< 1382745683 634146 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe all prehistoric C implementations had sizeof(int) == sizeof(void*) < 1382745702 925690 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or used register calling convention and therefore were more flexible < 1382745864 669021 :Chef!~rooms@ip174-64-118-247.ga.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382745948 967250 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Koen_: it's not quite that bad http://c-faq.com/ansi/argpromos.html < 1382746040 607022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this also applies to printf arguments http://c-faq.com/varargs/promos.html < 1382746043 522762 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382746044 243671 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is arguably much safer to avoid ``narrow'' (char, short int, and float) function arguments and return types altogether. < 1382746070 895453 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically just use ints < 1382746084 738061 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and doubles but who needs them) < 1382746087 869164 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382746112 571378 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Client Quit < 1382746246 77753 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1382746269 297609 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to try writing prototypes for printf here and there < 1382746384 315428 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382746893 16383 :Tod-Autojoined2!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net NICK :TodPunk < 1382747052 19544 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :class (Eq s, SetType__ s) => SetType s where { type SetOf s :: *; ... }; constructSetType :: forall a c. (forall b. SetType b => SetOf b -> (b -> c) -> a) -> [c] -> a; ... Do you expect things like this is OK? < 1382747550 932054 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382747733 916370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think today's picture in wikipedia needs a nsfl warning. < 1382747832 2754 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382747849 87171 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :smallpox is kind of not safe for life, yeah. < 1382747908 998197 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey smallpox virus is life too < 1382747912 184446 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lets argue about that now) < 1382747913 757339 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yikes < 1382747924 828896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am old enough to have been vaccinated, i think. < 1382747962 522388 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :vaccines are pretty cool < 1382747995 203469 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, i just noticed that photo was taken barely two years after the war < 1382748005 284754 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should get more of them < 1382748010 766943 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't *think* I've been vaccinated for smallpox. But when I was young my dad was in the Army, and so we were overseas, so... maybe? < 1382748050 389918 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm old enough that I wasn't vaccinated for chicken pox at least? ^^; < 1382748072 914364 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I wasn't vaccinated for chicken pox either. < 1382748107 168975 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got chicken pox. Does that count? < 1382748122 390292 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it and my parents marketed me to their social circle as spreading it. Only 90s Kidz Remember < 1382748186 777378 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've had chicken pox. when i was 18. < 1382748206 200763 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I must have been like 10 < 1382748215 833398 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have scars in my face that are from it. < 1382748255 225845 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like 5? < 1382748275 228171 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have a scar on my shoulder which is from some vaccine, perhaps the smallpox one? < 1382748409 15367 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:4751:9692:922b:34ff:fed8:75d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Closest to a smallpox vaccine I *know* I've been is that I've been near someone with cowpox. < 1382748634 226772 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is $ in haskell just a prefix-notation parenthese for function application? < 1382748644 133342 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :parenthesis < 1382748679 376179 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually $ in Haskell is the infix form of id, but specialized for function application < 1382748705 794330 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has the lowest associativity because i dunno screw parens. < 1382749201 895105 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382749237 107801 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382749428 518075 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks < 1382749433 113800 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?" < 1382750000 97961 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 QUIT :Quit: Uguubee111118 < 1382750137 505015 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382750199 152677 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382750514 549810 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e NICK :myndzi` < 1382750546 200894 :myndzi`!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e NICK :myndzi < 1382750589 383791 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382750822 446670 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382751264 101125 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/jiGA < 1382752431 580632 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this Haskell program OK? < 1382753264 268227 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :isthishaskellprogramok.com < 1382753283 434344 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you not like layout syntax? < 1382753295 133030 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES (humorous subtitle) < 1382753318 794668 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :howfuckedismyhaskellprogram.com < 1382753335 982463 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: see foldr.com < 1382753362 506791 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really should say "=ω" not "=∞" don't you think < 1382753368 623752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fixes it using Element Inspector
< 1382753388 966468 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I personally don't like layout syntax (and a few other people also don't like). < 1382753411 508250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: does your Element Inspector have a save button < 1382753425 854122 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo add that feature < 1382753427 431440 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1382753429 172195 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not? < 1382753436 310711 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Firefox OS dev tools do, though < 1382753448 382357 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is just the Firefox element inspector thing) < 1382753459 444745 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :«onclick="f(this); return false"» < 1382753464 766681 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what's this then < 1382753465 414175 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't really know how to explain, but you can look up some reasons why some people don't like it, at least. < 1382753469 793633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(this) indeed < 1382753504 456568 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I ask about this Haskell program, I mean about its use for the purpose I intended to use it for. < 1382753511 247055 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :g++ -Weffc++ < 1382753540 821054 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the purpose you intended to use it for < 1382753551 853045 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: asking < 1382753647 248184 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Something like a constructor Graph :: forall x y. SetType x => SetOf x -> (x -> y) -> (x -> x -> Bool) -> Graph y; which isn't really a correct definition of a graph, but hopefully can explain clearly enough the use I intended? < 1382753676 570605 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't read it. just thought maybe that would help kmcists. < 1382753690 595079 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it? < 1382753718 86402 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you understand what I mean now, at least? < 1382753718 231929 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is x -> x -> Bool the "this is an edge" checker? what's y for? < 1382753731 806418 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: The y is in case the nodes have labels attached. < 1382753749 64296 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If they don't then y would just be ()) < 1382753774 114749 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand why a graph isn't just a set of vertices and a set of edges < 1382753787 972613 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Graph e v = Graph (e -> v) (e -> v) < 1382753814 137401 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it could < 1382753843 712456 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :time to understand shachaf's definition: approximately 40 seconds < 1382753847 110885 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, what I mean is if you want to make up such a "unique set" which is only this useful < 1382753852 870317 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graph A = (x y : A) -> Set < 1382753864 692472 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I can understand more easily though, in a few seconds < 1382753873 397975 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: What is that, then? < 1382753875 858109 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you just call me stupid < 1382753878 757009 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yours I don't know < 1382753895 573581 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: No, I just meant that I realized this specific purpose faster at this specific time. < 1382753901 233983 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Well, mine is a different sort of graph, with multiple edges and loops and so on. < 1382753920 241408 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i saw an article in a bio journal about hypergraphs the other day. that was odd < 1382753941 466883 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know it's just a functor from the category •⇉• to Set < 1382753944 298375 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a generalized relation, covering all sorts of odd graphs < 1382753945 107077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Your definition I do not understand. Do you explain it? < 1382753950 249577 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the natural transformations are graph homomorphisms < 1382753952 664127 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dependent < 1382753956 182052 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the notation. < 1382753963 722112 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graph A = A -> A -> Set < 1382753966 811733 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's equivalent < 1382753971 892626 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, another concept is just a functor? wow. wow. everything is explained. everything is clear now < 1382753975 328447 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is not useful < 1382753982 569715 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is, but not for computation < 1382753992 322718 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it useful for hugz < 1382753994 448774 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: But what is "Set" here then? I do not understand this dependent types very well. < 1382753995 283603 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like hugz < 1382754003 568840 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Set is like * in Haskell (I assume) < 1382754008 206294 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382754017 587726 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for every pair of values of that type < 1382754024 603424 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it produces another type < 1382754031 472496 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be empty (in which case there's no edge) < 1382754038 693848 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not, in which case there is < 1382754053 261697 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have arbitrary values living in the resulting type < 1382754061 717141 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it might have more than one edge < 1382754081 921047 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define a simple type on top of that that takes the transitive closure, or reflexive transitive closure < 1382754100 557943 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter also being "the free category of a graph" < 1382754161 17826 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: should i write that as ((Bool,e) -> v) or as (e -> Bool -> v) < 1382754173 129365 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: or as (e -> (v,v)) "that would be too simple" < 1382754185 563199 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :iunno, the original was cute. < 1382754234 931452 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not used to having edges as their own thing. maybe that's it. < 1382754245 891827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: OK, but I do not quite understand how you would have values of a type produce another type like that, it doesn't sense to me quite a lot though. < 1382754257 607366 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's dependent < 1382754262 475087 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo ur cute < 1382754272 239354 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"clearly i need to deal with infinite graphs more often" < 1382754274 455555 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :asl < 1382754290 772460 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are nonlinear dynamications functors < 1382754291 990322 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other day a bus driver made the asl sign for "no" and i understood < 1382754294 338714 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pleased < 1382754302 872554 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i a functor < 1382754308 653855 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a banana < 1382754317 295875 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am barbed wire < 1382754339 165668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried reading about depending type but I don't quite understand it. I have read a Haskell library that says it defines a "dependent sum type" and I can understand that library at least, but not what it has anything to do with dependent types. Actually when I tried to explain when I was asking how to make this program I made I was told about dependent types too, which I don't know. < 1382754358 4049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: What is it called, the things that my program is defining, though? < 1382754369 781435 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure! < 1382754389 441135 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :dependent sum types can be quite confusing < 1382754393 253167 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are awesome < 1382754411 916361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: sum types r confusing, other types less so < 1382754434 638017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, I can understand the Haskell library which says dependent sum types, even though I am not understanding the dependent sum types itself. < 1382754528 905005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I tried to define is that a value contained in some datatype is kind of like another type and a set of values in that type, where the only thing done on the values is check if it is equal to another one, and pass to a function that expects it. < 1382754548 269232 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't really making up a new type each time, but it fakes it. < 1382754569 731128 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: a dependent sum type is like a pair in haskell, where the type of the second half can refer to the value of the first half < 1382754576 151514 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a strange concept if you're not used to it < 1382754592 696960 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: why aren't there things that map between natural transformations < 1382754596 131911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also refered to reflection, which also tries to fake to make up a type but uses unsafeCoerce. My program does not involve unsafeCoerce. < 1382754608 896258 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Well, I know that, because I have read that program, and that is what it is. < 1382754611 484488 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: they exist, but they're unnatural and we don't talk about them < 1382754618 359581 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are they unnatural < 1382754622 332186 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a functor on the category of small natural transformations < 1382754627 726425 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: too natural is unnatural < 1382754630 695830 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such things are done in Haskell easily enough anyways, using forall, type parameters, and other stuff like that. < 1382754651 139814 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: is that a sequence of words that makes sense or just a sequence of words < 1382754659 464263 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well consider the speaker < 1382754666 51354 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the speaker is a bicycle < 1382754667 218151 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :an endofunctor. endomonoid. coexofunctor < 1382754669 105477 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1382754677 204394 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :endonote: don't listen to Bike < 1382754683 128450 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382754718 496101 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo the worst bike < 1382754782 99198 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo i've ridden some p. bad bikes recently < 1382754810 186731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And using GADTs. < 1382754855 695623 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Do you think my program does correctly what I intended though, at least? < 1382754996 538058 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ #chicken is too quiet < 1382755017 29799 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: not sure! what did you intend? < 1382755035 595383 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he already answered that a while up. < 1382755041 149953 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I wonder if you would like explicit-renaming/implicit-renaming macros < 1382755067 209845 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no DSL, you write a function that receives a few functions that aid in hygiene < 1382755071 544742 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are your thoughts on yaoi < 1382755073 819620 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you're writing in pure Scheme < 1382755088 896213 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1382755099 760549 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I looked and didn't understand < 1382755106 715159 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i didn't either < 1382755114 60905 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :low standard though < 1382755118 849373 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I can try to explain, perhaps, as, the function makes up a new set of its own type (actually Int, although it pretends it is a new type), and where values of this type can only be compared for equality. < 1382755194 943169 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this explanation good enough? < 1382755211 110474 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, a little better < 1382755214 516776 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your goal with it, though? < 1382755264 725684 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My example with the Graph constructor is one example (which doesn't actually define a graph though, and isn't really quite intended to anyways), but it is example of how it might be used, I mean. < 1382755285 415001 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's odd how a superclass refers to its subclass in methods < 1382755365 750469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I suppose such thing is odd, but it does work. < 1382755376 940547 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't doubt it, just trying to make sense of it < 1382755395 679249 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The SetType__ class is private, so that you can never use it) < 1382755428 970782 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382755436 749972 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1382755522 654958 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only type that has an instance is also private, meaning that values of such a type are only used in a polymorphic type signature < 1382755536 242629 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382755545 672440 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you force people to only use the class interface < 1382755556 352585 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1382755625 94374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although the point is also that you cannot check for type equality either, as if every call to emptySetOf and so on are of a different type which nobody knows. < 1382755640 928185 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1382755725 949149 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes sense, although it might pay to figure out how to make your exposed Set interface take the "contents" parameter directly < 1382755737 472156 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, perhaps not < 1382755742 246113 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1382755748 364182 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me or is this paper backwards < 1382755753 186809 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download;jsessionid=E9CB45AD79DE7268512C8A60D0C1A0BB?doi=10.1.1.53.5184&rep=rep1&type=pdf < 1382755776 65728 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you, looks fine to me < 1382755793 39030 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I was standing on my head < 1382755795 340508 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's backwards < 1382755846 740171 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just print it in this order and it'll be fine. < 1382755850 562888 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :more convenient imo < 1382755885 721823 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can configure the printer driver to work with it < 1382755891 796484 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just me, or is it saying that er macros are limited? < 1382755897 929682 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1382755973 545435 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: I think this program I made up in there not quite complete, since a few operations are missing, isn't it? < 1382756000 671207 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hich things can be constructed using only the exported interfaces and which cannot be? < 1382756027 191155 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: plz to link to the actual citeseer page instead of a pdf. < 1382756113 247047 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.53.5184 < 1382756129 503183 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you. < 1382756151 170950 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382756155 379401 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1382756157 184843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: https link plz < 1382756168 536327 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it won't help but i might as well ask) < 1382756200 321399 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. I still don't get hygenic macros at all. Maybe I should ask around #scheme for programs that really need them. < 1382756292 393326 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to recommend trying to understand syntax-case, but syntax-case comes with unneeded extra sugar called syntax-case that might hinder understanding < 1382756308 297390 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I think i get the basic idea of syntax case. < 1382756344 596408 :cybercortex2!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382756415 339914 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1382756500 135796 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just to clarify: syntax-case and not syntax-rules? syntax-case is the more complicated one that allows breaking hygiene < 1382756529 347417 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you specify what symbols are supposed to be literal and which ones aren't, right. < 1382756538 428060 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382756619 340723 :cybercortex2!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1382756625 43887 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-rules allows that too, but syntax-case is more flexible than that. And easily allows arbitrary Scheme computations < 1382756642 69721 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other (unrelated) question was how to make pattern matching with rosetrees, in SQL or in a C program that can be export functions to use with SQL. < 1382756656 763489 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make up such pattern matching? < 1382756667 162072 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, but "it allows what the other thing is based on" is kind of... i don't really care, you know what i mean? < 1382756763 466541 :cybercortex2!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382756764 687968 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I can think of is there will be the kind of patterns: A(P) A(* A(P) *) A(P *) ? where A is atom and P is a list of zero or more patterns. < 1382756790 914950 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this is kind of patterns I would need, how would it be doing, so that you can match and replacement? < 1382756826 83680 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1382756865 730856 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Nyit < 1382756882 919140 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: just trying to ascertain which one it is you know >.> < 1382756899 144300 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know either one that well, if that isn't obvious. < 1382757267 535616 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382757280 4719 :cybercortex!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 QUIT :Client Quit < 1382757288 149045 :cybercortex2!~cybercort@203.214.68.129 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1382757423 662504 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Do you think persistent data structures are generally not very effective without a GC? < 1382757690 97534 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the experience to say, really < 1382757693 301784 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like they wouldn't be < 1382757777 773564 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are there obvious ways to make a GC more efficient if you don't care about finding cycles? < 1382757792 801356 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :refcounting? < 1382757805 123160 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :is only sometimes more efficient < 1382757832 871054 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can come up with a few reasons that it would kill performance for a persistent concurrent hash trie or the like < 1382757835 867742 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dunno < 1382757839 220868 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried it < 1382757852 842059 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't doubt it. it's just the obvious for cyclefucking gc :p < 1382757861 22584 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION made an accidental pun there
< 1382757866 798577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! Ha! < 1382757875 911371 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you would be interested in cyclefucking wouldn't you < 1382757889 443425 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on a roll today folks < 1382757894 439081 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :my gc can find cycles but not bicycles < 1382757896 326716 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIKE A BICYCLE < 1382757897 751455 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :much like me! hyuk hyuk. my brakes are out, i'm going to die < 1382757909 526327 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know anything about pattern matching rose trees in general? < 1382757916 319490 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in SQL? < 1382757952 45032 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what a rose tree is, other than that it is probably depicted in the hit japanese cartoon show, Shōjo Kakumei Utena < 1382757955 599891 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe zzo38 means Proof General. < 1382757970 963470 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was riding a bicycle without working brakes recently < 1382757975 606616 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo not great < 1382757977 419154 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :taht's dangerous < 1382758013 144245 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :t̂'s dangerous < 1382758048 88860 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Apparently many of you missed it. I took a screenshot of all unauthenticated VNC servers on IPv4. It took 16 minutes. http://results.survey.tx.ai" < 1382758049 57205 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, in SQL, although it could be in C and then export the function to SQL. (It is operating on SQL data structures however.) < 1382758063 81965 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Rose tree is what in Haskell would be (Cofree []), although this program is C) < 1382758074 184216 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's cool how we're all doomed < 1382758109 711881 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see conal's talk on parallel scans < 1382758113 361242 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the links are broken :( < 1382758412 204407 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: you had a halting problem? < 1382758422 131632 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :[even my humor is stolen] < 1382758425 501380 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that's terrifying < 1382758448 460667 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just taken down? < 1382758467 234618 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks up to me < 1382758468 593879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see screenshots on http://results.survey.tx.ai/216.html < 1382758473 150133 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, no, there it goes. < 1382758483 553555 :Fiora!~Fiora@ec2-50-17-93-47.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :404 not found < 1382758499 256770 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no porn yet < 1382758522 896175 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a0cb98c247b3db5ffaba-2460f3ea0996e8d440cbab5ff57046e7.r23.cf2.rackcdn.com/216.230.224.203_5903.jpg < 1382758575 380170 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://a0cb98c247b3db5ffaba-2460f3ea0996e8d440cbab5ff57046e7.r23.cf2.rackcdn.com/216.200.140.167_5900.jpg < 1382758591 120860 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :THat icon looks like ActiveTcl... I assume it's actually ActivePerl < 1382758777 936780 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: nice. < 1382759031 886706 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1382759483 70582 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mutters about dead scheme communities
< 1382759680 910245 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is-not (that-which-can (eternal lie)) dead) < 1382760426 28211 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of my favorite things about Chicken Scheme is ir-macro-transformer. I find it to be the most intuitive hygienic macro system yet (using it isn't any more complicated than the traditional unhygienic define-macro)." < 1382760442 343404 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, that simplicity may come at a cost < 1382760609 980797 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ir? < 1382760617 4264 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :implicit renaming < 1382760647 854289 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Scheme make "law of excluded middle" continuations? You can define that and ordinary continuations in terms of each other (at least in Haskell you can). < 1382760650 562724 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Symbols that are returned are automatically renamed, unless you call inject on them (inject being a function supplied to the transformer along with the form) < 1382760696 286565 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)); callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x; < 1382760799 530480 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cont monad continuations are almost delimited continuations. You can build delimited continuations in standard Scheme with call/cc and a bit of mutable state, although it's horrible. Some Schemes and Schemelike systems also provide delimited continuations natively < 1382760829 143629 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean I understand your code, or what a "law of excluded middle" continuation is, just that I'm pretty sure the answer is 'yes' < 1382761444 792913 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Sure, why not? < 1382761485 57032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It means a thing that gives you a continuation when you call it. Then when you call the continuation with a value, it gives you that value. < 1382761845 686888 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think if I want the name of a bare input symbol to an IR-based macro... I can't get it < 1382761865 926877 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can compare against known symbols, but I don't think I can just easily convert to a string < 1382761896 49343 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because all the symbols come in 'renamed' < 1382761933 816013 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :variable < 1382762198 587692 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382762199 777038 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1382762901 728022 :Chef!~rooms@ip174-64-118-247.ga.at.cox.net QUIT :Quit: Rooms • iPhone IRC Client • http://www.roomsapp.mobi < 1382762953 59723 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.call-cc.org/paste?id=fd5f78e7052159d4df1dfed5cbec51d8e7017598 < 1382763081 832117 :^v!~DerpHerp@2601:4:4500:887:bc0c:dbda:ff27:7ab QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds < 1382765197 892511 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382765272 961749 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382765319 343130 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382765336 886260 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382765436 147332 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382765487 370522 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1382765508 356716 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1382765539 878713 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382765844 195540 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ? < 1382765895 529312 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't get 4oD to work < 1382765902 732384 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I can't watch Agents of SHIELD < 1382766178 804280 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382766365 162276 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382767003 705888 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1382767004 690213 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... this thing about Chicken just recommended autoconf and automake < 1382767011 783273 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should just run far, far away < 1382767030 426313 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will autoconf and automake help me watch Agents of SHIELD < 1382767131 896833 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382767184 642581 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's theoretically possible for at least some hypothetical problems preventing 4oD access < 1382767275 268899 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382767713 297508 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is agents of shield. is it an anime < 1382767745 997898 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about some agents of shield < 1382767755 458709 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's made by disney < 1382767849 304058 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the fuck is everyone talking about anime now < 1382768004 478502 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :anime is great < 1382768013 985014 :variable!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the good ones < 1382768027 958854 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I'm on a team for a CTF competition Detica is running today < 1382768088 385431 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1382768102 726824 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1382768487 317834 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382768605 938996 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382768852 609989 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://twitter.com/grammarware/status/393871325338411009/photo/1 this is dumb but still great, somehow. < 1382768915 956805 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 259 seconds < 1382769079 462994 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1382769266 407780 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fiora: This ECDSA paper introduces ten acronyms on the first page. < 1382769419 194117 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382769686 456540 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382770676 579487 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382770846 93224 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/programs/tpk.i < 1382770963 303545 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE I USE A SLICK TRICK < 1382771011 303797 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T STOP READING YET < 1382771038 603674 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE NOTIFY THE AUTHOR IF YOU'VE BEEN ABLE TO UNDERSTAND ALL OF THIS; BUT PLEASE DON'T SEND EMAIL < 1382772876 161468 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1382773097 939771 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.119 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1382773123 635383 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382773140 7615 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382773571 436509 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382773590 460330 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Excess Flood < 1382773968 474366 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1382774236 946364 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382774490 586874 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382774602 811608 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382774668 499750 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The SRFI process specifies HTML 3.2 < 1382774719 398115 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382775175 588788 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-21-226.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1382775502 846926 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382775840 109377 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1382775970 786817 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382776065 996649 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382776762 626455 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 QUIT :Quit: Uguubee111118 < 1382776861 744391 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-109-193-171-052.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1382776915 918066 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382776961 951539 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1382777095 768185 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382778560 723162 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382778747 424226 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382780420 345335 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382781357 444034 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Koen_ You can pass other types without a prototype. You can't pass a char, a short or a float because the default arugment promotions convert those to an int, an int and a double, respectively, in absence of a prototype. < 1382781357 589582 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382781405 468594 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Koen_ If it's any other type, you can receive it as-is in a function without a prototype. (Of course you need to make sure it is exactly the type the function expects, because no implicit conversions are done.) < 1382781405 614366 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382781437 619276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Koen_ Oh, I didn't notice oerjan's links. Sowwy. < 1382781437 802351 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382781452 617614 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dangers of incomplete logreading. < 1382781647 271810 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I am thinking of going back on http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp < 1382781652 910094 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I am having a dilemma < 1382781668 926374 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want all (functional) operators to be compatible in a pinch < 1382781689 542130 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly by giving them an equivalent lambda version < 1382781718 111146 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if possible I also want to make an equivalence between the numbers and lists < 1382781731 325741 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like 0 being the empty list or NIL, I dunno < 1382781753 966328 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in that case, that equivalent must be the same as the one with the lambda expressions < 1382781773 438744 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :With 0 = ^x^y.y, and so on < 1382781787 55705 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm not sure which construction to pick < 1382781825 564517 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382782728 307022 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1382782786 712700 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382784518 907238 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1382784548 197992 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1382784770 983985 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1382784821 546668 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382785186 704022 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1382785427 818851 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382785510 314531 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-21-226.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1382786481 458207 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382786599 271892 :nooodl__!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382786803 288007 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382787141 990973 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382787959 173351 :Bainos!~Bainos@91.178.69.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382788168 334661 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382788444 358562 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382788507 836190 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382788858 117936 :Chef!~rooms@ip174-64-118-247.ga.at.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382789024 323788 :Chef!~rooms@ip174-64-118-247.ga.at.cox.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1382789738 897047 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/math/comments/1p83at/turing_machine_vs_human_mind/ < 1382789747 947095 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh i'm not really sure how to respond to this < 1382789781 588334 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :downvote and ignore? < 1382789819 567738 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the coward's way out, yes < 1382790146 18057 :Bainos!~Bainos@91.178.69.158 PART :#esoteric < 1382790331 410989 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382790765 332884 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382791406 638669 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1382791672 353360 :asie!~textual@5.172.252.9 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382792561 407123 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :which irc clients do people usually use with mac < 1382792585 203123 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used XChat-aqua and ircII < 1382792810 982034 :nooodl__!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 NICK :nooodl < 1382793271 20772 :asie!~textual@5.172.252.9 QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382793418 116768 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1382793539 313695 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1382793598 849370 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382794028 200232 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-109-193-171-052.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1382794850 767716 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-109-193-171-052.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1382794927 187015 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382795375 952076 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1382795735 792185 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382796251 703387 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1382796257 506441 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382796691 879135 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1382796874 32880 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Ircle was quite popular, if you mean pre-X MacOS. < 1382796896 501439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: As for current, I've heard of both Limechat and Colloquy. < 1382797045 521231 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklofok < 1382797212 41928 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382797214 299271 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :supposing i have an infinite-dimensional vector space V with basis e_i and some T \in V* such that T(e_i) = 1 < 1382797253 992948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a setup for a "your mom" joke. < 1382797292 720278 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1382797306 597460 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :then by linearity T(sum of e_i) = sum of T(e_i), which is an infinite sum of 1s < 1382797319 351906 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is how the fuck does this make sense < 1382797325 231542 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382797376 109353 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't push the T into the infinite sum just with linearity < 1382797440 306502 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check out if the rest of it makes sense < 1382797470 111613 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1382797585 574027 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh there's also the matter if the sum of e_i is even an element of V < 1382797717 991157 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :just since the vector space &c axioms only require closure &c under finite sums (usually stated in terms of binary sums) and as with lots of things it doesn't generalize very nicely to infinities. i'd have to think a bit more if i wanted to say anything useful < 1382797753 851070 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382797886 850581 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382798156 903013 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy, mm, fair point < 1382798182 562538 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :example: if you're dealing with, say, functions N->R with the obvious vector space structure, the set {e_i : e(i) = 1; e(j) = 0 for i \neq j} isn't a basis. that's a basis for the subspace of "finitely supported" functions. and the sum of all the basis elements isn't a member of that space. since linear combinations are finite sums of scalar multiples of vectors. < 1382798254 694614 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :woops i messed up my explanation structure there oh well < 1382798286 117833 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :would've helped if they'd thought to actually mention infinite-dimensional spaces before springing it on us in an assignment < 1382798373 36123 :^v!~DerpHerp@2601:4:4500:887:e963:c52:7bc3:ac6a JOIN :#esoteric < 1382798586 374877 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. < 1382798682 412848 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite dimensional spaces are like finite dimensional spaces except sometimes you need the axiom of choice to find a basis < 1382798703 311364 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to be more careful with the definitions < 1382798733 419482 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you define linear combinations with a sum over a set of indices you run into exactly this problem < 1382799175 743379 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember how my maths class taught matrices before vectors. or any linear algebra. they're just introduced as magic rectangles of numbers, < 1382799483 641259 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I know about matrices is < 1382799490 824231 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you always forget how to multiply them < 1382799772 173380 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt understand matrices until i learned that theyre just a way of representing linear transformations in terms of som bases. then i understood them. i also never really ever had to do much in the way of computations on them so < 1382799834 337897 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: sum of e_i is not an element of the vector space < 1382799854 716322 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although apparently you were answered already < 1382799856 745071 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy: really? < 1382799859 528306 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1382799864 590800 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that's* when you understood them? < 1382799872 225307 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, yeah, same for me < 1382799913 45171 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but note that there's not even a question of whether "sum of e_i" is an element, it doesn't even mean anything a priori < 1382799945 144124 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if all matrices represent linear transformations < 1382799975 800944 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I though't that's only a sub space < 1382799983 230150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yes, i realise this < 1382799996 491603 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, no, all matrices represent linear transformations < 1382800007 896470 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you're thinking of invertible matrices < 1382800074 681809 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would mean that not all linear transformations are reversible? < 1382800077 489578 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or reversable < 1382800090 876976 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e bijective < 1382800145 489952 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparentely nott. < 1382800149 855220 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1382800157 557212 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, consider f(x,y) = x < 1382800166 623039 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382800312 776294 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1382800318 620380 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we're already at match < 1382800321 25911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*math < 1382800353 70277 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does for any proof that gives an example (or counter-example) as a proof < 1382800359 974250 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1382800364 177743 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :exist a formal proof that does not rely on an example? < 1382800454 369498 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. a counter-example shows, that a certain assumption does not hold for all cases < 1382800459 10133 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382800459 941335 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and therefore disproves it) < 1382800483 850656 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382800494 779605 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like the opposite of what people normally try to do < 1382800507 272447 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an example does not describe the exact reason why it does not hold. < 1382800541 610056 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the burden of explanation is on whoever's writing the proof < 1382800543 634968 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does? < 1382800559 252791 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382800566 426986 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does not hold because a counter-example was found, yes < 1382800614 450219 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't mean that you can describe when exactly the assumption does not hold < 1382800668 835988 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you want a way to construct all possible counterexamples < 1382800681 825133 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1382800701 208018 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least an algorithm that can state about any given input if it is a counter example < 1382800728 82513 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or not) < 1382800736 952742 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1382800743 540297 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is roughly the same :) < 1382800773 646837 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :that algorithm consists of "check if the example satisfies whatever predicate you're concerned with" < 1382800788 283097 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what if that's undecidable??????? what then < 1382800788 614710 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. show that sin(x) + sin(f(x)) is not peridioc for all f < 1382800799 425132 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Counter example: sin(x) + sin(sqrt(x)) < 1382800827 131398 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is periodic < 1382800855 210865 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy: Well < 1382800867 892410 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would at least be an answer to if such an algorithm exists for all proofs :) < 1382800870 305758 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the algorithm here consists of "determine whether sin(x) + sin(f(x)) is periodic" < 1382800898 477983 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can prove that this is wrong by giving a counter example < 1382800915 451193 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that does not mean, that I can really prove it for all f < 1382800931 564849 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know is, that it is wrong without knowing WHY it is wrong. < 1382800934 864255 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what you're getting at < 1382800963 327205 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's wrong because there exists f such that sin(x) + sin(f(x)) isn't periodic < 1382800987 698859 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1382800997 944906 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I have no way of telling that for any given f < 1382801025 166175 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a largely orthogonal issue < 1382801034 600620 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have an algorithm which would solve that problem < 1382801064 382191 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1382801068 240192 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1382801086 971042 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it's true for arbitrary f is meaningless as far as the truth of the universally qualified statement is concerned; it suffices to know that it is not true for all f < 1382801110 62580 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom__Hoover: That's true. < 1382801156 486183 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're using intuitionistic logic or whatever you actually need to specify an algorithm anyway < 1382801224 928446 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my opinion is, that a more precise proof would specify the exact properties f must have in order to make the statement wrong < 1382801237 436234 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1382801250 270703 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g as you said < 1382801260 279006 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :an algorithm that produces counter examples. < 1382801276 990761 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're now actually dealing with two different notions < 1382801378 430576 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382801449 545590 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically your notion of a 'precise' proof is extremely limited and doesn't really give much meaningful insight in the relatively few cases where it even exists < 1382801499 687322 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the proof "does it hold for all f" < 1382801511 292427 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's the decision problem "does it hold for this given f" < 1382801526 476132 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a counter example doesn't solve the second one < 1382801555 531282 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i give up her'es the answer < 1382801575 370463 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman, ...right < 1382801575 863924 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382801581 368228 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your actual problem here, then < 1382801587 848296 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No Problem < 1382801591 904150 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just asked a question < 1382801604 670962 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "no". does that help < 1382801615 277681 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does an algorithm that would solve the second example exist if a counter example exists? < 1382801621 77773 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*problem < 1382801622 233047 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1382801625 629254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok < 1382801682 780721 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :mnoqy: Yes. That answers my question :) < 1382801687 453673 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I'm not even sure if all matrices represent linear transformations" they are exactly the linear transformations (in the finite-dimensional case, otherwise i don't know what you mean by matrix) < 1382801720 197941 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mroman> which would mean that not all linear transformations are reversible?" the map where everything goes to 0 is trivially linear < 1382801780 167394 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382801796 869864 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Projection matrices are linear but not always reversible < 1382801811 309323 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e projection from R^n to R^(n-1) < 1382801816 572449 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g. < 1382801915 339090 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know anything about infinite-dimensional stuff anyway < 1382801981 291024 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is about discrete mathematics < 1382801988 118606 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I might propose that they don't exist anyway < 1382802174 460268 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :life sort of sucks if you don't believe in infinite things < 1382802244 244951 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the best math only works if you do < 1382802402 629763 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382802421 288101 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know math that well anyway < 1382802515 153247 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should, it's the best < 1382802525 609370 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmath < 1382802531 200861 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :math < 1382802546 147206 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382802550 195052 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still better than physics < 1382802571 667802 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :physicist < 1382802573 67420 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1382802576 806832 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you call them < 1382802579 899623 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not physician < 1382802587 582939 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that would make sense which english does not < 1382802607 648140 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1382802611 729786 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :physicist was correct. < 1382802663 532748 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate their models < 1382802671 143487 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just don't add up to the real world. < 1382802675 698833 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm too dumb < 1382802678 227292 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't? < 1382802701 384647 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn;t modeling the real world kind of what science is about < 1382802702 386613 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382802703 905254 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do < 1382802713 404017 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're a single mass point < 1382802746 338643 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or your electrical wires are not too close to each other < 1382802751 67940 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you suddenly need new models < 1382802761 230452 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ok < 1382802770 358501 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1382802777 800367 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what it's about, yes < 1382802783 185371 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1382802790 85195 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully their models are good enough to get us ipads and flights to the moon < 1382802790 230691 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't understand even simple models < 1382802793 267428 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like force < 1382802803 391487 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :force there means force there < 1382802809 398197 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda stupid < 1382802811 685056 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1382802814 402405 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382802815 549365 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1382802817 237380 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1382802818 916859 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"force there means force there" < 1382802829 391136 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if theres force a, then there exists its counter-force -a < 1382802858 818552 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :every force has an equal opposite force? < 1382802875 494612 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. are you mad at the world for having this law or the physicists for noticing it? < 1382802893 459015 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1382802897 832235 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it don't make sense to me < 1382802913 606571 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right this was about making sense < 1382802927 103043 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. why those forces don't cancel each other out < 1382802934 254912 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they apply to different things < 1382802944 484183 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're not acting on the same things < 1382802945 218520 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1382802953 335169 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the law is that when a force a is applied to some object, then some other object necessarily gets force -a < 1382802954 662204 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1382802960 704725 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you apply force to something else < 1382802967 11674 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that must have an opposite force too < 1382802988 855535 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1382802994 533689 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. if gas exhaust pushes your spaceship away < 1382803020 623979 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :then your spaceship also pushes the gas exhaust away < 1382803024 146904 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1382803035 226292 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that gas must go somewhere < 1382803035 559974 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that natural and obvious < 1382803039 716291 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and push something else away < 1382803043 920390 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1382803048 404872 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1382803049 716717 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1382803068 840724 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :if gas particles are moving in some direction, there's no "force" involved < 1382803073 375405 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if you were still in the atmosphere < 1382803077 183 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you'd push away air < 1382803081 456983 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except gravity between them) < 1382803092 725646 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you push away air, that air pushes away something else < 1382803097 930694 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everytime you push something away < 1382803104 69938 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :something pushes in the opposite direction < 1382803110 8807 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1382803115 569316 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what about that < 1382803122 456732 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1382803130 550769 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everything pushes everything < 1382803134 531421 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is going on :) < 1382803154 384266 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of pushing < 1382803201 922574 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but everything doesn't push everything at once < 1382803204 193854 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can apply those models < 1382803216 800169 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if a Physicist tells me to use them < 1382803222 393844 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume he knows what he's doing < 1382803231 291319 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :particles move about, and every now and then they get close enough that they bounce off of each other < 1382803240 682485 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just have no idea why the model is < 1382803268 743898 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. why does the third law exist < 1382803270 746694 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hold < 1382803289 495966 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably observation < 1382803305 948004 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the third law < 1382803310 943455 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :action = reaction < 1382803325 533573 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just the simple stuff < 1382803334 865533 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets even weirder for electrical stuff < 1382803378 676099 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is mostly due to it being taught wrong < 1382803391 613876 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: "uhm.. it's like water flowing in pipes" < 1382803393 617597 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :screw that. < 1382803425 597393 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you 5 or why do you find this stuff weird < 1382803442 538494 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1382803447 309905 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1382803450 198180 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just super dumb. < 1382803467 990133 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you not have a corporeal body < 1382803576 39836 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're making some stuff in the oven, and apparently we've been waiting for 30 minutes for nothing because i switched the oven off when i put the stuff in < 1382803588 767874 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember doing it but i'm not sure why < 1382803651 712399 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382803657 688815 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman: it's like water flowing in pipes only until you get to capasitors and stuff < 1382803671 576436 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1382803684 488933 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i checked that word and the wikipedia page gives a water pipe analog. < 1382803798 530759 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydraulic_analogy cool. < 1382803822 646808 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't understand the physical part of stuff < 1382803842 209182 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just the way it is. < 1382803885 240717 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I'm asked to do some fourier shit with wave signals < 1382803887 323018 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that < 1382803922 650438 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I have absolutely no idea what fourier or a wave actually is < 1382803981 372670 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1382804022 510090 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you study physics? < 1382804024 887355 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same for everything that's closely related to physics. < 1382804026 370475 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: no < 1382804034 901739 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382804078 179172 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do know how to model physical systems using differential equations with system dynamics tools < 1382804167 543195 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like simulating behaviours of oscilatting circuits and stuff < 1382804187 534708 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or orbits of n bodies < 1382804230 552913 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and population models < 1382804263 216730 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or planes < 1382804267 349024 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and helicopters < 1382804288 793649 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :given the model you use and the integration method you use is precise enough < 1382804368 837972 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I'm studying applied computer science < 1382804376 886153 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded systems in particular < 1382804414 763364 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1382804438 219783 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you need to know some wire stuff for that < 1382804477 853781 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're getting taught basics of a lot of stuff ;) < 1382804480 197303 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e optics too < 1382804510 227362 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really only the ground basics. < 1382804524 124258 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382804547 199932 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can calculate what *ideal* lense you'd need for your *ideal* eye condition :) < 1382804573 439287 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how big you'd have to draw a circle on the moon in order to see it with your naked eye < 1382804587 956796 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming everything is ideal < 1382804607 489148 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's kinda the point < 1382804638 264815 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there almost certain is light refraction due to the atmosphere < 1382804646 933725 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably even depending on the moon position, temperature etc. < 1382804729 722218 :ion!ion@heh.fi QUIT :Read error: Connection timed out < 1382804774 138713 :ion!ion@heh.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1382804891 398697 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382804932 282521 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe the radius would change by a meter or so < 1382804977 135292 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hence I don't understand why light can't move faster than c < 1382804981 733688 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand the whole thing < 1382805016 254457 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what light is < 1382805034 560948 :impomatic!~chatzilla@87.113.67.177 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382805040 523494 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a wave that moves at c < 1382805061 89951 :mnoqy!~okay@pool-98-108-206-220.snloca.dsl-w.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: hello < 1382805062 458093 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a certain wave length < 1382805075 157412 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again < 1382805089 610088 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do waves with a certain wave length have so different properties than waves with other wavelengths < 1382805098 22084 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though they're both electromagnetic waves? < 1382805166 37706 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do? < 1382805180 397767 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you elaborate? < 1382805186 698300 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382805196 35603 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not using red light to do x-rays < 1382805224 379628 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :atoms/things react different to certain wavelengths < 1382805234 328837 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it differently? < 1382805260 854178 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1382805276 454596 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may not count that as a property of the wave < 1382805282 326442 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a property of a certain material < 1382805287 839331 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not that some wavelengths of light pass through things and some don't, it's that as you make the wavelength longer (or shorter?) it goes through stuff more easily < 1382805317 347557 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just know that longer waves are better for transmission into space < 1382805334 168953 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they penetrate the atmosphere and stuff better < 1382805378 756911 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have no idea how electro-magnetical waves move at all :) < 1382805406 527524 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just do somehow < 1382805439 860234 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably altering some magnetic field < 1382805454 88744 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since waves have an amplitude that amplitude must be something < 1382805495 321995 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone interested in a unix v6 shell account? < 1382805531 626373 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to admit that I don't understand electromagnetism really well < 1382805590 486859 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the whole universe in a big electromagnetic field? < 1382805617 451250 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that if there is no such field, than light could not travel at all? < 1382805622 950022 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*then < 1382805635 822894 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like sound needs something to travel < 1382805641 136459 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382805683 163222 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but you get my point why I have no idea about physics ;) < 1382805737 861361 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think your problem is that you don't get physics, i think you just don't get what getting is < 1382805754 893757 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and also you suck at physics) < 1382805893 392226 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not studying physics < 1382805899 391437 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's pretty obvious @suck < 1382806084 116716 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1382806112 817848 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :my definition of getting is "Can read and understand scientific papers in a particular field" < 1382806145 826630 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@HSI-KBW-109-193-171-052.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1382806164 155614 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds demanding < 1382806170 611629 :oklofok!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get much then i guess < 1382806238 764028 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :( < 1382806242 927425 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much nothing. < 1382806416 585602 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1382807499 930815 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1382807805 198483 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382808079 967340 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382808156 347981 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin NICK :copumpkin < 1382808658 254692 :Cubertango!~mint@81.20.205.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382808685 765253 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1382808720 167548 :Cubertango!~mint@81.20.205.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi every < 1382808892 146115 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 QUIT :Quit: Uguubee111118 < 1382808977 722861 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382809567 711016 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382810680 912806 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, what did you want to day? < 1382810884 282889 :Cubertango!~mint@81.20.205.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beautiful day ^_^ < 1382811101 566890 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382811151 813194 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1382811259 710336 :Cubertango!~mint@81.20.205.170 QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1382812013 866498 :Uguubee111118!~uguubee@101.166.145.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382812336 563069 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382812575 436910 :nys!~YXWX@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1382813219 503946 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh we don't get to find out why :/ < 1382813267 361972 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :too beautiful for irc imo < 1382813287 427461 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrrrrr why do I keep misplacing my VMs and chroots < 1382813319 139892 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was gonna say something along the lines of "Where are you guys, LA is ugly today", because it was the past few days, but holy shit, it's beautiful in Los Angeles. < 1382813324 188956 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to go outside. < 1382813331 687568 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i was wondering how VMX got disabled again but then I remembered I had the motherboard replaced for a repair a few weeks back so it's not even the same machine, woah dude < 1382813342 850222 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :LA can be beautiful < 1382813349 14629 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :where in LA are you? < 1382813394 592411 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I went to LA once when I was very small < 1382813396 596900 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valley. It's been gray for a bit, though < 1382813443 261848 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION lived in Pasadena for four years
< 1382813453 746453 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in california not louisiana < 1382813477 230005 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-108-185-0-32.socal.res.rr.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seeing they might be giants tonight! I'm super exited. < 1382813521 39010 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: hmm, you identify systems by their motherboards? < 1382813538 245483 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the same system if the root filesystem or the os installation is the same < 1382813546 832399 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's more like what I actually do < 1382813552 641576 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1382813554 866874 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's a read-only filesystem and you clone it to two drives < 1382813582 149117 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :... you get two of it? < 1382813620 182586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it the same system or two systems < 1382813645 709052 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes a note to go all Roko's Basilisk on the next machine image which pisses him off
< 1382813654 292735 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, it's seven systems < 1382813659 773007 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And three of them are out to get you < 1382813888 203071 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just drank: a Hexhamian Curiosity Cola. < 1382814291 70563 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit fentimans are based in hexham??? < 1382814427 45692 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hexham < 1382814431 407794 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexham es la ciudad mas importante de programación esotérico < 1382814454 13230 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is this shit < 1382814515 524424 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I used to walk past their office/lab quite often < 1382814524 266660 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few went in, even fewer went out < 1382814546 268692 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used to be really busy, a major employer, but then Mr Fentiman shut the whole thing down. < 1382814550 262842 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cola production stopped. < 1382814565 114636 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, just as mysteriously as it had stopped, it started again. < 1382814581 222410 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1382814754 560044 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then one day, only a few months ago, there was a competition announced. < 1382814812 950852 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 lucky children who find a golden ticket in their Fentimans drink, whether it be shandy, cherrytree cola, cool ginger beer, or pink lemonade, would receive a grand tour of this factory of legend... < 1382814827 67873 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also a lifetime supply of carbonated beverages < 1382814836 159214 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally the nation was in panic < 1382814842 754830 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three children choked on their tickets < 1382814920 466893 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The remaining five went to the factory... < 1382814934 654012 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only four came out again... < 1382814934 799808 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they were changed. < 1382814953 27001 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, pretty literally changed. < 1382814953 172893 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of them was made of ginger < 1382814962 781801 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had 5 arms < 1382815027 762673 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :None have them have said a word about what happened in there < 1382815048 492419 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dear god this got dark fast) < 1382815055 869682 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover help < 1382815072 463099 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the fifth child was elliott < 1382815087 602080 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the dark god iarthal ate the world, the end < 1382815121 332052 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the dark god iarthal exists why do i feel happy. checkmate theists < 1382815152 238637 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, the dark god iarthal got stuck in the Fentimans factory < 1382815202 290106 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps they are different people who they think are other people by mistaken, therefore they never said anything about it because they were never there! < 1382815221 389913 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1382815230 498575 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, an interesting theory < 1382815239 841078 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382815242 142630 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think it has a few flaws in it < 1382815244 7534 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely: < 1382815246 139130 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.21 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1382815278 83844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382815341 959581 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit the dark got iarthal ate him < 1382815375 812819 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dang < 1382815415 193652 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spat him out again as ais523! < 1382815421 550130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you expect it necessary the gods eating anything? < 1382815436 359675 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else are they going to do < 1382815449 378857 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1382815715 145574 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382815747 877911 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't necessarily mean anything is necessary in such case, but it also doesn't mean only necessary things are possible. < 1382815809 949884 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1382815888 501150 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1382815960 995537 :^v!~DerpHerp@2601:4:4500:887:e963:c52:7bc3:ac6a QUIT :Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds < 1382815981 161835 :^v!~DerpHerp@2601:4:4500:887:e963:c52:7bc3:ac6a JOIN :#esoteric < 1382816413 493962 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1382816767 866772 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: http://tab.snarc.org/posts/haskell/2013-10-25-haskell-crypto-platform.html < 1382816776 711873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1382816898 787992 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem? < 1382817086 137089 :epicmonkey!~epicmonke@188.134.41.116 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1382817562 72207 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS1lpKBMkgg < 1382819144 902523 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2603533 < 1382819193 416215 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mathforum.org/kb/thread.jspa?threadID=2603510 this is some good stuff < 1382819507 26813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"first outframe: (nan,0.000000) (nan,nan) (nan,nan) (nan,nan) (nan,nan) [..] (nan,nan) (nan,nan) (nan,0.000000)" < 1382819514 885434 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The best frame.) < 1382819564 128292 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nananananananananananana outframe < 1382819876 720842 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to blame emscripten, since it works just fine when compiled with the (same) clang. < 1382819884 430764 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :As native code, I mean. < 1382819939 93353 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :different optimization settings? < 1382819950 407102 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't be. < 1382819976 368766 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose the "emcc" wrapper does anything special with -Dfoo=bar's (like drops them off)? < 1382820066 746925 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell boily it's called Undecimber, and no < 1382820066 892157 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382820093 186711 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not seem to be doing that. < 1382820496 102002 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1382821023 693020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom___Hoover: did you get a satisfactory explanation for your vector space question < 1382821034 400420 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector space question? < 1382821038 204781 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1382821051 701388 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, then i don't have to repeat it :P < 1382821062 664747 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow rude < 1382821072 33703 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: we have logs < 1382821076 432816 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure if you're a coward < 1382821083 912936 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is where i am reading it in the first place. < 1382821119 831496 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: i wasn't going to mention that one. < 1382821151 743425 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that wasn't a direct Phantom___Hoover quote < 1382821182 478499 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, -s USE_TYPED_ARRAYS=0 seems to make it work. (If slowly.) < 1382821251 319160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And -s USE_TYPED_ARRAYS=1 also works. But USE_TYPED_ARRAYS=2 ends up with all those nans. < 1382821401 105038 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!unicode MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING < 1382821546 266644 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode MAN IN BUSINESS SUIT LEVITATING < 1382821548 391980 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1382821573 303226 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that one < 1382821578 972940 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should upgrade HackEgo to Unicode 7 < 1382821592 384287 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you saying it exists. < 1382821621 373937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the fault of the japanese. < 1382821631 78411 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it was added really recently < 1382821644 613091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the most amusing of the new codepoints < 1382821648 112195 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone put everything from wingdings in a new unicode block < 1382821699 971484 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+1F595 REVERSED HAND WITH MIDDLE FINGER EXTENDED < 1382821774 42851 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders that theoretically it takes only one cell phone manufacturer with a mean streak to create enough new characters to break unicode.
< 1382821799 661233 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd have to work a bit on it, but still. < 1382821859 354138 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether that would break unicode's size limit or their policy of including everything actually used, is a different matter. < 1382821887 569380 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode begins the arduous and controversial 'chat unificcation' < 1382821965 531321 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode 7 isn't out < 1382822000 149585 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think the human effort to draw all the glyphs that are free would be too big < 1382822059 929383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus the world is saved by laziness again < 1382822105 99535 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many codepoints are free? < 1382822150 356315 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably something like approximately 14 planes? < 1382822190 541391 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe more, everything else than BMP might still be quite sparse. < 1382822199 390568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less than 17 planes, anyway. < 1382822220 871409 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :each plane is 2^16 codepoints, right? < 1382822225 496252 :Onliner13!~onliner91@81.20.205.170 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382822243 104313 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :They gave away the last one for private use, unless I misremember. < 1382822248 303312 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1382822252 1657 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`WeLcOmE Onliner13 < 1382822254 798825 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :OnLiNeR13: wElCoMe tO ThE InTeRnAtIoNaL HuB FoR EsOtErIc pRoGrAmMiNg lAnGuAgE DeSiGn aNd dEpLoYmEnT! fOr mOrE InFoRmAtIoN, cHeCk oUt oUr wIkI: hTtP://EsOlAnGs.oRg/wIkI/MaIn_pAgE. (FoR ThE OtHeR KiNd oF EsOtErIcA, tRy #EsOtErIc oN IrC.DaL.NeT.) < 1382822315 56857 :Onliner13!~onliner91@81.20.205.170 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi all :) < 1382822335 690293 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1382822358 33464 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you please pick a more sensible welcome message next time :) < 1382822374 709908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is one of the _most_ sensible ones. < 1382822383 290455 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm[4]: Compiling LegalizeFloatTypes.cpp for Release+Asserts build < 1382822383 435851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1382822398 679917 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder, if you had everyone on earth draw one glyph, what kind of duplications you'd get (if anY!) < 1382822402 612568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only picked it because i haven't seen it in a while. < 1382822402 760314 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :legalize float types, regulate and tax them for revenue < 1382822415 508961 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: is that a drug joke? < 1382822418 944341 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1382822443 284301 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1382822461 673645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: an unsurprising number of boobs and penises, i suspect < 1382822499 273714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*a large but < 1382822560 37572 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :a large butt. < 1382822566 441145 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too. < 1382822573 646800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode PENIS < 1382822575 628395 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1382822580 236865 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shocking < 1382822597 518661 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose that name is too simple. < 1382822679 154926 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz... < 1382823029 298905 :Onliner13!~onliner91@81.20.205.170 QUIT :Quit: Onliner13 < 1382823086 300904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : my opinion is, that a more precise proof would specify the exact properties f must have in order to make the statement wrong <-- problem is, that the description of such f can be a _lot_ messier than finding a single one. possibly even uncomputable. < 1382823172 898705 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you could hope for instead is an intuition why there would be _many_ counterexamples. < 1382823217 257431 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. -0.389 is a curious result for a*a + b*b, where both a and b are real numbers. < 1382823229 477182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it is. < 1382823243 636901 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: emscripten uses JS floats to represent ints by default I think < 1382823247 645097 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's what you're talking about < 1382823258 381241 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: how would it end up negative though? < 1382823270 27426 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :because floats are weird? I don't know < 1382823289 192600 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers in question were also floats. (Well, doubles.) < 1382823402 760951 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman my opinion is, that a more precise proof would specify the exact properties f must have in order to make the statement wrong <-- problem is, that the description of such f can be a _lot_ messier than finding a single one. possibly even uncomputable. < 1382823402 946405 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382823417 913094 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell mroman what you could hope for instead is an intuition why there would be _many_ counterexamples. < 1382823418 69486 :lambdabot!lambdabot@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:9fdd PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1382823425 434235 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1382823505 360203 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1382823625 787939 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the numbers are less than zero as seen from the C code, so I guess I just do something wrong in the interface. < 1382823650 34546 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm reading the wrong "pointer". < 1382823712 112831 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Fun fact: emscripten pointers are also just js numbers containing indices into its HEAP (or IHEAP/FHEAP for USE_TYPED_ARRAYS=1, or I8HEAP/U8HEAP/etc. for USE_TYPED_ARRAYS=2) array.) < 1382823987 917106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : I assume that if there is no such field, than light could not travel at all? <-- did he just reinvent the aether. < 1382824004 799728 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1382824036 545087 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i admit i have no idea how EM works though. < 1382824085 477695 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect if you go all the way to the quantum field theory stuff, no one does. < 1382825032 901601 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382825093 881695 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:e2cb:4eff:feb2:e567 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382825326 428157 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382825681 959241 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: irc2go < 1382825906 244729 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382825921 577413 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:e2cb:4eff:feb2:e567 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382825979 879162 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:e2cb:4eff:feb2:e567 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382826047 933056 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems OriginalOldMan has made a Pancake Stack interpreter. < 1382826102 103812 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is OriginalOldMan's name on the IRC channel? < 1382826233 870525 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone is on this IRC channel < 1382826264 753655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've seen him as OriginalOldMan here < 1382826269 802395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen OriginalOldMan < 1382826273 508159 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen OriginalOldMan ever < 1382826279 769505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1382826309 827156 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen OriginalOldMan ever < 1382826311 511996 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen OriginalOldMan ever < 1382826313 717834 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-09-20 22:55:28: Hehe < 1382826314 448124 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-09-20 22:55:28: Hehe < 1382826326 798976 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A month ago, huh. < 1382826345 570563 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe < 1382826352 539811 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen JWinslow23 ever < 1382826355 449897 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-10-26 22:25:52: `seen JWinslow23 ever < 1382826371 412264 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-10-26 22:25:52: `seen JWinslow23 ever < 1382826376 920083 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny. < 1382826383 34644 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you were expecting < 1382826435 209301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine Anyone remember this one | rev < 1382826438 239485 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver | eno siht rebmemer enoynA eniuq nur` < 1382826478 172461 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1382826483 556684 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine eight hundred forty three armless and legless corpses floated inconspiculously through | rainwords < 1382826486 57768 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :hvidiecat < 1382826487 20302 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08`run 09quine 02eight 13hundred 06forty 04three 07armless 08and 09legless 02corpses 13floated 06inconspiculously 04through 07| 08rainwords < 1382826506 698441 :hvidiecat!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1382826515 896782 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine eight hundred forty three armless and legless corpses floated inconspiculously through < 1382826518 853199 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`run quine eight hundred forty three armless and legless corpses floated inconspiculously through < 1382826523 645775 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine < 1382826526 60098 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine < 1382826617 756789 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine "LIVE ON REVILED" | rev < 1382826620 424383 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine "LIVE ON REVILED" | rev < 1382826639 3534 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine "LIVE ON REVILED" | rev < 1382826641 577153 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: idea: `quine experiments with the program you pipe it to to figure out how to reverse it >:) < 1382826642 36491 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver | "DELIVER NO EVIL" eniuq nur` < 1382826662 852749 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: YOU GO RIGHT AHEAD IMPLEMENTING THAT < 1382826714 790752 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine "ABLE WAS I" | rev < 1382826717 583986 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver | "I SAW ELBA" eniuq nur` < 1382826759 375872 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: idea: reimplement `run to see if `quine would run, if so, it just repeats the original line < 1382826768 331090 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hardly seems as fun. < 1382826943 138383 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine "A R E W E N O T D R A W N O N W A R D T O N E W E R A" | rev < 1382826946 149903 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver | "A R E W E N O T D R A W N O N W A R D T O N E W E R A" eniuq nur` < 1382826946 554328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does `quine get at the original command line, anyway? the logs? < 1382826967 977013 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine test1 < 1382826969 469646 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine test2 < 1382826970 573981 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine test2 < 1382826971 705817 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine test2 < 1382826974 308127 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the logs < 1382827008 997747 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run quine "Straw? No, too stupid a fad; I put soot on warts." | rev < 1382827011 977744 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :ver | ".straw no toos tup I ;daf a diputs oot ,oN ?wartS" eniuq nur` < 1382827013 637500 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you could also just output to stderr < 1382827023 932052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: evil :) < 1382827028 639262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do that < 1382827031 5349 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quine < 1382827032 313381 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | sed 's/[^>]*> //' | grep '^`' | tail -1 #Best cheating quine ever? < 1382827032 459096 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo mandate that all shell programs are total, then you can compute an inverse < 1382827058 788984 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: total isn't the word you're looking for there < 1382827060 564303 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :const "" is total < 1382827074 814863 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would make it more boring though < 1382827080 973188 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. < 1382827082 974129 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine YOU'RE STUPID < 1382827083 212073 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827083 859168 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and break if you added 2>&1 anyway < 1382827085 262644 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827085 587103 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827087 19935 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking is overrated. < 1382827092 507763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed --in-place -e's/1 #/1 1>&2 #' bin/quine < 1382827094 38784 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed: -e expression #1, char 14: unterminated `s' command < 1382827097 340421 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, whoops < 1382827101 449102 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed --in-place -e's/1 #/1 1>&2 #/' bin/quine < 1382827105 580346 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1382827113 488104 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine YOU'RE STUPID < 1382827113 796347 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827114 181224 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827114 483152 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827114 852055 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827115 210724 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827115 640810 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827116 271035 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827119 111833 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey JWinslow23 < 1382827120 95436 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827120 291223 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827120 539024 :JWinslow23!411e34fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.30.52.254 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quine NO, YOU'RE STUPID! < 1382827120 684757 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :ais523 > 1382827120 891373 NAMES :#esoteric < 1382827121 183186 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827121 183231 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't fucking do that < 1382827121 183276 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827122 2074 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827122 424322 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827123 232517 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827123 631405 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827123 780475 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827125 12727 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827125 188841 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 KICK #esoteric JWinslow23 :stop spamming < 1382827125 334430 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/hackenv/bin/quine: 2: cannot create 1: Read-only file system < 1382827132 358535 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 MODE #esoteric -o :ais523 > 1382827132 381294 NAMES :#esoteric < 1382827142 212147 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1382827143 948924 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the second time he has been kicked for spamming... < 1382827146 396768 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1382827146 967670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/quine < 1382827148 356733 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ cd /var/irclogs/_esoteric; cat $(ls ????-??-??.txt | tail -1) | sed 's/[^>]*> //' | grep '^`' | tail -1 #Best cheating quine ever? < 1382827153 516617 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get what's hard to understand < 1382827158 948693 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I messed up the 1>&2, forgot to escape the & < 1382827162 848148 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave it like the original < 1382827171 943159 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry for not doing that faster, the commands take some time to type < 1382827177 889455 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :q < 1382827180 606212 :ChanServ!ChanServ@services. MODE #esoteric +o :elliott > 1382827180 619168 NAMES :#esoteric < 1382827180 950670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, the kicking the spammer that is < 1382827182 610351 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/kick foo < 1382827183 529004 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott MODE #esoteric -o :elliott > 1382827183 551655 NAMES :#esoteric < 1382827195 532043 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed to type the reason too :( < 1382827195 799834 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you people use chanserv < 1382827197 903873 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have /msg chanserv op # muscle-memoried because of #haskell < 1382827200 654076 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you needed to escape the / < 1382827205 715952 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :worst dictators ever imo < 1382827209 252856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: oh, I was cheating with /cs < 1382827228 751307 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never bothered to set up a /cs alias < 1382827242 621590 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly a "/csk" alias to do the whole thing. For advanced cheaters only. < 1382827253 379740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: I didn't, either < 1382827261 329737 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Konversation sends unknown slash-commands onto the server < 1382827266 48511 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Freenode implements a nonstandard CS command < 1382827267 152036 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, I should just make kickban commands auto-op, but I don't want to write the script or install an existing one to do it < 1382827289 808798 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this server doesn't have /cs kick like esper does < 1382827299 895440 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to have to do that much opping that a shortcut is useful < 1382827307 828435 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm amused that JWinslow23 didn't rejoin < 1382827320 352106 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflecting on his actions no doubt < 1382827320 591556 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally people would in that situation < 1382827394 47466 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: There's a "chanserv quiet", though. < 1382827441 359859 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an alias for /^msg chanserv op #esoteric , you might be able to guess what it's called. < 1382827452 727143 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the ^ for < 1382827468 838507 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent opening a stupid query window < 1382827469 68732 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it called "/evildictatormode"? < 1382827475 547032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nope < 1382827487 440807 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: /hackegoquine? < 1382827494 501800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, no. < 1382827498 651936 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it must be called /opsoteric, whimsically. < 1382827524 300328 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you people are just not pun thinking enough. < 1382827566 636997 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oprjan < 1382827620 342216 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.176.135.78 JOIN :#esoteric < 1382827620 526600 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1382827668 987803 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1382827690 23578 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, I get it. it's /sigh right < 1382827717 293153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats coppro -----###
< 1382827726 629852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no it's not /swat either) < 1382827743 902011 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I presume /swat is for swatting < 1382827760 625714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually have an alias for that. < 1382827839 306449 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual swatting? how old school < 1382827853 805901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the swatter needs precision handling, olsner < 1382827976 773950 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382828842 249562 :nys!~YXWX@blk-142-60-139.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1382828908 840515 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: the idea of using skew binary in data structures is p. nifty imo < 1382829022 477343 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382829049 757822 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1382829113 58208 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1382829115 24660 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1382829397 341426 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1382829502 216755 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like there ought to be a better way of representing skew numbers < 1382829542 471009 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. (Bool, [Bit]) (with the Bool representing whether the least-significant 1 is actually a 2) < 1382829548 108723 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some special handling for 0 or something < 1382829560 798843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that might be a red herring because you can have skew n-ary < 1382830353 206682 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1382831432 640866 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/bGaH -- wonder if I should report that as an Emscripten issue. (Actually puzzling it out sounds a bit too much like work.) < 1382831668 843639 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:e2cb:4eff:feb2:e567 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1382831704 6548 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Quit: Koen_ < 1382831798 688853 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should some computer game include one item is a sign that says "Oak: Now is not the time to use that!" written on it? < 1382831858 983860 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1382831876 569001 :Phantom___Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds