual phase but they don't know it's the same species
01:42:58 <pikhq_> I date a biologist. :P
01:43:03 <kmc> costs a lot of money to sequence the genome of every random fungus you find
01:43:23 <Bike> "For example, the ubiquitous and industrially important mold, Aspergillus niger, has no known sexual cycle." wait. fro real
01:43:27 <kmc> I think fungi are kind of the neglected kingdom when it comes to research money
01:43:42 <Bike> that's literally mold. we don't know how mold reproduces???
01:44:14 <Bike> kmc: it's kind of funny when we did that with animals (not knowing they're different forms of the same organism)
01:45:23 <katla> wtf how is that not known
01:45:34 <Bike> "In the heyday of the opium trade, chandu opium, which was meant to be smoked, was made by long term fermentation of A. niger and other molds on raw opium." I...
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01:46:25 <Bike> katla: well we know they do asexual sporing.
01:47:31 <katla> how do you guys all know so much biology btw
01:47:42 <Bike> reading wikipedia articles constantly
01:47:54 * Fiora doesn't actually know any biology
01:48:34 <pikhq_> katla: Read Wikipedia, talk about neat things found from said reading with my girlfriend.
01:48:38 <pikhq_> (who is a biologist)
01:48:46 <Bike> obviously i need to work on the second part.
01:48:50 <pikhq_> Clearly.
01:49:25 <pikhq_> I also have an amazing ability to shove random trivia in my head.
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01:49:52 <pikhq_> My coworkers are a little stunned that I can just talk in-depth about the archictectures of old game consoles.
01:49:59 <Fiora> I guess I absorb some things by talking with bike
01:50:04 <Fiora> or more like listening to him ramble about cool bio things
01:50:16 <Fiora> and I guess he probably absorbs tiny bits of my incomprehensible cpu nonsense or physics
01:50:29 <Bike> the shotgun slurry approach to learning
01:51:03 <pikhq_> Yup, that's me. Try to learn everything by gradually approaching mastery of all subjects simultaneously.
01:52:09 <Bike> i like how the isogamy article has sections (sexions) on biology and also anthropology
01:52:18 <Fiora> sexions?
01:52:40 <Bike> i started typing "sex" when writing "sections" because of the conversation.
01:52:42 <Bike> i'm such a perv man
01:53:15 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evolsex-dia2a.svg oh, cool graph.
01:53:20 <Bike> picture. thing.
01:53:33 <Fiora> bike really is a perv, gosh, he's probably undressing those arthropods with his eyes. gosh, what a creep!
01:53:57 <Bike> so, fruiting bodies, you come here often?
01:54:16 <pikhq_> Mmmm, perversion.
01:54:23 * pikhq_ is a definite pervosexual
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01:56:10 <Fiora> what does that even mean o_O
01:57:07 <Bike> stay away from me pikhq!! i have nematocysts and i'm not afraid to use them
01:57:20 <pikhq_> http://www.alessonislearned.com/index.php?comic=17 It means I read this.
01:57:41 <Bike> i still can't believe that updated again.
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02:50:06 <Sgeo> kmc, how's it working for pretty much the only web browser that exists, Mozilla 5.0?
02:51:37 <Sgeo> I'm sure there was a better way to make that joke
02:59:04 <kmc> i'm sure there was a not-incomprehensible way to make that joke
02:59:25 <Fiora> I heard shachaf is like, a total expert on being non-incomprehensible
03:00:27 <shachaf> Fiora: What, you're an intuitionist now?
03:00:33 <Fiora> ????
03:00:53 <shachaf> "non-incomprehensible"
03:00:57 <Fiora> oh. you're being incomprehensible
03:01:00 <Fiora> I see
03:01:03 <shachaf> I guess kmc was the intuitionist here.
03:01:04 <shachaf> ?
03:01:12 <shachaf> Why do you keep saying I'm incomprehensible?
03:01:36 <Fiora> e-elliott said he felt that way toob ut..... sorry
03:01:44 <Bike> do you like not see how that conversation works
03:01:55 <shachaf> Bike: ?
03:02:07 <Bike> "[incomprehensible joke]" "Why do you keep saying I'm incomprehensible?"
03:03:05 <shachaf> Fiora: Intuitionistic logic is logic where "not (not x)" doesn't necessarily imply "x".
03:03:38 <shachaf> You said not-incomprehensible. I thought it was a joke. But it turns out to be kmc's joke.
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03:09:34 <kmc> it wasn't a joke, it was double negation for emphasis
03:09:53 <kmc> if i said "i'm sure there was a comprehensible way to make that joke" it wouldn't have made the point as strongly that Sgeo's joke was incomprehensible
03:10:48 <shachaf> true enough
03:11:05 <Sgeo> Was trying to make a joke about the ubiquity of Mozilla/5.0
03:11:05 <kmc> not-not-false enough
03:11:11 <kmc> Sgeo: in user agents?
03:11:13 <Sgeo> yes
03:11:15 <kmc> ok
03:11:25 <shachaf> Fiora: Am I actually more incomprehensible than other people in here?
03:11:28 <kmc> well I haven't started working for Mozilla yet
03:12:24 <Fiora> shachaf: I... sorry I guess it kind of feels like that sometime...
03:12:33 <Fiora> elliott told me not to worry because it was normal to get confused...
03:14:42 <shachaf> How do I ask you a question without you feeling accused (or whatever it is)?
03:14:48 <kmc> shachaf makes a lot of oblique jokes
03:14:59 <shachaf> Anyway, I suspect elliott was joking when he said that, though I can't say for sure.
03:15:14 <zzo38> There are other kind of logic too, other than intuitionistic logic.
03:15:31 <shachaf> like non-intuitionistic logic and non-non-intuitionistic logic
03:15:33 <Fiora> I thought he was trying to ocomfort me...
03:15:36 <Fiora> now I'm confused...
03:16:17 <Bike> yeah he was.
03:16:19 <Bike> or explain.
03:16:48 <shachaf> I think something like "don't worry, it's normal to get confused when shachaf says something" is a sort of friendly way of making fun of me... But maybe I'm the one who doesn't comprehend!
03:16:55 <zzo38> There is modal logic, too.
03:21:38 <kmc> people
03:21:49 <kmc> can't live with 'em, can't dismantle their bodies for trace amounts of iron to make paperclips
03:22:28 <Bike> shame imo
03:22:41 <Fiora> differently-shaped-and-sized bags of mostly oxygen?
03:23:00 <Sgeo> People are up in arms about Dilbert
03:23:03 <kmc> mostly oxygen? I guess so, since we're mostly water
03:23:06 <Sgeo> The RSS feed no longer displays the comic
03:23:12 * Bike considers referring to cars as "bags of mostly steel"
03:23:16 <kmc> `addquote <Sgeo> People are up in arms about Dilbert
03:23:20 <HackEgo> 1062) <Sgeo> People are up in arms about Dilbert
03:23:21 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composition_of_the_human_body
03:23:27 <kmc> http://pied.nu/banned/the_Dilbert_Hole/
03:23:32 <Sgeo> http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-06-25/
03:23:32 <kmc> uh nsfw i guess
03:23:33 <Fiora> we're apparentlyabout 65% oxygen by mass?
03:23:39 <kmc> cool
03:23:46 <Bike> atomically, i assume?
03:23:56 <Fiora> yeah
03:24:12 <Bike> also that makes me think of Guess Which Anime, >_>
03:24:14 <Fiora> huh. women have less water/oxygen than men
03:24:25 <kmc> so THAT'S how you can tell
03:24:37 <Bike> i have oxydar, man
03:24:50 <kmc> does this mean that a really thourough SRS involves oxygen supplements too
03:25:01 <Fiora> I... I'd guess it's just the difference in fat %
03:25:10 <kmc> that makes sense
03:25:14 <Fiora> and probably not anything else really
03:25:29 <shachaf> I,I %
03:25:38 <kmc> is there a compose combo for that
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03:25:58 <kmc> oh that's fullwidth %
03:26:00 <shachaf> yes
03:26:00 <kmc> so p. not
03:26:04 <shachaf> i just switch to japanese mode for fullwidth characters
03:26:13 <kmc> M-x weeaboo
03:26:27 <Bike> fullwidth characters are my waifu
03:26:32 <kmc>
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03:26:39 <Bike> :o
03:26:42 <ion> > 0/000
03:26:42 <Fiora> I thought your waifu was like. some strange fungus
03:26:43 <lambdabot> NaN
03:26:45 <Bike> is that a halfwidth thousandth
03:26:45 <shachaf> キガン
03:26:57 <shachaf> メカィステル
03:26:59 <shachaf> help
03:27:03 <Bike> Fiora: LOVE KNOWS NO NUMBERS! Except if it's the euler-mascheroni constant which is also my waifu
03:27:21 <kmc> the first one is my name?
03:27:27 <kmc> and the second iS?
03:27:29 <shachaf> ideally they're both your name
03:27:33 <kmc> oh i see
03:27:34 <Bike> or the feigenbaum constants. either/or
03:27:53 <kmc> Kigan Meka~isuteru
03:28:17 <Bike> that's p. kawaii
03:28:22 <kmc> lexande has official arabic and cyrillic and chinese spellings of his name
03:28:28 <kmc> because various border officials asked for it
03:29:09 <Fiora> Bike: though apparently by #mm rules a waifu is something assigned to you by others
03:29:19 <Bike> yea
03:29:22 <shachaf> what's #mm
03:29:24 <shachaf> what's a waifu
03:29:26 <Bike> luckily i can just say stupid shit and nobody objeccts
03:29:31 <shachaf> how am i the incomprehensible one hth
03:29:33 <Bike> Fiora: (don't tell him what #mm is)
03:29:43 <Bike> kmc: nice.
03:29:53 <Bike> more public figures should have official transliterations
03:30:07 <shachaf> лександе
03:30:09 <shachaf> aлександеr
03:30:20 <Fiora> um, okay I won't
03:30:25 <shachaf> help :'(
03:30:39 <kmc> i don't think lexande is a public figure
03:30:44 <kmc> also i should convince him to come back to this channel
03:30:50 <Bike> confession: i forget who lexande is?
03:30:57 <Bike> Alexander Rapp
03:31:00 <Bike> good name
03:31:00 <kmc> friend of mine since long time ago
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03:31:07 <kmc> hi∼
03:31:07 <shachaf> hexande
03:31:12 <Bike> kmc you wizard
03:31:18 <shachaf> lexande is the wizard here
03:31:32 <Bike> lexande: how do you spell 'lexande' in ge'ez
03:31:33 <shachaf> wizards' noses tingle when you talk about them
03:32:17 <kmc> is that so
03:32:30 <lexande> how is kmc a wizard?
03:32:44 <shachaf> For summoning you, I think.
03:32:54 <kmc> what if lexande has summoning sickness
03:33:06 <shachaf> Then you're not a very good wizard, clearly.
03:33:11 <kmc> :(
03:33:16 <kmc> i don't think that's how it works
03:33:17 <Bike> kmc's a great wizard, imo.
03:33:22 <kmc> zzo38 would know
03:33:25 <Bike> elliott: back me up on this.
03:33:58 <shachaf> oh this is a magic: the gathering thing
03:34:12 <lexande> anyway the transliterations of my name into cyrillic and arabic were chosen for me by russian and sudanese customs/immigration officials respectively
03:34:27 <Bike> you travel a lot?
03:34:46 <kmc> in b4 http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~arapp/map.html http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~arapp/citiesvisited.html
03:35:08 <Sgeo> http://www.reddit.com/r/crypto/comments/1h1ru6/assuming_certificate_authorities_are_untrusted/caqc0lc
03:35:20 <lexande> thkmc
03:35:23 <Bike> That's pretty travelly.
03:37:15 <lexande> there tend to be pretty canonical transliterations of "Alexander" into most languages
03:37:29 <Bike> mm, it's super old, i guess.
03:37:32 <lexande> thanks to a certain ambitious macedonian
03:37:32 <kmc> iskandar al-akbar
03:37:33 <Bike> Also that one guy.
03:37:41 <lexande> i don't like the chinese one though
03:37:51 <lexande> because who ever heard of a four-character first name in chinese
03:38:10 <Bike> I've heard of almost no first names in Chinese, admittedly
03:38:34 <Bike> clearly they should have gone for a semantic translation, i bet "defender of man" is shorter
03:40:09 <lexande> the characters are something like, asia history mountain large
03:40:32 <mnoqy> thats a pretty good name
03:41:32 <lexande> yàlìshāndà
03:41:50 <lexande> 亚历山大
03:42:03 <shachaf> mnoqy is p. g. name
03:42:38 <lexande> but i figure i can get by with the last two, which also makes it a lot easier to write
03:44:35 <lexande> but i think i'm stuck with the surname 拉普 since i found a people's daily article referring to my father with that surname
03:46:50 <lexande> as for ge'ez, uh probably ለከሰነደረ or ለከሰነደ
03:48:51 <Bike> sweet
03:57:58 <zzo38> I have put my own name into Japanese by translating "Aaron" normally but translating "Black" by the meaning instead.
03:58:43 <zzo38> (I have been told that probably the more proper meaning to use for translation is "blacksmith", but I just used "black" instead.)
03:58:50 <Fiora> アーロンlike that?
03:59:00 <zzo38> Fiora: Yes, like that.
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05:06:12 <shachaf> someone transliterate my name to japanese please
05:06:35 <copumpkin> シャハフ
05:07:14 <copumpkin> or シャチャフ but I don't think that would get pronounced right
05:16:13 <lexande> 共同カボチャ
05:17:26 <coppro> zzo38: is this you http://www.aaronblack.com/
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05:36:14 <Taneb> Hi
05:36:24 <Taneb> Why am I awake
05:36:59 <shachaf> @time Taneb
05:37:00 <lambdabot> Local time for Taneb is Wed Jun 26 06:36:59
05:37:11 <shachaf> have you slept yet
05:39:23 <Taneb> Yes
05:59:16 <zzo38> coppro: No
05:59:24 <zzo38> There are a few other people with the same name too
05:59:36 <zzo38> (Even if you look in Wikipedia you will see it)
06:00:39 <zzo38> Should there be a rule in Pokemon game that if if you use the attack to switch the item with an opponent, and one of them has some mail, that it should display the contents of the mail to the other player before the attack fails?
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07:05:46 <zzo38> If the probability of some event is 200%, and then after that probability is calculated you will toss a coin, and if it comes up heads then you will cancel it, then does that make the event certain?
07:06:14 <shachaf> What is a probability of 200%?
07:06:47 <zzo38> Twice as much as a probability of 100%, of course.
07:07:08 <shachaf> What does that mean?
07:08:16 <zzo38> That is what it means!
07:08:43 <zzo38> Isn't it?
07:09:00 <Bike> these are new and strange probability axioms, zzo.
07:09:52 <zzo38> They are new? I thought they are the same as the other one except that I wrote "200%" and so on.
07:11:42 <Bike> you can't have events with p > 1 under kolmogorov axioms.
07:12:03 <zzo38> Perhaps I didn't explain very well. This might be better: There is a device that has a 200% chance of functioning if it is activated. You will toss a fair coin, and if it comes up tails you will activate the device and if it is heads then you won't activate it. From these premises, is it certain that the device will function?
07:12:33 <Bike> seriously, i just see "200%" and stop reading, what does that mean.
07:14:00 <zzo38> Can you explain what a probability of something means in general rather than in specific?
07:16:33 <Bike> ok, well, the probability axioms go like this.
07:17:15 <Bike> first you have a set called the "sample space", which is stuff that can happen. you define a sigma-algebra on that, the "events", subsets of the sample space. and you have a probability measure : event -> [0,1]
07:18:36 <Bike> the first axiom is that the probability measure is always positive (implied by my type signature but w/e). the second is that P(the whole sample space) = 1. the third is that P(countable union of events) = sum P(each event in the union)
07:19:29 <Bike> this implies for instance that A subset B -> P(A) <= P(B), and along with the second axiom this makes "200% probability" incoherent.
07:19:31 <mnoqy> disjoint union right
07:19:35 <Bike> so, if you mean something else, you should explain that.
07:19:39 <Bike> disjoint union, yeah.
07:20:06 <zzo38> Yes, I can see how, but what you omit the first axiom and type signature?
07:20:53 <zzo38> Anyways, I think the first axiom is wrong even in ordinary probabilities because it could be zero which doesn't count as a positive number.
07:21:40 <mnoqy> it's "nonnegative", yes
07:22:04 <mnoqy> or uh
07:22:11 <mnoqy> yeah
07:22:14 <zzo38> Then you should write that, if that is what you mean!
07:22:21 <mnoqy> i didn't write it!! bike did!!
07:22:33 <zzo38> I don't mean you personally.
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08:25:36 <kmc> status: eating cheetos out of a bowl using chopsticks
08:27:44 <zzo38> Do you do that so you don't get dirty?
08:28:20 <kmc> yes
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15:35:46 <coppro> pikhq_: you just won, congrats
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16:46:30 <coppro> pikhq_: when are you getting married? :P
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17:30:23 <Bike> i don't know why i did the axiom thing. that was dumb and sucked. fyi.
17:31:26 <elliott> what did you do
17:33:23 <Bike> texpocalypse
17:33:50 <elliott> are you talking about the axiom CAS, or...
17:34:35 <Bike> no i just responded to zzo with quotation instead of asking him what the heck he meatn
17:34:59 <elliott> oh that thing.
17:35:30 <Bike> The Thing
17:37:12 <zzo38> It doesn't necessarily imply that the individual events are not more than one if you are using divergent series, though, I think.
17:37:45 <zzo38> (If you do it so that some collections cannot be separated from others)
17:39:36 <zzo38> Also, if you make up the probability of a random number 0 to 1, the total probability will still be 1 even though all of the individual number being exactly is 0, so it still doesn't work.
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17:57:27 <Bike> "Each of the linear spaces l_2, c_0, c, m, and R^\infty (in that order) is a proper subspace of the next one" well i think i have a new record for shitty math identifiers
18:03:52 <zzo38> If you want to make up a Famicom cartridge with expansion audio, I think that other than the standard chips included in NROM cartridges, only a AY-3-8910 is added; it will work if you connect it to the PPU address bus. You can even get bank switching if you do this, without needing any other logic for bank switching.
18:04:59 <zzo38> (However, you will not be able to change the music or the bank during rendering.)
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18:34:31 <itsy> hi
18:34:42 <elliott> hi
18:34:48 <itsy> hi elliott :-)
18:39:58 * itsy considers writing a worm to seek out lost files... Stuff that's disappeared from the net, but must be on someone's computer somewhere.
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18:50:27 <zzo38> If you write a report about what files you are looking for, that could also help a bit.
18:55:41 <kmc> big US Supreme Court rulings today in favor of gay marriage
18:57:10 -!- Taneb has joined.
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19:07:24 <Bike> also the texas abortion bill died, woo.
19:07:41 <itsy> Does anyone here use an FTP search engine? Which one?
19:08:16 <kmc> yeah, after a brief attempt to save it by brazen lying in front of hundreds of thousands of people
19:08:53 <AnotherTest> itsy: What exactly are you looking for
19:09:04 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined.
19:09:26 <Bike> we have procedures, kmc. making someone stand and talk for 13 hours and then stopping time is perfectly reasonable
19:10:45 <itsy> AnotherTest: some old Core War stuff which was mentioned on Usenet about 20 years ago!
19:11:04 <Bike> geez. good luck with that.
19:11:41 <AnotherTest> itsy: have you checked the usenet archives?
19:12:01 <AnotherTest> or do you have the message, just not the files
19:12:33 <itsy> AnotherTest: I've just got the messages, which contain an ftp link (now broken).
19:12:44 <Bike> btw new band name: Intrinsically Rhythmogenic Modules
19:13:04 <itsy> By the way, is there a way to download an entire Usenet group? All messages dating back 20+ years? :-)
19:13:20 <AnotherTest> probably
19:13:28 <AnotherTest> aren't they all on google?
19:13:33 <AnotherTest> or some of them
19:14:27 <AnotherTest> itsy: what's the FTP link?
19:14:35 <itsy> They're on Google. But I want them here :-)
19:14:53 <AnotherTest> well, write a script to download stuff from google
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19:16:34 <AnotherTest> itsy: so, what's the link?
19:17:04 <itsy> AnotherTest: one is ftp:soda.berkeley.edu/pub/corewar/ incoming/optimapc.exe
19:19:34 <AnotherTest> http://web.archive.org/web/19980110070358/http://ftp.csua.berkeley.edu/
19:19:42 <AnotherTest> might get you somewhere
19:19:55 <AnotherTest> you might need to pick a later date though
19:20:12 <AnotherTest> (not sure what time this is from)
19:20:47 <AnotherTest> hm, doesn't seem to be saved anyway :(
19:21:40 <Bike> http://www.pnas.org/content/110/26/10465.full lol.
19:22:15 <AnotherTest> itsy: what about contacting them?
19:22:24 -!- itsy has left.
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19:23:23 <itsy> Tried contacting first :-) No luck. I didn't realise wayback archived ftp.
19:23:32 <AnotherTest> they don't
19:23:44 <AnotherTest> that's the web archive of their own ftp :)
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20:13:53 <oerjan> *sigh* turns out screen ruins the use of the pgup/pgdn keys on my numpad (turning them into 9 and 3 keys regardless of my laptop's general setting), which are of course the most sanely placed versions on this keyboard.
20:15:00 <oerjan> (that's screen on debian started remotely via putty on windows, fwiw)
20:15:28 <shachaf> oerjan: try tmux hth
20:17:57 <oerjan> ooh that's even installed
20:18:48 <elliott> try dtachhth
20:18:51 <elliott> s/dtach/dtach /
20:19:02 <Bike> dtach is nice
20:19:23 <coppro> oerjan: I stopped at "ruins" since that statement is always true
20:19:49 <oerjan> dtach is _not_ installed yet though...
20:20:05 <oerjan> coppro: OKAY
20:20:45 <elliott> dtach is great because it doesn't do anything.
20:20:50 <elliott> I know whatever terminal problem I have it's not dtach's fault.
20:21:00 <elliott> oerjan: btw, that sounds like a putty misconfiguration
20:21:04 <elliott> check you don't have "nethack mode" or whatever on
20:21:11 <elliott> or maybe I'm misremembering
20:21:24 <Lumpio-> I... I don't think screen even knows about your numpads and whatnot
20:21:45 <oerjan> elliott: it's set at "Normal" also pgdn/pgup works fine if _not_ using screen.
20:21:48 <Lumpio-> Probably something wrong with your terminal emulator.
20:22:16 <oerjan> Lumpio-: screen always emulates vt100, afaiu
20:22:49 <Lumpio-> Well I don't see any difference with pageup/down between screen and not screen
20:22:50 <coppro> oerjan: you can change a config setting to make it poorly emulate something else
20:22:52 <oerjan> and TERM=xterm outside it...
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20:23:02 <Lumpio-> (Checked via cat|xxd)
20:23:03 <coppro> instead of poorly emulating vt100
20:23:35 <oerjan> Lumpio-: btw the _other_ pgup/pgdn keys on top of the keyboard which are hard to reach, work fine.
20:24:04 <Lumpio-> yes I tried both actual pagedown and numpad pagedown
20:24:08 <Lumpio-> No difference whatsoever on my setup.
20:24:19 <shachaf> oerjan: screen's unicode support is broken hth
20:24:22 <shachaf> so you should use tmux
20:24:44 <oerjan> shachaf: OKAY (i did use the -U option fwiw)
20:24:53 <shachaf> oerjan: still broken hth
20:25:08 <shachaf> oerjan: (For 4-byte sequences, i.e. anything not in the BMP.)
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20:46:00 <itsy> "Dear xxxx, I was just wondering if you still have a copy of xxxx.zip which you uploaded 22 years ago? Thanks" <- Worth a try :-) Luckily I found a current email address.
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20:58:49 <itsy> Does anyone know what the first 2 dimensional programming language was?
20:59:13 <Bike> not befunge?
20:59:31 <Taneb> I seem to recall one before befunge
20:59:44 <Taneb> Biota!
20:59:48 <Taneb> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Biota
20:59:51 <Bike> oh, yeah.
21:02:50 <itsy> Thanks, that was the one I was looking for. There were a couple of other before Befunge too.
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21:24:42 <bresilsalumbizim> hey!!
21:24:53 <oerjan> turns out there was a putty option too
21:25:05 <elliott> `relcome bresilsalumbizim
21:25:08 <oerjan> anyway, trying tmux
21:25:09 <HackEgo> bresilsalumbizim: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
21:25:43 <bresilsalumbizim> hey!! what's up
21:25:59 <Bike> everything at once
21:26:13 <bresilsalumbizim> like what
21:26:19 <Bike> befunge
21:26:34 <bresilsalumbizim> hahaha ok
21:27:35 <oerjan> although admittedly it would also be nice if the wireless were stable enough that putty didn't disconnect all the time.
21:27:47 <Bike> kmc: more on that thing i linked you a billion years ago: http://storify.com/camp2013/learning-learning-learning "Led a great session on investigation for #ttcCamp13 this morning at this rate the participants will have brought down a government by Friday"
21:28:02 <Lumpio-> oerjan: Get mosh
21:28:29 <Lumpio-> Has some intelligence for laggy connections + most importantly survives disconnects
21:29:00 <bresilsalumbizim> what the fuck is this????
21:29:16 <oerjan> Lumpio-: i'm on windows 8 hth
21:29:21 <Bike> what the fuck is what
21:29:36 <bresilsalumbizim> every thing
21:29:44 <Lumpio-> oerjan: I think you can get LInux or something free from the internet
21:29:48 <Lumpio-> hold on I'll find a download link
21:29:54 <Bike> lots of things are fuck
21:29:55 <Bike> imo
21:30:42 <bresilsalumbizim> am using macintosh sooo fuck linux lol
21:31:31 <oerjan> Lumpio-: shut up hth
21:31:42 <Lumpio-> I don't even hth
21:32:05 <bresilsalumbizim> heheheh...
21:32:21 <Lumpio-> what's a hth
21:32:29 <oerjan> `? hth
21:32:31 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
21:32:50 <Lumpio-> dafuq
21:33:09 <bresilsalumbizim> where u gays coming from?
21:33:17 <oerjan> Lumpio-: i am recently quite convinced that i am sufficiently cursed that changing to linux will only bring me a different but equally obnoxious set of annoyances.
21:33:28 <oerjan> bresilsalumbizim: *guys hth
21:33:45 <oerjan> (although yes, there are _some_ gays here too.)
21:34:02 <bresilsalumbizim> hmmm...i will love to see the
21:34:28 <Lumpio-> i am from a computer
21:34:38 <Lumpio-> halp
21:34:44 <Bike> i am to a computer.
21:35:02 <bresilsalumbizim> and how can i help?
21:35:36 <Lumpio-> be computer
21:36:02 <bresilsalumbizim> hehehe nop am a parson not a computer
21:36:29 <oerjan> i don't think we get many parsons here
21:36:53 <bresilsalumbizim> then u have one.
21:37:54 <Lumpio-> I dunno about parsons but I could probably hook you up with some parsley
21:37:56 <Lumpio-> http://i.imgur.com/ZFfRqsz.jpg
21:39:00 -!- nooodl has left ("Leaving").
21:39:24 <bresilsalumbizim> and what am i going to use it for? u punk ass
21:40:04 <oerjan> you could spread it on food hth
21:40:29 <Lumpio-> Maybe mix it up with some lard
21:40:32 <Lumpio-> In a bowl
21:40:43 <oerjan> people do that?
21:40:48 <bresilsalumbizim> i dont need that shiit
21:41:03 <oerjan> bresilsalumbizim: hey eat up your greens
21:41:35 <elliott> oerjan: you should op kmc so he can ban this guy.
21:41:59 <Bike> oerjan: you should op elliott so he can op kmc so he can ban this guy
21:42:04 <elliott> also acceptable
21:42:06 <oerjan> elliott: what, already?
21:42:17 <oerjan> Bike: sounds like a plan.
21:42:29 <elliott> oerjan: well have you noticed he's joined the channel and insulted people a lot and not said anything on-topic, hth.
21:42:58 <bresilsalumbizim> why dont u come and eat it with me?
21:43:01 <oerjan> elliott: well i guess technically you are correct, as always
21:43:08 <bresilsalumbizim> it's just boring here
21:43:08 <oerjan> (except with some maths)
21:44:16 <oerjan> bresilsalumbizim: are you really from burundi
21:44:27 <bresilsalumbizim> yes i am
21:44:31 <bresilsalumbizim> why?
21:44:42 <oerjan> not many from africa here
21:44:54 <bresilsalumbizim> ooh!! ok that's why
21:44:58 <Bike> we have a south african don't we
21:45:07 <elliott> hiato
21:45:14 <oerjan> yes, but he's not here very often
21:46:13 <oerjan> i think he passed by a couple weeks ago
21:46:23 <bresilsalumbizim> so where you guys from?
21:46:30 <itsy> hexham
21:46:38 <oerjan> mostly europe and north america
21:46:56 <bresilsalumbizim> oh!! that's cool..
21:47:27 <elliott> oerjan: I think you mean mostly Helsinki and Hexham
21:47:32 <oerjan> that too.
21:47:42 <Taneb> Hey, Hexham's in Europe
21:47:51 <Taneb> And I presume Helsinki is in North America
21:48:02 <elliott> um... I have bad news about Finland for you, Taneb.
21:48:14 <bresilsalumbizim> i dint know that ths app wound work so i just tryed
21:48:37 <itsy> Did helsinki.fi just move it's user pages?
21:50:24 <oerjan> well it is pretty well known that finland is close to russia, and far from japan
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22:00:33 <oerjan> elliott: see no need for bans hth
22:01:08 <elliott> oerjan: now about that semen_dickman guy in the logs...
22:02:39 <oerjan> nanana i cant hear you
22:02:58 <Bike> "US got NSA leaker Edward Snowden's middle name wrong, says Hong Kong"
22:03:18 <shachaf> oerjan: well finland is close to russia and russia is close to japan, so finland can't be that far off
22:03:24 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
22:03:46 <oerjan> shachaf: russia is not transitive hth
22:04:26 -!- Nisstyre has joined.
22:04:41 <shachaf> oerjan: what about the trans-siberian railway
22:04:44 <shachaf> sounds like transit to me
22:05:11 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure that doesn't go to japan though
22:05:34 <lexande> indeed
22:05:38 * lexande hilights on transit and trains
22:05:55 <Bike> wow you really are a kmcfrien
22:05:57 <oerjan> a trainspotter!
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22:08:50 <pikhq_> *Goodness* this DOMA strikedown makes things interesting/confusing.
22:09:17 <Bike> how so?
22:09:36 <pikhq_> It is now possible to be married on a federal level but not a state level.
22:09:55 <oerjan> ...it got turned upside down? :P
22:09:59 <pikhq_> Yes.
22:10:11 <Bike> gay marriage: the exact opposite of pot
22:10:28 <oerjan> sounds like a slogan
22:10:35 <Fiora> is marriage done on a federal level? I thought it was handled by states, and the law was about whether or not the federal government acknowledged it
22:10:40 <Bike> it's kinda funny they didn't touch section 2 even though it looks like the opposite of article iv of the constitution
22:10:41 <Fiora> and there's the whole full faith and credit thing (?)
22:11:03 <Bike> yeah, that.
22:11:16 <pikhq_> Fiora: In this case, the fed. would acknowledge marriage done in any state.
22:11:27 <pikhq_> But your state of residence might *not* acknowledge it.
22:11:41 <pikhq_> So, from a federal POV you are married.
22:11:46 <pikhq_> But not from your state's.
22:11:48 <Fiora> so like, if someone got married in california, some other state is legally allowed to not acknowledge it?
22:11:56 <pikhq_> By DOMA, yes.
22:11:57 <Bike> yeah, that's what section 2 does.
22:12:11 <Fiora> isn't that... a violation of article 4 section 1? @_@
22:12:17 <Bike> With... some oddities, like Oklahoma being forced to put an adoptive gay couple on a kid's birth certificate
22:12:25 <Bike> because yeah it's pretty blatantly unconstitutional
22:12:40 <Fiora> what's with the "marriage tourism" thing then, where people visit another state to get married, how does that work
22:13:21 <pikhq_> Fiora: People feel as though going through the "marriage" thing officializes the relationship.
22:13:58 <Bike> and it probably will once the stupid thing dies, but.
22:14:27 <Fiora> huh it says in some places that they just outright struck the law, but some people are saying only section 3...?
22:14:32 <pikhq_> Bike: I think they could sue for back taxes. :P
22:14:37 <pikhq_> Fiora: It was only section 3.
22:14:51 <pikhq_> Section 2 was simply not affected by this case.
22:14:58 <pikhq_> (it was literally not at issue ever)
22:15:23 <pikhq_> It'll probably get contested soon, what with being a *blatant* violation of full faith and credit.
22:15:37 <Bike> supremecourt.gov doesn't work at all w/o www :(
22:15:58 <Bike> anyway US v. windsor, right? http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-307_g2bh.pdf
22:16:08 <pikhq_> Yes.
22:16:18 <Fiora> wikipedia said "Section 2, which allows states to refuse to recognize same-sex marriages performed in states where such marriage is legal, was not at issue in the Windsor case but the entire Defense of Marriage Act was deemed unconstitutional" but I don't know
22:16:22 <Bike> if anyone wants to see it themselves (i already read a supreme court decision this month, that's enough)
22:16:31 <Bike> Fiora: i saw that too but it looked like a shitty edit.
22:16:34 <Fiora> yeah :<
22:16:34 <Bike> i mean, you know. wikipedia.
22:16:54 <Bike> Anyway the decision's there if you want to find out for real.
22:18:21 <pikhq_> It's vague.
22:18:32 <Bike> hooray.
22:18:37 <pikhq_> It says "Section 2 was not at issue". But it also says "DOMA is unconstitutional."
22:20:23 <Bike> maybe i should read it just to get infuriated at whatever scalia's dissent is (no)
22:23:15 <Bike> http://www.theonion.com/articles/scalia-thomas-roberts-alito-suddenly-realize-they,32972/
22:23:20 <elliott> hey can someone join #Sup3rSa1y4n, i hear from #freenode that it auto-klines you.
22:23:33 <elliott> note: I disclaim responsibility
22:24:54 <Bike> https://twitter.com/BryanJFischer/status/350011942242500609 considering following this guy.
22:24:56 <elliott> oh maybe not
22:25:48 <Fiora> natural marriage
22:26:08 <Fiora> no chemicals! all natural
22:26:12 <Bike> natural marriage more like anti-nazi 5ever marriage
22:28:23 <oerjan> oops out of free onions
22:29:49 <ion> Chemicals are so horrible. I found out they have added DHMO to our food.
22:31:44 <kmc> pikhq_: doesn't the full faith and credit clause say that Congress can regulate how full faith and credit is to be applied?
22:32:15 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
22:32:30 <kmc> "the legislature shall, by general laws, prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings, shall be proved, and the effect which judgments, obtained in one state, shall have in another."
22:32:45 <kmc> er that's a draft version, the final is "And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof."
22:32:48 <pikhq_> kmc: No.
22:33:25 <kmc> no?
22:34:16 -!- itsy has left.
22:34:22 <pikhq_> That states that Congress may regulate how the acts of other states shall be demonstrated.
22:34:38 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:34:42 <pikhq_> It does not give Congress any way to *prevent* the application.
22:35:37 <pikhq_> Which is to say, Congress may regulate marriage certificates. The forms themselves.
22:36:02 <kmc> this has been ruled in a previous court case?
22:37:05 <pikhq_> This was the basis on which interracial marriage was legalized.
22:37:39 <kmc> ok
22:38:10 <Bike> ? was there a DOMA analogue?
22:38:50 <TeruFSX> there was never an anti-interracial-marriage DOMA
22:39:09 <TeruFSX> i think interracial marriages were always recognized where they were legal
22:39:15 <elliott> whoa, I just realised who TeruFSX is.
22:41:09 <kmc> ?
22:42:24 <Bike> Oh man. The reason HK refused to extradite Snowden was because they got his middle name wrong (and one other thing, but)
22:42:31 <Bike> they = the US, I mean
22:42:42 <elliott> kmc: nomic
22:42:50 <kmc> oh
22:42:55 <oerjan> Bike: best excuse
22:42:58 <ion> bike: That’s hilarious.
22:43:15 <Bike> comments are good right here
22:43:35 <Bike> Someone in the US government was intentionally sabotagin the extradition attempt. The empire is imploding from the inside.
22:43:36 <Fiora> Bike: the sass in their refusal was the best thing
22:43:41 <Bike> inorite
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23:15:11 <ion> http://heh.fi/tmp/1007.png
23:19:07 -!- Zerker has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPad - Timeout (10 minutes)).
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23:40:46 <Sgeo> 2GB RAM. Running Eclipse and at least one other Java-based application from cygwin
23:40:57 <Sgeo> Ctrl-C-ing TOOK A MINUTE OR TWO
23:47:29 <pikhq_> Muahahahah
23:50:32 <Sgeo> How did I ever survive on 512 MB when I was younge?
23:50:34 <Sgeo> younger?
23:50:55 <kmc> software was simpler
23:51:11 <pikhq_> And designed with 512 MiB in mind.
23:53:51 <Fiora> it's kind of interesting to see how like, game memory usages seem to have stopped growing at around ~2GB for the past few years
23:53:59 <Sgeo> http://www.theonion.com/articles/register-number-one,32928/
23:54:03 <Fiora> because if they went beyond that they'd have to drop 32-bit support, I think
23:54:05 <Sgeo> A neutral character in a Kelly comic???
23:54:17 <kmc> when RAM is not as scarce, you can develop programs faster, make them less buggy and more secure, and more people can help
23:54:36 <kmc> seems a reasonable tradeoff for buying $15 more of RAM imo
23:55:05 <kmc> a lot of people cry "software bloat" but that's usually an arrogant, lazy non-explanation
23:56:17 <Fiora> I'm guessing with games a lot of it is taking advantage of the extra memory to store textures or the like, and keeping track of a really big world state
23:56:31 <Sgeo> Eclipse and Tomcat servlets are not games
23:57:10 <kmc> Sgeo: the only winning move is not to play
23:57:25 <kmc> maybe it's because a lot of games are cross-platform and the Xbox 360 specs have been the same since 2005
23:57:30 <kmc> it only has 512 MB of RAM (!)
23:57:45 <Fiora> I don't think I've played many games that are console ports recently
23:57:50 <Sgeo> Tried using NetBeans. At least got an IDE that lagged only at sensible times
23:57:54 <Fiora> well. like. I have but I've played them on consoles <.<
23:58:05 <Sgeo> Ctrl-C was still hell though
23:58:29 <Fiora> (the real reason we need lots of RAM though is so I can run ECM factoring on tswett's number)
23:58:38 <Bike> i think sixty seconds to end a program being hell is a bit overblown, although maybe i'm saying that because i'm looking at a picture of a kid with his skull ripped up.
23:59:21 <elliott> nine circles, Bike.
23:59:22 <pikhq_> The PS3 has similar amounts of RAM.
23:59:26 <pikhq_> The Wii has... less.
23:59:40 <Bike> elliott: huh what
23:59:51 <elliott> Bike: sixty seconds to end a program is just the first circle.
23:59:56 <Bike> oh right
23:59:58 <tswett> Fiora: here, I'll make it easier for you.
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