< 1384128595 202745 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1384128806 331754 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384128806 695408 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Quit: This is me, signing off. Probably rebooting or something. < 1384128835 258532 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384129047 689314 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384129273 90239 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-68.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384129382 131844 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384130117 952173 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes int-e as the new person to shout at
< 1384131384 951352 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1384131550 303523 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384132261 644072 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384132324 841313 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384132854 774956 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384134245 721982 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here know of a good online collaborative mind-mapping app that lets you make full on graphs (not just trees)? < 1384134711 856916 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I don't know of any at all, sorry. What are you intending to make? < 1384135070 831100 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, those are outlawed to prevent evil ai takeover. < 1384135975 766965 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384136837 497297 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i want to map all of human knowledge down into learnable chunks < 1384136952 134057 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: That would be really difficult, I think. < 1384137246 465940 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: well, i'll have to hire some people to do it for me < 1384137253 826118 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but first, a tool! < 1384137390 590162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a tool would help even if you are making something else. < 1384137429 274451 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you map down. usually i just map, without a particular direction < 1384138661 972449 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PART #esoteric :"http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere." < 1384138812 722904 :muskrat_!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384138856 606257 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-68.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1384138860 775421 :muskrat_!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net NICK :muskrat < 1384139847 568453 :nooodl__!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384140069 724279 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1384142735 171215 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384142827 279037 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384142837 919725 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, I've got it. < 1384142881 438622 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What have you got now? < 1384142943 115088 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :We can claim that no set is bigger than the set of all natural numbers, as long as we deny that this fact entails that there's a mapping from the set of all natural numbers onto any arbitrary set. < 1384142997 447986 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you deny that? < 1384143047 248087 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is possible, but in what mathematical models is that possible? < 1384143063 342694 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every first-order theory that admits infinite models admits countable models. < 1384143102 701946 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meaning there's a countable model of ZFC. And in a countable model of ZFC, all infinite sets are the same "size", in some sense, even though they have different cardinalities in the model. < 1384143114 101269 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, OK, then. < 1384143335 244390 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have example, please? < 1384143496 948401 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 241 seconds < 1384144194 980019 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of sense is the same "size" even though they have different cardinalities < 1384145069 795852 :nooodl__!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384145160 356374 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you explain it please? < 1384145338 515319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather trivial: you have a model of ZFC inside ZFC. by the inner logic of the model, the sets don't have the same cardinality because the model doesn't contain any bijection between them. but the whole model is a countable set in the outer ZFC, which therefore has such a bijection which is not inside the model. < 1384145402 214097 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the sets of the inner model are finite or countable from the viewpoint of the outer ZFC. < 1384145466 346695 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(technically the outer theory needs to be ZFC+"ZFC is consistent", i think) < 1384145511 244474 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to be sure such an inner model exists) < 1384145538 813710 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should use that axiom all the time in ZFC. < 1384145539 963442 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just in case. < 1384145582 746250 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: But then it isn't really just plain ZFC, isn't it? < 1384145640 969610 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: the advanced users (e.g. grothendieck) tend to use large cardinality axioms for this < 1384145674 830020 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are "large cardinality axioms"? < 1384145678 490632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but by godel's completeness theorem, just "ZFC is consistent" is what you need for a first-order model. < 1384145694 910286 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384145707 898698 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: axioms that say that certain enormous cardinalities exist. this tends to imply thinks even stronger than consistency of ZFC. < 1384145737 8671 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i once went to a talk about that < 1384145748 238264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think lexande is an expert in all those things < 1384145788 742655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. strongly inaccessible cardinals is one kind, which iiuc imply that not only do you have models, but in the model sets are still represented as their set of elements in the outer theory. < 1384145852 729268 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the immigration & security checks to enter Republic of Korea from United States of America are nothing compared to the checks for entering Samsung Digital City from Republic of Korea < 1384145866 511333 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, just having set models of ZFC isn't very strong at all by the standards of large cardinal assumptions < 1384145868 733538 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: are you in korea < 1384145875 717521 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically the sets smaller than the smallest inaccessible cardinal are a model in the most intuitive way) < 1384145878 914727 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it's just about the weakest you'd consider < 1384145881 691990 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there's some theorem about problems if you have "These axioms are consistent" as one of your axioms < 1384145886 350071 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it certainly implies CON(ZFC) < 1384145894 757278 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6b's_theorem < 1384145898 613972 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think I might be in Samsung < 1384145977 957756 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes that's godel's second incompleteness theorem < 1384146010 670201 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have effective control of this territory < 1384146032 23486 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes, but "there are set models of ZFC" is an extra axiom on top of ZFC < 1384146051 810982 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:d549:5a0b:84e4:9118 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384146066 243211 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so once you have that, you can happily prove ZFC itself is consistent, though the extra axiom might not be < 1384146095 986051 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have inaccessible cardinals then you have lots of set models of ZFC, and CON^n(ZFC) for any reasonable n, etc < 1384146184 839003 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: irc2go < 1384146202 745243 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:d549:5a0b:84e4:9118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384146285 930857 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's still pretty small by the standards of large cardinal properties < 1384146287 429412 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cantorsattic.info/Upper_attic < 1384146356 507252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the kunen inconsistency, i recall seeing that mentioned. < 1384146400 634141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that list totally ordered :P < 1384146421 455001 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, well each of the entries on that list potentially defines a proper class of cardinals < 1384146431 898417 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's ordered by how big the smallest in the given class is < 1384146467 170884 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, every time you come up with one of these, you don't know if it's consistent < 1384146497 90039 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can only appeal to even larger cardinal assumptions for proof of its consistency, which isn't much comfort < 1384146555 382046 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, Reinhardt defined a large cardinal which turned out to be inconsistent with ZFC (though maybe not with ZF) < 1384146603 511029 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anything on that list might be inconsistent < 1384146608 787033 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed ZFC itself might be inconsistent < 1384146638 563266 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really like axiom of choice anyways, although maybe ZF + axiom of dependent choice restricted to pointed sets; does that work? < 1384146685 521192 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: cardinalities are a mess without choice < 1384146752 934781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande: A mess in what way, and do some weaker axioms do anything with it? < 1384146762 668955 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :without choice, cardinalities are not always comparable; this is equivalent. < 1384146795 421356 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even have |A×A|=A without choice < 1384146822 772005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am not so sure that they should be always comparable and all of that stuff anyways < 1384146830 620775 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what oerjan said < 1384146842 976703 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also does everybody know the story about that? < 1384146863 172729 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which story? < 1384146874 370647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember on the spot whether i know it < 1384146922 28075 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if you aren't using ZFC doesn't imply ZF + not axiom of choice, though, I think! < 1384146931 169854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, is this that "an equivalence between two obviously X statements isn't interesting" story < 1384146972 794332 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tarski proved that "|A×A|=|A| for all infinite sets A" was equivalent to the axiom of choice, and tried to publish this theorem in Comptes Rendus. < 1384147000 616174 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was refereed by Frechet and Lebesgue. < 1384147002 606384 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both wrote letters rejecting the article. Fréchet wrote that an implication between two well known truths is not a new result. And Lebesgue wrote that an implication between two false statements is of no interest. Tarski said that he never again submitted a paper to the Comptes Rendus. < 1384147044 458912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, yes. < 1384147127 390304 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is something that should happen more often. < 1384147247 36441 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neither of those rejections seem valid to me since they aren't necessarily going to be known true or false; axiom of choice is not used in all systems anyways! So, such thing still can be a new result and can be of interest, I think. Even if they are false statements. < 1384147302 687301 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't really agree with the axiom of choice anyways, nor with the other statement necessarily, either. < 1384147492 744849 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: of course they weren't valid, that's why the story has become an anecdote. < 1384147686 764124 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happened at a time when the idea that there was only one set of truths in mathematics was coming crashing down, but neither reviewer had realized it, even though they had made inconsistent conclusions within the mess. < 1384147699 548931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1384147701 961682 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1384147802 704026 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, thatsthejoke.jpg < 1384147871 345711 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastequotes zzo38 < 1384147878 727648 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.1654 < 1384147974 594226 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: still waiting on zzo38_ebooks < 1384148199 590427 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The joke is a JPEG picture? < 1384148214 840441 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`delquote 665 < 1384148219 827865 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​*poof* When you die in Canada, you die in real life. < 1384148406 476182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`revert < 1384148410 794984 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Done. < 1384148432 690272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why < 1384148442 494016 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid question < 1384148492 111368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't like you deleting that < 1384148516 683461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a good quote for the quote list < 1384148576 563457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe there should be an option to hide quotations without renumbering the rest, and an option to tell it whether or not to include hidden quotations in a search. < 1384148883 925701 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:d549:5a0b:84e4:9118 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384149040 315476 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes it is < 1384149068 134007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just quoting an internet comic strip < 1384149083 415692 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, zzo38 quoting an internet comic strip < 1384149176 536162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the quotation came from elsewhere and they quoted the comic strip, perhaps. < 1384149190 685854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But I do not remember.) < 1384149215 346165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1384149386 379432 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cantorsattic.info/Upper_attic is some crazy shit < 1384149419 335752 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cantorsattic.info/Totally_indescribable#totally_indescribable lol? < 1384149429 552408 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1384149607 643701 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they can't be described. < 1384149750 89114 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhttp://cantorsattic.info/Subtle#Subtle_cardinal Weakly ineffable cardinals are limits of totally indescribable cardinals. [1] ([3] for proof) < 1384149756 556455 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-u < 1384149784 513878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course huge cardinals is a specific term. < 1384149796 913167 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fine with them being actually indescribable, but then i wonder what that proof looks like. < 1384149934 275539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, whoa, you know < 1384150012 598070 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Whenever the context-sensitive language corresponding to the set of finite configurations cannot be described by a context-free or simpler grammar, the problem of recognizing words in the language is PSPACE-complete with respect to the lengths of these words (eg. [28])." < 1384150017 459055 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun reading wolfram < 1384150126 901498 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this must be something about finite configurations whatever that is, because there are certainly context-sensitive languages in between context-free and PSPACE-complete < 1384150158 761300 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(e.g. anything theta(n^k) for k > 3) < 1384150215 311730 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also he says the language of the limit set of a CA can in general be Pi^0_1, which he then refers to as properly RE, and type 0. < 1384150238 465613 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, assuming P != PSPACE, of course. < 1384150241 447286 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this is about the limit sets of cellular automata, and [28] is a standard complexity theory reference < 1384150246 996839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384150292 696012 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this paper is like 60 pages, it contains one proof, phrased as "it seems X that because Y" < 1384150298 838885 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1384150306 583955 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it seems that X because Y" < 1384150437 642134 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly X swimmingly Y < 1384150445 434408 :TodPunk!~Tod@50-198-177-185-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384153364 52293 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1384153513 701515 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:d549:5a0b:84e4:9118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384153535 356062 :realz!~pinky@pool-108-41-150-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384153537 966705 :realz!~pinky@pool-108-41-150-102.nycmny.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Changing host < 1384153538 123150 :realz!~pinky@unaffiliated/realazthat JOIN :#esoteric < 1384154004 864445 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does JFIF support any codecs other than JPEG < 1384154012 625939 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :JFIF / EXIF < 1384154272 669958 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Formally, the Exif and JFIF standards are incompatible. This is because both specify that their particular application segment (APP0 for JFIF, APP1 for Exif) must be the first in the image file. In practice, many programs and digital cameras produce files with both application segments included. This will not affect the image decoding for most decoders, but poorly designed JFIF or Exif parsers may not recognise the file properly." < 1384154293 447513 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how standard-compliant is poorly designed < 1384154467 860151 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postel's law and all that. < 1384154704 704069 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :few things make me angrier than postel's law < 1384154763 566221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1384154930 990165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384154953 872128 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the robot-toilet in Samsung Digital City has a warning not to smoke while you're sitting on it < 1384155090 266731 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT : < 1384155094 123111 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do it kmc < 1384155146 204261 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are, like, six different reasons for me not to smoke while sitting on the robot toilet < 1384155152 848465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the warning is just one of them < 1384155162 36769 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: does it make you go postel < 1384155171 604780 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1384155240 305452 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: how many of those allow you to sit on the robot toilet in the first place < 1384155359 164011 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:d549:5a0b:84e4:9118 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384155400 642479 :tertu!~tertu@143.44.72.124 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384155438 452305 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ask ^v why do you keep badgering us < 1384155438 608659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384156331 601041 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not only I who hates the layout syntax of Haskell and Python (at least in Haskell it can be disabled). So does Yin Wang (someone who also discussed the call/cc "Yin-Yang Puzzle", and is linked from Wikipedia for this purpose). < 1384156368 981812 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not hate haskell layout, but i do deny it my essence < 1384156372 726542 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what's so bad about it, tho < 1384156642 389901 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Some of the things are those they describe in there. < 1384156691 641220 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing mentioned there is that a single keystroke can make the program wrong. < 1384156722 641979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is different from my own reason which is that it confuses the syntax a lot, unnecessarily. < 1384156753 561103 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For actual tree structures, with one record per line, layout syntax does work, but still isn't necessarily best way. < 1384156765 740457 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, actual programs aren't quite like that, for various reasons, nor should they be. < 1384156790 728020 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a single keystroke can make the program wrong in a lot of other ways, too < 1384156813 145148 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes, that is true, I know; also, it isn't the reason I use anyways like I said. < 1384156882 662502 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such a thing isn't really much of a problem with programming in Haskell, though, since you can use non-layout mode if you prefer. (You can even mix layout and non-layout in one file, although I do not recommend this.) < 1384157175 277697 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, granted, "there are other ways to have bugs" is a shitty (and depressingly common) argument against a feature which prevents bugs < 1384157194 493921 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my experience with Haskell is that bugs due to bad layout, which also pass the typechecker, are very rare < 1384157215 573287 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but also, bugs that hit the typechecker aren't free, and it takes experience to recognize when one has occured due to bad layout) < 1384157225 480785 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Haskell IDE which draws in ghostly { ; } for you would be really cool < 1384157257 360930 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point of layout is that it's visually obvious... < 1384157266 364385 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, you might as well just use non-layout syntax then < 1384157292 174609 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, due to the typechecker it does do this, which Python doesn't. < 1384157339 543837 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: People have used that as an argument when trying to figure out what syntax for applicative-do should be like. < 1384157354 94942 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :There have been various strange proposals. < 1384157405 986983 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: well you could turn it on specifically when you're learning the layout rules, or when you hit a bug that you suspect is due to bad layout < 1384157424 796502 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could even use a different bgcolor for every layout block!!!! like some scheme editors < 1384157430 960577 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't like all that built-in do-notation and stuff and think macro-syntax should be used instead. < 1384157522 766949 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: All of those IDE ideas have been discussed in Yin Wang's article, actually. (They also mentioned "syntax considered harmful"; I partially agree with that and think that macro-syntax is a better idea anyways, which also avoids some of these problems) < 1384157539 280979 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They didn't mention macro-syntax, though. I did.) < 1384157576 913321 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: what do you think of Rust's macro system? < 1384157624 392637 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I have looked at the documentation but don't really know much about how good it is; I haven't paid a lot of attention to Rust in general so I don't really know a lot about that. < 1384157635 268353 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair 'nuff < 1384157635 711392 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1384158092 367425 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And there are a few other Haskell programmers who prefer non-layout, too. But like I said it doesn't really matter much since using one or the other style doesn't prevent a module from being imported.) < 1384158317 937612 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if adding macro-syntax to the existing system would cause problems with layout syntax. If so, it could still be used in non-layout mode only, or possibly you could allow user-defined keywords to specify if they introduce a block, and if so check if there is a { after it whenever it occurs. < 1384158471 88893 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :My (limited) understanding is that the parser emits { ; } block tokens based on indents/dedents, so I wouldn't think it'd impact macros < 1384158614 747704 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: it also emits }'s on syntax errors < 1384158703 881251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, if ending a block in a spot can make it parse the next token, it will do so. < 1384158714 53340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an indentation block < 1384158986 457664 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it does that too < 1384160039 193770 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384160591 747049 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of something, which is, if it can be made a kind of sequent calculus that can have not only multiple sequents above the line but also supports multiple sequents below the line? < 1384160829 83839 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1384161450 579332 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: so a proof would be a DAG rather than a tree? < 1384161665 631031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am skeptical of macro systems where you aren't just running normal code at compile time < 1384161730 123468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sometimes you just need that, and macros are a feature of last resort, so do you really want a last resort macro system and another almost-last-resort system < 1384161903 792843 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really think macros should be a feature of last resort. < 1384161918 445180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: Yes I suppose so, then a proof will be a DAG. < 1384162016 44119 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm skeptical of this idea that macro systems absolutely need to enforce hygeine, as opposed to providing hygeine tools for the macro author < 1384162047 948701 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like when I write a macro in C or Haskell or Rust, often as not I *do* want to do something tricky with binders < 1384162059 26273 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I, too; I think it should provide hygeine rather than enforce it < 1384162082 285094 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure I would feel differently if I programmed in Scheme but, well < 1384162117 770802 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think part of why macros aren't a feature of last resort in Lisps is that you don't have a static type system anyway, so you don't lose as much by abstracting on the syntactic level rather than the semantic level < 1384162182 907449 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not think macros should ever be only a feature of last result. My opinion is that do-notation in Haskell should rather be defined as a macro in Haskell, instead of built-in, too. < 1384162199 429994 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: but abstracting on the semantic level is so much nicer < 1384162202 502621 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to reason about < 1384162213 610718 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also consider Forth, where the compile-time and run-time are really the same thing, and macros are really just programs. < 1384162221 38953 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think more about what things are rather than how they're spelled < 1384162222 565740 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: You can do both! < 1384162250 356517 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but I think the phase distinction is useful, even though it should be possible to nest (so you can compile code at runtime, and run code at "compile time") < 1384162252 366959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And many standard macros can be defined in a standard library so that you don't normally need to define your own, if this would help, too!) < 1384162270 990949 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the phase distinction is useful because it's where type checking happens < 1384162307 693417 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't actually care if machine code is generated there or later; some languages with such a phase distinction for 'static' checking might still benefit greatly from a JIT implementation) < 1384162376 899434 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, depending on the programming language in use, such a phase distinction would be very useful. < 1384162442 905952 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: your DAG proof idea is interesting; do you have an idea of a system which would be nice to express that way? < 1384162507 147296 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: I don't actually know that. < 1384162595 676738 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there has been discussion of a Template Haskell dialect where the type of a metaprogram includes the type of the program it produces < 1384162599 368853 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think MetaML works this way < 1384162627 81177 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think most of the practical examples of useful macros can't be typed, then < 1384162713 362254 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen about Template Haskell with typed metaprograms; still is useful even to have typeless metaprograms too though. But being typed may also help in some ways, and may allow some additional kinds of macros to be made in a few cases. < 1384162739 593916 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it allow additional kinds of macros? < 1384162781 534832 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure, but depending on what other features are implemented there might be a possibility, or maybe not; I don't know for sure either way. < 1384162870 772781 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1384162875 30307 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can think of an example, let me know! < 1384162892 740036 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1384162936 401510 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Servo already has a number of metaprograms and they are mostly for converting specification formats (e.g. WebIDL) into executable code < 1384162943 358176 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of which can be done within the Rust macro system :( < 1384163079 28009 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that kind of thing won't admit typing metaprograms by their output < 1384163183 76734 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case then it does seem Rust macro system does have some problems. Perhaps just allowing macros to call executable Rust programs at compile-time, would that help at all? < 1384163764 830555 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-28-79.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384163846 353510 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384164057 860124 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332] < 1384165086 867331 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384165370 841485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384165394 578840 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384165468 331291 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1384165876 799540 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1384165944 827099 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384165950 708987 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1384165966 636089 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would I be correct to say matrix multiplication forms a category? < 1384166106 672476 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384166161 514782 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where the category arrows are matrices and objects are dimensons < 1384166809 451062 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384166817 710342 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1384166866 19220 :Taneb!~taneb@nas21-142.york.ac.uk QUIT :Client Quit < 1384168294 514805 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384168547 148508 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb neat, I suppose it does and it would be isomorphic to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_of_vector_spaces , or equivalent in the sense of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_of_categories anyway < 1384168547 304832 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384168610 324714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, the dimension theorem for vector spaces says that the isomorphism classes in K-Vect correspond exactly to the cardinal numbers, and that K-Vect is equivalent to the subcategory of K-Vect which has as its objects the free vector spaces Kn, where n is any cardinal number." < 1384168846 4364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll invent categories if you try to extend monoids to be "typed" to support matrix multiplication < 1384168863 879546 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to say something about vector spaces of uncountably infinite dimension and aren't they super weird < 1384168918 25550 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I remembered that functions A→K for an uncountable field K are such a vector space and seem nice and reasonable (as much as any uncountable thing can be nice) < 1384168966 809259 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even for a countably infinite field K < 1384169027 7336 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no, it depends on the cardinality of A not K, I think? < 1384169030 382104 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <--- not a mathematician
< 1384169159 497775 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384169163 833204 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 yes that would help; Rust already has a thing called "syntax extensions" which are invoked the same way as macros but can run arbitrary Rust code, unfortunately you can't define a new one except by editing the compiler < 1384169163 989669 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384169204 504191 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell zzo38 also there are other problems with macros such as, they can't be exported from a compilation unit, and the scoping / module exporting is different from everything else, but these are seen as bugs to be fixed < 1384169204 697120 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384169284 898583 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384169353 759469 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Bike < 1384169422 86127 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1384170737 608717 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384171182 210822 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384172303 235417 :Taneb!90208049@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384172422 272579 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384172498 864458 :Taneb!90208049@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.73 PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah, I realised it in the context of their relation to set relation compositions < 1384172778 204021 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1384172950 591085 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384173581 108656 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dgrxfgnjozdcegky QUIT : < 1384174137 90700 :Taneb!90208049@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.73 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1384174375 698828 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384174936 479636 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384175210 918669 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1384175228 726548 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384175384 291904 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384175411 655927 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384175599 351869 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384175757 841139 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384175768 912098 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Quit: Viivan loppu. < 1384176048 527755 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176134 655526 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1384176218 730995 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1384176270 453104 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176421 723947 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1384176695 270868 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176829 247463 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176839 485985 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 QUIT :Changing host < 1384176839 486120 :ais523_!93bcc342@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176839 486199 :ais523_!93bcc342@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Changing host < 1384176839 486276 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384176859 956111 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384176911 859124 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384177125 681914 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 248 seconds < 1384177558 61942 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :good chmæric mœrning! < 1384177731 468843 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what were we discussing concerning a possible zeta? I kinda had a long weekend (including, but notwithstanding, missile launches) < 1384177765 539825 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The list popular Adobe passwords. < 1384177803 374339 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! indeed. < 1384177877 440709 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be as good a fit as, say, general word frequencies, which are the canonical Zipf's law example, but still. < 1384178101 215343 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. < 1384178155 738926 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384178262 458059 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know how algol 68 allows spaces in identifiers? < 1384178271 977212 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :algol 60 also allows spaces in identifiers, but it's space-insensitive < 1384178278 712825 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so "foobar" and "foo bar" are the same identifier < 1384178296 261489 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want an identifier with the same name as a keyword, you add internal spaces to mark it as not being the keyword < 1384178313 699356 :shikhin__!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384178440 632092 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha: Algol 60 defines the meanings of "true" and "false" as "obvious" < 1384178569 60299 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simple days gone by. < 1384178572 133652 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about file_not_found? < 1384178611 76996 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval succ False < 1384178614 108256 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error (1): < 1384178616 524796 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~eval succ False < 1384178618 157477 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1384178646 999300 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how did you become the Best Bot? how did you overcome your Error (1) phase? < 1384178647 216694 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: come on now, it is installed. ( require-extension ( srfi 1 13 14)) instead < 1384178658 424490 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: a good tip. I'll keep that in mind. < 1384178658 588325 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: except in university oo projects page on toreun.org, but i < 1384178660 934537 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, algol 60 defines whitespace as not existing and freely usable anywhere < 1384178685 288510 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... sorear's interesting interpretation of the INTERCAL manual may actually be correct < 1384178696 685441 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he interpreted it as permitting whitespace within keywords, which is something that simply hadn't occured to me at all < 1384178712 71281 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at least one other language that was around at the time did that too... < 1384178760 444715 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL EAS EDO N'T DO THAT! < 1384178885 801048 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: hi! were you `relcommed already? did you appear during the weekend? < 1384178899 638959 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: that doesn't do what you expect < 1384178911 961556 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DO ends the PLEASE DON'T and then starts a new command < 1384178921 922238 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get "PLEASE DON'T" (a no-op), followed by "DO THAT" (not a no-op) < 1384178930 921556 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you wanted it parsed all as one statement? < 1384179246 655049 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: There's a library on multivariate Bernoulli distributions that I believe gets some "real use" on 0-1 data. < 1384179256 355038 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384179331 318486 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I did, but I didn't really think about it :) < 1384179347 408809 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I guess I wasn't. < 1384179356 96561 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally leaving a DO in a middle of a comment is an occupational hazard of INTERCAL < 1384179367 536409 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I've been here before, but this time lambdabot dragged me here :) < 1384179379 570496 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving disguised DOs in code intentionally to produce funny error messages is one of the joys < 1384179388 994271 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even Donald Knuth has been caught doing it on occasion) < 1384179443 472288 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :my most notable intercal accomplishment is a rot13 filter (50 lines without using standard library.) ... and without comments :) < 1384179451 583402 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: (I believe there's also a related saying, something like "in the dark, all cats are Gaussian".) < 1384179468 81946 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're responsible for the rot13 in the pit? neat! < 1384179515 442668 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, that's a different one < 1384179520 239725 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1384179536 995895 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm now duty-bound to add yours too, if it's appropriately licensed < 1384179544 244252 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the pit is meant to be a collection of all known INTERCAL programs < 1384179554 146618 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(except CADIE, she's too independent-minded and also under the wrong license) < 1384179614 75377 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com NICK :augur < 1384179673 926708 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://int-e.eu/~bf3/tmp/myrot13.i (it's my code, do whatever you want with it. I'd put it in the public domain except that I can't.) < 1384179685 573942 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm at work < 1384179690 349629 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'll look at it later, if I remember < 1384179838 302666 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1384179869 374325 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384180054 915368 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384180120 44252 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, the most impressive Intercal program I know about is Ørjan's unlambda interpretet ( http://home.nvg.org/~oerjan/esoteric/intercal/ ) < 1384180169 871382 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was pretty mindblowing < 1384180178 35723 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan isn't here right now, but he often hangs out in this channel < 1384180270 329538 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384181267 4882 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He's as much of a fixture here as the channel's actual fixtures." < 1384181277 936180 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess technically speaking the channel has no actual fixtures. < 1384181313 51022 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should we invite chanserv in, so that it has one? < 1384181368 447320 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should invite a lamp < 1384181419 440426 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bot running on the Linux-Apache-MySQL-PHP platform? < 1384181450 179240 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. and while we're at it, a chandelier < 1384181552 762758 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :A... C-Haskell-Apache-Netcat-Django-ELisp-INTERCAL-Erlang-R monstrosity? < 1384181624 586429 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we have to write that < 1384181649 683435 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, one of my first duties at work was to write a program to perform work previously performed by an elisp CGI script that also involved manual intervention) < 1384181656 89921 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I rewrote from scratch in Perl) < 1384181961 490515 :ais523_!93bcc342@gateway/web/freenode/ip.147.188.195.66 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1384182248 726610 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? fixture < 1384182250 583720 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixture? ¯\(°_o)/¯ < 1384182331 439556 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn fixture < 1384182332 314694 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :*** "fixture" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)" < 1384182332 472167 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixture < 1384182332 472334 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : n 1: an object firmly fixed in place (especially in a household) < 1384182334 481664 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2: a regular patron; "an habitue of the racetrack"; "a bum who < 1384182336 473260 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : is a Central Park fixture" [syn: {regular}, {habitue}, < 1384182338 477388 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[7 @more lines] < 1384182348 72794 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: an habitue of the racetrack. < 1384182385 782467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think it's kind of like a hobbit.) < 1384182517 388821 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --help < 1384182520 76813 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: words [-dhNo] [DATASETS...] [NUMBER_OF_WORDS] \ \ options: \ -l, --list list valid datasets \ -d, --debug debugging output \ -N, --dont-normalize don't normalize frequencies when combining \ multiple Markov models; this has the effect \ of making larger dataset < 1384182529 416938 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words -l < 1384182530 974348 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M < 1384182537 403402 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-1M < 1384182540 726441 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrt < 1384182547 668086 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :`words --eng-1M 10 < 1384182550 992934 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :corum clargoint chait loofefl slance exion penfut spassiol unct iistne < 1384182597 907515 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so TOPIC #esoteric :The channel of the chimæric hellos | The most corum, clargoint chait you could ever loofefl your slance in. | Magnus! | Koirammekokaan ei lennä? :( | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1384182785 873090 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird stuff happens with the /töpic, and I still haven't translated «Koirammekokaan ei lennä?» yet. < 1384182940 691517 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can find a discussion on that in the logs. < 1384182968 184020 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If you weren't there at the time.) < 1384183116 876967 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found «""Pystyisiköhän koirammekokaan siihen?"», which satisfies me. < 1384183131 138521 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s"\"\""\"" < 1384183515 684734 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384183646 976060 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does/will even our dog not fly? < 1384183652 698920 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384184013 245930 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The translation I heard was "Not even our dog flies?" < 1384184222 728674 :ski_!~md9slj@remote1.student.chalmers.se NICK :ski < 1384185166 366049 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :nooodl < 1384185320 739203 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384185347 692298 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1384185580 801114 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384185617 696515 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384185660 332482 :Taneb!90208033@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384186095 256112 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384186318 237508 :pregunton1233!ba69dd32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.105.221.50 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384186477 178587 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384186507 321612 :pregunton1233!ba69dd32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.105.221.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, is there any esoteric query language ? < 1384186555 298846 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not aware of any. That could be interesting < 1384186637 765980 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1384186815 188415 :pregunton1233!ba69dd32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.105.221.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric : i speak a little bit of English. If someone has heard about something like that, or better ways to google it....¿? < 1384187618 321345 :mroman!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides SQL? < 1384187718 484468 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384187733 967639 :pregunton1233!ba69dd32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.105.221.50 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384187911 26583 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1384188616 521778 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1384188688 310217 :muskrat!musk@dyn2-212-50-133-105.psoas.suomi.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1384188856 86719 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin_implicit < 1384188859 718959 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1384188863 202748 :shikhin_implicit!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin_EULA < 1384188919 556289 :Taneb!90208033@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.32.128.51 QUIT : < 1384188920 504215 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384188957 933823 :shikhin_EULA!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1384189443 744655 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384189955 445780 :pregunton1233!ba69dd32@gateway/web/freenode/ip.186.105.221.50 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1384190192 11809 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: so did you manage to prove x86 turing complete without registers? < 1384190205 580061 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sure, just use the MMU!" < 1384190473 148380 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks Bike < 1384190474 796110 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, Bike. Thike. < 1384192263 675135 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384192380 858322 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmu mmu mmu ♪ < 1384192447 421161 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`thanks mmu < 1384192448 936992 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, mmu. Thu. < 1384192497 882969 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog muu muu muu < 1384192528 940470 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1384192531 150790 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1384192533 484685 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bin wéyons. < 1384192549 827937 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't beleive there aren't any «muu muu muu» in the logs. < 1384192561 302128 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there are now < 1384192569 67451 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`pastlog muu < 1384192572 925891 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I can believe it < 1384192580 483246 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-02-08.txt:08:48:53: !run printf '%s\n' 'Ääretön omahyväisyys miehet menivät edestakaisin yli maapallolla heidän pikku asioista, seesteinen niiden varmuus niiden imperiumi yli asiasta. On mahdollista, että infusoria mikroskoopilla tekemään samoin.' | hyphenate.fi < 1384192593 40748 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you heathen! < 1384192598 686404 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: you speak Finnish? < 1384192702 154527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not terribly uncommon, here. < 1384192779 304363 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I kinda noticed a slight tendency towards North Germanic languages and Finno-Ugric ones in this fine chännel. < 1384192806 250265 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am fond of english, yes < 1384193054 876700 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you a fondue of English, too? < 1384193071 232277 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that require boiling me alive < 1384193088 595920 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fondues aren't usually boiling, are they? < 1384193095 987838 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to be melted though < 1384193109 990078 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fondues are best when only gently simmering. < 1384193111 533986 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :frankly i think i'm fine in my current collection of phases. < 1384193156 471506 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(♪ new quest ♪ find a nice place with shabushabu) < 1384193180 910930 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you need to break free of your matrix of solidity < 1384193243 797613 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: high leg shabu shabu < 1384193261 874854 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :high leg??? < 1384193338 770237 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :high leg flying shabu-shabu palace, yes. < 1384193416 508696 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles it, and dearly hopes that it's SFW. “I mean, high leg flying? What kind of place is that...”
< 1384193462 552245 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's SFW, as far as anime is SFW < 1384193481 444701 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1384193489 611675 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you even come across what I thought your were referencing < 1384193532 875009 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION round-house fshtucks mrhmouse with a cast-iron fondue pot
< 1384193599 569737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: I think he may have been looking for a restaurant rather than an anime < 1384193601 151413 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :no! I'm lactose intolerant! < 1384193677 167745 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I figured as much, but I felt the need to add to the absurdity of the conversation < 1384193737 899383 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1384193738 55980 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Sojourning" to "Radiance" < 1384193772 649486 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you shall support mrhmouse in his Quest of the Absurd, as he will Shine onto It and express due resplendescence. < 1384193844 699369 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Word of our Absurd Father, fnord < 1384193966 864007 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily < 1384193974 277565 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to package your food < 1384193980 413997 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :motivate me < 1384193982 984104 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the word of fungot, fnord? < 1384193983 397215 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: _and_ a few other people.) cliki-bot was written by a 70's fnord with all that pasta sauce... then they'd use their stack, they are by default hygenic, but can never know which. < 1384194006 450527 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds tricky < 1384194036 937584 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: snow has come to Québec City this last weekend, and should appear on Montréal's surface soon. are you going to let a poor Canadian starve in the cold? < 1384194156 867013 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: fungot, addled be Thy Brain, fnord < 1384194157 152657 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: yes, but nontheless you need to use exec with strings and 32/ 64 variants on ldc and some other stuff. < 1384194313 933806 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: sure. plenty of them. but not you. < 1384194341 102874 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384194356 793946 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384194358 326077 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :il < 1384194372 354097 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, hexchat derp < 1384194399 158401 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384194436 706070 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hexchat, the official client of Hexham? < 1384194454 424141 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aye < 1384194485 508730 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanello. < 1384194631 522729 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is irssi the official client of? < 1384194643 435537 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finlandia. < 1384195328 785606 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.218 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384195805 438417 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1384195938 53087 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know how to make a sequent calculus where numbers that aren't divisible by four are theorems? I have done (while trying to do something else, which turns out to be equivalent). < 1384196006 481457 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why four < 1384196032 127283 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I could have used a different number but I used four. < 1384196043 925257 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1384196066 921707 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :No reason. < 1384196096 416493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :?messages-loud < 1384196096 572839 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc said 7h 28m 52s ago: yes that would help; Rust already has a thing called "syntax extensions" which are invoked the same way as macros but can run arbitrary Rust code, unfortunately you can't < 1384196096 573021 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :define a new one except by editing the compiler < 1384196096 573130 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc said 7h 28m 11s ago: also there are other problems with macros such as, they can't be exported from a compilation unit, and the scoping / module exporting is different from everything else, but < 1384196096 573235 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are seen as bugs to be fixed < 1384196168 89433 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: in your calculus, is 0 divisible for four (strictly checking remainder)? < 1384196256 896016 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*by four. My mind is absent today. < 1384196296 387076 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: Yes; there is no way to prove zero in it. < 1384196320 429180 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I have done is encode the rules for the subtraction game S(1,2,3), which is equivalent. < 1384196428 666324 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have a link for the subtraction game? I'm not familiar with it and a search just turns up math resources for children. < 1384196456 915928 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rules W1, W2, and W3 say that 1, 2, and 3 are axioms; you can win in one turn. Rules T1, T2, and T3 each have three sequents above the line for the three possible opponent's move after one of your moves. < 1384196492 13135 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: Did you try Wikipedia? Look at [[Nim]] < 1384196502 853982 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the subsections describes subtraction game. < 1384196659 650218 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The game isn't so difficult, but it makes the point of encoding in a sequent calculus in order to make theorems which are the numbers that aren't divisible by four. < 1384197509 218773 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an alternative Universe, zzo38 would be a great glassperlenspiele player. < 1384197550 397095 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1384197594 358623 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/(s(?=s)|e\b)// < 1384197641 239114 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a great episode of The Real Hustle about the subtraction game < 1384197647 549465 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to try it < 1384197652 946069 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip someone off big < 1384198398 2809 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today for the first time I encountered a mormon < 1384198400 315869 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1384198406 539375 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to convert me < 1384198481 32358 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, so did I the other day. < 1384198509 202600 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work < 1384198539 294929 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384198540 537527 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1384198552 828797 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: do you feel mormon < 1384198559 343991 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said i should go to mormon.org and it would make me really happy < 1384198563 920812 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't go there until a few seconds ago < 1384198569 333945 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess i did go there < 1384198580 929350 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it work < 1384198588 590392 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm reasonably happy but i'm not sure whether it has to do with mormon.org < 1384198635 966118 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasonably < really < 1384198640 45689 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :false advertising < 1384198651 10252 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :true but i didn't actually read the website < 1384198662 597030 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work if you wget mormon.org < 1384198667 458401 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you send HEAD instead of GET < 1384198684 986976 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm maybe they said www.mormon.org and i didn't use the www < 1384198690 666130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've taken one of their cards < 1384198738 563120 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :aitch tee tee pee colon slash slash doubleyou doubleyou doubleyou dot mormon dot org < 1384198744 178031 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :slash robots dot text < 1384198754 498461 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :dot tee ex tee < 1384198769 101326 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/humans.txt < 1384198769 331294 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384198810 679746 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping for advice on how to visit the site, not just names of dudes and dudettes. < 1384198885 197107 :prooftechnique!~Also@132.198.156.218 QUIT : < 1384199456 307397 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384199474 200714 :Koen_!~Koen@vbo91-6-78-245-243-132.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384199545 586606 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1384199545 805335 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : Selfish doesn't have any repositories you can view. < 1384199547 453845 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1384199610 826142 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf clearly went to the site the wrong way. try AOL keyword "mormon" < 1384199645 403952 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, I splat the languages from the Wisdom PDF into their own chapter. < 1384199690 428055 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisdom probability density function ... nice concept :) < 1384199716 629509 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION gently scuttles away from int-e
< 1384199767 879489 :shikhin_!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1384199795 498795 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1384199797 886432 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: if you haven't read the PDF available in the /topic yet, may I interest you in doing so? the Experience will be Enlightening ↑ < 1384199823 366625 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate statistics. not as much as spiders, but I do. < 1384199846 814493 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :statistics is like a spider: it has 8 legs and it crawls into your mouth while you're sleeping < 1384199850 790664 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, I got nothing against snakes, except when related to a CS book. < 1384199865 541764 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read your TaPL today < 1384199875 294787 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a tapl? < 1384199875 745241 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg i told someone to read TaPL and they did! < 1384199881 411405 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :while sitting in a tent in rainy malaysia < 1384199887 350154 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :types and programming languages < 1384199888 812633 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Types and Programmin' Languages < 1384199912 826821 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a "read" copy in front of me right now in fact, which i will proceed to ignore in favor of writing about plastic models of sulfur hexafluoride < 1384199914 362871 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: were you the one in rainy malaysia, or was it the someone? < 1384199961 956289 :shikhin!~Shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384199965 905292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the someone < 1384200331 241721 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ghc < 1384200331 398554 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duplicate instance declarations < 1384200363 603033 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ghc < 1384200363 759489 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duplicate binding in parallel list comprehension < 1384200393 980379 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ghc < 1384200394 175232 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain just exploded. < 1384200401 13565 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :~yi < 1384200401 170409 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your divination: "Ground" to "Welling" < 1384200846 901529 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384201127 740787 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-28-79.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384201209 763264 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384201294 13383 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384201723 2832 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384201742 814223 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome Oj742 < 1384201745 815021 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​02Oj742: 06Welcome 13to 04the 07international 08hub 09for 02esoteric 06programming 13language 04design 07and 08deployment! 09For 02more 06information, 13check 04out 07our 08wiki: 09. 02(For 06the 13other 04kind 07of 08esoterica, 09try 02#esoteric 06on 13irc.dal.net.) < 1384202156 359336 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1384202247 567028 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384202260 444443 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oj742: NICE JORB < 1384202268 624130 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and nice to meet you finally) < 1384202389 423280 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1384202413 938074 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :`relcome int-e < 1384202416 509914 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​08int-e: 09Welcome 02to 06the 13international 04hub 07for 08esoteric 09programming 02language 06design 13and 04deployment! 07For 08more 09information, 02check 06out 13our 04wiki: 07. 08(For 09the 02other 06kind 13of 04esoterica, 07try 08#esoteric 09on 02irc.dal.net.) < 1384202653 626518 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you know therm? < 1384202673 754168 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384202710 994691 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: how could i not? < 1384202739 182291 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oj742 has the second best warrior on the bfjoust hill right now < 1384202767 719000 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :dat darn omnipotence... < 1384202798 550986 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooh! < 1384202848 529014 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, it was only third best until i made a slight change ... and the next change i make will put it back there... < 1384202872 636042 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1384202922 949971 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i could easily beat omnipotence with space_hotel since omnipotence is hard-coded to beat space_hotel based on its decoy setup. shameless special-casing. but it doesn't bother me that much.) < 1384202968 476744 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bfjoist is something I have no talent for at all < 1384202988 287933 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember when werecatt appeared and suddenly dominated the hill < 1384203054 421041 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell werecatt when do you plan to dominate again? < 1384203054 577528 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384203109 542257 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen werecatt < 1384203114 116327 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lately; try `seen werecatt ever < 1384203116 422059 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen werecatt ever < 1384203132 278842 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1384203138 989627 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen david_werecatt ever < 1384203153 810714 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1384203157 811529 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :foiled. < 1384203158 9131 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1384203203 293171 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think its spelled with only one 't' < 1384203207 961191 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: (x + y) * (a - b) < 1384203228 820273 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :mrhmouse: oui? < 1384203243 591185 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :f.. foiled. I'll show myself out < 1384203293 608798 :doubleaykay!~doubleayk@pool-71-126-231-105.bstnma.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384203297 258607 :doubleaykay!~doubleayk@pool-71-126-231-105.bstnma.east.verizon.net QUIT :Client Quit < 1384203298 347229 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: can you translate from mrhmouse to French? < 1384203298 614105 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: i like do better since it has a language called irp. this eventually made many people on scheme are you using? < 1384203309 925550 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, irp! < 1384203320 650970 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :would someöne please translate mrhmouse for me? < 1384203361 147573 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(meanwhile, there is an intense liquorice taste in my mouth.) < 1384203368 768667 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FOIL means First, Outside, Inside, Last." < 1384203390 763596 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a terrible reference to the operation int-e is referring to < 1384203406 216212 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the order of expansion in expressions with parentheses. (the things one learns when hanging out on math channels...) < 1384203410 885619 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a mnemonic schoolchildren learn < 1384203421 720503 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: did you eat liquorice or do you e.g. have a brain disorder causing you to taste stuff? < 1384203422 334338 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in Germany ;-) < 1384203432 414931 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in French Canada. < 1384203438 986427 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in America < 1384203444 239009 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taught here, but that makes no difference < 1384203469 816185 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: a cow orker likes it, and very sneakily gave me some. I don't have brain disorders. I am sane. < 1384203509 836116 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x + y) * (a - b) = (axe + aye) / e - (box + boy) / o < 1384203560 405230 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION duct tapes mrhmouse and int-e together
< 1384203585 872921 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmpf < 1384203591 660099 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, I like the phrase "cow orker" better than the actual phrase < 1384203603 384901 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: cute. < 1384203612 239727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, nice typo < 1384203649 267986 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Speaking of liquorice, do you like it? What about salty "sweets"? < 1384203650 963959 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't a typo, sadly. I wish I had created it, tho. hth. twh. tdnh. < 1384203665 59755 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, twh? tdnh? < 1384203675 780012 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: don't you dare steer the conversation towards salmiakki and its brethren. < 1384203681 714694 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? twh < 1384203683 741152 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand. < 1384203684 517570 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tdnh < 1384203686 636851 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh does not help < 1384203696 966114 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, what is salmiakki? < 1384203697 650089 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I don't eat the salty kind, only the sweet (and not very often) < 1384203706 207179 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, phew < 1384203724 525438 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not a fan of liquorice. Nor do I like the salty Swedish "sweets" < 1384203746 621192 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salmiakki < 1384203762 881239 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like terva leijona though < 1384203776 893134 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/terva/nepeta/ < 1384203782 435455 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, oh right, saltlakrits, right < 1384203789 989028 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it is terrible stuff < 1384203821 197563 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :“... with tar flavouring.” you guys are completely insane. < 1384203827 838715 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, no idea why anyone would like it, and I live in Sweden, where this stuff is somewhat common < 1384203856 265713 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, I can never remember which options to use to taste it < 1384203865 121138 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it -xf or -cf or what < 1384203887 423307 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, to do what? < 1384203897 273741 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar < 1384203897 430719 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-xf is tar for extracting, -cf is for creation < 1384203905 473560 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: that's finnish btw, it's *them* guys that are insane < 1384203914 438793 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :-cf archive.tar directory-to-tar < 1384203934 690648 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal may or may not have missed the joke < 1384203935 574686 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :radar shows the joke has successfully been destroyed. good work, people. let's go home < 1384203944 579726 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, oh, duh < 1384203946 907016 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1384203983 897722 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe tar means molasses or something? < 1384203988 227627 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm not a fan of liquorice. Nor do I like the salty Swedish "sweets" < 1384203989 932145 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you guys dissing our stuffs? < 1384203990 101787 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :when we want something sweet, nothing beats http://www.recettes.qc.ca/recette/tarte-au-sucre-1168 . four cups of brown sugar! < 1384204003 217279 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, Personally I'm quite fond of 70-90% chocolate though < 1384204005 988769 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: only unedible stuff. < 1384204010 487276 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than 90% is a bit too much < 1384204015 168250 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Incidentally, you can get tar-flavoured ice cream at a couple of restaurants here. < 1384204018 862522 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: nothing less than 90% for me. 99% is the best. < 1384204028 154410 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to show some danes around my school a couple of years ago, they gave us various danish treats afterwards < 1384204028 319646 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure why UNIX spells 'cat' forward and 'rat' backward. < 1384204045 368514 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercultural fternooner exchange! < 1384204047 403650 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were so uniformly horrible that i can only assume they were picked to fuck with the foreigners < 1384204062 211985 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also spells 'cat' backward! < 1384204067 455890 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how there's an 'ar' separate from 'tar' < 1384204074 993819 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ar, but specifically for tapes" < 1384204078 426393 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily, And I like white chocolate at the other end of the spectrum (lets leave the discussion about whether that is chocolate for another time). < 1384204084 749948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much in between though < 1384204100 43269 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ar is for, like, random-access archives < 1384204107 270510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: http://www.ravintolaharald.fi/service.cntum?pageId=145900 "Sweet Endings" "HARALD’S TAR DELIGHT -- Homemade tar ice cream(whose secret recipe is closely guarded by Harald) served with pear compote, cinnamon-caramel sauce and crispy flatbread sticks." < 1384204112 85101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: (It's a kind of terrible touristy place, but I think someone wrote a nice blog post about the ice cream once.) < 1384204115 103756 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I believe they claim it is an acquired taste < 1384204122 585178 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, but I guess that could just be a code name < 1384204126 486236 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is the tar ice cream any good? < 1384204145 379024 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks prices for a ticket to Finlandia...
< 1384204147 432786 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Well, I mean, it's no chocolate. But it wasn't bad either. < 1384204151 355560 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: I believe I've even used 'tac' once or twice ... :) < 1384204162 597689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://susan-stepney.blogspot.fi/2011/06/tar-ice-cream.html there you go. < 1384204172 907742 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384204191 304236 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does tac actually work < 1384204200 93837 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it just store stdin in a buffer or what < 1384204237 176231 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover, I guess it could start from the last argument and then scan backwards, reading a chunk at a time < 1384204241 926650 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the coreutils tac does something more clever if you give it a seekable file. < 1384204245 239969 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: short of time travel, that's about the only thing it can do (on pipes) < 1384204247 10855 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then reverse each chunk < 1384204253 653393 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But buffering is involved for pipes, sure. < 1384204257 262556 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah assuming it is seakable < 1384204271 530706 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: that's how toybox tac does it, at least < 1384204297 965484 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, toybox is a pretty terrible thing though < 1384204299 184890 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are rumors of a seekable pipe from an outer eldritch dimension, that can tac without buffering from the True End of All Inputs. < 1384204312 385675 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, Like a half-arsed busybox clone < 1384204318 954703 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1384204329 205468 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't toybox the one Android uses? < 1384204333 173872 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1384204337 983593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I'd like to see a "tac | head" on that. < 1384204338 781199 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is toolbox < 1384204345 198651 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hm. I have to expect to shell out about two grands to get myself shipped over to the Suomen Tasavalta.) < 1384204348 273282 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GNU 'tac' has a tac_seekable function, which hopefully does something clever :) < 1384204350 143980 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, Oh okay, easy to confuse those < 1384204368 264767 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :toybox is a busybox-like tools by the ex-maintainer of busybox, rob landley < 1384204370 934465 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: That sounds suspiciously expensive. Oh, I guess that's some Canadian fake money? < 1384204375 521786 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :intended to be cleaner version < 1384204379 492055 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1384204390 365422 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, does it still use the kernel config system? < 1384204394 984944 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384204403 910021 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1384204405 937498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough, there are a lot of options I guess < 1384204417 900003 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: our money may be fake, but at least it's well-designed. and it has the Queen of England on it! < 1384204425 359088 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, why it uses it or why I ask? < 1384204436 822354 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Oh yes, I remember hearing it's very colorful. < 1384204447 753549 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: why you asked < 1384204457 941738 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen david_werecat ever < 1384204458 615354 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, not a lot of projects uses it. < 1384204459 651730 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_dollar < 1384204462 983727 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :2013-01-18 02:52:09: Hello < 1384204464 526225 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1384204472 301904 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn that's a long time ago < 1384204475 144643 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox used it last time I built it, too < 1384204476 505187 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`seen aloril ever < 1384204479 715390 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm eager to see the new 5 and 10$! < 1384204486 443705 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, the kernel, busybox, uclibc... That is about it that I know of < 1384204490 439354 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I remember < 1384204513 645768 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've checked the logs btw, aloril_ has been here for over a decade and has never spoken once < 1384204518 919564 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: I think it "only" cost something like a thousand EUR (1.4 kCAD) for me to get to Portland and back, and that's like almost in Canada. < 1384204528 958673 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :("kCAD" is probably a CAD program.) < 1384204538 175674 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, so how does toybox and busybox compare to each other from a feature completeness point of view? < 1384204548 386492 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox has a shit-ton more < 1384204549 590554 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is toybox a drop-in replacement at this point? < 1384204552 687555 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah okay < 1384204554 540080 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1384204555 252762 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: nice. < 1384204574 381773 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, ignoring weird stuff like a built in micro-webserver in busybox? < 1384204586 761663 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still lacks shell < 1384204597 857948 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and df has yet to get '-h' < 1384204598 14444 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, that is kind of major yeah < 1384204607 745487 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I only checked Air Canada, which is far from being the best option out there. < 1384204615 308361 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, what about color options to ls? I can't remember if busybox has that < 1384204624 572829 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1384204638 849408 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah it does < 1384204641 479581 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :busybox has it, toybox does too < 1384204652 483854 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: Also I guess you can always mail yourself in a box? < 1384204652 640461 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, that makes it so much easier to work with < 1384204653 281073 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION orks boily's cows
< 1384204671 807940 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, what about binary sizes when built for equal features? < 1384204686 828702 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, no idea < 1384204697 449077 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here ever use mpmath in python? < 1384204698 831368 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh well, I guess I'll keep an eye on it though < 1384204705 744218 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384204706 567868 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could. I quintopia'd a box of cookies, and I'm marginally heavier than that, so I have experience. < 1384204716 200602 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, sounds interesting, what does it do? < 1384204726 205781 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for my current config busybox is 512kB and toybox is 136kB < 1384204736 485612 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: checking prices on hotwire cuts the amount by half. < 1384204745 98786 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: arbitrary precision complex-valued math < 1384204764 660790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, oh, so not MP as in multi *processor* < 1384204771 103929 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not so interested any more, sorry < 1384204773 105694 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384204784 431670 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of boily being only slightly heavier than a box of maple leaf cookies < 1384204794 992995 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :psh, what's the point without quaternions < 1384204820 296648 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to learn quaternions at some point < 1384204835 680783 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :here let me teach you < 1384204842 536078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay...? < 1384204856 312270 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I suggest you try it on some linux system you are comfortable hacking with. currently I'm running it on my main system and sometimes encounter stuff that blows up due to GNUisms < 1384204891 147354 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i²=j²=k²=ijk=-1 < 1384204892 541504 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, well I doubt I will ever switch from GNU Bash as my interactive shell. I'm just to used to it's features and quirks < 1384204895 834834 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you know quaternions < 1384204908 441905 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia, yeah that about covers it :P < 1384204911 887014 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. I'm also running non-toybox shell < 1384204925 121864 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the current toybox shell is, to put it kindly, shit < 1384204929 83040 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, and tools for that matter < 1384204932 155579 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mksh, ftw) < 1384204944 299328 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, I use weird non-standard options to tools out of convenience < 1384204949 886693 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1384204987 939212 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in that case, continue on with your gnu coreutils < 1384204990 198478 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, when I look at map 1p grep I get scared. There is no -L for example for files without matches. Something I used like 5 minutes ago < 1384205001 332391 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/map/man/ < 1384205031 646453 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, interesting. my grep manpage is from sbase < 1384205040 413134 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :man 1p not man 1 < 1384205043 270584 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean < 1384205047 339184 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reminds itself to fix manpages sometime
< 1384205050 483694 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, anyway on a modern system, the extra bloat in gnu coreutils doesn't really matter < 1384205053 24084 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :map map map ♪ < 1384205077 132089 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean that my grep(1)'s manpage is from suckless' sbase collection < 1384205086 361299 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 16 GB RAM. I'm not going to run out just because true has a --help and a --version! < 1384205093 922869 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, true < 1384205114 433040 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also this computer has like 4.5 TB storage in total, though a bit of that is tied up into RAID < 1384205117 995411 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, on the other hand, still have in active use a machine with 1MB of RAM < 1384205125 403128 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is just the internal storage < 1384205144 523811 :nortti!~juhani@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 30GB HD, 20% used < 1384205146 670658 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1384205155 564574 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll: should i take a class in electric circuits, or a class in microcontrollers < 1384205159 236260 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nortti, The least advanced system I have that i actually use is my RPi. Coreutils run fine there too with 512 MB RAM < 1384205160 803083 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :every page held up by the help text for true is a page that isn't used caching all that data < 1384205195 233505 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, XD < 1384205206 7586 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: can you give me more info about the μC class, syllabus or list of materials or such < 1384205212 455193 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you're sufficiently lucky that the help text is in all separate pages that don't get loaded from disk (and don't have relocations, etc) < 1384205218 238045 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me see. < 1384205234 76680 :boily!~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net QUIT :Quit: TRIPLE CHICKEN FAULT! < 1384205236 193245 :metasepia!~metasepia@2607:fad8:4:6:f2de:f1ff:fe6c:6765 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384205238 504267 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :μC programin' is extremely easy to pick up on your own, since it's now a huge hobby field with lots of resources for everyone including total tech beginners < 1384205267 880465 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think a lot of college μC classes have a "party like it's 1985" vibe < 1384205275 302956 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. < 1384205275 634933 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I get similar read speed "experience" with my 2x 1 TB in RAID 1 at home to my insane 250 GB Intel 520 SSD at work. Both are just too fast for me to notice. < 1384205279 550347 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming weird chips in assembly because that's what we did back in the day, damnit < 1384205289 431879 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which... could be fun, but is mostly a slog ime < 1384205302 855381 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of switching to a track that would make me take both classes, so eh < 1384205307 562579 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, neat < 1384205318 255379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, electric circuits could be fun < 1384205325 82533 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hey, the syllabus is online. < 1384205339 242409 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: don't most shells have true and false built in anyway? < 1384205356 718472 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISAs, serial communication, writing efficient code, timing, async/interrupts, blablablabla < 1384205364 827714 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh there is a HUGE gap between hobby arduino stuff and the kind of EE you need to know if you want to design a cheap tiny robust power-efficient mass-producable device < 1384205367 939319 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Discuss the central components of Microchip MIPS32 RISC microcontrollers" so that gives an idea of materials < 1384205382 807302 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mips weird 1985? < 1384205383 468012 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, anyway echo $(( $(du -b /bin/true) / 1024 )) < 1384205383 679687 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: 22880 /bin/true / 1024 : division by 0 (error token is "/true / 1024 ") < 1384205388 886199 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is funny < 1384205394 127054 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused
< 1384205398 819145 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Operate and control a basic robotic car" oh ho ho. < 1384205402 365359 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :neh < 1384205403 981891 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh* < 1384205424 744995 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :True is pretty big though, 4 pages in total < 1384205426 815086 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at least the MIPS architecture is simple and elegant and has free C compilers < 1384205428 418063 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Required textbooks: None" i really like the EE department's style < 1384205443 645254 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :27080 bytes here, excessive :/ < 1384205446 467007 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, AVR is pretty common these days < 1384205461 419057 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, 22880 for me < 1384205465 355367 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno if the peripheral parts of the Microchip ones are nice or not < 1384205466 226767 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So somewhat less < 1384205470 736932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: for college classes? that's good < 1384205487 256097 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, 4 pages? Yeah ;P < 1384205488 229867 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :our infamous intro microcontrollers class used a custom board with an 80186 and a load of other chips on it < 1384205496 758474 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :required materials... chip is from a local supplier i've liked so far, basic lights and switches... ooh, a stereo amp... bluetooth... robotics kit < 1384205498 431065 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 pages what? < 1384205498 587758 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: 22880 is more like 6 pages < 1384205501 538066 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I meant memory pages for /bin/true < 1384205525 324097 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we used the 80186 because they bought a barrel of them back in 1985 and were still using them up < 1384205532 851277 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like the compiler is this thing http://www.microchip.com/pagehandler/en_us/devtools/mplabxc/ < 1384205536 6460 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MIT uses the 8051? not sure tho < 1384205550 368262 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously i should write a rustc backend for my robocar < 1384205553 865410 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, hm, I did du /bin/true, which is 512 byte blocks, which is 24. Divided by 2 is 12. Divided by 4 (For 4k) is... 3 actually < 1384205568 428982 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, who is right? < 1384205575 498423 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :80186 is obscure enough that most of the time when I googled for resources, I found only the website for the course I was taking :( < 1384205596 42889 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, damn. < 1384205600 812276 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I'm right, obviously < 1384205611 319121 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, where is my math wrong then? < 1384205615 877216 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, 80186? Is that like their second CPU? < 1384205616 90606 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should check the professor to make sure he's not the anti masonic guy < 1384205636 140922 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: the assumption that du uses 512 byte blocks < 1384205649 367107 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, pretty sure it does? I remember reading that some time ago < 1384205664 37298 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1384205666 43796 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: no, there was the 4004 and the 8008 and the 8080 and the 8086/8088 and maybe others < 1384205670 447498 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :q Display values are in units of the first available SIZE from --block-size, and the DU_BLOCK_SIZE, BLOCK_SIZE and BLOCKSIZE environment variables. Otherwise, units default to 1024 bytes < 1384205670 604228 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : (or 512 if POSIXLY_CORRECT is set). < 1384205670 604434 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1384205678 330646 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1384205684 175172 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :first intel processor ever was for some japanese calculator < 1384205688 172040 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, So I was correct under POSIX < 1384205717 596296 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 80186 was an attempt to turn the 8086 into a microcontroller but not really in the modern sense, it still needs external ROM and RAM and loads of other stuff < 1384205725 731089 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: but that's a small excuse for not noting that 512*24 is quite far from 22880 :) < 1384205735 47144 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wolverine.caltech.edu/eecs51/kits/kit51ins.htm < 1384205736 132123 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384205740 747009 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This course covers a wide spectrum of software testing techniques for traditional and object-oriented languages" < 1384205747 269225 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e, I'm better at math with letters than math with actual digits? Kay? < 1384205761 54273 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: ok. < 1384205785 596075 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Software Testing: A Craftsman’s Approach" they've infilitrated the textbooks! < 1384205793 14799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1384205806 902137 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, eeww. That sounds like the opposite of quickcheck < 1384205823 667292 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The biggest change comes in the growing prominence and acceptance of Agile Programming." < 1384205831 709985 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is of course the best testing technology that I know of currently < 1384205847 811253 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1384205862 447850 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, anyway, i'm not taking that class, just thought that was amusing. < 1384205882 850323 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :blatantly gendered language? in my CS textbook? it's more likely than you think < 1384205893 862356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our DSP assembly course had what I think was quite a "90s" vibe when it came to hardware it ran on (a TI TMS320C54x devkit, some fancy 56K audio box with knobs, and some AD SHARC thing). < 1384205900 853855 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey, i didn't even notice, you're right. < 1384205928 741514 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ... gender ... "middle person attack" sounds awful, imho. < 1384205964 755822 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, gendered? How do you mean? < 1384205972 836903 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"craftsman" < 1384206005 584739 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally don't accept it when men say "but it's just TOO HARD to come up with better words" < 1384206016 871364 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1384206018 542841 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :crafter < 1384206029 761109 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :craftsperson? < 1384206040 548849 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mega craftinator z < 1384206049 307191 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crafty cat < 1384206066 34752 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the uses of "craftsman" in startupland are meaningless pompous marketing fluff so they should probably be excised alltogether < 1384206075 818787 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Craftsman is a common word though. While I would agree that it would be a bad *new* word to be created. I don't really care about existing words. < 1384206078 86342 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Software Testing: Mega Craftinator Z's Approach" has a certain ring to it. < 1384206089 695410 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, that I can agree on though < 1384206097 562213 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy being an engineer, being an engineer is awesome, I don't need to pretend I'm a rockstar or a painter or a craftsman instead < 1384206107 518592 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite < 1384206129 953451 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Though being a Rockstar painter crafting engineer would be awesome < 1384206135 173737 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :why be any of those things when you can be MEGA CRAFTINATOR Z? < 1384206162 694644 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mega craftinator z is formed when rockstar blue, painter red, crafter yellow, and engineer pink combine, that's why < 1384206162 851165 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal, int-e: I think it's very hard for men to empathize with what it's like to be a woman in programming and receive tiny (usually unintentional) signals every day that say you are abnormal and you aren't a Real Programmer etc < 1384206175 227570 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is my opinion after listening to lots of women describe their experiences in the field < 1384206180 393909 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, hm < 1384206187 238230 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Which one of them forms the head? < 1384206187 405756 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, not all women feel this way < 1384206199 352301 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Craftman has nothing to do with programming though, as you just said. < 1384206201 332426 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can fix the language to make some people more welcome, without really hurting anyone else, why not do it? < 1384206209 611519 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: we were talking about the title of a software book.......... < 1384206216 18385 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, but should we change the word "human" just because it contains "man"? < 1384206217 216786 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more generally about the term's (mis)use in programming < 1384206242 542626 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a bit silly to say "well I don't care" when you're included in "craftsman" < 1384206242 698913 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, obviously. < 1384206242 699023 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i haven't taken my class in megacontrollers yet, couldn't tell you :( < 1384206243 279931 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish has the same issue, "människa" = human "män" = men < 1384206245 956109 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: maybe eventually? but we have to start somewhere < 1384206257 48767 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's a bit of a slippery slope fallacy you're making < 1384206263 581467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest "humoid", just because "humoid resources" sounds good. < 1384206270 367282 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: you might want to read http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html < 1384206284 53895 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha i was just going to link that. < 1384206310 725556 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, no, I'm very much against creating *new* words like "craftman". But I also find it silly to keep changing an existing language unless there is more than a few people who complain about it < 1384206313 7157 :mrhmouse!~jordan.br@firewall1.photobooks.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1384206319 439048 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are TONS of people who complain about this < 1384206322 70822 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't listening to them < 1384206323 72222 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, 'human' is etymologically not related to 'man'. < 1384206328 383351 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, also I read that < 1384206347 279146 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, oh? Interesting. How does it work out then? < 1384206363 54882 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :'human' is from 'homo', 'man' is from germanic 'mann' or something < 1384206368 682607 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1384206369 378450 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's amazing how people will claim that biased language doesn't matter and yet fight really hard to keep it < 1384206372 10740 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of english's general half french thing. < 1384206372 454564 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you care so much < 1384206385 30537 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if some people dislike this word, and by your own admission it's silly to care, then just let them win < 1384206414 25529 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: and what did you think of the essay? < 1384206447 892954 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it a couple of years ago. Yes it has a point. But, kmc, I think creating neologisms all over the place just lead to unnecessary and pointless confusion. < 1384206460 894240 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your basis for claiming it's confusing, at all? < 1384206472 813660 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :who will be confused if I say "craftsperson" or "maker" or "artisan" or any of 10 other synonyms instead of "crafstman" < 1384206505 459227 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Developer makes me think of photography or hair < 1384206505 653312 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, try replacing "man" with "person" or similar in all words like "craftsman" for a week in all speech and writing and see if people don't get confused < 1384206522 534145 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, "artisan" or "maker" would work yes < 1384206526 3130 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I have been doing this for years < 1384206527 794229 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :craftsperson would not < 1384206530 235222 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: not a single person has ever been confused < 1384206534 547773 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, interesting. Hm < 1384206542 958760 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then I might be wrong I guess. < 1384206547 366231 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :another interesting etymology fact: < 1384206559 811944 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin "habere", "to have", is cognate to english "give", not english "have" < 1384206575 307025 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-136.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1384206575 463563 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's cool how I had this same exact argument with the JavascriptMVC people like a year ago and they gave me all of the standard bingo-card excuses not to change it and then they finally fixed it after a whole year < 1384206578 511312 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :latin "capere", "to take", *is* cognate to english "have". < 1384206584 913328 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, that sounds implausible. How does that work out? < 1384206596 721723 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the DM's telling me off for derailing the adventure and we haven't actually started yet < 1384206610 265188 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-136.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1384206610 430089 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384206624 431456 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I don't think I will take any personal action regarding it though, I simply don't care enough about the issue. < 1384206630 381482 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: then you're just a dick < 1384206634 189192 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the cost to you < 1384206672 275537 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, Having to keep remembering to do it all the time, scan the phrases ahead and so on. < 1384206682 990974 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"habere" and "give" are from PIE *gʰabʰ- < 1384206687 180507 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :"capere" and "have" from *keh₂p- < 1384206719 283700 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also cool: "Since there is no common Indo-European root for a transitive possessive verb have (notice that Latin "habeo" is not related to English "have"), Proto-Indo-European probably lacked the have structure. Instead, the third person forms of be were used, with the possessor in dative case, cf. Latin mihi est / sunt, literally to me is / are." < 1384206719 499424 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's a lot harder than having to think before you speak? being anything other than a middle-class white man in programming < 1384206722 898439 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider this a small tax < 1384206728 779468 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :towards a better, more fair world < 1384206776 141426 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that thinking before I speak has all kinds of benefits.... < 1384206781 817888 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, and I personally don't know anyone who is bothered by it, neither male nor female. I know a woman who I remember saying pretty much "whatever" in a discussion about this. < 1384206793 319981 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow ONE WOMAN ONE TIME TOLD ME IT WAS OK < 1384206798 997278 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pack it up, feminism is solved < 1384206810 475301 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, oh come on, strawmans aren't cool < 1384206822 983569 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry "strawpersons" < 1384206823 620990 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: perhaps your attitude towards these things has some selection effect on the people you know? < 1384206846 59641 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know lots of people who do care < 1384206855 360068 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, maybe? *Shrug*. I'm nice towards people of either gender I hope. But I couldn't give a damn about the language itself. < 1384206856 543308 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: it's not really a straw argument, given that "i haven't checked but nobody seems to care so stop caring" was your actual argument. < 1384206864 259223 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps the fact that I don't dismiss their experiences just for being different of mine has something to do with the fact that they continue to talk to me < 1384206889 557279 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, I didn't tell kmc to stop caring. I just said I didn't care myself because nobody around me in "real life" has seemed to care at all. < 1384206894 6777 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384206896 330153 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I said that makes you a jerk < 1384206900 405880 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're ok with that, we can move on < 1384206926 533175 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: i don't think it's reasonable to assume that they'd tell you if they did care < 1384206950 690936 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc, I think that saying that makes me a jerk is a bit much. I make a point of *not* laughing at sexist jokes nor of course telling them. Even in an all male company. < 1384206954 797061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stuff like that. < 1384206961 274798 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they might expect you to respond defensively, as you did to kmc < 1384206979 893045 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you make a point of not telling sexist jokes even when you could get away with it < 1384206982 744046 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold star for you < 1384206983 419136 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes there are obviously bigger jerks and this is not the most important issue in the world < 1384206994 638079 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with "craftsman" if you use it to mean "craftsperson" < 1384206997 731102 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande, not to an actual woman saying that no. < 1384207001 868286 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would carry some weight. < 1384207009 415453 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1384207011 614609 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384207021 677761 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, Well argue that with kmc. I'm out. I need to sleep < 1384207028 145412 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night Vorpal < 1384207038 359991 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl, see above? < 1384207054 427284 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION logreads
< 1384207062 733092 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: obviously if you want citations of women who care it's easy to find many. also sexism hurts men too. < 1384207120 809461 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: the crux of it is … I think it's very hard for men to empathize with what it's like to be a woman in programming and receive tiny (usually unintentional) signals every day that say you are abnormal and you aren't a Real Programmer etc < 1384207213 646745 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: anyway if you sometimes slip up and say something like "craftsman" it's not a huge deal, but you should avoid it if you notice yourself doing it, and accept it graciously when people point out the mistake < 1384207219 501982 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1384207256 926849 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think people get defensive because there's an implication that if you call someone out on behavior you are saying they're a horrible malicious sexist as a personality trait < 1384207260 289062 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not how it works < 1384207273 208477 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexism is malware, we all get some of it from growing up in a patriarchal society < 1384207276 162991 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :we help each other get rid of it < 1384207283 829293 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1384207295 345351 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't expect to see this discussion here < 1384207306 277037 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi quintopia < 1384207330 579454 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing with "man" to me is, in certain contexts, like "craftsman", it's plain obvious that people aren't REALLY talking about just male people < 1384207331 83964 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still working on how to make the preceding point without tone-policing
< 1384207341 364927 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: intent isn't everything < 1384207350 163010 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: did you read http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html < 1384207409 644475 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: was about to link to that < 1384207428 875101 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did when I had the same conversation with Vorpal that I'm about to have with nooodl < 1384207435 592882 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I might fuck off instead < 1384207440 477475 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm wondering where i saw it first. maybe it was in his book on translation < 1384207450 195070 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it from shachaf, I'm pretty sure < 1384207478 454136 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not, like, a perfect analogy, but it goes a long way imo < 1384207482 595027 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of agree with nooodl here. i understand the stewardess/steward -> flight attendant thing since in that case, the terms are definitively gendered, but "man" meant "human" before it meant "male human", and i don't mind saying "craftsmanship" or "workmanship" if i'm not around someone who hasn't explicitly told me it offends them < 1384207499 289975 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really matter what a word meant thousands of years ago < 1384207506 571284 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it matters what thoughts and feelings it produces in someone hearing it today < 1384207521 958477 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't mind making sexist jokes unless i'm around someone who's told me it offends them < 1384207534 632097 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: do we s/MITM/PITM/ < 1384207546 112917 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1384207556 478668 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with malcolm?? < 1384207562 355764 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :most folk i know don't get a feeling of offense from the word "craftsmanship". if i knew someone who did, i wouldn't. same with a lot of other things. < 1384207571 856422 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: I went over that with Vorpal too < 1384207574 472247 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :carol is the attacker. clearly a great step forward for feminism. < 1384207586 264492 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's specific to these words though, because the connotation in them isn't obvious < 1384207591 4032 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: how do you know what other people feel? < 1384207592 894572 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :other words it is < 1384207596 977302 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I really hate the word "offended" because people totally lose their shit whenever it comes up < 1384207604 571189 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's talk about, are you HURTING people < 1384207607 211862 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck do you mean it's not obvious, it says "man" right there < 1384207608 510950 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether or not you intended to < 1384207609 825510 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: yeah "offended" is dumb < 1384207611 145171 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe only a little < 1384207615 505466 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, maybe it would be better if all women magically stopped noticing gendered language < 1384207620 457666 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some irrelevant sci fi scenario < 1384207627 642932 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not their responsibility to fix the system < 1384207629 444015 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine. use that word. s/offense/hurt/ < 1384207645 21550 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1384207678 106030 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know what people feel because they are my friends and i pay attention to them and care about them < 1384207707 153853 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can see that my friends are happy when i say they have displayed quality craftsmanship regardless of gender < 1384207724 516512 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fine that your friends don't mind < 1384207732 54733 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo this shouldn't be a matter of audience < 1384207747 937082 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of things I personally don't mind, which I still wouldn't subject random people to < 1384207772 71497 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't interact with random people too much. i'm more careful around strangers. < 1384207774 668518 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just, look, can't you step back and say, ok, this is a small thing and i'm going to say i "don't care" about it while arguing, maybe i can just step back and consider why other people are arguing versus why i'm arguing < 1384207793 217161 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they have friends who it bothers? whooooo knooooows < 1384207795 11547 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean. i have friends i can call "assholes" jokingly, but that doesn't make that an alright word to use anywhere! < 1384207797 464086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1384207804 442340 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf. what is up. < 1384207824 465416 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :people mentioned me, hi people < 1384207841 71240 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :asshole has a clear negative connotation. i am against using words with clear negative connotations without good reason around strangers < 1384207845 165477 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello shachaf < 1384207870 334417 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi shachaf what do < 1384207886 366777 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's not like this is some sort of purity question where you're a terrible person if you ever use language that could be construed as non-gender-neutral < 1384207960 370513 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe since women are only 15% of programmers and only 1.5% of open source contributors and leave the field at more than twice the rate of men, we could try being extra careful and welcoming even if a lot of them don't really care < 1384207964 379565 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a thought < 1384207965 264725 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't cost much < 1384208000 638661 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and certainly some instances of gendered language (e.g. MITM) are much harder to get rid of than others < 1384208005 714505 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1384208011 229855 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still say MITM < 1384208018 784875 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't claim to be perfect or anything < 1384208020 93122 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in general it's desirable to use less gendered language < 1384208021 917275 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mouse in the middle :) < 1384208022 909834 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of want "man" to mean what it once did again. i want to live in a world where everyone you respect is "ser" regardless of gender. at the very least i want to gender-neutralize language without having to add more syllables. < 1384208033 847265 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you fucking don't, deal with it. < 1384208050 69901 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to deal with it by moving towards that < 1384208054 602805 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me how < 1384208066 421404 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :give up on the man thing. it's pointless. nobody cares about syllable counting. < 1384208068 694674 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're not willing to add one more syllable every time you say "craftsmen" (which is, how often?) < 1384208074 339094 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: do you always use 'they' instead of 'he' or 'she'? < 1384208120 669521 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i don't know gender yeah. except when specifying a hypothetical person in formal writing, in which case i alternate between the two gendered pronouns < 1384208135 167933 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do journals etc. not accept singular "they"? < 1384208148 820696 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1384208150 357897 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: 'they'ing everybody would move you towards the world you describe < 1384208173 660659 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to be honest here: it took me two entire paragraphs of http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~evans/cs655/readings/purity.html before i "got it" < 1384208182 518820 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(regardless of whether you know gender) < 1384208183 982984 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do my formal writing for the example of high school students, and singular they is not accepted grammar yet. it's a survival adaptation for my job. < 1384208190 786114 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fair, I think < 1384208218 368196 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: tangent: where are you from? < 1384208230 70218 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :belgium. native dutch speaker < 1384208258 976740 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: singular they has a long history in english, goddammit < 1384208260 723724 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been wondering how much of "getting it" is based on being american, is all. < 1384208272 382914 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande: some people prefer specific pronouns and request they be used. i would be moving away from the spirit of wanting the world i describe if i imposed pronouns on people that didn't want them < 1384208292 547200 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande: but they don't have a long history in style books < 1384208296 55520 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: have you ever met someone who objected to being described as "they"? < 1384208353 641552 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably was. i sorta glossed over the "-white" words thinking "oh this must be some obscure english thing i've never heard about". now that i carefully look at the list it's really obvious... < 1384208358 554097 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande: upon asking, i have never met someone who specifically requested, and i am trying to always ask < 1384208371 948844 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :*requested "they" < 1384208397 199066 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have met people whose preferred pronoun is 'they' < 1384208410 458206 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also people with lots of other preferred pronouns, but they were all okay with being called 'they' < 1384208419 134380 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is much easier than keeping track of neologisms < 1384208491 713086 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly i think i'd feel awkward using neologism pronouns for someone... never had to, though < 1384208517 43715 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know someone whose preferred pronoun is 'it' < 1384208535 547188 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used to know someone who preferred 'it' too, it was definitely awkward for me < 1384208540 214934 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously using them is the respectful thing to do and isn't a huge effort to get used to using pronoun x, but it'd never stop sounding weird to me < 1384208543 619554 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :referring to them that way around people who don't know them risks causing actual confusion, i think < 1384208552 583092 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are fine with 'they' so that's easy < 1384208562 393450 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 'it' is a very bad idea... < 1384208566 289818 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit awkward to use 'it' as a third person pronoun < 1384208608 743698 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the irony of the "women would tell me if they care!" response is that women who speak up are often ignored or worse, and it's only when a man says the same thing that people take it seriously < 1384208613 282553 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to me, mainly because "it's" is so commonly used.) < 1384208632 785953 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what to do about the fact that most of the thinking i'm familiar with on this issue is quite anglocentric < 1384208698 214410 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384208713 403882 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english it's actually feasible to use 'they' for everything, but in some other languages it's a right mess < 1384208733 674086 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo everyone switch to finnish < 1384208740 663527 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :_o/ < 1384208740 976749 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69 | < 1384208741 133159 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e PRIVMSG #esoteric :69/< < 1384208752 383940 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexande, that's what they want you to think < 1384208759 970345 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have to use "he" in dutch :/ < 1384208777 22204 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :also in french plural "they" is gendered!! an even bigger mess < 1384208779 824963 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have our fair share of gendered words, but at least the third-person singular pronoun problem is fixed. < 1384208816 782668 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :E.g. lawyer is "lakimies" (lit. lawman) and I don't know if there's really a good, accepted alternative. < 1384208834 176720 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly "juristi", but that's kinda loanwordy. < 1384208845 145994 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i laughed at the image of fizzie making that expression, thanks myndzi < 1384208849 920828 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also might have slight differences in meaning? I don't know, I'm no lawman.) < 1384208869 27751 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :are women lawyers also referred to as "lakimies"? < 1384208894 985086 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1384208960 878302 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384208971 966343 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :do many of them mind? < 1384209080 551203 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the weird thing about this william satire thing is that the examples actually work...the usages of "white" he cites /are/ race-inclusive. if i lived in his world, i would probably be won over by some of his arguments. < 1384209082 58597 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know that a nonzero fraction do. But I'm not aware of much of a movement to get rid of that particular term, for some reason. < 1384209126 242311 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently "juristi" *is* being used increasingly as the replacement. < 1384209133 970991 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: same tangent: where are you from? < 1384209145 537393 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: are you white by any chance? < 1384209175 971182 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :u.s. and yes < 1384209182 723035 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy for white men to claim (and even believe) that we "don't see race and gender" because we don't need to for survival... the whole western world is already set up to see us as the default kind of human being < 1384209201 383217 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf. Vorpal < 1384209222 246241 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i recall that referring to Carla del Ponte (sometime prosecutor of the UN ICTY and ICTR) as "la procureuse" instead of "le procureur" in french was considered a statement in the direction of feminism < 1384209246 478906 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1384209257 464050 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the opposite of how it would be seen in english < 1384209299 675794 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's fine... cultural context influences language connotations, film at 11 < 1384209305 843371 :lexande!arapp@terpsichore.ugcs.caltech.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, i remember someone remarking on this irony < 1384209329 343799 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how every curse word in Spanish varies between mild G-rated teasing and horribly offensive depending on where you are in Latin America < 1384209342 856605 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384209427 151500 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ok, i've thought about it, and i'm just going to say i have no coherent response to "yeah i'm ok with calling bosses white and workers black". < 1384209457 291309 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :German is going the same way, unfortunately (I had to stop a while to realise that most of my objections to gender-neutral language are actually based on the mockery they make of it in German (Putting an emphasis on distinguishing between male and female forms first, and then torturing the grammar by combining "Foo" and "Fooin" into "FooInnen", that'd be something like "waiterEsses" in english ... horrible.).) < 1384209483 211837 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION -> breakfast buffet
< 1384209485 653196 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ttyl all < 1384209494 62290 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :breakfast??? < 1384209495 402673 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god what time zone are you in < 1384209499 26496 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i can't claim that i don't see race and gender. sometimes i must work to ignore it. < 1384209502 387187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@localtime kmc < 1384209503 222251 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Local time for kmc is Mon Nov 11 14:38:22 2013 < 1384209503 707810 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he's in japan? < 1384209506 783975 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :korea < 1384209509 722001 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1384209515 5716 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found a quote by Hofstadter here, http://people.mills.edu/spertus/Gender/pap/node21.html (look for "This is not progress") which rings true to me. < 1384209518 121612 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: You got it wrong! < 1384209521 147660 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think.) < 1384209527 371522 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :my VPS is still in America/Los_Angeles < 1384209529 222294 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is why i can't get a bouncer. it's dishonest < 1384209537 368995 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if i was on the moon. nobody would know < 1384209542 801436 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1384209549 563746 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run TZ=Asia/Seoul date < 1384209551 87816 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tue Nov 12 07:39:10 KST 2013 < 1384209566 895651 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: You should get a separate bouncer located in every place you might ever be. < 1384209600 637168 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i knew i had a reason for wanting a network of satellites < 1384209605 499284 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: nice page < 1384209614 311412 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 QUIT :Quit: Heading west for pizza < 1384209626 548706 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384209631 4603 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384209637 875259 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is unknown in what way Man used to make love, when he was a primitive savage millions of years ago" lol < 1384209655 701854 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384209660 796956 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.65.189 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384209815 356711 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if that's old enough to be "make love" as in romancin', or fucking < 1384209857 716115 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking++ < 1384209876 58656 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma fucking < 1384209876 215900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking has a karma of 1 < 1384209881 342264 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must've been the first. < 1384209888 5583 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or else there's a delicate balance.) < 1384209911 662341 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or did that thing pick up postfix increment/decrement? I forget.) < 1384209992 960796 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma c < 1384209993 157331 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :c has a karma of 1 < 1384209996 490556 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it didn't :) < 1384210011 557546 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that specialcased < 1384210095 150559 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It did. < 1384210102 900264 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You run lambdabot! You should know better! < 1384210104 406940 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are so many karma subsystems, it's hard to keep track. < 1384210122 208413 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I'm concerned you should get rid of the special case. < 1384210127 291552 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also make me an admin. < 1384210136 149593 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma c/c < 1384210136 305659 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/c has a karma of 582 < 1384210202 686097 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf shall be appointed Karma Czar < 1384210203 552245 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I misparsed the question. I thought it was about handling foo++ as a post-increment ... looking again, I don't know why. < 1384210222 776787 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma foo < 1384210222 933733 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo has a karma of 3 < 1384210223 357426 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ha ha. < 1384210235 571305 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ c < 1384210235 727724 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :c's karma raised to 2. < 1384210240 773528 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: It was. < 1384210282 396361 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: post-fix- != post-. < 1384210305 157512 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never mind. < 1384210338 608029 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1384210370 709881 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently, mentioning C++ no longer reduces one's karma (it did that for a while when karma was new) :) < 1384210401 728205 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384210444 88805 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu QUIT :Quit: Reconnecting < 1384210457 753708 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384210493 699802 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you had to give away your own karma to ++ somebody? < 1384210512 952848 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: No, that was java. < 1384210514 841397 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1384210514 997746 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf's karma lowered to 65. < 1384210516 6476 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl_: no, C++ was special-cased :) < 1384210520 986699 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be removed. < 1384210545 125633 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma- java < 1384210545 282184 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :java's karma lowered to -5. < 1384210549 47118 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma+ java < 1384210549 203430 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl_'s karma lowered to -1. < 1384210555 758900 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might change it to PHP ;-) < 1384210558 808582 :nooodl_!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :nooodl < 1384210562 76929 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice _ shield there < 1384210567 887757 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl_ ++ < 1384210573 703739 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, nooodl_++ < 1384210574 359479 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sighs.
< 1384210578 692001 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nooodl_ < 1384210578 885594 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl_ has a karma of 0 < 1384210585 98262 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :@karma nooodl < 1384210585 255057 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a karma of 1 < 1384210588 406167 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :how'd THAT happen < 1384210592 911698 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :y'all are totally ruining the integrity of the karma system. < 1384210599 882814 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hahaha < 1384210645 150003 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in my day, when snobol had a karma of twelve it fucking MEANT something < 1384210661 736840 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, there's a "'s karma unchanged at " message ... < 1384210717 465957 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: At least you track karma by making good old-fashioned subjective value judgements and not just picking up on keywords. < 1384210717 661167 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and its very easily done. < 1384210734 205439 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Well, be fair, not every bot is so AI-complete. < 1384210734 419354 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it shouldn't contain at all, actually. it produces com files for pete's sake!!! fnord style transformation sequence fnord < 1384210744 990781 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fungot how i love thee < 1384210745 225918 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: change that to a struct foo*, it becomes the new seed < 1384210768 408965 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good advice. < 1384210795 409233 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :was fungot just talking about a magical girl whose transformation sequence involves com files < 1384210795 565519 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: what do you mean < 1384210803 280810 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, fungot, that that rules < 1384210803 449026 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: fnord ( 0x0001) at fnord < 1384210847 341143 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's some kind of an error message. < 1384210857 149373 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: yeah, maybe all the characters could be virus themed. i like it. you a good writer, ever considered submitting something to a studio? < 1384210857 314232 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: like i said, < 1384210868 590360 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it belongs into the "this will never happen" category. < 1384210906 144424 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i missed it. < 1384210906 354352 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: maybe i don't understand how to do any sort of type containing a type: in haskell, < 1384210913 323607 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384210916 963787 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't either, man. < 1384210927 81771 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's, of course, crucial if you want to submit some writing. < 1384210971 988793 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot has high standards. a rigorous, type-theoretical approach to the animes. < 1384210977 120651 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1384211011 250568 :monotone!~monotone@room208.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1384211031 646102 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, helloooooo < 1384211050 48898 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: shh it's writing an anime < 1384211054 744577 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:a1d9:fe78:7164:6634 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1384211056 274653 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1384211063 604687 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slowsuicide [(+-)*100-.] < 1384211065 733672 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:45f9:4603:b2cf:1950 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384211067 426503 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_slowsuicide: 8.3 < 1384211109 612739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you should write an irc bot < 1384211109 909934 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes, but i was asking the question for long descriptions, the program will do is just use string-uninterned-symbol, but you can still have make-queue take an argument, and returns false < 1384211136 390024 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: you should buy a boat < 1384211136 605247 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: and it'll all be happy to use scheme to make you do a hot-code update in scheme < 1384211160 967008 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: why are you so obsessed with programming!! there are other things in life < 1384211161 182581 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i thought that the joke might be that your particular statement needs a and some others < 1384211348 979474 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun, I expected more than 4 draws (and fewer wins) :) < 1384211410 411085 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: fungot fungot fungot < 1384211410 614063 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ( runnin ( define x ( tag-pointer dpy ' a)) < 1384211423 864518 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot more like schemegot < 1384211475 974246 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1384211560 753174 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blame #scheme for that. < 1384211568 932963 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: fungot should balance its parens at least?? < 1384211569 118128 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: pretty soon i'm going to give you access to the char-sets. < 1384211587 10719 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you'd probably do better with a straight up vibrator. < 1384211587 277565 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: i'm honoured < 1384211587 568918 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: i've overlooked the syntax-closure-transformer in your question" :) swap them around. bah. many languages have both " ocaml interaction" and " association"? how do i use srfi-9 records in gambit? < 1384211626 764794 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust very slow suicide (-)*127(-+)*8000- < 1384211629 401811 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for quintopia_very: 22.0 < 1384211641 645159 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :lul < 1384211644 143598 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :good enough < 1384211656 775416 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you keep slowing the suicide does it become life (and higher scores) < 1384211685 967755 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384211713 912511 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that never gets a chance to suicide. it either wins or is legitimately beaten before it clears its flag. except against simple locks < 1384211721 922142 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/CKIi huh < 1384211763 741522 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slowsuicide (+-)*50001 < 1384211767 317082 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_slowsuicide: 9.1 < 1384211770 936358 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus < 1384211811 237901 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust slowsuicide (+.+-)*50001 < 1384211813 821965 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_slowsuicide: 10.9 < 1384211816 352842 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I'll stop there :) < 1384211835 69658 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: vibrating between 0 and 1 is strictly better than vibrating between -128 and -127 < 1384211854 406631 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are many things on the hill which have no counter-vibration < 1384211880 358467 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what does . do in bfjoust? < 1384211891 741674 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1384211894 395990 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1384211895 768879 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :waste a cycle < 1384211903 455278 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :+. is a real suicide :) < 1384211910 377781 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :S2 < 1384211911 141010 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if noone interferes) < 1384211916 544978 :S2!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de NICK :S1 < 1384211933 116390 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: not really. (+.)*128 would be < 1384211945 672233 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, so would be (+)*128 < 1384211953 544486 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+.+-)*50001 < 1384211956 909301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. < 1384211961 166596 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1130) everything is either zipf, branford, poisson, gamma, or uniform. outside of that, it's a weird curve invented by sadistic statistics teachers. < 1384211982 786420 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh good quote < 1384211988 127232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :zipf is power law right < 1384211992 534781 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384211993 997400 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know branford < 1384211995 838202 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: but cauchy :( < 1384212004 205994 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: in the 128th interation, the flag should be zero for two consequutive cycles, or am I missing something? < 1384212005 718366 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: exponential < 1384212005 958472 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"nobody uses cauchy you sadist" < 1384212024 8078 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(wow, my spelling is awful.) < 1384212030 833668 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: you're missing the fact that "end of program" is the same as "forever nop" < 1384212050 681303 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i have just enough tabs open for chrome to draw icons for every other tab < 1384212061 539639 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: too many < 1384212062 930048 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's like a rounding thing < 1384212077 503750 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/egostats/ updated after a long while with all those Oj742 programs. < 1384212087 583800 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :
PING 1384212085640
< 1384212097 935864 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, now i have to ask boily what branford is < 1384212105 991771 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :some obscure joke probably < 1384212125 181356 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thanks! looks like we might be seeing the first uptick in bf activity since january. good thing it waited for me to get home. < 1384212127 282163 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: there's enough instructions for 200k cycles anyway. (I'm not disputing that (+)*128 is a suicide) < 1384212148 675860 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART :#esoteric < 1384212173 78175 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I think maybe Benford? < 1384212191 355075 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law < 1384212225 811849 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also missing: good old von Mises-Fisher. < 1384212239 768985 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: So let me restate ... the code (+.+-)*50001, left alone, should set the flag to zero for two consecutive cycles (when executing +. when the flag is -1), and lose, after 4*128-2 steps. Is that right? < 1384212243 114925 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow ALL_IN only wins on even tape lengths. it must have >> in its clear loop. < 1384212280 932908 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though maybe it was more about "appears in real world" and not "used by people" listing. < 1384212300 123080 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: is it 4*? check egojsout. it prints cycle numbers. < 1384212328 681814 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A continuous probability distribution on the circle" neat < 1384212343 411113 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384212359 612431 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see, when you add -fisher it's an n-sphere instead. good going, fisher < 1384212362 18052 :S1!~S1_chatzi@pD9FCA566.dip0.t-ipconnect.de PART :#esoteric < 1384212415 518773 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : In any case, the most impressive Intercal program I know about is Ørjan's unlambda interpretet ( http://home.nvg.org/~oerjan/esoteric/intercal/ ) <-- :)) < 1384212426 339764 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: yes it is. < 1384212478 164575 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :kk < 1384212518 620330 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: Some of those tape heat-map plots seem to have become confused, will have to check them out later. < 1384212531 57962 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i hadn't seen that one either. it's impressive! < 1384212567 355863 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "DO CONTINUATIONS DREAM OF MONADIC SHEEP" lines are very intercal and i'm going to believe that they magically do useful stuff < 1384212652 855471 :avid!~null@uncommon.pw PART :#esoteric < 1384212660 288104 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384212694 881224 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1384212801 981840 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting that space_hotel gets grouped with preparation < 1384212804 533599 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also missing: good old von Mises-Fisher. <-- clearly those were sadistic stats teachers. especially fisher, did you know he supported eugenics? < 1384212912 629048 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my favorite things is that fisher ws conservtive and meanwhile haldane was hella marxist < 1384212959 915749 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-34.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1384213024 339174 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooodl: well, they are very instructive comments if you can think laterally enough < 1384213081 740775 :Ghoul_!uid6924@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-eniqgbpqbjxenojv JOIN :#esoteric < 1384213282 982946 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure enough, FORTRAN looks not entirely unlike INTERCAL. < 1384213311 965829 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, you think? < 1384213367 720140 :tswett!~quassel@ec2-184-72-227-152.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe COBOL looks more like INTERCAL. < 1384213431 796890 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :tht's certainly the intent < 1384213497 305773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN looks like Python: all that whitespace-sensitivity. < 1384213521 366026 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332] < 1384213638 303884 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1384213744 567368 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some way intercal is the zeerust of programming languages. < 1384213777 40949 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :made to be different, but still not escaping the general style of its contemporaries. < 1384213806 123001 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*totally escaping < 1384213824 828844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it managed in many ways. < 1384214098 366467 :nooodl!~nooodl@143.161-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1384214161 365914 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384214289 186386 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zeerust lang for the modern age would be nice < 1384214331 895869 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1384214332 154609 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a parody of python and ruby looking things?