00:00:06 <Koen_> it assumes that we have already dealt with the fact that there is a king of france... which we haven't
00:02:21 <Koen_> it's kinda like having the equation 1/x = 3 is satisfied when x = 0 : it doesn't make sense
00:03:52 <oerjan> that's a lot of activity on the Deadfish page today...
00:04:42 <Koen_> well, "1/1 = 3" is obviously false, and "1/(1/3) = 3" is obviously true, but "1/0 = 3" simply doesn't make sense
00:13:01 <ion> shachaf: So, what *was* the channel with all the #haskell metadiscussion?
00:13:08 <ion> other than this now
00:13:53 <ion> <shachaf> Ah.
00:14:18 <shachaf> I assume it was johnw /msging byorgey.
00:14:33 <shachaf> It's one of those things he does. /msging people, I mean.
00:15:12 <ion> He should be careful, some people are allergic to MSG.
00:23:11 <kmc> shachaf: 17:22 < strcat> Option<~T>, Option<&T> etc. turn to a nullable ptr
00:23:46 <shachaf> Works for any enum, doesn't it?
00:24:03 <kmc> shachaf: you were asking if Option< Option<T> > was broken, but I don't think it is, because Option<T> is not a non-nullable pointer type
00:24:37 <shachaf> imo they should turn enum Foo { Red, Blue, SomethingElse<T> } into {0x0, 0x1, validPtr}
00:24:57 <shachaf> kmc: Ah, makes sense, I suppose.
00:25:16 <elliott> kmc: have you convinced them to make their syntax less wack yet
00:25:45 <shachaf> what's wack about their syntax
00:26:10 <kmc> shachaf: yeah a runtime check of /proc/sys/vm/mmap_min_addr
00:26:59 <kmc> elliott: it's not special cased by name, but by structure
00:27:20 <shachaf> kmc: you can just require the bottom page not to be used in rust programs
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00:27:29 <kmc> so types isomorphic to Option also get it
00:27:30 <kmc> shachaf: true
00:27:32 <shachaf> then you can go up to 4096-enums "good enough 4 me"
00:27:54 <kmc> fsvo "require", you can't enforce it when a C program calls a Rust library
00:28:02 <kmc> or even the other way round really
00:28:59 <shachaf> Hmm, aren't pointer values in the bottom page often considered invalid in C programs for some other reason?
00:30:13 <kmc> many C programs are designed this way
00:30:30 <kmc> I don't know what the spec says, other than that the numeric literal "0" gives you a NULL pointer whose use in various ways is UB
00:30:40 <kmc> it might not even be represented the same way as an integer zero, of course
00:31:19 <Fiora> if( !x ) has to be the same as if( x == NULL ), right?
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00:32:31 <Fiora> I thought NULL had to compare as false...
00:32:42 <Fiora> like, NULL isn't necessarily 0, but it has to compare equal to 0
00:32:58 <shachaf> (My "No?" was addressed to katla, not Fiora.)
00:33:01 <kmc> "not zero but another number of the same name"
00:33:33 <Fiora> I thought I was responding to katla
00:33:43 <kmc> secretly, everyone was responding to Bike
00:33:58 <shachaf> we're getting a serious Bike infestation in here
00:34:06 <shachaf> they're doubling every few minutes
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00:34:18 <Bike> Only the one true Bike shall stand
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00:42:05 <ion> Unicode seems to have “DIRECT CURRENT SYMBOL FORM TWO” and no other forms. Theother one is called “AC CURRENT” instead of, say, “ALTERNATING CURRENT SYMBOL”.
00:43:01 <kmc> http://www.unicode.org/notes/tn27/
00:44:22 <Bike> that doesn't include it oh no
00:44:45 <Bike> i love how many of them are bad transliterations of non-IE languages
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00:46:16 <Bike> which reminds me, is anyone here as annoyed as me (level: "mildly chuffed") that news organizations can never agree on how to transliterate Arabic or Persian or anything
00:46:36 <shachaf> Well, that's hardly unique to news organizations.
00:46:51 <Bike> I keep seeing Morsy and thinking Morrissey
00:47:11 <Phantom__Hoover> is it as bad as irish "man just throw some i's in there, also some h's while we're at it" orthography
00:47:27 <Bike> don't they at least usually agree on how many i's to throw in
00:47:56 <shachaf> kmc knows what happens when you throw too many 'i's into one letter
00:47:57 <Phantom__Hoover> no (i guess i'm talking about, like, broader goidelic names here)
00:49:29 <Bike> i admit i know shit all about irish
00:50:07 <Bike> anyway the fact that news organizations do it is important because: they're the ones i'm immediately annoyed at
00:50:31 <Phantom__Hoover> according to wp there was also a spelling reform which included such highlights as beirbhiughadh => beiriú
00:51:10 <Phantom__Hoover> so like i can only assume the bh, gh and dh were just there to fuck with people
00:52:11 <Bike> i think the worst individual transliteration cases i can think of though are the name of the mongolian conqueror, and the name of the former president of Libya
00:53:32 <ion> Did you mean: bear hug edh, beiried, bear birth, beer buddha
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00:54:52 <Bike> sure, if you want to use the old fashioned transliteration
00:54:55 <kmc> Bike: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5365283/regular-expression-to-search-for-gadaffi
00:54:57 <Bike> i've actually seen dschinghis in print
00:55:17 <Bike> yeah that's good
00:55:41 <Bike> My history textbook called him Chinggis. Maybe we could just go with Temujin
00:56:11 <Fiora> "dschinghis" seems very weird too
00:56:23 <Fiora> kmc: our professor actually introduced regular expressions to us with that one
00:56:26 <Fiora> literally not kidding XD
00:56:29 <Bike> Genghis Khan's name is spelled in variety of ways in different languages such as English Chinghiz, Chinghis, and Chingiz, Chinese: 成吉思汗; pinyin: Chéngjísī Hán, Turkic: Cengiz Han, Çingiz Xan, Çingiz Han, Chingizxon, Çıñğız Xan, Chengez Khan, Chinggis Khan, Chinggis Xaan, Chingis Khan, Jenghis Khan, Chinggis Qan, Djingis Kahn, Russian: Чингисхан (Čingiskhan) or Чингиз-хан (Čingiz-khan), etc
00:56:44 <kmc> Fiora: haha
00:57:00 <Fiora> or maybe it was something similar
00:57:19 <elliott> doesn't genghis khan's wikipedia article open with like ten names
00:57:24 <Bike> Fiora: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschingis_Khan it seems to be pretty standard in German
00:57:41 <Bike> Djengis in Afrikaans, oh man, i need to look through these now.
00:57:51 <Fiora> I guess it feels like it's extra consonants?
00:57:59 <ion> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dschinghis_Khan
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00:58:25 <Bike> Xenxis, in... I don't know this language
00:58:45 <kmc> language x
00:58:58 <Bike> one of the billion languages of spain, right
00:59:03 <kmc> misspelt austrian
00:59:19 <kmc> didn't kill enough people
00:59:19 <Bike> it's not really descriptive of the pronunciation, I think
00:59:23 <Bike> it's more of a "ch" sound at the start
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00:59:36 <Bike> and i ean it's a transliteration from what, the 18th century? it's gotta be shit
00:59:42 <Fiora> I think people like to pronounce "ge" like in... "get"?
00:59:50 <Fiora> but it's more like "tsingis"
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01:11:27 <Bike> what the fuck is this
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01:11:32 <Bike> is this machine generated
01:12:00 <kmc> more like zalgokuil
01:12:07 <Bike> it sounds like a barcelonian failing to pronounce Dungan
01:12:20 <nooodl> ps give me something else to translate into ithkuil
01:12:25 <nooodl> it was actually a nice adventure
01:12:27 <Bike> lord's prayer?
01:12:31 <nooodl> what no thatd take a month
01:12:47 <nooodl> like, a 3-4 word sentence kinda thing, something cute
01:13:09 <Bike> Schleicher's fable?
01:13:12 <elliott> nooodl: how about "enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity"
01:13:23 <nooodl> ps verbs have cases in ithkuil but the online guide doesn't tell you how to use them...
01:13:36 <elliott> you have to pronounce it and upload it though!!
01:13:50 <nooodl> my ithkuil pronunciation is probably "subpar"
01:14:02 <Bike> Efter foondin the Mongol Empire an being proclaimed "Genghis Khan", he startit the Mongol invasions that woud ultimately result in the conquest o maist o Eurasie.
01:14:42 <Bike> Mony o these invasions also resultit in lairge-scale slaughter o the local populations an ar no viewed positively in these parts o the warld today.
01:14:46 <elliott> i mean, you could literally run a simple filter over the english wikipedia to get the same results
01:15:16 <Bike> yeah if they want to have their own language more power to 'em
01:15:21 <Bike> i still think it's funny to see
01:15:21 <elliott> http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer
01:15:33 <Phantom__Hoover> (ulster scots is even more cultural etc., in that it's basically the result of a game of linguistic one-upmanship with irish)
01:16:03 <Bike> wait, is ulster scots what they pretend to speak in northern ireland, or
01:16:38 <elliott> http://sco.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Main_Page#OUTRAGED oh my god
01:16:44 <nooodl> The Ithkuil equivalent to a subordinate clause is called a "case-frame."
01:16:45 <Phantom__Hoover> except that being in ulster there's a bunch of sectarian politics involved
01:16:48 <Bike> oh, they're what you call people americans call "Scots-Irish"
01:16:51 <Bike> your name is way better than ours
01:17:10 <Bike> elliott: what the hecks
01:17:14 <nooodl> A'v ne'er unnerstuid ootrage aboot Scots projects like this Wikipedia.
01:17:20 <Bike> i don't know what "jaxie" is
01:17:34 <elliott> Is this the real Scots language or are you just putting a sort of traditional highlander accent on and spelling words as they sound...I mean is there a dictionary or something which can prove these words are real?
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01:18:10 <Bike> COTTISH PEOPLE SPEAK ENGLISH, NOT THIS SHIT PICTURED ON THIS SITE!!! wrote some random guy from Texas
01:18:50 <elliott> i like the quoting of the "UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS"
01:18:57 <elliott> scots wikipedia: highly serious
01:18:58 <nooodl> there's a wikipedia in west-vlaams: http://vls.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voorblad
01:19:14 <Bike> because he talks funny?
01:19:23 <Bike> (i don't know if he talks funny)
01:19:38 <Phantom__Hoover> because he writes his characters with these egregious scottish accents
01:19:50 <elliott> "THE PROBLEM IS THAT THIS IS JUST FRACTURED ENGLISH, WITH WORDS BEING WRITTEN AS THEY SOUND TO SOME PEOPLE, AND IS NOT AN ACTUAL LANGUAGE!"
01:19:50 <Bike> «Ulster Scots, the local dialect of Lowland Scots, which has, since the 1980s, also been called 'Ullans', a portmanteau neologism popularised by the physician, amateur historian and politician Dr Ian Adamson,[15] merging Ulster and Lallans - the Scots for Lowlands[16] - but also an acronym for "Ulster-Scots language in literature and native speech"» awesome
01:19:58 <elliott> unfortuantely the scots have yet to realise this
01:20:05 <oerjan> "No, we get it. Feel free to read other parts of the internet that are solely in English. There's quite a lot of it. Come back when you've finished that off, and we'll talk."
01:20:25 <Phantom__Hoover> i mean it's like writing a book set in kent and having everyone talking about how they're getting in the caah
01:20:31 <nooodl> and also in limburgs... http://li.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veurblaad
01:20:41 <nooodl> why are there multiple dutch dialect wikipedias
01:20:55 <elliott> there's wikipedias for the two norwegian languages too
01:21:14 <Bike> haha drawing a distinction
01:21:38 <Bike> also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written
01:21:50 <Bike> imo written language is too complicated *series of hand gestures
01:21:51 <elliott> iirc the nynorsk one is depressing
01:22:08 <nooodl> small wikipedias are the most depressing thing in the world
01:22:11 <Bike> «As a result of the competing influences of English and Scots, varieties of Ulster Scots can be described as 'more English' or 'more Scots'»
01:22:14 <elliott> it's trying really hard but there's just not enough care on the planet for a less-popular dialect of norwegian
01:22:35 <oerjan> elliott: last i checked, the nynorsk wikipedia even has some articles with subpages in the even more radical høgnorsk form
01:22:54 <oerjan> means "high norwegian" of course :P
01:23:09 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Høgnorsk seems like it's less radical?
01:23:19 <Bike> what about like... what do saami people speak
01:23:22 <Bike> i have no idea
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01:23:48 <oerjan> elliott: hm i meant radical in the sense of even further from what most people use
01:24:02 <oerjan> but i guess that is also extremely conservative
01:24:41 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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01:25:18 <Phantom__Hoover> Bike, have you reached the part where it was mostly made up to get a unionist alternative to irish's protected language status (n.b. my sources in this matter are not exactly dispassionate)
01:25:51 <oerjan> <Bike> also isn't bokmal and the other thing, like, written <-- of course. the current fashion for _speech_ is to use nearly unnormalized dialect.
01:25:55 <Bike> Phantom__Hoover: it's in the intro.
01:26:11 <Bike> it's recognized by the UK under the EU's language thing though, huh
01:26:20 <elliott> oerjan: when i come to trondheim you have to explain norway to me.
01:26:23 <nooodl> i vote finnish for cutest language
01:26:40 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: what: not found
01:26:44 <oerjan> Bike: there are three official saami languages in norway, although northern saami is far larger than the others.
01:26:51 <Bike> gosh that's a lot
01:27:07 <Bike> oh there's a word for spelling scots like that, kinda. eye dialect
01:27:17 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:This_is_the_cover_of_a_book_containing_the_Gospel_of_Luke_in_both_Ulster_Scots_and_the_1611_AV.png good filename
01:27:26 <oerjan> elliott: what do you mean, you think _i_ understand norway?
01:27:36 <elliott> oerjan: well I would hope so.
01:27:50 <nooodl> my favorite wikipedia filename is
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01:27:52 <nooodl> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Thing.png
01:28:17 <Bike> that is definitely a thing.
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01:29:28 <Bike> Thành Cát Tư Hãn
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01:31:45 <oerjan> jix: you have your own company now?
01:32:55 <Bike> "Contemporary Mongolians clearly prefer Chinggis over Genghis, not only because it reflects Mongolian pronounciation more closely, but also because it matches the Cyrillic version, Чингис хаан"
01:32:55 <oerjan> jix: your "index!" needs expansion hth
01:33:11 <Bike> "The article is inconsitent in Temüjin vs Temujin. Which is correct?" *flips table*
01:33:55 <Bike> wow there's a frickin mongolian imperial defender in this talk page
01:34:21 <Bike> My name is Serge and i'm citizen of Ukraine (Ukrainian Rus), one of the states in the modern global cossack society that is society of cossacks, free people of the Earth.
01:34:32 <elliott> I read that as ukrainian bus
01:35:08 <Bike> i think this person is saying kazakhs are cossacks
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01:38:06 <Bike> «For example, Peter Holquist, a specialist of the conflict in the Don region, concludes that decossackization did not constitute an "open-ended program of genocide" but rather was a "ruthless" and "radical attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups," which showed Soviet regime's "dedication to social engineering."» somebody help me understand this
01:39:47 <Fiora> so it was "not genocide" but "a ruthless attempt to eliminate undesirable social groups"
01:40:09 <Bike> you can't just say the same thing twice man
01:40:17 <Fiora> "it's not murder, it's just intentionally killing someone"
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01:45:39 <oerjan> as long as we have clarified that.
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02:12:21 <tswett> :| Something's getting misinterpreted somewhere.
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02:14:31 <tswett> Sgeo_: hey, join the Desert Warriors Clan!
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02:23:14 <Sgeo_> I don't even know what a condition code is
02:24:16 <Sgeo_> "A pretodianship is a position that can be held by a party member". Are all Agoran offices pretodianships? If not, can pretodianships also be held by nonmembers?
02:24:33 <Sgeo_> It's kind of clear what was intended, but not clear that your wording expresses it unambiguously
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02:32:39 <tswett> Sgeo_: think that should be fixed, along with the editing error in Article 2, before the party is created?
02:34:53 * Sgeo_ hasn't looked at the rest that closely
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03:37:17 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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04:51:57 <Bike> `WELCOME ALTRION
04:51:59 <HackEgo> ALTRION: WELCOME TO THE INTERNATIONAL HUB FOR ESOTERIC PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE DESIGN AND DEPLOYMENT! FOR MORE INFORMATION, CHECK OUT OUR WIKI: HTTP://ESOLANGS.ORG/WIKI/MAIN_PAGE. (FOR THE OTHER KIND OF ESOTERICA, TRY #ESOTERIC ON IRC.DAL.NET.)
04:53:34 <Bike> IT'S HOT HERE TOO BUT PROBABLY NOT AS HOT
04:55:33 <ALTRION> I'M SORRY MY ENGLISH IS NOT GOOD BUT NOT BAD
04:55:58 <Bike> You're quite understandable. Maybe you should use lowercase letters, though.
04:56:39 <zzo38> You should use both uppercase and lowercase letters.
04:58:10 <shachaf> my english is simultaneously good and bad
04:58:14 <zzo38> (Some computers don't have lowercase, but this makes it difficult to use the MODE command, and won't access most webpages, gopher, and other internet protocols; however, most modern computers do have lowercase.)
04:58:55 <ALTRION> I use lowercase latters, okay
04:59:16 <Bike> well, anyway, what's up
05:00:43 <Bike> a chatroom, yeah
05:01:28 <ALTRION> this name is esoteric, what is esoteric???
05:01:55 <Bike> check the link in the welcome message?
05:02:48 <ALTRION> add my facebook okay : aldri_017@yahoo.co.id
05:04:07 <shachaf> copumpkin: I don't get it.
05:04:22 <copumpkin> I said hth, you said what, so I said hth, hth
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05:05:52 <zzo38> ALTRION: I don't use the Facebook, OK?
05:08:24 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night).
05:09:19 <zzo38> Some of people in here are from other countries.
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05:40:08 <shachaf> I still don't get it, but whatever.
05:40:37 <copumpkin> there was nothing to get! I was referencing your hth stint for no reason whatsoever and being obnoxious about it
05:40:51 <shachaf> What does hth even have to do with me?
05:41:01 <copumpkin> you were using it all over the place for a while
05:41:40 * shachaf repeats earlier sentiment.
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06:25:50 <zzo38> I think the Turing sequent calculus I made up can be used for nondeterministic Turing machines too.
06:28:35 <zzo38> However it is also possible for there to be no rule (not even halting), in the one I made.
06:29:11 <zzo38> You win if it halts, lose if there is no rule, and draw if it doesn't halt. If it is nondeterministic, then the win/lose/draw outcome will not be predetermined.
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07:09:20 <zzo38> Whether any mathematicians find this useful, I don't know.
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08:14:31 <jix> no I don't have my own company
08:14:51 <jix> jixco.de => jix' code
08:15:07 <jix> (and I happen to be in germany so .de is the right tld anyway)
08:18:09 <zzo38> That is good, then.
08:28:28 <fizzie> "Jix, Inc." would have a nice ring to it.
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08:46:28 <kmc> today i ate at http://www.sunflowersf.com/ which has the best website
08:48:51 <fizzie> The other day I ate at http://www.kabuki.fi/kabuki.html whose website is also pretty good; last news is from 2009, and there's a prominent red-border notice about it being closed "Sunday, August 5th", except this year's August 5th is a Monday, suggesting that it's probably about last year.
08:49:03 <fizzie> It's a bit more "designy", however.
08:49:54 <shachaf> kmc: That's a good website.
08:50:19 <shachaf> It could be improved by including HTML menus.
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11:53:08 <HackEgo> neena: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
12:08:53 <Phantom_Hoover> the fact that the word 'sigmoid' means s-shaped despite the fact that neither form of the letter sigma is s-shaped
12:09:00 <neena> Hello. I am only lurking
12:11:09 <olsner> I guess they consider 's' a form of sigma
12:12:09 <olsner> but that's boring... I like the idea that someone wanted a proper fancy name for s-shaped and just had no clue what a sigma actually looks like
12:12:54 <ion> Final sigma: ς
12:13:00 <ion> (in Greek)
12:13:42 <ion> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sigma_uc_lc.svg
12:15:02 <olsner> looks like it says Eos
12:16:23 <fizzie> I once had a LaTeX document that used the symbol $\sigma_\varsigma$ for a thing. Then I talked about it in an email, and had to write σ_ς.
12:16:38 <fizzie> It was changed to something like a single uppercase latin letter, later on.
12:17:07 <elliott> fizzie: important: do you acknowledge the immense superiority of \varepsilon over \epsilon
12:20:44 <fizzie> I have somewhat similar feelings when it comes to \varphi over \phi, but that might be just personal preference, since the loopier \varphi is how I was taught to write it.
12:22:09 <fizzie> It's the proper Greek letter, instead of some silly "math symbol" phi.
12:23:07 <olsner> what's the difference between the var-prefixed and normal name?
12:23:52 <fizzie> The var-prefixed is presumably a "variant form" of some sort.
12:24:04 <fizzie> Like the "final sigma" for \varsigma, and the loopy phi for \varphi.
12:24:41 <elliott> oh, I thought it stood for "variable"
12:24:48 <olsner> varsigma varies depending on context or something?
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12:24:54 <elliott> like you were meant to use \varepsilon for variables but \epsilon for... constants?? functions??
12:25:26 <fizzie> I have just *assumed* the "variant" meaning of "var"; I'unno.
12:25:57 <fizzie> Also \varepsilon is the more rounded "flipped 3"-style epsilon, as opposed to \epsilon's "c and - overtyped" solution.
12:26:23 <nooodl> isn't \epsilon used for empty strings sometimes?
12:27:14 <fizzie> Yes, though I've seen \varepsilon as the empty string too.
12:27:24 <fizzie> (It might've not been a TeX-derived document at all.)
12:29:27 <Deewiant> http://www.w3.org/2003/entities/2007doc/#epsilon
12:29:30 <fizzie> Best ideas: Use final sigma and stigma for two different meanings -- ς and ϛ are *so different*.
12:30:45 <fizzie> (That's U+03C2 GREEK SMALL LETTER FINAL SIGMA and U+03DB GREEK SMALL LETTER STIGMA, I hope.)
12:30:48 <nooodl> Deewiant, yikes. that has them the other way around
12:31:03 <nooodl> same for phi and varphi
12:31:55 <nooodl> on a related note: i've never seen \vartheta (the swirly latex one) used anywhere
12:32:09 <nooodl> angles are usually just \theta, and honestly, what else do you call theta
12:32:17 <fizzie> I guess it's because the "default" for "them" is the regular Greek letter use, and the "variant" is the "mathy" one.
12:32:47 <fizzie> That's what I've always assumed, as I said, like, right after you joined.
12:33:15 <fizzie> Though "variant" is what Deewiant's link says, too, so I guess they've assumed so too.
12:33:38 <fizzie> And I remember seeing \vartheta somewhere, but I have no recollection what it was for.
12:36:40 <fizzie> Oh, right, of course -- the Jacobi theta function: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theta_function
12:37:23 <Phantom_Hoover> possibly handwritten, although god knows who'd write it that way
12:43:50 <fizzie> More than one people seem to be using ϑ for mean.
12:44:10 <fizzie> Or I guess as their go-to "I need a Greek letter and don't have an obvious choice" letter.
12:44:49 <Koen__> I write it kinda like that
12:45:01 <Koen__> except with a little extra bar on the left
12:45:14 <ion> The most secure data cryption program in the World http://kryptochef.net/indexh2e.htm
12:45:48 <fizzie> I think I remember KRYPTO.
12:48:50 <fizzie> The proof of 256 being "full bits" is impressive.
12:50:57 <fizzie> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html -- oh, from here.
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12:58:00 <fizzie> (The author takes part in the confersation few (hundred) screens down.)
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13:03:30 <fizzie> (I like the bit where he proves almost all existing hashing algorithms are broken, because they generate nonzero outputs for the empty input. His own, LBV5DG, of course isn't broken that way -- "it doesn't work with nothing, how should it.")
13:04:04 <fizzie> http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2006/06/the_doghouse_kr.html#c185757 is I think a direct link to that comment.
13:04:22 <fizzie> (These are some random commenter's English translations of his German postings from elsewhere.)
13:05:18 <ion> wat http://kryptochef.net/KRYPTOCHEF%20Newsletter%20eng.htm
13:09:11 <fizzie> Yes, I believe he has been badly wronged by the German government, or some such thing.
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13:11:11 <fizzie> "These data programs immediately recognize the password is wrong when it is wrong. How can the program before the actual data decryption. That says it all out on such programs."
13:11:49 <olsner> fungot: How can the program before the actual data decryption?
13:11:49 <fungot> olsner: the fnord concept stems from the use that the catholic church and most media. so the teacher says, " one made up for that
13:12:25 <fizzie> fungot: You make about as much sense as KRYPTOCHEF.
13:12:25 <fungot> fizzie: you must be a good idea, counting on that i have that was supoused to work,
13:13:08 <olsner> is it still horribly difficult to add fungot styles?
13:13:09 <fungot> olsner: away a sec. the siemens mobile toolkit thing has the api classes as a fnord is a diaresis?
13:13:39 <fizzie> I don't think it has been horribly difficult?
13:13:45 <fizzie> It's as difficult as it has been, however.
13:14:22 <fizzie> That means "involves, like, a dozen commands", assuming a suitably formatted dataset.
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13:33:05 <ion> :-D http://www.edepot.com/baseencryption.html
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13:36:22 <boily> ion: «As secure as OTP». yeah, right.
13:37:14 <fizzie> ion: Are you doing some sort of a crypto-kook tour or what?
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14:33:53 <boily> why are there still new ed versions?
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