00:00:38 contrapumpkin 00:00:45 Or perhaps just ntrapumpkin 00:01:36 oerjan: I think bignums would be easier if you don't use any fyte beginning with 1. You'd just do stuff in base 376 or whatever. 00:04:30 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:05:21 Argh! PDFs that are only viewable online :-( No way to download. 00:05:24 Here: http://issuu.com/adpware/docs/mc069/MC069.pdf 00:06:02 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 00:08:42 -!- Taneb has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 00:08:59 -!- Taneb has joined. 00:09:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:11:44 Hmm 00:12:09 I'm not sure how Rel forms a category 00:12:50 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:12:51 With relation composition. 00:12:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Changing host). 00:12:56 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:13:28 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:13:33 I like how they call the category where the objects are sets and the arrows are relations Rel, but for some reason the category where the objects are sets and the arrows are functions is called Set. 00:14:06 Oooh 00:14:19 shachaf, would you rather they called it Fun? 00:14:28 is there any actual reason for category names to be truncated to three characters. 00:14:29 That name would be more fun. 00:14:49 Bike, because mathematical notation is traditionally terse? 00:14:49 better than the one character the rest of math uses, i guess 00:14:49 Bike: yes, there's a deep categorical reason but you just don't know enough to understand it 00:15:12 aw :( 00:16:09 i don't either :'( 00:16:14 Also, do any of you have a particularly compelling reason I should not read "Categories, Types and Structures: An Introduction to Category Theory for the Working Computer Scientist" by Andrea Asperti and Giuseppe Longo 00:16:40 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:16:48 i seriously don't get why people complain about this, mathematical variable names are symbolic shorthands 00:16:53 CTaSaItCTftWCS is kind of a shitty initialism? 00:17:09 Phantom__Hoover: same reason i complain about one letter variable names in a program? 00:17:31 Taneb: why that book 00:17:37 writing out full words makes expressions significantly harder to read 00:17:43 shachaf, because it had a nice blue cover 00:17:51 Bike, it's almost like they're different fields with different needs or something 00:18:17 sounds like you haven't been paying attention to the univalent revoluuuuuution 00:21:01 i suspect you just made that up 00:21:12 no some other people made it up 00:21:16 Bike is just playing along 00:24:06 Taneb: did you purchase it or something 00:24:44 shachaf, no, I took it out from the library 00:24:45 * oerjan has this extremely vague memory of going to seminars mentioning univalent functions. 00:26:31 and quasiconformal mappings. 00:26:41 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:32:25 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:32:37 It is kind of interesting how variables in math usually have short names and variables in programming usually have long names. 00:33:12 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 00:33:19 It's explained by some degree, I think, by the fact that mathematical expressions are almost always embedded in prose, whereas programming statements usually are not. 00:35:11 There are exceptions, of course. "(a -> b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c" is probably easier to read than "(sharedArgumentType -> intermediateResultType -> finalResultType) -> (sharedArgumentType -> intermediateResultType) -> sharedArgumentType -> finalResultType". 00:35:12 also when you do math with your hand and a pen you want the variable names to be as short as possible 00:35:37 and you want "xy" to mean "x times y" or something, not "one identifier named with two letters" 00:35:51 whereas when you program you want people to understand what you're doing 00:36:08 * Taneb --> bed 00:36:11 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:36:27 I also think lambda-calculus uses a lot more short variable names than imperative programming 00:36:42 which might be a consequence of variables being bounds or free etc. 00:36:58 that is, you know what a variable stands for because you know where it was defined 00:37:41 when you write int(f(x)dx) you don't need anyone to explain to you what x stands for, because it's bound to the integral 00:38:09 whereas in imperative programming if your program starts with "int x;" it's kinda hard to know what it is 00:39:10 nice "int" pun 00:39:22 UNINTENDED 00:41:31 UNINDENTED 00:41:59 balls 00:42:08 NINTENDUD 00:42:24 Oh no, dropped an E. 00:48:18 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:51:23 yeah, short arbitrary names are good when they are so general that nothing concrete can apply 00:51:45 and a lot of the intro Haskell stuff is like that 00:51:50 -!- tswett_ has quit (Quit: Page closed). 00:52:08 which probably sets up an unreasonable bias towards short names 00:53:20 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:05:21 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]). 01:35:41 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:41:01 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:41:37 -!- augur has joined. 01:42:14 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 01:46:25 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:51:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 02:08:14 -!- ^v has joined. 02:10:57 * Sgeo suddenly wants to try Microsoft Bob 02:11:33 I think I used software that used a Bob-like interface 02:11:38 Greeting Workshop 02:11:40 I miss it 02:12:18 http://www.danielsays.com/daniel-says-images/dlcc/microsoft-bob/bob-lives/bob-in-ms-greetings-workshop-10.gif 02:12:22 http://www.danielsays.com/ms-bob-16-bob-lives.html 02:13:46 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 02:14:52 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:15:16 -!- ^v has joined. 02:18:20 -!- augur has joined. 02:21:30 I used Bob!!! 02:21:31 bitd 02:24:36 we had... hm, not Microsoft Plus!, but some other thing 02:25:32 i guess it was just one of the things you get with a Gateway 2000 computer 02:25:40 I also borrowed a bunch of these from the library: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_games_from_The_Magic_School_Bus 02:36:46 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 02:38:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:46:39 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 02:54:40 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111119). 02:59:46 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 03:29:20 Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them 03:29:26 I used them a bit from Visual Basic 03:30:11 `addquote Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them 03:30:15 1125) Sgeo: oh yeah those animated characters were built into the operating system and there was an API for them 03:30:18 this is so Windows it hurts 03:30:35 Microsoft Agent is how I got into Creatures 03:31:01 (I was interested in 'agent', stumbled upon some site that collected... stuff that just happened to use the word, and C3/DS uses the term 'agent') 03:31:15 and ofc it makes Wine harder to write because now it has to provide animated paperclip APIs, just in case 03:31:37 Also, there was some chat program where you'd chat via Microsoft Agent. You'd download people's friends list to chat with them 03:31:55 I would send a command that put the agents to sleep, which stopped them from talking 03:31:58 Kind of trollish really 03:33:18 well I mean "operating system" here in a sense that maps to "Debian" or "GNOME" and not like "Linux kernel" 03:33:31 probably it's a DLL and that DLL might work unmodified in WINE 03:33:50 kmc: Windows devs use the term "kernel" to include many of the important libraries too 03:33:58 Sgeo: wow that's even weirder than Comic Chat 03:34:00 at least the libc equivalents 03:35:55 I FOUND IT 03:35:56 I think 03:35:57 http://thecyberbuddy.com/ 03:36:04 The FAQ certainly sounds like the chat system I remember 03:36:12 http://thecyberbuddy.com/Page7.html#QQ19 03:36:31 ais523\unfoog: That's courtesy of a pair of legacy issues. 03:36:43 First, kernel.dll was the closest to the kernel on Win16 there was. 03:36:49 I think I was banned from one of the main chatbots on there 03:36:51 A long time ago 03:36:58 Second, kernel32.dll is the only documented kernel entry point. 03:37:40 i will not be your "cyber buddy" 03:38:08 i will. ;) 03:38:18 i like how late 90s / early 00s Microsoft just did not give a fuck about using the correct names for anything 03:38:29 or actually implementing the standards they claimed to implement, etc 03:38:31 Bike: hot 03:40:20 @ask mnoqy i think this calls for a self portrait of Sgeo 03:40:21 Consider it noted. 03:40:26 pikhq: pretty much everything in Windows is somehow caused by legacy issues 03:40:35 except the frequent changes to their recommendations for UI toolkits 03:40:40 which are mostly just inexplicable 03:45:31 kmc: should i see Carrie (musical) this weekend 03:46:38 don't know anything about that 03:48:06 isn't that what i pay you for :'( 03:49:12 is it 03:49:24 http://wereverinmylaptop.tumblr.com/post/56728391141/snakes-guido-mocafico 03:49:25 snakes 03:50:54 are you a snake 03:51:22 don't think so 03:56:43 hard to know for sure 03:57:02 listen to snake hisses and check if you're turned on 03:57:08 of course, you may just be an asexual snake 03:57:14 or i could be a human with a snake fetish 03:57:17 that doesn't work in our furry age 03:57:23 more like scaly 03:57:26 webscale? 03:57:32 i'm not saying there aren't false positives or negatives here!! 03:57:33 spider / snake slash fiction 03:57:44 Bike: please rephrase in terms of "Type I" and "Type II" errors 03:57:58 that terminology is no better 03:58:09 webscale porn, sounds darnmyinnerdictionaryturnedoffagai 03:58:10 n 03:58:53 are off-by-one errors type I or type II 03:59:08 kmc: you were kind of snaky last time i saw 03:59:19 o 03:59:37 you had things snakes have like eyes and a tongue 03:59:39 'COMBINING SNAKE BELOW' (U+1DC2) what 03:59:41 what else do snakes have 03:59:56 `unicode 'COMBINING SNAKE BELOW' 03:59:58 Unknown character. 03:59:59 k᷂m᷂c᷂ 04:00:09 i may have already forgotten how this program works :( 04:00:32 Bike: rule (1): if you want _any_ kind of quoting, use `run. 04:00:33 did you know chrome has an ed emulation mode 04:00:40 type a command in the address bar and press ^E 04:00:44 `run python -c 'print u"hi\u1dc2".encode("utf-8")' 04:00:46 hi᷂ 04:00:53 very hi 04:00:56 so snake 04:00:58 wow 04:01:29 `run unicode 'COMBINING SNAKE BELOW' 04:01:30 ​᷂ 04:01:33 cool this program from 1987 is called "PATH" so i will never find it, ever 04:01:49 `man 1 rule 04:01:51 man: can't open the manpath configuration file /etc/manpath.config 04:02:03 I'm not sure what I expected 04:02:08 but that is more sensible than what I expected 04:02:36 this is silly 04:02:42 i have two cell phones next to each other 04:02:50 one of them vibrated, which turned the screen on in the other one 04:02:56 hot 04:03:18 I'm saddened by the sudden realisation that cellphone slash fiction almost certainly already exists :( 04:03:20 shachaf: Please go on. I’m interested to hear about the whole Rube Goldberg device. 04:03:48 ion: insert coin 04:04:59 ion: did you learn any exciting category things since last time 04:05:00 forbidden love between an iphone and an htc one 04:05:59 forbidden love is allowed in here 04:07:28 good to know 04:07:39 kmc: ok do you think Distributive and Representable should both exist "hard to decide" 04:07:50 shachaf: Not yet. I haven’t been very productive for a while. 04:08:20 class Distributive g where distribute :: Functor f => f (g a) -> g (f a) 04:08:30 cool, this chaos paper uses the unit bits/week 04:09:20 er, Functor g => Distributive g 04:09:24 IO String -> [IO Char] 04:09:53 class Distributive g => g where type Key g :: *; to :: (Key g -> a) -> g a; from :: g a -> Key g -> a 04:10:12 er, Distributive g => Representable g 04:10:46 Representable is for a functor G where G a ~~ T -> a for some T 04:11:00 e.g. Pair a ~~ Bool -> a 04:11:23 Distributive ends up having instances for all the same types but it has less power 04:11:28 so does it deserve to exist 04:11:46 i gotta know 04:11:55 Are there useful Distributive instances without useful Representable instances? 04:12:22 is there a kind-level Representable instance between Distributive and Representable 04:12:56 Bike: is that supposed to make sense or should i just stop trying to figure it out 04:13:14 ion: I think every type which is an instance of Distributive is also an instance of Representable. 04:13:34 Doesn’t sound like a too useful separation then. 04:13:46 I'm not sure. 04:14:05 Does it give you less power in a useful way? If you make a function which is generic over Distributive or something? 04:17:01 If there’s a combined instance, can you not still write that function? 04:19:01 copumpkin: is this you a billion years in the future?? http://mathoverflow.net/users/342/sixwingedseraph 04:19:16 ion: Combined instance? 04:20:02 Like Applicative combines Apply and Pointed? Or what would the alternative have been? 04:20:23 I'm not sure what you mean. 04:20:30 Me neither. 04:21:44 From what i understood, you pointed out two classes with a dependency between them and said every instance of either one is an instance of another. So i thought you were thinking of combining the classes. 04:22:20 Oh. Yes. Combining them into Representable. 04:22:41 Since you can write Distributive easily with to and from. 04:29:39 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 253 seconds). 04:46:00 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111119). 04:49:02 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 04:53:24 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:07:00 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 05:10:26 -!- Bike has joined. 05:11:04 " writing out full words makes expressions significantly harder to read" but category names are not used in expressions much 05:11:26 that's probably why they are truncated _so little_ 05:11:49 but still truncated? 05:14:48 " It is kind of interesting how variables in math usually have short names and variables in programming usually have long names." <<< i've always figured this is because you need so many names in programming, while in math you often need just a few vectors. the things that are nonstandard but you need to remember for the whole of the article are usually definitions 05:14:55 and definitions are often just an english word 05:15:12 "We call such a sequence \emph{asstastic}." 05:15:38 hi oklofok 05:16:04 what was that question about homotopy or something 05:16:09 i don't remember 05:17:42 asstastic prime 05:19:22 shachaf: um i don't recall there being a question 05:19:36 i don't know why i said "vectors" 05:20:31 «The noun ‘Pegasus’ itself could then be treated as derivative, and identified after all with a description: ‘the thing that is-Pegasus’, ‘the thing that pegasizes’.» 05:21:42 i personally find one symbol variables annoying, because they are so annoying to look up when you don't remember what they mean (sometimes you basically have to start over). 05:22:03 a longer word you could just search for 05:22:43 if i had a working symbol search that could separate mathmode from textmode, i don't think there would be any problem 05:22:44 i guess that ties into the whole 'predates computers' thing. 05:25:47 lol some guy from the czech republic solved my geocaching mystery (which is in finnish) 05:27:31 nice 05:31:24 oklofok: relatedly, there's the rule in programming that a variable's name length should be proportional to its scope 05:34:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:36:57 and that's why JavaBeanFactoryVisitorFactory is global 05:37:37 now I want more universal scope variables 05:37:41 like in Network Headache 05:38:10 (CLC-INTERCAL's implementation of something similar is more interesting; each process has its own set of variables, but you can steal variables from other processes) 05:38:23 (stealing filehandles is a particularly nice simple way to set up a simple telnet-a-like) 05:38:46 kmc: i think that would be a good rule for math too 05:38:50 also for everything 05:39:17 trees would have magnificent names 05:39:54 we can rename "Cyprinodon salinus salinus" to "i jy" 05:40:04 what about for people 05:41:09 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:41:28 you get a long name when you're born, and a letter drops each year 05:41:38 when you run out of name, you are murdered. 05:41:41 lol. 05:42:11 I thought it'd be based on scope 05:42:15 actually, it is to some extent 05:42:23 close family and the like refer to you with shorter names 05:42:25 what's the scope of a man 05:42:39 and you can use shorter nicks in smaller communities 05:42:56 counterpoint, i am known by all and sundry as "bike" 05:43:05 that's another way to think about it, but it's not what i'd consider the direct analog of scope 05:43:07 countercounterpoint, i don't know what 'sundry' means 05:43:41 says something intelligent about minimum description length 05:43:45 oklofok: well, the scope of a variable is the region of the program from which it's accessible/mentionable/nameable 05:43:45 but there are some languages/cultures where more familiar names are diminutives with extra letters 05:44:02 "Consisting of a haphazard assortment of different kinds; miscellaneous." what a weird word 05:44:31 so I guess the scope of a person is either the number of people who have heard of them, the number of people who can describe them, or the number of people who could reasonably expect to be able to just look up their number, phone them up, and talk to them 05:45:45 i think a kid's voice is described as "sundry" in south park in the episode where cartman wants to become the... something of the school in place of wendy 05:46:28 and i didn't know what it means back then, and i just always remember that episode when i hear it, but not the actual meaning 05:46:41 maybe i've always heard wrong 05:46:49 but yeah they ruined my life 05:46:50 i've only seen it in the dead phrase 'various and sundry'. 05:47:32 which is apparently a hella pleonasm 05:47:38 i seemed to recall you're from the us, and tried to whois you 05:47:43 but i accidentally joined you. 05:47:50 ##bike used to exist 05:47:57 somebody joined it to ask about bikes once 05:48:03 :D 05:48:12 makes sense i guess 05:48:17 i of course do not endorse ##bike, as indicated by the name 05:48:21 i've been on #unicycling so why not 05:48:33 (i have a unicycle) 05:48:39 i am a unicycle 05:48:42 i tried to link them to a channel about biking but i couldn't find one. 05:48:52 sundried raisins 05:48:59 yeah 05:49:12 sundry sundried raisins 05:49:17 kind of niche compared to php i guess 05:49:32 wait you were already talking about that word 05:49:39 what a waste 05:49:54 okay gtg byes 05:50:08 kmc: 22:11 http://www.jwz.org/images/lzamexm.gif -- mri of a banana. That's trippy. 05:51:04 now i can never eat bananas again. 05:51:06 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 05:51:18 great, i don't remember if bananas are fruits or what. 05:51:41 i mean, have you seen a banana tree? that shit is weird. 05:51:54 22:47 nwf: banana flower, not banana fruit 05:52:00 Bike: p. sure bananas don't grow on trees 05:52:11 of course they're not fruits, why would fruit wear pajamas 05:52:22 i have seen many banana trees in my time 05:52:33 oerjan: sounds pretty fruity to me 05:52:37 they grow on things that are like trees but not but also are because 'tree' isn't a real category anyway 05:52:59 have a music http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnai_KrK4Ko 05:53:04 well they don't have a trunk 05:53:11 which is the main requirement to be a tree 05:53:16 for example elephants and cars are trees 05:53:22 yeah 05:53:25 but not banana plants 05:53:36 anyway mainly i was wondering if the banana had xylem and shit in it. 05:54:45 shachaf: omg 05:55:06 help 05:55:09 MRI of a sharkbanana 05:56:22 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 05:56:54 `welcome Uguubee111119 05:56:56 Uguubee111119: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:57:44 `run sed -i 's#http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page##' wisdom/welcome 05:57:48 No output. 05:58:29 `relcome Uguubee111119 05:58:32 ​Uguubee111119: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 05:58:44 http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-e3MjWHdNTkE/UlKV0MgMDEI/AAAAAAAABiQ/Z7CxO0-Q3dE/s1600/Charleysayswww-scarfolk-blogspot-com.jpg some good stuff on jwz today 05:59:50 http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dq27_3O7T38/UkgoTj0YEfI/AAAAAAAABh0/3i25ms1TQrU/s1600/porn3www-scarfolk-blogspot-com.jpg long lost educational porn films 06:31:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 06:48:38 -!- augur has joined. 06:48:49 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111119). 06:49:04 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 06:49:13 -!- augur has joined. 06:51:06 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 07:02:29 also i lost 07:03:40 lost sharkbananas? 07:04:58 lost enthusiasm? 07:06:44 no- 07:07:05 @google what did kmc lose 07:07:09 http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/kolkata/kmc-set-to-lose-crores-on-puja-ad-tax/article1-1131980.aspx 07:07:09 Title: KMC set to lose crores on Puja ad tax - Hindustan Times 07:10:16 -!- asie has joined. 07:10:31 you know what's a weird looking function? the half iterate of sine. 07:10:55 What's that? 07:11:04 what about the half iteratee 07:11:05 the function f such that f.f = sine. 07:11:43 Oh. 07:12:15 well, i guess the weird part is mostly that as you keep taking half iterates it looks more and more like a triangle wave. 07:13:00 Can you generalize this to real numbers? 07:14:19 yeah. here, there's an exact solution for an easier one. the t-th iterate of \x -> x/(1-x) is just \x -> x/(1-x*t). 07:18:34 :t (*) 07:18:35 Ambiguous occurrence `*' 07:18:35 It could refer to either `L.*', 07:18:35 defined at /home/lambdabot/.lambdabot/State/L.hs:149:4 07:18:43 > 4 * 5 07:18:44 Ambiguous occurrence `*' 07:18:44 It could refer to either `L.*', defined at L.hs:1... 07:18:48 cool 07:18:50 -!- ais523\unfoog has quit. 07:20:22 Bike what did you do 07:20:28 > 4 L.* 5 07:20:32 *Exception: L.hs:150:1-11: Non-exhaustive patterns in function * 07:20:35 Bike...... 07:20:43 i didn't do it, honest! 07:21:00 i did " @let boring t x = x/(1-x*t)" in privmsg and it said the ambiguous occurence thing. 07:22:10 wow, i was going to try to mess with it but like... 07:22:12 > boring 1 10 07:22:16 -1.1111111111111112 07:22:19 > boring 1/2 10 07:22:20 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> a -> a)) 07:22:20 aris... 07:22:23 thambdabot?? 07:23:11 @undefine 07:23:12 Undefined. 07:23:13 hth 07:23:38 rip :( 07:24:06 rip L.* 07:24:20 > 4 * 5 07:24:22 20 07:24:30 wait, so i did that somehow? 07:24:33 what happen. 07:25:43 ...does "boring 1/2 10" parse as "(boring 1)/(2 10)"? or something? 07:25:53 > (*) 1/2 10 07:25:55 Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (GHC.Integer.Type.Integer -> a -> a)) 07:25:55 aris... 07:26:01 > (*) (1/2) 10 07:26:02 5.0 07:28:13 Yes. 07:28:28 Function application is sticker than any operator. 07:32:17 stickier 07:33:49 so how'd the L.* thing happen. 07:35:39 Someone did @let x * y = ...? 07:35:46 00:20 :t (L.*) 07:35:46 00:20 (Eq a, Eq a1, Num a, Num a1, Num a2) => a -> a1 -> a2 07:36:06 Sounds like some 2*2=5 prank or something. 07:37:11 go and tell the king that the sky is falling in but it's not 08:24:07 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:35:09 -!- carado has joined. 08:38:28 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:39:07 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 08:46:56 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:47:35 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 08:47:36 -!- sebbu has joined. 08:50:43 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:50:47 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:50:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:20 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:24 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:51:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:52:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:52:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:52:39 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:13 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:18 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:54 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:53:59 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:54:40 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:54:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:54:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:55:23 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:55:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:55:27 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:56:01 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:56:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:56:05 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:56:57 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:57:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:57:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:57:34 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:57:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:57:38 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:58:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:58:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:58:25 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:58:58 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:58:59 -!- glogbot has joined. 08:59:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:59:02 -!- esowiki has joined. 08:59:09 -!- ais523_ has joined. 08:59:33 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523_\unfoog. 09:09:54 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:10:42 -!- Koen_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:10:56 -!- Koen_ has joined. 09:11:16 http://sprunge.us/VGTK that's just ridiculous. 09:15:39 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 09:26:22 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:29:11 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 09:29:35 -!- ais523_\unfoog has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 09:31:46 -!- ais523_\unfoog has joined. 09:53:15 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 09:56:14 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 09:59:25 -!- ais523_\unfoog has quit. 10:05:16 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:05:18 Is a butt Turingcomplete 10:11:35 -!- asie has joined. 10:20:01 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:23:04 -!- atslash has joined. 10:28:27 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 10:42:52 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 10:43:55 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 10:46:24 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:49:49 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 10:59:19 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:03:17 -!- ski_ has changed nick to ski. 11:03:34 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:29:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 11:33:00 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 11:40:36 -!- shikhin__ has joined. 11:41:01 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 11:42:28 -!- shikhin_ has joined. 11:42:57 -!- shikhin_ has changed nick to shikhin. 11:43:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 11:45:34 -!- shikhin__ has quit (Ping timeout: 273 seconds). 11:46:14 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:04:37 -!- boily has joined. 12:08:38 -!- metasepia has joined. 12:09:53 -!- yorick has joined. 12:15:40 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 12:17:35 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:38:51 good étuve morning! 12:39:33 wisdom question: since when are we angle-quoting the URL to the Main Page in the welcomes? 12:40:03 `relcome nooodl 12:40:07 ​nooodl: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 12:40:19 huh 12:40:46 shachaf: why did you anglify the URL? 12:41:20 Anglifying URLs.. does that make shachaf an angler? 12:42:07 angler, as in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lophius_piscatorius? 12:50:59 boily: I assume because some clients/terminals/etc. otherwise interpret the trailing '.' as part of the URL. 12:51:42 logical. 12:52:53 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page%2E works for me 12:56:01 I guess that's a workaround. 12:58:38 well what i'm saying is the extra . doesn't seem to matter either way 13:00:43 welcome to #esoteric, where everything is off-topic and the points don't matter! 13:02:14 the points are... pointless 13:07:10 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 13:07:32 -!- asie has joined. 13:13:03 -!- carado has joined. 13:30:57 -!- Uguubee111119 has quit (Quit: Uguubee111119). 13:33:23 -!- Uguubee111119 has joined. 13:36:00 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 13:44:48 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 13:48:03 `unidecode ÐĐ 13:48:05 ​[U+00D0 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER ETH] [U+0110 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER D WITH STROKE] 13:48:19 Are we still doing this? :P 13:48:39 `unicode MULTIOCULAR O 13:48:41 Unknown character. 13:48:46 we're always doing this. 13:48:56 `unicode CYRILLIC LETTER MULTIOCULAR O 13:48:57 ​ꙮ 13:49:37 mrhmouse: I was wikiwalking, and they mentioned capital eth and stroken-d being very similar. I had to verify their claim. 13:49:51 (you know, when you really have to know a useless fact.) 13:51:11 I can relate. 14:05:34 -!- nisstyre has joined. 14:26:19 I've just installed the SainT Atari ST emulator. It even simulates the noise of the disk drive! 14:32:04 -!- conehead has joined. 14:43:09 -!- atslash has quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep). 14:54:21 quinthellopia! 14:54:33 quintopia: you may receive the cookies today and/or Monday. 14:59:13 (meanwhile Up North, it's raining sideways.) 15:22:13 -!- smilerext has joined. 15:22:17 -!- smilerext has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:40:52 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 15:51:45 -!- asie has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz...). 15:56:45 -!- tertu has joined. 16:02:06 -!- ^v has joined. 16:03:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:04:37 -!- carado has quit (Read error: No route to host). 16:05:08 -!- carado has joined. 16:06:21 -!- asie has joined. 16:08:24 -!- ter2 has joined. 16:09:28 -!- tertu3 has joined. 16:10:01 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:13:26 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:19:27 It's raining man... 16:20:21 and I might have a heart attack 16:25:55 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:29:36 :t (*) 16:29:38 Num a => a -> a -> a 16:30:43 you know what's a weird looking function? the half iterate of sine. <-- i am not sure that half iterates are particularly uniquely defined. 16:31:09 when they exist at all. 16:31:53 i suppose having a continuous one at all is an accomplishment, which a triangle wave certainly is. 16:34:53 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:36:18 -!- augur has joined. 16:36:49 :t let 2*2=5 in (*) 16:36:50 (Eq a, Eq a1, Num a, Num a1, Num a2) => a -> a1 -> a2 16:37:14 shachaf: perfect type match! 16:43:23 I have seen * be redefined locally to be some arbitrary operator 16:43:35 (meanwhile Up North, it's raining sideways.) <-- have you checked that the landscape hasn't just tilted? 16:43:54 FreeFull: completely legal 16:44:17 Yeah 16:44:31 Just a bit weird to see * not be multiplication 16:44:33 @src on 16:44:33 (*) `on` f = \x y -> f x * f y 16:44:42 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:44:57 I think this is where I saw it 16:46:12 @ask boily (meanwhile Up North, it's raining sideways.) <-- have you checked that the landscape hasn't just tilted? 16:46:12 Consider it noted. 16:50:55 oerjan: in general they're not. half-iterates of identity are a pretty good example 16:51:08 -!- tertu3 has joined. 16:52:49 oerjan: strong gusts around 40 kt. 16:52:57 > [sin x | x <- [-1,-0.8 .. 1::Float]] 16:52:59 [-0.84147096,-0.7173561,-0.5646425,-0.38941836,-0.19866937,-5.9604645e-8,0.... 16:53:22 > [sin x | x <- [-0.2,0 .. 1::Float]] 16:53:23 too good for map, huh 16:53:23 [-0.19866933,0.0,0.19866933,0.38941833,0.5646425,0.71735615,0.8414711] 16:53:25 hu 16:53:32 > [0..1::Float] 16:53:33 [0.0,1.0] 16:53:44 it doesn't always go well. 16:53:46 > [0.5 .. 1::Float] 16:53:48 [0.5,1.5] 16:53:51 hm :( 16:53:53 i suppose having a constantly shrinking range might force things? 16:53:55 ~eval map sin [-1,-0.8..1 :: Float] 16:53:55 > [0..0.1..1.0] 16:53:56 [-0.84147096,-0.7173561,-0.5646425,-0.38941836,-0.19866937,-5.9604645e-8,0.19866925,0.38941827,0.56464237,0.717356,0.8414709] 16:53:57 :1:8: parse error on input `..' 16:54:01 ugh. 16:54:05 > [0,0.1..1.0] 16:54:06 > [0.1,0.5 .. 1::Float] 16:54:06 [0.0,0.1,0.2,0.30000000000000004,0.4000000000000001,0.5000000000000001,0.60... 16:54:07 [0.1,0.5,0.9] 16:54:09 I wonder if people would get mad if the powers that be just removed Enum from floats? 16:54:25 > succ (1:: Float) 16:54:27 2.0 16:54:30 ha 16:54:43 oerjan: strong gusts around 40 kt. <-- kilotons? are you sure this is normal wind? 16:54:48 I wonder if that would involve fixing more code than, say, the Num/Eq/Ord change that happened before, or the Functor/Applicative/Monad change that will happen? 16:54:57 the powers that be achieved enough positive karma by constraining Monads to Applicatives, so I feel they can do whatever they want with Enums. 16:55:08 ion: ↑ 16:55:32 boily: That would also be positive karma as far as i’m concerned. 16:55:43 ion: indeed. 16:55:45 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:56:00 I wonder if people would get mad if the powers that be just removed 16:56:06 oerjan: apparently kn is the preferable abbreviation to “knots”, but kt is accepted. 16:56:08 argh 16:56:17 boily: ic 16:56:18 (insofar knots are socially correct.) 16:56:33 boily: depends, are you at sea? 16:56:33 kt is kilotonne. :-P 16:56:46 kt is what killed the dinosaurs. 16:57:06 kt is a telecom in South Korea. 16:58:26 I wonder if people would get mad if the powers that be just removed Enum from floats? <-- well it _might_ be nice if they actually supported the standard(s) backwards compatibly as written, which they already don't do and are planning to do even less. 16:59:22 Microsoft started using kt instead of kB in Finnish (because byte is “tavu” – the Finnish grammar doesn’t let allow doing that, though, it would need to be “kt.” to be grammatically correct because it’s an abbreviation and not an official unit symbol) and the whole IT media followed. 16:59:59 Also, kt is already a SI derived unit symbol. 17:00:20 um tonne isn't official is it? 17:01:24 Bike: thus the kt boundary? 17:01:25 I actually don’t know for sure, but it’s a hell of a lot more “official” than kilotavu. 17:01:52 oerjan: “It is a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI.” 17:02:07 -!- tertu3 has joined. 17:02:19 `relcome tertu3 17:02:20 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 268 seconds). 17:02:22 ​tertu3: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 17:02:26 boily: was just about to paste that 17:04:27 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:05:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:06:14 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:07:38 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:09:30 -!- Bike has joined. 17:10:02 Bike: maybe you can tell me whether naturality and continuity are related somehow 17:10:34 naturality sounds like some kind of hippie food brand. 17:11:43 continuity doesn't, so probably they're totally unrelated. 17:12:11 continuity could totally be "some kind of hippie food brand" imo 17:12:16 continuity is like the opposite, they want you to keep buying the old poisonous food 17:12:50 oerjan: well "KT" just stands for "Cretaceous-Tertiary". presumably German is involved here. 17:14:31 i'm sure we discussed that not many weeks ago. 17:14:54 does 'we' include me 17:14:57 also discovered it's now officially changed to cretaceous-paleogene. 17:15:04 Bike: that i don't know. 17:15:23 paleogene also sounds like hippie food. category theorists, get on this. 17:16:52 well they cannot change it to c now that it is paleogene. 17:17:44 wp says K-Pg 17:18:43 * oerjan thinks he should drop the next pun he's thinking of. 17:20:51 -!- pong has joined. 17:21:05 I fail to understand the link between hippie brands and categories. 17:21:15 -!- pong has changed nick to Guest90179. 17:21:43 boily: it's a natural transformation 17:21:55 -!- ^v has quit (Disconnected by services). 17:21:57 -!- Guest90179 has changed nick to ^v. 17:22:58 * boily facepalms... “hook, line, sinker...” 17:26:35 -!- derpherp has joined. 17:27:04 `seen mnoqy 17:27:08 2013-10-29 00:06:06: i don't think i'd be able to explain it though 17:28:42 `seen HackEgo 17:28:47 2013-11-01 17:27:08: 2013-10-29 00:06:06: i don't think i'd be able to explain it though 17:28:49 `seen HackEgo 17:28:53 2013-11-01 17:28:47: 2013-11-01 17:27:08: 2013-10-29 00:06:06: i don't think i'd be able to explain it though 17:29:06 `seen HackEgo 17:29:11 2013-11-01 17:28:53: 2013-11-01 17:28:47: 2013-11-01 17:27:08: 2013-10-29 00:06:06: i don't think i'd be able to explain it though 17:29:30 I need to find a way to include django in that... 17:30:15 well, that's easy. 17:30:18 `quote django 17:30:20 265) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 311) `quote django ​352) django is named a 17:30:25 `seen HackEgo 17:30:29 2013-11-01 17:30:20: 265) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 311) `quote django ​ 17:30:32 `seen HackEgo 17:30:34 etc. 17:30:36 2013-11-01 17:30:29: 2013-11-01 17:30:20: 265) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something \ 310) `quote django ​352) django is named after a person? thought it would be a giraffe or something thankfully only one \ 311) sadly, it doesn't make for a good quote :( 17:31:28 most things don't 17:33:22 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:33:55 -!- derpherp has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 17:33:57 -!- augur has joined. 17:38:57 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:40:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:40:35 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 17:44:33 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 17:49:59 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:50:00 -!- metasepia has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:50:05 -!- boily has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:50:32 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 17:50:45 -!- boily has joined. 17:51:45 -!- metasepia has joined. 17:52:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:58:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 17:59:28 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:00:53 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 18:01:08 -!- Bike has joined. 18:03:20 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:04:03 -!- lmt has joined. 18:04:48 xD 18:07:06 /\\\\//\\\\\\///\\\\/\\\\\\\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\///\\//\\\\/\\//\\/\\//////\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\//\\//\\\\/\\//\\\\\\///\\\\//\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\\\\\///\\\\/\\\\\\\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\///\\//\\\\/\\//\\/\\//////\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\//\\//\\\\/\\//\\\\\\///\\\\//\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\\\\\///\\\\/\\\\\\\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\//\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\///\\//\\\\/\\//\\/\\//////\\/\\\\\\/\\\\\\//\\//\\\\/\\//\\\\\\///\\\\//\\//\\/\\/\\\\//\\\ 18:07:58 //\\\\//\\\\\\? 18:08:33 -!- augur has joined. 18:08:42 boily: // \ \\/ \\/ // 18:09:50 lmt: /. 18:10:04 \\?? 18:10:26 * lmt \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\ 18:12:06 * boily ////es lmt with a \\//\//\\\ 18:12:22 * lmt \\\\\\\ 18:12:28 :\ 18:15:39 it only was a small \\//\//\\\. it won't leave no bruise (well, after a week at least) 18:17:26 I wasn't interested at all in the conversation until that comment. 18:18:07 vice versa for me 18:18:11 i lost all interest 18:20:00 -!- JesseH has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:20:51 Are we making labyrinths on the C64 again? 18:23:43 -!- tertu3 has joined. 18:26:11 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 18:26:35 -!- ^v has joined. 18:30:01 -!- atslash has joined. 18:30:21 -!- tertu3 has changed nick to tertu. 18:31:13 -!- shikhin has changed nick to hikhin. 18:32:17 -!- hikhin has changed nick to shikhin. 18:33:57 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 18:36:57 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:39:42 -!- shikhin has changed nick to hvidhin. 18:40:29 -!- hvidhin has changed nick to kickhin. 18:46:17 -!- kickhin has changed nick to shikhin. 18:47:15 FreeFull: like http://10print.org/ ? 18:47:30 "labyrinth" is a much cooler word than "maze", it's true 18:48:17 This book takes a single line of code—the extremely concise BASIC program for the Commodore 64 inscribed in the title 18:48:20 wow 18:48:28 these guys clearly haven't heard of golfscript 18:49:54 ah 50MB PDF? 18:49:57 are you serious 18:50:05 that almost certainly will crash adobe pdf reader 18:50:17 you've never seen a pdf that big before? 18:50:23 i mean, it's shit, but not uncommon. 18:52:14 aren't there alternatives to the Adobe on Windows? 18:54:05 pdf.js! 18:54:47 i guess it's not actually that much shorter in golfscript? 18:55:11 my naive approach is 1{2 rand"/""\\"if.print}do 18:55:11 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 18:55:23 -1 18:56:31 not much of a maze without branches 18:57:26 tromp_: the characters themselves form a branched maze though 18:57:41 if you print them nicely like on 10print.org 19:04:31 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:08:31 seriously though 19:08:42 can someone tell me the right golfscript program to do that? 19:09:01 i'm missing something with golfscript's conversion between strings and integers 19:18:04 golfscript looks strangely J-like... 19:19:28 kmc: More accurate than maze too for this 19:19:37 Since you don't get any branching paths 19:19:53 You don't get dead-ends either 19:21:23 -!- Bike has joined. 19:27:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: Poulet!). 19:28:01 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:42:57 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: Ping timeout: 1337 seconds). 19:44:27 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 19:47:04 -!- Bike has joined. 19:47:41 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:51:10 Has anyone here got access to the McCarthy files at Stanford? 19:55:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:58:04 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:58:37 -!- augur has joined. 20:02:27 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:03:05 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:06:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:12:12 golfscript is J on speed 20:13:41 J on E 20:13:56 which reminds me to continue working on my Mahou project 20:15:12 Why is there no webprogramming language 20:15:14 I mean 20:15:21 It would be about time for one 20:15:26 what? 20:15:30 webprogramming? 20:15:34 yeah 20:15:39 websites'n'stuff 20:15:43 You mean like JavaScript, or am I missing something? 20:15:48 Or like to generate HTML? 20:15:51 server side 20:15:58 You can do JavaScript server side. 20:16:55 I'm looking for a language really made for that purpose 20:16:57 no like PHP 20:17:01 *not like PHP 20:17:09 PHP is merely a C-Api embedded in Apache 20:17:10 You're talking about generating pages? 20:17:14 Yes 20:17:17 and Database 20:17:25 something like haskell's route 20:17:27 JavaScript is a good candidate, actually >> 20:17:28 Oh 20:17:29 Haha. 20:17:30 url dispatching 20:17:31 Templates 20:17:34 and stuff 20:17:47 JavaScript still winning here. 20:17:53 Or Elm, for view code. 20:17:58 If you like Haskell. 20:18:16 i'm confused, you are just looking for a server side web language in general? cause uh a lot of those exist 20:18:27 what is the context of "Why is there no webprogramming language" 20:18:29 Yeah, there are tons.. 20:18:38 every major language has a web framework or six 20:18:46 I don't want a web framework 20:18:47 Python has like two dozen 20:18:51 Web frameworks do exists 20:18:53 in dozens 20:19:13 So.. you want a language that does nothing but web? 20:19:35 ideally some kind of language with very neat modelling support 20:20:08 what would be the point of that? the things you need to do to build websites fit well into most general purpose languages 20:20:57 they fit well 20:21:00 but not perfectly neat 20:21:02 As I'm understanding it, you want: view generation (templates), data storage and access, URL routing, and "neat modelling support" (whatever that is)...? 20:21:19 mroman: that should be fixed with better libraries rather than fundamentally new languages 20:21:22 imo 20:21:26 but also, there are web specific languages e.g. http://opalang.org/ 20:21:26 ^ 20:21:47 Django is really close to what I'd expect 20:21:51 Interesting link kmc! 20:22:02 it essentially generates the whole database etc from python classes 20:22:07 which is pretty neat 20:22:27 So you want a code-first approach - plenty of frameworks offer that :P 20:23:37 well 20:23:37 Really, it sounds like you can get what you want by combining several existing libraries.. 20:23:43 I actually want modell first :) 20:24:01 python 20:24:04 pythonpython 20:24:06 pythonpythonpython 20:24:07 pythonpythonpythonpython 20:24:37 I don't want to write
  • {{foo.title}} etc 20:24:40 say python again, say python again, i dare you, i double dare you motherfucker, say python one more goddamn time 20:24:42 that's already too low-level 20:25:18 esentially 20:25:23 oh no you didn't 20:25:28 I want a WYSIWYG editor to create Websitse 20:25:30 just say "too low-level" in #esoteric 20:25:37 webshits 20:25:54 webscheiße 20:25:58 ++ 20:26:05 fun fact: the swedish word for python means disgusting 20:26:07 or a lanugage that suitable is close enough to wysiwy 20:26:16 (and a kind of snake) 20:26:18 what you see is what you 20:26:22 well 20:26:26 y brain just has shutten down 20:26:35 all you touch and all you see is all your life will ever be 20:26:41 -!- augur has joined. 20:26:43 and strangely my shoulder still hurts when I breathe 20:26:58 try breathing with your lungs instead 20:27:04 wise guy. 20:27:07 :D 20:27:11 :D D: 20:27:18 or try not breathing, if it hurts it must be bad for you 20:27:42 YEah... 20:27:55 I'm gonna go back to watching some Jason Bourne Movie 20:28:37 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:28:38 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:29:11 mroman: How's li a href: foo.d, foo.title 20:29:35 or if you write a helper method, just listAnchorFor foo 20:35:18 mroman: you're right that there are improvements to be made in HTML template languages 20:35:24 and those languages can be embedded within programming languages 20:35:36 but there's no reason the encompassing programming language needs to be redesigned from scratch 20:35:48 e.g. Yesod has some fancy template languages for HTML and CSS and JS, but it's embedded within Haskell 20:35:55 html embedded in javascript embedded in javascript 20:36:07