←2013-08-06 2013-08-07 2013-08-08→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:00 <elliott> well... yeah but... never mind
00:01:08 <doesthiswork> elliot: that is the first line on a new page at codu.org
00:06:34 <mnoqy> wow what a coincidence; that's the first thing you've said since joining
00:06:49 <Bike> doesthiswork is the bringer of the new day.
00:07:57 -!- jsvine has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
00:10:40 -!- CADD has joined.
00:27:28 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer).
00:29:58 -!- Bike has joined.
00:30:16 <Bike> in C, can you have declarations after statements?
00:32:22 <Jafet> `run echo $'main() { int x; x = 3; int y; return x + y; }\n' > a.c && gcc a.c
00:32:27 <kmc> in C99, not in C89 or Ye Olde C
00:32:30 <HackEgo> No output.
00:33:08 <Bike> hmm.
00:33:23 <Bike> thinking about kernel's "add to environments whenever" thing and how much i hate it
00:33:27 <kmc> (some compilers may allow it without explicitly enabling C99, just as they allow //-comments)
00:33:36 <kmc> Bike: fun fact: you can't put a goto label on a declaration
00:33:51 <Bike> i mean, dealing with "int x; x = 3; eval("int y = 4"); return x + y;" would just... ugh
00:34:01 <kmc> `run echo $'main() { foo: int x = 3; goto foo; }\n' > a.c && gcc a.c
00:34:02 <mnoqy> don't you also get into trouble if you skip over declarations or anything of the such
00:34:05 <HackEgo> a.c: In function ‘main’: \ a.c:1: error: a label can only be part of a statement and a declaration is not a statement
00:34:11 <kmc> `run echo $'main() { foo:; int x = 3; goto foo; }\n' > a.c && gcc a.c
00:34:17 <HackEgo> No output.
00:34:17 <Bike> kmc: that's uh, huh.
00:34:20 <kmc> `which gccrun
00:34:21 <HackEgo> ​/hackenv/bin/gccrun
00:34:30 <kmc> `gccrun foo: int x = 3; goto foo;
00:34:33 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.g9q3g9XU/command.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/gccrun.g9q3g9XU/command.c:19: error: a label can only be part of a statement and a declaration is not a statement
00:35:03 <Bike> well not "dealing with" so much as "allowing"
00:35:34 <Jafet> `gccrun if(0) { foo: return puts("!"); } goto foo; return puts("?");
00:35:37 <HackEgo> ​!
00:36:11 <Bike> that's actually what i expected to happen. god help me.
00:36:55 <Bike> `gccrun if(0) { foo: return puts("!"); } else goto foo; return puts("?");
00:36:58 <HackEgo> ​!
00:37:17 <mnoqy> goto is real great stuff
00:37:38 <mnoqy> also "unstructured" switch
00:37:52 <mnoqy> as per duff's device & friends
00:38:07 <Bike> good device
00:38:30 <kmc> `gccrun if (0) { foo: printf("Hello, world!\n"); return 0; }; asm goto("jmp %l0" : : : : foo); __builtin_unreachable(); }
00:38:32 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.FP131YDj/command.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/gccrun.FP131YDj/command.c:19: error: expected ‘(’ before ‘goto’ \ /tmp/gccrun.FP131YDj/command.c:19: error: expected identifier or ‘*’ before ‘(’ token \ /tmp/gccrun.FP131YDj/command.c: At top level: \ /tmp/gccrun.FP131YDj/command.c:20: error: expected identifier or
00:38:35 <kmc> fuck you
00:38:49 <zzo38> Fall through is pretty useful in a switch case, sometimes.
00:39:47 <Jafet> `gccrun if (0) { foo: printf("Hello, world!\n"); return 0; }; asm("jmp %l0" : : : : &foo); }
00:39:49 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.q8YTzgvD/command.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/gccrun.q8YTzgvD/command.c:19: error: expected string literal before ‘:’ token \ /tmp/gccrun.q8YTzgvD/command.c: At top level: \ /tmp/gccrun.q8YTzgvD/command.c:20: error: expected identifier or ‘(’ before ‘return’ \ /tmp/gccrun.q8YTzgvD/command.c:21: error: expected identi
00:40:24 <Bike> is it not understanding asm?
00:41:09 <Jafet> `gccrun --version
00:41:10 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.jHMqVnVF/command.c: In function ‘main’: \ /tmp/gccrun.jHMqVnVF/command.c:19: error: ‘version’ undeclared (first use in this function) \ /tmp/gccrun.jHMqVnVF/command.c:19: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once \ /tmp/gccrun.jHMqVnVF/command.c:19: error: for each function it appears in.)
00:41:16 <Jafet> `gcc --version
00:41:17 <HackEgo> gcc (Debian 4.4.5-8) 4.4.5 \ Copyright (C) 2010 Free Software Foundation, Inc. \ This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO \ warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
00:41:59 <Jafet> `run svn co svn://gcc.gnu.org/svn/gcc/trunk
00:42:01 <HackEgo> bash: svn: command not found
00:42:17 <Jafet> fuck you
00:43:02 <kmc> `fuck you
00:43:03 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: fuck: not found
00:43:06 <Bike> so does my earlier eval thing seem reasonable to anybody
00:43:49 <kmc> welp now rustc is dying with just "Aborted"
00:44:48 <kmc> in some kind of infinite recursion
00:50:33 <zzo38> Now I should think of what to advance my Dungeons&Dragons character.
00:50:50 <Jafet> `gccrun asm("jmp *%0" : : "r" (&&foo)); printf("Hi\n"); foo: return !printf("Hello, world!\n");
00:50:53 <HackEgo> Hello, world!
00:51:52 <Fiora> `gccrun asm volatile("hlt"::);
00:51:55 <HackEgo> Segmentation fault
00:52:04 <Bike> that's the spirit.
00:54:00 <Fiora> `gccrun asm volatile("popcnt %%eax"::);
00:54:02 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.4SBPpiHU/command.c: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/gccrun.4SBPpiHU/command.c:19: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `popcnt'
00:54:08 <Fiora> `gccrun asm volatile("popcnt %%eax, %%eax"::);
00:54:11 <HackEgo> No output.
00:54:27 <Fiora> `gccrun asm volatile("vpmaddubsw %%ymm0, %%ymm0, %%ymm0"::);
00:54:29 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.zJA471z5/command.c: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/gccrun.zJA471z5/command.c:19: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `vpmaddubsw'
00:54:55 <Fiora> `gccrun asm volatile("tzcnt %%eax, %%eax"::);
00:54:58 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.bO0jCRhE/command.c: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/gccrun.bO0jCRhE/command.c:19: Error: no such instruction: `tzcnt %eax,%eax'
00:55:02 <Fiora> :<
00:56:05 <Jafet> `gcc -dumpmachine
00:56:06 <HackEgo> x86_64-linux-gnu
00:56:12 <Jafet> `gcc -dumpspecs
00:56:13 <HackEgo> ​*asm: \ %{v:-V} %{Qy:} %{!Qn:-Qy} %{n} %{T} %{Ym,*} %{Yd,*} %{Wa,*:%*} %{m32:--32} %{m64:--64} %{!mno-sse2avx:%{mavx:-msse2avx}} %{msse2avx:%{!mavx:-msse2avx}} \ \ *asm_debug: \ %{!g0:%{gstabs*:--gstabs}%{!gstabs*:%{g*:--gdwarf2}}} %{fdebug-prefix-map=*:--debug-prefix-map %*} \ \ *asm_final: \ \ \ *asm_options: \ %{--target-help:%:print-as
00:56:17 <kmc> `gccrun asm("fist");
00:56:19 <HackEgo> ​/tmp/gccrun.1Vv8dvIW/command.c: Assembler messages: \ /tmp/gccrun.1Vv8dvIW/command.c:19: Error: suffix or operands invalid for `fist'
00:56:48 <kmc> Jafet: ah yes, the good old address of label operator
00:57:09 <kmc> and computed goto, is that goto *expr?
00:57:16 <kmc> computed goto is best goto
00:57:38 <shachaf> goto more like mefrom
00:58:03 <Jafet> `run grep -e flags -e 'model name' /proc/cpuinfo
00:58:04 <HackEgo> model name: UML
00:58:23 <shachaf> `pastelogs cpuid
00:59:05 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.11462
00:59:45 <shachaf> `run gccrun 'int name[12],i;for(i=0;i<3;i++){asm("cpuid":"=a"(name[4*i]),"=b"(name[4*i+1]),"=c"(name[4*i+2]),"=d"(name[4*i+3]):"a"(0x80000002+i));}puts((char*)name);'
00:59:47 <HackEgo> AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6128
00:59:56 <Bike> "Just make a file called CPUID.COM"
01:00:56 <Jafet> You know, I've never actually seen a non-genuine Intel processor
01:01:03 <Jafet> I guess they exist somewhere
01:04:05 <zzo38> Bike: I have done like that, it displays something like "GenuineIntel" or whatever
01:04:16 <Bike> i was quoting you, even.
01:04:44 <zzo38> It won't display the details like "AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 6128", however.
01:05:02 <Bike> what's a good name for an operator that change a variable's value, if "define" and "set" are taken
01:05:16 <Bike> i was gonna go with "alter" but it kinda sucks
01:05:36 <Fiora> modify?
01:06:04 <shachaf> mutate?
01:06:31 <shachaf> well, it depends on what you mean
01:06:42 <Bike> like "x = 4" in C
01:06:49 <Bike> (not x.foo = 4)
01:12:18 -!- copumpkin has joined.
01:15:53 <shachaf> Normally, the problem with a web service is that it is written in standard HTML and PHP, so hackers can exploit vulnerabilities in the code. But our service is written completely in javascript, developed to provide the highest level of security available on the web.
01:16:20 <Bike> That's kind of long as names go, don't you think
01:16:25 <Gregor> That's buzzwordalicious.
01:16:50 <zzo38> If it is client-side JavaScript, then it isn't a proper service, isn't it? (If it is server-side JavaScript, then there can still be vulnerabilities although they are different ones. Also, HTML is client-side too.)
01:29:58 <oerjan> Bike: assign
01:30:51 <oerjan> the copumpkin has returned
01:30:58 <shachaf> hi copumpkin
01:31:01 <copumpkin> my computer had an "accident" :)
01:31:08 <shachaf> oh no
01:31:08 <comex> or update
01:31:10 <copumpkin> so it has now been replaced and my IRC settings took a while
01:31:14 <Bike> oerjan: wow obvious thanks
01:31:19 <copumpkin> well yes, now it's a nicer computer
01:31:31 <copumpkin> I freaked out thinking I had lost my gpg seckey
01:31:37 <copumpkin> but then I found it on an ancient hard drive
01:32:31 <shachaf> That's why I keep a copy of all my secret keys under the rug.
01:32:55 <copumpkin> good plan
01:33:08 <pikhq> zzo38: That's because you did 0x0, which is the code to get the CPU vendor out from cpuid.
01:33:21 <oerjan> zzo38: i am pretty sure shachaf quoted that because it was hilariously wrong (and stupid).
01:33:37 <pikhq> 0x80000002-5 are the CPU model name.
01:39:32 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite).
01:40:49 <shachaf> https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Filboid_Studge,_the_Story_of_a_Mouse_That_Helped
01:42:37 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds).
01:56:06 <kmc> logging in and typing xrandr commands blind \o/
01:56:07 <myndzi> |
01:56:07 <myndzi> /|
01:56:25 <Bike> yes indeed.
01:57:27 <shachaf> kmc: devoice yrself hth
01:57:33 <Bike> "One huge sombre poster depicted the Damned in Hell suffering a new torment from their inability to get at the Filboid Studge which elegant young fiends held in transparent bowls just beyond their reach." amazing.
01:57:38 <elliott> it's somehow appropriate that kmc's myndzi dudes are misaligned
01:57:49 <Bike> why do you say that, < elliott>
01:57:54 <shachaf> kmc: imo log in and type xhost +
01:57:57 <elliott> fix. your client!!
01:58:02 <elliott> even mnoqy turned off the "< "
01:58:11 <Bike> fix it so that kmc's myndzi dudes aren't aligned
01:58:12 <Bike> i think not
01:58:15 <shachaf> even shachaf turned off the "< ".
01:58:20 <shachaf> s/.$//
01:58:25 <zzo38> That doesn't necessarily make it broken; there is no guarantee that they would be lined up, actually.
01:58:30 <zzo38> Because they all difference
01:58:35 <mnoqy> i turned it off but i still think it's not worth complaining over
01:58:38 <shachaf> zzo38 makes a good point.
01:58:51 <shachaf> mnoqy: well, you're sensible (the only sensible person in this channel??)
01:59:04 <shachaf> maybe ais523 is sensible but he's not in this channel anymore
01:59:09 <kmc> go back to #sensible
01:59:17 <Bike> the irc protocol should be fixed to specify character widths
01:59:39 <zzo38> On my computer the "|" is just beneath the "l" in "blind" but you shouldn't expect anyone's computer to do anything specific such as that or not that
01:59:51 <zzo38> Bike: I don't think so. I think that isn't necessary
01:59:52 <Jafet> The irc protocol should forbid people from complaining about irc
02:00:18 <kmc> just like the iOS app store!
02:00:20 <shachaf> zzo38: did you get an answer from your brother
02:00:34 <zzo38> shachaf: Answer to what question?
02:00:47 <shachaf> whether he's ever been here
02:00:51 <Jafet> #ifappledesignedirc
02:01:10 <kmc> i fappled
02:02:39 <Jafet> iFapple
02:10:28 <kmc> preordering now
02:13:30 <kmc> dude this motherboard uses "Military Class II" components
02:13:40 <kmc> i can totally blow you up by plugging in an S/PDIF cable
02:14:31 <elliott> missed "up" the first time I read that :/
02:15:45 <Bike> http://24.media.tumblr.com/5ba25305b4c70be6a875ebebd82446d5/tumblr_mps7wwOvyv1r7tprao1_500.jpg sorry for bad photo, but
02:16:19 <mnoqy> smudge proof #1 selling scratch protection
02:16:23 <kmc> elliott: it can do that too
02:16:35 <mnoqy> military grade nano-memory technology?? what the heck is this
02:16:43 <Bike> an iphone cover.
02:16:46 <mnoqy> are you sure this isn't some sort of joke
02:17:10 <Bike> i took the photo. It was from Target.
02:17:25 <mnoqy> are you sure it wasn't some sort of joke
02:17:36 <mnoqy> april fools in august
02:17:40 <mnoqy> august fools
02:17:44 <mnoqy> it could happen to anyone
02:18:14 <kmc> are you sure target isn't some kind of joke
02:18:56 <Bike> http://31.media.tumblr.com/5b9a7d8e6b41d9f68495e4676af7098a/tumblr_mpsbna0AlZ1r7tprao1_500.jpg continued
02:19:26 <elliott> kmc: is this like http://www.theonion.com/video/new-wearable-computer-also-sucks-your-dick,33017/
02:19:33 <mnoqy> ZAGG®
02:19:40 <elliott> Bike: can. can you rotate this for me
02:19:48 <mnoqy> just rotate it in your head
02:19:52 <elliott> I've spent too much of my life rotating my neck to read things.
02:20:00 <elliott> too much of my life not getting Bike to do things for me
02:20:02 <shachaf> elliott: rotate your computer instead hth
02:20:11 <mnoqy> my tech is to be able to read sideways
02:20:20 <shachaf> mnoqy: good tech can i have it
02:20:25 <mnoqy> i guess rotating is easier though huh
02:20:29 <kmc> elliott: yeah like that
02:20:36 <shachaf> `smlist (417)
02:20:38 <HackEgo> smlist (417): shachaf monqy elliott mnoqy
02:20:53 <mnoqy> what a good day
02:22:04 <kmc> "Area Man Too Poor To Afford Movers, Too Old To Get Help From His Friends" sometimes the onion is just depressing
02:22:35 <mnoqy> area man...:(
02:23:15 <elliott> what laptop should I buy :(
02:23:34 <elliott> it seems like every thinkpad is kind of bad in 2013
02:24:10 <mnoqy> isn't it more fun to think about which laptop is the best than actually having one
02:24:27 <elliott> what are you implying!!
02:24:59 <comex> elliott: macbook
02:25:34 <mnoqy> elliott: ipad
02:25:58 <kmc> elliott: I'm really happy with my X1 Carbon, except that the screen just broke :<
02:26:06 <quintopia> that microsoft tablet thing with the keyboard flap
02:26:10 <Gracenotes> I am too stingy to afford movers and too unlikeable to get help from my friends
02:26:11 <shachaf> kmc: oh no :'( what happen
02:26:22 <kmc> dunno I just pushed it a bit and *crack*
02:26:26 <kmc> like no obvious source of damage
02:26:49 <elliott> comex: maybe but probably not
02:27:05 <Gracenotes> ssh uses not-much-knowledge proofs of password ownership, yes?
02:27:11 <elliott> kmc: yeah, I don't think the X1 Carbon really meets my requirements though (my requirements are: I don't know my requirements)
02:27:19 <Gracenotes> s/ownership/knowership/
02:27:30 <shachaf> my requirements are: hugz
02:27:36 <pikhq> Gracenotes: Or it can use public key crypto.
02:27:40 <mnoqy> elliott: then what are you doing comparing laptops, or uh, i guess you're asking other people to do that for you huh
02:27:58 * quintopia hugz shachaf
02:28:01 <mnoqy> but how would you know when's the right time to say "yes"!
02:28:04 <Gracenotes> yeah, in this case I typed a password, wondering how clearly it was sent, assuming a malicious server or something
02:28:05 <elliott> kmc: in particular, (relatively) low RAM, bad graphics (incl. resolution), seemingly very little storage?
02:28:23 <mnoqy> how much ram
02:28:29 <comex> elliott: there's only one laptop with as good resolution as the MBP retina ;)
02:28:34 <elliott> kmc: which like, it's an ultrabook so this is not terribly surprising
02:28:35 <comex> one other laptop, i mean
02:28:51 <elliott> comex: 1080p would be "enough"
02:29:02 <elliott> maybe 1680x1050 would be enough
02:29:14 <elliott> mnoqy: 4-8 gigabytes on the X1 Carbon
02:29:23 <mnoqy> that's plenty
02:29:29 <elliott> I would be happier with 12-16 for long-term purchase reasons
02:29:50 <mnoqy> im shocked anyone would ever need a good computer
02:29:55 <mnoqy> what do you plan on doing, gaming??
02:30:03 <mnoqy> hardcore gaming???
02:30:04 <kmc> paging nortti
02:30:42 <kmc> 128 GB is plenty of storage elliott
02:31:33 <kmc> and you can get 256
02:31:41 <elliott> oh you can?
02:31:45 <elliott> http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/thinkpad/x-series/x1-carbon/index.html doesn't list that
02:31:51 <elliott> 256 would "probably" be enough
02:32:07 <elliott> I looked at the T series thinkpads and they're really disappointing
02:32:24 <shachaf> mnoqy: wow i didn't know elliott was hardcore
02:32:31 <elliott> maybe things will be better when haswell comes out
02:32:37 <mnoqy> shachaf: you better believe it
02:32:41 <shachaf> haswell is out hth
02:32:48 <elliott> *haswell hardware
02:32:51 <shachaf> but i'm told you should wait until october or so for haswell laptops
02:34:51 <Fiora> elliott: you could get like, something like what I got! and spend too much money
02:35:18 <shachaf> Fiora: what did you get
02:35:21 <elliott> I think I have resigned myself to spending too much money already
02:36:58 <Fiora> a sager np9150?
02:37:33 <Bike> ok good news i have a story
02:37:48 <Bike> when i was just a wee bike under construction my parents were thinking about what to name me
02:38:05 <Bike> my mom wanted to go with "elliott" but my dad didn't like it
02:38:14 <elliott> are you serious
02:38:16 <mnoqy> that's a good story
02:38:24 <Bike> so he got her to get her boss to say "elllliottttt" like the alien in ET every time my mom walked by
02:38:33 <Bike> er, got her boss to*
02:38:39 <mnoqy> that's also a good story
02:38:46 <Bike> and so, i was not named "elliott".
02:38:57 <elliott> instead you were named "Bike"
02:39:14 <Gracenotes> more stories
02:39:18 <Bike> this is just a nom de guerre. my real name is Ike
02:39:21 <mnoqy> but if not elliott, what woulkd you be named?? are there any other names
02:39:39 <Bike> see previous message
02:39:42 <elliott> Bike "Ike" Bicycle
02:39:51 <elliott> or is it Ike "Bike" Bicycle
02:39:54 <Gracenotes> bike stories are a non-scarce resource
02:40:46 <Bike> it's Ike "Bike" Sumayang actually
02:43:36 <mnoqy> close enough
02:43:37 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello).
02:43:43 <Bike> bye mnoqy
02:43:57 <Fiora> elliott: geez, it looks like you can get a haswell i7, 765M, 15" 1080p screen, 240GB SSD, and like, 16GB RAM for ~$1300 now though right it's the UK so things probably get 10x worse
02:44:53 <elliott> oh that sounds pretty great (depending on weight and stuff), what model is that?
02:45:21 <Fiora> Sager NP7352 apparently?
02:45:40 <Fiora> (cheaper without the SSD and stuff, I'm just super biased because I have one -_-)
02:45:53 <Fiora> it's 6 pounds, even lighter than mine @_@
02:45:54 <shachaf> elliott also apparently wants it to weigh no more than 1.3kg or something
02:46:29 <Fiora> after spending days looking at laptops that were mostly 4-5kg I felt like I had discovered the garden of eden when I found one that was only about 3
02:46:36 <Bike> elliott is super biased because he weighs no more than 1.3 kg
02:46:45 <elliott> shachaf: I never said that :P
02:46:59 <elliott> Fiora: yeah I have an SSD now and don't plan to buy a computer without one if I can help it
02:47:10 <Fiora> Bike: elliott's like, my size :p
02:47:20 <shachaf> elliott: Well, you said it to me once.
02:47:32 <shachaf> anyway is the clevo w740su really so bad
02:47:39 <shachaf> imo find out so that you can tell me
02:47:43 <Bike> are ssds nice
02:47:51 <elliott> I'm actually a black hole and would prefer a laptop about the size of Jupiter
02:47:58 <elliott> so I can eat it
02:48:10 <Bike> size or mass
02:48:16 <elliott> Bike: yes but you have to get used to there not being any ticky noises when you install stuff
02:50:02 <elliott> Fiora: it seems like sager only sell in USD? so I guess it's just a question of how much shipping would cost
02:50:09 <Fiora> ummm let me see if there's any UK resellers
02:50:16 <elliott> or if they'd ship at all I guess
02:50:27 <Fiora> http://forum.notebookreview.com/sager-clevo/91510-clevo-guide-v2-0-faq-reseller-info.html
02:50:37 <Fiora> there's UK resellers
02:50:41 <elliott> oh it's also a clevo thingy?
02:50:48 <Fiora> sager is clevo basically <.<
02:50:53 <Fiora> they're two different brands for the same thing
02:50:53 <elliott> the system76 one shachaf linked me was clevo too
02:51:08 <shachaf> they're all clevo
02:51:13 <elliott> isn't it more like, clevo sell laptops to people who then brand them?
02:51:23 <Fiora> sager is clevo's gamer/performance brand, I think?
02:51:36 <shachaf> Sager laptops are manufactured by Clevo which are also sold under many other brand names. Sager is the biggest Clevo retailer.
02:51:46 <shachaf> ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sager_Notebook_Computers )
02:52:03 <elliott> I wonder if you can buy things directly from Clevo and save money???? probably you have to buy in bulk or something
02:52:52 <elliott> "5.) Uniqueness ("It Ain't a Dell"): Subjective to personal preference. But having a custom high-end notebook that the masses cannot identify is pretty 1337." this post is adorable
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02:54:00 <elliott> they should let you pay more to not have a numpad
02:54:18 <elliott> uh I wonder what the trackpads are like
02:55:08 <elliott> shachaf: is Nvidia Optimus the thing that gave you a ton of issues on Linux
02:55:21 <shachaf> elliott: yes
02:55:36 <shachaf> Maybe it works better for some people and/or with some cards, though.
02:55:41 <kmc> x=1; while [ -n "$x" ]; do x=$(lsmod | grep ^snd_ | awk '{print $1}' | shuf | head -1); sudo rmmod $x; done
02:55:46 <elliott> "The binary Nvidia driver added partial Optimus support May 3, 2013 in the 319.17.[6]" at least there's that
02:55:46 <kmc> shockingly effective
02:55:54 <shachaf> elliott: Yes, I tried that.
02:55:57 <shachaf> Didn't work for me.
02:56:01 <shachaf> But I didn't try very hard.
02:56:17 <shachaf> Only, y'know, a couple of hours or something.
02:59:08 <Fiora> yeah, you might not be able to turn off optimus :/
03:02:36 <Fiora> gosh, the NP7330 looks really good. it's a 13" 1080p laptop with like, better specs than mine, and it's just 4.6 pounds
03:05:01 <shachaf> @google 4.6 lbs in kg
03:05:04 <lambdabot> 2.0865249 kilograms
03:05:04 <lambdabot> http://www.evi.com/q/convert_4.6_lbs_to_kg
03:05:04 <lambdabot> Title: convert 4.6 lbs to kg - Evi
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03:21:54 <kmc> https://twitter.com/0xabad1dea/status/364852927170494464 'Found in code: /* v/=radix uses less CPU clocks than v=v/radix does */ If this is ACTUALLY true, slap your compiler silly'
03:22:29 <kmc> Bike: which local slang
03:22:46 <zzo38> kmc: Is v a floating point?
03:22:53 <Bike> kmc: "bunner"
03:23:11 <zzo38> Is v volatile?
03:23:17 <zzo38> Is v a macro?
03:23:42 <zzo38> I don't know what v and radix even are here, or what compiler you are using, or what computer it is.
03:24:11 <kmc> i've never heard that
03:26:15 <Bike> kmc: yeah that's why i said "more globally" but a friend told me, and urbandictionary backed him up, so i assume /womebody/ uses it
03:26:25 <elliott> kmc: does LVM work well with GPT and stuff
03:26:29 <elliott> I don't really know anything about this
03:26:40 <elliott> but you installed Debian with full-disk encryption on a new computer recently right
03:26:57 <Bike> i cannot believe how girly 0xabad1dea's profile is
03:35:26 <Bike> if Cons is a 2-ary type constructor (* -> * -> * i guess), could ConsList (like []) be defined as fix (\self t -> Cons t self)
03:37:18 <elliott> how is Cons defined?
03:37:38 <Bike> data Cons a b = Cons a b or whatever
03:37:41 <elliott> ok so (,)
03:37:48 <Bike> yeah sure.
03:37:48 <shachaf> Bike: There's no place for Nil there.
03:37:55 <elliott> [a] = mu (\self -> Maybe (a, self))
03:38:07 <elliott> and mu is basically fix.
03:38:12 <shachaf> So you'd get a stream, not a list (and you'd want a greatest fixed point, but, like, whatever).
03:38:12 <elliott> (it's least vs. upper bound stuff)
03:38:15 <elliott> er, least vs. greater
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03:38:20 <Bike> right ok elliott fixed it.
03:38:25 <shachaf> s/..$/, man)./
03:38:44 <shachaf> Hmm. I need to come up with a better way of phrasing that.
03:38:55 <elliott> Bike: basically you define a list of A as the least fixed point of F(L) = 1 + A * L
03:39:03 <elliott> + translates to Either, 1 translates to (), * translates to (,)
03:39:14 <elliott> so Either () (a, l) which is Maybe (a, l)
03:39:20 <elliott> and then you can work backwards to what I said
03:39:23 <Bike> so like is this doable in haskell (or some type theory that is simple i gues)
03:39:28 <elliott> you can write:
03:39:35 <elliott> newtype Fix f = Fix { break :: f (Fix f) }
03:39:38 <Bike> i mean y'all talk about mu but i'm pretty sure it's crazy bullshit?
03:39:43 <elliott> type List a = Fix (ListF a)
03:39:48 <shachaf> You can make Fix like elliott wrote.
03:39:55 <elliott> newtype ListF a l = ListF { listless :: Maybe (a, l) }
03:39:58 <shachaf> You can also make Mu and Nu but in practice there isn't much point in Haskell.
03:40:07 <shachaf> (Mu and Nu correspond to folds and unfolds.)
03:40:14 <elliott> you can also make a bunch of functor combinator things so you could say
03:40:27 <elliott> type List a = Fix (One :+: (An a :*: Arg))
03:40:32 <elliott> if you don't like having to define ListF
03:41:09 <Bike> what's An
03:41:18 <elliott> type One = An (); newtype An r a = An r {- this is Const -}; newtype (f :+: g) a = L (f a) | R (g a)
03:41:26 <elliott> newtype (f :*: g) a = f a :*: g a
03:41:43 <shachaf> good newtype
03:41:45 <elliott> nil = Fix (L (An ())
03:42:02 <elliott> cons x xs = Fix (R (An x :*: xs))
03:42:16 <elliott> this kind of thing is where the "algebraic" in "algebraic data types" comes from
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03:43:47 <kmc> elliott: I don't remember clearly enough
03:43:54 <Bike_> I don't think I understand Const.
03:43:58 <kmc> Debian installer will configure FDE by itself
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03:44:08 <elliott> Bike: did you miss the stuff I said
03:44:09 <Sgeo> I don't understand thisContext
03:44:12 <Bike> and i had a vague idea of algebra but wasn't sure how it worked with fixpoints
03:44:13 <elliott> I mean, the stuff unrelated to Const
03:44:25 <Bike> elliott: whenever i discon i check the log becaue otherwise it would be kind of unfair to people talking to me
03:44:29 <elliott> newtype Const r a = Const r
03:44:35 <elliott> do you not see how it's a Functor? just trying to see what the problem is
03:44:41 <elliott> fmap :: (a -> b) -> Const r a -> Const r b
03:44:49 <elliott> (Const r x) is equivalent to r for any x, so this is just
03:44:52 <Bike> i think i just
03:44:53 <elliott> fmap :: (a -> b) -> r -> r
03:44:56 <elliott> with a constructor in the way
03:45:00 <Bike> don't even understand the syntax :V
03:45:16 <elliott> uh is it newtype you don't know about, or
03:45:18 <shachaf> #esoteric-overflow
03:45:19 <elliott> trying to help!!
03:45:23 <Bike> i think it's newtype yes
03:45:26 <kmc> #esoteric-in-depth
03:45:29 <elliott> okay pretend it says data instead of newtype
03:45:33 <Bike> i remember it being a type alias or something but i have no idea what that means
03:45:35 <elliott> it's exactly the same for our purposes
03:46:03 <elliott> (it's more efficient at runtime for a type that just wraps another one (i.e. one constructor, one field) and has some dumb edge-cases with undefined/nontermination that you should try not to think about)
03:46:20 * comex wonders why that isn't just done automatically
03:46:28 <elliott> comex: aforementioned edge-cases
03:46:35 <elliott> sometimes you want the indirection
03:46:44 <Bike> so when you have that fmap, it's actually like (a -> b) -> Const r -> Const r but Const r is equivalent to r because well obviously.
03:46:47 <elliott> even (data Foo = Foo !Bar) isn't equivalent to (newtype Foo = Foo Bar)
03:46:57 <shachaf> imo just use a strict language
03:46:58 <elliott> because matching on the latter's Foo is irrefutable, but not the former's
03:47:06 <elliott> Bike: Const r a -> Const r b
03:47:09 <elliott> it takes two type paramters
03:47:12 <Bike> yes but like
03:47:14 <elliott> (Const r) is the functor, just like [] is a functor
03:47:22 <shachaf> poor Bike
03:47:28 <Bike> nevermind i get it
03:47:39 <elliott> Bike: sorry, I didn't know whether you were being imprecise or it was part of the confusion
03:47:45 <Bike> i was being imprecise
03:47:50 <elliott> since the parameter is irrelevant but also, like, the point
03:47:58 <Bike> it's the "= Const r" that gets me, "= r" would be more intuitive to me
03:48:05 <Bike> but that doesn't work with data of course
03:48:17 <shachaf> The Const on the right is a constructor, not a type.
03:48:19 <Bike> riht.
03:48:22 <Bike> right
03:48:23 <shachaf> I think this is confusing and so does SPJ.
03:48:27 <Bike> anyway let me try to define the fmap.
03:48:28 <elliott> data Const r a = TheThing { value :: r }
03:49:06 <Bike> is it just fmap _ (Const rv) = rv
03:49:12 <Bike> er no
03:49:22 <Bike> fmap _ (Const rv) = Const rv
03:49:27 <shachaf> Yes.
03:50:22 <kmc> woah UPS stores do 3D printing now
03:50:25 <kmc> (a few of them)
03:50:58 <shachaf> kmc: to save on shipping costs, right?
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03:52:07 <Bike_> just sitting outside in the cool air, learnin babby's first math and pissing on routers
03:52:38 <comex> so, uh
03:52:41 <comex> i implemented this fancy trigram thing
03:52:57 <comex> but searching the entire archive without it takes 0.17s
03:53:08 <comex> oh well, trigrams are cool
03:53:30 <comex> % time python iwc.py --search-messages '/ais[^5][^2][^3]/'
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03:55:00 <kmc> which math
03:55:15 <kmc> also do you think the piss interferes with the correct functioning of the routers
03:55:19 <kmc> it seems to
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03:56:27 <Bike> it's possible, slightly possible
03:56:33 <elliott> Bike_: basically the reason we want Const is because the functor argument to our list functor is actually the list
03:56:36 <elliott> type.
03:56:37 <elliott> because fixpoint
03:56:51 <elliott> so we want to ignore it for the actual value in the list and for the nil case.
03:57:41 <Bike> right
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04:03:30 <Bike_> are there any recursive types that can't be rewritten into Mufuckery?
04:03:32 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike.
04:03:55 <Bike> pretty sure the answer is no but i gotta ask all the dumb quetions
04:04:24 <shachaf> Bike: Well, that depends on what you mean by Mu.
04:04:49 <shachaf> Usually you talk about the fixed point of a (covariant) functor, but Haskell lets you have negative recursion.
04:04:59 <Bike> and i'm lost.
04:05:13 <shachaf> Something like data Rec a = Rec (Rec a -> a)
04:05:20 <shachaf> Recursion with something on the left side of a ->
04:06:34 <shachaf> That lets you do all sorts of evil things, and it's usually forbidden in total languages.
04:07:51 <shachaf> In Haskell it still works out to be the same thing with Fix, I think, but you can't use any function that relies on a Functor constraint.
04:12:33 <Bike> i didn't understand any of that and i don't think i'm going to any time soon
04:13:17 <shachaf> Sorry. I should have put it differently.
04:13:28 <kmc> I keep forgetting that you can install xmonad and xdm and firefox and still not install the X server
04:13:47 <shachaf> Do you know what negative/positive positions, or covariant/contravariant functors, are?
04:13:55 <Bike> no
04:18:28 <shachaf> Well, covariant (i.e. normal) functors are things that give you fmap :: (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
04:18:38 <shachaf> Contravariant functors give you contramap :: (a -> b) -> f b -> f a
04:19:47 <Bike> example?
04:20:06 <shachaf> newtype Op r a = Op (a -> r)
04:21:42 <shachaf> (And e.g. Predicate a = a -> Bool and so on.)
04:22:38 <elliott> I wonder whether unstable is better than testing these days
04:22:49 <elliott> also what happened to the whole rolling-release Debian plan
04:25:18 <Bike> so contramap foo pred = \a -> pred (foo a) and wow i've been told this before haven't i.
04:26:32 <shachaf> Note that Op r (Op r a) is covariant again.
04:32:03 <Bike> Is "arrays of length 4" a dependent type? (or rather the constructor N -> a type like that)
04:33:35 <elliott> the debian unstable faq is good
04:33:36 <elliott> Should I use sid on my server?
04:33:36 <elliott> Are you insane? No!
04:33:50 <Bike> ableism~
04:40:10 <kmc> status: once again drinking scotch out of a mongodb mug
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04:51:51 <Bike> kmc: what's the sh do? randomly kill sound devices until they're all stopped?
04:57:26 <kmc> removes kernel modules yeah
04:57:34 <kmc> cause I can't be bothered to figure out the dependency graph
04:57:40 <kmc> especially when lsmod only shows part of it seemingly
05:00:00 <Bike> :k Forall a. [a]
05:00:01 <lambdabot> Illegal symbol '.' in type
05:00:01 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended -XRankNTypes or similar flag
05:00:01 <lambdabot> to enable explicit-forall syntax: forall <tvs>. <type>
05:00:10 <Bike> :k forall a. [a]
05:00:11 <lambdabot> Illegal symbol '.' in type
05:00:11 <lambdabot> Perhaps you intended -XRankNTypes or similar flag
05:00:11 <lambdabot> to enable explicit-forall syntax: forall <tvs>. <type>
05:00:14 <kmc> https://medium.com/geek-empire-1/a1ebd2b4a0e5 is a good essay. bruce fucking sterling
05:00:25 <Bike> oh.
05:00:46 <elliott> are laptops still stupid about overcharging batteries these days
05:01:03 <kmc> are u still stupid these days #owned
05:01:25 <elliott> yes :(
05:01:31 <Bike> cablegate is disappointing because apparently nobody's actually bothered reading the cables? some of them are pretty interesting!
05:01:47 <kmc> lots of people have read them
05:02:06 <Bike> yes but i don't know any of those people
05:02:12 <kmc> i do, checkmate
05:02:17 <Bike> damn got me
05:06:33 <Bike> "Julian has turned out to be a Tim Leary at the NSA’s psychiatric convention. " lol
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05:14:55 <Sgeo> `slist elevatorstuck
05:14:58 <HackEgo> slist elevatorstuck: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot
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06:04:42 <shachaf> Bike: Not necessarily dependent.
06:04:54 <Bike> No?
06:05:09 <shachaf> Well, is N a runtime value?
06:05:58 <Bike> oh, i see.
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06:50:54 <zzo38> Is there the compiler C program into Dalvik VM?
06:52:15 <shachaf> Bike: Anyway, the thing I was saying was about fixed points of covariant functors vs. other types.
06:52:27 <shachaf> You run into some strange things with fixed points of other types.
06:55:20 <shachaf> In particular Fix (Op a) is ""weird curry's paradox type""
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07:10:33 <Bike> Fix (Op a) is g = g -> a, sorta? so fix? (which makes everything inhabited or whatever)
07:11:52 <shachaf> Well, it's newtype Rec a = Rec (Rec a -> a)
07:12:06 <elliott> (so yes)
07:12:12 <shachaf> Yes.
07:12:37 <shachaf> To the first part, anyway. I'm not sure what the rest means?
07:12:52 <Bike> me neither
07:13:24 <Bike> something about how fix existing means all types have something in them which means everything is true in curry-howard and a type theorist comes around to my house and smashes up my windows
07:14:12 <shachaf> Well, you can use this type to write fix, but I'm not what you have in mind.
07:14:51 <Bike> i'm not what i have in mind either
07:15:08 <elliott> well, _|_ is what corresponds to using Curry's paradox to prove anything.
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07:23:33 <Jafet> You could trick the type theorist into believing that your house is uninhabited.
07:35:27 <kmc> zzo38: I saw a thing to compile C to JVM via MIPS, presumably you could feed that into the Dalvik compiler
07:35:35 <kmc> of course you can also run C code natively on most android devices
07:35:49 <shachaf> i think you have to compile it first
07:36:00 <kmc> or hey compile it with emscripten and then run it in Rhino
07:36:00 <kmc> so many ways
07:36:26 <kmc> it's just boxes and arrows
07:36:33 <olsner> I think native code is only supported on android newer than 1.5
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07:45:03 <zzo38> I have written some C programs and maybe if someone want to work it in Android too, such as the "Aimfiz" Z-machine interpreter, is meant for SDL but maybe someone can port to Android since I think Aimfiz is the least buggy Z-machine interpreter as far as I can see (tell me if you do find a bug).
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08:53:44 <fizzie> There's a generic port for SDL stuff on Android; things like OpenTTD, Ur-Quan Masters and such run on it.
08:55:45 <fizzie> (It does need native code suppot.)
08:58:45 <fizzie> I think the NDK is sufficiently good and supported that people haven't really spent time on turning C to Dalvik bytecode; the few "Dalvik backend for LLVM" projects I can see seem quite dead.
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10:18:56 <nortti> ``I'm The 14-Year-Old Who Wrote The "Jesus Isn't A Dick So Keep Him Out of My Vagina" Sign In Texas And Was Labeled A "Whore" By Strangers Online''
10:19:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: `I'm: not found
10:21:23 <zzo38> fizzie: Maybe then it helps, if someone wants to play a Z-machine game on Android using the Aimfiz interpreter engine instead of some other one. With a keyboard you might even work it without a lot of changes, but if you don't have a keyboard then you will need to put an on-screen keyboard, and the "mouse menus" (of Z-code v5) might be helpful too.
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10:23:10 <zzo38> But I have absolutely no idea how the Z-machine version 5 mouse menus are supposed to work; the only things I know is this: There are four menus called the directions menu, inventory menu, frequent verbs menu, and frequent words menu. The extension table contains pointers to tables corresponding to these menus, and there is a bitfield to indicate of the menu has been changed.
10:23:33 <zzo38> The format of these tables is unknown.
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10:34:22 <plugnburn> hi there
10:34:30 <plugnburn> is deciode here?
10:34:49 <zzo38> Hello. I don't know "deciode", sorry
10:34:57 <zzo38> What is it you wanted?
10:36:05 <plugnburn> Sorry for da panic... he made a port of MSM implementation to Ruby, then suggested a new operator, then _suddenly_ disappeared when I implemented what he asked for :)
10:36:11 <plugnburn> and didn't update his port
10:36:59 <zzo38> I don't know what to do about that, but you could mention that on the esolang wiki too
10:37:03 <plugnburn> http://esolangs.org/wiki/MSM
10:37:14 <plugnburn> see Discussion page
10:37:38 <plugnburn> and I did mention it in See Also, that his port is incomplete
10:37:41 <zzo38> I already have that open.
10:38:53 <zzo38> Could you post your implementation on there?
10:39:06 <plugnburn> I did
10:39:27 <plugnburn> http://esolangs.org/wiki/MSM#Implementations - both are mine
10:39:46 <plugnburn> https://gist.github.com/plugnburn/6150089- this is the reference one
10:39:55 <plugnburn> https://gist.github.com/plugnburn/6150089
10:40:13 <zzo38> OK
10:43:14 <zzo38> I write down things about dreams I have had and what others have told me. Someone once told me his dream where the doctor asked him if he had ever been to the moon, he answered no, and then the doctor asked him to prove it; the doctor couldn't help him if he could not prove that he has never been to the moon.
10:44:53 <plugnburn> nice :) someone told me Underload is Turing-complete but I can't yet prove MSM is Turing complete by translating its code to Underload. Is there a doctor that can help me? :)
10:45:41 <zzo38> If they are a doctor of esoteric programming, then maybe.
10:46:34 <plugnburn> ok, gonna go, have a nice day
10:47:04 <zzo38> OK
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11:04:11 <katla> JSON or s-expressions? You better brush up both ;-)
11:04:32 <katla> https://twitter.com/ICFPContest2013
11:05:09 <katla> i am traouble with s-expression, guys what comes after left bananna ?
11:10:10 <ion> I’m not sure you can really do anything about that, just accept the feeling of imbalance.
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11:46:28 <fizzie> zzo38: The Android version of SDL includes a built-in onscreen keyboard for keyboardless devices, I believe.
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12:57:36 <boily> good ff23 morning!
12:58:14 <quintopia> still stuck in boston
12:58:21 <quintopia> i could get a car if there were a driver
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12:59:49 <boily> ~metar KBOS
12:59:50 <metasepia> KBOS 071254Z 15005KT 10SM BKN250 21/16 A3019 RMK AO2 SLP221 T02060161
13:00:40 <boily> quintopia: why not enjoy the weather? the nice food courts? the new england accent?
13:00:54 <quintopia> i would enjoy the weather more on the trail, hiking
13:00:58 <quintopia> and i am tired of city
13:01:08 <quintopia> that is a pleasant high for the day tho
13:03:06 <boily> strangely, for an outdoor activity, it's difficult to go hiking without a car.
13:26:48 <boily> GHAAAAAARGH! I don't have time to read the new Monad Reader issue! but the temptation is strong...
13:26:53 <boily> must resist...
13:26:58 <katla> ill read it for you
13:30:19 <katla> first two articles are old hat and 3rd it too complicated to bother reading
13:33:55 <boily> but I have to feel the old hattery by myself, and the be surrounded by warm and fuzzy complexification!
13:34:35 <boily> there's this need, nay, this gaping hole in my heart that can only be filled by a floating spacesuit stuffed with oranges and apples.
13:48:04 <boily> okay, the first article is meh.
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14:24:05 <Roujo> ~metar CYUL
14:24:06 <metasepia> CYUL 071400Z 14008KT 30SM SCT055 BKN075 BKN240 22/14 A3006 RMK SC4AC2CI1 SLP179 DENSITY ALT 800FT
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15:11:10 <quintopia> i have a way out of boston!
15:11:16 * quintopia dances with boily
15:12:16 <shachaf> What, you're moving to SF?
15:12:24 <boily> I feel danced...
15:12:35 <quintopia> i wish
15:13:29 <quintopia> this song is strangely catchy
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15:27:00 <Bike> http://tinysubversions.com/stuff/thisJustIn/
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16:14:11 <zzo38> Do you sometimes have dream where you are a different person and/or a different species?
16:14:29 <Bike> yeah
16:16:11 <boily> my dreams are boring. there's no sound, no people, no movement, and I tend to do nothing in still places.
16:17:45 <Roujo> That sounds kinda boring, yeah
16:20:05 <zzo38> If the Android version of SDL include a on-screen keyboard for keyboardless devices, well, still might it be useful to customize it? Does it include to customize the on-screen keyboard? (For example, to include the Z-machine keys, and other things, like in Aimfiz you use CTRL+T to select the transcript slot and CTRL+L for scrollback, etc, and it can also change depending on context)
16:20:38 <Bike> i don't actually type letters on my android phone, i use the swipey thing
16:21:00 <Bike> which i think would work fine for an adventure game...
16:21:22 <Roujo> Swipe, swipe, swipe the monsters
16:21:31 <Roujo> Swiftly out of the screeeeeeeen
16:22:31 <zzo38> Still, you might need functions keys, and sometimes it is single-key input and sometimes full-line input, sometimes timed, and there are some control functions in Aimfiz too...
16:23:53 <Bike> you could have virtual buttons, like all the game machine emulators
16:24:43 <zzo38> Probably customizing the on-screen keyboard to have those functions would help it; if you have a physical keyboard with all the necessary keys then you don't need those
16:24:59 <Bike> why's it have to be part of the keyboard?
16:25:46 <zzo38> I suppose, so that you can hide it together with the rest of the keyboard, and so that if you have a physical keyboard then you can use that instead.
16:27:01 <zzo38> At least, that is what I would think it would be.
16:27:08 <zzo38> Do you think it would be otherwise?
16:27:16 <nooodl> i'd go crazy trying to play interactive fiction games on my phone
16:28:37 <zzo38> I might, too (I don't have a cell phone; I make computer stuff on computer instead), but some people would like to be able to play this game on a Android phone/tablet.
16:29:30 <zzo38> I think there are already some Z-machine interpreters for such device but they are buggy software and you might want to port the Aimfiz interpreter engine which seems to be more accurate.
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16:36:53 <fizzie> Current version of the 'postgresql' metapackage (it depends on the supported PostgreSQL version, currently 9.1) in debian-unstable: "9.3+142really9.1+146".
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16:40:37 <Roujo> Well that's nice
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16:42:41 <Deewiant> fizzie: Why
16:43:11 <fizzie> Deewiant: I don't know, but I'm sure it's some sort of versioning mishap combined with "can't make version numbers smaller" thing.
16:43:35 <Deewiant> apt doesn't have anything like an epoch?
16:44:52 <shachaf> We only give the most basic definitions of categories, functors, and natural transformations. For a gentler introduction, with more details and examples, see e.g. Mac Lane [29].
16:45:57 <fizzie> Deewiant: It does; that'd be something like 1:9.1+146, which, admittedly, would look nicer.
16:46:04 <fizzie> (If there's no colon, the epoch is zero.)
16:46:37 <katla> shachaf, yes??
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16:46:48 <fizzie> Maybe they're planning to make 9.3 the supported version in unstable/testing anyway soon-enough, and didn't want to bump up the epoch. Who knows.
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16:47:45 <Deewiant> They just want their mistake to be forgotten instead of being forever encoded as the epoch.
16:49:01 <zzo38> Could they put a feature of temporary epoch?
16:49:04 <Gregor> fizzie: Yeah, they'd avoid an epoch if it was just to work around a temporary bug.
16:49:25 <Gregor> zzo38: The epochs are just a string property of version numbers, there's no meaning to "temporaryness" of them.
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17:11:52 <zzo38> Gregor: I meant if they would add such a feature to the package manager, so that there is also another kind of temporary epoch as well.
17:19:02 <Gregor> But what does "temporary" mean? You don't want for it to be temporary in time, because a version which is numerically lower should FOREVER be newer than a version which is numerically higher, but also older than a different version which is numerically higher.
17:20:48 <fizzie> "Unable to start X session --- no '~/.xsession' file, no '~/.Xsession' file, no session managers, no window managers, and no terminal emulators found; aborting." Such a desperate-sounding error.
17:21:03 <zzo38> Well, you would have to specify what version it overrides; sometimes a version overrides another one, such as if a new version is made up but you need an old version to override it, or for another reason; an explicit "override" section might do.
17:24:49 <Gregor> But then you need all relevant versions (the global ordering) to create a local ordering, or you need for the version to specify EVERY version it overrides, which could include versions by third parties or not in the repo. e.g. 9.3+142really9.1+146 presumably also overrides 9.2+whatever, but it didn't need to specify that because 9.3+142 is numerically greater than 9.2+whatever.
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17:42:57 <fizzie> Bleh, this thing has the thing where altgr-space generates U+00a0 (a non-break space), and I keep typing it after every | because | here comes from altgr-[the key with <, > and |] and then it's all "bash: $'\302\240less': command not found".
17:43:57 <Deewiant> Where "the thing" = xkb_symbols configuration.
17:44:23 <Lumpio-> fizzie: ...disable it
17:45:35 <boily> fizzie: finnish keyboard layout?
17:47:41 <fizzie> Deewiant: Do you happen to know if I can easily setxkbmap it dead? (I've been trying out a life without a desktop environment lately.)
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17:48:03 <katla> damn it
17:48:09 <katla> im excited about icfp
17:48:25 <katla> i really want to see what the goal is
17:48:52 <Deewiant> fizzie: I don't know about "easily" but you can make a copy of the symbols file and make the change and setxkbmap | xkbcomp that
17:49:33 <fizzie> I guess I'll do something like that.
17:49:39 <ion> fizzie: My sincere suggestion: the US International (AltGr dead keys) layout. It’s great.
17:50:41 <olsner> hmm, I need food
17:51:34 <boily> we have ready access to freshly made bánh mì near our offices.
17:52:15 <olsner> good for you
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18:06:35 <boily> `quote `relcome sacje
18:06:38 <HackEgo> No output.
18:06:46 <boily> `relcome sacje
18:06:50 <HackEgo> sacje: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:07:04 <sacje> thanks boily
18:07:09 <sacje> `thank boily
18:07:10 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: thank: not found
18:07:16 <sacje> oh well, worth a shot
18:07:19 <Bike> `thanks boily
18:07:20 <HackEgo> Thanks, boily. Thoily.
18:07:25 <sacje> oh
18:07:27 * sacje shrugs
18:07:32 <ka7la> `thanks HackEgo
18:07:33 <HackEgo> Thanks, HackEgo. ThackEgo.
18:07:50 <ion> `hi HackEgo
18:07:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hi: not found
18:09:55 <ion> `run sed -re 's/\<Thanks,/Hi/; s/\<Th\>/H/; s/\<T\>/H/' <bin/thanks >bin/hi && chmod +x bin/hi && cat bin/hi
18:09:59 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Hi $_. "; if (/[aeiouy]/) { s/^[^aeiouy]*/H/; } else { s/^./H/; } print "$_.";
18:10:08 <ion> `hi HackEgo
18:10:09 <HackEgo> Hi HackEgo. HackEgo.
18:11:23 <shachaf> ion: You should make bin/þanks
18:11:42 <ion> shachaf: no u
18:12:39 <shachaf> no þx
18:13:55 <Bike> `hi carcinogens
18:13:56 <HackEgo> Hi carcinogens. Harcinogens.
18:14:31 <ion> `run sed -i -re 's/aeiouy/aeiouyAEIOUY/g' bin/thanks bin/hi && cat bin/thanks
18:14:34 <HackEgo> ​#!/usr/bin/perl \ $_ = (join " ", @ARGV) || `words`; s/^\s+|\s+$//g; print "Thanks, $_. "; if (/[aeiouyAEIOUY]/) { s/^[^aeiouyAEIOUY]*/Th/; } else { s/^./T/; } print "$_.";
18:14:47 <ion> The i flag would have worked, too, but whatever.
18:15:08 <Bike> `thanks
18:15:11 <ion> `hi GUYS
18:15:12 <HackEgo> Hi GUYS. HUYS.
18:15:13 <HackEgo> Thanks, therery. Therery.
18:16:41 -!- ka7la has changed nick to katla.
18:17:42 <Roujo> `hi
18:17:44 <HackEgo> Hi . H.
18:18:14 <boily> therery???
18:18:27 <Roujo> `hi Hi
18:18:28 <HackEgo> Hi Hi. Hi.
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18:18:46 <katla> im too excited about icfp
18:18:48 <katla> help
18:18:52 <elliott> ion: it should support vowels in other languages
18:18:52 <Roujo> `cat icfp
18:18:53 <HackEgo> cat: icfp: No such file or directory
18:18:59 <boily> `? icfp
18:18:59 <katla> as soon as i find out what its about ill stop carig
18:19:01 <HackEgo> icfp? ¯\(°_o)/¯
18:19:01 <elliott> is there a [[:vowely:]]
18:19:01 <myndzi> |
18:19:01 <myndzi> º¯`\o
18:19:31 <Gregor> Hm, the new IOCCC sizing tool counts keywords as 1 character.
18:19:36 <Gregor> So there's no benefit to #defining them away.
18:19:39 <Roujo> `cat /dev/urandom > dog
18:19:39 <boily> katla: go look at some Java. it will help you feel better.
18:19:40 <HackEgo> cat: /dev/urandom > dog: No such file or directory
18:19:41 <ion> elliott: Yeah. Too bad there’s no “vowel” character class. I guess we could use Unidecode and then match against its result.
18:19:50 <katla> what
18:20:16 <Roujo> `quote Shakespear
18:20:18 <HackEgo> 884) <hagb4rd> what is this set? sounds like shakespear <fizzie> Yes, that's what people often say about Chrono Trigger.
18:20:19 <Roujo> DAMMIT
18:20:23 <Roujo> Oh
18:20:27 <Roujo> Well, that was surprising
18:20:41 <Roujo> `quote cat
18:20:43 <HackEgo> 105) <coppro> what's the data of? [...] <Sgeo> Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation <coppro> I have no problems with you being interested in online games <coppro> but the necrophilia is disturbing \ 113) <fungot> CakeProphet: reading herbert might be enlightening in one hand he held a long worm can be greased. twice i got it nearly th
18:21:05 <Roujo> Oh
18:21:10 <Roujo> Locations
18:21:12 <Roujo> Took at while
18:21:37 <shachaf> `quote kitten
18:21:38 <HackEgo> 756) <Phantom_Hoover> i once had a dream when i was told to look after some kittens but they were made of chocolate and i ate them :(
18:21:52 <Roujo> `quote `quote
18:21:54 <HackEgo> 310) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one \ 311) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django
18:22:12 <shachaf> `quine
18:22:12 <boily> `quote `quote `quote
18:22:13 <HackEgo> No output.
18:22:15 <HackEgo> ​`quote `quote `quote
18:22:25 <Roujo> `ls
18:22:26 <HackEgo> a.c \ a.out \ bi \ bin \ canary \ delvs \ delvs-master \ etc \ factor \ hi-bool.bf \ ibin \ interps \ karma \ lib \ master.tar.gz \ multiply.bf \ no \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ wisdom
18:22:33 <Bike> `quote 407
18:22:35 <HackEgo> 407) <NihilistDandy> The Russian's emblem was the hammer and sickle, not the fist and other fist
18:22:41 <Roujo> Heh =P
18:22:42 <Bike> wait
18:22:43 <Bike> agh
18:22:48 <NihilistDandy> Haha
18:22:50 <Roujo> `cd karma
18:22:51 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: cd: not found
18:22:54 <Roujo> Awww =P
18:22:56 <Bike> `quote 311
18:22:57 <HackEgo> 311) <monqy> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 407) <cpressey> `quote django <HackEgo> ​352) <olsner> django is named after a person? <olsner> thought it would be a giraffe or something <cpressey> thankfully only one <monqy> thankfully only two
18:23:05 <Roujo> `ls karma
18:23:06 <HackEgo> karma
18:23:11 <Bike> wow confusin imo
18:23:18 <Roujo> `cat karma
18:23:19 <HackEgo> GregoR now has 1 karma.
18:23:25 <Roujo> o_0
18:23:27 <Bike> sensible.
18:23:34 <Bike> `cat bin/karma
18:23:35 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ echo "$1 has $(lib/karma "$1") karma."
18:23:37 <Bike> is what you meant, probably
18:23:55 <Bike> wait, why is it in lib.
18:24:01 <Roujo> Well, there seems to be a karma, erm, thing in the root?
18:24:09 <Bike> `cat lib/karma
18:24:10 <HackEgo> ​#!/bin/sh \ count () { \ hg log --template '{desc}\n' | \ egrep '<[^]]*> karma\'$1 | \ fgrep -vix "<$2> karma$1 $2" | \ cut -d' ' -f3 | \ fgrep -cix "$2" \ } \ plus=$(count + "$1") \ minus=$(count - "$1") \ echo $(($plus-$minus))
18:24:24 <Bike> wow i love how horrible everything about these things are
18:24:56 <Gregor> Presumably the file in the root is just there by mistake.
18:24:56 <Roujo> `touch god
18:24:59 <Roujo> Erm
18:25:00 <HackEgo> No output.
18:25:03 <Roujo> `touch dog
18:25:06 <HackEgo> No output.
18:25:08 <Bike> `rm karma
18:25:08 <Roujo> `cat dog
18:25:11 <HackEgo> No output.
18:25:13 <HackEgo> No output.
18:27:52 <elliott> I forgot how cute lib/karma is
18:28:18 <Roujo> `cat /dev/null
18:28:19 <HackEgo> No output.
18:28:41 <boily> ~duck karma
18:28:42 <metasepia> Karma in Indian religions is the concept of "action" or "deed", understood as that which causes the entire cycle of cause and effect.
18:29:29 <Gregor> Duck Karma is gained by being gentle with your corkscrew penis.
18:31:02 <Bike> `pastelog kmc.*essay
18:31:36 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.15627
18:32:18 <Roujo> Oh
18:32:25 <katla> elliot pls play that shit game again
18:32:26 <Roujo> I thought that was a conversation
18:32:34 <Roujo> I was like "NOTHING FOLLOWS"
18:32:40 <Roujo> "WHY DON'T I UNDERSTAND"
18:33:39 <elliott> katla: I'm traumatised by it
18:33:44 <elliott> have to forget about it before I can play again
18:33:48 <Bike> yeah but it's been like weeks
18:33:54 <katla> haha ok
18:33:55 <Bike> you forgot about it for sure.
18:33:58 <elliott> Bike: if you played it
18:34:00 <elliott> you would understand
18:34:06 <Bike> why would i ever play it?
18:35:33 <Gregor> What the boink are we talking about...
18:35:44 <elliott> Dot Action 2, greatest game in the universe
18:35:52 <elliott> http://offgao.no-ip.org/game/dotact2/
18:36:55 <boily> ah no. no no no no no no. that thing is still alive?
18:38:36 <Bike> as long as there is evil in the hearts of humanity, it will live
18:41:05 <Roujo> oh shit
18:41:12 <Roujo> That floor is electrified or something
18:41:38 <elliott> it's lava. anyone who tells you it isn't lava is a cretin
18:41:51 <Roujo> Alright
18:42:15 <elliott> and the grey stuff is water
18:42:41 <Roujo> That I understood
18:42:57 <Roujo> After getting elec^H^H^H^Hburnt to a crisp
18:42:57 <Lumpio-> It's electricity
18:43:03 <Lumpio-> It says so in the instructions.
18:43:15 <elliott> even offgao can be wrong.
18:43:22 * Bike notes "Lumpio- is a cretin" in his notes
18:43:30 <elliott> it is unreasonable to expect him to understand his own game. dot action 2 is bigger than any of us
18:44:46 <Lumpio-> .__.
18:46:11 <Lumpio-> I like the FM music though
18:46:12 <Lumpio-> a lot
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18:57:57 -!- boily has changed nick to BleuetBleu.
18:58:37 <BleuetBleu> LimeJaune: j'aurais bien voulu avoir pris CitronVert, mais il semblerait qu'un autre tarlan que moi en soit l'utilisateur courant.
18:58:53 <LimeJaune> Yup =P
18:58:56 <LimeJaune> That's the joke =P
18:59:01 <BleuetBleu> aurgh.
18:59:01 <LimeJaune> #electrolab
18:59:54 <zzo38> I do not understand it in French very well.
19:00:23 <olsner> what's a tarlan?
19:00:58 <LimeJaune> Moron =P
19:01:19 <shachaf> LimeJaune: Hey, all he did was ask a question! That's not nice.
19:01:41 <LimeJaune> <3
19:02:29 -!- LimeJaune has changed nick to Roujo.
19:03:09 <shachaf> Roujo: Who are you, anyway? Whence do you know oerjan?
19:04:23 <Roujo> What's a whence?
19:04:29 <shachaf> "from where"
19:04:32 <Roujo> Oh ^^
19:04:36 <Roujo> ##nomic
19:04:42 <shachaf> Oh.
19:05:53 <Bike> @pl a b c = map ((flip d) c) b
19:05:56 <lambdabot> a = id (fix (const (flip (map . flip d))))
19:05:57 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
19:06:15 <Bike> looks sensible
19:06:38 <Bike> @pl-resume
19:06:44 <lambdabot> a = id (fix (const (flip (map . flip d))))
19:06:45 <lambdabot> optimization suspended, use @pl-resume to continue.
19:06:48 <shachaf> elliott: Oh, did I mention @pl?
19:06:58 <Bike> dern
19:07:11 <shachaf> shachaf@carbon:~$ pointfree 'a b c = map ((flip d) c) b'
19:07:11 <shachaf> a = flip (map . flip d)
19:07:11 <zzo38> Why did it put "id" at the front?
19:07:12 <shachaf> hth
19:07:40 <zzo38> shachaf: That is better.
19:07:52 <olsner> shachaf: elliott probably knows about @pl already
19:08:07 <shachaf> Yes, but we were talking about what recently broke in lambdabot.
19:08:24 <shachaf> zzo38: @pl initially compiles Haskell code using a very direct process to a point-free form and then optimizes it by e.g. eliminating "id".
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19:08:47 <zzo38> Why does it make like that though? It didn't eliminate "id", and it did other things too.
19:09:10 <shachaf> It's broken right now. I don't know why.
19:11:07 <katla> @pl f x = id x
19:11:08 <lambdabot> f = id
19:11:12 <katla> @pl f x = id (id x)
19:11:12 <lambdabot> f = id
19:11:21 <olsner> you don't know? that's not very helpful
19:12:32 <shachaf> olsner: i never said it was helpful hth
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19:13:27 <Roujo> What does hth mean?
19:13:49 <shachaf> hope that helped
19:13:53 <shachaf> or
19:13:55 <shachaf> hope that helps
19:13:58 <Roujo> Cool ^^
19:14:02 <Roujo> Thanks =)
19:14:23 <olsner> I usually read it as happy to help
19:15:01 <olsner> (because I think that goes better with completely unhelpful statements)
19:15:04 <shachaf> `? hth
19:15:06 <HackEgo> hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous.
19:15:52 <Roujo> >okay.png
19:17:50 * olsner draws a bahth
19:18:51 <Gracenotes> don't do mehth kids
19:19:14 <shachaf> 4d8+20
19:19:14 <lambdabot> shachaf: 21 + 20 => 41
19:19:22 <olsner> (it's bad for your teehth)
19:19:51 <boily> `dice 4 8
19:19:52 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: dice: not found
19:19:56 <boily> ~dice 4 8
19:19:56 <metasepia> 3 1 2 4 3 2 3 4 --- Sum = 22
19:21:04 <zzo38> FurryScript also includes dice function, including such feature as drop-lowest and glitch. If you have PHP then maybe you can even install it on the IRC too.
19:21:43 <shachaf> 1d3
19:21:43 <lambdabot> shachaf: 3
19:22:25 <shachaf> lambdabot: liar
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19:34:42 <boily> ~dice 3
19:34:42 <metasepia> 1 --- Sum = 1
19:35:44 <shachaf> 1d(1d4)
19:36:24 <boily> shachaf: what is the expected value of a Xd(YdZ) throw?
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19:40:30 <boily> augur: oh hai! while you're there, would you kindly answer to the The Question, namely what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? as a bonus, you'll even surpass Bike as the first Glorious Entry in my file.
19:42:04 <Gregor> What a creepy thing to ask a person.
19:42:29 <Gregor> Sounds like the kind of questions one asks on Grindr.
19:43:18 <boily> ~duck grindr
19:43:18 <metasepia> Grindr is a geosocial networking application geared towards gay, bisexual, and bi-curious men.
19:43:58 <boily> oh. uhm. in my capacity as a Certified Canadian, I truthfully attest that I'm not creepy.
19:44:24 <shachaf> boily: For 1d(1dX) it should be (X+2)/3 or something like that?
19:44:48 <boily> Gregor: I can also bribe you with a box of timbits.
19:45:03 <Gregor> I don't know what timbits are...
19:45:09 <Gregor> Unless they're bits of people named Tim.
19:45:33 <Fiora> boily really, really ~really~ needs to know the centroid of esoteric
19:45:36 <Gregor> Which just places you in the snuff version of Grindr.
19:46:19 <shachaf> Hmm, that's not right.
19:46:43 <boily> Gregor: timbits are donut holes from tim hortons. a traditional Canadian delicacy (that is actually edible, contrary to salmiakki).
19:46:55 <boily> Fiora: I do.
19:47:02 <elliott> Fiora: once he finds it he's going to get there whatever it takes and set up his base.
19:47:09 <elliott> then the scheming begins.
19:47:21 <elliott> it will be powered by the magnetic force of all the esoteric around it
19:47:21 <boily> shachaf: no idea about the dice dice throw. I suck at probs. and stats., so that's why I asked you the question.
19:47:38 <shachaf> Well, that's why I gave you a nonsense answer.
19:47:59 * boily duck tapes elliott to mute him. “Hush! Don't reveal my plans!”
19:49:25 <Fiora> or he's trying to like
19:49:34 <Fiora> play subset-sum with our weights
19:49:43 <Fiora> "find a group of #esoteric members whose weights sum to 350kg"
19:50:04 <shachaf> You mean their weighs?
19:50:05 <Gregor> I live in Indiana and weigh 15 tons.
19:50:18 <shachaf> Gregor: You left SF? :-(
19:50:24 <Gregor> shachaf: It was an internship.
19:50:32 <shachaf> I know.
19:50:34 <shachaf> But still.
19:50:45 <Fiora> gregor are you a tractor trailer
19:51:08 <Gregor> Fiora: I'm an American and I'm just BIG BONED.
19:51:23 <Fiora> gregor has neutronium bones
19:54:35 <shachaf> boily: So the expected value of 1d(1dX) is actually (X+3)/4, I guess.
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19:59:19 <boily> `relcome eitow
19:59:21 <HackEgo> eitow: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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19:59:40 <boily> Fiora: subset-summing #esoteric sounds like an interesting idea.
20:03:57 <boily> shachaf: I'm the kind of person to just wing this kind of problem into matlab/octave and brute force through multiple tries.
20:04:07 <boily> (I guess there's a reason I became an engineer)
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20:26:33 <Bike> Is there a fixed point of scheme eval that isn't a constant or self-referencing?
20:27:42 <fizzie> Is there a way to make PulseAudio do this thing I want it to do?
20:27:53 <Bike> what is this thing?
20:29:50 <kmc> "die in a fire"
20:30:07 <Bike> i guess bottom, if you count that
20:30:17 <fizzie> I have an USB soundcard where the volume control's dB levels (as seen by the ALSA driver) bear no resemblance to reality; in particular, it's completely muted up to a point, and then uncomfortably loud after that. It used to be so that I could just keep the card's mixer control fixed to that just-about-audible-and-loud, and compensate by lowering the per-app volumes (dynamic range is for ...
20:30:21 <shachaf> Bike: it's ""different"" in a strict language
20:30:24 <fizzie> ... wimps), but apparently modern Pulse merges the volume controls with a super-clever mechanism, where it takes the required adjustment and applies it... well, just read http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/PulseAudio/Documentation/User/PulseAudioStoleMyVolumes/
20:30:27 <Bike> shachaf: yeah i know
20:30:42 <shachaf> i know you know
20:30:50 <Bike> woa
20:31:13 <fizzie> It says that I can disable the cleverness by a "control=" parameter to module-alsa-sink, but I haven't figured out any sensible way to apply that, esp. automagically to a single device that comes and goes.
20:31:43 <fizzie> (And anyway I don't know if it would accept a "none" setting that'd make it not touch the wonky hardware volume control but just approximate with software.)
20:31:55 <kmc> pulse audio ate my balls
20:32:11 <fizzie> Maybe I should just go with JACK, but that's so "pro".
20:33:01 <fizzie> Also I don't have a real sound card. And all the JACK stuff is so Qt.
20:33:34 <fizzie> (Apparently the "standard" way to do persistent per-application setups in JACK is with QjackCtl Patchbay.)
20:33:35 <Bike> have you considered replacing your sound software with piping everything to /dev/snd
20:33:45 <fizzie> Not really.
20:33:47 <Bike> patchbay is pretty nice, actually.
20:33:50 <elliott> shachaf: _|_ is a fixed point of all functions in a strict language
20:34:15 <nooodl> Bike: there probably isn't one, if you don't count bottom
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20:34:50 <elliott> I'm not sure how Bike defines constant
20:35:01 <elliott> I might define constant as "something that evaluates to itself", which makes Bike's statement trivial
20:35:07 <elliott> anyway, you can write quines
20:35:13 <nooodl> anything that's "self-evaluating?"
20:35:15 <Bike> i meant not a cons or symbol.
20:35:28 <elliott> ((lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))) '(lambda (x) (list x (list 'quote x))))
20:35:36 <elliott> should evaluate to itself
20:35:51 <Bike> oh right.
20:35:59 <shachaf> > text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
20:36:00 <lambdabot> text$ap(++)show"text$ap(++)show"
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20:36:27 <shachaf> hi Taneb
20:36:34 <Bike> dumb question bike
20:36:44 <shachaf> Bike: that's p. mean
20:36:44 <Taneb> Hi shachaf
20:36:45 <nooodl> > ap(++)show"ap(++)show"
20:36:47 <lambdabot> "ap(++)show\"ap(++)show\""
20:37:00 <kmc> don't be mean to Bike
20:37:08 <shachaf> ==kmc
20:37:25 <kmc> i didn't think of quines either
20:38:14 <shachaf> that's the definition of a quine, isn't it
20:38:21 <shachaf> hmm i guess «5» is a quine
20:38:23 <shachaf> boring quine
20:38:44 <nooodl> (quote (quote (quote (quote ...)))) is cooler anyway
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20:41:39 <kmc> `relcome clog
20:41:41 <HackEgo> clog: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
20:42:19 <kmc> ««lambda «x» «list x «list 'quote x»»» '«lambda «x» «list x «list 'quote x»»»»
20:43:03 <shachaf> imo use “”
20:43:09 <shachaf> “best lisp”
20:43:10 <boily> imo use 「」.
20:43:47 <Bike> i thought of kiforget's theorem but forgot how to relevantly apply it
20:43:51 <boily> or, you could always use sha- and -chaf. htnqh.
20:44:13 <Bike> nooodl: oh that i was thinking about the other day actually
20:44:27 <Bike> rather, how different combinatory calculi would work with infinite strings
20:44:52 <Bike> ski of kkkkkkk... is itself, but with sss... i'm not sure, besides that the first letter is still s
20:45:12 <Bike> ````... is just bupkis, i dunno
20:45:13 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ```...: not found
20:45:22 <Bike> shame
20:47:09 <nooodl> is that s(s(s(s(...
20:47:22 <Bike> i ran it for a little while and then got bored
20:47:47 <nooodl> or ...(((ss)s)s)s
20:48:00 <Bike> kleen. why did i think it was klein? blugh
20:48:04 <Bike> kleene rather
20:49:12 <nooodl> ¿¿lambda ¿x? ¿list x ¿list 'quote x??? '¿lambda ¿x? ¿list x ¿list 'quote x????
20:49:49 <shachaf> > filter (\x -> generalCategory x == InitialQuote) ['\0'..]
20:49:50 <lambdabot> "\171\8216\8219\8220\8223\8249\11778\11780\11785\11788\11804\11808"
20:49:53 <shachaf> > text $ filter (\x -> generalCategory x == InitialQuote) ['\0'..]
20:49:55 <lambdabot> «‘‛“‟‹⸂⸄⸉⸌⸜
20:50:01 <kmc> ff
20:50:06 <shachaf> that does not look quite right.........................
20:50:08 <kmc> ~fffffffffffffffff
20:50:09 <metasepia> --- Possible commands: dice, duck, echo, eval, fortune, metar, ping, yi
20:50:16 <kmc> ~metar KSFO
20:50:16 <metasepia> KSFO 071956Z 23010G14KT 10SM FEW015 BKN022 19/11 A3011 RMK AO2 SLP195 T01940111
20:50:35 <Bike> nooodl: finally, a lisp with sensible beautiful syntax
20:50:47 <kmc> you mean javascript?
20:51:15 <nooodl> > length ['\0'..]
20:51:16 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds).
20:51:16 <lambdabot> 1114112
20:51:54 <Bike> kmc: it's just not a lisp if it doesn't have arbitrary criteria for inclusion, man
20:52:52 <kmc> inclusion-exclusion
20:53:17 <shachaf> inclusion-inclusion
20:53:21 <kmc> > logBase 2 $ length ['\0'..]
20:53:22 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Float.Floating GHC.Types.Int)
20:53:23 <lambdabot> arising from a use of...
20:53:32 <kmc> > logBase 2 . fromIntegral $ length ['\0'..]
20:53:34 <lambdabot> 20.08746284125034
20:53:40 <shachaf> imo call it 20
20:56:51 <kmc> utf-20.1
20:57:12 <nooodl> > reverse $ unfoldr (\x -> if x == 0 then Nothing else Just (mod x 2, div x 2)) (length ['\0'..])
20:57:13 <lambdabot> [1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0]
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20:58:05 <kmc> shachaf: you could fit 3 codepoints in a 64-bit word with enough bits left over to tag it as not a pointer
20:58:06 <shachaf> > binary # length ['\0'..]
20:58:07 <lambdabot> "100010000000000000000"
20:58:14 <Bike> utf-lg(1114112), computable reals are the future
20:58:17 <shachaf> kmc: Yep.
20:58:18 <augur> boily: what
20:58:26 <shachaf> kmc: I ported "text" to that encoding once.
20:58:31 <kmc> really
20:58:32 <shachaf> (Well, not the pointer tagging bit.)
20:59:00 <kmc> but UTF-21?
20:59:12 <nooodl> (#)??? is it just ($) or am i missing something
20:59:13 <augur> boily: if i give you that information, you can teleport me away, so no thank you :|
20:59:13 <shachaf> UCS-2.625 or whatever you might call it.
20:59:15 <kmc> how did it do...
20:59:16 <olsner> oh, it's this again
20:59:23 <shachaf> I didn't port everything but a lot of it.
20:59:41 <shachaf> kmc: There are various disadvantages, like not being able to (++) two strings with memcpy.
20:59:47 <Bike> :t (#)
20:59:49 <shachaf> (Unless you're lucky and the alignment matches.)
20:59:51 <lambdabot> AReview s t a b -> b -> t
21:00:05 <nooodl> :t binary
21:00:12 <shachaf> > "10101" ^? binary
21:00:15 <lambdabot> Just 21
21:00:45 <Bike> :t showIntAtBase
21:01:01 <elliott> remember when I added all the bases up to 16 but edwardk made me take them out :(
21:01:09 <nooodl> i'm going to murder everyone involved in lens hth
21:01:19 <elliott> :t binary
21:01:19 <shachaf> nooodl: Numeric.Lens is ion's fault hth
21:01:25 <Bike> what happen
21:01:26 <elliott> why is :t even more broken
21:01:29 <nooodl> (this solves the problem where i'm too lazy to learn about lens)
21:01:32 <nooodl> @type binary
21:01:40 <Bike> > help
21:01:41 <lambdabot> Not in scope: `help'
21:01:47 <Bike> cool
21:01:48 <nooodl> :t "help"
21:01:49 <lambdabot> [Char]
21:01:51 <nooodl> help
21:01:57 <Bike> :t binary
21:02:07 <Bike> wow this is a shitty bot.
21:03:57 -!- oerjan has joined.
21:04:56 <oerjan> > "hm"
21:04:57 <lambdabot> "hm"
21:05:00 <oerjan> :t binary
21:05:13 <oerjan> :t map
21:05:14 <lambdabot> (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
21:05:17 <Bike> the haunted value. unknowable. untypeable
21:05:22 <oerjan> wtf
21:05:40 <oerjan> > binary
21:05:41 <lambdabot> No instance for (Data.Profunctor.Choice p0)
21:05:41 <lambdabot> arising from a use of `e_1'
21:05:41 <lambdabot> ...
21:05:45 <oerjan> ooh
21:06:01 <elliott> I think the problem is the type is too long
21:06:04 <shachaf> Hmm, haven't we had that before?
21:06:04 <oerjan> ok so lens is so freaky it breaks :t ?
21:06:05 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:06:06 <lambdabot> a -> b -> c -> d -> e -> f -> g -> h -> i -> j -> k -> l -> m -> n -> o -> p -> q -> r -> s -> t -> u -> v -> w -> x -> y -> z -> t28 -> t29 -> t30 -> t31 -> t32 -> t33 -> t34 -> t35 -> t36 -> t37 ->
21:06:06 <lambdabot> t38 -> t39 -> t40 -> t41 -> t42 -> (a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, k, l, m, n, o, p, q, r, s, t, u, v, w, x, y, z, t28, t29, t30, t31, t32, t33, t34, t35, t36, t37, t38, t39, t40, t41, t42)
21:06:08 <shachaf> I remember a type like that.
21:06:13 <elliott> :t (,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,)
21:06:13 <lambdabot> A 77-tuple is too large for GHC
21:06:14 <lambdabot> (max size is 62)
21:06:14 <lambdabot> Workaround: use nested tuples or define a data type
21:06:17 <elliott> :'(
21:06:24 <comex> 62, really?
21:06:31 <Bike> the perfect number, imo.
21:06:46 <elliott> I don't know why it's 62
21:07:52 <ion> It’s a nice number in base-63.
21:07:53 <oerjan> the tuple types are defined explicitly in a module, istr a comment that something broke if they tried to expand it one step more.
21:09:03 <shachaf> long long long is too long for gcc
21:11:09 <olsner> sounds weird that a tuple breaks at that size but a data type of the same size is supposed to be ok (according to the error message's workaround)
21:11:47 <oerjan> grmbl changing Data-Tuple to GHC-Tuple in the platform doc url doesn't lead to the source
21:12:50 <shachaf> oerjan: that's becuase it's in ghc-prim hth
21:14:01 <oerjan> shachaf: that's really no excuse for making it hard to find the real source of something
21:14:05 <shachaf> oerjan: https://github.com/ghc/packages-ghc-prim/blob/master/GHC/Tuple.hs hth
21:14:12 <shachaf> {- Manuel says: Including one more declaration gives a segmentation fault.
21:15:17 <oerjan> that sounds like what i recall
21:15:22 <ion> From now on, all comments i add to any code will begin with “ion says:”
21:15:26 <Bike> why does it say it's "Experimental"
21:15:39 <elliott> tuples aren't ready for the prime time, Bike
21:15:58 <olsner> ion: I'll make my comments "shachaf says: ... hth"
21:16:04 <Bike> i mean it says copyriht 2001 and then that it's experimental
21:16:15 <oerjan> Bike: presumably that you cannot rely on the API not changing at any time?
21:16:19 <shachaf> ion: that only works for simon
21:16:20 <olsner> it's a long-running experiment
21:16:31 <Bike> wow this s some really awesome code
21:17:09 <boily> augur: but, but... please *kitten-like eyes with glitter and sparkles and tears*
21:17:12 <oerjan> shachaf: ...now i'm imaging ghc source full of "simon says:"
21:17:24 <oerjan> *imagining
21:17:34 -!- constant has changed nick to variable.
21:17:37 <shachaf> oerjan: then i have succeeded hth
21:17:54 <Bike> oerjan: but the api is just, like. tuples
21:18:00 <augur> boily: who are you even :|
21:18:13 <ion> > length "(,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"
21:18:14 <lambdabot> 100
21:18:20 <boily> augur: some random canadian, with a small collectiön of coördinates and weighs.
21:18:38 <Fiora> he's trying to stalk everyone :<
21:18:39 <ion> You accidentally the ẗ
21:18:42 <shachaf> boily: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/18249218/?i=6&from=/18271693/related
21:18:47 <shachaf> oh, wait
21:18:58 <shachaf> boily: just look at the <title>
21:19:03 <boily> ion: I usually ¨ the #̈.
21:19:04 <shachaf> imo relevant to this channel
21:19:16 <boily> shachaf: heresy.
21:19:20 <Bike> i considered bringing up lipid polymorphism here yesterday
21:19:22 <Bike> but then i didn't
21:19:28 <shachaf> <title>RGS2 C1114G polymorphism and body weigh - PubMed Mobile</title>
21:19:33 <boily> oh!
21:19:37 <boily> the <title>.
21:21:06 <ion> Real Fast Nora’s RGS2 C1114G polymorphism and body weight gain download
21:21:34 <boily> Fiora: and no, I'm not a stalker. even if my SO says so, I'm not a stalker.
21:21:41 <Fiora> <.<
21:22:39 <shachaf> ion: s/t gain// hth
21:22:53 <ion> shachaf: thanks hand
21:26:14 <shachaf> boily: What's *my* body weigh?
21:26:38 <ion> yo momma so fat they had to adjust G for her
21:27:51 <boily> shachaf: I still have no entry for you rebarbative rapscallion.
21:28:50 <Bike> Fiora: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Phospholipids_aqueous_solution_structures.svg btw amphiphily
21:29:10 <boily> ~duck amphiphily
21:29:10 <metasepia> --- No relevant information
21:29:51 <Bike> ~duck amphiphile
21:29:51 <metasepia> Amphiphile (from the Greek ƹ, amphis: both and ƹ, philia: love, friendship) is a term describing a chemical compound possessing both hydrophilic (water-loving, polar) and lipophilic (fat-loving) properties.
21:30:34 <ion> I thought the Greek alphabet looked slightly different.
21:31:08 <boily> ion: you didn't see nothing unusual there. it's only an optical illusion caused by disturbances in the ionosphere.
21:31:30 * boily does hypnotic handwaves towards ion
21:32:28 <Bike> ~duck amphiphile
21:32:29 <metasepia> Amphiphile (from the Greek ƹ, amphis: both and ƹ, philia: love, friendship) is a term describing a chemical compound possessing both hydrophilic (water-loving, polar) and lipophilic (fat-loving) properties.
21:32:44 <Bike> weird lookin reekg
21:36:09 <boily> the reekg is fine, I say!
21:37:06 <oerjan> Bike: i smell double utf-8 encoding
21:39:26 <oerjan> `run echo ±¼Æ¹Â | iconv -f utf-8 -t latin1
21:39:28 <HackEgo> ​ƹ
21:39:31 <oerjan> eek
21:40:18 -!- |_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:40:42 <oerjan> or maybe not.
21:41:51 <oerjan> `run echo ±¼Æ¹Â | iconv -f utf-8 -t latin1 | iconv -f latin7 -t utf-8
21:41:53 <HackEgo> ​±¼Ę¹Ā
21:41:57 <boily> it's like a monad. you can return, you can join, but you can't get away from it.
21:42:01 <oerjan> ff
21:42:11 <nortti> still remember draLinux? I actually did it http://norttimc.dy.fi/~nortti/dralinux/
21:42:17 -!- |_ has joined.
21:42:43 <oerjan> `ord ±¼Æ¹Â
21:42:45 <HackEgo> 177 188 198 185 194
21:43:10 <oerjan> ^ord ±¼Æ¹Â
21:43:10 <fungot> 194 177 194 188 195 134 194 185 195 130
21:43:25 <boily> sounds like an iso-8859-some-random-number problem.
21:43:33 <elliott> is norttimc like kmc
21:43:41 <boily> ~eval map ord "±¼Æ¹Â"
21:43:43 <metasepia> Error (1):
21:43:44 <boily> ~eval map ord "±¼Æ¹Â"
21:43:46 <metasepia> [177,188,198,185,194]
21:43:51 <elliott> also is this website hosted on your dumpster computer. is that why it isn't loading
21:44:36 <nortti> it is
21:44:40 <oerjan> funny thing, 177 is ± in latin7 as well...
21:45:17 <nortti> also, it should load, just slowly
21:45:20 <oerjan> `ord α
21:45:22 <HackEgo> 945
21:45:30 <oerjan> ^ord α
21:45:30 <fungot> 206 177
21:45:34 <oerjan> aha!
21:45:48 <boily> `ord ハ
21:45:49 <HackEgo> 12495
21:45:55 <boily> `ord 八
21:45:57 <HackEgo> 20843
21:46:17 <elliott> it loaded
21:46:22 <elliott> the miracle of dumpster computers
21:46:44 <oerjan> ^chr 206
21:46:44 <fungot>
21:47:04 <oerjan> `run echo α¼Æ¹Â | iconv -f utf-8 -t latin1
21:47:05 <HackEgo> ​αƹ
21:47:11 <oerjan> ...nope.
21:48:05 <nortti> actually, most of the problem is caused by the shit router/modem/wifi access point/firewall
21:48:23 <olsner> `run echo α¼Æ¹Â | iconv -f utf-8 -t greek1
21:48:25 <HackEgo> iconv: conversion to `greek1' is not supported \ Try `iconv --help' or `iconv --usage' for more information.
21:49:12 <nortti> 64 bytes from icmp_req=173 ttl=47 time=12193 ms
21:49:25 <oerjan> olsner: latin7 is supposed to be greek, but looking at the wikipedia table the chars don't fit amphi at all
21:49:32 <comex> `uname -a
21:49:33 <HackEgo> Linux umlbox 3.7.0-umlbox #1 Wed Feb 13 23:30:40 UTC 2013 x86_64 GNU/Linux
21:49:43 <oerjan> α
21:49:46 <oerjan> argh
21:49:58 <oerjan> bloody newline-include paste
21:50:03 <oerjan> *ing
21:52:09 <oerjan> `ord αμφις
21:52:10 <HackEgo> 945 956 966 953 962
21:53:28 <oerjan> ^ord αμφις
21:53:28 <fungot> 206 177 206 188 207 134 206 185 207 130
21:53:41 <oerjan> `ord ±¼Æ¹Â
21:53:43 <HackEgo> 177 188 198 185 194
21:54:23 <oerjan> ok whatever encoding it is happens to use the same as what follows 206 in utf-8 when that fits
21:55:40 -!- kallisti has joined.
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21:55:40 -!- kallisti has joined.
21:56:32 <oerjan> also, the original ~duck is just the first sentence from the wikipedia article.
21:58:15 <oerjan> oh hm maybe...
21:58:54 <oerjan> > [ord c `mod` 256 | c <- "αμφις"]
21:58:55 <lambdabot> [177,188,198,185,194]
21:59:32 <boily> oerjan: well, duck duck go sometimes pick stuff from wikipedia, and that gets forwarded to my delicious bot.
22:00:07 -!- kallisti has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
22:00:31 <oerjan> boily: i think the problem is with your bot. you are not giving utf-8 output but instead printing unicode characters modulo 256.
22:00:47 <oerjan> *unicode codepoints
22:01:08 <oerjan> which i think used to be the ghc default at one point
22:01:12 <boily> I... uhm... may be having some Char8 problems...
22:01:29 <oerjan> figures.
22:01:33 <boily> it was compiler with 7.4 many myriaseconds ago.
22:01:45 <boily> s/er/ed/
22:02:28 <oerjan> that should be after the ghc IO change. although Char8 would also do this. i think using Text instead of ByteString.Char8 may be recommended?
22:02:51 <boily> indeed. my imports from ByteString are Char8y.
22:03:03 * oerjan has never done anything sophisticated enough to bother going beyond String himself.
22:03:05 <boily> should have known better...
22:03:40 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
22:04:34 <oerjan> although there's the problem that irc input is not required to be utf-8 either.
22:06:00 <oerjan> and sometimes people are using latin1 / cp1252
22:06:20 <oerjan> (the latter is somewhat recommended fallback when input is not utf-8
22:06:21 <oerjan> )
22:06:48 <boily> what do you know, there's a NYer article on the Majestic̈ Diæresis̈: http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/culture/2012/04/the-curse-of-the-diaeresis.html
22:07:27 <boily> cp1252 is mean, nasty, and will swap your toothpaste tubes for cherry-flavoured ones.
22:10:45 <oerjan> "She said that once, in the elevator, he told her he was on the verge of changing that style and would be sending out a memo soon. And then he died."
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22:15:20 <boily> ~duck verge
22:15:20 <metasepia> verge definition: a rod or staff carried as an emblem of authority or symbol of office.
22:16:19 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Keëper of the Authöritarian Stäff of the Endlëss Diæ̈resis).
22:16:30 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
22:17:49 <oerjan> i think boily messed up the last one hth
22:18:31 <ion> in what way? hand
22:23:03 <olsner> messed it all the way up from hand to hand
22:24:00 <olsner> fungot: in what way hand ?
22:24:00 <fungot> olsner: they say that naturally a wand of polymorph.
22:25:58 <oerjan> @tell Bike sssssss... = ss(ss)sss... = ss(sss)ss... = ss(ssss)s... = ss(sssss)... something tells me this doesn't converge.
22:25:58 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
22:26:46 <oerjan> ion: clearly he didn't mean to use "Diæ̈resis" hth
22:26:56 <elliott> oerjan: ssssss... = ss(sssssss...)?
22:28:49 <ion> oerjan: True, he should have used æ̷̈
22:28:59 <oerjan> elliott: now describe the topology in which that converges twh
22:29:34 <oerjan> `ord æ̷̈
22:29:36 <HackEgo> 230 776 823
22:29:37 <elliott> oerjan: no, clearly we just need to figure out a fixed point of SS :)
22:29:53 <oerjan> `ord æ̈
22:29:54 <HackEgo> 230 776
22:30:26 <oerjan> elliott: eek
22:31:50 <elliott> SSy = \z. Sz(yz) = \z a. Sz(yz)a = \z a. za(yza)
22:32:14 <elliott> so need an x such that x = \y z. yz(xyz)
22:35:13 <shachaf> That sounds like one of Smullyan's puzzles.
22:35:43 <elliott> that is, \y z. xyz = \y z. yz(xyz)
22:35:50 <elliott> that is, xyz = yz(xyz) for all y and z
22:36:17 <elliott> that looks easy enough to do with a fixed point combinator.
22:36:50 <elliott> x_solution = fix (\r y z -> y z r)
22:36:51 <shachaf> ...I just lost my Chromium tabs...
22:37:13 <shachaf> You know how it crashes and you get that button to Restore your old session?
22:37:38 <fizzie> Should've used a Mozilla product hth
22:38:29 <shachaf> Mozilla products seem to handle it worse in my experience.
22:39:34 <shachaf> This was two windows full of tabs which I have no idea how to find again.
22:39:36 <kmc> Servo handles this much better imo
22:39:37 <shachaf> Is it just lost?
22:39:52 <kmc> 1) no tabs 2) often crashes before you get the chance to create state that would be lost
22:40:12 <kmc> 3) always crashes on exit
22:40:26 <ion> shachaf: Look at your latest backup.
22:41:11 <elliott> kmc: (1) sounds good for my browsing habits
22:41:30 <ion> (I have sometimes restored Firefox session.js or whatsitsname from my backups.)
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22:49:48 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg).
23:00:32 <kmc> error: cannot infer an appropriate lifetime due to conflicting requirements
23:00:42 <kmc> that's fairly poëtic as compiler errors go
23:02:38 <shachaf> kmc: are lifetimes ever uninferrable?
23:02:59 <kmc> apparently
23:03:01 <Fiora> that almost sounds like an ~ATH error
23:03:13 <kmc> but yeah there are lots of places where you're expected to write explicit lifetime variables
23:03:15 -!- ineiros has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:03:21 <kmc> what`s ~ATH?
23:03:30 <Fiora> http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/~ATH
23:03:39 <Fiora> it's an esolang
23:04:49 <Fiora> built around performing actions based on lifetimes of objects :3
23:05:51 <kmc> i....
23:06:37 <kmc> .........................
23:10:20 <Fiora> did did I do something wrong
23:19:58 <Fiora> kmc
23:21:40 <elliott> I think he's dead. rip.
23:21:46 <shachaf> rip
23:22:10 <shachaf> Fiora: (p. sure you didn't do anything wrong)
23:22:57 <ion> rip / hand depending on the what the “death” wave function collapses to.
23:23:24 <Fiora> .__.
23:23:27 <Fiora> but I liked him
23:23:31 -!- nooodl^ has joined.
23:23:44 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v kmc.
23:23:55 <elliott> his + is gone ;_;
23:24:07 <shachaf> unhand me, gentlemen
23:24:39 * ion unhands shachaf, hth
23:25:44 <Bike> i described servo as something that was seemed real cool todday
23:25:56 * Fiora hugs kmc?
23:26:01 <Bike> also "i'd use it if it wasn't basically a pile of rocks right now", you can put that on the back
23:26:05 <shachaf> Bike: did you know the axiom of choice is equivalent to "every surjective function has a right inverse"
23:26:20 <Bike> oerjan: sure if you're a coward
23:26:32 <shachaf> help
23:26:42 <shachaf> oh
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23:26:44 <elliott> shachaf: http://r6.ca/blog/20050604T143800Z.html
23:27:21 <Bike> shachaf: makes sense
23:27:32 <shachaf> elliott: i like the data: url
23:28:09 -!- Sgeo has joined.
23:28:10 <ion> We could replace all URLs with data: ones and soon we wouldn’t need web servers at all anymore!
23:28:42 -!- conehead has joined.
23:29:43 <shachaf> elliott: he should fix his font imo. it's impossible to see the colons
23:30:03 <ion> My font displays them just fine.
23:30:47 <shachaf> anyway, hm
23:31:43 <ion> I like the mailto:%72%2e%6f%63%6f%6e%6e%6f%72%40%63%73%2e%72%75%2e%6e%6c, because no spammer spider would ever be able to decode that.
23:31:48 <shachaf> elliott: the link at the bottom is broken :'(
23:32:11 <kmc> not dead
23:32:21 <kmc> status: not dead, not drinking scotch out of a MongoDB mug
23:32:30 <ion> i.e. drugz
23:32:34 <kmc> I was just stupified by ~ATH
23:32:36 <kmc> in a good way
23:32:44 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v kmc.
23:33:01 <elliott> my official ruling is that Fiora killed kmc but MongoDB scotch revived him
23:33:37 <ion> elliott: I’m p. sure drugz were also related to the case. hth, hand
23:33:41 <kmc> i said *not*
23:34:23 <elliott> being not dead doesn't imply you never were dead
23:34:39 <shachaf> imo hugz kmc to life
23:35:07 <Bike> check_this_shit_out
23:35:20 <shachaf> kmc: next time you die call me and i can hugz you back to life hth
23:37:51 <shachaf> is "simplicial complex" really a thing :'(
23:38:01 <Fiora> kmc: you liked it...?
23:38:31 <Bike> isn't it "simplicial" like a simplex
23:39:13 <shachaf> yes
23:39:56 <kmc> i found it confusing in a pleasing way
23:40:07 <kmc> like this channel but more so
23:40:56 <elliott> `addquote <+kmc> i found it confusing in a pleasing way <+kmc> like this channel but more so
23:41:00 <HackEgo> 1083) <+kmc> i found it confusing in a pleasing way <+kmc> like this channel but more so
23:43:53 <Fiora> kmc: http://mspaintadventures.wikia.com/wiki/Programming_languages okay, have more punny programming language names then
23:44:09 <Fiora> DIS* (disaster risk / dis asterisk)
23:44:15 <Fiora> ^CAKE (terrible)
23:48:36 <Bike> http://blog.chembark.com/2013/08/06/a-disturbing-note-in-a-recent-si-file/ "whoops"
23:50:10 <ion> nice
23:50:16 <Fiora> #overlyhonestmethods? <.<
23:50:40 <yorick> ah, that reminds me of my high school years :D
23:51:06 -!- iamfishhead has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
23:52:15 <Bike> #overlyhonestcompletefraud
23:52:48 <kmc> https://github.com/mozilla/rust/blob/master/src/libstd/hashmap.rs#L768-L770 ꙮ_ꙮ
23:53:16 <oerjan> <Bike> oerjan: sure if you're a coward <-- wat
23:53:50 <Bike> «She claimed that a company named “Duha Chemisches Katalyse-Labor” (a.k.a. “Duha”) successfully reproduced her work. An official at the company named Ralf Decter sent Columbia an electronic message to verify Sezen’s claim. The problem…the IP address of the computer that sent the message traced to the University of Heidelberg (where Sezen was studying in 2006)» reading about fraud is great
23:54:07 <shachaf> oerjan: is it a thing about ss(ssss......ssss)sss?
23:55:09 <kmc> madrigal electromotive
23:57:35 <Bike> "Sezen claimed that purchase requisitions did not exist for many of her combustion analyses because she obtained them in free trials."
23:57:45 <shachaf> λ> (unsafeCoerce (-5 :: Int8) :: Word8)
23:57:45 <shachaf> -5
23:57:50 <shachaf> That wasn't what I'd hoped for.
23:58:39 <kmc> :O
23:58:46 <elliott> wow, what
23:58:46 <yorick> shachaf: what were you expecting?
23:59:36 <shachaf> Maybe 251?
23:59:50 <yorick> words are unsigned?
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