←2013-12-15 2013-12-16 2013-12-17→ ↑2013 ↑all
00:00:20 <quintopia> well i give up
00:00:24 <FreeFull> The door was actualyl rusted shut
00:00:28 <FreeFull> actually too
00:00:57 <zzo38> FreeFull: No. (Well, maybe it is; I haven't tried. But that isn't the reason.)
00:01:45 <quintopia> FreeFull: he said kjugobe doesn't WANT it opened, not that it can't be opened.
00:01:45 <zzo38> The reason I don't want it open is that if whoever has the key is asked to open the door, due to whatever is happening, it may easily interfere with the schedules of this ship (a merchant ship) arriving and departing at certain areas.
00:02:19 <quintopia> zzo38: who would have guessed that. no one.
00:02:37 <zzo38> quintopia: Maybe if you read it, someone might have guessed?
00:03:15 <quintopia> i'm pretty sure no one else would have guessed on the basis of me reading
00:03:15 <zzo38> So the reason has nothing to do with the door itself (other than the fact that it is locked and I don't have the key).
00:03:57 <zzo38> But I have a way to get in anyways, despite teleportation not being allowed into and out of the cell.
00:04:08 <zzo38> And I have this rope and sanding block I can use in there too.
00:06:08 <zzo38> The prisoner's name is Shadowsteel, I think. I have almost completely broken his concentration, I think.
00:07:44 <zzo38> Anyways if you can read the entire story and still don't understand, then maybe you aren't good enough at this game?
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00:27:15 <quintopia> ohhhh cold burn from the zzoster
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00:35:14 <zzo38> quintopia: What does that mean?
00:37:58 <quintopia> zzo38: never mind
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00:51:55 <oerjan> `cat bin/seen
00:51:57 <HackEgo> ​#! /usr/bin/env perl \ ($n,$e)=split /\s+/, join(" ",@ARGV); $n=~s/ *$//; $c="ls -r /var/irclogs/_esoteric/????-??-??.txt"; $c.=" | head -n 30" unless $e eq "ever"; @f=split /\s+/, `$c`; for $f (@f) { open F,"<$f"; @l=grep(/^..:..:..: <$n>/i,<F>); close F; if (@l) { $b=$f; $b=~s#.*/(.*?).txt#$1#; print "$b $l[-1]"; exit 1; } } print $e eq "ever
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01:01:22 <shachaf> should co(cartesian closed) be called cocartesian coclosed or coclosed cocartesian
01:01:30 <shachaf> "the important questions"
01:01:53 <Bike> the dual of a cartesian closed space
01:02:18 <shachaf> help what's a cartesian closed space
01:02:29 <Bike> category whatever
01:02:30 <Bike> nerd
01:03:19 <Phantom_Hoover> open cocartesian
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02:07:07 <int-e> b_jonas: https://github.com/int-e/zeckendorf now deals with trailing zeros and has truncating subtraction for zeckendorf numbers (e.g. [] - [1] = [])
02:08:07 <quintopia> yay zeckendorf
02:14:35 <Phantom_Hoover> good dorf
02:14:40 <Phantom_Hoover> up there with haus and ganon
02:15:41 <kmc> can we talk about dorps instead
02:15:46 <kmc> like nieuw dorp
02:22:07 <Phantom_Hoover> that's the only dorp, except for a south african musical group based in london
02:22:39 <kmc> guess there's no oud dorp
02:22:59 <kmc> several nieuw dorps but which one is the nieuwest
02:24:55 <oerjan> the one that isn't built yet
02:25:46 <LinearInterpol> http://np.reddit.com/r/Physics/comments/1svri5/ive_solved_the_theory_of_everything_try_and_prove/ce1pd2n
02:25:58 <LinearInterpol> the actual fuck is this.
02:26:01 <quintopia> int-e: does NegaZeckendorf just use -1,-2,-3 etc.
02:26:26 <Phantom_Hoover> LinearInterpol, you're oko right
02:26:30 <quintopia> from the title it looks like a stellar example of fractured ceramics
02:26:35 <LinearInterpol> Phantom_Hoover: nope.
02:26:42 <Bike> it appears to be garbage, LinearInterpol
02:26:48 <LinearInterpol> "Gravity (which doesn't actually exist) is n=0"
02:26:53 <LinearInterpol> u fokin wot
02:26:54 <int-e> quintopia: 1 -1 2 -3 5 -8 13 etc; the signs alternate. (or, more easily, you use the fibonacci numbers with negative indices, F_{-1},F_{-2},...)
02:26:59 <Phantom_Hoover> LinearInterpol, that's precisely the response i'd expect from oko, see
02:27:12 <LinearInterpol> check my host, I don't know who oko is. :P
02:27:49 <Phantom_Hoover> HMMMM
02:28:02 <Phantom_Hoover> i'd put nothing past him/you
02:28:11 <quintopia> int-e: that would have been my second guess
02:28:14 <Phantom_Hoover> i trustirth him a long time ago
02:28:36 <LinearInterpol> I don't know who the hell "oko" is.
02:28:40 -!- kmc has set topic: [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat | But I see you on the other side? | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/.
02:29:02 <oerjan> oklofok: LinearInterpol doesn't know who you are!
02:29:12 <LinearInterpol> lol.
02:29:33 <shachaf> > [Just (), Nothing] >>= repeat
02:29:34 <lambdabot> [Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Just (),Jus...
02:29:49 <oklofok> "<ais523> I don't think I've ever eaten one" you've never eaten an avocado? you should they're awesome
02:29:51 <Bike> 17 is beyond our reach
02:30:27 <oerjan> <LinearInterpol> the actual fuck is this. <-- standard 5.5 f crank, tin covered
02:30:28 <quintopia> what oklofok said
02:30:46 <quintopia> oerjan: f is for?
02:30:54 <Phantom_Hoover> oklofok, why are you pretending to be LinearInterpol pretending to not be you
02:31:23 <LinearInterpol> because I'm actually oklofok.
02:31:25 <LinearInterpol> obv
02:31:33 <quintopia> THEN WHO WAS PHONE
02:31:50 <oerjan> quintopia: feet, duh
02:31:52 <LinearInterpol> quintopia: yes.
02:32:04 <oerjan> (cranks always use imperial, being mainly us engineers)
02:32:10 <Phantom_Hoover> oklofok was also phone
02:32:59 <LinearInterpol> screw imperial units.
02:33:12 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: why are you now pretending to be not oklofok who is pretending to be oklofok
02:33:14 <oklofok> okokokokokokokokokokoko
02:33:34 <LinearInterpol> but I'm not oklofok
02:33:40 <LinearInterpol> (we can do this all day)
02:33:52 * oklofok is leaving to france in a few hours
02:33:54 <oerjan> no you cannot, i'll ban you on the fifth iteration or so
02:34:08 <LinearInterpol> b-b-but
02:34:33 <oklofok> you guys being so silly
02:34:43 <quintopia> LinearInterpol: i will hex you to read all further instances of the word "cannot" as "carrot"
02:34:44 <oerjan> oklofok: bon voyage, Mr. Oskari
02:34:47 <quintopia> you will SUFFER
02:35:00 <LinearInterpol> you monster.
02:35:23 <Phantom_Hoover> oklofok, why would you go to france
02:35:26 <Phantom_Hoover> it's full of french
02:35:42 <oklofok> yeah
02:35:55 <oklofok> it's horrrrrrrible
02:36:37 <oerjan> if only boily were here to warn him
02:36:50 <quintopia> boily would warn him in french
02:36:56 <quintopia> does oklofok speak the francais
02:36:59 <oklofok> no
02:37:08 <oerjan> quintopia: precisely what's needed to scare some sense into him!
02:37:20 <quintopia> oerjan: it does sound right dreadful
02:37:33 <oklofok> i speak spanish well enough to buy beer, pizza and pants though
02:37:33 <quintopia> oklofok: what's in france for you
02:37:51 <oklofok> i'm going to talk about some stuff we did in chile last week
02:38:00 <LinearInterpol> donde est mi pantalones.
02:38:01 <quintopia> oh
02:38:07 <quintopia> who's paying you
02:38:37 <oklofok> we did some percolation theory stuff and just after i send the abstract to france, we found out that the guy whose book we had been using published an article about the exact same thing
02:38:49 <quintopia> por qué la cervez in mi pantalones
02:38:50 <kmc> donde están mis pantalones
02:38:51 <kmc> isn't it?
02:39:00 <oklofok> (i don't know if he has all our results, but probably he has most of them)
02:39:11 <oklofok> i'm being paid by the university people
02:39:17 <quintopia> well i guess its an idea whose time has come
02:39:19 <oklofok> this thing http://perso.ens-lyon.fr/nathalie.aubrun/DySyCo.html#program
02:39:36 <zzo38> Do you have a spell to make caster refuse to visit France? (it is one of the spells in ifMUD, I think)
02:40:11 <Phantom_Hoover> no
02:40:15 <oklofok> unfortunately my mana pool is empty
02:40:31 <Phantom_Hoover> what would even be the point of that, if i don't want to go to france i can do that without a spell
02:40:53 <oklofok> quintopia: everyone in the CA community is suddenly doing some sort of probabilistic stuff
02:41:12 <oklofok> so yeah basically
02:41:14 <oerjan> oklofok: a highly unlikely coincidence!
02:41:28 <quintopia> oerjan: probably
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02:42:07 <oklofok> may have to do with the fact that lots of people in the CA community (not me) seem to think that there are not that many new things to do
02:42:17 <Bike> "Characterizing complexity and computability classes with polynomial ordinary differential equations." oh hey, neat.
02:42:28 <oklofok> is that one of the talks
02:42:43 <Bike> it's in the link, yeah.
02:43:03 <oklofok> that does sound cool
02:43:15 <Bike> i've seen a few papers on it, i don't remember if bournez was on them
02:43:49 <Bike> he has four different cvs
02:44:10 <Bike> oh, yeah, he did. write papers i've read probably i mean
02:44:30 <Bike> "Computability and computational complexity of the evolution of nonlinear dynamical systems" "Computation with perturbed dynamical systems" etc etc
02:44:50 <oklofok> omg our reading someone's paper / cotalking in a conference distance is at most 2.
02:45:31 <quintopia> does anyone know off the top of their heads the computational complexity of the problem "does there exist a planar embedding of G with at most k edge crossings?"
02:46:09 <Bike> well i just think they're kind of neat. i looked up an obscure paper of shannon's in a real physical library because of them
02:47:25 <oklofok> quintopia: sounds like a very basic question in parametrized complexity
02:47:33 <oklofok> another hot topic afaiu
02:47:55 <oklofok> (i have no idea what the answer is)
02:48:33 <oklofok> okay maybe the planar makes it very possible that there's no paper on this
02:49:18 <oklofok> also my answer probably requires that the problem of checking whether there's an embedding with at most k crossings is np-hard if k is given as input
02:49:38 <oklofok> which i don't actually know
02:51:52 <oklofok> "<oerjan> oklofok: bon voyage, Mr. Oskari" btw you're right
02:53:36 <oerjan> *MWAHAHAHA*
02:55:38 <oklofok> mr. Öör Andersson Jan
02:56:04 <oerjan> i am one of the few people of my age in the family not to have a middle name, i think.
02:56:20 <shachaf> oopse i looked at reddit.com/r/haskell again
02:56:28 <kmc> :'(
02:56:44 <shachaf> at least this particular monad tutorial is at a negative score so i guess i can't complain about it saying wrong things
02:57:03 <oerjan> shachaf: just read the 24 days posts hth
02:57:26 <shachaf> oerjan: do you still have that hth disabler script thing
02:57:30 <oerjan> sure
02:57:49 <kmc> /r/monadtutorials
02:58:25 <shachaf> i like how this section is called "definiton"
02:58:27 <shachaf> i
02:58:35 <shachaf> "definition"
02:59:42 <int-e> b_jonas: and now there's even a bunch of comments. I think that's it for this year.
03:00:01 <oerjan> definitons, the force carriers of the strong monadic action
03:00:30 <oerjan> `seen b_jonas
03:00:35 <HackEgo> 2013-12-14 23:08:46: <b_jonas> nope, http://caniuse.com/ doesn't mentino these
03:00:49 <oerjan> the mentino is another rarely mentioned particle
03:02:32 <int-e> @tell b_jonas I've extended https://github.com/int-e/zeckendorf to deal with trailing zeros, subtracting a larger from a smaller number (which will result in 0 for Zeckendorf numbers) and a bunch of comments. Enjoy!
03:02:32 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
03:03:36 <shachaf> oerjan: you should disable the hth disabler script
03:03:41 <shachaf> oerjan: i miss the hthful days
03:05:08 <int-e> hateful?
03:05:25 <quintopia> oklofok: it is NP-complete
03:05:41 <shachaf> hth leads to suffering
03:06:09 <quintopia> oklofok: but there are efficient approximation algorithms for graphs of bounded degree
03:06:20 <oklofok> i'm sure there are
03:07:50 <oklofok> is https://cs.uwaterloo.ca/~plragde/papers/hlayer_ESA.ps related
03:09:22 <quintopia> http://dist.ist.tugraz.at/cape5/why.html
03:09:41 <kmc> how does one disable hths
03:11:25 <shachaf> i think elliott wrote a script
03:12:14 <oklofok> okay gtg, love you guys lol tihihi <3
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03:15:07 <shachaf> "The only known results are that the free Heyting algebra on one generator is infinite, and that the free complete Heyting algebra on one generator exists (and has one more element than the free Heyting algebra)."
03:25:17 <oerjan> shachaf: wat
03:25:53 <shachaf> oerjan: ?
03:26:02 <oerjan> known results about what
03:26:19 <shachaf> i already closed the page
03:26:24 <shachaf> @google "has one more element than the free Heyting algebra"
03:26:25 <lambdabot> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_(mathematics)
03:26:25 <lambdabot> Title: Word problem (mathematics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
03:26:35 <shachaf> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_problem_(mathematics)
03:27:07 <oerjan> ah
03:27:37 <shachaf> i guess saying an infinite things has one more element than another infinite things can make sense when the things are more interesting than sets
03:28:50 <shachaf> oerjan: btw you know how if you take a discrete space and then add one more element which isn't in any open set (not even the set of everything) then you get a thing which is like a pointed set
03:29:13 <shachaf> (and you keep the usual definition of continuity and so on of course)
03:29:39 <shachaf> or you can add an element which is in every set, even the "empty" one
03:29:43 <shachaf> same deal
03:29:45 <oerjan> shachaf: i assume it means "has one element that isn't in the free heyting algebra"
03:30:10 <shachaf> sure
03:31:17 <oerjan> shachaf: i am not sure i know, unless you are talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexandroff_extension
03:31:50 <shachaf> hm, i don't think i am
03:31:57 <shachaf> since the thing i'm talking about isn't a topological space
03:32:19 <oerjan> food ->
03:32:34 <shachaf> i just mean, you know how a space is (X,{{},X,...open sets...})
03:32:37 <shachaf> ok fine
03:33:05 <shachaf> that's the same alexandrov as an alexandrov topology i guess
03:34:35 <shachaf> i'll just bug someone else instead
03:34:41 <shachaf> or maybe i shouldn't be bugging people, hmm
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03:47:49 <oerjan> ) 1 i 10 * 1 i 10
03:47:50 <jconn> oerjan: |value error: i
03:47:50 <jconn> oerjan: | 1 i 10*1 i 10
03:48:19 <oerjan> ) 1 i 10
03:48:20 <jconn> oerjan: |value error: i
03:48:20 <jconn> oerjan: | 1 i 10
03:48:41 <shachaf> what's 1 i 10
03:48:45 <oerjan> j would be so much cooler if you could remember the functions
03:48:48 <shachaf> ) i 10
03:48:49 <jconn> shachaf: |value error: i
03:48:49 <jconn> shachaf: | i 10
03:49:00 <oerjan> ) i 1 10
03:49:00 <jconn> oerjan: |value error: i
03:49:00 <jconn> oerjan: | i 1 10
03:49:05 <oerjan> ) u
03:49:06 <jconn> oerjan: |value error: u
03:49:08 <oerjan> oops
03:49:16 <shachaf> is that supposed to be iota
03:49:28 <oerjan> ) 1 iota 10
03:49:28 <jconn> oerjan: |value error: iota
03:49:29 <jconn> oerjan: | 1 iota 10
03:49:34 <oerjan> MAYBE
03:49:39 <shachaf> what was it
03:49:41 <shachaf> ) i. 10
03:49:42 <jconn> shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
03:49:47 <oerjan> whew
03:49:51 <oerjan> ) 1 i. 10
03:49:52 <jconn> oerjan: 1
03:49:53 <shachaf> OBVIOUSLY
03:50:11 <shachaf> ) i. 10 + 1
03:50:11 <jconn> shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
03:50:17 <shachaf> ) 1 + i. 10
03:50:17 <oerjan> ) 1 + i. 10
03:50:17 <jconn> shachaf: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
03:50:18 <jconn> oerjan: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
03:50:38 <int-e> ) i. 3 * i. 3
03:50:38 <jconn> int-e: |ok
03:50:47 <Bike> i don't understand anything.
03:50:54 <int-e> ) i. 3 * 3
03:50:55 <jconn> int-e: 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
03:50:59 <oerjan> ) (i. 10) * (i. 10)
03:51:00 <jconn> oerjan: 0 1 4 9 16 25 36 49 64 81
03:51:17 <int-e> oh. zip
03:51:27 <shachaf> are you looking for a multiplication table
03:51:36 <oerjan> no
03:51:49 <oerjan> just playing
03:51:49 <int-e> > zipWith (*) [0..9] [0..9]
03:51:50 <lambdabot> [0,1,4,9,16,25,36,49,64,81]
03:51:51 <shachaf> ok
03:52:14 <oerjan> > liftM2 (*) [0..9] [0..9]
03:52:15 <lambdabot> [0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,2,4,6,8,10,12,14,16,18,0,3,6,9,12...
03:52:20 <shachaf> ) i. 10 5
03:52:21 <jconn> shachaf: 0 1 2 3 4
03:52:21 <jconn> shachaf: 5 6 7 8 9
03:52:21 <jconn> shachaf: 10 11 12 13 14
03:52:21 <jconn> shachaf: 15 16 17 18 19
03:52:21 <jconn> shachaf: 20 21 22 23 24
03:52:22 <jconn> shachaf: ...
03:52:24 <shachaf> hi
03:52:31 <shachaf> ) i. 3 4
03:52:31 <jconn> shachaf: 0 1 2 3
03:52:32 <jconn> shachaf: 4 5 6 7
03:52:32 <jconn> shachaf: 8 9 10 11
03:52:43 <shachaf> ) i. 2 3 4
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf: 0 1 2 3
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf: 4 5 6 7
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf: 8 9 10 11
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf:
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf: 12 13 14 15
03:52:44 <jconn> shachaf: ...
03:52:50 <shachaf> ok that's too spammy
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03:55:07 <shachaf> ) (1 + i. 4) */ (1 + i. 4)
03:55:08 <jconn> shachaf: 1 2 3 4
03:55:08 <jconn> shachaf: 2 4 6 8
03:55:08 <jconn> shachaf: 3 6 9 12
03:55:08 <jconn> shachaf: 4 8 12 16
04:50:43 <oerjan> Quotation found in the comments of http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=1622: Sidney Morgenbesser (to B.F. Skinner): “So, you’re telling me it’s wrong to anthropomorphise humans?“
04:52:00 <Bike> that is a basic way to explain behaviorism
04:52:34 <oerjan> that explains why googling it led me to http://lesswrong.com/lw/6i5/behaviorism_beware_anthropomorphizing_humans/
04:53:31 <Bike> oh boy, lesswrong. but yeah the idea is basically to say that introspection isn't admissible, so you're left with what you can actually observe and record people doing.
04:54:14 <Bike> and that avoids thinking and poetry and other human things.
04:55:22 <oerjan> the other blog post started with aaronson getting interviewed by yudkowsk[iy]'s institute, btw.
04:55:44 <Bike> yeah, sigh
04:56:05 <oerjan> i mean, the first one.
04:56:31 <oerjan> you can sigh when you get to lubos motl's response. which i skipped. hth
04:56:43 <Bike> also i'm trying to think of morgenbesser, i swear i've heard that name or something like it
04:57:29 <Bike> oskar morgenstern. i am officially bad at names.
04:58:15 <Bike> motl's that recurrent guy right
04:58:26 <Bike> who says things like, well, that
05:00:44 <oerjan> he's pretty recurrently offensive
05:00:51 <Bike> right
05:01:35 <oerjan> also by skipping i meant not actually reading much of his blog post.
05:01:45 <oerjan> because, wat
05:01:48 <quintopia> jconn: nice multiplication table
05:01:49 <jconn> quintopia: nice multiplication table
05:02:04 <Bike> oerjan: you actually clicked the link?
05:02:12 <oerjan> well yes.
05:02:24 <Bike> but why
05:02:39 <oerjan> not enough previous negative reinforcement.
05:02:42 <quintopia> oerjan: that was a good interview
05:02:49 * oerjan is reading the behaviorist thing now
05:03:01 <Bike> behaviorist thing?
05:03:10 <oerjan> Bike: on less wrong.
05:03:24 <Bike> oh
05:03:31 <oerjan> it's not so long.
05:03:46 <oerjan> also it's not by yudkowsky himself.
05:06:56 <oerjan> "[Evolution] is is especially too slow and large-grained to produce human-level behavior: citing my sources in MLA format is an important skill, and I don't want to have to wait until ten generations of my ancestors have perished for citing their sources incorrectly before I can do it right."
05:07:24 <oerjan> hmph, the "is is" was in the original
05:08:23 <Bike> do they mention the endocrine system
05:09:07 <oerjan> not that i can see
05:09:26 <Bike> since it's the behavioral modulator that's faster than genetics but slower than synapses
05:10:01 <oerjan> ah
05:10:02 <quintopia> the article is about skinner's program of explaining thoughts in addition to behavior, and the idea that mental behavior is created by a process akin to evolution.
05:10:18 <quintopia> it doesn't go into detail about mechanisms
05:10:24 <oerjan> `? quintopia
05:10:26 <HackEgo> quintopia? ¯\(°​_o)/¯
05:10:38 <oerjan> `learn quintopia is our resident tl;dr generator.
05:10:43 <HackEgo> I knew that.
05:10:54 <zzo38> Even though it is slow and large-grained, but there is a lot of time available so it doesn't matter if it is slow. If you want to cite your sources in MLA format, then read the book to explain how it is working, or ask someone how.
05:10:57 <quintopia> you're welcome
05:11:07 <quintopia> i should practice gisting anyway
05:11:25 <Bike> zzo38: the point of the quotation is to explain why something as fast and flexible as the nervous system is adaptive.
05:11:44 <Bike> well, not just the nervous system, the whole of behavioral modulation.
05:12:13 <zzo38> Bike: Ah, OK. It also explains the kind of mistake they made by typing "is is".
05:13:09 <quintopia> zzo38: it's the opposite of an anticipation error.
05:13:14 <quintopia> i would call it a recursion error
05:14:07 <Bike> it also explains how i just ate part of a toothpick by accident
05:14:15 <zzo38> Some of these .MOD files are nine bytes longer than my program expects, while others are the same size the program is expecting. Why is that?
05:14:38 <quintopia> oh
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05:14:43 <quintopia> it's called an addition
05:14:56 <quintopia> the opposite of an anticipation error is a perseveration error
05:17:17 <quintopia> A second kind is a semantic bias which shows a tendency for sound bias to create words that are semantically related to other words in the linguistic environment. Motley and Baars (1976) found that a word pair like "get one" will more likely slip to "wet gun" if the pair before it is "damp rifle". These results suggest that we are sensitive to how things are laid out semantically.[14]
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05:21:18 <oerjan> incidentally the word before "is is" was "it".
05:21:47 <Bike> linguistic errors are the bomb
05:27:10 <quintopia> okay so i get a massive error configuring git for install. i don't know what happen.
05:28:13 <quintopia> does sprunge not work anymore
05:29:08 <quintopia> sprunge is broken the world is falling apart
05:30:07 <oerjan> 500 Internal Server Error
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05:31:48 <quintopia> oerjan: can you tell me why these errors are happening pls pls pretty pls http://pastie.org/8555134
05:33:19 <oerjan> quintopia: missing .h files?
05:33:34 <quintopia> oerjan: looks like it. but how do i get them?
05:34:36 <oerjan> that i dunno.
05:35:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds).
05:36:16 <quintopia> also they look like pretty standard libs, and i've probably compiled against them before at some point...soooo where did they go?
05:36:44 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/MHuW96t.gif).
05:37:58 <quintopia> if i mv a directory to somewhere that directory already exists, will it just overwrite that directory in its entirety?
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05:39:48 <oerjan> quintopia: hm, i note they're not in /usr/include on nvg's machines either.
05:40:11 <quintopia> oerjan: because they are in /include i think
05:40:37 <quintopia> oerjan: but funny thing...heh...i accidentally mv'd /usr/include to /include the other day >.>
05:41:44 <oerjan> mv back?
05:41:58 <oerjan> oh right hm
05:42:24 <oerjan> quintopia: perhaps run a diff between the directories?
05:42:51 <quintopia> oerjan: how? /include is gone poof replaced with /usr/include
05:43:07 <quintopia> i need new copies of all those libs
05:43:17 <oerjan> you don't have a /usr/include at all now?
05:43:35 <quintopia> well, i have a soft link from there to /include
05:43:41 <oerjan> ic
05:43:54 <oerjan> was there an /include previously?
05:44:25 <quintopia> maybe not
05:44:28 <quintopia> i'm jsut guessing here
05:44:39 <quintopia> but either way i need some libraries that i don't have
05:45:16 <oerjan> here the files are in /usr/include/linux/stddef.h and /usr/include/c++/4.4/tr1/stdarg.h (also 4.3)
05:46:11 <oerjan> if you have those, maybe you are just missing the correct search paths?
05:46:22 <quintopia> yeah i have that
05:46:49 <quintopia> how do i check that
05:47:10 <quintopia> i mean, it found stdio just fine you can see
05:47:40 <oerjan> also, when i checked stdio.h only one of those files should actually be included if you have __GNUC__ set
05:49:53 <oerjan> i don't know how you set those paths.
05:51:00 <oerjan> i recommend asking someone who knows this stuff rather than guessing >:)
05:54:40 <quintopia> i am
05:54:42 <quintopia> thanks
05:55:00 <oerjan> you're welcome
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06:06:41 <Bike> man, that's still a great gif.
06:09:46 <quintopia> badger :D
06:12:30 <quintopia> wtf git wtf
06:39:57 <zzo38> Sprunge seems broken; instead of the URL getting output, I get an HTML document specifying 500 Internal Server Error.
06:42:31 <quintopia> zzo38: yes we discussed this above
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07:06:31 <zzo38> quintopia: I didn't notice it
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07:12:14 <zzo38> For the Elo rating system it is said "In some cases the rating system can discourage game activity for players who wish to protect their rating." Would inflation (like it is in money) help?
07:15:58 <zzo38> I don't really like many of the alternative systems that never decrease, either.
07:16:29 <lifthrasiir> zzo38: or decreasing the rating over the time?
07:18:45 <zzo38> lifthrasiir: It could be another possibility
07:19:27 <quintopia> zzo38: the easiest fix would be to prefer "newer" ratings. for instance, when lots of players have gained position but haven't played some high ranked old player, the system should simulate their playing that old player and try to guess what the rating would be if they had played. and it should err on the side of underguessing.
07:19:30 <zzo38> But I think using a rating system with reference dates selected (like epoch dates in astronomy are done) may do
07:20:05 <quintopia> thus the only way to keep your score accurate and not low-balled is to actually play
07:21:13 <zzo38> quintopia: Yes, I did also think of doing something like that, not exactly like your example though
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07:32:58 <fizzie> quintopia: If there was an "/include", and you did "mv /usr/include /include", you'd just have ended up with /usr/include as /include/include -- but usually there isn't an /include. (I don't have a better opinion on where those files could've gone, but being compiler-specific, they tend live in e.g. /usr/lib/gcc and come with the corresponding compiler package.)
07:33:12 <quintopia> fizzie: thanks
07:33:54 <fizzie> @tell oerjan If I were to go the Unicode way, I'd surely go with a multiocular o.
07:33:54 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:35:01 <oerjan> @tell fizzie I thought you were annoyed that gurgle looked different from google...
07:35:01 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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07:35:29 -!- conehead has joined.
07:35:41 <oerjan> @messages-told
07:35:41 <lambdabot> fizzie said 1m 47s ago: If I were to go the Unicode way, I'd surely go with a multiocular o.
07:36:21 <fizzie> @tell oerjan MULTIOCULAR
07:36:22 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:36:37 <oerjan> @tell fizzie OKAY
07:36:37 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
07:36:41 <fizzie> Okay, perhaps that is too silly.
07:36:51 <Bike> so why does @messages-whatever do @messages-loud
07:36:54 <Bike> @messages-
07:36:54 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
07:37:00 <Bike> fancy
07:37:09 <fizzie> Because of automagic typo correction.
07:37:11 <oerjan> @messages-sound
07:37:11 <lambdabot> fizzie said 49s ago: MULTIOCULAR
07:37:21 <Bike> @nessages-
07:37:21 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: messages? messages
07:37:26 <Bike> maybe i fucking didn't
07:37:29 <Bike> @nessages-loud
07:37:29 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
07:37:30 <fizzie> But only if it's closer (edit-distance-wise) than 2, and unambiguous.
07:37:32 <kmc> @butts
07:37:33 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
07:37:35 <Bike> oh, edit distance.
07:38:08 <oerjan> there's also a special case for an unambiguous prefix, iirc
07:38:17 <oerjan> @lis
07:38:18 <lambdabot> Maybe you meant: list listall listchans listmodules listservers
07:39:10 <Bike> @listclans
07:39:10 <lambdabot> ##categorytheory ##crypto ##logic ##manatee ##megaharem ##proggit ##villagegreen #agda #arch-haskell #csa_uva #darcs #diagrams #dreamlinux-es #esoteric #fedora-haskell #friendly-coders #functionaljava #gentoo-haskell #gentoo-uy #ghc #happs #haskell #haskell-arcade #haskell-blah #haskell-books #haskell-br #haskell-fr #haskell-freebsd #haskell-game
07:39:10 <lambdabot> #haskell-gsoc #haskell-in-depth #haskell-infrastructure #haskell-lens #haskell-llvm #haskell-overflow #haskell-pl #haskell-soc #haskell.au #haskell.cz #haskell.de #haskell.dut #haskell.es #haskell.fi #haskell.hr #haskell.it #haskell.jp #haskell.no #haskell.ru #haskell.se #haskell.tw #haskell_ru #hscraft-srv #jhc #jtiger #learnanycomputerlanguage #
07:39:10 <lambdabot> learnprogramming #ledger #lesswrong #lw-prog #macosx #macosxdev #rosettacode #scala #scalaz #scannedinavian #snapframework #tanuki #teamunix #unicycling #xmonad #yi
07:39:15 <Bike> cripes, sorry
07:39:26 <Bike> should i even ask about megaharem
07:39:35 <kmc> @dick-balls
07:39:35 <lambdabot> Unknown command, try @list
07:39:35 <oerjan> YOU WILL BE SORRY
07:39:46 <kmc> ##megaharem??
07:39:53 <fizzie> That's a lot of channels.
07:40:11 <myname> wtf megaharem
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07:41:02 <myname> also, ALL the haskell
07:41:51 <kmc> hrvatski
07:41:57 <fizzie> http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8753/y3g7.png uh (topic of ##megaharem)
07:42:22 <kmc> c.c
07:42:51 <Bike> i uh
07:43:00 <oerjan> looks liberal
07:43:37 <myname> patrick seems to have fun
07:43:47 <Bike> these people aren't fictional, are they
07:44:17 <fizzie> The topic also contains Patrick's TODO list: http://piratepad.net/nB6tkjjE70
07:44:22 <fizzie> (I didn't *go* there, I just /list'd.)
07:44:43 <Bike> oh, i forgot you can do that.
07:45:07 <Bike> the real travesty here is that they didn't use dotty
07:45:19 <kmc> yes I have a friend who maintains such a graph using Graphviz
07:45:25 <elliott> #haskell/2013-10-31.log:16:42:15 <LeoTal> @tell elliott Hi! I'd like lambdabot to @join ##megaharem. I was told to pester you for the relevant privileges.
07:45:32 <kmc> theirs is a bit too complicated to do in mspaint though
07:45:38 <kmc> plus mspaint is just a big turnoff
07:45:43 <elliott> lambdabot/2013-11-02.log:15:31:31 <lambdabot> LeoTal said 1d 22h 49m 15s ago: Hi! I'd like lambdabot to @join ##megaharem. I was told to pester you for the relevant privileges.
07:45:46 <elliott> lambdabot/2013-11-02.log:15:31:57 <elliott> @join ##megaharem
07:46:01 <Bike> i actually learned dotty from similar diagrams
07:46:04 <fizzie> lambdabot: I guess you go everywhere you're asked, huh?
07:46:06 <Bike> i don't know how to feel about that suddenly
07:46:11 <Bike> monotone: you're a monster.
07:46:13 <kmc> the real question is, where is lambdabot on the graph
07:46:43 <myname> it's probably patrick
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07:47:30 <fizzie> I made a similar graph on #esoteric once, using a thresholded version of the nick-mentioning matrix as an adjacency matrix (and GraphViz, of course), but that didn't really look terribly good.
07:47:42 <Bike> yeah, the graphs had thousands of nodes.
07:47:53 <Bike> opening an svg forced me to do a hard restart.
07:48:11 <Bike> not my most brilliant plan
07:49:17 <myname> fizzie: omg that is a great idea
07:49:34 <myname> i just have to think about how to make newick into fancy ascii art
07:52:07 <fizzie> I can't seem to find the graphs I did draw.
07:52:29 <fizzie> It really was just http://zem.fi/ircvis/esoteric/people_mentions.html in graph form, though.
07:53:37 <fizzie> Perhaps I should've used something else than a global threshold for the edges, though. Like a per-node maximum degree limit.
07:54:05 <fizzie> (Though that would be kind of lying.)
07:54:32 <quintopia> myname: it's patrick
07:55:00 <myname> fizzie: i would've made something like a phylogenetic tree
07:55:33 <myname> with shorter distances, the more people talk with each other
07:56:06 <Bike> that's not phylogenic /or/ genetic >:
07:56:16 <myname> oh, yeah
07:56:54 <fizzie> The graph is also pretty clearly not a tree. (See: loops.)
07:57:14 <myname> you are right
07:57:16 <myname> well...
07:57:28 <fizzie> You could make a maximum-weight spanning tree out of it, though.
07:57:33 <fizzie> If you wanted a tree, anyway.
07:57:51 <Bike> http://biologicalmarginalia.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/cladistics-of-doom/
07:58:52 <myname> Bike: so... you are one of these... biological people?
07:59:09 <fizzie> Unlike all us machine people.
07:59:18 <Bike> myname: working on it
07:59:52 <myname> Bike: i have one course as minor subject
08:00:10 <Bike> what?
08:02:13 <myname> http://medicalbioinformatics.de/teaching/item/19710-algorithmic-bioinformatics (won't help you much, because it's german)
08:02:43 <Bike> i'm basically imagining a course in computational cladistics.
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08:03:06 <Bike> oh, you do sequence alignment too. yeah, usual stuff
08:03:20 <Bike> pretty neat but i dunno much bioinformatics beyond implementing bitap on a lark once :p
08:03:40 <Bike> ooh proteins too huh. any folding?
08:03:52 <myname> we are on it, currently
08:04:07 <myname> pretty hard for a computer science student
08:04:09 <Bike> i guess that's the cliche thing but there must be other things, like molecular cladistics or finding domains or some shit
08:04:30 <myname> also: why do people know "bioinformatics" but not "informatics"?
08:05:00 <Bike> why do they know DNA but not nucleic acids
08:05:38 <Bike> i don't really know what 'informatics' is. i just kind of imagine library science
08:05:57 <Bike> anyway what's hard about bioinformatics. everybody's like ten years behind in software development
08:05:59 <shachaf> bioïnformatics
08:06:33 <myname> Bike: well, "bioinformatics" is "bioinformatik" in german and "computer science" is "informatik" in german
08:06:41 <myname> pretty strange for me
08:06:42 <Bike> Oh.
08:06:47 <Bike> Not like that in English.
08:07:04 <Bike> well i guess there's 'information technology'.
08:07:16 <myname> but you are right, programming stuff is pretty easy
08:07:24 <quintopia> it looks like lambdabot talks to itself a lot
08:07:28 <myname> even though i really hate biojava
08:07:37 <Bike> like i said, ten years behind.
08:07:47 <Bike> my lab uses DOS programs, man
08:07:55 <myname> hahaha
08:08:09 <Bike> "they work, so noboy's bothered moving them"
08:08:15 <myname> i never heard about webservices before, ever
08:08:27 <quintopia> also it's hard to tell whether optbot talked to elliott or fungot more (elliott by a nose)
08:08:27 <fungot> quintopia: and other variables. ever. ( great game too) http://gamegarage.co.uk/ play/ mousegame/
08:08:30 <myname> like, why the hell do you want to send ugly soap stuff via http?
08:08:45 <myname> soap in java sucks even more than java alone
08:08:56 <kmc> fungot: are you in the largest connected component
08:08:56 <fungot> kmc: combinator theory: a function with an arbitrary limit on height?
08:08:57 <Bike> the lab program i actually work on outputs tables as text files full of \ts
08:09:02 <Bike> so, shut up, you got it good son
08:09:22 <kmc> lawn, kids, etc
08:09:36 <myname> until now i can't figure out how to make a single soapelement to send as an argument to a method
08:09:45 <Bike> it's not an age thing, it's an oh god does it get worse thing.
08:09:49 <myname> because every soapelement has to have a soapelement as parent
08:09:55 <Bike> i mean, at least i'm not using excel.
08:10:31 <shachaf> fungot: why am i even awake
08:10:31 <fungot> shachaf: get him a helmet!" was the subject of the day! the simulator hangs after 5300 ticks, both as an applet or standalone.))
08:11:01 <shachaf> what if someone kidnapped fungot and substituted a fungot simulator
08:11:01 <fungot> shachaf: i don't think i'll be of much help to you. using ncurses doesen't mean using panels, because i read the archive, which doesn't really teach anyways!! you don't want to
08:11:16 <kmc> plan fungot from outer space
08:11:16 <fungot> kmc: look there is no stdin stdout, but doesn't do anything about warnings.
08:11:43 <shachaf> would we even notice
08:11:54 <kmc> not fungot but another bot of the same name
08:11:54 <fungot> kmc: i can't read
08:11:58 <shachaf> fungot: are you the real fungot
08:11:58 <fungot> shachaf: it strikes me also fnord it could be worthwhile to skim the logs from fnord for info on why it's called fnord
08:12:02 <kmc> fungot: that explains a lot (??)
08:12:02 <fungot> kmc: is the path taken through the fsa) it prints nothing)
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08:12:49 <myname> Bike: after about 10 sessions or so one bioinformatics student asked why it is so much repetition
08:12:56 <myname> i was like "what the fuck, man?"
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08:13:10 <Bike> i don't get it
08:13:31 <myname> this course seems to be boring for most of them
08:13:41 <myname> because they already had nearly everything
08:13:46 <Bike> oh
08:13:57 <Bike> maybe i should clarify that i'm not in bioinformatics. i'm the guy spitting out original data in a unique undocumented format that i need you to send to my pal in spain
08:14:10 <myname> :D
08:14:35 <myname> sounds equally painful
08:14:45 <kmc> hello i am prince of nigeria i have USD $100,000,000 of bioinformatics data
08:14:46 <fizzie> quintopia: Most of those lambdabot mentions are from lambdabot asking people to /msg lambdabot @messages.
08:15:01 <Bike> i'm mostly working before the data-reading part so the pain is just in people who don't know how to code, and hey what else is new.
08:15:08 <kmc> whither ruddy
08:15:09 <quintopia> fizzie: oh of course
08:15:45 <kmc> died on the way to his home planet??
08:15:57 <Bike> maybe someday i'll have to parse a few hundred measurements of sarcomere length data sorted by salmon acclimation temperature. livin the dream
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08:15:59 <shachaf> what's your home planet
08:15:59 <kmc> /nick kmc|notdrunk
08:16:05 <kmc> shachaf: earth
08:16:12 <shachaf> BatrickRobotham
08:16:23 <kmc> can jews eat robot ham
08:16:35 <shachaf> kmc: hang on just a minute are you drunk
08:16:55 <shachaf> v. clever trick but i've found you out
08:16:59 <Bike> if he was drunk would he mime indicating he was drunk? think logically shachaf
08:17:10 <kmc> You've laid some kind of trap!
08:17:38 <shachaf> i have no home planet
08:17:43 <shachaf> i'm from space.........chu space
08:18:03 <zzo38> If you are drunk you would accidentally mime indicating you are drunk. If you are not drunk then you will do it on purpose instead.
08:18:05 <quintopia> what do you call a very very small chu space?
08:18:09 -!- doesthiswork has quit (Quit: Leaving.).
08:18:43 <shachaf> zzo38: or what if you're lying
08:19:51 <kmc> `addquote <shachaf> i'm from space.........chu space
08:19:55 <zzo38> shachaf: That doesn't matter; the result will be the same if you are lying or not.
08:19:57 <HackEgo> 1145) <shachaf> i'm from space.........chu space
08:20:11 <kmc> zzo38: where I'm from, drunk people do integral calculus to try to demonstrate they aren't drunk
08:20:28 <quintopia> kmc: why do sober people do integral calculus
08:20:36 <shachaf> what kmc that's not even a good quote
08:20:43 <myname> because they study physics?
08:20:49 <quintopia> (something tells me breathalyzer tests are more accurate than calculus tests)
08:20:52 <kmc> we will protect you from the terrible secret of chu space
08:21:19 <myname> if shachaf is from chu space, i want to be from Pspace
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08:22:03 * kmc tries to remember why NPSPACE isn't a thing
08:22:21 <kmc> it's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savitch%27s_theorem
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08:22:32 <kmc> the thing about space is that you can reuse space but you can't reuse time
08:23:02 <Bike> hey that's pretty deep and stuff
08:23:10 <kmc> also NSPACE(s(n)) = co-NSPACE(s(n)) for any function s(n) ≥ log n ???? what a country
08:23:12 <oerjan> <kmc> zzo38: where I'm from, drunk people do integral calculus to try to demonstrate they aren't drunk <-- i recall doing that once.
08:23:17 <Bike> what a country
08:23:24 <Bike> i on't even know what co nspacce is fuck
08:23:42 <myname> Bike: you seem drunk
08:23:55 <Bike> drunk on compllexity classes
08:24:14 <Bike> #P^{my dick}
08:24:33 <kmc> is your dick a useful oracle
08:24:46 <elliott> btw who joined that channel and mentioned #esoteric
08:24:56 <myname> it can tell whether or not he want to do it with someone in polynomial time
08:25:00 <elliott> if you're going to gossip about random innocents at least don't barge in and make a fool of yourself??
08:25:12 <Bike> kmc: #P^{my dick} is actually log :(
08:25:18 <oerjan> elliott: i guess they attracted PatrickRobotham?
08:25:22 <myname> lmao
08:25:39 <Bike> does that actually mean it's worse, i'm not sure how 'worse' is
08:25:54 <kmc> your dick is so bad that it reduces the power of any complexity class
08:26:00 <Bike> yes right
08:26:05 <kmc> is this like... @dril teaches cs
08:26:07 <oerjan> should have `relcomed him
08:26:30 <kmc> elliott: which channe/
08:26:38 <kmc> whoops sorry that 'l' fell over
08:26:45 <shachaf> kmc: the chu space papers keep train analogies
08:26:47 <kmc> letter hasty placement, we sincerely regret the error
08:26:49 <shachaf> coincidence?
08:26:51 <shachaf> ïïïïï
08:26:55 <kmc> are they chu chu analogies?
08:26:55 <Bike> i am skeptical of the concept of 'too big to be tractable' because i am huge and in traction all the time
08:27:01 <shachaf> hard to tell
08:27:24 <elliott> kmc: ##megaharem, presumably
08:27:28 <kmc> oh
08:27:35 <kmc> it's rude to just bust into another man's harem
08:27:39 <elliott> (per /msg chanserv access list ##megaharem)
08:27:55 <Bike> also, illegal, in the original meaning of harem
08:28:00 <Bike> watch it friends
08:28:19 <myname> but there are already men in this harem
08:28:25 <kmc> have we declared any fatwas recently
08:28:38 <Bike> god i want to see a chick in a niqab with a siren yelling PURDAH VIOLATION
08:28:44 <Bike> like a siren hat, see
08:29:02 <kmc> /!\
08:29:23 <kmc> /!\
08:29:39 <shachaf> /⚠\
08:29:39 <Bike> kmc strictly observes purdah
08:29:44 <kmc> doubtful
08:29:48 <Bike> shachaf meanwhile is a freemason
08:29:54 <kmc> shachaf: do you have stairs in your house
08:30:12 <kmc> i mean uh "who will help the widow's son"
08:30:44 <shachaf> i am a stairs
08:30:50 <kmc> that happened to me once
08:30:56 <kmc> salvia's a hell of a drug
08:31:13 <shachaf> is it good
08:31:16 <kmc> not really
08:31:49 <kmc> do you like existential nightmares that will haunt you for the rest of your life
08:31:52 <kmc> if so then i highly recommend it
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08:32:20 <shachaf> is that the dual of universla nightmares
08:32:30 <kmc> yes, the universal nightmare is the one we're already living
08:32:39 <kmc> <kmc> letter hasty placement <--- wow I transposed an entire word
08:32:59 <olsner> word hasty placement too
08:33:35 <shachaf> one time i transposed the entire world
08:33:42 <fizzie> Bah, I found one "relationship graph" but it's not #esoteric, it's -- actually, never mind, it's too complicated to explain.
08:33:55 <kmc> one time I shifted the entire universe up and to the left but nobody noticed
08:33:58 <kmc> fizzie: is it?
08:34:23 <fizzie> Well, I mean, I think it's from darkhive data.
08:34:41 <kmc> what's darkhive?
08:34:48 <fizzie> See, that's exactly what I meant.
08:35:02 <kmc> i begin to understand
08:35:43 <oerjan> kmc: actually we noticed but emmy noether got us all to ignore it
08:35:55 <kmc> I don't think there's been much relationship involvement between #esoteric members... unless I'm missing something
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08:37:13 <oerjan> until you and shachaf started hanging out i would have been hard pressed to remember anyone who'd even met
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08:37:32 <fizzie> I've met ineiros, but that doesn't really count for much.
08:37:44 <fizzie> Also mooz, but.
08:38:10 <fizzie> And Deewiant's allegedly seen me.
08:38:14 <Taneb> I've herded a couple of lurkers onto the channel from York
08:38:22 <oerjan> eek
08:38:45 <fizzie> I have the weirdest idea that oklopol and oerjan met somewhere in Norway, but perhaps I dreamed that.
08:39:11 <oerjan> no, that didn't happen
08:39:23 <fizzie> Perhaps oklopol met someone else, then.
08:40:45 <shachaf> i have met 5 people in this channel and several people who used to be in this channel but are no more
08:41:01 <fizzie> I might theoretically have met atehwa somewhere, but that's not certain at all.
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08:42:21 <Taneb> I have met two lurkers.
08:42:30 <kmc> i failed to meet any of you when I was in .fi
08:42:35 <kmc> but I've met shachaf and Gracenotes
08:42:37 <Taneb> I have met someone who has met elliott, and probably someone who has met ais523
08:42:40 <shachaf> and douglass_
08:42:42 <kmc> and I live with douglass_
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08:42:54 <shachaf> and copumpkin
08:42:59 <kmc> yep
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08:45:25 <fizzie> See, it's not a completely edgeless graph.
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08:45:38 <kmc> the in-person-meeting graph?
08:45:52 <shachaf> imo the hug graph
08:45:58 <kmc> yeah douglass_ has also met shachaf and Gracenotes; the four of us played mölkky together in the park, it was great
08:46:06 <kmc> and maybe she's even met copumpkin
08:46:07 <shachaf> there was also a dog
08:46:19 <fizzie> The "relationship" graph. I mean, we're going to have to extend that to "ever met in real life" to get at least something going.
08:46:44 <shachaf> kmc: does your house have mölkky things yet
08:46:48 <kmc> shachaf: to say nothing of the dog
08:46:59 <shachaf> kmc: oopse i have failed to say nothing of the dog
08:47:03 <shachaf> but i did read that book
08:47:34 <kmc> me too
08:47:36 <kmc> thanks 2 u
08:47:44 <kmc> shachaf: it hasn't :/
08:48:07 <oerjan> "How not to speak of dogs" by Dr. Zwinglish Gerademeister
08:48:13 <shachaf> wait which book
08:48:26 <kmc> three men in a boat to say &c.
08:48:29 <kmc> i have read it
08:48:39 <kmc> "it hasn't :/" was re: mölkky-things
08:48:47 <shachaf> there's _Three Men in a Boat (To Say Nothing of the Dog)_ by Jerome K. Jerome
08:48:52 <kmc> mölkky-þing
08:48:54 <Sgeo> I want to see people use combinators inside TH expressions
08:48:58 <shachaf> but there's also _To Say Nothing of the Dog_ by Connie Willis
08:49:04 <kmc> shachaf: oh i don't know this one
08:49:05 <Sgeo> Rather than falling back on making quasiquoters
08:49:05 <shachaf> i've read both
08:49:16 <kmc> is it good
08:49:19 <kmc> the latter
08:50:14 <shachaf> hm i don't remember it v. well it was over a decade ago that i read it and also not in english so i didn't even remember that that was the title
08:50:21 <shachaf> but i think i enjoyed it
08:50:39 <shachaf> there was a cat plague in it that killed all cats on earth so they went back in time to bring cats from the past
08:50:50 <shachaf> or something like that??
08:50:59 <shachaf> but they had to find cats that wouldn't cause paradoxes
08:51:12 <olsner> so they got a dog instead?
08:51:15 <shachaf> am i making things up
08:51:18 <shachaf> hard to say
08:52:48 <oerjan> "I pay Jerome so much in royalties," the publisher told a friend, "I cannot imagine what becomes of all the copies of that book I issue. I often think the public must eat them."
08:52:51 <kmc> that's v. confusing
08:53:13 <shachaf> and then it turned out that the butler did it all along
08:53:46 <shachaf> and/or other things i can't remember
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08:54:54 <oerjan> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Say_Nothing_of_the_Dog
08:55:00 <kmc> spoilers!
08:55:39 <kmc> Win Butler did it
08:55:58 <Sgeo> I ... distrust many of the decisions of the Yesod framework, but if I could figure out how to make combinator based routes for Yesod for use in TH without the QQ, that would be nice
08:57:11 <shachaf> also someone in #cslounge-books recommended another book by the same author the other day or something
08:58:15 <kmc> i didn't know that's a channel
08:59:09 <shachaf> i think it only came into existence somewhat recently
09:00:32 <shachaf> oh and also the "time continuum" is conscious or something in order to correct paradoxes
09:00:35 <shachaf> or who even knows
09:02:21 <olsner> sounds like you're not supposed to think too much about how/what that is, just that it does
09:02:34 <shachaf> sounds like i'm supposed to go to sleep
09:02:39 <shachaf>
09:03:24 <olsner> hmm, judging by the time I'm supposed to go to work
09:04:54 <Taneb> Oh man, I never cleared out the trainers on this route
09:05:05 <Taneb> Now I've got my level 49 Snorlax into a battle
09:05:10 <Taneb> Against a level 9 Magikarp
09:05:46 <olsner> a level 49 snot salmon? sounds fierce
09:06:31 <FireFly> Taneb: playing X/Y?
09:07:11 <fizzie> FireFly: All Pokemen names in highlight, eh?
09:07:22 <FireFly> not really
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09:15:55 <Taneb> FireFly, yep
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09:29:57 <b_jonas> int-e: trailing zeros and saturated subtraction, understood, great.
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09:43:41 <fizzie> !SENT_START OF U. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. HAVE A BUYBACK OF YOUTH !SENT_END riiight
09:44:14 <kmc> would that i could
09:44:35 <olsner> fungot: do you still have the buyback of youth?
09:44:35 <fungot> olsner: nice to see that xml uses explicit renaming). using ( require ( lib " errortrace.ss" " errortrace")) doesn't do anything for the computed result
09:45:33 <fizzie> !SENT_START U. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. AGE BOY GEORGE K. K. K. K. K. K. K. K. !SENT_END
09:45:41 <fizzie> I guess that's not very good.
09:48:13 <kmc> what's with the U's and K's
09:48:50 <fizzie> I'unno.
09:49:19 <fizzie> Sometimes there's also I. and A.
09:49:53 <fizzie> It's also obsessed with buybacks.
09:50:42 <fizzie> fungot: It makes less sense than you!
09:50:42 <fungot> fizzie: actually english has that version too: " utility" only if you want to
09:50:57 <fizzie> Deep.
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10:12:36 <AnotherTest> Hello
10:16:25 <Taneb> Hi
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11:23:42 <fizzie> TIL: "The mouse visual cortex is like the smartphone of neuroscience. Everyone feels the need to get one, but it remains to be seen if it's a convenience or a distraction."
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13:22:15 <boily> good snowy morning!
13:22:22 <boily> @massages-loud
13:22:22 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2d 11h 43m 58s ago: You misspelled exercise on your user page
13:22:22 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2d 11h 18m 15s ago: <boily> good unpentadactyl morning! <-- my condolences on losing a finger
13:22:22 <lambdabot> oerjan asked 2d 10h 48m 53s ago: <boily> normally distributed glazed eyes served over bouchées of surreal bread rolls. <-- are you attempting to create québécois/r'lyehan fusion cuisine
13:22:58 <boily> @tell oerjan oops.
13:22:59 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:23:14 <boily> @tell oerjan I'm stuck with a prosthetic vimperator.
13:23:14 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
13:23:26 <boily> @tell oerjan la la la ♪
13:23:26 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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13:44:03 <boily> hellooodl. atangevlobriq.
13:44:46 <atriq> :P
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14:24:08 <fizzie> "You’re invited to try out the R2014a Prerelease with MATLAB" but I'm not sure I want to :/
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14:25:36 <boily> fizzie: you know you want to feel the MATLAB.
14:26:16 <fizzie> R2014a!
14:27:13 <boily> fungot: do you understand matlab?
14:27:13 <fungot> boily: i found it much more complicated than it needs to be public
14:27:21 <boily> fizzie: there ↑
14:27:38 <fizzie> fungot: You're certainly right about that. Whatever that means.
14:27:39 <fungot> fizzie: false, fnord) at the mzscheme source code:).
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14:27:48 <boily> `relcome ternkustik
14:27:50 <HackEgo> ternkustik: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
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14:52:16 <LinearInterpol> small question: how is Thue somehow enabled with nondeterminism? I'm confused by the example given.
14:52:30 <LinearInterpol> yes it expresses nondeterminism, but it doesn't make sense.
14:52:58 <LinearInterpol> are the two conflicting definitions somehow in some sort of race condition or something?
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15:10:19 <boily> if you're lucky → http://www.cisco.com/
15:11:16 <LinearInterpol> Woah.
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15:27:38 <boily> fungot: do you even netsplit, bro?
15:27:38 <fungot> boily: and do you? i know i have seen that multiple times, though
15:28:19 <boily> fungot: I did, about one hour ago.
15:28:19 <fungot> boily: hardware also helps in a whole directory as a file system
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15:37:17 <RJones_> lol.
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16:20:47 <LinearInterpol> Netsplit. Netsplit everywhere.
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16:21:34 <Bike> LinearInterpol: what don't you get about thue's nondeterminism
16:21:47 <LinearInterpol> how it works.
16:22:00 <LinearInterpol> I understand it's a rewrite system and everything but..
16:22:33 <LinearInterpol> does outputting symbols suddenly trigger a race condition or something?
16:22:35 <Bike> it's just that if more than one rule cn apply you have to pick one.
16:22:42 <LinearInterpol> oh.
16:22:49 <LinearInterpol> ohhhh.
16:22:51 <LinearInterpol> oh..
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16:23:30 <LinearInterpol> so underneath you're just essentially using something like an RNG to select which definition to use.
16:23:59 <LinearInterpol> or something to that effect to make said decision.
16:24:05 <Bike> no. it's just not defined.
16:24:20 <Bike> you could always pick the first one, or always pick the last one, or use an RNG on alternate tuesdays.
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16:24:32 <LinearInterpol> alright.
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16:24:38 <LinearInterpol> but in, say, the javascript implementation..
16:24:43 <LinearInterpol> that's what I'm wondering.
16:25:12 <LinearInterpol> I mean abstractly yes it's undefined but my real gripe was in the implementation :P
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16:25:32 <Bike> Oh. Which one?
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16:25:41 <Bike> the one at "lolwh.at"?
16:25:51 <LinearInterpol> http://web.archive.org/web/20031210145310/http://cyberspace.org/~lament/thue.html
16:26:00 <LinearInterpol> 's the one that's linked on the wiki page.
16:26:08 <LinearInterpol> The one on Esolang gives me a 403.
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16:27:01 <Bike> It looks like it picks a rule randomly.
16:27:21 <LinearInterpol> I initially thought it was some kind of race condition setup.
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16:27:27 <LinearInterpol> But.
16:27:34 <LinearInterpol> It does look just.. random.
16:27:45 <Bike> "var selected = random_choice(matching_rules)"
16:28:02 <LinearInterpol> yep.
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16:51:26 <quintopia> hoily
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17:59:21 <boily> hintopia.
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18:26:28 <boily> `relcome shemarov
18:26:30 <HackEgo> shemarov: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:27:03 <boily> shachaf: wait. didn't I `relcome you already this morning?
18:27:13 <boily> s/shachaf/shemarov/
18:27:19 <shachaf> boily: No, you've never `relcomed me.
18:27:24 <shachaf> No one has.
18:27:31 <boily> shachaf: but I mistabcompleted you.
18:27:36 <boily> `relcome shachaf
18:27:39 <HackEgo> shachaf: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:27:43 <shachaf> `thanks boily
18:27:44 <HackEgo> Thanks, boily. Thoily.
18:28:19 <shachaf> kmc: "new wood stoves" would be a good name for a ban
18:29:34 <kmc> -_-
18:30:15 <fizzie> V. fancy, named bans.
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18:31:27 <shachaf> *!*@* would be a good name for a ban
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18:44:50 <mroman> Quick Question
18:45:17 <mroman> I'd like to do modulo 2 in brainfuck
18:45:23 <mroman> on the values 0,1 and 2
18:45:35 <mroman> so if(cell == 2) cell = 0 would work too
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18:47:49 <Slereah> What?
18:48:14 <Slereah> Do you mean binary BF or something else
18:49:29 <mroman> no
18:49:37 <mroman> but doesn't matter anyway
18:49:39 <mroman> Spacefish is TC
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18:50:23 <boily> mroman: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#x_.3D_x_.3D.3D_y, where y = 1?
18:51:35 <boily> (meanwhile, someone strange is doing something weird on IRC from
18:52:40 <mroman> well
18:52:44 <mroman> not 100% TC.
18:52:44 <mroman> But
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18:52:57 <mroman> http://codepad.org/Hf6likTu
18:53:02 <mroman> ^- that would be the principle
18:53:19 <mroman> I assumed 8 is the highest value
18:53:25 <mroman> but the same thing should apply to 255 as well
18:53:29 <mroman> you just need more spacing
18:54:32 <mroman> if you need a new cell, you set up the spacing
18:54:43 <mroman> and subtract 6 (the constant pre-known distortion) from it
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18:55:00 <boily> dmarat: who are you exactly?
18:55:23 <mroman> `python print(31 /2)
18:55:24 <HackEgo> python: can't open file 'print(31 /2)': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
18:55:32 <mroman> `python "print (31 /2)"
18:55:34 <HackEgo> python: can't open file '"print (31 /2)"': [Errno 2] No such file or directory
18:55:38 <mroman> hm
18:55:39 <mroman> whatever
18:55:43 <boily> `python -c 'print(31/2)'
18:55:45 <HackEgo> ​ File "<string>", line 1 \ 'print(31/2)' \ ^ \ IndentationError: unexpected indent
18:55:49 <boily> ...
18:55:52 * boily mapoles HackEgo
18:56:01 <boily> ~eval 31 `div` 2
18:56:02 <mrhmouse> `run python -c "print(31 / 2)"
18:56:03 <kmc> `run python -c 'print(31/2)'
18:56:04 <HackEgo> 15
18:56:04 <HackEgo> 15
18:56:08 <metasepia> Error (1):
18:56:14 * boily facepalms
18:56:16 <boily> ~eval 31 `div` 2
18:56:17 <metasepia> 15
18:56:24 <mrhmouse> @messages-lood
18:56:25 <lambdabot> oerjan said 2d 16h 44m 57s ago: (Control.Arrow.>>>)
18:56:37 <boily> mrhmouse: well, there is also [->+>-[>+>>]>[+[-<+>]>+>>]<<<<<<] for divmodding.
18:56:39 <shachaf> :t (Control.Category.>>>)
18:56:41 <lambdabot> Category cat => cat a b -> cat b c -> cat a c
18:56:46 <mrhmouse> @tell oerjan Thanks!
18:56:46 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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18:57:53 <mrhmouse> Though I don't think that's what I was looking for :P
18:58:17 <mrhmouse> I _think_ I wanted (a -> b) -> (c -> a) -> (c -> b)
18:58:31 <Bike> composition?
18:58:45 <mrhmouse> Bike: yes.. wait.. I may have it backwards.
18:58:55 <Bike> flip (.) ofc
18:58:57 <mrhmouse> I was looking for something like F#'s |> operator, out of curiousity
18:59:07 <Bike> ain't got time for that nerd shit
18:59:21 <mrhmouse> Bike you are my favorite person.
18:59:32 <mrhmouse> Er, mode of transportation
18:59:35 <mroman> http://codepad.org/QCN9hF7a
18:59:42 <mroman> Works for 255 too
18:59:46 * boily sews wedding dresses for mrhmouse and Bike
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18:59:56 <mrhmouse> boily, can I borrow your mapole?
19:00:03 <Bike> i'm an athlete, everybody loves me
19:00:31 <mroman> Now one just needs to find a way to determine when to allocate more memory
19:00:51 <mroman> at least it's a finite state machine
19:01:05 <boily> mrhmouse: please yourself, go nuts, have fun, enjoy the mapole!
19:01:45 <mroman> If you know how much memory your program needs, you can do the space initialization at program start
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19:02:30 * mrhmouse mapoles boily
19:02:39 * mrhmouse gives it back
19:03:09 <mroman> Maybe one can check if one has wrapped around
19:03:13 <mroman> and then allocate more memory
19:03:20 <boily> mrhmouse: bleh :p
19:03:23 <mroman> which would require to perform a memory check after every > or <
19:03:26 <mroman> but hey
19:04:00 <mroman> Can you check in Brainfuck for a certain cell value without using any other cell?
19:04:20 <Slereah> Without changing it?
19:04:38 <mroman> Well
19:04:47 <mroman> after the check it must have the same value as before the check
19:05:00 <Bike> uh, how are you outputting a result then.
19:05:06 <mroman> You could then set 'tape end' markers
19:05:15 <mroman> and after every > or < you check if you are at the end of the tape
19:05:20 <mroman> and then just allocate more memory
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19:06:28 <mroman> maybe
19:06:38 <mroman> oh wait
19:06:41 <mroman> you can use other cells
19:06:45 <mroman> I guess
19:07:15 <mroman> you can use the spacing cells between real cells for temporary values
19:07:24 <mroman> but you have to set them to 0 after you're done
19:09:31 <Bike> that still doesn't explain output.
19:10:42 <mroman> ah
19:10:49 <mroman> I'll leave it to some bf-expert to figure out the rest :D
19:15:34 <mroman> Well
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19:16:24 <mroman> My bachelor thesis is gonna be about simulating masses of people in buildings
19:17:50 <mroman> to determine if the building is capable of handling thousands of people walking different routes without jamming up
19:17:54 <mroman> like train stations
19:18:32 <mroman> if I'm actually doing the whole bachelor stuff
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19:39:28 <oklopol> ooh masses of people
19:39:38 <oklopol> i like it
19:40:21 <mroman> or "groups of lots of people"
19:41:03 <boily> are calculations easier if you consider masses of groups of lots of people as a continous fluid?
19:41:23 <mroman> mayb
19:41:59 <boily> the flow of people from floor to floor, gushing down staircases like the Niagara :D
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19:42:26 <mroman> it's a differential equation based approach
19:44:22 <boily> Navier-Stokes the liquid out of that approach.
19:44:32 <mroman> Probably not
19:44:42 <mroman> Navier-Stokes sounds sciency
19:46:21 <boily> engineeringly sciency.
19:47:12 <mroman> I have no idea of sciency stuff
19:47:58 <quintopia> hoily
19:48:08 <boily> hintopia.
19:49:15 <olsner> hmm, a map of a subway is not an optimal mouse pad for optical mice
19:49:38 <olsner> the cursor tends to follow the subway lines
19:49:56 <quintopia> boily: i notice you have written some interpreters in python others in ruby. what do you do your work code in?
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19:51:37 <boily> quintopia: python.
19:52:07 <quintopia> aubergine needs a python interp
19:52:20 <boily> I had my ruby phase when I was younger, back when I was still in Cégep. I'd say... 16 to 18 year old.
19:52:34 <boily> aubergine does need a python interp.
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19:52:46 <FreeFull> Write all interpreters in brainfuck
19:52:50 <boily> or a Haskell one. I could create an Aubergine monad :D
19:53:10 <FreeFull> Haskell is too easy =P
19:53:14 <quintopia> if you don't python it, i will eventually
19:53:38 <olsner> huh, there's an ISO Ruby nowadays
19:53:53 <boily> quintopia: suit yourself! (or the Québécois version: «gâte toé!»)
19:53:57 <boily> olsner: say what?
19:54:18 <quintopia> what is groovy
19:54:39 <quintopia> i'm guessing grails is groovy on rails
19:55:00 <olsner> (if I read more I expect to find it deprecated and completely incompatible with any ruby version that the rubyites are willing to use, it's already a year old after all)
19:56:14 <olsner> boily: e.g. http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=59579
19:58:34 <boily> only CAD 283.60!
20:13:08 <doesthiswork> I've been playing around with something like delimited continuations and they are the most fun and mindbending ever
20:13:54 -!- LinearInterpol has joined.
20:18:55 <doesthiswork> (reset (list 1 (reset (list 2 (shift k (list 3 (funcall (k 4) 5))) (list 6 (shift w #'w)))))) => (1 (3 (2 4 (6 5))))
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21:00:36 <quintopia> could anyone give step-by-step instructions for how one would construct Truth-machine in Onoz?
21:04:30 <kmc> oh god delimited continuations
21:08:20 <doesthiswork> :D
21:08:59 <kmc> maybe i've given up on understanding them :/
21:10:41 <doesthiswork> I just used a macro to make my mock version of shift reset
21:11:09 <doesthiswork> they aren't /that/ hard to understand
21:11:13 <doesthiswork> i think
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21:14:19 <boily> doesthiswork is beginning to show multiple personalities, one of them understanding delimited continuations.
21:15:38 <doesthiswork> I can successfully walk through them, it's just sometimes they don't do what I expect until I do
21:23:37 <quintopia> where is ais523. he'd know how to construct an infinite loop which is not provably so
21:24:06 * kmc uses a delimited continuation to jump to another timeline where he understands delimited continuations
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21:27:18 <doesthiswork> they're really fun to nest
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22:32:04 <mrhmouse> which reglangs do people in #esoteric use?
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22:33:47 <kmc> non-eso langs?
22:35:52 <mrhmouse> kmc: yes.
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22:37:24 <mrhmouse> I know many here use Haskell, but talk earlier regarding Python, Ruby, Groovy, etc has me interested in what else is in use. I know that you, at least, use Rust
22:38:47 <Taneb> I am currently forced to use Python
22:39:04 <mrhmouse> Taneb: for university?
22:39:07 <Taneb> Aye
22:39:10 <kmc> I used to write Haskell quite often, but not lately
22:41:01 <kmc> lately it's mostly Rust, Python, C, Bash, GNU Make, JavaScript, x86 assembly
22:41:06 <Bike> lisps for fuckwithing, matlab at woik
22:41:19 <Bike> and i have a few things in verilog and javascript i should really finish.
22:43:30 <kmc> i have been paid to write perl, haskell, c, c++, java, assembly, shell, make, rust, javascript, prolly some others
22:43:33 <kmc> scheme if being a TA counts
22:43:51 <shachaf> remember when you were paid to write nops
22:44:07 <kmc> yep
22:46:09 <mrhmouse> I currently use C#, CoffeeScript, and D most often. I'm learning Erlang & OCaml, and I have to use C#/JavaScript/T-SQL at work.
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22:47:24 <mrhmouse> kmc: you were paid to write makefiles? specifically for the makefiles, or were they part of other projects you were on?
22:47:52 <Bike> a programming project wth one person working specifically n the build process would be kind of neat.
22:48:05 <kmc> that's common on large projects
22:48:17 <kmc> it rapidly grows to be a full-time job
22:48:26 <kmc> especially if you support lots of platforms
22:48:36 <kmc> mrhmouse: part of other projects
22:49:48 <mrhmouse> does Rust have a dependency management system? I've been language-hopping lately looking for a language that I like _and_ that has a good dep manager.
22:50:27 <mrhmouse> something like NPM for NodeJS, Ruby Gems, D's Dub, Rebar, etc etc..
22:52:42 <kmc> not really
22:53:20 <kmc> there's this rustpkg thing but it's not very complete
22:53:52 <kmc> and I don't know about the current pace of development, since the main developer left Mozilla
22:54:14 <kmc> you could look for docs or ask in #rust on irc.mozilla.org; they probably have a better idea how capable it is
22:54:17 <kmc> I've only used it a little
22:54:55 <kmc> the project I work on uses Make for the top-level build, and does build some individual dependencies with rustpkg, but we're having problems with it and we're probably switching away
22:55:23 <mrhmouse> I was only curious; Rust struck me as too low-level for my needs when I checked it out ages ago. Though their pointer types seem far nicer than C++
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22:55:50 <kmc> it is a low-level language, yeah, though it's memory safe at the same time, which is really cool
22:56:18 <kmc> and yeah, the pointer types express concepts which exist in C and C++, but in those languages they exist mostly in the programmer's head and can't be checked automatically
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22:57:48 <mrhmouse> I remember thinking that was useful (owned pointers, I think they're called?)
22:58:35 <kmc> yeah C also has a notion of pointers which transfer ownership vs. those which don't
22:58:52 <shachaf> C or just C programmers?
22:58:53 <kmc> for example, strdup takes the latter and returns the former
22:59:07 <kmc> but there's zero compiler checking and if you screw it up you corrupt memory
22:59:16 <kmc> shachaf: well, C APIs anyway
22:59:30 <mrhmouse> right, so it's not part of the language spec like in Rusy
22:59:44 <kmc> yeah
22:59:44 <mrhmouse> s/sy/st
22:59:53 <LinearInterpol> woo, C!
23:00:00 <kmc> i mention this by way of heading off the criticism (not from you, but in general) that Rust has too many pointer types
23:00:06 <fizzie> mrhmouse: s|$|/|
23:00:07 <shachaf> on the other hand i heard that you can't do self.tree = <a thing that uses self.tree> in rust
23:00:08 <kmc> it's just codifying and checking things that already exist
23:00:31 <mrhmouse> fizzie: but that yields "Rus", no?
23:00:44 <fizzie> mrhmouse: No, it just adds the / you were missing.
23:00:52 <mrhmouse> fizzie: d'oh!
23:01:20 <Bike> kievan rus't
23:01:46 <kmc> fizzie: regexes operating on regexes? that should be an esolang, oh wait
23:03:00 <mrhmouse> honestly I'd prefer to use C# more at home, but the most popular package manager has some issues on Mono
23:03:43 <kmc> :/
23:03:58 <kmc> yeah, C# seems like a pretty good language, but I'm scared off using it more due to my impression that non-MS tools are half-baked
23:04:46 <mrhmouse> kmc: I can't vouch for MonoDevelop, if that's what you mean. I primarily use Vim & gmcs directly
23:05:07 <mrhmouse> Mono itself is pretty mature, though.
23:05:39 <kmc> that's good
23:05:42 <kmc> but this package manager isn't?
23:05:59 <mrhmouse> it's just that NuGet (the MS package manager) does things like hardcode paths to look for config files (%AppData%\LocalLow\something)
23:06:12 <kmc> sigh
23:06:30 <mrhmouse> so it's more on the NuGet devs :/
23:07:01 <mrhmouse> also, NuGet really shouldn't have existed in the first place.. there was already a package manager in place that works cross-platform, but MS rolled their own
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23:09:24 <Bike> http://chainsawsuit.com/comic/2013/12/16/the-age-of-bitcoins-is-over/
23:11:17 <oerjan> @messages-lot
23:11:17 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 48m 18s ago: oops.
23:11:17 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 48m 3s ago: I'm stuck with a prosthetic vimperator.
23:11:17 <lambdabot> boily said 9h 47m 50s ago: la la la ♪
23:11:17 <lambdabot> mrhmouse said 4h 14m 31s ago: Thanks!
23:41:25 <Bike> http://blog.moertel.com/posts/2013-12-14-great-old-timey-game-programming-hack.html fun stuff
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23:44:59 <Fiora> Bike: oh gosh, the messing with the stack pointer thing. that reminds me of a post I saw once on how to get 8 registers on x86
23:45:09 <Fiora> by stuffing the stack pointer in a memory location and using esp as a register
23:45:09 <Bike> i'm afraid.
23:45:13 <Bike> yes.
23:45:27 <Bike> i'm just kind of in awe that there was a "zero page" you could make be anywhere
23:45:32 <Fiora> it sounded like the kind of thing that could make the OS hate you
23:45:45 <Fiora> gosh, yeah, I still don't really understand the zero page thing, like, I've seen it in documentation for these old things but it's weird
23:46:47 <olsner> instructions with a single byte offset can access the zero page in one cycle less than an instruction with two bytes offset
23:46:53 <kmc> this thing has an OS?
23:47:02 <olsner> (due to being one byte smaller)
23:47:08 <Bike> well like, 6502 had two-byte addressing, where each one-byte block was a "page", and there was an addressing mode where you just use the second byte and the first byte is zero.
23:47:11 <Bike> or dp, on this thing
23:50:18 <kmc> AVR is kind of like that too
23:50:31 <kmc> the "registers" are just the first n bytes of RAM, with a special compact addressing mode
23:51:18 <int-e> yay, zero page.
23:51:58 <Bike> so in Metroid all your stats were in the zp, as i remember
23:53:30 <LinearInterpol> what'cha discussin'.
23:54:20 <oerjan> magic.
23:54:26 <LinearInterpol> 6502 you say
23:54:49 <LinearInterpol> index registers ftw.
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