00:00:18 sorry, I meant the company ^^; 00:00:21 the one that makes the keyfobs and stuff 00:00:23 Oh, a company. Founded by the people in RSA. 00:01:09 "the deliberately crippled pseudo random number generator (PRNG), which is so weak that it undermines the security of most or all cryptography systems that use it" wow, things have escalated. 00:01:26 you saw that NIST also disowned it, right? 00:01:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 00:01:43 yeah 00:01:46 "McAfee representatives issued a statement that confirmed the McAfee Firewall Enterprise Control Center 5.3.1 supported the Dual_EC_DRBG, but only when deployed in federal government or government contractor customer environments, where this FIPS certification has recommended it" bahahaha 00:01:53 xD 00:01:58 good job nsa, you got YOUR OWN FUCKING GOVERNMENT to use your FUCKING BROKEN hack 00:02:01 thanks douchebags 00:02:08 maybe the NSA wanted to spy on other parts of the government? 00:02:11 http://blog.cryptographyengineering.com/2013/09/the-many-flaws-of-dualecdrbg.html is a really great detailed writeup 00:02:13 I mean, like, that's a thing spy agencies do, right 00:02:21 they spy on each other 00:02:25 like this big incestuous family thing 00:02:29 yes but they're 00:02:30 yeah intelligence agencies tend to become autonomous terrorist cells rather than anything that's accountable to either government or citizens 00:02:33 supposed to spy on other ones! 00:02:37 but... yeah what kmc said. 00:03:02 but i mean even disregarding that, crippling government security is kind of the opposite of even the nsa's supposed mission to do literally the exact opposite of that. 00:03:09 the stratfor handbook has an entry on the nsa 00:03:19 oh yeah? what's it say 00:03:36 "they're completely out of control, and so compartmentalised that nobody actually knows what anyone else is doing" 00:03:44 welp 00:04:04 at least they are just breaking crypto and not kidnapping people to give them LSD just to see what happens 00:04:17 "The length of time that Dual_EC_DRBG takes can be seen as a virtue: it also slows down an attacker trying to guess the seed" lol 00:04:44 Bike: it only compromises the government's security if you're the NSA though? at least in theory 00:05:03 so for the NSA it's just plain a good thing if they get anyone at all to use it ever 00:05:03 yes, a very stupid theory that goes against every cryptographic practice. 00:05:10 which, i mean, is what they were thinking, i'm sure. 00:05:23 er. what i'm saying is they're incompetent. 00:05:42 I think they're actually turning out to be kind of disturbingly competent 00:06:09 eh, doesn't really matter if your compromised rng is obviously shitty if you can pressure people who don't understand that into using it 00:06:21 It's like the CIA. They're disturbingly competent at some things (e.g. kidnapping) and worse at others (e.g. not making half the world hate the united states) 00:06:51 Anyway. Anyone here used davfs2? 00:06:53 Phantom_Hoover: well, the thing is that even the NSA probably doesn't want the rest of the world to be able to break the US government's encryption. just them. 00:07:19 that is a point 00:08:02 Indeed, half the mission of the NSA is making it so that US communications can't be cracked. 00:08:04 I mean intelligence agencies seem to have this thing where they're pretty great at the microscale of their job but then use it to just fuck everything over constantly. 00:08:35 Like, the CIA ran the opium trade in the Pacific for a while. I'm sure they did it very well! But the problem with that is that they ran an opium trade 00:08:50 Turns out that a lack of oversight is bad. 00:08:56 Sorry, this just really, really irritates me. 00:09:13 I think the CIA just likes having fun. 00:09:31 elliott: And money. 00:09:36 like, hey we should go install a new government in some random country today! hey we should try out this whole drug trade thing! life's an adventure! 00:09:39 Opium trading is a great source of income. 00:09:47 worked for the british 00:11:06 just cause 2 is actually a documentary 00:11:12 laughing @ idea of cheery cia agent saying "life's an adventure!" to a bunch of filipino muslims he's torturing 00:21:52 that's the vibe I'm going for, yeah 00:24:33 i've heard a story that the cia faked a vampire attack in mindanao once, so, that works 00:26:31 black comedy set in the CIA in the 60s 00:26:32 do it 00:26:53 that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove 00:27:06 maybe 00:30:10 I think I've gone like seven years wanting to see Dr. Strangelove without actually doing it. I'm great. I'm the best 00:33:07 do it 00:33:38 do it 00:34:13 thanks, I never thought of that before 00:35:08 davfs2 is great 00:35:21 ls tells me what are the files are but then because of the fucked configuration i can't access them 00:35:39 and so cp, which just uses usual cp instead of dav's copy, can't do shit even though i can over dav 00:36:54 (it will probably actually be great once the IT nerds unfuck themselves) 00:40:44 nerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrds 00:47:03 In Dungeons&Dragons game, I sometimes teleport without knowing where I am going, and ending up frightening the people who are in there, if any. (In ifMUD, I have set a olounge teleport message to "suddenly appears in the middle of the room in an instant, frightening (or almost frightening) a few people..." partially for that reason.) 00:47:35 Do you like this kind of messages? 00:49:57 http://cdn-static.zdnet.com/i/r/story/70/00/020312/nsa-620x317-620x317.jpg?hash=MGx2L2ZlZT&upscale=1 00:50:01 so much car park... 00:51:20 that sounds like it would come out a lot like Dr. Strangelove 00:51:43 idk, sounds more like 4 lions or the coen brothers 00:53:22 If you play the Dungeons&Dragons game, say, do you do things like this too? 01:04:00 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:09:43 -!- Ghoul_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 01:11:56 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 01:12:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:12:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Client Quit). 01:30:26 -!- augur has joined. 01:31:50 -!- augur_ has joined. 01:31:51 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:34:15 -!- Ghoul_ has joined. 02:59:16 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 03:01:55 -!- mnoqy has joined. 04:10:44 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 05:02:45 -!- audioPhil_ has joined. 05:03:23 -!- audioPhil has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:44:28 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 06:03:57 `slist 06:04:00 slist: Taneb atriq Ngevd Fiora nortti Sgeo ThatOtherPerson alot 06:25:10 "I have had an opportunity to read your article [REDACTED] on [REDACTED]. Through your works, I know you are an expert in this field." Yeah, I'm sure you've read it and are not just automatically spamming all authors for articles for your journal named almost exactly like a well-known existing journal. 06:25:25 -!- FreeFull has quit. 06:27:31 Don't you want to write for Naturer? 06:28:00 Please look at CGA Collection this time 06:33:27 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 07:36:15 -!- ais523 has joined. 08:06:20 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 08:07:17 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 08:45:20 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 08:57:05 -!- mnoqy has quit (Quit: hello). 08:58:02 -!- Taneb has joined. 08:59:29 -!- ais523 has quit. 09:00:56 Wish me out-of-context luck! 09:01:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Client Quit). 09:04:13 Good oocluck, then. 09:15:06 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 09:32:55 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:25:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:51:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:03:06 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:09:18 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 11:21:15 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:30:22 http://sprunge.us/gDce nice memory use numbers in 'top' here. 11:35:27 -!- ais523 has joined. 11:36:12 -!- audioPhil_ has changed nick to audioPhil. 11:36:20 -!- audioPhil has quit (Changing host). 11:36:20 -!- audioPhil has joined. 11:50:00 kmc, should I learn Rust? 11:50:57 Taneb: I'm not kmc, but I think you should learn Rust 11:54:31 ais523, should I learn Rust over learning, say C++? 11:55:12 Taneb: C++ is as of 2013 more practically useful; I'm hoping Rust overtakes it, although sadly it probably won't 11:55:17 Rust is a much better language, though, IMO 11:55:24 unless you like sheer eso craziness 11:55:29 then C++ is pretty good 11:55:59 fun fact: I added a couple of small C++ files to a mostly-C project recently, because I needed to create a file that could produce side effects upon being linked into a project 11:56:06 without causing it to fail to compile if it wasn't 11:56:17 that can't be done in portable C, but it can be done in portable C++ 11:56:25 and in fact a bunch of systems have complex linker support just to get that to work 11:57:46 ais523, that seems... 11:57:49 a weird thing to do 11:58:20 Taneb: well you know how the Linux kernel has modules that can be compiled in and can also be dynamically loaded, depending on configuration? 11:58:24 No 11:58:36 I was going for something like that, except that the core file would know which files were compiled in without anyone having to tell it 11:58:53 thus it would know whether it needed to try to dynamically load them or not if someone requested them 11:58:54 I don't know that much about the linux kernel 11:59:24 hmm 11:59:35 (should probably learn at some point) 11:59:38 you don't need to know anything about internals to know that, just to have configured it at least once 11:59:46 but I guess people don't configure the kernel very often 12:01:43 I'm going to get some lunch now 12:12:05 ais523: What's the point of configuring the kernel? When do you need to do it? 12:12:23 Roujo: when you're compiling it in anything other than a stock configuration 12:12:38 Why would you want to do that? 12:12:39 in my case, it was for an embedded system 12:12:44 Ah, okay 12:12:54 needed to turn off as many features as we could get away with to save disk space 12:13:20 also the sysadmins here had to reconfigure the kernel of a VM for me so that a program I wrote that required specific kernel support would run 12:13:34 (one of the flags to prctl) 12:13:38 Yeah, I guess I just never used anything specific enough to have to do that =) 12:14:50 well it was on by default in the kernel my laptop uses 12:14:59 but apparently not in the configuration used by the desktops and servers here 12:15:09 you should always configure your kernel unusually to keep the NSA off balance. also, have this nice tin(*) hat. (*) _genuine_ tin, not that aluminium thing that _strengthens_ the mind control rays instead. 12:16:16 I just use lead instead 12:16:24 oerjan: there was that huge row from people who didn't understand the way the Linux kernel implemented randomness 12:16:37 telling it to stop XORing rdrand() results with its true-random numbers to make them randomer 12:16:45 Roujo: that only helps against the cancer-producing rays. 12:16:55 oerjan: You haven't met my mother 12:17:11 that may be true. 12:18:08 ais523: i think i saw a post where linus insulted them recently. 12:18:20 yes 12:18:35 well, it wasn't so much typical linus insults 12:18:43 much too mild. 12:18:47 as "go read the kernel source, then tell me if your request makes any sense" 12:20:37 http://sprunge.us/FjXH <- this software does not fill me with confidence. 12:21:24 all those warnings are the same thing, though 12:21:41 assuming 64 bit, it'll work fine if they're storing integers in pointers 12:21:43 Sounds nice. Pointers as ints are always nice. 12:21:48 but not if they're storing pointers in integers 12:21:53 and both situations would cause that warning 12:22:13 Wait, casting an int as a pointer causes the "pointer-to-int" warning? 12:22:29 That doesn't sound intuitive 12:22:45 mind you, if you've just read about how applying the NSA PRNG to "improve" true random output ruins it, you'd be naturally suspicious of other ways of "improving" random numbers, too. 12:22:46 You need to convert both ways in both scenarios, generally. 12:23:06 For the most part those warnings are of the if (debug) printf ("...@%x...", (int)thisisapointer); variety, which is clearly wrong but does not really matter. 12:24:08 Also there is one case of if (unsignedcharvalue = (unsigned char)NULL) (except obscured by typedefs) which is also completely wrong if NULL is defined as "(void *)0", but does not matter either. 12:24:54 Yes, all the others than that one seem to be debug printouts. 12:25:01 (Whoever wrote this clearly has not heard of %p.) 12:25:35 I remember a style guide somewhere saying not to use %p ever 12:25:37 but I can't remember why 12:26:07 fizzie: wait, (unsigned char)NULL, not (unsigned char *)NULL ? 12:26:20 oerjan: Yes, well, the other side is an unsigned char (not a pointer to it) too. 12:26:33 It's looking for the terminating '\0' of a string, as far as I can tell. 12:26:45 now I'm wondering, is it ever possible for (unsigned char)NULL to not be 0? 12:26:48 Yes. 12:26:59 my guess is yes, but zero constants work weirdly when it comes to pointers 12:27:09 e.g. (void*)(float)0 is always NULL 12:27:21 err, (void*)(int)(float)0 12:27:40 argh 12:28:08 are you _sure_ of that. 12:28:15 ais523: I don't think that's true. 12:28:28 ais523: It is true that (void*)(int)0.0f is always NULL, however. 12:28:41 AAAAAAAAAAAAA 12:28:56 Related: http://ewontfix.com/11/ 12:29:03 fizzie: I can't remember the exact rules, but they're stupid 12:29:15 what about (void*)(NULL - NULL)? 12:29:48 ais523: "Integer constant expressions" are allowed to include "floating constants that are the immediate operands of casts", but any cast operators "shall only convert arithmetic types to integer types", which would outlaw the (float) cast. 12:30:09 (And of course a null pointer expression needs an integer constant expression with a value of 0.) 12:30:16 haha, ridiculous :) 12:30:45 I don't think (void *)(NULL - NULL) is always correct, if the definition of NULL includes the (legal) cast to (void *). 12:31:34 hm is pointer subtraction defined if the pointers are NULL 12:31:36 ais523, rust is still making 12:31:53 oerjan: I was wondering that myself 12:32:00 it's obviously undefined if exactly one is NULL 12:32:13 they're not pointing to the same array, because there is no array. 12:32:20 but both being NULL is the sort of situation you don't lean the rules for because it's stupid to do it 12:32:40 they're both pointing one past the end of (void[0])NULL :P 12:33:05 There is no [0]. 12:33:20 "Both shall point to elements of the same array object" is all it says. 12:33:27 I'm guessing it's not right. 12:33:53 *Anyway*, regarding the original topic, I don't think "(int)(void *)0" has any particular guarantees that would require it to be 0. 12:34:00 so if I have a pointer to something that isn't an array 12:34:04 I can't subtract that pointer from itself? 12:34:36 I think it's bootstrapping now 12:34:40 I am scared 12:34:52 How would you have a valid pointer to something that isn't an array? (There's a rule that says approximately that everything can be treated as one-element arrays.) 12:34:52 (this could easily be achieved via, say, taking the address of a stack element) 12:35:03 fizzie: hmm, right 12:37:22 "For the purposes of these operators, a pointer to an object that is not an element of an array behaves the same as a pointer to the first element of an array of length one with the type of the object as its element type." 12:37:30 "These operators" being + and -. 12:38:43 whereas NULL doesn't count because it doesn't necessarily point to anything? 12:38:54 It explicitly does not point to any object, I think. 12:40:18 well it's possible for it to point to something 12:40:30 Is it defined somewhere? I keep getting errors saying that NULL doesn't exist >_> 12:40:52 is there anything in the standard to prevent NULL being somewhere on the stack? (it can't be on the heap, unless it's in the middle of an object, because free ignores it) 12:40:57 Roujo: stdlib.h 12:41:03 Roujo: It's defined in many headers, but is the standard location. 12:41:13 , and others define it too. 12:41:31 I can't quite parse "While using rustc directly to generate your executables, and then running them manually is a perfectly valid way to test your code, for smaller projects, prototypes, or if you're a beginner, it might be more convenient to use the rust tool." 12:41:38 12:42:09 Is it saying that compiling then running is better if I'm a beginner, or is it saying that using the rust tool is better if I'm a beginner? 12:42:23 ais523: Anyhow, a null pointer is "guaranteed to compare unequal to a pointer to any object or function", which would be a contradiction if it actually pointed to an object, because it would then compare equal to any pointer to that object. 12:42:39 right 12:43:06 And you can have a "char *" at any individual byte of an object, so I think you can't even hide it in the middle of an object. 12:43:07 Taneb: it's saying that if you're starting out, rust is probably easier to use, but rustc is perfectly acceptable 12:43:17 Thanks 12:43:21 what if it points halfway through a byte? 12:43:31 ais523: fizzie: Thanks, that explains it =P 12:43:40 (I think this is actually legal in C, although not massively useful) 12:43:42 Any reason why it's not a keyword? =P 12:44:09 0 is a keyword :-P 12:44:35 Not technically, I don't think. (Keywords are identifiers.) 12:44:44 I know 12:44:45 C++11 has a 'nullptr' keyword for a null pointer, I think. 12:44:46 but close enough 12:44:54 fizzie: I was thinking about that 12:44:59 but I'm not sure if it's a keyword or just a templtae 12:45:01 *template 12:45:40 I don't think I want to get the C++11 specification to find out, but I think it's a keyword. 12:45:48 'true' and 'false' are keywords there too. 12:46:34 I hope they were defined as 0 and 1 respectively, just to annoy people 12:46:43 although they probably weren't 12:47:44 defines three macros: true, false, and file_no.. I mean, __bool_true_and_false_are_defined. 12:48:07 Oh, and "bool" as a macro that expands to "_Bool", forgot that. 12:48:42 btw, something that came up in discussion with the people here this morning: strictly typed LaTeX 12:48:54 basically the idea is that it typechecks your math in order to catch typos 12:51:08 -!- myndzi has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:53:51 -!- myndzi has joined. 12:55:29 fizzie: isn't __bool_true_and_false_are_defined sort of redundant with true :P 12:55:51 i guess it never hurts to be explicit. 12:56:49 ais523: good luck with typechecking _real_ math. 12:57:17 oerjan: it'd work on category theory 12:57:48 real math makes C++ overloading look sane, you know. 12:58:24 oerjan: I guess you can use it to check whether they're defined in the standard way, rather than in some custom way. 13:00:37 -!- boily has joined. 13:08:54 -!- Koen has joined. 13:11:32 Ohayoily 13:12:06 Roujohayō. 13:13:42 -!- metasepia has joined. 13:18:37 -!- ais523 has quit. 13:19:45 I can't get rust-mode working in emacs... 13:20:18 Have you tried adding a mist of water and letting it sit there for a couple of years? 13:20:35 Taneb: did you turn it off and on again? 13:22:14 Is the cable connected? 13:24:13 did you try pushing Ctrl-Apple-Escape-Meta-Alt-Start-Alt Gr-R ? 13:29:16 oerjan: you forgot Hyper. 13:29:22 oh. 13:31:43 otherwise, all that'll do will bring up the Tetris-Mayan-Calendar-Half-Debug-Mode, but only if he has the scratchpad open. 13:33:41 i did not know the mayans had a tetris calendar. 13:33:53 clever guys 13:36:31 * oerjan suddenly wonders if anyone has tried to adapt a piano keyboard for non-music use 13:37:10 Well 13:37:11 Well 13:37:15 I tried. Once. 13:37:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 13:37:31 ooh http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5928061/using-a-piano-keyboard-as-a-computer-keyboard 13:38:07 -!- Bike has joined. 13:38:15 Using a piano keyboard as a computer keyboard sounds like a profoundly bad idea. 13:38:25 Using something similar to a computer keyboard as a piano keyboard is less ridiculous. 13:38:29 I used a DDR pad to play Goldeneye 13:38:32 (But with velocity sensitivity) 13:38:32 So yeah 13:38:41 There really is no limit 13:38:54 I need to find a nice small electric piano. 13:39:24 I have a wind "piano" 13:39:39 More like an organ, probably 13:39:45 But without the pipes 13:39:58 Um... are you referring to a melodica? 13:40:19 Nope 13:40:30 It was electric 13:41:42 Creative sells a computer keyboard where the integrated wrist rest contains a small piano keyboard. 13:41:51 Normally there's a cover on top of it when typing. 13:42:27 http://ask.creative.com/wwimages/general/product_guides/prodikeys_dm.jpg <- this thing. 13:42:27 I've found mini-keyboards to be surprisingly useless for digital composing. 13:45:19 -!- updog has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:59:19 Gregor: why? 14:01:10 surprisingly, Gregor isn't a midget. 14:01:23 sometimes, when editing the quotes for too long, you realise your brain's been blocking dangerous replies in the background, preserving your sanity. 14:01:38 Bike: why. oh why did you link to shapeshifting cuttlefish erotica. 14:02:04 i was asked~ 14:02:17 What the hell? 14:02:24 answers that, then. 14:03:02 coppro: A mix of things... velocity sensitivity is not useful, so their primary "advantage" isn't one, and you need to go trawling between octaves all the time because their range is so small. Add on the fact that your hands will surely be near the computer keyboard to do other things, and I never found myself using it. 14:04:21 Perhaps you could have a physically scrollable mini-keyboard that you could drag left and right to access further octaves. 14:04:30 (With some sort of a folding mechanism.) 14:05:39 It was just a button press to get to other octaves. 14:05:56 Much less time investment than a retarded let's-suck-Apple's-cock drag maneuver. 14:08:41 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 14:18:04 `quote django 14:18:09 265) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) `quote django 352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 311) `quote django 352) django is named a 14:18:27 okay, so the olsner-giraffe is part of the quote. no line break, then. 14:19:29 Wait, so... I should probably quote you `quoting to keep the trend, is that it? 14:19:52 Roujo, only if olsner comments 14:20:00 Roujo: you'd be piling up on the olsner-cpressey-mnoqy combo. 14:20:37 Roujo: and think before you say something djanguesque. the consequences will never be the same. 14:21:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:21:21 8 days... 14:21:29 8 days until I'm in a far of land 14:21:33 Well 14:21:35 Not that far off 14:21:49 Like, less than 100 miles away 14:22:01 ~eval 100 * 1.609 14:22:02 160.9 14:22:19 uhm. yeah. multiplication by one hundred. you guys didn't see nothing at all. 14:22:50 ~eval 百 * 二十から五 14:22:51 Error (1): Not in scope: `百'Not in scope: `二十から五' 14:22:54 Pff 14:23:44 Roujo: eille :p 14:26:57 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:28:19 boily: 'faudrait que tu japonise ton cuttlefish 14:29:02 Roujo: file in an issue on github! :) 14:29:18 ~duck pectopah 14:29:18 --- No relevant information 14:29:41 There's a congregation point for stupid cuttlefish? 14:31:12 Oh right, there 14:31:13 is* 14:31:15 https://github.com/pfcuttle/metasepia ← ISSUES! FILE THEM! ☺ 14:31:33 You put that on Github, but the repo is not quite useful =P 14:31:36 2 Commits: 14:31:42 "Initial" and "Initial Commit" 14:31:55 Source code? Not much, just an "Hello World" 14:32:40 I know. haven't had time to port the whole stuff to GHC 7.6. 14:32:50 like, all that error upheaval and stuff. 14:32:53 like. 14:33:23 It's easy 14:33:24 git add * 14:33:26 git commit 14:33:30 git push origin master 14:33:32 THERE YOU GO 14:33:58 nah. not going to make public the old version. 14:34:22 Oh. I see 14:35:20 well. some people in the chännel saw some parts. they can witness that it really shouldn't be made public :p 14:35:38 (aaaaurgh. that missed occasion in Duck.hs where I could have used Alternative... it still burns...) 14:36:18 Gregor: you seem to have a Deep and Old hatred of Apple Products. 14:36:47 That's because their products are awful, the company is awful, and everything they stand for is awful. 14:38:15 >okay 14:43:33 -!- augur has joined. 14:50:19 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 14:51:02 -!- Koen has quit (Quit: Koen). 14:53:38 boily: I put an issue on Github 14:53:58 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 14:55:28 Hello 14:55:55 おはよう！ 14:56:47 -!- augur has joined. 15:04:26 I... I agree with one of kmc's quotes. I feel very strange. 15:05:23 -!- yorick has joined. 15:05:28 Which one would that be? 15:05:56 `quote colemak 15:05:58 818) colemak is for people who think dvorak is too mainstream 15:06:06 -!- conehead has joined. 15:06:12 Sure 15:06:23 Also, un clavier AZERTY en vaut deux 15:06:25 So there 15:06:49 * boily bops Roujo with a Model M keyboard 15:07:29 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:21:05 -!- nisstyre has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:21:50 -!- zzo38 has joined. 15:23:56 -!- carado has joined. 15:24:42 -!- epicmonkey has joined. 15:38:59 Now I found the esolang Urn. I like this too. 16:00:06 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:08:09 I added some things in list of ideas 16:08:22 Funge like where the acceleration changes rather than the direction (although you can change the acceleration in any directions). 16:21:06 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:25:16 That's a pretty good idea 16:25:49 Perhaps ^ < v > apply a force 16:25:54 And you can change the pointer's mass 16:32:25 and when you go too fast special relativity drops in? 16:37:16 -!- augur has joined. 16:39:09 -!- nooodl has joined. 16:54:41 -!- updog has joined. 16:59:39 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 17:03:59 -!- Bike has joined. 17:04:15 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:11:45 -!- epicmonkey has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 17:28:35 back from lunch, and the funge is accelerated. 17:28:57 I tried a bún riêu today. it smells bad, but it tastes good ^^ 17:31:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:38:08 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Rebooting). 17:46:53 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has joined. 17:49:17 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:04:16 -!- Bike_ has joined. 18:04:23 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:04:48 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 18:04:56 -!- Nisstyre-laptop has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:05:30 new gaming categories are ridiculous. roguelikes are too mainstream, so now there are roguelikelikes. 18:06:03 Ha 18:06:04 "action-adventure" of course was always a sensible categorization 18:06:43 i still don't really understand why action-adventure is different from rpg 18:07:09 Where are my adventure point-and-clicks :( 18:07:29 my earliest memory of gaming genres is asking what "RP" meant in an ESRB rating and being told it stood for Role Playing Game, because in Starfox Adventures you played the role of Fox. 18:07:39 it's pretty much been downhill from there 18:07:44 Holy... 18:07:46 Phantom_Hoover: in action-adventure, you get action and adventure. in rpg you get scantily clad effeminate male protagonists. 18:08:10 well that's the crux really, rpg is hilariously broad 18:08:31 Borderland is an action-adventure FPSRPG 18:08:38 *Fun* 18:08:42 Borderlands* 18:09:24 like it includes, as a genre, games where the player character is a fixed character independent of player input; and games where the PC has no characterisation whatsoever beyond that imposed on them 18:10:33 I'd like to see one day a cross between Call of Duty and Katamari. 18:11:11 It's almost, ALMOST as if humans have a natural tendency to categorize. 18:11:13 What a tragedy. 18:11:40 it's definitely tragic when human function doesn't match our idea of human function. 18:11:46 human function is an asshole. 18:11:49 fact 18:12:08 Gregor: playing with the quotes, I came to create ad hoc categories: people obsessed with sex, and insane people. 18:12:20 Gregor, yes but when you name the category after something that varies wildly within that category... 18:12:44 "People" 18:13:29 boily: Also, those two aren't mutually exclusive 18:14:07 http://fileformats.archiveteam.org/ this seems very zzo38 18:15:17 Roujo: yes. 18:15:39 Bike: how do you measure zzoness? 18:15:41 boily: はい 18:16:14 boily: a special MSX Computer program i have 18:16:56 "A man who fucks bicycles is on the loose in Sweden." 18:16:57 Bike: plausible. 18:17:07 what? 18:18:07 boily: 何 18:20:28 Roujo: 海老。 18:20:38 boily: 何 18:20:54 "shrimp" 18:20:56 >okay 18:29:48 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 18:38:55 @tell Patashu congratulations! you are another member of the Great People Revolutionary Association of People Who Were There, But Are Not 18:38:55 Consider it noted. 18:40:42 -!- clog has joined. 18:43:42 ~duck bonkers 18:43:42 bonkers definition: crazy, mad. 18:44:34 @tell oerjan lutefisk. in a microwave. you are mad. 18:44:34 Consider it noted. 18:44:58 @tell oerjan boily: Well yeah. We know that by now. 18:44:58 Consider it noted. 18:46:07 Roujo: oerjan is a fine example of the insane people category. 18:46:16 Cool, cool 18:46:23 Where do I fit in? 18:47:28 eeeeeh... the Canadian category? 18:49:58 Woot woot 18:50:21