00:02:00 :( where is a norwegian when you need one <-- clearly now that boily has changed habits, you have inherited his "never be here at the same time as oerjan" curse hth 00:03:28 I had a curse? 00:03:41 quintopia: I can be Norwegian for you *wink wink* 00:03:52 well metasepia was never here when wanted to do ~metar before 00:03:57 oh. 00:04:00 and incidentally, still isn't. 00:04:04 >_>'... 00:04:08 * boily whistles innocently 00:04:23 (not that i've got a particular ~metar need at the moment) 00:04:30 *+i 00:05:02 the needs of the metar outweighs the needs of information. 00:05:14 quintopia: don't listen to boily, he'll serve you fake lutefisk made out of poutine! 00:05:32 -!- metasepia has joined. 00:05:40 hm... a lutefisk poutine... I'll pitch that Capital Idea at the next joint I visit. 00:05:43 ~metar EFHK 00:05:45 EFHK 132350Z 16010KT 9999 FEW013 BKN018 01/M02 Q1005 BECMG BKN013 00:05:48 ~metar ENVA 00:05:49 ENVA 132350Z 16018KT CAVOK 05/M04 Q0983 RMK WIND 670FT 19023KT 00:06:04 ~metar KATL 00:06:05 cry havock 00:06:17 hm. 00:06:21 * boily lightly mapoles his bot 00:06:36 i keep thinking KATL should refer to some secret lair inside the volcano. 00:06:38 KATL 132352Z 29008KT 10SM CLR 04/M03 A2984 RMK AO2 SLP113 T00441033 10072 20039 51014 00:06:41 ah! 00:07:05 oerjan: eh? which volcano? 00:07:14 katla, naturally 00:07:36 ~duck katla 00:07:36 an active volcano in southern Iceland, with an elevation of 970 m, covered by the southeastern part of the M–rdalsjökull Glacier. 00:08:11 i strongly doubt the original had an ndash in that position 00:08:14 M–rdalsjökull 00:08:47 really, Icelandic is making me kveill. 00:09:04 also the name of the dragon in the brothers lionheart 00:10:04 `learn M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 00:10:06 I knew that. 00:10:30 `? M–rdalsjökull 00:10:30 M–rdalsjökull is a draconic volcano harbouring the secret KATL base. 00:10:43 `run ls wisdom/'M–rdalsjökull' 00:10:44 ls: cannot access wisdom/M–rdalsjökull: No such file or directory 00:10:58 `run ls wisdom/'m–rdalsjökull' 00:10:59 wisdom/m–rdalsjökull 00:11:16 uhm. what is the alphabetic order of an “&”? 00:12:11 > [' '..'&'] 00:12:12 " !\"#$%&" 00:12:20 well it's a ligature for "et" of sorts, i think 00:13:07 I put it at the end of the “M” section. 00:16:31 -!- clog has joined. 00:16:35 there. merged and copied and pushed and everything else. 00:16:39 ais523: odds on resPairate being universal for m /exactly/ 2? <-- you are mean. i just about thought i could get it done for <= 2. 00:17:07 oerjan: hi. i need travel advice if you have any! 00:17:24 boily: i cannot guarantee there haven't been other wisdoms added 00:17:55 quintopia: don't travel, it's dangerous hth 00:18:12 oerjan: I'll scour and scry and search and sift through the logs for anything Wisdomian. 00:18:14 I will be in Flam,Getranger(sp?),Aalesund,Bergen,and Olden. If you know of anything that would be super-awesome to see in these places i'll thank you to tell me 00:18:34 quintopia: going overseas? adventuring in Deep Scandinavia? 00:18:50 boily: yessir 00:19:27 :D 00:19:57 `hg 00:19:58 Mercurial Distributed SCM \ \ basic commands: \ \ add add the specified files on the next commit \ annotate show changeset information by line for each file \ clone make a copy of an existing repository \ commit commit the specified files or all outstanding changes \ diff diff repository (or selected files) \ ex 00:20:31 oh hm it's hard to find the diff numbers without the repository browser. 00:21:07 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 00:21:12 I need to buy a non-crappy laptop before mid-April... 00:21:41 quintopia: i hear most foreigners think geiranger is super-awesome all by itself. you could go to the aquarium in bergen. 00:22:03 also bryggen, i suppose 00:22:23 i read something about bryggen. what's there? 00:22:25 * oerjan hasn't been to bergen since he was about 6. 00:22:58 my germanic-language-speaking brain sees "bergen" and just thinks "mountains" 00:23:49 quintopia: it's old architecture, one of the best preserved (perhaps the only? or maybe outside germany) hanseatic buildings 00:24:01 s/one/some/ 00:24:08 ah right the wharf? 00:24:11 yeah 00:24:21 yeah i think that's on the list of things to do already 00:24:42 i enjoyed Rostock, so I ranked it pretty high 00:25:00 yeah i guess it's pretty obligatory if you're on an organized tourist trip 00:25:27 it's not that organized. it's a cruise. we get like 8-12 hours to do whatever we want in each place 00:25:31 if you're in geiranger, i have a hunch you might go glacier climbing 00:25:49 glacier climbing...should i do that? 00:26:29 climb the glacier! show it who's boss! 00:26:42 quintopia: a guided tour, presumably. 00:26:56 i'll look into it 00:27:25 western norway has glaciers close to some of the fjords, anyway. 00:28:21 * oerjan went on such a trip once during a summer school university arrangement, but not at geiranger. 00:28:45 oerjan: oh, that's what the dragon's named after 00:28:54 * oerjan recalls he got a black toe from that trip, it took half a year or so to grow back out properly 00:29:03 toenail, that is 00:29:19 too bad it wasn't a black foot 00:29:27 the norwegian mr. deeds! 00:30:37 quintopia: gangrene is no laughing matter. also, i already regret looking it up on wikipedia. 00:30:44 * boily recalls he accidentally his toenail off one time. apparently Canadian toenails have the same growth rate as Norwegian ones. 00:31:10 i'm sure we've all done it at some point. mine grew back kinda crooked 00:33:47 I don't know which of my scars is the stupidest. it's either my knee with: a car being washed, a bush and a flowerbed; or my forehead with: a freezer, a furnace airduct and a sewing machine desk. 00:39:47 Terran Republic = Peacekeepers? 00:40:09 Certainly seem thematically similar 00:40:18 is this the kind of peace where it's peaceful because no one's alive 00:41:42 I think the peacekeepers/TR themselves would still be alive 00:42:02 I guess not quite as peaceful though 00:42:48 -!- tromp_ has joined. 00:49:11 -!- augur has joined. 00:50:31 * boily is stuck with http://youtu.be/j-3Fgrn7Rls in his ears ♪ 00:56:59 -!- clog has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 01:13:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:14:44 boily: try Q-Tips hth 01:15:16 i hear putting q-tips in your ears is dangerous. 01:16:06 they can go through into your brain 01:16:09 tru fax 01:17:39 His product, which he named "Baby Gays", [...] 01:19:52 oerjan: «Mise en garde: Pour nettoyer les oreilles, passer délicatement le cure-oreille sur la surface externe, en évitant de pénétrer dans le canal auditif. Garder hors de la portée des jeunes enfants.» 01:20:13 Phantom_Hoover: what if my brains are made of qtips? 01:21:22 what if qtips are made of brains! 01:22:16 boily, then you have too many brains 01:22:28 the consequences are too dire to dwell upon 01:23:00 "... I purposefully spill mercury ..." 01:23:06 ah, the good ol' feeling of insanity that this chännel exudes. 01:23:46 I found a program containing a comment "Let's get fired because I wrote this stupid comment" 01:24:16 (It is the only comment in the program) 01:24:31 I wonder how many Linux-using anti-swearing people know about the swears in comments in the Linux source 01:24:59 Sgeo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AK8yg5s2ps&list=PL786EBDC8D2B4CD1D 01:25:05 quintopia: speaking of brains, you should try smalahove when Norwaying. 01:25:20 boily: Is it good enough, or not good enough? Is it good enough once you put two dots over the "a" in "channel"? 01:25:39 i'm sure smalahove is one of the tricks we pull on foreigners. 01:25:39 oerjan: same person, but he says it in a differnet video 01:25:48 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGv_YVQHu7U 01:26:03 Towards the end 01:26:14 Sgeo: he also says he is very careful with the cleaning up 01:26:15 zzo38: it satisfies me. the ä is idiosyntactic. 01:34:09 ^source 01:34:09 https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 01:34:52 -!- clog has joined. 01:41:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:44:44 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 01:47:32 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NOCTURNAL NORWEGIAN CHICKEN). 01:47:35 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:48:14 -!- yorick has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:52:39 I seem to recall an esolang unspecified other than a couple of examples 01:53:21 ESME, CLEARLY 01:53:59 A more interesting looking one 01:54:11 oh there was also ais523's that he'd forgot how it worked 01:54:46 Yes, I think that was what I was thinking of 01:55:26 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Burn 01:56:04 Thank you 01:57:54 the talk page has a few more hints 01:58:02 as much as I can remember, at least 01:58:43 I think the specifications of my first ever esolang have been finally lost 01:58:51 Probably a good thing 01:59:17 It was a brainfuck second-derivative 01:59:29 brainfuck''? 01:59:42 "Ook!++" 01:59:53 that means it's a P fourth-derivative 02:00:14 oh wait, fifth 02:00:32 we need to start using P''' for BF 02:02:03 hmm, I just thought of a beautiful way to troll oerjan 02:02:12 create a language whose name starts with a letter that isn't present in the name 02:02:24 like, call it "zxcv" but define the name to start with "m" 02:03:29 Do you have a way to troll oerjan that doesn't involve trolling everyone in general 02:04:26 ais523: don't tempt me to move INTERCAL to between Commercial and Complode in the language list 02:04:53 oerjan: if you do, I won't object 02:05:17 I don't object as long as you are also keeping it filed under "INTERCAL" too 02:05:33 I'd actually forgotten that INTERCAL was an abbreviation until you mentioned that 02:05:48 s/INTERCAL/"INTERCAL"/ 02:06:12 Oh god, my live esolang creation is in SIX DAYS 02:07:32 on the sixth day, Taneb panicked. 02:07:55 On the seventh day, add REST 02:08:28 Taneb: do you have any ideas that you're going to use? or is the idea going to be worked out on the spot too? 02:08:33 also, is this spec or impl or both? 02:09:08 I have a few ideas but pretty vague, I'm gonna try to do some audience participation, too 02:09:15 Probably just a spec, impl if I have time 02:10:41 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 02:16:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/1xu2kv/silk_road_2_hacked_all_bitcoins_stolen/ 02:16:36 I have no idea what's actualyl going on 02:17:19 Sgeo: I think Silk Road 2 got hacked and all the Bitcoins were stolen 02:17:51 alternatively, the people adminning Silk Road 2 are pretending so. 02:18:18 at least that was what everyone said the last time this kind of thing happened. 02:19:45 oerjan: or maybe that's what they WANT you to think! wait... 02:41:24 It's a riddle wrapped in a mystery wrapped in a HMAC 02:42:18 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:43:30 hehe 02:45:12 i guess you can still call it a social hack 02:46:36 wrapped in a joint 02:49:41 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 02:55:52 `? tanebventions 02:55:52 Tanebventions include D-modules, Chu spaces, automatic squirrel feeders, the torus, Stephen Wolfram, Go, weetoflakes, and this sentence. 02:57:03 I haven't had authentic weetoflakes in ages 02:57:22 Actually I haven't been awake in time for breakfast in ages 03:15:38 -!- nisstyre has joined. 03:54:59 eating in your sleeping isn't usually recommended. 03:55:13 *-ing 03:55:16 also typing 03:58:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:07:34 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:08:13 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 04:08:14 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:18:25 -!- Frooxius has joined. 04:34:01 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:54:29 -!- augur has joined. 04:58:59 `coins 04:59:01 inforkcoin bowickethaxcoin intccoin undericoin doublecoin lyapasscoin cocccoin escutampercoin lessasscoin oracoin tellcoin iagcoin erixcoin reliucoin itnumecoin suxecoin hayrcoin udgedimacoin golfecoin thessimcoin 05:00:11 good coins 05:04:18 -!- shikhin has joined. 05:07:35 nice crash on gox 05:07:46 not as good as the btc-e crash the other day 05:08:03 "lessasscoin" is hilarious 05:08:08 all the other cryptocoins are ass 05:08:10 but not this one 05:08:13 at least, not as much 05:13:37 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 05:13:52 -!- HackEgo has joined. 05:14:20 damn I should have bought 05:14:23 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:14:59 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:16:57 i like "doublecoin", it does all the arithmetic using double precision floating point, wcpgw 05:17:08 (please tell me bitcoin doesn't do that) 05:17:15 it doesn't 05:17:19 it's all fixed point 05:17:25 good 05:17:40 that's why they're subdivisible to 10^-8 05:17:46 because that's the fixed point multiplier :P 05:17:52 yeah 05:18:00 the bitcoin ecosystem has a lot of clueless people in it now, but it seems like Satoshi and the other OG's knew what they were doing 05:18:11 except for the bug satoshi baked into bitcoin 05:18:12 at least in terms of cryptography & engineering if not economics ;P 05:18:24 hm? 05:18:29 I hear his original code was pretty shitty actually, engineering-wise 05:18:44 well you know bitcoin has a mini stack language in it, right? 05:18:52 yeah 05:19:07 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 05:19:18 one of the commands in that language accidentally pops one extra thing off teh stack 05:19:25 or something like that, haven't looked at it in a while 05:19:32 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 05:19:33 so any time you use it, you need to push some crap on 05:19:46 and that's pretty much unfixable without forking the whole shebang, so we're stuck with it forever 05:19:59 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:20:38 kind of offends the language geek in me 05:20:45 but hey, it still works :P 05:20:56 heh 05:20:58 oh well 05:21:34 OP_CHECKMULTISIG 05:21:36 that's the one 05:21:38 http://tidbit.co.in/ "Monetize without ads. Let your visitors help you mine Bitcoins." 05:21:58 oh yeah, that was some MIT folks 05:22:04 seems a tad impractical 05:22:08 -!- Tod-Autojoined has changed nick to TodPunk. 05:22:13 great so now whenever Chrome is chewing bizarre amounts of CPU i can blame it on this 05:23:51 "20K hashes/client" /second presumably? 05:24:10 I sure hope so 05:24:20 TWENTY THOUSAND HASHES, EVER 05:24:25 lol 05:24:40 it's kind of a miniscule amount, unfortunately 05:24:44 so a visitor is worth on the order of 1e-8 dollars per 10 minutes 05:24:50 there's a reason people don't CPU mine anymore 05:24:52 minus pool fees 05:24:54 yeah.... 05:25:05 come back with WebCL :) 05:25:05 they said they were looking into WebGL for GPU mining 05:25:06 and litecoin 05:25:09 ja 05:25:15 but even that isn't really going to make much money 05:25:20 there's a reason people don't GPU mine anymore :P 05:29:45 Do you believe in Cartesian Duality, Physicalism, Idealism, or Neutral Monism? My opinion is Neutral Monism. 05:35:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds). 05:37:53 copumpkin: Litecoin GPU mining at least still does something. 05:38:05 But... yeah 05:38:55 not to mention dogecoin 05:39:47 -!- Bike has joined. 05:40:24 zzo38: would it be fair to describe these respectively as: both mind and matter exist; only matter exists; only mind exists; only one kind of thing exists and it's neither matter nor mind 05:41:03 so webcl's purpose is getting me to mine bitcoins for strangers, huh 05:49:35 -!- augur has joined. 05:50:28 -!- augur_ has joined. 05:50:33 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:52:23 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:03:36 kmc: Almost. Instead of "exist", put "fundamental". 06:03:59 Others are therefore derivative rather than fundamental. 06:04:47 i see 06:05:05 in that case I would have to go with neutral monism, as well 06:05:25 i'm pretty sold on monism through direct personal experience 06:06:03 and it seems very unlikely that humans already understand the universe well enough that our current concepts of "matter" or "mind" accurately describe the one true fundamental thing 06:06:12 though if I had to pick one to be closer I would go with "matter" 06:08:55 While that is a valid reason, it isn't how I would do it. Still, of course I don't know either, but I can make opinions, based on what I know about physics and mathematics and stuff. 06:13:09 -!- password2_ has joined. 06:13:17 okay 06:13:20 what are your reasons? 06:14:24 (it seems significant that our concept of "matter" has changed rather drastically in the past handful of generations) 06:16:26 -!- nisstyre has joined. 06:16:29 * pikhq_ goes with physicalism 06:16:58 Some of my reasons are difficult to describe, but I can describe some of them. 06:18:41 For one thing, I am considering "matter" as the physical universe which includes matter, energy, subatomic particles, their direction of movement, spacetime. 06:19:58 (I think the way science goes at present, if we do discover the one true thing, it's more likely to get labeled as "matter" than "mind" but that seems like a cultural naming preference and nothing more) 06:20:49 kmc: Yes, that would be all it is perhaps, but I disagree. 06:21:30 -!- Koen1 has joined. 06:21:37 hello 06:23:09 hi 06:23:20 zzo38: with what do you disagree? 06:23:40 kmc: I disagree with that kind of naming scheme, but they can do what they want. 06:23:44 ok 06:24:03 (Both "matter" and "mind" are the wrong name for it.) 06:24:10 do you have a name for it? 06:24:44 "The truth is five, but men have only one name for it." 06:24:55 I think the "one true thing" is *really* mathematics, and not the universe. The universe is an instanteation of such thing, and it is possible for mathematical formulas to have multiple solutions, or might have no solutions, and therefore, nondeterminism, and furthermore, things that "work out as part of God's plan" or whatever you call that (I don't know a better way to describe it, hence the quote marks) 06:25:02 kmc: No, I don't 06:25:17 But I can think of kind of how it would work 06:26:10 but if the universe is an instantiation of mathematics, why this particular one? why these particular values for fundamental constants that could be different? 06:26:12 Mathematics is the real reality. 06:26:30 kmc: Because it is what is observed. 06:26:32 perhaps the most true model of the universe has no arbitrary constants, though 06:26:59 or perhaps other people in different universes with different values are wondering the same thing 06:27:02 Yes, that is possible, but, maybe it isn't the case; it leaves to see whether or not anyone can figure out whether or not it is possible. 06:28:34 But, it is also possible that both those things are possible! 06:36:22 I can also say that, for example, you can have a quantum state vector which has to be longer due to entangled with other things, it can include "mind", but not really; rather it is something else which includes a "mind", but "mind" also includes a "matter" and vice-versa too, kind of, similar to the Taijitu, almost. 06:37:40 it seems disappointing that the Taijitu is not recursive 06:38:32 I think I have seen a recursive version. 07:07:37 -!- shikhout has joined. 07:10:29 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 07:11:41 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:12:48 it seems disappointing that the paths in taijitu are not C^2 07:13:05 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 07:14:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:14:32 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nat%C3%BCrlich_gewachsenes_yin-yang-.jpg nature does it C^\infty like it should be; also i hope you're talking about this symbol. 07:17:24 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 07:19:34 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 07:21:17 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: I used to put messages here). 07:22:31 -!- Sellyme has joined. 07:29:48 I do mean the symbol having the similar shape like that wood 07:29:50 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 07:30:10 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 07:32:54 -!- conehead has joined. 07:41:54 Subject: ARE YOU DEAD OR ALIVE,FROM CENTRAL BANK OF NIGERIA 07:42:05 "Thank God that after all your surffer, it is now well with you, looking forward to make the transfer today." 07:42:19 After all that surffer, it is indeed good to get some compensation. 08:20:42 -!- ais523 has quit. 08:22:21 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 08:34:51 -!- Tritonio has joined. 08:51:12 what's a one true thing 09:04:07 -!- Tritonio1 has joined. 09:04:15 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:09:58 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:17:33 Bike: "One True is the fictional hegemonic software program that takes control of individual human minds and entire human societies in John Barnes' two Meme Wars novels Candle and The Sky So Big and Black; --" 09:17:44 oh 09:17:58 I don't think they were talking about that, though. 09:18:08 fungot: What is the One True Thing? 09:18:08 fizzie: unequipped to represent swearing in cartoons? or is it to work between sun systems and other such slime infested garbage. 09:30:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:43:59 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 09:53:30 -!- Koen1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 10:13:36 -!- Frooxius has joined. 10:19:45 -!- MoALTz has joined. 10:22:30 -!- Sorella has joined. 10:33:05 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:57:02 What is fungot's opinion about oracle 10:57:02 Jafet: so i'm " hqm". oh, this problem. 10:57:19 fungot seems to think it's a problem 10:57:19 Jafet: yes, as i can figure out how to use it too. after paying dues on this machine is, 11:43:06 -!- CADD has joined. 11:43:15 -!- CADD has quit (Client Quit). 11:48:53 -!- password2_ has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 11:59:20 -!- yorick has joined. 12:14:58 -!- Tritonio1 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 12:23:48 that's powerful. 12:23:59 fungot knows how to wield the One True Problem 12:23:59 FireFly: generate an executable. 12:24:06 naturally. 12:32:31 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 12:55:39 -!- Tritonio has joined. 13:17:38 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 13:28:47 -!- tertu3 has joined. 13:45:59 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 14:01:22 -!- cjw-17 has joined. 14:34:06 -!- shikhin has joined. 14:39:17 -!- `^_^v has joined. 14:47:11 -!- tromp_ has joined. 14:53:00 -!- utkarsh has quit (Changing host). 14:53:00 -!- utkarsh has joined. 14:57:54 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 15:00:15 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 15:15:04 -!- nooodl has joined. 15:15:54 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:22:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest_ has joined. 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:25:55 -!- AnotherTest_ has changed nick to AnotherTest. 15:33:25 -!- HackEgo has quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds). 15:34:40 -!- password2_ has joined. 15:34:58 -!- HackEgo has joined. 16:08:31 -!- nisstyre has joined. 16:12:35 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:24:16 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:30:52 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:32:11 -!- Slereahphone has joined. 16:34:58 -!- password2_ has changed nick to password2. 16:38:36 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:39:19 -!- Slereahphone has quit (Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi). 16:43:56 -!- shikhin has joined. 16:46:37 -!- luserdroog has joined. 16:47:16 join #libreoffice-dev 16:47:20 dammit 16:47:42 Why? 16:48:10 I'm too lazy to download the client, so I'm trying to use the webirc 16:48:22 I can't figure out how to join multiple channels 16:50:08 I don't know either 16:52:37 I am running into the problem that I don't know how to not write in Haskell any more 16:52:53 luserdroog, #channel1,#channel2 16:53:01 Separated by commas, no spaces 16:53:34 awesome, taneb. thanks. 16:53:40 Writing Haskell becomes a problem when you're actually writing Python 16:54:01 -!- luserdroog has quit (Quit: Page closed). 16:54:45 -!- luserdroog has joined. 16:54:56 maybe you can let djinn write the code for you 16:58:51 Taneb: You can write in multiple kind of programming languages though isn't it? 16:58:58 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:59:22 zzo38, Python does not support tail recursion 17:01:10 Why doesn't it? 17:01:31 In a few cases it could be possible, if implemented properly 17:01:37 <`^_^v> because guido says being able to inspect the stack is more important 17:02:25 -!- ski has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 17:07:26 Anoter way would be to implement explicit tail recursion 17:09:26 Taneb: I DON'T SEE THE PROBLEM 17:09:45 also, doesn't /join #channel work from the web client? 17:09:56 Yeah? 17:11:28 -!- nooodl has joined. 17:12:01 i'm just wondering why luserdroog didn't know about that 17:12:27 or if he did and it doesn't work 17:18:33 `quote guido 17:18:34 217) who is guido van rossum you could say he's a man who grew a beard but acquired none of the associated good properties 17:44:07 -!- cjw-17 has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:44:10 -!- ski has joined. 17:57:37 Are there drivers for connecting displays and keyboard and other devices using ethernet? 17:58:59 -!- tertu3 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 18:00:02 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:00:30 you have a keyboard with ethernet? 18:03:01 I don't have such a thing 18:03:28 I have a keyboard with PS/2 18:04:22 why do you want drivers then 18:05:55 So that it can be use in case I do have one. Also with file system device (possibly using Plan 9 protocol and/or FTP); that would be the most useful use of devices with ethernet 18:06:24 do they even exist? 18:07:07 I don't know. 18:07:35 doesn't look like it 18:12:40 zzo38: there are tools for transmitting i/o over ethernet etc. between computers, which, if you have enough computers, may accomplish the same! 18:17:32 -!- luserdroog has joined. 18:24:10 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:29:54 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:47:01 I don't think many (any?) of those are particularly Ethernet-specific, though. 18:51:07 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: Operation timed out). 19:01:47 -!- tertu3 has joined. 19:04:44 -!- shikhin has joined. 19:11:44 -!- Slereah__ has joined. 19:12:23 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood). 19:14:01 -!- Sellyme has joined. 19:14:39 -!- Slereah has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 19:37:46 -!- nooodl has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:47:29 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:08:23 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:10:14 -!- Albert has joined. 20:11:28 -!- Albert has left. 20:12:01 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 20:13:24 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:18:33 -!- luserdroog has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:21:47 -!- nooodl has joined. 20:27:51 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:28:58 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:29:32 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 20:29:32 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:29:35 -!- augur_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:30:02 -!- augur has joined. 20:31:18 -!- augur_ has joined. 20:31:40 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:38:36 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 20:42:06 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:45:38 http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.7087 I like how this abstract makes "the D-Wave machine" sound like an alien artifact discovered on the far side of the moon 20:46:50 It sounds like a vibrator 20:49:05 a quantum vibrator... 20:53:06 used to produce orgasmic superpositions 20:54:17 kmc: did you come from blog.cr.yp.to? 20:55:01 Don't watch porn, you'll collapse their wavefunctions! 20:57:26 'precise terminology', djb is funny. "The latest speed reports for fully homomorphic encryption are—let me use precise technical terminology here, since I'm a big fan of careful benchmarking—ludicrously slow, but without ideal lattices they would be utterly ludicrously slow." 20:57:31 * kmc mis-parses "come from" due to previous topic 20:57:35 yes, that's where I got the link 21:01:10 did the previous topic involve modern INTERCAL? 21:05:25 What about quantum INTERCAL 21:05:41 Is there any quantum esolang by the way? 21:05:44 "Quantum INTERCAL" is an awful name, it's basically just multithreading 21:05:57 and yeah, there are quite a few, but they all seem to misunderstand quantum computation 21:06:05 and wouldn't actually be any faster on a quantum computer 21:06:22 Well esolangs aren't really made for speed 21:06:28 quantum intercal would have to allow superpositions of DOs and DONTs. 21:06:36 I do have a degree in quantum physics 21:06:43 I should give it a try someday 21:07:08 int-e: DO ABSTAIN FROM (5) WHILE REINSTATING IT 21:07:13 at least, I think that's the syntax 21:07:25 it might be "WHILE LEAVING IT REINSTATED" 21:08:21 Maybe I could make like 21:08:27 some particle automaton machine 21:08:33 So I was right. I had not seen Quantum INTERCAL before, just the concurrent one. 21:08:34 And have a bunch of various states 21:08:55 Like electrons would be bits and photons would be tits (eheheh) 21:09:29 hmpf. "threaded", of course. 21:09:58 programmers misunderstanding quantum????? why i never 21:10:13 and I guess a bunch of detectors too 21:10:22 With some RGN to simulate le quantum 21:10:45 QC is so alluringly close to things that programmers find familiar, but it's actually completely weird and alien 21:10:54 which causes a lot of confusion 21:11:44 What do programmers mistake? 21:12:32 the normal assumption is that all the threads are separate and can communicate with the outside world 21:12:46 actual quantum computing is more like, you have all these threads, but only one of them, chosen at random, actually does anything 21:13:09 but this isn't the same as just running one thread chosen at random because they can interfere with each other, altering the probabilities of which one is chosen 21:13:19 yeah 21:13:34 Well technically it's more like having one thread all along 21:13:36 the idea that your computer's state is a 2^n-dimensional complex vector is pretty alien to traditional CS 21:13:45 And then you project part of it upon measurement 21:15:49 one thing I love about quantum computing is that you can never guarantee a useful answer 21:16:00 Well technically it's also true with actual computing 21:16:01 all you can do is increase, as far as possible, the probability that the answer is useful 21:16:05 Although error rates are very low 21:16:14 then you check it on a classical computer to see if it was right or not, if not, try again 21:16:15 I think like one bit in 10^12 21:22:48 but a lot of classical algorithms are like that too 21:23:21 Also of note 21:23:24 it's an open question whether classical computers can do more in polynomial time when algorithms are allowed to be probabilistic 21:23:29 There are actual articles about time travelling quantum computing 21:29:17 kmc: is that P=NP, or some other problem? 21:35:10 the class of probabilistic algorithms I had in mind is BPP (there are some others) 21:35:37 -!- cjw-17 has joined. 21:36:35 those are poly-time algorithms where you can decrease the error rate by a factor of 2^n by running it n times 21:38:43 BPP contains P, but it's not known whether NP contains BPP or the other way or neither 21:38:55 (which is super counterintuitive to me and I tend to remember it wrong) 21:42:59 so yeah the open question I refer to is P ?= BPP 21:43:09 Boner poop polynomial? 21:43:19 definitely 21:46:18 a world where BPP is bigger than NP would be pretty weird 21:52:27 -!- cjw-17 has left. 21:53:13 kmc: are there any problems known to be in BPP but not known to be in NP? 22:06:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:20:53 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:23:55 -!- sebbu has joined. 22:53:43 -!- nooga has joined. 23:02:47 ais523: I'm not sure. http://cstheory.stackexchange.com/questions/11425/problem-in-bpp-but-not-known-to-be-in-rp-or-co-rp seems relevant 23:03:19 (NP contains RP, and co-NP contains co-RP) 23:03:53 it's thought that BPP doesn't have any complete problems 23:12:52 classes like NP have an obvious complete problem, e.g. { (M,X,T) | nondet. tm M accepts X within polynomial time bound T } 23:14:33 every nondeterministic TM recognizes /some/ language in NP 23:14:45 but it's undecidable whether a nondeterministic TM recognizes a language in BPP 23:18:34 you can think of NP as a probabilistic class where false positives aren't allowed, but the probability of a false negative can be any number less than 1 (i.e. all but one path rejects) 23:19:53 kmc: that's similar to the oracle machine definition 23:22:48 which is? 23:25:29 Jeez, that was a strong gust of wind 23:26:47 -!- oerjan has joined. 23:27:19 kmc: imagine a P-time program that has a TC oracle to consult with, but the oracle might be untrustworthy; a problem's in NP if the P-time machine can solve it all the time with a trustworthy oracle, and with no false positives even with an untrustworthy oracle 23:28:11 -!- Koen1 has joined. 23:28:39 interesting 23:31:50 "TC" is unnecessarily precise though, anything between an NP-oracle and an "everything" oracle would work just as well i think... 23:32:06 oerjan: yeah, but you can't use an NP-oracle because that would be a recursive definition 23:32:16 right, but e.g. PSPACE 23:32:30 yeah, a PSPACE oracle would work just as well 23:32:43 btw, the oracle definition makes the difference between NP and co-NP pretty clear to me 23:32:56 -!- tromp_ has joined. 23:35:07 i would assume you've read that PSPACE itself is equivalent to another such setup, where the P-time program can use random dice throws (as long as the oracle cannot know those) 23:36:38 s/know/predict/, i guess 23:37:39 oerjan: yeah, those definitions seem less pure to me than the one for NP, though 23:38:18 black panther party with np oracle 23:39:08 hm i wonder if there's anything interesting if the oracle _could_ predict the dice throws 23:40:57 hello 23:41:21 hi Koen1 23:41:52 ais523: the difference between NP and co-NP used to be clear to me. all the classes in the PSPACE hierarchy were. it was all just swapping universals with existentials, or prepending an extra one of those 23:42:13 but now i've forgotten exactly what the proposition all those quantifiers get prepended to is 23:46:42 i'd think any unquantified boolean expression in variables... 23:47:01 yeah but then what comes before the expression? 23:47:09 i mean, before the quantifiers 23:47:17 ...nothing 23:47:35 checking whether the whole thing is true or false 23:47:42 so NP is just \exists x P(x) 23:47:58 and co-NP is \forall x P(x)? 23:48:05 yes, with x an arbritrary number of variables though 23:48:26 sure, a vector 23:49:18 well those are complete problems for the class 23:50:33 so then P=co-P=P(x)? 23:51:15 it's coming back :P 23:51:50 yeah 23:52:26 or wait 23:52:35 no, not quite, for P itself 23:52:47 you need a circuit then, not just an expression. 23:52:58 at least if you use LOGSPACE-reductions. 23:53:34 if you use P-reductions, you can of course use something weaker, even trivial. 23:54:27 i thought there was some restriction on the expression P? like it has to be DTM-evaluatable in polynomial time or something? 23:54:39 what's DTM 23:54:53 deterministic turing machine 23:55:20 well by expression i mean an _actual_ expression built up with variables and boolean connections like and, or, not 23:55:20 -!- boily has joined. 23:55:31 and that can be evaluated in LOGSPACE iirc 23:55:39 hoily 23:55:48 which is weaker than P 23:57:24 at least i recall thinking about evaluating expressions in LOGSPACE once, it's a little tricky if the expression tree is unbalanced 23:57:24 yeah, it's polynomial time as long as the expression is finite then, which all unquantified expressions in a finite number of variables are... 23:57:30 but still possible 23:58:18 quintopia: well the expression is part of the problem you are solving, which thus by convention has to be expressible as a finite string... 23:58:20 * quintopia hands oerjan a poly-time 3-SAT solver 23:58:28 ooh, shiny! 23:58:40 * oerjan goes to break some RSA 23:59:23 it's easy to build a poly-time SAT solver, it just needs to double the amount of energy / matter in use at each time step, so.... watch out 23:59:36 * oerjan reads the fine print: O(x^Ackermann(5,5))