< 1374883216 501180 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the article on comoving distance, the "actual" distance "right now" is the proper distance, not the comoving < 1374883223 51631 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohhh. the 13 billion is "light travel distance" < 1374883225 162286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Maybe instead of writing a Hylisk-to-C compiler in Hylisk, I should write it in a language that already exists. <-- i wonder how many people have written the first compiler for X in X, and then compiled it by hand to get the first actual implementation < 1374883238 181161 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i hope geofft isn't talking about guests staying over.............. < 1374883250 421574 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just knuth and some older people < 1374883255 941131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, I also want to wonder about such thing < 1374883259 561332 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ? < 1374883263 303402 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have thought of it too < 1374883271 732290 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a pointless pun < 1374883276 143958 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1374883277 681455 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was another pointless pun??) < 1374883281 162768 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(help) < 1374883295 231278 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*simulated it by hand < 1374883301 201350 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure this out >_< < 1374883304 351444 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh wikipedia links to wikisky.org < 1374883309 881478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to be confused with wikiwhisky.org < 1374883325 251388 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've done the same thing in my head, at least < 1374883330 600996 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for very simple compilers < 1374883351 301580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sky is smoky with a mild aftertaste < 1374883408 711018 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comoving distance of the farthest known object is 32 billion light years < 1374883410 601106 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty far < 1374883444 481663 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: "Comoving distance and proper distance are defined to be equal at the present time hence the ratio of proper distance to comoving distance now is 1." < 1374883459 851638 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so comoving distance is just proper distance scaled to "how big the universe is now", I think? < 1374883518 480496 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UDFj-39546284 @_@ < 1374883535 981733 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buddhist physics "the universe is one" < 1374883563 572542 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: right, though i don't really understand that so well < 1374883577 291399 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, what a useless thing to say, bike < 1374883609 191599 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Hubble_Extreme_Deep_Field_%28full_resolution%29.png < 1374883612 702064 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares < 1374883631 674739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stars < 1374883638 191490 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :23 day exposure time... < 1374883673 601399 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody sneeze < 1374883684 352247 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the deep field images because they look like a collage or a bad artist's impression or something < 1374883689 431754 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's just so much stuff piled together < 1374883737 432378 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like all the colors... < 1374883745 841574 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :colors are great < 1374883834 627785 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I wonder if there's a way to set vim to treat the file as being an infinite plane. <-- are you familiar with :set virtualedit? < 1374883898 382126 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite with or without an edge? < 1374883902 882982 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or two edges? < 1374883912 792046 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works rightwards, i guess. < 1374883913 602189 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, you could have three edges < 1374884002 712221 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffraction_spikes oohhhhhh that's why there's always those spikes on stars in astronomical photos < 1374884015 712518 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They are artifacts caused by light diffracting around the support vanes of the secondary mirror. Refracting telescopes and their photographic images do not have the same problem." < 1374884103 222104 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to believe it's because stars are sparkly < 1374884115 23195 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and then it wins in line count on all the challenges. <-- iirc the benchmarks game compares _compressed_ source size, which i doubt befunge will do particularly well on < 1374884116 212363 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah geez fiora, next you'll be saying stars don't actually twinkle. < 1374884131 622457 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I I just thought it was interesting :< < 1374884132 780079 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374884135 262899 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Ghoul_ and then it wins in line count on all the challenges. <-- iirc the benchmarks game compares _compressed_ source size, which i doubt befunge will do particularly well on < 1374884135 467924 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1374884176 232441 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wait, it elides much boilerplate? < 1374884329 742523 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am filled with a sudden urge to read His Master's Voice again < 1374884334 92947 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :astronomy always makes me think of that. < 1374884500 643566 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry I still don't quite understand how to make that encoding of less cost efficiently, for some reason, even though you explained it to me. < 1374884644 183358 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought I understood but somehow I don't. < 1374884715 913491 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a example of an existing program which includes such an algorithm? < 1374884733 173752 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i have just thought up the algorithm right now < 1374884795 243332 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it can be easier to understand some things if it is written like a computer program, since that is more precise than ordinary words. < 1374885078 4788 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: < 1374885079 14948 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Cygnus X-1 was discovered using X-ray instruments that were carried aloft by a sounding rocket launched from White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico. As part of an ongoing effort to map these sources, a survey was conducted in 1964 using two Aerobee suborbital < 1374885083 494188 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :rockets. The rockets carried Geiger counters to measure X-ray emission in wavelength range 1–15 Å across an 8.4° section of the sky. These instruments swept across the sky as the rockets rotated, producing a map of closely spaced scans." < 1374885105 283947 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty < 1374885105 843872 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :x-ray astronomy started with /carefully aiming geiger counters on top of a sounding rocket/ < 1374885111 214502 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wow < 1374885290 24880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Maybe someone else knows a similar thing though? < 1374885399 275348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably < 1374885421 505213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Many algorithms are try to explain like a pseudo code, which often works better than the explanation just by only English sentences. Sometimes it is even done both, and if it is a real code then it might be literate programming.) < 1374885479 434734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: If you just made up now, do you know that it is correct? (If not, then maybe it isn't me that isn't understanding it.) < 1374885559 406322 :hr_!~quassel@174-16-174-172.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374885568 204893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Sgeo, how's it going < 1374885581 425278 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solve my puzzles! < 1374885582 134932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that this is a thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_mirror_telescope < 1374885583 955804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have the pseudo code of it? < 1374885594 135680 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: You have some puzzle? < 1374885596 5671 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: are they crypto puzzles? < 1374885610 125344 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, sorry :( < 1374885610 685029 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://creaturescaves.com/index.php?view=1134 < 1374885656 25258 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why does a mirror reflect things left-to-right but not up-to-down < 1374885697 216184 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because left and right are relative to orientation whereas up and down are not? < 1374885717 195980 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1374885741 725889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a different answer to that question; I have also seen some others too but mine is different to that too. < 1374885745 96636 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turn. Left and right have changed. Stand on your head. Up and down have not changed. < 1374885758 175608 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Isaac Newton noted that the free surface of a rotating liquid forms a circular paraboloid and can therefore be used as a telescope, but he could not actually build one because he had no way to stabilize the speed of rotation" newton you freak < 1374885759 396438 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I'm not fully sure if my answer is accurate < 1374885773 985468 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: That sounds like a thing which has to do more with your definitions than with anything else. < 1374885792 847123 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget about gravity etc., and say that up is the direction your head is pointing. Or something. < 1374885810 875649 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You still have this issue. I have a shirt with some text on it, I step in front of a mirror, the text is flipped right/left. < 1374885834 446160 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, research is underway to develop telescopes that can be tilted." out of context this is actually hilarious XD < 1374885867 985436 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how stable does it need to be? big flywheel is no good? < 1374885870 17193 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are just beyond human knowledge < 1374885899 535459 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you use a flywheel to keep liquid rotating around a nongravitational axis? < 1374885914 585851 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant re: Newton < 1374885921 115771 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1374885927 125572 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess newtn didn't really have motors < 1374885940 828936 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it needs to be pretty darn stable to be better than mirrors < 1374885982 58891 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1374885996 134681 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let states = [0..2]; addCharCost charCostMap costs ch = [ minimum [ costs !! s1 + charCostMap s1 s2 ch | s1 <- states ] | s2 <- states ] in addCharCost < 1374885996 879150 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num t, Ord t) => (Int -> Int -> t1 -> t) -> [t] -> t1 -> [t] < 1374886007 315883 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of magnets < 1374886044 136364 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one of the proposals yeah < 1374886046 56265 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you had an electrically charged liquid you could make a spherical mirror < 1374886064 835655 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could do um... a ferrofluid mirror? < 1374886100 956153 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want mirrors shaped like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ferrofluid_Magnet_under_glass_edit.jpg < 1374886109 27078 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@70.72.84.129 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374886111 306286 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1374886112 476354 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrofluid_mirror < 1374886114 716922 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a thing < 1374886119 518713 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mirror also reflects forward/backward because each thing has the same distance to the mirror in the image (presumably), such as a paper placed at a right angle to the mirror. If you then stand backward, it is rotated to how it looks correctly, just as if you look through a paper to the words on the other side, or if you have in front of you correctly then the mirror of the other side is also the correct order! < 1374886131 455692 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're apparently used in adaptive optics? < 1374886145 456097 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you put a mirror above you, then the "forward" is actually up/down, so it will be apparently "up/down" reversed instead. See? < 1374886150 176353 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay ferrofluids :D < 1374886168 196182 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is what I think is the reason for the mirror reflect things left-to-right but not up-to-down. Do you think so, or not? < 1374886223 386231 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374886228 846486 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1374886299 396249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because if you look at the back of a paper and with enough light you can see the words on the other side through it, then it is also mirrored. Just like, if you look through something it is the other side, but you are looking at it through the other side through the axis of the mirror. < 1374886321 549171 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ferrofluid mirrors are commonly used" -- there exists one research group doing it < 1374886331 36364 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love ferrofluid < 1374886339 926596 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and magnets and monoids and hugz < 1374886342 696204 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferrofluid = fun < 1374886354 177839 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs kmc  < 1374886358 366365 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let states = [0..2]; addCharCost charCostMap costs ch = [ minimum [ costs !! s1 + charCostMap s1 s2 ch | s1 <- states ] | s2 <- states ]; stringCost charCostMap startState (c:cs) = foldl' (addCharCost charCostMap) [charCostMap startState s c | s <- states] cs in stringCost < 1374886359 66470 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Num t, Ord t) => (Int -> Int -> b -> t) -> Int -> [b] -> [t] < 1374886362 998406 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ^ < 1374886371 285904 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D *hugs back* < 1374886380 986456 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awkward when you hug someone and they don't hug back........... < 1374886387 757337 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember lambdabot :D < 1374886391 747389 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: O, thank you. < 1374886399 426669 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ^v < 1374886406 793233 :douglass_!~thiotimol@home.pointlesstopology.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374886429 68076 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's good to hug huggy people! < 1374886431 357057 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: was a bit awkward to get it started because the costs from a state to another are not well defined for an empty string < 1374886434 386938 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hug kmc < 1374886438 126637 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs kmc < 1374886443 847657 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that new? < 1374886448 816965 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs lambdabot back < 1374886461 296747 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fsvo new < 1374886494 707077 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also that's probably not optimal haskell (e.g. !!) so consider it like a pseudocode < 1374886547 827104 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes, that's OK. My program is in C anyways; I just wanted a code because it might be understandable better than something that isn't. So, a code in Haskell is OK too. < 1374886686 19224 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There was an old woman who swallowed a spider, / That wriggled and jiggled and tickled in cider" < 1374886694 526857 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So thank you for that I will use that. < 1374886726 686903 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Did you mean to put some punctuation in that sentence? E.g. "So thank you for that. I will use that." < 1374886734 517188 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it's kind of hard to to read. < 1374886784 677339 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I suppose so. < 1374887130 990490 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1374887280 998308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: as zzo38 mentions, a mirror actually reflects forward/backward. it's just that the human mind reanalyzes this as a rotation about a vertical line through the mirror (which is a physically plausible thing to do) followed by a left/right reflection (which is not physically plausible, but probably because of human body left/right symmetry still an intuitive operation.) < 1374887287 97831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo. < 1374887365 359084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: imo that's true but incomplete < 1374887369 898963 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, a human image in the mirror looks _almost_ like it's just a human standing rotated around a mirror vertical "axis". < 1374887378 348916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the elevators in this building are covered in mirrors and have super unflattering light and the only way to avoid staring at yourself is to stare at the advertising screen < 1374887383 799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well played elevator people < 1374887420 809753 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that puzzle is this: i'm wearing a shirt with some text on it. i stand in front of the mirror. the picture i see in the mirror is definitely reflected left/right < 1374887437 580003 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if i refect it along that axis i'll be able to read it < 1374887451 581533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo defeat them with narcissism < 1374887499 700299 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: well but you cannot read your shirt _without_ a mirror, right? without a mirror you would want to take it off to read it easily, essentially performing the rotation. < 1374887560 989275 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok let's keep my shirt on for this exercise < 1374887576 370089 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bummer_and_Lazarus famous dogs of san francisco < 1374887589 979831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let's say we have a sign < 1374887608 140337 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the picture you see is definitely reflected left/right corresponding to what an actual person in front of you would look like - but an actual person in front of you looks approximately like you rotated around the vertical axis between you (but unreflected) < 1374887627 10962 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says IO. i put it up to the mirror and i read OI. < 1374887630 720872 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a team they turned out to be exceptional, once finishing off 85 rats in 20 minutes < 1374887678 410000 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you dont say? < 1374887680 50553 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way i've heard it explained is that it's not really a left right rotation,a s you can tell from making "L"s with your fingers < 1374887693 619846 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually i think you have m. or l. the same answer in mind as i do < 1374887698 840671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are expressing it differently?? maybe < 1374887705 191008 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: i do. now i just have to get shachaf to understand it :P < 1374887736 590036 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i understand it!! < 1374887750 660298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i guess oerjan is saying approximately the truth < 1374887800 620229 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chirality hth < 1374887804 501988 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374887862 910055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i like to thin of a cut out sign, rather than a sign printed on paper or something < 1374887868 870322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is p. much the same thing < 1374887874 961686 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1374887948 780234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wtf there is too much log to read today. < 1374887952 814224 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION closes < 1374887958 470773 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow oerjan < 1374887962 58460 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there was an olist update < 1374887987 720454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it would have to have been hid inside your quoerjans, i assume < 1374888001 620613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think the reason for the left/right reflection is simply because it follows the rotation about a vertical line; symmetry of your body doesn't necessarily have anything to do with it (although I suppose it helps with the "illusion"). < 1374888002 460858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that was all i could find searching for my nick. < 1374888016 610761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quoerjan < 1374888018 150876 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1036) i vaguely thought sigbovik was all jokes? oerjan: jokes written by CS people, so none of it's funny, just sad < 1374888031 494709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a good quote < 1374888039 970983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's more of a quike than a quoerjan < 1374888044 140292 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, you should stop doing `quoerjans hth < 1374888054 681823 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quachaf < 1374888056 80526 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :531) elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed. \ 605) VMS Mosaic? I hope that's not Mosaic ported to VMS. Hmm. It's Mosaic ported to VMS. \ 615) * Sgeo|web wants to see elliott be wrong about < 1374888059 290562 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Bike: harsh < 1374888065 30839 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SIGBOVIK is pretty funny < 1374888071 290367 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's r. bad < 1374888079 71862 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hey i wasn't the one saying it wasn't funny < 1374888102 61209 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :when is a bike not a bike < 1374888164 50529 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how long do you have to not write any rust before you can say you're """"""""rusty" < 1374888222 662057 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1374888228 110849 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I write a JIT for FRACTRAN < 1374888273 441102 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRACTRAN? < 1374888277 962816 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like a JIT but for FRACTRAN < 1374888282 412852 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374888285 821875 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not write an EARLY instead < 1374888313 910868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :a NEARLY < 1374888324 42928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo write a JTL < 1374888335 341325 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL uses a just-too-late compiler < 1374888335 651181 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a day late and dollar short compiler < 1374888338 510838 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some variation on that name < 1374888339 71743 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1374888344 281074 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATF < 1374888345 831428 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's really crazy < 1374888360 880935 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this incomprehensible mix of perl and bootstrapped compiler involving weird bytecode and stuff < 1374888400 880991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: imo you should write a jit that jumps to unmapped pages and then compiles code into them in the page fault handler < 1374888426 960237 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1374888466 892100 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Send it to lkml < 1374888513 141751 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: How did you come across this channel? < 1374888541 162204 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: magic :) < 1374888589 553558 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally. Which magic? < 1374888597 592979 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :more magic < 1374888603 242110 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of my interest in esolangs. < 1374888613 324008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1374888621 232125 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and search engines < 1374888662 782229 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you use a camera which is capable to picture a mirror then according to the orientation of the camera it will be a picture of the camera with the X coordinate reversed, regardless how the camera is pointing. < 1374888724 852250 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The picture can then be easily reversed again to the correct orientation using the computer, so you will have the proper picture of the camera. < 1374889245 964141 :tswett!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :My answer to the question of why mirrors flip things left-to-right is that they don't. < 1374889267 453195 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett: that answer is correct but incomplete < 1374889282 173913 :tswett!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're wearing a T-shirt, how come the beginning of the text appears to be on your right in the mirror, and the end of the text appears to be on your left? Because the beginning of the text really is on your right, and likewise. < 1374889326 444804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is true. < 1374889436 613313 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have explained all of these thing too. < 1374889451 416894 :tswett!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :So currently I'm trying to implement Hylisk in too many languages at once. < 1374889458 456907 :tswett!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell, Idris, and Hylisk. < 1374889482 522964 :tswett!~tswett@ec2-23-23-86-149.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll switch to doing it in Idris only. < 1374889608 613996 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: Which esolangs interested you, or in general, or ? < 1374889709 454553 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh man, there are so many < 1374889794 15029 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: That is correct. But do you know what things resulted in your interested in esolangs? < 1374889822 484601 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it is a general interest, seeing how far you can push the idea of what it means to be a language. < 1374889858 505016 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are all the standard esolangs like BF and unlambda, thats what originally got me interested < 1374889883 64300 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that it was really all over the place, i think the esolang wiki is a great resource < 1374889949 505188 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also like INTERCAL. < 1374889979 315178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duff also write a article about prehistory of esoteric programming. < 1374890000 294562 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :im actually on the wiki right now, let me see if i can find some of my favorites.. < 1374890014 355261 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive heard a tiny bit about intercal < 1374890019 524781 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about? < 1374890162 426135 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man, im reading the wiki page < 1374890167 205493 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks pretty bad < 1374890175 425198 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very polite language! you have to say please. < 1374890182 16265 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it also had COME FROM < 1374890219 218428 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, apparently google even has a style guide for it? < 1374890269 726117 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374890395 316096 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep :D < 1374890441 585772 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an old joke. < 1374890638 645957 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen ion < 1374890642 496426 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-07-26 16:33:46: Oh, wasn’t #esoteric-nonblah for that? < 1374890718 787645 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless. It should tell you *how long ago*. < 1374890984 836799 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We forgot to welcome CADD < 1374890990 856887 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome CADD < 1374890993 537723 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​05CADD:10 Welc14o07me to the international hub05 for es06oteric04 programming language d07esign and 02deploym03ent! For more13 informati08on, che09ck12 out o11ur10 wik02i: ht13tp:/08/esolangs.org06/wiki/08M02ain_Pa12g08e. (For the oth12er k04in02d of e07sot04erica, tr14y #es13oteric on irc.dal.03net.) < 1374891007 646982 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG! XD < 1374891012 677084 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it! < 1374891013 806994 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I didn't. < 1374891022 670805 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats true! < 1374891084 88142 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-63-186.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374891233 908035 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-166-65.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374891321 477730 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen shachaf < 1374891326 178026 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-07-27 02:10:13: Sgeo: I didn't. < 1374893115 971021 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the minimum number of clues that has to be selected in Jeopardy! before your score is unrecoverably non-positive? < 1374893222 622325 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming only one player (you) ever does anything, you give incorrect responses for the first N clues, you give correct responses for the rest of the clues, and you always bet the maximum allowed for daily doubles) < 1374893249 2353 :Bike!~Glossina@75-164-166-65.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374893378 802507 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374893776 440131 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1374894103 814290 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374894133 764637 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:01 No, that doesn't look right. Fix it, please. < 1374894150 593936 :hr_!~quassel@174-16-174-172.hlrn.qwest.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374894154 672923 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what doesn't < 1374895150 704327 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374895202 26284 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374895312 227091 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1374895344 26897 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374895349 906110 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374895609 5411 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374895815 356693 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.137.83 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1374896084 8844 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374896344 532764 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It is the optimal list of state transitions I want to calculate, not the cost, though. < 1374896694 716691 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: very well then, keep the list of transitions with the minimum cost to get there... < 1374896814 27517 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374896879 257196 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374896939 947944 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, for each step n, as you calculate the cost for each state, include the previous state in the optimal path to it. < 1374897657 571188 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1374897661 912307 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :its now my birthday < 1374897743 15206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo HAPPY BIRTHDAY ^v | colorize < 1374897744 459306 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: colorize: command not found < 1374897754 240892 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did they rename it again < 1374897760 522910 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1374897770 436064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run ls bin/*rain* < 1374897772 252042 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin/rainbow \ bin/rainwords < 1374897783 195326 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo HAPPY BIRTHDAY ^v | rainbow < 1374897785 19201 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​1206H03A13PP04Y 05B02I10R07T14HD04A02Y14 14^v13 < 1374897790 797778 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D Ty < 1374897977 378501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a sad rainbow < 1374897987 841985 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but irregardless, happy birthday ^V! < 1374898021 44544 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1374898062 605354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym irreguardless hth < 1374898739 732214 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1374898770 364740 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm losing track of all the acronyms < 1374898851 779883 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never had track < 1374898856 72239 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just been imitating them markov-style < 1374898862 591304 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1374898869 982423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1374898872 890361 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1374899036 340706 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm drinking ``ChocoVine'' < 1374899044 79768 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mixture of red wine and chocolate syrup < 1374899048 930311 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :``uh oh'' < 1374899060 520609 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric : but is it good < 1374899066 941367 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I bought something called Choco-rite Protein and you know that's good because the name sounds like a parody of food" < 1374899071 571362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's........... better than you would expect < 1374899081 246246 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know what i'd expect < 1374899088 530472 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOGTV - Welcome to DOGTV The First Television Channel for dogs < 1374899098 500071 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never even had wine (should i have wine (i like grapes and stuff is that like wine)) < 1374899100 901330 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of the river hu < 1374899109 13501 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i forget the name of the river and also how that actually goes. < 1374899118 830075 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever had fruit thats gone fermented < 1374899128 620498 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :like what < 1374899132 546607 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything < 1374899139 160786 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :grapes, pomegranate, < 1374899146 854507 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had grapes and pomegranates < 1374899147 57361 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn, hao, not hu. < 1374899152 57116 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think they were fermented < 1374899161 361751 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lived in israel for n years and you never had wine? < 1374899165 542665 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That apple you forgot to put in the fridge for a month < 1374899169 271080 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: crazy huh < 1374899173 610431 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you should try wine sometime, it's p. good < 1374899186 567120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did turn wine down at various occasions including the celebratory kind < 1374899189 281802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow we could buy a bottle of wine and split it, it's a friendly thing to do < 1374899189 514364 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly that, really) < 1374899193 837548 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cathy doesn't like wine :/ < 1374899205 17461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a euphemism for breaking the glass < 1374899211 950146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is splitting the bottle like splitting the atom < 1374899225 863620 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just break the glass and then try to kill each other with the shards. < 1374899233 965029 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf is splitting hairs. < 1374899242 399966 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: never bring a gun to a wine fight < 1374899276 17517 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet didn't acknowledge my pun :'( < 1374899282 827550 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:06 * dmwit looks forward to the blog post: "My bug cost my company $300 of prototyping plastic" < 1374899285 827832 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:06 Is that, like, a few pounds of plastic < 1374899288 386295 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07 about ten kilograms < 1374899290 849298 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:07 Jafet: It's 195.02 pounds of plastic at the current exchange rate. < 1374899293 858728 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because it was bad < 1374899354 240092 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :in retrospect probably < 1374899364 820910 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid it was such a good pun that I didn't notice it < 1374899391 612143 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're such a good pun that i didn't notice you :'( < 1374899407 50217 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBP ain't what it used to be < 1374899421 577146 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :USD ain't what it used to be, neither < 1374899436 705006 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly so < 1374899442 493472 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! mass or money < 1374899444 372390 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it!! < 1374899513 911861 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :your GP or your HP! < 1374899577 44322 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or your ?P! < 1374899597 682666 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hadkoens kmc < 1374899599 650797 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hadokens < 1374899616 13608 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now CNY, that's how you fly < 1374899648 201650 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some keep XAU, that's fine too < 1374899661 550041 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But PHP is NOK. < 1374899976 793167 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1374899983 112042 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1374900273 121116 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tremulous vs Natural Selection 2 < 1374900278 905706 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I feel kind of torn < 1374900306 274173 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :NS2 has a commander on each team, reminds me a bit of Allegiance < 1374900343 103472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thank you it works! < 1374900567 39673 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374900703 194821 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you're welcome < 1374900721 447158 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats Jafet for comparing PHP with NOK -----### < 1374900774 751206 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will never use php again < 1374900781 346382 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lua webservers > all < 1374900822 722946 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: lolol haskell webservers > lua webservers > all < 1374900830 914149 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1374900838 836912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: The HTTP service included in Synchronet uses JavaScript for server-side programs (Synchronet also uses JavaScript for BBS door programs, and for other things) < 1374900876 144951 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1374900892 135966 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I suppose with the correct software, you can make a server which is using Lua scripting, Forth, C, C++, or whatever. < 1374900895 856340 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshell isnt as good as lua < 1374900899 915623 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1374900917 741992 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the best joke you could come up with? :P < 1374900975 45772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Synchronet can also use DOS programs and native programs for BBS door programs, but I think server-side scripting of webpages in Synchronet is JavaScript only.) < 1374900992 467338 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell blows lua out of the water. < 1374900999 584761 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive made with lua: irc bot, irc server, http server, minecraft rcon, pretty much everything possible in computercraft, making a unnecicarily powerful love2d script to controll random things in MC < 1374901007 916025 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both in language merits and community size.. ;) < 1374901017 313650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey now no troll flame wars < 1374901027 884227 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can make many things, with many programming languages. < 1374901029 135414 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :My community is bigger than yours < 1374901055 784800 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell and Lua are for different ways so they are good for different purpose; Lua may be good for imperative and Haskell for functional, for example. < 1374901062 650041 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true facts: http://sogrady-media.redmonk.com/sogrady/files/2013/02/lang-rank-Q113-big.png < 1374901078 626133 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok, i wont stir anything up < 1374901115 673764 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really love that chart, its probably one of my favorite visualizations. < 1374901148 117218 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what would cause a language to deviate from the line a lot. < 1374901162 50879 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have my own theories < 1374901175 844571 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the bottom half have more code than people talking about them < 1374901184 455419 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the top has more people talking than coding < 1374901196 707232 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have the far outliers like vimL < 1374901205 516830 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are "utility" langs < 1374901215 546612 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with elisp < 1374901223 976425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Utility" langs? < 1374901252 823626 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp is very down too though. < 1374901258 664474 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i pulled that one right out of my ass. :) but i think it is an apt description. < 1374901272 174943 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, the further down you go the less that correlation holds < 1374901275 891259 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the fact that the two rankings don't match linearly < 1374901295 616695 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is treu too < 1374901297 981803 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :true* < 1374901341 492804 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, this scale is only for Stack Overflow and GitHub. For example, on OpenCores there is probably a lot more Verilog and VHDL programs than C programs and so on. < 1374901386 135176 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah thats opencores for you. you would expect that < 1374901405 425463 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is expected. < 1374901413 759334 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say haskell is underrepresented because of the heavy use of hackage and cabal < 1374901425 757080 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, things like that too. < 1374901433 733499 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Eine kleine Nachtmusik < 1374901443 211195 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think the neatest thing about the graph is the 3 clusters < 1374901470 115031 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make an analogy to the situaion in the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world countries, the same goes for languages < 1374901473 190704 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess probably it is. < 1374901495 276333 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this graph just really shows it very well < 1374901511 11633 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if I want to live in a first-world language. < 1374901521 496128 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, yeah they are all boring < 1374901652 396753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some other programming languages I sometimes use and didn't see in there, such as Csound and SQL, and it says "Assembly" but doesn't really mean for what computers it is an assembly language of. < 1374901720 494429 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, since its based on githubs language categorization < 1374901726 282838 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no dots next to the words. < 1374901795 390889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: How good is GitHub's language categorization? < 1374901799 692748 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you think that would that be vertical or horizontal categorization? < 1374901815 620344 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you can see for yourself. < 1374901848 456093 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol i dont mean that in a snarky way, just a sec. im pulling up a page < 1374901850 829963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, there is Visual Basic Classic and Visual Basic .NET; they didn't mention that either. < 1374901865 441054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: I didn't expect you to mean that in a snarky way. < 1374901874 523237 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It just says "Visual Basic".) < 1374901900 595119 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i remember there being a page with all the languages github supports.. < 1374901915 600958 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/languages < 1374901917 157041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't suppport SQL? < 1374901935 217174 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think so < 1374901962 786076 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: What? < 1374901976 954887 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't put SQL on that chart, because it would overlap with the PHP label. < 1374901993 451577 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we were talking about githubs "language categorization". < 1374902024 30082 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Overlap how much? I don't really expect it to. < 1374902044 678615 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(especially since there is two axis.) < 1374902171 465002 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Do you even have the data? Would the number of programs and number of discussions both match that of PHP? < 1374902607 437888 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was "a joke" < 1374902639 771585 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then, because I didn't believe it anyways. < 1374902813 987201 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The github ranking is based on what language a github program thinks a subset of your repository is written in < 1374902832 72138 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's p. reliable < 1374902923 678827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That question I asked of oerjan, it is about encoding text in Z-machine format. Infocom never implemented this algorithm (and instead used only temporary shifts), leading Graham Nelson to believe that there are no permanent shifts in version 3. But I know how the Z-machine really works and implemented it properly. < 1374902969 120019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: Still, they have a lot of programming langauges and yet they still forgot SQL? < 1374903030 670361 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, yes. < 1374903203 548615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What do you think of hugs? < 1374903243 978109 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I don't know? < 1374903327 105359 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so do you have any tomorrowplanz < 1374903328 784091 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374903348 309524 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise i'll p. show up in sf "sometime" < 1374903348 751713 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1374903352 285608 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's fine < 1374903366 194244 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some computerthings to do sometime during the day but i d. think it matters exactly when < 1374903449 800372 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could presumably show up in sf and stare at a laptop screen for a bit (seems to be a popular thing to do around where you live) and see < 1374903899 284850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show up in science-fiction. < 1374903938 685072 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a popular activity < 1374903945 521078 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say that you're ``co-working'' < 1374904152 294693 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374904245 249101 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the dual of working < 1374904274 374585 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe so < 1374904968 908794 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :When founding a startup, remember the most important thing: colocation, colocation, colocation < 1374905990 297120 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: remember when were all, like, "you probably all think i'm a huge stoner but really i only [inhale the fumes of a burning cannabis plant] once every few months" < 1374906013 915398 :^v!~Pixel@c-71-238-152-180.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374906021 819184 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1374906026 159953 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might say something about me < 1374906038 6986 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a while ago. in #-blah, i think < 1374906041 260883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1374906046 775349 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might not be remebering the exact quote < 1374906064 616750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was "a few times this year" or something < 1374906070 753956 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to inhale the fumes extracted by passing hot air over a cannabis plant which is not actually burning < 1374906073 748715 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1374906106 294703 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't smoke weed very often from 2008 to last month < 1374906110 987935 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly on some visits to Caltech and SF < 1374906132 970740 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now everyday? < 1374906144 795121 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most days? < 1374906205 738579 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEzhxP-pdos high < 1374906228 936528 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1374906336 249497 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :balls < 1374906488 857500 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how high are you right now on a scale of dead sea to mt everest < 1374906502 681819 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Euophrys omnisuperstes, a minute black jumping spider, has been found at elevations as high as 6,700 metres (22,000 ft), possibly making it the highest confirmed non-microscopic permanent resident on Earth.» < 1374906578 164175 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :«In 2008 a colony of bumble bees were discovered on Mount Everest at more than 5,600 metres above sea level,» < 1374906599 472505 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I drank some ChocoVine, that's all < 1374906737 205124 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1374907043 975800 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: http://arxiv.org/abs/1307.1409 okay these are awesome and amazing wow < 1374907050 739087 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374907074 729185 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, the equation of state for neutron stars basically lets them be a little bit more massive without collapsing, as long as they're rotating < 1374907080 357076 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but magnetic braking will cause them to slow down < 1374907112 781157 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so neutron stars in that mass range will one day slow down just enough that an event horizon forms at their core... < 1374907117 851172 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 0.15 milliseconds later, disappear < 1374907256 361878 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops. < 1374907260 346015 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but magnetic field lines can't cross the event horizon < 1374907268 663116 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so suddenly the neutron star magnetic field is caught without, um, a neutron star < 1374907294 327993 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so while the neutron star will disappear silently, you have like, a field of a billion or more tesla snapping < 1374907319 404452 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which produces this super short but rather loud radio burst < 1374907371 676362 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1374907397 702934 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it sound like a numbers station < 1374907403 523090 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking universe < 1374907408 530732 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it sounds like a boop with a quick ringdown afterwards? < 1374907421 544757 :sprocklem!~sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374907428 170961 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :boop *volume larger than planet earth disappears* < 1374907443 719462 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the neutron star is only like, 15km in radius! < 1374907446 152969 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not that big. < 1374907725 795598 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1374907734 405308 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So only everybody I've interacted with in the last several months. < 1374907741 522584 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1374907748 934086 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's ok then < 1374907749 434274 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: imo move to california < 1374907867 817760 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION -> bike -> pointless < 1374908688 717506 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shapiro_delay oh wow. they can use this to measure the mass of neutron stars < 1374908907 754635 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/1010.5788 eeee oh gosh now I want to spend all night reading these < 1374908966 207255 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm spending the night reading scp foundation articles apparently < 1374908974 28923 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you may have made the superior decision < 1374909022 979629 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :does supramassive mean the same as supermassive or really small or what? latin prefixes are hard < 1374909039 917883 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not very massive, honestly" < 1374909053 867311 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means supermassive, i.e. above the limit? < 1374909151 248828 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, I just sort of vaguely remembered that supra was the opposite of super but I guess I misremembered < 1374909159 60918 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure >_< < 1374909162 993329 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought the same thing < 1374909164 155777 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know what it meant in the article < 1374909184 541016 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1374909199 666020 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if they're not opposites then that's good. because "supermassive" and "supramassive" meaning the opposite thing despite being spelled and pronounced really similarly would just be ridiciulous. < 1374909228 138067 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn supramassive < 1374909230 470302 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "supramassive". < 1374909291 922690 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's "above" < 1374909357 134587 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ʳᵃᵐᵃˢˢⁱᵛᵉ < 1374909368 365694 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ᵉʳᵐᵃˢˢⁱᵛᵉ < 1374909370 274725 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1374909723 997310 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :glaciers melting in the dead of night < 1374909740 331107 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my previous ACTION is a lie; I have been detoured to lexande's apartment < 1374909747 51341 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit < 1374909761 856091 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lexande's apartment < 1374909793 40819 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called "convox" < 1374909887 382178 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374910562 324684 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374911701 613785 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1374912074 524048 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374912197 764042 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374912505 972486 :dessos!~dessos@c-174-60-176-249.hsd1.pa.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374912832 968380 :douglass!~thiotimol@home.pointlesstopology.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1374913567 288004 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1374913655 871370 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, Vorpal < 1374913720 593752 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1374913749 144697 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, am I allowed to just start reading OotS from where it is now without bothering to read the archives? < 1374913787 364746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Probably not the best way to do it. < 1374913791 706759 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you're allowed to. < 1374913800 223924 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I tried to read it before and couldn't get into it < 1374913815 325506 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beginning is very different. < 1374913822 300466 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :It started out as D&D jokes. < 1374913867 778301 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe the first 50-100 strips or something? < 1374913932 662437 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have some completionist tendencies, though, so probably adjust what I say to account for that. < 1374914320 454632 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boingboing.net/2013/07/26/uk-censorwall-will-also-block.html UK censorware will block "esoteric material" < 1374914547 866850 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1374914548 693795 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1374914586 711007 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...web forums? < 1374914595 57899 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems ridiculously broad < 1374914598 127319 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :"web blocking circumvention tools' < 1374914602 989947 :Lymia!~moe@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean like ssh? < 1374914970 935491 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374915200 944165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i have a new ""profile picture"" < 1374915423 64390 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1374915495 134538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly just temporary < 1374915559 817548 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. funny, though. the usual story is that, once a blocking infrastructure is in place for naughty (or even illegal) things, it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to general censorship. < 1374915578 344500 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a lot more efficient. < 1374916143 572519 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"suicide related websites" like suicide support charities? < 1374916203 793178 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, where should I change my profile picture to make it visible? < 1374916223 960035 :douglass!~thiotimol@home.pointlesstopology.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374918294 81414 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1374918354 968097 :MBEFDC!~PircBot@05416b48.skybroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1374918408 849082 :MBEFDC!~PircBot@05416b48.skybroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374918734 809418 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374918775 418672 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374919183 727400 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm looking at the TURT test output, is it supposed to set the background to #000001?? < 1374919351 521214 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because that is what I'm seeing in the N call < 1374919409 970254 :MBEFDC!~PircBot@05416b48.skybroadband.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1374919492 991634 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, makes it very hard to check that it works correctly, especially if you don't output vector graphics like I do (and thus can just open it up in inkscape and remove the background) < 1374919499 647575 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since the pen colour is the same! < 1374919639 871617 :MBEFDC!~PircBot@05416b48.skybroadband.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374919732 357766 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1374919792 475931 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374920041 695485 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf. hachaf. < 1374920058 618386 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I’ll be back in a bit. < 1374920842 892686 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374920857 284192 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 NICK :Guest31302 < 1374920886 203151 :Guest31302!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1374921253 785495 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1374921696 494851 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374922081 473705 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yeah it seems to call everything with (the appropriate number of) 1s on the stack to check that they pop the right amount of values < 1374922166 11172 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374922298 89786 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, might be worth considering changing that, it would be horrible to check the current output if you use bitmap graphics < 1374922330 524142 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, might even help ensure someone doesn't mix up RGB if you use some other colour than #001 < 1374922354 78544 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's kinda crap right now < 1374922435 237998 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374923167 397078 :clog!~nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1374923558 33517 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:ae81:12ff:fe32:878a JOIN :#esoteric < 1374923572 828313 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:ae81:12ff:fe32:878a QUIT :Client Quit < 1374923845 797009 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374925006 218590 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Played around a bit with LTO. No measurable speed difference that I can see in my case. About 2-10% smaller executable for an LTO build compared to a non-LTO build with otherwise the same flags < 1374925022 596243 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 2% with -O3 and about 10% with -Os < 1374925026 198938 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using GCC 4.8 < 1374925378 293911 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1374925514 743476 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly your enterprise library interfaces were not nested deeply enough < 1374925590 160983 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, quite so, I only use libc, librt, libncurses. All of them linked dynamically < 1374925663 214495 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, also the executable is still below 200 K in all cases. < 1374925693 818371 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I enable debug info of course < 1374926408 37277 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1374926539 856921 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 200 K like -73 degrees celsius < 1374926554 634583 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, yeah my software is really cool < 1374926882 527989 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In other news, I think now may be a good time to get dressed < 1374926890 600421 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before I have to use any of Vorpal's software < 1374926995 129600 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :TANEB AWAY < 1374926995 615586 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-148-233.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1374927174 13255 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mushspace pretty much needs LTO because it doesn't use macros for even the smallest things unless necessary < 1374927212 625926 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it has functions like add(int x, int y) { return (int)((unsigned)x + (unsigned)y); } < 1374927217 825030 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is mushspace? < 1374927232 490509 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's my Funge-Space library < 1374927239 566451 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfinished < 1374927246 486024 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? What are your plans for it? < 1374927256 539282 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, to finish it :-) < 1374927263 383253 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what to use it for < 1374927270 812447 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pretty much the one in CCBI2 translated to C and improved in lots of ways < 1374927300 529843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it's done I'll write a new interpreter, probably also in C < 1374927352 700986 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I should see at some point just how much faster it'll be without LTO if I turn that kind of stuff into macros < 1374927356 290662 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be amusing < 1374927377 178533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Also I found a somewhat serious bug by fuzz testing, I seem to not properly handle at least one case of malloc returning NULL. < 1374927388 324522 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure where yet, it is somewhat tricky to debug < 1374927446 22958 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: rebooting < 1374927449 247070 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :How are you testing that? < 1374927649 44513 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1374927706 73130 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, with ulimit + fuzz test script that invokes valgrind as one step < 1374927736 891993 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a define that enables an alarm()-call in main() to handle terminating the program after 3 seconds. < 1374927759 140059 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ulimit in linux makes malloc return null? < 1374927774 478039 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, at least in some cases < 1374927798 957795 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you use random ulimits or do you just have some known small value < 1374927856 927069 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, atm I just assign 128 MB to the various memory limits, since I was actually trying to test STRN rather than malloc, it just happened to hit some sort of massive stack it appears in the randomly generated program. < 1374927870 912435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used random values in ranges for it before though < 1374927894 264210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since there is a minimum that makes sense, if ld.so fails to load stuff due to memory limits, that is of no interest) < 1374927993 910190 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Right, fixed that memory leak. Turned out to be a realloc call assigning without checking for NULL first, leading to a memory leak detected by valgrind < 1374928032 522336 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I haven't figured out a good way to not also apply the ulimits to valgrind as well, I guess I could add them into the cfunge main() though... < 1374928272 240955 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just have valgrind run a shell script that sets ulimits and exec's cfunge? < 1374928289 32664 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Does valgrind follow that hm < 1374928311 39775 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want stuff from the shell messing up < 1374928314 751087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think it follows exec's, given that it follows forks too. < 1374928329 967958 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I won't get leak reports from the shell? < 1374928358 781852 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently you need a --trace-children=yes for it to follow across exec. < 1374928375 50421 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1374928391 389783 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you could make a program that calls setrlimit and runs cfunge. < 1374928393 703087 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a --trace-children-skip which "can be useful for pruning uninteresting branches from a tree of processes being run on Valgrind". < 1374928424 502919 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that doesn't work, though, since it wouldn't follow the children of the skipped shell. < 1374928430 624037 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, or since I have an alarm() call inside an ifdef in it anyway I could just add the setrlimit call there < 1374928471 16509 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need a small perl script to prune the reports about the shell process < 1374928513 194520 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or shell script < 1374928530 911789 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you can use a shell script to do it < 1374928563 471512 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any shell script that parses text is, by construction, going to be a wrapper around another script < 1374928630 65029 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm when I set the rlimit in main() it still seems to affect valgrind??? < 1374928636 242220 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will need some investigation < 1374928800 813098 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you set a limit on your executable's process, which is the valgrind process, it affects the valgrind process, which is your executable's process. < 1374928879 681019 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, oh right, valgrind runs the instrumented process inside itself, doesn't it... < 1374928883 910922 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well crap < 1374928889 194368 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1374928914 813712 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I will just put it at a sufficiently high number to not make a mess of the system if it runs out of control < 1374928956 222185 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For purely the malloc-returns-NULL testing, you can always opt for a wrapper malloc. < 1374928968 322357 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, but that is somewhat more annoying < 1374928977 227955 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I use mmap directly in a couple of places iirc < 1374929165 261699 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's conceptually simple, valgrind/memcheck is just a virtual machine for malloc. < 1374929358 539933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrrm < 1374930246 203448 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I was preparing for an automated testing system that'd use a fixed random seed and try to get fungot-babble to misbehave, and testing with nc -l 6667 about what sort of interaction I'd need to provide... when I got the bug to manifest, with a random seed of 0, on my first comment. < 1374930246 486276 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there is an html file < 1374930255 168584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably see if that's repeatable. < 1374930349 328753 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh did you do that now? < 1374930359 617552 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome discovery < 1374930379 463451 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is indeed repeatable. < 1374930399 258379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, should be somewhat easy to debug. < 1374930428 423217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I skip one completely inconsequential line (a ^style without arguments) it no longer happens; probably because it changes the state of the input buffer. < 1374930445 104739 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I just got it to segfault somehow < 1374930448 890045 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1374930459 983588 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a NULL stackstack < 1374930461 918419 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting < 1374930467 46687 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: where's the html file? < 1374930467 278330 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: when we told him that ' fnord by the odd syntax i just invented < 1374930747 383730 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord fungot fnord fungot fnord < 1374930747 624967 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: that would be of no use to anyone. and i also share some ideas with italian fascism but those generally also fall under the term marxism... < 1374930829 940172 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, something goes wrong when I have >3300 threads, then I end up with a NULL stackstack on IP 3320 or so < 1374931113 204019 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having three thousand (nptl) threads does tend to coincide with being wrong < 1374931122 651126 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, these are user space threads < 1374931142 680617 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, Having 3000 funge threads is pretty wrong too though < 1374931165 926385 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rightly so. < 1374931189 601346 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, but it is a randomly generated program from fuzz testing, so these things shouldn't be surprising < 1374931199 952024 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides I should be able to handle malloc returning NULL < 1374931223 782303 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your funge program can malloc? < 1374931230 753909 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No ATHR so no actual threads :-/ < 1374931233 717690 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, no my funge interpreter does < 1374931245 174952 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is some experimental support for it in efunge < 1374931270 562452 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you implement the malloc fingerprint < 1374931290 691947 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know that existed. RCfunge one? < 1374931297 248859 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I don't implement it < 1374931300 882402 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like something you can detect with grep. < 1374931304 241129 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I forget what it's called < 1374931321 427574 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do of course have some fingerprints that need to malloc internally, but none that is explicitly for mallocing < 1374931325 487897 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMEM < 1374931331 884556 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, don't implement that < 1374931352 963233 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the stackstack 0 when the *stack* is non-zero < 1374931358 867932 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374931387 271161 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the ip contains a direct pointer to the active stack < 1374931388 596686 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1374931392 505813 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo **/*.c | grep malloc -A1 | grep -v NULL < 1374931413 747265 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, might me a realloc that is failing, I don't know < 1374931463 226425 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm the stack is 23268 entries. Not bad < 1374931578 538435 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a memory leak though, but it doesn't explain what I'm seeing < 1374931603 518487 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.137.83 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374931832 681706 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374931896 200253 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I have been thinking about another possible pseudo-async-threads idea that would be easier to implement btw. Basically have a fingerprint that modifies stuff like SOCK that can block so that other concurrent-funge threads will continue to run while that is blocked. < 1374931917 457399 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it is similar to what python ends up doing < 1374932470 1086 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm, if t fails due to out of memory, should the program just exit? I seem to remember it something was supposed to reflect on OOM but I can't find it in the spec atm < 1374932522 676238 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh it was { that could do that < 1374932523 655416 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1374933270 945504 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :From some preliminary investigations, it would seem that the babbling code -- occasionally, when the generated string is overlong -- accidentally pops off the "current position in input buffer" value. < 1374933275 439016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for some reason there's the value "1730" under it, I don't know what that number is. < 1374933361 548513 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's 17*100 + 30 < 1374933383 416332 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A real debugger to run this in would be nice. < 1374933393 529014 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is also 2*5*173 < 1374933401 71036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, gdb works < 1374933415 562509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess, but a more funge-oriented one would still be better. < 1374933428 154947 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, etc/example.gdbinit has some helpful stuff < 1374933456 683373 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or you could use the debugger in ccbi, as far as I remember it was kind of okayish, though far less useful than gdb in general < 1374933493 415186 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I suppose brkcell would be mostly what I need. Or I guess the brkinst also works for undefined instructions? < 1374933515 425146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Pretty sure it does, remember you need debug symbols < 1374933540 702101 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway did you actually end up executing an undefined instruction? < 1374933581 625901 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you can also use -W and -E to cfunge to show warnings and non-fatal errors < 1374933597 299602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not enabled by default since they would affect standard conformance < 1374933624 207391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, I was just thinking of using an undefined instruction as a "source breakpoint" thing with that gdb brkinst. < 1374933624 450250 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :1730_10 = 11011000010_2 < 1374933634 335081 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh yeah that would work < 1374933642 649070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since then I don't have to compute the y offsets manually.) < 1374933815 663723 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I'll just use 'z', since I don't have any real z's. < 1374933886 78157 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having a very strange memory leak here on OOM < 1374933951 117710 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm leaking exactly 1 stack, 3 opcode stacks and one stackstack. Very strange < 1374933981 22774 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'd reflect whenever possible, including on OOM < 1374934020 911704 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Hm. I went with the fatal error instead in this case < 1374934064 469713 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the interpreter should ever die if it can avoid it < 1374934104 477185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, it is hard to avoid, I tried doing that before which caused a sigsegv a bit later instead < 1374934128 775142 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you segfault because of that? < 1374934188 835585 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case because the IP list had already been extended but the IP ended up with an invalid stackstack. I can try to handle all these yes, but it would be really annoying. < 1374934250 310075 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, seems that the 1730 is from a mostly-benign stack bug, where a no-argument ^style leaves an extra "1730" on the stack, under the current-input-buffer-index that's supposed to stay there. < 1374934254 910611 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, doing things correctly can be annoying :-P < 1374934267 811998 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1374934274 697933 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should perhaps fix that first, before proceeding on the babble-bug. < 1374934278 569249 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in most languages you wouldn't have the option not to exit < 1374934279 970410 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't /really/ matter though, feel free to fail, I just don't think it's the best way < 1374934286 595594 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, thinking of most high level languages here < 1374934310 295293 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Lots of them have out of memory exceptions or whatever < 1374934313 887391 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Isn't it the 1730 that is causing the issue? < 1374934335 212143 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Haskell? < 1374934342 673386 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know haskell had that for example. < 1374934344 671179 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nor scheme. < 1374934360 4676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very much doubt erlang has it, though I am not sure. < 1374934363 871803 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: You said "most languages", I'm just saying there are lots of counterexamples < 1374934385 719282 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional languages tend to be the type that don't have it in their spec, yes < 1374934389 531396 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: No, the issue is that the whole current-input-buffer-index value has been popped off the stack accidentally by the babble code. (The 1730 is related in the sense that it's what is then used as the input buffer index, breaking things badly.) < 1374934404 768885 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Well I said most high level languages. Which means something a bit above C++'s OOM exception < 1374934407 545782 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GHC they could add an out of memory exception for everything if they wanted, I guess < 1374934421 885555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the ^style handler is a lot smaller than the babbling code, so I'll fix that first. < 1374934445 969104 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, fair enough < 1374934523 120751 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's just the number of the line after the last style. < 1374934532 981507 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1374934537 229869 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Shrug, lots of languages have it and I guess lots don't, but you could also add it as an option (custom exception type or a special handler that is used only if the user defines it, or the like) in lots of the ones that don't... < 1374934540 156670 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list of available styles has apparently been loaded at y=1728. < 1374934550 915196 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because "ccc**" is easy to spell, and quite out of the way.) < 1374934551 165112 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1374934560 58931 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Befunge has the nice generic "instruction failed" error in the form of reflection, so I think it should be used whenever possible < 1374934578 354185 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that doesn't work for t though, since the parent thread reflects anyway < 1374934584 49380 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and the issue in this case was in t < 1374934604 288613 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Sure it works, the parent thread can wait for the child to confirm that it exists < 1374934612 646996 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That or mess with y < 1374934619 684378 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or with IIPC or whatever else < 1374934619 929716 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most programs probably don't though < 1374934631 880457 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIPC, which I don't implement < 1374934635 711881 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, most programs don't check for malloc(1) failing either < 1374934642 225961 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, 2* < 1374934652 197520 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 surely? < 1374934656 996355 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's 3 only isn't it, mmap is both < 1374934658 390261 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever < 1374934660 383154 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc() anyway < 1374934698 145302 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point being that I think the option should be there even if nobody actually uses it < 1374934706 476533 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1374934781 184318 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: How do I ask gdb for the character at (x,y) in fungespace? < 1374934811 147940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1374934815 533662 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write the C expression that produces the character at (x,y) in fungespace < 1374934829 336900 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :You write a befunge plugin for gdb < 1374934837 999490 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, call fungespace_dumparea(minx,miny,maxx,maxy) < 1374934854 216769 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 'hanks. < 1374934857 43586 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is also fungespace_dump and fungespace_dump_sparse < 1374934861 667553 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :No fungespace_get? < 1374934894 458662 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure, but that takes a struct funge_vector < 1374934895 821921 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge, a gdb plugin < 1374934907 109104 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, which is somewhat annoying to invent on the command line iirc < 1374934911 147511 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never figured it out anyway < 1374934935 841798 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just need a make_funge_vector < 1374934952 31003 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I also have stack_dump(funge_stack*) (if you have the IP you could do stack_dump(ip->stack) < 1374934971 105642 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet, vector_create_ref is a macro alas < 1374934978 42246 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define vector_create_ref(a, b) (& (funge_vector) { .x = (a), .y = (b) }) < 1374934992 65193 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is why you make everything a function instead of a macro! < 1374934993 602912 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I tried (over a year ago) that syntax didn't work in gdb < 1374934993 842436 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, that's also slightly nicer than my current manual looking at ->top and ->entries[0]. < 1374935004 896372 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374935014 810239 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then say "unless your compiler has good LTO the end result will be unusably slow" < 1374935016 34914 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good way to get a pointer to a funge_vector. < 1374935022 249875 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is a stack_print_top that prints the top 5 elements as well < 1374935039 69881 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway entires[0] would be the bottom of the stack. < 1374935045 301445 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it grows up not down < 1374935055 432177 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I noticed. < 1374935061 951452 :stuntaneous!~stuntane@c211-30-196-14.artrmn3.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT : < 1374935075 801792 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you know, adding a debugger is on my TODO, just never got around to it < 1374935088 436889 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't make any promises either. But maybe at some point yes < 1374935118 36058 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would mean adding readline/libedit and what not (I couldn't live without line editing personally). < 1374935214 740532 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: rlwrap < 1374935237 718688 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, doesn't actually work that well in my experience. Nothing close to the real deal. < 1374935246 858672 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374935266 202048 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shrug, I haven't had any problems < 1374935295 474157 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'm not a heavy enough readline user :-P < 1374935535 350615 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Oh, seems that the extra 1730 was actually my fault; had forgotten that the styles.list needs to be terminated by a line that has a single \0 at start. (Now it tried to STRN/G an empty line, and that reflected, and I hadn't expected that G to reflect.) < 1374935558 11468 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: (If you want to keep that fungot testing environment you did, you should probably also append a \0 at the end of the styles.list I described.) < 1374935558 259923 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: direct your self-loathing elsewhere! < 1374935570 336833 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And yeah, it's kind of brittle code.) < 1374935572 729017 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1374935580 528760 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(See? Nobody does error checking) < 1374935589 406418 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, back to actually figuring out the real problem. < 1374935594 48509 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, XD < 1374935602 960891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can you still reproduce the real issue? < 1374935654 856626 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might reproduce a bit differently, but it should still get confuzzled. < 1374935656 212181 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I will be pushing a bunch of minor fixes (mostly fixing clang warnings and OOM handling) shortly btw. < 1374935659 131764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will see. < 1374935695 978786 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also LARGE_IPLIST will now be default. < 1374935696 652090 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Are you building with -Weverything? < 1374935715 327655 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Is that a real clang option? I think I'm building with -Wall or some such < 1374935738 484917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it no longer actually crashes. But it still does a wrong. < 1374935739 725964 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -Wall is like GCC's -Wall in that it enables a large set of common and useful warnings or whatever < 1374935745 598360 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1374935746 20108 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: -Weverything enables every single -Wfoo option < 1374935762 703428 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to use -Weverything and then -Wno-foo the ones I don't care about < 1374935765 928878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll stick a fixed big number under the current-input-index value so that the crash is more spectacular, for debugging. < 1374935766 403177 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do anything special for clang wrt. warnings. Only for GCC < 1374935783 408130 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because there is no built in cmake define to check if you use clang < 1374935792 188777 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice < 1374935830 994347 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Weverything will probably give you a huge pile of warnings but after a few -Wno-foos for the super-common and not-too-problematic ones you might be left with just some useful ones that -Wall missed < 1374935848 712437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, huge pile is an understatement XD < 1374935875 602211 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably more than it's willing to output, I guess it stops printing them after 100 or whatever < 1374935886 166694 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :per file right? < 1374935886 414843 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wsigned-conversion or something like that tends to fire a lot < 1374935893 414713 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Per clang invocation I guess < 1374935894 260059 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Also I get some warnings from a really common header. For every file. Oh well < 1374935904 833925 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: It's a bit annoying for debugging that with the brkinst 'z' breakpoint in place, generating one line of babble takes half a minute. < 1374935927 125686 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is due to how gdb does it I'm afraid < 1374935937 208509 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is breaking, checking and continuing < 1374935976 665410 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could add a check in the code, or break on the line where z is handled (interpreter.c, function execute_instruction, for me it is line 179) < 1374935995 93642 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so that "case 'z'" there would work if you broke on that < 1374936000 272078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be a lot faster < 1374936031 929756 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, other than that, there is little that can be done to fix gdb < 1374936098 577835 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess I could do that. < 1374936148 89366 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, other than optimize the code so you have fewer instructions being executed of course < 1374936182 834098 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The breakpoint-on-the-"break;"-line is blazing fast. < 1374936227 987378 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well of course, it doesn't have to break and switch to gdb on every executed funge instruction < 1374936602 612572 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you know, for me using ninja is almost less efficient than using make. < 1374936620 402758 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that < 1374936665 395736 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, The reason is that the build time is so low anyway, and typing make is faster (one letter shorter and alternating hands for the letters), than typing ninja in the terminal (all but one letter of ninja is with the same hand) < 1374936692 615422 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1374936699 831472 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nin :-p < 1374936734 356595 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I need at least mak or nin, and then we get back to the alternating hand issue again < 1374936776 683378 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course typing make is just as fast as mak, if not faster < 1374936782 856065 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nin" is pretty easy with one hand IMO, since you can keep one finger at n < 1374936809 46907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told gdb to break execute_instruction if (ip->stack->top < 2), let's see if it finds me the instruction responsible for popping off the input position value. < 1374936817 987907 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's been running for two minutes or so.) < 1374936819 411140 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"tup upd" is the worst, of course < 1374936827 647882 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on the keyboard I guess, a bit harder with an ergonomic one for it to not end up shifted away. I have a MS Natural keyboard < 1374936842 404210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that will be slow for the reason mentioned before yes < 1374936852 956461 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes that is pretty bad indeed < 1374936886 423792 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway that is why I think darcs never got popular. svn, git, bzr, cvs and even more so hg are all easier to type < 1374936895 324713 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :darcs is all left hand < 1374936914 642016 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1374936926 953445 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and don't even speak about monotone < 1374937005 800493 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why it changed to arch then, I guess < 1374937041 609163 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :A wise decision (that I didn't know about) < 1374937060 591638 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :position = {x = 57, y = 232} aha, there's the culprit. < 1374937068 680505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1374937082 251787 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was the issue? < 1374937103 886458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know *that* yet, of course, just the particular instruction removing that value. < 1374937125 1417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is... a $ in the code shared for all output, so I suppose I need to dig deeper to find the actual cause. < 1374937161 781610 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should be able to break on funge space access too btw, though it would suffer the same slowness (if not worse): break fungespace_get if position-> == 123 && position->y == 345 < 1374937207 195730 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if that value below the input buffer is accessed, I guess that would help? Unless you mean that it was on the stack? < 1374937225 223003 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style nosuchstyle < 1374937225 467719 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not found. < 1374937228 580922 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the stack, yes. < 1374937230 990491 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1374937231 236356 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot homestuck ic irc* iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1374937258 156540 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess you could set a watch-point on the address in ip->stack->entries? Maybe? < 1374937276 175752 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ip->stack.entries[n] that is < 1374937373 254451 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, actually you would need to set two breakpoints I believe... fungespace_get and fungespace_get_offset, the latter taking two vectors (you would thus need to check on the sum, or put the breakpoint after the sum has been calculated already) < 1374937383 655534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean, I did already find the instruction that is responsible for dropping it, with that top < 2 break; just have to figure out why. Presumably at the $ there should be something *else* on the stack that has been accidentally dropped by an earlier instruction, which I could catch by watching for top < 3 after it's been put on. < 1374937383 900822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea why one doesn't just call the other < 1374937393 2416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming I can just figure out from the code what should be on stack there. < 1374937425 419404 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1374937442 756582 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just keep getting interrupted here. < 1374937450 51679 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1374937482 509300 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I mean, here at home.) < 1374937492 453816 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1374937509 989574 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, calling signal(SIGINT, SIG_IGN) might help < 1374937610 25909 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to my documentation, the purpose of this one variable the code is looking at is "temp". So helpful. < 1374937622 169370 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1374937658 668904 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge really is a write-only language < 1374937768 706335 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hey. I think I might have found the culprit. This code that checks for an overlong message (and truncates it) looks like it has a different stack effect for the "is too long" path than the "is okay" path. < 1374937797 25373 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if it's here, because this is a reasonably small piece of code. I didn't really relish the thought of trying to read the babble generator. < 1374937911 946658 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write-only is fine, just rewrite the program when you find a bug < 1374938058 256800 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374938086 419585 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1374938091 259410 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Bug fixed.) < 1374938102 580796 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this The Bug < 1374938120 443148 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "replies even when not spoken to sometimes" bug, yes. < 1374938133 796701 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip creativity :( < 1374938149 389878 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You've just had a virtu-lobotomy; how do you feel? < 1374938149 712848 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the reason that your expression evaluates to a list then call/ cc becomes fnord, not about the blood that doesn't have bachelor's degrees? < 1374938183 535397 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're having a blood transfusion, remember to check that the blood has at least a bachelor's. < 1374938261 902395 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, is there a way to basically do #define x constant ## VALUE_OF_OTHER_DEFINE? < 1374938303 947564 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define x cat(constant,other) < 1374938309 332866 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right < 1374938413 669071 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that did not work hm < 1374938415 400705 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1374938488 941187 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it it actually possible? < 1374938528 581936 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define cat(a,b) cat2(a,b) < 1374938531 952783 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define cat2(a,b) a##b < 1374938655 537162 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, thanks < 1374938917 101594 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing which you said yesterday that nobody needs or something ;-P < 1374938937 758456 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, was it? I thought it was a bit different, but oh well XD < 1374939227 339390 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374939450 813351 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork, it doesn't < 1374939584 133691 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's too bad < 1374939942 318352 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1374940420 896878 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374940555 88005 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Anything interesting from -Weverything? < 1374941838 4380 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1374941859 548181 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not really, just implicit casts mostly < 1374941881 272614 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and all of them were intended < 1374942014 901835 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374942044 399827 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374942109 754904 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.113 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374942211 489314 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fixedpoint theorem in lambda calculus seems false < 1374942334 313629 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says that for every function a fixed point exists, but if for many functions there is no constant fixed point < 1374942657 820928 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src fix < 1374942658 98828 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix f = let x = f x in x < 1374942662 579579 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :qed < 1374942815 828840 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know the fixed point combinator. but I get contradictions when I try and use the resulting fixed point as a constant < 1374942853 822302 :stuntaneous!~stuntane@211.30.196.14 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374942928 200383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1374943423 963471 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example \.a(a \.b( \.c( c ) ) \.d( \.e( d ) ) ) < 1374943453 708031 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has no fixed fixed point. so when I at like it does, strange things happen < 1374943531 587 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*act < 1374943623 980336 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's because it's not scott continuous, duh < 1374943685 366170 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1374943888 881018 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :\a. a \b. (\c. c) \d. \e. d? < 1374943898 754478 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it finds you the least fixed point where "least" is defined in a lattice of progressively more-defined values < 1374943905 56439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the least fixed point is ⊥ < 1374943921 594397 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are standard notational grouping rules < 1374944092 382479 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :?pl \a -> a (const id) const < 1374944092 660747 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip ($ const id) const < 1374944205 520010 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more \a -> a (const (id const)) < 1374944225 799059 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :λλλ < 1374944257 740948 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sure how that groups < 1374944301 530452 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either case, a reason why this fixoint is ⊥ is because it never produces any value, or any expression spine, so to speak... < 1374944322 589128 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id < 1374944323 299598 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1374944328 543322 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t fix id (const (id const)) < 1374944329 293722 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1374944357 781426 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gracenotes: thanks for the notation help < 1374944360 716849 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :where something like factorial, it at least yields an if statement before immediately jumping into a recursive call. < 1374944372 215063 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or not) < 1374944416 363003 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is R = R->P equivalent to bottom? < 1374944484 925969 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of expression is that < 1374944512 617035 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the fixed point of λx.(x⇒P) < 1374944537 433095 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is the fixed point < 1374944553 655451 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ⇒? < 1374944573 335913 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rightwards double arrow < 1374944587 61743 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :x⇒P means P is provable given x < 1374944600 803633 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what it means in logic < 1374944607 985110 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what are you using it to mean in the lambda calculus? < 1374944616 980306 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no primitive notion of ⇒, you have to define it < 1374944625 78129 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus isn't being used computationally, I don't think < 1374944626 958913 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1374944629 679634 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and if you take it as a primitive, of course results for the standard lambda calculus might not apply to your system) < 1374944690 497231 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :people love it because beta-reduction either diverges or is strongly normalizing, although maybe not in the face of all of these extensions... dunno < 1374944725 75942 :Bike_!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374944812 772587 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike / kmc: here is a cool thing! http://arxiv.org/pdf/1306.6047v1.pdf < 1374944817 403337 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need a way of reducing ⇒, where it be for computing or proving < 1374944819 433535 :Bike_!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1374944827 119386 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a paper where they analyze why interpreting python is hard/slow and some ways to speed it up and a custom python interpreter < 1374944845 785832 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no problem with unlimited fixed points at all, well, unless you don't really want to prove false < 1374944854 2273 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fancy < 1374944864 894187 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proving false is pretty great though, you should try it < 1374944872 880163 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1374944873 821110 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1374944885 113356 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, due to the possibility of encountering an overloaded __add__ method, no assumptions can be made about the behavior of BINARY_ADD. In the general absence of type information, almost every instruction must be treated as INVOKE_ARBITRARY_METHOD" < 1374944903 108616 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can still make fun of python gil right < 1374944917 378697 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, figures < 1374944917 863696 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can *always* do that < 1374944920 688018 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a grandfathered license to make fun of python < 1374944949 595939 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do all kinds of super cool things like the whole direct-interretation looping and recompiling the code to work on a register machine < 1374944955 823964 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*interpretation < 1374944991 976292 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, they take advantage of the fact that most python code is actually java. < 1374944994 633628 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott: I got it from john shutt's blog. He's using lambda calculus to manipulate symbols and then using the results. < 1374945028 276155 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :as logic formulas < 1374945043 14699 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that quote about __add__ reminds me of scheme < 1374945060 132009 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shutt has a blog? < 1374945113 714428 :doesthiswork!~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fexpr.blogspot.com/2013/07/bypassing-no-go-theorems.html < 1374945137 532961 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how this relates to PyPy < 1374945142 451783 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the paper would tell me < 1374945160 534943 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would involve reading it right < 1374945173 291460 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference they explain is that basically the big problem is that the cpython API (used to make extensions, I think), exposes a huge amount of the interpreter's internals < 1374945181 710078 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like, you can't even change the memory layout of objects without breaking source compatibility < 1374945190 636574 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :so like, pypy is fast, but it can't be used with those extensions < 1374945192 509833 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, ew. < 1374945198 742668 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want to make the extensions work, your hands are kinda tied? < 1374945216 943083 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(so their paper is about like, I think "what we can do if we don't break compatibility"?) < 1374945223 460953 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I read the first page... so I guess the problem is essentially "python's extension API is really awful" < 1374945228 942061 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main strategies for dealing with this is just rewriting your extensions in pure Python < 1374945233 353868 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sounds like the API here is bad < 1374945244 24786 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they were written in C originally only for speed < 1374945247 844011 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :pypy kind of makes a deal with the devil, in that sense < 1374945251 372340 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the problem is they explain the API is one of the main reasons people use python >_< < 1374945270 654861 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fry, it's time for you to make a metaphorical deal with the devil. And by devil I mean robot devil, and by metaphorical I mean get your coat." < 1374945324 368618 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you could do something really ridiculous like sort of translate C extensions back into Python with FFI calls automatically so that they're fiddling with the objects on a language level < 1374945334 515157 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just JIT that < 1374945336 619946 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay that sounds impractical < 1374945350 545117 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :JIT everything forever < 1374945371 45933 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I know, I'll use JIT." < 1374945515 83479 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still waiting for JTL compilers < 1374945551 459879 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jafet: http://etoileos.com/news/archive/2009/07/23/2218/ < 1374945554 270143 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: that sounds reasonable < 1374945566 456959 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you make the JIT itself take on the burden of translating to the legacy CPython API < 1374945595 553856 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used ctypes to call the CPython API from Python before < 1374945603 113654 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :/it's/ /the/ /best/ < 1374945620 771009 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pythons all the way down < 1374945648 548501 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ride the snake seven miles < 1374945663 789571 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could combine it with one of those things that takes python code and automatically generates C extensions for it < 1374945724 214866 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: well, the idea is like, the problem is that all the pokey stuff you can do to the object model requires things to be inefficient to support it especially because it seems like you're accessing struct fields of the objects directly and stuff? < 1374945745 889925 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :But your python code is fast, so it evens out < 1374945747 394038 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you instead turn that into Python code which messes with __dict__ and stuff then you alleviate the problem because you no longer have to keep the exact same memory layout < 1374945757 674652 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then "hopefully" the JIT can smooth out the horribly inefficient stuff it wants to do < 1374945764 580817 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it sounds like you'd probably run into a lot of problems < 1374945828 95216 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I didn't know about this attack until today http://stackoverflow.com/questions/3008139/why-is-using-a-non-random-iv-with-cbc-mode-a-vulnerability < 1374945840 852804 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just compile the C code into python < 1374945858 799470 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :CBC mode sux :< < 1374946144 830018 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo CTR mode < 1374946161 718781 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best use for sequential IVs? < 1374946182 184160 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo ECB ””mode““ < 1374946198 711128 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no state, no problem < 1374946232 336083 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the state wants to get you < 1374946248 894583 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ecb mode might be less great in that case < 1374946277 992813 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the state considers you a problem < 1374946450 748697 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if the snake considers you a problem < 1374946555 135247 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if the snake considers you a program < 1374946739 361391 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1374946838 480886 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :deterministic encryption algorithms are insecure < 1374946867 540337 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :all an attacker has to do is determine the intiial conditions of the universe! come ON, people < 1374947003 777259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bits is that iv < 1374947088 670072 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably at least like, twelve?? < 1374947168 757816 :Gracenotes!~person@wikipedia/Gracenotes PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, block ciphers are deterministic (they have inverses) < 1374947466 73208 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1374947608 299095 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1374948288 317370 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You assume the universe is deterministic. I am not so sure. < 1374948330 697626 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :WEP uses only a 24-bit IV..... < 1374948401 356483 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah CTR mode is good; it makes one wonder why we bother with making these block ciphers invertible anyway < 1374948411 348762 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb also wondered that and invented Salsa20 < 1374948531 369171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to do disk encryption with ctr mode < 1374948544 53521 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374948555 766826 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1374948572 212333 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374948644 122117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But even if the universe is deterministic, it takes too much time to recover the result you are looking for anyways.) < 1374948713 954587 :Bike!~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374948714 651345 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: v. true < 1374948803 357448 :Bike_!~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1374949171 912573 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1374949172 154591 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2d 20h 9m 15s ago: i do not think it is always possible to find the contents of a backflip program by running it from chosen edges. in particular if you have a region bounded entirely by < 1374949172 154786 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :inwards pointing arrows you will never be able to say anything about its interior. < 1374949172 154891 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2d 20h 6m 10s ago: well, ignoring output. < 1374949287 644194 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does looks like it; there is an ambiguous. But, you can't win them all. < 1374949422 233912 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are told the number of mirrors, arrows, and outputs, then it may help a little bit but is still ambiguous. < 1374950470 503035 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1374950693 749484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com TOPIC #esoteric :Sponsored by hexagons of increasing dimension | jsvine is doing an esolang survey!: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1OvEsdBioOFcXFAiscO34kctUWKs3dWQs5-ZouXdwy9Q/viewform | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric & http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1374950736 274101 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When do you expect oerjan on today? < 1374951399 954626 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist (905) < 1374951404 514870 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist (905): shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly < 1374951407 205238 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Thanks for reminding me! < 1374951829 19025 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :##crypto-drugz < 1374951841 181745 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's to expect re: ørjan < 1374951905 368976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: fizzie can surely make you graphs and compute averages of oerjan's average connection time and so on < 1374951920 668257 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :So now we've reduced the problem to "When do you expect fizzie on today?". < 1374952517 663954 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have already made that graph. < 1374952547 430589 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_tod.html and then select only oerjan. < 1374952602 980604 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1374952604 126146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would seem that oerjan's usual time of arrival is in approximately 19-20 UTC, from which I deduce he should be arriving any moment now. < 1374952662 46105 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, last time he came in it was at 21 UTC, so YMMV. < 1374952789 438118 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess if I select only the year 2013, that matches reasonably well. < 1374952867 326050 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It might be that weekends are different; unfortunately, that particular graph does not really account for it.) < 1374952897 8907 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought we'd established that oerjan is on a 25-hour schedule < 1374953294 776792 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1374953346 468520 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1374953368 711890 :sacje!~sacre@unaffiliated/klet JOIN :#esoteric < 1374953621 794830 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could we get a 3D plot with number of messages, time of day, and year? < 1374953654 642525 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just plot that as a shaded 2D surface. < 1374953664 248814 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, So we could see, as a HTML5-rotatable canvas fancy thingy of course, how the time of day behavior changed over time < 1374953684 302052 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebGL thing, then it's very future. < 1374953694 142696 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes quite so < 1374953787 610379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess that is too much work < 1374953788 566209 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've recently taken a peek at some WebGL things, they have this thing where they write the (OpenGL ES) shaders with