00:12:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 00:17:46 -!- conehead has joined. 00:28:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:51:35 My character may join "Aberration Saver". What would you think of such thing like that? 01:07:55 -!- iconmaster has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:15:27 what does it even mean 01:16:36 I don't know if it can be explained so easily, sorry 01:17:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:17:17 But I can try to explain it a little big 01:17:20 s/big/bit/ 01:17:39 it's hard to know what we think of such thing like that if we don't know which thing it is 01:17:56 kmc: Yes, I know, but I thought you might know 01:18:04 I can try to explain in a minute 01:18:23 It is related to the god Gxxyuxihuvxi 01:18:40 this is a good explanation. 01:18:58 It is the patron deity of my character 01:19:11 the patron deity of consonants 01:19:48 It is the society to save such creatures, which can be against opposing society but they don't necessarily have some patron deity 01:21:38 It is difficult to pronounce so sometimes they call "The god who shall not be named because is difficult to pronounce". 01:23:17 hahaha 01:23:19 good god 01:23:25 "It has a very high vapor pressure, for a metal" 01:25:36 If you watch how I play the Dungeons&Dragons game then maybe you can know kind of what kind of things I mean. 01:26:17 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 01:28:36 They are the god of good aligned aberration type creatures. Their holy and ritual and temple and so on are often considered confusing by others, however. 01:29:33 Sometimes even wrong, but, you have to think about it for yourself too, and see if it is sensible! 01:29:47 Even if it is simultaneously sane and insane, is also OK too. 01:30:06 Now do you like this? 01:30:16 kmc: What kind of metal do you mean? 01:51:51 mercury 01:52:53 O, that's what it is. 02:01:05 -!- OriginalOldMan has joined. 02:06:14 Have I explained enough now? 02:11:25 i guess i get it 02:12:36 OK 02:13:02 Would you have something to say about it then? 02:13:51 i don't know enough about your play style 02:14:03 i'd have to watch you play 02:15:52 You could read the recording of the game, and/or to ask question, answer, complaint, comment, confusing, and thinking. 02:17:31 I would say, I often do unusual kind of things, I suppose. 02:18:34 For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. 02:19:53 how will you attack the darkness 02:20:20 By surprise! 02:20:47 i can respect that answer 02:21:14 My character can see in dark anyways (usually; sometimes there is magical darkness that you can't see, but I have ways to get around that too and it depend on circumstances) 02:21:38 are you a wizard? 02:21:44 Yes 02:21:51 so is harry potter 02:21:53 Although often the things I do are not spell casting anyways 02:23:15 A lot of things rather have to do with items, such as cat fur, rusty nails, bone, stone, lock picks, astrolabe, rope, IOU, and so on. 02:23:35 The DM thought the astrolabe would be completely useless, but, I used it. 02:23:55 `addquote For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 02:23:59 My character sheet is available on the computer though 02:23:59 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 02:24:28 I usually don't need to attack the darkness though 02:26:52 It is usually bright areas that we attack 02:27:09 Simply because the opponent would not attack if they cannot see! 02:27:19 zzo38: can you pick locks in real life or only in the dungeons & dragons game 02:27:27 zzo38: maybe the opponent has magical sight 02:27:37 Only in the game. 02:27:57 kmc: Yes, if they do have magical sight, or just if they can naturally see in dark, then they can, but my character can see in dark too 02:28:06 But is not very good at combat 02:28:07 the opponent has termorsense 02:28:09 you are dead 02:28:19 eaten by a grue 02:28:24 or an object mimic 02:28:54 I have managed to escape far more severe situations than that 02:29:34 have you? or was it your character? 02:30:21 if you've been mugged by a crack addict with a pistol in the middle of the night, i'll concede you've survived grue-level challenges 02:33:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:36:03 Apparently, 1 bowl of mac and cheese is not a sufficient dinner 02:36:38 According to my still hungry stomach 02:43:48 i could have told you that 02:44:01 you need a box of velveeta shells and cheese with broccoli 02:44:13 and mix some tuna or spam into it 02:44:20 that'll fill you right up 02:44:40 I wonder if Stop&Shop would sell meat thermometers 02:45:00 So I could feel comfortable buying ... oh I don't know if fridge/freezer actually work 02:45:24 are you still in farmingdale or whatever 02:46:51 No, you have to read the recording to learn! 02:47:50 the recording wouldn't tell me whether you've been mugged by a canadian crack addict 02:53:45 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:00:00 quintopia: yes 03:00:06 Not in college anymoe 03:21:11 I have not been mugged by a Canadian crack addict and neither have my characters. 03:21:48 My playing style has sometimes been compared with Batman. 03:23:31 In the game, once my character was being captured, and I decided not to resist being captured; after all they were taking me to the place I was intending to go anyways. Sometimes deceptive tactics can help. 03:23:39 -!- OriginalOldMan has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 03:24:10 My tactics are rarely fighting. 03:28:01 They are more likely confusions, deceptions, preparation, defense, outsmarting opponent, and mainly thinking ahead a lot and using what we happen to have in the given situation. 03:28:19 For example, using the phase of the moon to your advantage, or the day of the week. 04:12:33 -!- carado has joined. 04:29:14 There are many reasons to avoid the use of magic in many situations, and this is what is done. It can include to save the magic for later, or to do other things that work even in anti magic field, to not allow others to identify the spell, and because magical things can go wrong and/or have less likely chances to work. 04:29:26 -!- copumpkin has changed nick to cocitrouille. 04:29:38 However, when magic is used, you have to do things such as taking advantage of the exact duration of the spell, and other side-effects. 04:33:07 Often, mundane things will do. 04:43:14 Such as, like I mentioned, phase of the moon, day of the week, astrolabe, slant of the floor, the arrangement of things in a room or of hallways and rooms in a building, mundane deception or lack of it, Sicilian reasoning, the style of writing of a book, the size and type of paper used to write a message, the current season, time of day, sunrise and sunset times, and a whole bunch of other things like that. 04:43:33 This is how you should learn to play the Dungeons&Dragons game! 04:44:54 Can you play the game like this? 05:00:50 It isn't like chess, where you have to act every turn; you are allowed to pass your turn, and it is often useful to do so. 05:04:07 You can save someone by retreating instead. 05:06:25 In the manga "Kaiji", Kaiji manages to beat a pachinko game partially by the floor being slanted because of someone doing construction nearby. 05:42:37 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 05:44:37 -!- cocitrouille has changed nick to copumpkin. 06:06:42 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: zzo38). 06:45:44 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 07:12:13 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:34:13 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:40:23 -!- Taneb has joined. 07:44:45 I woke up this morning in a mathsy mood 07:45:00 Finally worked out /why/ you can get the Fibonacci series from Pascal's triangle 07:45:37 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 07:56:29 Which gives me a weird idea for a Fibonacci sequence program 07:57:25 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 08:07:13 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:15:48 "Special course in Language Technology: Language, Motion and Emotion" ... "The course is multi- and interdisciplinary --" 09:03:52 "NOTE! currently system is at most 8*65536 bytes long. This should be no problem, even in the future. I want to keep it simple. This 512 kB kernel size should be enough --" (linux-0.01 bootloader comment) 2.4M /boot/vmlinuz-3.10-2-amd64 (Debian testing) A bit of a discrepancy there. 09:13:12 and those 2.4MB is the compressed size! (maybe the 512kB were too?) 09:14:26 I don't think the 0.01 code does decompression. 09:15:14 Something else I learned: the current boot sector header of the (x86) kernel just prints "Direct floppy boot is not supported. Use a boot loader program instead." and reboots: https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/master/arch/x86/boot/header.S 09:15:31 I was sort of assuming there still was a vestigial boot loader there. 09:21:11 I wonder if they tried removing it completely first but then got tons of bug reports about corrupt kernels not being bootable 09:25:59 It said "Direct booting from floppy is no longer supported. Please use a boot loader program instead." -- a slightly different wording -- in bugger_off_msg in Jun 20, 2012. 09:29:36 Huh, it didn't support floppy boot in 2009 when zImage support (in addition to bzImage -- which is still gzip, I understand it's a common misconception to think it's bzip2) was dropped. 09:29:48 And in fact it did not support floppy boot in 2007 either. 09:30:17 Nor in 2005, which is as far back as github's history view of bootsect.S goes. 09:32:23 (Back to 2.6.12, which seems to be the first Git-managed kernel. Well, maybe LXR knows more.) 09:34:51 2.5.64 still supports floppy boot, and 2.5.65 already has the "not supported" error message. 09:34:54 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:36:16 That's a quick change 09:36:35 "Summary of changes from v2.5.64 to v2.5.65" "Peter Anvin : bootsect removal" 09:39:08 I've already removed my boot sector and I'm not even at 0.01 09:39:38 Curiously enough, 2.5.64 itself changes bootsect.S by adding the value 21 to the 'disksizes' (supported sector/track numbers) array. 09:40:11 I have a feeling perhaps that change prompted someone to get rid of the whole thing. 09:43:21 http://sprunge.us/KXBH best thing? 09:59:59 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection timed out). 10:04:51 -!- ais523_ has joined. 10:18:24 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:25:56 @tell zzo38 I have also started seeing the thing where wikipedia tries to change to https automatically. I kind of like it. I think it's set by the "Always use a secure connection when logged in" preference. 10:25:56 Consider it noted. 10:30:58 bleh, reading proggit is making my hatred of github less irrational 10:31:02 should I be annoyed at this? 10:35:45 how does proggit affect your opinion of github? 10:36:26 there's someone reporting on how they managed to send 300,000 emails in 4 minutes /accidentally/ because they were trying to migrate an issue tracker to Github 10:36:33 also that it turns out that there's no other way to do it 10:37:09 Also, git. 10:37:23 yeah, git is suboptimal as a VCS 10:37:29 but it won, somehow 10:37:36 Yeah, I find that flabbergasting. 10:37:44 Since it's hideously unusable. 10:38:08 git story: I spent like an hour last night trying to figure out a git command to print the hash of HEAD 10:38:23 I'm not sure if there's any 100% reliable way to do it, and there's no /obvious/ way to do it 10:38:25 hg story: hg id 10:38:32 Oh, for HEAD 10:38:34 hg id -r tip 10:38:39 my current best solution is git log --pretty=format:%H -1 10:38:47 lul 10:39:17 Yeah, git is honestly the worst thing ever. I have to assume that there was malicious intent in its design, because even programmers can't eff up UIs that badly. 10:39:29 Gregor: the actual explanation is that it doesn't have a UI 10:39:42 it has a programming API, which they planned to build a UI on top of 10:39:47 but never got round to it 10:39:52 so people started using the API directly 10:40:33 What I find most perplexing is that people actually think git is usable. 10:40:38 People who use it. 10:40:50 I know I'm not insane, so I'm forced to conclude that they are. 10:41:03 I find it "usable" in the sense of "possible to use" 10:41:09 I don't. 10:41:11 but not in the sense of "usability" 10:41:11 I use hg-git. 10:41:26 I guess git is the C of version control systems 10:41:42 it lets you do just about anything, but at the expense of needing a lot of complexity to do anything 10:42:07 I find that even without any guidance, it's easier to do everything in hg-git VIA A REPOSITORY FORMAT TRANSLATION than it is to do the same in git with github's help pages. 10:42:09 (personally I prefer darcs) 10:42:20 also github don't understand git, AFAICT 10:42:31 they have a github client for Windows that is incapable of doing some of the most basic operations 10:43:01 ais523_: "git rev-parse HEAD" not doing it? 10:43:01 I used to use darcs, switched to hg because it was good enough and more popular, looked at git and cried for a generation of programmers. 10:43:20 fizzie: I thought I tried that, not at a computer with git on right now so I can't check 10:43:31 perhaps it was something similar I tried 10:43:40 It works in the one repository I tried. 10:43:53 Anyway, I now manage everything on bitbucket/hg and have it automatically cloned to github :) 10:44:00 I recommend this solution for everyone. 10:44:10 I don't, it involves having contact with github 10:44:22 ais523_: The problem is, lots of services that want to be trendy are github-only. 10:44:33 well that just makes them easier to ignore :) 10:44:52 Thanks to having a github clone, I can have all my tests run automatically on every push; and I don't have to touch github itself except on initial commit. 10:45:30 Although Google recruiters have only tried to pick me up over my /bitbucket/ activity, so I guess at least the recruitment world isn't github-only. 10:45:42 Gregor: they tried to pick me up over something, and I have no idea what 10:45:49 just "we see you are active in Open Source" 10:46:04 Heh 10:46:14 which could be anything from the smallish patches I have in Gnome, to C-INTERCAL 10:47:03 What I find hilarious is how the Google pick-up artists clearly don't go one step further, to "oh you publish stuff relevant to us" 10:47:17 Their whole process is "clearly we don't give a shit about research, but you can be a code monkey, boy" 10:48:05 `quote 1105 10:48:10 well I assumed it was an automated process 10:48:10 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 10:48:38 `run sed -i '1105s/ No output. 10:48:44 ais523_: Not /entirely/. Probably the initial selection is, but if you're polite and reply "no thank you" then you get a human. And further contact. FOREVER. 10:48:45 `quote 1105 10:48:46 1105) For example I don't have the "Magic Missile" spell. how will you attack the darkness By surprise! 10:48:55 * oerjan swats kmc -----### 10:49:07 Gregor: I told them that I was busy doing a PhD, and check back in 4 years 10:49:14 I'm waiting to see if they do or not 10:49:28 ais523_, how is your PhD going? 10:49:48 Taneb: decently, although I'm annoyed at the lack of research to build upon 10:50:07 it feels like I have to do all the fundamental research myself just so that I can do the research I actually want to do 10:50:09 ais523_: Hahaha 10:50:19 If I remember correctly, it's something that I am afraid that I am not particularly interested in 10:50:30 We just sent a 14-page reply letter for reviewer comments about a 12-page paper, in the interests of being thorough. 10:50:37 and meanwhile, my supervisor's asking why I'm writing a paper about formalizing delay-insensitive asynchronous hardware rather than working on my thesis 10:51:17 `run grep '[^ ] <' quotes 10:51:19 IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: First, invent the direct mind-computer interface. Second, learn the rest with your NEW MIND-COMPUTER INTERFACE. \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: there is plenty of room to get head twice at once \ IN AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE: In an alternate universe, I would say "In an alternate universe, 10:51:30 `run grep '[^: ] <' quotes 10:51:32 what's the data of? [...] Locations in a now deceased game called Mutation I have no problems with you being interested in online games but the necrophilia is disturbing \ (in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ GOODBAD! Your wate 10:51:41 `run grep '[^]: ] <' quotes 10:51:43 ​(in #irp) Flonk, ask on #esoteric? Sgeo: yeah well its C++, so not that esoteric :P \ GOODBAD! Your watered down brand of evil conflicts with my botched attempts at dogoodery! \ < ais523> then running repeatedly until you get the right sequence of random numbers < ais523> and just completely ignoring 10:52:10 `run allquotes | grep '[^]: ] <' 10:52:11 1) I used computational linguistics to kill her. \ 2) EgoBot just opened a chat session with me to say "bork bork bork" \ 3) Hmmm... My fingers and tongue seem to be as quick as ever, but my lips have definitely weakened... More practice is in order. \ 4) that's where I got it roc 10:52:17 darn 10:52:43 Taneb: you should be intrested in this stuff anyway, it's interesting! 10:52:55 `run grep '[^]: ] <' quotes | tail 10:52:57 678) Dammit, Gregor, this is not the time to fall in love 187) Gregor: You should never have got her pregnant. what whaaaaaaaaaaaat \ You should get kmc in this channel. kmc has good quotes. `quote kmc 686) COCKS [...] truly cocks Well, in theor 10:53:24 I have a feeling I don't know enough context for its interest to become apparent, ais523_ 10:53:56 Having not yet begun to receive any formal education in computer science 10:54:18 Taneb: well basically it's about type systems that require specific useful-for-hardware properties on programs that type in them 10:54:32 Oooh 10:54:35 things like "there is never more than one copy of this function running concurrently" 10:55:20 (my first lecture is in 3 weeks) 10:56:10 and it's interesting because maths doesn't have a notion of, say, "simultaneously", unless you add it into the type system yourself 10:56:15 `? quoteformat 10:56:17 qdbformat is: message; * nick action; two spaces between messages; all elisions marked with [...] other than irrelevant intervening messages; for messages separated by elision, one space on each side, not two 10:56:26 (nor does it have a notion of causality; forgetting to put causality into your type system is an easy mistake to make) 10:57:07 My first CS lecture will be presented by one of the creators of Haskell 10:57:30 which one? 10:58:02 `echo @ 10:58:04 ​@ 10:58:13 Colin Runciman 10:58:35 Colin is the name for a dog. 10:59:10 @tell kmc `? quoteformat hth ​ 10:59:10 Consider it noted. 11:04:30 ...is it even possible to tear apart the very fabric of reality? 11:05:10 Taneb: even if it is, I wouldn't recommend doing so 11:05:43 It has just struck me how weird that cliché is 11:06:59 Finally worked out /why/ you can get the Fibonacci series from Pascal's triangle <-- wait what 11:07:26 oerjan, right align it and sum the left-down diagonals 11:07:53 Taneb: see the plot to "Schild's Ladder" 11:11:17 -!- yorick has joined. 11:12:11 hm right 11:12:16 btw, has #esoteric seen what's been happening with aimake recently? 11:12:20 it feels like a pretty eso project 11:15:30 the the README doesn't explain the ai part 11:15:33 *-the 11:16:20 oerjan: well it's not really AI 11:16:33 it's a cross between "it figures everything out automatically", and the first two letters of "ais523" 11:16:42 assuming you're looking at my aimake rather than someone else's 11:16:48 oh hm 11:17:35 sorry, went to the top google link, now i see no. 2 is on nethack4.org which seems more promising :P 11:17:40 yeah :) 11:17:43 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:17:52 that one's mine 11:18:09 it was at #2 even before I documented it 11:18:18 so I suspect it'll climb quickly if it starts being used for anything at all but NetHack 4 11:19:14 nah, how can you possibly compete with iOS and android integration, man 11:19:36 (only slightly joking there) 11:19:44 I guess I don't necessarily have to /compete/, I could just add support for them 11:19:52 devious 11:19:53 but that'd mean actually screwing around with mobile dev 11:22:07 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 11:26:44 Right, parts of DF don't really work at 80x25, can anyone suggest a larger but still "nice" terminal size? 11:27:07 G_64xG_64 11:27:58 -!- conehead has joined. 11:27:58 oerjan, "nice" suggests "feasible to run on a modern computer" 11:28:07 I thought "nice" suggested "accurate". 11:28:09 how quaint 11:29:36 fizzie, only for prophecies 11:30:00 i use 80x43 in putty. that's of course the maximal vertical height that fits with my desired font size. 11:30:24 You can have a nice 1920x720 terminal on a modern computer. (Just take a 2x2 grid of 3840x2160 monitors and put a 4x6 font on it.) 11:31:53 i think cassandra would have something to say about nice ~ accurate for prophecies, although no one would believe her of course. 11:32:10 My typical "two terminals" setup here at work seems to be 119x88. 11:47:01 @tell ais523 The HTMLization at http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/documentation.html seems to have made a mungle out of the levels of -v: levels >= 0 are missing the "titles", being just an unordered list. (In fact, the HTML has totally mismatched tags.) 11:47:01 Consider it noted. 11:48:30 Oh I remember dfhack, that game was not bad 11:49:29 Jafet, dfhack is a sort of cheaty tool for Dwarf Fortress 11:50:15 I don't know where you read that. dfhack is an urist management game based on the dwarf fortress simulation engine 11:52:09 -!- ais523_ has joined. 11:52:22 come to think of it, aimake configuration files are probably Turing-complete 11:52:49 Is that like probably polynomial time 11:54:09 ais523_: I sent the underscoreless you a message. 11:54:17 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 11:54:21 @messages 11:54:23 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_. 11:54:39 fizzie: I actually fixed the -v mangle last night 11:54:41 jhust haven't 11:54:45 had a chance to push it yet 11:54:55 basically, pod2html seems really buggy 11:55:08 another bizarre thing it did was add semicolons to the URLs in the GPLv3 11:56:02 The links also include the > character in them, but that's perhaps understandable. 11:56:23 Oh, the semicolons are actually probably leftovers from the ">" that ends in the link. 11:56:44 "-- see <http://www.gnu.org/licenses/>;." 11:56:48 perhaps I should try to find (or write) a less buggy POD to HTML convertor than the one that ships with Perl 11:57:03 and oh wow, that's the worst escaping fail I've seen 11:57:08 it probably parses with regexes or something 11:57:31 I'm thinking it turns the > into > first, and then parses and locates links afterward, with a regex. 11:57:47 And "http://...blah>" looks quite linky. 11:57:59 yeah 11:58:27 the -v mangle is /technically/ my fault 11:58:34 the POD format spec says that you can't mix =item types in a single list 11:58:44 and -2 is free text, 0's a bullet, and 1's a number 11:59:12 I should have written Z<>0 to stop that being a bullet, but apparently pod2html treats that as a bullet anyway 12:00:21 (Z<>'s is pod's arbitrary no-op you use to work around parsing ambiguities) 12:01:26 I do like pod as a markup format, but it has some really nasty corner cases 12:01:43 The conflation of the C++ term "Plain Old Data" and the Perl term "Plain Old Documentation" is distracting. 12:02:59 I guess you could move to POC++O for C++ 12:03:02 just like POJO for Java 12:03:06 ("plain old Java object") 12:03:37 But pod != plain-old-object 12:03:46 In fact, plain-old-data is almost exactly NOT an object. 12:04:09 well yes 12:04:12 no methods 12:04:46 manual.tiff 12:19:39 "Never send chain letters via electronic mail. Chain letters are forbidden on the Internet. Your network privileges will be revoked." 12:20:49 actually, even better: ":-) is an example of a smiley (Look sideways)." 12:22:04 Oh bleh, apparently we're supposed to capitalize and punctuate correctly on IRC too. 12:22:30 `WeLcOmE 12:22:33 WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: HtTp://eSoLaNgS.OrG/WiKi/mAiN_PaGe. (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 12:22:33 or perhaps not 12:22:50 that seems to be for when you're sending messages directly onto someone else's tty using write(1) 12:23:57 -!- Koen_ has joined. 12:24:54 -!- Koen__ has joined. 12:24:54 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:26:06 hmm... this is describing Gopher as new 12:26:14 also the WWW 12:26:32 ais523_: btw the -v list at http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/documentation.html looks like it should have had numbered rather than bulleted points 12:26:50 oerjan: it should be a definition list, and it does start as one 12:26:56 what happens beyond there is a bug in pod2html 12:26:59 -!- TodPunk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:27:09 which I've worked around locally by writing the items as -v-2, -v-1, etc. 12:27:13 -!- TodPunk has joined. 12:27:56 aha, I've found the IRC guidelines here 12:27:58 oops fizzie already mentioned it :) 12:27:59 they seem really sensible 12:28:20 and it seems that people pasting into IRC channels was a problem even in 1995 12:28:26 probably more of one, because pastebins didn't exist back then 12:29:33 -!- carado has joined. 12:39:01 'morning, everyone 12:39:02 ^^ 12:39:08 afternoon Roujo 12:39:16 That too 12:39:53 ais523_, link? 12:39:56 Hello, Roujo 12:40:05 Taneb: to what? 12:40:14 The IRC guidelines? 12:40:20 the netiquette guide I was quoting from is http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1855 12:40:32 it's an RFC, so it's all official and that 12:45:13 Yay for Funet FileSender, 2.6 gigs of stuffs fetched in a hundred seconds. 12:45:31 wow 12:45:31 Speaking of RFCs, I'm still waiting for those style files for fungot. :p 12:45:53 And speaking of fungot... 12:46:26 fungoooooooot! noooooooooo... 12:46:34 fungnoooot 12:46:40 pratchett.freenode.net is being a slow. 12:46:58 "NOTICE * :*** Got Ident response" and then not a thing. 12:47:20 Maybe it was some sort of timeouting open-proxy-check, who knows. 12:47:35 -!- fungot has joined. 12:47:39 it detected the ident as a known fugitive and is now telling Interpol. 12:47:50 *fungutive 12:47:51 fungot: what did you dooooooo? 12:47:52 oerjan: esoteric means not somewhat usable? ( preferrably one that does not have a philly accent! 12:48:17 fungot: hey don't you start agreeing with ais523_ 12:48:17 oerjan: i have a " format" function, how do you duplicate? 12:48:19 ha. philly accents. 12:48:44 why can't fungot agree with me? :-( 12:48:44 ais523_: i have no idea. i can write other of them 12:49:07 that sounded very zzolike 12:49:07 (also RFC 1855 puts the nose in smileys, therefore I now consider this to be official) 12:49:19 ais523_: because then he'll be leaving the channel most of the time! oh wait he's already started! 12:49:25 smileys with noses are ugly 12:49:35 Smileys with noses feel all quaint. 12:49:47 All 90s. 12:49:56 that too 12:50:07 :^) 12:50:14 well, pointy noses are okay 12:50:33 :v) 12:50:57 :3 12:51:04 :4 12:51:09 Wait 12:51:11 :4) 12:51:14 :9 12:51:22 :5 12:51:35 :#) 12:51:36 :420 12:51:40 Is ":5" like "drooling from the side of the mouth"? 12:51:54 Precisely 12:52:05 either that or some serious underbite 12:52:08 fizzie: no that's :2 12:52:37 huh that 2 makes a good gaunt nose 12:52:48 :2V 12:57:14 is there anything new and interesting in esotericland? 12:57:25 Possibly aimake? 12:58:02 well it's not new, I just mentioned it 12:58:06 I think it's TC in configuration 12:58:36 it seems to have everything necessary to be TC, although probably you'd hit a filename limit eventually and run out of storage 12:58:45 perhaps it's doable without touching the filesystem at all 13:00:13 what is aimake 13:00:29 quintopia, ais523_'s make replacement that needs much less config 13:00:59 a drop-in replacement? that sounds useful! 13:01:08 Not drop in 13:01:08 but where do i read about such a thing 13:01:16 From what I have heard, almost drop out 13:01:27 http://nethack4.org/projects/aimake/ 13:02:37 well, it can arguably be drop-in, in that it can entirely ignore the makefile and work anyway 13:03:27 sounds good to me. will it be possible for it to do installation without config eventually? 13:03:59 quintopia, that future is now 13:04:06 oh 13:04:08 well 13:04:11 quintopia: actually it can almost do that now 13:04:13 then that page is otdated 13:04:22 however it sucks at choosing filenames for executables 13:04:25 and yes, that page is outdated 13:04:40 the filename-choosing logic is there, I just haven't hooked it up to the executable installer yet 13:04:59 i see no reason why it would be annoying to specify the filename in the installation command 13:06:09 because I'm used to projects that build multiple executables 13:07:53 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 13:08:06 but how do you go about coming up with filenames automagically? 13:09:02 fn1, fn2, fn3 13:09:03 grep for "namehint" in the config file 13:09:16 basically it works out which files have the largest weight in naming the executable 13:09:24 then takes the common prefix (both filename and directory name) 13:11:15 what does "largest weight" mean 13:11:17 -!- boily has joined. 13:11:24 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:12:13 well it tries to distinguish files that probably contain relevant code, from files that are probably libraries 13:12:29 the heuristic is that a file probably contains relevant code if it contains a main() function or any initialized read-write data 13:14:26 helloily 13:15:06 boillo =) 13:15:21 and namehints are created automagically also? 13:16:20 nothing's created automagically, except sys:, config_rule: and config_option: objects 13:16:30 you can read how they're created in the config file (at the end of the aimake script itself) 13:17:20 so namehints are user provided in the source files? i so confuse 13:17:27 quinthellopia! 13:17:30 Roujon matin! 13:18:19 quintopia: no, they're created by aimake's config file 13:18:23 like everything else in aimake 13:18:32 it's basically a rule engine + a set of rules 13:18:46 hellœrjan. 13:18:48 and the reason it's architected like that is that it makes it much easier to test 13:19:23 if everything's treated the same way, it's much less likely to make it accidentally non-idempotent or accidentally fail to track dependencies correctly or something like that 13:20:08 hoily 13:20:16 so they are created by aimake, but not automatically... 13:20:35 oerjan: about underload's monoidalitude, I'll have to believe you at face value for now. 13:21:12 underload's obviously a monoid 13:21:22 with concatenation being the operation, and the null string the unit 13:22:23 Oh, everything's a monoid to moneyes. 13:22:54 `pastewisdom 13:22:55 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/file/tip/wisdom/ 13:23:05 Also, http://bitbucket.org/GregorR/exc . *runs* 13:23:10 actually I think all concatenative languages are monoids by definition 13:23:12 although brainfuck is a monoid in essentially the same way 13:23:22 Gregor: what is everything to soreyes? 13:23:42 ... soroid? 13:23:51 BF is technically concatenative too, isn't it? 13:23:56 yeah 13:23:58 Gregor, aren't those dinosaurs? 13:24:01 just not in an interesting way 13:24:55 brainfuck behaves too erratically on pre-initialized tape 13:25:11 although there isn't anything stopping you from clearing cells first 13:26:31 i learned today that t-rex lived closer in time to the present day than to the time when stegosaurus lived 13:26:32 yep, it's better than Snowflake in that respect 13:26:51 where by definition, given a suitably initialized stack, any program can do anything whatsoever 13:27:12 hmm... I think it's interesting to draw a distinction between reversible languages, and rereversible languages 13:27:24 then do so 13:27:26 in a reversible language, given a program and an eventual state, you can construct the initial state of the program 13:27:40 in a rereversible language, given a program, there is another program in the same language that undoes its effects 13:27:47 which is a stronger requirement 13:28:30 so rereversible languages might form a group. like burro. or rather, my improvement to burro. 13:29:00 ais523_: that's like the difference between bijection and isomorphism 13:29:29 quintopia: yeah, the original burro didn't form a group because it was reversible but not rereversible 13:29:32 quintopia, I think that any rereversible language forms a group possibly without associativity so not a group at all 13:29:48 or possibly between injection and monomorphism 13:30:28 hm wait no 13:30:34 monomorphism is the same 13:31:01 it's the difference between injection/monomorphism and left invertible 13:32:28 Snowflake has possibly the strongest reversibility I've seen in an esolang (within a single cycle): for each command, there is a specific other command that's both a left and right inverse of it 13:33:13 that's just a group. 13:33:20 (from this, it's immediately impossible to conclude that Snowflake has no infinite loops within a single cycle) 13:33:28 oerjan: well it only has finitely many commands 13:33:48 unlike, say, Burro, where the inverse of a single command can IIRC be multiple commands 13:33:58 it can? 13:34:05 * oerjan doesn't remember 13:34:21 hmm, perhaps not 13:34:26 I don't really remember either 13:34:46 ais523_: did you ever read my suggested improvements to make it form a proper group? 13:35:18 quintopia: I don't think so, and can't find them on the wiki article or talk page 13:35:44 i recall discussing making a language with all basic commands _self_-inverse. 13:36:04 yeah, I recall that being discussed too 13:36:14 Snowflake needed to be reasonably easy to program in, though 13:36:21 ais523_: that's because i posted them on the xkcd fora instead 13:36:24 of course this property is not preserved for composite commands 13:36:26 http://forums.xkcd.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=14986 13:36:44 or at least, I didn't mind making arbitrary changes to make it harder, but I wanted it to be reasonable to write a working program 13:38:06 hmm... it's interesting how close cpressey's fixed conditional in Burro ended up to FORK/SPOON in Snowflake 13:41:31 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Lather). 13:48:51 yay, I only scored 10 that time 13:48:56 also, onoz is pretty interesting as BF derivatives go 13:58:01 scored 10 at? 13:58:17 Life, presumably. Out of 10. Success. 13:58:56 when you assume, you give an ass to Uma Thurman 14:00:10 quintopia: the BF derivative dodging game 14:00:20 basically you keep clicking on random page on Esolang 14:00:30 and count how many BF derivs youu find before you find a language you created 14:00:32 lower is better 14:02:15 could we, like, y'know, like, delete and remove and obliterate and shred to pieces so small you start doing atomic fission the brainfuck derivatives? 14:02:23 ais523_, does Most ever Brainfuckiest Fuck you Brain fucker Fuck count? 14:02:45 Taneb: no 14:02:46 when you assume, you give an ass to Uma Thurman 14:02:50 So? =P 14:03:43 How about I hate your bf-derivative I really do? 14:04:32 I forget what that language is 14:04:40 the counts are only going to be approximate anyway, though 14:04:49 due to judgement calls or clicking too fast 14:04:53 Aaargh, thought I had scored 3 but it was Fugue rather than Fueue 14:06:34 that sort of thing happens all the time to me 14:07:35 I got confused. some languages had a BFDish name, but the language itself was not quite BFDian enough... 14:08:04 Oh come on 14:08:11 I've ended up at the page for me 14:09:08 beautiful 14:09:11 What game is this? =P 14:09:18 the BF derivative dodging game 14:09:25 [15:00] basically you keep clicking on random page on Esolang [15:00] and count how many BF derivs youu find before you find a language you created 14:09:25 ais523_: i would probably get 100 14:09:34 Ah 14:09:42 AFAICT, if you want to do /really/ well, you have to be either cpressey or zzo38 14:09:51 although I hit Taneb before I hit me, usually 14:09:59 So... Infinite score for me? =P 14:10:02 so Taneb's likely to see the opposite results ;) 14:10:17 Roujo: if you have no non-BF-derivative languages, you have to write one so as to not be stuck clicking forever 14:10:31 Yeah, just hit ais523 14:10:38 I have no language, period =P 14:10:50 So yeah. Oops. =P 14:10:56 I guess I know what I have to do now! 14:10:59 Just hit Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download 14:11:03 Final score: 15 14:11:43 maybe we should change the game to be "until you land on your own language or one of cpressey's or Zzo38's" 14:11:53 then we can play a lot faster 14:12:50 Maybe put in bonus points if it's your own language 14:13:08 Well, deduce some points from your total, really 14:13:12 yeah 14:13:13 I'm up to 7 and still haven't hit me >: ( 14:13:17 Since it seems the goal is the get a low score? 14:13:24 although the word you want is deduct 14:13:36 Massive Multiplayer Online Esoteric Brainfuck Derivative Dodge! 14:14:23 quintopia: Nah, I want to use logical axioms to find out what my score is >_> 14:15:01 Roujo: I thought that last sentence was a language idea 14:15:11 until the second time I read it 14:15:20 ^^ 14:16:16 15 and I give up 14:17:47 Gregor: I've scored like 30 before now 14:18:02 Yes, but I'm at work ;) 14:19:20 :) 14:19:42 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:20:01 Wow, just actually scored 3 14:20:30 how many samples would one need to get a statistically safe average that could be published on the user's page? 14:20:32 this game could be scripted, if the brainfuck derivative category were accurate and up-to-date 14:21:56 you wouldn't really need to sample it, you could just calculate 14:22:15 except that MediaWiki's random page command isn't uniformly weighted 14:22:37 basically it assigns a random float between 0 and 1 to each page, then the random page button generates a random float and looks for the next higher float that belongs to a page 14:22:39 and returns that page 14:22:53 Actually, the calculation is simple enough that you don't even need a program. Number of pages in the BF-derivs category divided by number of languages you've made. 14:23:27 oh. right. but I still like my overengineered solution :D 14:23:30 ais523_, doesn't that wind up as roughly uniform weighted for a sufficiently large number of pages? 14:23:45 Taneb: yeah, but some pages will be more heavily weighted than others 14:23:50 Or rather, bfderivs/(bfderivs+yourlangs) 14:24:14 Nowait... oh well, I'm not sure precisely the math apparently X-D 14:24:45 do we count your own BFDes differently than other people's BFDes? do you count them at all? 14:25:07 (own languages) / (1 + own BFD)? 14:25:13 I think the rule is that if you've made BF-derivs, you don't deserve to play the game. 14:25:27 if you hit your own BF deriv, you have to keep going 14:25:47 Taneb: yes. 14:25:51 What if you invented BF? 14:25:54 Does that count? 14:26:00 Roujo, no 14:26:05 Does P'' count? 14:26:29 BF is not a BF derivative 14:26:51 ... 14:26:57 That makes sense, yeah 14:27:12 ais523_: is there a tool that explores the gaps between page's assigned floats to figure out which page is most heavily weighted? 14:27:14 If I hypothetically uploaded the Ook! derivative I wrote when I was 12, would that count? 14:27:30 quintopia: not as far as I know 14:27:45 Taneb: I still count BF derivative derivatives as BF derivatives 14:27:49 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 14:28:10 I think I lost the specs for my Ook! derivative 14:28:56 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:29:05 good 14:30:08 BF', a BF derivative 14:30:17 BA-DUM TSH 14:30:29 =P 14:30:48 We had a similar conversation in another channel 14:32:00 We were thinking of starting a cover band for a K-Pop group called f(x), just so that we could call ourselves df(x)/dx or f'(x) 14:33:00 Roujo, I haven't had much exposure to K-pop, I find the various groups very difficult to differentiate 14:33:01 Taneb, publish it, so i can write a tumblr entry decrying this crime against the perfect language 14:33:20 Phantom_Hoover, I think it's been completely lost now 14:33:32 REWRITE IT 14:33:48 THIS WAS A THIRD OF MY LIFE AGO 14:34:00 I'VE STARTED AND FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL SINCE I LAST READ IT 14:34:16 http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6 14:34:19 Actually, I can vaguely remember what it was like 14:34:27 wow i found something dumber than a brainfuck derivative 14:36:44 Phantom_Hoover: there's a version in a more usual encoding at http://esolangs.org/wiki/%E2%99%A6/~ 14:37:11 i know 14:37:27 Taned: To be honest, I can't really tell either - except for that one band that I like a lot. =P 14:37:31 and seriously, there are languages there that are worse than even the worst bf deriv 14:37:57 name one that isn't in shameful 14:38:02 ais523_, Phantom_Hoover: Like what? =P 14:38:11 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Shameful 14:38:51 Phantom_Hoover: I was going to say Snack, but someone added it to Shameful while I wasn't paying attention 14:38:53 not that I disagree 14:39:21 I seem to miss whatever is U+1A85... 14:39:46 "Esme is an esoteric programming language[citation needed] created by User:Dagoth Ur, Mad God as a lol." 14:39:46 Wow 14:39:48 Just... wow. 14:40:21 Shameful (which officialy does not exist) is reserved for only the very worst languages 14:40:32 like Feather? 14:40:39 well except esme, which is the best 14:40:42 also read the talk page for Esme 14:41:26 Oh. I see =P 14:41:33 oh, i didn't notice quite how awful snack is 14:41:51 i like how there's a command in the reference interpreter which isn't in the spec 14:42:04 i also like how i'm p. sure the reference interpreter shouldn't work at all 14:42:48 perhaps it doesn't? 14:42:49 Wow. Okay, so the bar for my first esolang is pretty low, I guess. =P 14:43:07 "You have eaten as a snack right 2 people." 14:43:09 I think poison is the complete worst. 14:43:10 Roujo: to be fair, it requires a sort of perverse genius to create a language quite that bad 14:43:15 [[PARSING ERROR]] 14:44:31 ais523_: It doesn't even do anything! It doesn't even have a POOP function! 14:44:48 Roujo: I am not debating that that language is bad 14:44:53 =P 14:44:58 there is no point in arguing that that language is bad because everyone will agree with you 14:45:12 I know, I was kidding =P 14:45:14 I disagree about automatically agreeing. 14:48:42 i give up on this game 14:52:52 -!- nooodl has joined. 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has joined. 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 14:57:10 -!- audioPhil has joined. 14:58:10 henooodllo. 14:58:18 `relcome audioPhil 14:58:21 ​audioPhil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 14:58:43 -!- augur has joined. 15:01:36 wow, what a colorful welcome 15:01:38 thanks 15:02:06 `welcome audioPhil 15:02:08 audioPhil: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:02:10 There are also non-ridiculous versions. 15:02:54 `bienvenue audioPhil 15:02:55 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bienvenue: not found 15:02:58 D: 15:03:10 `run ls bin 15:03:12 ​` \ ! \ ? \ ¿ \ @ \ ؟ \ WELCOME \ \ \ aaaaaaaaa \ addquote \ addwep \ allquotes \ anonlog \ aseen \ bienvenido \ botsnack \ bseen \ calc \ CaT \ catcat \ cats \ complain \ complaints \ danddreclist \ define \ delquote \ e \ emmental \ emoclew \ emptylist \ erflist \ etymology \ forget \ fortune \ freedom \ frink \ fsck \ fu 15:03:35 `run catcat 15:03:37 No output. 15:03:39 ... 15:03:42 Welp 15:06:23 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:08:19 it seems like half the activity of this channel is creating new, ridiculous sorts of welcome sometimes 15:08:25 `emoclew zzo38 15:08:27 ​(.ten.lad.cri no ciretose# yrt ,aciretose fo dnik rehto eht roF) .egaP_niaM/ikiw/gro.sgnalose//:ptth :ikiw ruo tuo kcehc ,noitamrofni erom roF !tnemyolped dna ngised egaugnal gnimmargorp ciretose rof buh lanoitanretni eht ot emocleW :83ozz 15:08:47 `relcome is one of the more popular ones, though 15:08:51 ​is: one: of: the: more: popular: ones,: though: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 15:08:58 ais523_: Don't forget the part where I cat stuff for no good reason 15:09:04 `run cat cat | cat 15:09:06 Meow~~ 15:13:10 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 15:14:06 And thus the cuttle died 15:27:43 @tell boily http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/scicurious-brain/2013/09/16/ignobels-2013-who-ate-the-dead-shrew-for-science/ 15:27:44 Consider it noted. 15:32:58 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 15:33:13 -!- Bike has joined. 15:39:42 -!- FreeFull has joined. 15:46:10 -!- conehead has joined. 15:47:27 -!- ais523_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:00:58 Bike: I deny the parboiled shrew. 16:07:31 Roujo: Actually, there can be a purpose to | cat. 16:07:35 isatty(1) 16:14:13 there are things which like paging themselves unnecessarily 16:19:24 Gregor: Well yeah. I just don't really do it for a good reason, that's all 16:20:22 looking at you, git 16:20:40 Gracenotes: Hahaha, 'struth. 16:20:42 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 16:23:01 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 16:23:13 -!- audioPhil has joined. 16:25:18 I can see use for | cat -e 16:26:00 But "cat -e" is an abomination, is it not? 16:26:21 (Not to mention oh so POSIX-incompliant.) 16:27:26 `run man cat -e 16:27:28 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 16:27:32 Well crap 16:28:40 Oh gawd, cat -e is Satan incarnate. 16:29:04 Gregor: What do you think of cat -n then?-) 16:29:16 *sobs* 16:29:38 Even the solitary option that POSIX specifies (-u) is ridiculous. 16:29:39 cat --checkmail 16:30:21 `run man cat | grep '-e' 16:30:23 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config \ grep: option requires an argument -- 'e' \ Usage: grep [OPTION]... PATTERN [FILE]... \ Try `grep --help' for more information. 16:30:28 cat --system echo hi # equivalent to echo hi | cat 16:32:34 henooodllo. <-- good stealth greeting i didn't notice 16:32:44 -!- S1 has joined. 16:33:55 Did anyone ever try to implement QuickSort in Brainfuck? 16:34:08 Cause that is what I am trying to do. 16:35:03 I'l bet you anything that several ones did 16:35:23 I just need to find them. That's why I'm asking 16:35:40 Well I don't NEED to. Would be just fine. 16:35:44 on the other hand, every one here knows brainfuck and everyone here knows quicksort 16:35:53 what can we do you for? 16:36:30 Nothing. I was just asking ^^ But you can look at my program so far if you want. 16:36:35 sure 16:36:38 There's a StackExchange challenge for it, with one accepted answer. 16:36:57 (It's eminently findable with the search terms of "brainfuck quicksort".) 16:37:34 I think the hard part is if you're sorting an array in-place you need to remember the begin and end indexes of every sub-array you're "recursively" sorting 16:38:38 `relcome S1 16:38:38 can i just code it in c and use the c to bf compiler 16:38:41 ​S1: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 16:38:56 Nah that'd be cheatin 16:39:49 I split the array in two, then recursively run the programm on each of the new two arrays. 16:40:01 I think someone had a nice environment wwhere you could name variables and stuff 16:40:17 and then it replaces with the appropriate amount of > and < 16:40:17 I split it by moving the right part a few cells, so that there is some space in between. 16:40:25 NO CHEATING! 16:40:28 http://31.media.tumblr.com/c33227832138905c415ff573eae65a91/tumblr_msv9kcrYxt1sgh0voo1_500.png beware. 16:40:30 https://github.com/pikhq/pebble 16:40:58 if i write the compiler myself can it be not cheating 16:41:50 You mean you want to write a c to bf compiler in bf? Well if you can do that without using one from the internet and without writing the c to bf compiler in c and then compiling it to bf it's ok. 16:41:54 would it be cheating to build a boat to enter a swimming contest? 16:42:20 Koen__: Depends if you're swimming in BF-derivates, I'd guess 16:42:23 of course 16:42:25 Bike: I think it's ok for you to write your own compiler yourself... but you're not allowed to compile it using another compiler 16:42:30 what i if i write a c to bf compiler in c and use it to compile itself into bf 16:42:46 pretty sure that wouldn't work 16:42:49 Come on I think I made myself clear :D NO COMPILERS 16:42:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:42:56 these requirements seem rather arbitrary! 16:43:15 truly, can we not say that i myself am a compiler of a description of an algorithm into brainfuck 16:43:39 if that were true we'd have to kill you 16:43:53 what! 16:44:03 No because you don't translate one thing to another but think about HOW to implement it in bf 16:44:23 For the case: Human compilers allowed -_- 16:44:37 doesn't "implementing program A in language B" mean compiling? 16:44:43 "if you meet a compiler on the road, pkill it" -- lin chi 16:44:46 I dont think so 16:45:34 S1, no, it does 16:45:48 hey is there a simple "move n cells to the right" algorithm in brainfuck? where n is the content of the current cell (and you don't want to destroy it) 16:46:50 somehow i doubt it 16:47:21 by moving the tape you lose all information on the content of n, essentially 16:47:21 can there be blank cells between the cells that are to be moved or am I allowed to create it? 16:48:04 so maybe it would be a good idea to use every other cell for the array, and every other cell to store intermediate stuff to move along the array 16:48:06 nothing on http://esolangs.org/wiki/brainfuck_algorithms 16:48:07 I think I don't get the problem exactly. Please write an example. A state before the program and a state after it. 16:48:08 how terrible. 16:48:33 in brainfuck you can only move information a bit at a time, i guess 16:48:55 and that bit has to correspond to whether or not some cell is zeroed 16:49:31 you could probably write something to turn n{n{0}} into 0{n{1}} [totally appropriate use of verilog syntax 16:49:34 ] 16:49:35 ]]]]]] 16:50:06 you know I'm very uncomfortable with unmatched brackets 16:50:15 « 16:50:54 ... 16:51:12 » 16:51:21 pfiouuuu 16:52:20 s/\[/\]/g 16:52:33 ...that looks so wrongm 16:52:35 -m 16:52:53 I'm not sure if that's what your verilog syntax meant but you could turn (n)(x)(0) into (0)(x)(n-1) if every other cell is a tmp cell 16:53:23 if you have a bunch of tmp cells it's easy 16:53:27 and thus you've moved two cells right and the content of the current cell has been decreased; repeat until it's 0 and you're there 16:53:46 Phantom_Hoover: when I write the whole brainfuck program, I've got AN INFINITY of tmp cells 16:54:01 it's so easy i'm confused why you asked 16:55:03 but that's horribly slow 16:55:24 you need n^2 operations to move n cells 16:55:40 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:55:52 you know what screw brainfuck, I'm gonna write a sorting algorithm in thue 16:56:04 True? 16:56:26 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Thue 16:57:05 wow... 16:58:35 Koen__: i'm fascinated about subleq right now 16:59:48 subtract and lsomething if equal 17:00:03 subtract and branch if less than or equal to? 17:00:14 zero, yes 17:00:35 basically, everything is a pointer 17:01:08 it's one instruction set computing 17:05:02 -!- Bike has joined. 17:05:16 huh? my bot is dead??? 17:05:24 Yup 17:05:27 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:05:27 RIP Cuttlefish 17:05:31 Or not 17:05:35 ~yi 17:05:35 Your divination: "Small Accumulating" to "Attending" 17:05:36 rip. 17:06:07 * boily pats his bot “Good bot. Yes you are.” 17:08:36 ~duck cheese 17:08:36 cheese definition: a food consisting of the coagulated, compressed, and usually ripened curd of milk separated from the whey. 17:09:00 Now that doesn't sound very appetizing >_> 17:09:02 -!- augur has joined. 17:09:28 ~duck tendon 17:09:28 tendon definition: a tough cord or band of dense white fibrous connective tissue that unites a muscle with some other part (as a bone) and transmits the force which the muscle exerts. 17:09:49 when tendon sounds yummier than cheese, there's a problem. 17:10:19 (of course, tendon in phở is good, but that's besides the point.) 17:11:46 I'm kinda disappointed 17:11:59 I've been looking for some thue-like that would accept variables 17:12:16 that is, some kind of pattern-matching 17:12:52 variables how? 17:12:56 Why do I feel like we've had this conversation before 17:13:43 well variables may not be the best name 17:13:49 regular expressions maybe 17:13:59 Roujo: because Koen__ likes variables. 17:14:08 we've had, Roujo 17:14:19 so I've looked up thutu and thubi 17:14:24 aaaaaaaaand well 17:14:25 With the tendon part as well 17:14:37 the closest thing to what I'm looking for is http://esolangs.org/wiki/Definer 17:15:11 `pastlogs tendon 17:15:13 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: pastlogs: not found 17:15:18 `pastlog tendon 17:15:50 No output. 17:16:04 Roujo: no, we never talked about tendons beforehand. 17:16:19 Koen__: Definer has a very l-system feel. 17:16:39 `pastlog ~duck 17:16:54 2013-08-12.txt:18:43:00: ~duck i-esse-erre j'ai dit! 17:17:05 Pretty sure that didn't work 17:18:18 ~duck ISR 17:18:18 isr definition: Israel; Israeli. 17:18:46 ~duck asl 17:18:46 ASL+ - An algebraic specification language by David Aspinall of the University of Edinburgh. 17:21:05 boily: ok maybe 17:21:20 on the other hand, I think all string-rewriting systems kinda feel alike 17:23:43 boily: in fact l-system looks a lot more like Thue than Definer, in my opinion 17:25:30 hmm... 17:25:42 * boily strokes his sandpapery beard stubble... 17:29:00 indeed. 17:31:23 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 17:32:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 17:35:03 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 17:35:13 boily: Quite, quite 17:40:33 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 17:40:36 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:40:44 Hi 17:40:56 Anothello ^^ 17:41:41 ais523: would you say that, the ultimate purpose of a Snowflake program is to essentially produce an interpreter that does all of the work? 17:41:59 AnotherTest: yes 17:42:21 Well, I think it's an interesting language 17:42:28 although I don't fully understand the threads 17:42:36 it took me a while to understand them too 17:43:01 basically the idea is that fork splits every thread, spoon joins the split bunches, a thread can split into 0 threads but those 0 threads can still be split and joined 17:43:27 do threads run in parallel as well or is that not a requirement? 17:43:27 but some entity (the shabby/decrepit threads) has to be added to track when that happens 17:43:39 it's unobservable whether they run in parallel or in order 17:43:44 but the spec assumes they run in parallel 17:43:50 *in sequence 17:44:40 well, what I specifically do not understand in the different types of threads (shabby, tarnished, shiny and deprecated) 17:44:49 *decrepit, sorry 17:46:10 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:46:29 so, as far as I understand, you start with a single thread (which appearantly needs to have a parent as well, so you actually start with an infinite amount of threads?) 17:46:48 then that thread can be split by a fork command 17:46:56 As I recall, it's threads all the way up =P 17:47:30 * boily lobs a mine-turtle over at Roujo 17:47:38 I just don't really see what's up with all the different types of threads 17:48:40 OK, say I have a thread and I split it into two threads 17:48:51 then I split one of those threads into 3, and the other into 0 17:48:55 then I split each of those 3 into 2 17:49:06 the group of 0 threads has to also split into 0, again 17:49:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:49:14 then I can undo those splits and should end up with the original organization 17:49:22 it's quite hard to track anything about a group of 0 threads 17:49:26 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 17:49:31 so I use a group of 1, with a different adjective, instead 17:50:13 Nice 17:50:37 how does splitting into 0 threads work? 17:50:44 halt? 17:51:08 is that like not actually splitting it 17:51:20 (although adding a new 0 thread) 17:51:33 AnotherTest: basically you just add a shabby thread 17:51:36 which represents the group of 0 17:51:52 and it's pretty useful, you can use it to do conditionals 17:51:52 "Is adding 0 to a number the same as not doing anything at all?" ~ Mao 17:51:59 i must say i think of shabbiness as a property of ropes, not threads 17:52:02 Bike: can't halt in a rereversible language 17:52:25 is that different from reversibility 17:52:46 Bike: it's different in that in a reversible language, the steps to reverse it don't have to exist within the language itself 17:54:15 ais523: so what's the type of a non-zero thread? Do those have a type at all. Or is it not the sero thread that this given this type? 17:54:36 basically, running threads are shiny 17:55:10 "There is no facility for entering comments, due for the tendency for documentation to get out of date quickly" i must say you do some crazy stuff 17:55:11 threads that running threads split from (and that running threads will eventually join into) are tarnished 17:55:11 groups of 0 that would be currently running if they had any threads are shabby 17:55:11 and groups of 0 that more groups of 0 have been split from are decrepit 17:57:21 i see this is a snowflake discussion 17:57:26 i wish snowflake made sense 17:57:34 so, you start with a tarnished thread? 17:57:53 AnotherTest: you start with a shiny thread 17:57:57 with infinitely many tarnished parents 17:58:03 ah, I see 17:58:25 Ok, I get that so far. I still don't get the decrepit and shappy threads though :( 17:58:51 basically say I try to run FORK, with an empty list at TOS 17:58:51 Split a shiny thread to 0 children -> 1 Shabby thread 17:58:59 * quintopia faxes boily a treasure chest 17:59:03 yeah, it splits into 0 children, which has to be tracked somehow 17:59:06 Split a tarnished thread to 0 children -> 1 Decrept thread 17:59:10 Decrepit* 17:59:16 so we create a shabby thread that basically just sits there and stops its parent running 17:59:22 ah, I see 17:59:26 until you SPOON 17:59:31 what happens when you split a decrept thread though 17:59:36 `addquote until you SPOON 17:59:40 quintopia: AAAAAAAAAAURGH! need to mail the biscuits! 17:59:40 1106) until you SPOON 17:59:50 AnotherTest: they don't split 17:59:52 because they aren't running 17:59:57 only the shiny and shabby threads split 18:00:05 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 18:00:29 it's okay, i haven't gone to gorham yet. i'm probably a week away still 18:01:04 Ah, I think I understand now 18:01:14 good. 18:01:21 interseting, but crazy 18:01:28 *interesting 18:01:30 besides, I think that's the closest I can get to mailing something to a *ham. 18:02:02 boily: What if you mailed a ham to somewhere strange? 18:02:53 uhm. considering my mail karma, I don't think it's a good idea. 18:02:59 What if elliott mailed SIX hams to somewhere stranger. 18:03:13 Gregor: That's overkill and you know it D: 18:03:15 * boily still remembers that time where we tried to mail yak cheese from China... 18:03:35 "Express? Nahh, it's already rotten milk, how bad can it get?" 18:03:53 Gregor: i c wut you did thar 18:04:17 Glad somebody did. 18:04:34 * boily curses Gregor 18:04:37 ... 18:04:43 I missed it >_> 18:04:51 Oh 18:04:53 OH 18:05:09 boily: No soap, radio! 18:05:23 * Roujo laughs, everybody laughs, nobody knows why 18:05:42 not cool, not funny, not a good joke 18:05:43 Roujo: the problem is that the punchline is starting to become legitimately funny in random contexts through association 18:05:51 which completely destroys its original purpose 18:06:03 which by itself is becoming an antiantijoke. 18:06:09 So... Soap, no radio? 18:07:12 (Soap -> Void) -> Radio 18:08:01 Void is Haskell's name for the uninhabited type, right? 18:08:08 ~duck void 18:08:08 void definition: not occupied. 18:08:15 ais523: the duck agrees. 18:08:40 `unicode WHITE SQUARE 18:08:42 ​□ 18:08:55 `unicode SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 18:08:57 ​⛄ 18:09:05 Crap, the square isn't the same! 18:09:34 `unicode BLACK SQUARE 18:09:36 ​■ 18:09:36 `unicode WHITE MEDIUM SMALL SQUARE 18:09:38 ​◽ 18:09:42 hey, that looks white 18:09:42 I think that's it 18:09:45 not black 18:09:50 ah what 18:09:52 heh? `unicode is a new command? 18:09:57 `unicode yes 18:09:59 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'yes'" 18:10:00 `cat bin/unicode 18:10:02 ​#!/usr/bin/env python \ import sys \ import unicodedata \ \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") 18:10:10 `unicode a 18:10:11 OK, yet another reason Python's whitespace thing sucks 18:10:11 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'a'" 18:10:16 oooooooooh. 18:10:28 ùnicode A 18:10:30 ... 18:10:32 `unicode LATIN SMALL LETTER A 18:10:34 a 18:10:39 I saw a post on a forum a while back which was meant to be Python but the whitespace was destroyed by the forum software… 18:10:48 Roujo: do you use dead keys on your keyboard? 18:10:48 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER X 18:10:50 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK SMALL LETTER X'" 18:10:54 you probably have to type ` space unicode 18:11:04 `unicode GREEK ZETA 18:11:06 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'GREEK ZETA'" 18:11:07 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER CHI 18:11:08 ​χ 18:11:20 `unicode GREEK SMALL LETTER ZETA 18:11:22 ​ζ 18:11:37 ais523: Yeah, that's what I'm supposed to do 18:11:49 I just forget it often, since I don't need to do it to `run stuff 18:12:01 hmm 18:12:06 I should map all of my keys + Alt Gr to greek equivalents 18:12:10 it seems there's an ŕ, but you need to use combining characters to backquote an r 18:12:14 But then again, that's by design, probably =P 18:12:17 err, grave an r 18:12:23 What's a dead key? =P 18:12:44 Roujo: key with an accent that you press in order to accent the next letter you type 18:12:46 Roujo: si t'es sur le layout canadien français, c'est les touches qui font un accent, puis que t'appuies sur une autre touche après. 18:14:18 `unicode HEBREW SMALL LETTER ALEPH 18:14:20 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW SMALL LETTER ALEPH'" 18:14:20 Cool, cool 18:14:29 ais523, boily: Yeah, I have dead keys then 18:14:38 They just don't work on consonants =P 18:14:44 ok, maybe aleph is not a small letter 18:14:54 àèìòù, but `b`c`d 18:14:58 `unicode HEBREW ALEPH 18:15:00 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW ALEPH'" 18:15:04 `unicode HEBREW LETTER ALEPH 18:15:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'HEBREW LETTER ALEPH'" 18:15:09 I give up 18:15:25 why can't hackego like grep around for the closest thing that matches... 18:15:35 `unicode CANADIAN SYLLABICS OY 18:15:36 ​ᢰ 18:16:03 `unicode UNMARRIED PARTNERSHIP SYMBOL 18:16:05 ​⚯ 18:16:06 quintopia: As you know full well, HackEgo can do only what you tell it to. 18:16:13 exact;y 18:16:19 `unicode COMBINING ENCLOSING UPWARD POINTING TRIANGLE 18:16:20 ​⃤ 18:16:23 and sometimes it can't even do that 18:16:27 `run df -h . 18:16:29 df: Warning: cannot read table of mounted file systems: No such file or directory \ Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on \ - 23G 22G 28M 100% /hackenv 18:16:42 Yikes >_> 18:16:50 what's taking up all that space anyway? 18:16:55 Cats, probabl y 18:16:56 `run du --si / 18:16:58 0/sys/fs/ext4/features \ 0/sys/fs/ext4 \ 0/sys/fs/cgroup \ 0/sys/fs \ 0/sys/bus/cpu/devices \ 0/sys/bus/cpu/drivers \ 0/sys/bus/cpu \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource/devices \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource/drivers \ 0/sys/bus/clocksource \ 0/sys/bus/platform/devices \ 0/sys/bus/platform/drivers/uml-blkdev \ 0/sys/bus/platform/drivers/alarmtimer \ 0/sys 18:17:03 that was useful 18:17:06 `run du --si / | sort -n 18:17:15 it's probably going to time out :( 18:17:30 `unicode MONGOLIAN FREE VARIATION SELECTOR THREE 18:17:33 ​᠍ 18:17:37 du: cannot read directory `/proc/tty/driver': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/fdinfo': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/task/1/ns': Permission denied \ du: cannot read directory `/proc/1/fd': Permission denied \ du: cannot read dir 18:17:46 `run du / 2>/dev/null | sort -n 18:18:08 ais523: You won't be able to tell what's taking up the space because you can only see a tiny portion of a chroot. 18:18:10 (normally you have to worry about reading /proc or the like, but the HackEgo sandbox means that everything is fine) 18:18:17 No output. 18:18:22 Gregor: oh, I assumed it meant the /chroot/ was full 18:18:37 I assumed the sandbox wouldn't be able to see outside its own filesystem even with df 18:18:43 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 18:18:45 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM '" 18:18:48 Awwww 18:19:09 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:19:12 ais523: Naw, df is just mounted fs. The chroot has no quota anyway. 18:19:29 -!- DHeadshot has joined. 18:19:31 well then the chroot might /actually/ be full 18:19:35 and probably should be quota'd 18:19:56 Naw, there's no point in quotaing the chroot. Quotaing HackEgo, yes. 18:22:36 `run chroot oerjan/ 18:22:39 bash: /hackenv/bin/chroot: Permission denied 18:22:41 `quota 18:22:43 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: quota: not found 18:22:55 what's the sandbox built on these days? 18:23:05 `run chroot oerjan/ 18:23:07 Meow~~ 18:23:47 is there not a command or whatever for telling you the free space left in a filesystem 18:23:50 -!- DHeadshot has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:23:59 quintopia: umlbox, like it has been for quite a long time. 18:24:09 Phantom_Hoover: Uh, yeah, df -h, like I ran two minutes ago. 18:24:11 ah that's what it's called 18:25:50 -!- variable has changed nick to trout. 18:26:02 -!- mnoqy has joined. 18:29:49 `unicode HEBREW LETTER ALEF 18:30:05 ​א 18:30:07 hth 18:30:48 `unicode ALEF SYMBOL 18:30:50 ah, alef, not aleph 18:30:56 ​ℵ 18:31:14 `unicode ALF 18:31:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'ALF'" 18:31:21 -!- Zuu_ has joined. 18:31:57 `unicode '; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS;-- 18:32:02 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name ''; DROP TABLE CHARACTERS;--'" 18:32:21 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 18:32:23 ​ﯹ 18:32:34 -!- Zuu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:56 `unicode SNOWMAN WITHOUT SNOW 18:32:57 ​⛄ 18:33:12 `unicode SUNSET OVER BUILDINGS 18:33:14 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'SUNSET OVER BUILDINGS'" 18:33:14 `unicode RANDOM CAPSLOCKED WORDS 18:33:17 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'RANDOM CAPSLOCKED WORDS'" 18:33:18 `unicode TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE 18:33:19 `unicode TIBETAN MARK GTER YIG MGO -UM GTER TSHEG MA 18:33:19 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE'" 18:33:20 ​༃ 18:33:29 `unicode UMBRELLA 18:33:30 ​☂ 18:33:34 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAINDROPS 18:33:35 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UMBRELLA WITH RAINDROPS'" 18:33:36 http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/1f307/index.htm um excuse me. 18:33:38 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAIN 18:33:40 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'UMBRELLA WITH RAIN'" 18:33:40 `unicode UMBRELLA WITH RAIN DROPS 18:33:42 ​☔ 18:33:43 Hey, now! TEACUP WITHOUT HANDLE is U+1F375. 18:33:45 There we go 18:34:03 `unicode FIZZIE WITHOUT HANDLE 18:34:05 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'FIZZIE WITHOUT HANDLE'" 18:34:10 `unicode GEAR WITHOUT HUB 18:34:11 ​⛭ 18:34:16 `unicode FACE WITHOUT MOUTH 18:34:17 🍵 18:34:18 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unicode", line 5, in \ print u"".join(map(unicodedata.lookup, sys.argv[1:])).encode("utf-8") \ KeyError: "undefined character name 'FACE WITHOUT MOUTH'" 18:34:23 That, too, should exist. 18:34:31 nooodl: uhm. why would anyone need that. 18:34:31 (Time to upgrade the Unicode database?) 18:35:13 any appropriate ASCII symbol for "xor" that's not ^? 18:35:49 "(+)" if you can go with multiple characters? 18:36:09 AnotherTest: ⊗ U+2297. 18:36:12 yes, I can gowith multiple characters 18:36:21 boily: not unicode 18:36:32 oh. right. 18:36:38 I don't really know about (+), it's kind of silly. 18:36:48 maybe "xor" is just fine 18:37:41 `unicode XOR 18:37:43 ​⊻ 18:37:51 Wait, that's not ASCII 18:37:52 NEVERMIND 18:38:02 (But still, apparently that's a thing) 18:39:45 Maybe ↑, that's ASCII(-1963). (Except it's really for NAND.) 18:40:07 NAND = XOR for some values, doesn't it? 18:40:10 Close enough for me 18:40:27 For most values, even. 18:40:37 AnotherTest: != 18:40:49 There's always >< too. 18:40:56 Wooo, nice 18:41:01 >|< 18:41:09 =>|<= 18:42:30 are there any 4+ punctuation symbol operators defined in the currently available Haskell libraries, or have the multiple developers stuck to at most three-character-wide ops? 18:43:19 something ridiculensous, like ~+^.? 18:43:29 lens has a few 18:43:34 like ^@!? 18:43:47 and <<.~ 18:43:53 >_> 18:44:07 <<%@= 18:44:09 Haskell is the new perl. 18:44:14 haskell is the gnu perl 18:44:16 this isn't all of them, mind you. just a few 18:44:18 there's a whole bunch 18:44:37 Uikku syö muikun. 18:45:15 oui qu'où sue eux mou y coup ne? 18:45:46 boily: je ne même pas 18:46:12 Roujo: google translate is no help here. «Grebe manger corégone.» 18:46:46 Corégone is best gone 18:47:10 boily: That seems to have been mostly correct. 18:47:41 fizzie: the English version has “whitefish” replacing the «corégone», and the verb is correctly conjugated. 18:48:08 ~duck grebe 18:48:08 A grebe is a member of the Podicipediformes order, a widely distributed order of freshwater diving birds, some of which visit the sea when migrating and in winter. 18:48:13 Well, French-to-English "corégone" says "whitefish", too. 18:48:31 fizzie: I have a feeling it's a Traditional Old Finnish Proverb in Harmony with Nature or Something Like That. 18:48:39 No, it's just nonsense. 18:49:00 * boily slaps a humid salmon on fizzie 18:49:41 But fi:uikku -> grebe, fi:muikku -> vendace (which, I believe, is a kind of whitefish). 18:49:53 And of course they have that similarity. 18:50:31 And those birds do eat fish. I'm not a 100% on whether they eat that particular kind. 18:51:13 incidentally, whitefishes are a kind of salmonidæs. 18:51:36 lake trout: no lake, no trout 18:51:56 o>O 18:52:07 * trout slaps kmc with a large salmon 18:52:19 You might want to get that nose checked, trout 18:53:03 > let (<+?.*<$>?@%?.*<$>) = const in 3 <+?.*<$>?@%?.*<$> 4 18:53:04 3 18:53:33 the fuck am i reading 18:55:05 the fungot am I reading 18:55:06 kmc: shouldn't ghc substitute enough things at compile time it gives " fnord" in there, either. 18:56:42 myname: you didn't see that. your brain is playing tricks on your eyes. fnord. hth. 18:56:50 boily: Oh, incidentally, for ridiculous operators... XMonad.Layout.LayoutCombinators introduces *||*, **||*, ***||*, ****||*, ***||**, ****||***, ***||****, *||****, **||***, *||*** and *||**, plus all those with either //, | or / in place of the ||. 18:57:00 oh, how i missed that hth here all the time 18:57:07 fizzie: what. 18:57:22 boily: http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/xmonad-contrib/0.11/doc/html/XMonad-Layout-LayoutCombinators.html 18:57:53 ascii operator art. well, I'll be damned. 18:57:53 The number of stars gives the ratio in which screen space is divided. 18:58:08 that is so wrong on so many levels. 18:58:31 (And || vs // is vertical/horizontal, and two-vs-one separator is draggable-or-not.) 18:58:42 (****||***) = combineTwo (dragPane Vertical 0.1 (4/7)) 18:58:57 completely, utterly disgusting and horrendous. 18:59:11 but what if i want 5/13? 18:59:36 myname: Then you're outta luck, I'm afraid. 18:59:52 http://thecodelesscode.com/case/109 19:00:01 maybe i should introduce *****||******** 19:01:07 boily: Also the <&&> and <||> in XMonad.ManageHook (part of the core XMonad) do (just barely) fill your "4+ punctuation" requirement. 19:01:37 ((<&&>) = liftM2 (&&), and the same for ||.) 19:01:40 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:01:59 maybe I should put the threshold at 4.5 characters, as <&&> and <||> seem reasonable. 19:02:21 fizzie: ah, I correctly guessed their purpose. the applicative/monadic variant of && and ||. 19:03:07 boily: XMonad.Hooks.ManageHelpers comes with <==?, >, and -?>> too. (I think I've used that last one, which is why I remembered to go look for it.) 19:03:28 8==> 19:04:18 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:04:20 we have left fat arrow, left weird existential fat arrow, right lean prickly arrow, right questioning prickly arrow, and then we have myname's dangling arrow. 19:05:16 don't get me wrong, i really like haskell 19:05:23 but... 19:06:44 ~fortune 19:06:44 Conservative, n: 19:06:44 A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished 19:06:44 from the Liberal who wishes to replace them with others. 19:06:44 -- Ambrose Bierce, "The Devil's Dictionary" 19:07:17 -!- audioPhil has quit (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.). 19:07:44 -!- audioPhil has joined. 19:07:49 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 19:07:49 -!- audioPhil has joined. 19:12:29 hm. it's been a long time since I've asked the The Question to anybody. I feel... weird. 19:14:30 Ask me! 19:14:32 ASK ME! 19:17:18 oh well... Roujo, what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 19:17:34 null 19:17:36 Wait 19:17:38 Wait wait 19:17:40 That wasn't it 19:17:46 My script just didn't work TT_TT 19:18:01 oh. your 何マクロ. 19:18:20 I'd /nani you, but I've heard that *that* script somehow PMs everyone in the channel 19:18:23 So meh =P 19:19:01 if your script has that very interesting side-effect, maybe you could have a /hth >:) 19:20:01 [kornbluth.freenode.net][421] Roujo hth :Unknown command 19:20:03 Roujo: btw, could I get a real body weigh for your entry? I only have "403", without any unit. 19:20:35 403: Forbidden? =P 19:21:23 * boily prods Roujo with an automated squirrel feeder 19:21:35 180 lbs, then =P 19:21:37 -!- conehead has joined. 19:21:42 More or less - it's been a while 19:21:56 merci! 19:22:04 Pas de probl 19:22:06 ème =) 19:27:16 I used a tanebvention with actual results. 19:27:19 `thanks Taneb 19:27:21 Thanks, Taneb. Thaneb. 19:27:45 Any time, boily 19:28:03 Any toily. 19:31:16 `thanks 19:31:17 Thanks, . T. 19:31:21 -!- Bike has joined. 19:31:34 :O 19:32:05 `thanks 19:32:07 Thanks, . T. 19:32:50 Bikello. 19:33:24 `bike hello 19:33:25 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: bike: not found 19:33:31 ok 19:33:58 We really should make it so that `run executes a random program if the correct one isn't found 19:35:23 or: no 19:35:38 that way lies php 19:36:11 `? php 19:36:13 PHP is preferred by 9 out of 10 idiots, and past elliott. Ask your GP today! [Website redacted] 19:36:27 elliott: what really 19:36:35 elliott: do you certify randomizing unknown HackEgo commands will lead to PHP? 19:36:43 -!- audioPhil has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:37:16 Bike: I started programming with PHP. 19:37:29 hm 19:37:35 when I was 8 19:37:36 i wonder if that's worse than starting with qbasic 19:37:37 elliott: have you recovered? 19:37:38 i'm thining yes 19:37:52 qbasic is a pretty good way to start, I think 19:37:53 I started with GW-BASIC. 19:38:15 it was nice how my normal windows system already had qbasic so i didn't have to deal with installing anything. 19:38:24 I started with BBC Basic, unless you count pressing random keys in front of a Pascal interpreter when I was a baby 19:38:37 compiler+IDE, not interp 19:38:45 does windows have any built in ides nowadays? 19:38:50 somebody, think of the children. 19:38:54 I started with Visual Basic 2005 19:39:23 Bike: does powershell count? 19:39:35 eh... i guess. 19:39:40 ais523, I sort of remember pressing random keys on my dad's computer when I was 3 or 4 19:39:46 Don't know what they would have done 19:39:55 most likely, not a lot 19:40:05 I started with BASIC on a TRS-80 ^^ 19:40:17 I was good at filling screens full of text manually 19:40:24 if you want to talk about random keys i was trying to make a Frogger sequel in actionwhatever when i was like eight :p 19:40:38 Copying pages of code from books I got at the library 19:40:40 have you ever seen animation of a plane crashing made by a child in ms paint 19:40:42 good stuff imo 19:40:43 Somehow, that was fun ^^ 19:43:17 Roujo: I still have mine, somewhere at my parents'. 19:44:41 =) 19:45:15 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:47:03 oerjan: tell us about your childhood BASIC experiences. 19:47:41 oerjan: Please do 19:49:14 well, like, my dad is a (now retired) telecom engineer, and way back he went on this BASIC course, i think. 19:49:47 so he brought back a BASIC textbook (in swedish) 19:50:04 which means that i actually learned basic before i ever used a computer. 19:50:56 i vaguely recall i even wrote a complex number calculator of sorts. iirc still without a computer. 19:50:57 Wow 19:50:57 Nice 19:51:09 i'm a bit unclear about that part. 19:53:07 at one point my dad brought home a printer with a modem, with which we connected to a computer server of the telecom service. this was my first hands on computer experience, i think. also BASIC. 19:53:29 or well, typewriter with a modem. 19:54:11 -!- itsy has joined. 19:54:26 and then i recall seeing an apple (2?) while on holiday visiting some friends of a friend of my mother. i think i made it display a norwegian flag. with BASIC. 19:54:38 *+computer 19:56:02 a couple years later my dad bought an oric-1 computer, which i still should have in the storage in the basement of this building. also BASIC, which i played with for many years. 19:56:50 terrible interference with the television you connected it to, btw 19:57:44 you burned a norwegian flag onto some CRTs? 19:58:26 and cassette storage, which i basically never bothered with - i kept typing programs in fresh everytime. including a disassembler. i recall there was an assembly instruction reference in the manual, which was missing pages. 19:59:26 boily: um... 19:59:46 (6502 assembly, fwiw) 20:00:13 oerjan: I was given a tutorial on writing asm for BBC microcomputers 20:00:19 like, a big manual thing 20:00:19 but not a reference manual 20:00:19 it was basically just full of examples 20:00:20 and finshed with a 16-bit divide 20:00:24 yeah, BBC micro was 6502 too 20:01:46 (there were two cassettes with programs included, of which my cousin managed to destroy one with a magnet. the other was an adventure game named Zodiac, the cassette had a slow loading side and a fast loading side, the latter never worked. 20:01:50 ) 20:02:17 *a text adventure 20:03:32 I remember copying a blackjack game from a manual. I never had to see the colour version of it, since the only TV at my disposition at the time that worked with the TRS was an old black&white ~12" cube. 20:03:41 i assume it might have worked with a better cassette player. 20:06:27 i wrote mandelbrot in it, i recall. 20:08:02 after a while he bought an ibm pc. if it had basic i never found it. got turbo pascal and masm, though. 20:08:05 btw, the mandelbrot set looks great with floating point rounding errors 20:08:16 because the rounding errors look like little distorted mandelbrot sets of their own 20:08:34 *compatible, possibly 20:08:41 ais523: huh 20:09:24 ais523: well the real set also has little distorted mandelbrot sets in it. i even recall some seminary in complex analysis at the university explaining why. 20:09:45 yeah but they're not entirely disconnected from it 20:09:49 like the rounding errors are 20:09:53 right 20:10:19 ~duck little distorted madelbrot 20:10:19 --- No relevant information 20:10:26 ~duck little distorted mandelbrot 20:10:26 --- No relevant information 20:11:15 boily: i am not sure that is the technical term 20:12:35 ~duck technically correct little distorted mandelbrots 20:12:35 --- No relevant information 20:13:00 oerjan: wikipédia mentions a "distorted" in the article, but no explanation why. 20:13:11 ~duck the best kind of correct little distorted mandelbrots 20:13:12 --- No relevant information 20:14:41 wait, _google_ also has turned into https... 20:15:31 did google change or did IE itself change... 20:16:58 google has defaulted to https for a while now, I think 20:17:13 perhaps everyone got so fed up with the NSA stuff they decided to turn all the websites as redirecting http to https 20:17:32 http://googleblog.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/making-search-more-secure.html 20:17:35 elliott: i haven't noticed before. 20:18:04 the NSA stuff claims to be able to break SSL under at least some circumstances, I think? 20:18:07 elliott: that's if you're signed in. i don't have an account. 20:18:31 break implementations of SSL, anyways 20:18:57 elliott: i just found it a bit weird that google and wikipedia changed at nearly the same time, afaict 20:19:11 (and only noticed because zzo38 commented on the latter) 20:19:25 Wikipedia did it specifically because of the NSA, iirc 20:19:31 the platonic ideal of ssl, that's still safe!! 20:19:33 heh 20:19:45 finally, shachaf is placated. 20:20:41 Bike: eh? 20:20:51 what's the "eh" at 20:21:13 -!- iconmaster has joined. 20:21:49 Bike: why is shachaf placated? 20:21:51 Bike: he's just being canadian 20:21:52 `relcome iconmaster 20:21:55 ​iconmaster: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 20:22:09 boily: because whenever an http wikipedia link is posted he asks for https 20:22:11 oerjan: also this. I have a canadian quota to fulfill. 20:22:16 Bike: oooooh. 20:23:49 hmm… the stereotypes of Canadians are quite similar to the stereotypes of Brits 20:24:26 oh, shit, i just noticed "eh" as canadian. 20:25:26 hmm… this reminds me of something bizarre I saw at a train station recently 20:25:30 ais523: Canadians are a mix of Brits, Irishmen and Scotsmen, with Ukrainians and probably just about any other nationality. 20:25:44 that I'd have photographed and submitted to TDWTF if I thought of it at the time and owned a camera/cameraphone 20:25:52 boily: so are Brits ;) 20:26:17 (and then we have ass-backwards members of the Provincial Government that put forth a stupid «Charte des Valeurs Québécoises».) 20:26:49 basically, it was showing expected arrival times for trains 20:27:08 including both 13:50 and 02:40 20:27:23 some of those trains were like 12 hours 15 minutes late, predicted 20:27:36 I can only assume there was some stupid mishap converting between 12h and 24h clocks 20:27:39 ais523: oh! mentioning Brits and locations and stuff, and then checking the File to see where you are from, it seems you still aren't in there. 20:27:50 ais523: so... what are your approximate coördinates and body weigh? 20:27:58 I don't know my body weight 20:28:06 ais523, did you just mix 24 hour and 12 hour notations 20:28:06 you can figure out the coordinates from my email address 20:28:12 Taneb: no, the train station did 20:28:14 I think 20:28:26 Oh that's much less aaaah 20:28:37 I could interpret the 02:40 as 12 hour, but not with the times > 12:59 showing on the same board 20:28:45 ais523: [ais523] (~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523): (this is obviously not my real name) 20:28:57 hmm, theory: the times were 12:50 and 01:40 in the 12 hour clock, UTC 20:29:04 then it added 1 hour for daylight savings 20:29:10 boily: psst he's in birmingham, unless he's moved 20:29:29 which is stupid, but not as stupid as most of the other possible explanations 20:29:52 it's come up often enough i don't consider it secret. 20:29:56 -!- S1 has joined. 20:30:53 oerjan: I'll put that as a temporary answer. I'm using advanced devious social techniques to extract his email from the Intarwebs. 20:31:04 shocking 20:31:31 techniques aka sending him an email through the Wiki. 20:31:41 devious 20:31:57 you know that only works if he responds, right? 20:32:25 I know. I'm waiting for a kind response. it should come soon, no? 20:32:36 boily: alternate method, start playing agora 20:32:36 boily just has to craft an email ais can't resist responding to 20:32:41 boily: re your email: hi! 20:32:44 *-iv- 20:32:48 wow ais is good at this 20:32:56 you'll have to be more cleverer 20:33:07 darn. foiled again! 20:33:46 `quote birmingham 20:33:48 No output. 20:33:50 "Dear AIS, I am a general from the deposed Quebec Republic. I need to transfer a few million quedollars out of the country and would like to transfer to you if possible to avoid suspicion. You will of course be paid greatly for this service..." 20:34:05 `run grep -i birmingham wisdom/* 20:34:09 No output. 20:34:33 * boily falls to the ground, laughing 20:34:35 our files are mysteriously missing all birmingham information. this can be no coincidence. 20:34:46 yeah, that surprised me too 20:34:59 -!- audioPhil has joined. 20:35:04 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 20:35:05 -!- audioPhil has joined. 20:35:45 * boily puts on some Agora (http://youtu.be/1l6LE2yCdQ0), wears a +3 nightgown of ais523-seduction, and whispers “Give me your coördinates...” 20:36:28 boily: i think you are misunderstanding. i mean that if you played agora, you'd get to see some actual emails from him. 20:36:41 or if you just read the archives 20:36:56 well some forms of the archives hide the email address 20:38:23 entirely, or just obfuscate it? 20:38:30 i don't remember 20:38:31 they're more likely to hide the ais523 bit than the domain 20:38:50 `pastelogs .ac.uk 20:38:55 shachaf: in this thread I complain about #haskell in #rust and others respond by saying #rust can't have these problems because everyone is so nice! 20:38:59 a little grepping and whoising, I have Edgbaston. 20:39:45 i wonder if you could hire a sociologist to determine a good way to make people in a dedicated group like #rust not be shits 20:39:46 http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.29526 20:39:52 important research project possibilities imo 20:40:12 well, that didn't work. 20:40:35 well, except for all the "ais.*bham" in there i guess. 20:40:44 well, well, well, well 20:40:59 Edgbaston is where the University of Birgmingham is. 20:41:03 well people aren't being shits now 20:41:13 in fact I don't think the problems of #haskell have manifested yet 20:41:21 right 20:41:23 ok that whois mention gave me an idea, which unfortunately doesn't work. ais523, the address you gave on the nethack4.org whois gives me grave doubts of your lawful goodness. 20:41:26 but I brought them up as part of a conversation there, and now I kind of feel like I need to explain my view 20:41:36 but i mean "we're nice" is a classically bad solution to those inevitabilities 20:41:37 that you can't solve all community problems by being nice 20:41:38 yeah 20:41:43 but I also have an axe to grind about #haskell so whatever 20:42:21 i suppose it does say it's obfuscated. 20:42:25 but #haskell can't be all bad. I mean, the /topic was defined by shachaf! 20:43:10 it's tough because I think niceness is really lacking in tech communities and should be encouraged (see: linus torvalds is a dick) 20:43:14 but it's not a panacea 20:43:51 kmc: it reminds me of a friend I had who used to hang around the gitp forums, she was explaining how like, the rules basically mandated niceness, so what trolls/jerks would do is try to get other people caught by the rules 20:43:56 while sticking to the letter 20:43:58 heh 20:44:00 wow 20:44:00 helliora. 20:44:02 (gitp?) 20:44:10 Hi! Are the codu.org logs broken? 20:44:13 Fiora: (guess exactly what happened on tvtropes) 20:44:31 (giant in the playground, apparently) 20:44:34 I don't think #rust could avoid the "information only available on IRC" problem, anyway, because Rust is still changing so fast that there is literally no time to write everything down 20:44:36 Fiora: actually there was an epic troll on the gitp forums today 20:44:36 itsy: try the [text] link instead, i don't know what's up 20:44:47 ~duck gitp 20:44:47 The Order of the Stick From Left to Right: Belkar, Vaarsuvius, Elan, Haley, Durkon, and Roy. 20:45:10 basically exploiting the tl;dr phenomenon to make a lot of people look stupid 20:45:36 i actually raised a huge stink there once back when i cared 'cos a guy got banned for insulting someone who'd said something racist in a nice way for the thousandath time 20:45:51 http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=302960 if anyone's interested 20:46:05 read the first sentence, then scroll down to see all the people who didn't 20:46:09 to this day, classicists skeeve me right the fuck out. 20:48:10 which one is tarqin again? elan's dad? 20:48:26 Bike: yes 20:48:47 the joke is that he has a bunch of fans in the forum despite being obviously evil 20:49:08 weird 20:49:29 gitp is in a universe where "lawful good" is part of physics, you'd think that would discourage that sort of thing 20:50:03 basically it's some sort of GitP versus TV Tropes war 20:50:15 wow, please don't tell me any more about this. 20:50:37 ok 20:50:44 even though I find it hilarious, I'll stop 20:51:02 k 20:51:10 so anyway how about those esolangs 20:51:22 Bike: well I did Snowflake 20:51:36 oh right i was reading that article before 20:52:51 it's... kind of hard to understand 20:52:53 GTA V comes out tomorrow 20:53:57 kmc: Montréal's been plastered with stupid ads recently for that game. mainly boobs. 20:54:17 heh 20:54:21 saints row is already parodying it, i guess 20:54:28 i think that's been the case for years yeah 20:54:37 i mean gta specifically 20:54:42 I like boobs, but I might be ambivalent to negative about their use in advertising 20:54:51 it's an ais523 wall of text. i drifted off when it started explaining how the program modifies itself. 20:55:03 yeah that was kind of my reaction too >_< 20:55:09 hm, which reminds me 20:55:22 I'm going to have to write an interp and a program, I guess 20:55:22 ais523: is there any chance i could understand checkout if i made a little cpu on moy fpga 20:55:23 if you think that's bad try http://esolangs.org/wiki/Checkout :P 20:55:27 wow snap. 20:55:29 high five elliott 20:55:36 s/moy/my/ 20:55:39 elliott: hey, no fair, I can't keep Checkout straight either 20:55:54 so i'm going to take that as a no 20:56:00 whereas I have a pretty good intuitive understanding of Snowflake 20:56:32 I think it might be clearer as two separate languages 20:56:40 one that's just the original language 20:56:46 and one that does the self-modification 20:57:01 but basically, it's as complex as it is because I wanted the language to actually work 21:03:13 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: Page closed). 21:04:07 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0550321311002938#aff019 academia is great 21:06:11 Bike: uhm. the page, it is borken. 21:07:06 looks fine to me 21:07:13 maybe your browser isn't prepared for this level of authorship 21:07:45 jesus 21:07:50 is that averyone who worked on the LHC? 21:08:24 I wonder if there's a paper about the classification of finite simple groups with a similarly long authors list 21:08:53 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATLAS_experiment sorta 21:09:23 wikipedia says the finite simple groups paper only has a hundred authors. boring! 21:09:47 it's not one paper. 21:12:10 Bike: http://i.imgur.com/hYxPyaR.png 21:12:32 does sciencedirect normall do that for you 21:12:57 no. 21:13:09 yes. 21:13:34 the home page is fine. as soon as I search for something, it borkenifies itself. 21:15:13 maybe try that for screenreaders link? 21:15:39 it spins... 21:15:51 ok ur fuked ok 21:16:35 `ghc 21:16:44 ... 21:16:44 ghc: no input files \ Usage: For basic information, try the `--help' option. 21:16:46 Oh 21:17:23 oerjan: O KAY. 21:17:24 `run ghc -e 'putStr "Hi!"' 21:17:32 Hi! 21:18:17 `run ghc -e 'print [1..]' 21:18:21 ​[1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29,30,31,32,33,34,35,36,37,38,39,40,41,42,43,44,45,46,47,48,49,50,51,52,53,54,55,56,57,58,59,60,61,62,63,64,65,66,67,68,69,70,71,72,73,74,75,76,77,78,79,80,81,82,83,84,85,86,87,88,89,90,91,92,93,94,95,96,97,98,99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110,111,112,113,11 21:19:19 kmc: good thread 21:19:23 kmc: should i read it 21:19:29 probably not 21:19:37 `run ghc -e 'let s = show s in s' 21:19:43 ​"\"\\\"\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ 21:20:52 shachello. 21:21:19 helloily 21:21:35 i can't make up my mind about being in this channel now 21:23:21 i'd like to point out that I, Bike, am here 21:24:53 yes but you're also in #lisp 21:25:04 oh snap...................... 21:31:18 and you used to be #haskell "not anymore????" 21:31:34 i was there for like five minutes 21:31:38 my sister is a big fan of the gitp forums it turns out 21:31:51 it's my fault 21:32:30 whenever Bike is not in the room, all of the other characters should be asking "Where's Bike?" 21:32:35 Bike: seems like #lisp is a nice place. «ARGH ELISP». 21:32:44 `slist 21:32:46 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 21:34:01 (lisp 'lisbon) ; ==> t 21:34:11 boily: there is a pretty sad amount of smug vapid complaints about other languages, but i've seen that in every other language channel i've been in too so *shrug* 21:34:45 the really advanced language channels have smug vapid complaints about their own language too 21:35:02 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:35:17 i should just join ###biology and part all other channels 21:35:57 > concat $ fix (map (('(':).(++')').concat) . inits) 21:35:58 Couldn't match expected type `[GHC.Types.Char]' 21:35:58 with actual ty... 21:36:33 ##bike still exists 21:36:46 > concat $ fix (map (('(':).(++")").concat).inits) 21:36:46 "()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()((... 21:36:58 oh 21:37:02 and it even allows people to join it, strangely enough 21:38:46 > iterate ('(':).(++")")) "" 21:38:47 :1:23: parse error on input `)' 21:39:06 well, whatever, then. 21:39:24 that's not the same thing though 21:39:27 Bike: your lisp joke is so highbrow 21:39:32 my what 21:39:45 or maybe it's oerjan's 21:39:45 oh is that what oerjan was doing 21:39:49 i just wanted to see if i could fix it, lol 21:40:00 > concat $ fix (map (('0':).(++"1").concat).inits) 21:40:01 "01001100100111001001100100111100100110010011100100110010011111001001100100... 21:40:12 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 21:40:13 which sequence is that 21:40:24 heck if i know 21:40:35 the boily sequence 21:40:38 https://twitter.com/Haynes1980/status/291958991704178688 21:42:01 http://bbs.emath.ac.cn/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=386 ← longer sequence subset, which has exactly 1 hit on google. 21:42:48 I don't know what “你厉害 0100110010011100100110010011110010011001001,,,” means, but it seems the Chinese people are onto something... 21:42:53 boily: googlewhack :) 21:44:02 chinese children, even 21:46:05 anyone who speaks one of the Chinese languages in this fine chännel? 21:46:06 btw if you're wondering it's essentially a list of von neumann numerals 21:46:14 ~duck von neumann numeral 21:46:14 --- No relevant information 21:46:30 metasepia: you really should know that 21:46:41 or maybe it's ordinal 21:46:48 ~duck von neumann ordinal 21:46:48 --- No relevant information 21:46:52 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:47:06 Bike died both from here and #lisp. 21:47:26 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_number#Von_Neumann_definition_of_ordinals 21:47:28 -!- Bike has joined. 21:48:36 oerjan: can't parse that. the mathematese is too heavy. 21:49:32 boily: 0 = {}, 1 = {0}, 2 = {0,1}, 3 = {0,1,2} , ... 21:50:20 oerjan: oh. 21:50:29 then remove the commas and turn braces into parens 21:50:53 then it becomes underload programs! 21:51:20 ^ul (())(:~:S:a*~:^):^ 21:51:20 :~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S:a*~:^:~:S ...too much output! 21:51:22 oops 21:51:33 ^ul (())(~:S:a*~:^):^ 21:51:33 ()()(())()(())(()(()))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:51:41 hm not quite 21:53:09 the people on #lisp seem to have a cheeky markovian bot too. fungot, how do you feel about that? 21:53:09 boily: ah. not really 21:53:44 ^ul ()(~:a*:S~:^):^ 21:53:44 ()()(())()(())(()(()))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:53:48 darn 21:54:17 ^ul ()(~:a*:aS~:^):^ 21:54:18 (())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(( ...too much output! 21:54:29 Bike: I see what yeta did there. 21:54:35 hm missing one 21:54:54 ^ul ()(~:aSa*~:^):^ 21:54:54 () ...out of stack! 21:54:57 eek 21:54:59 ! 21:55:03 wow. 21:55:36 it's nice to know your bosomed 21:55:39 whatever that means 21:55:47 you're* 21:55:50 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:55:51 well... I'm feminine. 21:55:56 ^ul ()(~:aS:a*~:^):^ 21:55:56 ()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(())))(()(())(()(()))(()(())(()(()))))(()(()) ...too much output! 21:56:02 there 21:56:40 oerjan managed to von neumann the von neumann while he von neumanned in a von neumann. 21:57:21 damn straight! 21:57:49 which proves that von neumann was a smurf. 22:11:15 -!- Yonkie has joined. 22:12:30 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:13:02 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 22:15:15 -!- SingingBoyo has joined. 22:15:56 `relcome Yonkie 22:16:03 ​Yonkie: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 22:18:02 `slist 22:18:04 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 22:18:09 another? 22:18:47 oh. I missed the earlier one :/ 22:18:49 my fault 22:18:58 this incident will be reported 22:21:27 bleh, sudo quotes :( 22:21:35 it has so many ridiculous quotes, and yet people pick that one 22:23:06 I was surprised to find that it actually does report those incidents (if you e.g. configure outgoing mail), I got the report once 22:23:51 yeah, I've got them too 22:24:03 or at least, I found them just sitting in root's mailbox 22:24:16 I don't get /why/ it reports them 22:24:26 Well, you have to enable insults in order for sudo to give you the interesting messages. 22:24:31 given how you could write a wrapper around sudo that makes your experiments go unreported 22:25:07 hmm, wouldn't that be a bug in sudo? 22:25:10 maybe anybody savvy enough to do that isn't going to fuck up sudo in the first place 22:25:35 olsner: well people have found actual security bugs in sudo 22:25:49 some way to get %n into a printf string was the most recent, I think 22:26:16 how would yo uwrite that wrapper? 22:26:23 -!- SingingBoyo has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:26:49 sudo has insults? 22:27:33 sudoers(5): "insults -- If set, sudo will insult users when they enter an incorrect password. This flag is off by default." 22:28:42 ais523: I'd think the underlying authentication library would log and report the failure regardless. 22:28:53 kmc: sudo -l "$@" && sudo "$@" 22:29:01 I think 22:29:31 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 22:31:04 wow, this is mindbogglingly hard to test 22:31:16 due to all my non-sudoers accounts not having passwords 22:32:49 you cannot test security because it's too good 22:35:09 I managed to lock up my copy of Mathematica several times on balloon-related differential equations, and subsequently got my IP address banned from Wolfram|Alpha for making too many requests. 22:35:10 -!- augur has joined. 22:35:37 the horror. 22:35:48 I'm going to take this as evidence that Mathematica sucks ;) 22:36:52 it's not /just/ my weird similar-but-not-identical-to-turing-machine automata that make its performance start really sucking 22:37:18 http://i.imgur.com/wkygDoR.png 22:37:23 to be fair it does seem pretty good for multimedia type things 22:37:52 kmc: #drugz? 22:37:56 yeah 22:38:02 this must be those personalized google results I keep hearing about 22:38:10 i get the same actually :D 22:38:15 on image search, anyway 22:38:17 so do i 22:38:18 Mathematica is good at things that were considered when writing it 22:38:22 maybe you've just corrupted us all 22:38:27 it's probably one of the first non-general-purpose programming languages 22:38:39 er 22:38:43 basically it's just a really optimized, large, library 22:38:48 containing lots of routines 22:38:49 ais523: i've been complaining about matlab elsewhere. am i allowed to feel solidarity with you 22:39:04 Bike: oh, matlab sucks in entirely different and unrelate ways 22:39:07 *unrelated 22:39:11 way to cheer me up! 22:39:20 i almost did a course in matlab 22:39:31 I had to do a project with it, because that's what the lecturer requested 22:39:49 and it was really hard to write the report in a way that covered up the arithmetic errors 22:39:56 sounds awful 22:39:57 (which I think were the result of stack smashing or something like that) 22:40:02 so far i've learned that the "ones" function, that is described as just returning an array of ones, has over nine different calling conventions, several of which involves literal strings 22:40:06 (because it often crashed rather than getting the values wrong) 22:40:16 -s 22:40:52 i've heard bad things about matlab, like these things you're saying just now. 22:41:02 GHARGH! WHY MUST YOU BE FAILING ME NOW! all I want is /r/nosleep's top submissions for the past month! 22:41:03 ur welcome. 22:41:30 (also a hit from the same course: "spnet.cpp - C program to [...]") 22:41:30 mnoqy: I've got it to dump Java stack traces to the console 22:41:32 i did about one exercise in it; that was enough to convince me that i never wanted to use it again 22:41:41 source*, interesting typo 22:44:59 :t listArray 22:45:00 Ix i => (i, i) -> [e] -> Array i e 22:45:32 > listArray ((-1,-1),(1,1)) $ repeat 1 22:45:33 array ((-1,-1),(1,1)) [((-1,-1),1),((-1,0),1),((-1,1),1),((0,-1),1),((0,0),... 22:45:50 ? 22:46:04 oh. 22:46:09 Bike: array of ones 22:46:27 well can you write a function that can return either an array of int8 1s or double 1s!! 22:49:06 > let ones = listArray ((-1,-1),(1,1)) $ repeat 1; ones :: Num n => Array (Int,Int) n in (ones :: Array (Int,Int) Int8, ones :: Array (Int,Int) Double) 22:49:07 (array ((-1,-1),(1,1)) [((-1,-1),1),((-1,0),1),((-1,1),1),((0,-1),1),((0,0)... 22:49:11 Bike: MAYBE 22:49:46 uh i meant like «ones ((-1,-1),(1,1)) "Int8"» obviously 22:49:48 you're failing me dude 22:50:10 sorry, no dependent typing 22:50:22 so matlab is dependently typed 22:50:24 haskell is inferior. 22:50:28 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:51:45 time to disappear in the Great Coldish Outside, while Bike sputters heresies. 22:52:00 don't forget to bring your ix 22:52:10 will do. 22:52:15 -!- boily has quit (Quit: poutine!). 22:52:18 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:59 -!- itsy has quit (Quit: itsy). 22:56:38 say I make a language that's essentially Thue but when you make a rule "original::=replacement", "original" is a regular expression, and "replacement" may contain "\0", "\1", etc., where \n means the substring that was matched by the nth group in the regular expression 22:56:53 is that too much redundant with an existing language or is it ok to make a page for it? 22:57:02 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:05:31 Koen__: it's not massively interesting 23:05:37 it's like a wimpmode Thue 23:05:48 or possibly a hardmode Thutu 23:10:30 also, i vaguely recall it's been made already? 23:11:47 well, thutu of course 23:12:12 -!- Bike has joined. 23:13:31 oh REBEL 23:13:39 didn't Koen__ mention that earlier 23:14:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 23:15:03 oh 23:15:37 for some reason i've never read the rebel page 23:16:23 everytime I decide to read all pages in the category string-rewriting, I quickly end up with a huge tree of pages to read (half of which from wikipedia) 23:16:42 there are too many webpages in the internet 23:17:44 yep. 23:20:27 yup that's exactly the language I had been looking for 23:20:35 feeling less lonely now 23:20:51 thanks! 23:22:14 yw 23:33:50 A great idea emerged #elsewhere. Make an easier variant for kids of a certain well-known esoteric programming language, name it with s/brain/child/. 23:35:48 that's a bad idea. 23:39:40 great idea 23:42:53 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:48:52 -!- Sgeo has joined.