00:00:07 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:01:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 00:05:00 well that seemed to go rather well 00:11:33 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:14:03 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:24:53 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 00:32:45 -!- muskrat has joined. 00:32:54 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 00:33:24 -!- ruddy has joined. 00:36:31 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 00:57:10 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:09:08 @vote olist 01:09:08 usage: @vote 01:09:12 @vote olist update 01:09:12 voted on "update" 01:09:13 useless 01:11:30 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:11:46 @poll-result olist 01:11:46 Poll results for olist (Open): update=933 01:12:15 @poll-remove olist 01:12:15 Poll should be closed before you can remove it. 01:12:18 help 01:12:20 @help vote 01:12:20 vote Vote for in 01:12:24 @list vote 01:12:24 poll provides: poll-list poll-show poll-add choice-add vote poll-result poll-close poll-remove 01:12:27 you can't close it yet! 01:12:32 what if someone votes for... another option! 01:12:35 @poll-close olist 01:12:35 Poll "olist" closed. 01:12:39 @poll-remove olist 01:12:39 poll "olist" removed. 01:12:43 nooooo. 01:12:58 such a profoundly secure system. 01:13:13 you're destroying democracy 01:13:35 Bike: that's pollitics for you 01:13:58 Bike: it's ok the ballot was stuffed anyway 01:14:18 http://dynasty-scans.com/system/releases/000/008/952/cw-a-4.png a depiction of shachaf 01:14:42 help 01:14:51 which one am i 01:15:05 the demon thing, obviously, you fascist. 01:16:11 which demon thing 01:16:17 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:16:32 i don't know what's going on help 01:18:52 «Primary duties will be to place and monitor trial carcasses as part of searcher efficiency and carcass removal trials [...] on the Island of Maui.» in CowHub news 01:24:19 an opening for a cow orker, i take. 01:26:40 -!- muskrat has left ("Leaving"). 01:32:43 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 01:36:00 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 01:38:41 :D 03:51:02 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 04:33:51 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 04:41:29 @remember ddarius The secret to usable software is not discoverability, not documentation, not consistency; it's preview and undo. 04:41:30 I will remember. 04:44:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:52:45 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 05:00:36 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 05:12:34 Star Wars Downunder http://youtu.be/mhTn8cjm9ZM (the subtitles have a translation to English :-D) 05:20:21 ?messages-loud 05:20:22 Bike said 3d 11h 3m 31s ago: i don't think opencl c even has provisions for exceptions 05:20:29 -!- CADD has joined. 05:21:33 hi ion 05:21:39 hachaf 05:22:36 Vorpal: regarding your claim that 'nobody in "real life"' cares about gendered language, https://github.com/joyent/libuv/pull/1015 has about 50 people posting in the space of a few hours to say that they do in fact care 05:22:55 mostly men, some women, many people with "real names" and geographic locations in their github profiles 05:24:26 I have played Dungeons&Dragons game on Wednesday; I have almost disabled the prisoner; he is now in a coma. 05:24:54 what will you do now? 05:26:23 Ensure he is disabled some more, would be the next thing to do. And if the captain gets angry, work around that, too (possibly with illusions). 05:26:40 use your illusion 05:27:58 O no, I don't want to waste it. 05:29:32 silly kmc, internet people aren't real 05:29:35 and nor are people who disagree with me 05:29:47 it's possible that i'm not helping right now 05:31:07 :3 05:31:25 if i'm not real how do you explain my invention of the steam-powered bike gear 05:31:47 shachaf: i visited https://twitter.com/catcafecalico while I was in Japan 05:31:51 :3 :3 :3 05:32:01 i like cats 05:32:56 imo there should be a pointless cat 05:34:36 What’s a catca and what’s fecal ico? 05:36:02 kmc: good pull request comments 05:36:06 i like how there's always that person 05:36:07 thx 05:36:13 ion: oof 05:36:19 shachaf: Or fifty of “that person”s. 05:36:21 ion: see that can't happen in Hangul!! best writing system ever 05:37:00 great, now i want to see korean puns. 05:37:55 I don’t understand why the world hasn’t just switched to Hangul. 05:37:57 ion: in this case it looked like there were only a few 05:38:10 shachaf: "stop wasting your time on this issue!" *ensures that even a trivial fix becomes a multi-hour fight* 05:38:47 ion: it's not so great if your language doesn't conform to Korean phonetics 05:38:57 if you like distinguishing "r" from "l" or "g" from "k", for example 05:38:58 The Internet fight or fight response 05:39:01 Most languages don't. :-( 05:39:11 Perhaps we should invent a writing system to end all writing systems. 05:39:30 @google xkcd standards 05:39:31 http://xkcd.com/927/ 05:39:31 Title: xkcd: Standards 05:41:31 blissymbols 05:41:37 Hangul is not a bad system, although you can definitely make up a lot of new kinds, for conlangs and whatever else you like to do; I don't really like the IPA symbols which are racist and inelegant; I would prefer to compose symbols based on if it is dental, approximant, etc, even for impossible combinations, sounds out of human range, simultaneous speech, implied but unspoken sounds, and so on. 05:41:53 And Blissymbols is OK too, for meaning rather than sound. 05:42:14 None of these are perfect though, and probably they cannot really intended to be anyways. 05:42:31 zzo38: you should invent a writing system 05:42:38 and serve documents written in it via gopher 05:44:18 * kmc = 기간 미갈읏텔 ? 05:44:40 what the hell 05:45:00 are those just normal hangul? my term font is terrible 05:45:11 they're copypasted from google translate 05:45:49 gi gan mi gal eus tel 05:46:01 creative 'mcallister' i must say 05:46:03 kmc: i like how "only women actually care about this" and "only men actually care about this" are both arguments against making the change 05:46:27 yep 05:46:28 Sure I could serve them by gopher or whatever protocol, although probably if I was making such a thing I should write the METAFONT programs to draw the symbols in such a writing system. 05:48:17 사캅 벤-기기? no idea how to do "chaf" tbqh 05:48:39 and s/sh didn't seem to be distinguished, based on reading hangul on street signs in japan >_> 05:49:09 Bike: yeah well like I said, l/r and g/k are the same 05:49:11 That's OK, no one really does. 05:49:18 i know, i'm just amused 05:49:21 :D 05:49:49 Are g/k the same? 05:50:03 http://josefwigren.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/full-hangul.jpg has separate g and k 05:50:18 hm 05:50:24 colorful :) 05:50:30 oh i forgot about that letter 05:50:38 what are the greyed out ones. 05:50:48 the forbidden notes 05:50:58 the black keys 05:51:03 :o 05:51:26 should i learn hangul 05:52:05 you could learn korean. 05:52:19 that sounds like a lot more trouble than learning an alphabet 05:52:24 i want to learn korean 05:52:26 but don't know how 05:52:31 gotta get some books or something 05:52:34 books are a lot of effort 05:52:47 move to samsung digital city 05:53:15 i like that it has ᄋ 05:53:31 because that poor consonant is disregarded in many languages 05:53:35 :ᄋ 05:54:39 hebrew has it, though 05:54:52 since there is also a vaguely kind of similar system of consonants and vowels 05:56:31 you mean the one that gets transliterated as "ng"? 05:56:46 Wait, maybe I'm mixing things up. 05:56:55 What's "ng"? 05:57:26 ᄋ can also appear as an initial but there it means nothing at all 05:57:57 Right, that's the usage I mean. It can appear as non-initial? 05:58:24 "nothing at all", not even a glottal stop? 05:58:26 yes, as a final consonant it's "ng" 05:58:43 That's odd. I thought this alphabet was supposed to make sense. :-( 05:59:13 as in 삼성 "samseong" 05:59:51 shachaf: they used to be separate but got conflated down the line 05:59:51 Star Trek Tᄋ 05:59:56 >_< 06:00:04 hangul had more letters back when it was supposed to represent all the sounds in Classical Chinese 06:00:25 how much of the phonology of classical chinese do we actually know 06:00:53 So do you pronounce it as a glottal stop or do you slur syllables together? 06:00:59 i don't know man 06:01:07 i ought to learn korean though 06:01:20 why not finnish 06:01:35 a language with no gendered third-person pronouns 06:02:00 why not Zoidberg 06:02:31 should i also learn korean 06:02:42 We should all switch to Lojban 06:02:46 you should learn double korean. 06:08:43 Help, i seem unable to get in touch with Simon Marlow. I have sent a message on Google+ and two messages on IRC on different days. 06:09:33 He was online in IRC aa few days ago. 06:10:03 By a few days ago I mean, uh, earlier today. 06:10:14 Oh, you sent IRC messages. 06:10:31 You could try email? 06:11:03 I’ll try email next. But one would think Google+ and IRC would, like, work. 06:12:06 I didn't know there was such a thing as a Google+ message. 06:12:43 Maybe he prefers Facebook messages. 06:13:37 If you send messages to non-Facebook friends on Facebook, they won’t get notified. They’ll see the message if they happen to check out the obscure “probably spam” place nobody checks. 06:14:16 Perhaps Google+ does something similar, but that’s why i tried to contact him on IRC after no response. 06:14:49 Maybe you can go work at Facebook and then send him an internal message. 06:15:18 Perhaps i could become a billionaire, buy Facebook and send him a memo from the boss. 06:16:20 p. sure there are better things to buy at that price 06:20:49 Some people abbreviate the Finnish word “eli” (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eli#Finnish) as “l.” That’s like abbreviating “pretty” as “r.” 06:21:23 The name of the letter l isn’t “el” either, it’s “äl”, so that doesn’t explain it either. 06:21:43 Also, why abbreviate a three-letter word? :-P 06:22:17 not to be confused with "ål" 06:22:36 verily 06:22:45 en långsträckt fisk med säreget fortplantningsbeteende 06:22:49 FWIW, there’s no å in Finnish 06:22:57 right 06:23:37 and there's no l in christmas 06:23:54 Depends on how you pronounce r 06:23:59 säreget fortplantningsbeteende och uppskattat kött 06:24:11 (the joke is noel) 06:24:19 g. joke 06:24:27 saturnalia – both r and l! 06:26:23 ion: do they in finland that russian has n different 's's 06:26:29 for some value of n 06:26:37 say 06:26:47 I think you a verb. 06:27:31 for some value of finland 06:31:18 `run echo $'#!/usr/bin/env python\n# coding: rot-13\ncevag h"Uryyb, Jbeyq!"\n' > /tmp/whoaaa.py; chmod +x /tmp/whoaaa.py; /tmp/whoaaa.py 06:31:20 Hello, World! 06:31:29 i need to learn enough korean to implement `안녕하세요 anyway 06:32:47 shachaf: whoa, dude 06:32:49 Python has that? 06:32:59 Why doesn’t Haskell have that‽ 06:33:03 lifthrasiir: Maybe you can implement `안녕하세요 for us? 06:34:06 ion: ghc -pgmF hth 06:34:27 kmc: That’s GHC. :-( 06:34:38 "everyone knows haskell is really just ghc" 06:34:43 Fair enough. 06:37:17 What I think it should include is some way to convert identifiers containing non-ASCII characters into ASCII 06:39:21 > let 안녕 = "hello" in 안녕 06:39:22 "hello" 06:40:48 For example, there could be some extension to support a declaration like "\49493\12920\122223" = magic; and then it will treat "magic" as a synonym for the non-ASCII identifier. 06:44:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:00:06 However, in this Dungeons&Dragons game, I did notice a hole in the floor in the bedroom hallway, directly above the prison cell. It is a small hole, but large enough for a coin or leech or small key to fit. Perhaps this key was intended that someone might drop it into this hole? (I am not going to do that, though.) 07:20:49 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:42:31 Is any cellular automaton a convolution filter followed by a scalar function on each cell? From what I can tell, they are able to be represented in this way; Conway's Game of Life can easily be done like this, for example. 08:05:03 mostly depends what you mean by "cellular automaton", I expect 08:08:09 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:14:07 What do *you* mean by "cellular automatic"? 08:15:23 -!- rdococ_ has joined. 08:15:32 well, what if I make a CA where each cell computes a complicated nonlinear function of its neighbors 08:15:33 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 08:15:42 that would not fit in your scheme right? 08:16:03 I suppose then it wouldn't, if the number of states isn't finite 08:16:12 So you are correct about that 08:16:18 and if it is finite then it still works? 08:17:15 I expect it to (although maybe if something else strange is done, it might not?) 08:18:04 -!- rdococ_ has changed nick to Halite. 08:19:10 If the number of states is infinite though, then I would think a convolution followed by a scalar (even if nonlinear) function would still work in *some* cases, but not all 08:19:11 -!- Halite has quit (Changing host). 08:19:11 -!- Halite has joined. 08:19:11 -!- Halite has quit (Changing host). 08:19:11 -!- Halite has joined. 08:38:33 -!- kmc has set topic: SUNTORY BOSS is the boss of them all since 1992 | Although maybe if something else strange is done, it might not? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 08:47:02 -!- L8D has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:11 While playing backgammon earlier this week, I have noticed that although doubles will give you more moves, it also makes you more likely to get stuck, so there is that counterbalance involved. 09:01:48 -!- ruddy has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:07:35 I have, even before, noticed how sequent calculus can be considered as a game between two players, the first player who selects a rule and applies all variables, and the second player must select a sequent above the line to continue with. Whoever has no legal moves loses. I think there are also other ways to consider a logic as a game, but I do not know what they are or how they work. Do you know? 09:11:29 it's common (and useful imo) to view predicate logic as a game between two players, ∃ and ∀ 09:11:51 A proof of some sequent then corresponds to a strategy for the first player to be guaranteed to win from such a position. 09:11:58 mhm 09:12:14 kmc: I have read about that, but didn't study it much to know much about how such thing is working. 09:15:28 put a formal in prenex normal form, then ∃ and ∀ take turns selecting values for their respective variables; ∃ wins (and the formula is true) if they end up at a true propositional statement, ∀ wins (and it's false) if they end up at a false one 09:15:34 i think that's how it goes 09:16:16 it might not be that useful to view totally abstract logic this way, but thinking about two players has helped me keep straight complicated quantifiers in e.g. definitions of continuity, or VC-dimension, or what have you 09:17:03 O, I can understand now, how you mean! 09:19:51 recall that TQBF / QSAT is PSPACE-complete, so any problem in PSPACE can be phrased as such a game 09:20:17 I don't know whether or not it useful to view abstract logic in such a way either, however, I have noticed that it can be made up other way around; first make up the game and then the sequent calculus which implements such a game. For example a subtraction game where the first player wins with numbers that aren't divisible by four, encode such a thing in sequent calculus and that is one way to define the logical system where theorems are numbers wh 09:20:34 also sometimes you have another player "Nature" who chooses randomly, and then you can talk about the probability of ∀ or ∃ winning 09:21:09 kmc: O, OK, you can have that too. I didn't think of quite that, but I did think of similar things actually. 09:21:12 and then there are things like interactive proof systems or Arthur-Merlin proofs or zero-knowledge proofs, which are also phrased as games between multiple players, usually with access to randomness and some (possibly differing) bounds on their computational power 09:23:20 zero knowledge proofs are so cool 09:23:51 OK 09:25:47 I do not know what "Arthur-Merlin proofs" means, however. 09:26:03 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur%E2%80%93Merlin_protocol 09:27:22 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:27:31 Notice that in the system I have defined, draws may be possible (although I find it is usually useful to consider draws as a win for the second player, or at least draws by repetition, anyways) 09:31:11 OK, now I looked at Arthur-Merlin 09:45:17 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:45:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:45:21 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:45:44 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:45:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:45:48 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:46:04 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:46:08 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:46:09 -!- esowiki has joined. 09:46:18 -!- glogbot has joined. 09:46:20 [freenode-info] if you're at a conference and other people are having trouble connecting, please mention it to staff: http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp 09:52:04 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 10:08:39 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:19:33 -!- Taneb has joined. 10:35:36 why is there no cat cafe in san francisco 10:42:24 when I said "put a formal" above i meant "put a formula" 10:43:09 kmc, what is a cat cafe 10:44:22 only the best sort of retail establishment there is!!!! 10:44:45 it's a cafe and a bunch of cats live at the cafe and you can pet / play with / snuggle with the cats at the cafe 10:48:51 imo get a cat 10:49:15 thats different 10:49:16 then your house can be a cat cafe and i can visit and pet / play with / snuggle 10:51:17 Cats are the cats. 10:51:45 I want to go to a cat cafe 10:52:16 do cat cafes dispose of cats in evil ways when they get old 10:52:16 If an oscilloscope can be set to display vectors, why do we still use pixels? 10:52:33 I don't think there's a cat cafe in the whole of Finland. 10:53:22 -!- yorick has joined. 10:53:47 `unicode ARABIC LIGATURE UIGHUR KIRGHIZ YEH WITH HAMZA ABOVE WITH ALEF MAKSURA ISOLATED FORM 10:53:51 ​ﯹ 10:54:03 There is one in England and they are making another 10:54:04 With a name that long, you'd think it'd be more impressive. 10:54:06 wb Halite 10:54:12 But they make them in very far away places 10:56:03 they have some in Paris, Berlin, and München as well 10:56:18 and Budapest 10:56:21 all the cool places 10:56:23 There are none in York or Hexham 10:56:25 sorry hexham 10:56:57 i suggest moving to Berlin or Seoul 10:57:08 although, Finland is a cool place and doesn't have one 10:59:06 Halite: lots of reasons, one is that LCDs are a lot nicer than CRTs (and OLED displays nicer yet) and they're inherently pixel-oriented 11:01:13 vector graphics doesn't really do full color images, shading, etc. 11:01:48 you can have graphics stacks that mix vector and raster pretty far down the pipeline, but you want something uniform when you actually send graphics to a display device, and pixels make sense there 11:02:19 some old video games did use vector graphics and directly control the deflection of a CRT beam in the manner of an oscilloscope 11:02:31 http://www.jmargolin.com/vgens/vgens.htm has an incredible amount of detail on how that works 11:03:16 an original _Asteroids_ game looks absolutely stunning 11:04:12 brilliant bright white CRT with beautiful trails and perfectly smooth lines 11:04:16 monochrome so there's no shadow mask even 11:04:18 Can and do vector LEDs exist? 11:05:06 maybe ... thinking of laser printers 11:05:30 the objects are drawn by a 10-bit DAC so there's a notional 1024x1024 resolution, which is already very high for 1979, but also I believe that straight lines get smoothly interpolated between those points 11:05:39 in theory you could also do smooth circles etc. with analog oscillator circuits 11:06:26 Halite: I don't think "vector LEDs" refers to any kind of well-defined thing... you could invent a vector display technology that uses LEDs in some capacity and call it "vector LED", sure, but it would be pretty different from either a CRT or a traditional LED or LCD display 11:06:53 (But that involves mechanical mirrors. Now I'm sure you can do some fance micromechanics stuff and make it work, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for that. :) ) 11:06:59 Is it possible? 11:07:09 is what possible 11:08:22 * int-e is pondering how to actually control a beam of laser light in CRT like fashion. 11:08:45 stupid photons with their zero electrical charge 11:09:09 (laser printers cheat; they just deflect the beam along a single scan line and rely on the printing drum's rotation for vertical displacement) 11:09:22 there is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro-optic_effect 11:09:29 specifically http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pockels_effect and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerr_effect 11:10:12 I think Media Lab used one of these in their "trillion frame per second" camera 11:10:38 And even laser printers to have be getting replaced by LED printers, because they take less space and less delicate mechanics; building a row of many LEDs is chepaer. 11:10:49 interesting 11:10:58 kmc: nice. 11:11:41 http://web.media.mit.edu/~raskar/trillionfps/ 11:13:13 urgh, what did I do to that sentence? s/to have be/are/ 11:13:15 or maybe not, maybe it was just a material which produces electrons when hit by light, and they deflected those electrostatically 11:14:00 either way the idea is to vary the electric field rapidly so that photons coming from a single point end up spread across a linear detector according to the time they arrived, with picosecond resolution 11:15:15 and you do that again and again for many points in a scene, illuminated by laser pulses the same way each time 11:15:23 and there's your "trillion frame per second" movie 11:16:00 http://1.2.3.11/bmi/www.mit.edu/~velten/press/content/pictures/bottle_photo.jpg looks silly. (note the lack of absence of trade marks) 11:17:56 What's that 1.2.3.11/bmi stuff? 11:18:26 (Link didn't work for me with that; worked without.) 11:18:44 fizzie: a "transparent" proxy that I keep forgetting about. 11:19:03 so the correct link is http://www.mit.edu/~velten/press/content/pictures/bottle_photo.jpg 11:19:34 does your organization legit own 1.2.3? 11:20:08 i spent a few summers at the school which owns 129.186.*.* ; that was super confusing 11:20:12 wonder if they got it at a discount 11:20:19 1.2.3.0/24 was reserved for bogonity, IIRC. 11:20:47 inetnum: 1.2.3.0 - 1.2.3.255; netname: Debogon-prefix. 11:20:58 ah 11:21:02 what does that mean exactly 11:21:15 (It's part of APNIC's range, I remember reading about it when they were introducing 1/8. Both the /24's containing 1.1.1.1 and 1.2.3.4 were reserved.) 11:21:34 kmc: certainly not. (it's a mobile ISP, I'm sure they don't really care about RFCs as long as most customers are happy) 11:21:51 so are they available for private use in the same manner as 10/8 and 192.168/16? 11:21:54 s/are happy/don't complain/ 11:21:56 or are you "not supposed to use them" in some way 11:22:02 You're not supposed to use them, no. 11:22:09 and I have no clue why they aren't using 10.* 11:22:35 Perhaps they were already using 10.* for some other internal purpose. 11:22:44 (I mean, they do use it; my assigned IP is 10.165.126.240) 11:22:55 also I'm amused that MIT can't get any official IPv6 space because IANA is still pissed off that they own 1/256 of the entire IPv4 space 11:24:12 Wait ... 11:24:48 I didn't know that, that is funny. How are they expecting MIT to move off the IPv4 space if they don't even get IPv6 space to migrate to? 11:25:12 well I don't know the details, but probably they have to commit to give it back eventually, or something, and MIT is unwilling to do it? 11:25:15 i don't know really 11:25:23 heard this second- or third-hand 11:25:58 On a different topic, can a vector image composed of lines be separated into a raster image and the slope of the line at each point on each rasterisation? 11:26:46 Halite: I'm not sure what you mean but it sounds like you want to chop up a single vector image into a grid of many vector images (one per "pixel") and yes, you can do that 11:29:13 Well, kind of 11:33:54 Anyway, is it also possible to create a perfect zoom system for raster images? 11:38:43 depends what you mean by "perfect zoom system" but probably no 11:39:33 definitely you can't take a raster photograph and zoom in arbitrarily far 11:39:42 there's a finite amount of information in the original photograph 11:40:38 if your raster image is actually a line drawing, you can try to convert back to a vector image and zoom on that 11:40:49 this sounds relevant: http://null-ptr.blogspot.co.at/2008/06/vector-representation-of-fonts-on-gpu.html (I believe I've even seen a paper with a similar idea somewhere, but I don't remember any details.) 11:41:35 (Not related to "perfect zooming" but to the previous idea of assigning vector images to pixels) 11:42:37 and of course there's all the marching cubes stuff that is also related somehow. 11:44:13 1987. old :) 11:46:21 oh, "meandering triangles" is a cute term. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marching_squares#Meandering_triangles ) 11:50:29 :) 11:53:41 My battery power is so freaking low 11:57:32 How low can my battery get before my iPad refuses to budge? 11:57:40 Have a guess. 11:58:05 i could not care less 11:59:48 8-10% so far 12:00:11 5-8% now 12:00:22 Wifi gone 12:00:59 Or 10-based bound gone 12:01:19 please redirect these updates to #esoteric-halites-ipad 12:01:41 or /dev/null 12:01:43 Oh haws I'm monologue nag yet again 12:01:57 not sure what all those words are, but yes 12:01:58 Keyboard feeling sad 12:16:11 …​ 12:21:25 ... 12:26:07 ꙮꙮꙮ 12:28:10 ꙭꙬꙪ 12:28:57 -!- carado has joined. 12:34:51 ⠈⠞ ⠐⠼ ⠵⠂ ⠠⠵ 12:36:59 . o O ( how do you produce ⪓ in (La)TeX? ) 12:39:50 int-e: nice! 12:42:06 I have something to show you on the PC 12:42:52 -!- Halite has changed nick to Halite[tablet]. 12:43:38 -!- Halite[PC] has joined. 12:44:08 int-e: use 12:46:06 Anyway I wanted to show you https://www.dropbox.com/s/cpujagd162oos0x/JSB%20File%20format.html -- I made it earlier this year. I'd like a bit of advice on how to make the format vector. 12:46:41 Warning: don't try to go on it in Internet Explorer 12:53:10 * int-e feels reminded of http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/1994-10-17/ 12:53:48 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 12:54:29 ?? 12:54:36 I'm trying to make it right now 12:54:51 Heck, cant find the file I saved 12:56:45 http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGTiny12/single-page.html ... that's really stretching the meaning of the word "tiny". 12:59:03 hmm 12:59:59 What if we could mix pixel and vector displays so we can fill while being of high quality? The vector display could override to prevent filling problems. 13:00:48 anyway, that's why I had this association; defining a vector graphics format is a bottomless pit. it's easy enough to hack something together that supports straight lines and filling with solid colors, but people tend to want gradients, transparency, curves, various line styles, arrows on lines, clipping, and so forth. 13:00:58 int-e: Closest I know is \lesseqqgtr from amssymb; that's the ⪋ -- but of course it's not quite the same. (Supplemental Mathematical Operator is very good when it comes to s and slanted -s. 13:01:21 fizzie: Oh sorry, that was a rhetorical question. I don't actually need the symbol. :) 13:02:14 they'll have to approximate curves :p 13:10:05 yay made it 13:10:30 $3 {\leq \atop \geq} 4$ looks ok to me 13:10:57 anyway what a profoundly useless symbol?! 13:18:42 nooodl: hmm, your \geq is \geqslant? 13:19:18 it isn't, i just didn't consider the slant important 13:21:18 Unicode makes a difference there. 13:21:25 (And therefore so should you.) 13:27:06 -!- muskrat has joined. 13:30:59 I am trying arcs though 13:31:15 Hmm 13:39:32 ⣶⣀⣶⢀⡤⢤⡀⢲⡆⠐⣶⠀⣠⠤⣄ 13:39:32 ⠿⠀⠿⠘⠯⠭⠅⠼⠧⠠⠿⠄⠻⠤⠟ 13:39:34 these are cute 13:40:25 I like the regular 2x2 grid blocks. 13:40:39 ▌▌▗ ▐ ▐ ▗ ▟▖▌ ▗ ▖▖▗ 13:40:40 ▛▌▛▘▐ ▐ ▌▌ ▐ ▛▖▛▘▛ ▛▘ 13:40:40 ▘▘▝▘ ▘ ▘▝ ▘▘▘▝▘▘ ▝▘ 13:41:29 (Better resolution with the dots though, that's for sure.) 13:43:32 braille abuse. 13:45:39 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 13:51:57 My standard JSON bitmap file would be .jsb, but now I've made .vjsb 13:53:15 So far an image would contain arrays of the for max,ya,xb,yb, 13:53:24 Form ax* 13:55:36 E.g. Bitmap [row, row, row, ...] where row is a colour array, vector [[colour, xa, ya, xb, yb], ...] 13:58:37 https://www.dropbox.com/s/rh5r0wgbikq61va/JSB%20Vector%20format.html it's worth a try 14:00:49 -!- L8D has joined. 14:01:02 ░█▀█░█░█░░░█░█░█▀▀░█▀█░█░█ 14:01:05 ░█░█░█▀█░░░░█░░█▀▀░█▀█░█▀█ 14:01:08 ░▀▀▀░▀░▀░░░░▀░░▀▀▀░▀░▀░▀░▀ 14:03:02 FreeFull: Cool. Now make that in JSB vector form using the link I provided. 14:08:42 -!- Sgeo has joined. 14:11:35 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:15:47 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 14:15:58 Halite[PC]: I can't find anything about that format 14:16:09 Ah, you just made it 14:16:51 [0,0,10,10,0,10,10,0] is a cross? 14:18:16 [[colour,0,0,10,10], [colour,0,10,10,0]] would be the right one, I think 14:18:48 nortti: yep 14:19:08 well actuall 14:19:12 ah, fair enough. 14:19:17 what format is the colour in? 14:19:41 [[colour, "0", "0", "10", "10"], [colour,"0", "10", "10", "0"]] 14:19:48 colour is hex 14:20:06 ah 14:21:06 Oh, it just draws lines 14:21:11 so far 14:21:20 doesnt mean I can't change it 14:25:32 [["red",0,0,30,30],["red",0,30,30,0],["blue",30,15,34,4],["blue",34,4,45,0],["blue",45,0,56,4],["blue",56,4,60,15],["blue",60,15,56,26],["blue",56,26,45,30],["blue",45,30,34,26],["blue",34,26,30,15]] 14:26:20 cool! 14:26:47 why are you using '[]' instead of '()' ? 14:26:52 ["l"/*line*/,style,x0,y0,x1,y1,x2,y2,...] 14:27:04 nortti: the thing is read as arrays 14:27:08 ah 14:27:10 an array of arrays 14:27:13 "Square brackets hold arrays" 14:27:53 JSON has no parentheses as far as I know. 14:28:09 And I'm using json 14:28:15 oh 14:28:18 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 14:28:21 I see 14:28:29 great for data types 14:29:05 that said I'm happy to read ["l","red",0,30,30,0] as (l 'red 0 30 30 0) :) 14:29:34 I see you're using "l" as future syntax to denote that the object is indeed a line and not a curve? 14:29:42 I might use "line" for that 14:30:16 well, not a (filled) polygon, was my idea 14:31:09 but the main point was that there should be *some* sort of marker to make the thing extensible. 14:32:14 I will indeed add one as the format expands 14:32:42 Who can make an image of a stickman? :D 14:34:37 ask this guy? http://www.etch-a-sketchartist.com/etchasketches/ 14:34:54 Ha? 14:35:19 LOL 14:38:03 http://www.gvartwork.com/gvetchedintime/gallery.php -- this guy is better, and still active. 14:38:53 epic 14:39:16 I have to say arrays seem boring 14:40:48 . 14:42:59 shitty stick figure: [["#ffffff", 1,0, 6,0], ["#ffffff", 1,0, 1,5], ["#ffffff", 6,0, 6,5], ["#ffffff", 1,0, 6,5], ["#ffffff", 3,5, 3,10], ["#ffffff", 3,6, 0,9], ["#ffffff", 3,6, 6,9], ["#ffffff", 3,10, 0,13], ["#ffffff", 3,10, 6,13]] 14:45:59 white on white. 14:45:59 #ffffff makes it entirely white 14:47:32 and its head is an N even if you do make it #000000 14:47:50 at this rate I'll have to set bg notation 14:48:29 k done bg notation 14:48:43 now do [bg, [line], [line], ...] 14:49:06 eg. ["#000FFF", ["#ffffff", 1,5, 5,6]] 14:49:07 ["#000000", ["#ffffff", 1,0, 6,0], ["#ffffff", 1,0, 1,5], ["#ffffff", 6,0, 6,5], ["#ffffff", 1,0, 6,5], ["#ffffff", 3,5, 3,10], ["#ffffff", 3,6, 0,9], ["#ffffff", 3,6, 6,9], ["#ffffff", 3,10, 0,13], ["#ffffff", 3,10, 6,13]] 14:49:43 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:50:02 scaled up: [["#000", 110,100, 160,100], ["#000", 110,100, 110,150], ["#000", 160,100, 160,150], ["#000", 110,150, 160,150], ["#000", 130,150, 130,200], ["#000", 130,160, 100,190], ["#000", 130,160, 160,190], ["#000", 130,200, 100,230], ["#000", 130,200, 160,230]] 14:50:12 fourth line is incorrect nortti 14:50:22 anyway. 14:50:39 ["#fff", ["#000", 110,100, 160,100], ["#000", 110,100, 110,150], ["#000", 160,100, 160,150], ["#000", 110,150, 160,150], ["#000", 130,150, 130,200], ["#000", 130,160, 100,190], ["#000", 130,160, 160,190], ["#000", 130,200, 100,230], ["#000", 130,200, 160,230]] 14:50:49 are you even trying it? 14:51:26 well when you add the bg it works 14:52:01 Halite[PC]: you changed the format :P 14:52:08 slightly yeah 14:52:11 and told you 14:52:16 now do [bg, [line], [line], ...] 14:52:25 ^^ quote from previously ^^ 14:55:04 http://lpaste.net/5940427395184984064 rainbow spiral! 14:55:15 * int-e is staring at carry patterns for Zeckenhaus addition ... they look funny. 14:55:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:55:25 should add a background i guess 14:55:30 ["black", that] 14:56:04 so cool nooodl 14:56:18 seemed to work without onw 14:56:27 but maybe a line was missed 14:56:56 yep line miss 14:57:16 -!- muskrat has joined. 14:58:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:58:43 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 14:59:26 e.g. http://sprunge.us/WDdd 15:01:56 Updated. Now accepts no bg. 15:02:49 wait 15:03:21 nvm 15:06:33 no bg deal 15:09:27 "What came first, the chicken or the egg?" "The red junglefowl. 15:11:54 Halite[PC]: coelurosaurians hth 15:13:27 It's a good answer. After all, the first chicken was born out of a junglefowl-chicken hybird's egg. 15:14:15 shachaf: i visited https://twitter.com/catcafecalico while I was in Japan <-- /me doesn't get whether that is a café for cats or with cats. also, what is with all the turkish trending on twitter? i guess besiktas might refer to the football team. 15:14:25 http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/020119.html ("Both of you want to buy the last can of dog food. This raises the question, who of you came first?") 15:14:46 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 15:15:04 i hate nichtlustig for not working with my custom css 15:15:24 lol 15:15:33 -!- Slereah has joined. 15:16:07 ok http://wandertokyo.com/cat-cafe-calico/ explains in english 15:16:53 for your coffee and toxoplasmosis needs. 15:17:25 * oerjan is probably infected anyway. 15:19:29 * oerjan wonders what might be the youngest ancestor of chickens that _didn't_ have eggs. 15:20:07 probably older than vertebrates. 15:21:05 well i guess it might have to be just before sex. 15:21:19 so something protozoan 15:24:08 int-e: don't look at today's comic hth 15:26:30 good old protozoan times 15:26:38 we never needed to urinate back then 15:26:40 oerjan: hmm. the usual. only one in ten of those are funny anyway :) 15:27:00 and ... another smiley. 15:27:46 anyway oerjan, we don't have eggs how do we multiply 15:28:28 Halite[PC]: women have egg cells. 15:29:21 true 15:29:30 bacteria do too in a way 15:29:35 wat 15:29:56 what came first, the bacteria or the egg cell 15:30:14 bacteria divide and conquer 15:30:19 twist: the bacteria were the egg cells all along? 15:30:57 i have a tooth like this after a biking accident http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/131031.html 15:31:22 i guess that means i should hunt down and kill the guy i collided with. or his teeth, maybe. 15:31:41 too bad i was too shocked to remember who it was. 15:31:57 "RADICAL TOOTH" hmm :) 15:32:47 but apparently, no tooth symbol in unicode 15:33:41 find the symbol for radical 15:33:53 √ 15:34:01 maybe there's a hieroglyph and you have to know the word for tooth in egyptian to find it. 15:35:21 I have a middle egyptian textbook 15:35:24 http://shapecatcher.com/ ? 15:35:25 I can check if you want 15:35:49 unfortunately Google Translate doesn't support egyptian 15:36:08 oh, that is broken atm 15:36:16 oh wait unicode doesn't even use the egyptian word, just a numbering scheme 15:36:20 Let's see the Gardiner egyptian hieroglyph sign list 15:36:33 Part D, PARTS OF THE HUMAN BODY 15:36:56 There is "lips with teeth" and "two lips and teeth" 15:37:41 PARTS OF MAMMALS has jawbone of an ox and tusk 15:38:37 又? 15:39:02 `unicode 9F6C 15:39:03 Unknown character. 15:39:10 `unicode 龉 15:39:11 Unknown character. 15:39:45 `unidecode 龉 15:39:46 ​[U+9F89 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9F89] 15:39:57 not much of a name there either. 15:40:28 Definition in English: uneven teeth; to disagree 15:41:03 `unicode 齬 15:41:05 Unknown character. 15:41:18 齬 is definitively 6f6c 15:41:35 `unidecode 齬 15:41:37 ​[U+9F6C CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9F6C] 15:41:50 And ... Definition in English: uneven teeth; to disagree 15:41:54 lovely. 15:42:08 `unidecode 15:42:10 ​[U+0002 DUNNO] 15:42:14 lol I dunno 15:42:22 is that one of those simplified vs. traditional ones? 15:42:25 `unidecode 15:42:27 ​[U+0002 DUNNO] [U+0003 DUNNO] [U+001F DUNNO] [U+001D DUNNO] 15:42:59 Slereah: unicode is not magic. only pain. 15:43:40 `unidecode Halite 15:43:42 ​[U+0048 LATIN CAPITAL LETTER H] [U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A] [U+006C LATIN SMALL LETTER L] [U+0069 LATIN SMALL LETTER I] [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0065 LATIN SMALL LETTER E] 15:44:06 48,61,6c,69,74,65 15:44:20 well, as far as I can see, one has four lambdas (I suppose those are the teeth?) and the other one has only one. 15:44:34 hmm http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/131023.html 15:46:46 Lemmings are a recurring theme. My favourite goes something like "You want me to buy a bicycle just because all your friends have one, too? ..." "... If all your friends were to jump off a bridge, would you also ..." "... Never mind. I'll buy you the bicycle." 15:47:46 `unidecode 15:47:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:47:48 No output. 15:48:35 Ah, not a bicycle, just a scooter. http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/020906.html 15:48:57 (and the bridge is a cliff.) 15:51:45 int-e: well if my family did then I would 15:52:38 int-e: something tells me you might be german 15:52:57 myname: that is interesting. what gave me away? 15:53:14 int-e: i can tell from being one myself ;) 15:53:47 wait do we have a german inflation here 15:53:50 -!- impomatic has joined. 15:54:20 you make it sound like it is something bad 15:54:36 well if we go by history there'll soon be billions of you 15:58:05 -!- int-e-19212451 has joined. 15:58:15 * int-e-19212451 grins at oerjan. 15:58:18 -!- int-e-19212451 has quit (Client Quit). 15:58:51 Is there a negative time period before the Big Bang? I've always wondered that 15:59:56 Halite[PC]: there's endless speculation? 16:01:03 The answer is maybe 16:01:04 the math breaks down. you can make all kinds of theories. 16:01:13 Well it doesn't really break down 16:01:20 But it hinges on some other things 16:02:18 i'm not sure PETA approves of this http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/130912.html 16:03:29 PETA is my urine. 16:04:14 I ATEP PETA. 16:10:33 i'd recommend buying more matching sets http://static.nichtlustig.de/toondb/130820.html 16:15:32 oerjan: btw I'm not sure whether you're trying to make me feel guilty about linking to that comic, but if so, you're succeeding. 16:15:51 OKAY 16:16:09 Ok. So. A language based on the knappsack problem makes no sense if you have infinite storage 16:16:42 The idea would have been, that a value N occupies N cells 16:17:17 lol 16:17:44 which is boring anyway 16:17:52 you could store N ones 16:18:02 and N zeroes 16:18:10 so it'd esseantilly be bitfuck 16:18:18 ergo -> boring 16:18:20 a value N could also take log_2(N) cells 16:18:57 which makes me think that a log_1(N) = N 16:19:35 Well 16:19:46 my second idea is that you have a 2D (or 1D) storage 16:19:53 and a value N distorts nearby cells 16:20:03 and the higher N, the higher and more cells it distorts 16:20:37 like uhm 256 distorts cell[i +- 1] by 128, cell[i +- 2] by 64 and so on 16:20:53 which is also boring, if you have infinite storage 16:21:02 (i.e just use every 1000iest cell) 16:21:14 Conclusion: Everything is boring if it has infinite storage. 16:21:36 Infinity is super boring. 16:22:01 Not if you mean transfinity 16:22:11 Then it's epic 16:22:59 I have no idea what that even is. 16:23:32 Is that the stuff that is larger than finite stuff 16:23:33 a number that is less than infinity and more than any finite number 16:23:35 but still not infinite? 16:23:41 there are multiple transfinite numbers 16:23:52 I have no idea how that would work 16:23:52 infinitely many infact 16:24:02 It does not make any sense at all (intuitively) 16:24:03 it's defined as the hyperreal numbers 16:24:08 well 16:24:11 How can something be bigger then finite 16:24:13 but not infinite 16:24:21 when everything that is not infinite, is probably finite 16:24:43 What I mean is that they ARE infinite but they're not always going to be equal another of their kind 16:24:58 so 16:25:00 e.g. let's say w is a transfinite ordinal. 2w > w. w+1 > w 16:25:11 so 16:25:12 but 2*infinity makes no sense 16:25:19 It avoids infinity + 1 == infinity? 16:25:40 it's not exactly infinity because there is a number more than w 16:25:55 and with w you can make an infinitesimal -- lets name it e 16:26:13 don't bother explaining it to me 16:26:17 I won't understand it. Seriously. 16:26:28 ... 16:27:11 I don't have enough math background to even understand the explanations ;) 16:27:34 I bet you have computational background though 16:28:00 Probably not, no. 16:28:33 I'm the guy who replaces your broken Ethernet Cable 16:28:57 oh... 16:29:23 Halite[PC]: 2w = w, you mean 2w > w hth 16:29:26 oops 16:29:29 wtf 16:29:38 I'm that kind of computer scientist 16:29:38 *Halite[PC]: 2w = w, you mean w2 > w hth 16:29:42 not really a scientist at all 16:30:18 oerjan: I understand. That's in the surreals. The hyperreals keep communative operations. 16:30:32 no, not surreals. ordinals. 16:30:48 ok thats it I don't like ordinals 16:30:59 * oerjan whistles innocently 16:31:46 (also 1+w = w) 16:31:54 that's like saying 1+2 = 2 16:32:03 or 2+1 = 1 16:32:17 no, it only holds for infinite w. 16:32:23 and precisely then. 16:32:54 the 2w = w holds for limit ordinals. 16:35:24 the limit of {-infinity, ..., x} is x. and that's an infinite set. 16:35:29 Halite[PC]: The only reason I'm here is because I read some paper thingies back when I was a teenager 16:35:33 like uhm 16:35:33 lambda calculus papers 16:35:35 and such 16:36:04 and I wrote interpreters etc. 16:36:59 Halite[PC]: is that supposed to contradict me somehow? 16:37:04 oerjan: You can just refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Omega-exp-omega-labeled.svg then it's all so clear. 16:37:09 (there are no negative ordinals.) 16:37:56 fizzie: thank you, i was pondering linking to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ordinal_arithmetic#Cantor_normal_form 16:38:10 the limit of {0, 1/w, 2/w, 3/w, ..., 1, 1 + 1/w, 1 + 2/w, ... x} is x 16:38:14 But that's not a picture at all. :/ 16:38:27 fizzie: true. 16:38:53 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 16:39:14 * oerjan has no(*) idea why Halite[PC] keeps dragging surreals and hyperreals into this. ((*) not true) 16:40:42 Ah yes. The practice of lieing then admitting. 16:41:13 it's so practical! 16:42:34 Hyperreals are pretty neat! 16:42:40 As well as DECEPTIVE 16:52:15 -!- muskrat has joined. 17:05:44 -!- Taneb has joined. 17:12:18 * FreeFull gets all surreal 17:12:50 Do you have an apple for a face 17:13:15 No but I have infinitessimals 17:25:37 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:33:47 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:41:54 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:07:15 I'm still on the search for a book abouth math 18:07:17 there seems to be none. 18:07:43 I have one about 17 equations that changed the world 18:07:53 I think that's at least partially about maths 18:08:02 One of them is actually an inequality which makes me sad 18:08:18 I'm looking for one that is ordered in order of discovery 18:08:35 so I can aquire math knowledge in the order that makes sense 18:08:38 :) 18:09:08 mroman_: http://www.math.wustl.edu/~sk/books/newhist.pdf ? :P 18:09:19 mroman_: also, the historical order frequently doesn't make sense 18:09:32 That can't be 18:09:35 @does not make sense 18:09:35 not make sense not available 18:10:33 When you learn math now you get teached stuff like uhm fourier stuff 18:10:40 but you don't actually know enough 18:10:51 it feels like you're missing something that was invented before that 18:11:41 I figured learning in historical order should prevent me from stumbling upon anything I don't know the basics of 18:11:44 mroman_: no seriously. frequently, the simplifying assumptions that make a topic teachable frequently come after the major theorems are discovered in another context 18:12:04 for instance, newton's calculus, which he used to do all that physics stuff 18:12:08 sucks 18:12:29 isn't that the same as leibniz's calculus? 18:12:46 mroman_: leibniz's notation is much better/easier to use 18:12:48 liebniz's was a bit better 18:13:09 but also, neither of them had any kind of rigorous foundation for it 18:13:29 it involved significant handwaving 18:14:11 and you put in some non-integrable function and stuff blows up and you don't know why 18:14:42 they basically didn't know what they were doing, but managed to get it right enough for physics anyway 18:15:47 yep 18:17:33 that said, i definitely wish i'd had more background before being taught fourier 18:18:28 i think it's pretty common to charge into it as quickly as possible for the benefit of the physicists in the audience 18:35:39 Maybe they had no idea what they were doing 18:35:48 but I'm sure they contributed a lot to math 18:56:10 -!- Bike has joined. 19:14:36 -!- Bike has left. 19:14:48 -!- Bike has joined. 19:18:54 i think the problem with newton's calculus is more that he did all this insane crap with geometry to deal with planets 19:19:07 seriously, have you tried reading the principia, it's crazy 19:28:16 i kind of sympathize with where mroman_'s coming from though, not that i'd actually recommend a fully historical order. mroman_, have you heard of "Mathematics: Its Content, Methods and Meaning"? it's supposed to be real good 19:32:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Quit: reboot). 19:33:53 -!- ais523 has joined. 19:39:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 19:58:59 I'm going to make a computer algebra system. Wish me luck. 20:01:48 Bike: What about Leibnitz's calculus? 20:04:23 what about it? 20:05:34 How does it compare to Newtons? I've never actually looked at the work Newton and Leibnitz did on calculus 20:05:51 beats me. i don't even know what he was using it for. 20:06:01 i've only read part of newton's because historians seem to like it. 20:06:11 i would guess that they're both near incomprehensible to my modern eyes, though! 20:07:08 Well, it probably took some time to settle on notation 20:07:45 not notation. the general forms of arguments. 20:08:08 this is like, practically before algebraicization. 20:08:31 they weren't just doing the same kind of math in a different alphabet, is what i'm sayin. 20:09:02 though this reminds me, did you know that the derivative was invented by pierre de fermat? 20:10:27 Writing everything out in words is notation too =P 20:10:45 Fermat was a smart guy, no doubt 20:11:52 they're different words, i'm telling you. 20:13:18 Probably latin 20:20:22 -!- zzo38 has joined. 20:23:56 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 20:28:11 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 20:28:13 -!- Bike has joined. 20:28:16 Did you know that the formulae for area of a circle are also related to other integral-based formulas in that they describe the 'inside' of a semantic or geometrical object? 20:28:42 you didn't learn that in calculus? 20:29:09 I self-taught myself. 20:29:23 i did so many problems about finding the volumes of ridiculous shapes, you don't even know 20:29:25 I should still have the knowledge of a child in Year 6. 20:29:55 what's the volume of gabriel's horn 20:30:35 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:31:13 -!- muskrat has joined. 20:31:27 sounds like a multiple of e 20:31:36 ~= 2.718281828459045 20:31:42 -!- muskrat has left. 20:32:31 nope 20:32:33 also you don't need to give me or anyone digits of e really 20:32:35 -!- muskrat has joined. 20:32:43 infinity 20:32:45 or 2 20:32:49 or ... -zzz- 20:33:41 i consider e much more beautiful than pi 20:34:02 i consider the dalles more beautiful than stupid numbers WHAT NOW NERD 20:35:04 -!- muskrat has quit (Client Quit). 20:36:24 there's a train across the entire horizon. 20:36:37 myname: same 20:36:47 myname: I absolutely hate pi 20:37:01 do i need to take some lunch money 20:37:43 Do you prefer to use 2pi as a constant? (When this is done, it is called tau, and I have used it in some programs such as a Csound extension which does this) 20:38:05 no 20:38:14 tau is stupid and bad and smarmy 20:38:20 i just write 'half the circumference of the unit circle' like gauss 20:38:22 as god intended 20:38:39 oh Taneb said ... in @tell 20:39:05 what about 4/3 pau? 20:39:14 Phantom_Hoover: Maybe, but it is sometimes useful (other times, using pi is useful; other times neither is useful) 20:39:30 basedgauss 20:39:44 But I do think e seems a more beautiful than pi, too, I suppose 20:40:09 that's it, give me your lunch money or i'll stuff you in a locker 20:40:22 Phantom_Hoover: Why is it 'smarmy'? Does that mean it is 'elegant'? 20:40:30 yes exactly 20:40:52 it's 'elegant', as interpreted by people whose concept of elegance comes from looking at pictures of fractals and videos by vi hart 20:41:23 ecks dee 20:42:02 i like vi hart :/ 20:42:29 i do too 20:42:32 AND YET 20:42:35 i liked 2pi before it was cool and/or called tau 20:42:45 remember http://www.math.utah.edu/~palais/pi.pdf 20:42:52 no 20:43:05 imo pi², comes up all the time!! in zeta functions!! 20:43:11 and who doesn't like zeta functions 20:43:12 Well, you cannot call a C macro "2pi" so I called it TAU 20:43:28 zzo38: you can call it pi2 20:43:38 anyway the way that pdf draws it is a pi with 3 legs 20:43:43 but that might be confused with Bike's Cool Constant, shachaf 20:43:52 you know it's good when it doesn't even have a unicode codepoint 20:43:53 http://xkcd.com/1292/ 20:43:59 it still needs a symbol, though 20:44:10 shachaf: I suppose if you want that symbol you could make a METAFONT program to draw it 20:44:14 Bike: zeta is based on integral, and integral brings a half factor 20:44:26 It doesn't need a Unicode codepoint 20:44:30 myname: no, it can just go away and be gone 20:44:33 WHOA A HALF FACTOR 20:44:48 yep you heard 20:44:48 shachaf: why? :D 20:46:01 i like the "everybody is equally fucked up" approach 20:46:03 I totally support tau. You can't have a constant which is half of some important value. It has to be that value. 20:46:10 Halite[PC]: Weren't you banned? 20:46:18 oh my glob. 20:46:24 Halite[PC]: tau^2/4 sucks 20:46:34 i think it was a temp ban or something 20:46:36 myname: (tau/2)^2 rocks 20:46:41 it does not 20:46:45 Oh, maybe it was just #haskell and related channels. 20:46:57 actually just #haskell 20:47:05 Halite[PC]: you can't have a constant which is double of some important value 20:47:08 And -lens and others. 20:47:16 myname: unfortunately pi is not an important value 20:47:22 For sending "creative" spam to the people who banned you. 20:48:00 Oh well. 20:48:52 also, pau is very handy for spheres, 2pau is much better than 4/3 pi or 2/3 tau! 20:49:10 oh my 20:49:13 'pau' 20:51:48 idk why all the mathematicians don't support tau 20:52:14 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 20:52:34 there's no reason to keep pi, all of the arguments for pi are just rewritten points that tau argued successifully against 20:52:42 because there is no reason to adapt tau :p 20:53:32 -!- shachaf has left. 20:54:41 Phantom_Hoover, ... 20:59:59 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:01:17 -!- Bike has joined. 21:09:29 Taneb, i was playing xcom the other day and there was some random npc called van doorn 21:09:37 :O 21:10:07 what's 48÷2(9+3) 21:10:19 Bike, 2 21:10:22 is this a trick question? 21:10:23 Phantom_Hoover, what did van doorn do 21:10:35 it looks like maybe a check to see how people will interpret associativity 21:10:40 ais523: no, it's just about as interesting as tau. 21:10:44 my answer is, "2 is not a function" 21:10:50 or alternatively, 2 is a function 21:10:52 hmm 21:11:01 is it a good function 21:11:12 it's \f -> f . f 21:11:20 @pl \f -> f . f 21:11:20 join (.) 21:11:23 that's pretty good. 21:11:54 i suppose 9 is the ninth power of a function, and so on? 21:12:14 Taneb, sat around on a burning bridge mostly 21:12:24 Bike: yes 21:12:38 this is how you do numbers in, say, Underload or Unlambda 21:12:43 looks like the expression still has problems, then. 21:14:25 2 is not a function unless there is a function instance for Num 21:14:54 In which case the answer is 24 21:14:59 we're interpreting the other numerals as functions as well, freefull. 21:15:16 well, 9+3 is the twelth-power function 21:15:25 so 2 is that function composed with itself 21:15:35 which is, umm, 144? 21:15:59 I'd expect 9+3 to be the same as 12, even if 9 and 3 are functions 21:16:16 yeah 21:16:43 a+b is defined as a(succ)(b) 21:17:29 clearly + should just be succ so you don't need to define that. 21:18:27 Bike: except that then it'd become nofix rather than infix 21:18:43 as god intended. 21:18:45 hmm… that sounds like an esolang idea 21:18:56 all the operators are nofix, just values 21:19:01 and the data are infix, postfix, etc. 21:26:01 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:27:23 -!- Bike has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:28:58 -!- Bike has joined. 21:36:41 https://events.ccc.de/congress/2013/wiki/Projects:Hammer_and_Tongs oh, neat. 21:43:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:47:43 if 2 is \f → f.f and 1 is id, what is 0? 21:48:04 easy, 0 21:48:17 -!- Bike has joined. 21:48:56 FreeFull: \f -> id, probably 21:49:21 interesting 21:50:48 FireFly* 21:51:28 yeah, 0 is \f -> id 21:51:39 That makes sense I suppose 21:51:43 -!- shachaf has joined. 21:53:10 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:54:10 It's just representing n as \f -> f^n 21:55:19 -!- Bike has joined. 21:55:47 kind of hard when you try to get negatives, eh 21:56:00 exercise for the bicycle 21:56:29 busycle 21:56:29 Bike: why? 21:56:38 Note that inhabitants of the type (forall a. (a -> a) -> a -> a) exactly correspond to the naturals. 21:56:54 -1 could be \xy.x 21:58:42 Or of the type (forall r. (Maybe r -> r) -> r), of course. I.e. Mu Maybe 21:58:51 hooray for mu 21:59:16 Mu Shachaf 21:59:50 Muion 21:59:53 does that sum with 1 right? 21:59:57 (\xy.x)(succ)(\x.x) => (\y.succ)(\x.x) => succ 22:06:05 -!- Halite[PC] has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 22:12:50 -!- Taneb has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:20:06 Guys, is there a theorem that says that all TC things have like 22:20:09 Five THINGS 22:20:30 I know there's one that the smallest Turing machines have 2 states, 3 symbols or vice versa 22:20:57 Logical combinators have 3 symbols, and two rules 22:21:18 OISC has three symbols, and I guess two possible behaviour? 22:21:22 I dunno 22:21:31 Just wondering if there's an overall rule for that 22:23:39 -!- muskrat has joined. 22:25:36 -!- muskrat has left. 22:27:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 22:27:15 Slereah: no 22:27:58 though i'll have to remember that next time i need to be discordian. 22:28:35 After all all algorithms can be defined by a set of symbol, a grammar and transformation rules 22:28:50 So I guess you might be able to put limits on it 22:28:59 basically 'things' isn't something you can generalize across. 22:30:38 i have five things am i tc 22:31:10 shachaf: no. 22:31:22 shachaf: you are clearly a finite state automaton 22:31:32 I have 99 problems but turing completeness isn't one of them 22:31:53 i have ninety-nine problems and it's probably possible to reduce about half of them to the halting problem. 22:33:14 i got 99 problems but an STD ain't one 22:38:45 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:39:53 -!- Bike has joined. 22:47:45 kmc: i like the joyent response. 22:52:00 can't help but laugh at 'consider yourself chided' 22:54:11 yeah 22:54:18 "God, this is so sad. This is the smallest amount of power I've ever seen go to someone's head." 22:55:36 clearly they never watched the green mile 22:55:38 also glad i'm getting this from someone who calls themselves 'wizandrist' 22:55:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:55:39 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 22:55:39 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:00:55 Bike: I'd say 98 problems are reducible 23:01:18 one of my problems is to count exactly how many of the problems are reducible to the halting problem. 23:01:31 For the 99th one, you can't figure out if the algorithm for creating an algorithm will ever halt 23:02:12 I guess it's generally undecidable whether problems reduce to the halting problem? 23:03:44 Any TNT string can be a halting problem for an oracle machine, I think. 23:05:07 Can you state your problem in TNT form in the first place though? 23:05:41 -!- ruddy has joined. 23:05:51 First to convert all of "forall" into "exists" (using the logical negation operators in order to do so), and then, to try them until one number succeeds the check. 23:06:12 FreeFull: Perhaps not; what is your problem anyways? 23:06:28 How to win at life 23:06:37 with brawndo 23:08:14 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 23:08:19 -!- Bike_ has joined. 23:15:50 -!- Bike_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 23:18:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:24:00 Stephen Wolfram sounds like an esolanger with too much money and power 23:24:52 `run echo "Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power." >wisdom/wolfram 23:24:56 No output. 23:25:06 NOW IT'S OFFICIAL 23:25:10 :O 23:25:27 (i apologize to all those who don't want to be in the same category as him.) 23:25:28 oerjan: should have mentioned the source 23:25:46 "Stephen Wolfrom is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him." 23:25:50 it's a different sort of esolanging 23:26:01 esolanging... 23:26:05 ok Taneb convinced me. 23:26:15 `run echo "Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him." >wisdom/wolfram 23:26:19 No output. 23:26:26 `? tanebventions 23:26:28 Tanebventions include D-modules, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, and Go. 23:26:59 `? automatic squirrel feeders 23:27:01 automatic squirrel feeders? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:27:03 :( 23:27:16 `run sed -i 's/torus,/torus, Stephen Wolfram,/' wisdom/tanebventions 23:27:17 sed: can't read wisdom/tanebventions: No such file or directory 23:27:22 oops 23:27:25 `run sed -i 's/torus,/torus, Stephen Wolfram,/' wisdom/tanebvention 23:27:28 No output. 23:28:02 `run ln -s wisdom/{stephen ,}wolfram 23:28:04 go? wtf? 23:28:06 No output. 23:28:12 `? stephen wolfram 23:28:13 stephen wolfram? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:28:15 `? Go 23:28:16 oops 23:28:17 Go is a common verbal game programming language invented by the Germanic Taneb tribes in the strategic territories of East Asia. 23:28:21 `? wolfram 23:28:23 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:28:44 oh wait 23:28:55 i don't even 23:28:58 `run ls wisdom/*wolfram 23:29:00 wisdom/wolfram 23:29:21 `run ln -s wisdom/{,"stephen "}wolfram 23:29:24 ln: accessing `wisdom/stephen wolfram': Not a directory 23:29:45 ok what does that expand to 23:30:06 `run echo wisdom/{,"stephen "}wolfram 23:30:07 wisdom/wolfram wisdom/stephen wolfram 23:30:35 `echo "Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them" > wisdom/automatic\ squirrel\ feeders # i got that wrong didn't i 23:30:37 ​"Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them" > wisdom/automatic\ squirrel\ feeders # i got that wrong didn't i 23:30:42 `run echo "Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them" > wisdom/automatic\ squirrel\ feeders # i got that wrong didn't i 23:30:46 No output. 23:30:47 oh wait 23:30:56 `? automatic squirrel feeders 23:30:58 Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them 23:31:07 `run ln -s wolfram wisdom/"stephen wolfram" 23:31:08 ln: accessing `wisdom/stephen wolfram': Not a directory 23:31:22 `which ln 23:31:23 ​/bin/ln 23:31:43 `ls wisdom/*wolfram 23:31:44 ls: cannot access wisdom/*wolfram: No such file or directory 23:31:48 `run ls wisdom/*wolfram 23:31:49 ls: cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory \ wisdom/wolfram 23:32:00 lol 23:32:06 `? wolfram 23:32:08 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:32:14 `? stephen wolfram 23:32:15 also, i like the automatic squirrel feeders 23:32:15 stephen wolfram? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:32:22 `run touch wisdom/"cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory" 23:32:23 touch: cannot touch `wisdom/cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory': No such file or directory 23:32:47 `ls -l wisdom 23:32:48 ls: invalid option -- ' ' \ Try `ls --help' for more information. 23:32:55 `run touch this 23:32:58 `run ls -d wisdom 23:32:59 No output. 23:33:00 `ls wisdom/"stephen wolfram" 23:33:01 As the wisdom directory contains many files named after nicks, listing it in public annoys people. Try https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf instead. 23:33:01 ls: cannot access wisdom/"stephen wolfram": No such file or directory 23:33:03 :( 23:33:09 `run ls wisdom/"stephen wolfram" 23:33:10 ls: cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory 23:33:17 `run rm wisdom/"stephen wolfram" 23:33:20 hey, this ls is broken 23:33:22 No output. 23:33:26 ls -d specifically doesn't list the contents of a directory 23:33:29 just the directory itself 23:33:39 You should remove that ls anyways 23:33:51 `run ls wisdom/ste* 23:33:52 The first few files aren't named after nicks, for one thing 23:33:53 ls: cannot access wisdom/ste*: No such file or directory 23:34:07 zzo38 has a point, although i don't like it. 23:35:00 `run ln -s wolfram wisdom/"stephen wolfram"; ? "stephen wolfram" 23:35:03 ln: creating symbolic link `wisdom/stephen wolfram': File exists \ bash: -: command not found 23:35:14 argh 23:35:24 am i getting the order wrong or something 23:36:30 `run ln -T -s wolfram wisdom/"stephen wolfram"; ? "stephen wolfram" 23:36:32 ln: creating symbolic link `wisdom/stephen wolfram': File exists \ bash: -: command not found 23:36:32 File exists means your rm doesn't seem to have worked 23:36:38 oh. 23:36:46 `? stephen wolfram 23:36:46 `ls wisdom/*wolfram 23:36:47 ls: cannot access wisdom/*wolfram: No such file or directory 23:36:48 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:36:49 Try /bin/ls instead of ls if you need to I suppose 23:36:54 `run ls wisdom/*wolfram 23:36:56 wisdom/stephen wolfram \ wisdom/wolfram 23:37:02 `run /bin/ls -d wisdom 23:37:02 wat. 23:37:03 wisdom 23:37:10 `? wolfram 23:37:12 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:37:19 ok it works? 23:37:26 `run ls -l wisdom/*wolfram 23:37:28 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 7 Nov 30 23:35 wisdom/stephen wolfram -> wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:26 wisdom/wolfram 23:37:30 `? run rm -f "wisdom/stephen wolfram" 23:37:32 run rm -f "wisdom/stephen wolfram"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:37:33 *sigh* 23:37:37 `run rm -f "wisdom/stephen wolfram" 23:37:41 No output. 23:37:48 `? stephen wolfram 23:37:50 stephen wolfram? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:37:55 oerjan: There you go 23:38:09 `? bc 23:38:11 bc ௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵௵ 23:38:18 FreeFull: "There you go, I broke it for you"? 23:38:41 fizzie: He's been trying to delete it 23:39:25 FreeFull: To create a symlink, which based on the last ls was already there. 23:40:01 Oh, didn't notice that 23:40:41 `run ln -s wisdom/wolfram "wisdom/stephen wolfram" && echo "success" 23:40:45 ln: accessing `wisdom/stephen wolfram': Not a directory 23:41:39 Yeah, I think you just generated the wrong symlink again. 23:41:43 `run ls -l wisdom/*wolfram 23:41:44 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 14 Nov 30 23:40 wisdom/stephen wolfram -> wisdom/wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:26 wisdom/wolfram 23:42:00 (That's supposed to point at "wolfram", not "wisdom/wolfram".) 23:42:08 Oh, you're right 23:42:20 XD 23:42:22 I thought that since it errored it wouldn't make a symlink though 23:42:36 aimake's symlink command has a more sensible argument pattern 23:42:41 `revert 23:42:42 Done. 23:42:43 you give the source and destination relative to . 23:42:52 and it automatically works out what should be put in the symlink 23:42:54 `run /bin/ls -l wisdom/*wolfram 23:42:55 ​-rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:26 wisdom/wolfram 23:43:01 `run ln -s wolfram "wisdom/stephen wolfram" 23:43:02 No output. 23:43:09 `? stephen wolfram 23:43:11 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:43:14 whew 23:43:21 oerjan saves the day 23:43:27 oerjan: Much ado about a Wolfram. 23:43:29 i have no idea why that didn't seem to work the first time i did it. 23:43:39 fizzie: that's the usual, isn't it 23:45:30 oh also 23:45:53 `run mv wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder"{s,} 23:45:57 No output. 23:45:58 *cough* 23:46:54 `run sed -i 's/$/./' wisdom/"automatic squirrel feeder" 23:46:58 No output. 23:47:06 `? automatic squirrel feeders 23:47:08 Automatic squirrel feeders are just feeders in the category of automatic squirrels. Taneb invented them. 23:48:54 `run grep "Taneb invented them." "wisdom/*" | wc -l 23:48:55 grep: wisdom/*: No such file or directory \ 0 23:49:03 `run grep "Taneb invented them." wisdom/* | wc -l 23:49:07 grep: wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory \ 3 23:49:13 Blah 23:49:36 What's up with this not a directory error 23:49:46 `ls wisdom/stephen wolfram 23:49:48 ls: cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory 23:50:01 `run ls wisdom/"stephen wolfram" 23:50:03 ls: cannot access wisdom/stephen wolfram: Not a directory 23:50:03 It's has magically turned to the wrong symlink again. 23:50:08 `run ls -l wisdom/*wolf* 23:50:10 lrwxrwxrwx 1 5000 0 14 Nov 30 23:45 wisdom/stephen wolfram -> wisdom/wolfram \ -rw-r--r-- 1 5000 0 83 Nov 30 23:26 wisdom/wolfram 23:50:10 -!- ais523 has quit. 23:50:14 `? stephen wolfram 23:50:16 stephen wolfram? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:50:19 I don't know what's up with that. 23:50:21 argh 23:50:23 How did that happen 23:50:45 oh whatever 23:51:24 `run rm "wisdom/stephen wolfram"; cp wisdom/{,"stephen "}wolfram 23:51:25 The repository browser has disapparated oerjan's fixups. 23:51:28 No output. 23:51:34 `? stephen wolfram 23:51:36 Stephen Wolfram is an esolanger with too much money and power. Taneb invented him. 23:51:43 `run grep "Taneb invented them." wisdom/* | wc -l 23:51:45 3 23:51:49 `run grep "Taneb invented" wisdom/* | wc -l 23:51:51 5 23:52:30 i guess there has been previous warnings that symbolic links don't work well with HackEgo. 23:52:33 `run grep -li 'taneb invented' wisdom/* 23:52:34 *have 23:52:36 wisdom/automatic squirrel feeder \ wisdom/d-module \ wisdom/stephen wolfram \ wisdom/torus \ wisdom/wolfram 23:52:47 Impressive list. 23:52:53 I hope he'll put all that in his CV. 23:53:01 -!- _46bit has joined. 23:53:07 <_46bit> Hi Taneb! 23:53:11 Hi 23:53:14 `relcome _46bit 23:53:17 ​_46bit: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 23:53:37 <_46bit> Esoteric bot welcome colouring as well! 23:54:01 Yup 23:54:03 `help 23:54:03 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 23:54:16 fungot, hi 23:54:17 Taneb: fnord __theo but i don't like 23:54:20 ^source 23:54:20 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 23:55:13 beware of _46bit, e's a massive multiplayer online krysz. 23:55:18 *-ly 23:56:42 also i suspect Taneb invented him. 23:56:56 what's a "TNT string"? 23:57:11 kmc: Something Hofstadter made up, I think. 23:57:23 kmc, it's a fuse for an explosive 23:57:32 a very unsafe text representation format. 23:57:58 It'd be interesting if wisdom factoids were actually scripts in some programming language 23:58:21 Bonus points for making all the current ones work fine in the new system 23:58:28 kmc, more seriously, it's a string in Typographical Number Theory 23:58:52 oh right