←2013-12-29 2013-12-30 2013-12-31→ ↑2013 ↑all
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00:13:25 <quintopia> Vorpal: what platform is it for
00:17:54 <Vorpal> quintopia, PC, Xbox360 and also maybe PS3 I think?
00:17:58 <Vorpal> I played it on PC
00:18:02 <Vorpal> that is Windows btw
00:18:06 <Vorpal> Not Linux alas
00:18:21 <quintopia> Vorpal: well that's too bad. let me know when it gets ported to android :D
00:18:35 <Vorpal> quintopia, also you *really* need a game pad to play it, since you control one character with each analog stick
00:19:39 <quintopia> Vorpal: why can't i just use each half of a portrait-mode touchscreen?
00:20:03 <Vorpal> quintopia, well it isn't on a touch screen device
00:20:20 <quintopia> Vorpal: you see my quandary
00:20:22 <Vorpal> Anyway I found touch screen game pad controls pretty terrible compared to the real deal
00:20:53 <quintopia> Vorpal: they can be. but they can be good too. for instance, survivalcraft on android
00:20:57 <Vorpal> I generally use my PS3 controller with my Nexus 10 tablet when playing that type of android game
00:21:05 <Vorpal> Works pretty well, but requires root
00:21:33 <Vorpal> There is a really good app for PS3 controllers
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00:33:04 <Vorpal> And I just bought the sound track for it as well.
00:33:09 <Vorpal> Good night
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01:50:40 <kmc> "system default timezone" is a pretty weird concept in this age of clouds
01:51:55 <kmc> the only clock typically visible on my laptop is from an irssi session running on a VM on a physical machine located in I think Virginia, but I have that VM set to America/Los_Angeles because that's where I live
01:51:57 <Bike> utc-12, obviously, since nobody uses it
01:52:06 <kmc> but I don't update it when traveling, even though I do update my laptop's local tz
01:53:34 <quintopia> kmc: all of the above applies to me as well, except i set my vps to east coast US
01:59:12 <kmc> in this thread: Indiana has 11 IANA time zones
02:00:03 <Bike> i like to think indiana has a graveyard of discarded clocks.
02:00:20 <kmc> http://imgur.com/r/MapPorn/BPeLK is a kind of time zone map I was looking for the other day: deviation between legal time and mean solar time
02:00:23 <kmc> lolchina
02:00:46 <Bike> i'm glad nobody in the west actually uses utc+8 because that seems like it'd be a serious pain
02:01:53 <kmc> solar noon in Kashgar is around 3 PM
02:02:04 <kmc> Bike: what do they use?
02:02:20 <kmc> also Russia uses Moscow time everywhere for some things, like train timetables but not airplanes?
02:02:42 <Bike> i think they just use utc+5
02:02:45 <Bike> unofficially, of course
02:03:27 <kmc> I guess there is no DST so that's good enough
02:04:40 <kmc> Reddit's habit of labeling any image subreddit as "porn" is somewhat distasteful.
02:04:41 <lifthrasiir> let's abolish time zones and use an arbitrary chosen Biel mean time with a fancy commercial-at mark!
02:08:24 <Sgeo> I just took screenshots of a place that doesn't exist anymore
02:08:53 <Sgeo> http://imgur.com/a/ddbUy
02:09:03 <Bike> Sardinia?
02:09:19 <Bike> I don't think this is Sardinia.
02:09:27 <quintopia> wow this map of spectator sport popularity is edifying
02:09:51 <quintopia> like, who would have guessed that basketball be most popular in estonia and lithuania, while latvia prefers hockey?
02:09:58 <kmc> sgeo autonomous oblast
02:10:33 <kmc> I hear 3 on 3 half-court basketball is suuuuuper popular in East Asia
02:10:57 <quintopia> oh man i remember worlds.com
02:10:59 <quintopia> it sucked
02:11:01 <Bike> sgeo took a screenshot of the pale of settlement. tragic stuff.
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02:11:31 <quintopia> kmc: the most popular spectator sport in mongolia: wrestling. mongolians are true men! :D
02:11:37 <kmc> heh
02:12:29 <pikhq> I like how that's essentially a map of how stupid a time zone is.
02:17:41 <quintopia> apparently thailand is the only country where the most popular sport is volleyball
02:17:51 <quintopia> what does that say about the thai
02:18:11 <quintopia> i think it says they have warm weather and nice beaches EVERYWHERE
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02:27:28 <kmc> brb going to thailand
02:28:02 <kmc> where's the sports-map?
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02:34:45 <Phantom__Hoover> <Bike> Sardinia?
02:34:50 <Phantom__Hoover> what happened to sardinia
02:35:02 <Bike> the kingdom.
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02:53:09 <nucular> I should totally build a BytePusher VM
02:55:12 * Sgeo misread that as buy
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04:37:25 <zzo38> MMIX instruction set has a "SWYM" instruction, which from what I can tell may be like a NOP instruction.
04:39:23 * kmc looks
04:39:32 <kmc> "sympathize with your machinery" nice
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04:49:26 <Bike> http://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/1tzbut/i_have_made_the_three_laws_of_logic_for_humans/
04:53:05 <zzo38> Is it necessary to have both LDO and LDOU instructions? It is supposed to be LDO for signed and LDOU for unsigned, but it loads into a 64-bit register there would be no bits to be signed extended anyways. There is no condition register either like in other instruction sets.
04:53:57 <kmc> might just be for consistency with loads of other sizes
04:56:50 <zzo38> Yes, although maybe it should just reserve it in case you need to customize the instruction set
04:57:29 <zzo38> (I don't know what GCC uses, but presumaly the assembler could be modified to work with customized instruction sets)
04:58:20 <Bike> does gcc just call out to gas
04:58:28 <pikhq> It does.
04:58:29 <kmc> yes
04:58:45 <coppro> I want to watch/read a let's play. any recommendations?
04:58:46 <Bike> ok, good. my experience with inbuilt assemblers is doubleplusungood
04:58:56 <Bike> coppro: scotsman in egypt
04:59:04 <Bike> and that one brain age tas
04:59:09 <kmc> although it calls gas with some flags that mean "don't bother checking this too hard because this code is totally legit"
04:59:24 <pikhq> Also, the inline assembly syntax is quite ignorant of the actual assembly code.
04:59:41 <coppro> brain age tas is pretty awesome, but it's a) kind of old and b) not a tas
04:59:46 <coppro> alternatively, I could play metroid ii
04:59:48 <coppro> let's do that
05:00:03 <pikhq> The constraints are all that GCC actually knows about; the assembly itself is taken as just an opaque stringe.
05:00:07 <pikhq> *string
05:00:25 <zzo38> coppro: Watch the let's play game of Super ASCII MZX Town.
05:00:33 <Bike> it's always kind of funny/sad to see the \ns
05:00:42 <zzo38> (Maybe you need a knife)
05:01:27 <kmc> i like it when the "inline assembler" is entirely assembler directives with no instructions
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05:02:36 <Bike> that... happens?
05:03:07 <coppro> yes
05:03:33 <kmc> eg http://mainisusuallyafunction.blogspot.com/2012/01/embedding-gdb-breakpoints-in-c-source.html
05:03:46 <Bike> i should have known it was you, you anarchist
05:03:56 <kmc>
05:04:20 <lifthrasiir> ('A')
05:04:28 <kmc> is that a cat
05:04:56 <lifthrasiir> sorta.
05:05:54 <quintopia> zzo38: do you like the ideas of Chess 2: The Sequel
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05:06:17 <kmc> Bike: you can also use inline asm at the top level of a file: https://gist.github.com/kmcallister/8178050
05:07:01 <Bike> D:
05:09:06 <kmc> oh i don't need that "extern"
05:09:41 <pikhq> https://git.kernel.org/cgit/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/arch/x86/boot/code16gcc.h Or, more usefully.
05:10:08 <kmc> nice
05:10:46 <kmc> http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=%5Easm%5C(
05:13:29 <pikhq> It's a little more impressive if you know exactly what that's *for* in this case.
05:13:56 <pikhq> That tells gas that the code will be executed in real mode, so it should spew out the 32-bit operand prefixes for everything.
05:16:52 <kmc> and the assembly gcc outputs is correct in real mode without gcc doing anything special?
05:18:43 <pikhq> Barely.
05:20:30 <zzo38> quintopia: Not really all that much. It is OK, but there are a lot of better chess variants too
05:20:52 <quintopia> zzo38: which ones do you think are better and why?
05:21:00 <pikhq> Basically, all the 32-bit opcodes are still there in 16-bit modes on x86, they're just spelled differently.
05:21:36 <Bike> anyone got any book recommendations? like, fiction. novels and short story collections.
05:22:05 <coppro> Bike: parahumans.wordpress.com, Anathem, Good Omens
05:22:32 <pikhq> Though you're running in a 16-bit flat address space when doing this, unless you hit unreal mode.
05:22:44 <zzo38> quintopia: The dueling rule is an interesting idea, though.
05:22:56 <quintopia> zzo38: it seemed like your kind of rule
05:23:08 <pikhq> Needless to say, it's a fragile hack.
05:23:31 <kmc> are there any esolangs where a program is a sound file? i see it mentioned on http://esolangs.org/wiki/List_of_ideas
05:23:56 <Bike> there's at least one that uses midi.
05:23:57 <zzo38> The game is not bad, though.
05:24:04 <Bike> fugue, i think
05:24:14 <kmc> i found http://esolangs.org/wiki/Fugue through that, which is a really cool idea
05:24:26 <kmc> and I like the suggestion 'Combine the ideas behind Choon and Fugue into a single language where the programs are music and the output is music, then compose a piece called "Eine kleine Quinemusik".'
05:24:53 <Bike> probably the best brainfuck derivative
05:25:40 <nucular> Snowflake is my current favourite esolang
05:25:49 <nucular> BytePusher is cool to
05:26:46 <kmc> you could split a sound file into blocks of time and compute a spectrum for each one and map those to Brainfuck commands, for example, but I wonder if there's something more interesting you could do with the spectra
05:27:13 <zzo38> I don't know if the midline rule is good as is, though. Maybe it should be farther across the board?
05:27:32 <kmc> perhaps the state of the virtual machine is itself such a spectrum and it combines with the spectrum at each time step in a nonlinear way
05:27:52 <Bike> modulation, one might say
05:27:56 <kmc> that makes it vaguely quantum-y
05:31:50 <kmc> brb building a computer out of guitar pedals and tape loop delay boxes
05:32:26 <Bike> well that's like puredata. just not sound itself.
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06:12:37 <Edwardz> If you have a general idea for a language, how do you check to make sure one similar doesn't exist?
06:21:53 <nooodl> explaining it in here might work
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08:56:52 <mroman> There's no need to check that :)
08:57:05 <mroman> Otherwise there wouldn't be soooo freaking many brainfuck derivatives
08:57:44 <coppro> anyone here familiar with http://www.idris-lang.org/ ?
09:02:14 <mroman> Are you sure that's not haskell with a different name?
09:02:27 <coppro> no
09:02:35 <coppro> but given that it has dependent types
09:02:38 <coppro> it is probably not haskell
09:03:14 <coppro> that's just a hunch
09:03:33 <mroman> I can't see any syntax differences except that :: is :
09:03:35 <mroman> and : is ::
09:04:15 <mroman> but yeah. It's not haskell
09:11:11 <coppro> mroman: see agda
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09:47:05 <Taneb> Today's Gunnerkrigg Court is cute
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10:08:03 <mroman> Yeah.... I don't even know what dependent types are
10:09:02 <coppro> mroman: when the type of something can depend on values
10:09:05 <mroman> other than the lamens description of it
10:09:11 <mroman> that it depends on an input value, yes
10:09:28 <coppro> yeah
10:09:30 <mroman> *laymen's
10:09:54 <coppro> there are a few things that make them interesting from a language design perspective
10:09:57 <mroman> which would suggest that the type is only known at runtime...
10:10:01 <coppro> no
10:10:23 <coppro> well, the final type is not known until runtime
10:10:40 <coppro> unless you do various analyses at compile time
10:10:40 <mroman> Given that the type is String if its input is True otherwise its a Float
10:10:50 <coppro> but in practice, you have to make these analyses
10:10:59 <mroman> then typeof(foo (isSomeCrazyTheoryTrue)) is going to be difficult to tell at compile time
10:11:07 <coppro> because dependent types are undecideable in general
10:11:40 <coppro> yes
10:11:47 <coppro> that's what makes them interesting from a language design standpoint
10:13:01 <mroman> so
10:13:09 <mroman> languages with dynamic types
10:13:21 <mroman> there is no *real* difference to dependent types?
10:13:37 <mroman> well
10:13:47 <mroman> unless you don't account for that they may depend on hidden state
10:14:12 <mroman> but esentially dynamic types all depend on some value
10:18:01 <coppro> technically most dynamically typed languages have dependent types
10:18:16 <coppro> but that's so very different from statically-checked dependent types
10:18:33 <coppro> when you hear "dependently-typed language" it almost exclusively means staticallly checked
10:21:06 <mroman> which suggests that they are not turing complete
10:21:57 <mroman> which doesn't really matter for what they are being used for apparentely
10:22:40 <coppro> they are undecideable
10:23:44 <mroman> because there is at least one program that can't be typechecked
10:23:58 <coppro> if you like to gloss over a bunch of important definitions and details, they're turing complete
10:31:32 <mroman> Now I'm just angry because my school has absolutely nothing on that topic to teach
10:32:14 <mroman> "Introduction to proof assistants" would be an very interesting course
10:32:59 <coppro> it's a fairly specialized field
10:36:30 <oklopol> in the it department in turku, you don't learn what a turing machine is and probably you don't learn what first-class functions are either
10:36:32 <oerjan> mroman: turing completeness doesn't require every program in your language to be typechecked. it just requires it to be enough programs that can be, to emulate any turing machine.
10:37:31 <oklopol> (mainly because the math department teaches that stuff probably, but still it's really sad)
10:37:53 <oklopol> and luckily you can already do that without the dependent types
10:38:30 <coppro> see: C++
10:41:56 <mroman> you don't learn what first-class functions are here neither
10:42:09 <mroman> you don't even learn about functional programming languages
10:42:24 <mroman> however
10:42:53 <mroman> what they do is make a 1500 slides long presentation about the .NET framework and then test that ;)
10:44:23 <oklopol> there's a course called declarative programming where you learn some scheme-like language (like 100 ways to print fibonacci type of stuff)
10:44:54 <oklopol> but almost no one takes that because you just read the book and take the exam
10:45:46 <oklopol> and a couple of other decent courses, but most are 1500 slides about java
10:46:39 <oklopol> there was one course about "ui techniques" where the lecturer basically went over the swing or whatever that one java library is called
10:46:44 <oklopol> erm
10:46:52 <oklopol> meant to say went over the swing documentation
10:46:59 <mroman> yeah
10:47:01 <oklopol> like all of it (or at least enough to fill the course)
10:47:02 <mroman> I hate those courses
10:47:30 <mroman> I don't pay them money to treat me like I'm stupid and can't read a library documentation
10:47:55 <oklopol> he kept saying things like "of course the details of how java does this don't matter so much, only the general idea"
10:47:57 <mroman> and I don't pay them money to force me to memorize a library documentation
10:48:05 <Taneb> mroman, my uni has a correctness by construction module but that's about as close as it gets
10:48:10 <mroman> but they do it anyway.
10:48:10 <oklopol> THEN WHY DID YOU GO OVER _ALL_ THE DETAILS?
10:48:19 <Taneb> And that's in the third year
10:48:41 <Taneb> (to proof assistants)
10:48:59 <Taneb> (functional programming is... slightly more common, one of my lecturers was an author of the Haskell report)
10:49:08 <oklopol> i thought you meant that's as close as it gets to reading java documentation.
10:49:18 <oklopol> "otherwise we do decent stuff"
10:50:07 <Taneb> oklopol, I am not very good at logreading, I got chronologically displaced
10:50:13 <oerjan> `unidecode Ⓐ
10:50:18 <HackEgo> ​[U+24B6 CIRCLED LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A]
10:50:27 <oklopol> `unidecode ö
10:50:29 <HackEgo> ​[U+00F6 LATIN SMALL LETTER O WITH DIAERESIS]
10:50:52 <oklopol> diaeresis sounds painful
10:51:15 <lifthrasiir> `unidecode 뷁
10:51:17 <HackEgo> ​[U+BDC1 HANGUL SYLLABLE BWELG]
10:51:45 <lifthrasiir> `unidecode 長
10:51:46 <HackEgo> ​[U+9577 CJK UNIFIED IDEOGRAPH-9577]
10:51:56 <lifthrasiir> which is superficially similar to 튽
10:52:38 <Taneb> `unidecode 튽
10:52:39 <HackEgo> ​[U+D2BD HANGUL SYLLABLE TEUNJ]
10:53:21 <oklopol> is it pronounced teunj
10:53:36 <Taneb> 튽arine
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10:58:15 <Taneb> Apparently, C# was designed to be safe, fast, and easy
10:58:33 <mroman> lifthrasiir: only to the untrained eye
10:59:08 <mroman> or with a poor or small font
11:00:45 <lifthrasiir> oklopol: it's pronounced teun ("eu" being a vowel similar to "u" here), "j" is there for explaining various side effects with the following syllable
11:05:20 <oklopol> i knew this korean guy once
11:05:38 <oklopol> but i don't know any korean
11:08:30 <oklopol> 뷁 seems uncharacteristic
11:08:53 <oklopol> in the sense that there are no circles or rectangels
11:08:56 <oklopol> rectangles
11:09:11 <oklopol> well a very small rectangle i guess but it's hidden
11:09:38 <mroman> :)
11:09:53 <oklopol> "There are seven verb paradigms or speech levels in Korean, and each level has its own unique set of verb endings which are used to indicate the level of formality of a situation."
11:10:05 <oklopol> seems a bit excessive
11:10:16 <lifthrasiir> seven paradigms and thousands of possible postpositions/suffixes.
11:10:32 <lifthrasiir> freakin hard for even Koreans.
11:14:30 <oklopol> i knew the korean guy because i was learning japanese and he was learning finnish, one time i asked him something like "korean has some type of honorifics too" (like japanese)
11:15:08 <oklopol> and he was like lol you call these honorifics
11:15:27 <oklopol> (referring to the japanese ones)
11:15:41 <oklopol> sorry i'm telling this story badly because i'm supposed to be downloading something for my gf.
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11:20:21 <oklopol> lifthrasiir: do you use all of them
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11:24:18 <mroman> oh
11:24:20 <lifthrasiir> oklopol: do you really think that I can count all of them? :x
11:24:28 <mroman> you learnt japanese?
11:24:41 <lifthrasiir> I have some knowledge of Japanese but not much.
11:24:48 <mroman> Me too
11:24:52 <mroman> watashi mo :)
11:25:15 <oklopol> lifthrasiir: just mean the 7 paradigms
11:25:41 <mroman> sono ringo wo tabetai noni tabemasen <- that's about what I know :)
11:25:42 <oklopol> do you like have, for each paradigm, a couple of people you use it with
11:25:58 <lifthrasiir> oklopol: ah, I think not, there are some paradigms that have been obsoleted so far.
11:26:09 <oklopol> i don't eat that apple because i want to eat it?
11:26:11 <lifthrasiir> and I don't agree on the whole concept of seven paradigms at all
11:26:36 <oklopol> okay
11:26:38 <lifthrasiir> oklopol: maybe "I want to eat that apple but can't"
11:26:57 <lifthrasiir> afk
11:27:12 <oklopol> i can't quite recall what noni means
11:27:51 <oklopol> even though maybe
11:28:12 <oklopol> not quite the same as because i guess
11:29:58 <oklopol> watashi wa sukoshi nihongo o benkyousurukoto ga arimasu
11:30:17 * oklopol generates a random list of words
11:35:10 * oerjan wonders where sukoshi is these days
11:36:09 <oerjan> `seen sukoshi ever
11:36:40 <HackEgo> No output.
11:37:01 <oerjan> `seen sukoshi ever
11:37:32 <HackEgo> No output.
11:37:43 <oerjan> `pastelogs sukoshi
11:37:55 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/paste/paste.26340
11:38:49 <oerjan> `seen ... ever doesn't work too well when it's _really_ been a long time :(
11:40:31 <oerjan> hm here website is still running and looks updated.
11:40:34 <oerjan> *her
11:40:52 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
11:42:58 <lifthrasiir> back (temporarily)
11:44:01 <lifthrasiir> oklopol: the reason that I don't buy seven paradigms is simple, it does not fit to the current usage at all
11:45:16 <lifthrasiir> the "paradigms" are in fact a combination of T-V distinction (formality) and honorifics in my opinion
11:46:48 <lifthrasiir> there are no clean distinction and hierarchy among numerous honorifics (i.e. only partial ordering exists)
11:47:42 <lifthrasiir> and so-called paradigms are merely a set of related honorifics that are used altogether (but sometimes not)
11:50:06 <lifthrasiir> the current usage is much more like a simple distinction between informal and formal context, with contextual honorifics
11:51:19 <oklopol> ok
11:52:07 <Slereah> T-V meaning tensor-vector, I assume
11:52:16 <Slereah> Much like the old weak interaction theory
11:52:44 <oklopol> yes
11:53:01 <oerjan> since you're french i assume you're joking.
11:53:16 <oerjan> wait
11:53:18 <Slereah> Hon hon hon
11:53:21 <oerjan> you're obviously joking.
11:53:35 <oerjan> but since you're french i assume you also know the real meaning.
11:54:04 <Slereah> Oh wait
11:54:09 <Slereah> Is that "tu-vous"
11:54:29 <oerjan> so i assumed.
11:54:40 <Slereah> (We don't actually use that word)
11:57:27 <oklopol> we still have a bit of a tv in finnish, but we're trying our best to get rid of it
11:58:35 <Slereah> I assume you mean transvestite
11:59:39 <oklopol> yes
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12:47:31 <b_jonas> or television
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13:10:10 <mroman> or Turnverein
13:10:21 <mauke> tuvalu
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14:04:31 <quintopia> bon matily
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14:05:17 <boily> quintohayō.
14:07:11 <quintopia> bon metasepiatin
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14:30:30 <boily> ~metar KATL
14:30:31 <metasepia> KATL 301352Z 31007KT 9SM FEW044 SCT200 BKN250 06/04 A3013 RMK AO2 SLP208 VIRGA SW T00560044
14:30:35 <boily> ~metar CYQB
14:30:36 <metasepia> CYQB 301400Z 25021G27KT 20SM BLSN FEW025 FEW045 M14/M18 A2980 RMK SC1SC2 SC TR PRESRR SLP097
14:46:48 <mroman> I just tried to estimate how many pages I'd need to use to write all my knowledge down :)
14:47:24 <mroman> and then again
14:47:31 <mroman> how many pages would the total human knowledge fill
14:47:38 <mroman> including deduplication of course
14:47:43 <mroman> which is gonna be hard to estimate
14:48:33 <fizzie> ~metar EFHK
14:48:33 <metasepia> EFHK 301420Z 25012KT 9999 FEW011 BKN013 03/01 Q1010 NOSIG
14:48:40 <fizzie> It's like the strangest weather, it's a flat +3 .. +5 °C every day, night and day.
14:48:45 <mroman> ~metar Zurich
14:48:46 <metasepia> --- Station not found!
14:57:33 <boily> ~metar LSZH
14:57:34 <metasepia> LSZH 301450Z 35003KT 300V020 9000 SCT013 SCT018 03/M00 Q1025 NOSIG
15:14:23 <FireFly> ~metar ESSA
15:14:24 <metasepia> ESSA 301450Z 23007KT CAVOK 01/M01 Q1015 R01L/29//95 R08/29//95 R01R/750166 NOSIG
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15:36:01 <boily> I wonder how squirrels can survive outside in Canadian winters...
15:36:22 <olsner> maybe they hibernate?
15:39:14 <boily> if they hibernated that'd make more sense than running arround on electric lines all winter long.
15:39:43 <boily> (apart from the bizareness of the situation, it's a nice sight to gaze upon when trying to debug badly engineered code.)
15:39:59 <olsner> electric lines? maybe they discovered electric heating
15:40:29 <boily> power lines, not electric. (my French is slipping again... «fils électriques».)
15:40:42 <olsner> and are you already back at work?
15:40:44 <olsner> why?
15:41:05 <boily> I worked last week, and I'm working this week, but I'm still at my parents'.
15:52:34 <fizzie> Maybe they steal energy from the power lines by induction?
16:00:08 <boily> that would explain their running. a magnetic squirrel moving relatively to an EM field would produce current. and because squirrel have a non-null resistance (I hope squirrels aren't superconductors), they heat.
16:00:53 <olsner> research continues on squirrel-temperature super conductors
16:08:35 <boily> what is the average surface area of a transverse squirrel cross-section?
16:09:12 <olsner> one SQSq )
16:09:36 <olsner> well, that would've been something else if backspace was not so close to enter
16:09:46 <boily> (“A sciurinæ or a xerinæ?“ “I don't know. Ayeeeeeeeee!”)
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17:17:23 <boily> meanwhile, herobrine confirmed removed in 1.8.
17:20:29 <olsner> fungot: you hate herobrine, right?
17:20:30 <fungot> olsner: but _you_ said that any sufficiently complicated common lisp or scheme. shivers is hiding in his lair at ga tech and lay siege upon olin's office in order to
17:20:43 <olsner> fungot: I said no such thing
17:20:44 <fungot> olsner: well, i already have my right hand and had to check that
17:21:32 <boily> olsner: fungot checked. you said it.
17:21:33 <fungot> boily: all whitespace between the sexpr delimiters remains untouched. would *you* believe a claim the it was a major program, mis management information systems.
17:22:37 <olsner> hmm, mis management information systems, isn't that what you're working with?
17:23:17 <boily> I deny any implication I'm misinformating for money.
17:23:24 <shachaf> fungot: do you swear or affirm that olsner said it
17:23:24 <fungot> shachaf: s k and fnord? to avoid cluttering the namespace with names like head tail.
17:25:52 <shachaf> fungot: s k
17:25:52 <fungot> shachaf: i was confused again. ' huh what did that mean? i know some of those
17:26:20 <shachaf> fungot: you gotta know them all
17:26:20 <fungot> shachaf: when will you find out how many bytes a jmp call would take. no other reason than the fact that people can watch the original lectures
17:26:51 <boily> fungot: from whom?
17:26:51 <fungot> boily: so the until-test will change their minds
17:27:31 <shachaf> fungot: until (their minds are changed) { show them the original lectures }?
17:27:32 <fungot> shachaf: only things in that directory. this way of conditional jump. no saving of the stack. why make every implementation keep waaaaay more functionality that is found in macosx?
17:27:36 <boily> as the Master said to the Pupil: “you will understand the Namespace Original Lectures when you Mind will have been Changed byt the Until-Test.”
17:28:05 <shachaf> boily: that is the Way of the Conditional Jump
17:28:46 <shachaf> fungot is wise
17:28:46 <fungot> shachaf: srfi-18 to be specific
17:29:01 <shachaf> Multithreading support
17:30:32 <fizzie> Concurrent fungots.
17:30:32 <fungot> fizzie: mostly using scheme in your kernel: http://savannah.nongnu.org/ projects/ fnord/ examples/ fnord that?
17:30:41 <fizzie> Yeah, that sounds like the way to go.
17:30:59 <shachaf> Concurrent fizzies.
17:31:17 <shachaf> Perhaps fungot *is* fizzie.
17:31:17 <fungot> shachaf: not an issue here.)" fnord norvig is a traitor!!
17:32:10 <fizzie> Today I got a coin with my face on it. (There was a show about coins at the local "science center", and it included this machine where you could take a photo and have a machine use lasers to burn it on a coin.)
17:32:14 <fizzie> Sadly, I don't think it works as money anywhere.
17:32:31 <shachaf> i would take it
17:33:23 <shachaf> in fact i would take it at face value
17:34:18 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg it looks like that
17:34:34 <shachaf> fizziecoin
17:34:43 <shachaf> he latest in cryptocurrency
17:34:46 <shachaf> t
17:34:49 <fizzie> (I forgot to photograph the other side, but it just has the http://heureka.fi/ logo on it.)
17:35:25 <shachaf> OK, that looks like the face value is 2013 fizzies.
17:35:35 <shachaf> Not sure if I can afford that.
17:35:48 <fizzie> The cost of postage would be great.
17:37:16 <shachaf> fungot: can i have a coin with YOUR face on it
17:37:17 <fungot> shachaf: all bf-complete with upper memory bound 40" at
17:37:28 <fizzie> Quite a coin.
17:37:29 <shachaf> fungot: can i have a hug with your face on it :'(
17:37:30 <fungot> shachaf: am i the only one i've been toying around with beamer, but i really like are the use of an interface. what point are you trying to do
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18:27:58 <kmc> https://twitter.com/search?q=smell%20colon
18:28:29 <boily> whyyyyyyyyy do people /join then immediately /part... I need my daily fix of `relcomming!
18:28:44 <olsner> `relcome boily
18:28:47 <HackEgo> boily: Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)
18:30:17 * boily grins, relaxes, slumps in his chair like a junkie.
18:30:44 <fizzie> Misread "grinds". Made that sound slightly suspicious.
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18:31:00 <boily> fizzie: you gutterminded fiend.
18:31:11 <fizzie> Like, I don't know what got ground there.
18:31:32 <Bike> geez fizzie, it was just a perfectly innocent #drugz reference
18:32:03 <olsner> #drugz references are never innocent
18:33:20 <kmc> re "grinds" https://twitter.com/unhush/status/416404349527396352
18:33:36 <boily> every time someone referes to #drugz, one of the FSM's noodles gets boiled past al dente.
18:34:38 <boily> (the pastafarian equivalent to one tanathokitten.)
18:35:07 <Bike> rugged
18:39:17 <kmc> ah "al dente"
18:41:28 <kmc> omg 30C3 has a pneumatic mail system with 1.4 km of tubes
18:41:32 <kmc> so wish I had gone
18:41:43 <kmc> screw your christmas mom and dad, I'm going to party with a bunch of German hackers
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18:42:39 <Bike> rip kmc, partied too hard
18:45:57 <boily> dibs on every maple-y possession of kmc!
18:46:38 <shachaf> hi kmc
18:51:35 <boily> shachaf: he's dead. you can have anything else if you want.
18:52:03 <shachaf> can i have his soul
18:53:11 <boily> please yourself.
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19:06:35 <kmc> hichaf
19:06:50 <kmc> torrent stalled at 99.9% WHYYYYY
19:07:02 <kmc> sinners in the hands of an angry god
19:07:17 <Bike> ur like a spider over the flame
19:09:59 <kmc> a snail crawling along the edge of a straight razor
19:10:25 <Bike> i... don't remember that part
19:10:36 <Bike> ow >_<
19:11:38 <boily> ur like a babylonian.
19:14:46 <shachaf> simmer in the hands of an angry god for 30 minutes, then serve immediately
19:16:06 <Bike> http://boscoh.com/protein/a-sign-a-flipped-structure-and-a-scientific-flameout-of-epic-proportions.html remember to test your code, friends
19:16:17 <boily> summer in the hands of an angry god for 3 months, then season accordingly.
19:18:22 <olsner> punny
19:18:34 <kmc> :D
19:19:02 <kmc> shachaf: lift your skinny fists like antennas to heaven
19:21:13 <shachaf> a 2000 double album released by the Canadian post-rock group Godspeed You! Black Emperor.
19:21:26 <kmc> indeed
19:21:49 <kmc> Montrealer post-rock group, even
19:22:19 <shachaf> is a post-rock a rock that you attach a message to and throw through someone's window
19:22:20 <Bike> double?
19:22:39 <Bike> no, that's rock-post. a post-rock is a rock you use to hammer posts into the ground.
19:22:42 <boily> shachaf: a post-rock is the analog version of an authenticating HMAC.
19:22:58 <boily> Bike: double means they use key strengthening.
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19:26:00 <boily> hezzo38. quick! grab everything you want from kmc!
19:26:45 <kmc> i'm not dead yet
19:27:11 <boily> nonsense.
19:29:18 <zzo38> I don't think there is something I wanted to grab from kmc, as far as I know.
19:30:09 <Bike> i call his devastating good looks and saving accounts
19:30:22 <kmc> thanks bike
19:30:40 <zzo38> In some MUD other people can grab everything they want from me when I am dead, but that's only for me, not if other people are dead.
19:31:05 <kmc> zzo38: organ donor
19:31:43 <zzo38> kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time.
19:31:47 <Bike> good song
19:32:02 <kmc> `addquote <zzo38> kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time.
19:32:06 <HackEgo> 1151) <zzo38> kmc: I don't need any of your organ at this time.
19:32:12 <Bike> hm, would getting kmc's thalamus too be too greedy
19:32:25 <kmc> i,i I don't need any of your oerjan at this time
19:32:50 <boily> “your oerjan”?
19:32:58 <Bike> how many oerjan do you have zzo38
19:33:18 <zzo38> Bike: Nothing.
19:33:58 <Bike> response invalid
19:35:04 <boily> :t Oerjan
19:35:04 <lambdabot> Not in scope: data constructor `Oerjan'
19:35:58 <zzo38> I can't take it with you with the IRC anyways, but that is OK because it isn't necessary anyways. Therefore, it is OK that I don't think there is something I wanted to grab from kmc, as far as I know.
19:36:21 <Bike> :t Just
19:36:22 <lambdabot> a -> Maybe a
19:37:07 <shachaf> kmc: organ donor more like organ doner
19:38:35 <kmc> döner
19:39:04 <shachaf> yes, that
19:39:27 <oklopol> yummy
19:40:28 <shachaf> @let just :: a -> Maybe a; just _ = Nothing
19:40:29 <lambdabot> Defined.
19:49:16 <Bike> :t Just just
19:49:17 <lambdabot> Maybe (a -> Maybe a)
19:49:41 <shachaf> kmc: did you know ¬¬LEM is unprovable constructively
19:49:53 <kmc> no
19:49:58 <kmc> how do you prove that
19:50:25 <shachaf> not sure
19:50:27 <mauke> I,I nstructive coproof
19:50:50 <shachaf> the distinction is between ¬¬(forall a. a + ¬a) and forall a. ¬¬(a + ¬a)
19:52:49 <zzo38> I would though, think that (Cont r (Either a (a -> Cont r b))); you have to apply the double-negative transform (or continuation passing transform) to *both* sides, isn't it?
19:56:08 <mauke> <ttk> I've been using turned-E as shorthand for "exists" since college, and in recent years I've been using turned-K for "known". The former is a standard logical convention, but I pulled the latter out of my ass. Is there a conventional symbol for "known"?
19:57:06 <zzo38> What logic will use a symbol for "known", anyways?
19:58:36 <mauke> <ttk> it comes up in epistemological analysis, which comes up often in distributed systems
19:58:57 <mauke> <f0rk> the logic where you pull something out of your ass and assert it
19:59:12 <mauke> <ChoHag> f0rk: That comes up in business analysis.
19:59:31 <mauke> <ttk> w00t .. a geek in another channel pointed me at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemic_logic#Syntax
20:01:40 <boily> mauke: are you implying there are other chännels out there as geeky as us?
20:02:01 <Bike> i have never eaten a chicken head
20:02:35 <boily> ...
20:02:38 <boily> ... wut?
20:02:48 <mauke> <f0rk> I've never eaten a chicken head either
20:02:58 <Bike> thanks for your support f0rk
20:03:34 <mauke> <ChoHag> You've never eaten a mcnugget?
20:03:49 <Bike> god no
20:03:51 <Bike> boily: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geek_show
20:04:54 <kmc> shachaf: interesting
20:05:05 <boily> Bike: indeed.
20:05:17 <kmc> mmmmmmodal logic
20:06:04 <mauke> boily: irc.perl.org/#perl
20:06:25 <boily> nah. not gonna join. #perl people make me feel... squeamish.
20:06:36 <boily> Bike: I think I never ate a chicken head. probably.
20:06:43 <Taneb> > (1 - x) ^ 3
20:06:44 <lambdabot> (1 - x) * (1 - x) * (1 - x)
20:06:49 <Taneb> Thank you
20:06:55 <Taneb> *sigh*
20:07:03 <Taneb> I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion
20:07:05 <kmc> what did #perl people do
20:07:13 <mauke> also, which #perl
20:07:14 <kmc> `addquote <Taneb> I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion
20:07:18 <HackEgo> 1152) <Taneb> I am NOT in the mood for binomial expansion
20:07:25 <mauke> because the one on irc.perl.org is more like #perl-blah
20:07:27 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:07:35 <Taneb> 1 - 3x + 3x^2 - x^3, right?
20:07:51 <boily> mauke: scratch the hash. perl people in general weird me.
20:08:09 <mauke> I'm a perl people
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20:08:42 * oerjan spots (1 - x)^3 expanded
20:08:48 <Bike> Taneb: shouldbe
20:09:13 <mauke> @check \x -> 1 - 3*x + 3*x^2 - x^3 == (1 - x)^3
20:09:14 <lambdabot> +++ OK, passed 100 tests.
20:09:23 <Bike> the saddest algebra
20:09:39 <Taneb> :)
20:09:50 <Taneb> Of course, my use for this is virtually non-existent
20:10:05 <Taneb> I'm trying to derive a list 2-zipper
20:10:11 <oerjan> i guess recognizing a few levels of pascal's triangle is a good math skill
20:10:29 <Taneb> oerjan, I can, but not at this time of the day
20:11:28 <Taneb> Which is why I missed something obvious four lines of working earlier
20:11:37 <boily> mauke: have you read this year's tasty blogpost in 24 days of hackage?
20:11:52 <mauke> boily: no
20:12:54 <olsner>
20:13:02 <mauke> ω̈
20:14:00 <boily> ȍ.
20:14:04 <Taneb> Hmm, it still feels like this carries too much information
20:14:12 <boily> mauke: http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/posts/2013-12-03-24-days-of-hackage-tasty.html, and also http://ocharles.org.uk/blog/guest-posts/2013-12-09-24-days-of-hackage-sbv.html
20:14:14 <mauke>
20:14:35 <boily> mauke: also, https://github.com/pfcuttle/twentyfour-2013 (that one needs to be updated to cover the latest posts...)
20:14:53 <boily> mauke: glad to see you fully embrace this chännel's diæresisity :D
20:15:23 <mauke> I also support `àwesome quoteś´
20:15:59 <shachaf> `ẁoẃ´
20:16:00 <HackEgo> ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ẁoẃ´: not found
20:16:35 <boily> mauke: I also mapped some keys on my ░▒▓█layout█▓░ to get fancy blocks, but I don't use them often.
20:16:38 <Taneb> Best I can do manually is ListZipper2 = LZ2 a (Maybe (a, [a])) [a] [a]
20:17:34 <shachaf> Taneb: whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa
20:17:38 <shachaf> what are you trying to do here
20:18:36 <mauke> boily: meh, tasty looks overcomplicated
20:18:42 <Taneb> shachaf, be less curry infested
20:18:59 <Taneb> Also oh god that is wrong
20:19:06 <boily> mauke: but I understand it! (fsvo understanding.)
20:19:09 <Taneb> I should have trusted my maths
20:19:15 <mauke> boily: I'd rather have Test::More
20:19:53 <boily> Taneb: maybe you should trust oerjan.
20:19:59 <boily> mauke: humbug.
20:20:05 <mauke> bumhug
20:20:38 <oerjan> `? fizzie
20:20:40 <HackEgo> fizzie is not fnord with a monad.
20:21:18 <fizzie> I learned that from fungot, unsurprisingly.
20:21:18 <fungot> fizzie: it's mine, and hope we both post to the wiki
20:21:20 <boily> (previously, fizzie was also the creator of minecraft.)
20:21:29 <oerjan> `learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg
20:21:34 <HackEgo> I knew that.
20:21:40 <Taneb> ...I am ssh'ing to a server where I have nano open which I am using to do differentiation
20:21:44 <Slereah> Is that a bitcoin
20:21:48 <fizzie> oerjan: Do you think it looks kingly?
20:21:57 <boily> oh fungot. now I'm stuck to insert pictures into the PDF.
20:21:58 <fungot> boily: they implement dynamic-wind call/ cc?
20:22:07 <fizzie> oerjan: (Also I guess only king for the rest of 2013.)
20:22:10 <boily> fungot: no. it's a stack-based language.
20:22:10 <fungot> boily: the scheme markup/ document preparation system out there, and it would be better
20:22:13 <oerjan> fizzie: you don't get more royal around here
20:22:26 <fizzie> Slereah: It's a fizziecoin, I hear they're the latest craze.
20:22:42 <boily> wow. much value. such PDF. very Finland!
20:22:45 <shachaf> oerjan: can i be king of #esoteric 2014
20:22:47 <shachaf> or president
20:22:51 <shachaf> or tiger in chief
20:22:52 <Slereah> I prefer dogecoins
20:22:53 <shachaf> anything
20:22:59 <boily> can I have voice?
20:23:05 -!- coppro has quit (Quit: Changing server).
20:23:06 <shachaf> can i have hug
20:23:10 <Bike> nt sure you're qualified to be tiger in chief
20:23:49 <shachaf> Bike: uh p. sure i am
20:23:53 -!- coppro_ has joined.
20:24:22 -!- coppro_ has changed nick to coppro.
20:24:23 <Bike> please provide a CV listing your previous chieftanisms
20:24:42 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +v boily.
20:24:44 <boily> also, to examples of zebrafish genetic modifications.
20:24:52 <boily> `thanks oerjan
20:24:53 <HackEgo> Thanks, oerjan. Thoerjan.
20:25:18 <boily> I AM THE (HOW DO I INSERT FIGURES AGAIN?) VOICE!
20:25:22 <oerjan> `fetch https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg
20:25:24 <mauke> "It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to which Baghdad could be given as a parameter." --Nathaniel Borenstein
20:25:27 <HackEgo> 2013-12-30 20:25:26 URL:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20131230-coin.jpg [230556/230556] -> "20131230-coin.jpg" [1]
20:25:52 <shachaf> Bike: i am cuddly like a tiger and also soft and have fur and stripes
20:25:57 <shachaf> and there are no other tigers in here
20:25:59 <oerjan> `run mv 20131230-coin.jpg src/fizziecoin.jpg
20:26:03 <HackEgo> No output.
20:26:12 <oerjan> `url src/fizziecoin.jpg
20:26:14 <HackEgo> http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
20:26:57 <oerjan> `learn fizzie is not fnord with a monad but the king of #esoteric, see http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/index.cgi/raw-file/tip/src/fizziecoin.jpg
20:27:02 <HackEgo> I knew that.
20:27:12 <Taneb> `? people who taneb is not
20:27:14 <HackEgo> elliott, a rabbi, Mark Zuckerberg, James Bond
20:27:32 <Taneb> Hmm
20:27:38 <Taneb> fizzie is not on that list
20:27:43 <Taneb> Therefore I am fizzie
20:27:53 <Taneb> Therefore I am not winning... :(
20:29:22 <oerjan> <boily> oh fungot. now I'm stuck to insert pictures into the PDF. <-- whoops. well i'm sure it's possible somehow.
20:29:22 <fungot> oerjan: newtype location location fnord:: double... line though.
20:29:47 <FireFly> good newtype
20:30:48 <olsner> such fungot
20:30:49 <fungot> olsner: it's a fnord gate, copy the stack into somewhere else in your family?
20:31:38 <olsner> under the overpass, over the undertow, through the fnord gate, copy the stack and receive fungot
20:31:38 <fungot> olsner: does someone from peoria have a shorter version with just cons* macros.
20:31:53 <zzo38> I have some more idea too, about some kind of computer game based on ideas in another dream I have had previously
20:32:38 <oerjan> i am currently having problems distinguishing zzo38 and fungot.
20:32:38 <fungot> oerjan: gauche " hello, world!" get into there? iteration is where it's at.
20:32:58 <zzo38> oerjan: Then turn on the display of the sender of each message.
20:34:05 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
20:34:12 <boily> oerjan: the PDF, it is updated.
20:34:16 <oerjan> wat
20:34:25 <boily> I added the fizziecoin to it.
20:34:29 <oerjan> yay
20:35:42 <fizzie> If I knew it was going to end up in print, I'd've uploaded a higher-resolution version.
20:35:48 <Bike> is there a website that emulated mosaic or netscape or something so i can see old renders of modern webistes to amuse myself
20:36:08 <shachaf> get real mosaic
20:36:23 <Bike> see, that sounds suspiciously like work.
20:36:44 <oerjan> <kmc> https://twitter.com/search?q=smell%20colon <-- you know, i think i'll pass.
20:36:50 <boily> I need to find a publisher who can get me the PDF printed on A5 paper...
20:37:01 <kmc> oerjan: it's way funnier than you think
20:37:15 <boily> kmc: I'll admit it took me a few tweets to understand what was going on.
20:37:51 <oerjan> kmc: will my mind and remaining faith in humanity survive visiting it?
20:37:59 <kmc> unclear
20:38:08 <shachaf> oerjan: wait you still have some left
20:38:36 * boily lends some of his own sanity over to oerjan
20:39:42 * oerjan now is somehow thoroughly convinced of his sanity despite all the evidence
20:45:42 * oerjan thinks his sanity survived that link, in a hypothetical manner
20:45:51 <boily> The Convinsanity Brand®! The best OTC sanity on the market! For all your sanity troubles, demand Convinsanity!
20:46:26 <boily> (side effects may include delusions, sightings of moose, alopecia, and a hunger for tofu. If you are a pregnant marmoset, do not take Convinsanity.)
20:46:58 <oerjan> ~duck alopecia
20:46:59 <metasepia> Alopecia (from Classical Greek
20:47:08 <oerjan> thank you, metasepia.
20:47:14 <oerjan> @wn alopecia
20:47:15 <lambdabot> *** "alopecia" wn "WordNet (r) 3.0 (2006)"
20:47:16 <lambdabot> alopecia
20:47:16 <lambdabot> n 1: loss of hair (especially on the head) or loss of wool or
20:47:17 <lambdabot> feathers; in humans it can result from heredity or hormonal
20:47:21 <lambdabot> imbalance or certain diseases or drugs and treatments
20:47:23 <lambdabot> (chemotherapy for cancer)
20:48:16 * oerjan gives boily's sanity back, after spraying it with colon
20:49:16 <boily> fizzie: your bot has contaminated and corrupted mine. he hasn't balanced his parenthesises!
20:49:45 <boily> speaking of moose, I forgot my orange one on my desk back in Montréal.
20:49:46 <mauke> preflex: calc (1 + 2
20:49:47 <preflex> 3
20:49:55 <mauke> who needs balanced parens anyway
20:49:59 <oerjan> boily: you did not say removing your sanity again would cause instant near-fatal laughter
20:50:02 <boily> oh, a new bot!
20:50:34 <boily> oerjan: I'm listening to an experimental album. it is forbidden by law to laugh during listening to experimental music.
20:50:42 <boily> preflex: botsnack
20:50:42 <preflex> yum
20:50:47 <copumpkin> preflex: 2st
20:50:48 <copumpkin> preflex: 2st 4
20:50:48 <copumpkin> :(
20:50:57 <mauke> preflex: 6st 4
20:50:58 <preflex> 4th
20:51:09 <boily> preflex: poke
20:51:22 <boily> preflex: hello
20:51:23 -!- ais523 has left ("<fungot> fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api").
20:51:30 <boily> hm. not very talkative, eh?
20:51:32 <copumpkin> oh there we go
20:51:32 <copumpkin> preflex: 6st 5
20:51:33 <preflex> 5th
20:51:35 <mauke> its default action is silence
20:51:36 <copumpkin> preflex doesn't like me :(
20:51:46 <boily> preflex: calc head [1, 2, 3]
20:51:46 <preflex> Lexical error
20:51:57 <boily> preflex: calc [2] .* [3]
20:51:57 <preflex> Lexical error
20:52:06 <boily> preflex: calc 1i
20:52:06 <preflex> Lexical error
20:52:23 <oerjan> preflex: calc (head [1, 2, 3]
20:52:24 <preflex> Lexical error
20:52:33 <mauke> preflex: calc 1 2 3 + *
20:52:33 <preflex> 7
20:53:43 <oerjan> preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ^ ^ ^
20:53:43 <preflex> inf
20:54:08 <oerjan> WEAK
20:54:30 <mauke> exercise: explain why the expression above results in 7
20:54:32 <boily> ~eval 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2
20:54:34 <metasepia> Error (1):
20:54:39 <boily> ~eval 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2
20:54:40 <metasepia> 20035299304068464649790723515602557504478254755697514192650169737108940595563114530895061308809333481010382343429072631818229493821188126688695063647615470291650418719163515879663472194429309279820843091048559905701593189596395248633723672030029169695921561087649488892540908059114570376752085002066715637023661263597471448071117748158809141357427209671901518362825606180914588526998261414250301233911082736038437678764490432059603791244909057075603140350
20:54:59 <olsner> some tall numbers for a cuttlefish
20:55:08 * boily pats his bot
20:55:34 <mauke> ~eval 1 2 3 + *
20:55:34 <metasepia> Error (1): <hint>:1:9: parse error on input `*'
20:55:37 <mauke> weak
20:57:52 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 2 + 3 *
20:57:52 <preflex> 7
20:58:05 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 2 +
20:58:05 <preflex> 3
20:58:14 <oerjan> preflex: calc 3 3 *
20:58:14 <preflex> 9
20:58:29 <oerjan> preflex: calc * + 1 2 3
20:58:29 <preflex> 5
20:59:04 <oerjan> preflex: calc + * 1 2 3
20:59:05 <preflex> 7
20:59:58 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 1 1 * + * + +
20:59:58 <preflex> 4
21:00:19 <oerjan> my theory seems to hold
21:00:41 <oerjan> preflex: calc 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2 ^ 2
21:00:41 <preflex> inf
21:00:47 <mauke> what is your theory?
21:00:49 <boily> preflex: calc 1 2 2 2 + * *
21:00:49 <preflex> 9
21:01:02 <boily> preflex: calc + * * 1 2 2 2
21:01:03 <preflex> 9
21:01:06 <boily> preflex: calc + * * 2 2 2 1
21:01:06 <preflex> 6
21:01:12 <boily> what the fungot is going on.
21:01:12 <fungot> boily: gonna go get it now? i seem to remember
21:01:31 <oerjan> that it's spreading the operators between the numbers and then interpreting the result as infix
21:01:46 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 2 + 3
21:01:46 <preflex> Too many operands
21:02:30 <mauke> yeah, that's equivalent to the truth
21:02:41 <boily> mauke: but then, + * * 1 2 2 2 should produce 12?
21:02:53 <boily> oh wait.
21:02:53 <mauke> how so?
21:03:02 <boily> operator precedence.
21:03:12 <mauke> preflex: calc 1( + 2
21:03:12 <preflex> 3
21:03:16 <mauke> how about this one?
21:03:30 <boily> preflex: calc (1 2) 2 2 + * *
21:03:30 <preflex> 9
21:03:34 <boily> ...?
21:03:46 <oerjan> ouch
21:03:51 <mauke> preflex: calc 1 2 2 2 +) * *
21:03:51 <preflex> 12
21:05:13 <oerjan> preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ) ^ ) ^ ) ^
21:05:13 <preflex> 65536
21:06:27 <oerjan> preflex: calc 2 2 2 2 2 ^ ( ^ ^ ) ^
21:06:27 <preflex> 1.157920892373162e+77
21:06:57 <oerjan> > 2^16^2
21:06:58 <lambdabot> 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936
21:07:08 <oerjan> > 2**16**2
21:07:09 <lambdabot> 1.157920892373162e77
21:08:04 <oerjan> i am guessing it adds ('s to the left end and )'s to the right end until parentheses balance
21:08:29 <mauke> that's the string rewriting interpretation
21:09:29 <mauke> the actual parsing algorithm is one I invented myself when I didn't know about recursive descent
21:09:49 <oerjan> preflex: calc 2 2 2 ( ( ^ ^
21:09:49 <preflex> 16
21:10:21 <mauke> consider a simple expression of the form expr := value (operator value)*
21:10:47 <mauke> that is, an expression is a sequence of one or more values with operators in between
21:11:24 <mauke> the parser proceeds by reading symbols from left to right and inserting each into the expression tree
21:12:04 <mauke> the expression tree starts out as a simple value hole at the root
21:12:36 <mauke> each value is inserted at the hole (there is always exactly one hole when a value is read)
21:13:07 <mauke> operators climb down the right hand side of the tree
21:13:44 <mauke> when they hit a value, they replace it by a new node of the form (operator, value, <hole>), thus forming a new hole at the rightmost leaf of the tree
21:13:58 <mauke> when they hit an operator, they do battle by comparing their precedence
21:14:56 -!- carado has joined.
21:15:10 <mauke> if the new operator has a higher precedence, it continues climbing down
21:15:27 <mauke> otherwise it does an insert at the current node, using the old node as its left subtree
21:16:09 <oerjan> what happens when you insert more than one value before getting any operators
21:16:22 <mauke> doesn't happen in the current model
21:16:33 <mauke> we're still considering simple expressions only
21:16:46 <oerjan> um
21:16:56 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 + + +
21:16:56 <preflex> 4
21:17:14 <mauke> parens are handled by giving each operator node an instance precedence (in addition to its base precedence)
21:17:47 <mauke> e.g. + has a base precedence of 1 (and * 2)
21:18:30 <oerjan> mauke: in 1 1 1 1 + + + what happens when the second 1 is parsed
21:18:37 <mauke> instance precedence = current level * max precedence + base precedence
21:18:47 <mauke> the current level starts out as 0
21:18:58 <mauke> ( increments the current level; ) decrements it
21:19:31 <mauke> thus )+ forms an operator with precedence = -1 * 3 + 1 = -2
21:19:57 <oerjan> ah
21:20:12 <mauke> what preflex actually uses is an extension of this algorithm
21:20:25 <mauke> all values are put into a separate list
21:20:26 <oerjan> preflex: calc 1 1 1 1 ( ) + + +
21:20:27 <preflex> 4
21:20:39 <mauke> the operators are used to construct the expression tree
21:20:49 -!- Zuu has changed nick to Z[_].
21:20:49 <mauke> all leaves of the expression tree will be holes
21:20:56 <mauke> then the values are inserted from left to right
21:21:46 <oerjan> ok
21:21:47 -!- glogbackup has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
21:22:00 <mauke> preflex: calc 1 + + 2
21:22:00 <preflex> Not enough mana
21:22:19 <mauke> it first checks to see whether the number of holes matches the number of values
21:24:37 <mauke> ploki doesn't use this algorithm because I knew even less about parsers when I "designed" ploki
21:24:55 <mauke> (ploki simply evaluates left to right)
21:25:04 -!- yiyus has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:26:29 -!- Z[_] has changed nick to Z[_][_].
21:27:52 <mauke> `run echo '(1 + 2 * 3' | ploki
21:27:54 <HackEgo> 9
21:28:01 <mauke> (but you still don't have to balance your parens)
21:28:01 -!- yiyus has joined.
21:29:07 -!- Z[_][_] has changed nick to Z[_][_][_].
21:30:27 <oerjan> `run echo '(1 + 2) * (3 + 4)' | ploki
21:30:28 <HackEgo> 21
21:32:03 -!- Z[_][_][_] has changed nick to Zuu.
21:37:13 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone).
21:39:42 <oerjan> @tell elliott i'm not sure if that thing you removed was trolling, but if not it's probably something worse than lolcode...
21:39:42 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
21:40:48 <boily> worse than lolcode?
21:41:20 <oerjan> boily: the poster seemed to speak entirely in lolspeak
21:41:38 <elliott> I reverted it because I know exactly what it is
21:41:42 <elliott> also the post was contentless
21:42:00 <oerjan> elliott: what is c+= then?
21:42:03 <boily> a message from a lolorc from loldor...
21:42:23 <oerjan> it's sort of hard to google
21:46:36 <boily> moved over to the basement and the hearth → https://www.dropbox.com/s/grejkhn9px0mxj6/2013-12-30%2016.44.31.jpg
21:48:23 <boily> (fire is good. I like fire.)
21:49:39 <oerjan> `? boily
21:49:41 <HackEgo> boily is the brother of Roujo's brother and he's monetizing the company Roujo works at, or something Canadian like that. He's also a NaniDispenser, and a Man Eating Chicken.
21:50:54 <oerjan> it's so long...
21:51:54 <boily> I know. there were also other things going on in my description before it got munged, mashed, reworked, and completely upheaved.
21:52:45 <oerjan> `run echo "Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken." >wisdom/'things boily likes'
21:52:48 <HackEgo> No output.
21:54:15 <oerjan> `run echo "Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở." >wisdom/'things boily likes'
21:54:18 <HackEgo> No output.
21:54:29 <boily> aurgh!
21:54:38 <boily> just as I updated the PDF.
21:54:45 <boily> oerjan, you are merciless.
21:55:08 <fizzie> I'm still a bit surprised it isn't automatic. (With a DSL of exceptions for exceptional entries.)
21:55:32 <oerjan> `run grep ở wisdom/*
21:55:35 <HackEgo> Binary file wisdom/irrelevant info matches \ wisdom/phở:phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam. \ wisdom/things boily likes:Fire is good. I like fire. Also chicken. And phở.
21:56:12 <boily> fizzie: it's... well. uhm. I... you see...
21:56:15 <oerjan> boily: well at least i didn't make you bring up an entirely new language font this time.
21:56:18 <fizzie> `? irrelevant info
21:56:20 <HackEgo> KHL?%y9vnkM_v46$Tn`ʋxkH2gqH;!;2F(zإ2CmXW
21:56:24 <fizzie> Good.
21:56:55 <boily> oerjan: I'd have to say the vietnamese was the hardest “feature” I had to mix in the PDF.
21:57:15 <boily> fizzie: I shamelessly skipped that one. if you want, you can add it and commit the changes.
21:57:30 -!- callforjudgement has joined.
21:57:43 <fizzie> I don't know, it sounds a bit ambiguous as for rendering, what with all those control characters.
21:58:03 <mauke> http://examplea.acom/
21:58:08 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
21:59:00 <oerjan> `run sed -i 's/p/P/' wisdom/phở
21:59:03 <HackEgo> No output.
21:59:11 <oerjan> `? phở
21:59:13 <HackEgo> Phở là một món ăn truyền thống của Việt Nam, cũng có thể xem là một trong những món ăn đặc trưng nhất cho ẩm thực Việt Nam.
22:01:10 -!- LinearInterpol has joined.
22:17:46 -!- nisstyre has joined.
22:26:37 <fizzie> Thought of the day: would be nice to know some statistics on how much sieni.us has been watched while being some kind of intoxicated, and how much not. (Was trying to find out why a melody was familiar.)
22:27:10 <Taneb> I am thinking of switching operating systems
22:27:44 -!- ais523 has left ("<fungot> fizzie: it makes demons fly out of my window, washing the windows api").
22:28:39 <Taneb> fizzie, what OS should I use
22:28:48 <Taneb> IMPORTANT QUESTION WITH NEXT TO NO CONTEXT
22:30:09 <mauke> TempleOS
22:30:22 <LinearInterpol> ^^^^^^^^^^^
22:30:55 <Taneb> Nah
22:31:00 <fizzie> TempleOS is some sort of newfangled nonsense, LoseThos or bust.
22:31:37 <fizzie> As for a (serious|boring) answer, I would think it sort of depends on what you're "gunna" be doing with it.
22:32:06 <Taneb> Mostly browsing the web and trying to program, occasional gaming
22:32:16 <mauke> win xp
22:32:59 <fizzie> MacOS and NetWare 5 that boot simultaneously.
22:32:59 <Taneb> Nah
22:33:24 <mauke> coyotos
22:33:27 <Taneb> Thinking of throwing myself at NixOS
22:34:18 <fizzie> I've just used a dual-boot Debian + Windows for pretty much those things, but that's really the boringest. (Functional, though.)
22:36:13 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds).
22:36:48 * boily mapoles mauke
22:37:18 <boily> Taneb: don't listen to this rag-tag bunch of non-believers. use the REALEST MOST BESTEST OS OF THEM ALL!
22:37:44 <boily> Taneb: embrace linux. become one with it. abandon your soul to the bien-être of the Penguin!
22:38:05 <mauke> slackware or gentoo?
22:38:18 * boily continues to mapole mauke
22:38:20 <boily> Arch!
22:38:38 <Taneb> I... had problems with Arch that will not occur this time but now I am scared of Arch
22:39:17 <LinearInterpol> Arch is the best.
22:39:24 <LinearInterpol> Don't you dare say otherwise.
22:39:43 <Taneb> I never said it wasn't! Only that it scared me.
22:39:58 <boily> there's even a wiki page for that! https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_is_the_best
22:40:21 <LinearInterpol> I did not know that existed. Thank you.
22:45:19 -!- copumpkin has joined.
22:47:27 -!- boily has quit (Quit: TIMED CHICKEN).
22:47:29 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
23:07:08 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds).
23:07:51 <FireFly> 'embrace linux'? I think boily wants you to attempt LFS, Taneb
23:08:07 <Taneb> :O
23:09:20 <olsner> I think he just meant to give linux a hug, it needs it
23:10:26 <LinearInterpol> It does.
23:22:41 <myname> i like "arch iz da shizzle ma nizzle"
23:26:55 <myname> "haskell - the language where IO is easy and unproblematic"
23:27:35 <Bike> i personally use a perl ffi for output in all my haskell programs
23:30:38 <Taneb> This typewriter was the best 5 pounds I have ever spend
23:54:14 -!- Sgeo has joined.
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