←2013-07-11 2013-07-12 2013-07-13→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:01:25 <Bike> The team injected their snails with two different types of lyophilized bacteria, Escherichia coli and Microccocus lysodeikticus, as well as ground-up gonads from an unlucky snail infected with a trematode parasite. Some snails escaped these treatments and just received innocuous injections of snail saline or ground-up uninfected gonads.
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00:21:54 <Koen__> there's an animal eating the inside of my wall
00:22:11 <Koen__> it makes a lot of creepy noises
00:36:03 <Sgeo> :( I can't download Java 6 anymore without having an Oracle account
00:40:37 <Sgeo> I probably shouldn't be giving a Java 6 application Administrative privileges anyway
00:41:45 <Fiora> Bike: oh gosh, I found this thing on yks
00:41:52 <Fiora> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/glennf/crowdfunding-a-guide-to-what-works-and-why I still can't get over the fact that this. existed, and /failed/
00:42:16 <Phantom_Hoover> well did it fail
00:42:22 <Phantom_Hoover> he cancelled it like halfway in
00:42:58 <Fiora> yeah, I mean, like. levels of irony
00:44:15 <Sgeo> I'm still waiting on a Kickstarter project I backed in 2011
00:44:26 <Phantom_Hoover> which one's that
00:44:34 <Sgeo> http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1508284443/grandroids-real-artificial-life-on-your-pc?ref=live
00:44:38 <Phantom_Hoover> was it one of the first wave or was it something depressing and Sgeo
00:44:45 <Phantom_Hoover> oh it was something depressing and Sgeo
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00:45:51 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, i'd give up hope
00:47:22 <Sgeo> Well, I mean, he's still working on it
00:47:26 <Sgeo> I can see his blog posts
00:47:48 <Phantom_Hoover> yes
00:47:53 <Sgeo> ........AND I HAVE A COMPUTER THAT CAN RUN IT.... when it goes into backer-only beta someday
00:48:10 <Phantom_Hoover> but this is pretty much a textbook case of a kickstarter that's doomed
00:48:16 <Phantom_Hoover> at least, a game kickstarter
00:48:35 <Sgeo> I think he got the creatures to balance themselves
00:50:19 <shachaf> @tell Bike I couldn't find a copy of the book with the laughterless planet in it. So I'll take a different one.
00:50:19 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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00:53:49 <Phantom_Hoover> Sgeo, well like he's working without any kind of oversight or authority from the people funding him
00:54:20 <Sgeo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKRpxj5sqg8&feature=youtu.be
00:54:25 <Phantom_Hoover> and from past experience i suspect what'll happen is he'll piss that time away because there's no pressure on him to deliver rather than tinkering away forever and you'll all be left at a loss
00:54:46 <Bike> Fiora: https://twitter.com/Fausto_Sterling/status/355437744085938179
00:54:49 <Bike> (scroll up)
00:54:59 <Bike> shachaf: that workz
00:55:12 <Fiora> woow.
00:55:32 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Planaria_nervous.png kind of shitty as brains go, tbh
00:55:56 <Phantom_Hoover> when you look at that it's not really all that surprising is it
00:55:58 <Bike> on the other hand the paper claimed that they don't move while headless
00:56:11 <Bike> so probably the "brain" does have the CPG sort of things
00:56:16 <Bike> or drivers anyway
00:56:51 <Phantom_Hoover> (is that thing about dinosaurs having a secondary neural cluster to control their hind legs actually true these days?)
00:57:07 <Fiora> I guess when they finally get working head transplants on mammals we'll be able to get a bigger idea of how non-brain memory works?
00:57:15 <Fiora> or, well. non brain cognition things in general
00:57:21 <Bike> well, it's... a lot different between planarians and vertebrates.
00:57:35 <Bike> i mean i dunno about you but even as a bike i'm like 2000% more cephalized than those things.
00:57:41 <Fiora> xD
00:57:45 <Fiora> ... cephalized?
00:57:49 <shachaf> Wait, Bike is a bike?
00:58:01 <Fiora> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cephalization I had no idea this was a thing
00:58:08 <Bike> yeah, there are degrees of headedness.
00:58:19 <Bike> a jellyfish or w/e doesn't have a centralized brain, unsurprisingly, just a nerve net
00:58:34 <Phantom_Hoover> so does it... ever concentrate at the... non-head end
00:58:54 <Bike> the "head" for this purpose is defined as the bit with the brain, so
00:58:57 <mnoqy> the head end's wherever it ends up concentrating, of course
00:59:13 <Bike> it's not inherent that shit comes out the other end, if that's what you're thinking
00:59:15 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, well like all the other things generally associated with 'head'
00:59:31 <Phantom_Hoover> 'bit that goes forward', 'bit where food goes in', 'bit where eyes are', etc.
00:59:39 <Bike> well once you have a brain having the sense organs nearer the brain is obviously advantageous
01:00:11 <Bike> having your eyes behind you isn't very good, motion-wise
01:00:12 <Phantom_Hoover> yes, but you can have things in metastable but non-optimal positions can't you
01:00:18 <Fiora> I remember hearing a thing that like, the brain would internally delay signals from closer sensory organs so that everything was synchronized?
01:00:24 <Fiora> or is that just like, a conscious illusory effect
01:00:36 <Fiora> it was something along the lines of "technically, tall people experience the world with very slightly more delay"
01:00:43 <Bike> Fiora: that's a theory, yeah
01:00:44 <Fiora> because their feet are farther away
01:00:55 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: yeah but not seeing well means dying fast.
01:01:13 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, er, what does seeing 'well' mean
01:01:31 <Bike> i'm thinking about the 'bit that goes forward' question
01:01:35 <Sgeo> The hell?
01:01:37 <Phantom_Hoover> i mean aren't mammaly eyes pretty shit as eyes go
01:01:38 <Bike> say you had an animal with a head, and eyes on the tail
01:01:41 <Sgeo> Are my icons shared between users?
01:02:02 <Sgeo> I deleted an ActiveWorlds shortcut off my Work user, and I don't see it on my Home user's desktop
01:02:04 <Bike> pretty easy to sneak up and decapitate it, see
01:02:35 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: as for dinos, i found http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/365/did-dinosaurs-have-a-separate-brain-in-their-behinds. the answer seems to be no. unfortunately.
01:02:53 <Fiora> are there any vetebrates with a split or spread out nervous system?
01:02:58 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, well i was thinking more basic stuff i guess
01:03:07 <Bike> Fiora: what do you think your spinal cord is :p
01:03:12 <zzo38> I have seen recent movies from Touchstone and Pixar (both of which are Disney), and I didn't see Mickey Mouse (although I wasn't really trying). Is it only their hand-drawn cartoons that have Mickey Mouse?
01:03:18 <Fiora> I meant, like, the brain itself,sorry >_<
01:03:20 <Bike> that shit is /loaded/ with CPGs lemme tell you
01:03:29 <Fiora> CPG?
01:03:32 <Bike> well i mean, what's "the brain itself". the spinal cord is part of the CNS
01:03:41 <Bike> central pattern generator, sort of vaguely like a clock
01:03:52 <Fiora> oh, so like phased locked loops for neurons?
01:04:02 <Bike> yeah.
01:04:20 <Fiora> I guess like. a human brain seems to keep working mostly fine with a severed spinal cord though?
01:04:22 <Bike> pretty much exactly that in fact.
01:04:44 <Bike> Fiora: the brain also works mostly fine with a hemisphere removed~
01:04:52 <Fiora> ... that's true <.<
01:05:12 <Bike> (mod development)
01:05:23 <Sgeo> :( Active Worlds is behaving dumbly
01:05:25 <Fiora> but like how much of her brain does buttercup not have
01:05:37 <Fiora> it seems a little odd to define the spinal cord like that ? I don't know you know more than me
01:05:59 <Bike> well, yeah, if you mean do you need the spinal cord to be a poet or w/e then yeah you don't.
01:11:06 <Bike> in the "spinal cord injury" article on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Man_falling_of_horse.jpg "Falling as a part of recreational activities can cause spinal cord injuries."
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01:18:02 <Bike> Fiora: so um... there is a fairly high degree of decentralization in vertebrates even; i mean we have lots of autonomic ganglia too: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Gray839.png
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01:27:09 <Fiora> Bike: I guess what I'm kind of thinking of is like um...
01:27:20 <Fiora> the human nervous system is kind of like a tree, isn't it? like the stomach doesn't really talk to the leg
01:27:27 <Fiora> but they both talk to some central nerve
01:27:38 <Fiora> are there cases where the nervous system is more like... a graph?
01:27:47 <Phantom_Hoover> aren't cephalopods like that
01:28:02 <Bike> jellyfish are like tha.t
01:28:11 <Bike> invertebrates generallly don't have notochords, i guess
01:28:17 <Bike> i don't know much about their anatomy though :(
01:28:20 <Fiora> like, two brains would be more like a graph
01:28:24 <Fiora> than one
01:28:32 <Fiora> wow I used graph theory to describe this I am a dork
01:28:50 <Bike> well neuroscientists do it too "it's cool"
01:29:19 <Bike> i'm not sure what the adaptive advantage of having two brains would be, though.
01:29:43 <Bike> I mean, how often do you use a tree with two roots
01:29:45 <Phantom_Hoover> it's a reasonable enough way to describe something which is... made of nodes connected by edges
01:29:58 <Phantom_Hoover> although i guess on the neuron level it's not that graphy
01:30:18 <Bike> it's pretty graphy in some micro situations
01:30:34 <Bike> c.f. everything ramon y cajal ever drew
01:31:10 <Bike> http://25.media.tumblr.com/c0cc8be3d7d1cc3cf4512fc69ce9a8a6/tumblr_metattU8KO1rvzqmmo1_400.gif "good tree, imo"
01:31:11 <Phantom_Hoover> well i mean, graphs aren't necessarily the best abstraction to use
01:31:18 <Phantom_Hoover> since they have axons and dendrites ans all that shit
01:31:28 <Bike> directed graph.
01:31:52 <Bike> on the level of individual neurons it's inaccurate sure, but that's some dorky shit annyway
01:32:26 <Bike> http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v4/n1/images/nrn1010-f2.jpg the neuron people came from the sky to rule us
01:33:44 <Fiora> Bike: http://aegisaglow.tumblr.com/post/55219226085/neurosciencestuff-first-man-to-hear-people wow this is timely
01:33:53 <Bike> " The only multicellular animals that have no nervous system at all are sponges, placozoans and mesozoans, which have very simple body plans. The nervous systems of ctenophores (comb jellies) and cnidarians (e.g., anemones, hydras, corals and jellyfishes) consist of a diffuse nerve net. All other types of animals, with the exception of a few types of worms, have a nervous system containing a brain, a central cord (or two cords running ...
01:33:59 <Bike> ... in parallel), and nerves radiating from the brain and central cord"
01:34:02 <Bike> i gues that answers the question of whether anything actually has two brains.
01:34:38 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, you're under arrest for aiding and abetting crimes against colour coordination
01:34:44 <Bike> yeah, that was a weird case. brain problems generally are some fucked shit, imo.
01:34:57 <Fiora> color... color coordination? @_@
01:35:15 <Bike> he's saying the blog is ugly
01:35:18 <Fiora> that's not my blog :<
01:35:25 <Fiora> that's haven's blog
01:35:26 <Phantom_Hoover> Fiora, hence 'aiding and abetting'
01:35:27 <Bike> kind of have to agree, really
01:35:35 <Phantom_Hoover> or, as we call it in scotland, 'art and part'
01:35:36 <Fiora> ;_;
01:35:46 <Bike> do you actually say that
01:35:54 <Phantom_Hoover> scots law is great
01:36:16 <Bike> you're the guys where you can be "guilty but not proven", yeah?
01:36:35 <Phantom_Hoover> it's just called 'not proven' i think?
01:36:37 <Phantom_Hoover> but yes
01:37:34 <Phantom_Hoover> originally it was just guilty/not proven but at some point a jury pointedly ruled 'not guilty' and the two acquittals just kind of coexisted
01:40:36 <Bike> hm, xenoturbella are deuterosomes but don't have brains
01:41:01 <Phantom_Hoover> the other one i remember is that the person upon whom a crime was visited is referred to as 'the complainer'
01:41:26 <Bike> haha
01:42:07 <Bike> http://www.accessscience.com/loadBinary.aspx?filename=YB051410FG0010.gif gonna use my authority as a bikeologist to say xenoturbella look terrible
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01:48:21 <Phantom_Hoover> Bike, but look they have a groove!
01:49:19 <Bike> no they entirely lack groove or funk of any sort
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02:36:18 <Bike> https://s3.amazonaws.com/ksr/assets/000/400/035/d1871725b651f53a9094e9b9d803ef6e_large.jpg?1361420820
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03:21:25 <shachaf> Gracenotes: Oops, I guess I forgot to click the button for bacat.
03:21:33 <shachaf> So I guess I'll be on the waitlist too.
03:21:38 <shachaf> Or I could just not bother, and just show up.
03:28:34 <Gracenotes> This sounds like a plan
03:28:58 <Gracenotes> I think people are more likely to cancel without telling anyone
03:29:13 <Gracenotes> it would be a shame to go all the way into SF, though
03:29:33 <Gracenotes> though not in general
03:30:38 <shachaf> I'll ask Vlad, I guess.
03:31:03 * Sgeo wants to combine a WorldsPlayer-like architecture with WebGL
03:31:35 <Sgeo> Although WorldsPlayer-like might not be that descriptive
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03:46:01 <Sgeo> Is good.example.com safe from evil.example.com?
03:46:12 <Sgeo> Or should example.com make sure evil.example.com doesn't exist
03:46:23 <Sgeo> (user created Javascript and HTML pages)
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03:50:04 <tswett> Good news, everyone!
03:50:20 <tswett> elliott now knows how to count to two!
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03:50:39 <tswett> Sgeo: I'm pretty sure that foo.example.com and bar.example.com are totally separate and can't interact with each other.
03:50:54 <doesthiswork> you got some omichronic?
03:52:15 <doesthiswork> oh wait, that epside isn't out yet
03:52:20 <doesthiswork> nevermind
03:52:27 <doesthiswork> *episode
03:52:44 <tswett> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same_origin_policy
03:52:57 <tswett> Looks like foo.example.com can interfere with example.com, however. But example.com can't interfere with foo.example.com.
03:55:19 <quintopia> doesthiswork: i'm ready for the next episode
03:55:41 <doesthiswork> I'll link you
03:58:32 <doesthiswork> quintopia: http://watchacartoon.vv.si/ro/Watch-Futurama%20Season%207%20Episode%2016%20T%20The%20Terrestrial-_-aHR0cDovL3d3dy53YXRjaGNhcnRvb25vbmxpbmUuY29tL2Z1dHVyYW1hLXNlYXNvbi03LWVwaXNvZGUtMTYtdC10aGUtdGVycmVzdHJpYWw=
04:02:58 <quintopia> kk
04:04:40 <shachaf> Gracenotes: I asked Vlad and he said I could just show up.
04:11:33 <Gracenotes> shachaf: I don't know Vlad, perhaps I shall be forbidden :o
04:11:47 <shachaf> They don't really ask about names or anything.
04:12:18 <shachaf> Hopefully we get to use the big room again. The small room is, uh, too small.
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04:37:30 <Bike> Fiora: http://www.superksonic.com/the-project
04:49:53 <fizzie> shachaf: Logically, though, isn't the big room then, uh, too big?
04:50:22 <fizzie> You should ask for the suitably-sized room instead.
04:55:39 <shachaf> fizzie: That one is, uh, too suitably-sized.
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04:58:21 <fizzie> ic
05:00:43 <tswett> Sgeo: http://nomic.zbasu.net/nomicbank/userinfo/sgeo/
05:00:53 <tswett> Sgeo: it doesn't do much, though; it's just a thing for tracking debts.
05:01:01 <tswett> In three different currencies, even.
05:01:18 <Sgeo> ...why did I initially think that would be a LambdaMOO thing?
05:03:30 <Sgeo> http://www.mudlet.org/
05:03:38 <Sgeo> Hmm, how do mappers like that work?
05:03:46 <Sgeo> And do they assume MUD, and not work in a MOO
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05:17:34 <comex> so am I confused, or do iterators basically work as an explicit (but not much more verbose and less magic) version of stream fusion?
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05:19:37 <shachaf> What kind of iterators?
05:20:22 <comex> python-style - i guess really the same thing as streams but without skip
05:20:51 <comex> ah, i was confused - they do, but trivially so
05:22:14 <comex> the only magic rewrite rule in haskell's stream fusion is that stream+unstream is the identity
05:23:41 <comex> so if you just be upfront about doing things with iterators, there's no need for that
05:24:52 <comex> i wonder whether it would be advisable to have skip
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06:45:32 <Gracenotes> goin to the DMV tomorrow
06:45:33 <Gracenotes> woo
06:45:45 <Gracenotes> so excited
06:53:23 <Sgeo> `slist
06:53:28 <HackEgo> slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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07:02:27 <kmc> hello friends
07:06:28 <Sgeo> Gah
07:06:44 <Sgeo> HexChat's current color for joins is what I'm used to for quits and parts
07:07:19 <oerjan> fizzie: it looks like they didn't see any better solution than rebooting the server that had problems yesterday (initially with accessing the NFS mail directory, but the problem escalated quickly)
07:07:36 <kmc> is HexChat the official IRC client of Hexham
07:07:45 <oerjan> i'd assume so
07:07:51 <fizzie> oerjan: Well, it is a solution, of course.
07:08:04 <Sgeo> night all
07:08:20 <Gracenotes> "When two vehicles meet on a steep road where neither vehicle can pass, the vehicle facing downhill must yield the right-of-way by backing up until the vehicle going uphill can pass."
07:08:33 <Gracenotes> it's almost a setup to a joke
07:08:55 <Gracenotes> Also, if you're reversing, that makes you a vehicle going uphill, so the process can continue recursively
07:10:01 <kmc> :O
07:10:17 <fizzie> Favourite traffic rules trick question for the Finnish exam (which is mostly based on asking questions about pictures): set up a straight-forward looking scenario, but put a tram behind a bush somewhere on the left, so that a small corner is peeking out.
07:10:39 <fizzie> (As an exception to the general rule, trams here have right-of-way disregarding the approach direction.)
07:10:44 <oerjan> hm reminds me of a norwegian comedy sketch (from a show which i vaguely recall was based on a british one), although the road there was flat afair
07:11:50 <oerjan> based on "Hancock's Half Hour" says no.wikipedia
07:11:54 <Gracenotes> the DMV knows physics, too
07:12:15 <Gracenotes> "The force of a 60 mph crash is not just twice as great as 30 mph crash; it's four times as great!"
07:12:30 <fizzie> Does the DMV know psychics?
07:12:59 <Gracenotes> Based on this manual, they did not anticipate you asking
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07:20:27 <kmc> trams are good because you know they aren't going to suddenly swerve and run you over
07:21:42 <oerjan> which makes it even more dangerous when they do anyway hth
07:22:19 <shachaf> TRAAAAAMS
07:22:59 <kmc> does it cost a lot of money to get a driving license in finland or no
07:23:49 <Gracenotes> I can't imagine most public services costing a lot of money in finland
07:23:59 <shachaf> doesn't it cost a lot of time at least
07:24:05 <shachaf> "so i heard"
07:24:14 <Gracenotes> finland is just one big cult
07:25:23 <shachaf> is #esoteric a cult
07:25:44 <kmc> who is the cult leader of #esoteric
07:25:58 <shachaf> well, i follow zzo38
07:26:16 <shachaf> but i wouldn't call him a cult leader, really
07:26:29 <Gracenotes> who says cults have leaders?
07:26:32 <shachaf> just an inspiration
07:26:35 <Gracenotes> the leader? pssh.
07:27:08 <oerjan> we're an ineffective cult because our leaders are so lazy
07:27:31 <shachaf> perhaps #esoteric is a cocult
07:27:36 <shachaf> (not to be confused with the occult)
07:27:45 <shachaf> there's an initial object but no terminal object
07:27:46 <Gracenotes> TINC
07:28:17 -!- oerjan has set topic: The cocult (not to be confused with the occult) channel | <3 | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
07:28:32 <shachaf> #esoteric on irc.dahl.net is presumably the occult channel?
07:28:37 <oerjan> presumably.
07:30:59 <Gracenotes> Never make a U-turn: [...] On a one-way street.
07:32:51 <oerjan> good advice
07:34:48 <shachaf> Eh.
07:34:54 <shachaf> Depends on which way you start.
07:35:39 <Gracenotes> Yes, if you are driving in the wrong direction on a one way street, you are required to immediately pull to the side of the road, stop, panic, and turn around when safe.
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07:41:49 <Gracenotes> For instruction on backing up, there are separate bullet points for "your kids" and "other children".
07:43:17 <shachaf> Well, presumably each person is responsible for backing up their own kids.
07:43:35 <shachaf> You shouldn't even have read access to other children.
07:44:14 <Gracenotes> Evidently you are required to have executable access to directories of other children.
07:46:27 <Gracenotes> 'If another drive does not him his or her lights: [...] Do not try to "get back" at the other driver by keeping your bright lights on. If you do, both of you may be blinded.' --Gandhi
07:46:36 <Gracenotes> *dim
07:49:01 <kmc> haha
07:50:05 <Gracenotes> kmc: have you a driver's license? in the great state of CA, even?
07:50:28 <shachaf> what about a train license
07:50:49 <kmc> Gracenotes: no
07:51:27 <Gracenotes> Confused people are also exemplified as "Tourists, often at complicated intersections" and "Drivers who are looking for a house number or who slow down for no apparent reason"
07:52:02 <Gracenotes> Compare this to merely distracted people, who may include: Delivery persons, Construction workers, Children (who often run into the street without looking), etc.
07:52:19 <Gracenotes> Really, why are children so stupid?
07:52:27 <shachaf> tourists enter, one wrist leaves
07:52:51 <shachaf> very strange folks
07:56:15 <kmc> should i go to finland again
07:56:46 <shachaf> yes
07:56:52 <Gracenotes> "If you drive for sight-seeing purposes to the scene of a fire, collision, or other disaster, you may be arrested."
07:58:08 <Gracenotes> "Horse-drawn vehicles and riders of horses or other animals are entitled to share the road with motor vehicles. It is a traffic offense to scare horses or stampede livestock."
08:00:26 <Gracenotes> Hm. Interesting: cyclists are required to carry identification
08:03:58 <Gracenotes> More fun information: you may not use your cellphone, even hands-free, "to engage in distracting conversations"
08:05:09 <Gracenotes> You will all be tested on this.
08:05:49 <kmc> do the medical marijuana test next
08:06:44 <Gracenotes> what's the condition that can be easily claimed to 'pass' such a test, due I think to lack of easy falsifiability?
08:06:44 <kmc> "do you want some marijuana? y/n"
08:09:33 <Gracenotes> Apparently, there is such a thing. Which, I understand, is actually pretty common.
08:10:58 <kmc> ?
08:15:40 <Gracenotes> "Do not shoot firearms on a highway or at traffic signs."
08:16:00 <kmc> haha
08:16:16 <kmc> stop signs out in the desert have a lot of shotgun holes in them
08:16:30 <Gracenotes> There is also such a thing as "illegally tinted safety glasses"
08:16:49 <Gracenotes> And, not to mention, "Vehicles taking part in a funeral procession have the right-of-way"
08:17:17 <shachaf> or is it the rite-of-way?
08:17:48 <fizzie> The driving schools are, I think, relatively expensive.
08:18:02 <fizzie> Yet I think most go that way.
08:18:05 <Gracenotes> in Finland?
08:18:08 <fizzie> Yes.
08:18:20 <fizzie> But if you have an accommodating parent or some such, it would technically be possible for them to acquire a permit to teach someone.
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08:20:29 <fizzie> The Goatse School of Driving -- so (colloquially) named because of their logo: http://www.haaganautokoulu.fi/wp-content/themes/thematic/img/header.jpg -- seems to charge a total of 1630 euros, of which the major part (1190 eur) is 17 * 50 minutes of driving instruction.
08:21:03 <fizzie> (But these are of course all private places.)
08:21:19 <kmc> nice logo
08:22:51 <fizzie> Many high schools (incl. mine) have a special deal with a driving school such that there's a course you can sign up to, which includes the theory part (possibly you even got one course credit point for it), and probably you get a discount for the driving lessons.
08:23:03 <fizzie> (I did that thing.)
08:28:18 <oerjan> hm in norway you don't need a permit to teach someone to drive, as long as you're not paid. but there are experience requirements and stuff.
08:29:29 <oerjan> and it's considered unreasonably expensive to get enough training solely from professionals.
08:30:06 <fizzie> oerjan: Apparently the union of driving schools has a strong lobbying presence here, and there's been some controversy about it.
08:30:19 <shachaf> hmm the topic needs higher codepoints
08:30:23 -!- shachaf has set topic: The cocult (not to be confused with the occult) channel | ♥ | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D.
08:31:03 <fizzie> E.g. claims that they've made the private-person teaching needlessly difficult/expensive, and funded bogus "research" on how professional driving education improves safety, and so on.
08:31:52 <oerjan> ah.
08:32:11 <fizzie> Also it seems that they've changed the requirements for that teaching permit in 2013 to be even more difficult, and the process of getting one now costs like 3000 eur, which doesn't make it any cheaper than just going to a regular school.
08:32:17 <fizzie> Or so I gather from fi.wikipedia.
08:32:44 <fizzie> Funny, I didn't really know it was such a controversial topic; I've thought "well, that's very expensive, but I guess that's the way it is" once or twice and that's it.
08:33:19 <Gracenotes> I was able to get 20 hours worth of driving school free in high school in the United States.
08:33:37 <Gracenotes> Due to some program or another, though; I forget the details.
08:33:43 <Gracenotes> And it was a private school.
08:34:03 <fizzie> I think we just got the theory part for free in the program I mentioned. Then again, we don't really pay for the schools, so...
08:34:36 <Gracenotes> The instructor occasionally asked me to drive to shopping centers, where he left me standing in the car for up to 5 minutes to pick up food or prescriptions etc...
08:35:06 <Gracenotes> So it was not exactly entirely professional.
08:41:45 <oerjan> oh btw i made ais523's concurrency construct in haskell maybe some others would like to see it http://lpaste.net/90816
08:41:54 <oerjan> (not tested, as usual)
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11:04:31 <ion> http://low.fi/~viznut/loremipsum-google.txt
11:11:50 <elliott> "CIA let KSM design vacuum cleaner in detention to 'keep him sane'"
11:14:28 <quintopia> hi elliott
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11:26:27 <elliott> all this pen stuff in the backlog is reminding me of http://artisanalpencilsharpening.com
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11:28:17 <fizzie> It's reminding me of Pen Island.
11:28:32 <fizzie> (They are very passionate about pens too.)
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12:24:54 <olsner_> "hi"
12:41:07 <ion> fizzie: Their website is full of gems.
12:41:42 <ion> Many of our customers prefer to take on two or even three types of wood for one project.
12:42:10 <ion> Q: Can I provide my own wood? A: In most cases we can handle your wood. We do require all shipments to be clean, free of parasites and pass all standard customs inspections.
12:45:53 <fizzie> Yeah.
12:45:54 <fizzie> "Whether all you want is a simple skinny white pen (it's our best seller!) or something wrapped in leather or little pink bows, we've done it all. Even pens dipped in chocolate!"
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13:28:02 <ion> http://news.err.ee/politics/0233b688-b116-44c3-98ca-89a4057acad8 https://github.com/vvk-ehk/evalimine/blob/master/ivote-server/hes/vote_analyzer.py
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14:18:47 <AnotherTest> ion: I saw that. Note also how their code is extremely not documented
14:19:09 <AnotherTest> This somehow has to be an elaborate prank...
14:21:12 <AnotherTest> the estonian prime-minister is pulling a hoax
14:34:48 <fizzie> There is a "House of Elliott" brand necklace for sale here at the post office.
14:35:11 <elliott> buy it
14:35:44 <fizzie> It costs like 32.90.
14:37:56 <elliott> 32 isn't much moneys for an elliott
14:38:03 <fizzie> I took a picture of it, that's like the next best thing.
14:38:22 <fizzie> Now I must shopping.
14:58:12 <itsy> Wait, what was that? The Post Office sells necklaces?
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15:05:23 <Taneb> We're co cult? What does that mean
15:10:42 <fizzie> itsy: They have one shelf of "miscellaneous crap".
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15:13:04 <jsvine> Good morning, #esoteric
15:13:25 <Taneb> Hi
15:13:48 <jsvine> Anything exciting lately in the world of esolangs?
15:14:54 <Taneb> I don't know, I haven't been online much recently
15:15:22 <jsvine> Yeah, I had to check out for a couple of weeks to focus on another project; now trying to catch up :)
15:16:56 <fizzie> elliott: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20130712-house_of_elliott.jpg http://www.houseofelliott.fi/?lang=en
15:17:00 <fizzie> (Sorry, that's not at all "exciting -- in the world of esolangs".)
15:18:23 <ion> Which one is elliott? http://www.houseofelliott.fi/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/etu_2013_11.jpg
15:18:40 <Taneb> http://www.elliottsurveyors.co.uk/background.html
15:19:15 <fizzie> ion: I think the one with the hat.
15:21:30 <ion> http://heh.fi/tmp/elliott-is.png
15:22:19 <Taneb> Notethe location stated in my link
15:22:51 <elliott> Taneb: nice
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15:33:27 <jsvine> Anyone have thoughts on http://torso.me/chicken?
15:33:45 <ion> jsvine: chicken chicken.
15:35:23 <jsvine> (Oh and a reminder to anyone who doesn't know/remember: I'm a WSJ reporter working on a potential story on esoteric programming languages. Feel free to DM me, or email me at jsvine@gmail.com if you'd like to chat privately.)
15:36:30 <jsvine> chicken
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15:51:26 <tromp__> chicken is a run of the mill 10 instruction stack language that achieves humor and silly-ness by denoting instruction i as i chicken's followed by a newline (AFAICT)
15:54:38 <fizzie> I know that oerjan's thoughts on chicken are: "lovely"
15:54:53 <tswett> I just realized that the word "florin" strongly suggests the color pink to me.
15:54:55 <fizzie> (The topic was broached on channel 2013-07-02.)
15:55:50 <tromp__> chicken is like a poultrified whitespace
15:55:57 <fizzie> I don't know how funny the language was, but the interpreter was nice.
15:56:33 <tswett> Is there some word for some shade of pink that begins with the "flor" sound?
15:57:33 <tswett> I guess fuchsia begins with "f".
15:58:34 <tswett> So do "fire engine red" and "fluorescent" anything. I think it's fair to say that fuchsia is the effiest color.
15:59:21 <Taneb> Perhaps youconnectit to floral
15:59:45 <tswett> That sounds likely, except that flowers aren't necessarily pink.
16:02:17 <tswett> I've always associated the musical note F with pink as well.
16:02:27 <tswett> And then G is green. I guess the reason for that seems pretty obvious.
16:03:00 <fizzie> fcolor of 25 images says the color of "florin" is #756156.
16:03:28 <fizzie> (Most of those images were of coins, and then quite a few of Florin Court, the building that's the fictional Whitehaven Mansions where Hercule Poirot lives in the TV series.)
16:03:37 <tswett> C is like a dark blue. "Cobalt", I guess? D is also green. E is a lighter blue.
16:03:48 <tswett> A is yellow, and B, I dunno. Black?
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16:22:24 <zzo38> jsvine: Did you write that report?
16:24:34 <jsvine> zzo38: Which report?
16:25:09 <zzo38> jsvine: The one about esoteric programming.
16:25:39 <jsvine> zzo38: Ah, no, got pulled off into another project. Now back and continuing to research.
16:26:17 <jsvine> tromp__: For my unlearned sake, could you explain "run of the mill 10 instruction stack language"?
16:26:28 <zzo38> If you have any questions I will try to answer them (or possibly, others can try, too).
16:29:50 <jsvine> Thanks. I'm mostly trying to figure out the narrative. I'd really like to get "the human factor", e.g., someone trying to write a complex program in Piet, or some esolang-programming competition, or someone trying to puzzle through the complexities of creating a new esolang...
16:30:44 <zzo38> Let me see if I have something...
16:31:19 <zzo38> You can try looking at some of Chris Pressey's stuff, possibly
16:31:44 <zzo38> If you are wondering about creating a new esolang, that is
16:32:31 <AnotherTest> jsvine: not sure what this is about, but here are some languages I found nice esolangs.org/wiki/User:AnotherTest/Notable_Language
16:32:58 <jsvine> Ah, thanks. I've been in touch a bit with Chris, but I'll pressey him again for more details
16:34:00 <jsvine> AnotherTest: Thanks! I like that list.
16:34:23 <zzo38> Yes, look at INTERCAL.
16:34:38 <tromp__> jsvine: see the list of instructions at http://torso.me/chicken-spec
16:35:27 <jsvine> tromp__: Ah, helpful!
16:35:30 <tromp__> it's the usual variety of stack manipulation instructions; arithmetic, load/store, input, output
16:37:56 <zzo38> A few esolangs (although not the ones in that list) are uncomputable, such as Gravity and TwoDucks, as well as some others.
16:38:51 <zzo38> When inventing esolangs, we don't normally care about the things that you should normally care about when inventing a programming language.
16:39:09 <tromp__> you could also write each of brainf*ck's 8 instructions with 1 to 8 chickens followed by newline, and presto, you have a new language "chickenf*ck"
16:39:42 <jsvine> zzo38: right and that's part of what I find so interesting about esolangs
16:40:53 <zzo38> jsvine: Yes, I do too.
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16:49:39 <zzo38> Did you look at the list of ideas?
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16:51:20 <jsvine1> Which list of ideas?
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16:55:50 <tromp__> Ook! is an example of a language that's just a thin syntax veneer layer over Brainfuck
16:56:48 <tromp__> What's shocking is that such languages make it into articles like http://net.tutsplus.com/articles/top-10-most-bizarre-programming-languages/
17:00:05 <jsvine1> Right. I think I'll want to note that a whole bunch of the silly esolangs all belong to a single family, and that the innovation there is in humor rather than computer science.
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17:02:27 <zzo38> Yes, that is it.
17:02:41 <zzo38> However , the list of ideas is: http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas
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17:04:40 <jsvine1> zzo38: Oh, that's great. I'm hopping out to lunch in a second, but will read this when I get back.
17:04:52 <zzo38> OK
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17:06:32 <oerjan> <elliott> all this pen stuff in the backlog is reminding me of http://artisanalpencilsharpening.com <-- is that supposed to have an innocuous splitup as well, because i cannot see it.
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17:07:26 <elliott> well it has "anal" in it. but I think it's rather higher-concept than that.
17:08:29 <oerjan> O KAY
17:09:23 <oerjan> part of that modern mainstream junk theory that art _should_ be disturbing i assume.
17:09:59 <oerjan> sorry, *postmodern
17:10:53 <elliott> wat
17:12:04 <oerjan> angkor.
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17:33:08 <Deewiant> oerjan: "artisanal" is a word
17:35:53 <oerjan> fancy
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17:46:11 <jsvine> What ever happened to the Esoteric Awards? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Esoteric_Awards
17:46:42 <AnotherTest> too much brainfuck equivalents?
17:46:45 <AnotherTest> nah, I don't know
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17:50:38 <Jafet> @wn artis
17:50:40 <lambdabot> No match for "artis".
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18:43:50 <Bike_> http://24.media.tumblr.com/94d571eb3fe44125c6475b11e752da81/tumblr_mifzfvSJkG1qiyf4wo1_1280.jpg
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18:57:31 <fizzie> @wn artsd
18:57:32 <lambdabot> *** "artsd" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
18:57:32 <lambdabot> ArtsD
18:57:32 <lambdabot> n 1: an honorary arts degree [syn: {Doctor of Arts}, {ArtsD}]
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18:58:26 <Bike> haha.
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19:21:58 <elliott> oerjan: hi how is the featured language selection process going
19:23:34 <oerjan> um nonexistently
19:23:55 <shachaf> is danish on the list
19:24:02 <oerjan> nope
19:24:34 <shachaf> `run cp bin/{empty,l}list
19:24:43 <HackEgo> No output.
19:24:49 -!- jsvine has joined.
19:24:50 <shachaf> `run echo danish >> bin/llist
19:24:52 <elliott> oerjan: but I assigned you to it!
19:24:53 <HackEgo> No output.
19:24:56 <elliott> :'(
19:25:05 <shachaf> elliott: I assign you to fix 183.
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19:47:18 <shachaf> 12:46 -!- #rust You must have a registered nick (+r) to talk on this channel (#rust)
19:47:24 <shachaf> kmc: :'(
19:48:20 <shachaf> do i have to register on random irc things now
19:48:30 <Gracenotes> it's a cabal
19:48:35 <Taneb> "art is anal pencil sharpenings" hth
19:48:52 <shachaf> Oh, it was jsut temporary.
19:49:00 <Gracenotes> also, have you noticed, there are very few men's belts at most stores with size <32
19:49:16 <Gracenotes> despite the fact that I think most men have waist size <32
19:49:38 <Gracenotes> It seems the prior of 'needing a belt' shifts the distribution substantially
19:50:15 <Taneb> My main belt (getting a bit old now) actually had an extra hole put into it for me
19:50:36 <Gracenotes> Yes, I recently bought another main belt, so to speak.
19:50:39 <shachaf> main is not usually a belt
19:51:12 <Taneb> And I would say that tall and skinny people need belts more but I am perhaps biased
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19:51:35 <kmc> yeah i have put holes in belts on several occasions
19:51:38 <Gracenotes> shachaf: what else is main? a function? pssh
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19:51:56 <Gracenotes> don't be ridiculous
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19:52:55 <Taneb> belt :: IO ()
19:54:33 <Taneb> Now to get ice cream and also beer
19:55:26 <Gracenotes> Next think you'll be telling me there's a belt called _start
19:55:31 <Gracenotes> thing, even!
19:58:24 <Fiora> Gracenotes: my guess is that maybe there's few small ones because the small ones sell first
19:58:49 <Taneb> Ooh, good thinking
19:58:54 <Fiora> it's just like with jeans, like, last time I remember shopping for them there were so many more of the larger sizes, like 7-9+
19:59:02 <Fiora> and the smaller sizes had much smaller stacks
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20:13:23 <Gracenotes> but there would be smaller stacks, probably
20:13:33 <Gracenotes> I think one of the belt selections I saw had labelled stacks!
20:13:46 <Gracenotes> anywho, to catch bus thing
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21:07:42 <Vorpal> I would HIGHLY recommend the humble weekly sale this time. It includes Avernum, one of my favorite game series of all time, also one of the first series I ever played.
21:07:54 <Vorpal> The windows only installments work fine under wine for me.
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22:37:31 <Vorpal> Wow, been ages since I seen a game with a color depth option. It also says that 32 bits is "for newer PCs".
22:37:55 <Vorpal> Wait what, this game was released in 2009? Heh
22:41:18 <Fiora> Kingdom Hearts: Birth by Sleep has a 16-bit/32-bit color depth option, and that's pretty recent, I think
22:41:22 <Fiora> bizarrely enough... it's on the PSP.
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22:43:48 <Vorpal> Fiora, well the game I'm looking at is a Spiderweb Software RPG. They don't follow conventions when it comes to this stuff. Avernum 4 (released in 2006 on PC) has a old style blue background installer for example.
22:44:26 <Vorpal> Fiora, anyway I'm surprised a console/handheld game has graphics options at all
22:44:49 <Fiora> yeah, it's a very bizarre exception
22:44:56 <Vorpal> What need is there? They can know exactly how it will behave, unlike a PC where there are thousands of configurations.
22:45:07 <Fiora> it also has a CPU speed option, too
22:45:09 <Vorpal> If not hundred of thousands
22:45:13 <Fiora> like, you can pick between the stock 200mhz and the battery-eating 333mhz
22:45:20 <Vorpal> Heh
22:45:51 <Vorpal> My phone runs faster than that unless it is at the lowest frequency
22:46:01 <Fiora> the PSP's like, 10 years old now though XD
22:46:29 <Vorpal> Oh? I thought it was more like 5-6
22:46:49 <Fiora> Um... let me see
22:47:00 <Fiora> oh, it was released in japan december 2004
22:47:04 <Fiora> so um... 8.5 years?
22:47:21 <Vorpal> Also I have a quad core S3. IIRC it have steps of 100 from 200 MHz to 1.4 GHz with a few odd steps of 150 near the top or some such
22:47:25 <Vorpal> Huh
22:48:02 <Vorpal> No it is steps of 100
22:49:10 <Vorpal> There is also an overclocking step of 1704 MHz listed in the ROM setting thingy. (I'm using PACman which is a mix of CM, Paranoid and AKOP, though I believe this section is from AKOP)
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23:50:35 <Bike> kmc: http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~devdatta/papers/alice-in-warningland.pdf
23:52:20 <kmc> heh, what of it
23:55:38 <Bike> just thought it might interest you. it's empirical data on how many people click through security warnings.
23:57:32 <kmc> is it "all of them"
23:58:05 <Bike> nope, more like a third or a quarter.
23:58:17 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
23:58:27 <Fiora> those are like the really big THIS IS EVIL MALWARE warnings, right?
23:58:58 <Bike> yeah
23:59:11 <Bike> specifically mostly browsers' "yo you're getting phished dumbass" warnings
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