←2013-07-06 2013-07-07 2013-07-08→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:16 <Bike> who the heck uses axes to cut down trees nowadays
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00:01:54 <fizzie> The game port IO port is just one byte; four bits for buttons (A1, A2, B1, B2), and four for the "has it timed out yet" bits for X/Y axes of joysticks A/B.
00:03:22 <zzo38> O, so that's how it works.
00:03:51 <shachaf> zzo38: Did you see that ion and I used your IRC server?
00:03:56 <zzo38> How does it know when to start though?
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00:04:25 <zzo38> shachaf: I haven't looked. What channels did you use? (If it isn't one of the permanent channels, it won't be logged anywhere that it was even in use.)
00:04:38 <shachaf> It was one of the permanent channels.
00:04:44 <shachaf> I don't remember which.
00:04:50 <zzo38> Well, I can look.
00:04:58 <shachaf> Perhaps +TEXNICARD?
00:05:25 <shachaf> If you haven't even seen it after all this time, it doesn't seem like a very good way to contact you.
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00:05:47 <zzo38> Yes I found it now.
00:05:53 <fizzie> zzo38: It resets (by discharging the capacitor) on write, I think, and then you wait how long it takes for the bit to go from 0 to 1.
00:06:32 <zzo38> shachaf: You can use the SUMMON command to make my computer make noise and then that is a better way to contact me.
00:06:54 <shachaf> Is that an IRC command?
00:07:00 <shachaf> My client doesn't support it.
00:07:01 <Sgeo_> shachaf, http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/elan.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/belker.htm
00:07:06 <fizzie> zzo38: Though there's a BIOS interrupt routine to do it, if you count that as "available to program".
00:07:15 <fizzie> shachaf: I'm sure it supports /QUOTE.
00:07:21 <shachaf> Sgeo_: ?
00:07:38 <shachaf> fizzie: Yes, but how am I to know about SUMMON? I'll forget it about by the time I want to contact zzo38 again.
00:07:57 <fizzie> shachaf: It's a STANDARD COMMAND, why would you FORGET.
00:07:59 <zzo38> shachaf: It is in the help file of the IRC server.
00:08:02 <shachaf> quote
00:08:36 <shachaf> fizzie: So why doesn't my IRC client support it?
00:08:37 <oerjan> shachaf: it's a fully standard command which only zzo38 implements, of course
00:08:38 <shachaf> checkmate
00:08:54 <shachaf> "The SUMMON command can be used to give users who are on a host running an IRC server a message asking them to please join IRC."
00:09:03 <shachaf> Are we sure this command wasn't added by zzo38?
00:09:38 <fizzie> It's a well-established command.
00:09:55 <shachaf> `pastelogs <zzo38>.*please
00:10:15 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_Relay_Chat_commands#SUMMON see
00:10:16 <shachaf> zzo38: What IRC server do you use?
00:10:18 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.5108
00:10:26 <zzo38> shachaf: A variant of ngIRCd.
00:11:06 <shachaf> What Gopher server do you use?
00:11:19 <zzo38> One I wrote myself.
00:11:40 <shachaf> Is the code available?
00:12:05 <zzo38> Yes, although it is written in BASIC so you will need a BASIC compiler in order to use it.
00:12:32 <elliott> oerjan: btw since you're a wiki admin now I can tell you to feature a language.
00:12:46 <oerjan> i was afraid of that.
00:12:46 <shachaf> zzo38: Why BASIC?
00:12:53 <shachaf> oerjan: Please feature Norwegian.
00:13:00 <oerjan> hm, i guess esme
00:13:33 <zzo38> shachaf: That is just what I used. If I rewrite it again today probably I use C, and make some other improvements too.
00:13:34 <elliott> oerjan: um esme isn't even on the candidates list.
00:13:39 <oerjan> typical.
00:13:47 <elliott> universe is cruel
00:14:00 <shachaf> oerjan: plz feature nynorsk hth
00:14:12 <shachaf> zzo38: What other servers do you run?
00:14:24 <oerjan> shachaf: eg trur ikkje det er nokon god idé.
00:14:55 <shachaf> Google translates that to: "I do not think there is any good idea."
00:15:01 <shachaf> Which seems correct, as these things go.
00:15:16 <fizzie> zzo38: If you count the BIOS joystick reading routine, you could say the precision on the PC is around 9 bits; it returns a 16-bit word, but the RBIL says "A 250kOhm joystick typically returns 0000h-01A0h".
00:15:18 <oerjan> factually correct, yet not translationary correct
00:15:24 <shachaf> (A correct statement, I mean, not a correct translation.)
00:15:27 <shachaf> help
00:15:30 <zzo38> shachaf: Apache HTTP server. I had Synchronet on at one time, but now I don't. However, I might put it back later, or a different telnet server. I also run a SMTP server I wrote myself, although it is usually inactive and nobody can connect.
00:15:42 <shachaf> oerjan: don't you mean translationarily correct
00:15:51 <oerjan> no.
00:16:00 <oerjan> or wait
00:16:02 <oerjan> yes.
00:16:07 <shachaf> zzo38: is the code for your smtp server available
00:16:15 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, although it is written in PHP.
00:16:28 <shachaf> oh
00:16:39 <shachaf> no thanks
00:18:17 <zzo38> Also, it just concatenates all the messages into one file called "mailbox.txt", including headers and everything, and it can only deliver to a single email address. Furthermore, it isn't meant to be running all the time; it is meant only for a single message to be received, and it won't accept multiple simultaneous connections. It will play a sound when a message arrives, though.
00:18:43 <shachaf> Sgeo_: what's the "e t a" on `olist 898
00:19:21 <Sgeo_> I think it's supposed to come at wheneverrichburlewpostsit'o'Clock
00:19:32 <Sgeo_> hth
00:19:54 <shachaf> Are you hinting that it'll be posted today?
00:20:12 <zzo38> In the Z-machine, the JSTAT extension table word is sixteen bits long, and I am trying to figure out its format. It was never documented, implemented, or used, but its position in the file is known.
00:21:03 <Sgeo_> shachaf, it will definitely either be posted today or a date that comes after today.
00:23:05 <shachaf> ∀d.d`comesAfter`today => posted(today) /\ posted(d)?
00:23:19 <shachaf> s#/\\#\\/#
00:26:21 <fizzie> Are you hinting that it'll be posted at all?
00:29:16 <oerjan> darn i'm out of apples. bet a doctor will show up if i'm not careful.
00:30:28 <shachaf> oerjan: are you racist against doctors..............
00:32:00 <oerjan> hey those doctors are dangerous, some of them will cut you up if you let them close
00:32:06 <nooodl> shachaf: that s command would've been a lot more fun if you hadn't used #s...
00:51:41 <shachaf> zzo38: What's the difference between port 194 and port 6667?
00:51:45 <shachaf> irc vs. ircd
00:52:59 <oerjan> one is de jure standard and one is de facto standard?
00:54:15 <shachaf> but which one is du jour standard
00:56:28 <ion> So zzo38 wrote his Gopher server in BASIC. That’s actually fitting.
00:56:57 <tswett> A standard du jour would be a really annoying kind of standard.
00:57:49 <shachaf> a "non" kind of standard
01:00:41 <tswett> So in the linear lambda calculus, the dual-cancellation function has the type ((a -> Bottom) -> Bottom) -> a. Looks suspiciously like the type of the "shift" operator in delimited continuations.
01:01:24 <shachaf> What's that?
01:01:31 <tswett> What's which?
01:02:37 <shachaf> The type of shift.
01:03:10 <shachaf> And does this have to do with linearity specifically?
01:03:37 <tswett> Mm. In Control.Monad.CC, it's p b -> ((m a -> m b) -> m b) -> m a. The first argument, p b, just indicates which limit you're using.
01:04:05 <shachaf> :t cont
01:04:06 <lambdabot> ((a -> r) -> r) -> Cont r a
01:04:55 <tswett> And yeah, I think this does have to do with linearity specifically. Like, in linear lambda calculus, Cont Bottom is essentially the identity.
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01:07:14 <tswett> So what's this going to look like. There's this function cancel :: ((a -> Bottom) -> Bottom) -> a. So the entire calculation is going to look like f (cancel g), where f :: a -> r and g :: (a -> Bottom) -> Bottom.
01:07:30 <tswett> The function "cancel" is magically aware of both f and g. It has to produce something of type r.
01:08:11 <tswett> Well, this is easy if you assume Bottom = r.
01:08:24 <zzo38> shachaf: Port 194 is standard, although usually much higher numbered port are used such as 6667 and numbers near it.
01:08:59 <tswett> Which actually seems like a perfectly defensible assumption, because Bottom is the "most inconvenient possible type": it cannot be obtained, and, once obtained, it cannot be disposed of.
01:09:14 <tswett> So it could be anything.
01:10:07 <tswett> TTT.
01:10:27 <tswett> (Isn't it weird how when people in this channel flip three coins, they almost always come up HTH?)
01:16:17 <shachaf> tswett: two of them are double-headed coins and one is a double-tailed coin hth
01:20:42 <tswett> Oh, I see. TTH
01:20:57 <zzo38> In linear logic, I think the dual of X is the same as (X -o Bottom) because bottom is the unit for par and implication is done by the dual of left side, par, right, so dual(X) par Bottom = dual(X) so ((X -o Bottom) -o Bottom) can also X.
01:21:06 <zzo38> Isn't it?
01:21:15 <tswett> Yeah, that's one interpretation.
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01:27:47 <tswett> Some of the linear lambda calculus is described here: http://homepages.inf.ed.ac.uk/wadler/papers/lineartaste/lineartaste-revised.pdf
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01:57:06 <oerjan> `? nooodl
01:57:08 <HackEgo> noooodl is right
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02:10:00 <oerjan> `learn nooodl is the correct spelling
02:10:04 <HackEgo> I knew that.
02:13:07 <Sgeo_> Being told that I probably got ripped off :/
02:13:30 <Bike> `? nooodl
02:13:32 <HackEgo> nooooodl is the correct spelling
02:13:35 <Bike> good
02:14:10 <Sgeo_> In particular, that the 650M sucks
02:18:50 <oerjan> what 650M
02:19:20 <mnoqy> the 650m
02:19:29 <oerjan> wait, that's not the amount of ram in your very expensive new machine? because if so, then yes, you have been.
02:20:21 <oerjan> (it's only slightly more than my frequently thrashing previous laptop had...)
02:20:34 <Sgeo_> Dual nVidia GeForce GT 650 M
02:20:50 <oerjan> aha. just the gpu then?
02:21:06 <Sgeo_> Yeah. And apparently it's not so great?
02:21:23 <Sgeo_> Oh, SLI
02:21:29 <oerjan> wait the sticker on my new laptop says approximately that, except 635M :P
02:21:50 <oerjan> also 2 GB after that
02:22:05 <Sgeo_> "Lenovo IdeaPad Y500 (59359559) Notebook Intel Core i7 3630QM(2.40GHz) 15.6" 16GB Memory DDR3 1600 16GB SSD 1TB HDD 5400rpm Dual NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M SLI"
02:22:11 <oerjan> *this sticker (it has more)
02:22:32 <Sgeo_> Paid 1159 for that, a few hundred more in warranty
02:22:35 <Sgeo_> Was I ripped off
02:22:58 * oerjan has no real idea, btw
02:23:28 <oerjan> i know what i got wasn't the top model, anyway
02:24:27 <shachaf> i hear that it's a bad idea to buy a Lenovo fooPad for foo /= Think
02:24:34 <Sgeo_> <ThoughtA> 650M SLI with a 3630QM is a little pants-on-head stupid though
02:24:44 <Fiora> I wonder why they have 650M SLI, that seems a little weird
02:24:53 <Fiora> like, two small cards vs one big one (there must be some good reason?)
02:25:07 <Fiora> I remember the 680M being incredibly expensive, I guess that could be why
02:29:42 <Sgeo_> Would I at least have a chance of replacing the graphics card myself?
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03:47:47 <Sgeo_> http://type.method.ac/
03:47:51 <Sgeo_> Kern Type, the kerning game
03:48:58 <Sgeo_> It's kind of broken for me, but then again a lot of stuff is broken for me, blah
03:49:23 <coppro> I wonder why
03:51:27 <shachaf> hm i got 100/100 on gargantuan
03:51:32 <shachaf> i think their scoring is broken!!
03:51:36 <shachaf> because i was p. far off
03:51:54 <Sgeo_> coppro, was that sarcastic? Because if you know why stuff is broken in my browser, please tell me
03:52:16 <coppro> Sgeo_: nope :(
03:53:22 <Bike> http://www.bulletproofexec.com/how-to-make-your-coffee-bulletproof-and-your-morning-too/
03:55:36 <Sgeo_> And here I was hoping that bulletproof coffee would protect me from bullets.
03:56:00 <Bike> i know!
03:56:10 <coppro> this disappoints me
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04:39:07 <shachaf> help how do i parametricity
04:46:52 <Sgeo_> I just watched an animation that's 13 years old
04:49:10 <Bike> okay?
04:49:44 <shachaf> you know the thing where you accidentally stumble onto a mathoverflow page?
04:50:00 <Bike> no
04:50:30 <shachaf> hey Bike how do i parametricity
04:50:30 <Sgeo_> http://www.userfriendly.org/animation/episode1.html
04:50:39 <Sgeo_> I probably first watched this over a decade ago
04:50:59 <Bike> shachaf: theta_1, theta_2, etc
04:51:22 <shachaf> Bike: θx
04:51:30 <Bike> yes.
04:51:37 <shachaf> or should that be þx
04:51:45 <Gracenotes> I don't have bulletproof coffee, but I put heavy cream in black tea
04:51:47 <Gracenotes> sometimes
04:51:55 <Gracenotes> perhaps I should put butter in instead
04:52:02 <shachaf> Gracenotes's greatest weakness.
04:52:10 <shachaf> Now we know where to shoot!
04:52:24 <Gracenotes> my teapot?
04:52:35 <shachaf> Your coffee.
04:53:23 <Gracenotes> I don't have coffee
04:53:54 <Gracenotes> that is my weakness :(
04:54:03 <shachaf> drat and double drat!
05:09:06 <augur> elliott: you're like a grownup now arent you
05:09:15 <elliott> 17
05:09:25 <augur> whats your favorite beer
05:09:52 <elliott> I've never had beer
05:10:19 <augur> well, sam smiths is worth looking into. i think ive only disliked their lager, for blandness
05:11:33 <zzo38> Would you have some idea about the format of "MID files" for Z-machine? I have the MID files for only one game (Sherlock), and all of them seem mostly the same: A note on command on channel 0 with velocity 64, some 0xFF command (possibly a delay?), and a note on command on channel 0 with velocity 0 (which is treated as a note off, due to the MIDI specification).
05:11:54 <Bike> elliott: how drunk are you right now
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05:12:44 <zzo38> The only documentation I could find says it consists of a 16-bit length followed by a "sequence of commands"; it says it might have something to do with MIDI, but doesn't quite make it very clear. It also says the third byte of the sequence of commands tells it what note to play; it looks to me like it is actually the second byte which does that.
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05:25:01 <augur> Bike: elliott might be, on non-beer. i can assure you that i am, however.
05:25:19 <Bike> on a scale!!
05:25:33 <augur> Bike: 0.0
05:25:33 <augur> what
05:26:22 <Bike> not drunk enough imo
05:26:46 <augur> Bike: im like three pints in at least.
05:27:03 <augur> ,aybe more? probably more. its hard to tell.
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05:33:06 <zzo38> The left speaker on my computer isn't working for some reason.
05:34:00 <oerjan> elliott: yay i solved my cabal install problem. turns out it only went wrong when running from inside winghci and worked fine on a real command line (after wiping out and repairing the database mess caused by the first attempt)
05:35:11 <oerjan> on the negative side, this of course will delay my switching to linux.
05:37:08 <oerjan> partially my problem was caused by the awkwardness in windows 8 of _getting_ to a command line, which caused me to start cabal from inside winghci in the first place. but now i've made a shortcut for it.
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06:09:40 <zzo38> oerjan: It is easy to get the command-line on Windows 8. Push Windows+R and then type cmd.exe
06:09:51 <zzo38> Same as Windows 7 and XP.
06:11:05 <zzo38> Luckily that still works on XP and all later version of Windows I have worked with on other computers. So does ALT+SPACE, ALT+F4, ALT+TAB, and all those other commands; they still continue to work just fine.
06:12:51 <oerjan> well i never learned the Windows+R shortcut before, or at least never remembered it.
06:13:12 <Bike> that's a useful tric.
06:13:12 <oerjan> because it was easier to remember just going to the start menu
06:14:46 <zzo38> It looks like really confusing, but actually most of the same keyboard commands still work, even when running full-screen programs.
06:16:59 <zzo38> I don't know all of the programs in Windows 8 (my own computer doesn't have Windows 8), although it seems there are many full-screen programs; you can still push ALT+F4 to close a program and ALT+TAB to switch between them, even though they changed around all of the GUI stuff.
06:17:37 <myndzi> you can probably still press ctrl+insert to copy and shift+insert to paste
06:17:42 <coppro> man, I'm going soft
06:17:43 <myndzi> MS likes their backwards compatibility
06:17:59 <shachaf> ꙮ.ꙮ
06:18:03 <shachaf> :'(
06:18:20 <oerjan> oh no, coppro is melting!
06:19:18 <zzo38> myndzi: Well, having the same keyboard commands work (and retaining cmd.exe; I am glad they did that and didn't force you to use PowerShell instead, which I almost expected them to do) is really the only reason I was able to figure out their computer in order to set it up for them.
06:19:35 <myndzi> hehe, i bet
06:19:40 <myndzi> gimme back dat command.com dammit
06:19:41 <myndzi> :P
06:19:46 <myndzi> i wanna edit my autoexec.bat
06:19:59 <shachaf> windows 8 is weird :'(
06:20:00 <shachaf> help
06:20:02 <myndzi> powershell has a lt of good things about it
06:20:08 <myndzi> but error messages is NOT one
06:20:21 <myndzi> i don't want a fuckin stack trace to tell me 'command not found'
06:21:02 <zzo38> Command.com is a DOS program though; it won't run in 64-bit Windows. You can still use a PC emulator to run DOS programs, though.
06:24:04 <shachaf> `quote
06:24:07 <HackEgo> 701) <Taneb> I swear my dreams are becoming increasingly rave + computer science oriented
06:24:09 <myndzi> shh, i'm just sayin'
06:24:13 <shachaf> `quote
06:24:15 <HackEgo> 93) <Quas_NaArt> Hooray! <Quas_NaArt> I'm an idiot.
06:24:15 <myndzi> you kids and your "windows"
06:24:16 <myndzi> ;)
06:24:17 <Bike> taneb++
06:31:29 <zzo38> Do you know what ".was-mid" files are?
06:31:47 <shachaf> Is it the case that a ".was-mid" file was a ".mid" file?
06:37:45 <zzo38> It doesn't appear to be, but it does seem to have something to do with MIDI. It doesn't use the ".mid" format, though; the only thing in the header is the length of the file.
06:39:51 <zzo38> The only ones I have seem to consist of a single note on channel zero of velocity 64 (there isn't any program change command), a delay (I don't actually know what it is, but it appears to consist of 0xFF followed by a 16-bit word; I assume it is a delay), and a note off (actually a note on with velocity zero, which the MIDI specification says is the same as a note off).
06:41:24 * copumpkin waves
06:41:32 <shachaf> yopumpkin
06:41:42 <copumpkin> yochaf
06:42:03 <shachaf> yoyo
06:42:19 <zzo38> I don't know anything else about them (or how the delay is supposed to work), so I was wondering if someone else know.
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07:47:35 <Taneb> Help
07:48:25 <FreeFull> With what?
07:48:45 * oerjan rescues Taneb by swooping him up in a net
07:48:49 <FreeFull> zzo38: Discovering what program generated/opened them would be helpful
07:49:05 <Taneb> I am on the Isle of Wight
07:49:20 <oerjan> oh dear, wights are dangerous
07:49:44 <zzo38> FreeFull: Yes, it would help. Unfortunately, I don't know.
07:49:51 <Taneb> The place is full of them!
07:50:35 <oerjan> don't let them touch you! i think!
07:50:44 <FreeFull> zzo38: What is the creation date on them?
07:51:12 <oerjan> in other news, simon tatham still hasn't fixed that thing where undo doesn't work across accidentally pressing n
07:51:49 <fizzie> Taneb: You should try to move to the Isle of Wraith, instead; you can gain a lot of levels there.
07:52:24 <Taneb> Unfortunately my level is still quite
07:52:49 <Taneb> Low, I was aiming for the Isle of Rat
07:52:53 <zzo38> The date on them is 1994, although they were actually created before that.
07:53:28 <FreeFull> DOS program territory then
07:53:51 <FreeFull> Although could have still been a 16-bit Windows program
07:53:58 <FreeFull> Either way, will be difficult
07:54:19 <FreeFull> zzo38: You could write a converter to mid to see what they sound like
07:54:20 <Taneb> Does F_
07:54:23 <Taneb> Bah
07:54:34 <Taneb> Stupid phone keyboard
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07:56:00 <AnotherTest> Hello
07:56:29 <Taneb> Does F-E+V=2 work for solids not topologically isomorphic to spheres?
07:57:29 <FreeFull> Taneb: Not in general
07:57:39 <zzo38> FreeFull: Well, from the information I have I think they were used on Amiga computers, as part of a game.
07:58:03 <FreeFull> zzo38: Oh, that's good to know
07:58:05 <Taneb> FreeFull, thanks
07:58:33 <zzo38> There are also the audio files, and the format of those is documented; however, the ".was-mid" files are unknown; like I said the ones I have are all very similar and all are 11 bytes long.
07:58:51 <FreeFull> I'm going to see if there are any .was-mid files on aminet
07:59:34 <oerjan> Taneb: see euler characteristic
08:00:03 <Taneb> oerjan, I alas am on my tiny phone
08:00:11 <elliott> oerjan: how about switching to another browser at least
08:00:25 <oerjan> Taneb: let's say that the 2 tends to vary a bit hth
08:00:37 <FreeFull> Nothing on aminet
08:00:47 <Taneb> The one with the voice "recognition"
08:01:35 <oerjan> Taneb: torus has 0 for example
08:01:40 <Taneb> Oh, the book I'm reading gets onto this
08:02:26 <FreeFull> zzo38: I'd go ask over at pouet or an amiga forum
08:03:51 <Taneb> Yeah, it's talking about Euler characteristics now
08:05:18 <Taneb> "This way lies madness"
08:06:41 <Taneb> (on trying to define the concept of a hole)
08:06:53 <FreeFull> Did you know, there is a number A for which floor(A^3n) is prime for all positive integers n?
08:07:10 <Bike> can't you just say something about cuts and be done with it
08:07:14 <fizzie> Oh no! AltaVista is closing tomorrow! How can we find anything on the Internets any more?
08:07:37 <elliott> fizzie: omg really
08:07:37 <oerjan> FreeFull: rings a bell
08:08:01 <Taneb> FreeFull, is that number computable?
08:08:32 <fizzie> elliott: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/54125001066/keeping-our-focus-on-whats-next "Please see below for product closure details and dates." "AltaVista (July 8, 2013)"
08:09:58 <Bike> why does yahoo have a tumblr
08:10:00 <FreeFull> Taneb: If the Riemann Hypothesis is true, yes
08:10:05 <FreeFull> If not, I don't know
08:10:26 <fizzie> Bike: I think it's because they're hip?
08:10:29 <elliott> fizzie: apparently AltaVista is "powered by Bing".
08:10:36 <Bike> lol.
08:10:36 <elliott> so I guess it's been dead a long time
08:10:56 <Taneb> "Now we can calculate g by drawing faces and so forth on our solids" so forth being moustaches, glasses, goatees, etc?
08:10:59 <Bike> "If you’re a publisher and currently using Yahoo! WebPlayer on your site," who is this even written for
08:11:15 <Bike> To stay up on all your favorite celebrity news, check out Yahoo! India OMG!.
08:11:53 <Bike> "It’s a big day here at Xobni. We’ve been acquired by Yahoo! At this moment, we’re unpacking our boxes from San Francisco and settling in to the new Sunnyvale space at Yahoo! HQ." i love how i've never heard of these companies and their names are incomprehensible.
08:11:56 <FreeFull> Bike: Yahoo owns tumblr
08:12:42 <fizzie> Bike: Xobni is "inbox" backwards.
08:12:49 <FreeFull> "Yahoo! announced its intention to acquire Tumblr on May 20, 2013, for approximately $1.1 billion. The deal closed on June 20."
08:12:50 <fizzie> You can certainly comprehend that.
08:12:52 <Bike> well they own flickr too but they didn't make a photo album announcing this
08:13:01 <Bike> fizzie: you overestimate me, imo.
08:13:42 <elliott> I searched "help" in AltaVista and one of the related searches was "depression help" and now I'm depressed.
08:13:50 <elliott> imo, gonna take a risk and claim this is ironic.
08:13:57 <shachaf> no elliott
08:14:00 <shachaf> don't do it
08:14:05 <shachaf> "the worst risk"
08:14:55 <Taneb> Huh
08:15:38 <Taneb> Apparently "Kleine bottle" is a pun in German
08:15:47 <oerjan> take one alanisette and call me in the morning
08:16:11 <elliott> fizzie: In December 2010, a Yahoo! employee leaked PowerPoint slides indicating that the search engine would be shut down as part of a consolidation at Yahoo!.[16] In May 2011, the shutdown commenced, and all results began to be returned on a Yahoo! page.
08:16:15 <elliott> so they're shutting down, um, the main page and logo.
08:16:56 <Bike> awesome.
08:17:25 <FreeFull> Taneb: Small bottle, or?
08:17:26 <fizzie> elliott: And the logo is no longer the mountain logo either, so I guess that's a relief.
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08:17:38 <elliott> fizzie: you're old.
08:18:01 <fizzie> No, no, I just heard middle age doesn't begin before 36.
08:19:36 <Taneb> FreeFull flask/surface
08:21:07 <FreeFull> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7od4JA2Y274 There is an old Polish show about someone in his middle age
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08:28:51 <ion> A GUI interface using Visual Basic to track an IP Address http://guivbip.codeplex.com/
08:32:56 <oerjan> um isn't that, like, an ancient meme from some tv show
08:33:04 <ion> yes
08:33:49 <oerjan> okay then
08:36:15 <Taneb> Aaaaah the next chapter is about the normal distribution
08:38:25 <oerjan> someone take backup of Taneb's brain, stat!
08:39:04 <Taneb> Don't say that word!
08:39:13 <oerjan> backup?
08:39:37 <oerjan> "of"?
08:39:51 <Taneb> No! The s word
08:40:01 <ion> I see what you did there.
08:40:16 <fizzie> I love the normal distribution, it's so... normal...
08:40:21 <oerjan> ...
08:40:28 * oerjan swats Taneb -----###
08:41:23 <Gracenotes> the citizens of my country are non-normal probability distributions with means and variances
08:41:24 <ion> @botswat
08:41:24 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
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08:41:36 <Gracenotes> unfortunately, they are collectively normal :(
08:42:09 <oerjan> @slap ion
08:42:09 * lambdabot beats up ion
08:42:51 <fizzie> Does the "law of large numbers" mean that people who are... materially robust... are more likely to be normal?
08:43:49 <fizzie> (I think I mixed up the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem, there. Aw.)
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08:44:28 <Gracenotes> well it's not like statistics is an exact science!
08:45:05 <fizzie> In my defense, the central limit theorem involves large numbers of things.
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08:45:27 <Gracenotes> (rather, science is approximately just statistics, in the real world...)
08:46:32 <Gracenotes> well, you could do science without in-depth statistics. just require every study to give either a yes or no answer, and take the consensus of studies.
08:46:45 <Taneb> I had a not very good stats teacher for the harder part of stats I learnt
08:46:47 <Gracenotes> it would work reasonably well.
08:46:57 <Gracenotes> maybe.
08:47:38 <fizzie> Isn't that pretty close to "you could do science without statistics by pushing the statistical analysis from the scientists to the readers"?
08:49:30 <Gracenotes> That is what happens anyway.
08:50:01 <Gracenotes> The yes/no is partly decided externally, rather by the researchers (although they can make their best case).
08:51:34 <Gracenotes> Statistics affords a notion of certainty, though, so rather than taking a plurality, you take a maximum; the best most certain replicated paper and accept that.
08:54:52 <FreeFull> Readers don't know how to do statistical analysis though
08:55:22 <Gracenotes> I'm not sure if some scientists do >.> ...or readers
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10:41:44 <elliott> `relcome QuackQuacker
10:41:48 <HackEgo> QuackQuacker: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
10:42:06 <QuackQuacker> =]
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10:56:30 <elliott> Koen_: wat
10:56:43 <Koen_> hmm?
10:56:54 <Koen_> I'm gonna need some context to answer that question elliott
10:57:01 <matthiaskrgr> :D
10:57:07 <elliott> the quit/part cycles
10:57:14 <Koen_> oh
10:57:24 <Koen_> well I don't know, that tends to happen a lot this days
10:57:37 <Koen_> something with the client must be wrong
10:57:48 <Koen_> it only happens when I start it the first time
11:15:13 <oerjan> elliott: hey steve is in ##nomic wondering if anyone wants to ask him about The Old Days hth
11:18:46 <elliott> oerjan: my only question is when he'll start using hth
11:19:12 <oerjan> i haven't started infecting him yet hth
11:19:38 <elliott> oerjan: are you still using IE
11:19:44 <oerjan> yes hth
11:19:53 <elliott> how about stop twh
11:20:07 <oerjan> maybe later hth
11:20:20 <AnotherTest> aah!
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11:23:27 <elliott> oerjan: you can delay the nagging by picking a new featured language >:)
11:40:31 <oerjan> it's only me and steve talking in ##nomic and i'm too tired to keep up conversation :(
11:43:45 <elliott> oerjan: tell him you need a nap. old people understand.
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13:55:15 <katla> hi
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15:29:30 <fizzie> Why don't they make three-legged washing machines? Would be a lot easier to level, and never be unstable.
15:31:17 <fizzie> Guess it'd tilt easier, though...
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16:01:36 <katla> hi
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17:33:23 <Lymia> fizzie, there's no reason for the thing to not be triangular in shape
17:33:35 <Lymia> Besides most rooms being rectangular :p
17:35:39 <coppro> packing
17:35:42 <coppro> ;)
17:35:58 <coppro> also because the interior is cylindrical
17:36:44 <Lymia> I see no problem i packing triangular shapes together... assuming a house with proper geometry, at least :p
17:40:15 <fizzie> I was thinking they could turn the drum so that the axis of the cylinder is vertical, after which it'd fit reasonably neatly in a triangle, but I suppose then you couldn't get similar tumbling action.
17:44:19 <coppro> yeah, front-load washers are better
17:44:43 <fizzie> All the top-load washers I've seen have had the drum in the same configuration as the front-loaders.
17:44:55 <fizzie> There's just been a door in the side of the drum.
17:45:47 <fizzie> Our old one lacked the "stop the drum so that the door points upwards" feature, so you had to manually rotate it around if it didn't happen to stop the right way around. (It never stopped the right way around.)
17:46:05 <fizzie> Front-load washers are still better, though, because you can stare at them, mesmerized.
17:48:15 <coppro> Most cheap home washers here have vertical drums
17:48:45 <zzo38> There are some things Infocom defined but are unknown. One is the "picture font" in the Z-machine (font 2); I have recently figured out how that works and have implemented it in my Z-machine interpreter. However, there are some things that are still unknown.
17:49:59 <zzo38> One thing which remains unknown is the format of eight extension table words that were never used, implemented, or documented, beyond a short description of each that Infocom wrote.
17:51:40 <zzo38> They are four "mouse menu tables" (directions, inventory, frequent verbs, frequent words), a status word which the game is supposed to write to indicate which menus have been updated (I don't know which bit corresponds to which), a button event routine, a joystick event routine, a button status word, and a joystick status word.
17:52:10 <zzo38> It is unclear whether this means mouse buttons or joystick buttons or what, and the format of these status words is also unclear (all that is known is that they are sixteen bits each). Do you have any ideas?
17:54:43 <zzo38> There appears to be no way to know other than to guess.
17:55:01 <zzo38> Therefore, more people who make possible guesses and then see what seems better.
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17:59:10 <zzo38> I have asked elsewhere too, but also see if anyone in here also has any possible idea of what these things mean.
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18:19:47 <pikhq> I live, I think
18:21:45 <AnotherTest> may the gods of apt-get be with me
18:21:58 <AnotherTest> I somehow feel I'm going to get in trouble by upgrading to wheezy...
18:22:47 <coppro> pikhq: are you married yet?
18:23:49 <fizzie> Is pikhq getting married? Is #esoteric invited to the wedding?
18:23:51 <AnotherTest> is gnome 3 any good? I'm scared
18:26:55 <Koen_> is pikhq getting married with a gnome?
18:30:17 <fizzie> Is the wedding logic written mostly in JavaScript? I heard that was something they did in Gnome 3.
18:30:48 <AnotherTest> fizzie: is that actually true?
18:31:33 <AnotherTest> I somehow fear I'll have to turn on gnome classic
18:34:38 <AnotherTest> it looks way to fancy
18:34:44 <fizzie> AnotherTest: GNOME Shell, the major UI component in GNOME 3, is, I think, largely written in JavaScript.
18:35:12 <fizzie> Also there was the hulabaloo about making JavaScript the "official recommended language" of GNOME, though that didn't really mean much.
18:35:20 <pikhq> coppro: No.
18:35:35 <coppro> :(
18:36:03 <AnotherTest> what's with the let's-rewrite-everything-in-javascript-hype
18:36:38 <fizzie> AnotherTest: I think they were more about recommending it for new code.
18:36:43 <pikhq> AnotherTest: Well, you see, Javascript has become the universal bytecode.
18:37:12 <AnotherTest> pikhq: Please elaborate
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18:41:04 <pikhq> Well, you see, WEB WEB WEB WEB therefore WEB
18:41:18 <zzo38> I really think you shoud use compiled programming languages when they will do.
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18:56:58 <Gracenotes> JavaScript is a compiled language
18:57:19 <Gracenotes> this trend couldn't happen any sooner. nay, it is just in time.
19:03:02 <zzo38> Still, I think it isn't as good as some compiled programming language such as C. JavaScript isn't a particularly bad interpreted language, though.
19:04:23 <Sgeo_> How difficult is this as a proof-of-work? Determining a seed that has a specified feature at spawn (e.g. spawn area covered in lava)
19:08:58 <Phantom_Hoover> you mean... in minecraft?
19:09:11 <Phantom_Hoover> that's heavily dependent on mc's terrain gen internals then
19:09:12 <fizzie> Do you folks happen to know if you can fit a letter-sized magazine (not very thick) inside a C4 envelope?
19:16:36 <zzo38> Unfortunately I don't know. If I had such things I might try, but I don't know what C4 envelope is.
19:23:23 <zzo38> (I don't know the names of the different envelopes.)
19:23:39 <fizzie> It's one of the ISO 216 paper sizes; an envelope that reasonably fits an A4 sheet.
19:24:38 <fizzie> (Technically, the size of Cn is the geometric mean of An and Bn, while the size of Bn is the geometric mean of An and A(n-1).)
19:25:11 <fizzie> Based on the numbers, I think it might fit; letter is only 5.9 mm wider than A4, and a bit shorter.
19:30:12 <Koen_> are you mailing C4? I think you can get arrested for that!
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20:26:35 <Taneb> Dammit, shachaf
20:27:31 <Taneb> Someone made a post about art styles on Tumblr and replied "That's a partially ordered set!"
20:27:38 <Taneb> I blame you for this
20:28:38 <Taneb> shachaf--
20:28:41 <Taneb> :(
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20:31:25 <Taneb> (okay, to be fair, the original poster did pretty much describe art styles as a partially ordered set, and I appreciate shachaf teaching me all that stuff)
20:31:33 <Taneb> ( shachaf++ shachaf++ )
20:38:52 <Gracenotes> :t \shachaf -> ((shachaf ++ shachaf) ++)
20:38:53 <lambdabot> [a] -> [a] -> [a]
20:51:23 <fizzie> > (\shachaf -> ((shachaf ++ shachaf) ++)) "sha" "f"
20:51:24 <lambdabot> "shashaf"
20:53:59 <Taneb> The book I am reading is proving very interesting
20:58:13 <Taneb> For pretty much the first time ever I am seriously tempted to ring up my local bookshop and ask them to order in some of the books from the "Further Reading" section
20:58:24 <Taneb> Especially the bit about topology I found pretty interesting
21:00:42 <katla> what book is it
21:01:12 <Taneb> In Pursuit of the Unknown: 17 Equations That Changed the World by Ian Stewart
21:02:07 <Taneb> It's a whistlestop tour around various realms of mathematics and a bit of physics
21:02:42 <Taneb> Not enjoying the current chapter, on the Fourier transform
21:03:05 <katla> oh
21:03:50 <Phantom_Hoover> Taneb, what topological equations did he cover...
21:04:04 <katla> V + F = E + 2
21:04:16 <Taneb> ^
21:04:27 <Taneb> Well, he wrote it as V - E + F = 2
21:04:45 <Taneb> Then introduced topology from its proof
21:05:44 <Bike> what's wrong with fourier
21:08:11 <Taneb> Bike, he introduced it too fast and I wasn't already that familiar with it and also I fell asleep
21:08:18 <Taneb> I may start the chapter over
21:08:43 <Bike> sleep is hard.
21:09:46 <Taneb> I find sleep too easy
21:10:01 <katla> dude fuck fourier
21:10:40 <Bike> fourier's awesome srry
21:12:17 <fizzie> Fourier's, like, so 1800s.
21:12:53 <shachaf> Taneb: "and I replied"?
21:13:17 <shachaf> Or how am I blamed here, exactly?
21:13:26 <Taneb> shachaf: "reblogged and added a comment"
21:13:42 <shachaf> Taneb: I mean: Did you drop the word "I"?
21:13:43 <Taneb> And you taught me about partially ordered sets in such a way that they stuck in my mind
21:13:59 <Taneb> shachaf: yes, yes I did
21:14:09 <shachaf> Anyway, since when did I talk to you about partially ordered sets?
21:14:13 <Taneb> Which I realise completely changes the meaning of the sentence
21:14:15 <shachaf> I don't remember that.
21:14:37 <Taneb> It came up in a bunch of other things, mainly as an example of a category
21:14:43 <Taneb> In #fiora, iirc
21:14:49 <shachaf> Oh, oh, right.
21:15:07 <shachaf> I think I assumed you already knew whwat it meant, though.
21:15:33 <shachaf> Anyway, the "cool kind of partially" ordered sets "is semilattices".
21:17:28 <Taneb> I don't think art styles form a semilattice
21:18:02 <shachaf> Oh.
21:18:28 <shachaf> Well, at least the poset category of art styles has a terminal object.
21:18:31 <shachaf> Namely ASCII art.
21:19:18 <shachaf> (THE JOKE IS TERMINAL)
21:19:21 <Gracenotes> does that include an arrow labelled libcaca?
21:26:22 <katla> whats #firoa
21:26:55 <Sgeo_> Some place where I'm an op, apparently
21:27:42 <Sgeo_> Oh, katla mistyped
21:28:46 <shachaf> fully illuminated ranches of armenia
21:28:49 <shachaf> hth
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22:32:40 <kmc> have you all seen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exit_Through_the_Gift_Shop
22:32:58 <kmc> it's a pretty #esoteric movie
22:33:35 <shachaf> nope
22:37:41 <coppro> how can a movie be #esoteric?
22:37:55 <coppro> also, does anyone else in here know anything about quantum computation?
22:38:21 <katla> a tiny bit
22:39:21 <Bike> i know that i should defer to someone with a copy of aaronson's book *ahem fiora*
22:47:16 <coppro> quantum computation is weird
22:48:42 <katla> not compared to the stuff #esoteric usually deals with
22:55:54 <Sgeo_> Banksy directed a movie?
22:56:11 <Sgeo_> How does one do that while staying secretive? I thought Banksy stayed secretive
22:59:50 <Bike> well, directors are already fuckin crazy
23:00:00 <Bike> also he also has like, his own online store and website already.
23:01:31 <kmc> Nielsen and Chuang is a good book on quantum computing
23:01:54 <kmc> Sgeo_: when he's depicted in the film, he's wearing a hoodie over his face, and has a voice scrambler
23:01:59 <kmc> I don't know about the directing part
23:02:22 <kmc> presumably he has trusted associates who know his identity or have at least seen his face
23:02:59 <Gracenotes> ..nothing like A Scanner Darkly?
23:03:42 <Gracenotes> oh. Banksy himself.
23:03:43 <Sgeo_> Oh, I forgot it was kmc who linked, I thought I was randomly bringing up Banksy for no reason
23:04:14 <Gracenotes> kmc: is this anything like a Mary Sue of Banksy?
23:04:30 <Bike> you mean a short story where he fucks spock?
23:04:54 <Gracenotes> god, who wouldn't
23:04:59 <kmc> Sgeo_: amazing
23:07:44 <Phantom_Hoover> i thought they'd found banksy and he was some boring middle class guy
23:08:41 <Bike> boring middle class guy pride!!
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23:08:59 <Sgeo_> Hi okay
23:09:09 <mnoqy> hi
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23:47:07 <Bike> this music video is made of ansi art.
23:50:16 <FreeFull> Ansi art doesn't survive mpeg encoding very well
23:52:16 <kmc> Phantom_Hoover: if banksy did not exist it would be necessary to invent him
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