< 1378512349 402926 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-public < 1378512349 548151 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown command, try @list < 1378512352 57130 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list < 1378512352 202459 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :What module? Try @listmodules for some ideas. < 1378512359 985334 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@list messages < 1378512360 130827 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell provides: tell ask messages messages-loud messages? clear-messages < 1378512364 650547 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1378512364 795830 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 51m 33s ago: Is there a name for those monads which are implementable even if bind can call its continuation at most 1 time? <-- i don't know but the STMonadTrans package < 1378512364 941558 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :refers to those without a name. < 1378512364 941713 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan said 2h 50m 38s ago: or well, i assume it's essentially the same. < 1378512405 691334 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i had to make up a name i would call them affine monads < 1378512414 799085 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably a) a confusing name b) already something else < 1378512423 14355 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonlinear monads < 1378512443 862376 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason I'm interested is because instead of passing in a real continuation, you could pass in, say, a function that resumes a coroutine < 1378512476 183200 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: linear would be even stronger than this, you would have to use it _exactly_ once. < 1378512477 446679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that related to that one thing oleg talks about < 1378512499 13382 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So languages that have first-class coroutines but not first-class continuations can have nice syntax based on that for those monads, if not all monads < 1378512519 784496 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although in imperative languages most of those monads probably aren't that interesting, sadly < 1378512537 309274 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the interesting ones like list can't do the coroutine thing < 1378512555 223352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you describe this property in terms of fmap/join/return < 1378512643 999843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it just a property of fmap < 1378512781 571916 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src join < 1378512781 754161 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :join x = x >>= id < 1378512910 218754 :augur!~augur@ip-64-134-240-172.public.wayport.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378513585 270379 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1378513890 385248 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages-loud < 1378513890 570082 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily said 2d 5h 9m 16s ago: “Automynorcagrammatical” what the fungot... I like that one. < 1378513925 823787 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hugs shachaf  < 1378513937 586535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi copumpkin < 1378513941 693329 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happen < 1378513953 754194 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not that i object to hugz!!) < 1378513962 272434 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody set up us the bomb!! < 1378513983 75090 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1378513991 155267 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you can come visit with edwardk next month < 1378513999 921830 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :he giving another talk or something? < 1378514008 115230 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1378514046 452514 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :man, I'm such an asshole < 1378514049 413608 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never visit < 1378514079 979898 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could come play mölkky with me and kmc! < 1378514149 346266 :copumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :valleypumpkin < 1378514344 318926 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1378514348 905432 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :this marmite isn't going to eat itself < 1378514350 557434 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, can't go < 1378514372 254216 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :h8r < 1378514379 511797 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :no but seriously < 1378514382 686093 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a brand new 500g jar < 1378514392 126491 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have over a month! < 1378514392 690102 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not lying: it really isn't going to eat itself < 1378514400 593176 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :eating marmite is srs bsns < 1378514411 374868 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can bring it here with you. < 1378514417 239638 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no that's the problem < 1378514420 109907 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a crack in the lid < 1378514424 164134 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it leaked in the box < 1378514429 293411 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now means I can't transport it easily < 1378514447 539632 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not for that I'd totally go to CA < 1378514454 191239 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1378514463 327505 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just arrange some marmite for you over here < 1378514471 591041 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ICFP? < 1378514473 303291 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and someone to destroy the old jar < 1378514481 623403 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be just like marmite teleportation < 1378514485 504175 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't be going to ICFP. :-( < 1378514486 254248 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you _sure_ marmite doesn't eat itself, i've heard disturbing things... < 1378514494 561754 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I would know it wasn't _my_ jar < 1378514501 837096 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd break my heart < 1378514504 991606 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :valleypumpkin: no, it'd be extensionally equal < 1378514509 773092 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, my gf just got a new dog! < 1378514522 824094 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :h8r < 1378514532 6676 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, lovr < 1378514539 783218 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was a h8r boi < 1378514547 53777 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :she said see ya sk7r boi < 1378514562 3972 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I shouldn't be misquoting avril on the intarwebz < 1378514600 178040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i 9t as if 2 now < 1378514624 933927 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fuck is going on < 1378514649 257218 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :valleypumpkin: i'm sure you want to play mölkky < 1378514656 216480 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? < 1378514667 624698 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%B6lkky < 1378514676 200972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc can confirm that it's good < 1378514731 753484 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that looks fun < 1378514760 333417 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you and kmc hang out much? < 1378514866 693754 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.tclers.tk/2729 < 1378514884 2695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much is much < 1378514951 970884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? marmite < 1378514954 302410 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :marmite? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1378514954 565008 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69              | < 1378514954 749490 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69            o/`¯º < 1378515012 997960 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: is 4 2 as i s7 rite < 1378515139 690736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn Marmite is a group mind of fungal microorganisms spreading throughout the supermarkets of the Commonwealth. < 1378515144 629585 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1378515260 963696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: wait, what do you know about this. < 1378515261 109922 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or is it just me, or i: yet, you rogue! i'll be right.) still don't cut, and among the rafters. withel regarded it without the cod title on it hard to fiqure out what going, tough one. if we solve it,... < 1378515350 451744 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is copumpkin in The Valley < 1378515516 270259 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1378516123 590825 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1378516458 413447 :valleypumpkin!~textual@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1378516720 972659 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bummer < 1378516733 152136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should invent a way to play mölkky over the internet < 1378516740 506305 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :build some kind of mölkky-bot < 1378516751 313585 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like fun < 1378516761 146273 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first you should make your own mölkky < 1378516801 500314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :MYOM < 1378517760 370603 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats CallForJudgement for not knowing the alphabet -----### < 1378517923 323511 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swaps oerjan for a good overlord < 1378518439 94519 :augur!~augur@ip-64-134-240-172.public.wayport.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1378518555 273632 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.184.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378519723 664452 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run tclsh < 1378519724 900263 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: tclsh: command not found < 1378519727 904095 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1378519877 645946 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I punch someone? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18649855/tcl-how-substitution-occures-in-if-statement/18651365#18651365 < 1378520163 34019 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1378520345 94117 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but there's more than one < 1378520348 497054 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't expect me to know all of them < 1378520414 968720 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«Sorry, but int tcl there is no difference between the string "0" and the value 0.» why, god < 1378520435 803496 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: there isn't in Perl either, it's not that much of a problem < 1378520447 270886 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because strings and ints have entirely different operators for dealing with them < 1378520460 379337 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you god < 1378520463 827019 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you use + it's interpreted as an int, and if you use . (string concatenation) it's interpreted as a string < 1378520465 306241 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: no < 1378520607 309724 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Do you actually know any Tcl? < 1378520611 752690 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: well i think your insistence that o is before n in the alphabet is very unconventional. < 1378520613 940721 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1378520638 490465 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an interesting language in some ways. Not without its flaws, but still interesting < 1378520648 953112 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: if you really want something to complain at, it's that there's no distinction between strings and subroutines < 1378520695 49732 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: you mean between strings and code? Because if I store an argument and body in foo, I can't just call $foo. Wish I could < 1378520732 229828 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: err, yes < 1378520746 392658 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to put it another way, Tcl does everything with eval < 1378520778 27345 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: the eval thing is really what interests me about Tcl, but I'd prefer an eval that operates on stuff that has more information than strings do < 1378520785 23091 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the way Rebol does things < 1378520797 970052 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :some kind of ""symbol"" eh < 1378520816 192121 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not an eval that operates on compiled code? < 1378520834 115699 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, does anyone know a verilog synthesisy thing i can use that isn't the heap i'm supposed to use for class < 1378520847 722357 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because constructing and rearranging compiled code from scratch is difficult? < 1378520854 244235 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build report has a table of contents. it goes on for pages < 1378520871 502436 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for about... 15 lines < 1378520892 407431 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sadly, verilog/VHDL synthesizers tend to be massively target-specific < 1378520894 365356 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suck < 1378520905 751457 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck. < 1378520911 152034 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Icarus Verilog, which is pretty good and non-sucky, but it needs plugins to target specific hardware < 1378520915 853599 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than just compile to VHDL or the like < 1378520922 190011 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those probably aren't available < 1378520933 627445 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, who manufactured your FPGA? < 1378520936 519329 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile to vhdl? aren't vhdl and verilog on the same level < 1378520937 983991 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Digilent < 1378520969 343133 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, they're on the same level < 1378520976 281729 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling to VHDL isn't massively useful < 1378520983 761453 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more or less all you can do unless you have something lower-level to compile to < 1378520992 939660 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :eesh < 1378520994 158099 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the lower-level languages are FPGA-specific and often proprietary < 1378521002 897949 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're like machine code, only nobody will tell you what it means < 1378521004 202965 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: imagine Tcl with lexical scope < 1378521006 791129 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a huge array of 1s and 0s < 1378521010 702354 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if i could figure out how the stupid thing works and have my own tools < 1378521015 992800 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... yeah, the bitfiles look pretty undocumented < 1378521035 414396 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've never used an FPGA by Diligent < 1378521050 371689 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, I've tried Altera and Xilinx, and concluded that Xilinx's development tools suck so badly we can't use them at all < 1378521054 617187 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a semi-local company, i think. mostly educational stuff. < 1378521060 898394 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xilinx is the development tool i'm using! < 1378521063 114404 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaaaaay < 1378521064 276003 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Altera's are quirky and have a bad UI, but at least it works < 1378521084 663604 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i got it working, and that's about all i can about it. < 1378521087 627004 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :until I found a way to avoid having to do it, the worst part was port assignment < 1378521089 92476 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :positively, i mean. < 1378521091 653518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: has someone started a rumor that it's because the lower-level languages all have CIA/NSA backdoors yet? < 1378521115 639208 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you have ports in your code, and you want to assign them to ports on the actual chip < 1378521129 647556 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do this, you have to use a weird editor thing that lets you select the ports from each side from drop-downs < 1378521140 80718 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yeah, that's annoying. < 1378521143 315438 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like 200 possibilities for the port on the chip, and they're in one drop-down box < 1378521151 623630 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait. no, i just wrote a ucf and that worked. < 1378521153 304041 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to select via the mouse, after screenfuls of scrolling < 1378521170 44678 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ucf a xilinx-specific thing. please say no < 1378521170 367892 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyboard doesn't help because they're all "PORT_whatever" and it only autocompletes the first character < 1378521182 730624 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not sure; it doesn't work on the Altera tools, or else I'd use it :( < 1378521187 467459 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaah < 1378521189 766324 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this could be xilinx being specific or altera being ignorant < 1378521206 151911 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks pretty xilinx-specific from google. god damn. < 1378521211 369898 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem with xilinx wasn't the port assignment UI (UCF is fine), but the facts that the ports were all undocumented < 1378521220 793714 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378521224 718358 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after a week of searching we couldn't find enough documentation to figure out which ports to assign < 1378521230 867939 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my professor is related to the company that made the board. maybe i can, like, blackmail him into telling me the bitfile format. < 1378521232 39780 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :including contacting actual people who worked for xilinx and asking < 1378521234 203674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do you even need some GUI and other specific stuff; can't they make some generic FPGA? < 1378521249 244081 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: wait, wait, i'm confused. the ports are on the hardware, yes? < 1378521252 666144 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: they probably could, but they don't because it would cut into their margins < 1378521260 953749 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, but the hardware comes on development boards < 1378521268 64593 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: probably because there hasn't been nearly as big an open hardware as open software movement. < 1378521277 20400 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are hundreds of pins and so you can't connect to them by hand, so you need to use a presoldered board < 1378521280 765197 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: i mean, it's the board manufacturer that should be documenting the ports, not xilinx? < 1378521283 691304 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and xilinx wouldn't give documentation as to what pin connected to what < 1378521287 143054 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think they made the board < 1378521296 282134 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as the FPGA < 1378521299 808037 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1378521312 791711 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, their only officially supported way to use the board was to use a closed-source addon module with a crazy configuration wizard < 1378521315 600461 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks, from digilent i got actual schematics, in addition to the manual < 1378521328 484924 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that went and synthesized a CPU with a custom bus pattern for communicating with the rest of your circuit onto the FPGA < 1378521335 734794 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm still not sure which port is the PCM but whatever) < 1378521338 267265 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: jesus christ. < 1378521348 61015 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now we can't just GPIO, we have to deal with all this abstraction nonsense < 1378521405 18299 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, i don't know, am i doing this weird? what i do is write some verilog, put it in xilinx's stupid "project" crap, hit build, wait five minutes, a bitfile comes out, and then i use a digilent thing (outside of xilinx) to program the fpga with the bitfile. < 1378521445 968434 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can, like, just have some bitfiles around and use digilent's nice commandline interface to put them on the board, without launching xilinx destroyer of worlds < 1378521462 238285 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: no, that's actually a much saner workflow than normal < 1378521472 240437 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the "five minutes" part < 1378521484 261074 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite common for me to have dinner for my supervisor while waiting for things to compile < 1378521486 756859 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you serious. < 1378521492 289532 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK < 1378521506 316949 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: here, see http://www.veritygos.org/documentation < 1378521516 185795 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the section "Compiling for synthesis, on an already supported architecture" < 1378521530 209473 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is your thing, right? < 1378521540 274767 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verity's my hardware language, yes < 1378521547 343262 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of that section is about setting up the Altera tools correctly < 1378521566 741734 :nooodl!~nooodl@81.241.175.225 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1378521568 951957 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if they made a generic open source FPGA, they could compete with the other FPGA companies successfully < 1378521590 585307 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :steps 1, 3, 4, 9 are mine, the rest is Quartus fiddling < 1378521596 983324 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, that documentation is old, we found an easier way < 1378521607 250033 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For the libraries provided with the compiler, use the following configuration: disable all the checkbox options apart from Clock, Button x 4, 7-Segment x 8, Switch x 18, and leave all the other options at their defaults. < 1378521611 602264 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :" :| < 1378521611 873724 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the workflow now is that we get the Altera-provided tools to create a project < 1378521629 152645 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then get our own compiler to overwrite carefully chosen parts of it with our own provided files < 1378521640 156248 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: wouldn't the main problem be that custom ICs don't come cheap (disclaimer i know shit-all about fpga) < 1378521640 438987 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that cuts out steps 10 and 11 < 1378521652 210275 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: this is scary. < 1378521652 355698 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and 9 < 1378521663 889773 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Yes I know it can be expensive < 1378521666 383146 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you just specify a path to the project as an argument to the compiler < 1378521677 345988 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yes < 1378521682 770723 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, maybe i'll just ask my professor about this < 1378521688 67844 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it holds a possibly unique position in the history of hardware synthesis < 1378521690 217666 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean he liked xilinx but god this is silly < 1378521702 715153 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have, on record, someone quote as saying that they followed the instructions and it worked first time < 1378521707 364500 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*quoted < 1378521709 407897 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow i doubt i can convince a professional that this is silly, but still!! < 1378521720 64343 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: "had to put 'em through a polygraph just to be sure" < 1378521747 684970 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I know I would buy it, and I think there are other people that would buy it too. < 1378521773 411234 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the problem is that the business model used by FPGA manufacturers at the moment is to make the FPGAs cheaply (so that they can be placed in products), then charge very large amounts for the development tools < 1378521775 392434 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, you need capital to start with. < 1378521787 939312 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and... yeah, lots of resistance here. < 1378521802 483333 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing that people will never be able to program them on their own < 1378521810 622487 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :both Xilinx and Altera gave us copies free, though < 1378521820 915160 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xilinx has a free thing i'm using. < 1378521827 504952 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt i could do anything hardcore with it, but. < 1378521833 149733 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and i still had to do some dumb "licensing" thing. < 1378521844 412258 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically because if you can credibly say "we're doing research into a new way to compile programs onto FPGAs", they both care about it working with their product < 1378521844 557831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they earn or lose money on FPGA sales? < 1378521853 25770 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I suspect they earn money but with small margins < 1378521904 827684 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, lessee. the cheapest board usable with my class is fifty bucks for students, and eighty nine otherwise < 1378521928 383822 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. The boards are Digilent but built around a Xilinx FPGA. < 1378521931 868020 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not good at this, sorry. < 1378521981 189984 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Diligent have probably found a gap in the market: buy other people's FPGAs, make development boards for them that aren't a nightmare to program < 1378522004 53402 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sometimes takes us like an hour just to get the cable connected correctly between the computer and FPGA < 1378522006 977986 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1378522009 305253 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which wouldn't seem to be difficult because it's a USB cable < 1378522016 534751 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :digilent is education bent, so that would definitely make sense < 1378522030 870720 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes it just doesn't work for no obvious reason < 1378522045 995152 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think they provide some kind of library api i should probably look at < 1378522106 517871 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: That may be the business model, but if others make it the other business model (don't provide development tools at all; only documentation), then they can compete with the others seriously rather than just being another minor FPGA manufacturer. < 1378522111 628777 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By accepting this license, you agree that you will not modify, adapt, decompile, reverse engineer, translate, or otherwise attempt to discover the source code for the Software" well, time to void a warranty < 1378522186 792441 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: anyway, the other frustration right now is that during build xilinx lists some "command lines" but i don't even know where the actual programs are, which would be nice because i could use the same programs but from emacs or something < 1378522217 57381 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: oh no, don't try that, seriously < 1378522221 917886 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1378522225 931116 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT it's some custom cygwin-based monstrosity < 1378522231 620236 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for god's sake. < 1378522249 939589 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then provide volume discounts instead of making the chips less expensive and the software really expensive. < 1378522260 341360 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it's still cygwin-based on Linux < 1378522268 259549 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope not, but I'm horrified enough at the rest of things that it seems possible < 1378522288 991157 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making me really glad i'm not interested in this field as a thing on its own < 1378522342 875098 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm making me glad that I get to use Verilog/VHDL as a compiler output target < 1378522354 302133 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than having to deal with the horrors of the abstraction levels below < 1378522360 16077 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :grgh. < 1378522414 671990 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's $_ and $# in shell? < 1378522415 363511 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that I can live mostly on simulator, except when we badly need nonzero performance < 1378522423 866151 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the first is just a variable called _ < 1378522431 985031 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second probably does something, I'm not sure tohugh < 1378522458 673245 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$# is the number of arguments < 1378522472 853092 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, well this script is using $_ for something. < 1378522489 761895 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ is a perfectly good variable name! < 1378522494 454624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some things I don't like about Verilog/VHDL which is why I was making some of my own ideas and called it "HWPL". One difference from Verilog is that numbers are given in binary by default instead of decimal (you need a prefix for decimal or hex); another is that there is only one I/O port which is a bit vector (and a bit vector can contain some inputs, some outputs, some analog, etc) but any number of macro parameters < 1378522516 742657 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I wanted to think of what features are better for hardware programming language rather than software programming < 1378522521 6386 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: i mean, it doesn't assign it or anything. < 1378522537 62262 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1378522553 116690 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :verilog constants have been annoying me. is something like {28{1'b1}} for 28 1s considered kosher? < 1378522590 118190 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: huh < 1378522595 518338 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran "echo $_", and got "sh" < 1378522599 676041 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh boy. < 1378522602 659698 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo $_ < 1378522604 8426 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash < 1378522608 897027 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I know there are those things, and other things < 1378522614 383000 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I tried to assign to _, ran it again, got the null string < 1378522622 448147 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i ran it in my shell and got "--color=auto". < 1378522626 794058 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the next time I tried that, I got "echo" < 1378522628 810613 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: What is your opinion of feature of hardware programming languages? < 1378522639 941737 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, it appears to be the most recently run command < 1378522644 660645 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "kosher" as in "is this bad programming style only a noob like me would like" < 1378522649 553282 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the most recently used argument of it < 1378522667 758711 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, after running "ps u", $_ had the value "u" < 1378522692 481449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I don't know if it is considered kosher but I wouldn't expect it to matter < 1378522696 959692 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: sadly, I mostly only know VHDL < 1378522702 832722 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I would write (others => '1') < 1378522708 652444 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this does `readlink -f ${$_}` < 1378522713 723651 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i mean, is this considered readable < 1378522714 337125 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Verilog you have there looks like a reasonable translation of it < 1378522737 491465 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: how is vhdl? some of the example files use it and it looks more ... i dunno really < 1378522759 119422 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: To me it is probably the most readable way as far as I can tell < 1378522762 261183 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: apparently, the design goal for VHDL was explicitly "write a hardware description language that is as similar to ADA as possible" < 1378522789 815233 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the language is actually called Ada, but I think VHDL's devs were addicted to allcaps) < 1378522790 158248 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there better hardware programming languages? < 1378522793 440648 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: um... i don't know what to think about that. < 1378522796 973445 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ok. < 1378522800 277232 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there's Verity ;) < 1378522833 853473 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: think declarations that are typically more verbose than the actual definitions, and a very high level of pedantry and accuracy < 1378522843 16633 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: I looked and think that is worse for hardware; I mean one that is very close to hardware rather than having features of software programming < 1378522847 360654 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my professor basically said "most people use verilog, some people use vhdl, a few dipshits use schematics, and there are some other languages who cares" < 1378522848 169270 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but which also makes it very hard to make a typo that isn't caught by the compiler < 1378522857 337184 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: hm hm hm. < 1378522871 175390 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly, it cannot catch logic errors :( < 1378522882 460018 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile, if you make a typo in Verilog, the code will probably still compile and even run < 1378522898 789369 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that's been pissing me off < 1378522947 729391 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's basically the opposite extreme of finickiness < 1378522950 522856 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I don't really like in Verilog is how you need multiple I/O ports instead of just putting it all in one vector, and how calling a module requires the call to have a name < 1378522960 63121 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer VHDL, maybe because I know it and I don't like Verilog < 1378522968 739196 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get figuring how to make submodules. < 1378522970 843017 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: oh, the latter one annoyed me too, until I understood why it is < 1378522975 889671 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically to make debugging even possible < 1378522997 145373 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did think of that, but I still think it is not a good idea < 1378523002 369198 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :having tens of thousands of wires you have to search through is bad enough < 1378523017 943046 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they aren't labelled properly, it's even worse < 1378523019 994006 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least make it optional < 1378523022 168752 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: er, like, rather than having "input [4:0] btn, input [7:0] sw" and so on you just have a single input bus? < 1378523041 228494 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's for a zzoism < 1378523057 814120 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had this discussion a while back; zzo38 wants a feature that's interesting, but mostly specific to his usecase < 1378523060 226427 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1378523063 793075 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's unlikely that anyone will add it < 1378523067 737873 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I mean just a single I/O vector; all inputs and outputs and combined in/out and analog and all that stuff would be part of one vector, and then the parts can be given names < 1378523080 547194 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems weird. < 1378523092 719045 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: No it isn't specific to usecase, really; actually I think it is better feature for hardware programming in general < 1378523117 764267 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: typically, I don't want to do bitshifts by accident < 1378523131 226684 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially, I don't want to bitshift half a variable on top of one variable, and a different half on top of another < 1378523145 832988 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be more useful to be able to route all the bits to signals of my choice individually < 1378523156 998059 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I wonder what you think of Tcl < 1378523162 85787 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's what the "assign" statement of Verilog and the "<=" statement of VHDL already do < 1378523184 387879 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Well, I can give example of what I want in terms of some code of the experimental "HWPL" I made up, it might be something like: < 1378523259 29853 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuing my shell questions, what does «. "$sfn" "$d"» do? < 1378523312 580880 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :MODULE !MAIN() {.THIS,.THAT} BEGIN WIRE .THIS[7:0]; REG .THAT[7:0]; CONNECT .THIS TO .THAT; END; MODULE !MAIN2() {.ALL} BEGIN WIRE .ALL[15:0]; !MAIN() .ALL; END; < 1378523325 505357 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouty < 1378523337 811852 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You would need # before the 7 and 15 though < 1378523350 452184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To indicate they are decimal numbers rather than keywords < 1378523354 461881 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it's basically equivalent to «sh "$sfn" "$d"» except more efficient < 1378523363 445828 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it uses the shell that's already running rather than starting a new one < 1378523367 109572 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Why the new nick? < 1378523374 34240 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: we had a discussion about nicks earlier < 1378523374 393350 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok, that makes sense < 1378523375 697323 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a new nick < 1378523378 765147 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one I rarely use on Freenode < 1378523390 156256 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :last -cl < 1378523392 424181 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1378523394 543695 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :been wondering what thisfile does and it turns out it runs a bunch of crap < 1378523397 494772 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who saw that coming < 1378523459 276686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even something like: WIRE .THIS[#7:0]; REG .THAT[#7:0]; CONNECT {.THIS[#7:#4],.THAT[#7:#4]} TO {.THAT[#3:0],.THIS[#3:0]} WHEN &{.THAT[#2],.THAT[#4],.THAT[#6]}; < 1378523472 922563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know what kind of things I am meaning by that? < 1378523513 12172 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Do you see what some of my ideas are now? < 1378523520 894019 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this shell file says the xilinx stuff won't work if some environment variable related to the linker is set. < 1378523525 492161 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: CONNECT … WHEN strikes me as really unfortunate syntax < 1378523531 53301 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting more and more terrified < 1378523532 904937 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like the variable gets disconnected when the condition's fase < 1378523546 214185 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I warned you to be terrified in advance! < 1378523560 116617 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: What is it then? < 1378523568 864236 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now i'm terrifieder < 1378523570 844810 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*false < 1378523588 150899 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well in VHDL, you're supposed to use a when … when … else chain so that the signal always has a value < 1378523606 341334 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: ion ion ion < 1378523607 258856 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're assigning in a process (i.e. at a clock edge), in which case you use "if" not "when" < 1378523632 265017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: OK, I understand that, but what if one pin is used sometimes for input and sometimes for output? Sometimes there will not have a signal. < 1378523633 105462 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol holy shit this thing fucks up $PATH < 1378523664 208509 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you still have to assign it a value, but you assign it "Z" as the output while it's inputting < 1378523674 546968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that's how it works. < 1378523691 262218 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to say that you're not sourcing or sinking < 1378523757 665246 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, i have found the actually run programs! < 1378523781 268826 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, have an line from Verity's standard library with variables anonymized (mostly because their names are horrific): assign v = (L_ENABLE == `A)? L : {8{1'bz}}; < 1378523791 663767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking to make it the value of a WIRE is automatically Z by default and of a REG is automatically X by default; if you have multiple values connected to something at the same time then it is bus conflict and might damage the hardware. < 1378523829 702389 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: REG is X by default on all systems, which is really annoying < 1378523838 119230 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you simulate the reset, but the reset takes some time to occur < 1378523846 962296 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and typically you don't reset the output of arithmetic operations, just the inputs < 1378523853 914425 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because that'll make the output reset by itself) < 1378523856 337959 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, actually, it's U < 1378523870 417629 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, the synthesizer program is 20K. this does not bode well at all, no no no. < 1378523876 517728 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a special case of X that's used to allow distinguishing between X-due-to-uninitialized and X-due-to-conflict < 1378523885 682866 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: check whether it's a text file < 1378523898 675365 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's an elf < 1378523907 123436 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you on Linux? < 1378523914 621443 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1378523920 655211 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note: I could actually believe that it would be an elf even on Windows) < 1378523931 992917 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering if this is just a wrapper around a cygwin call < 1378523936 236445 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for planting the seeds of doubt!! < 1378523939 896425 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, you can't possibly reset the system fast enough to not get warnings about doing arithmetic on U < 1378523978 922926 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :without adding a bunch of extra circuitry (that ends up in the compiled hardware) purely for the purpose of suppressing the warnings < 1378524004 659172 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the simulator I use (GHDL, which is really ancient at this point) actually has a --ieee-warnings=disable-at-0 for this purpose < 1378524013 59515 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably its dev got annoyed too < 1378524042 314297 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm starting to understand why build takes five minutes. < 1378524072 33986 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, five minutes is fast < 1378524095 390353 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely you're using really lax time constraints (i.e. slow clock) and only utilizing a small part of the board < 1378524106 134737 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can just place the various components down pretty much at random and it still works < 1378524117 82003 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when your utilization goes up, placing/routing becomes really really difficult < 1378524121 138218 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because computers are so bad at it < 1378524131 759564 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they basically try to do it with evolutionary algorithms, which is far from ieal < 1378524133 267579 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ideal < 1378524138 722959 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i get that, but i think a lot of the timing is startup shit, i mea. < 1378524138 870088 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean < 1378524156 647990 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it takes five minutes even if it's a module consisting of "assign led = sw;" < 1378524173 506679 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's quite possibly quite a bit of stdlib on the board < 1378524189 766851 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many warnings do you get for that oneliner? < 1378524193 512058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other ideas I have includes such things as a MORTON built-in acting like INTERCAL's bit interleave operator; SELECT acting like INTERCAL's select although the right operand has to be a static value (the left can be static or dynamic, and that becomes also the type of the result), and some others < 1378524194 465119 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's less than 1000, I'm disappointed < 1378524207 711863 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: meh, SELECT is boring, HOKEY/COKEY is a lot more interesting < 1378524209 534833 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: no warnings, but lots of messages about initializing things to 85°C < 1378524238 673566 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get warnings about things like clocks appearing to be clocks < 1378524256 38806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So something like SELECT(10XZ,#5) is 0Z < 1378524259 311007 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that it went and optimized a component into two different components then back to one < 1378524270 497989 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a serious warning because one of the components seemed to be useless < 1378524282 442594 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that I haven't carefully put time constraints on every single part of the program < 1378524294 536814 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: also, SELECT as a primitive is quite pointless, it works better as a library function < 1378524298 292653 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah my favorite warning so far is that i set a register wrong, so it said it optimized out a flop < 1378524305 154360 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that triggered optimizing out a flop for the next highest bit < 1378524312 462342 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i got a warning for every bit of the register. < 1378524321 829429 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially because different selects might need different timing properties < 1378524328 189230 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like multiplication being a primitive in VHDL and Verilog < 1378524333 510061 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, actually using it is a really bad idea < 1378524338 700858 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement Maybe these things could be, if there is the way to implement it, I suppose; it would help < 1378524345 947726 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a single-cycle multiply is going to take up a huge amount of silicon no matter what < 1378524361 323808 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was surprised that addition is primitive in verilog, even < 1378524363 366438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still I would have in HWPL, the arithmetic operators are static only and cannot be used with dynamic operands < 1378524363 792840 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you're trying to save silicon by doing it in multiple cycles, now you need a library module, not a primitive < 1378524364 95708 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's going on there? < 1378524372 663210 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: fortunately, I believe division isn't < 1378524375 511596 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add, subtract, multiply < 1378524379 104207 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but like, why < 1378524387 495793 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of convenient but it seems like it would be library < 1378524392 774335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there still is timing specifications allowed on all expressions and commands though, with minimum, typical, and maximum < 1378524407 609260 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: partly it's for compile-time array indexing and the like, I guess < 1378524419 975781 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just using it for a counter incrementing every clockk < 1378524433 723277 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my highest coursework marks ever was on a project for writing a parallel sort in VHDL < 1378524441 343569 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, of course, a recursive algorithm < 1378524444 954604 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i might as well ask about semantics; is the addition wraparound? < 1378524456 374098 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, VHDL has an obvious syntax for recursion, but attempting to use it drives most compilers into an infinite loop or crashes them < 1378524464 109099 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice. < 1378524476 508850 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, I had to write a recursive module instantiation entirely with for-generate loops < 1378524503 710252 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I did via putting all the signals into one large vector and doing crazy maths to get everything joined up together < 1378524511 752779 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, addition is wraparound < 1378524520 106861 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually multiplication is the most interesting, because it could be signed or unsigned < 1378524527 778163 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in VHDL, which it is depends on which libraries you import < 1378524536 298930 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing stuff. < 1378524543 749763 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a choice of three: one which makes all arithmetic signed, one where it's unsigned, and one where you use explicit casts to signed or unsigned < 1378524563 703029 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"_ZN4Port10ExecLoader4Util17VCRunTimeDLLCheckEbPKc" starting to regret this < 1378524584 781121 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not so bad < 1378524588 350784 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just C++ name mangling < 1378524596 181851 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i mean, what it's referring to. < 1378524600 200411 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks vaguely like gcc's < 1378524603 527681 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lots of "ExecLoader" in these strings. < 1378524609 751668 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this is a stripped file. < 1378524615 357170 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more worrying is the "DLL" < 1378524620 268279 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that too < 1378524624 292346 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a string that doesn't have much meaning on Linux < 1378524628 606627 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but plenty of meaning on Windows < 1378524642 649235 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I came to the conclusion that Xilinx doesn't really care about the distinction between Linux and Windows < 1378524648 757506 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/proc/%d/exe" ummmm < 1378524651 380 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just tries to find some sort of way to make things work anyway < 1378524666 929821 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found a folder called "java". i'm really, really hoping it just uses java. < 1378524687 744958 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you probably weren't here when I said this, but for a microcontroller, the company released a custom compiler for it with an n day free trial < 1378524694 738733 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that compiler was quite clearly a gcc derivative < 1378524709 147326 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, source code was available, they were technically in compliance with the GPL < 1378524729 392742 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also I was technically in compliance with the license (the GPL) when I looked at the source to see how the n day free trial lockout worked < 1378524742 269452 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and patched it out < 1378524749 39650 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is probably the best argument for the GPL i've ever heard :p < 1378524769 708958 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I didn't recompile, that would have been a mess; rather, it turned out to communicate with a license-checking executable via fork/exec and checking the exit code < 1378524777 954875 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or the Winowds equivalent) < 1378524778 124784 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1378524780 218 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Windows < 1378524788 594838 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I replaced the license check with a copy of DNA Maze < 1378524806 516857 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. < 1378524832 496468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPL certainly allows such things like that to happen; if you don't want to pay for the full version then you can fix it yourself after every new version that is released < 1378524842 557180 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was on Windows, and didn't have a copy of true handy) < 1378524860 793577 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so, my horror is mounting. < 1378524876 733654 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNA maze? < 1378524880 389832 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: at Xilinx, or at DNA Maze? < 1378524881 727517 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bin/lin directory is full of programs. stuff that gets run on the "command line" by the GUI, like the layouter and whatever. < 1378524887 521027 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: computer game I wrote a while back, it's unfinished < 1378524892 322888 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some other stuff like "qt3config" < 1378524893 81851 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, it's finished past the point where most people give up playing < 1378524900 735890 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and "xilperl". < 1378524914 510982 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: try giving a -v to xilperl and seeing what happens < 1378524917 53591 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all of these programs < 1378524920 352041 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :are 20K < 1378524926 847382 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have the same sorts of stuff in strings < 1378524933 355706 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm freakin out!! < 1378524939 204982 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, if it's a working Perl < 1378524946 590955 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could probe its configuration from inside < 1378524948 721216 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :via Perl scripts < 1378524959 533198 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has lots of introspection on the actual executable that's running < 1378524972 10981 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is perl, v5.8.8 built for i686-linux Modified to use XILPERL* instead of PERL* environment variables." oh please no < 1378524978 788557 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, if it's a working Perl, then messing around with it is perfectly legal < 1378524980 401413 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because GPL < 1378524984 644432 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Artistic License < 1378525007 295912 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's a multilicense, so Xilinx get to pick which to ship it under) < 1378525026 705322 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i clicked through like four dozen licenses when i installed this thing, several of which were gpl < 1378525062 17330 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it strikes me as crazy to modify Perl purely to rename the environment variables it uses < 1378525082 164765 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shipping your own perl is kind of crazy too! < 1378525114 664991 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, huh < 1378525124 416374 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :artistic license is not copyleft enough to prevent them restricting you using it < 1378525132 312722 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :xilinx are probably relying on 3c and 8 < 1378525140 241873 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378525155 89228 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason it's called xilperl is almost certainly 3c, which requires you to rename the executables if you use it < 1378525179 533984 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why the changes to environment variables are documented < 1378525188 68640 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it requires you to document the differences < 1378525191 76334 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mornin' < 1378525196 267058 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Taneb < 1378525197 31342 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«$ENV{"XILINX"} = $ENV{"XXILINX"};» haha rock < 1378525197 176874 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, why are you awake < 1378525201 35214 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :why am I awake < 1378525205 5049 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does my back hurt < 1378525216 865257 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXXiLinXXX < 1378525252 721635 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suspect that the breakdown of copyleftiness in this situation was intentional by the person or people who drafted the license < 1378525279 184300 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sabotage????? < 1378525313 752057 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, as in the terms in question seem explicitly intended so that you can ship proprietary Perl programs via use of a custom Perl derivative < 1378525326 543425 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, this sort of nonsense is why I'm such a GPL fan < 1378525326 796569 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so um < 1378525339 545504 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«diff file0 file1» would output nothing iff the files are identical, correct? < 1378525344 218122 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the "worse for developers" argument, but the "better for users" is pretty strong < 1378525345 85687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: are you reverse engineering the xilinx fpga tools < 1378525346 717445 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: indeed < 1378525356 782146 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, um, it appears that all of these programs are identical. < 1378525363 291087 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's more he/she's peeking into them and discovering the horror within < 1378525367 451947 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's why it's reading /proc/self/exe < 1378525368 86421 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: in my defense, they're really irritating! < 1378525370 786944 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get at its own name < 1378525375 600642 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: aaaaaah < 1378525383 879933 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning to do that in NetHack 4 < 1378525396 729464 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is argv[0] not good enough < 1378525399 119844 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that nethack4-tty and nethack4-sdl are both symlinks to the same executable < 1378525403 861934 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :using argv[0] to tell them apart < 1378525410 957589 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, xilinx cares about readlinking the executable < 1378525418 881982 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can symlink to the executable without it not working < 1378525428 793847 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there's lots of readlinking in the setup, even. < 1378525429 613581 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The MS Paint Adventures server seems to be falling apart < 1378525434 229866 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :420 readlink everyday < 1378525455 189734 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: there are apparently fifty identical executables here. this is what i'm dealing with < 1378525457 508350 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :function < 1378525473 974965 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good thing they're only 20K then < 1378525497 133933 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know how Xilinx FPGA works and how to not need their GUI (so that it can be done inside the FPGA itself!) then that would work < 1378525498 955593 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this actually seems like a decent security mechanism < 1378525503 133393 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: -r---w---- readlink everyday < 1378525514 340526 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :making your code so abysmally painful to think about that anyone competent enough to crack the security doesn't want to try < 1378525519 21509 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well i'm trying to not use their GUI, though i think doing it on the fpga is rather ambitious for me. < 1378525532 872909 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1378525538 218615 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: little did they take into account me -- a bored ignorant undergraduate. the ultimate weapon. < 1378525549 540580 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Maybe, but I don't think so. If you want to crack it then you do want to be painful anyways < 1378525560 425657 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: btw mölkky has at least four names in various countries < 1378525584 760878 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. number kubb, finska, klop < 1378525626 538005 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, xilperl is one of these 20Ks < 1378525667 380028 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's clearly calling into a different executable somewhere < 1378525680 125350 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah. < 1378525682 543606 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly on the local machine < 1378525703 328126 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1378525747 327385 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hey, "xilhelp". clearly this is my path to salvation. < 1378525772 645381 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not sure; the Xilinx tools output lots of incomprehensible errors < 1378525790 13355 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an allegedly human-readable description which was meaningless, and a hyperlinked (at least, blue and underlined) error code < 1378525798 163650 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeedily doo. < 1378525810 368526 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicking on the code opened a web browser, but the resulting page was never useful < 1378525857 153241 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :running xilhelp resulted in: "error while loading shared libraries: libXm.so.4: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory". i can't say this was very helpful < 1378525889 815885 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just find a copy of libXm.so.4 < 1378525894 685713 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add it to the runtime path < 1378525906 628082 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i want to be helped that badly. < 1378525908 797290 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :LD_LIBRARY_PATH, it seems < 1378525947 716523 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, google suggests this is also used by something called "Cognos Business Intelligence" < 1378525950 702524 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ominous imo... < 1378525964 839986 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nobody names their company "Business Stupidity" < 1378526004 528408 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's... part of openmotif. < 1378526006 129471 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what. < 1378526052 472407 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, on a webforum I read, somebody accidentally posted on the wrong subforum (a reasonable mistake), and edited the OP into a request to delete the thread (while there were no responses) < 1378526054 701775 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i guess people still use motif. well, what withrawn, i guess. < 1378526060 469014 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a moderator saw it, and responded by stickying the thread < 1378526072 145850 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to have the potential to end badly < 1378526085 199895 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? why < 1378526087 586275 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they do that < 1378526091 192309 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1378526134 649809 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people seem to be unsure how to contribute to it < 1378526149 266304 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most posts are either image macros or metadiscussion about the thread itself < 1378526174 969874 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, nobody but the OP seems to know what the thread was originally about) < 1378526189 543671 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :«if ( -d "C:/" ) { $Platform = 'windows'; }» < 1378526216 133282 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a variable $^O < 1378526222 653425 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which exists for precisely this purpose < 1378526231 305837 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: you do know the most upvoted reddit post ever is "test post please ignore" right? < 1378526246 219471 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1378526254 875705 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's very rare for Perl variables to start with capital letters < 1378526267 894725 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they do, it typically means that they're global for some reason, yet being namespaced to certain packages < 1378526295 307768 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like all the variables are capitalized < 1378526298 210035 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unlikely to be happening here, because somehow I suspect there isn't a "use Platform;" involve < 1378526300 238955 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :*involved < 1378526302 472290 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :$CompedklibDefaultLogFile < 1378526326 554778 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor, if such a package existed, would it likely be necessary to check for Windows by looking for the existence of the root of the C drive < 1378526331 483497 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, not just existence < 1378526334 727778 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also checks that it's a directory < 1378526352 690273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system might not be on drive C though < 1378526357 573857 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably cause chaos by creating a "C:" directory in the current directory < 1378526362 472150 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one of those in my home folder already < 1378526366 755793 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which points to Wine's simulated drive C < 1378526375 871846 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this Xilinx software would fail for me, for completely mysterious reasons < 1378526400 917045 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this file is dated to '96. cool < 1378526414 968341 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can fix the parts of the programs that have source-codes available < 1378526433 629862 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On my Windows I have the system on drive F: instead of drive C: < 1378526453 826459 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much malware that instantly defeats < 1378526471 47511 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1378527315 126729 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know what /usr/ucb is/ < 1378527316 802936 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is?* < 1378527404 541775 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"university of california, berkeley"?? < 1378527473 904846 :pikhq!~pikhq@24-107-196-13.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1378527519 259239 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope so < 1378527533 2921 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this thing is eroding me. < 1378527635 873943 :Nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378527640 678106 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it includes the entire jre. < 1378527656 500736 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: apt-cache hasn't heard of it, which is a bad sign < 1378527665 58004 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice, in fact, if I'm understanding this correctly < 1378527674 92934 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly it needs specific versions < 1378527677 834306 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more than one of them < 1378527679 705940 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 5 and 6. < 1378527840 754575 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have suggested to the DM of a D&D game, a kind of curse in my character (although it can be removed normally). < 1378527970 306895 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378528043 493137 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The demon (well, actually, almost-demon/almost-dragon, stuck in the middle of changing)'s brain is cursed, and now so am I; I no longer automatically heal damage (although spells and so on still work), and I take a -2 penalty to saves against divine spells cast by evil spellcasters. The curse can be removed normally although then I am hungry again. < 1378528204 691627 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1378528611 226395 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have argued about if FurryScript counts as esolang or not (this was a while ago). However, also notice things like CUTLASS, and Prehistory of esoteric programming languages. Also, Wikipedia mentions "Random text generators such as the Dada Engine and rmutt are examples of this kind of nondeterminstic language." Are Dada Engine and rmutt considered esolangs? < 1378528834 593919 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FurryScript was not *intended* to be strange, it just is! Dada Engine and rmutt aren't so strange, but they also aren't so powerful.) < 1378529009 590158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know the answer of any of these questions at this time? < 1378529664 314671 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: What's the scripting that Furcadia uses? < 1378529801 778493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I don't know. < 1378529802 113526 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :DragonSpeak < 1378529810 210782 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it is? OK < 1378529829 844320 :nycs!~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1378529864 346229 :Gracenotes_!~person@192.241.203.42 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378529990 734681 :Gracenotes!~person@192.241.203.42 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1378529990 880132 :`^_^v!~nycs@rrcs-24-39-141-128.nyc.biz.rr.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378530252 152753 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Why do you want to know, and why do you ask me in particular? < 1378530273 433030 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because FurryScript sounded like it would be the name < 1378530319 761230 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, well, I suppose it isn't. < 1378530369 121500 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if FurryScript codes really resemble any other programming languages at all. Does it look like it to you? < 1378530410 636751 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't actually looked at FurryScript < 1378530470 802129 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you look at it now? < 1378530751 370972 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MyOpenID is closing < 1378530885 334927 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is? Do you use MyOpenID? < 1378530974 958200 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1378530987 821376 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used MyOpenID for pretty much everything that asks for an OpenID < 1378530998 40832 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one thing that Google hasn't encroached on in my life < 1378531004 905304 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which... they will now, I guess < 1378531011 481161 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need to switch accounts over if possible, ugh < 1378531126 685379 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I check what compiler a binary was compiled with based on its mangling style? < 1378531157 245683 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also run your own OpenID server if you have a server, or see if there is some other OpenID server < 1378531164 489653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I run my own OpenID server) < 1378536125 334142 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.184.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378536174 745103 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.184.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378538241 576823 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378538382 971567 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378539282 163079 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You can compare manually to the lists in Chapter 8 of http://www.agner.org/optimize/calling_conventions.pdf < 1378539348 289127 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1378539593 588269 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I don't have CallForJudgement -> ais523 in the nick-combine-map of #esoteric in the stats thing. < 1378539608 400368 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can combine "scarf" too < 1378539613 74621 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one I have. < 1378539618 890834 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And ais523\unfoog. < 1378539656 332631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that editing the list would involve rerunning the whole thing, and it takes a long. < 1378539680 849140 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I was supposed to combine two things there too, now I've forgotten who. < 1378539979 532821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a CakeProphet the same thing as a kallisti? < 1378540009 710652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :In here it is. < 1378540883 729379 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfoog? < 1378540939 823459 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/null/nethack clan < 1378542529 642204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stats: updated. < 1378542605 641444 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet I've really dropped off recently < 1378542621 936904 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1378542631 81985 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your presence bitmap has turned into these isolated vertical lines, basically. < 1378542698 431743 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my problem is that nobody seems to want to talk about esolangs < 1378542705 205650 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :offtopic discussion is one thing < 1378542716 303188 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lack of ontopic discussion, though, just means that the channel isn't actually about esoprogramming < 1378542722 822137 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pointless to come here for esoprogramming discussion < 1378542807 177430 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's certainly true. < 1378542846 787170 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so the main question is just whether I find the offtopic discussion interesting enough to stick around < 1378542852 87168 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the answer being "not really" < 1378545207 304851 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378545495 415141 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Would it help to combine by address instead of nickname? < 1378545730 583526 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1378545736 468305 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :addresses can be unstable < 1378545745 649529 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a bunch that need combining, some of which are rarely used < 1378547111 852287 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378547176 987175 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378547706 796855 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :On topic is sometimes, but rarely < 1378547767 828502 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you think FurryScript programs seem to resemble programs in any other programming languages, and if so, which ones, and how much resemblance? < 1378548090 472320 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are none that I know of. < 1378548100 508162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But maybe you know better) < 1378548482 737692 :SingingBoyo!~brandon@154.5.184.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378548698 759889 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Furthermore, how much do the features resemble those of other programming languages? < 1378549649 421584 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read about the "not provable" operator in Prolog; I was previously thinking of an operator to be added to any sequent calculus, which does something similar. < 1378549703 983634 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: you don't need an operator for that < 1378549710 36980 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement it in terms of cut < 1378549726 586370 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :\+ X :- X, !, fail. \+ _. < 1378549854 898553 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: OK, so you can, but that has nothing to do with the point I was making anyways; rather I meant some operator (I called it an "oracle operator") which, if |- X isn't provable in some sequent calculus system then |- Oracle(X) is an axiom. So it isn't quite the same, although it might be related. < 1378550911 2404 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378552303 574005 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378552395 1412 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1378552739 71242 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-134-3-130-100.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1378553148 315966 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1378553194 270010 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378553300 314731 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378555828 323106 :nooodl!~nooodl@225.175-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1378556870 478970 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I note that oerjan cannot distinguish a thread, from thread < 1378556879 786949 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps I was being unnecessarily poetic… < 1378563079 298220 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1378565438 749310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378565445 673362 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1378566064 344305 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1378566270 885408 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378566795 176327 :function!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1378567310 104724 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378567644 6566 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1378567757 963421 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it's always such a hassle whenever the electricity breaks. < 1378567772 690534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Last time was 475 days ago, so fortunately it's not exactly common.) < 1378567813 267911 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time it seems that the BIOS battery of the router box has gone flat, because it was all "defaults set" and "no keyboard, press f1 to continue" when I went and plugged a monitor in to see what's up. < 1378568558 682543 :CallForJudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1378569122 53248 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily The USB issue I have seems to be a kernel bug in 3.2 (which I'm running since I'm stable Debian, this might make me go testing or manually build a newer kernel, whichever is least work) < 1378569122 239683 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1378569182 907019 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting [428528.396567] xhci_hcd 0000:05:00.0: ERROR no room on ep ring every time I plug or unplug a device on a specific other USB 2 hub < 1378569191 192942 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :which affects the USB 3 devices < 1378570699 661802 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: sfhhaac sahahfc ashfhac < 1378570707 895116 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that why fungot is gone? < 1378571295 732375 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Yes. I'll see about getting that system back up soonishly. < 1378571420 688429 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, This Debian package looks pretty silly: linux-image-amd64:i386 < 1378571445 164892 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the 64-bit kernel for multiarch x86 < 1378572024 941400 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, should I get an -rt kernel? That sounds cool < 1378572098 331456 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com < 1378572497 369003 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1378574180 305185 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378574245 686647 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1378574291 901707 :Phantom_Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378574407 862059 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, here goes nothing, just manually build a newer fglrx package for Debian stable. Going to reboot to kernel from backports now < 1378574475 336566 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :your problem is fglrx < 1378575537 186716 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ < 1378576136 49477 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, yes. yes it is. < 1378576168 740689 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, but good luck using more than two monitors with consumer nvidia cards! < 1378576186 208948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need multiple cards then < 1378576203 691757 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's not true any more. < 1378576215 598502 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1378576226 164845 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run four monitors on my gt660, I believe. < 1378576226 310051 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or is it 660 GTX? Something like that, anyway. < 1378576233 651401 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1378576249 814719 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, think I can run 5 on mine, though I only use 3 currently < 1378576269 376643 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were limited to two but bumped that up to 4 in the 6xx series, or something approximately like that. < 1378576275 260917 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1378576323 155119 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :do those cards have 4/5 connectors too, or can you like split DVI cables and connect several screens? < 1378576356 480697 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, mine? It has 5: 2x DVI (one I and one D), 1x HDMI, 2x DP < 1378576423 845536 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway it works fine now, after a couple of reboots fixing kernel parameters and such < 1378576466 703087 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the number of supported screens really just depends on the number of connectors? < 1378576489 178526 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Not entirely, they've had >2 connectors for a while on NVidia cards without supporting >2 monitors. < 1378576511 951872 :carado_!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378576537 687578 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You also need enough of the per-display hardware, like clock signal generators and whatnot, to support all connectors simultaneously.) < 1378576551 719880 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : so the number of supported screens really just depends on the number of connectors? <-- mine is AMD though < 1378576620 837074 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And sometimes it's not a clear number, e.g. it's something like "at most X DVI monitors and Y DisplayPort ones, except if your DP-to-DVI adapter is active instead of passive". < 1378576652 338534 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they don't have enough of the things that generate the TMDS signal for DVI panels.) < 1378576668 989719 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep that happens too < 1378576726 787277 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my card has one DVI-I, one DVI-D, one HDMI and one DP connector. < 1378576731 765419 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds complicated, I'm glad I'm happy with only two screens < 1378576778 118249 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad I don't have that "onboard Radeon + discrete NVidia card" three-monitor setup any more, now *that* was a can of worms. < 1378576843 513810 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds terrbile < 1378576845 579830 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :terrible* < 1378576860 563821 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even run Xinerama on it, it just crashed all the time. < 1378576876 226368 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just ran old-fashioned X multihead then.) < 1378576876 371695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I use onboard intel + discrete nivida quadro chipset at work for builtin + two external (from the laptop dock) < 1378576896 828392 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's onboard Intel on this too, the Haswell integrated one. < 1378576899 957926 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't work with all there unless I turn on that intel+nvidia thing in the bios < 1378576942 756836 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I think some kind of Optimus thing? At least Chromium chrome://gpu says "Optimus: true" and blacklists all 3D stuff. :p < 1378576952 439665 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Drivers are unreliable for Optimus on Linux.: 131308" < 1378576979 427031 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ugh, that bad? < 1378576989 77171 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the laptops I've been considering have optimus < 1378577005 513310 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that the bug has Status: fixed in Sep-2012, so maybe my Chromium is just very old. < 1378577057 996042 :Phantom__Hoover!~Phantom@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover/x-3377486 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, chrome doesn't play well with optimus on linux < 1378577083 704743 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use the discrete card here, though. Wouldn't I have to have the displays connected to the integrated GPU for actual Optimus to happen, even? < 1378577127 516066 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was under the assumption the final image always went through that even with a discrete GPU in use.) < 1378577132 686853 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all so confusing these days. < 1378577145 450557 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's how it works as I understand it < 1378577174 388701 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the xrandr -q result quite often seems to have nothing to do with the actually existing physical connectors; in my case, I have the outputs DVI-I-0 (does not exist), DVI-I-1 (exists), HDMI-0 (exists), DP-0 and DP-1 (presumably one of them exists) and DVI-D-0. < 1378577216 454634 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it was something equally imaginary on the Intel graphics at work, I think. < 1378577238 703934 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently xrandr thinks I have a single large screen < 1378577295 1271 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old nvidia proprietary driver used to be like that. < 1378577311 302297 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1378577315 799941 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also it had different modes indicated by fake refresh rates, or something like that. < 1378577330 725239 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because the dimensions of the bounding box aren't necessarily unique.) < 1378577395 784580 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's still a single large "Screen" (for the X definition of "Screen") for xrandr-age multihead, but there's the different outputs listed. < 1378577483 32379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, the CPU fan on the router box is being incredibly noisy. Probably about to break. < 1378577583 814134 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=131308 -- looks like the "fix" is to blacklist it < 1378577660 959262 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't read it all that closely. I was just assuming. < 1378577685 111828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly it just goes "GPU thread hung up" and re-disables it if I --ignore-gpu-blacklist. < 1378577731 721775 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or do the chrome://flags thing.) < 1378577910 7296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that is broken, while watching flash video (youtube) the FPS of glxgrears (using forced vsync and "tear free desktop") drops to like 5. Pausing the video gives me the expected 60 FPS < 1378577919 278005 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :New on this kernel version < 1378578076 789860 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit scary how browsers are dependent on reliable secure gpu drivers nowadays < 1378578110 227128 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the gpu blacklist is out of date and your driver has a bug, webgl gets a free pass to all your computer < 1378578125 110634 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1378578179 848257 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to sort out dependency issues with 32-bit libs after the upgrade < 1378578206 530903 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot like the browser itself, granted, but at least browser makers have 20 years of dealing with broken web pages < 1378578237 877771 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than 20 years of cheating the latest gpu benchmark and making shortcuts for the popular games, and freely assuming they only deal with code that the user has already bought and/or decided to trust < 1378578514 140027 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1378578566 870895 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't basically every security type person say webgl is an awful idea ages ago? < 1378578578 164678 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah it is < 1378578596 689220 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really the problem isn't webgl in particular, the problem is that at this point every piece of code has to be written for security < 1378578601 956694 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it... isn't < 1378578608 850784 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a security type person so I'm probably late to that party but yes < 1378578615 771272 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nothing isn't exposed over the network nowadays < 1378578751 263388 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also the xrandr -q result quite often seems to have nothing to do with the actually existing physical connectors; in my case, I have the outputs DVI-I-0 (does not exist), DVI-I-1 (exists), HDMI-0 (exists), DP-0 and DP-1 (presumably one of them exists) and DVI-D-0. <-- quite, I have DFP1 to DFP7 plus CRT1 < 1378579030 47120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1378579042 951269 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn them all on and stash your porn windows on the invisible screens < 1378579097 48777 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1378579114 915312 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems I'm using DFP5-DFP7 < 1378580269 320864 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1378581286 643322 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378581291 279214 :Bike_!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378581326 529496 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.114 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1378581456 379445 :Nisstyre-laptop!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre NICK :nisstyre < 1378581491 222967 :Bike_!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 NICK :Bike < 1378583381 416920 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-134-3-130-100.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1378583390 350911 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378583532 30458 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1378583574 982136 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is the esoteric programming world doing? < 1378583644 64035 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :explosively < 1378583857 300493 :Roujo!~Roujo@unaffiliated/roujo PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome baordog < 1378583865 608159 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​13ba04ordog: Welc10ome to t06he intern07ational hub 12fo09r 06es12oteric p06rogra12mmin08g lan07gu09age desi13gn and de07plo05yment! For more i05nformatio03n, check ou04t our w08i07ki: 06http://esolangs.org/wiki/06Main04_Pa08ge. (For the03 13other kind10 of esoterica, try #esoteric o07n irc.dal08.net.13) < 1378583898 565381 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember in like 2003 getting the ability to hook up my computer to the (analog, CRT) television and it was so awesome < 1378583950 298042 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378584022 553846 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :watching pirated 320x240 simpsons episodes over s-video < 1378584032 282484 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378584048 448215 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloaded from KaZaA < 1378584058 995007 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly, the future < 1378584085 616421 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some downloaded from IRC < 1378584086 68170 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378584095 259913 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378584175 305253 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1378584496 126501 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write some code < 1378584502 334665 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :irc is still like the fastest piracy i've used `-` < 1378584668 556897 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internet Act of 1996 passed into law by Bill Clinton says you must disconnect IMMEDIATELY from this DCC if you are affiliated with any law enforcement agency! < 1378584791 514115 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`slist < 1378584793 39773 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot < 1378584810 971888 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As almost half of that list, I say thank you < 1378584835 964931 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hahh, did they really say things like that? < 1378584923 907768 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: that's why intel cards exist < 1378584936 503318 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, hm? < 1378584938 798937 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1378584942 931131 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1378584949 680869 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro, I also use OpenGL and OpenCL though < 1378584962 886672 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Intel cards? < 1378585026 143933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, tripple screens I think, if it is the same conversation < 1378585056 717036 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1378585063 71051 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my last triple monitor system just had two nvidia cards < 1378585070 79035 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the internet act create the internet < 1378585073 204407 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much power usage < 1378585081 474397 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that quote from anyway kmc? < 1378585093 569502 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet, obviously < 1378585097 163468 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: al gore joke < 1378585237 278343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's my paraphrase of the kinds of things the piracy DCC bots would say when you connect to them < 1378585278 420542 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, heh < 1378585305 807361 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to tell me if you're a cop < 1378585313 714647 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the constitution < 1378585320 293329 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1378585349 856783 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, what about under cover stuff < 1378585359 669823 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about t < 1378585368 923770 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, do they have to tell too? < 1378585378 642922 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because that would defeat the point wouldn't it? < 1378585379 647540 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the joke is that there is no such rule at all < 1378585388 283100 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :cops can freely lie about being cops (or most other things) < 1378585398 461642 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, makes a lot more sense < 1378585414 983557 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a common misconception among dumb criminals (or maybe just a trope of the existence of such a misconception) < 1378585423 193226 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the entrapment rules vary quite a bit by country < 1378585428 636960 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I mean in the US < 1378585435 59761 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1378585440 739458 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote an application with a GUI in Haskell and now I'm way too proud of myself to try and do a bigger one < 1378585445 460874 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it work in other countries, actually < 1378585448 151567 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure there are some rules preventing some of that in Sweden for example yeah < 1378585455 915798 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that cops pose on hacker forums all the time < 1378585459 192085 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :my understanding is that US cops can lie but not make fake offers < 1378585467 68754 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fairly certain german cops have to admit they are cops if directly questioned < 1378585475 128733 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi baordog, you new here? < 1378585481 90287 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yup :) < 1378585484 351428 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "entrapment" in the US is defined pretty strictly and basically has to include you committing a crime that you wouldn't otherwise < 1378585486 833403 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome baordog < 1378585489 489816 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if the cops coerce you into it < 1378585489 634921 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​12b05aordog: Welcom05e 07to 12the14 int14ernational hu06b for13 esote03ric 13program10ming langua14ge design and deployment! For 04more 06i10nformation, chec13k13 out our wiki: htt09p://e10so10lang09s.12org/wiki/Main11_Page. (F04or 08the other kind of esot10erica,14 try 02#esoteri08c on irc.05dal.net.) < 1378585493 323690 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not if they just suggest it < 1378585506 908552 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :or they make it look extremly appealing < 1378585507 54226 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because anyone who would sell drugs under a mere suggestion was probably going to anyway? < 1378585513 420294 :itsy!~digital_w@200.79.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1378585516 948817 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's also the thing where constitutional rights don't really apply in drug cases < 1378585517 862236 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines cop badgering people to buy a dirty bomb < 1378585520 514357 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any other kind of rights < 1378585525 516410 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :cop tries REALLY HARD to convince someone to sell them drugs < 1378585530 2893 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: if you don't build that dirty bomb you're a total pussy < 1378585535 920171 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that a lot of hacker cases in the U.S don't actually end up sticking, because the evidence is gathered in such circumspect ways < 1378585537 442097 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you're a drug dealer that can be your defence < 1378585542 882848 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :people have to pester you to do business with you < 1378585546 169993 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I didn't want to be a pussy, man" < 1378585574 280286 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a wonderful book called "dark market" on the subject < 1378585582 502605 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: basically https://twitter.com/NotANark < 1378585613 661292 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. < 1378585637 424312 :baordog!~chatzilla@ool-18bc8a34.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: rotfl < 1378585714 61198 :itsy!~digital_w@200.79.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reading http://www.basiccomic.com < 1378586181 846108 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. < 1378586186 185079 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1102) If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. < 1378586249 186799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind them to what < 1378586272 72953 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To jail. < 1378586276 886763 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1378586279 532660 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh, kmc. < 1378586280 971192 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1378586285 865715 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. bind them to what To jail. < 1378586290 297694 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1102) If someone tries really hard to convince you to sell them drugs, then you should photograph them and bind them. bind them to what To jail. < 1378586306 770647 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they are a police officer then you should post the picture in a database of undercover police officers. < 1378586317 431501 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretend to be a drug dealer but never have any or sell any to anyone. < 1378586338 58041 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric : 187 ON AN UNDERCOVER COP < 1378586500 326969 :augur!~augur@208.58.5.87 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1378586716 598063 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Numeri&curid=8998&diff=37100&oldid=37095 this edit is really good < 1378586805 524510 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :people with autocensors are the best/worst < 1378586827 844634 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a ban-them-forever policy? probably should, they never seem to get better < 1378586828 198687 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's that chrome plugin which replaces "The Cloud" with "My Butt" and it sometimes makes its way into wiki edits < 1378587268 99660 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1378588438 115532 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-66.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1378588559 413710 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1378591986 112640 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1378592004 329257 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1378592151 748681 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1378592430 10932 :ldecimuxZ!~canaima@186.93.221.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378592451 419090 :ldecimuxZ!~canaima@186.93.221.31 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1378592492 610454 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1378592501 92457 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You've been gone a while, how are you feeling? < 1378592502 263295 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's a unicode character and got... well. i find myself writing things like fnord optimization or things like that very often, so it's the same < 1378592520 18131 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that counts as "fine", then. < 1378592530 14333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worse than usual. < 1378592633 328841 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, from #elsewhere, but amusing: http://cgit.freedesktop.org/xorg/driver/xf86-video-intel/commit/?id=58a7611ccfda88c7cbcc62b25b787d6b0fa64081&utm_source=anzwix < 1378592656 981422 :Bike!~Glossina@69.166.47.103 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378592671 496713 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes one of the mezzacotta characters seems to have eir markov chain based on the book of mormon. < 1378592680 127692 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The parent commit being: [Revert "sna: Add XMir support"].) < 1378593003 518800 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's xmir and why do they even care? < 1378593134 797916 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir_(display_server_protocol) < 1378593179 398325 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like canonical managed to find a way to use gplv3 to be _less_ open source friendly :P < 1378593230 42956 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the future. Well, one of the futures. < 1378593267 283894 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume canonical owns ubuntu itself and so can put xmir there, but _neither_ upstream nor downstream distributions want anything to do with this. < 1378593298 701928 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also has never quite managed to learn the difference between upstream and downstream. < 1378593313 834250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You just look at which way the stuff flows. < 1378593325 86417 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :O KAY < 1378593331 371669 :elliott!elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like homespring < 1378593376 642323 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am guessing debian and xorg are upstream and {k,x,l}ubuntu are downstream in this case. < 1378593539 753919 :Taneb!~nathan@host-92-30-187-55.as13285.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1378593577 78011 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression they owned kubuntu too, but apparently that's no longer true. < 1378593688 239653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Is a CakeProphet the same thing as a kallisti? <-- i think nineinchbread also < 1378593710 397710 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's, unfortunately, too late. Hopefully that's not a too-much-used name. < 1378593746 497859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey just put it in the todo list for next release < 1378593816 476278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsafeKallisti < 1378595327 198571 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: 35° today :'( < 1378595334 703783 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1378595342 818191 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 24 here < 1378595353 750458 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-26-83.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 28 in my house for some reason < 1378595498 500629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should make the bot report the weather < 1378595516 326123 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How's it in the noisy room? < 1378595516 664862 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www-i2.informatik.rwth-aachen.de/ fnord/ fnord < 1378595522 452194 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :O...kay. < 1378595756 472895 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1378596005 832857 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: The URL /fnord/fnord was not found on this server. < 1378596006 274581 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why not just put multiple inheritence into condition types? < 1378596021 407243 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'll try that, thanks < 1378596022 38085 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: lambda associates home page says it won't be much fun.) hmm, nearly got fnord actually, want to see < 1378596179 480508 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oerjan.nvg.org/fnord/fnord/fnord/ < 1378596223 348435 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it sayyyyyy?????????? < 1378596226 951167 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dies of worry < 1378596261 397649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :have i made a lethal web page?!?!?!!!11ELEVEN < 1378596321 874086 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it was (is) information about England < 1378596344 708710 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1378596347 510002 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1378596352 894 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION comes back to life < 1378596409 102254 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo: create the qaskell programming language < 1378596429 743394 :dfdfdf!~kcd@101.255.24.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378596551 189865 :dfdfdf!~kcd@101.255.24.142 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1378596573 927037 :dfdfdf!~kcd@101.255.24.142 JOIN :#esoteric < 1378597517 565995 :dfdfdf!~kcd@101.255.24.142 QUIT :