00:00:18 i cannot quite be bothered to check whether there were any in that quote, though. 00:01:03 @brain are you pondering what ørjan is pondering? 00:01:03 It must be inordinately taxing to be such a boob. 00:01:13 sigh, it must be the ø 00:01:16 @brain are you pondering what oerjan is pondering? 00:01:16 What can I do for fun, Pinky? That's it! I'll send several 00:01:16 bills to Senate for ratification, then veto them all! 00:01:25 * oerjan swats lambdabot -----### 00:01:27 @brain did someone break @brain? 00:01:27 Are you pondering what I'm pondering? 00:01:35 @brain where are the pinky quotes? 00:01:35 Promise me something, Pinky. Never breed. 00:01:40 @pinky 00:01:40 Well, I think so, but Kevin Costner with an English accent? 00:01:43 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:01:46 ...Ah. 00:01:49 @list brain 00:01:49 quote provides: quote remember forget ghc fortune yow arr yarr keal b52s pinky brain palomer girl19 v yhjulwwiefzojcbxybbruweejw protontorpedo nixon farber 00:01:54 shachaf: um does it actually pay any attention to the part after @brain 00:02:02 oerjan: Not that I know of. 00:02:09 Who split up Pinky and the Brain? 00:03:38 @tell gregor You should fix the formatted log style not to squeeze consecutive spaces. for quote accuracy, you see. 00:03:39 Consider it noted. 00:05:31 shachaf: the separatists 00:07:31 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:09:05 oerjan: i'm a separatist myself but i haven't heard of that 00:09:10 it must be a different faction 00:09:53 -!- Bike has joined. 00:13:29 this reminds me a bit of the first graf on http://www.mit.edu/~mitsfs/related-groups.html <-- which graf, and also why didn't they add another I for the nice anagram. 00:14:46 nice anagram? 00:15:31 of mitsfs + i 00:16:11 preferably second last 00:16:18 because they fit in just fine at MIT 00:16:42 how weird. 00:18:28 my old alma mater wasn't the only one to dodge a bullet here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUST 00:23:50 but people pronounce it "mits fiss" or so 00:23:56 so I don't think the connection is un-noticed 00:24:10 that's like http://www.reddit.com/r/MarijuanaEnthusiasts <-- XD 00:24:31 talk about inside joke 00:25:35 -!- augur has joined. 00:26:03 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 00:26:36 -!- augur_ has joined. 00:27:20 beep 00:28:03 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:28:56 boop 00:29:03 does anyone know of any contests or challenges where a particular language has its syntax "funged" so as to be unrecognizable, with the task of recovering the language by poking at programs? 00:30:21 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:45:03 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:52:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 00:52:34 -!- Lymia has quit (Changing host). 00:52:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 01:00:57 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Read error: No route to host). 01:09:30 beep boop 01:09:52 another awesomely named MIT club is MITBEEF 01:09:54 the beef club 01:10:12 beep boop 01:10:17 they got passes to some huge meat convention that was going on in boston 01:10:19 pretty sweet 01:10:31 we had a Meat Club which was slightly less focused (I think they served snail at one point) 01:10:42 Caltech also had a Hazing Club 01:10:44 opt-in of course 01:11:31 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:13:37 -!- jarpal has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:14:27 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:16:54 kmc: http://www.theonion.com/articles/freedom-takes-a-hit,33699/ 01:17:15 -!- augur has joined. 01:21:28 -!- augur_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:22:10 heh 01:22:17 i wonder if the kmc #drugz thing is getting old 01:22:21 not sure 01:22:26 and i have done nothing but encourage it so far 01:23:54 kmc: what should i look for! 01:24:22 re: "does anyone know of any contests or challenges where a particular language has its syntax "funged" so as to be unrecognizable, with the task of recovering the language by poking at programs?" 01:24:33 kmc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beefsteak_Club The Sublime Society of Beef Steaks 01:24:42 BEEF AND LIBERTY 01:27:35 lexande: nice 01:28:05 augur: uh, one of the io.smashthestack.org challenges involves reverse engineering a compiled, obfuscated binary of an interpreter for a stack machine 01:28:12 in order to then write programs for that machine 01:28:24 that doesn't quite sound like what you mean though 01:28:35 kmc: do you know of any methodologies for such reverse engineering tasks? 01:28:48 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:29:17 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:30:59 i don't know much about the general practice of RE, no 01:31:20 i mean "look at the code and figure out what it does" 01:31:23 not very satisfying 01:31:52 there are tools that will find basic blocks, build control flow graphs, express them as pseudo-C, let you assign names to variables as you figure them out, etc 01:32:22 https://hex-rays.com/products/ida/index.shtml is the gold standard of RE tools; http://www.hopperapp.com/ is getting a lot of good press lately 01:32:37 http://radare.org also looks quite cool 01:32:41 i haven't used any of them 01:33:00 those things usually depend on knowledge of the code structure tho 01:33:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:33:06 oh i did use the freeware version of IDA for DOS to reverse engineer a late 20th century French-Canadian apothecary sign 01:33:16 but the code was not obfuscated at all 01:33:26 imagine instead if you found a language where all the tokens were permuted with random things 01:33:47 so that it looked like line noise 01:34:01 how would you figure out what a program in such a language did? 01:34:28 that's kind of a cryptanalysis problem 01:34:36 not quite 01:34:57 cryptanalysis doesnt let you probe the program however you want 01:35:18 you get a blackbox compiler/interpreter, and some example programs 01:35:47 infact, as many example programs as you want, lets say a billion just for fun 01:36:12 and you can run them, or maybe search through them by the effects they have, described broadly 01:36:25 and you can edit and run programs too 01:36:38 how would you figure out what was going on? 01:37:27 pretty much been my experience with matlab 01:37:32 :) 01:37:43 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:38:03 it's been fascinating how much good i can do for a program i don't understand a damned thing about 01:41:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:52:51 haha bike 02:00:24 -!- nisstyre has joined. 02:22:19 Would it be odd to go to StackOverflow to ask a question then answer it immediately? 02:22:38 Couldn't find the answer to a question I had about IE, determined the answer experimentally 02:28:47 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 02:37:29 -!- Taneb has joined. 02:38:15 aaaah oh god I'm going to be playing D&D 02:39:18 don't give in to satan 02:39:53 Oh, he won't. 02:40:01 Helel on the other hand? 02:42:34 -!- Lymia has joined. 02:49:14 Sgeo: Please do that 02:49:20 It's totally kosher 02:51:06 prooftechnique: context? 02:51:11 Taneb: ++ 02:51:19 [21:22:19] Sgeo: Would it be odd to go to StackOverflow to ask a question then answer it immediately? 02:51:20 [21:22:38] Sgeo: Couldn't find the answer to a question I had about IE, determined the answer experimentally 02:51:28 oh yeah, its totally fine 02:51:31 they even encourage it 02:54:34 I'm... going to be playing D&D with a pacifist character 02:55:17 if you beat the first mission of Deus Ex without killing anyone you get an achievement but also your fellow cybernetically enhanced super-soldiers will make fun of you for being a wuss 02:58:51 You'll also be woefully ill-equipped for the outsourced boss fights 02:59:36 Taneb: Tell them to use the Book of Exalted Deeds rules 03:09:58 Also, today I found out that vegans can eat bread 03:10:18 Taneb: why wouldn't they? 03:10:37 quintopia, I was getting the recipe mixed up with cake 03:10:45 I thought bread had milk and eggs 03:11:04 weirdo 03:15:16 i think zzo38 plays his character with minimal violence, i am not sure if he's entirely pacifist or not. 03:21:07 whoa who is Oj742. 03:24:27 some bread has eggs i think 03:24:29 and some cake doesn't 03:24:50 vegans can eat fungi even though they're closer to animals than to plants 03:25:20 which is good because bread is mostly made using fungi 03:26:28 except for salt rising bread, which is made using a bacterium from the same genus as tetanus and gas gangrene and botulism 03:26:44 #terrifyingbreadfacts 03:28:08 Sounds delicious 03:29:07 what about bread using baking soda leavening 03:29:24 and what about flatbread 03:33:32 flatbread, fair enough 03:33:38 can you bake bread with only baking soda and no yeast? 03:33:45 i thought it was used as an additional component 03:33:46 but I dunn 03:33:47 o 03:33:49 I'm no baker 03:34:03 Lightbeam is pretty cool 03:34:20 yeah 03:34:35 flatbread is not vegetarian. it is made from flatfish flour (nn:kveitemjøl, from nn:kveite, halibut) 03:36:44 mmm 03:37:24 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:52:23 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:07:56 !bfjoust space_hotel http://sprunge.us/aNPE 04:08:08 Score for quintopia_space_hotel: 51.9 04:08:33 SLIGHT IMPROVEMENT 04:11:22 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 04:15:13 -!- drlemon has joined. 04:24:29 -!- nisstyre has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:33:55 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 04:34:51 So, there are now two questions that I really should get around to asking and answering on SO 04:48:51 when i'm on my SO, i'm not usually thinking about asking and answering questions 04:49:42 ^ 04:50:24 passwo 04:50:31 lo 04:50:32 l 04:50:52 oklolplol 04:50:53 (was trying to see if someone linked the password file i've been hearing so much about here) 04:51:04 i did a while ago 04:51:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 04:51:29 (but ctrl+f often just pops up the find box but doesn't make it focused) 04:51:29 Bike: the one that's like the world's greatest crossword puzzle according to xkcd? 04:51:36 yeah. 04:52:45 Bike: you showed some top100 thing? 04:53:00 probably 04:54:21 "30. 28132 Ttgs5+ZAZM7ioxG6CatHBw== princess" 04:54:37 how 04:54:45 what/ 04:55:00 that was a question mark 04:55:15 i don't understand how random words get on these lists 04:55:48 maybe i just want the password recovery thing to call me a princess. since no one ELSE does 05:01:16 i have a friend who does some sort of computer security research and uses a short unary password almost everywhere, and happily tells people what it is 05:01:41 8. 113884 7LqYzKVeq8I= 111111 05:04:12 so is it research in how to be secure even if everyone knows your password? 05:04:34 -!- nisstyre has joined. 05:07:14 maybe he should've used 666666 05:08:12 i'ma get a lightbeam. dunno what to expect from it...i don't browse much 05:17:30 " papers on arxiv have links and cites highlighted in different colors a lot" <<< this will not surprise anyone, but anyway: this is because you send the tex and they compile it that way 05:19:31 (as opposed to there being an arxiv style that has that which you can use, say) 05:20:07 come to think of it, i guess they could just add those to pdfs too 05:20:43 if you send them a pdf that's generated from tex source, they notice it and tell you to submit the tex instead 05:29:21 haha, of course 05:35:34 -!- Yonkie_ has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 05:36:51 -!- Lymia has joined. 06:01:14 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:14:06 "@windyoona @0xabad1dea fun story: Lego bricks form a free trace monoid just like the one from process calculus! They model parallelism!" 06:14:12 hmmmmmm 06:15:29 not the other way around? 06:16:31 * kmc reads about trace monoids 06:17:07 i mean generally if it's a math thing versus something that actually happens i'm going to guess it's the former that's the "model" 06:21:11 -!- v^ has joined. 06:21:50 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:21:55 did someone say trace monoids 06:21:59 i love monoids 06:24:47 i did 06:25:02 btw both of the mentioned people are great and you should follow them if you do the twitter thing 06:25:25 i don't do the twitter thing but i have a file of people i would follow if i did follow people 06:25:31 so i'll add them to the file 06:25:58 v. effective 06:26:19 my file now contains 43 people 06:26:37 way too many to open tabs for each one every day and look at what's new 06:27:03 maybe i can set up an rss client to fetch each of their feeds 06:27:25 kmc: you should teach me about trace monoids 06:27:30 what's this "natural homomorphism" business 06:29:58 i don't know about them :( 06:30:47 :'( 06:30:48 hmm 06:35:35 wikipedia does tho 06:38:27 i'm not sure what wikipedia means but maybe i'll read the whole article 06:40:58 -!- ^v has joined. 06:43:02 -!- v^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:51:07 kmc: why is it called "trace" 06:54:29 i don't know 06:54:37 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 06:55:44 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 07:01:02 -!- tertu has joined. 07:01:52 -!- ter2 has joined. 07:02:10 -!- tertu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:14 -!- ter2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:02:31 -!- ter2 has joined. 07:24:03 -!- ter2 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:24:51 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:32:06 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:33:22 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 07:33:54 OH in my living room: "So I don't think RMS can be snorting mountains of cocaine" 07:34:49 what means "koirammekokaan" 07:34:52 dog something 07:35:21 dog (irthative case) 07:35:35 that's a made up case 07:35:38 you just made up that case 07:35:52 I did not! someone else did, long ago 07:36:40 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:39:09 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 07:41:35 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Client Quit). 07:42:42 olsner: there are only two google hits for "irthative" and one is Phantom_Hoover on this channel. so yeah. 07:43:14 the other is a seriously misspelled "affirmative". 07:43:43 well i assume that's it, anyhow. 07:44:27 no wait, the first person to use it is you. 07:44:45 olsner: i conclude that you made it up, long ago. 07:44:47 huh? 07:45:40 hm wait there's some development into it. 07:45:51 06:05:06 What's that word that means "is not bad anymore"? 07:45:52 06:05:51 irthen bad? 07:45:53 06:05:06 What's that word that means "is not bad anymore"? 07:45:54 06:05:51 irthen bad? 07:45:54 kmc: i decline to answer 07:45:57 gah 07:48:41 kmc: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-mme https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ko https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-kaan hth 07:48:58 Aw, I was just about to decompose it. 07:49:51 so... translate plz 07:50:11 i tried to but gt couldn't make sense of the -kaan 07:50:15 yo fizzie, i'mma let you finnish, but wiktionary is one of the best decomposers of all time 07:50:25 koiramme = our dog? 07:50:27 It is indeed dog | our | make-into-a-question | even. 07:50:41 huh 07:51:03 It's also kind of awkward-sounding. 07:51:35 But it could be used in a sentence. "Pystyisiköhän koirammekokaan siihen?" "Could even our dog do it?" 07:51:57 fizzie: i should learn finnish :'( 07:52:14 In the sense of "even" meaning that it's very difficult, but maybe the dog could manage it. 07:52:25 (And not the sense that anyone, even a trained monkey could do it.) 07:52:51 Maybe "Could our dog even do it?"? 07:53:01 Maybe. I should learn English. 07:53:16 are you planning to go to england 07:53:48 Though somehow "could our dog even do it" sounds to me like it's not necessarily a difficult thing, just that you're a bit sceptical about the dog. 07:53:49 so the thing in the topic means "Don't even our dogs fly?" 07:54:01 Oh, it's in the topic. 07:54:34 oerjan: Single dog. But something like that, yes. 07:54:37 oh, that's where kmc got the word from 07:55:02 oerjan: It's kind of like you have lots of things and none of them are capable of flying, not even the dog. 07:55:03 fizzie: ensin sinä, sitten minä 07:55:12 huh gt thinks koiramme is plural 07:55:14 is that even grammatical finnish 07:55:31 oerjan: What's gt? 07:55:50 oerjan: Sadly, I think it's both. 07:56:28 oerjan: I thought the pluralization was of us, not of the dog. 07:56:43 oerjan: As in, there's no difference between the singular and plural in that case. But the verb would be inflected differently for plural. 07:57:28 fizzie: eek. 07:57:33 shachaf: google translate 07:57:38 Oh. 07:57:45 "kaikki koiramme" all our dogs, "paras koiramme" our best dog, yeah, there's no change for the plural when it's first-person-plural-possessive. 07:57:51 shachaf: well gt translates it as "our dogs" 07:57:57 Ah. 07:58:12 oerjan: It would be "koirammekokaan eivät lennä?" if they had several dogs, none of which flew. 07:58:37 actually it makes it singular if i remove that kokaan 07:58:50 and keeps the rest of the sentence 07:59:13 dekokaanization is a popular activity among finnish grammaticians 07:59:34 "Koirakokaan ei lennä?" seems to be translated more or less correctly. 07:59:34 fizzie: and here i thought finnish had a plural suffix. 08:00:17 oerjan: It has, it just seems to be hidden by the possessive suffix. "koira" dog, "koirat" dogs. 08:00:35 Or possibly "koiria" for a different kind of plural. 08:00:54 "täällä on paljon koiria" there are many dogs, "kaikki nämä koirat" all these dogs. 08:01:23 Er, first one meaning there are many dogs *here*, not just in general. 08:02:10 Also dog seems to be the first example word in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_grammar#Plurals coincidentally. 08:02:43 And I forgot the second kind of plural, the "kaksi koiraa" two dogs kind of one. 08:02:54 koirammekokaan ei nosta? 08:04:58 That's kind of missing what it would lift up. 08:05:23 yes 08:05:28 fizzie: doesn't koira have the third form, then? 08:05:29 it's also the wrong use of "even" 08:06:55 oerjan: Which third form was that? 08:07:11 inflected plural 08:07:23 Google mostly finds things like http://verwelktesgedicht.tumblr.com/post/65125049172/english-a-dog-swedish-what-english-the 08:07:29 I think that's pretty unfair. 08:07:41 which has a suspicious lack of koira examples 08:08:36 or wait that was the koiria you mentioned 08:10:05 so why isn't it koiriamme or something >:) 08:10:41 oerjan: It would be if the whole word would be in partitive case. 08:10:52 hmph 08:10:57 oerjan: "kukaan ei hoida koiraamme/koiriamme" nobody's taking care of our dog/dogs. 08:11:15 There the singular/plural distinction is maintained. 08:11:44 does this mean the nominative with a possessive suffix never has/usually doesn't have a distinct plural? 08:12:09 I think that might well be true. 08:12:20 "myymme koiramme" we sell our dog/dogs -- right. 08:12:39 If you wanted to emphasize it's plural, I think you'd then just "myymme kaikki koiramme" we sell all our dogs. 08:12:42 imo use a simple language like hebrew 08:12:54 argh you finns and using nominative for objects 08:15:07 hebrew is good because first you encode all the meaning like verb conjugation in the vowels and then you don't write the vowels 08:15:38 The topic proves (once again) that Finnish is an esoteric language. 08:16:06 And English? 08:16:36 We need some Norwegian in the topic. 08:16:40 I think the languages that aren't somehow weird form a minority 08:17:04 I used to think Swedish is really straightforward until I heard the complaints of my Japanese teacher 08:17:17 she claimed it's easier to learn Finnish than Swedish. 08:17:46 finnish and japanese are p. similar 08:18:06 oerjan: Finnish has three cases for objects :) 08:18:29 shachaf: that's true, I guess it's the very-high-level structural similarity which aided her. 08:18:53 who are you anyway 08:18:59 atehwa. 08:18:59 `welcome atehwa 08:19:03 atehwa: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:19:39 oerjan: and it's complicated more by the fact that possessive suffices (like -mme) often replace the inflective suffix. 08:20:56 shachaf: I'm one of those guys who were active in esolangs community in the 90's. 08:22:13 I didn't speak English in the 1990s so I don't know much about what was going on in that community at the time. 08:22:28 Maybe I should've learned Finnish instead. 08:24:49 atehwa: You ran the sange.fi iteration of the mailing list, unless I misremember? 08:29:01 There ought to be a channel for talking about esolangs. 08:29:27 I'd probably join. 08:30:34 fizzie: that's right. 08:39:04 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: http://corewar.co.uk). 08:49:53 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 09:23:33 -!- aloril_ has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:32:35 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:37:22 -!- aloril_ has joined. 09:42:38 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 09:52:14 max(street-outside-the-office): https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131108-otakaari.jpg 09:57:10 -!- Bike has joined. 10:05:27 -!- carado has joined. 10:26:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 11:27:33 -!- jarpal has joined. 11:30:18 -!- asie has joined. 11:43:41 -!- Taneb has joined. 11:47:28 ^help 11:47:28 ^

; ^def   ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
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12:01:44  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131108-fit.png   best fit? 
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13:19:23  (Parphrasing from an interview of Miyazaki by the Finnish public broadcasting company:) "I worked part-time for The Moomins for a while. I thought it would be funny to introduce a tank in the series. It was even approved, but then I heard it would be completely contradictory to Tove Jansson's philosophy."
13:19:28  And that's how the world lost the "Moomins in Tanks" concept.
13:19:55  (Source in Finnish: http://yle.fi/uutiset/hayao_miyazaki_jaahyvaishaastattelussa_halusin_muumeihin_tankin/6921093?origin=rss )
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14:40:41  Updated view: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131108-otakaari2.jpg
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14:47:46  fizzie: what time is it
14:52:40  08.16:47:46       quintopia | fizzie: what time is it
14:55:56  It is almost five pee-em.
14:57:24  https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131108-otakaari3.jpg   one more for the read
14:57:38  (#2 was made from 500 images, this one from a thousand.)
14:57:43  Road, not read.
14:57:48  (I'm going to go a bus now.)
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15:40:54  are there any esolangs based on infinite state machines?
15:41:02  who behave like finite state machines
15:41:09  but can create new states at runtime
15:41:12  and transitions at runtime
15:43:06  i.e a transtion is capable of creating a new state
15:43:14  and add transitions to it
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15:47:07  I have discovered the key to comedy.
15:47:08  http://i.imgur.com/BSFyKv9.gif
15:47:42  Are you sure?
15:48:23  120%
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15:59:46  on a completely off-topic note
15:59:51  there should be an esolang about uml
15:59:53  or using uml
15:59:55  or abusing uml
16:01:06  who put a image of a diode (I assume?) to list of ideas?
16:05:34  write an os in brainfuck
16:05:38  that seems odly trivial to do
16:05:45  oddly
16:06:33  unless you don't count that I write it in assembly and THEN compile it to brainfuck
16:06:38  and then compile it to native code
16:08:23  http://geek-and-poke.com/geekandpoke/2013/7/22/future-proof-your-data-model
16:08:48  Pascal is case-insensitive, how odd.
16:08:58  Also, why am I reading Pascal.
16:09:46  that's
16:09:54  probably not alowed in clean-code relational modelling stuff
16:10:21  i.e recursion
16:10:25  although 
16:10:51  (I think the esolang you describe already exists, and is called UML.)
16:11:38  well
16:11:52  I currently have lectures about writing software in an UML-Like matter
16:11:57  for embedded systems
16:12:02  modell driven development :)
16:12:03 -!- Slereahphone has joined.
16:12:04  oder model
16:12:28  Frankly, the *only* benefit I see now is
16:12:39  that you automatically have all the UML diagrams :)
16:12:51  and don't write code and then draw some UML diagrams :)
16:13:00  on the other hand
16:13:14  you have to insert code into the code generated by the codegen
16:13:24  because the code gen can't do *everything* for you
16:13:40  i.e. it can't generate code on how to actually control the hardware
16:14:10  so you have to write that code by hand using those horrible generated struct and types by the codegen
16:14:18  oddly named
16:14:21  and whatever
16:14:36  also you gotta know how the codegen generates the names :)
16:14:57  that and since it's an eclipse plugin
16:15:11  I've spent 2 hours configuring that damn plugin so it can target that arduino
16:16:37 -!- carado has joined.
16:16:39  http://marketplace.eclipse.org/sites/default/files/as_trade_DomainEditor.png
16:16:43  ^- it's pretty awesome 
16:17:07  and as you can see, it's MUCH MORE readable than code .
16:19:19  That looks like the kind of graph that graphviz-dot makes.
16:19:50  I can't find any pictures with CIRO Models
16:20:08  It's a modelling standard invented by someone working at my school
16:20:16  of course, you don't find anything about it on google
16:20:24  so I assume it's not really used in the real world
16:20:52 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds).
16:21:22  at least for CIRO
16:21:25  there are some results for DESC
16:22:35  two results
16:22:37  both german :)
16:23:38 -!- shikhin has joined.
16:24:05  http://www.s-i.ch/fileadmin/daten/sigmo/DESC_Methode_v11.pdf
16:24:09  ^- that's the paper
16:28:30  http://static.squarespace.com/static/518f5d62e4b075248d6a3f90/t/526b7aeae4b0bc40704fad14/1382775549381/good-framework.jpg?format=1500w
16:28:35  I'm starting to like that website
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16:36:13  the only difference between UML and not-UML is << >> anyway
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16:56:10  mroman: speaking of UML diagram generators. Just what I need. I wrote one once but turned out not to be so useful
16:56:59  determining the relationships between classes was not that easy it appears
16:57:44  I never spoke of such thing :)
16:57:49  but yeah
16:57:54  UML diagram generators are the way to go
16:58:03  write code, then generate UML class diagram
16:58:06 -!- Koen_ has joined.
16:58:07  unless you're a whuss
16:58:14  then you may do it the other way around ;)
16:58:25  I usually do it the other way around
16:58:32  AnotherTest: There's a working one for eclipse btw
16:58:38  I don't use eclipse
16:58:42  for Java at least
16:58:56 -!- nooodl has joined.
16:59:02  and I don't use java either :(
16:59:32  Then you must be a C++ guy
17:00:08  i confess
17:06:27  Representational State Transfer (REST) is an architectural style that abstracts the architectural elements within a distributed hypermedia system.[
17:06:30  Ah... now I get it .
17:07:15  the only thing missing is within an architectural distributed hypermedia system
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17:19:20  well
17:19:30  20 days and I might know what my bachelor thesis is going to be about
17:19:45  I just pray it's not some erm, crm, erp crap
17:22:13  aren't you allowed to choose the subject of your thesis?
17:22:52  hell no
17:23:00  well
17:23:03  ok
17:23:11  Yes, you can choose your own thesis
17:23:16  if someone accepts it :)
17:23:47  usually companies can request students to do some stuff
17:24:06  they pay 2000$ for the school to anounce their stuff as a bachelor thesis
17:24:15  and then you choose one from that pool
17:24:19  ugh why doesn't vim come with python support on debian
17:24:24  ah I see
17:24:48  in what field is your thesis going to be?
17:24:58  or you can make a request for yourself to do something
17:25:10  if you have a good idea that gets accepted
17:25:33  that hell no was not directed at your question ;)
17:25:47  AnotherTest: That I don't know.
17:25:58  something with computers for sure ;)
17:26:39  but I can't tell you in which particular field of computer stuff
17:26:48  also... this is not a university bachelor.
17:27:56  so I'm not sure if it even counts as a bachelor in the US
17:28:03  I don't live in the US
17:28:13  Finland?
17:28:21  Finland is pretty present here
17:28:27  or Finnland?
17:28:35 -!- shikhin_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
17:28:39  Finnland.
17:28:58  Finn the Human
17:29:40  That's one weird looking language
17:29:57  you inflect verbs according to grammatical case?
17:30:48  taloksi
17:31:57  There's no word so small we wouldn't inflect it.
17:32:11  41
17:34:12  puhunet.
17:34:52  "You might speak", approximately.
17:35:27  Second-person singular present potential.
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18:12:10  Hello the people
18:12:59  Slereahello
18:18:06  We the Hello.
18:20:06  hi fizzie
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18:39:33  does anyone here have a solution for file transfer between a linux box and a galaxy s4 that actually works
18:39:39  asking for actual tested solutions and not guesses
18:40:04  morse code
18:40:18  Analog modem via microphone/loudspeaker.
18:40:38  Semaphores
18:40:39  I like the implication that we've both actually tested these.
18:40:41  Smoke signals
18:40:46  i have a galaxy s3 but i'd just use dropbox
18:40:52  or email it to myself, just to piss everyone off
18:41:00  Tattooing the data on a courrier's head
18:41:29  kmc: "galaxy s4" is awfully specific
18:41:32  Bike: i hate the future
18:41:42  shachaf: yes well Samsung seems to use a different MTP stack from other android devices, or something
18:41:45  it works, aight
18:43:09  kmc: well with my moto x i can just click the little picture of a blue tooth and it works pretty good
18:43:14  ;_;
18:43:25  and with my galaxy nexus i can plug it in in the usb port and that works too
18:43:25  what software do you use on the linux side
18:43:29  have not tried anything else
18:43:43  shachaf: does your galaxy nexus do USB mass storage aka "the terrible thing that actually fucking works"
18:43:50  i think so
18:43:53  i don't remember for sure
18:44:18  i don't know what bluetooth software i use just the default usb thing on ubuntu
18:44:42  or rather goobuntu
18:44:58  s/usb/bluetooth/
18:45:05  My Nexus 7 does not do USB mass storage, only MTP; and I've used... oh no, I forgot what I used! 
18:45:24  i just click the clicky buttons until something happens
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18:46:11  (Also I've used that MTP thing, like, once. After that it's just been sftp over wifi.)
18:46:34  i might be mixing things up i haven't done it v. much
18:46:58  (I think it was that FUSE mtpfs thing.)
18:48:14 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_).
18:48:42  fizzie: which end is the sftp server?
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18:56:23  i don't want to run a ssh server on my phone because i'll probably get owned
18:56:33  but i want to run rsync commands
18:56:38  i guess i could install rsync on the phone somehow
18:56:53  or just sign up for fucking dropbox
18:57:00  fucking fuckbox
18:57:40  kmc: The Linux end is the SFTP server, in my case.
18:58:35  kmc: I use ES File Manager, but there are plenty of solutions for syncing files on Android
18:58:43  most of which work over SSH
18:58:54  I think it was something like ES File Manager that I've used as the client on the Android side; that, and VX ConnectBot's "download file" feature, but it's not terribly user-interfacey.
18:59:23  ESFM has a wonderful interface these days.. it used to be difficult.
18:59:35  But I'm certain there are lighter apps for syncing over SSH
18:59:58  kmc: you could download the file over a local HTTP server on your phone?
19:02:02  that's a great solution, unless he wants to do so automatically
19:04:29  or unless I want to sync a big tree of files, which I do
19:04:37  and delete ones that don't exist on the server, too
19:05:23 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
19:05:42  do you use a service like Drive? I'm guessing no, since you don't want Dropbox
19:06:46  I already know about Dropbox and Google Drive and HTTP and all of these things...
19:06:58  i don't need you all to brainstorm shitty solutions for me
19:07:05  do you run an Android device or an Apple device?
19:07:31  mrhmouse: you didn't even read my original question apparently
19:07:58 -!- Bike has joined.
19:08:00  I didn't log on until your comment "i don't want to run a ssh server on my phone because i'll probably get owned"
19:08:21  I'm gonna stop talking because I don't want to be a jerk to people who are honestly trying to help but fundamentally misunderstand the sort of inquiry I am making
19:09:42  srry
19:10:32  Oh, I have one of those phone things. It can make and receive calls.
19:11:20  mine just makes noises and receives odd looks
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21:26:39  Hello!
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21:35:43  welp
21:55:24  "In which we put a v8 API on top of spidermonkey without futzing with a separate build system. Prep work for spidernode."
21:55:28  sometimes I run into scary things on the internet
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22:05:38  huh python has http://docs.python.org/2/library/string.html#template-strings in addition to % and .format()
22:05:56  and this metaprogram is possibly using all of them :<
22:06:13 -!- variable has joined.
22:06:31  kmc metaprogram he didn't like?
22:06:42  too easy
22:06:43  we're nearing that point yes
22:07:15  i like bugs
22:07:18  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1nsOKBgmOs
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22:41:06  Oh man, I spent hours today getting people to help me get my laptop working
22:41:10  And now my desktop's playing up
22:43:15  Also, I think having someone on your gamejam team who is doing a PhD in video game artificial intelligence is pretty handy
22:44:12  depends what kind of PhD
22:44:38  little does taneb know that it's a phd in deliberately shitty AI
22:45:11  Bike, it's on Monte Carlo search trees with hidden information, I think
22:46:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
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22:52:07  "But USB devices were used to ferry malware cross a far greater air-gap: Russian astronauts had carried a virus on removable media to the International Space Station infecting machines there, Kaspersky said."
22:52:36  :D
22:52:43  more like lack of air gap (by which i mean: are you fucking serious)
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23:06:35  Taneb, there's obviously some kind of duality at play
23:07:31  Phantom_Hoover, yeah probably
23:07:34  How is the fortress
23:07:45  you're making me feel guilty
23:07:46  stop it
23:08:48  Oh, that reminds me
23:09:14  does it remind you of something else i should feel guilty about
23:09:20  if so: stop remembering
23:09:45  bill gates has his own URL shortener
23:09:46  b-gat.es
23:09:50  that is so money
23:10:18  Phantom_Hoover, no, it's something I should feel guilty about
23:10:33  kmc, looks like it's just an alias for bitly (or whatever the proper term is)
23:10:37  Taneb, continue remembering
23:11:03  sure
23:11:39  having novelty urls isn't all that money (were you not around for libc.soquest)
23:12:22  i wasn't
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23:13:35  .soquest?
23:13:52  the quest for libc.so
23:14:02  oh
23:14:08  aren't two-letter tlds reserved
23:14:18  for like, ocular sudan.
23:14:41  (gregor wanted to buy it, it failed because someone was more money than him (gregor was very money at the time, though))
23:15:21  isn't a tld like ten thousand fucks
23:15:45  Bike: Not the .so TLD, just the libc.so domain.
23:16:15  (This was when .so (Somalia) was having some sort of a thing.)
23:16:26  oh, it's somalia. durr
23:16:29  Involving possibly auctions or whatnot.
23:16:50  (I guess it's possible Gregor wanted to buy Somalia too? The domains probably come with it.)
23:17:01  i know a guy who lives in somaliland, i don't think it has its own tld though
23:17:10  they just use .dj like punks i imagine
23:17:38  i suppose he could've paid a band of mercenaries to take over the part of the country that hands out domains, at least
23:18:00  Bike, why does he live in somaliland
23:18:18  why was gregor so money
23:18:21  and not now?
23:18:30  because his dad's a fucking idiot (according to him)
23:18:57  isn't a tld like ten thousand fucks  <-- depends how much you make from one fuck I guess
23:19:18  oh is gregor less money now? i was just referring to his general attitude at the time
23:19:45  i don't remember the amounts but there was some heated discussion over why you would spend that much on a novelty domain
23:20:02  whats a good suggestion for a simple-to-parse but relatively interesting proglang
23:20:12  There's not even any website at libc.so which makes the whole thing quite smurfy. (It's registered by a Marcel Meyer from levelsystems.de.)
23:20:13  APL
23:20:19  APL lol
23:20:20  eodermdrome (haha no)
23:20:25  the amount was $1k or something
23:20:43  actually... i guess eodermdrome's got pretty basic syntax
23:21:41  augur_, Real Fast Nora's Hair Salon 3: Shear Disaster Download
23:21:46  Easy to parse and easy to read!
23:24:42  augur_: scheme
23:24:45  Phantom_Hoover: In sum total I had $1,500 for it.
23:24:59 * Taneb --> bed
23:25:00 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving).
23:25:16  esp. if you do what everyone does and pick a restricted subset of scheme that proves whatever point you want to make
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23:37:47  tan:|
23:37:51  oh whered he go
23:37:52  that bastard
23:38:03  kmc: scheme is easy to parse, but not rich enough
23:38:46  it basically has two syntactic constructs: , and (*)
23:40:04  well you asked for simple to parse.
23:40:17  not simple-to-parse-but-not-THAT-simple.
23:41:16  "but relatively interesting proglang"
23:41:16  :P
23:41:28  "interesting" includes semantics.
23:41:37  poppycock!
23:46:09  http://esolangs.org/wiki/Poppycock  "This article is a stub, which means that it is not detailed enough and needs to be expanded. Please help us by adding some more information. Poppycock is a simple to parse, but not simple to parse but not THAT simple, but relatively interesting proglang."
23:55:50  augur_, still think eodermdrome fits that brief
23:56:41  yeah I didn't understand you meant "simple-to-parse but interesting syntax"
23:56:47  because syntax is boring ;P
23:56:55  (not really but kinda)