00:00:52 ^celebrate UTC 00:00:52 \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/ 00:00:52 | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c | 00:00:53 |\ c.c >\ /< | | /`\ c.c /^\ | |\|/< c.c |\ 00:00:53 (_|¯`\ /´\ 00:00:53 |_) (_| |_) 00:00:53 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:04:50 Mousepad decided to scroll the opposite direction for a brief period of time 00:04:52 How bizarre 00:08:56 it's that timey-wimey new year stuff. 00:23:03 -!- olsner has joined. 00:23:15 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:23:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Changing host). 00:23:17 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 00:23:34 ooh. colors explained ... http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20031121 00:29:10 -!- Jafet has quit (Changing host). 00:29:10 -!- Jafet has joined. 00:29:19 -!- Jafet has left. 00:30:04 hapy new yere 00:30:47 happy new year 00:32:04 happy new year! 00:32:57 oh, 2013 was BBB in base 13. 00:32:58 it's not year for you kmc stop pretending 00:50:51 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:52:33 -!- Bike has joined. 00:55:48 -!- nucular has joined. 01:07:13 Even if the Worlds servers go offline forever, it will always be possible to visit the official Worlds.com worlds 01:07:49 thank god 01:08:14 Thank Nar'Quilak, god of the Worlds and all who inhabit them 01:10:56 Sgeo: why 01:11:54 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:12:36 hi zzo38 01:12:44 what are you doing for new years eve 01:13:19 kmc: the built-in Worlds are stored locally 01:13:26 And there's an easy to use offline mode 01:17:06 Should I be using Mozart/Oz 1.4 or Mozart 2? 01:17:23 use at least 1.7 01:17:40 how's 2014 guys? 01:17:43 [Mozart 2] adds an extension interface to the virtual machine to allow language extensions defined within Oz." 01:17:50 ....suddenly I want Mozart 2 01:17:59 But the main documentation site is all 1 01:18:12 quintopia: so far it's pretty similar to late 2013 01:31:10 quintopia: apart from all the eldrich abominations, it's quite similar. 01:31:17 hth. 01:31:24 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 01:31:26 oerjan: sorry we never killed the abomination 01:32:03 sorry, *eldritch 01:33:25 -!- Bike has joined. 01:34:26 -!- tromp_ has joined. 01:37:23 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:39:56 > (18/11, 5/3) 01:39:57 (1.6363636363636365,1.6666666666666667) 01:40:37 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:41:44 -!- Bike has joined. 01:45:43 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night, don't let the shoggoths bite). 01:48:23 quintopia: I am not doing anything for new year's eve, yet 02:19:19 -!- Frooxius has quit (Quit: *bubbles away*). 02:19:32 -!- Frooxius has joined. 02:23:05 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 02:23:57 Psy vs. Linkin Park https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycHluR67jiY&list=PLgcoT7-W0fP258nmxEy-2pkFJftUKjdRi 02:24:38 seen. amazing 02:28:10 -!- zzo38 has quit (Quit: Leaving. Now I will let the shoggoths bite. (Sorry, oerjan)). 02:29:27 http://www.ytj.fi/english/yritystiedot.aspx?yavain=2486686&kielikoodi=3&tarkiste=DA735DFD038226CA09DA2531FAFD93B8303B1F73&path=1704;1736;2052 03:09:21 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:09:42 happy year! 03:12:06 same to you! 03:15:11 happy new year #esoteric~ 03:15:27 -!- oklopol has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:26:20 -!- LinearInterpol has changed nick to NewYearInterpol. 03:33:38 -!- conehead has joined. 03:35:15 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 03:36:45 -!- Bike has joined. 03:38:20 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: I'm off. Happy new year.). 03:40:04 Oz's or construct... doesn't do this statically, it's more a deadlock if it fails, but still cool: All branches except 1 must ..fail.. So you do have to write conditionals in each branch to exclude the other branches 03:40:09 Which I think might be more readable 03:40:27 The 'conditionals' will run simultaneously 03:46:10 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:48:59 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:49:13 I made up a program in TI-92 calculator to select the puzzle chips for Puzzle Strike game at random. 04:04:25 -!- conehead has joined. 04:41:36 -!- mauke has quit (Disconnected by services). 04:41:46 -!- mauke has joined. 04:44:09 -!- preflex_ has joined. 04:44:27 -!- preflex has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 04:44:34 -!- preflex_ has changed nick to preflex. 05:21:57 -!- mrhmouse has joined. 05:46:41 zzo38: you should build a drinking game i bet you'd be rich 05:57:43 -!- mrhmouse has quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!). 06:00:21 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 06:02:11 -!- NewYearInterpol has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 06:36:16 quintopia: I don't intend to do such a thing. 06:36:38 yes of course you don't you're zzo38 06:36:40 merry hristmasc 06:40:59 Given some pairs of starting and ending vertices on a graph, is the problem of finding a set of paths such that every vertex is hit as np-complete as the version with just one pair? 06:41:09 hit once 06:41:13 and only once, i guess 06:42:56 I don't know. 06:48:48 i guess you can probably turn that into normal hamiltonian path by adding edges between the starts and finishes. 06:48:58 directed, though 07:30:21 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 07:54:28 I think Oz's WaitNeeded is pretty cool 07:54:38 {WaitNeeded X} blocks until something else forces X 08:46:08 "Tune in next year for the exciting beginning!" 08:58:46 -!- carado has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 09:35:17 Now I added the year category 09:56:04 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 09:58:53 Did you know that some conditions can be implemented in TeX without using the \if... conditional commands? 10:00:37 For example: \def\equalcond#1#2#3{\begingroup\expandafter\def\csname\number#2\endcsname{False}\expandafter\def\csname\number#3\endcsname{True}\edef\next{\endgroup\noexpand\csname#1\csname\number#2\endcsname\noexpand\endcsname}\next} 10:01:18 I also have \nonzerocond, \lesscond, \oddcond, \hmodecond, \vmodecond, \voidcond, and \vboxcond. 10:14:32 } No, still looks like a blank. Ah, I've got it! It's that Unicode character that looks like a blank, is rendered as a blank, but is actually described as "a ghost in an invisibility cloak, juggling ferrets". 10:22:47 Sgeo, really? What code point is that? 10:23:26 U+THATWASJUSMEQUOTINGTHEINTERNETORACLENOTAREALOBSERVATION 10:25:05 Ah 10:51:09 -!- nisstyre has joined. 10:52:01 -!- oerjan has joined. 11:19:45 Can this 142-byte program be shortened even more? \newcount\-\let~\advance\day0\loop~\-1~\day1~\mit\ifnum\-=3\-0Fizz\fi\ifnum\fam=5Buzz\rm\fi\ifvmode\the\day\fi\endgraf\ifnum\day<`d\repeat\bye 11:26:27 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:28:20 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 11:28:48 -!- copumpkin has joined. 11:58:08 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 11:59:58 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 12:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:46:56 zzo38: What does it do? 12:47:05 -!- olsner has joined. 12:56:03 -!- Sorella has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:56:23 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:10:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 13:19:56 -!- oklopol has joined. 13:22:24 -!- HaikuUser has joined. 13:22:53 -!- HaikuUser has quit (Client Quit). 13:31:54 FreeFull: It makes the "FizzBuzz" output 13:33:26 Ah 13:33:33 Didn't look at it carefully enough 13:34:50 I tried to shorten it with "code golf", without any error messages 13:37:46 I don't know if you can make it any shorter without switching to a different language 13:38:38 Yes, it can be shorter in other programming languages, but clearly that isn't what I am doing here. 13:39:11 I am writing it using TeX. 13:39:31 It does do a few strange things but maybe you can see if you can understand or not, these things. 13:42:29 For example, the use of \mit without math mode 13:44:07 \mit and \rm are both commands for changing the font, but this program never changes the font. \day is the register to store the current date, but this program doesn't care about the date and time. The \fam register is only for math mode, and this program doesn't use math mode. 13:47:05 Can you program in TeX at all? 13:58:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:59:31 -!- yorick has joined. 14:16:00 -!- NewYearInterpol has joined. 14:17:06 I can't 14:28:14 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 14:28:36 Do you understand a bit so far what I explain? 14:29:55 -!- tertu has joined. 14:36:23 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 14:55:23 Yeah 14:58:37 Note that \mit is defined something like \def\mit{\fam1 } so if ~ means \advance then ~\mit will increment the \fam register (which does nothing outside of math mode). The \rm command, in addition to selecting the roman font (which is already selected, so it won't change it), has the effect of setting \fam to zero. 15:00:44 So it can shorten by using existing macros in unusual ways. 15:09:09 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:26:08 Fun with side effects 15:30:05 FreeFull: you don't prefer your fun to be pure? 15:30:37 That's much more boring because you know what will happen 15:37:58 -!- nucular has joined. 15:52:27 -!- conehead has joined. 15:56:51 -!- Jafet has joined. 16:07:50 “Theoretically, certain types of sleep could be possible while flying, but technical difficulties preclude the recording of brain activity in birds while they are flying.” 16:09:30 > (\(Sorted xs) -> xs) $ foldMap (Sorted . (:[])) [1,5,3,6,7,2] :: [Integer] 16:09:32 [1,2,3,5,6,7] 16:13:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 16:17:11 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:35:20 -!- nucular has joined. 16:35:20 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 16:35:20 -!- nucular has joined. 16:39:31 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:42:10 -!- carado has joined. 16:46:28 I've been trying to find out more about SURFIT, an ancestor of Core War. 16:48:50 > (\(Sorted xs) -> xs) $ foldMap (Sorted . (:[])) ['z','x'..] 16:48:51 "\NUL\STX\EOT\ACK\b\n\f\SO\DLE\DC2\DC4\SYN\CAN\SUB\FS\RS \"$&(*,.02468:<>@BD... 16:48:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 16:49:02 > (\(Sorted xs) -> xs) $ foldMap (Sorted . (:[])) ['z','x'..'a'] 16:49:04 "bdfhjlnprtvxz" 16:49:46 I bet there is some way to combine compression with programming 16:49:57 There doesn't appear to be anything online apart from what I just posted https://plus.google.com/102212268901593257476/posts/YQs8bnXAdsc 16:50:20 @localtime Taneb 16:50:20 Local time for Taneb is Wed Jan 1 16:50:20 16:50:26 I need a clock 16:51:07 FreeFull: there are compression quines 16:51:09 those are fun 16:53:49 * impomatic wonders if anyone has written a threaded Forth with dictionary compression. 16:54:24 ais523: I was thinking of a language where meaning changes as you go through the source code, in a similar way to compression sort of 16:54:52 Where future code would refer to slices of past code, but more complex than that 16:55:15 Eventually, FreeFull invents FORTRAN. 16:56:07 You know that's not how I meant it =P 16:56:42 Now I want to make zperl 16:56:56 -!- nucular has joined. 16:57:01 That'd be a good name for it 16:57:30 you could use compression-like rules for flow control 16:57:40 like, have no loops or conditionals, all you can do is repeat commands that ran earlier 17:01:44 So boring, why not design around actual compression. A program that retains meaning when reduced in the frequency domain. 17:02:24 (cf. http://www.ioccc.org/2011/akari/akari.c) 17:04:01 what about a language with the restriction that the compiler rejects source files that become smaller when compressed? 17:04:13 i.e. it aggressively rejects code duplication 17:04:32 preferably using a compression algorithm that isn't fooled by adding large random comments 17:12:43 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 17:13:05 You don't get comments, you just get code that you skip over 17:13:16 I'm not sure if such a language would be turing complete 17:20:43 If the language is defined such that a program's output is interpreted as a program in another language, then any (second-stage) program can be written in its Kolmogorov length. 17:21:57 FreeFull: no, I don't mean skipped code / comments in particular 17:22:10 I mean a compression algorithm that still compresses the compressible bits even if there are incompressible bits too 17:22:12 like azip 17:23:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 17:29:30 -!- conehead has joined. 17:31:10 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:32:15 -!- nucular has joined. 17:40:05 -!- tertu has joined. 18:11:35 -!- nucular has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 18:12:18 -!- nucular has joined. 18:12:19 -!- nucular has quit (Excess Flood). 18:13:01 -!- nucular has joined. 18:13:03 -!- nucular has quit (Excess Flood). 18:14:52 -!- olsner has joined. 18:18:53 FreeFull: check out my language ETAS. it kind of does what you're talking about 18:19:21 `? ETAS 18:19:26 ETAS? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 18:19:31 http://esolangs.org/wiki/ETAS 18:19:32 http://esolangs.org/wiki/ETAS 18:19:33 perhaps 18:19:46 quintopia: You made it =P 18:20:58 FreeFull: except that it does have that jump command which may not be required for turing-completeness. i should probably remove it. 18:28:24 http://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/1u5odz/dogs_poop_in_alignment_with_earths_magnetic_field/ fascinating. 18:31:26 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 18:33:42 quintopia: if zzo asked me for reading frames I would just point to x86 18:36:13 Jafet: do you know of any programs for x86 that predictably perform different useful tasks depending upon your starting offset into the program (no cheating by putting programs in as data or jumping past them) 18:37:00 Why is that cheating 18:37:14 i believe that is the basic idea behind "functions" 18:37:26 (Try writing a nontrivial "etas" program without doing that) 18:37:57 Jafet: it would be hard, but, i would hope, at least possible. 18:41:27 http://www.ioccc.org/2011/akari/akari.c may be relevant (resampling a program to get another program) 18:42:08 quintopia: someone linked a paper about finding unintended code sequences to use for exploits a while ago 18:42:11 To achieve this, the original program has to be very redundant. 18:42:46 ROP uses a large amount of jumping, so it is "cheating" in the above sense 18:42:53 Jafet: yeah i really like that submission 18:43:07 More importantly, it is cheating because the actual program is the prepared stack 18:44:42 Jafet: but the goal with etas was to have something that was "the middle bits of an instruction" later be parsed as "the beginning of an instruction". it's not something i had ever seen in another language. 18:45:46 The only reasonable way to multiprogram in etas, I think, is to cheat 18:46:54 The difficulty probably depends highly on the instruction encoding. 18:47:40 yeah probably 18:48:20 still, it didn't seem possible to program in malbolge either at one point... 18:48:57 Jafet: but the goal with etas was to have something that was "the middle bits of an instruction" later be parsed as "the beginning of an instruction". it's not something i had ever seen in another language. ← see MiniMAX, http://esolangs.org/wiki/MiniMAX 18:49:15 it's the only way to do any sort of flow control, arithmetic, or well anything 18:49:46 ais523: yeah i think i saw that well after i made etas 18:50:01 each instruction is three bytes long, one is a value to write, one is overwritten by the value-to-write of the next command, and one tells you which command to run next (unconditionally) 18:50:12 you're not going to get anywhere without command-punning in that language 18:50:42 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com). 18:56:08 i should read the smallfuck interpreter code. it's not clear to me how it would work 19:09:16 "We're just going through our records and -- even though you're one of our best supporters -- it looks like you're not a 2013 founding member." ... pretty sure I donated money between 0 and 1 times. I pretty much ignore these emails... is "best supporter" just supposed to make me feel good, it's just a lie? 19:10:08 Sgeo: I suspect so, mail order catalogues do that all the time 19:49:45 -!- typeclassy_ has joined. 19:51:43 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:52:28 -!- ski_ has joined. 19:52:47 -!- jix_ has joined. 19:53:50 -!- CADD_ has joined. 19:55:41 -!- fizzie` has joined. 19:56:04 -!- nycs has joined. 19:58:18 -!- augur has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:18 -!- CADD has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:18 -!- typeclassy has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:18 -!- Deewiant has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:18 -!- `^_^v has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:19 -!- ski has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:19 -!- jix has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:20 -!- fizzie has quit (*.net *.split). 19:58:24 -!- typeclassy_ has changed nick to typeclassy. 19:58:32 -!- CADD_ has changed nick to CADD. 20:00:24 -!- Deewiant has joined. 20:00:39 -!- olsner has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:04:29 -!- FreeFull_ has joined. 20:09:04 -!- FreeFull has quit (*.net *.split). 20:09:05 -!- fungot has quit (*.net *.split). 20:21:37 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:21:46 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:46:10 -!- rodgort has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:47:02 -!- fizzie` has changed nick to fizzie. 20:47:18 I had acquired some kind of an extra bit. 20:48:18 -!- impomatic has joined. 20:49:58 -!- rodgort has joined. 20:54:15 -!- rodgort has quit (Excess Flood). 20:58:43 -!- rodgort has joined. 21:03:08 -!- LavaLevel has joined. 21:03:12 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:03:37 -!- LavaLevel has left. 21:04:28 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 21:18:21 Wow, the sale for Just Cause 2 has some fucked up pricing. The cheapest option is not to buy the "Collection" with the game + the DLC, nor is it to buy the game then the DLC pack. No it is to buy the game and then the DLC individually it appears! 21:18:35 Steam... 21:20:12 -!- conehead has joined. 21:20:25 -!- conehead has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:20:53 -!- conehead has joined. 21:23:10 Basically Just Cause 2 is 80% off. Most of the individual DLC are 81% off(!!!). Except one that is 80% off. The collections are only 50% off each. 21:25:19 -!- nisstyre has joined. 21:26:14 ah but I can save even more money by not buying the game at all. 21:26:38 int-e: not as much as me! 21:28:59 int-e, well yeah, but in what other game can you go out on the wing of a aircraft you are flying and *grapple hook* over to another aircraft and then throw the pilot out through the window 21:29:27 Just Cause 2 is one hell of an awesome sandbox game for just doing crazy stuff in 21:29:51 Such as using your two point grapple hook to tow a tank with a Boeing 747 21:30:20 Vorpal: "Price of individual games: 6,11€" "Bundle cost: 14,99€" yes, it looks like a good deal. 21:30:46 fizzie, eh? What? 21:30:55 fizzie, the game costs 2.99 discounted here 21:31:06 and the DLC add up to 1.73 EUR 21:31:14 fizzie, I can't get that to 6.11 21:31:18 apparently they've started making USB drives show up as internal disks in windows 21:31:19 Vorpal: That was for the collection including also the first game. 21:31:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:31:38 fizzie, ah right, well the first game is meh from what I heard 21:32:16 fizzie, also the multi player mod for Just Cause 2 recently released 21:32:31 elliott: who "they"? 21:33:00 elliott, that happened in windows 7 didn't it? At least external rotational USB HDDs had to be removed by "safe removal" thingy in the area next to the clock which I forgot the name of 21:33:15 Unlike USB flash sticks which you can just right click and select eject on 21:34:09 Vorpal: It's the "notification area" these days. 21:34:31 Ah 21:34:36 "When referring to the notification area: Refer to the notification area as the notification area, not the system tray." (MSDN) 21:34:59 Also: "Do not taunt the notification area." (Not MSDN, sadly.) 21:35:40 so why is the notification area full of stuff that's not notifications? 21:35:55 because people think it's a good place to put advertising 21:36:02 Because everyone still treats it as the system tray 21:36:09 Because people can't follow directions, perhaps. 21:36:12 "Well-designed programs use the notification area appropriately, without being annoying or distracting." 21:36:24 these rules exist because they're so often violated 21:36:25 oh. 21:36:31 (It doesn't say what programs that are not well-designed do.) 21:36:46 The only static icons there that has ever been of any use to me have been the network status and on non-multimedia keyboards, the volume setting 21:36:46 if it's not supposed to distract it should be invisible at all times. 21:37:25 I assume the fact everyone puts an always-visible icon there is what made them implement the notification area icon hiding thing. 21:37:29 I have no idea why steam on windows minimizes into that area also 21:37:35 fizzie, probably 21:37:42 That thing is really useful 21:38:04 Oh yeah at work I also have the Incredibuild icon there. That is like a distcc for windows 21:38:44 Actually more like a distributed make, since it is a bit smarter about it than distcc 21:38:48 Linux Steam pops up a tray (it's really a tray, the freedesktop.org specification says so) icon too. 21:39:42 fizzie, yes but it *also* stays in the normal task bar as well when minimized 21:39:47 Unlike on Windows 21:40:34 XChat and VLC manages to properly minimize to that tray if you want to at least 21:40:41 Not that I see the point of that 21:40:50 I don't know if Linux Steam knows how to put up an Ayatana "indicator" if running under a Gnomey thing. 21:41:05 what is "Ayatana"? 21:41:27 Sorry, I guess Ayatana indicators are maybe Ubuntu-specific? I don't really know how it goes. 21:41:36 Also yeah MATE would definitely count as Gnomey 21:41:52 Debian with MATE here, mate 21:41:59 fizzie: Ayatana's Ubuntu-specific, indeed 21:42:08 It's part of the Ubuntu "user experience" project, I don't know if regular Gnome got the indicators. 21:42:20 Uh 21:42:25 VLC on Ubuntu should be hiding in the launcher with a context menu, rather than the tray with a context area 21:42:27 but it isn't 21:42:48 ais523, it only uses the tray if you click on the tray icon to minimize it 21:43:00 Otherwise it simply minimizes to the normal task bar 21:43:03 same with xchat 21:43:10 Vorpal: what annoys me is that it has a tray icon at all 21:43:13 although you can turn that off 21:43:30 it doesn't have nice controls on the right-click menu on the launcher like Totem does, though, because it's not Unity-aware 21:44:02 Eh, someone who is computer savy and uses Unity? 21:44:05 There's at least a GNOME Shell extension to integrate "indicators" there. Though as far as I can tell, it's not part of Gnome proper, perhaps. 21:44:06 Didn't expect that 21:44:19 Vorpal: I /like/ Unity :-( 21:44:23 but it is rather slow and buggy 21:44:29 actually most of the slowness is Zeitgeist's fault 21:44:33 Last I tried unity, which was admittedly in the first ubuntu version it was included, it was terrible 21:44:44 What is Zeitgeist now again? 21:44:49 until recently I used it just for the launcher 21:45:08 (Fun fact: Ayatana also includes "windicators".) 21:45:11 although more recently the lenses/scopes have been useful too 21:45:27 Vorpal: Zeitgeist's purpose is basically recording which files you've opened 21:45:29 fizzie, you say gnome shell, are you talking about the abomination that is Gnome 3? 21:45:32 in order to get useful "recently used" output 21:45:39 except it is mindbogglingly overengineered for that purpose 21:45:39 Ah 21:45:46 Vorpal: Sure, that's what Gnome is. 21:46:02 ais523: I wanted to ask you. Do you know of any good let's plays that do weird things and pretend they're entirely normal. I watched an absolutely brilliant Link's Awakening one 21:46:24 ais523, hm Spotlight on OS X and even more so the Windows 7 start menu search/run field works fine. How hard could it be to replicate that 21:46:29 coppro: I don't like that style of play, really 21:46:32 which btw I have been looking for under linux 21:46:34 if people are being weird I like them to acknowledge it 21:46:35 not yet found it 21:46:48 ais523: I find ig hilarious 21:46:51 *it 21:46:57 so no, although there was a Link's Awakening speedrun like that at one of the SDA marathons 21:47:01 it's a good game to act like that 21:47:04 "watch out for the old grandmas here, sometimes they shoot octoroks at you" 21:47:05 coppro, lparchive? Or some youtube thing? 21:47:15 I played Dungeons&Dragons game this morning. My plan wasn't necessary; I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary, since it would be complicated to set up. 21:47:20 My favourite LP is the Planescape Torment one on lparchive 21:47:22 I guess the problem with pretending it's normal is that you don't get an explanation of the technical details 21:47:47 It wasn't very good to eat, but, that's OK 21:48:31 "watch out for the old grandmas here, sometimes they shoot octoroks at you" <-- he glitched the game? 21:48:37 Or e I guess 21:49:00 Vorpal: very very heavily 21:49:23 watch out for the birdphone 21:49:25 When speed running gets to that level I find it detracts from the experience 21:49:31 ais523, birdphone? 21:49:52 Vorpal: it's a character that acts like a shopkeeper (up to the instakill effect) 21:49:57 but looks like a bird or a telephone 21:49:57 I just get google hits for someone's twitter account 21:50:02 changing between them repeatedly 21:50:22 ais523, in what game? 21:50:29 Link's Awakening 21:50:51 Vorpal: "Welcome to the first dungeon. I don't know why they call it level 8, the developers can't count or something. Now we're about to get the fire rod... it's really strange that they put the strongest item in the first dungeon." 21:50:54 it's probably the most memorable effect of the major glitching 21:51:01 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZP63oRVcgg fantastic 21:51:31 will watch in a second, just going through the latest ocremixes. They decided to post 10 today. 21:51:55 -!- pikhq_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 21:52:15 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 21:52:47 Somehow I think I've been getting less of the HTML5 player in YouTube lately. :/ 21:53:07 Ah found the LP in question 21:53:16 Yeah this might be run to look at 21:53:24 Given that I know how the game is *supposed* to go 22:00:17 nooodl: that reminds me of messing around with that bug with the dog house 22:03:08 coppro: what Link's Awakening let's play was this? 22:03:20 I don't have a link on hand, but vorpal found it apparently 22:03:36 Oh, ah 22:03:44 Vorpal: mind passing a link to it? 22:07:33 FireFly, http://lparchive.org/Legend-of-Zelda-Links-Awakening/ 22:07:41 I assume that is what he meant, it fits the bill perfectly 22:07:51 Also yes it is super-funny if you know how the game is supposed to go 22:07:57 It makes NO bloody sense if you don't 22:09:47 Thanks 22:15:47 coppro, this is bloody amazing 22:16:15 -!- nisstyre has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:17:57 I'd love to see, e.g. a Metroid Prime any% run done like that 22:18:22 coppro, are there suitable glitches in that game? 22:18:45 yes 22:19:13 in terms of sheer absurdity, MP2 would probably be better, because it involves way more out of bounds 22:21:14 the start of the Metroid Prime 2 run at AGDQ2013 was done like that 22:21:19 but they couldn't really keep it up 22:24:31 haha 22:25:04 I guess they might actually do that for miles' run next week 22:25:16 it'll only be an hour long and there are plenty of glitches throughout 22:25:24 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:25:27 it's MP1 any%, isn't it? 22:25:44 that's not particularly glitchy, in the sense that most of the things it does, it's believable that they're intended 22:25:52 apart from the out of bounds segment, but there's only one short one 22:25:52 no, not at all 22:26:04 it is any%, but there's so much breakage 22:26:06 they aren't intended, but they don't look so massively unintended 22:26:21 most of it's just "jump further than expected" or "jump higher than expected" 22:26:34 not in terms of actual glitches, but the sequence breaks 22:26:44 yeah, the sequence is completely different 22:26:46 but it's a Metroid game 22:26:51 you're meant to be able to do that 22:26:56 not at all 22:27:01 Space Jump first? sure, why not 22:28:09 you're meant to be able to do that <-- to some extent 22:28:18 I only played about half of Super Metroid 22:28:34 And some stuff was definitely gated by needing something else to reach it 22:28:39 most of the MP sequence breaks are glitches and were corrected in later editions; fusion, prime 3, and other M are all linear games built with triggers so you can't really break them 22:29:35 Vorpal: hardly anything, because Super Metroid has a bunch of special moves you're not meant to realise exist the first time through 22:29:43 ais523, oh? 22:29:46 coppro: actually, Prime 3 has already been broken 22:29:55 super metroid and zero mission were built with more stuff 22:30:01 Fusion and Other M have been attempted to break, but Fusion softlocks if you go out of sequence 22:30:09 and Other M is full of invisible walls 22:30:21 ais523: yeah, prime 3 can only really be broken with OOB though 22:30:44 Vorpal: the main ones are the walljump and six varieties of shinespark (the game only tells you about one of them, and even then only in an optional area) 22:30:50 so it's really a different class of glitch 22:30:59 coppro: Hazard Shield skip 22:30:59 ais523, shinespark? 22:31:09 ais523: yeah, that one wokrs 22:31:10 *works 22:31:20 Vorpal: if you don't know what a shinespark is, then it's safe to say that you don't understand what intended breaks are built into Super Metroid 22:31:28 the easy way to do one, a ground-based vertical one 22:31:34 is to get up to speed boost speed, crouch, then jump 22:31:35 ais523: it's hard to know if they're all intended 22:31:40 then you keep going upwards 22:31:41 ais523, yeah as I said I only got about 1/4 to 1/2 into it 22:31:51 it's entirely possible that the devs just didn't think about the consequences of the shinespark 22:32:03 and there are definitely dumb physics glitches like the gravity glitch 22:32:14 coppro: in my opinion, it's most likely that they explicitly didn't want to think about the consequences 22:32:23 yeah, that's possible 22:32:26 ais523: you also forgot the ridiculous things you can do with bomb jumps 22:32:30 anyway, Super Metroid has a definite intended sequence 22:32:36 yeah 22:32:37 coppro: no, I didn't mention the infinite bomb jump, because it's possible it's a glitch 22:32:40 rather than intended 22:32:51 ais523: not even the infinite one, but the sideways ones 22:32:52 whereas the shinespark is most definitely intended, as is walljump, as is crystal flash 22:33:04 gravity suit physics is definitely a glitch too 22:33:09 that glitch is in lots of games 22:33:11 but yeah, I agree that the philosophy of SM is very different 22:33:16 it works in many Zelda games, for instance 22:33:41 ais523: I believe it 22:33:57 I have on my hard-drive an unfinished guide to glitches that appear all the time in games 22:34:12 some even work in NetHack :-) 22:34:26 ais523, I just googled shinespark. I do believe I activated some variant of it by mistake at some point but never figured out how to do it again. But it was years ago I played any metroid, didn't really like the game, so I never went back to it. 22:34:34 So I could misremember 22:34:47 ais523: What glitches are some of them? 22:34:50 Vorpal: anyway, the point is that most of the areas that appear to require specific items 22:34:57 And in what kind of games? 22:35:01 are actually accessible via a combination of walljumps, infinite bomb jumps, and shinesparks 22:35:01 the big difference between SM and MP I think is that SM has a bunch of features, and doesn't work in all the details of how they might affect the sequence. MP breaks almost exclusively require physics glitches 22:35:18 SJF is unusual in that it *doesn't*, but the devs attempted to squash it in future versions anyways 22:35:22 coppro: well they're mostly numerical glitches 22:35:39 SJF is a numerical glitch in that you get it via dashing further than you should be able to 22:35:56 yeah, actually, I guess the exact dash effect could be seen as a glitch too 22:35:58 actually you can get it by bombjumping too, but that needs you to actually get bombs first 22:36:02 but there's other things, like early Wild 22:36:08 which is just a poorly placed trigger 22:36:10 coppro: well they tried to fix it in Metroid Prime 2, and in Metroid Prime PAL 22:36:21 in Metroid Prime 2, you have to let go of L (as in MP1) but also hold R, which is diffrent from MP1 22:36:36 in the PAL version, you have to do it off an enemy, which means luring an enemy out of one of the nearby corridors, so it's much slower 22:36:45 yeah 22:36:53 also, early Wild isn't a poorly placed trigger 22:36:58 that's like the only place in the game where an infinite bomb jump works 22:37:06 I'd say the trigger's in the right place but the walls are weird 22:37:19 making the infinite bomb jump possible 22:37:55 but then, early Wild is awesome and the game's better for it existing 22:37:59 and it doesn't hurt anything 22:38:01 other great ones: cargo ship skip, every thing about skipping Thardus 22:38:08 it's not like the Artifact of Wild actually does anything until after you'd normally need it 22:38:12 TBJ breaks a lot and you can do worse 22:39:21 also triple bomb jumps are pretty rarely useful 22:39:51 cargo ship skip is the only one I can think of offhand, now that the rune door leading to the Charge Beam (?) turns out to be faster in in-game time to do the intended way 22:40:09 I think you're thinking the one to flaaghra 22:40:57 could be 22:41:01 I was trying to remember which was which 22:41:07 they are so similar-looking :-( 22:41:23 nah, the charge beam one is a big round one 22:42:35 right 22:42:46 I thought the big round one went to Flaahgra 22:42:50 also, something that I've been wondering about 22:42:57 what do you actually need the charge beam for? 22:43:12 even low%s get it, and I don't think they need super missiles 22:43:23 and the only point I can think of that might potentially need it is the entrance to Phendrana 22:44:57 coppro, wow the logistics of making that glitch Zelda LA LP 22:45:35 ais523: ugh, I was reading this discussion on m2k2 the other day and now I can't remember 22:45:38 hmm 22:45:52 I was thinking of looking on m2k2 22:45:56 are the forums still alive? 22:46:01 very 22:46:13 I'll find it 22:46:14 I know the main website wasn't, last I looked 22:46:19 I'll race you :-) 22:47:04 charge beam has been skipped 22:47:32 current min% is missiles, morph ball, bombs, varia, wave, ice, plasma, pbs, xray, and artifacts 22:48:32 ah right 22:48:48 hmm, now I'm wondering which missiles that is 22:49:05 could be the intended ones, I guess, there's no reason not to except it's a long fight 22:49:22 also that min% doesn't add up 22:49:35 12 artifacts + 9 items 22:49:47 12 artifacts, + {missiles, morph ball, bombs, varia, wave, ice, plasma, power bombs, x-ray scope} 22:49:51 that skips phazon suit 22:49:55 which is required for the final boss 22:50:20 phazon suit isn't a % unless it's the last one 22:50:41 oh, it doesn't count towards percentage if you don't have gravity? 22:50:42 that's weird 22:50:49 I thought it counted for 2% 22:50:50 no, it doesn't count unless you have all other items 22:51:36 err, OK :-) 22:51:46 or maybe it doesn't count at all and the game just has no 99%; I don't know if anyone's gotten the energy tank afterward without it to be able to test this 22:51:47 MP1's percentage counter is weird 22:52:08 did you know that collecting all the power bomb expansions but not the main power bombs gives you the same percentage as collecting the main power bombs? 22:52:17 nope 22:52:23 I guess it just counts by number of PBs? 22:52:26 yeah 22:52:37 in Metroid Prime 2, they just add 1% whenever you collect an item 22:52:47 so you can get 101% because there's one missile expansion you can pick up twice 22:53:04 the MP1 counter sounds like every bug ever in NetHack 22:53:45 the infinite boost item loss skip is so stupid 22:54:08 that one makes no sense 22:54:16 I know the technical details are that it triggers every cutscene in the room at the same time 22:54:28 and the one where you land triggers before the one where you start falling so you end up at the wrong position 22:54:31 is that it? wow 22:54:45 but I have no idea /why/ it triggers every cutscene in the room at the same time 22:54:50 maybe Samus ends up infinitely large or something 22:54:55 hitting all the triggers at once 22:54:59 yeah 22:55:27 the 20% MP1 thread on m2k2 is fun to read 22:56:19 yes 22:56:32 morph ball, missiles, bombs, pbs, xray, and artifacts all seem entirely unskipabble, barring some insane break that lets you into the impact crater without the artifacts 22:57:46 missiles aren't actually required for anything but doors, right? 22:57:50 I put them in the same category as beams 22:58:01 possibly slightly easier because you don't have to hit the final boss with them 22:58:11 getting the artifact of nature from the stalagmite 22:58:22 can't you do that with the Charge Beam? 22:58:48 maybe, but then you go up a % anyway 22:58:52 so it's irrelevant 22:58:59 oh right, ofc 22:59:08 or, hmm 22:59:17 yeah 22:59:35 one suggestion in the 20% thread was to get SJ and try and lose varia (assuming that SJ will help crossing magmoor) and something else like wave 22:59:38 bombs are required for bomb jumps, in addition to many obstacles 22:59:40 wave seems like a popular target 22:59:57 yeah but how do you beat the final boss without it? 23:00:04 just wait for him to change naturally 23:00:04 there aren't that many places you need it otherwise 23:00:12 I don't think he does in the first wave phase 23:00:14 doors are the problem; they need to be SWed around 23:00:20 or she 23:00:36 actually I prefer the "Dark Samus is male" theory but it's not very popular 23:00:55 I ascribe Dark Samus as female, but Metroid Prime as genderless 23:01:08 and I tend to run with the French convention of using the masculine for neutral/unknown 23:01:21 -!- bagulhex has joined. 23:01:28 due to having been in French immersion 23:07:11 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 23:08:15 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:32:38 coppro: btw, looking up the beam use on the final boss itself, it forces you to use power/ice/wave but you can get away without plasma 23:32:46 because it's reached the spontaneous-change phase before plasma is required 23:38:15 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 23:42:13 -!- bagulhex has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:58:17 -!- pikhq has joined.