00:09:42 -!- Koen__ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 00:12:23 `run cd wisdom; ls -1 | grep '[:upper:]' 00:12:25 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try `pastewisdom instead. 00:12:29 oops 00:12:36 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | grep '[:upper:]' 00:12:38 america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bigcharà \ bike \ bird \ bonvenon \ botlop \ braid theory \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ cakeprophet \ california \ caps lock \ category \ category-helpdesk \ category theory \ cello \ certainly \ certainty \ chess \ claustrophobia \ cocoonspirator \ coffe 00:12:49 O_O 00:13:07 there is weird, and there is broken. this is broken. 00:14:45 I am annoyed that oerjan has decided to annoy people 00:14:47 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG= grep '[:upper:]' 00:14:49 america \ atriq \ atrix \ augur \ banach-tarski \ bicategory \ bienvenue \ bigcharà \ bike \ bird \ bonvenon \ botlop \ braid theory \ brain \ brainf**k \ brainfuck \ brick \ burma \ cakeprophet \ california \ caps lock \ category \ category-helpdesk \ category theory \ cello \ certainly \ certainty \ chess \ claustrophobia \ cocoonspirator \ coffe 00:14:55 WHAT 00:14:57 -!- ^v has changed nick to ^onrv. 00:15:17 -!- ^onrv has changed nick to ^v. 00:15:22 `run ls /bin | grep '[[:upper:]]' 00:15:23 Jafet: i have no idea why this prints those lines 00:15:23 No output. 00:16:03 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG=C grep '[A-Z]' 00:16:05 Roujo's relevant info \ wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 00:18:53 `run mv wisdom/{R,r}"oujo's relevant info" 00:18:56 No output. 00:19:02 `run cd wisdom; /bin/ls -1 | LANG=C grep '[A-Z]' 00:19:04 wisisis "This isn't an actual wisdom, just a tribute." 00:19:38 Jafet: it's not my fault that grep with a locale completely ignores the intended meaning of [:upper:] 00:20:32 `run echo TEST | grep '[[:upper:]]' 00:20:34 TEST 00:20:38 `run echo TEST | grep '[[:lower:]]' 00:20:39 No output. 00:20:48 I can't hear you 00:20:57 oh darn 00:21:41 * oerjan swats himself -----### 00:29:09 I have read somewhere of "Rochester poker", where you make a poker hand like you draft cards in Magic: the Gathering. 00:29:19 `? banach-tarski 00:29:21 ​"Banach-Tarski" is an anagram of "Banach-Tarski Banach-Tarski". 00:29:26 ... 00:29:30 I don't know what I expected 00:29:47 Roujo: I have seen that joke before, in some book 00:30:02 `? ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 00:30:03 ​ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 00:30:04 | 00:30:04 o/`¯º 00:30:44 `? myndzi 00:30:46 myndzi keeps us all on our feet 00:30:47 `run echo ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ Your dongers. Raise them. ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ > wisdom/ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ 00:30:50 No output. 00:31:17 I'm impressed at the amount of characters filenames can take 00:34:05 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:37:36 @wn donger 00:37:37 No match for "donger". 00:37:49 ~duck donger 00:38:19 I think in "native" UNIX filesystems you can have any byte except 0x00 or 0x2F ('/') and it doesn't much care what encoding they conform to, either 00:38:25 hm cephalopod shortage 00:39:51 kmc, but presumably there are UTF-8 characters encoded with a 0x2f? 00:40:06 No. 00:40:09 0x2f is only used to encode the character 0x2f 00:40:20 the codepoint 00:40:48 UTF-8 follows the Principle of Extended ASCII, so it means all ASCII codes always correspond to themself. 00:41:15 endocorrespondence 00:41:51 such is the genius of the prophet ken thompson 00:42:45 Some programs using UTF-8 fail to follow the Principle of Extended ASCII, however. 00:45:40 oh, duh 01:24:43 `addquote my contract states right here that I have to tell you the best version of python is called haskell 2010 01:24:47 1100) my contract states right here that I have to tell you the best version of python is called haskell 2010 01:25:22 Don't confuse Python with Haskell. 01:25:44 zzo38: it's not confusion it's a joke 01:26:22 Yes, it is a joke, you may not be confusing things, but you still shouldn't confuse it (regardless of whether or not you do). 01:35:38 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 01:36:04 -!- Nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:43:15 `slist if you haven't seen the one from a few hours ago 01:43:17 slist if you haven't seen the one from a few hours ago: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 01:46:11 -!- mad has joined. 01:46:14 sup 01:46:24 n 01:47:02 it's so hard to come up with an architecture that's simple and efficient 01:47:11 and not just end up with another MIPS clone 01:47:27 that's why they pay people big bux for doing so, i guess! 01:47:28 mad: It does seems so. 01:47:39 I've ended up with 01:47:42 mov add sub cmp ucp mul 01:47:42 and or xor lsr lsl asr 01:47:42 ld ldh ldb lds ldc st sth stb 01:47:42 jz jnz jp jl jr sys 01:47:54 OK, now describe it 01:48:14 all instructions are opcode rd, rx, ry/#immediate 01:48:19 except jumps 01:48:26 where rd = destination register 01:48:32 rx = source register 1 01:48:53 ry/#immediate = source 2 is either a register, or an immediate 01:48:57 OK 01:49:12 What are the registers, then? What are the other features? 01:49:39 registers are... r0..r15 or r0..r31, haven't decided on 16 vs 32 yet 01:50:01 Also describe exact function of instructions. 01:50:29 mov add sub mul and or xor lsr lsl asr are exactly what you'd expect 01:50:39 OK, that is expected. 01:51:07 What are others, though? 01:51:44 cmp does a signed comparison between two registers and writes 0 if rx is smaller than ry, and... -1 if it's larger (or it could be 1, I'm not sure which is better, MIPS goes for 1) 01:52:04 ucp is the same thing but with unsigned comparison 01:52:09 OK 01:52:55 ld is 32 bit load, source #2 is shifted 2 bits left and added to source #1 and then the aligned data at that address is loaded 01:53:27 Both using -1 and using +1 can be useful for different reasons (for C compiling, you should use +1; for BASIC, you should use -1; Forth tends to use -1 too) 01:53:38 ldh lds are 16bit, unsigned and signed, source #2 is shifted 1 bit 01:54:05 OK 01:54:06 ldb ldc are 8bit, unsigned and signed, source #2 isn't shifted 01:54:36 st sth stb are stores (32bit, 16bit, 8bit respectively, source #2 is shifted the right amount of bits) 01:54:52 Is it source #2 which is signed? 01:55:05 no it's the data loaded from memory 01:55:16 O, OK. 01:55:22 So it is sign extended. 01:55:28 yes of course 01:56:11 jz checks if a register is 0, and jumps to an immediate offset if yes (signed offset relative to the instruction) 01:56:25 jnz is same but for register != 0 01:56:49 OK 01:56:54 jp is same but always jumps (and might have a larger immediate but is still relative to PC) 01:57:41 jl is the same but it writes the value of the PC to a register (probably r14 or r30, ARM uses r13) 01:58:00 jr jumps to the memory address in a register 01:58:18 so returning from a function is effectively jr r14 01:58:38 If the PC is also one of the registers, do you need jr instruction? 01:58:51 PC is not a named register 01:59:06 not orthogonal enough 01:59:21 ARM had that (PC = r15) and regretted it 01:59:50 I do suppose having the number for PC register can be messing up caching 02:00:18 irl on a typical pipeline the PC will be at least a couple cycles off 02:00:47 and once the design becomes superscalar with branch prediction the relationship becomes even crazier 02:00:52 not worth it 02:00:53 I think explicit pipelining and caching should be better though 02:01:06 zzo38: I didn't peg you for a fan of Itanic. 02:01:37 explicit pipelining sounds like a bad plan to me but I'm not familiar with the concept 02:02:47 how do you explicit pipeline a cpu anyways 02:02:50 I think not implementing it at all would be better than having it automatic 02:05:12 the thing with the PC is that it lives in a completely different part of the pipeline 02:05:50 and also it needs its own read/write ports 02:05:57 One thing that might be done is having a microcode memory partially ROM and partially RAM, and then your program is running in there (there can be more than one microcode core, for parallel execution of some instructions), which can use the data RAM in the microcode for caching; you can then which which microcode memory spaces are address and data. 02:06:10 (I mean which are program and data) 02:06:44 I'm pretty sure you gain nothing from conflating the PC with the other registers 02:07:05 Therefore it is not quite harvard, because you can swap the program with the data 02:07:15 hm 02:07:38 I'd definitively keep instruction cache and microcode separate 02:07:52 and data cache too 02:08:00 mad: Except when you're dealing in emulation. Then the PC is best considered another register. 02:08:16 pikhq: true 02:08:18 Of course, nobody designs ISAs around emulators. :) 02:08:24 well 02:08:32 pikhq: Except for Z-machine 02:08:33 for emulators I'd still keep the PC separate 02:08:47 actually for emulators I'd go for total hardvard architecture 02:08:52 zzo38: I mean "CPU ISAs" obviously. 02:09:01 pikhq: Yes 02:09:16 zzo38: Obviously VMs are designed all the time. :) 02:09:19 and probably even separate the return address stack from everything else 02:09:35 mad: Hmm. True, this would make some aspects a lot simpler. 02:10:12 Namely, any sort of optimization of the VM beyond naive intepretation. 02:10:19 also I'd remove the "register jump" and replace it with "indirect jump with a look up table" or something like that 02:10:28 so that all the jumps can be easily retargetted 02:10:50 to make sure you can relatively easy JIT recompile your code 02:10:54 so that it runs fast 02:10:57 anyways 02:11:18 You can get fairly impressive performance from an interpreter if you're quite careful in its design. 02:11:49 Well, I think Z-machine is well designed (that is, the one Infocom designed) 02:11:50 "you get 7 registers" "why" "cause that's how many fits in the x86 recompiled code" 02:12:32 The secret is to have an indirect jump at the end of each instruction's code so the branch predictor doesn't do literally 100% misprediction. 02:12:48 Still mispredicts a lot, obviously, but hey. 02:13:08 actually it might be possible to shuffle the stack pointer around in some less important register and get 8 registers 02:13:28 pikhq : oh that's a nice idea actually 02:13:41 I've done it. It helps quite a bit. 02:13:46 kinda wondering how to get msvc to compile that kind of code 02:13:59 Ah, the answer there is "don't". 02:14:13 Or, alternately, have a switch statement in a macro. :) 02:14:53 yeah I have to check if MSVC compiles it to multiple return statements or a single one 02:15:44 Also, re: x86 registers. Though inconvenient you could honestly use the floating point register stack for a few more registers. 02:16:15 I'm not sure that would be any faster than just using memory for the overflow registers 02:16:34 Keep in mind that you can actually do integer arithmetic with those registers. 02:16:58 I'm not sure there's any opcodes for transferring data to/from normal registrers to FPU ones 02:17:12 though there are some for MMX registers and SSE ones I think 02:18:00 anyhow 02:18:30 for a CPU with dynamic microcode, you really want the microcode to be in a separate bank than instruction and data cache 02:19:00 otherwise you have to share your access ports between the microcode and data cache 02:19:18 which divides your throughput and increases the width of your multiplexers 02:19:22 so it's like double bad 02:21:02 I'm not sure it's possible to design a fast cpu with dynamic microcode either 02:21:18 Doesn't seem there's an instruction for transferring to/from normal registers, no. 02:21:36 mad: Well, it isn't fast if the program isn't written in microcodes. 02:21:41 Just to memory. 02:21:53 I don't know; I still want to simplify it by having the microcode being the only cache (there can still be a separate program and data cache, and you can switch which one is program and which one is data) 02:23:16 Probably simplest to just go via MMX. 02:23:17 you're not simplifying it 02:23:26 if you make it the same as some other thing 02:23:49 because if you make them separate, then you can simply make everything read 1 data on every cycle 02:23:53 The program cache I mean is only the microcode program cache though 02:23:55 1 instruction per cycle 02:24:06 1 memory read per cycle 02:24:15 1 microcode access per cycle 02:24:35 if you conflate, say, the data cache and microcode cache 02:24:53 then you have to decide on each cycle who gets to read from it 02:25:11 That isn't what I am doing, as I am specifying 02:26:45 you mean like the instruction cache contains microcode instead of instructions? 02:26:55 Yes. 02:29:33 that's actually not a bad idea 02:29:39 pentium 4 did that 02:29:42 The microcode ROM would load the rest of the microcode program from the external ROM and then switch to the other bank. 02:30:24 A microcode program would then be unable to modify itself directly; you would have to load a program into the other bank which modifies this one, instead. 02:31:01 (This is also the only way for the microcode program to read itself) 02:32:13 I don't know if any computer does this, but I like it 02:32:37 you have to look up on how the pentium 4 did its trace cache 02:34:33 and how the crusoe did its crazy stuff 02:38:06 What similarities and differences is there from what I wrote about? 02:38:49 the crusoe is some kind of VLIW with 128bit opcodes 02:39:02 but the first thing it does is load up some x86 emulator 02:39:34 then it dynamically translates x86 code into its VLIW instruction set as it goes along 02:39:45 you never get access to the VLIW core 02:40:18 <^v> i am sooooo ||ed 02:40:55 it reserves something like 512k for the VLIW operation 02:41:16 and it has all sorts of insane stuff to keep the emulation running smooth 02:41:35 like explicit memory anti-aliasing instructions 02:42:26 the pentium 4 is a lot more sane 02:47:17 But do any have the only cache being microcode cache, there are two of them and you can switch between which is program and which is data? 02:47:38 no 02:49:00 Then make such thing 02:49:02 being able to switch would add extra multiplexers in the cpu 02:49:05 and make it slower 02:49:27 also, switching would probably require a pipeline flush 02:50:09 Yes, I can understand those things 02:51:15 Although I was thinking of not even having a pipeline, and furthermore the user program is written in microcodes therefore it isn't as slow 02:51:38 `slist 02:51:39 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 02:52:10 Any pipeline it does have is explicitly programmed using multi cores; there would be no implicit pipelining 02:54:25 the general problem with explicit pipelining is that it's very hard to process a clean interrupt on that 02:55:02 afaik you have to freeze everything and then empty all the multiple cycle versions of everything 02:55:58 Sgeo: gamzee 02:57:34 MIPS etc had these problems 02:57:41 like on branch delay slots 02:58:35 Branch delay slots. Sigh. 02:58:39 Such a wonky idea. 02:58:41 and I think the first few MIPS had some bugs on when interrupts happened on the same cycle as branches 02:59:20 pikhq : it's sorta worth it when you're at 1 instruction per cycle and you don't have a branch target buffer 02:59:36 Just ignore that stuff and you instead implement it in the user program. 02:59:42 but then when you become superscalar with a branch predictor you regret it 03:00:17 MIPS is mostly an embedded CPU nowadays so it might have been good for them overall 03:01:19 Don't add superscalar, branch prediction, and all that stuff; implement static prediction in the parts of the user program which are written in microcodes. 03:02:07 You can also implement the other things using that, and using multi core microcodes (they do not all have to be equivalent cores) 03:02:18 hm 03:02:43 on a design like that you're probably better of handling interrupts on a separate CPU 03:03:09 when an interrupt happens, completely freeze the larger configurable core 03:03:35 have a smaller specialized core correctly save/restore the state and handle interrupts 03:03:50 -!- azaq23 has joined. 03:03:53 Yes, you could do that 03:05:06 It might work 03:06:00 what sort of code do you want to run? 03:06:35 Can you be more specific? 03:07:31 do you want to emulate existing cpus or do fast number crunching or run straight C++ code with memory ops and jumps all over the place? 03:07:57 Run a code which is programmed specificly for this CPU 03:08:21 Programmed using microcodes that do what is helpful 03:08:35 hm 03:08:44 so assembly code? 03:08:49 Yes 03:08:57 doing what sort of processing? 03:09:10 what if we, like, used different CPUs for different kinds of programs,,, and, like, made it all super fast, man...................... 03:09:13 I don't know entirely, but there are a few different kinds I was thinking of 03:09:27 Bike: You shouldn't have too many though 03:09:31 Bike: Well, if we could manage gigahertz FPGAs... :) 03:10:27 i just want a computer made of acids :( 03:10:35 if you could 8 way superscalar execute MIPS code I'd be pretty impressed :o 03:10:35 One think I think of involves emulating 6502 or the old x86, other thing that could be done is Z-machine, you could also do mathematical things, possibly physics, graphics, audio, there are many things to do. Some kinds of things do not have to be as fast as other things, though. 03:11:24 6502 is like impossible to optimize 03:11:34 You can see, therefore, that some things don't have to be so fast as other things, just because of the kind of programs 03:12:06 mad: Yes I know that, but it wouldn't have to be as fast as other things anyways 03:12:17 or a neuromorphic machine, partly because "neurmorphic" sounds too cool to be real 03:12:26 yeah but that's why I'm asking what's your heavyest usage element 03:12:48 the parts that can be slow aren't really important and can be implemented any way 03:13:10 like if you start with a boring old MIPS it does ok at pretty much all of those things 03:13:23 (ok with an FPU for code that uses that) 03:14:29 (or maybe with some MAC/SIMD opcodes for sound processing instead) 03:14:35 like 03:14:44 you have to know what's the limiting factor 03:15:03 what's going to make a difference 03:15:39 I mean that you can simplify it and not implement a lot of things in hardware; implement most of in user microcodes, and then the microcodes can be designed so that things that are really complicated will run fast. 03:16:23 you can't really simplify a MIPS 03:17:41 a single issue MIPS is like a 2 port 32 register file wired more or less straight into a 32 bit ALU wired more or less straight into the data cache 03:17:59 (or RAM) 03:18:36 With opcodes as close as possible to microcode 03:18:36 I dunno, I suspect you could simplify it slightly. But you'd be shuffling a few relatively inessential features. 03:19:17 you could take out the ADD instruction that does interrupts on overflows yeah 03:19:33 and probably the add carry instruction too (if I remember correctly) 03:19:34 I am not worried too much about speed, and consider simplicity of the implementation to be more important 03:19:41 MIPS definitely lacks gratuitous insanity, which already makes it, like, the simplest common ISA. 03:20:13 you could take out the multiplier 03:20:18 but then multiplies are a lot slower 03:20:34 you could take out the multiple memory access sizes 03:20:55 but then if you have something that does 8 or 16 bit accesses it becomes a lot slower 03:21:26 you could take out the memory ops that do address calculation 03:22:14 -!- ^v has changed nick to notmad. 03:22:19 but then you're using more registers and more instruction cache and also memory accesses become 2 cycles for real essentially 03:22:40 so it's a bad idea 03:23:53 (though I guess it would simplify implementation) 03:26:19 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 03:27:35 It is why I suggested doing things such as programming the user program in microcodes 03:27:50 you could probably take out most immediates in instructions which would make it appreciably slower and use up registers but it would simplify the instruction set 03:28:24 using microcodes would definitely make it easier to implement 03:28:31 and maybe not slower 03:28:37 but harder to program also 03:28:49 Yes, that is why I suggest it; it make it easier to implement and not slower. 03:28:51 and it would have larger programs 03:30:04 You could still have the user program in the microcode to implement some instruction set for the rest of the program if it would help to do so for that particular program, but you don't have to, in case it won't help with that program 03:30:34 this sounds sorta like the itanium 03:30:40 which was VLIW-ish 03:30:50 mad: I'd be in favor of taking out immediates if you just wanted a "very simple" ISA. 03:30:54 Yes, VLIW is also part of the design I am thinking of to do 03:31:04 it actually worked kinda well for floating point code 03:31:06 But yes, I'll agree with your point (in essence) 03:31:21 but it was just worse than x86 for normal integer stuff 03:31:36 MIPS is about as simple as you can get without having to hit major tradeoffs. 03:32:20 Such as "eh, it'll be notably slower at any computations, but who cares" 03:32:23 due to larger instructions (= less instruction cache and instruction loading bandwidth), less crazy reordering and memory renaming etc 03:32:39 yeah it's kinda hard to take anything from MIPS 03:32:56 it's like, every thing it has is useful 03:33:28 inversely it's not that easy to add stuff to MIPS 03:33:40 aside from separate stuff like a FPU and a SIMD unit 03:34:01 And goofy stuff that you wonder why any human being would desire it. 03:34:15 any kind of thing you can add has a performance downside somewhere 03:34:44 in particular running out of register read ports 03:34:46 You could *totally* have a "x86 segmented address to physical address" instruction in there, it'd just be a bad idea. :) 03:35:03 Even *if* all you want to do with it is emulate 16-bit x86. 03:35:13 true 03:35:44 I'm pretty sure even x86 cpus have an extra cycle latency penalty somewhere if you use that stuff too 03:36:15 Oh, I imagine. There's rather a lot of x86 features floating around that you can only use at serious cost. 03:36:31 true 03:36:45 or at just enough cost that it's just not worth it 03:37:10 I mean, come on, x87 handles BCD. 03:37:27 -!- notmad has changed nick to ^v. 03:37:38 as in, you're not gaining anything over using the x86 as some kind of degenerate MIPS 03:38:19 I'm still not sure if the instructions that do a calculation + a memory load aren't worth it though 03:38:30 stuff like add eax, [ebx + 64] 03:40:11 it has a lot of downsides (it's 3 cycles+ latency and it has all the complexity of both a memory load and a calculation, plus it can require 3 register read ports) 03:40:30 but it's also kindof compact and useful and it's essentially 2 instructions in 1 03:40:53 The modern x86 set is really extremely too complicated 03:41:27 It's not designed, it's evolved. 03:41:48 And it is evolved badly too. 03:41:49 perhaps it could use some selection pressure. 03:42:03 actually, has there been any work on mechanical processor design 03:42:48 it could use some pruning yes 03:43:00 mostly some way of getting rid of 16bit mode 03:43:21 you know, like evolving an instruction set where the fitness measurement is the average performance on some benchmark programs, or something. 03:43:35 and segment addressing if possible (which might be impossible due to being used in win32 programs) 03:43:38 No, the thing you should get rid of is things like Super Mario game in one instruction and so on 03:43:46 (x86 doesn't have that, but it has things almost as complicated) 03:44:02 x86 has BCD 03:44:21 x86 has BCD in multiple different ways. 03:44:23 which is retarded but at some point a bank wanted it so they got it 03:44:51 There's BCD on the normal registers *and* BCD in the x87 FPU. 03:45:05 always wanted floating point bcd 03:45:16 I don't want to imagine the perf on x87 FPU :3 03:45:29 it's probably something monstruous like an interrupt on each operation 03:45:30 Oh, that's the funny part. It's not floating point. 03:45:41 x87 actually can be used as an integer unit as well. 03:45:56 awesome. 03:45:57 16, 32, and 64 bit ints. 03:46:08 thank goodness i looked up the x87 pusher once and found out he's pretty much crazy. 03:46:10 heh, that's... horrible 03:46:59 Eh, not quite as bad as you'd expect at least. x87 float's mantissa is 64 bits. 03:47:34 what's the point of using the fpu for doing integer calculations 03:47:47 8086. 03:48:14 but seriously anybody got an answer re: my random speuclating 03:48:15 didn't the 8087 have monstruously long cycle times? 03:48:28 -!- mnoqy has joined. 03:48:30 Just made myself a nice Read instance for (a -> b) using the hint package. I’ve been needing that. 03:48:47 Compared with doing 64-bit int add from your 16-bit ALU? :) 03:48:49 carado: How does that work? 03:49:03 pikhq: that's like 3 ADC's and an ADD 03:49:27 zzo38, the hint package allows one to interpret Haskell in Haskell using GHC as a library. 03:49:29 dunno how long that is on the 8086 but on the 286 and 386 that's not particularly long 03:49:45 But yeah, it's goofy. 03:49:58 carado: O, OK, I suppose that can work. 03:50:08 like 24 cycles if your operand is in memory 03:51:03 * pikhq blinks some more 03:51:16 There were *non* 8087-compatible floating point coprocessors for the 8086 03:51:34 Yes, x86 is really stupid. 03:51:35 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 03:51:56 x86 is still better than 6502 03:51:59 This worked because the 8086 03:52:09 and it's probably better than the z80 03:52:16 No, I think x86 is the most stupid one. 03:52:19 no way 03:52:29 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 03:52:29 the 6502 is impossible to pipeline 03:52:32 's knowledge of floats was just looking for the sequence 0b11011. 03:52:48 the x86 has lots of cruft but it's pipelinable 03:52:58 We'd probably regret the 6502 a lot more than the x86 if it'd survived. 03:53:45 6502's 2013 version still has the page boundary bug,for compat :D 03:54:00 like, aside from the cruft and the memory-operation opcodes and no 3 operand opcodes, the x86 is still essentially an 8 register RISC 03:54:08 I can guarantee that the hacks on the 6502 would be at *least* as bad as x86. 03:54:31 like, you can turn the x86 into the pentium 03:54:44 which is actually pretty nice in many ways 03:54:48 pikhq: Yes, they would, but that is why, don't do it. 03:54:59 you can't make a pentium version of the 6502 03:55:04 it's essentially unpossible 03:55:28 don't upgrade 6502 by evolution for thirty years. got it. 03:55:44 you'd have to try something insane like turning the zero page into a register file 03:55:55 that sounds awesomely shitty. 03:56:04 That is why, don't do such things; keep it as it is. 03:56:07 x86 is bad because you don't want to break DOS. 03:56:17 But DOS is not so bad. 03:56:19 and also combining multiple opcodes together into single opcodes 03:56:21 like 03:57:38 lda $60 + clcl + adc $64 + sta $68 => add r68h, r60h, r64h 03:59:09 I'm not familiar enough with the z80 but it has similar faults 03:59:36 mainly that they ran out of instructions super fast so it has instruction prefixes all over the place 03:59:42 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 03:59:42 -!- fizzie has joined. 03:59:43 -!- fizzie has quit (Changing host). 03:59:44 -!- fizzie has joined. 04:01:42 though it does have enough registers to compute stuff so it's probably a lot better than the 6502 still 04:01:43 like, afaik it's somewhere between the 6502 and the x86 in terms of design 04:01:43 68000 might have been better than x86 04:02:20 it's at least an OK instruction set since they pipelined it and superscalared it 04:02:26 Maybe 04:02:37 and I'm not sure if the separation between address and data registers is a good or a bad thing 04:03:36 it's slightly more CISC than x86 but it doesn't have 8bit opcodes (everything is multiples of 16 bits) and it definitely has less instruction set insanity 04:04:06 though it has opcodes that do like 4 thing and have debatable usefulness 04:06:01 then again it doesn't have real mode 04:07:35 zzo38 : anyhow 04:07:49 the mips has more or less ideal latency for everything (1 cycle) 04:08:09 (2 cycle for memory access since that's really an add then a load) 04:08:41 which means that the only real way to beat it is to do 2 or 3 or more things on each cycle 04:09:36 and then again you could just superscalarize the mips and make it 2-instructions per cycle 04:09:51 in which case you're once again not winning anything over the mips 04:14:17 essentially to win anything over the mips you need to be doing something like DSP 04:14:27 with hand coded assembly 04:14:48 and not too many load/stores 04:15:31 (if there are too many load/stores then the program becomes bottlenecked by memory bandwidth or something like that and then you're not faster than a MIPS) 04:15:43 Can you play Pokemon card? 04:16:23 Anyone that can play Pokemon card, please review some thing I wrote relating to it 04:28:04 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Quit: Leaving). 04:29:28 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 04:36:16 Do you know about "Worse-Is-Better" design? 04:38:45 no 04:42:00 It is also called New Jersey style. 04:42:42 i forget, did the guy who wrote worse is better i forget his name like christopher alexander 04:43:18 Wikipedia says Richard P. Gabriel 04:43:29 yeah him. 04:44:04 interesting guy. did some work on parallel code in lisp. trying to get straight how fucked he was wrt design though 04:44:10 have you ever, like, seen christopher alexander's writing 04:44:27 I don't know 04:46:48 I think too many programs in modern Linux systems are not implemented as a filter, even though they ought to be. The program "dvilj4" gives a help file when you invoke it with no arguments, although I think it ought to act like a filter 04:47:36 higgledy piggledy, / richard p. gabriel / said worse is better / (so better is worse); // turns out the worst, though -- / worse even than better -- is / how i decided to / finish this verse 04:48:18 kmc: ☠more double dactyl 04:48:31 <3 04:48:54 haha, beaut. 04:48:57 Oops, that "(so" should be moved to the left of the /. 04:49:12 aren't you supposed to have one line that's a single word? maybe that's why it's worse 04:49:18 Oh, right. 04:49:21 I forgot about that. :-( 04:50:21 imo someone fix it 04:52:46 mad: Do you have any idea relating to hardware programming languages? 04:59:14 hm 05:07:40 I have written a few things of some of my ideas. 05:08:13 One thing I have is that numbers are specified in binary format by default (you need a prefix for decimal and hex). 05:12:33 Another is how module calls work; in Verilog you have module calls with names and I/O, but in HWPL (the name for my (incomplete) design), instead you have macro parameters in parentheses after the module name (the call itself has no name), and then after that you have the I/O vector (there is just one I/O vector). 05:14:35 (and the number of bits in the I/O vector is an implicit macro parameter) 05:15:04 What is your opinion of these kind of things? 05:19:52 kinda falling asleep atm :o 05:20:07 OK 05:25:05 -!- douglass has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:41:01 It looks to me that SQL is almost suitable for text adventure games. 05:48:24 -!- zzo38 has left. 05:48:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 05:49:21 05:55:51 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:03:04 zzo38: do you think that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_Park is New Jersey Style 06:03:17 lol 06:03:36 kmc: I may look later, not now 06:03:42 ok 06:07:10 kmc: wavelet trees are neat 06:07:16 what are they 06:07:18 you missed edwardk's explanation in -lens 06:07:22 aw 06:07:30 wavelets have to do with lens? 06:07:40 #-lens is more like #edwardk 06:08:02 "It generalizes the \mathbf{rank}_q and \mathbf{select}_q operations defined on bitvectors to arbitrary alphabets." oh, that's nice. 06:08:30 I could probably paste the logs. 06:23:33 kmc: what are some nifty data structures and things 06:34:12 skip lists 06:34:29 -!- mad has quit (Quit: Radiateur). 06:37:17 i already know about those :'( 06:38:27 work stealing queues 06:39:05 fibonacci heaps (comedy answer) 06:49:43 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:56:09 -!- ssue___ has joined. 06:57:54 -!- ssue__ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:57:54 -!- ssue___ has changed nick to ssue__. 06:59:52 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 07:03:15 -!- sdile has joined. 07:03:19 Has anyone used Inline::C/ASM in Perl? 07:03:38 Is it worth using for just getting the address ESP points to? I feel like I'm cheating if I start using inline ASM in C, since I haven't been introduced to it. 07:04:27 Cheating due to not being introduced to it? 07:04:33 I don't think so. 07:05:58 zzo38: I don't understand how it works, but I could read up on it. 07:06:11 I'm not sure what "getting the address ESP points to" means in your context exactly. 07:06:37 shachaf: With regard to bufferoverflows/shellcode 07:06:52 I feel like it's the same as ripping code. 07:07:19 Do you think it's okay to just read up on it and use it, even if I haven't done it in K&R2? 07:07:49 I'm mostly not sure what you're on about. 07:10:50 using some Perl thing to find the value of ESP within some Perl code would not be very helpful for exploiting a C program, I think 07:11:09 I suggest you either learn the little bit of asm (it's not much) or do the hack of taking the address of a local variable, which will probably give you a number near ESP 07:11:20 but I'm not really sure what you're on about, either 07:13:43 kmc: What I'm up to is just pointers, memcpy() and inline ASM. Pointers and memcpy() is chapter 5 I'm pretty certain, inline ASM I can just read up on after that. 07:13:52 I'm almost up to chapter 4, so I'll just have to speed through it. 07:14:22 I've used Inline::C for no particular reason. But I concur that getting the value of esp in an Inline::C function does not sound terribly useful. 07:16:32 fizzie: It does sound ridiculous. 07:17:01 fizzie: But, I felt like it's cheating if I used inline ASM in C. 07:17:12 Since I'm not that far into it, yet. 07:17:36 My "TV plot" program has been updated; now you can make even more strange and/or interesting and/or bad movies. 07:25:08 sdile: Why do you need the address ESP points to? 07:25:34 It won't be very portable if you have ASM codes anyways 07:26:12 x86 is p. portable 07:26:56 Not really so much. 07:51:15 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:02:45 Is there some way to unreverb audio signal? 08:06:57 I am trying to create a 'broken/vulnerable' encryption algorithm, in which one can obtain the key. http://pastebin.com/zj7b8Tsx 08:06:58 Any ideas? 08:08:31 Why do you try to do that? 08:08:55 Just for fun/learning 08:09:03 OK 08:11:11 So any ideas? 08:11:53 One idea I have is somehow have in addition to the normal key, to have a algorithm key, which can be used to recover the normal key. 08:12:01 I don't know how you would do this, though. 08:13:49 There are various dereverberation algorithms, it's a big field. None of them are perfect, of course. 08:14:58 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:15:54 (And usually need some assumptions.) 08:17:05 useful for speech recognition? 08:17:23 Yes. 08:17:46 What if it isn't speech? 08:17:47 Might even be the context for majority of them. 08:18:48 can't you just apply the inverse of the reverb? how hard can it be? 08:18:59 Some of them presumably would work up to some degree. Esp. the multi-microphone ones, but you might have just a single channel. 08:19:45 olsner: It's p. easy if you have a good estimate of the reverb. 08:22:16 ( i.e. 4 // random number generated by toss of fair die 08:22:16 ) 08:22:33 i suppose if you use a block cipher with most of the block full of the same garbage in each block, then you will reveal the key 08:23:33 if you poll /dev/random for 512 bits and compose blocks with the same 512 as fill.... 08:25:20 Anyone? 08:25:39 You could try that, see if it is working 08:26:15 hum... spending over 1.5 hours writing a comment... exhausting 08:26:43 What comment? 08:27:13 for Hackage, it's a bit of a dense one. https://github.com/haskell/hackage-server/issues/40#issuecomment-23773355 08:33:35 for example. gen a key array; instead of target = xor(source[index],key_element[index])... do xor(source[index],key_element[index,index%N]) 08:35:41 sdile: Why do you have both "index" and "index%N" for the "key_element" now? 08:36:43 zzo38: take the same XOR code, but vary the key. the key is a keyset 08:36:51 so instead of a 1d array, it's 2d. 08:37:54 OK, it certainly doesn't seem so useful (since not all of the array is in use, it would seem), unless you can vary N, or whatever 08:49:02 zzo38: i am suggesting two dimenions, with the second being somewhat small (10, 20) 08:49:27 Yes, I know that already 08:50:49 zzo38: but... in retrospect, i see that does not make it two dimensional, it just makes the other bytes redundat 08:50:50 n 08:51:00 Yes that is what I was saying 08:56:34 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 09:20:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 09:24:01 `slist gamzee 09:24:03 slist gamzee: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 09:40:47 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 09:41:00 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 09:45:48 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:10:33 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:38:35 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 10:43:09 -!- Guest18414 has joined. 10:54:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:22:11 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:28:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:29:49 -!- sdile has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:32:02 -!- conehead has joined. 11:44:03 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:45:25 help i am nervous 11:52:07 nyaa? 11:57:53 Thank you Fiora 12:17:27 -!- Taneb has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:26:49 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 13:02:29 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:03:21 -!- boily has joined. 13:03:47 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:34:10 good not-so-many-idlers-today morning! 13:35:51 Idling is the great international pastime. :) 13:36:57 pikhello! 13:37:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 13:38:43 `relcome azaq23 13:38:46 ​azaq23: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 13:43:10 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:50:27 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 13:56:51 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:07:40 -!- monotone_ has changed nick to monotone. 14:22:01 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:24:07 -!- Taneb has joined. 14:27:55 -!- azaq23 has joined. 14:35:37 -!- azaq23 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 14:41:37 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:57:33 -!- augur has joined. 15:03:13 hi boily 15:03:40 hi quintopia. still voiced? 15:03:56 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:04:08 yep. i will stay voiced until my vps crashes again 15:04:10 hellom_Hoover. 15:04:17 but that hasnt happened in a long time 15:05:06 how many nines can you expect from your vps? what are the k and λ of the crashes per year? 15:06:13 it never crashed until this year. i have no idea why it started happening, but it was often for a while there. probably some changes i made causing a recurring kernel panic. 15:07:25 what the fuck 15:07:25 suddenly i can't connect to steam 15:10:34 sometimes people get emotionally estranged for subtle reasons. i doubt it is completely uncaused. what kinds of things have you been saying to steam the past few days? 15:12:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 15:13:21 boily: i need an umlaut 15:14:02 ¨ 15:14:09 that's a trema but no one will notice 15:15:55 quintopia: I can umlautify random letters in my ongoing LaTeX project. 15:16:14 (they'll be real, certified authentic german-made umlauts. accept no substitute!) 15:17:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:17:32 quintopia: also, if you're attempting to apply vodou on Phantom_Hoover with tréma, the rituals will... well... they'll work. but then there are Cönsequences. 15:17:45 no comment 15:18:33 No Cömment eh 15:18:38 no, I am not insane. the mayonnaise from that early morning BTL bagel from McDo didn't have no abverse effect on me whatsoever. 15:18:47 s/ab/ad/ 15:19:04 i c wut u did thar 15:19:13 s/TL/LT/ 15:19:22 can't fool me with your sneaky double negatives 15:19:39 darn. foiled again! 15:22:37 * quintopia shoots a pineapple chunk at boily from a straw 15:23:42 * boily receives a ballistic fruit chunk on his head. “Hey!†15:24:13 it's the only cure for mayo-induced insanity 15:25:05 * boily glares at quintopia ã˜ã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œã€œ 15:25:30 * quintopia ducks and hides 15:29:15 I know where you (approáºimately) live! you won't get away! nyah. nyah ah ah. MWAH AH AH AH AH AH AH! 15:30:19 (oh, Ạis used in Kurdish for [Ê]. interesting.) 15:32:08 rotated-and-flipped small-but-capital R 15:34:31 Koen_: the metropolitan French «r». 15:35:13 -!- Guest18414 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:35:50 oh 15:36:00 just call it [r] then 15:36:30 in that case, it's [Ê], but /r/. 15:36:47 (those phone{m,t}ic transliterations are confusing as fungot.) 15:36:47 boily: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over, with much ado. your sister is the better part made mercie, i should think at least, that is expressions which have not been able to 15:36:52 boily: Oh hai 15:37:37 boily: you don't know my current coordinates1 15:37:42 Roujo: ãŠæ—©ã†ã€‚ 15:37:44 boily:are you implying that phonetics written as /.../ and [...] are two DIFFERENT languages? 15:38:06 ãªã«? 15:38:51 Koen_: afaiu, the phonemic /.../ uses as many different symbols needed to differentiate all recognized sounds in a language, and then you have [...] for the exact realisation. itthth. 15:38:54 Roujo: bon matin. 15:39:16 bof 15:39:37 Koen_: so, whatever the way we each realise our «r»s, it'll be /r/ because French has a single «r» sound. 15:39:48 boily: Ohayou gozaimasu! =D 15:40:01 I can do some japanese, just... no kanjis =P 15:40:02 Roujo: say, do you roll your «r»? 15:40:10 boily: Define rolling 15:40:19 And if you just post SAMPA, it doesn't count 15:40:25 so there's a different /../ for every language, but there's a signle [...] and it's international? 15:40:27 Or IPA 15:40:37 Or whatever 15:40:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_trill 15:40:50 boily: Better yet! Record yourself, and I'll tell you 15:40:50 Koen_: something like that. there's some fuziness, depending on what you're analysing. 15:40:51 "rolling an r" imo 15:40:57 nooodl: Thanks ^^ 15:41:13 I can't do that >_> 15:41:30 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_uvular_fricative usual french r 15:41:32 Roujo: c'est pas compliqué pour moi. prend l'accent de québec. 15:41:40 maybe not in québec though 15:41:51 nooodl: That's how I say it, yeah 15:41:54 nooodl: I have a friend from the Beauce region who rolls her rs. 15:42:22 nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:42:34 ... 15:42:50 `addquote nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:42:54 1101) nooodl: when my girlfriend asks me to give her uvular fricative I'm pretty sure that's not what she means 15:43:08 `? Koen_ 15:43:10 Koen_? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43:10 | 15:43:10 º¯`\o 15:43:11 `? Koen 15:43:12 Koen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 15:43:13 | 15:43:13 o/`¯º 15:43:14 Time to fix that 15:43:25 hum. 15:43:53 `run echo Uvular Fricative Expert, according to his girlfriend. *wink wink nudge nudge* > wisdom/koen_ 15:43:57 No output. 15:43:58 nooodl: the trilled r still exists. your best bet for hearing it is to find a vicar. 15:44:06 `rm wisdom/koen_ 15:44:07 :( 15:44:10 No output. 15:44:12 whyyyyy 15:44:12 that's just lazy 15:44:21 thanks Phantom 15:44:27 Alright, what do you suggest, then? 15:45:05 Roujo: also are you sure you can use the character '*' in a parameter for echo without quotes? 15:45:22 Koen_: Nope. Didn't stop me, though =P 15:45:30 What's the worst that could happen? 15:45:56 Roujo: just to be sure, use a «*̈». 15:46:12 well it could run the command with every file that matches *wink and every file that matches nudge*, or something 15:46:34 boily: How the hell do you do these 15:46:59 Koen_: Using echo? 15:47:12 If I had done something like rm, then yeah 15:47:18 Or cat 15:47:27 But echo... I don't see how it could break 15:47:38 Only one way to find out 15:47:43 (And no, that's not "man echo") 15:47:49 `run echo Test *test* test 15:47:50 Test *test* test 15:47:56 `run echo Test *test* test > testing 15:47:58 Roujo: http://pastebin.com/RS5hV8JH 15:48:00 No output. 15:48:06 `run cat testing 15:48:07 Test *test* test 15:48:10 There we go 15:48:31 Roujo: candian multilingual standard keyboard layout, and iso level 3 abuse :D 15:48:48 Koen_: Oooh, nice. I see what you mean now. 15:49:00 (also, some customisation, UIM with Anthy, and a waaaaaay too permissive terminal) 15:49:01 I thought you said that it would overwrite all the files 15:49:10 oh no echo wouldn't do that 15:49:13 Yeah 15:49:15 yeah I meant filename, not file 15:49:17 But I get what you mean now 15:49:42 I didn't know what could happen, I just figured that it wouldn't break anything other than that wisdom itself 15:51:01 boily: I see =P 15:52:00 Roujo: IPA input is a little bit more involved. I need a GTK app (usually leafpad) to select the input method, then copy&paste into weechat. 15:52:35 Oh =P 15:54:27 -!- carado has joined. 16:03:37 -!- PixelToast has joined. 16:05:18 -!- Solain has joined. 16:06:05 anyone active? 16:11:46 -!- Solain has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:13:54 bye 16:15:31 it's like shubshub 16:15:36 cool I'm still an op 16:15:46 would anyone like to be banned?? 16:18:53 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:21:44 I'm trying to quit, really 16:21:47 But thanks 16:21:51 Also, wow, Solain 16:22:00 A good... 6 minutes? 16:22:34 elliott, imo kick kmc he's bear 16:23:17 maybe I'll kick glogbackup for not actually needing to be here. 16:23:21 Gregor: will that break anything? 16:25:22 -!- conehead has joined. 16:33:01 elliott kicks glogbot, freenode dies 16:33:25 »Just got a PR pitch that described the act of placing a wet iPhone in a bag of rice to dry out as, "an old folk remedy."» 16:33:53 -!- carado_ has joined. 16:34:08 it's » » to represent moving towards the future, if you're wondering 16:34:12 an arrow of quoted fact 16:34:20 aimed directly at the heart of the past! 16:34:31 -!- elliott has kicked Bike thank you for giving me somebody to kick.. 16:34:43 -!- Bike has joined. 16:34:48 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o Bike. 16:34:49 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 16:34:51 my mischief is over. 16:34:53 what just happened 16:35:03 oh i got kicked wow 16:35:07 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -v elliott. 16:35:09 btw don't actually do anything unless it's amusing or oerjan will freak 16:35:10 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:35:11 that'll show you 16:35:28 -!- carado_ has changed nick to carado. 16:36:08 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:42:28 I take it oerjan is allergic to admin abuse? 16:43:04 only when he doesn't do it, hth! 16:43:17 (ilu oerjan <3) 16:54:03 He's not even in here 16:54:09 So abuse away! =D 16:55:24 we have logs 16:56:30 and oerjan has a habit of reading through the logs when he arrives 16:56:39 hello, future oerjan 16:57:08 sure would be unfortunate if something were to... happen to those logs, huh 16:57:16 something like................. 16:57:22 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -v glogbackup. 16:57:25 !!!!! 16:57:39 they're still on tunes and codu 16:57:53 good luck with devoicing the server 16:58:05 dude i said !!!!! 16:58:10 get with the program. this is bikeland now. 16:58:15 oh sorry 16:58:23 honestly. 16:58:30 you should edit `welcome then 16:59:03 ohhh I gotta go 16:59:09 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 17:00:09 -!- augur has joined. 17:00:18 -!- tromp__ has quit. 17:01:57 * Roujo sets mode -v codu.org 17:05:16 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 17:09:39 -!- Bike has joined. 17:09:45 Heh. 17:09:50 and so the glorious reign of bike ends. 17:10:10 not with a bang, but with god why does it always take five minutes to connect here. 17:10:16 ridiculous. 17:10:19 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o Bike. 17:10:29 three strikes and yer out 17:11:10 Bike: You timed out 260 seconds after I devoiced the server, with a timeout of 256 seconds 17:11:15 I find that very suspicious 17:11:24 back from a phở and Bike is op. interesting. 17:11:49 no. it's too late now. 17:11:56 -!- Bike has set channel mode: +o Roujo. 17:12:01 -!- Bike has set channel mode: -o Bike. 17:12:02 Wooo 17:12:07 i must leave the empire to another. 17:12:08 uhm. 17:12:15 I will honor the empire 17:12:21 * boily feels suddenly, viscerally terrified 17:12:28 (I just want to see oerjan react to this =P) 17:12:47 -!- Roujo has set channel mode: +v boily. 17:12:54 Don't feel bad, young boily 17:12:59 well, anyway, how's the pho 17:13:03 woo! back to voice! 17:13:11 i have to talk about these things now that i'm merely a commoner 17:13:22 Bike: 'twas good. the thai pepper was still fresh and powerful. 17:13:28 Roujo, req. ops 17:13:29 cool 17:13:33 don't remember the last time i had pho really 17:13:38 Bike: beware of 3.5e cats. they can kill you. 17:13:42 which is weird because i like noodles in general?? 17:13:43 Phantom_Hoover: + 17:13:51 That's a nice operator 17:13:52 imo give phantom halfop. 17:14:02 I don't think freenode supports half-ops 17:14:04 I tried once 17:14:05 Bike: there are a few places where you can get handmade ramen for cheap. 17:14:05 %Phantom_Hoover 17:14:18 hand made ramen? sewn out of raw tree 17:14:19 "h: is an unknown mode char to me" 17:14:30 to whom 17:14:34 The server 17:14:41 the server can talk? 17:14:46 E replied that when I tried to half-op Phantom_Hoover 17:14:52 Sure 17:14:58 /quote the server 17:15:00 You'll see 17:15:01 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -o Roujo. 17:15:03 D: 17:15:04 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v boily. 17:15:05 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v kmc. 17:15:07 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v quintopia. 17:15:09 * Bike feels suddenly, viscerally terrified 17:15:16 a coup! 17:15:16 uhm. 17:15:22 Thus ended the Reign of Roujo the Lachinois 17:15:38 who dares, and how can i properly demonstrate my fealty to them 17:16:03 That's double talk for "suck up to them", right? 17:16:15 single talk, really 17:16:48 =P 17:21:03 `? ramen 17:21:05 ramen? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:21:06 | 17:21:06 º¯`\o 17:21:48 `run echo "拉麵是一種類型的麵æ¢ç¸«è£½å¾žåŽŸå§‹æ¨¹æœ¨ã€‚" >wisdom/ramen 17:21:52 No output. 17:22:04 because I hate myself and need more latexian challenges. 17:24:08 Woooo 17:25:14 oh, and one more thing: elliott, you are oppressing me. check your privileges. 17:27:24 `run fsck /dev/privilege 17:27:25 bash: fsck: command not found 17:27:35 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:34:33 `run cksum /dev/privilege 17:34:34 cksum: /dev/privilege: No such file or directory 17:34:42 `run cksum wisdom/ramen 17:34:44 1845405672 55 wisdom/ramen 17:35:30 `run cksum /dev/random > bin/fsck 17:35:38 Hmmm 17:35:39 -!- Guest18414 has joined. 17:35:50 An echo was supposed to get in there 17:35:58 Welp 17:36:11 Also, /dev/urandom 17:36:14 Re-welp 17:36:25 /dev/evenmorerandom 17:36:33 No output. 17:36:36 Nice 17:36:42 `run cat bin/fksk 17:36:44 cat: bin/fksk: No such file or directory 17:36:49 Guest18414: who are you? why don't you echo? did you check the Random Check? how does the aftertaste of a mouthful of algæ feel? 17:36:50 `run cat bin/fsck 17:36:52 No output. 17:37:02 `run echo cksum /dev/random > bin/fsck 17:37:06 No output. 17:37:07 `run echo cksum /dev/urandom > bin/fsck 17:37:09 There we go 17:37:11 No output. 17:37:14 `relcome Guest18414 17:37:17 ​Guest18414: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:37:21 than dogs 17:37:31 ~yi 17:37:31 Your divination: "Small Exceeding" to "Conjoining" 17:37:36 ~yi 17:37:36 Your divination: "Parting" to "Articulating" 17:37:40 Nice one 17:37:43 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 17:37:45 stop doing it more than once........... 17:37:49 Bike: small exceeding is more conjoining than dogs. 17:37:57 Well, I don't want *his* divination 17:37:58 Really 17:37:59 I want mine 17:38:01 Roujo: do not consume more than your fair share of yiïtude. 17:38:31 boily: Is one more than a fair share? 17:38:37 Bike: it said small exceeding 17:38:44 Roujo: dunno. ask Bike. 17:38:45 a small exceeding of the amount of ~yis is therefore indicated 17:38:51 `run fsck elliott 17:38:53 bash: /hackenv/bin/fsck: Permission denied 17:39:03 Right. 17:39:10 `run chmod +x bin/fsck 17:39:14 No output. 17:39:14 `run fsck elliott 17:39:45 No output. 17:40:00 That's... good? 17:41:08 ~metar CYUL 17:41:15 uhm. 17:41:28 The BotVerse broke 17:41:36 Singularity is imminent 17:41:36 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:41:42 (Run) 17:41:43 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:41:47 ~metar CYUL 17:41:48 CYUL 041709Z 21008KT 15SM -SHRA FEW020 BKN030 OVC090 17/14 A2986 RMK SC2SC3AC3 SLP111 DENSITY ALT 400FT 17:42:10 phew. and here I thought even the weather was borken. 17:44:30 Don't mention the raining squirrels 17:44:34 They don't like that up there 17:45:40 one of the first thing I noticed when I moved to Montréal was the humongous megasquirrels. 17:45:59 -!- PixelToast has changed nick to dan200. 17:46:30 -!- augur has joined. 17:51:25 `? boily 17:51:27 No output. 17:51:30 wut? 17:51:30 Heh 17:51:40 but, but... 17:51:54 `? but 17:51:56 but? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 17:51:56 | 17:51:56 º¯`\o 17:51:59 `pastewisdom 17:52:00 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 17:52:57 okay, so `learn is once again acting weird. 17:53:04 `? elliott 17:53:06 No output. 17:53:12 :o 17:53:46 `? roujo 17:53:48 Roujo is a Java heretic leaning on ungrammatical Haskell. His claim to Canadianness is marred by an unholy portal to China. The treaties suffer, so the cocktail will be postponed. 17:57:46 oh, that is good 17:58:47 I'm lagging behind... time to upgrade! 17:59:03 `run sudo apt-get upgrade boily 17:59:04 bash: sudo: command not found 17:59:10 Well crap 17:59:20 `? treaty 17:59:21 `run which apt-get 17:59:22 The Treaty on `lists treats how to `list our treats. 17:59:23 ​/usr/bin/apt-get 17:59:26 Nice 17:59:30 `run apt-get upgrade boily 17:59:32 W: Unable to read /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ - DirectoryExists (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Could not open lock file /var/lib/dpkg/lock - open (2: No such file or directory) \ E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), are you root? 17:59:36 Pff 17:59:53 `run su - 17:59:55 No output. 18:00:00 So... yes? 18:00:35 -!- fsioufosud has joined. 18:00:39 `relcome fsioufosud 18:00:42 ​fsioufosud: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:04:32 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:05:02 I guess he fell off 18:10:10 this compiler command line is... 16,840 characters long 18:10:58 That's a bit frightening 18:11:16 You just got to the point where you almost need to optimize *that* before compiling 18:12:23 you know something went horribly wrong when you have a novella in a compiler line... 18:12:48 yeah... I wonder what the maximum command line length is on this system 18:12:53 most compilers support a response file to put the command line when you reach the OS limit 18:13:01 olsner: .... 18:13:08 presumably because some projects inevitably actually need it 18:13:15 I'm curious 18:13:17 What does it look like? 18:13:23 Why would you get to that point? 18:13:28 Well, how, really 18:13:43 linking anything with a huge number of modules, for example 18:13:44 add files, add more files, keep adding more files, and eventually you get there 18:13:46 Admitedly, I don't compile stuff using the command line 18:13:58 So I don't even kno-- oh 18:14:02 Yeah, simple enough 18:14:06 * Roujo facepalms 18:14:34 compiler -f file.cpp file2.cpp ... filen-1.cpp filen.cpp 18:14:37 Like that&? 18:14:50 (With just files) 18:14:58 some projects use absolute paths, recursive symlinks, redundant ../ components in paths, etc to reach the limit faster 18:15:03 Nice 18:15:27 it has a lot of things like -L/home/keegan/proj/servo/servo/build/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/src/support/png/rust-png/src/.libs -Wl,-rpath,/home/keegan/proj/servo/servo/build/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/src/support/png/rust-png 18:15:38 for each of like two dozen libraries 18:15:43 also some of them are just repeated I think 18:16:31 -!- yorick has joined. 18:16:44 Good stuff =P 18:17:38 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:19:45 -!- fsioufosud has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:20:05 -!- xxx has joined. 18:20:09 -!- Taneb has joined. 18:21:36 `relcome xxx 18:21:39 ​xxx: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:26:49 -!- Bike has joined. 18:30:20 Roujo: a Bike falling off a Bike. I'm ashamed it took me that long to understand it. 18:31:09 ^^ 18:31:36 can i help you 18:31:44 can you help us? 18:33:07 [14:04:32] Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat115.it.wsu.edu] has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 240 seconds 18:33:07 [14:05:01] I guess he fell off 18:33:13 That is all, really 18:33:18 boring imo 18:33:35 Might be 18:33:41 I didn't claim otherwise 18:33:56 It was a spur-of-the-moment thing 18:34:06 Ehlp with what? 18:34:09 Nothing too serious 18:35:14 zzo38: I don't think this channel supports extended help. you're stuck with regular help here. hth. 18:35:45 man #esoteric 18:35:52 `run man #esoteric 18:35:54 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 18:38:30 -!- tromp has joined. 18:39:59 `relcome tromp 18:40:01 ​tromp: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:40:36 `run cat /dev/random > /dev/boily 18:40:38 bash: /dev/boily: Read-only file system 18:40:42 wat 18:41:12 Bike: I formatted your quotes in the wisdom pdf. 18:41:26 cool, what 18:42:03 boily: Why are you read-only. Why can't you change. 18:42:15 I gave you the chance to change. I was there for you. 18:42:24 I only asked little things every now and then 18:42:27 Bike: I just need to format that }-ful part, but otherwise I think everything else is fine. 18:42:28 I just wanted to be happy, for once 18:42:41 is this in the topic 18:42:44 Roujo: it's a temporary maintenance measure. 18:42:46 Bike: it is. 18:42:50 But apparently, I'm not even enough for you to do that 18:42:59 Who will be enough, boily? 18:43:04 Who will you change for? 18:43:09 (inb4 root) 18:43:21 Roujo: uhm... my SO, I guess? 18:43:58 Roujo: tu peux toujours aussi faire un tour à soir à La Récréation (coin St-Denis / Ontario). y'a une soirée jeux organisée pour le festival OUMF. 18:44:05 Heh =P 18:44:22 J'aime bien les envolées pseudo-lyriques 18:44:22 boily: "The People Wisom"? 18:45:11 Bike: yes? should I have titled the chapter “The Moving Thingies Wisdomâ€? 18:45:32 is it not "Wisdom" 18:45:39 boily: J'ai un peu un souper avec ma SO, en fait =P 18:45:47 Bike: oh. right. stupid typo. 18:45:57 'faut dégeler le poulet et tout 18:46:09 also, ais's quotes at least aren't all newlined, oh no 18:46:20 Roujo: dans ce cas là, m'a te souhaiter un bon dégelage bien romantique et tout et tout :D 18:46:35 Bike: I know, it was only a first attempt. I'm handreformatting everything. 18:46:40 ouch. 18:47:00 bah. only a kiloquote all in all. nothing too long. 18:47:13 boily: Le poulet, c'est pour demain. Ce soir, c'est du saumon qui a mariné toute la journée. =3 18:47:25 Roujo: oooooooooooh! yummy! 18:50:12 -!- conehead has joined. 18:51:33 `? quicksilver 18:51:35 quicksilver? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 18:51:35 | 18:51:35 º¯`\o 18:51:52 hmm... obscure people are archæologically referenced in antique quotes. 18:52:52 Do you know of Z-Comp? 18:52:54 like itidus? 18:53:30 Bike: I was there when itidus was. I'm talking even more earlier in the Early Times. 18:53:50 that's earlier than me so it probably didn't actually happen 18:53:55 hopefully this makes things easier for you. 18:54:14 I'm used to things not existing. you know, Canada and all that sort of thing. 18:54:26 ~duck z-comp 18:54:27 --- No relevant information 18:55:06 If you want to enter Z-Comp then you have to enter by Saturday, 28 Sep 2013, 07:14:36 PM EDT. Do so if you are interested to make a computer game for Z-machine. There is two ways to enter, either make account in ifMUD and fill the form, or just write a message to me about your entry and I will put it in for you. 18:56:16 Are you interest to write computer games following the limitation of Z-machine? 18:56:49 The current theme (which is optional, and can be conjunctive or disjunctive at your choice) is: Richardson fire // 2009-10 Leicester City F.C. season // Merciful to gibbering mouthers and the other monsters 18:57:14 The first two are random Wikipedia article titles. The third is from a file I wrote myself (it is secret). 18:58:23 -!- ff34 has joined. 18:58:44 `relcome ff34 18:58:47 ​ff34: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 18:59:04 Do you have a color computer? 18:59:17 zzo38: I already visited your muddy apartment. the z-compo sounds very interesting, but I fear my free time is quite limited :( 18:59:36 my computer is a thinkpad. I fear it has no colour. 18:59:54 -!- xxx has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:00:14 boily: Ah. Well, it is recurring (with different themes each time, although the themes from my list will be eventually repeated if they weren't used yet in a submitted game) 19:01:58 Do you know when you do have time? 19:02:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 19:02:42 boily: Did you see all of the rooms in my ifMUD apartment yet though? 19:03:46 when the time gets grasped, it will be had. a carp a day, and a pickled salmon. 19:04:04 zzo38: exploring MUDs is even more time consuming than seeing everything in Riven. 19:04:38 That doesn't help about the time. Do you know approximately the time in terms of calendar, perhaps? 19:06:36 December at the earliest. 19:06:54 Do you like this theme or do you like a different theme? 19:08:22 I like the fire, the mouthers, but my general knowledge of Leicester is quite limited. 19:09:03 That is OK; you needn't use all of them (or any of them); combine them for a challenge or just use a single one if you prefer 19:09:43 firebreathing mouthers from outer space... RECYCLED IN SPACE!!! 19:10:29 cat boily | echo > boily 19:13:10 I have decided to make this theme file public anyways http://zzo38computer.org/zmachine/zcomptheme.txt 19:13:31 `? GreyKnight 19:13:33 GreyKnight? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 19:13:34 | 19:13:34 º¯`\o 19:13:46 another defunct artefact from olden times. 19:14:37 http://www.reddit.com/user/GreyKnight 19:14:49 One comment, two years ago 19:15:55 you won't find me on reddit :P 19:16:25 Oh god 19:16:26 ___ 19:16:27 ^^ 19:16:53 ___? 19:16:54 Bravo pour la rébellion 19:17:04 C'est toujours bien, se rebeller dans /r/___ 19:17:08 ah! :D 19:17:20 -!- Bike has joined. 19:17:30 isn't greyknight the one from ireland 19:17:57 boily: Do you like any of these themes? 19:18:48 zzo38: I... think you asked me that one already. tdh, twh, hth, and a good dose of déjà vu. 19:19:16 I did write the same question but the context is different now so it is a different kind of question really 19:19:45 oh. contextually, yes. /r/___ is quite original, and I've yet to meet somebody from Ireland. 19:20:15 @tell cpressey I'm gel-ing your aloofness. 19:20:15 Consider it noted. 19:20:17 I mean the file I just made public 19:20:53 -!- ff34 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:21:36 zzo38: oh. that link went straight through my blind spot. lemme check that... 19:21:37 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:22:14 @tell zzo38 “Automynorcagrammatical†what the fungot... I like that one. 19:22:14 Consider it noted. 19:22:14 boily: that is just a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there it is, in case he doesn't want you to the ancients, right. some numbers, perhaps, it may be said that particularly here, parliament will give a single instance, 19:43:42 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 19:44:34 btw, how's jsvine's II going? 19:48:29 I don't know but maybe fungot 19:48:29 olsner: more simply put: siod sucks as a general purpose ( similar, and i'd like to see that mystical forest powers, but this time on the impact of the introduction to theoretical computer, fnord of the fnord here, just above me, asked me to do that in the " better" language 19:48:35 mtve: are you still idling? kitty, kitty, kitty, kitty... 19:49:21 @tell jsvine siod, mystical forest powers, introduction impacts and some fnords. 19:49:22 Consider it noted. 19:50:32 time for the Daily LaTeX Question: anyone ever did big O notation? 19:50:34 Some what? 19:50:44 fnords 19:50:49 Roujo: a fnord. basic unit of “you didn't see thatâ€. 19:50:50 Nah, it never came up 19:50:55 A what? 19:50:59 I don't get it 19:51:21 the fnord is the quintessential invisible word. if you see it, then you don't. 19:52:02 But I use "the" all the time 19:52:07 And still see it 19:53:28 * boily facepalms 19:53:55 * boily lobs a whole pineapple over at Roujo's head. 19:54:06 Roujo: you fiend. 19:54:10 the fnord is one of the first visible signs of invisibility 19:54:59 boily: <3 19:56:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:06:43 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 20:11:27 is the plural of hiatus hiati? 20:11:59 Hiatusesii 20:12:56 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:13:10 olsner, if you're being pedantic it's "hiatus" 20:13:28 but that's the same as the singular 20:13:52 Yeah, Latin is a weird language and English ate a lot of its weirdness 20:14:06 "hiatuses" is acceptable in English 20:14:42 one hiatu, two hiatus, three hiatuses. 20:15:58 and then four hiatusesu, five hiatusesus, six hiatuseses? 20:17:33 olsner, you are getting the hang of this 20:18:01 So we just wait until suffixirth 20:18:36 -!- Bike has joined. 20:19:56 `? irthative 20:19:58 irthative? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 20:19:58 | 20:19:58 º¯`\o 20:20:05 "hiatuses" is "your best bet" here 20:20:52 nooodl, unless you're against a pedant 20:20:56 or maybe "breaks" 20:21:04 olsner, if anyone tells you "hiati", they are wrong 20:21:17 Taneb: nah you just ignore dumb people hth 20:21:31 `quote pedant 20:21:33 187) ... come to think of it, 20:21:59 i'm thinking of examples where "englishifying" a latin word, grammatically, sounds really bad... 20:22:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:22:35 imo "matrixes" is weird? 20:23:06 matrii? 20:23:17 matrices is the usual plural, no? 20:23:19 yes 20:23:37 matrix means uterus in latin? ok then 20:23:50 and in spanish (or something like it) 20:23:50 yay only spam in my inbox today 20:23:51 also "indices", "vertices". whereas "indexes" and "vertixes" are kinda dumb-looking 20:24:00 um, vertexes 20:24:09 wiktionary says the latin plural of "mÄtrÄ«x" is "mÄtrÄ«cÄ“s" 20:24:11 so, um. 20:24:15 what's the plural of asterix? 20:24:16 pick a different example? 20:24:20 asterices? 20:24:28 ateripodes 20:24:34 asteripodes, rather 20:24:47 probably asteripoda 20:25:07 Bike: i don't see the issue 20:25:20 i'm not talking about "-us" -> "-i" in specific, if that's what you mean 20:25:23 (makes it so quick to read, you know) 20:25:30 nooodl: you're not "englishifying" anything, the latin was originally "matrixes" 20:25:46 Bike: um _no_. 20:25:47 but it's not, it's martices 20:25:49 *matrices 20:26:09 -x -> -ces is pretty regular 3rd declension. 20:26:23 (you can also get -ges, though.) 20:26:38 wait, i misread. 20:26:41 wow, fuck, nevermind. bye 20:26:47 byeke 20:26:48 cu 20:27:04 if that's a *de*clension, is -ces -> -x a clension? 20:27:13 `pastelogs [Bb]yeke 20:27:25 something tells me i can't be original here 20:27:34 olsner, I think it's an aclension 20:27:53 dedeclension 20:27:53 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.3855 20:28:09 olsner: i decline to answer that. 20:28:09 oh god i am. amazing 20:28:20 code clension 20:29:16 `run fgrep '[a-z]' bin/* 20:29:19 No output. 20:29:30 `run fgrep '[A-Z]' bin/* 20:29:32 No output. 20:29:46 ok then 20:29:54 `run fgrep grep bin/* 20:29:55 bin/anonlog: grep -P -i -- "$1" ????-??-??.txt | shuf -n 1| sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ bin/anonlog: echo "$file:$(grep "<.*>" $file | shuf -n 1)" | sed "s=<[^>]*> ==" \ bin/define: grep -A 3 'Definitions of' | \ bin/etymology: grep -A 100 ']'"$1" | \ bin/google: grep -A 4 'Search Results' | \ bin/js:isOpenJDK=`$JAVA_CMD -version 2>&1 | gre 20:30:21 oh whatever. 20:30:31 hmm, it seems declension does mean something about bending, which is the swedish word for it 20:31:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:31:17 * oerjan was briefly wondering whether the grep localization madness from yesterday affected any HackEgo commands. 20:31:45 I missed grep localization madness? awwww 20:31:53 olsner: basically: 20:32:04 `run echo TEST | grep '[a-z]' 20:32:06 TEST 20:32:46 but... 20:32:50 why? 20:33:31 basically, grep [.-.] uses the local collation order to determine which letters are in between - so when that collation order is case insensitive, things get included unexpectedly. 20:33:49 `run echo ZZZ | grep '[a-z]' 20:33:51 No output. 20:33:57 weird 20:33:59 now guess why this _doesn't_ print :P 20:34:56 `run echo YYY | grep '[a-z]' 20:34:57 YYY 20:35:16 (btw you can still use [:upper:] and [:lower:] slightly more portably.) 20:35:21 because z < Z? 20:35:24 yep 20:36:06 brr, grep shouldn't use locales 20:36:08 I use grep in scripts and don't want it to be weird 20:36:14 `run echo ZZZ | grep -Finr '[a-z]' 20:36:15 No output. 20:36:23 `run echo ZZZ | grep -Einr '[a-z]' 20:36:25 1:ZZZ 20:36:37 `run echo ééé | grep -Einr '[a-z]' 20:36:39 1:ééé 20:36:44 neat. 20:37:02 olsner: just unset all the environment variables, _so_ simple. 20:37:20 `run locale 20:37:22 LANG=en_NZ.UTF-8 \ LANGUAGE= \ LC_CTYPE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NUMERIC="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TIME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_COLLATE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MONETARY="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MESSAGES="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_PAPER="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_NAME="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_ADDRESS="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_TELEPHONE="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_MEASUREMENT="en_NZ.UTF-8" \ LC_IDENTIFICATION="en_NZ 20:37:52 `run echo øøø | grep -Ei '[a-z]' 20:37:54 ​øøø 20:37:57 -!- dan200 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:38:06 `run echo áºáºáº | grep -Ei '[a-z]' 20:38:07 ​áºáºáº 20:38:30 using -i doesn't exactly demonstrate the weirdness 20:38:43 `run echo áºáºáº | grep -E '[a-z]' 20:38:44 ​áºáºáº 20:38:51 `run echo áºáºáº | grep '[a-z]' 20:38:53 ​áºáºáº 20:39:08 `run echo ê‘ê‘ê‘ | grep '[a-z]' 20:39:10 No output. 20:39:12 ah! 20:40:38 olsner: oh actually LC_ALL takes precedence over the rest, so just set that. 20:40:51 `ord áºáºáº 20:40:53 7821 7821 7821 20:41:23 actually, I don't mind if weird localized people get broken results, they should just learn english and set their locale to C 20:41:37 olsner: bleh. 20:41:44 (that was a norwegian bleh, mind you.) 20:41:51 boily: are you weird and localized? 20:42:18 olsner: définitivement. 20:42:26 -!- Bike has joined. 20:42:36 boily: förträffligt 20:43:24 the approximants. they disagree with my tongue. 20:43:43 what approximants 20:45:04 wbike 20:45:13 hoerjan 20:45:40 right. approximants in Danish, weird vowels in Swedish, and I'm confused by the nynorsk/bokmÃ¥l dichotomy. 20:45:55 looking at the grep man page, it actually describes this [a-z] weirdness quite explicitly. 20:46:47 nynorsk has slightly more interesting vowels. 20:48:18 I think förträffligt starts with [fœ̞ˈʈ] 20:48:34 for example, en:the arabs = bm:araberne = nn:arabarane 20:49:57 = dk:araberne = sv:arabarna , MAYBE 20:50:10 sv:araberna 20:50:20 oh. 20:50:30 su:? 20:51:37 and while we're at it, do we have a local Iceland representant? 20:52:03 not that i know of. 20:52:23 boily: I don't know what the Sundanese word is 20:52:44 shocking 20:52:49 sundanese? 20:53:07 ~duck sundance 20:53:07 Sundance Resort is a ski resort located 13 miles northeast of Provo, Utah on Mount Timpanogos in Utah's Wasatch Range. 20:53:17 Bike: ↑ 20:53:24 of course 20:53:29 but I do know that sundanese is one of those languages that calls itself bahasa/basa something 20:53:37 boily: also re approximants: rødgrød med fløde 20:54:05 oerjan: the canonical approximant shibboleth. 20:54:09 yep 20:55:06 also swedish has the sje-sound. 20:55:18 oh, the curvy-taily h. 20:56:16 we have [œ̃], which even metropolitan French has lost. 20:56:24 and many norwegian dialects, including mine, have the "thick" l (it's also in some swedish.) 20:56:37 oerjan: thick l, as in Klingon? 20:56:51 and both norwegian and swedish are full of retroflexes. 20:57:14 boily: i am not familiar with the klingon pronunciation. 20:57:22 `quote klingon 20:57:24 923) as long as you're in company where no-one knows both, you can always say either "that's just like welsh ll" or "that's just like klingon tlh" 20:57:53 i don't think norwegian thick l is close to either of them. 20:58:01 is this the thick l? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_lateral_approximant 20:58:09 it's a retroflex lateral flap, or something like that. 20:59:57 * boily does «lll... llllll... *choke* ghlllll...» 21:00:04 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 21:00:21 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retroflex_flap apparently it is 21:00:40 it sounds very un-/É­/-like... 21:01:03 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_phonology#Consonants lists both your and the flap and says they're allophones. 21:01:11 *yours 21:01:19 wait 21:01:21 I'd consider the retroflex flap the thick one 21:01:31 the one I linked is just an l I think 21:02:19 well, the one you linked is the one you'd expect from -rl- sandhi in a dialect which has retroflexes but _not_ the genuine flap. 21:03:21 hmm, yeah, it should be according to the text, but the sample didn't sound very 'rl'y 21:03:21 ah, i think i use it instead of the flap in some positions, like "forlag". 21:03:34 seems Québec French and Japanese are the only (at least semi-major) languages which have unvoiced vowels. 21:05:17 elliott: you are conal. 21:06:08 elliott: you are also completely insane. 21:06:32 editting those quotes by hand reveals a *lot* of information on y'all. 21:07:02 what is revealed about i, bike 21:07:47 eeeeh... I recall reformatting your quotes earlier today. vaguely. 21:08:12 you are Bike, I guess. also, I nobody should touch your eyes again. last time was scary. 21:08:23 s/, I n/, n/ 21:08:35 Bike: your complete disregard of english grammar 21:08:38 dan 21:08:39 g 21:08:59 is it revealed that i should do my vhdl assignment 21:09:14 Bike: disregard vhdl, acquire insanity. 21:09:51 i was already reading about auditory hallucinations earlier!! 21:10:01 who said that 21:10:44 `quote hallucinations 21:10:46 No output. 21:10:50 `quote auditory 21:10:51 No output. 21:11:01 `quote hearing things 21:11:03 No output. 21:11:17 it seems we have nothing on this topic 21:11:33 maybe you hallucinated it? 21:11:42 not... i wasn't reading them /here/ 21:12:20 well, if it was hallucinated you didn't really read at all, anywhere 21:15:07 `run echo "You are just imagining this wisdom entry." >wisdom/hallucination 21:15:11 No output. 21:16:11 i said auditory 21:16:15 gosh. 21:16:24 Bike: the wisdom *is* auditory. 21:16:40 when boily gets finished with it, anyway. 21:18:53 oerjan: just went through elliott's quotes. the pdf is updated. that was one hardcore reformatting session. 21:19:00 auditory wisdom will have fun with `? szoup 21:19:12 igen. 21:19:17 * boily szmackzs olsner with a wooden laddle. 21:19:31 ~duck igen 21:19:31 --- No relevant information 21:19:59 oerjan: igen! igen? jag missade första gÃ¥ngen isÃ¥fall 21:20:20 itt swedish-hungarian puns 21:20:30 oh. 21:20:49 Roujo: t'as pas un jeu de mots poche avec du hongrois à travers qui traine dans le coin, par hasard? 21:21:34 something about words for traversing a train of coins? 21:21:50 boily: i recommend using something with "harmadik" 21:21:59 ~duck harmadik 21:21:59 --- No relevant information 21:22:25 oerjan: I think I missed the hungarian part of that pun 21:23:53 olsner: «jeu de mots»: pun. «poche»: sl. of bad quality. «à travers»: sl. through, mixed in. «traine»: to be left about. «coin»: corner, random place, spot. 21:24:03 olsner: igen, hogy ezt tetted. 21:24:11 `quote hogy 21:24:13 33) `translatefromto hu en Hogy hogy hogy ami kemeny How hard is that 21:24:36 the szoup quote was harder to find than I expected because it fails to even mention the hungarian word for soup 21:25:03 olsner: ...because that is the one word i replaced XD... 21:26:05 -!- Taneb has changed nick to Ngevd. 21:26:32 -!- Ngevd has changed nick to Taneb. 21:27:21 -!- boily has quit (Quit: La banane est un fruit nocturne.). 21:27:24 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:27:56 `? banana 21:27:58 banana? ¯\(°_o)/¯ 21:27:59 | 21:27:59 o/`¯º 21:29:21 elliott: you de-voiced me 21:29:39 it seems hungarian now only wants two hogy in that sentence 21:30:20 i am uncertain about the hogy in my answer above, too. 21:30:57 of course the joke, back then, was that hogy is a grammatical word with several different meanings. 21:31:19 well, part of it, anyway. 21:31:27 "hogy hogy hogy hogy" gives me "how to make" 21:31:35 but any more than that is just "that that that that that..." 21:31:58 i got "how to make it" 21:32:09 statistical translation is pretty funny... Google used to translate Latin "quid pro quo" as "What happens in Vegas" 21:32:39 oh wait, the capitalization was different 21:32:59 kmc: heh that almost makes some kind of sense 21:35:28 A harmadik ember is apparently the correct translation of a certain film title. 21:36:22 http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E2%80%9EHarmadik_ember%E2%80%9D-%C3%A9rv 21:36:49 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/WWII.png http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4f/WWI-re.png 21:37:07 it's weird how one-sided the world wars both look 21:37:16 what? 21:37:23 oh, the powers 21:37:38 yes 21:37:57 why is burma labeled as axis but not france? 21:38:52 oversight, i guess 21:39:08 same with ethiopia, etc etc. 21:41:03 um that's thailand, not burma. 21:41:26 and ethiopia was invaded by italy. 21:41:33 as was libya. 21:41:34 I guess the blue dots are countries that got invaded and occupied by the Axis during the war? 21:41:37 looks less one-sided then 21:41:47 god damn it, do i seriously not still have southeast asia straight ;_; 21:41:51 was there much action in South America, or the southern half of Africa? 21:42:04 oerjan, no, that's burma 21:42:11 Madagascar got invaded by the British 21:42:11 no oerjan's right 21:42:15 he is 21:42:23 they both look the same except mirrored! 21:42:25 burma just has a dot 21:42:30 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:42:30 what. 21:42:38 also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeppelin_LZ_104#Africa_flight 21:42:42 (WW I naturally) 21:43:01 anyway this thing counts manchuria as axis too, so i don't get the difference between "axis" and "occupied" 21:43:15 i guess you could say ethiopia and manchuria were invaded before the war, but that's kinda arbitrary 21:43:23 manchuria was — right 21:43:41 it's not particularly, where else do you draw the line 21:44:02 well it's more about where you draw the line of when the war started, no? 21:44:08 right that's what i meant 21:44:16 some people count the sino-japanese war as part of wwii, and so on 21:44:48 Bike: you can claim you were confused by bangladesh not being a separate country 21:45:09 never actually realised burma and bangladesh shared a border 21:45:24 oerjan: no, i really should have this straight by now, it's pathetic. 21:45:31 Phantom_Hoover: burma is very mean to bangladeshi migrants. 21:46:00 and also people who are de facto burmese but they say are bangladeshi sooooo 21:46:48 hey, _someone_ has to do the job of breaking the illusion that buddhists are more peaceful than muslims. 21:46:52 that bangladesh is bad enough that people want to leave for burma doesn't really surprise me, but it's still a grim juxtaposition 21:47:14 "By 1941 it became illegal, among other things, to ridicule those who attempted to promote national customs" sounds enforceable 21:47:41 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:47:55 oerjan: that's... one way to think about it :V 21:48:58 Phantom_Hoover: bangladesh turns back refugees from arakan too. it's kind of shitty all around! 21:49:39 hm, maybe my problem is that arakan looks kind of like thailand 21:49:39 that doesn't surprise me either (even before i found my way to the wp page on the rohingya) 21:50:38 with that little spiny outpost in the lower right, i mean, except thailand's is more curvy 21:50:51 well, i guess burma looks like that too. 21:50:54 anyway. pathetic 21:59:28 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 22:04:54 -!- Bike has joined. 22:09:21 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 22:10:21 `run echo Test *test* test 22:10:23 Test testing test 22:10:27 Roujo: ^ 22:10:51 Roujo: it only worked the first time because you hadn't made the testing file yet 22:12:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:12:58 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:13:13 -!- Koen_ has joined. 22:14:07 hello, future oerjan <-- hi 22:14:44 hey! 22:14:49 so how was the future? 22:14:53 boring 22:14:54 :O 22:14:59 oh 22:15:05 we can call it the past now then 22:15:07 i feel let down. 22:15:30 Bike: so i take it you've been lobbied against then 22:15:35 Bike: i haven't got to your real abuse yet, will probably punish you afterwards 22:15:49 D: 22:16:03 what happened 22:16:26 i don't know, i haven't got to it yet 22:16:27 the empire of bike happened 22:16:31 it ws glorious 22:17:44 oh so you're still the future oerjan 22:17:54 it's not in the past yet 22:19:02 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:19:24 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:23:15 Bike: looks like it was cut short 22:23:41 well, elliott gave me op back for some reason. 22:23:46 but the empire's spirit was dead by then. 22:24:03 the ghost of empires past 22:24:11 * Bike weeps for his power 22:24:29 ...ok now i'm imagining a christmas carol with scrooge replaced by hitler. 22:24:52 Ok then... 22:25:51 `run WeLcOmE OriginalOldMan | rainbow 22:25:54 ​OrIgInAlOlDmAn: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 22:26:21 Whoa 22:26:42 that was a particularly light choice of colors today 22:27:09 `run relcome OriginalOldMan | rainbow 22:27:12 ​OriginalOldMan: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:27:21 hm 22:27:28 `cat bin/relcome 22:27:29 ​#!/bin/sh \ welcome "$@" | rainbow 22:27:30 was hoping for something more disastrous 22:28:14 shachaf: rainbow is designed to potentially fill up the line with color chars, so repeating it should have little effect 22:28:33 oh wait 22:29:06 * shachaf waits 22:29:07 `run echo Testing | rainbow | rainbow #This might work 22:29:09 ​1208T07e05s14ti14n08g10 22:29:12 yep 22:29:22 Yes, that's the kind of thing I was hoping to see. 22:29:40 "Testing" is too short for rainbow to fill up the line with colors 22:29:57 `run ? Bike | rainbow | rainbow 22:30:00 ​06B1i06ke11 8is4 f10r2o8m13 06Lu2xe11m02b4o08u09rg11. 22:30:06 cool 22:30:13 since it doesn't do redundant color changes in sequence 22:30:23 `run ? Bike | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow | rainbow 22:30:26 ​0507B02ik089e098 i140s 610f14ro028m 1213L1107u409xe0305mb11o034u08rg04.403 22:30:27 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v Bike. 22:30:28 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 22:30:29 is there a power operation in bash 22:30:35 what happened 22:30:41 god is here 22:30:45 `run echo $((2**10)) 22:30:46 1024 22:30:54 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:30:55 i mean composition power. 22:31:02 Bike: it won't get longer once it has filled up the line length (350 bytes) with color codes + original text 22:31:09 kmc: you can't go voicing people like that 22:31:12 why not 22:31:15 it scares the children 22:31:22 we have children here?!?!? fuck 22:31:39 Is elliott a children? 22:31:46 not anymore, by law 22:31:57 everybody flirt with elliott at once 22:32:10 c.c 22:32:21 elliott: Me love you long time. 22:32:29 great flirting, 9.5 / 10 22:32:58 (I may not be the best judge of such things) 22:33:01 elliott, you're a piece of shit and i hate you 22:33:05 kmc, rate me on my negging 22:33:11 Bike: i don't think so, it doesn't seem particularly useful 22:33:23 PH: I think you're supposed to be more subtle than that 22:33:26 oerjan: it's useful for rerererererainbowing! 22:33:45 not sure PUAs understand the concept of "subtlety" 22:33:52 or the concept of uh. anything 22:34:00 like “Me, I like a girl with a couple extra pounds on her†? 22:34:00 PUA? 22:34:07 nothing wrong with that PH 22:34:17 let's not talk about PUA though 22:34:19 that's just depressing 22:34:22 good plan 22:34:27 i was relying on elliott to get the reference 22:34:29 he has failed me 22:34:30 with my voice, i make it law 22:34:30 I think I agree with kmc 22:34:36 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: -v Bike. 22:34:40 oerjan: Proto-Uto-Aztecan language 22:34:44 uh wow!! 22:35:04 Well, I suppose if I'm going to flirt with elliott I should determine how androphilic he is. 22:35:17 elliott: On a scale of 1 to 10, how much do you like the cock? 22:35:37 i happen to know elliott likes coq 22:37:32 oh so that's what it means. 22:37:59 yes. it means cock 22:38:12 `thanks Bike 22:38:14 Thanks, Bike. Thike. 22:39:28 also, i have a hunch elliott doesn't like this subject, so let's talk about prepromorphisms or something. 22:39:44 Phantom_Hoover: have you tried possing instead 22:39:48 * kmc makes a note to use the word "androphile" more often 22:39:49 i hear it's p. good 22:39:59 also, i'm hungry -> 22:40:27 (the joke was that it was an excerpt from a lyttle lytton entry, hth) 22:40:50 * Bike stuffs Phantom_Hoover into a locker 22:41:18 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Quit: Page closed). 22:42:16 my friend was trying to think of single straight guys he knows in New York but I think by "straight" he meant "interested in women" and by "single" he meant "available" 22:42:33 lol 22:43:04 kmc: So, *not* excluding bi guys then. 22:43:09 yeah 22:45:10 there's that tshirt "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" 22:45:49 -!- copumpkin has joined. 22:46:12 it's funny how five years ago I hadn't heard of any one being bi but today nearly a third of my friends say they are 22:46:19 heh 22:46:34 different friends or the same ones as five years ago? 22:46:44 entranced by your organs no doubt 22:46:59 Bike: Oh baby, gimme some more of that liver. 22:47:05 c.c 22:47:13 are you suggesting I might have accessed a different social circle recently? 22:47:38 pikhq: shower your lymph all over me 22:48:07 Koen_: social circles do tend to shift over time, yeah 22:48:25 I'm just wondering if the trend is people you already knew telling you they're bi, or you meeting new people, or both 22:48:43 are you truly the same person you were five years ago 22:48:47 imo that's the real question 22:49:10 kmc I think the trend is that more people are bi today than five years ago 22:49:31 a lot of my friends have at least /some/ interest in both directions... whether or not to self-identify as bi based on that is pretty personal and arbitrary 22:49:40 also maybe my friends are (in average) older than my friends were (in average) five years ago, and thus have more sexual experience 22:49:45 imo self-identification considered harmful 22:49:45 mm 22:50:10 well I had never thought that age might just be it 22:50:35 I had a feeling it was somewhat more fashionable to be bi today than it was before 22:50:48 that's a loaded way to put it 22:50:59 but maybe, yeah 22:51:17 another way to put it would be that there's less pressure to hide it now 22:51:32 well that's not exactly saying the same thing 22:52:02 it's not 22:52:08 I once heard someone say that there was effectively less pressure, and that saying it had anything to do with being fashionable was highly homophobic 22:52:26 I don't know, I still get the feeling that there's just as much negativity as there used to be... 22:52:38 it really depends on the context 22:52:41 but there's also more resistance Fiora 22:52:42 who you interact with 22:52:54 bisexual people still "get all the fun", are "sex fiends", are "just trying to look good for the guys", or just plain don't exist 22:53:22 there's that tshirt "I'm not gay but my boyfriend is" 22:53:49 "Look good for the guys" ohhh my 22:53:54 when you say "just trying to look good for the guys" are you talking about bi people in general or about "lesbians pretending to be somewhat available to guys"? 22:53:55 my first response to this was 'ah i get it, the wearer is female' then i realised why that was stuped 22:53:58 *stupid 22:54:06 Koen_: I'm not sure it's inherently homophobic to say there's an element of fashion to it, but as soon as you start telling people that their self-identification X is wrong and they're just doing it for reason Y, that's pretty dangerous ground 22:54:16 Koen_: the stereotype that bisexual women are actually straight girls trying to look "hot" 22:54:18 Koen_: about bi women being described as being straight women pretending to be bi because men think it's hot 22:54:25 ohhhhhh okay 22:54:25 Koen_: Probably more hetero women pretending to be somewhat available to girls, because "lesbians are hawt" 22:54:34 yes right 22:54:38 I mean, some of them are, though 22:54:43 it's more about applying that stereotype to all bisexual people 22:54:54 also, you don't have to be that sexually attracted to someone to have fun making out with them 22:54:55 it's still very common and generally results in bi women getting flak from both straight /and/ gay women 22:54:57 kmc: well I just observed that all girl friends I had who said they were bi happened to have a boyfriend 22:55:30 though I guess statistically for bi girls there are more boyfriends available than girlfriends 22:55:38 it's not, like, fraudulant to make out with someone you don't want to fuck 22:55:53 plz turn in makeout license 22:56:00 Yup, the dating pool for bi people is weighted as heck. 22:56:01 Koen_: sexual interest is different from relationship interest, too 22:56:10 aw 22:56:20 are you suggesting they might be cheating on their boyfriend? 22:56:21 Koen_: also, if they have a girlfriend but say they're bi, they will probably attract quite a bit more unwanted interest 22:56:50 because men take "I am bi and have a girlfriend" as code for "I want a man" 22:57:15 -!- ^v has joined. 22:57:17 Koen_: it's not cheating if he's OK with it 22:57:35 Koen_: but it's also fine to identify as sexually interested in women, without currently having your hand in someone's vagina 22:57:53 it's also okay to call yourself bisexual even if you've /never had sex/ 22:57:55 pikhq: actually I have always wondered how it was possible that so many gay friends of mine had boyfriends - I mean my gay friend in couple / gay friend not in couple is higher than my straight male friend in couple / straight male friend ratio 22:58:13 though statistically it should be easier for a straight guy to find a girlfriend 22:59:05 kmc: I beg to differ, a lot of guys are not ok when they don't currently have their hand or other body part in someone's vagina 22:59:10 heh 22:59:15 *snerk* 22:59:30 Maybe there's more to it than just dating pool size though. 23:01:19 maybe your friends who are gay don't feel the need to advertise this fact to you unless they're dating a guy 23:01:41 "Have I mentioned I'm gay today?" :) 23:01:41 oh 23:01:59 pikhq: yeah I felt very weird when I learned my cousin was gay 23:02:24 Fiora: imo what's with the "men do X" thing 23:02:52 pikhq: because I was so surprised not to know that already 23:04:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 23:05:37 kmc: I hadn't thought about that 23:07:06 the use of the term "cheating" to describe any non-monogamous situation really pisses me off... cheating = lying, breaking rules, etc. 23:07:23 if everyone involved is aware of what's happening and is okay with it, /that's not cheating/ 23:07:24 Yeah. 23:07:27 this happens more often than you might expect 23:07:39 Fiora: it's also okay to call yourself bisexual even if you've /never had sex/ <<< I realize I would never call myself anything anyway so that wouldn't apply 23:07:55 of course as a society we make an exception for "single" men, who are allowed to sleep around as much as they want without it being "cheating" 23:08:02 There is a term for "uninterested in sex" FWIW. :P 23:08:21 kmc: as far as I know I have exactly one friend who's into that 23:08:43 (either that or other friends want to keep that a secret) 23:09:09 * pikhq is also some sort of non-monogamous... 23:09:32 I have remarkably few personal secrets... 23:09:40 keeping secrets is too much effort 23:09:44 I'm kinda bad at 'em. 23:09:47 plus secretly (!) I like to brag 23:09:56 kmc: also note that "non-monogamous" implies one man and several women, not the other way around 23:10:08 Koen_: no, it definitely does not 23:10:15 wait 23:10:25 that is a traditional meaning of the word "polygamy" yeah 23:10:29 did you just break what I knew about vocabulary? :( 23:10:29 not the only meaning, either 23:10:33 but I would avoid that word for that reason 23:10:36 (and for others) 23:11:01 -gamy is the a suffix for "marriage"... 23:11:07 when I was in highschool we had a Nigerian teacher who came to talk about the differences between France and Niger 23:11:24 polygyny, Koen_ 23:11:26 he began by introducing himself and ended by answering our questions 23:11:30 It just happens that people think multiple women when discussing non-monogamous things. 23:11:30 you're thinking of polygyny 23:11:33 (another reason to not keep secrets: I'm in a position due to various privileges and life circumstances to say "fuck 'em" to the people who would hate me for these things, rather than being afraid of them) 23:11:39 he's introduction included "I'm monogamous" 23:11:52 so one of the question was "is having several wives legal in Niger?" 23:12:00 yes "polygyny" and "polyandry" are specific anthropological terms 23:12:16 to which the teacher answered by explaining why that was okay and why the student shouldn't be shocked 23:12:23 "graph minor isomorphic to K_5" less used in the literature 23:12:29 then the student asked, "is it legal for a woman to have several husbands in Niger?" 23:12:36 the teacher was very shocked 23:12:45 "HOW WOULD THAT MAKE ANY SENSE" 23:13:01 Did somebody say "gangbang"? 23:13:07 you, just now 23:13:12 \o/ 23:13:28 people have double standards about practically *everything* involving sex and relationships 23:13:32 myndzi why hast thou forsaken us 23:13:32 it's kind of remarkable 23:14:12 sometimes the double standards are clearly in the interests of the patriarchy 23:14:15 sometimes they are just baffling 23:16:06 Sex in general is best described as "complicated". 23:16:18 award for most fatuous statement goes to 23:16:45 -!- Bike has joined. 23:16:59 I can never hope to understand it 23:18:08 pikhq: yeah... but I would much rather have the complications that come from people actually feeling strongly about each other, over the complications that come from following arbitrary rules that never made any sense to me or the people i'm with 23:18:09 Phantom_Hoover: pikhq just has too short nick 23:18:20 to me these are fairly different in kind 23:19:10 I will probably not understand why monogamy is such a compelling default to most of the population... but the same goes for theism, and lots of other things 23:19:30 of course people are plenty bad at actually following the rules of monogamy, or of your theistic religion of choice 23:21:23 depends on "the population". historically (institutionalized) polygyny has been more common than monogamy 23:21:29 that's true 23:21:32 historically and worldwide. w/e. 23:21:50 I mean among people I'm generally pretty close to culturally 23:23:09 yeah i just felt like mentioning that. 23:23:21 since it moves you to cultural norms rather than "human norms". 23:23:43 kmc: maybe at least to me the appeal comes from the idea of like, having a person you can cling to and rely on and know they'll be there, and you'll be there for them, and that you'll always be their priority? 23:24:33 "i'll never understand theism" is a pretty internet atheisty statement to me tbh 23:25:31 it's a little easy to shrug off monogamy when you feel like you can get through all of life's challenges on your own, but not everyone feels that way... 23:25:34 I'll never understand why people have war over religions 23:25:43 they don't, generally. 23:25:53 any more than the pig war was about a pig. 23:26:01 hth. 23:26:49 also holy christ circuit design programs are complicated, fucking hell 23:27:03 as in ones for drawing circuits? 23:27:10 verilog 23:27:18 ah 23:27:41 this is the program that i had to download as a five GB tarball, have i mentioned that here 23:27:52 verilog sounds really cool to me but i've never really gotten into it 23:29:05 Koen_, when did you stop being arc btw 23:29:11 right now i'm doing the super cool circuit design of "connecting a switch to a light" 23:29:22 -!- CADD has joined. 23:30:01 Phantom_Hoover: I was Arc_Koen because there was that guy on freenode who owned the Koen nick 23:30:03 "If using the DEPP interface uncomment lines 25-28" hoping this had to do with johnny 23:30:17 but I've recently decided I was the real Koen and didn't needed the Arc_ 23:30:32 is koen cognate with koan 23:30:34 -!- Solain has joined. 23:30:43 what's koan? 23:30:51 the zen thing, one assumes 23:31:13 what is the sound of one word cognating 23:32:12 i should probably find an emacs mode and ditch this thing 23:34:03 Fiora: yeah, good point... I don't feel like I can get through life's challenges alone, and I depend on a wonderful committed partner all the time 23:34:28 but it would also be totally unfair of me to expect her and her alone to satisfy all of my physical and emotional needs 23:34:34 (or vice versa) 23:34:39 in fact I think the stress of doing so would destroy our relationship 23:35:08 so I'm very glad that neither of us feels any pressure for that to be the case 23:35:11 I guess sex makes it compliated -_- 23:35:23 I think it's complicated either way, but yeah 23:35:35 but that's the whole physical needs thing right 23:35:41 sure but it's not only about that 23:35:42 well he said "emotional needs" 23:35:46 yep 23:36:06 i feel as tht i shouldnt be seeing be in this irc in this time of the night 23:36:12 *here 23:36:20 you can deal w/it 23:36:21 don't think monogamy entails exclusivity over 'emotional needs' really 23:36:40 yeah... I was thinking the same 23:36:41 that depends on who you ask 23:36:47 and what exactly you mean 23:36:48 but I guess ... yeah 23:36:56 "emotional cheating" is definitely a thing people talk about 23:37:03 facebook cyber-flirting 23:37:03 «If using the DEPP interface uncomment lines 25-28» have so little idea of what i'm doing 23:37:07 er wrong paste 23:37:10 twitter ultra-sexing 23:37:15 that's... emotional cheating? 23:37:18 well i don't understand that either, so assume i don't know anything about anything. 23:37:20 Bike: you better uncomment it 23:37:24 that is a fairly narrow use of the term 23:38:05 anyway most people would say that marriage is about more than sex, so I would assume they think monogamy is about more than sexual exclusivity too? 23:38:18 but the whole thing makes me go a bit :psyduck: 23:38:47 I guess it's about guaranteeing that both people will always view the other as their primary care and responsibility, emotionally and otherwise...? 23:39:01 I don't know, socially-defined constructs like that based around sex confuse me 23:41:04 start with two files. build. end with forty files and six subdirectories. 23:41:07 kmc, i think they probably mean you're meant to be emotionally invested in your partner, not rely on them exclusively 23:41:22 Bike, are the files archives 23:41:38 by the way I don't mean to imply that arrangements with only two people are bad or wrong (for anyone, or for myself) 23:41:41 nope 23:41:51 i don't know what most of them are, in fact. 23:42:11 for example, a .xrpt. 23:42:13 you can have such arrangements without having a rigid external rule that this is the only acceptable way to do anything ever 23:42:33 oh, it's "Xml RePorT" 23:42:34 excuse me for interupting your conversetion, but i found the medical expretise which consults bones and muscles, its called "orthopedics" in english. you can find more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthopedic_surgery; we have a more accurate name in hebrew though 23:42:46 BONES 23:42:49 CASH FOR BONES 23:42:55 MUSCLES FOR BONES 23:43:37 wow this is the pinout as csv 23:43:39 thanks 23:43:54 Solain: why are you telling us this 23:43:59 "T8,sw,IOB,IO_L31N_GCLK30_D15_2,INPUT,LVCMOS25*,2,,,,NONE,,UNLOCATED,NO,NONE," 23:44:01 Solain, you could've just asked us... 23:46:10 Huh, Solain is back 23:46:11 Heya 23:46:31 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:46:36 [19:37:10] twitter ultra-sexing 23:46:37 what 23:46:40 -!- Bike has joined. 23:46:48 Roujo: totally not a thing I just made up 23:47:19 I mean, if we're talking about cheating, I'm pretty sure twitter ultra-sexing applies 23:47:27 "$2.77 × 10^15 + $3.99 shipping" yay amazon 23:47:34 Like, basic cheating. Not emotional cheating. 23:47:37 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 23:47:43 relationship advice: does following voidsexts constitute cheating 23:47:52 voidsexts? 23:47:59 what if you pixelate out your junk before you twitpic it to a congressman 23:48:13 public void sex(Relationship *arg) 23:48:14 #esoteric should totally write a relationship advice column 23:48:35 Roujo: https://twitter.com/voidsexts 23:48:39 what language uses 'public' that way and also has *-pointers? checkmate 23:48:48 Bike: Failing advice, I gave you some pointers... 23:49:08 boo 23:49:26 Bike: Huh. I don't think it counts, no 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:28] but it would also be totally unfair of me to expect her and her alone to satisfy all of my physical and emotional needs 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:33] (or vice versa) 23:50:40 [19:45:19] [19:34:39] in fact I think the stress of doing so would destroy our relationship 23:50:49 ++ 23:51:05 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:51:06 those insta messeges scared me 23:51:12 i don't think you need to paste three lines just to "++" in the future 23:51:22 Here's a cautionary tail, though 23:51:30 (Bike: There's more coming up) 23:51:36 I have to provide context and all 23:51:39 oh no 23:51:44 But yeah. Cautionary tail of sorts 23:51:56 That's the kind of relationship I build with my SO 23:52:00 "tale" 23:52:05 ... 23:52:08 Right 23:52:11 meow 23:52:14 (I'm tired) 23:52:26 (me2) 23:52:40 "Your SO doesn't have to fill every emotional need you have" 23:52:44 It worked, to a point 23:53:02 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:53:10 It worked well, no pressure and all, until we got to the last few months 23:53:30 When I realized that since I wasn't expecting her to fill any particular need, I found ways to fill them elsewhere 23:53:38 Which put her in a weird position in my mind 23:54:01 SO stands for significant other right? 23:54:05 Yup 23:54:21 I first thought of "soulmate" but that acronym is already taken I reckon 23:54:36 it's SO weird to see that term which i remember from old usenet 23:55:06 It seems that by trying not to put pressure on my SO to fill my needs, I just bypassed her for most of them 23:55:12 mm 23:55:31 So I ended up in a situation where she wasn't my go-to person for any non-physical need 23:56:03 Which lead to a not-so-nice situation where I was wondering what was special between us two 23:56:06 `url quotes 23:56:08 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/quotes 23:56:19 Since most of what I needed, I could find elsewhere - and did 23:56:36 your SO(2) group 23:56:41 Roujo: It worked well, no pressure and all, until we got to the last few months <<< I read that as "we had a countdown-to-separation already in place and we reacting badly to it going under a few months 23:56:46 So yeah. The realization was recent (weeks, really), so I'm still recovering 23:56:55 Rofl =P 23:56:58 Not really, no 23:57:00 We're engaged =P 23:57:54 oh so that's actually a countdown-to-marriage! 23:58:02 I was close 23:58:08 Well, vaguely, yeah 23:58:13 t minus one million seconds 23:58:14 But there's no date yet, so not really 23:58:34 oh, that's eleven days 23:58:36 Anyway. We're still recovering and trying to get back close to one another 23:58:40 congrats on being married in eleven days 23:58:44 Heh =P 23:58:46 Thanks ^^