←2013-10-01 2013-10-02 2013-10-03→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:05:36 <kmc> 't is common to respond to an e-mail rendered unreadable by character mangling (referred to as "betűszemét", meaning "garbage lettering") with the phrase "Árvíztűrő tükörfúrógép", a nonsense phrase (literally "Flood-resistant mirror-drilling machine") containing all accented characters used in Hungarian.'
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00:08:52 <ais523> kmc: that phrase isn't nonsensical, it describes an entirely well-defined object
00:08:59 <ais523> if not a particularly useful one
00:09:43 <ais523> hmm… "Árvíztűrő" is way easier to pronounce than "tükörfúrógép"
00:09:44 <ais523> I just tried
00:11:34 <ais523> Hungarian words can be hard to pronounce because all words inflect the same way
00:11:46 <ais523> regardless of how hard the added letters for the inflection might be to pronounce in context
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00:19:21 * Sgeo facepalms at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYMeOLpk5_8
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00:29:22 <Taneb> Had a fun evening
00:29:34 <Taneb> Watched the Avengers followed by Monty Python and the Holy Grail
00:31:23 <zzo38> Have you ever played flipperless pinball games?
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00:37:22 <ais523> zzo38: no
00:38:10 <oerjan> shall we have a betting pool of how soon before Taneb's sleep schedule unravels
00:38:20 <oerjan> *on
00:38:46 <Taneb> oerjan, I just found out that while I was watching these movies, a fire occured in my flat complex thing!
00:38:56 <oerjan> fancy
00:39:05 <Taneb> Apparently they had to evacuate and some people have to be rehoused
00:39:06 <zzo38> Have you played other pinball games?
00:39:50 <oerjan> have you played ball-less pinball games
00:40:01 <oerjan> or pin-less, for that matter.
00:40:18 <kmc> Taneb: .... wowo
00:40:22 <kmc> Taneb: glad you are not on fire
00:40:27 <Taneb> So am I
00:40:44 <Taneb> It was a different block, I think
00:40:58 <Taneb> I'm not even sure
00:41:09 <kmc> (here I assume that if you were on fire, you'd deal with that problem before getting on IRC)
00:43:05 <Taneb> (if I was on fire I'd log in to IRC and say something like "help im on fire what do")
00:43:32 <zzo38> oerjan: I don't think you can; you can't make a pinball game if there is no ball, or no pin for the ball to bounce against (well, some have no pins but there are still walls to bounce against)
00:43:42 <oerjan> huh apparently flipperless pinball was a thing before the flippers were invented
00:44:02 <zzo38> Yes in a movie theatre once I have played a pinball game with no pins; it was the one to win gum balls
00:44:30 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes and sometimes it is still being played, especially on the computer, I think, flipperless pinball games are being made
00:45:31 <zzo38> A few people have tried to make flipperless pinball games just by removing the flippers from a flippered game, although that has bad results; best is to design the table layout to work with flipperless.
00:45:45 <ais523> I think the flippers are an improvement
00:46:31 <zzo38> ais523: W ell, kind of, yes you can make a lot of flippered pinball games, which is an improvement, although pinball games can be made that work just fine without any flippers.
00:46:32 <Taneb> Weren't flippers added to get around gambling laws?
00:46:59 <zzo38> Taneb: I read somewhere that playing more than one ball for a single coin was added to get around gambling laws, but not flippers.
00:47:55 <Sgeo> Flippers makes more sense as a workaround for gambling laws
00:48:02 <Sgeo> Which doesn't mean it's true ofc
00:48:03 <kmc> what's the law?
00:48:19 <zzo38> Even just today I play a flipperless pinball game that actually does have one flipper, although the player has no direct control over it; it flips whenever one of two bumpers are hit (these bumpers are close enough that there is a reasonable chance that the flipper will hit the ball if it does that)
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00:49:28 <Taneb> The powers that be are on to zzo
00:49:51 <ais523> apparently peer is online right now, under a different nick
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00:50:07 <ais523> presumably they're fed up of people asking them to stop resetting their connection
00:50:23 <zzo38> Oops there was some connection error; if you replied then please reply again.
00:51:02 <ais523> we were discussing the connection error
00:52:36 <Taneb> Anyone know how to install .fon fonts in Ubuntu?
00:53:27 <zzo38> Many modern flipperless games I have played on computer omit the tilt sensor, although some flippered games do too (such as Pokemon Pinball). (I don't think tilt sensor is suitable for the computer game anyways; you have to push a key to nudge and the computer simulation doesn't have to move the table far enough to result a tilt anyways, therefore it shouldn't be needed.)
00:53:38 <oerjan> peer du lyver
00:54:17 <kmc> the peer is coming from inside the house
00:55:01 <zzo38> Most computer pinball games just tilt if you nudge too often. Alternatives I have seen are in Spade Cadet, it tilts if you hold down the nudge key for too long instead, and in Knickknack it won't let you nudge more often than once a second.
00:55:25 <zzo38> (The nudge key will simply do nothing if you push it too often.)
00:56:10 <zzo38> I have heard from someone once of a pinball table that tilts if you hold down the flipper button for too long, too.
00:56:54 <ais523> zzo38: I've played one that tilts if you press the flipper buttons too hard
00:57:00 <ais523> presumably people kept doing that and breaking it
00:57:22 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, I suppose that would work.
00:59:38 <zzo38> My opinion is a computer pinball game needs no tilt penalty; a physical pinball game does need a tilt penalty to prevent lifting or breaking it.
01:00:55 <Bike> i'd be impressed if a computer pinball game had a real tilt sensor
01:01:20 <zzo38> Bike: Maybe such thing can be made using Wii remotes
01:01:51 <ais523> or the accelerometer in a smartphone
01:01:55 <Bike> wii pinball, with virtual flippers.
01:02:07 <ais523> actually, smartphones would be pretty suited to tilt-sensitive pinball
01:02:35 <Bike> even i have a phone game that uses the orientation sensor.
01:02:51 <zzo38> Bike: Well you could use two of the buttons as flippers and one as plunger (and one for pause); or make a flipperless game so only the plunger button is needed.
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01:03:08 <Bike> no, no, you have two remotes, each of which is a flipper.
01:03:37 <zzo38> Bike: Then how should you nudge? It would make nudging confusing wouldn't it?
01:03:49 <Bike> you gotta mooooove your body
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01:05:34 <zzo38> In Pokemon Pinball bonus stages, once the timer expires the flippers will stop working; however you can still nudge. In the Meowth stage, Meowth stops moving and stops throwing money on the board, although any remaining money can still be hit with the ball, so nudging the table to make the ball hit them would help, however the flippers don't work so if the money is too high you probably cannot hit it anymore.
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01:10:18 <zzo38> My computer makes some unusual noise do you know how to fix it?
01:10:36 <kmc> depends on the noise
01:11:40 <zzo38> It seem to make the noise while simulating the physics of the pinball game; when it is paused, it doesn't make such noise though. It does make noise in other times too though sometimes
01:11:56 <zzo38> I also heard something knocking in the computer.
01:13:02 <kmc> odd
01:13:56 <zzo38> Also when listing directory and other stuff; perhaps it is when doing a lot of computations at once, it is making a noise.
01:15:02 <zzo38> Also like I said before, sometimes the picture seems to have an imperfect clock rate.
01:15:26 <zzo38> Does this have something to do with it too?
01:16:36 <Bike> does anything in a computer even make noise besides the fan? the disks i guess if you're a pleb
01:17:50 <kmc> sometimes the capacitors start to hum / whine
01:17:54 <zzo38> Yes the disks make noise but I think it is a different noise
01:17:55 <kmc> also sometimes they explode
01:18:05 <zzo38> kmc: Why do the capacitors start to hum / whine?
01:18:07 <kmc> coils too. power supplies definitely make noise
01:18:09 <kmc> zzo38: i don't know
01:18:12 <shachaf> sometimes the cpu makes noise
01:18:18 <shachaf> "exciting side channels"
01:18:25 <zzo38> Why does the CPU make noise?
01:18:29 <kmc> if you're pushing reasonable amps at 60 Hz then odds are high that something will mechanically vibrate at 60 Hz
01:19:06 <zzo38> It didn't make these noises yesterday (although the picture had imperfect clock rate yesterday)
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01:21:03 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetostriction oh, that's cool.
01:23:11 <zzo38> Perhaps it is the CPU making noise but I don't know how it would do that. Or at least it has something to do with the CPU; I don't know if it is the CPU doing this or not.
01:23:38 <zzo38> (The CPU is Intel Celeron 2.00GHz)
01:27:19 <oerjan> <shachaf> kmc: what's a good naming scheme for lenses onto one or more values, zero or one values, zero or more values <-- isn't the second just Prism
01:27:31 <shachaf> no, Prism is more than that
01:27:40 <shachaf> it lets you construct!!!!! that's half the point
01:28:06 <shachaf> these things are just Lens+ Lens? Lens*
01:28:19 <oerjan> OKAY
01:29:14 <Bike> name them after types of giraffe, then.
01:29:27 <oerjan> OKAPI
01:32:34 * oerjan feels unappreciated.
01:32:50 <Bike> ok that was pretty good.
01:33:11 <oerjan> :)
01:33:26 <ais523> oh wow, I've accidentally designed a call-by-name function interface in C
01:33:29 <ais523> this is unexpectedly awesome
01:33:38 <ais523> and yeah, that was an awesome pun
01:33:42 <ais523> ~duck okapi
01:33:44 <zzo38> The noise does seem to be when the CPU is doing a lot of things.
01:34:00 <ais523> oh, metasepia isn't here
01:34:02 <zzo38> ais523: What call-by-name function interface in C did you design?
01:34:10 <oerjan> it goes where boily goes
01:34:15 <ais523> zzo38: the library calls into a plugin to ask it to update someting
01:34:22 <ais523> then the plugin has to call back into the library to ask what to update
01:34:39 <ais523> this is how you implement a call-by-name interface in a call-by-value language
01:34:43 <ais523> only I did it by mistake
01:36:17 <Bike> archive.org has backed up the united states government's web presence. it's the beginning of the end, folks.
01:37:25 <ais523> it's only the real beginning of the end in like two or three weaks
01:37:27 <ais523> *weeks
01:37:31 <ais523> when the US defaults on its loans
01:37:47 <Bike> no this is much more real than that.
01:37:50 <ais523> I'm not sure whether or not that would completely destroy the world economy, and it's /really worrying/ that I'm not sure
01:38:19 <Bike> why would defaulting on loans destroy the world economy
01:39:06 <ais523> Bike: giving a loan to someone creates money out of thin air; the person who loaned it out still has it because the debt is worth value, and the person it was loaned to /also/ has it because they can spend it
01:39:14 <ais523> if the loan is repaid, everything works out fine
01:39:42 <ais523> if it isn't, though, some of the created money simply vanishes, and it can take a long time for the financial systems to work out where it vanished from
01:39:52 <ais523> because of all the recursive loaning that's going on
01:40:03 <ais523> thus, defaulting causes some amount of uncertainty as to the existence of money
01:40:20 <ais523> a really really large default causes a really really large amount of money to become very uncertain
01:40:35 <ais523> and it's hard to have a functioning economy in a situation where you can't work out how much anyone actually owns
01:40:42 <zzo38> I looked and found someone says the power supply is making noise because the CPU is using too much power.
01:40:49 <Fiora> what would it mean for the US to default on its loans given that the US also defines/controls the value of the dollar?
01:41:17 <elliott> does anyone actually believe the US will pay off its debts as it stands?
01:41:41 <Fiora> well, the US does pay of its debts, it just issues new ones, right?
01:41:43 <ais523> Fiora: well they could pay them off by just artificially creating that many dollars, but that would cause the value of all the existing dollars to reduce
01:41:48 <Bike> if triply imaginary money destroyed the economy i'd be living in a cave rn
01:42:02 <ais523> in proportion to the ratio between the amount that already existed, and the amount printed
01:42:32 <ais523> it's quite possible that if they just didn't pay, the value of the dollar would drop by a similar amount for a similar reason (because not paying, and paying with freshly minted money, is pretty much equivalent)
01:43:29 <ais523> the US's national debt is of a similar value to its entire GDP, meaning that I guess the value of the dollar would approximately halve
01:44:10 <ais523> and that'd have some pretty crazy knock-on effects in the world economy too
01:44:14 <oerjan> guess who is making estimates out of thin air
01:44:14 <Fiora> GDP isn't assets though, is it...?
01:44:34 <Fiora> or money supply, I guess...
01:45:02 <ais523> oerjan: me!
01:45:09 <oerjan> ding ding ding!
01:45:13 <ais523> I'm not massively good at enonomics
01:45:18 <ais523> I live with an economist, but it's only microeconomics
01:45:30 <ais523> that's why I have to make rough guesses
01:45:34 <ais523> rather than actually knowing
01:45:37 <Bike> "Debt held by the public as a percentage of GDP rose from 34.7% GDP in 2000 to 40.5% in 2008 and 67.7% in 2011."
01:46:00 <Bike> It's 108% if you include states and smaller municipalities' debts. which doesn't make sense here of course.
01:46:01 <ais523> well, it's more maths than economics
01:46:20 <ais523> Bike: it's also above 100% if you include intergovernmental loans, according to Wikipedia
01:46:27 <ais523> which possibly are relevant here
01:47:05 <zzo38> I moved the computer slightly and the noise is now reduced, although I am not sure if I can still hear it or not.
01:47:12 <ais523> err, intragovernmental
01:47:12 <Bike> "History - See also: United States debt-ceiling crisis of 2011 and United States debt-ceiling crisis of 2013" good article
01:48:53 <ais523> also apparently many of the US loans have interest rates below inflation
01:48:57 <ais523> so they become smaller over time
01:49:55 <Bike> ah right, this is where the Rogoff and Reinhart study was
01:49:57 <Bike> good stuff
01:51:05 <Fiora> ais523: yeah, that's the whole reason behind quantitative easing
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01:51:12 <Fiora> like if I remember right
01:51:21 <Fiora> the government regulates inflation by adjusting the rates on government loans
01:51:32 <Fiora> but recently like a few years back those rates reached... 0%
01:51:36 <Fiora> and inflation was still too low
01:51:52 <Fiora> so they had the fed start buying its own loans to try to get inflation to go up
01:52:00 <Bike> looking forward to the extension of interest rates into the imaginary axis.
01:52:08 <Fiora> which is kind of the only thing they can do since you can't really go below zero?
01:54:30 <zzo38> The noise is still there, although it is reduced a bit from before.
01:55:05 <Bike> actually, continuously compounded interest is an exponential function, isn't it. with an imaginary rate would you spiral outwards
01:56:42 <oerjan> exponential with imaginary rate ~= sine or cosine
01:57:39 <Bike> ye
01:57:42 <oerjan> e^(a+ib) = e^a * (cos b + i sin b)
01:57:51 <ais523> oerjan: well it's more rotatey than a sine or cosine
01:57:56 <ais523> it has both real and imaginary components
01:58:29 <oerjan> in any case, the imaginary component causes cyclic behavior, not growth.
02:00:04 <ais523> yes
02:00:25 <ais523> actually the complex exponential function is one of the few four-dimensional objects that it'd be really useful to be able to visualise
02:01:01 <Bike> maybe i'm just actually this dumb, but shouldn't it grow as the real part grows.
02:01:09 <Sgeo> Can too little inflation be bad?
02:01:14 <Bike> yeah
02:01:58 <oerjan> Bike: yes, but that's caused by the real component, not the imaginary one
02:02:08 <ais523> Sgeo: negative inflation is normally considered to be a total disaster
02:02:14 <ais523> although too much positive inflation is also bad
02:02:36 <Sgeo> negative inflation = depression?
02:02:43 <oerjan> deflation
02:03:35 <oerjan> when inflation is negative, money gets worth more over time, so no one has an incentive to use more than absolutely necessary
02:03:57 <oerjan> which hurts investment and productivity
02:04:43 <ais523> this is one of the main criticisms against bitcoin
02:04:52 <Sgeo> Why not literally print money during deflation? Doesn't printing money increase inflation?
02:04:57 <ais523> that it seems designed for it to be a bad idea for anyone to ever spend it
02:05:05 <ais523> Sgeo: yeah, that's one possible way to fix deflation
02:05:06 <Sgeo> ais523: like the pizza?
02:05:22 <ais523> probably quite a common one in practice, too
02:05:36 <ais523> but the thing about economics is, changing anything has all sorts of knock-on effects
02:05:46 <ais523> this is why I'm so against the Euro (whilst mostly being a fan of the EU)
02:06:04 <ais523> pegging countries' currencies to each other means that there are fewer dials you can adjust to try to fix a broken economy
02:06:05 <Bike> because you're worried about nonspecific effects from any change?
02:06:08 <Bike> oh.
02:06:17 <Bike> ok good i was going to stare at you.
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02:14:47 <Sgeo> Are traditional turtle graphics able to find where they are?
02:14:59 <ais523> Sgeo: not as far as I know
02:15:15 <Sgeo> Ok, so I can't rant about Racket's turtle graphics sucking
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02:31:54 <Bike> isn't that part of the point? so you have to plan everything in advance?
02:42:25 <Sgeo> There's a point?
02:43:14 <oerjan> yeah it's under the turtle
02:43:15 <Bike> of course, it's for education.
02:43:18 <Sgeo> Hmm, Racket's doesn't have varying pen sizes
02:54:05 <Sgeo> woah this code is old
02:54:06 <Sgeo> (module value-turtles mzscheme
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03:03:18 <ais523> hey, C correctness question: is it legal to compare NULL to a pointer to deallocated data?
03:03:41 <ais523> for equality
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03:13:01 <oerjan> ais523: no http://c-faq.com/malloc/ptrafterfree.html
03:13:06 <zzo38> I tried reducing the DRAM speed to see if that helps somehow; at least the video isn't wrong again (except in the BIOS configuration menu; it is still wrong during that)
03:13:26 <zzo38> The noise seems to be gone too
03:13:38 <ais523> oerjan: bleh
03:13:54 <ais523> I guess I'll fix this later
03:14:02 <ais523> it's unlikely to be a problem in any sane implementation
03:14:23 <zzo38> The listed temperature in the BIOS menu was below 60 C (which is what the setting for the shutdown temperature is)
03:20:30 <ais523> actualy, I'll fix it via converting all copies of that pointer to a pointer to static memory just before the free
03:20:36 <ais523> apart from the copy I'm actually freeing
03:21:08 <ais523> oh, here's a stupid bit of API design for oyu
03:21:09 <ais523> *you
03:21:15 <ais523> libpng requires the use of setjmp to avoid errors
03:21:29 <Bike> nice
03:21:37 <ais523> it also requires you to free its structures via a function which takes a pointer to a pointer to its structures as an argument
03:22:01 <ais523> e.g. if I want to free a png_ptr, I call something along the lines of png_free(&png_ptr), although the actual function has more arguments
03:22:35 <ais523> now, if my png_ptr is stack allocated, it has to be volatile because of the setjmp (I want to be able to free it after an error)
03:22:53 <ais523> however, the free function doesn't take a png_struct * volatile *
03:23:00 <ais523> so I have to copy it to another variable just to be able to free it
03:25:17 <zzo38> Oops now the bad video and noises are starting again
03:25:24 <Bike> zzo38, anyone else fond of 6502: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/textfiles/the-jason-scott-documentary-three-pack/posts/615823
03:27:10 <Sgeo> "and there are system architectures for which such exceptions would be quite natural.)"
03:27:16 <Sgeo> That I'm curious about
03:28:58 <zzo38> O, Kickstarter is available in Canada now.
03:33:38 <zzo38> Sgeo: Is that the "Future Systems" that does that?
03:34:07 <Sgeo> No idea what architectures that make sense for
03:47:05 <zzo38> libpng is full of other stupid stuff too, I think; I use LodePNG
03:47:38 <zzo38> LodePNG is much better
03:53:50 <zzo38> I found out that the heating vent in this room wasn't completely covered; I covered it now, in case that helps with the computer
03:56:44 <zzo38> I know that in Verilog the name of a module call can be useful for debugging (and potentially for other purposes too), so in HWPL it is optional (most commands can have a LABEL clause to do this).
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04:07:35 <zzo38> Things I haven't added yet but probably should includes primitive CMOS/NMOS/PMOS transistors (which Verilog includes), and some analog stuff. Is the macros good enough current, you think so?
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04:54:52 <ais523> `welcome shikhin
04:54:58 <HackEgo> shikhin: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
05:04:43 <zzo38> shikhin: Who are you today?
05:05:33 <shachaf> zzo38: Who are you today?
05:05:53 <zzo38> shachaf: I am Aaron Black today, I suppose...
05:06:56 <shachaf> @brain
05:06:56 <lambdabot> They've turned into giant Swiss leaderhosen-clad dancing yodelers. Talk about unpredictable!
05:07:31 * oerjan eyes zzo38 and shachaf suspiciously
05:38:04 <zzo38> Do you think LodePNG is better?
05:38:19 <shachaf> Than whom?
05:39:23 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Joladatihi!).
05:42:33 <zzo38> Is better than libpng.
05:49:26 <ais523> no, Ubuntu, it is not a problem that valgrind segfaulted
05:49:31 <ais523> it doe that if the program it's running segfaults
05:49:33 <ais523> *does
05:49:46 <ais523> which is quite likely, because valgrind is the program I run for the purpose of diagnosing segfaults
06:05:00 <shikhin> ais523: That's the third welcome I've been given, here. :-)
06:05:07 <ais523> :)
06:05:10 <shikhin> zzo38: Hmm, probably shikhin.
06:05:11 <ais523> err, :-)
06:05:21 <ais523> according to the RFCs for IRC, the hyphen is required
06:05:29 <ais523> or well, it's in the only example given of one
06:05:44 <Bike> examples are not normative!! probably
06:05:46 <ais523> but I keep flattening the smileys out of habit
06:05:57 <shikhin> :) looks ugly, too.
06:06:06 <shikhin> (especially on a monospace font)
06:06:38 <zzo38> I have heard of stuff that Ubuntu does a bunch of stupid things by default, although you can change these things.
06:06:42 <shachaf> Which RFC?
06:07:01 <ais523> the one about netiquette
06:07:03 <ais523> I linked it a while back
06:07:09 <ais523> can't remember the number
06:07:13 <shachaf> Aha.
06:07:22 <ais523> also, a bug in my program just filled the screen with smiley faes
06:07:24 <ais523> *faces
06:07:31 <ais523> then double-freed when I tried to exit it
06:07:39 <shachaf> Hmm, the RFC says too use them sparingly.
06:07:41 <ais523> valgrinding it now to catch the double free
06:07:53 <ais523> in case it gives a hint as to where the smiley faces are coming from
06:07:55 <shachaf> silly ais523. free pointers, not doubles.
06:08:12 <ais523> (that isn't "character 0x01 in code page 437", which is the most likely cause that that particular character was rendered)
06:08:55 <shachaf> Is it a ☺ character?
06:08:59 <ais523> shachaf: yeah
06:09:22 <shachaf> That sounds like a strange bug.
06:10:10 <ais523> the smiley face bug?
06:10:26 <ais523> it's like the code's accidentally copying from the font rather than where it should be copying from
06:10:40 <shachaf> "Wait overnight to send emotional responses to messages. If you have really strong feelings about a subject, indicate it via FLAME ON/OFF enclosures."
06:11:14 <ais523> yup, that's exactly what it was doing
06:12:27 <shikhin> shachaf: That's from the RFC?
06:12:38 <ais523> shikhin: yep
06:13:52 <ais523> oh wow, now this is pretty
06:15:02 <ais523> hmm... there are two issues with this:
06:15:17 <ais523> a) SDL2 doesn't seem to be rendering to texture, it's just rendering directly to the screen
06:15:27 <ais523> b) I probably have the color channels in the wrong order
06:15:47 <ais523> before, the files I tested it with used only white and transparent
06:16:06 <ais523> which conveniently, are 0xffffffff and 0x00000000 in the 32bpp RGBA format I'm using
06:17:00 <ais523> this is meant to be opaque and dark gray, but instead it's semitransparent and red
06:17:17 <ais523> which leads me to conclude that the alpha channel is being interpreted as red
06:17:28 <ais523> perhaps I have the endianness backwards
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06:30:45 <fizzie> A "qemu -m" just used up 16 gigs of RAM and 9 gigs of swap.
06:30:52 <fizzie> Er, I mean, "qemu -m 512".
06:32:50 <ais523> yeah, endianness was backwards
06:46:46 <kmc> all those stupid C1 control characters and they didn't bother to standardize FLAME ON or FLAME OFF :<
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08:09:41 <Taneb> Anyone know a way I can get an alert when someone comes online on Facebook?
08:18:56 <shachaf> Pidgin?
08:27:26 <Taneb> Maybe
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10:04:09 <Jafet> https://twitter.com/big_ben_clock #kmc
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16:46:46 <boily> good morning?
16:49:34 <shachaf> Ö́̏R͙͒ ̵̮Ì̆S̘ͨ ̸ͫI̶̺T̼̉
16:51:44 <boily> eeek.
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17:44:10 <CorMeumLucidum> hello
17:44:20 <Bike> `welcome CorMeumLucidum
17:44:22 <HackEgo> CorMeumLucidum: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
17:44:58 <Bike> Phantom_Hoover: hoping for a MEANWHILE IN R/BITCOIN update today
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17:48:48 <Bike> bye
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18:08:36 <Bike> yup, already see somebody saying that a 25% drop in value is normal and it'll bounce back
18:08:43 <zzo38> I looked inside the computer and I see no damaged capacitors. I vacuumed it inside in case it helps, but I don't know if it does. I still have problems with bad video, and something inside the computer is clicking.
18:09:00 <elliott> Bike: well, a 25% drop in value doesn't sound that abnormal for bitcoin.
18:09:12 <Bike> that's why it's funny, yeah
18:09:15 <mnoqy> healthy and natural
18:10:10 <Bike> anyway the important thing here is, it's going to be like a billion times harder for me to get #drugz w/o accidentally getting kmc arrested now
18:10:17 <elliott> http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nlb08/ross_ulbricht_was_sloppy_and_outted_himself/ccjmvf4?context=1 this guy was not the smartest illegal drugs site operator ever
18:10:40 <elliott> god, "hypothetically".
18:11:19 <Bike> i like that «a/k/a "Dread Pirate Roberts"» is in official documents.
18:11:54 <Bike> wow, he hired the hitman to kill someone who'd done a SQL injection? that's some cyberpunk shit
18:12:19 <mnoqy> i like the pictures in this thing
18:12:31 <mnoqy> exhibits A & B
18:13:12 <elliott> Bike: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1nl5ct/silk_road_seized_by_the_feds/ccjn1kr this is so weird
18:13:51 <zzo38> Do you know what is wrong with thsi computer?
18:15:07 <Bike> elliott: wat
18:16:29 <Bike> it's gonna be great when we see criminal incompetence all laid out like this since it's the future and all
18:16:48 <Bike> so uh, did the guy actually get murdered
18:17:50 <mnoqy> zzo38: clicking suggests one of the moving parts is brushing up against something. that'd mean fans or spinning discs, i guess?
18:18:40 <mnoqy> bad video could be because of a bunch of things. is the monitor okay? is the video card okay? are the cables okay? are you okay?
18:18:54 <Bike> i'm okay
18:19:00 <elliott> Bike: well it doesn't seem like the person who allegedly murdered them would have any reason to do it for the price given, assuming that comment is accurate
18:19:05 <elliott> unless they just like killing people.
18:19:25 <Bike> elliott: maybe they do just like killing people! i dont' "know" the "criminal" "mindset"
18:19:37 <Bike> especially the bitcriminal
18:20:01 <mnoqy> a cyberpunk reality masterminded by children
18:20:36 <Bike> maybe this will all turn out to be a synydyne ARG.
18:21:40 <Bike> http://media.tumblr.com/c907dd90564b1d759d746bd6a8c559fe/tumblr_inline_mu0qrxfYYQ1qdjjgt.png on a happier note, the government shutdown is going well
18:21:55 <zzo38> mnoqy: I think I cleaned the fans though; maybe a wire got caught inside though, but I think I moved those out of the way
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18:22:35 <mnoqy> Bike: …
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18:25:15 <boily> Bike: \ldots{}
18:25:17 <Bike> good news, bitcoin is back up to $120 after dropping from $140 to $110 in thirty minutes
18:25:57 <Bike> your investments are safe. unless they were in drugs.
18:26:12 <olsner> hmm, are the wars on terror and drugs halted then?
18:26:15 <zzo38> Now I found this "HWMonitor" program. Other than the temperature it also lists voltages and fan speeds. I notice that the -12V seems to be wrong; it is at -4 instead of -12 as it should be.
18:26:35 <olsner> that would be p. great for peace on earth etc
18:26:46 <mnoqy> Bike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmVQ-tpggyY
18:27:02 <Bike> alas, i don't see people makin stupid $250 sales to try to inflate the price
18:27:18 <zzo38> It lists the "THRM" temperature at 44 C
18:27:34 <Bike> mnoqy: good stuff in the relateds here
18:27:36 <zzo38> "TMPIN2" is at 45 C
18:27:56 <zzo38> Actally it is down to 44 now and sometimes even 43 but these are the max values
18:28:13 <zzo38> "TMPIN1" doesn't seem to work; it says 0 C.
18:28:36 <zzo38> The "FANIN0" is at 2860 RPM. Is this proper?
18:29:35 <zzo38> The hard drive temperature is at 37 C. Is this proper?
18:30:13 <zzo38> (I have two hard drives in my computer though; perhaps one doesn't have a temperature sensor?)
18:32:11 <zzo38> Perhaps the power supply is bad because the -12 voltage is at -4.
18:32:32 <zzo38> But I already replaced it once.
18:32:39 * boily stands far, far away from zzo38's machine
18:34:56 <zzo38> I also notice a "Fans PWM" section although all three values are 0%.
18:40:08 <zzo38> Maybe it would help to underclock the CPU, although I looked in the BIOS menu and the minimum setting is 100 and that is what it is set to. (The maximum setting is 132. I don't know what units these are in.)
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18:41:40 <zzo38> Although I also noticed for several years now that the RTC seems to be slow; it is always behind the correct date/time.
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18:48:19 <zzo38> Do you expect putting ice anywhere near the computer to help?
18:49:17 <boily> zzo38: dry ice.
18:59:03 <zzo38> How could anything get inside the disks?
18:59:14 <zzo38> It doesn't click all the time; only sometimes.
19:03:06 <elliott> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Click_of_death#Hard_disk_drives ?
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19:21:46 <kmc> http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/02/us-crime-silkroad-raid-idUSBRE9910TR20131002
19:23:32 <Bike> von mises. of course.
19:23:38 <kmc> yeah
19:23:39 <kmc> "During the raid, authorities seized $3.6 million worth of bitcoin"
19:24:24 <Bike> "You know how there's been reports of X dollars amount of Bitcoins being seized from Silk Road? You can know about 25% of that dollar value"
19:25:04 <ais523> one thing about bitcoin is that if everyone collectively refuses to respect a transaction, then they can
19:25:28 <ais523> like, they can just pretend it didn't happen
19:25:31 <Bike> looks like it's back up to $125/BTC.
19:25:31 <kmc> yeah is the FBI going to open an account at MtGox and transfer it out with Dwolla or some shit?
19:26:11 <ais523> kmc: well, they /could/; as long as MtGox could find a buyer for the bitcoins the FBI were selling, and they probably could, then it'd work just fine
19:26:13 <Bike> they need it 'cos of the shutdown hurr hurr
19:27:30 <kmc> haha
19:27:34 <kmc> FBI gotta get paid
19:27:36 * kmc -> lunch
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19:39:34 <Fiora> kmc: they could use coinbase I guess?
19:40:38 <Bike> we should email them with suggestions
19:48:32 <boily> Fiora: coinbase looks very interesting. do you use it?
19:48:50 <Fiora> Um, I used it like once to dump some of the bitcoins I had left
19:48:55 <Fiora> it was really simple and easy
19:49:40 <Fiora> I was going to use mtgox but then I realized they were requiring some crazy fancy identity verification and stuff and I really didn't want to hassle with that
19:49:51 <Fiora> (I should probably be glad I didn't use them now -_-)
19:50:47 <boily> same reason I didn't mtgox: my identity is my identity. okay with prooving that I am boily, but they are a little bit... overboard with all that.
19:51:43 <boily> oh well. all I need now are some shiny bitcoins.
19:52:57 <Bike> i hear there's now an opening for a classic, lucrative market
19:54:38 <olsner> ewww, lwip uses the current byte-order of the architecture and byteswap functions
19:57:07 <boily> that thing is still used?
19:57:53 <olsner> well, I use it since some time yesterday... not sure if anyone else does
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20:12:21 <Bike> "Moral of the SilkRoad bust: Don't ask PHP questions on Stack Overflow"
20:12:44 <kmc> ... is that how he got busted?
20:13:00 <shachaf> kmc: Did you see the PDF?
20:13:03 <kmc> no
20:13:15 <shachaf> http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf
20:13:24 <Bike> «in section 43 he post a question on stack overflow, asking "How can I connect to a Tor hidden service using curl in PHP?", using an account made under his name and then a minute later changed it to "frosty"»
20:13:41 <nooodl> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/15445285/how-can-i-connect-to-a-tor-hidden-service-using-curl-in-php
20:13:50 <kmc> omfg
20:14:07 <Fiora> there's the whole worry about parallel construction, but that sounds pretty, wow XD
20:15:08 <kmc> which page number shachaf
20:15:18 <shachaf> which page what
20:15:57 <Bike> from another answer to frosty, "Congratulations; you helped create the Silk Road :-)"
20:16:00 <Bike> internet is weird
20:16:04 <kmc> oh page 30
20:16:30 <Bike> i mean, not by the asker of course, he's not /that/ dumb
20:16:32 <shachaf> some of the rest of the pdf is also relevant
20:22:14 <boily> reddit comments on the thing are as redditty as ever.
20:32:08 <FireFly> "Based on my training and experience, I know that criminals seeking to hide their identity online will often use pseudonymous usernames to conceal their identity."
20:33:29 <ion> Shit, we’re busted.
20:33:37 <Gregor> Well well well.
20:33:46 <FireFly> Gregor: darn, I guess you're safe
20:33:53 <kmc> i'm not very pseudonymous either
20:34:06 <FireFly> ...when you're not using nicknames like 'Friendship', that is.
20:34:11 <Gregor> Hahaha
20:34:20 <FireFly> Or.. RocketSquirrel, was it?
20:35:03 <ion> Based on my training and experience, I know that I will prefix all my sentences with “Based on my training and experience, I know that”.
20:35:06 <FireFly> Eh, or did I mix things up now.. probably
20:35:19 <FireFly> ion: my thoughts exactly when reading that pdf
20:35:27 <olsner> "criminals seeking to hide their identity online will often [hide their identity online]."
20:35:50 <Gregor> FireFly: RocketJSquirrel.
20:36:02 <FireFly> Ah
20:40:10 <ais523> "clog << clog(2.718281828) << endl;"
20:41:14 <ais523> C++ can be awesome sometimes
20:41:30 <ais523> (the first clog is from <iostream>, the second from <cmath>)
20:41:38 <kmc> lol
20:41:56 <kmc> left shift clog by clog of e
20:42:31 <ais523> it's more a case of "how do you manage to give two identifiers in the standard library the same name"
20:44:46 <kmc> well they were introduced by C++ and C99 respectively, I think
20:44:53 <kmc> so maybe the committees don't talk to each other as much as they should ;P
20:45:10 <ais523> yeah
20:45:23 <ais523> apparently it's not a problem unless the one in <cmath> is a macro
20:45:37 <ais523> because in C, the first clog doesn't exist, and in C++, it can distinguish
20:46:03 <kmc> makes sense
20:46:17 <ais523> (because of overloading)
20:46:40 <kmc> just to be safe they should give the first clog an operator() which calls the other one
20:47:01 <olsner> if clog is a function macro it still works, I think? not sure if it portably works of course
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20:48:52 <ais523> olsner: not if someone puts spaces between it and the parens, I tihnk
20:48:54 <ais523> *think
20:48:56 <ais523> not sure on that though
20:49:07 <ais523> perhaps that's irrelevant
20:49:33 <ais523> it'd definitely matter if you produced the second clog as the result of expanding another macro, with some order of sequencing the #defines
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21:30:21 <tswett> So I tried to implement the Reidemeister moves in my new language: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Tuesday
21:30:27 <tswett> Turns out that my new language is pretty hard to work with.
21:32:42 <tswett> Certain things would be made significantly easier if you could specify that one rule takes priority over another.
21:35:58 <tswett> Like lambda calculus. You could say that the rule (replace (var X) with (var Y) in (var X)): (var Y); takes precedence over the rule (replace (var X) with (var Y) in (var Z): (var Z);.
21:36:35 <tswett> Whoops, an unmatched parenthesis. Let me mitigate the damage by closing it now.
21:36:35 <tswett> )
21:37:00 <boily> fungot: could you unbalance the parenthesises?
21:37:01 <fungot> boily: i know lots of lisp stuff. people _love_ it, they're popped and assigned to local variables on the stack then yes, i'm excluding those that use psyntax's module system,
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21:38:18 <tswett> Gotta go. Great conversation, everyone.
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21:39:10 <olsner> @tell tswett hth
21:39:10 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:39:36 <boily> @tell tswett htsetth
21:39:36 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:39:42 <boily> darn. missed a w.
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22:00:38 <coppro> oerjan: I have to sing finnish music this term
22:01:17 <coppro> fizzie: ^
22:01:34 <oerjan> excellentä
22:02:37 <fizzie> `run words --finnish 10 # some lyrics
22:02:40 <HackEgo> syytäväsi hapunokkaipa ikutiivissasi reistansa eettävässäännisammasi nostaan oleviä räisinnolleen koulultaan tuttamiassa
22:04:02 <coppro> how do you pronounce kaikki maat te riemuitkaatte?
22:04:24 <coppro> (apparently the song is a "psalmin" which I assume is a type of fish)
22:05:00 <fizzie> It's just a psalm.
22:05:02 <fizzie> @wn psalm
22:05:04 <lambdabot> *** "psalm" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
22:05:04 <lambdabot> Psalm
22:05:04 <lambdabot> n 1: one of the 150 lyrical poems and prayers that comprise the
22:05:06 <lambdabot> Book of Psalms in the Old Testament; said to have been
22:05:08 <lambdabot> written by David
22:05:10 <lambdabot> 2: any sacred song used to praise the deity
22:05:12 <lambdabot> v 1: sing or celebrate in psalms; "He psalms the works of God"
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22:05:38 <coppro> fizzie: 'twas a joke ;)
22:05:59 <FireFly> `run words --esoteric 10
22:06:01 <fizzie> As for pronunciation, I'm bad at explainin them but generally you can just map graphemes to phonemes in a straight-forward way.
22:06:01 <HackEgo> Unknown option: esoteric
22:06:07 <FireFly> `run words --esolang 10
22:06:10 <HackEgo> ctorylove elogi hcbf bf-pda cat hunter shakespeare ziim sqirrely alaguf
22:06:25 <coppro> fizzie: how do you pronounce the e? is it "tee" or "tay"?
22:06:55 <fizzie> coppro: http://translate.google.com/#fi/en/kaikki%20maat%20te%20riemuitkaatte and click on the speaker icon -- it's very close.
22:07:08 <coppro> that sounds like effort :P
22:07:15 <boily> `run words --french 20 # let's see if they are real French words...
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22:07:19 <HackEgo> baony cirtungt intes regref yinerissamp hidedio fustants rugiri fraggre doplees promîm pavées dederla expurrida bons lnutz cuis nefîicy andosacrétos holog
22:07:27 <fizzie> And it's the IPA /e/, or close enough.
22:07:51 <boily> mais c'est n'importe quoi!
22:07:52 <fizzie> Like the e in 'bed'.
22:08:39 <coppro> boily: il y a deux
22:09:54 <boily> coppro: je vois bien, mais n'empêche que 2/20, c'est pas fort.
22:10:10 <boily> `run words --french 20 # let's see if they are REAL French words again...
22:10:13 <HackEgo> pari pers nar anguait mécommie lous gyt profebruguâ croit rentiput luffice lau provendentem cinquière hoquemen infit ractan les érrent uilepin
22:10:41 <boily> coppro: à peine mieux.
22:10:58 <coppro> boily: oui, c'est ça
22:14:15 <boily> je m'insurge! je réclame un vrai dictionnaire! oui à la Domination Mondiale par le Français!
22:15:01 <Bike> verilog why do you not have an expressional cond. come on. come on
22:16:54 <oerjan> boily: bons and les were really words, right?
22:18:24 <boily> oerjan: I confirm «pavées», «bons», «pari», «croit» and «les» are real, common modern French words.
22:19:18 <boily> (paved FEM. PLUR., good PLUR., bet, (he) believes, the PLUR.)
22:21:03 <oerjan> il croit qu'ils sont bons mots
22:22:18 <boily> sorry if I sound pedantic, but: «il croit que ce sont de bons mots.»
22:22:27 <oerjan> ;_;
22:23:06 <boily> at least you conjugate your verbs better than most francophones.
22:23:19 <oerjan> yay!
22:24:17 <oerjan> also it's really annoying to use google translate for french when my browser refuses to accept ´ as a working dead key
22:24:37 <boily> eh?
22:24:59 <oerjan> well i was going to look up érrent
22:25:27 <boily> that one comes very close to «errent» (they wander).
22:26:05 <oerjan> on an errand, no doubt
22:26:07 <coppro> boily: j'ai compté «cuis», mais pas «pavées»
22:26:22 <boily> coppro: je ne connais pas le cuis. allons google translater la chose!
22:26:36 <boily> AAAARGH!
22:26:45 <boily> to cook.
22:26:47 <boily> obviously.
22:26:47 <coppro> lol
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22:27:24 <boily> la honte...
22:27:42 <oerjan> boily cuis des poulets
22:27:55 * oerjan didn't try to check that conjugation
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22:28:20 <coppro> boily: ce sont «pari» et «pavées»?
22:29:04 <boily> oerjan: nearly. third person, so «cuit».
22:29:42 <boily> coppro: a bet, and paved, as in paved roads: «routes pavées».
22:30:32 <coppro> ah, merçi!
22:30:39 <boily> dë riën.
22:31:01 <boily> bon, avec tout ça, j'ai faim. temps d'aller manger du poisson mort.
22:31:08 -!- boily has quit (Quit: SUSHI!).
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22:31:20 <coppro> ah, zut
22:32:00 <oerjan> poison du mort
22:32:49 <coppro> il á parti avant que j'aie eu l'opportunité de se dire «Est-çe que tu va cuire le poisson?»
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23:17:07 <shachaf> `quote
23:17:09 <HackEgo> 796) <kmc> the other day I bought a recycling can from amazon <kmc> it came in a cardboard box <kmc> i took the can out of the box, broke down the box, and put it in the can <kmc> it was amazing
23:17:25 <shachaf> `quote
23:17:26 <HackEgo> 49) <Warrigal> Porn. <Warrigal> There, see?
23:17:32 <shachaf> no
23:17:35 <shachaf> `quote
23:17:36 <HackEgo> 736) <zzo38> A lot of things happened; not only me, but also you
23:17:44 <shachaf> yes
23:18:14 <Bike> is zzo38 run by syndyne
23:19:31 <shachaf> `quote
23:19:33 <HackEgo> 1049) <kmc> i think delivery sushi is one of those habits that can rapidly consume all of one's money <kmc> like cocaine
23:19:39 <shachaf> `quote
23:19:41 <HackEgo> 531) <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed.
23:19:47 <shachaf> `delquote 531
23:19:54 <HackEgo> ​*poof* <shachaf> elliott: GHC bug? Come on, it's the parentheses. <shachaf> The more parentheses you add, the closer it is to LISP, and therefore the more dynamically-typed.
23:22:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
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23:22:55 <shachaf> `quote
23:22:56 <HackEgo> 582) <Phantom_Hoover> http://i.imgur.com/dosYw.png <Phantom_Hoover> WELCOME TO FUCKING STEELROMANCED
23:23:08 <shachaf> `quote
23:23:08 <oerjan> shachaf: what the hell was wrong with that quote, are you trying to make a squeaky clean image on the internet or something
23:23:09 <HackEgo> 266) <Gregor> Ohheywait, I can make it a raytracer instead of a photon tracer so long as I run time backwards.
23:23:18 <shachaf> oerjan: It's not good?
23:23:23 <shachaf> It's just pointless and stupid.
23:23:47 <Bike> my quotes are better than that quote, and my quotes are the bottom of the barrel. there you have it
23:23:57 <oerjan> Bike: O KAY
23:24:05 <shachaf> It doesn't meet whatever quality standards the quote database ought to have.
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23:25:04 <Phantom_Hoover> i'm surprised all my DF ones have survived the culls
23:25:12 <Taneb> I've just seen someone run past me in Sailor Moon cosplay (I think) with a Pikachu backpack]
23:25:32 <Phantom_Hoover> at... twenty past twelve?
23:26:03 <Bike> the witching hour
23:27:18 <Taneb> Phantom_Hoover, she (or possibly he) was leaving university accommodation
23:27:43 <Phantom_Hoover> some late-night sailor moon cosplay
23:28:15 <Fiora> maybe she was at a party or larp type thing with friends?
23:28:30 <Phantom_Hoover> larping at midnight??? on wednesday????
23:28:33 <Phantom_Hoover> it doesn't add up!
23:29:07 <Fiora> well okay my college had midnight larp type things but that was on friday or saturday.
23:29:39 <Phantom_Hoover> midnight larp just sounds hilarious
23:29:46 <Phantom_Hoover> like you're being all furtive and mystic about it
23:29:59 <Bike> pretty sure we were warned about midnight larping by jack chick.
23:30:28 <Fiora> it was actually people running around the main lecture complex with duct-tape daggers
23:31:44 <Phantom_Hoover> well that just sounds like a recipe for unpleasant misunderstandings
23:32:14 <Bike> pleasant knifeterstandings
23:32:21 <kmc> http://www.mit.edu/~assassin/
23:32:50 <kmc> we played Capture the Flag using the steam tunnels, does that count as LARP
23:33:06 <Bike> depends. did you pretend to have fur?
23:33:21 <Fiora> (I don't think that thing was very larpy. I knew someone who did actual larp though, she had a lot of fun with it)
23:33:59 <oerjan> Bike: larp != furry
23:34:43 <Bike> nope
23:36:01 <oerjan> the intersection is probably non-empty, but they are entirely orthogonal concepts.
23:36:07 <Bike> nope
23:36:13 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o oerjan.
23:36:21 -!- oerjan has kicked Bike yes..
23:36:26 -!- oerjan has set channel mode: -o oerjan.
23:38:44 <Taneb> I can't bear bears
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23:58:00 <^v> nope
23:58:01 <^v> nope
23:58:38 <^v> also, protip: /cs kick #esoteric <name>
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