< 1374192287 450951 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of the graphics on Wikipedia are awesome. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/TMS_Butterfly_Coil_HEAD_.png < 1374193219 486559 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Backspace.jpg will always be the best < 1374193238 380479 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1374193276 96609 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Gineate < 1374193289 826283 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh...why < 1374193309 857501 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374193400 148803 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi mnoqy < 1374193409 570111 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1374193417 928509 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking forward to the ""super mega update"" this evening"? < 1374193428 803211 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :“”super mega update“” < 1374193435 542147 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1374193437 148228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :“”hi ion”“ < 1374193812 462908 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1374195080 864334 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374195421 37543 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374195465 647995 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking about how my next esoteric programming language will work ._. < 1374195504 594070 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need ideas :P < 1374195509 227170 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone brainstorm with me < 1374195539 509279 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should work on Braintrust 2 at some point < 1374195543 93039 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing morphogens imo < 1374195557 929732 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last language was Derplang. < 1374195564 133036 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :JesseH: Did you look at the list of ideas in the wiki? There are lot of things in there. < 1374195573 276287 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh I didnt know there was a such a thing. :P < 1374195575 725014 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link me! < 1374195603 896243 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Always compiling opcodes as though they were Braintrust, not , and having some kind of quine-ish operator < 1374195634 896183 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now I am picturing lines and lines of random numbers < 1374195635 163458 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That do stuff < 1374195641 676680 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dna.caltech.edu/courses/cs191/paperscs191/turing.pdf‎ i guess < 1374195648 653454 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of how that should work. < 1374195657 326055 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take the compiler stack out of the primitive compiler, so to speak < 1374195672 879004 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And put it into the code. Ideally recompiles should not grow the stack < 1374195674 721018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Why is the "f" mixed up? < 1374195679 28137 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats me. < 1374195687 223576 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dna.caltech.edu/courses/cs191/paperscs191/turing.pdf now? < 1374195688 50641 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND the language would ideally be simpler to describe than Braintrust < 1374195689 159241 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1374195694 827884 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it isn't mixed up. < 1374195695 364393 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, Can you link me to the ideas? < 1374195720 321030 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really ought to not base it on Brainfuck < 1374195724 21034 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas < 1374195726 328299 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a simple Scheme < 1374195739 66622 :Sgeo_!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know how to design a trivial Scheme-like language to act as a host for my ideas < 1374195811 423930 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about a language where compiled code should pass some randomness tests. < 1374195851 177446 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does malbolge actually look random? < 1374195857 673663 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about um... a language where you have to write multiple programs that interact (e.g. compete, like in a bfjoust?) except that the output of the language is determined by the results of those interactions < 1374195953 33211 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there even any long malbolge programs to test... < 1374195973 318094 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :('&%:9]!~}|z2Vxwv-,POqponl$Hjig%eB@@>a=_> < 1374205962 899235 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1374205967 461287 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not full time < 1374205970 680714 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1374205973 900665 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course not full time < 1374205986 876077 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you are not focusing on esolangs get the fuck out :P thats why I was gone for a month < 1374205993 317394 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean if you want to talk about esolangs here it's probably fine < 1374205993 852949 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I am back, because I want to write one :P < 1374206012 949195 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, y'know, we kind of prefer it this ay < 1374206014 60471 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's not a fuckin law that says < 1374206014 328236 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :*way < 1374206020 532596 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i don't stay in an irc channel constantly i can never come back. it's an oath thing < 1374206024 859438 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou shalt discuss esolangs < 1374206026 783976 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :after i nearly got eaten by that goat, but rescued < 1374206037 270794 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really better to be silent because the alternative is a fairly tightly-knit channel being off-topic :P < 1374206053 260364 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooodl, Try not to get too upset, i will be forced to use esoteric in any jokes used against you :P < 1374206058 429611 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i am always willing to talk about crabputers and computation in cells, fyi < 1374206059 537116 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and plenty of the stuff talked about falls under "if you liked esolangs, you might also like: ..." < 1374206066 932996 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :make an esolang based on crabputers < 1374206086 455938 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I am going to pick someone from here that is here because, and name a language after them. < 1374206109 873200 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me read through the logs and see who I can find < 1374206111 593111 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the person glogbot < 1374206117 347507 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a spider laid eggs under your skin, imagine how much worse itd be if it were a goose < 1374206125 971641 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nominate shachaf < 1374206169 406887 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does shachaf say a lot? < 1374206176 197365 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I love monoids" < 1374206180 67116 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they are so easy" < 1374206182 210965 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hi mnoqy" < 1374206185 924052 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck is monoids < 1374206192 392191 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what a monoid is? < 1374206193 465157 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a disease < 1374206216 788237 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yeah, I dropped out of highschool, bight me < 1374206221 379148 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a binary operation that is associative, and some other stuff i don't remember off the top of my head < 1374206222 520185 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will have to catch up on my math :P < 1374206225 735504 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bite* < 1374206232 205358 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Identity < 1374206238 445887 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that < 1374206243 863627 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :write that? < 1374206244 668510 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1374206250 329497 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to name a language Bike < 1374206275 871101 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance multiplication on the reals forms a monoid, since a(bc) = (ab)c and 1a = a and so on < 1374206283 57448 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example "bike x = 1; bicycle x;" < 1374206294 595102 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will print 1 < 1374206318 772493 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is just changing up names and shit < 1374206325 742192 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to actually make something that is different < 1374206332 515380 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :string concatenation also forms a monoid, "hell" ++ ("o " ++ "world") = ("hell" ++ "o ") ++ "world" and "" is identity. < 1374206337 451183 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though concatenation isn't commutative, see. < 1374206361 259228 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am trying to think of some complex thing that would be used when writing code < 1374206377 527991 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of shit :P < 1374206405 85046 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not look at a language you haven't used before, that's outside your usual paradigms < 1374206414 266504 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good idea < 1374206417 215663 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like haskell or SNOBOL (these are obviously comparable) < 1374206429 332334 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will look at haskell < 1374206436 668248 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or no < 1374206438 543288 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNOBOL < 1374206449 30551 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear about haskell all day from hipster fags < 1374206450 907702 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offense < 1374206465 114 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use "fag" derogatorily kthx < 1374206469 812020 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gay < 1374206479 295328 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then? < 1374206484 732543 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come back? < 1374206488 620613 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no pun intended) < 1374206488 888747 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok. < 1374206519 20116 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a language for a specific purpose < 1374206541 819504 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, snobol is for weird linguistics stuff and being incomprheensible. it's perfect. < 1374206607 759111 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I am just going to write something, and ill share it with you all later < 1374206618 482526 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea isnt really that interesting, but meh < 1374206681 59072 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually very hard to come up with interesting esolangs ideas < 1374206714 331405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooodl: That is why we have list of idea in wiki, write many things, see what seem interesting to you, etc < 1374206715 671974 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is also part of the reason you can't discuss esolangs 24/7 < 1374206739 185498 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right JesseH could look at that < 1374206743 524138 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea is simple; Can be a fun experiment to try with different escape codes and colors and shit < 1374206759 649359 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : don't use "fag" derogatorily kthx <--- i agree with this, also I don't think it matters if you're gay, also i'm an op < 1374206783 726416 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna do that in your own channel, fine, but it's against the community norms here < 1374206796 31672 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Honestly if I get banned, I will go talk about this in my channel, its not that bad. < 1374206801 163536 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1374206802 505474 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dont get your panties in a bunch < 1374206806 591964 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggest not taking that attitude < 1374206808 198682 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1374206808 467386 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not....... < 1374206810 205959 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1374206812 388001 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye? < 1374206819 202881 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1374206826 511584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it your claim that any attempt by communities to set tone in any way constitutes "getting your panties in a bunch" < 1374206841 871122 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought Bike and I were being reasonably polite with our requests < 1374206844 327681 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over what I said? I dont think it was even worth mentioning that you are op. < 1374206850 764777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolls eyes < 1374206860 189361 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omergerd attitude! sin sin ban him < 1374206866 395400 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok please shut up < 1374206868 281291 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :about this < 1374206869 355342 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting sick of you < 1374206870 728215 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1374206879 14730 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really not endearing < 1374206879 220801 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have done so much wrong in this community. < 1374206903 987451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we like change the topic < 1374206905 598081 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nice < 1374206908 47919 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never used the term "old fags" or something similar before? < 1374206914 368112 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1374206915 73224 NAMES :#esoteric < 1374206917 318645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm aware of this usage < 1374206922 451398 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi about the topic-changing < 1374206922 987899 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye JesseH < 1374206924 327228 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, then why are you upset? < 1374206926 203518 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :peace < 1374206927 810207 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :can that happen < 1374206930 795210 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1374206935 390169 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :kmc > 1374206935 412657 NAMES :#esoteric < 1374206936 999168 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you laters < 1374206937 531541 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com KICK #esoteric JesseH :JesseH < 1374206937 737997 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you want to change this topic anyways? < 1374206947 80033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com MODE #esoteric -o :kmc > 1374206947 102538 NAMES :#esoteric < 1374206947 924350 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow kmc < 1374206956 240225 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing my spotlight < 1374206957 870031 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you shouldn't KICK to everyone too much please < 1374206959 243237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1374206974 999939 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric +v :kmc > 1374206975 11599 NAMES :#esoteric < 1374206977 414961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -o :elliott > 1374206977 425255 NAMES :#esoteric < 1374206994 772036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want to spend an hour explaining to a hostile person that "being aware of this usage" and "thinking it's totally fine" are different < 1374207015 437735 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ain't complainin < 1374207031 723171 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well anyway, i was thinking it would be kinda nice if there was somewhere like #esoteric but for neuroscience instead of CS, so i could be a weirdo for being a naïve realist instead of watching you all be weirdos for being constructivists < 1374207035 10905 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can dream < 1374207054 7403 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't mind more talk of neuroscience here < 1374207059 939099 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that soliton stuff was super interesting < 1374207062 377995 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if totally crackpot < 1374207065 361921 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the problem with "#esoteric for $subject" is that it is inevitably #esoteric < 1374207073 555796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way to escape the gravitational pull < 1374207073 823252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want to be realist of constructivists? I don't think that is necessarily the only choices! < 1374207123 606711 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well if there were any more biologists you'd drive them out with your hostile attitude!! < 1374207175 606790 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: thankfully crackpots are impervious to criticism (boom) < 1374207195 229376 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, snap < 1374207212 618050 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah kinda wish i knew more about it but http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/5/e/c/5ec607907b2588dc038c1ef0168475dc.png is rather intimidating < 1374207241 212131 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean so are the nine or whatever equations you need for hodgkin but who's counting < 1374207257 998039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :\rainbow{PARTIAL DIFFERENTIAL EQUATIONS} < 1374207283 473450 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an entire book on computational modeling of neurons from the 80s, and all the code is in incomprehensible fortran < 1374207286 960373 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :very #esoteric imo < 1374207310 770404 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love incomprehensible fortran < 1374207353 202524 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in something halfway between standards and it only ran on the guy's institution's computers it's horrible < 1374207362 362125 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i transcribed a bit http://mnxmnkmnd.tumblr.com/post/30986287342/ < 1374207427 296001 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is your opinion about free will? I think there are two kinds of free will. < 1374207435 584946 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 zzo38 < 1374207438 875991 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you like hugs? < 1374207446 196296 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, compatabilism? < 1374207450 736231 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except spelled correctly < 1374207455 378296 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs! < 1374207465 119103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Sometimes, but it isn't hug in internet anyways < 1374207472 467424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1374207478 155088 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like internet hugs and also real hugs < 1374207516 111911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: That is one of the kinds of free will, not both. < 1374207517 148234 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs kmc < 1374207528 523170 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the other kind..... incompatibilism < 1374207532 543018 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, maybe. < 1374207539 813617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes, I suppose so. < 1374207557 91220 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs Fiora < 1374207594 495052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I did find some other Lisp system in C, called LYSP (which stands for "50 Years of Symbolic Processing"). < 1374207598 16767 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main problem with free will is that i argued about it way too much when i was a fifteen year old atheist and now i just groan and clutch my head when someone brings it up < 1374207606 359005 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't lysp by the maru guy? that's pretty good < 1374207633 674883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: That is the problem of you I think... Are you atheist now, or agnostic? < 1374207653 883468 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :atheist i guess < 1374207660 647197 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is a problem of me < 1374207669 876634 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that's a good acronym < 1374207682 778252 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the maru guy...... like the guy with the cat?? < 1374207696 789412 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language maru which is named after the cat < 1374207704 987978 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1374207706 867765 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good cat though < 1374207710 619749 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 that cat < 1374207733 638651 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, I thought it is "Marumegane" which is with round glasses. < 1374207765 450575 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually maru itself is self-hosting based on C, so you could look at that < 1374207774 142909 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of ugly macrology but it has gc and all < 1374207778 509523 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rust is self hosting < 1374207781 998012 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK I will look at that too < 1374207782 203985 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unclear whether this makes any sense < 1374207788 165122 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there's uh < 1374207796 281110 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except as a way to make the language / compiler developers care about whether the language is good < 1374207813 638711 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the memory pool system has a nice neat scheme implementation with gc hooks and all < 1374207847 999374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Do you have the URL to look at it? < 1374207866 730936 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the scheme specifically? let me check their source control, i've never looked at it online < 1374207876 900761 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. it's on github now. stand by < 1374207900 374246 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/Ravenbrook/mps-temporary/tree/master/example/scheme < 1374207974 750572 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess the fundamental problem with neural simulation is that neurons are hilariously nonlinear. < 1374207993 728086 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1374208005 886904 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlinear doesn't even begin to describe it < 1374208032 912792 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's what i was trying to get across with "hilariously" but i guess i probably use that word too much < 1374208038 43054 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlinearest < 1374208093 664357 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the neural simulation book has like four pages of code for simulating a single neuron with a dendritic tree with spines, it's fucking nuts < 1374208161 853045 :noooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374208442 155849 :augur__!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374208494 287867 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374208586 216516 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MPS is cool < 1374208604 279582 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah they upgraded their site to not look like shit too < 1374208620 188539 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good i guess < 1374208626 349452 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it use twitter bootstrap now < 1374208631 747374 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1374209096 515477 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374209499 517613 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374209627 395645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :twitter dongstrap < 1374210020 806045 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: btw, another soliton v. hh thing that was mentioned in a review but i didn't think of - solitons don't account for how ion channel blockers like TTX do their poisonous thing < 1374210048 609734 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_National_Liberation_Army < 1374210062 107642 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really not sure whether this counts as embarrassing or not < 1374210085 818660 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In January 2008 two men, Wayne Cook and Steven Robinson were convicted in Manchester of sending miniature bottles of vodka " < 1374210292 641206 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In February 2007, SNLA involvement was claimed in the fatal Grayrigg derailment of a Virgin train traveling from London to Glasgow. A points failure was later found to be responsible. Preliminary investigation indicated that there was probably no sabotage." < 1374211186 396621 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Scottish Separatist Group (SSG) has been described as the political wing of the SNLA. The SSG was formed in 1995 by former members and supporters of the SNLA. Both groups want to reverse English immigration into Scotland and promote Gaelic as the country’s national language." oh my god < 1374211195 172289 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just trying so hard to be the scottish ira < 1374211227 591690 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :man that's sad < 1374211233 745548 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pass that referendum and be done with it < 1374211298 315315 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how spoken is gaelic anyway < 1374211302 407797 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who the hell actually wants to speak gaelic < 1374211304 286026 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :also isn't gaelic a language family not a language < 1374211313 476146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there's a scottish language in that family, though < 1374211328 18715 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, when they say "gaelic" they mean "scottish gaelic" < 1374211329 92790 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :gaelic is what the scottish version's called < 1374211340 857973 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's confusing! < 1374211344 611190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean in theory it's 'scots gaelic' but everyone just calls it gaelic < 1374211370 464455 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 2001 census of Scotland showed that a total of 58,652 (1.2% of the Scottish population aged over three years old)[6] in Scotland could speak Gaelic at that time" i'm uh, not sure this is gonna work, peeps < 1374211395 471855 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i guess algeria's the same way, really. < 1374211444 545561 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what england has done to scotland called "colonialism" < 1374211504 966959 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i've ever heard someone calling it that < 1374211508 496096 :augur__!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net NICK :augur < 1374211540 641664 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess there probably haven't been colonies. < 1374211550 768697 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374211578 792014 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much point in establishing a colony in the country immediately north of you < 1374211626 144874 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering what you call suppression of minority languages/cultures outside of a colonial context. beinganassism < 1374211747 736078 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened in algeria < 1374211765 984094 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it was a french colony until like the 60s. < 1374211772 952581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :linguistically, i mean < 1374211798 232663 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically they still speak a whole lot of french despite the government's efforts to restore arabic and berber < 1374211829 496774 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :french has no official status there, and it has the most french speakers of any country, that sort of thing < 1374211841 70149 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :France gave up their other colonies but they maintained for a while that Algeria was an integral part of France < 1374211848 847572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1374211854 367784 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's, like, right there, man" < 1374211881 600862 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we get rid of it we'll be all lopsided across the mediterranean < 1374211943 436765 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in battle for algiers the french commander basically says "it's not my job to care why we're doing this, it's up to the voters back home" < 1374211946 515146 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty great < 1374211994 917705 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do remember that 'french military history' page mentioning that the french claim the algerian civil war or war of liberation or whatever they decided to call it a victory for france < 1374212010 631995 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1374212053 293720 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm imagining a french spokesperson being like "well we did better than portgual right" < 1374212092 24695 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The French consider the departure of the French from Algeria in 1962-63, after 130 years on colonialism, as a French victory and especially consider C. de Gaulle as a hero for 'leading' said victory over the unwilling French public who were very much against the departure. This ended their colonialism. About 2 million ungrateful Algerians lost their lives in this shoddy affair." < 1374212097 118377 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the actual quote) < 1374212119 188374 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. wow. < 1374212175 917784 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of Wang B-machine? I can consider a variant where the instructions are encoded as basic blocks instead. < 1374212195 438717 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wang tiling? < 1374212217 865322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it is something different < 1374212246 891525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think they are named after the same person < 1374212441 693721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[I]n 1966, Robert Berger ... show[ed] how to translate any Turing machine into a set of Wang tiles that tiles the plane if and only if the Turing machine does not halt." This seems like strange and I like this too. < 1374212463 466111 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you would. < 1374212701 723669 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it must be Turing complete, then. < 1374212713 853847 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1374212744 151524 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wang B-machine is also Turing complete. < 1374212756 675366 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1374212995 627184 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-217-113-3.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1374213038 398334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the Wang B-machine basic blocks could then even be made in another way, such as a tuple. < 1374213136 452090 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be a set of integers, a integer, and two labels. < 1374213203 316469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the smallest Turing-complete sequent calculus? < 1374213404 421744 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1374213486 763512 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374213740 503243 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374213745 361196 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My new language! It has begun! < 1374213782 820390 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called ">_>". http://hastebin.com/vedomobomo | That will output < 1374213783 622520 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1374213784 722238 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1374213841 984352 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, Ill be on my channel if someone would like to chat about it, or anything about esoteric programming languages for that matter! PM me for details, later! < 1374213845 503414 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PART #esoteric :"github.com/jessehorne" < 1374213861 505151 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol. < 1374213870 215088 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374213967 414002 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to hate him but he's so good-natured < 1374213974 468007 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like if taneb made a brainfuck derivative < 1374213992 610739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`smlist (413) < 1374213999 45673 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :smlist (413): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy < 1374214342 181390 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374215019 887370 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1374215562 176931 :intosh!~intosh@staticline41658.toya.net.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1374216069 948454 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374216072 895771 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/SLang < 1374216278 340862 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PART #esoteric :"github.com/jessehorne" < 1374217050 393202 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1374218289 406374 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you were unable to get Uber to confirm a Google Voice number, right? < 1374218587 322035 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I think so. < 1374218634 685794 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I just messed something up. < 1374218992 611758 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uber? < 1374219118 276909 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1374220595 268441 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374221354 701166 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1374221580 561922 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374221855 924349 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1374223364 628331 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: That's kind of surprising. < 1374224033 657843 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374224067 131657 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How could this hash function be written in an esoteric lang? http://pastebin.com/fKLSat1m As you can see, the state of the hash function is made up of two 32-bit signed integers (a, b) that both start out as 0. < 1374224102 515146 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The input is a sequence of characters, drawn from 93 possibilities. Each character from the input is mixed into the state over a progression of 17 rounds and, when the last character has been mixed in, the result is just the final state of (a, b). < 1374224137 900403 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that addition and multiplication are unchecked (e.g. Int32.MaxValue+1 = Int32.MinValue, Int32.MaxValue*2 = -2) and division rounds towards 0 (e.g. -4/3 = -1, 7/3 = 2). In addition to the hash function, here is translated code to verify that a username/password combination is valid: http://pastebin.com/icX6HHrD < 1374224525 371189 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :daflixis: Which esoteric lang though? < 1374224541 338458 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeFull: Which would suit it best? < 1374224935 275598 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows < 1374224946 342252 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be possible to write in most of them < 1374224958 57709 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all are turing complete or have the ability to take input and output =P < 1374225014 576279 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :daflixis: what do you want by writing that hash function with an esolang (whichever it would be)? < 1374225067 798878 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think daflixis is just curious < 1374225072 181396 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUst interesting to see how it could be implemented < 1374225075 206475 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am curious < 1374225119 443219 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are several esolangs with a considerable support for bitwise operations, which many esolangs do not support. < 1374225178 892094 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :loop is a bit easier, though unusual control flow in general is one of the selling (hah!) point of many esolangs. < 1374225208 474201 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck on the other hand doesn't even have division < 1374225208 679984 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least you need an esolang with character I/O (need not to be buffered or interactive) though < 1374225238 228585 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so the original INTERCAL can't be used, but modern INTERCAL variants have character I/O) < 1374225297 207222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be reasonably trivial to implement that in Befunge, at least if you assume an implementation where the stack elements are "Int32"s. < 1374225312 714699 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just want to see how does typical(!) programs written in esolangs look like, then using a code generator like BFBASIC (BASIC to BF compiler) could be an option < 1374225320 139702 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that that would spoil much of the fun :p < 1374225359 226119 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Befunge-93 does not have bitwise operators though < 1374225392 502015 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: The function in question does not seem to need any. < 1374225414 461081 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it indeed doesn't have bitwise operators... < 1374225422 33410 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would be very simple < 1374225658 352244 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in befunge? < 1374225682 687570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You might need some extra work in '93 to store a 32-bit value on the playfield (the inner loop doesn't look terribly doable just on the stack, what with no rot), but that's about it. < 1374226048 897595 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could easily implement it in haskell, although it wouldn't be very esoteric =P < 1374226114 888804 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How in haskell? < 1374226256 94762 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you mentioned division, but it doesn't have any division =P < 1374226264 291121 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, nevermind, it does < 1374226659 630262 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea. < 1374227065 145532 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm tempted to write it in Funge-98, but I'm supposed to be working, and anyway it seems kind of a pointless exercise. < 1374227068 424073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inner loop in Funge-98 might look like 98+ > \:00g06-*01g+02g+\-00p:01g3/00g+03g+\-\ :#v_ -- assuming some pre-storing of constants, a and b on the playfield, and e on top of stack at start. < 1374227147 696052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably folded on two lines so that the _ is actually a | that goes directly to the >.) < 1374227198 120919 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :'*f8+738*+** for 0x74fa and 2'_6'+'@**+* for 0x81be < 1374227242 414905 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 2'ß4'@:**+* for 0x81be if non-ASCII is okay < 1374227330 183331 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Oh, man; I did Google for Fungify, but didn't seem to see any hits; should've just gone to your page; didn't realize it was there. < 1374227345 299272 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, not by *name*, I mean; I didn't remember the name.) < 1374227405 218806 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the most obvious name; you don't need to remember it, you can just come up with it and you'll be right. < 1374227478 559393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, with those constants inlined, something to the tune of http://sprunge.us/CfQJ perhaps. < 1374227483 112419 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Untested.) < 1374227527 407207 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I forgot a 1- from the loop, heh. < 1374227553 691367 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/hIdW then. "Whatever." < 1374228874 689378 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1374230512 523779 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1374230524 432786 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that incredibly dumb thing the coding horror guy did or said < 1374231110 795476 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1374232096 392248 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374232271 651572 :Sgeo!~Sgeo@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374233608 399114 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1374235498 694067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1374235819 456030 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`wiki list of ideas < 1374235823 780520 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: wiki: not found < 1374235829 752862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^wiki list of ideas < 1374235839 918170 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :...naturally. < 1374235845 414671 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie!!!!!!!!!!!!!! < 1374235933 978442 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how that shoes as "/hoe/hackbot" for me. < 1374235938 267627 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it fixed itself. < 1374236043 863043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rude < 1374236162 622451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bike: Why is the "f" mixed up? <-- are the letters rebelling today < 1374236178 262678 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wasn't mixed up in the logs) < 1374236217 185945 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374236280 562810 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1374236568 656124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`ord >_> or >_> < 1374236570 801238 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :62 95 62 32 111 114 32 62 95 62 < 1374236590 454929 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very suspicious. < 1374236599 182760 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1374236618 473387 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm? < 1374236621 692025 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1374236643 531131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^wiki list of ideas < 1374236643 736587 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/list of ideas < 1374236678 879402 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show wiki < 1374236679 142690 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :+15[>+4>+7>+7>+8<4-]>3-.>-4..<2+7.<-2.-11..>2-3.<+3.>2-5.-3.<-4.>+2.<+6.<.<-.>3+.+3.<.<2+.>+4.>+2.+2.-2.<2.,[.,] < 1374236717 619783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is finally time for a /hilight -mask fungot!*@* -level quits < 1374236718 544875 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i guess the biggest difficulty with vcs would be in high level code, easily human readable and parsed once not once per request. < 1374236741 327399 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally! < 1374236756 823147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^raw QUIT :just testing < 1374236757 29176 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi QUIT :Client Quit < 1374236759 550570 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1374236764 678584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not hilighted at all. < 1374236764 946342 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :BRING IT BACK < 1374236774 16247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hyperventilates in re: no fungot < 1374236780 217770 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1374236782 365602 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1374236786 423262 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess fungot is not ideally suited for character escaping. < 1374236786 955475 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what i thought too. particularly before there was no way < 1374236789 143764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it that nothing ever works right. < 1374236801 628965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: impending apocalypse hth < 1374236886 450651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: That was a suspiciously context-appropriate response. Are you feeling quite all right? < 1374236886 719579 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: seems like it would hurt. the main designer of the language < 1374236895 179184 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Okay, that's more like it. < 1374236895 447657 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm... i wonder if this makes the standard vague on several < 1374237067 822787 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no, it's the unstandard vague on several hth < 1374237068 90317 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ways in an escher painting rolling a hamster wheel... < 1374237080 218767 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yeah, pretty much < 1374237081 23417 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but that is very confusing to me. but it can be used for game dev, you just tend to destroy instead of observe. < 1374237387 164377 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think many game developers are like that. < 1374238613 113055 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait, isn't that the COBOL guy <-- yes < 1374238788 374451 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Bike and yeah lots of topology except they're talking about neighborhoods instead of open sets for whatever reason, i suppose it probably generalizes <-- there are heaps of equivalent definitions of what a topology is, neighborhoods are at least two of them hth < 1374238788 710312 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1374238835 200284 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's two because you can require the fundamental neigborhoods to be open or not) < 1374239102 32265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Bike open sets, closed sets, closure operation, interior operation, open neighborhoods, general neighborhoods, limit of nets, limit of filters are the ones i can think of on the spot < 1374239102 238682 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1374239670 862645 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1374239672 737861 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Client Quit < 1374239674 688976 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374240010 953088 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Gödel's ontological proof of God's existence uses as an axiom that the set of all "positive properties" is an ultrafilter." < 1374240419 464979 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-217-113-3.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374240441 558543 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374240563 668803 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374241309 646014 :daflixis!cb3bb10f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.59.177.15 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1374241380 794068 :stuntane!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1374241404 546947 :stuntane!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Client Quit < 1374242117 610090 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374242527 804174 :jsvine!~Adium@205.203.128.141 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374244049 899703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Over what I said? I dont think it was even worth mentioning that you are op. <-- fwiw i thought the same thing when kmc did hth < 1374244726 408728 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1374245194 305814 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like mr. "the challenges of changing nicks" came by again < 1374245463 596027 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1374245914 963637 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be TOPIC #esoteric :6, 21, 107, 47176870, 7.4 × 10³⁶⁵³⁴ | http://underhanded.xcott.com/?page_id=5 | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric and http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=M;O=D < 1374246218 220337 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374247991 162899 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374248057 850313 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374248237 521420 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it so hooooot < 1374248261 929041 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374248273 418775 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike can you figure out a way for me to blame you here. < 1374248282 64529 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :global warming hth < 1374248297 970024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, bikes are not to blame for that < 1374248299 309269 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: biological research on cows releasing large amounts of methane into the atmosphere, causing global warming. < 1374248305 336734 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wonderful part of canada < 1374248312 969224 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that in the summer it's too hot and in the winter it's too cold < 1374248351 223306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ok but can we try and figure out a way to blame you that doesn't involve cow farts. < 1374248395 813519 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Righting what once went left < 1374248440 19613 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of a tall order man. < 1374249025 811161 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374249926 218833 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374250089 653461 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374250753 816187 :aloril_!~aloril@dsl-tkubrasgw3-54f97e-153.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1374252294 203294 :intosh!~intosh@staticline41658.toya.net.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374254752 109763 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374255145 800003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (902) < 1374255147 675168 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (902): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly < 1374255798 898217 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374256633 307793 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374256983 461752 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374257382 937675 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi everyone < 1374257425 119100 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc. < 1374257428 359122 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:ae81:12ff:fe32:878a JOIN :#esoteric < 1374257437 807098 :everyone!~everyone@dsl-olubrasgw2-54f863-165.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1374257449 204099 :everyone!~everyone@dsl-olubrasgw2-54f863-165.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi kmc < 1374257452 132398 :everyone!~everyone@dsl-olubrasgw2-54f863-165.dhcp.inet.fi QUIT :Client Quit < 1374257571 811026 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1374257593 523565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when I change code and the changes clearly don't make it into the binary and I don't know why :( < 1374257598 184314 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:ae81:12ff:fe32:878a QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374257604 651712 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a clean build from scratch is slow < 1374257617 215542 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiler bug hth < 1374257652 274259 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly < 1374257942 367345 :doesthiswork!~Adium@71-217-113-3.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1374257987 736227 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374258521 323 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Help < 1374258536 598249 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the nick-length limit on IRC/ < 1374258561 750797 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net NICK :Testtesttesttest < 1374258569 339065 :Testtesttesttest!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 < 1374258570 679031 :Testtesttesttest!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1374258572 863863 :Testtesttesttest!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net NICK :Taneb < 1374258606 94857 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the server welcome, NICKLEN=16 < 1374258623 361440 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1374258642 232425 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because one of my friends has assigned me the nickname "Schrodigner's Rosebud" for inascertainable reasons < 1374258658 329582 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And while I am confused I think it does sound pretty cool < 1374258674 9646 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I felt that maybe it was time to change my IRC nick < 1374258760 795745 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But alas, it is too long! < 1374258773 787743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : compiler bug hth <--- oh surprise it's not a compiler bug, it's just me doing something dumb < 1374258780 928919 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cannot see a way to shorten it beyond 20 characters while retaining what made me love it in the first place < 1374258816 117340 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Excess Flood < 1374258845 768040 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1374258846 575006 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374258851 135760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: did you forget to run the compiler < 1374258853 546617 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would do it < 1374258974 68675 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1374259045 418657 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1374259050 588990 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you run the wrong compiler < 1374259060 907134 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I highly doubt GHC would compile Rust very well < 1374259107 476097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no indeed < 1374259114 716430 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can compile some things that aren't haskell though < 1374259143 179692 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps you should make GHC able to compile Rust < 1374259341 671349 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1374259383 440370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more reasonable would be to teach Cabal to compile Rust < 1374259390 864068 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can easily have Haskell / Rust hybrid projects < 1374259398 214271 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quitter < 1374259400 891460 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does a pretty slick job compiling and linking C with Haskell < 1374259446 708387 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell/Rust hybrid makes a lot of sense, because Rust is supposed to be a better alternative to C and C++ for stuff where you would generally use C or C++ < 1374259449 926417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a competitor to Haskell < 1374259478 305920 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Rust is C ABI compatible so standard Haskell FFI stuff should work, although it would be cool to have tools that help you pass higher level data structures between them < 1374259508 635007 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like good GSoC material < 1374259545 465568 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, yeah :) < 1374259579 617879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → lunch < 1374259594 906081 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION → iron < 1374260603 90118 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374260634 152472 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374260887 232643 :jconn!~username@la-pinta.la.net.ua JOIN :#esoteric < 1374261486 182541 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not go to iron as previously asserted < 1374261498 108662 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mum said "I'll do the ironing for you" < 1374261500 293992 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And messed it up < 1374261501 636155 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1374261726 715515 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374261747 206647 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374262740 936416 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374262758 572298 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374262786 282117 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1374262953 140597 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a language hunt. procedural paradigm, with objects, however the objects can't contain methods, and there are no pointers. anyone heard of something like that? < 1374263061 566551 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there can't be that much in the category for OO though < 1374263082 815225 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about real world langs? < 1374263145 959548 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know what you mean by 'procedural paradigm' or 'contain methods' < 1374263183 578028 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :objects typically contain data and methods that work on the data < 1374263206 613846 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this would be closer to a struct where it is data only < 1374263273 716159 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would be anything with a record type. which is a lot. < 1374263316 175388 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I need to make a lang like this < 1374263341 670148 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see how it works out.. might be fun < 1374263454 389575 :nooodl!~nooodl@12.100-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374263688 721783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Eats iron and shits chain" -- a Finnish idiom. < 1374263749 953428 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :HQ9++ < 1374263993 608015 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eat iron but that hasn’t happened yet. < 1374264187 694828 :nooodl!~nooodl@211.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374264263 725532 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-52-6.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1374264269 378906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: Then you must not be a real Finn. < 1374264281 577658 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Admittedly I have the same "problem".) < 1374264284 827202 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374264324 155044 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1374264328 238531 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm back < 1374264336 230125 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wv < 1374264336 765375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome comex < 1374264337 839045 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb* < 1374264340 517464 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​06co09m03ex: Welcome to the internat11ional 08hu09b for eso08t09eri04c programming l07anguage desi07gn and dep09loyment! For m09ore informa02t02ion, 13ch14eck out our 05wiki: h11ttp://esolan12gs.13or06g/02wik12i/Main_Page. (06For th10e 03other kind of eso12terica, try #esoter11ic14 on irc.dal.net.) < 1374264356 480921 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-238-88.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374264356 742144 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is some code written in a language that does not actually have any implementations: http://pastie.org/private/hsxu6u9wdxkeskofefsv5g < 1374264390 286580 :JesseH!~JesseH@ip72-210-71-131.mc.at.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting stuff < 1374264495 362273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Rust's new for loop works a bit like that? < 1374264516 251269 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually not exactly. < 1374264530 703018 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, comex < 1374264598 135096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I'm talking in mozilla #rust about Rust-Haskell integration, what do you think? < 1374264643 477024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't been following, let me see. < 1374264687 928848 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should lurk there < 1374264719 638064 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun < 1374264733 982030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of Haskell projects have some C component and it would be cool to use Rust there instead < 1374264749 974251 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should be able to e.g. allocate an owned box in Rust and then move it to Haskell code as a ForeignPtr < 1374264764 946236 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could definitely write a tool to help marshal algebraic data between the languages < 1374264798 762750 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :calling into your low-level realtime code but still having algebraic data would be awesome < 1374264854 22158 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374264856 702188 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-238-88.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374264886 24555 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how does that kind of interfacing work, with like, lazy evaluation and haskelly data structures and stuff? < 1374264930 159435 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1374264937 977120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well turning a Haskell algebraic data structure into a Rust algebraic data structure will involve copying, since they have totally different layout etc. < 1374264962 733413 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Haskell also has primitives for working with unboxed arrays, raw C pointers, etc., and tools for wrapping safe interfaces around these things < 1374264978 716752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example ByteString is ultimately backed by a contiguous chunk of memory allocated with malloc() < 1374265028 587635 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, in haskell, I can declare an array that's just an array of C doubles, and pass it to C without copying? < 1374265033 427676 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's just an array of doubles < 1374265033 670720 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1374265037 699578 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool! < 1374265047 300009 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful e.g. for calling some C matrix library < 1374265051 628160 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or FORTRAN matrix library!!) < 1374265068 271434 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course when you do these things you lose some of the memory safety guarantees of Haskell < 1374265072 697483 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: It would be neat. < 1374265073 773033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise in Rust < 1374265093 784996 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in many cases, a good Haskell wrapper for a C library can provide a high level safe interface, even if the guts involve mucking about with allocation and raw pointers < 1374265106 279425 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the same is true in Rust basically < 1374265110 160385 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does haskell (or ghc whatever) actually use malloc and not something that works better with gc'd areas? < 1374265121 588357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ByteStrings use malloc. < 1374265131 889999 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a library, not something implemented in GHC. < 1374265137 245918 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GHC GC doesn't need to know anything about the guts of a ByteString, and would have nothing useful to do with them anyway < 1374265142 457917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Text uses GHC-managed byte arrays. < 1374265195 248755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ByteString uses http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/base/4.2.0.1/doc/html/Foreign-ForeignPtr.html < 1374265221 576273 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer to an object not managed by the GHC RTS, with an attached finalizer that runs when the last copy of that pointer disappears < 1374265228 360678 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in this case would just call free() < 1374265235 866473 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just thinking, like, doesn't malloc involve plenty of overhead < 1374265245 303551 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a better malloc then ;P < 1374265265 314457 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the goals of ByteString is to be interoperable with C code. < 1374265266 962254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know; what about the ByteString allocation case makes you think that a specialized allocator could do better than the system default general allocator < 1374265285 884741 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: presumably that doesn't include freeing a ByteString from C, though. or do they have a "transfer ownership" method? < 1374265293 431073 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1374265294 312709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really do that safely in Haskell, but you can in Rust, which is cool < 1374265330 214639 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the thing about ByteString is that it's a general immutable byte buffer type; it could be small or large, have all kinds of different access patterns, etc. according to the application < 1374265340 267066 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm just thinking like, for malloc you have to have an area of memory laid out into blocks and all, but the runtime might already be doing something of that for itself < 1374265346 735984 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think if you can beat malloc() for ByteString then you should just use that better algorithm as malloc() < 1374265351 111117 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not positive < 1374265362 945549 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like shachaf said GHC does have its own routines for allocating contiguous arrays < 1374265364 554043 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there is almost certainly libc in the process already < 1374265374 210439 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374265382 482602 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there? I don't know. < 1374265382 749710 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw foreign calls from Haskell to C can be made very fast < 1374265388 849082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foreign calls from Rust to C are slow atm :/ < 1374265390 728870 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there is some way to do static linking < 1374265396 93370 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: why? < 1374265418 909889 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Rust uses small segmented stacks, and for a C call you have to jump to a big stack, and perhaps allocate one too < 1374265424 82669 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1374265426 532644 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :...why does it do that? < 1374265427 338834 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there isn't a good reason to use segmented stacks on 64-bit architectures, though < 1374265459 685054 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rust wants to support lightweight threading and if you allocate a new large stack for every thread, you will quickly run out of 32-bit address space < 1374265505 536918 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an unsafe fast C call for things that don't use much stack space? < 1374265517 917061 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lightweight thrads, like um... stackless python or something? < 1374265518 966548 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think you could say "this C call will only be used from threads that have previously called " < 1374265522 534253 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it will be improved < 1374265527 36910 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the OS will lazily allocate physical pages, so you're only constrained by virtual address space and not by actual memory < 1374265539 326370 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: yeah, there is various discussion of improvements < 1374265570 98968 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think there is such a thing hardcoded for the runtime's calls to e.g. malloc and free, but I don't think you can write a general foreign import that works that way < 1374265575 748987 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though google says segmented stacks themselves have a large performance hit < 1374265580 744098 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1374265588 217264 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is jumping to another stack, like, bad? I mean, you could like, keep a few arund to use or something, right? < 1374265591 265499 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to check "do I need more stack" on every function call pretty much :( < 1374265613 624122 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! that reminds me of this which is kind of interesting < 1374265615 63300 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/100775 < 1374265618 719086 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? can't you just have a guard page? < 1374265634 129656 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: yeah I don't know... maybe they want to deallocate them eagerly, because otherwise every thread that has ever made a C call is no longer lightweight < 1374265650 295897 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :functions that use large amounts of stack have to poke each page they're allocating in order to trigger the guard page < 1374265667 647141 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think, at least? I read it a long time ago... < 1374265683 129671 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: yeah, if you know that the function won't jump more than 1 page up the stack < 1374265687 345079 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could know statically sometimes < 1374265691 49186 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: isn't the stack like, thrown away the instant the C function returns? so like, it doesn't need to keep using that big stack chunk thing < 1374265742 109703 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I must be missing something) < 1374265742 892131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the function might jump 10 pages up the stack, then you need 10 guard pages, and in the limit you are using so much VM that you might as well have a big stack < 1374265758 319973 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374265766 54647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're suggesting a pool of big stacks for calling C? < 1374265772 83633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might already be how it works; I'm not sure < 1374265776 149494 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so? < 1374265789 485218 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how stack guard pages work on different OSs... there must be standards or something... < 1374265795 303410 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that link is just like, windows < 1374265806 631918 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's "ensure we only need one guard page"?) < 1374265816 978696 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know checkinstall's wrappers around libc calls allocate lots of big structs containing n*MAX_PATH bytes on the stack? < 1374265834 106084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found this out when I tried to checkinstall something which was using a coroutine library with small stacks. < 1374265840 572998 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1374265846 337795 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make install" ran "make test", which ran some binaries, which called open() etc. < 1374265895 614108 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to try to compile a linux function that uses a lot of stack to see what the compiler does. < 1374265900 330335 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Isn't there a thing where a debugger can mark pages with the objects unreadable to catch accesses in software? < 1374265920 394246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that would be very slow. < 1374265933 398407 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: you could just map the maximum stack size and lazily provide physical pages, then you don't need a guard page and you'll just get a normal page fault if you go outside the stack < 1374265934 208039 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, GDB can do that < 1374265948 65680 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: but like, what if past the guard page is other valid memory? < 1374265955 858422 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you access it :) < 1374265967 332435 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like, couldn't it be something you're not supposed to be clobbering? < 1374265971 916043 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like other program data < 1374265978 943724 :sebbu2!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1374265981 807695 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: and then you run out of address space :) < 1374265982 75544 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, then some stuff breaks :) < 1374265989 113241 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care about x86, but i do care about ARM < 1374265990 849344 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... doesn't sound like a good idea XD < 1374266014 34125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't run out of stack, hth < 1374266036 713822 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, please use recursion a lot and don't check for overflow < 1374266043 305006 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can be sploited < 1374266073 236119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :george w bush doesn't care about x86 < 1374266086 922504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke's on you, I used tail recursion! < 1374266100 465138 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: did you see the Linux security hole that resulted from a driver that used a C99 VLA with user-controlled size? < 1374266110 854796 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I believe I found at least one such hole in OS X < 1374266113 538216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1374266114 612275 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1374266125 144382 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux kernel stacks are only 8 kB usually < 1374266134 97500 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard to overflow one < 1374266185 807073 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374266298 962260 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez, even if I try to make a function that uses like 8 megabytes of stack it doesn't do anything like chkstk < 1374266302 785860 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's just a windows thing >_< < 1374266319 961281 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I don't think Linux programs detect stack overflow typically < 1374266345 832860 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why that's just a windows ABI thing... < 1374266388 332153 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you shouldn't be using that much stack, it's silly < 1374266393 273174 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1374266395 953254 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows also has SEH < 1374266406 1274 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you say VLAs - you shouldn't be using VLAs, ever < 1374266413 120923 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love VLAs, they're so easy < 1374266416 786264 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least without checking the size you're allocating < 1374266419 13561 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ever? < 1374266422 499407 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, better not to use them ever :) < 1374266426 902357 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 401170: 56 push esi < 1374266427 224107 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 401171: b8 80 3e 00 00 mov eax,0x3e80 < 1374266427 430058 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 401176: 53 push ebx < 1374266427 673059 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 401177: e8 64 00 00 00 call 4011e0 <___chkstk> < 1374266433 407980 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1374266443 902738 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :culture difference, I guess... windows went "failures have to be detected and abort the program" vs linux "don't run out of stack or you'll have weird and undefined problems" < 1374266459 131707 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort...? I thought the idea was to like, add more pages (?) < 1374266468 83919 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=14236 is fun... don't use VLAs and alloca() together in GCC or you're gonna have a bad time < 1374266473 170736 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you have a guard page and then if you hit it you throw more on the end or am I totally misunderstanding < 1374266480 377195 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 year old open bug < 1374266511 459550 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as epic as http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=323 < 1374266519 135115 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: Your link says "issues an overflow error". < 1374266534 884465 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh @_@ < 1374266535 90161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe you're talking about something else? < 1374266544 35857 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I can't read >_< < 1374266551 819065 :calamari!~calamari@173.151.53.33 QUIT :Quit: Bye < 1374266583 262245 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably get pages allocated automatically up until the guard page, and the guard page is between the stack and the heap or something else in address space < 1374266593 513064 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :to detect and prevent the stack from overlapping that other stuff < 1374266622 765644 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on 64-bit wouldn't it have a ton of address space, so it can just like, lazily allocate the stack to avoid wasting memory, or... (?) < 1374266622 971350 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're lucky yeah < 1374266645 711928 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on any modern OS (32- or 64-bit) the physical pages of the stack will be allocated lazily < 1374266650 869067 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like any other anonymous mapping basically < 1374266676 76045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that doesn't have to be contiguous or anything < 1374266684 466432 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.... that 9 year old bug. that's... a lot of duplicates < 1374266692 604377 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is basically transparent to user code < 1374266698 614743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take comex's advice and use alloca instead of VLAs. < 1374266699 192080 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :on Linux (and probably other OSes) the virtual memory mapping itself also grows on faults < 1374266702 828110 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1374266730 60796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not transparent; you could mmap() something in the way and then it won't be able to grow anymore < 1374266733 20443 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1374266755 346258 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geez. is this like an x87 80-bit/64-bit bug thing? like um... that... that php infinite loop double thing < 1374266760 233414 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1374266762 863298 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how i found this ticket < 1374266781 712773 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a lot of dupes because people keep claiming that gcc's -ffast-math behavior is a compiler bug when in fact it's perfectly reasonable and documented < 1374266786 316112 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like -fwrong-math < 1374266801 144686 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is this only with -ffast-math? < 1374266810 866922 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's another huge bug thread that basically has a dupe from everyone who doesn't understand sequence points and claims a compiler bug for that reason < 1374266814 929490 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1374266833 339785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not? < 1374266839 913843 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think -O enables fast-math < 1374266841 793285 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@quote monochrom bits < 1374266842 60619 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :monochrom says: 8-bit word uses less memory, but if it doesn't have to preserve information, I know how to use 0 bits of memory. < 1374266844 667225 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh gosh. now I'm thinking of um. that x87 guy < 1374266848 619454 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh I should be working instead of talking about cool things :/ < 1374266870 845908 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the x87 guy D: < 1374266888 222461 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :internal tzetze problem: i conflate the x87 guy and zeilberger in my head, because they are both crazy < 1374266926 858582 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, unrelatedly, somebody is asking for recommendations for books to self-study high school algebra < 1374266934 128929 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm blanking because like, that was years ago. any ideas? < 1374267020 848370 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what C actually specifies should happen with this excess precision < 1374267029 11851 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also wonder if I really want to know) < 1374267228 992319 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing is half the battle < 1374267293 902066 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm now imagining, like, a bunch of bearded linux programmers holding signs in front of his houses < 1374267298 161819 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :with slogans like < 1374267300 921090 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe C specifies IEEE 754 < 1374267303 743927 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GIVE US BACK OUR COMMUTIVITY" < 1374267321 18590 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... if __STDC_IEC_559__ is set, anyway < 1374267325 645630 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaah < 1374267343 786659 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote __STDC_IEC_559__ < 1374267345 150042 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :852) What is portable way of load/save floating points in files, using a C code? #ifndef __STDC_IEC_559__ #error Here's a nickel, kid. Buy a real computer. #endif < 1374267372 313543 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm do IEEE 754 floats vary with machine endianness? < 1374267376 788154 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374267380 360614 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucks < 1374267393 392963 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my answer isn't just unhelpful, it's also wrong :'( < 1374267408 131827 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the end of the world, you have to swap everything else already < 1374267452 714984 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i follow an evolutionary biomechanist on twitter and he posts cat gifs and elephants < 1374267460 947351 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww, don't swap. serialize. < 1374267482 683572 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the real answer involves frexp() or something < 1374267530 633140 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: too hard < 1374267533 345739 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, that is < 1374267538 670007 :comex!~comex@ec2-54-225-4-143.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier in any higher level language < 1374267607 122044 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :serializing floats efficiently and without losing precision is moderately tricky < 1374267633 623290 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's annoying that frexp() still returns a floating point mantissa, not an integer one < 1374267634 695999 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least using some read/write_portable_float function is easy, writing those functions might be less so < 1374267654 860715 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be reasonably ok as long as you don't have to change base right < 1374267754 403732 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It looks like the standard xgcc for the arm-elf target uses little endian byte order but big endian word order (1.0 => 0x0000F03F 0x00000000)." scary < 1374267815 928982 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1374267830 581176 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, I thought all mixed-endian platforms were dead < 1374267846 197087 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the PDP isn't dead! it's running nuclear reactors as we speak < 1374267854 506657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :until 2050 < 1374267869 247785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/19/nuke_plants_to_keep_pdp11_until_2050/ < 1374267887 437737 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be a softfloat thing? < 1374267906 955423 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for ARMs where all the double stuff has to be emulated < 1374267974 226617 :nooodl!~nooodl@211.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374267982 218553 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1374268013 403468 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not as funny. < 1374268857 695422 :nooodl!~nooodl@211.180-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1374269058 770854 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1374269345 830483 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374269461 469846 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1374269501 556829 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :does pdp11 have something like the year 2038 problem? < 1374269509 974129 :Bike!~Glossina@67-5-243-71.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374269550 527898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that's _why_ they will stop in 2050 < 1374269669 540951 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374269718 147363 :Bike_!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374269917 26950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait when running unix it probably has 2038 problems, period. maybe. < 1374270014 771264 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got 2038 problems but Y2K ain't one < 1374270598 779998 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And messed it up <-- i conclude you are better at ironing than your mother < 1374270632 937890 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm better at reading instructions for t-shirt transfers than my mother < 1374270661 649594 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :she ruined your cosplay shirt? :( < 1374270686 61564 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :would a nuclear reactor run unix? < 1374270707 295633 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: i don't know < 1374270720 215483 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, just didn't do it very well < 1374270723 512985 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that doesn't help < 1374270727 879452 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cosplaying a homestuck? < 1374270764 810312 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374270802 54856 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1374270846 31403 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, Jake English < 1374270875 625906 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should totally go with a Dirk < 1374270910 42615 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know anyone who cosplays Dirk who doesn't have their own Jake :) < 1374270911 652784 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*( < 1374270912 994033 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1374270920 343594 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadness was the emotion I wanted < 1374270922 256711 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not happiness < 1374270923 594737 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah < 1374270932 983582 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's okay! < 1374270939 561063 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get what you meant! < 1374270942 97482 :Bike_!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1374271326 122930 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/files/2013/07/Tall-remora-figure-600.jpg remoras have stylish hats < 1374271445 786564 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-129-102.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1374271532 577067 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374271567 63942 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374271591 771214 :augur!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374271602 205920 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374271846 420077 :augur_!~augur@c-75-74-129-116.hsd1.fl.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1374271987 553965 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : does haskell (or ghc whatever) actually use malloc and not something that works better with gc'd areas? <-- note that the ByteString mentions are a special case done by the library; normal haskell types get allocated through ghc's own GC-adapted system, which doesn't use malloc but instead OS-dependent large memory allocation calls (i think mmap for linux) < 1374272145 118918 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, ghc's runtime normally does handle most of it by itself < 1374272227 470753 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: ^ < 1374272264 655029 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1374273063 143216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374273105 583689 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal Haskell objects are garbage collected and can be moved, which means allocation can be super fast < 1374273152 463243 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know whether GHC's allocator uses mmap or malloc for allocating the big chunks of memory tht it manages, but I doubt that really matters. < 1374273161 957455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, they're like 4 MB < 1374273180 738811 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a region for new objects, and a pointer to where the next object goes, and you just bump that pointer on every alloc < 1374273186 637709 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need to find a good fit in a free list, like malloc does < 1374273202 393752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then once some of those objects die, the GC can move things around < 1374274021 337843 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if you ask most mallocs for 4 MB they will call mmap anyway < 1374274119 642165 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means GHC can use the big pages, right? < 1374274160 784100 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it doesn't < 1374274170 796952 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that Linux will transparently use big pages these days < 1374274288 141414 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux calls them "huge pages" < 1374274297 747880 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :much better name than windows's "large pages" imo < 1374274323 857639 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that AMD now supported like 2GB pages but the big ones in linux were 2MB which confused me a little < 1374274358 670166 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(maybe it was a misprint?) < 1374274384 77474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are several sizes. < 1374274387 592661 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik, 1GB and 2MB are the only "big" page sizes supported on amd64 < 1374274393 595158 :pikhq_!~pikhq@24.107.196.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup. < 1374274394 706132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :2GB pages sound like a very specialized sort of thing. < 1374274395 608777 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's 1GB < 1374274396 886824 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in some 32-bit you can get 4MB pages < 1374274400 690295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 1GB. < 1374274402 55640 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does 1GB pages work? < 1374274415 340210 :pikhq_!~pikhq@24.107.196.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :As you'd expect. It's a page that's 1G. < 1374274425 277145 :pikhq_!~pikhq@24.107.196.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not used much courtesy of being niche. < 1374274433 416713 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so like, something like linux wouldn't support it? < 1374274448 693704 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds useful for setting up direct mappings within your kernel < 1374274448 959454 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why wouldn't it? < 1374274459 14755 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as useful for userspace < 1374274519 3264 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :2MB and 1GB pages use the same mechanism (a bit in the page table entry says it's a big page rather than a pointer to another level of page tables) < 1374274553 935245 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Enormous_Sunfish.jpg this fish is bullshit < 1374274558 82403 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls /sys/kernel/mm/hugepages < 1374274560 537324 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see the supported sizes < 1374274563 526169 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have 2048kB < 1374274587 319846 :pikhq_!~pikhq@24.107.196.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet Linux doesn't export support for 1G pages to userspace. < 1374274593 14217 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason 4TB pages don't exist (despite having the exact same structure and an available bit) < 1374274594 87887 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need to enable 1GB pages at boot time. < 1374274594 892931 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I don't think it does < 1374274598 686199 :pikhq_!~pikhq@24.107.196.13 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Courtesy of being dubious. < 1374274614 807168 :jsvine!~Adium@205.203.128.141 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1374274621 826271 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :1GB pages require cpu support too, and doesn't seem to be supported by most intel cpus < 1374274622 32164 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be useful for database servers or such < 1374274622 32304 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the 1GB pages were exposed to userspace? < 1374274629 646411 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you have a file-backed hugepage mapping < 1374274668 114841 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Mola-mola-Lisboa-20051020.jpg it's kind of cute < 1374274708 985511 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah I saw one of those in Galápagos < 1374274713 852398 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird fish < 1374274762 545713 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«he Chinese translation of its academic name is fan-che yu 翻車魚, meaning "toppled car fish"» it's pretty orientalist of me but i really dig literal translations of chinese translations < 1374274782 427261 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: cute, and weightier than a smartcar < 1374274806 497401 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1374274835 596073 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got to go to galapagos? wow < 1374274861 558535 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow it's literally heavier than a fortwo. < 1374274885 709468 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :on average. big sunfish apparently get up to 2.3 Mg which is a bit horrifying < 1374274988 997262 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(looks like pdpe1gb is the cpuinfo flag to check for) < 1374275020 616955 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mola_mola-Skelett,_Naturhistorisches_Museum_Wien.jpg yo wassup < 1374275024 432124 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. that's a huge fish < 1374275081 792111 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By basking on its side at the surface, the sunfish also allows seabirds to feed on parasites from its skin." cute < 1374275154 338511 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1374275155 408806 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sea lions appear to hunt sunfish for sport, tearing the fins off, tossing the body around, and then simply abandoning the still-living but helpless fish to die on the seafloor" less cute < 1374275165 894785 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1374275189 76785 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Newly hatched sunfish larvae are only 2.5 mm (0.098 in) long." < 1374275218 791861 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Injuries from sunfish are rare, although there is a slight danger from large sunfish leaping out of the water onto boats; in one instance a boy was knocked off his boat when a sunfish leaped onto it." < 1374275238 266079 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1374275252 537547 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The by-catch rate is even higher for the Mediterranean swordfish industry, with 71% to 90% of the total catch being sunfish." < 1374275258 28311 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is kind of amazing < 1374275266 239307 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we're a swordfish fishery. 90% of our catch is actually sunfish" < 1374275432 575494 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/98/Mola_mola.jpg gosh they look so adorably doofy XD < 1374275462 60718 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weigh as much of a car and lay 300 million eggs at a time, i'm amazed anybody catches anything else :p < 1374275481 79972 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 million @___@ < 1374275543 718870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0003 trillion eggs < 1374275546 474504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing < 1374275552 955299 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean obviously they almost all die. < 1374275591 487209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you call concurrency things that aren't primitives? < 1374275630 480050 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :complicatives < 1374275761 789182 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rhtyp_u0_white_bg.gif lookin' at big fish now < 1374275766 672853 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the form of weird pixel art < 1374275903 143351 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was looking at that one too <.< < 1374275917 913168 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishbase < 1374276034 745017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I linked someone in #haskell to the FAQ and they ignored it so people started typing the same thing in the channel instead. < 1374276045 21711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you do to get people to actually read links? < 1374276062 711981 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest disproportionate violence < 1374276113 331613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good < 1374276124 222115 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest friendliness! < 1374276140 405103 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/0.7/std/cast.html Rust has so many different exciting kinds of unsafe cast! < 1374276149 953132 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: what kind of friendliness < 1374276166 249305 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "forget: Move a thing into the void" < 1374276169 811409 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo it's missing "transmogrify" < 1374276188 87148 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1374276191 653239 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree < 1374276196 348178 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spy_hopping#Spyhopping ethology is the best < 1374276212 873577 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megamouth_shark @_@ < 1374276214 605478 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: "i suggest disproportionate friendliness" < 1374276223 457227 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :#haskell already has plenty of that < 1374276235 682343 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: "This can be used for various acts of magick." dorks < 1374276253 829853 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what's with insulting people like that all the time < 1374276260 797665 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://static.rust-lang.org/doc/std/local_data.html "Casting 'Arcane Sight' reveals an overwhelming aura of Transmutation magic." < 1374276361 959771 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRsPheErBj8 < 1374276399 615073 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that from Homer Goes to College? < 1374276407 492991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes, that < 1374276422 376060 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :great episode < 1374276426 430715 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you do it < 1374276426 699320 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :written by conan o'brien < 1374276439 466354 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably he does it because we're all huge dorks and that makes it funny < 1374276468 171692 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mind because "dork" is a pretty mild, even affectionate label < 1374276621 609242 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the idea yeah < 1374276641 689120 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sitting here reading about extinct sharks, i'm not in a position to stuff you into your locker < 1374276723 320450 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not particularly worried about being stuffed into lockers < 1374276735 293230 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best extinct shark < 1374276808 311573 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess megalodon is too obvious. < 1374276884 682606 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1374276896 631832 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say when I say dork I mean it affectionately but bike will probably just counter by telling me that I mean everything affectionately < 1374276902 880556 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1374276919 510151 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do the two of you know each other, anyway? < 1374276939 38404 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a different irc channel < 1374276947 595982 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :he dragged me here from a place < 1374276964 677713 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happens when you're a shut-in, see, you just meet everybody online < 1374276965 749827 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: "doooooorks" seems to have pretty obvious insult undertones < 1374276971 754567 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it's also pretty obviously a joke < 1374276984 715101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is that he's acting as if he's insulting you but he doesn't actually mean it < 1374276988 276810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1374276995 78887 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: gpoy ._. < 1374277051 941253 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :<#haskell> haskell is the best. but i can imagine things, which could be better. < 1374277069 609134 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be kind of an interesting real life meeting that had both a 20yo dropout biologist thing and also fiora the haxor < 1374277112 648574 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Bike the dropout biologist thing? < 1374277118 588882 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374277122 966071 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a haxor < 1374277127 492327 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any sense, really < 1374277168 409662 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you explain that you were sighted in an 80s movie talking about firewalls! < 1374277180 804474 :kallisti!~eris@c-98-230-133-110.hsd1.ga.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374277181 652201 :kallisti!~eris@c-98-230-133-110.hsd1.ga.comcast.net QUIT :Changing host < 1374277181 857978 :kallisti!~eris@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1374277181 858062 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were one iff people called you one < 1374277201 784660 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is just which kind you are < 1374277213 89034 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kinds are there? < 1374277216 404463 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i be a haxxxor < 1374277231 484905 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude i'm underage < 1374277248 946190 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even alive in the 80s <_> < 1374277255 889035 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :is "20yo" underage? < 1374277269 431920 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: http://puu.sh/3y07p.gif < 1374277271 640910 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's too many xs. that's just ridiculous < 1374277274 972638 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am complete, olsner, but not consistent. < 1374277412 479018 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i like how function call is actually an operation on function pointers, not functions, in C < 1374277418 415605 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of "underage" are we talking < 1374277423 333109 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like x[y] is an operation on pointers, not arrays < 1374277428 702056 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: cool how it goes in and out of focus < 1374277428 909000 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1374277440 320613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"age" is 25 years old < 1374277464 376909 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn overage < 1374277465 180467 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :im 25 years old < 1374277465 717920 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "overage" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1374277465 985054 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :overage < 1374277466 190972 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : adj 1: too old to be useful; "He left the house...for the < 1374277466 191164 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : support of twelve superannuated wool carders"- Anthony < 1374277466 191275 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : Trollope [syn: {overage}, {overaged}, {superannuated}, < 1374277467 898016 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :[3 @more lines] < 1374277472 490316 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, not that < 1374277473 27886 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@more < 1374277473 299379 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : {over-the-hill}] < 1374277473 505239 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: a surplus or excess of money or merchandise that is < 1374277473 834673 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric : actually on hand and that exceeds expectations < 1374277476 781743 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :there we go < 1374277491 363474 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :underage is the lack of money or merchandise compared to expectations < 1374277510 636650 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :underäge, on the other hand............... < 1374277512 129648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: although functions decay to function pointers quickly, I don't think function calls actually also do that < 1374277547 441606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Do they not? < 1374277604 701337 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: anyways I think the meeting would probably involve us both being awkward and me being shy and nobody saying anything for a while < 1374277626 940435 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be like my other offline meets: involving pizza and action films < 1374277628 856866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you need some loudmouth people around too < 1374277632 916845 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me? sometimes? < 1374277638 170034 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes I am also shy and awkward < 1374277657 921884 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if we get enough internet people /someone/ must be a loudmouth... right...............? < 1374277659 582036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can confirm all of the above < 1374277667 93017 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i a loudmouth < 1374277672 590216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hardly < 1374277682 18607 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not around people i don't know p. well < 1374277685 580912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe sometimes < 1374277687 225366 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1374277748 951885 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Web homescreens", "cloud desktops": the core interface of devices < 1374277760 789781 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :those sound like star trek words. < 1374277771 621507 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you know me p. well, now? < 1374277815 472769 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else read "BS in Computer Science" as Bullshit in CS? < 1374277831 338199 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1374277836 203268 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i don't know < 1374277846 731055 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the saying. bullshit, more shit, piled higher and deeper < 1374277978 188791 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: The function call operator is specified to take a function pointer (with a footnote something like "usually from a conversion of a function designator"), so I'd say they do. < 1374277990 619910 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: cool < 1374278001 702971 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so what can you do with actual functions < 1374278026 586449 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :cast them to char[] and go fucking nuts, imo < 1374278071 721097 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can try to take their sizeof (and fail) < 1374278072 689663 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can typedef function types in addition to function pointer types, which is neat < 1374278106 470106 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do, like, putc(*(char*)foo);? < 1374278132 506788 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: You can apply the & operator to one, to get a pointer to the function. < 1374278141 465272 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1374278141 671651 :Bike!~Glossina@75-175-65-137.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really doubt that's portable, i just think it would be funny < 1374278147 364771 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or you can do j. about anything else with it < 1374278148 973631 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1374278153 384685 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get the same pointer?? < 1374278158 480760 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that was not the right key < 1374278183 10539 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :int main() { typedef int foo(const char *); foo puts; puts("hello world"); return 0; } < 1374278193 700862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes. But the j. about anything would presumably act on the result of the conversion, not the actual function. < 1374278230 41271 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: right, i mean that doing & doesn't do you a w. lot of good compared to just letting the function decay < 1374278232 311556 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo.c:10:1: warning: ISO C forbids conversion of function pointer to object poin < 1374278233 42878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it?? < 1374278235 312936 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ter type < 1374278237 585656 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently!) < 1374278241 15874 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: I think that's undefined if foo is a function since a function isn't a char < 1374278242 152096 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, you can say sizeof &foo, i suppose < 1374278244 158054 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least in my gcc that's a pedantic < 1374278250 545816 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I meant *(char)*&foo < 1374278253 836340 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1374278256 966017 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*(char*)&foo < 1374278262 706768 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: I was about to say that. You can't convert a function pointer to a void * either. < 1374278269 570419 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just cast it to uintptr_t or something first hth < 1374278270 640651 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or because of function pointers being weirder than pointers and not really convertible < 1374278273 979246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll make it defined behavior again < 1374278392 308350 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't convert any pointer (in a defined way) to uintptr_t (if it even exists), just a void *.