00:12:59 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:15:41 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:15:42 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:18:36 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:19:56 I have idea about a CPU design that has one external pin to tell whether to use microcode ROM or microcode RAM, which contains VLIW instructions, and the cache is in the same microcode RAM. 00:22:24 How well would it work? 00:23:02 (It does mean you can have self-modifying microcodes!!) 00:23:54 zzo38: instead of an internal pin, why not have a register that determines that? 00:23:58 *external pin 00:24:09 that way you could change it using software control 00:24:19 Yes it could be a register 00:25:31 Such register could also control supervisor/user microcode mode; however such thing could also be a output pin, so that the components can be wired for supervisor/user mode, too. 00:26:36 And, of course, need a external reset signal to reselect ROM mode and reset some of the other registers too. 00:27:13 Are any existing designs doing anything similar? 00:28:19 possibly, but I don't know of one 00:31:30 If internal condition flags are also part of the microcode program counter, and the VLIW includes each instruction has part of a address of next instruction, then you don't need branch instructions, especially if self-modifying codes are possible. You could also have multicore VLIW. 00:33:19 ais523: i have a hunch you could merge the header and the 523 padding by making more copies of the header instead... 00:33:57 oerjan: oh, that would work for the after-padding, there's no actual reason to use a whole number of copies of the header 00:34:10 (that's me assuming the language was simpler than it was, because I was in tarpit mode) 00:34:18 oh, wait, /header/ 00:34:33 yeah, you could make a bunch of copies of the header, and then use a larger repeat count on the alphabet 00:34:52 to fill the before-padding with header copies and after-padding with stray bits of alphabet 00:35:08 why a larger repeat count? 00:35:14 then you could remove the after-padding altogether, actually, because its only purpose is for somewhere to put the unused bits of alphabet 00:35:16 oh, no, I'm wrong 00:35:28 you can't generate fractional repeats with resplicate 00:35:31 so the after-padding needs to stay 00:35:50 i am referring to the initial padding 00:36:18 yep 00:36:25 this doesn't give a clear way to remove the final padding 00:36:33 and I'm tired 00:39:49 so may not make much sense 00:41:09 well it's a little subtle anyway, because the number of 523's in the initial padding seems to be odd, but i _think_ removing the 3 integers that generate them will turn the necessary padding even so the header can be used 00:41:40 what's interesting is if it's possible to prove resplicate TC even with no misaligned copies (i.e. any sequence of numbers that's copied with a copy count other than 0 must have existed in the original program, and must have all been copied into the program in one block) 00:42:12 I think you might be able to do it using two layers of escaping 00:44:07 oh wait my idea has trouble, removing those will make the number of integers per rule potentially odd 00:44:18 that's not a problem in this construction 00:44:24 it always knows where the IP is anyway 00:45:12 it's a problem for my "replace 523's by header" construction, because that requires that the length of total initial padding always be even 00:45:51 non-alphabet padding, that is 00:58:40 ais523: it seems hard to handle non-misaligned copies in a single pass through the queue 00:58:58 oerjan: yeah, I think I'd do two passes 00:59:24 which means every tag command becomes O(n) in the whole queue length 01:00:12 actually, the way I was going to do it avoids that issue, but leads to problems if you have an odd number of tag commands in the queue at any major iteration 01:00:14 ais523: I think games are a much bigger driver for GPUs and game technology than cryptocoins... 01:00:28 wat 01:00:38 kmc: games mostly don't care about GPGPU stuff, though, apart from stuff like PhysX 01:00:48 uh 01:00:52 I don't think that's true 01:01:07 although the line between GPGPU and just regular old graphics processing is pretty blurred nowadays 01:01:54 oerjan: you get each command to produced escaped output, then the entire queue unescapes at once into a new unescaped queue 01:02:09 the problem being that you then have to be able to skip over commands without knowing whether they're escaped or not 01:02:28 it might be possible to make escaped and unescaped commands the same length though 01:02:32 using padding 01:03:07 kmc: iunno, i mean i don't think Valve needs to care about OpenCL to not make half life 3 01:13:51 Shaders are a pretty common thing in games anymore. 01:14:05 Is it possible to download a SQLite database of chess games? 01:14:12 is there a typo in there pikhq? 01:14:24 fungots are a pretty common thing in games 01:14:24 kmc: not really. only looking at the new dilbert.com rejecting linux typing tutors out there for other languages too 01:14:49 Bike: I don't see a typo. 01:14:50 speaking of dilbert http://www.dilbert.com/2014-02-07/ 01:15:04 pikhq: i just didn't expect "anymore" without a negative 01:15:20 anyway doesn't GL handle shaders 01:15:27 maybe i should look at glsl again. as if i have any reason to 01:15:28 That's perfectly mundane English. 01:15:34 yeah, just unexpected. 01:15:37 Eh. *shrug* 01:16:00 hey did you all see this paper on x86 shellcode which looks like valid English text? http://www.cs.jhu.edu/~sam/ccs243-mason.pdf 01:16:17 when was it published? i read one in like, 2011 or some shit 01:16:26 pikhq: I don't consider pixel/vertex/geometry shaders to be GPGPU because they only really make sense for specific purposes in graphics rendering 01:16:31 what kind of thing goes into a shader anyway. i thought shade was fairly straightforward 01:16:36 2009. probably this one then 01:16:38 ais523: Fair enough. 01:16:39 i mean, insofar as any kind of optics is 01:16:41 as was seen when people tried to use them for non-graphics stuff 01:16:52 "so, not straightforward, bike" 01:16:56 Bike: "shader" has somehow become the name for "arbitrary program which a GPU runs for each pixel/vertex" 01:17:04 really. odd. 01:17:09 so what kinds of programs are there? 01:17:17 Bike: a shader (or one kind of shader, anyway) gets called for every pixel in a polygon and computes an arbitrary function for what the color should be at that pixel 01:17:23 presumably because traditionally what you're doing is loading a texture and applying lighting effects to it 01:17:34 which can quite sensibly be described as "shading" 01:17:34 it knows the position in 3D space, the normal at that point, it can access various textures, can do matrix math, etc. 01:17:38 i know a guy who works on turbulence, i really shouldn't be so blase about optics 01:17:39 but really you can do pretty much anything 01:17:46 well i mean. what do people actually do with it. 01:17:53 so the original use is to model all kinds of different surface textures 01:18:01 you can make something look bumpy without having a bunch of triangles for every bump 01:18:13 vertex shaders are cheap compared to pixel shaders 01:18:15 think i've heard of that... 01:18:21 because there are way more pixels onscreen than vertices 01:18:26 In emulator-land it's coming to be pretty popular for applying effects to the rendered frame. 01:18:36 yes, they're also great for "full-screen" video effects 01:18:45 colorspace conversion, blur, HDR rendering, whatever 01:19:34 Bike: a key part of doing fancy things with shaders is that you can render scenes to a texture 01:19:46 Like mirrors? 01:19:53 that's one application yeah 01:20:06 but more generally, it lets you capture the output of the gfx pipeline and use it later in another pipeline 01:20:11 And then you'd want to add effects if it's a dirty mirror or something 01:20:13 and that was key to the first GPGPU stuff too 01:20:34 I wrote a GPGPU "particle simulator" where every (r,g,b) pixel in a texture is actually an (x,y,z) coordinate of a particle 01:20:39 so the "texture" would just look like noise 01:20:48 but you have a shader that updates these positions and writes it to another "texture" 01:21:01 and another shader that draws the particles to the screen by reading from this "texture" 01:21:58 nasty 01:22:00 in web browsers you render groups of HTML elements to textures and then composite them together 01:22:08 this allows things like CSS transforms to happen smoothly 01:22:19 you don't re-render the element, you just alter its position, rotation, etc. in compositing 01:22:32 -!- newsham_ has joined. 01:22:58 in fact the compositor also renders into textures; it renders the page into a set of 512x512 tiles or so 01:23:05 which enables fast scrolling 01:23:14 how much video memory do GPUs normally have nowadays? 01:23:18 because you can keep some of the tiles off the edge of the screen around in memory 01:23:29 when I learned programming, you had to be careful not to waste it, but I imagine that isn't really an issue now 01:23:35 ais523: 1 to 8 gigs, depending on how cheap/not cheap it is. 01:23:39 on mobile browsers when you scroll off of what's rendered you see a grey or checkerboard area, which then fills in 01:23:49 err, yeah, that's not really an issue 01:23:57 Much less for integrated GPUs though. 01:24:11 You might end up having a carved-off 256MB chunk instead there. 01:24:33 I thought these days integrated GPUs (integrated to CPU, not motherboard) would use all available RAM, by cooperating with the OS 01:24:42 Sadly no. 01:24:45 and this also means CPU-GPU transfers can be really fast 01:24:47 aw 01:24:51 well that's how the PS4 works anyway ;P 01:24:55 -!- nys has joined. 01:25:04 it has a single chunk of GDDR5 for CPU and GPU 01:27:05 CPU-GPU transfers are normally really slow (by memory standards), but I've heard the PS4 is an exception to that 01:27:20 Yes, the PS4 doesn't have seperate memory. 01:27:44 I know that in SDL2, if you're planning to update a texture frequently, you have to warn the library in advance (although I'm not entirely sure what it changes in response to the warning) 01:29:44 uff, what's the printf directive to get a ulong out 01:29:58 %lu 01:30:00 -!- newsham has quit (*.net *.split). 01:30:02 thx 01:30:19 incidentally, you can write it as "long unsigned" even outside printf 01:30:23 which helps to remember the directive 01:30:43 cool 01:30:52 printf clearly can't use %ul because that would be ambiguous, so it went for the next-best option 01:31:08 I just remember that 'u' is a base "conversion specifier" and all modifiers come before the specifier 01:31:11 can you do "int unsigned" 01:31:19 Bike: yep 01:31:21 Pretty sure yes. 01:31:28 anyawy so my GPU has... 1949302784 bytes global memory 01:31:37 anyway* 01:33:51 and 32768 per unit. seems pretty beefy 01:37:44 -!- ais523 has quit. 01:48:54 so what does your program do Bike? 01:51:45 the test one just elementwise squares a vector 01:51:56 i was going to do matrix multiplication but i kept thinking of half-baked optimizations >_> 01:52:07 there are fancy algos for that aren't there 01:52:24 `run uname -a 01:52:25 Linux umlbox 3.13.0-umlbox #1 Wed Jan 29 12:56:45 UTC 2014 x86_64 GNU/Linux 01:52:41 yeah. i have an arxiv paper on mediocre-but-useful sparse matrix formats i've yet to read v_v 02:04:37 `cdecl declare x as pointer to array 5 of int 02:04:38 int (*x)[5] 02:04:43 `cdecl explain int (*x)[5] 02:04:43 declare x as pointer to array 5 of int 02:05:30 `cdecl explain int x[static 5] 02:05:31 syntax error 02:05:33 boo 02:06:03 hm HackEgo's repository browser is now not just out of date, but gone 02:06:20 yeah :/ 02:06:33 `help 02:06:34 Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`", or "`run " for full shell commands. "`fetch " downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert " can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/ 02:06:36 kmc: wait, can you declare an int[] like that, not as a parameter 02:07:00 no 02:07:08 foo.c:1:5: error: static or type qualifiers in non-parameter array declarator 02:07:43 pikhq: what does int x[volatile 5] mean? 02:09:06 does cdecl do things besides explain? 02:09:11 `cdecl help 02:09:12 ​ [] means optional; {} means 1 or more; <> means defined elsewhere \ commands are separated by ';' and newlines \ command: \ declare as \ cast into \ explain \ set or set options \ help, ? \ quit or exit \ english: \ function [( )] returning 02:09:32 the main ones are "define" and "explain" 02:09:45 there's also "cast" 02:09:53 `cdecl cast int into unsigned int 02:09:53 `cdecl cast x into pointer to array 5 of char 02:09:53 syntax error 02:09:53 ​(char (*)[5])x 02:09:54 kmc: Volatile array of 5 elements. 02:09:58 go me 02:10:18 oh, i misinterpreted 02:10:27 pikhq: so it's the same as volatile int x[5] ? 02:10:46 or does an array being volatile mean something different from all its elements being volatile? 02:10:57 `cdecl cast fucker[3] into pointer to function of void returning int 02:10:57 syntax error 02:11:01 I think in an argument it'd be equivalent to "int * volatile x". 02:11:04 `cdecl cast fucker[3] into unsigned int 02:11:04 syntax error 02:11:09 is there no hope? 02:11:11 Bike: I think it only takes a name for the first argument, not an expression 02:11:12 `cdecl cast fucker into unsigned int 02:11:13 ​(unsigned int)fucker 02:11:16 sux 02:11:22 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function of void returning int 02:11:23 syntax error 02:11:31 well they probably don't want to include an expression grammar as well 02:11:34 i guess that's probably not a good way to talk about functions 02:11:48 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function ( ) returning int 02:11:49 ​(int (*)())fucker 02:11:52 `cdecl explain int x[volatile 5] 02:11:53 syntax error 02:11:54 `cdecl cast fucker into pointer to function ( void ) returning int 02:11:54 ​(int (*)(void ))fucker 02:11:57 :( 02:12:12 without the void it's uh, it doesn't say anything about what the function takes, right? 02:12:21 pikhq: also, is there any use of "pointer to array" types? 02:12:35 such as int (*x)[5] 02:14:26 i can think of reasons you might write &x when x is an array, but are there reasons to declare such variables / parameters? 02:17:49 why did anyone think it was a good idea to write an MMO where you fight monsters by editing Clojure code using regexes? <-- and how come they're not in this channel? 02:20:10 kmc: i guess if you want a 2d array that's dynamic in the first dimension? 02:20:56 I'm not really sure of the uses for those types in general. 02:21:04 Kinda useful when passing around VLAs though. 02:21:25 int (*x)[y][z] for instance? 02:22:33 `gccrun int x[5]; int (*y)[5]; y = &x; printf("%p %p %p\n", x, &x, y); 02:22:34 0x7fbfcf6c60 0x7fbfcf6c60 0x7fbfcf6c60 02:23:17 VLAs considered harmful 02:28:20 `cdecl explain int (*x)[2][3] 02:28:21 declare x as pointer to array 2 of array 3 of int 02:29:10 -!- newsham_ has changed nick to newsham. 02:29:41 How well do you know about compiler optimizations? 02:30:57 medium well 02:31:06 -!- Phantom__Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:31:26 I want your opinions on some kind of Z-machine intermediate codes (for version 5, 7, and 8) which is partially described here: http://sprunge.us/PNXL and there is also seven "special branch targets" which are (number in parentheses indicates number of arguments): RESTART(0), RESTORED(0), RETURN(1), QUIT(0), TAILCALL(8), THROW(2), and UNDEFINED(0). 02:31:56 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 02:33:23 fungotspeed you! black emperor 02:33:23 kmc: i was waiting to hear if anyone is interested 02:33:50 kmc: What does it mean? 02:33:59 very little 02:36:28 `gccrun int x[5]; int (*y)[5]; y = &x; printf("%p %p %p %p\n", x, &x, y, &y); 02:36:29 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c60 0x7fbfd28c58 02:41:31 Do you understand my stuff about this compiler optimizations stuff? How could such optimization be improve? 02:42:04 motherfungot=redeemer 02:42:05 kmc: but did you try it, you'll just push it on. this individual processing of the url manually if they want to 02:42:11 zzo38: sorry, I don't have the time to look into it now 02:42:16 OK 02:42:43 The file linked is actually just two C enumerations 02:43:06 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:43:14 Although I can explain it is being done with basic blocks and register forwarding format 02:46:54 Which is a kind of single static assignment without phi nodes 02:47:47 Instead, each basic block takes zero or more arguments and cannot use registers from other basic blocks at all 02:49:29 I don't know if such a thing is ever done, but someone described as being combining single static assignment with continuation passing, and that it has some advantages and some disadvantages. 02:51:35 I can see how this is the case. 02:52:40 What can you see about this kind of idea? 02:54:33 lift your skinny fungots like antennas to heaven 02:54:33 kmc: are people here going to participate too? heh, do you? :) 02:55:50 What antenna do you mean, the TV antenna, the radio antenna, or the antennas on your body? (I only have the second one) 02:56:10 but do you have a large barge with a radio antenna on it that you can charge up and discharge? 02:56:25 No, I have no such things 02:56:30 you should get one 02:56:38 I have no use for such a thing 02:56:40 you could use it for high frequency active auroral research 02:56:54 if you are far north enough 02:59:25 How far is enough? 03:00:22 56° apparently: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sura_Ionospheric_Heating_Facility 03:02:17 i don't really understand http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_radiated_power 03:03:22 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 03:04:30 -!- CADD_ has joined. 03:04:52 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 03:29:20 I recorded my coordinates in Astrolog configuration file, so that is how I refer to and now I know, I am not quite far enough. 03:29:52 i see 03:29:57 what are your coördinates? 03:30:25 I don't want to say, but presumably you could figure out approximately by yourself, by using my IP address 03:32:21 last time i checked my IP address it geolocated to the wrong state. 03:33:22 i remember a system of coördinates which used short alphanumeric strings, which could be as long as the desired precision requires 03:33:30 but i don't remember what it's called 03:33:44 i think http://www.mapcode.com/ is similar but the thing I remember didn't require a country prefix 03:34:28 but i see there are "international mapcodes" too 03:34:55 * kmc is at California 9QF.7C 03:35:27 Does bash have command resembling the F8 command in Windows (which is, autocompletion based on command history)? If so, what is it? 03:36:20 control-r 03:36:33 kind of 03:37:28 creepercoin shoutingcoin wrongfulcoin waivercoin constipatingcoin aciditycoin 03:38:10 OK, I tried it now I can see what it does. 03:40:19 does it do what you wanted? 03:40:40 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 03:41:50 Kind of, like you said. 03:41:57 * pikhq is at Missouri RC.LNJ or so. 03:42:06 * pikhq also likes that those are relatively short. 03:47:19 `cdecl declare fungot as pointer to struct fungot 03:47:19 struct fungot *fungot 03:47:41 fungot: why no fungot 03:48:59 oh fungot won't respond to the same nick more than n times in a row, iirc 04:00:20 fungot, listen to fungotting kmc. 04:00:20 pikhq: must convince cow-orkers that i need to rewrite the section on folding enumerators in srfi 44, on the blocking variant. roll over laugh floor. 04:00:57 `cdecl declare fungot as pointer to struct fungot 04:00:57 kmc: so fiz's free? oh. and is not mentally stimulating! 04:00:57 struct fungot *fungot 04:01:06 but fungot knows not to listen to HackEgo 04:01:06 kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:16 i wish i had more access to academic papers 04:01:25 i wish i had access to a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:46 `addquote kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:01:46 kmc: please elaborate. clog's back. :_) ( eval x)) 04:01:48 1168) kmc: any chance one can have a box full of tnt to throw around 04:02:47 @ask ais523 do you know a place where I can find the ruleset for the current 'simplest' universal tag system for free? 04:02:47 Consider it noted. 04:02:54 * copumpkin just made some awesome chicken tenders 04:02:58 om nom nom 04:05:45 * quintopia specifies a copumpkin-complete penrose tiling 04:11:52 I should attempt to make SRFI-72-like hygiene in Racket 04:12:44 employees must wash hands before returning to evaluator 04:13:17 Misread that as elevator 04:15:36 also a good idea 04:17:52 @tell tswett regarding names that have their own names, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddocks'_Eyes#Naming 04:17:53 Consider it noted. 04:20:41 why is gcc using %rip-relative addressing even in a static binary? 04:20:56 perhaps it results in shorter instructions 04:29:59 seems to be the case here (by a grand total of one byte) 04:36:10 because the ModRM byte for an absolute address is followed by a SIB byte but the ModRM byte for a %rip relative address is not 04:36:18 goooooooooooooooood times 04:38:17 Return to Ravnica has a pretty island 04:38:18 http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?type=card&multiverseid=289316 04:44:36 `run echo 48c7042500004000ffffffff | xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:44:36 0000000000000000 48c7042500004000 mov qword [0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffffff 04:44:43 `run echo 48c70500004000ffffffff | xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:44:44 0000000000000000 48c70500004000ff mov qword [rip+0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffff 04:46:25 `run <<<48c70500004000ffffffff xxd -r -p | udcli -64 04:46:26 0000000000000000 48c70500004000ff mov qword [rip+0x400000], 0xffffffffffffffff \ -ffffff 04:57:10 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 05:03:56 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:10:58 -!- Bike has joined. 05:17:57 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 05:47:14 -!- Bike has joined. 05:48:35 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 05:55:06 TIL the mascot for GDB is an archerfish, known for their ability to shoot down bugs by spitting water 05:55:09 https://www.gnu.org/software/gdb/mascot/ 05:55:49 archerfish are cool as hell. you know they exploit fluid dynamics to give the spit enough momentum 05:55:53 how? 05:56:42 http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2013/11/archerfish-physics/ 05:56:52 pretty sure that links the paper 05:57:43 http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/wiredscience/2013/11/archerfish-spitting-2.gif pew pew 05:59:23 yeah, there it is http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0047867 06:00:58 wow 06:01:35 that kind of "oh damn that's pretty clever i didn't even know that was possible" thing kinda works for gdb too, eh 06:02:23 heh 06:04:47 -!- augur_ has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 06:16:34 -!- augur has joined. 06:17:15 kmc: does the linux kernel have garbage collection on some resources? i thought it did but i'm blanking 06:22:31 unix sockets 06:23:34 since you can send a socket through a socket and it might sit in a kernel buffer forever 06:24:38 -!- loogie has joined. 06:24:41 https://github.com/torvalds/linux/blob/v3.12/net/unix/garbage.c 06:25:08 probably there are lots of others http://livegrep.com/search/linux?q=garbage+collect 06:26:13 -!- loogie has left ("Leaving"). 06:26:20 thanks 06:27:49 man, look at all these 06:28:50 does the "mov is Turing-complete" paper address the issue that x86 isn't actually turing complete due to finite memory? 06:29:01 it doesn't seem to 06:29:10 generalized 86 06:31:29 hm, they're mostly filesystems 06:33:23 If the cache is disabled you could make a memory-mapped port to allow access to unbounded memory? 06:35:28 yeah but that's not very meaningful 06:35:39 because a finite state machine is also turing-complete if you give it a port to access unbounded memory 06:36:34 But do finite state machines have ports? 06:36:54 not exactly but you see what i'm getting at? 06:36:56 A CPU doesn't even have external memory if none is added to it! 06:37:14 But yes I can see what you are saying nevertheless. 06:37:18 hooray 06:37:22 fungot: do you see what i'm saying? 06:37:22 kmc: that is as direct as c programs " program"? the real one that i reported seems to be built over the regular scheme mode with slime48, or you can 06:38:31 zzo38: you don't talk to fungot do you? 06:39:08 kmc: I don't generally need to do so. 07:11:15 -!- samebchase has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 07:12:04 -!- samebchase has joined. 07:29:48 “Fan-made patches fix a notorious bug which results in the game always resetting to the easiest difficulty level [...]. This glitch was not noticed by MicroProse and was not fixed in the official patches, resulting in the very high difficulty of the sequel due to many complaints from veteran players who believed that the original game was still too easy even on seemingly higher levels.” 07:30:11 (... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-COM:_Terror_from_the_Deep#Reception ) 07:38:52 Maybe someone want a very high difficulty though. 08:25:44 -!- conehead has joined. 08:27:31 -!- oklopol has joined. 08:51:09 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 08:51:58 Nice fish drawings in that Wired article. 08:57:44 -!- Sgeo has joined. 09:02:45 -!- CADD_ has joined. 09:03:11 What episode of ST:TNG should I watch? 09:03:47 ^"Darkcoin uses an algorithm called X11. Hence name because it uses 11 different hashing algorithms to solve a block. The algorithms are Blake, BMW, Groestl, JH, Keccak, Skein, Luffa, Cubehash, Shavite, SIMD, and Echo." 09:04:04 Sgeo: Genesis 09:04:38 Bike: 11 times as secure 09:05:06 it's the first fully anonymous cryptocurrency 09:05:44 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 09:32:13 -!- nooodl has joined. 09:58:24 -!- conehead__ has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:00:11 -!- conehead__ has joined. 10:04:30 "class1.mid" 10:04:37 Totally a comprehensible name 10:04:57 class2.mid... now I'm confused, it doesn't sound like classical music 10:05:12 Well, the instruments don't sound classical, the melody kind of does 10:08:31 -!- impomatic has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 10:37:02 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 10:38:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:49:47 -!- shikhin has joined. 10:49:50 -!- shikhin has quit (Changing host). 10:49:50 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:17:00 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 11:20:01 I may be forced to try a Clozure CL implementation of Braintrust 11:22:38 SBCL won 11:22:41 -!- copumpkin has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:22:41 SBCL won't cut it 11:25:10 x_x 11:26:37 As far as I know, ccl:save-application doesn't die, whereas sb-ext:save-application-and-die does die 11:27:09 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:30:53 -!- yorick has joined. 11:46:37 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 12:07:59 I've put on simple wiki articles about the three functions defined by Smullyan. 12:08:46 Feel free to categorize them if you're good in categorizing obfu-languages. Also, prove stuff about them. Eg. I'd like to know whether it's algorithmically decidable whether a number is immortal in McCulloch's second machine. 12:13:14 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:15:14 "Please enjoy the movement in relaxedly bus." 12:15:35 (Trying to Google Translate here.) 12:15:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 12:15:38 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 12:20:03 "The women-only space-women-only vehicle, can I ride children (boy)?" 12:34:18 A pity. I thought that Data.Sequence would be a good fit for the McCulloch thing, but it lacks a constant time reversal operation ... 12:42:39 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Quit: Tritonio1). 13:03:41 -!- Slereah_ has changed nick to dn4bot. 13:03:56 -!- dn4bot has changed nick to Slereah. 13:04:56 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:17:04 Help I've been trying to actually write programs in Agda 13:20:28 -!- yubisaylozada has joined. 13:33:39 yubisaylozada: please don't /msg random people like that 13:37:13 -!- CADD_ has joined. 13:37:14 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 13:41:39 :P 13:42:32 .l. 13:42:36 -!- elliott_________ has quit (Changing host). 13:42:37 -!- elliott_________ has joined. 13:42:44 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott_________. 13:42:48 -!- elliott_________ has kicked yubisaylozada yubisaylozada. 13:42:50 -!- elliott_________ has set channel mode: -o elliott_________. 13:46:55 -!- nys has joined. 13:57:58 -!- ais523 has joined. 13:58:57 -!- MoALTz has joined. 14:20:27 elliott_________: _______HI!_______ 15:02:15 int-e: that should be no problem, you can define a better tree structure to implement this 15:25:55 -!- Sorella has joined. 15:34:35 -!- copumpkin has joined. 15:38:14 does the esolang wiki talk about non-deterministic but turing-complete languages like sokoban or super mario? 15:40:15 b_jonas: those aren't non-deterministic, the sense in which they're TC involves generalizing them to an infinite repeating pattern and treating it as a constraint-solving exercise 15:40:20 as in, the interp tries to find a solution 15:40:24 no nondeterminism there 15:41:27 quintopia: I don't know where to find a simple universal tag system; it might be possible to find Minsky's turing machine → tag system compiler, though, and I think there's a universal (2,19) turing machine floating around somewhere 15:41:35 -!- CADD_ has joined. 15:41:36 -!- CADD_ has quit (Client Quit). 15:42:00 also a (2,5) with a repeating initial condition (found by Stephen Wolfram, but his proof it's TC is wrong), and a (2,3) with a really complex initial condition (I think we all know about that one) 15:42:27 ais523: ok, maybe not turing-complete 15:42:50 it does have a category for nondeterministic languages 15:43:31 the useful distinctions for those are "can halt, even with probability 0" versus "never halts", and "halts with probability 1" versus "never halts" 15:43:36 but they are non-deterministic because the player has a choice of where to move 15:43:51 b_jonas: no, not when viewed as /languages/ 15:43:58 (well, usually) 15:44:09 from the language point of view, the player is the interp, the level is the program 15:44:14 and the interp's job is to act optimally 15:44:16 ok 15:44:32 perhaps by trying all possibilities in parallel 15:44:55 ais523: in my view, the level is the program, the video game console and the rom other than the level is the interpreter, and the player is the nondeterminism. 15:44:56 I guess it's nondeterministic in that sense 15:45:15 b_jonas: that's just taking input 15:45:46 ais523: right, these two views are why NP is defined in two ways: 15:46:02 I say it's defined by a nondeterministic turing machine, you're sayuing it's defined by a turing machien that takes hints 15:46:14 there are loads of definitions of NP 15:46:19 sure 15:46:35 anyway, do you think it would make sense if I created some entries with links for these? 15:46:39 on the esolang wiki 15:46:58 links and short descriptions 15:46:59 one I like involves a trusted P-time machine, and a potentially malicious TC oracle 15:47:27 the combination is guaranteed to say "false" if the statement is actually false (no matter what the oracle does), and "true" if the statement is true /and/ the oracle is trustworthy 15:47:45 ah, that reminds me of something I want to ask on the other channel 15:47:57 "the other channel"? 15:48:53 I think that if you're talking about TCness/PSPACE-completeness/whatever of computer games, the best option would just be one page listing all of them and linking to the existing results 15:48:57 but Wikipedia already has one of those 15:54:36 ais523: when you compiled that collatz system to resplicate, how long was it and what was the largest value? 15:55:06 quintopia: it's not very long at all 15:55:57 84 numbers per element in the initial queue, the largest number used is 678 16:08:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Quit: Leaving). 16:33:41 oh, you proved Resplicate turing-complete? nice 17:05:09 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:40:02 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 19:22:51 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 19:23:18 -!- augur has joined. 19:25:31 -!- augur_ has joined. 19:25:45 -!- augur has quit (Read error: No route to host). 19:35:50 -!- Tritonio has joined. 20:00:27 fungots fall on fungot falls 20:00:57 good afternoon, fungot 20:00:57 shachaf: why the switch, i got it all. what i don't understand what you were explaining it, but i 20:03:21 * int-e feels the same about fungot, sometimes. 20:03:21 int-e: i just want to know enough about it. 20:03:42 the dead fungot blues 20:03:42 kmc: esobot disappeared, i mean. eh. 20:08:04 good canadian fungot evening 20:08:04 FireFly: yeah i guess it supports everything but the lowest level 20:08:26 Yeah, canadians aren't the lowest of them all.. only nearly so 20:09:59 fungot♯ 20:10:00 kmc: concrete examples? :p i like pianos. and the premise may very well be an explicitly typed program. the second argument 20:12:30 "The back of the EP contains a diagram with instructions in Italian on how to make a molotov cocktail." 20:16:55 -!- kmc has set topic: fungots fall on fungot falls | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 20:21:26 -!- evalj has joined. 20:24:23 fungot: What are you talking about there? 20:24:24 fizzie: sneakers, isn't it? from lear to fnord or re-compile foo and bar 20:30:42 -!- tynyankoalex has joined. 20:37:52 fungot: from lear to leviathan? 20:37:52 olsner: gama chunks don't alter the rgb of each color and publish those as well. 20:39:05 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:39:55 fungot: Well, that's good. Imagine what would happen if they did. 20:39:55 fizzie: i think i've got this shell running irssi and it notifies me about new messages when i come to it. do it in 20:43:30 I didn't know fungot used irssi for IRCing 20:43:30 FireFly: i don't really 20:43:31 -!- tynyankoalex has quit (K-Lined). 20:43:35 o.h 20:43:43 s/\.h/h./ 20:46:19 I guess irssi's just for message notification. Sounds like you have an overly complicated setup there, fungot. 20:46:19 fizzie: would you let me have a look at 20:47:04 fungot: I think it's better to let fizzie take care of setting up your environment 20:47:04 FireFly: in my quantifier language im going to bed. i am not a sophisticated irc user ( anymore). 20:47:21 so self-deprecating 21:02:46 Oh, so that's what the F# stands for. 21:03:08 fungot alpaca infinity 21:03:08 monotone: go the hell to write generators with call/ ec is probably sufficient for writing one of those 21:30:37 -!- nys has quit (Quit: quit). 21:36:11 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 21:42:51 -!- evalj has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:58 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 22:16:07 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:16:07 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 22:17:01 -!- conehead has joined. 22:20:11 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:22:48 Is addition on floats associative? 22:23:43 Taneb: no 22:23:45 no 22:24:02 1 + -1 + 1e-40 22:24:03 for instance 22:24:31 -!- Phantom__Hoover has joined. 22:24:51 Thanks 22:25:25 you have some other rules, like ((u+v)-u)+((u+v)-((u+v)-u)) = u+v, which i'm sure is totally helpful 22:27:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:28:38 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 247 seconds). 22:29:00 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:32:49 Taneb when is your esolang thing again 22:32:51 Addition on floats is commutative though 22:33:04 Phantom__Hoover, the 20th 22:33:08 19:30 22:35:08 btw if anyone else can get to York on the 20th for 19:30, I'm gonna try to design an esolang live and you can laugh at my failure 22:36:22 -!- ais523 has quit. 22:45:55 Phantom__Hoover, are you actually coming to this 22:46:43 still deliberating 22:47:40 a train from here to york is nearly 3 hours, unfortunately 22:47:46 :( 22:48:50 livestream it or something! 22:50:14 -!- Tritonio has joined. 22:52:49 Phantom__Hoover: you need to get your own hoovercraft for these events 22:53:39 (it works the opposite of a hovercraft, naturally) 22:53:49 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:54:30 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:42 -!- tertu has joined. 23:07:16 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:07:23 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:10:13 Phantom__Hoover, with our current setup, livestreaming would be a tad difficult 23:15:29 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 23:25:20 oerjan: what, it suctions itself to the ground? 23:26:17 FireFly: no, to the air 23:26:31 oh. 23:30:51 Wasn't there one of them in Mario Kart DS? 23:44:35 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:48:06 quintopia: after a little testing, i have grave doubts about your 3 1 6 3 2 1 4 n conjecture for the numbers n=5,7,8,9 and 10. none of them seem to halt and 7,8 give me segmentation faults. (the rest all work, though.) 23:53:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Quit: Tritonio). 23:59:04 Some computer games are easily on their hardest difficulty level, including "Hocus Pocus"; I know there are some cheat code, is there a cheat code to turn off all bonus items, or to impose a time limit, or ammunition limit? 23:59:46 (The only cheat code I know is "FEELGOOD" to set back your health to 100%, but isn't good enough. Also, I cannot change the key config to letter keys!)