< 1384646433 192115 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : After an incident a couple of weeks ago <-- ic, *opens caffeinated soft drink* < 1384646479 367329 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :this + the pain killers better remove my headache. < 1384646555 961295 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines Taneb running frantically around on a caffeine high < 1384646642 305654 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384646710 321666 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was more that I was visibly shaking and felt like my entire digestive system was trying to go on holiday < 1384646725 390211 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i felt that way yesterday < 1384646738 36303 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am typing the Dungeons&Dragons game recording; not finished yet but will be soon, hopefully. < 1384646739 168507 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i ate some food and it went away < 1384646742 692657 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then I stopped visibly shakin < 1384646743 212512 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1384646751 918520 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: ok i know that second part. if i take more than about two cups of coffeee. < 1384646756 212788 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And couldn't stop smiling and giggling < 1384646776 892988 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I couldn't feel my hands < 1384646785 916084 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384646793 453562 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how f much did you drink < 1384646811 14569 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two pints, on an empty stomach < 1384646820 730347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`frink 2 pints -> l < 1384646830 691968 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :473176473/500000000 (exactly 0.946352946) < 1384646832 465211 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 pints of coffee? < 1384646833 901337 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to get an extra 300 XP for an idea I had about what to do next, just at the end of the session, and this was just enough to advance to 27 ECL (20 HD), so maybe these two new spells might help a bit. < 1384646836 878526 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, of cola < 1384646852 662852 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it sugary as well, i expect that doesn't help < 1384646857 21125 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that's only like half a 2l bottle < 1384646859 384261 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384646860 981873 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do think, writing java makes me urinate more < 1384646874 627710 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, it was coca cola < 1384646881 101019 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very sugar, much caffeine < 1384646913 422630 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drinks coca cola zero < 1384646941 6046 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I drink coke zero now when I haven't eaten much < 1384646996 785312 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: fascinating! < 1384647014 132907 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed < 1384647038 438872 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be SOAP, though < 1384647068 854282 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did you logread the whole space nonsense from last night < 1384647085 146443 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i quite firmly skipped most of it. < 1384647098 923739 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: h8r < 1384647110 76400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo read it and gimme your insights < 1384647120 963718 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the thing about infinite velocity black holes and whatnot? < 1384647122 506709 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :my concentration would never last through all of that these days. < 1384647142 226855 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always disappointing when someone cites the laws of form seriously. < 1384647143 9347 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: no, it was chu spaces and category theory and adjunction and a horrible mess < 1384647150 457322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*adjunctions < 1384647218 199490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never read the laws of form, but i vaguely recall some claim it's just an encoding of propositional logic or thereabouts. < 1384647239 513191 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1384647253 133994 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but people cite it for the metaphysics < 1384647254 405659 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hang on, I've got a vague feeling I may have triggered this discussion < 1384647259 430115 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1384647270 91066 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh thank god < 1384647271 535940 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you mean chu spaces < 1384647280 334564 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I meant < 1384647286 342251 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1384647286 907688 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then yes < 1384647327 677170 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I sincerely apologize < 1384647358 994958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: you know, don't start going all Sgeo on worrying about what you're doing tdnh < 1384647394 450044 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, weren't you banned from variants of "hth"? < 1384647404 922331 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I don't know what you mean by tdnh < 1384647405 995556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i have cheating methods < 1384647409 645702 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :` < 1384647411 24722 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found < 1384647413 350166 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops :P < 1384647418 917570 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? tdnh < 1384647421 400957 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :tdnh does not help < 1384647433 227039 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? hth < 1384647433 383834 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was me forgetting to use it) < 1384647435 212234 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth is help received from a hairy toe. It is not at all hambiguitous. < 1384647458 609768 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it finally < 1384647474 401472 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i wasn't banned, elliott wrote a censoring script. < 1384647558 260702 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could do with an ice cream < 1384647575 121755 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if a) the petrol station next door is open and b) sells ice cream < 1384647589 192159 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What kind of ice cream did you want? < 1384647591 474336 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i was going to complain to Gregor that the logs broke the windows zooming shortcut, but then i realized i'd been pressing the neutralize zooming shortcut instead < 1384647601 895375 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, vanilla, preferably < 1384647607 46286 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also that he'd just laugh evilly at me) < 1384647643 492153 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did tunes.org choose to log esoteric? < 1384647666 638717 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, it happened before i got here < 1384647672 129634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie might know? < 1384647685 74215 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: why not tar? < 1384647713 918644 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I am not a huge fan of tar flavoured ice cream < 1384647739 350556 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :miksi ei tar < 1384647751 710454 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm suspicious on that last word, google translate < 1384647760 241708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1384647824 282979 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just realizes that fizzie might be the only active one here who's been here longer than him... < 1384647835 781491 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1384647840 122518 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor, surely < 1384648000 354728 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I'm seeing if the petrol station's shop is open < 1384648012 295515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck on your quest < 1384648047 462528 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384648093 344107 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote petrol < 1384648095 117012 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :345) what would you ever need petrol for newsflash: it doesn't actually taste that good \ 346) [on petrol] oklofok: it's actually poisonous, so I advise against drinking it ais523, also contains benzene, my carcinogen of choice. < 1384648117 685590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote gasoline < 1384648119 320735 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1384648142 380884 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 was on petrol? < 1384648151 358162 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :#drugz < 1384648208 938813 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: you should swat shachaf, he made a drugz joke not involving you < 1384648241 622414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or he could if he weren't hopelessly idle < 1384648301 921174 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in korea and/or japan right now < 1384648325 910721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell ais523 based on comments he made in #esoteric, he used to be with some if he disliked <-- i'm too noise sensitive to have flatmates, period. < 1384648326 361856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1384648360 696941 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :samsung digital city, the small autonomous state < 1384648435 250399 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that ice cream was certainly ice cream < 1384648452 202397 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Samsung Town is twinned with Disneyland Paris and Sony World (Tokyo, Japan). The "twinning" is only symbolic and has no legal significance." < 1384648462 182096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say so < 1384648479 735930 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think twinning has any legal significance in any case < 1384648507 834641 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall trondheim has a twin city in israel and also one in palestine. < 1384648538 217711 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as several in europe < 1384648582 601836 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's friendship city, but presumably essentially the same thing. < 1384648639 961561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i suppose it might not look good if samsung and sony had an antitrust case against them... < 1384648835 897272 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The streets had been laid down, but no houses were built; merely a row of cardboard boxes housed the first few residents who had migrated east from the slums of Ashburton to enjoy a better standard of living, only to be bitterly disappointed with the estate agents who promised milk and honey but instead delivered a mosquito infested swamp. The Ashburton immigrants, while disappointed all agreed that the swamp was a major step up from their former homes." < 1384648851 543032 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`addquote my sleep schedule is not actually random, but I'm not convinced it compresses well < 1384648855 733132 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :1134) my sleep schedule is not actually random, but I'm not convinced it compresses well < 1384648910 404370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: wtf < 1384648928 602972 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, from the Wikipedia page of the suburb I lived in when I lived in Australia < 1384648968 18359 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Waverley,_Victoria < 1384649086 795975 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :monash, the ancient grounds of agora nomic < 1384649188 241309 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could have met the founders of agora nomic!? < 1384649192 88331 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I was 4!? < 1384649198 848232 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met waggie < 1384649269 577322 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too! < 1384649294 424945 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:707b:81f0:dc04:dc8 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384649302 518676 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: well Steve i suppose. < 1384649381 7035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :agora looks disturbingly quiet. < 1384649738 928663 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ™" < 1384649741 98281 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+2122 TRADE MARK SIGN] [U+0022 QUOTATION MARK] < 1384649766 817445 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful, this command < 1384649808 845800 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : Wolfram Language will be the last programming language we ever need™ <-- i assume because it will cause the end of the world somehow. < 1384649867 558826 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode TRADE MARK SIGN < 1384649869 444758 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​™ < 1384649871 373304 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1384649884 875323 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ™cool™ < 1384649970 810649 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt gr+shift+8 < 1384650027 594267 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :¾? < 1384650040 711315 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ™ here < 1384650316 719485 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net QUIT : < 1384650412 440208 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :compose-t-m < 1384650436 802901 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :note to self: make a better compose setup < 1384650510 537048 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode REGISTERED TRADE MARK SIGN < 1384650512 409498 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unknown character. < 1384650519 548040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo fickle < 1384650530 723453 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode REGISTERED SIGN < 1384650532 632959 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​® < 1384650772 404152 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unicode COPYRIGHT SIGN < 1384650773 909942 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​© < 1384650783 570744 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright ⓒ < 1384650857 418949 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf™ < 1384650892 926492 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode ⓒ < 1384650894 875676 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+24D2 CIRCLED LATIN SMALL LETTER C] < 1384651049 768912 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ⓒ < 1384651180 773370 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run unidecode Ⓒ #oh no, shachaf is onto me < 1384651182 615208 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+24B8 CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER C] < 1384651201 75238 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode < 1384651202 702935 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode < 1384651207 223505 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run unidecode < 1384651208 838613 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode < 1384651221 635876 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :...am i on that stupid encoding still < 1384651230 413418 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover....................................................................... < 1384651235 850377 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode © < 1384651237 753798 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+00A9 COPYRIGHT SIGN] < 1384651239 80790 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c, DUNNO < 1384651245 526598 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1384651249 544883 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck's sake xchat < 1384651254 747932 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run unidecode < 1384651256 310524 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/hackenv/bin/unidecode", line 4, in \ print u" ".join("[U+{0:04X} {1}]".format(ord(c), unicodedata.name(c, "DUNNO")) for c in " ".join(sys.argv[1:]).decode("utf-8")).encode("utf-8") \ File "/opt/python27/lib/python2.7/encodings/utf_8.py", line 16, in decode \ return codecs.utf_8_decode < 1384651264 887462 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fuck this shit < 1384651386 127781 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384651409 885850 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384651767 108700 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how useless the aleph numbers are < 1384651923 590259 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384652105 757111 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imapqxypxznttvmi QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384652128 393208 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :/nick LordEnglish < 1384652193 979360 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Quit: move to better server, be right back < 1384652298 64843 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOO LAMBDABOT, IT'S A TRAP! < 1384652465 814810 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d JOIN :#esoteric < 1384652528 540339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@botsnack < 1384652528 733319 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1384652551 416927 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let fibs = fix ((0:) . scanl (+) 1) < 1384652552 412223 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1384652556 190206 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fibs < 1384652557 735848 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,1,1,2,3,5,8,13,21,34,55,89,144,233,377,610,987,1597,2584,4181,6765,10946... < 1384652568 709028 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1384652574 950362 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone explain < 1384652588 110788 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the 0:1:zipwith-way < 1384652605 592074 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> scanl (+) 0 [a,b,c] < 1384652606 845697 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,0 + a,0 + a + b,0 + a + b + c] < 1384652639 582679 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Isn't it more fun to figure it out yourself? < 1384652691 385635 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kinda makes sense < 1384652698 197154 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does fix do? < 1384652722 387339 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix f < 1384652723 653776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.FromExpr a0) < 1384652723 810764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a us... < 1384652731 781945 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw. < 1384652735 288112 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src fix < 1384652735 445003 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix f = let x = f x in x < 1384652745 978788 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaah < 1384652758 515108 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y combinator? < 1384652765 800743 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1384652787 489987 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny < 1384652858 963074 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0.1/20131112160018] < 1384652863 784784 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix (expr . f) < 1384652864 855865 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric : f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (f (... < 1384652879 438509 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384652897 57645 :ggherdov!sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rdvagxmmogqolavb JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653183 881536 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653184 521592 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1384653199 313046 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653202 853719 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653229 386011 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653277 412765 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The channel of the chimæric hellos | The most corum, clargoint chait you could ever loofefl your slance in. | Magnus!!! | Koirammekokaan ei lennä? :( | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf | logs: http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ or http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1384653441 619480 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653458 150650 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653458 306944 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653504 743037 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653663 652845 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653696 154424 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653748 969708 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :CADD: FIX YOUR CONNECTION < 1384653787 14558 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653845 812144 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653869 265982 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 NICK :Guest59952 < 1384653870 217757 :Guest59952!~CADD@12.227.104.109 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: its not my connection, im fixing my .irssi < 1384653895 110027 :Guest59952!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384653941 798321 :CADD_!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384653956 688152 :CADD_!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384654193 392400 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1384654201 731907 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :does CADD know about /reload? < 1384654457 718691 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:707b:81f0:dc04:dc8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384655048 286033 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384655242 726000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSSIBLY NOT < 1384655267 73140 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :pizza! < 1384655613 525921 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: norwegian pizza? < 1384655617 192630 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hear that's good < 1384655639 350463 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1384656432 202551 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:707b:81f0:dc04:dc8 QUIT :Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif < 1384656781 671209 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:707b:81f0:dc04:dc8 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384657913 413300 :trout!root@freebsd/developer/variable NICK :constant < 1384658629 881333 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a new book for the esoteric list http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=0195079515/principiacyberneA/ < 1384658720 404012 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will change your life! < 1384658879 622587 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kauffman's recent work translates his biological findings to the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_body_problem and issues in neuroscience < 1384658907 640925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, your second line makes me suspect you are being sarcastic. < 1384659003 980256 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard enough bullshit like that in one life time thanks < 1384659024 674006 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually read the book, it's interesting but not particularly meaningful < 1384659036 773791 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, kauffman. so he's not like, insane, just... right. < 1384659056 444020 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :not insane, just right, sounds like a good place to be. < 1384659105 341316 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it points out that if you make the fitness landscap complex enough, fitness doesn't really matter < 1384659131 399532 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn f :: Maybe (b -> Either a b) < 1384659131 560176 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot parse command < 1384659135 864984 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1384659141 945039 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@djinn Maybe (b -> Either a b) < 1384659142 101916 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = Nothing < 1384659152 171124 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: like how < 1384659152 985255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot: you're boring. < 1384659188 54313 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that if you collect a set of more than K Boolean functions it is universal < 1384659189 277641 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Your question is boring. < 1384659218 769113 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(by universal I mean you can construct any boolean function) < 1384659234 131131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: that's technically incorrect. < 1384659244 720791 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is pretty much the entire 2 pound book < 1384659247 572950 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see my beloved Post Lattice) < 1384659305 964879 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that reminds me i should pick up some systems biology stuff. < 1384659315 334580 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i wonder if it _is_ possible to have a set of infinitely many boolean functions where none can be expressed in the others. < 1384659335 658557 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no. < 1384659370 131930 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kauffman wrote (January 2012) "No entailing laws, but enablement in the evolution of the biosphere," which aims to show that evolution is not law entailed, as is physics, and that, without selection, evolution enables its own future possibilities. < 1384659387 551410 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I can't tell what the hell it means < 1384659389 73903 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because all the classes are finitely generated, and you must be able to express the generators in finitely many of them, which means you can express everything. < 1384659406 40361 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however is there really an upper bound K... < 1384659413 84748 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :post lattice is cool < 1384659440 996779 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, technically _if_ you generate everything, your set has 5 which do it. < 1384659454 903404 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*5 functions < 1384659541 62910 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which 5? < 1384659591 160112 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's on arxiv. < 1384659613 668241 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: for each of the 5 maximal subclasses, find a function that doesn't belong to it. < 1384659637 404871 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same function can work for more than one, so it doesn't have to be the full 5. < 1384659637 994765 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: can you recommend me some systems biology books or papers? < 1384659650 725868 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384659700 158935 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://arxiv.org/abs/1201.2069 yeah i don't know what the hell they're on about < 1384659700 704505 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, find (1) a function which doesn't send all 0 to 0 (2) a function which doesn't sent all 1 to 1 (3) a function which isn't monotone (4) a function which isn't linear/affine (5) a function which isn't self-dual. < 1384659711 508844 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*send < 1384659738 912932 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: i've been recommended http://www.amazon.com/dp/1584886420/ < 1384659743 550537 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will note that nand and nor don't do any of those, and so generate everything alone. < 1384659779 526114 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: thank you, now I know more than I did this morning < 1384659798 424777 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome! < 1384659832 866286 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one star review of that has some oter links, eheh < 1384659880 363535 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the university library has it, I'll take a look < 1384659958 478456 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, the abstract actually makes sense to me. < 1384660049 241753 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says with physics you can predict the future at pretty well (some of the time). With biology who the hell knows < 1384660161 601254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the lattice diagram again, i cannot see any node other than the top which has 5 edges down - so it probably _is_ the case that if you have 5 functions none of which can be expressed in the others, they must generate everything. < 1384660225 195301 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i'm not at the spot quite sure if each of the 5 classes misses a function that belongs to all of the others. < 1384660285 376515 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant zero, constant one, identity, ... i guess and and or would let you build xor and negation < 1384660301 101150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it would simply be impossible to find 5 such functions. < 1384660301 295543 :constant!root@freebsd/developer/variable PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I refuse to identify myself < 1384660374 444011 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss the List of Things That Don't Exist < 1384660375 112902 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1384660399 628709 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Your true love. < 1384660408 184208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: your list includes nothing non-monotone yet < 1384660410 36840 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wisconsin < 1384660432 759817 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you definitely cannot build xor and negation < 1384660516 426814 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... is that five functions that aren't complete < 1384660520 481674 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :identity is assumed by default. < 1384660569 585179 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's what you get if you start with a variable and don't use any functions. < 1384660593 681141 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's expressible without anything. < 1384660595 994750 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Like gruncheons and pritons? < 1384660611 918552 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw. < 1384660643 616588 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bike: http://www.amazon.com/review/R7DHOCB2N9PYT/ref=cm_cr_dp_title/177-0981632-5731719?ie=UTF8&ASIN=0231075650&nodeID=283155&store=books < 1384660648 788269 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant zero and constant one together take care of three of the classes, however. < 1384660667 228314 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Critics of reductionism have pointed to Kurt Goedel's 1931 "incompleteness theorem" (which shows that in any axiomatic formulation of, say, number theory there will be true theorems that cannot be established) as a contrary example, but this paradigm-shattering result has been largely ignored the scientific community, which has blithely persisted in its reductive beliefs. < 1384660692 973677 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://english.lem.pl/home/bookshelf/how-the-word-was-saved < 1384660694 539772 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: time to misunderstand everything at once < 1384660704 722169 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hm i think you _may_ have detected a flaw in my argument, anyway. < 1384660730 278148 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :brute force is the method of kings, oerjan < 1384660740 251526 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :nolars, nightzebs, nocs, necs, nallyrakers, neotremes and nonmalrigers :'( < 1384660778 469722 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Why are living things alive? As a theoretical biologist, Robert Rosen saw this as the most fundamental of all questions-and yet it had never been answered satisfactorily by science. " god damn it people < 1384660808 778259 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384660813 901826 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Since both the atom and the organism can be seen to fit that description, Rosen asserts that complex organization is a general feature not just of the biosphere on Earth-but of the universe itself." < 1384660827 440697 :^v!~NotPing@2601:4:4500:887:707b:81f0:dc04:dc8 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384660878 863091 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One of his results is to show precisely why physics (including molecular biology) has little to say about life (and non-life)." < 1384660916 903230 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously jesus fucking christ unpredictability doesn't mean indeterminism < 1384660927 348399 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you reading this Bike < 1384660954 68396 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i guess i'm an evil reductionist somehow < 1384660960 928664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: hm i think my argument that (5 independent functions => generate everything) holds < 1384660966 684289 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I like to torture him :D < 1384661057 357753 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"He concluded, based on examples such as this, that phenotype cannot always be directly attributed to genotype and that the chemically active aspect of a biologically active protein relies on more than the sequence of amino acids,," and he's doing the "REVOLUTION: THING NOBODY ACTUALLY BELIEVES IS WRONG" thing that is so, so fucking irritating < 1384661073 747563 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he(*)'s a sucker ((*) everyone) < 1384661074 222333 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is really failing to convince me that there is anything to systems biology < 1384661088 170865 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's not just this guy < 1384661105 43207 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Certain questions about Rosen's mathematical arguments were raised in a paper authored by Christopher Landauer and Kirstie L. Bellman which claimed that some of the mathematical formulations used by Rosen are problematic from a logical viewpoint. It is perhaps worth noting, however, that such issues were also raised long time ago by Bertrand Russel and Alfred North Whitehead" lol < 1384661115 128120 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reductionism is a useful tool, but not always!!! < 1384661132 691345 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Rosen was one of those unfortunate scientists who worked on problems, that to the rest of his community were non-existent. < 1384661141 949360 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pst i'm not really a sole reductionist < 1384661164 600655 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"REVOLUTION: THING NOBODY ACTUALLY BELIEVES IS WRONG" <-- you could make that into an onion headline < 1384661264 856769 :CADD_!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384661280 789848 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it just needs an "IN SCIENCE" after the REVOLUTION < 1384661317 375767 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384661368 552757 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly think of systems biology as being like this one mostly informal book i read tbh < 1384661381 790990 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was about cells-as-computers, which is the opposite of this rosen guy so fuck 'im < 1384661406 278269 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he goes on and shows how the recursion in a function can be seen as constraints between (differential) equations, which he calls "chronicles". < 1384661497 537415 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bike what did you read? < 1384661548 615406 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.com/dp/0300167849 < 1384661551 827822 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it 'counts' < 1384661554 27414 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i think maybe you _cannot_ have 5 boolean functions that cannot be written in terms of each other. < 1384661590 21106 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if one is self-dual and sends all 0 to 0, it will automatically send all 1 to 1. < 1384661591 369621 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :goes over gene regulatory networks and protein stoichiometry equations and shit < 1384661598 78943 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for non-scientists < 1384661691 558632 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cannot get a function that is in not in P_1 and yet in all the others. which means whatever function avoids P_1, avoids one of the others, and so you need at most 4 of them to avoid all the maximal classes. < 1384661714 765885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile bike's example shows that you _can_ have 4, so this is optimal. < 1384661735 960758 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as i planned < 1384661748 522820 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1384661844 921234 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1384662236 839213 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to this paper, the Pentagon once asked if nuclear bombs can be made to explode in the past. < 1384662256 395712 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sound right < 1384662299 177779 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly my favorite 'systems' stuff is in ethology though. it's not really 'systems biology' but like lorentz had this adorable machine model made of waterwheels < 1384662629 565223 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :he actually built it at one point iirc < 1384662717 169421 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :konrad lorenz? < 1384662743 905700 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yea < 1384662803 839551 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or edward lorenz < 1384662850 462057 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said ethology, didn't i < 1384662891 44361 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ace.gatech.edu/experiments2/2413/lorenz/fall02/ < 1384662908 338746 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this lorenz has waterwheels and everything < 1384662965 626674 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks cool, actually. < 1384662982 219493 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a double pendulum set up in one of the physics buildings, it's fun to fuc with < 1384663648 218884 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that interesting things are also interesting to crackpots? < 1384663721 600723 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384663952 394796 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose because it is interesting in general. < 1384664034 626810 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :AI is interesting but the AI channel here is a wasteland < 1384664212 396825 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ais like to keep it that way >_> <_< < 1384664825 913328 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what we're calling him now? < 1384664988 53937 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? ais523 < 1384664993 609871 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agent “Iä” Smith is an alien with a strange allergy to avian body covering, which he is trying to retroactively prevent from ever evolving. On the 3rd of March, he's lawful good. < 1384665016 236374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, we have no evidence that he is plural yet < 1384665456 101461 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Sgeo < 1384665458 74983 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo is a language nomad. (Not to be confused with a language monad.) He invented Metaplace sex. < 1384665570 178883 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :3rd of March of what year? In what timezone? < 1384665592 133333 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the year 0/0 < 1384665616 442279 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: i have always assumed it's every year. < 1384665630 793585 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably british standard time. < 1384665632 175995 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever timezone ais is in, probably < 1384665656 522478 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably the same as UTC that time of year < 1384665693 773374 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... what is metaplace sex? < 1384665760 946201 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two people repeatedly fainting without clothes < 1384665813 48690 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1384665870 10773 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's how I implemented a 'sex' option in Metaplace: Caused the participants to loop the "fainting" animation < 1384665896 699783 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i know metaplace? < 1384665913 727440 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it Yet Another Second Lifey Thing < 1384665931 452584 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaplace < 1384665940 190642 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: yeah, in 2d, Flash-based < 1384665941 24323 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as there is no ncurses ui, i am not interested < 1384665954 627431 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's dead now < 1384665967 453061 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It died less than a month after I invented metaplace sex < 1384665972 849085 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprise surprise < 1384665978 184835 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1384666213 15035 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to have something like snow crashs metaverse with a terminal interfacee < 1384666467 932621 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait so the part about Sgeo inventing metaplace sex is _true_? < 1384666491 318936 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1384666492 458954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what did ais523 invent, then? < 1384666507 682086 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it doesn't say. < 1384666540 1762 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :He invented the ability to learn multiple esolangs at once. Isn't there that news article about him knowing 25 languages? < 1384666554 807598 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "knowing" < 1384666559 688658 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK add that in, then. < 1384666571 747616 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be that hard < 1384666585 503167 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just learn any bf derivate and you are way ahead < 1384666589 134579 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :No one said it was an accurate news article < 1384666594 962344 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, misread you < 1384666649 805217 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run sed -i 's/sex/sex, thus killing it within a month/' wisdom/sgeo < 1384666654 147966 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1384666688 195952 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, the part about killing it within a month isn't true, it's correlation-therefore-causation fallacy < 1384666707 373718 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It died within a month, but I didn't cause it < 1384666708 432579 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1384666719 341526 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: can you prove that? < 1384666760 599063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: the entry was breaking #esoteric tradition with its accuracy. < 1384666783 628334 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hth < 1384666841 819914 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: we prefer to believe. < 1384666867 627262 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`quote what sex looks like < 1384666869 189665 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :313) sgeo do you actually know what sex looks like i am just checking here I think so < 1384666938 995438 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, that is Sgeo, too. So I suppose it is related, then. < 1384666959 814395 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, elliott said that in response to me talking about metaplace sex < 1384667112 160762 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, did you make a language about virtual sex? < 1384667179 780843 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex can look like a lot of things < 1384667183 122096 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of them < 1384667187 956990 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, the only mention of "sex" on the wiki is Taneb's userpage. < 1384667197 298189 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1384667209 38032 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should make a page only with the word sex in it < 1384667261 405901 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : you make the awesomest palindromes, you don't need sex and you don't need sleep. you are a fucking superhuman :| < 1384667264 934858 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh and you can transform into an elf < 1384667267 403099 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :User:Oklopol (note: only one of these is true) < 1384667291 101232 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :That palindrome sucked. < 1384667297 280007 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the "you don't need sex" is the true one. < 1384667314 223504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot tell whether oklopol believes it's the palindrome part, though. < 1384667316 641150 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably that is correct. < 1384667327 337784 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a great german palindrome i heard recently < 1384667331 868664 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb has stated being asexual. < 1384667379 117831 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh maybe he's just on his way to the big breakdown. < 1384667424 791484 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1384667526 637638 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"York student has psychic breakdown and starts fucking everything that moves, and some things that don't." you heard the headline here first. < 1384667538 285513 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait this is britain. < 1384667548 304947 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychic breakdown? like carrie? < 1384667550 898314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"York student has psychic breakdown, starts fucking everything that moves, some things that don't." you heard the headline here first. < 1384667578 355650 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: wait what is the correct phrase. < 1384667582 846619 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nervous < 1384667604 12123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"York student has nervous breakdown, starts fucking everything that moves, some things that don't." you heard the headline here first. < 1384667613 345010 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-P6h3xdZ34rE/ULVLrUmc3eI/AAAAAAAAZo0/JA2D-oN8Zjg/w506-h788/carrie_sriracha.jpg < 1384667618 567911 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Did this person just go through my old stackoverflow answer and add Unicode quotes everywhere? < 1384667631 467695 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/posts/13538351/revisions < 1384667639 942432 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: XD < 1384667659 839805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I can tell you what I invented at least; I invented matrix accounting (while sitting in an accounting class in school, having nothing else to do, trying to think of how to use complex numbers in accounting in a way that doesn't violate GAAPs; I concluded that this is impossible). Yes, you can make up lies about it if you want, I suppose. < 1384667717 964361 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to be one of only a handful of people who know how to do a certain thing with Varnish < 1384667725 569680 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* he moved punctuation inside quotes? < 1384667727 804828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's too much. < 1384667729 636689 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: i like how it states "typo" < 1384667732 776604 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What certain thing with Varnish? < 1384667753 231544 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: Well, apparently «`s -> (a,s)» was missing a `. < 1384667764 715742 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Passing data computed in the VCL to ESI subrequests < 1384668012 224855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is – in "world-passing" even plausibly correct? < 1384668042 527855 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: ^ < 1384668064 772064 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :My intuition says no, but you probably shouldn’t trust it. < 1384668101 55417 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if it's correct, but I don't like it. < 1384668125 59766 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll roll this back and add the missing ` myself. < 1384668198 686571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with error-prone, i guess. < 1384668319 110502 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode -- — < 1384668320 886893 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+0020 SPACE] [U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS] [U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS] [U+0020 SPACE] [U+2014 EM DASH] < 1384668339 835356 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing -- to mdash is an improvement in my mind, though. < 1384668362 730644 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like it. < 1384668375 726361 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't write - -. I wrote --. < 1384668388 511015 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't like _anything_, shachaf. < 1384668396 959384 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it the way it was! < 1384668404 374180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY < 1384668418 867187 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the one thing that's definitely better in my mind, though. < 1384668448 85634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm neutral on the quote marks. < 1384668449 721066 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think correct usage of "—" dictates that you don't put spaces around it. < 1384668451 799084 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is even worse. < 1384668492 124089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yeah wikipedia says you should use no spaces around mdash but spaces around ndash < 1384668628 217565 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, he's actually changing semantic meaning too! < 1384668685 46736 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't notice that. < 1384668705 631173 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and also quite error-prone (if we accidentally try to read too far into stdin, the program will just block until the user types more in)." < 1384668708 633310 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1384668711 146028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and also quite error-prone. (If we accidentally try to read too far into stdin, the program will just block until the user types more in.)" < 1384668721 439228 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some sort of semantics, anyway. < 1384668759 255696 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a small detail, like all the rest. < 1384668807 199099 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Is he using an en-dash in "as–is"? < 1384668881 749104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i'm not actually stopping you from rolling back. < 1384669230 408490 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1384671035 587977 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1384671741 302876 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes that hangman must be hell to play in vietnamese. < 1384671806 758377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :_ _ _ (1 incorrect: ở) < 1384672163 827646 :CADD_!~CADD@12.227.104.109 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1384672165 363240 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or korean :) < 1384672222 841659 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :is korean that bad if you use "letters" instead of "characters"? < 1384672242 299462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess you'd have the problem of where to place the _'s < 1384672257 922930 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why we use only the initial letters (jamos, to be exact) in hangman-like quizzes... < 1384672269 351005 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Where were you yesterday when we needed your help with foo-spaces? < 1384672274 265062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1384672278 893613 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1384672306 898041 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it therefore feels like a hangman but without vowels < 1384672342 705946 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: hm and that would be hebrew or arabic < 1384672376 964277 :lifthrasiir!~lifthrasi@115.68.131.49 PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1384672436 108719 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384672452 334510 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if indic languages do the same thing as korean, since vowels are like "accents" there < 1384672544 353366 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can think of a few possible ways to make up a variant of hangman game for languages having much more letters of alphabet, whether it is due to accents, or other purposes. < 1384672598 159986 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first page of google hits for hangman game "hindi" makes me suspect they only use it as an english learning tool < 1384672648 847315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose i might need to know the hindi words to search for the real thing. < 1384672651 771312 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384673747 142397 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384673757 1539 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1384674093 782763 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: zzo38 < 1384675104 769238 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384675555 422632 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1384675572 286898 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384675798 176960 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dead 'since vowels are like "accidents" there', and read quite a bit of history in case something would explain what on earth you mean. < 1384675804 997526 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i dead. < 1384676280 400789 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Need some suggestions for weird instructions < 1384676284 591131 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... I don't need them < 1384676291 251554 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm always looking for other ideas :) < 1384676392 250708 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer#Instruction_set definitely CCS < 1384676526 653834 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how about 'execute instruction in register' < 1384676603 639010 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Neat < 1384676606 445938 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would work < 1384676617 208371 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I have 16bit Registers and the longest instruction is two bytes < 1384676678 45758 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe something really silly, like have a register for how much the instruction pointer moves each cycle < 1384676681 757394 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :execute code backwards < 1384676737 721908 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384676766 226452 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good for debugging! or reliving the days of barrel memory < 1384677473 154927 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384677579 812270 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1384677628 880949 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1384677641 336122 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to add Rational Number Support < 1384677653 942679 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if you're going for "weird instructions" as in crazy dumb shit or what though < 1384677669 335042 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rationals in hardware? < 1384677709 76124 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1384677723 447765 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :8bit Quotient, 8bit Denominator < 1384677744 975247 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Not really "crazy dumb shit" < 1384677751 239063 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "crazy but still useful shit" < 1384677754 184943 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn but i like the barrel thing :( < 1384677794 55641 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess rationals aren't too hard though, mostly you need gcd right < 1384677794 212231 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't have barrel memory reversing the control flow < 1384677797 903812 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be crazy dumb shit < 1384677800 610761 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was in a barrel once for a play < 1384677806 658890 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was good < 1384677900 7219 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it depends on what the processor's for. i mean presumably the vax had that evalpoly thing for a reason. < 1384677929 71754 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly just because horn evaluation is super easy but w/e. < 1384678098 984211 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's that thingy called in english < 1384678106 608049 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you do 4/8 = 1/2? < 1384678125 386873 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reducing a fraction to lowest terms" < 1384678137 315043 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384678140 709818 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1384678143 739713 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :RDC then :) < 1384678143 896433 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just "reduction" i guess. < 1384678146 133008 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384678148 766404 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good to me! < 1384678162 740771 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :One has to do that manually < 1384678181 548201 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's probably slow if the CPU does it automatically all the time < 1384678253 65005 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i uh, dont' think i've ever cared about speed when i was using rationals, really. dunno how good the algorithms are. < 1384678264 213183 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus like, when i use rationals i usually want infinite precision... < 1384678269 538614 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although with 8bit/8bit I don't have a sign flag < 1384678279 872260 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1384678290 122996 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm really wondering the use case here i guess? < 1384678292 120194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I treat both 8bit values as signed 8 bit < 1384678360 524836 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: To allow < 1 pixel calculations < 1384678370 321297 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e if you wan't to move 1/10 of a pixel per frame < 1384678373 948107 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*e.g. < 1384678384 124032 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1384678384 378078 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, don't you usually use fixedpoint for that < 1384678389 824735 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also do that with integers < 1384678464 564738 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a processor for some weird game console I guess) < 1384678508 575305 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384678520 117618 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly wonders how that one snes coprocessor on... starfox? worked < 1384678552 571576 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Super FX? < 1384678569 247649 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. let it 3d render. < 1384678774 338555 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1384678789 596781 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1384678809 87862 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangul is the best < 1384678857 42196 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an ul < 1384678871 360158 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a many-appendaged creature for the korean version of hangman < 1384678885 829068 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain things. < 1384678908 287333 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: see one of the many benefits of hangul is that you can't mis-parse a word into syllables like that < 1384678930 976675 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: i know, hangul is p. good < 1384678938 523122 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad u agree < 1384678980 96939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :hang̈ul < 1384681034 239708 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384681760 692640 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384682067 311783 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hi did you know the esolang wiki's sole mention of the word "sex" is on your user page hth < 1384682123 768724 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1384682131 870545 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not < 1384682254 686791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also didn't know that < 1384682280 25687 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost ironic < 1384682284 878773 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly time for the "Sex" language, eh? (It's a brainfuck derivative with lewd words replacing the instructions.) < 1384682292 388407 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that way that makes people think it's ironic but really not at all < 1384682293 81825 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no < 1384682303 527496 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there's already at least one language that is almost exactly thaty < 1384682323 302691 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :. o O ( Ook! ) < 1384682343 919341 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fuckfuck < 1384682371 28513 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, 'sex' was too short for that one. < 1384682388 115604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ø.: V. good. < 1384682390 911219 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it. < 1384682533 962872 :nooodl!~nooodl@d54C668E4.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384682903 951608 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[Ook] represents the first, although unfortunately not the last, in a long line of trivial Brainfuck command substitutions." Amen. ("Look, I came up with 8 tokens and now I'm the creator of an esolang!") < 1384682983 649162 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(whitespace deserves a honorable mention though) < 1384683000 140702 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate brainfuck derivatives with an exact 1:1 mapping to brainfuck < 1384683113 607534 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: i thought of a whitespace derivate with zero width non-breaking space and zero width space < 1384683406 268464 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one could play with control characters like U+202A (left-to-right) and U+202B, too. < 1384683419 310452 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there matrices with only integers whose inverses also consist solely of integers? < 1384683424 205830 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for the identity matrix < 1384683424 719915 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's sort of boring. < 1384683434 857863 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384683460 469242 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: of course. A big class is all the triangular matrices with 1 on the diagonal. < 1384683470 837059 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah, the only interesting part is you had to use a hex editor to write < 1384683498 351353 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: ordinary brainfuck + some trivial sed, awk or perl. < 1384683499 993356 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Client Quit < 1384683500 697897 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The inverse of 2x2 has a factor of (1/(ad-bc)) < 1384683516 738938 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess a,b,c and d must all be multiples of (ad - bc) < 1384683531 388096 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ad-bc = 1 is not that hard to satisfy < 1384683547 442387 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. That should be easy < 1384683627 260959 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1384683642 494464 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a singular matrix? < 1384683666 970350 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can start with the identity matrix and then swap rows, columns, or add a multiple of a row or column to another row and column; finally you may negate rows and columns. < 1384683677 900978 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Singular matrix, a matrix that is not invertible" < 1384683678 462698 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384683688 135985 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not every Matrix with ad-bc=1 is invertible < 1384683738 118428 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1384683744 594054 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally did ad-bc = 0 < 1384683754 94856 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is exactly the criteria for it not being invertible < 1384683756 341140 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384683814 170071 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384683932 485911 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the sake of completeness: ad-bc = -1 is also allowed < 1384684306 61195 :nooodl!~nooodl@d54C668E4.access.telenet.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1384684421 388144 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good point < 1384684509 667571 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384684584 826418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : (whitespace deserves a honorable mention though) <-- whitespace is not brainfuck-based. < 1384684742 627511 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: ad - bc is also known as the determinant of the matrix. < 1384684772 760024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, integer matrices with det M = +-1 have integer inverses. < 1384684967 980589 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's if and only if, actually, because the inverse as determinant 1/det M which must be an integer for M^-1 to have integer entries. < 1384684973 494095 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*has < 1384685025 173620 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oops. thanks! < 1384685097 992476 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1384685112 316169 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But only integer matrices with M = +=1 have integer inverses. < 1384685122 957559 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*det M < 1384685136 776717 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's at least what my math tells me < 1384685148 206490 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i am saying! < 1384685148 514916 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a|(ad-bc) ^ b|(ad-bc) ... < 1384685158 716764 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :adbc|(ad-bc) < 1384685165 294959 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1384685173 205442 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which yields to 1 = x/(bc - ad) < 1384685199 638820 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1384685201 530885 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1384685207 191207 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't read your 11:42 < 1384685464 352774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adjugate_matrix#Inverses < 1384685524 929089 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From this formula follows one of the most important results in matrix algebra: A matrix A over a commutative ring R is invertible if and only if det(A) is invertible in R." < 1384685552 638615 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: your notation is off though; (ad-bc) | a. (The symbol | can be read as "divides"). < 1384685557 739649 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that +-1 are the invertible elements in the ring Z of integers. < 1384685880 835754 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384686424 846956 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1384686758 328179 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.115.219.253 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384687493 317461 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.175.239 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384687567 292856 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I know nothing about math notation :) < 1384687578 903334 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost nothing. < 1384687660 192569 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Luckily converting between binary and hexadecimal is still considered by my university to be a very difficult task for students < 1384687689 32956 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my lack of math skills does not matter < 1384687855 629843 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do any of you guys know the C167? < 1384688116 635807 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway... to make a point short: it's apparentely hard to read specs and find out how to figure out the physical address of stuff < 1384688162 363527 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384688717 869030 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384688944 317480 :nooodl!~nooodl@91.179.175.239 QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1384689651 5472 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"From this formula follows one of the most important results in matrix algebra: A matrix A over a commutative ring R is invertible if and only if det(A) is invertible in R." from that formula, the "if" certainly follows, for the other direction i guess you need to extend to commutative ring to a field or something? < 1384689692 517729 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then because there's an inverse if it's nonzero and inverses are unique, the only if follows < 1384689727 151298 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :*if the determinant is < 1384689728 916748 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if A is invertible in R, then det(A) and det(A^-1) are both in R, and their product is one, so the determinant is invertible in R. < 1384689741 345108 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/in R/over R/g < 1384689777 878569 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just wondering why it follows from that formula < 1384689797 291 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :but err < 1384689816 871243 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :det(A)*det(A^-1) = det(A*A^-1) = det(I) = 1 is an instance of that formula < 1384689818 479204 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you said i guess, take the determinant from both sides < 1384689842 803739 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh err < 1384689850 135295 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently it's explained right after < 1384689858 953041 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1384689899 177338 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :" det(A)*det(A^-1) = det(A*A^-1) = det(I) = 1 is an instance of that formula" how is it an instance of that formula? < 1384689920 176725 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although i'm not sure this question is very useful) < 1384689974 303796 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :the formula was "A adj(A) = det(A) I" < 1384690054 107719 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is that indeed it should follow from that formula that A has an inverse in an extension of the ring where there is an inverse for det(A) < 1384690112 211894 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and err... okay dunno. maybe i should forget about this. < 1384690297 592509 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ikea donated more to the Philippines recovery effort than China < 1384690335 694057 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1384690363 11496 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe Ikea is the larger country ... < 1384690575 535359 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think you're right, it's not *that* formula; at least every argument that I see for invertibility of A implying that det(A) is a unit uses det(AB) = det(A) det(B), and we've seen that this identity is all one needs. < 1384690602 345444 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384691040 760752 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps after seeing that there is little incentive to try much else, because that's sort of obvious < 1384691077 314196 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i don't think it's quite trivial to prove det(AB) = det(A) det(B) (maybe because i've never tried to prove it myself and it's quite an index hassle in most proofs i've seen) < 1384691126 376289 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384691231 480756 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384691240 447369 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the opposite of bootstrapping < 1384691279 97418 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :A safe shut down? < 1384691329 712921 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I mean in terms of programming paradigms and stuff < 1384691373 643822 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, bootstrapping here means building a program in small components, right? < 1384691440 614381 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand it as bringing things up to more abstract layers. as in from machine code via assembler to script languages to modern programming languages < 1384691493 321896 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping#Software_development < 1384691501 797979 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it really has an opposite, then, only an absence < 1384691510 282165 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be writing an agda compiler in machine code, I guess < 1384691534 439846 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1384691743 461733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : although i don't think it's quite trivial to prove det(AB) = det(A) det(B) (maybe because i've never tried to prove it myself and it's quite an index hassle in most proofs i've seen) < 1384691756 463194 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :if either A or B is singular then so is AB < 1384691773 265232 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares what the determinant is if it isn't 0 < 1384691809 939030 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you prove the determinant of AB is 0 iff that of A or that of B is? < 1384691865 282352 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean by "singular" < 1384691893 310608 :S1!5841b060@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.88.65.176.96 PART :#esoteric < 1384691902 336914 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :'has determinant 0' < 1384691924 43219 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you prove that if the determinant of A is not 0 and that of B is not 0 then also the determinant of AB is not zero < 1384691943 331914 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how does that help with showing what we were trying to show anyway? < 1384691955 61770 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if A and B are bijective then so is their composition? < 1384691968 534406 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i have a hunch you have no idea what we're talking about < 1384692023 709206 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are trying to show that the invertibility of the determinant of A has something to do with the invertilibity of A < 1384692040 716220 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :determinant not being 0 is _not_ what characterizes invertilibity of A < 1384692074 390200 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it... is, isn't it < 1384692097 743269 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A matrix A over a commutative ring R is invertible if and only if det(A) is invertible in R." < 1384692105 541018 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what we're talking about < 1384692113 957324 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fields < 1384692118 221088 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhhh < 1384692136 936153 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes i joined well after any of that was said < 1384692145 185324 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXCUSESSSSS < 1384692225 701160 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :should you not call that something other than matrix then < 1384692235 232864 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :like they call vector spaces over a ring modules don't they < 1384692261 79496 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1384692311 419035 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: To calculate det(A*B) one can use column operations on A (which are column operations on AB) and row operations on B to transform both A and B into upper triangular matrices, with the determinant unchanged or multiplied by -1 (from swapping rows or columns). This works over fields, e.g. Q. So now we have det(AB) = det(A)*det(B) over the rationals. We may regard the entries of A and B as variables, whence det(AB) =... < 1384692317 346581 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :...det(A)*det(B) becomes an identity of two polynomials of degree n in 2n^2 variables. The identity holds over the rational numbers, which means that the polynomials must be identical. They also have integer coefficients. Therefore, the identity carries over to arbitrary commutative rings. < 1384692323 383361 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually you say "matrix A over a commutative ring R" i guess, but then matrix after you've said it a few times. < 1384692379 492026 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: one still needs to show that row and column operations preserve the identity, but that's *far* less messy than doing the full calculation for det(A*B). < 1384692391 470511 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think about that for a sec < 1384692503 578979 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i guess that works < 1384692526 315191 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have only read proofs in the case of R and C anyway < 1384692529 734370 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :R as in reals < 1384692540 74846 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :C as in complicated numbers < 1384692573 324177 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine row and column operations work pretty easily just from the permutations and signs and stuff definition < 1384692602 883832 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really like the idea of using polynomial rings for transferring results from Q to commutative rings. < 1384692621 803265 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384692707 870463 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably not something i would come up with using in a proof, or at least i would then be like "does it really work like this daddy?" < 1384692722 197981 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :gtg play tennis < 1384693941 501656 :impomatic!~digital_w@87.114.102.71 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384694826 915585 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384695150 65230 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384695622 489927 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to get a strike-through to render on text-based browsers, especially links2 < 1384695846 879196 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384695881 323053 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why won't lex accept my #include o_O < 1384695920 933589 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb, i assume it's like italics < 1384696047 234810 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: is it in the wrong part of the file? lex files are divided into sections, it'd need to be in the section appropriate to C includ files < 1384696307 705438 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1384696313 583615 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :strdup is not actually in string.h < 1384696330 189623 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no strdup in C < 1384696382 852751 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1384696390 103322 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind-of trivial to write, though < 1384696433 958007 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :strdup is gnu99 < 1384696436 577223 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not c99 < 1384696438 207802 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1384696455 570284 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not know that < 1384696463 298908 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kinda surprising < 1384697400 518979 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523\unfoog < 1384698395 953620 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch QUIT :Read error: Operation timed out < 1384698480 500493 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch JOIN :#esoteric < 1384699124 279100 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1384699349 860286 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384699774 969472 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384699878 540363 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384700038 458047 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are very few (if any) standard C library routines that'd return allocated memory, except for malloc/calloc/aligned_alloc themselves. < 1384700094 585155 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And strdup-except-without-allocating-storage is basically strcpy. < 1384700245 613611 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :an allocating sprintf would be nice... I think GNU or BSD has that < 1384700333 420678 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, asprintf. < 1384700358 642028 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :In both GNU and BSD, I believe. < 1384700454 308222 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU also has the 'a' flag for *scanf conversion specifiers, so that e.g. %as allocates a buffer of sufficient size, and returns a pointer to that. < 1384700488 778400 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And getline, of course.) < 1384700845 328556 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1384702123 301051 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, strdup is posix at least < 1384702527 134734 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384702799 698152 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: whoa. i never knew about those < 1384702959 682538 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384706503 614534 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have enough space for 15 Instructions... < 1384706509 851926 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm running out of ideas. < 1384706593 180250 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1384706600 252809 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluate generalized hypergeometric < 1384706606 886882 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :distribution? < 1384706646 228209 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1384706653 128251 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Count Bits" < 1384706657 962100 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That oughta be usefull < 1384706666 558779 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like count one bits? < 1384706686 961198 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1384706691 755781 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :101 -> 2 < 1384706699 519356 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's always nice to have < 1384706721 955455 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about findfirstset while you're at it < 1384706746 927412 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :index of the first set bit? < 1384706753 224652 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmhm < 1384706757 228629 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :FSB < 1384706762 152988 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1384706768 150024 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a touch of russian < 1384706778 601194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not opposed to it < 1384706784 264039 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but where would one need that? < 1384706850 466743 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's floor of log < 1384706871 631327 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384706889 796721 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384706969 540784 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the linux kernel's scheduler uses it to implement a priority queue as a bitfield < 1384706992 977417 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384707005 818175 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then bsr and bsl it ist < 1384707011 473211 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(starting from right, starting from left) < 1384707225 702309 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1592232 < 1384707257 635358 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I currently have no matrix or vector instructions < 1384707278 701243 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no floats < 1384707280 745761 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :floats are bad < 1384707337 559086 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of instructions would you have just for vectors? if not just do X in parallel i mean < 1384707372 22557 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know yet < 1384707378 313936 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also.. that paper seems to be paywalled < 1384707394 853855 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, is that so. < 1384707443 796740 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Purchase article: $19" damn bloodsuckers < 1384707479 760071 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got a copy if you want it. < 1384707538 966059 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to have a look at it < 1384707542 619765 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's too illegal < 1384707545 713839 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I rather don't. < 1384707557 843505 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think intel will survive one copied paper. < 1384707570 219895 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme try dcc < 1384707650 23999 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bam. < 1384707656 134713 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvm < 1384707658 951572 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I googled it < 1384707661 906799 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha k < 1384707667 790777 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :inurl:*.pdf < 1384707668 726439 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1384708252 257021 :oklopol!~oklopol@dyn60-339.yok.fi QUIT : < 1384708576 794507 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1384708584 421517 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Well, I have three register sets < 1384708589 669971 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :with each 4 Registers < 1384708598 275963 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that would easily allow 2x2 matrices < 1384708613 138957 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 2x2 is probably not really helpful for 2D Graphics? < 1384708624 215957 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... < 1384708632 343412 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :all 2D transformation matrices I know are 3x3 < 1384708707 64169 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1384708824 256483 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384708869 80103 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :with such small matrices would you even get any advantage from a dedicated instruction rather than multiplies and adds, though < 1384708873 150963 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384708915 739081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can multiple a point with a 2x2 matrix to rotate it, if you count that as "helpful for 2D graphics". (Maybe not.) < 1384708916 676715 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric : all 2D transformation matrices I know are 3x3 < 1384708950 424506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you represent all euclidean motions of an n-dimensional space with an n+1xn+1 matrix < 1384709029 990276 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you need 4x4 for 3d rotation (quatranons) < 1384709035 53724 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: So? < 1384709038 635512 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly the point < 1384709044 820091 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the extra dimension to let you do translations (which aren't linear) < 1384709044 977213 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D transformations require 3x3? < 1384709052 828629 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike, yeah < 1384709053 907484 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nb i don't know shit about grafix < 1384709067 53803 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same as vector geometry < 1384709068 640864 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1384709071 801159 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it works because projective geometry) < 1384709079 484125 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of points you move pixels < 1384709082 153777 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't know projective geometry :( < 1384709113 201987 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with 2x2 you can do any linear transform, i guess < 1384709121 460914 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not sure i see the computer-side point < 1384709198 686216 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean matrix×vector is gonna be four mults an two adds no matter what, right. < 1384709239 298259 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you can do translations with 2x2 matrices < 1384709286 359393 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't. translations aren't linear. < 1384709307 165995 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1384709419 749676 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freivalds%27_algorithm wow this is the easiest algorithm ever < 1384709819 853633 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1384709822 244065 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's [-] < 1384709872 198390 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384710025 528999 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust [-] < 1384710025 906274 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1384710031 563044 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust loop [-] < 1384710041 427742 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__loop: 10.5 < 1384710046 596517 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1384710049 422313 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :two digit score . < 1384710089 777024 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust loop [-]<[+][>--[>+]] < 1384710092 557587 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__loop: 9.1 < 1384710138 137006 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust loop [-][>->-<<] < 1384710140 816939 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__loop: 10.4 < 1384710143 353244 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1384710161 460431 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust loop - < 1384710165 500414 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__loop: 6.8 < 1384710281 992153 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ++[[]+][>+][-] < 1384710282 336906 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1384710293 450195 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384710293 846650 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust saladdressing ++[[]+][>+][-] < 1384710297 821812 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__saladdressing: 6.4 < 1384710395 329892 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: [[]+] is the suckiest triplock ever :) < 1384710407 543132 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust suckiest_triplock_ever [[]+] < 1384710411 409312 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_unfoog_suckiest_triplock_ever: 6.4 < 1384710450 70063 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it'd loop until it drops to zero < 1384710451 542405 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :increment it < 1384710454 266132 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then wait again < 1384710473 569058 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :which should've prevented my from being killed < 1384710493 381699 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust saladdressing [[]+++] < 1384710497 280140 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__saladdressing: 6.4 < 1384710499 456148 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1384710527 700508 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] takes a cycle to detect the zero, and then it's been there for two cycles and you lost. < 1384710554 398606 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: it does do that, but it's a cycle too slow to avoid losing < 1384710577 607385 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is intentional in the rules, that sort of program would be unbeatable if it actually worked < 1384710586 10295 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not 100% unbeatable < 1384710587 781211 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but pretty close < 1384710635 253044 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust saladdressing >+++>+++>+++[]<+++[]<+++[] < 1384710639 222449 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__saladdressing: 1.4 < 1384710642 593714 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1384710645 406153 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can go suckier < 1384710758 368733 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1384710764 728955 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>-)*9([-])*21 < 1384710768 623652 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 0.2 < 1384710771 96929 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoho < 1384710784 469821 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>-)*9([-]>)*21 < 1384710788 558401 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 5.0 < 1384710816 929809 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can that be worse than [-] < 1384710853 909684 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>->+)*4([-]>)*21 < 1384710856 745280 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 6.2 < 1384710868 304422 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ten (>+)*9([[-.]]>)*21 < 1384710870 869160 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_ten: 11.8 < 1384710877 27127 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>->+)*4([-]>[+]>)*11 < 1384710879 981122 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 8.2 < 1384710889 852298 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ten (>+)*9([[-]]>)*21 < 1384710890 869969 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's .? < 1384710892 424132 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_ten: 6.1 < 1384710894 336401 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1384710903 109675 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes a cycle :) < 1384710917 977411 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust ten (>+)*9([-.]>)*21 < 1384710920 562265 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_ten: 11.3 < 1384711120 439198 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :[-] defeats [+] almost all the time, and [-] half the cases, I think. < 1384711184 138751 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1384711214 447012 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it's still interesting) < 1384711215 456132 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: but it loses to . < 1384711231 28923 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's what I call a "probabilistic lock", I need to add it to the wiki < 1384711284 410580 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :against [+] it forms a perfect lock 100% of the time; against [-] it forms a perfect lock 50% of the time, a detectable lock 25% of the time, and loses 25% of the time < 1384711336 444626 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"detectable" meaning that [-][.this.code.runs.]? < 1384711372 511416 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: yeah < 1384711380 607903 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-]..+>])*21 < 1384711383 664343 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 0.0 < 1384711387 62172 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384711392 449035 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: unbalanced [] < 1384711394 974979 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-]..+>)*21 < 1384711397 667352 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 6.3 < 1384711400 506164 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1384711402 821696 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-].+>)*21 < 1384711405 561655 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 6.3 < 1384711415 914747 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: you don't need that . after the [-] < 1384711421 505411 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the - sets it to 0, that's one < 1384711427 194445 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-]->)*21 < 1384711427 354539 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ] checks it's 0, that's two < 1384711430 222300 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 7.9 < 1384711456 413849 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-]->)*22 < 1384711459 222263 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 7.9 < 1384711461 379900 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>--)*4>([-]->)*23 < 1384711464 121812 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 7.9 < 1384711468 117289 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1384711469 62345 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1384711472 139598 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 cells at max < 1384711472 792877 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1384711483 679452 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :22 should get me to cell 30 < 1384711529 102839 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-]->)*22 < 1384711531 973090 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 9.5 < 1384711564 425146 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust one >+[]<[-] < 1384711568 199506 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_one: 6.2 < 1384711622 822784 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust one >+[]<.[-] < 1384711626 481954 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_one: 5.7 < 1384711650 347523 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-][<]+[>]>)*22 < 1384711653 138740 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 1.7 < 1384711665 587357 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[<] finds a non-zero cell, right? < 1384711666 5841 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. need two more? < 1384711683 123102 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: no. it finds a zero cell, skipping over non-zeros < 1384711695 8843 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust one >+[]<..[-] < 1384711698 496331 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_one: 6.8 < 1384711702 235537 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust one >+[]<...[-] < 1384711705 766616 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_one: 7.9 < 1384711710 913755 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny. < 1384711727 698386 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-][<]+[>]>)*220 < 1384711730 651330 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 1.7 < 1384711747 276441 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zero .[-] < 1384711751 28146 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_zero: 9.8 < 1384711752 314837 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-]<[<]+[>]>>)*220 < 1384711755 105532 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 3.5 < 1384711759 302548 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-]<[<]+[>]>>)*22 < 1384711762 167132 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 3.5 < 1384711769 489754 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. wait < 1384711791 163289 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-]<[<]+[>]>)*22 < 1384711793 892043 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 8.6 < 1384711840 895561 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad (>>-->+>-)*2>([-]<[<]-[>]>)*22 < 1384711843 607200 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 8.0 < 1384711852 406478 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >(>>-->+>-)*2>([-]<[<]-[>]>)*21 < 1384711855 258440 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 5.2 < 1384711957 725767 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust pancake ->>>-->>+++>*10([-]>)*0 < 1384711961 489024 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for FireFly_pancake: 0.8 < 1384712035 75706 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/DJaG MATLAAAAAB < 1384712035 269669 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >>->+([>]->[-])*30 < 1384712038 184774 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 5.3 < 1384712087 425492 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1384712092 666089 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[-] is suicide? < 1384712103 533753 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does that give you more points than my non suicid ones :( < 1384712287 396035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to guess it's because .[-] can get a tie or even win against a fast attacker < 1384712330 973515 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the other ones have a severe chance of going out of bounds < 1384712337 258181 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently an X server is required for "matlabpool local" to operate correctly. Possibly because (from what I recall) the JVM thing is somehow tied to the "desktop" system. < 1384712472 934123 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is "matlabpool local" supposed to do? < 1384712498 476541 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zero (-)*128[-] < 1384712501 148284 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_zero: 10.5 < 1384712549 384881 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zeroer (-)*-1 < 1384712554 131317 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for oerjan_zeroer: 11.5 < 1384712770 45100 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It's related to the MATLAB Distributed Computing Server, which is a system for parallelizing MATLAB code. It has a concept of a "pool" where the workers come from; "matlabpool open local 4" tells it to make up a pool that just involves running up to 4 workers on the local machine. (Other pools may distribute the work into nodes in a cluster, and so on.) < 1384713487 539264 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >+++>(>(+)*4[<---]+++)*1000 < 1384713491 553161 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 0.0 < 1384713495 894318 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1384713514 696116 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: it's the [<---] loop < 1384713523 274305 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have nothing but nonzero value between there and your flag < 1384713528 899661 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you end up falling off your own end of the tape < 1384713570 388023 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1384713571 462045 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1384713602 856313 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on egojsout < 1384713618 766302 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right, no, cell 2 is clear < 1384713630 427761 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fall off your own end of the tape when the opponent unclears it < 1384713686 831158 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384713745 172900 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1384713752 939970 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by 2 I mean 3 < 1384713763 485779 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I use 1-based indexing for BF Joust for some reason < 1384713770 964389 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should change my mental indexing system < 1384713838 60077 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found something which is called SWIG says is for wrapping and interface generator for several programming languages, but it doesn't mention Haskell and SQL. < 1384713887 314670 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >+++>(>(+)*4[<---]+++>)*100([-]>)*21 < 1384713890 261344 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 1.6 < 1384714064 11164 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: but it needs a 3 on the tape - there is one in cell 2, but if that gets modified (and all bots on the ladder will eventually attack), then it trips over the left end very quickly. < 1384714137 755079 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zero >+[]<< < 1384714141 380766 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_zero: 1.9 < 1384714167 974707 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zero >+++[]<< < 1384714171 596180 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for int-e_zero: 3.6 < 1384714181 210221 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The definition of persistence, from #scheme@freenode: http://sprunge.us/SOgT < 1384714277 822460 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :aah. i was hoping you would do the work < 1384714280 655844 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I remember reading somewhere that one of Blizzard's early RTSes, I think it was Starcraft, was delayed while they tried to reach feature parity with something that one of their rivals had demoed < 1384714303 378443 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out that their rivals didn't have the feature at all, the demo was just a video recording rather than something actually playing < 1384714348 441511 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hu < 1384714355 547689 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does [>+][-]> run over the tape? < 1384714363 597216 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>+] should find a non zero cell < 1384714370 456613 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then zero it < 1384714375 362913 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then move to the next one < 1384714383 429631 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :After the +, pretty much any cell is nonzero, so the loop goes on and on. < 1384714388 490561 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: [> moves to the next cell, + sets it to 1, ] goes back to the start of the program < 1384714399 920261 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :for [>+] to stop, the cell below the pointer must be zero. < 1384714410 248928 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1384714415 59989 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does one find a non-zero cell? < 1384714450 142363 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: (>[program here])*29 < 1384714516 87238 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody here knows where to find this regex example of why ruby sucks at parsing with whitespaces? < 1384714534 676931 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: well _did_ blizzard reach feature parity anyhow < 1384714551 815245 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, they were the first to impl the features < 1384714617 452045 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's called the "bait-and-switch". < 1384714663 768178 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The "demo" of a nonexistent feature, that is.) < 1384714676 738738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : The definition of persistence, from #scheme@freenode: http://sprunge.us/SOgT <-- did they manage to ban him, alternatively did shachaf quit in disgust < 1384714684 327333 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1384714767 221776 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1384714984 701722 :myndzi!myndzi@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:3d4e JOIN :#esoteric < 1384715019 967809 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I wasn't really following. My grep sees no bans, though no other signs after that 15th-day appearance either. Still, I'm sure that wasn't the last we'll see of them. < 1384715083 876915 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com NICK :augur < 1384715112 314838 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1384715170 290011 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust nop []+ < 1384715174 38864 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__nop: 6.5 < 1384715208 963079 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384715274 38315 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust zeroest (-.)*-1 < 1384715277 739049 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for oerjan_zeroest: 10.2 < 1384715352 152105 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >+>+[]<<[+] < 1384715356 52154 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 3.1 < 1384715633 781194 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >+>+>+[]<[+]<[]<[-] < 1384715638 557014 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 0.3 < 1384715665 581364 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust salad >+>+>+[]<[+]<[]<[-](>[-])*30 < 1384715670 513819 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for mroman__salad: 1.0 < 1384715809 304075 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1384715823 195133 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hey, have *you* tried bfjoust? < 1384715823 498106 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: ( i remember something like rest or tail). new hardware is required usually for games, its fpu ran much slower than realtime to figure out how < 1384715846 347800 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't think you'd really need new hardware for bfjoust. < 1384715846 670037 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these people really _are_ on crack. fnord::' demi-thread. if you have to code an attempt at adding " l'" to the wall with bug listings < 1384715929 869022 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You're crack. < 1384715930 62185 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: and that's a neat new language < 1384715937 92384 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Gee. Thanks < 1384715943 24833 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always new all my languages were neat. < 1384715945 328323 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knew < 1384715967 456573 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What about your languages? < 1384715967 664729 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: the primary documentation for emacs is done. < 1384715998 74932 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'd rather have vim... < 1384715998 388891 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: i have a midland accent ( or in most cases it is best not to hang around those cobol programmers in their late thirties and early fnord < 1384716000 910618 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: elisp isn't "your" language < 1384716001 135696 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: that is the fucking point. i really appreciate it. as i type. how nice. < 1384716039 276133 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what point fungot is trying to make.. < 1384716039 488005 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: y " is not a great essay writer the sentence choices seem odd. < 1384716189 305005 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot writes essays? < 1384716189 503472 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: so much about coding, as i've been giving them some stuff to do. you don't have to < 1384716661 103125 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sentence choices DO seem odd < 1384716776 166532 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you question that < 1384717158 916908 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a funny quiz about undefined behavior in C http://blog.regehr.org/archives/721 < 1384717312 998955 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust [>+][>-] < 1384717313 193647 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Use: !bfjoust . Scoreboard, programs, and a description of score calculation are at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/ < 1384717328 996387 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust blah [>+][>-] < 1384717331 633022 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for doesthiswork_blah: 0.0 < 1384717407 676843 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust blah2 [>-] < 1384717410 253162 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for doesthiswork_blah2: 0.0 < 1384717424 486546 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-30-45.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1384717454 664144 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesthiswork: I'm disappointed that some of the questions are about specific implementations rather than C < 1384717569 68316 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said that no one uses the standard, they all use implementations of the standard so questions about implementations are more meaningful < 1384717661 942372 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the kinds of things you need to watch out for < 1384718005 203123 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that is why he made me fail question 5, the bastard. < 1384718039 795190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of _course_ i'd know the answer if he'd said only actual implementations counted. < 1384718043 713035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*known < 1384718150 252618 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading that thing and finding a number of things to nitpick on. < 1384718225 136160 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in the explanation of Q4, it speaks of "promoting" an unsigned int to long, but that's (at least in nitpick mode) not a promotion, it's just part of the usual arithmetic conversions. < 1384718243 465550 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nice touch that the introduction with all those assumptions gets hidden when you start the quiz < 1384718343 466917 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The signedness of char wasn't in the introduction, anyway. < 1384718355 239955 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what makes it fun :) < 1384718363 451146 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it says as much in the explanation. < 1384718408 693855 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384718577 463322 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also disagree with Q10 explanation, which claims that "other values can be safely left-shifted", while in fact no negative values can. < 1384718632 380587 :CADD!~CADD@12.227.104.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384718703 170793 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust attack1 [>[-]+] < 1384718706 253330 :EgoBot!dlopen@64.62.173.65 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​Score for ais523_unfoog_attack1: 3.8 < 1384718747 729631 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384719354 12722 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aw, I thought it would be about persistent data structures. < 1384719512 874535 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also think Q18 is unambiguously wrong. It claims that, for int x, "(short)x + 1" is defined for all values of x, while in fact it's undefined, as acknowledged in the comments. < 1384719600 587371 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the "I’ll stand by my answer since I’ve never heard of an LP64 compiler that doesn’t just truncate" cop-out in the comments is utter nonsense, given the "Make no assumptions about undefined behaviors" requirement of the introduction, and the way other questions (like overflowing a signed integer) are handled. < 1384719683 50147 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, conversion to narrower integer was in fact implementation-defined? How weird. I guess in that case it's a little more defensible. < 1384719691 306390 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking that if sizeof int == sizeof short, then (short)x+1 overflows if x+1 overflows < 1384719714 595413 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is fuked up < 1384719741 566433 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: "sizeof (int) == sizeof (short)" is more clearly disallowed by the assumptions in the introduction, though. < 1384719774 436364 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was before I figured out which assumptions I was supposed to be making < 1384719854 471318 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384719880 509080 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384720002 329702 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384720006 448436 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any free graphics plotting software with language bindings for calling from SQL? < 1384720030 70862 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a thread on comp.lang.c about whether "f() + f()" is defined behaviour for all int-returning functions f (when f itself always has defined behaviour) < 1384720045 369186 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to take a guess at the currently accepted answer? < 1384720057 685028 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it isn't? < 1384720073 79962 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1384720088 687067 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1384720125 321131 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523\unfoog: It probably works for most functions on most computers, I would think; maybe there are some cases allowed by the C standard where this doesn't work but I don't know how obscure these are < 1384720185 738603 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer sees to be "it's always defined in C11; it's also always defined in C89 as of Defect Report 87 and C99 as of Defect Report 287, the actual text of the standards is silent on the issue" < 1384720218 94551 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, so it depends on the standard. < 1384720233 830515 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened to signed int overflows? are those not-undefined now? < 1384720250 509746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vex.net/~trebla/humour/tautologies.html < 1384720251 961379 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think it's not "about that". < 1384720265 355416 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: At least based on what those defect reports address. < 1384721126 807513 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I think they're still undefined < 1384721160 421174 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check n1570 < 1384721291 7779 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, C11 says that overflow is undefined, and unsigned operations cannot overflow < 1384721418 630571 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is pretty sure olsner meant in the f(x) + f(x) context < 1384721432 633880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, f() + f() < 1384721460 187228 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what I was talking about < 1384721487 229449 :KingOfKarlsruhe!~chatzilla@unaffiliated/kingofkarlsruhe QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/2013102400] < 1384721493 592582 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Good that's settled, good night! < 1384721513 844607 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I wasn't thinking < 1384721555 288179 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bleh, are there any symmetrical binary operators that are defined no matter what their arguments? < 1384721571 365046 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise operators aren't fully defined on negative numbers < 1384721587 790982 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ - * can all overflow, / and % can divide by zero < 1384721599 839394 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and / can also overflow if you do INT_MIN / -1) < 1384721636 864064 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can at least change the problem to "is f() + f() always defined if f() is always defined and returns an unsigned int?" < 1384721657 905020 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :or simply assume that f doesn't return something that causes an overflow < 1384721681 211958 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1384721722 579270 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In LLVM, at least, I think addition and subtraction are defined to wrap around unless you explicitly specify that overflow is undefined, in which case it is undefined. < 1384721759 672782 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Verity, there aren't signed versions of + - * because it's always two's complement and thus the unsigned versions work just fine < 1384721764 42460 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no issue with signed overflow < 1384721805 459984 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except in signed cast-to-fewer-bits, which is defined to simply take the low bits < 1384721978 576668 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that would work too (actually LLVM does the same thing; there is no separate signed and unsigned add command, although there are parameters to tell it to be signed or unsigned if you want overflow to be undefined) < 1384721999 359296 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384722203 702496 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Z-machine all arithmetic operators are signed and there are no unsigned versions. Overflow is supposed to be an error, but making it not error for addition and subtraction would help so that you can make address arithmetic. < 1384722340 636778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-49-17.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I did not think of division overflowing! Now I know. Therefore, DIV -32768 -1 S 0 (Frolg syntax) in Z-machine would also be error. < 1384722345 112296 :carado!~user4539@2a01:e35:8b61:e430:6ef0:49ff:fe73:1fd0 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384722388 958598 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@141.70.114.6 QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1384722389 532500 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1384722429 698620 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384722530 287097 :ajf!~ajf@94.3.245.95 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384723463 320681 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1384723495 456508 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=195992856 < 1384723548 666982 :doesthiswork!~Adium@98.145.118.186 QUIT :Quit: Leaving. < 1384723555 723443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Human Revolution" sounds like an appropriate name. < 1384723571 1636 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Now everyone knows your Steam Name.) < 1384723851 43866 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Quit: I'll probably come back in either 20 minutes or 8 hours. < 1384723986 645284 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1384724024 109704 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they can... < 1384724030 834814 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they can do something dastardly. < 1384724032 223738 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY CAN STEAM YOU < 1384724034 885205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendly you in Steam. < 1384724036 763792 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :STEEEAAAAAM < 1384724039 481009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "ly" in there. < 1384724054 118960 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no "lye" in your friend, at least under normal circumstances. < 1384724060 463252 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :steamly you in friendship < 1384724127 144194 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@2a00:d880:3:1::623f:813d QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384724782 376962 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384725343 696378 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-30-45.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1384725463 343922 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god I watched like a whole anime this weekend and suddenly I'm noticing loads of people reblogging it on Tumblr < 1384725480 13922 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What anime? < 1384725488 601581 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puella Magi Madoka Magica < 1384725507 8901 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat choic < 1384725508 751709 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*choice < 1384725525 543316 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: it is quite a popular one yes < 1384725555 64991 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :MOE < 1384725589 621863 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoyed it < 1384725615 93469 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends tried to get me to cosplay it but then we realised how expensive that'd be < 1384725706 556859 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really expensive) < 1384725712 761774 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also I'd probably have to shave) < 1384725839 738476 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: Go as Snake Quiet. Much cheaper < 1384725856 556933 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Quiet Snake, I guess) < 1384725883 764141 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already have a Jake English cosplay < 1384725889 533880 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nerdreactor.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/metal_gear_solid_v__big_quiet_boss_xd_by_zombiesandwich-d6lio0e-424x600.jpg < 1384725897 638799 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsfw < 1384725898 624778 :prooftechnique!~Also@c-24-147-92-50.hsd1.vt.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1384725912 220516 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :prooftechnique, I don't think I have the muscle tone for that < 1384726665 154238 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1384726762 572474 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1384726969 524403 :asie!~textual@178235038113.elblag.vectranet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1384727049 368453 :ajf!~ajf@94.3.245.95 PART :#esoteric < 1384728010 287632 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lambdabot :☹( < 1384728167 507238 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`unidecode :☹( < 1384728169 248979 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​[U+003A COLON] [U+2639 WHITE FROWNING FACE] [U+0028 LEFT PARENTHESIS] < 1384728180 960179 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, some kind of recursive frown. < 1384728187 182286 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just nested. < 1384728202 723205 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you zoom and enhance, I'm sure there's more frowns where that came from. < 1384728278 270615 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let zoom [a,b,c] = [b]; let enhance "☹" = ":☹(" in (enhance . zoom) ":☹(" < 1384728285 926629 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lambdabot :☹( < 1384728323 915906 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't worry, I'm sure there would've been some kind of Unicode problem. < 1384728360 703156 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1384728584 67492 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`run echo 'zoom [a,b,c] = [b]; enhance "*" = ":*("; main = print ((enhance . zoom) ":*(")' | runghc < 1384728588 717757 :HackEgo!dlopen@libdl.so PRIVMSG #esoteric :​":*(" < 1384728607 364639 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric :* is practically a smiley face. if you squint < 1384728641 746441 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a massively huge tear < 1384728919 441543 :ais523\unfoog!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1384730345 660630 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1384730357 622419 :Slereah!x@176.222.51.233 JOIN :#esoteric < 1384730361 844625 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384730722 938770 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T HAVE ANY MILK < 1384730749 857191 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I despise CAOS, but there's still an interesting property. In one way, it's like REBOL < 1384730778 975484 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b c could be interpreted as a (b c) if needed < 1384730794 229749 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :setv name "my variable" 5 < 1384730806 786537 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :setv takes a variable and an int and puts the int into the variable < 1384730820 489407 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :name "my variable" refers to the variable on the targ called "my variable" < 1384730840 658240 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(targ is a piece of global state, blech, but the REBOL-like processing is still interesting) < 1384731101 197236 :yiyus!1242712427@server1.bouncer4you.de QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1384731750 963105 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: I DO < 1384731778 767873 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, IS IT FULL FAT < 1384731812 761294 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://heh.fi/tmp/mpiling_data.jpeg < 1384731842 12635 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: IS THAT THE SAME AS WHOLE < 1384731851 580042 :Oj742!~Oj742@c-71-59-199-75.hsd1.or.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: irc2go < 1384731855 173231 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, YES < 1384731881 350375 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: THAT'S WHAT IT SAID ON THE COW < 1384731931 549095 :nisstyre!~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1384731958 375751 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, CAN I HAVE SOME OF YOUR MILK PLEASE < 1384731971 325389 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: SURE < 1384731989 477260 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: SEND ME A SELF-ADDRESSED STAMPED ENVELOPE AND I'LL POUR SOME MILK IN AND SEND IT BACK < 1384732021 509194 :Taneb!~Taneb@5.151.64.255 PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, IS YOUR ADDRESS "SHACHAF, CALIFORNIA PROBABLY"? < 1384732047 622352 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT MIGHT GET TO ME < 1384732076 506357 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I bet you could figure out how to send mail to me. < 1384732132 78342 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: PLEASE ALSO INCLUDE CADBURY FLAKE < 1384732248 837433 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google tuscan whole milk < 1384732260 832928 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: lambdabot :☹( < 1384732385 349921 :Sprocklem!~Sprocklem@S010674440130be65.cg.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1384732527 997257 :nooodl_!~nooodl@91.177.92.147 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::😸3