00:04:06 -!- aloril has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 00:04:23 the #2 link on reddit.com/r/haskell is incredible 00:05:23 * kmc fails a "better judgement" roll 00:06:40 i like "do" it lets me think that "i get into monad naow" 00:07:55 no kmc don't do it 00:07:56 this is no fucking idea? 00:08:19 is this spam 00:10:08 is what spam 00:10:13 the fork io thing 00:10:17 me talking about it in this channel? 00:10:31 who can tell what's spam 00:10:40 truly we live in a post-animal world 00:10:55 is people using @faq six times in a row in #haskell spam 00:11:26 prrrrrobably? 00:12:22 does that go to my faq now 00:12:39 no 00:12:40 it should 00:12:50 sigh 00:12:50 int-e: Can you make @faq link to the FAQ on the wiki? 00:12:52 @where faq 00:12:52 http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/FAQ 00:12:56 i thought that changed in the past 00:12:58 int-e: U+261D 00:13:03 maybe it changed back :'( 00:13:10 whatever Not My Problem™ 00:13:44 my /ignore list is now 37 entries long 00:13:51 perhaps i can make #haskell good that way 00:16:27 i like "do" it lets me think that "i get into monad naow" 00:16:45 > do '!' 00:16:47 '!' 00:17:00 that's a quote from the author in that reddit thread 00:17:03 :3 00:17:35 > Just $ do x :: Int 00:17:36 Couldn't match expected type `GHC.Types.Int' 00:17:36 with actual type `Debug.SimpleReflect.Expr.Expr' 00:17:36 Er. 00:17:42 > Just $ do 5 :: Float 00:17:42 Just 5.0 00:17:48 kmc: OKAY 00:18:35 :t \x -> \y -> x + y :: Int :: Int -> Int :: Int -> Int -> Int 00:18:35 Int -> Int -> Int 00:18:50 * oerjan blinks 00:19:12 ow 00:19:14 is that ... correct 00:19:19 why not 00:19:37 it's parsing as (\y -> x + (y :: Int)) :: Int -> Int etc right 00:19:58 Bike: um pretty sure the x + y go together. 00:20:04 The x + y go together. 00:20:08 whatevs 00:20:19 (\y -> (x + y) :: Int) :: Int -> Int and so on. 00:21:09 i suppose it's correct. 00:21:25 the second :: forces the inner lambda to end. 00:23:35 > do do do 5 :: Int :: Int :: Int 00:23:36 5 00:23:42 thought so. 00:24:02 i guess that's more plainly by the } insertion rule 00:25:02 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:25:26 > let in let in let in 5 :: Int :: Int :: Int 00:25:28 5 01:05:56 -!- doesthiswork has joined. 01:08:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:18:12 Tekmo is usually awesome, but is http://www.haskellforall.com/2013/02/you-could-have-invented-comonads.html ok, or is it just going to be bad? 01:18:29 (It's the 'comonads are objects' article) 01:20:05 istr people didn't generally agree with the assessment. 01:20:29 i disagree with most of his assessments 01:20:36 -!- muskrat has quit (Quit: Leaving). 01:20:47 shachaf: what, why do you hate categories 01:21:23 can't stand associative operations 01:21:32 esp. if they have identities 01:22:18 shachaf: hm, i think you may have dissociative identity syndrome. 01:23:06 oh sorry, *disorder 01:23:39 disørjan 01:25:46 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:29:08 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 01:29:49 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 01:30:53 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:03:31 http://cokmett.github.io/cokmett/ 02:05:18 wow 02:05:28 also i'm in that photo 02:05:57 i'm the guy in the back with the "Bevar Christiania" shirt 02:06:08 and no head or right arm or legs 02:09:19 i can confirm that kmc has no head 02:09:25 along with me and douglas harding 02:10:09 what happened you your heads and right arms and legs 02:10:38 i have right arms and legs 02:10:43 loaned them out for some quick cash 02:11:10 arms and legs are worth a lot 02:11:25 is a cis pair worth more than a trans pair 02:11:33 c.c 02:12:08 whew i was wondering if that type declaration was ever going to end 02:12:09 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 02:12:39 (3rd or 4th attempt) 02:12:54 i was hoping it wouldn't 02:13:33 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 02:19:30 * kmc -> afk 02:21:02 surely you mean kmc :: Semidetachedoid a f k 03:10:34 doesthiswork: context plz 03:11:06 * oerjan checks logs 03:11:16 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:12:01 6:05 03:12:33 @time doesthiswork 03:12:41 now what 03:12:50 @time oerjan 03:12:53 oerjan: kmc's messages at :05. 03:12:53 Local time for oerjan is Fri Dec 13 04:12:51 2013 03:13:13 Bike: i'm really just making a timezone statement here. 03:13:14 woops sorry i forgot about time zones 03:14:01 also i found ph's message after missing it the first time i searched 03:14:58 and if it helps I was making a reference to full metal alchemist 03:15:44 OKAY 03:15:48 (tdnh) 03:16:55 Tall Dark and Not Handsome? 03:18:57 team devil not him, about a dispute in the power puff girls fan dom 03:21:05 `? tdnh 03:21:06 Traceback (most recent call last): \ File "/usr/bin/umlbox", line 296, in \ conff.close() \ IOError: [Errno 28] No space left on device 03:21:17 that should clear it up. 03:21:44 makes perfect sense now 03:22:40 awkward 03:22:49 `true 03:24:44 No output. 03:24:54 I need a bigger VPS @_@ 03:24:59 `run true; echo $? 03:25:01 0 03:26:36 `run filenotfound; echo $? 03:26:38 bash: filenotfound: command not found \ 127 03:27:39 `run cat filenotfound; echo $? 03:27:40 cat: filenotfound: No such file or directory \ 1 03:27:54 `run cat --filenotfound; echo $? 03:27:55 cat: unrecognized option '--filenotfound' \ Try `cat --help' for more information. \ 1 03:28:04 weak 03:28:26 i thought you weren't supposed to return 1 on syntax errors 03:37:13 There's not much in terms of exit code convention other than "0 is okay, anything else means something went wrong." 03:39:28 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qw7y4_JDkRM roguelike 03:39:49 yeah are exit codes even used for anything but && and so on. 03:41:13 Gregor: what exactly happens if we ask hackego to write a really big file? and then we keep doing that? it seems reasonable to think that we could write quite a lot of useless data in under hackego's timeout 03:41:14 some commands document multiple non-zero exit codes and some scripts may use them but i'm not thinking of an example right now 03:43:46 quintopia: It has filesize limits as well as time limits. 03:44:29 -!- LinearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 03:44:48 Gregor: is there any limit on the rate of file creation 03:45:02 Not really, I suppose. 03:45:20 not that i'm actually going to try and ddos hackego 03:45:22 just curious 04:03:04 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif). 04:05:44 -!- CADD has joined. 04:19:24 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:22:51 -!- conehead has joined. 04:24:54 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 04:26:58 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:28:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:29:00 -!- ^v has joined. 04:29:31 -!- ^v has quit (Client Quit). 04:59:12 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:10 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:19:03 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 05:19:46 -!- Bike has joined. 06:38:16 Maybe reading a paper about a hypothetical syntax for comonads may help 06:38:46 hypothetical, it may 06:38:51 *+ly 06:39:18 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:41:25 Oh, I get it (well, the notation... I think) 06:47:17 `? monad 06:47:20 Monads are just monoids in the category of endofunctors. 07:00:01 -!- earthereal has joined. 07:03:25 http://www.geekwork.com/opportunity/2270-job-vintage-system-software-developer-and-administrator 07:06:13 `run echo 'Monads are just free monad monad monad algebras.' > wisdom/monads 07:06:17 No output. 07:07:17 `rm wisdom/monads 07:07:21 No output. 07:07:33 oerjan: ? 07:07:37 please learn how ? works thx 07:07:45 `? monoid 07:07:47 Monoids are just categories with a single object. 07:07:48 `? monoids 07:07:49 Monoids are the easy version of categories. 07:07:54 oh hm 07:07:55 imo precedent 07:07:58 `revert 07:08:02 Done. 07:08:10 * oerjan had forgot what he learned 07:08:51 i'm not sure i approve of having separate plural entries in general. 07:08:56 Oh, I could even have used `learn there. 07:09:01 no. 07:09:07 `cat bin/learn 07:09:08 #!/bin/bash \ topic=$(echo "$1" | lowercase | sed 's/^$a\|the$ //;s/s\? .*//') \ info=$(echo "$1" | sed 's/[^ ]* //') \ echo "$1" >"wisdom/$topic" \ echo "I knew that." 07:09:08 Oh, `learn drops the plural too? 07:09:13 h8r 07:09:13 yep 07:09:28 new feature, it now also drops articles 07:09:32 Can we have multiple possible values for a key? 07:09:40 Then `quote can be a special case of `?. 07:10:10 ಠ_ಠ 07:10:10 ¯|¯⌠ 07:10:10 /^\| 07:10:44 ttha_ttha 07:10:59 hi myndzi ꙮ_ꙮ 07:11:10 shachaf: btw i think the only reason wisdom/monoids exists is that both entries were added before learn/?'s plural handling. 07:11:38 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: Reconnecting). 07:11:52 -!- Bike has joined. 07:11:57 oerjan: Hmm, I think I added it to test how the plural handling works or something. 07:12:00 I don't remember. 07:12:21 Anyway, picking a random wisdom line sounds good to me. 07:12:27 it is possible i'm thinking about another entry. 07:13:24 `run echo 'Monoidal categories are just 2-categories with a single object.' > wisdom/'monoidal category' 07:13:28 No output. 07:14:03 is that true. 07:14:12 isn't it 07:14:38 i suppose i may be thinking of monoidally closed categories. 07:15:39 that's a monoidal category where tensor product has a right adjoint, right 07:16:04 "##Just like for any category E, the full subcategory spanned by any given object is a monoid, it is the case that for any 2-category E, and any object C∈Ob(E), the full 2-subcategory of E spanned by {C} is a monoidal category." 07:16:16 i suppose that hints at your claim. 07:17:07 https://unapologetic.wordpress.com/2007/08/16/2-categories/ 07:18:54 oh, that post talks about the category where the arrows are adjunctions 07:18:59 apparently it's a 2-category 07:19:24 i moved all kinda shit around on my computer, and now the shell and the launcher pane both can't find firefox automatically. and i was pretty sure the links were aimed correctly 07:19:35 i mean, an interesting one 07:19:39 ok 07:19:52 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 07:20:05 makes sense, i guess, pairs of natural transformations 07:20:12 does this extend to chu spaces somehow 07:20:24 if link to firefox, will the system chase all those softlinks to launch it? 07:20:28 what 07:20:31 lag 07:20:35 * quintopia retypes all that 07:21:43 if that one environment variable says to look for things to launch in /usr/bin and /usr/bin is actually a soft link to /usrbin and /usrbin contains a soft-link to firefox elsewhere, will the system properly chase all those links to launch it 07:23:55 -!- prooftechnique has quit. 07:25:37 -!- FreeFull has quit. 07:30:48 -!- Bike has quit (Quit: restarting). 07:31:07 -!- Bike has joined. 07:40:22 I think it was better before the retyping. 07:41:49 quintopia: it should yeah 07:41:54 why the hell do you have a /usrbin? 07:42:02 there is some maximum symlink depth 07:42:22 but also I think that would apply to a single filename lookup, and not to e.g. chasing links to find a directory, and then to find files in that directory 07:43:00 There can be more than one maximum symlink depth, it's not terribly well standardized, but I concur with kmc that it doesn't aggregate across different path name components. 07:43:07 -!- earthereal has quit (Quit: Leaving). 07:43:39 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 07:43:42 myname: /usr is on a very small partition. i needed to install something new, so i just moved /usr/bin up to / to make space 07:43:44 hooray concurrency 07:43:53 Hey, can someone help me understand Lazy K? 07:43:53 :S 07:44:24 yeah i have no idea what's causing this problem then. 07:50:11 Processing Data: c02c0202.mfc; Label c02c0202.lab ERROR [+6510] LOpen: Unable to open label file /[REDACTED]/c02c0202.lc02c0202.mfc why are you looking for a file with a retarded name like that? 07:50:24 Oh, maybe it's yet another buffer overflow problem. 07:51:08 yabop 07:51:10 unable to open file \x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90\x90 07:51:43 Oh yes, the (non-redacted) path is 268 characters, and "c02c0202.mfc" is 12, and 268-12 is 256, and 256 characters should be enough for everyone. 07:52:00 unable to clopen file 07:52:21 open(filename, O_CLOSE) 07:53:07 clearly creat is just clopen(filename, O_CREAT) 07:53:27 O_CANADA 07:53:42 O_NOW_I_SEE 07:53:51 O_M_G 08:01:14 -!- ThatOtherPerson_ has joined. 08:03:24 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 08:08:38 -!- ThatOtherPerson has joined. 08:10:58 -!- ThatOtherPerson_ has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 08:16:55 is there a language where every command just toggles some binary state 08:19:17 "Haskell, the warm fuzzy nuclear waste." 08:20:47 @let (☢) = (>>=) 08:20:47 Parse failed: Illegal character ''\152'' 08:20:59 unicode 'fuck you' sign 08:21:27 wait they have that now, "Reversed Hand with Middle Finger Extended" 08:21:41 gah unicode 08:21:50 where do they come up with all that shit 08:21:53 japan 08:22:10 420 smoke japan every day 08:22:14 is the middle finger thing like UCS3 or something 08:22:50 hm? 08:23:25 !SENT_START BELIEVE ME WE HAVE BE KIND OF AMERICA THIS IS TO COST SAYS !SENT_END 08:23:37 it's in Unicode 7.0 and I don't think there's a corresponding ISO/IEC 10646 version yet 08:23:54 it's in the Supplementary Multilingual Plane 08:23:59 ah 08:24:11 U+1F595 08:24:12 apparently middle fingers are pretty universal 08:24:13 -!- farrioth has joined. 08:25:55 U+1F596 RAISED HAND WITH PART BETWEEN MIDDLE AND RING FINGERS 08:26:11 ...spock? 08:26:21 "ring finger"??? that's not culturally neutral 08:26:40 spock is not culturally neutral 08:26:47 http://www.babelstone.co.uk/Blog/Images/1F594_5_6.png that hand looks really awkward. 08:26:49 VERY AMERICA SO JEW 08:27:23 But it's good to finally get the REVERSED VICTORY HAND to complement the VICTORY HAND of the BMP. 08:27:40 (Now, is that REVERSED (VICTORY HAND) or (REVERSED VICTORY) HAND?) 08:27:56 now all we need is RAISED HAND WITH EXTENDED INDEX AND MIDDLE FINGERS TOGETHER AND EXTENDED LITTLE FINGER 08:28:07 Reversed victory, a well-known euphemism for a defeat. 08:28:20 I didn't fail, I just reverse-succeeded. 08:28:47 kmc: it's a total shocker to me they haven't already 08:29:44 * quintopia wonders if finland gets kmc's joke 08:29:56 hi finland 08:30:12 there are a lot of finland here. are you talking to all of them? 08:30:20 This part of Finland didn't. It must not be culturally neutral. 08:33:20 -!- ThatOtherPerson has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:33:53 Oh, it's that thing, I had in fact heard of it. 08:34:14 http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A8%D0%BE%D0%BA%D0%B5%D1%80_(%D0%B6%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82) w/ rhyme translations 08:34:15 Good morning. 08:34:24 good mroman to you too 08:35:09 I hope nobody reads my name as Mr. Oman 08:35:47 Although I'd have nothing against owning some rich-of-oil sultan-state 08:35:48 nope 08:35:51 mroman: I read it as morman for a second. 08:35:57 it's definitely Mr. O. Man 08:36:02 `relcome farrioth 08:36:06 farrioth: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 08:36:08 Mr. O-Man 08:36:17 Eww, colors. 08:36:25 taste the rainbow 08:36:34 mroman: how should I read it? 08:36:43 * farrioth prints. 08:36:47 * farrioth eats. 08:36:56 m. roman 08:37:01 As I said, eww, colors. 08:37:13 The m is just there because "roman" is already taken 08:37:15 `WeLcOmE farrioth 08:37:18 FaRrIoTh: WeLcOmE To tHe iNtErNaTiOnAl hUb fOr eSoTeRiC PrOgRaMmInG LaNgUaGe dEsIgN AnD DePlOyMeNt! FoR MoRe iNfOrMaTiOn, ChEcK OuT OuR WiKi: . (fOr tHe oThEr kInD Of eSoTeRiCa, TrY #eSoTeRiC On iRc.dAl.nEt.) 08:37:29 and the m is the first letter of my laste name 08:37:32 Is there a leet version? 08:37:43 `W31c0m3 farrioth 08:37:45 /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: W31c0m3: not found 08:37:46 I hope not. 08:37:59 -!- CADD has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 08:38:06 Incedentally I've read the wiki for a while. 08:38:09 mroman: you could be Mr Oman 08:39:03 have you posted there 08:40:05 quintopia: From memory I made some minor edits to the Befunge page a while ago. 08:40:49 It's the only language I'm reasonably good at. 08:40:55 are you more of an implementation, use, or design sort of person 08:40:56 Well, that and Python. 08:41:36 quintopia: Use, although I wrote a Befunge-93 interpreter the other day. And I'v had a few vague design ideas. 08:55:40 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 08:56:44 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:57:47 You could write an interpreter for spacefish 1D 08:58:49 mroman: It's in need of one? 08:58:55 Yeah 08:59:34 It's based on the idea of antennas sending data at some specific level/amplitude 08:59:48 and an outside observer measures the level/amplitude/intensity of the signal 09:00:09 however, if other antennas near other antennas also emit signals they overlap and cause distortien 09:00:40 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Spacefish 09:00:58 That and you can't place antennas outside the range of other antenas 09:01:23 that's the idea. And I figured that could be applied to Brainfuck 09:01:41 mroman: I was about to say, it looks like Brainfuck2D with distortion. 09:02:01 It esentially is Brainfuck with distortion, yes 09:03:43 but it would be boring if you could just use every 256th cell so you'll always be out of distortion range of any other cell 09:03:49 therefore you only start with one cell 09:03:59 and the range of distortion expands the space 09:04:19 which means that a cell outside the range of distortion of any other cell is actually a non-existing cell 09:04:32 (i.e. that space does not exist outside distortion ranges) 09:04:45 I get it. 09:05:29 The code there is for the 1D version, right? 09:06:11 Yeah 09:06:34 The code there uses a fixed array and just skips over undistorted cells when doing > or < 09:06:40 there might be better approaches to handle this 09:06:58 What is the data structure of space[ptr]? It's a list of length 2... 09:06:59 the distortion is log2 09:07:09 * farrioth is better at writing code than reading it. 09:07:20 farrioth: space[ptr][0] is the level the antenna is sending at 09:07:28 and space[ptr][1] is the distortion 09:07:30 but yeah. 09:07:35 It's probably better to start with clean code :) 09:07:46 I'm not really a Python guy 09:09:39 Fair enough. 09:09:50 Python does allow for comments though, you know... 09:11:07 So the data is basically a tape which is writable only adjacent to filled cells? 09:16:58 i like python 09:17:02 Cells store integers, right? 09:17:25 it's only writable in *distorted* cells 09:17:29 which may not be adjacent 09:17:53 mroman: why "spacefish" 09:18:11 Cool. If a cell was distorted, but then ceases to be distorted does it remain writable? 09:29:05 Can you move the pointer to a cell that isn't writable? 09:30:12 !SENT_START NO ONE'S U. S. FOR THE F. S. R. I. C. NEEDS MORE MONEY !SENT_END 09:30:55 fungot: Why can't you ever sound as intelligible as these outputs? 09:30:55 fizzie: no, it's fun!!! fnord is not). 09:33:11 farrioth: Then the cell dies 09:33:26 if a cell moves out of the distortion range of another cell it ceases to exist 09:34:46 the fact is, that two non-adjacent cells can become adjacent if the space between those cells ceases to exist 09:35:07 like uhm 09:35:16 [1,2,1] 09:35:39 mroman: Oh hell. 09:35:55 hm wait 09:36:16 I assume that can happen :) 09:36:41 on wait no 09:37:10 farrioth: I think we recently discussed in this channel 09:37:20 that every cell must have a "path" to the initial cell 09:38:27 that means: If you have [1,0,*1*,1] (where ** denotes the initial cell) 09:38:37 you actually have to delete the first element 09:38:37 That means that, in practice, the indeces of your data change. 09:39:05 ah. replace the initial cell with 2 09:39:13 [1,0,*2*,1] <- so 09:39:15 And also that you can never read a 0, which makes ( useless. 09:39:40 If I'm not mistaken, which I might be. 09:39:55 But I know I am hungry, so will be back soon. 09:39:56 If you intially had [1,0,8,1] but decrement it to [1,0,2,1] 09:40:15 the space shrinks to [0,2,1] 09:41:00 i've just sneezed for the seventh time in a row help 09:41:15 this room has no tissues for my issues 09:41:18 You can think of it as every antenna must be able to send data to the initial antenna (other antennas might repeat that data) 09:41:37 nvm found some 09:41:45 farrioth: It's probably wise to have index 0 be the initial cell 09:41:51 and index -1 to be the cell left to it 09:41:56 and index 1 to be the cell right to it 09:42:38 farrioth: And you can read a zero 09:43:04 If you have the value 255 in a cell which is distorted by 1 09:43:12 the measurable value changes to 0 09:43:19 (wrap around like brainfuck) 09:43:25 mroman: Ah, yes, that makes sense. 09:44:03 Theres the cell's own value (the intensity the antenna is sending at) and a measurable value 09:44:46 mroman: So the cell disappears if the 'sending' value is zero, but not if the 'recieving' value is zero. 09:44:54 mroman: ? 09:45:24 mroman: you know what would be fun? a language where you can put antennas anywhere, but they are the only way to modify cells. Plus, they don't just attenuate normally, they create standing alternating waves that constructively and destructively interfere. 09:45:48 farrioth: Well... 09:45:57 a cell disappears if it is not affected by distortion 09:46:10 so cell with sending value 0 do exist 09:46:28 Initially you start with [0] 09:46:34 ^- your initial cell 09:46:39 if you increment it to two 2 09:46:47 you have a distortion range of 1 around that cell 09:46:52 therefore space expands to [0,2,0] 09:47:21 if you decrement the initial cell to 1 the distortion range drops to zero 09:47:30 and therefore space shrinks to [1] 09:48:28 mroman: If the sending value can never be 0, that would mean that it is impossible to read a 0. 09:48:50 farrioth: you know how when you hold an antenna close to another antenna there's a lot of feedback and things change rather unexpectedly and nonlinearly? 09:49:06 farrioth: be warned that situations like that are common in spacefish 09:49:33 * farrioth is warned. 09:49:41 farrioth: the sending value can be zero. just probably don't want to try to read a zero from the initial cell 09:50:07 farrioth: Like I said: The sending value can be zero 09:50:42 A sending value expands the space by log2 of its sending value 09:52:21 mroman: < mroman> so cell with sending value 0 do exist 09:52:36 so a cell with value zero makes contracts all of space to a point (by expanding space by negative infinity) 09:53:16 or does that just expand space infinitely in the opposite direction? 09:53:36 You want to expand space by 1/inf I think. 09:53:46 And so the point does still exist? 09:53:59 farrioth: but log_2(0)=-infty 09:56:10 But you were using the log values to calculate the effect on other cells, not to move/delete them, right? 09:56:37 A cell with sending value 0 does not expand space 09:56:42 it does not distort anything 09:56:44 but it can exist 09:57:04 Okay. 09:57:09 farrioth: You have to delete all cells (except the initial cell) that are not distorted 09:57:16 -!- mrclarinet has joined. 09:57:20 http://codepad.org/foE6Odji 09:57:24 ^- see here 09:58:59 mroman: That makes much more sense, thanks. 10:00:19 You can start at the initial cell 10:00:26 and search to the left for the first undistorted cell 10:00:46 and then remove the undistorted cell and every cell to the left of that cell (because it has no connection to the initial cell anymore) 10:00:51 then the same thing to the right 10:01:54 Ah okay, so the undistorted cells don't just cease to exist and collapse, but the 'tape gets cut off' at an undistorted cell. 10:02:25 Which means I can implement it as left and right lists, which is handy. 10:02:34 Like INTERFUNGE. 10:03:06 http://codepad.org/VUryyN4C <- like in this scenario 10:03:16 the two eights would keep each other alive 10:03:25 but they have no connection to the initial cell (4) 10:03:35 so the two eights must die 10:03:42 farrioth: Yes @Left and right lists 10:04:12