←2014-02-22 2014-02-23 2014-02-24→ ↑2014 ↑all
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00:12:38 <oerjan> there clearly should be more std*s to choose among
00:14:15 <oerjan> shikhin: i suppose you could branch out to c header file names
00:17:11 <oerjan> <boily> nothing like washing the dishes to singe off a few skin layers on your fingers... <-- i see two options (1) use less boily water (2) use gloves
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00:22:30 <oerjan> quite splitty today. i am reading codu and tunes logs in parallel. tunes managed to pick up some of Sgeo's lines twice.
00:23:28 <oerjan> and then tunes leaves off for hours.
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00:28:16 <ski> la la la
00:32:47 <oerjan> mi mi mi
00:37:10 -!- Node_492 has joined.
00:37:15 <Node_492> ooooo
00:37:19 <Node_492> this channel is s o
00:37:21 <Node_492> esoteric
00:37:31 <int-e> `relcome Node_492
00:37:38 <Node_492> thank you!
00:37:43 <int-e> Ah. No bot.
00:37:48 <Node_492> hahaha
00:37:52 <Node_492> nope
00:38:18 <Node_492> interesting channel
00:38:26 <oerjan> he didn't mean you but our welcoming bot
00:38:42 <oerjan> hm...
00:38:46 <oerjan> ^welcome
00:38:47 <fungot> : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try ...
00:38:47 <Node_492> ohh
00:39:04 <Node_492> ohh it's esoteric programming language design...
00:39:26 <Node_492> I never really got into computer programming
00:39:28 <oerjan> oh right we tried putting a backup message on fungot but it's cutting the line too short
00:39:28 <fungot> oerjan: if so, call this command with that person's nick. :) hopefully i can get freedom by spending some extra ram i'm all for that
00:39:51 <oerjan> i guess it works for desperate times
00:40:00 <Node_492> wow
00:40:04 <int-e> Node_492: the bot would have said: "Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: <http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page>. (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)", but with way too many colors.
00:40:33 <Node_492> ah thank you
00:40:52 <Node_492> I thought this channel was going to be about esoteric discussion/texts
00:41:07 <int-e> oerjan: oh. I have to remember that fungot knows about this, too.
00:41:07 <fungot> int-e: there is a complete waste of time. i just used the manpage on linux), so that's 1+0, or 1 week the other way
00:41:38 <int-e> then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts. then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts.
00:41:42 <Taneb> It saddens me that it seems the only thing I care about enough to actually get into an argument about is whether redstone is TC or not
00:42:26 <oerjan> Taneb: hm you must be another one of my mirror twins.
00:42:42 <Taneb> oerjan, which side do you take
00:43:21 <oerjan> Taneb: i don't play minecraft, but doesn't redstone have bounded memory?
00:43:43 <Taneb> Yes, which nobody else seems to grasp
00:44:18 <Phantom__Hoover> i've gotten into tc arguments elsewhere lately
00:44:21 <Node_492> anybody want to teach me programming?
00:44:27 <Phantom__Hoover> except that time it was the human brain, which was just sad
00:44:28 * oerjan notices that fungot
00:44:28 <fungot> oerjan: i'm not talking about syntax now...) sends " fnord" this'?
00:44:28 <Node_492> I promise to be a great pupil
00:44:35 <oerjan> 's message was eerily relevant
00:44:40 <oerjan> (again)
00:44:40 <zzo38> Node_492: What programs, and what programming languages?
00:44:40 <Node_492> 33
00:44:50 <int-e> oerjan: the waste of time one?
00:44:50 <Phantom__Hoover> Node_492, ok your first lesson as a programmer
00:44:53 <Node_492> no idea I mean the most basic I suppose
00:45:05 <Node_492> I am interested in audio programs though
00:45:07 <Phantom__Hoover> your primary way of learning to program is to google "<topic> tutorial"
00:45:10 <Node_492> as I'm an audio engineer for my day job
00:45:18 <Node_492> and deal with audio plugin VSTs within DAWs
00:45:19 <Node_492> for computers
00:45:25 <Node_492> and could make a good amount of money off of those
00:45:43 <Phantom__Hoover> often these tutorials will be shit and inaccurate; your second lesson in a programmer is how to furiously defend whatever arbitrary preferences and habits you've now picked up
00:45:48 <int-e> Phantom__Hoover: wow. it works for malbolge. http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml
00:46:07 <Node_492> right but I'm on a mac, would learning to program really benefit my life?
00:46:21 <elliott> no
00:46:22 <Phantom__Hoover> i don't know, you're the one who wants to learn!
00:46:27 <Node_492> I mean
00:46:34 <elliott> programming is unpleasant and programmers moreso
00:46:36 <Phantom__Hoover> learn to program, be like elliott
00:46:39 <Node_492> can't I just learn some fun tricks in the terminal or something
00:46:42 <elliott> yes
00:47:03 <oerjan> int-e: no the one about "call this command with that person's nick", which is just what i forgot to do with ^welcome
00:47:04 <Node_492> programming doesn't have to be a drag does it?
00:47:12 <Phantom__Hoover> fun tricks in the terminal are the gateway drug to programming!
00:47:17 <Node_492> exactly
00:47:29 <oerjan> (mind you that would have just cut it off even more)
00:47:57 <Node_492> so what do you guys do for programming?
00:48:00 <Node_492> websites?
00:48:16 <zzo38> I program in many programming languages.
00:48:28 <Node_492> well
00:48:31 <Node_492> if I were to say
00:48:36 <oerjan> Node_492: your programming question seems to have brought out the channel's cynics :P
00:48:36 <zzo38> I can list some if you want
00:48:43 <Node_492> could you try to get a blockchain.info account code and password
00:48:53 <Node_492> would that be possible for you?
00:48:58 <Phantom__Hoover> what
00:49:07 <Phantom__Hoover> are you asking us to hack someone's bitcoin account
00:49:16 <zzo38> Node_492: I don't think so.
00:49:19 <Node_492> I'm asking if your programming skills coule do it
00:49:21 <Node_492> okay
00:49:29 <Node_492> so if I can't even get an account password and shit
00:49:43 <Node_492> then this programming thing is just pebble bits
00:49:46 <oerjan> Node_492: you seem to be confused about what programming is for
00:49:55 <Node_492> like would any of you guys be able to program for my computer to shut off
00:49:59 <Node_492> remotely from your location?
00:50:16 <Node_492> ??
00:50:18 <Phantom__Hoover> no
00:50:21 <zzo38> Node_492: What operating system do you use? In order to do that, I would not only need to know the operating system but your computer needs to run a program to listen for that command.
00:50:32 <Node_492> what?
00:50:34 <nortti> most probably not, if not for some social engineering
00:50:42 <Node_492> there's no way to get into my terminal and make it install itself?
00:50:51 <Phantom__Hoover> Node_492, you will literally die if you don't turn off your computer asap
00:50:57 <Node_492> man
00:50:59 <Node_492> so
00:51:02 <zzo38> Node_492: There *might* me.
00:51:07 <Node_492> meh
00:51:10 <zzo38> It depends how it is configured.
00:51:10 <Node_492> okay fine
00:51:12 <Node_492> so programming
00:51:19 <zzo38> But probably not.
00:51:29 <Node_492> say I want a program that picks up sound frequencies and tells me what key the tone is in
00:51:33 <Node_492> would any of you guys be able to do it
00:51:36 <Node_492> if I paid money
00:51:48 <zzo38> Node_492: Does your computer have a microphone?
00:51:57 <Node_492> well yes I have microphones
00:52:00 <Node_492> that connect to my computer
00:52:02 <zzo38> I think there probably are existing programs to do that anyways.
00:52:07 <Node_492> yeah I know
00:52:23 <Node_492> I'm just trying to see if I can do anything with programming
00:52:24 <zzo38> I probably could if I researched it enough
00:52:30 <Node_492> I see
00:52:39 <Node_492> so I mean...
00:52:55 <Node_492> programming is the #1 job market next to lawyers and engineers
00:53:07 <Node_492> it's just pretty interesting to me
00:53:16 <Node_492> I thought programming was a bit more powerful
00:53:24 <Node_492> or I thought hacking was easier
00:53:25 <Node_492> either or
00:53:41 <zzo38> I do not completely understand you. Powerful in what ways?
00:53:56 <int-e> Ooh, buzz-wordy. "Most modern spectrum analyzers are now almost exclusively Hybrid Superheterodyne-FFT based giving a significant improvement in sweep time."
00:54:00 <Node_492> like the best programmer in ze world
00:54:08 <int-e> Superheterodyne!
00:54:14 <Node_492> would they be able to shut off internet servers remotely
00:54:18 <Node_492> or anything cool like that?
00:54:30 <Node_492> or is that all fake and you actually would have to have physical access to the servers
00:54:30 <oerjan> that's not "cool" hth
00:54:31 <int-e> Node_492: it's not cool. they might, but where's the fun?
00:54:34 <zzo38> Node_492: It depends what they have access to.
00:54:46 <Node_492> what if they have access to the whereabouts of the secret princess
00:55:04 <zzo38> It isn't something I know anything about.
00:55:12 <Node_492> 33
00:55:54 <oerjan> Node_492: i don't care about hacking or other criminal activities, so i've never bothered to learn any more than vague theory about it. i'm sure many people here on the channel are the same.
00:56:08 <Node_492> alright so
00:56:08 <zzo38> Well, I read 2600.
00:56:16 <Node_492> what's something cool you could do with programming
00:56:26 <Node_492> I guess you could do stuff like automate the sprinkler times
00:56:27 <zzo38> I have no interest in committing any crimes, but the information can be used for other purposes too.
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00:56:36 <zzo38> Node_492: Yes, if it is connected to a sprinkler.
00:56:43 <Node_492> I'm just trying to understand it's usefulness
00:56:51 <zzo38> Otherwise you can't do it anymore than you can shut off a server remotely.
00:56:53 <elliott> have you ever used a computer?
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00:56:59 <Node_492> no
00:57:06 <int-e> interesting.
00:57:10 <Phantom__Hoover> are you from the past
00:57:11 <elliott> you're just trolling, right?
00:57:14 <Node_492> no
00:57:19 <Node_492> I'm only 16
00:57:21 <Node_492> I have a smartphone
00:57:27 <Node_492> as that's what my generation got
00:57:34 <int-e> it's a computer
00:57:38 <Node_492> fine
00:58:02 <zzo38> Smartphones aren't as good as a proper computer
00:58:02 <int-e> (a computing device, if you will. but for all intents and purposes, it's a universal machine running software, that is, programs.)
00:58:14 <zzo38> But yes it is a computer.
00:58:16 <nortti> well, not universal
00:58:17 <Phantom__Hoover> your version string reports OS X
00:58:23 <Phantom__Hoover> so you're definitely using a computer right now
00:58:26 <int-e> (the downside is that vendors will lock it down and make it hard to run your own software on.)
00:58:29 <Node_492> well I'm at the mac store
00:58:39 <Node_492> getting my phone fixed right now
00:58:42 <Node_492> I had weird issues
00:58:46 <Node_492> that would shut it down
00:58:58 <Node_492> so I thought maybe learning a bit of programming would help future events like that
00:59:15 <nortti> most probably not
00:59:20 <Phantom__Hoover> it will not
00:59:34 <Node_492> right
00:59:42 <Node_492> so say I learned all the programming in the world
00:59:51 <Node_492> would I theoretically be able to make my own smartphone OS
00:59:51 <int-e> It really doesn't. Even if you have a better understanding of what's going wrong, you'll still be locked out. (And generally you'll be unable to collect the necessary information, again for lack of access to the device.)
00:59:55 <Node_492> and Apps
01:00:03 <int-e> yes
01:00:11 <int-e> programmers write operating systems and apps.
01:00:18 <Node_492> wtf is CTCP version
01:00:28 <Node_492> and thanks int-e
01:00:28 <int-e> they're not found written on stone tablets
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01:01:10 <Node_492> wtf is requested ctcp version from node_492
01:01:14 <int-e> "CTCP" is "client-to-client protocol", a method for encoding queries to IRC clients on top of IRC messages.
01:01:29 <Node_492> so what's elliot trying to do...?
01:01:46 <int-e> somebody was interested in your IRC client software, and asked it about it. nothing happened, it's normal.
01:02:07 <Node_492> oh okay
01:02:09 <Node_492> anyway
01:02:21 <Node_492> I work as a audio forensics person
01:02:24 <int-e> it's like reading a name plate on a door bell.
01:02:35 <Node_492> and we have technology at our base that allows us to do some wicked stuff
01:02:41 <Node_492> I thought programmers were savvy on it
01:03:09 <Node_492> like I can take out certain frequencies/sounds from an audio source and isolate it
01:03:09 <nortti> some are
01:03:24 <int-e> some programmers are. programmers specialize. and of course some are better at what they are doing than others.
01:03:35 <Node_492> I see
01:04:45 <int-e> You'd implement some sort of band filter. I've never needed one, so I'd hit google with those keywords. (I know it can be done with FFT, but that's probably overkill in this case.)
01:05:44 <Node_492> no I already know how to do it
01:05:52 <Node_492> I have software specifically for audio forensics
01:05:59 <Node_492> I was just wondering how hard it is to make my own
01:06:09 <Phantom__Hoover> <Node_492> I work as a audio forensics person
01:06:09 <Node_492> I'd probably need 3 years of learning and a 10 man team
01:06:13 <Phantom__Hoover> and you're sixteen
01:06:19 <Node_492> so?
01:06:30 <Node_492> I intern at my friends studio
01:06:42 <Phantom__Hoover> mm
01:06:59 <Node_492> if you guys give me an audio file I can prove my skillz
01:08:30 <oerjan> Node_492: i'd think once you know basic programming, the hard part of audio forensics is learning the mathematical theory of sound waves.
01:08:50 <Node_492> I'm sure there's algorithms already though
01:09:01 <Node_492> as the funamentals of tone and frequency are all in textbooks
01:09:02 <oerjan> yes, those are of course based on the math.
01:09:28 <Node_492> well okay
01:09:33 <Node_492> in my field
01:09:45 <Node_492> we've been doing this new thing called circuitry emulation
01:09:52 <Node_492> where we take an old vintage analog piece of hardware
01:09:59 <Node_492> and we model it's behaviors
01:10:06 <Node_492> through convultion and many other means
01:10:12 <Node_492> and create a software version of the hardware
01:10:30 <int-e> (Hey, I was going to suggest that I could simulate an actual band pass filter circuit, then erased that remark.)
01:10:39 <Node_492> I think they do it by hardware that picks up the vintage gear's mathmatics
01:10:58 <Node_492> no no
01:11:03 <Node_492> I can do that with a simple equalizer
01:11:17 <Node_492> anyway, what I was getting at is
01:11:30 <Node_492> are there hardware/gear that helps programmers out
01:11:45 <Node_492> by say, figuring out equations for them and whatnot that they might need within their programming
01:11:50 <Node_492> besides a calculator I suppose
01:13:57 <int-e> I don't know, perhaps things like the signal processing toolbox for matlab (is there some open source software like that?)
01:14:11 <oerjan> my impression is _most_ programmers (i'm not actually a professional one) do web programming, which doesn't require much equations.
01:14:32 <oerjan> (and is also probably boring.)
01:16:07 <fizzie> Octave's got some of MATLAB's filter design bits implemented.
01:16:20 <fizzie> And I'm sure there are programmers in the world that have used Mathematica.
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01:16:40 <elliott> do apple stores really use what looks like residential ADSL for their internet connections?
01:17:06 <Node_492> sometimes
01:17:11 <Node_492> it's not an official mac store
01:17:12 <elliott> sometimes?
01:17:16 <elliott> ...
01:17:17 <Node_492> it's just a repair shop in the city
01:17:26 <int-e> I imagine that starting with something high-level that offers, say, filters that can be plugged together, and then exploring the internals of a filter and writing your own, will be far less frustrating than starting from the bottom, where anything more complex than a 'hello world!' will be a challenge initially.
01:17:39 <Node_492> anyway the matlabs filter design and signal processing is EXACTLY what I was looking for
01:17:41 <Node_492> thank you!!
01:17:42 <elliott> there are third-partyi Phone repair shops?
01:17:51 <Phantom__Hoover> it's true
01:18:04 <Phantom__Hoover> we don't have a mac store in edinburgh, we have some 3rd-party place
01:18:04 <oerjan> which don't void apple's warranty?
01:18:14 <Node_492> it might void it
01:18:18 <Node_492> not sure
01:18:33 <Sgeo> Hmm, not sure if it's coincidence that I managed to reconnect after adding chat.freenode.net:6667 and making the chat.freenode.net:7000 config use SSL
01:18:37 <fizzie> oerjan: If you keep quiet about it.
01:18:37 <Sgeo> The successful connection seems to have been to 6665, which it was alraedy trying to go to
01:18:39 <Sgeo> And SASL didn't seem like it was helping before
01:19:18 <fizzie> oerjan: "I don't know why there's a rude message scratched into the internal components of the phone, it must've been like that when it left the factory."
01:19:23 <int-e> Sgeo: a coincidence is likely, since chat.freenode.net resolves to several IP addresses.
01:19:57 <Node_492> do any of you guys use DAWs with VSTs/AUs?
01:20:02 <fizzie> It is true that freenode's 7000 is SSL-only, though.
01:20:15 <int-e> (hmm, but it could be worth checking whether some of the servers listen to non-6667 ports only)
01:20:16 <Node_492> it's all programming and probably one of the most popular up and coming sectors of programming
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01:21:54 <int-e> "digital audio workstation", "virtual studio technology", "audio unit". No.
01:22:32 <zzo38> I use Csound.
01:22:42 <zzo38> Not with VST, DAW, and AU, though.
01:22:42 <Taneb> God, I feel like crap
01:22:56 <Node_492> woah
01:23:01 <Sgeo> fizzie: but I don't seem to be connected to 7000
01:23:02 <Node_492> Csound looks interesting
01:23:05 <Node_492> I might download it
01:23:21 <Node_492> ooooooooo
01:23:35 <Node_492> so is Csound almost like a sound modulator that you can program?
01:23:39 <zzo38> I also wrote extensions to Csound, and a program CsoundMML to compile the score.
01:24:07 * oerjan guesses on "almost, except not almost"
01:24:36 <fizzie> There are quite a few "audio programming languages" around. Pure Data is another well-known one.
01:24:42 <Node_492> hmm
01:24:44 <fizzie> Well, for some values of "well known".
01:24:55 <fizzie> (In the "I've heard of it" sense.)
01:25:00 <Node_492> so say I get good at coding in one of these programs
01:25:02 <Node_492> then what?
01:25:20 <Node_492> I make programs for other people to use or something
01:25:23 <Node_492> ?
01:27:10 <fizzie> I'd guesstimate that most users of Csound/Pd are just doing music-y things for their own amusement.
01:27:52 <fizzie> And/or sound-related research, could be handy tools there too.
01:28:01 <Node_492> I see
01:28:36 <Node_492> so programming is difficult in my opinion without a GUI
01:28:39 <Node_492> I know it sounds retarded
01:28:43 <Node_492> but coming from the layman
01:29:01 <Node_492> programming things would be so much better if they had GUIs
01:29:19 <zzo38> I prefer it without a GUI, but that is due to preference
01:29:40 <Node_492> I just hate the whole
01:29:47 <Node_492> you can't undo/go back type thing
01:29:51 <Node_492> or maybe you can
01:30:29 <int-e> it's one of those 1-2-3 things: 1. learn programming. 2. ... 3. profit!
01:30:58 <Node_492> do any of you guys earn money from programming
01:30:58 <Node_492> ?
01:31:09 <Node_492> or rather make a living?
01:31:14 <int-e> In the meantime, programmers who know a bit of C can laught about https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhEuZKmCcAAcPAS.png
01:31:26 <fizzie> int-e: Now that I look at it, Octave-Forge's "signal" package seems to have grown to cover a lot more of MATLAB compared to what it used to.
01:31:26 <Node_492> and how do you even approach people for jobs
01:32:08 <Node_492> hey int-e, that's not a stab at me is it??
01:32:29 <int-e> companies have websites. say, https://www.apple.com/jobs/us/
01:32:35 <Phantom__Hoover> int-e, so that works out as a goto fail that will always be executed, right?
01:32:47 <int-e> Node_492: no.
01:32:50 <int-e> Phantom__Hoover: yes!
01:32:54 <Phantom__Hoover> haha
01:33:05 <fizzie> Phantom__Hoover: I'm sure Python people are already using this as a proof for their superiority.
01:33:42 <int-e> fizzie: interesting.
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01:35:09 <int-e> Node_492: The point of the 1-2-3 thing is really that there are many ways in which programming may come in handy. You can work as a programmer, you can do consulting, you can do something entirely different and automate a couple of data processing tasks. You can program for others, or you can make tools for yourself. It's hard to say which is the way to go.
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01:35:52 <fizzie> Can you get indentation-does-not-match-logic warnings out of any mainstream compiler and/or lint tool?
01:36:04 <Node_492> I see
01:36:26 <Node_492> I kinda want to get into it but it seems a bit too daunting
01:36:34 <fizzie> (I'm sure something like StyleCop would've just generally warned about the lack of braces or something.)
01:37:29 <fizzie> (Oh http://www.stylecop.com/docs/SA1503.html yes it would have.)
01:38:36 <Node_492> do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel
01:38:41 <int-e> Node_492: That is certainly true. Then again, learning anything in more than superficial detail is daunting.
01:38:51 <Node_492> yes of course
01:39:03 <Node_492> but the notion of programming on a black screen with no GUI
01:39:04 <Node_492> it's like
01:39:13 <Node_492> asking the hottest cheerleader out at school
01:39:17 <int-e> you don't have to do that.
01:39:25 <int-e> [my terminals are black on white ;-) ...]
01:39:30 <Node_492> ...
01:39:44 <Node_492> and so through programming in the terminal
01:39:48 <Node_492> you can create GUIs right?
01:39:52 <nortti> yes
01:40:05 <Node_492> what if I were to start programming and create a GUI for my own programming thing
01:40:07 <Node_492> so I can use it easier
01:40:30 <Node_492> buttons so I don't have to type out long commands
01:40:31 <Node_492> etc
01:40:32 <int-e> You can use existing guis.
01:40:39 <Node_492> ah
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01:44:11 <Node_492> also
01:44:16 <Node_492> last time I was in IIRC
01:44:24 <Node_492> I made fun of some guy
01:44:33 <Node_492> and he fucking throttled my internet connection for MONTHS
01:44:43 <Node_492> god that was fucking horrible
01:45:14 <Phantom__Hoover> what
01:45:47 <Node_492> ?
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01:54:30 <oerjan> <Node_492> do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel <-- the end of our welcoming message which got cut off mentions #esoteric on the dalnet network, which is sort of where we've agreed to point people who ask (we haven't found any better channel). although last i heard it was very quiet.
01:55:08 <shachaf> you may also be interested in roald dahl
01:55:38 <oerjan> i don
01:55:58 * oerjan remembers and swats shachaf -----###
01:56:02 <zzo38> Or just ask whatever questions you have here; maybe nobody knows, but they are recorded so you can look later
01:56:43 <Node_492> ah
01:56:54 <Node_492> nah I just wanted to have a discussion on stuff other than programming
01:57:02 <Node_492> I came onto IIRC to just socialize
01:57:04 <oerjan> zzo38: i'm not sure that's a very good idea.
01:57:10 <Node_492> but I forgot that it's mainly programmers talking to each other
01:57:17 <zzo38> Yes it is mainly programming
01:57:22 <zzo38> But we do discuss various things here.
01:57:28 <Node_492> yeah
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01:57:30 <zzo38> Probably nobody knows the answer though
01:57:37 <FreeFull> I once made a GUI for xmms2 in kommander
01:57:37 <zzo38> So better idea would be to look elsewhere
01:57:40 <Node_492> I don't have any questions really
01:57:41 <oerjan> Node_492: you are on the freenode IRC network. it is even more mainly programmers than other irc networks.
01:57:41 <FreeFull> The code was ugly
01:57:43 <int-e> Node_492: it's IRC, "Internet Relay Chat. "IIRC" is "if I remember correctly".
01:58:06 <Node_492> ...?
01:58:14 <zzo38> Yes, Freenode is mainly programming
01:58:21 <Node_492> wtf is the different between IRC and IIRC
01:58:25 <int-e> (There was a quote missing.)
01:58:34 <int-e> one is three letters. the other one has four.
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01:58:50 <Node_492> enlightening!
01:58:59 <shachaf> I,IRC
01:59:10 <int-e> > let (irc,iirc) = (0,1) in irc == iirc
01:59:13 <lambdabot> False
01:59:13 <oerjan> Node_492: irc is a way to chat. iirc is an abbreviation to use while chatting. hth
01:59:22 <Node_492> oh
01:59:27 <Node_492> okay
02:00:11 <int-e> oerjan: "hth" dnh, I suspect :)
02:00:36 <Node_492> so what's the irc everybody uses for discussion/socializing?
02:00:41 <Node_492> dalnet?
02:00:48 <zzo38> It depends what you want to discuss.
02:01:03 <Node_492> o
02:01:11 <Node_492> I'm just trying to find interesting stuff
02:01:18 <Node_492> and interesting people
02:01:26 <oerjan> int-e: imo you cannot be right hth
02:01:34 <zzo38> Well, there is interesting stuff in this channel, but I don't know if it interests you or not.
02:01:40 <Node_492> reddit/4chan and all those bought out travistock operations are becoming mind numbingly bad like the six o' clock news
02:02:05 <int-e> oerjan: that's sobering. I thought I had a chance of being right on occasion.
02:02:17 <oerjan> Node_492: reddit isn't so bad if you find a medium low size channel
02:02:27 <oerjan> it's the big ones that are truly crap
02:02:31 <Node_492> yeah but then it becomes so specialized
02:02:38 <Node_492> you can't talk about anything BUT that topic
02:02:42 <Node_492> and it becomes very vanilla
02:03:01 <Node_492> also I googled dalnet irc
02:03:07 <oerjan> yeah alas the best subreddits are the ones that are strictly on topic
02:03:07 <Node_492> but none of the links work
02:03:19 <oerjan> Node_492: irc.dal.net supposedly
02:03:25 <Node_492> yeah but that defeats the whole purpose of general discussion/socialization
02:03:44 <Node_492> sure it's cool for strict discussions
02:03:52 <Node_492> but not a great place to just chat
02:03:59 <zzo38> General discussion/socialization isn't the best idea; better to ask a specific question.
02:04:04 <Node_492> LOL
02:04:21 <oerjan> i've never looked much to places for general chat so i don't know how to find the good ones if they exist
02:04:32 <Node_492> the thing is
02:04:41 <Node_492> I've been looking for years since usernet
02:04:47 <Node_492> and they've all gotten shut down
02:05:04 <Node_492> or moved onto private invite only message boards
02:05:11 <Node_492> that become super elitist
02:05:17 <Node_492> private social boards
02:05:19 <Node_492> blah blah
02:05:48 <Node_492> all the plebs are left on reddit/facebook and the content from it is ruining my brain
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02:08:29 <Node_492> irc.dalnet is down
02:08:32 <oerjan> to me, reddit is the closest thing i know to usenet as it was
02:09:29 <zzo38> But are there NNTP servers for Reddit?
02:10:37 <oerjan> zzo38: that's not what i mean by "closest", i mean socially, not technically.
02:10:54 <Node_492> lol
02:10:56 <zzo38> OK
02:11:01 <Node_492> you guys are so caught up on the technical stuff
02:11:09 <Node_492> take it easy
02:11:19 <zzo38> Easy?
02:11:25 <Node_492> yeah
02:11:29 <Node_492> TAKE IT EASY
02:11:29 <oerjan> oh dear
02:11:40 <zzo38> That is impossible.
02:11:59 <Node_492> you have yet to understand the yin and yang
02:12:11 <Node_492> without balance you will be leading a life of self destruction
02:12:11 <zzo38> I know yin and yang a bit
02:12:27 <int-e> Sorry. We are really not into that sort of esoterics.
02:12:39 <oerjan> Node_492: curiously, zzo38 is probably the one on this channel who knows most about astrology, despite not believing in it.
02:12:43 <zzo38> I do know some things of yin and yang
02:12:50 <Node_492> LOL
02:12:58 <Node_492> how about astrology
02:13:02 <oerjan> and it's my fault too.
02:13:03 <Node_492> anybody want me to read them?
02:13:09 <zzo38> Read what?
02:13:14 <Node_492> natal charts!
02:13:36 <oerjan> (i once made a web page with a horoscope for a game i played, with a link to astrolog software)
02:13:36 <zzo38> Well, I don't have any intention for you to read any natal charts at least
02:13:40 <Node_492> anybody into the works of Carl Jung?
02:13:49 <zzo38> I have heard of Carl Jung.
02:13:58 <Node_492> great stuff would you agree?
02:13:58 <oerjan> Node_492: i used to be a little
02:14:17 <zzo38> I can't agree or disagree, since I haven't much other than heard of it.
02:14:28 <Node_492> ah I see
02:14:31 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, and I wanted to learn what all of the lines and symbols meant. Now I know.
02:14:33 <int-e> ~metar LOWI
02:14:34 <metasepia> LOWI 230150Z AUTO 27003KT 9999 OVC070 M01/M02 Q1023
02:14:56 <Node_492> zzo
02:15:02 <Node_492> do you want to read my natal chart for kicks?
02:15:08 <int-e> hmm, AUTO?
02:15:19 <Node_492> and tell me what you think
02:15:27 <zzo38> Node_492: If you want; I don't really care.
02:15:34 <Node_492> cool
02:15:40 <zzo38> If you want my opinion of it then of course that is the only way
02:15:43 <Node_492> hold on, I'll get the graph right now
02:15:45 <int-e> oh, boring. "fully automated report"
02:16:00 <zzo38> Now I know that "Node" is an ascending lunar node, meaning intersection point on the ecliptic with the Moon's orbit
02:16:31 <zzo38> And now I know what astrological signs mean, what house systems mean, and why it used a different symbol for Pluto than I was used to (I prefe the "PL" symbol though)
02:17:16 <zzo38> And where the names "Tropic of Cancer" and "Tropic of Capricorn" come from.
02:17:30 <zzo38> I didn't know that before, and due to something oerjan wrote, I was curious and now I learned.
02:18:10 <Node_492> ok
02:18:11 <Node_492> zzo
02:18:13 <Node_492> http://www.astro.com/tmpd/cbnlfile7a1elM-u1393121875/astro_w2gw_01_freenode492_3_hp.8276.28993.gif
02:18:17 <Node_492> let me know what you think
02:18:52 <oerjan> well for one thing, it blows your claim to be 16 hth
02:19:21 <Node_492> you think a 16 year old would know anything about carl jung?
02:19:38 <zzo38> oerjan: Not if it isn't for your birth.
02:19:46 <zzo38> But yes, you do make a good point.
02:19:49 <oerjan> no, none of us really believed you were 16 but i find it funny nevertheless
02:19:58 <Node_492> cool
02:20:35 <oerjan> (although i remember a couple of ridiculously smart 16 year olds on the channel from before, right elliott)
02:20:36 <zzo38> Well, I prefer the Astrolog format (which is formatted a bit differently), but this works too.
02:20:54 <zzo38> Anyways, Astrolog also calculates Julian day numbers.
02:21:03 <Node_492> ??
02:21:08 <Node_492> what does that mean
02:21:25 <int-e> oerjan: but knowing about usenet was too much. *g*
02:21:36 <oerjan> int-e: oh right i missed that clue
02:21:45 <elliott> actually, being 16 was one of the few things I believed that Node_492 said
02:21:50 <Node_492> LOL
02:22:00 <zzo38> Julian day numbers are a form of timestamp where the day begins at noon in Greenwich. The reason for that is so that the day number doesn't change while observing the stars.
02:22:04 <Node_492> don't even try to start discerning my fabrications
02:22:11 <Node_492> you're following my 33
02:22:24 <zzo38> But I do undertsand everything on that chart you linked to
02:22:29 <Node_492> right
02:22:32 <Node_492> what do you think of it?
02:22:39 <Node_492> personality wise
02:22:40 <Node_492> etc
02:23:09 <zzo38> I don't think it tells much personality wise. I am not an astrologer.
02:23:21 <Node_492> does it tell you anything?
02:23:39 <Node_492> not in the context of 'your moon is here'
02:23:47 <Node_492> but I mean what information can you extract from it?
02:23:59 <zzo38> Well, I can extract the phase of moon from it.
02:24:07 <Node_492> well it's in leo
02:24:25 <zzo38> Yes I can see that.
02:24:37 <zzo38> But the phase of moon is the difference in ecliptic longitude between the sun and moon.
02:24:55 <Node_492> ahh
02:24:56 <Node_492> I see
02:24:59 <zzo38> It looks to be almost a full moon.
02:25:07 <Node_492> what effect does that have?
02:25:27 <oerjan> btw those are a _lot_ of planets in capricorn.
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02:26:05 <Node_492> is that uncommon?
02:26:05 <zzo38> Well, maybe it has an effect on personality, but not any I know of. It certainly has effects on lighting conditions, tides, etc.
02:26:18 <Node_492> right
02:26:26 <zzo38> I can see five objects in Capricorn.
02:26:35 <Node_492> I thought that was common
02:26:50 <zzo38> I don't know how common it is. I asked similar questions actually.
02:26:56 <Node_492> lol
02:27:04 <Node_492> zzo are you a capricorn?
02:27:09 <oerjan> Node_492: well it would be common for anyone born around that time i guess
02:27:17 <Node_492> right oerjan
02:27:24 <Node_492> but I meant
02:27:30 <Node_492> for the general populace I suppose
02:27:42 <Node_492> anybody want me to read their charts?
02:27:58 <Node_492> I'm pretty good at it
02:28:08 <zzo38> Node_492: I don't make that information public, nor do I care much. When I have the horoscope on my screen, I usually use the one for the current moment/place, which is more useful to me.
02:28:35 <Node_492> could someone perhaps do ill with that information?
02:28:42 <Node_492> or you just don't want anybody to know
02:29:01 <zzo38> Node_492: I just don't want anybody to know. I don't really expect anyone can do ill with that information.
02:29:25 <Node_492> oh okay
02:29:41 <Node_492> so is there any impression from the chart?
02:29:47 <Node_492> I mean you haven't really told me anything...
02:30:46 <zzo38> If you want that, you would have to ask a different channel with astrologers. I don't believe in all that stuff, so I can only tell you what it means in terms of positions, and how they affect mundane matters, such as phase of moon and so on.
02:30:54 <zzo38> And equinoxes and solstices.
02:31:04 <zzo38> And rising and so on.
02:31:08 <zzo38> Things like that.
02:31:41 <Node_492> well do I have any significance in those aspects?
02:31:47 <Node_492> equinoxes/solstices etc
02:32:38 <zzo38> The equinoxes are when the Sun is at 0 Aries or 0 Libra. Solstices are when the Sun is at 0 Cancer or 0 Capricorn (these correspond to the tropics of the same names). I can see it isn't an equinox or solstice at the time charted.
02:32:49 <oerjan> the one thing i notice is your moon and sun are close to in opposition (not sure if they're in technical sense), which i vaguely recall means your emotions may be in conflict with your soul and true purpose hth
02:33:07 <Node_492> interesting
02:33:08 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, I noticed that too, which is why I said, it is almost a full moon.
02:33:17 <Node_492> capricorns are said to be 'contradictory'
02:33:21 <Node_492> so that makes perfect sense
02:33:22 <zzo38> That's what sun-moon opposition means to *me*, at least.
02:33:38 <Node_492> sun(father) and moon(mother)
02:34:01 <Node_492> well I appreciate the technical aspects of it
02:34:08 <int-e> zzo38: hmm, what's the orientation of the chart, do the sun and moon move counterclockwise?
02:34:13 <zzo38> People have used these astrological interpretations to make up features of fictional characters/stories, and that is a perfectly legitimate use of it; if it is your story, do it whatever way you want.
02:34:16 <zzo38> int-e: Yes.
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02:34:47 <zzo38> Other objects, since they don't orbit the Earth, sometimes go in the other direction.
02:35:06 <oerjan> perhaps with the other planets clustering close one could say that your emotions are in conflict with _several_ other aspects of your personality, which on the other hand fit together.
02:35:18 <int-e> zzo38: tsk. what did you just say about the sun? :)
02:35:19 <Node_492> right
02:35:40 <int-e> zzo38: but yes, that's why I asked about the sun and moon only.
02:35:51 <zzo38> int-e: I said the sun and moon move in the counterclockwise (which is positive) direction of the chart.
02:36:10 <zzo38> The "zero point" is the beginning of the "Aries" sign.
02:36:10 <int-e> zzo38: but the sun does not orbit Earth.
02:36:23 <int-e> zzo38: though it's hard to tell the difference.
02:36:26 <zzo38> int-e: Yes, but the Earth orbits Sun, and using relative positions it works out the same way.
02:37:21 <zzo38> I have used the horoscopes in my computer to calculate when is Chinese New Year, to calculate the exact times of equinoxes and solstices, to predict phases of moon and (to some degree) eclipses, and various things like that.
02:37:22 <Node_492> hmm
02:37:28 <int-e> zzo38: I know. I just can't help it, I must nitpick anyway.
02:37:29 <zzo38> They do a lot of things!
02:37:54 <Node_492> oerjan, anything else besides the contradictory thing?
02:37:59 <Node_492> I appreciate the feedback
02:38:01 <zzo38> int-e: Yes. I didn't actually say the Sun orbits the Earth; I only said that the other planets don't orbit the Earth.
02:38:17 <Node_492> I don't take it too seriously but symbolically I don't ignore it
02:39:25 <int-e> zzo38: you got me there. "sometimes" translates to "never" in the case of the sun.
02:39:50 <zzo38> int-e: Yes. But the Sun isn't a planet. Since the Earth orbits the Sun, it doesn't go backward.
02:42:24 <zzo38> Astrolog has many different charts it can generate. Such as, the standard horoscope chart, with the circle and the ecliptic longitude of objects on the circle (you can tell it to plot right ascension instead if you want), or the "ephemeris chart", which plots time on the vertical axis and ecliptic longitude (or right ascension) on the horizontal axis.
02:43:59 <zzo38> Some things can be seen better using the "harmonic factors", which means all ecliptic longitudes are multipled by a factor. This can be useful to see many things, on any chart type. For example if you use harmonic factor 2 in the ephemeris chart, you can see both new moons and full moons as lines crossing.
02:44:21 <oerjan> Node_492: i'm not really an astrologer so i don't remember clearly what the planets other than sun and moon represent. i notice jupiter is there with the moon opposing the others (except mars), i _think_ it has something to do with governing, being the king of the gods and all.
02:44:45 <oerjan> like the superego maybe?
02:44:50 <Node_492> i had my jupiter in cancer
02:44:51 <Node_492> which reads
02:45:03 <Node_492> in my booklet
02:45:04 <Node_492> JUPITER IN CANCER IN Cancer, Jupiter is in the house of his exaltation; and that sign being above all a symbol of pleasure, we may naturally expect that it will bring out the truly "jovial" qualities of the planet. This is undoubtedly the case; the native is good-humored, benevolent, and humane; the emotional nature and the imagination are strong; but the pleasantest qualities are more evident in the nativities of private persons than in
02:45:12 <zzo38> I am not an astrologer either. But I can tell you what interpretations are built into Astrolog, if you want this information.
02:45:40 <Node_492> yeah that's what I'm asking
02:45:41 <zzo38> Psychologically, you would ask, do you think that describes you or not? To what degree?
02:45:46 <oerjan> oh right i've forgot all about the astrological signs.
02:45:53 <zzo38> Certainly it can result in questions, if nothing else.
02:46:03 <oerjan> (well, nearly all)
02:46:03 <Node_492> no it certainly does
02:46:08 <zzo38> (questions to ask to yourself about your personality, that is)
02:46:13 <Node_492> I've been doing this for some time now
02:46:21 <Node_492> I just wanted to understand your guy's level of knowledge
02:46:30 <Node_492> like zzo's ability to read into different charts
02:46:36 <Node_492> I've never seen that
02:46:53 <Node_492> and I'm wondering why in the world would you take the time to learn all that
02:47:39 <int-e> on that level, leaving all the astrology aside, it's applied geometry.
02:47:50 <int-e> I can see a certain appeal to that :)
02:47:56 <Node_492> I guess
02:48:02 <Node_492> that seems so arbitrary to me
02:48:17 <zzo38> Well, we don't know much; this isn't an astrology IRC. If you want more you have to look elsewhere. But I can tell you only *objectively* what it means. I don't know about the subjective meanings of these things and am not much interested. Like they said, I don't believe in astrology either, but I understand enough to tell you whether or not you can actually tell your sun sign by your date (not time) of birth, and so on.
02:48:49 <Node_492> I hear ya
02:49:00 <Node_492> I'm just wondering why you even know all that
02:49:31 <int-e> osmosis
02:49:33 <zzo38> I have in fact advised someone on this, since they were curious. On the day he was born, the sun passed from one sign to another, so without knowing the time of birth I cannot tell you what your sun sign is. This information isn't useful to me, but it is nevertheless a true or false statement.
02:49:52 <Node_492> right
02:49:57 <zzo38> Node_492: Because I was curious what the symbols on the chart meant, and I studied it, so I learned.
02:50:08 <Node_492> right
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02:51:57 <Node_492> it's so cold in here
02:52:17 <zzo38> And allows to figure out things. I learn astronomy too, but also the astrological conventions. Both kinds of conventions are useful, actually; most astronomers don't know astrological conventions (causing them to dismiss astrology for invalid reasons), and have no use for them, but a few astronomers find them useful! (Note: I am neither an astrologer nor an astronomer.)
02:52:36 <Bike> so are we done with the dos now
02:52:54 <Node_492> yeah ddos is done
02:52:56 <oerjan> sorry Bike, dos is forever
02:53:02 <Bike> cool
02:53:11 <zzo38> A lot of people in this channel do somewhat unusual things though, especially myself.
02:53:14 <Node_492> funny zzo, I studied astronomy in college which is why I'm interested in it
02:53:30 <Node_492> but you seem to know the formula for more than what even my professors knew
02:53:38 <zzo38> However, we are mainly mathematically and scientifically minded.
02:53:55 <Node_492> don't ignore the right brain guys
02:53:59 <Bike> zzo38: do you think that anatomists dismiss haruspicy for invalid reasons
02:54:04 <zzo38> Node_492: The reason may be because, like I said, most astronomers don't know about astrological conventions.
02:54:05 <Node_492> or you'll creatively regret it for the rest of your dull life
02:54:06 <Node_492> :)
02:54:09 <zzo38> Bike: I don't know what that means.
02:54:18 <Node_492> what do you mean astrological conventions?
02:54:40 <zzo38> Node_492: I agree with you there; I do creative stuff too, and I do music too, but I am *mainly* mathematically/scientifically minded, not entirely.
02:55:13 <Node_492> awesome
02:55:14 <zzo38> Node_492: I mean things like house systems, ayanamsha, etc, which are all perfectly objective things.
02:55:24 <Node_492> wtf is ayanamsha
02:55:28 <Node_492> sounds like sanskrit
02:55:43 <zzo38> Ayanamsha is the Sanskrit word for the amount of the precession of equinoxes.
02:55:44 <Node_492> these are like astrological events right?
02:55:45 <Bike> haruspicy is telling the future using animal entrails.
02:55:55 <Node_492> LOL
02:56:02 <Node_492> bike is a good guy
02:56:09 <zzo38> Bike: Not something I knew, but still I cannot answer your question.
02:56:16 <Node_492> he's kidding
02:56:54 <Node_492> hey zzo you do music
02:56:58 <Node_492> do you use a DAW?
02:57:06 <zzo38> Node_492: I do music, but not using a DAW.
02:57:18 <Node_492> so you never record?
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02:57:39 <oerjan> Bike: i think haruspicy would be somehow analogous to astrology in this respect if haruspices [sp?] had somehow named the animal organs in a way similar to but subtly different than anatomists.
02:57:59 <oerjan> s/than/from/
02:58:01 <zzo38> I don't have any microphone on my computer; I generally use Music Macro Language to write a text file and then compile it.
02:58:15 <zzo38> It is different than how many people work, but is what is best way for me.
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02:58:31 <zzo38> I study a lot of things.
02:58:35 <Node_492> wait wtf
02:58:41 <Node_492> you turn a text file into music?
02:58:45 <zzo38> Node_492: Yes.
02:58:50 <Node_492> interdasting
02:59:24 <Node_492> do you play any instruments?
02:59:30 <zzo38> Yes, I can play piano.
02:59:33 <Node_492> !!
02:59:34 <Node_492> nice
02:59:35 <Node_492> me too
03:01:31 <Node_492> do any of you guys use bitcoin?
03:01:53 <int-e> `coins
03:02:01 <Node_492> i'm thinking of starting to accept it for my business but it's pretty lulz
03:02:02 <Node_492> y
03:02:44 <zzo38> I myself don't use bitcoin (maybe my computer is not fast enough to run it anyways)
03:03:02 <Node_492> I don't think anybodys computer is fast enough for mining these days
03:03:16 <Node_492> anyway also
03:03:29 <Node_492> I don't know if you guys remember but back in the day there were these folding services
03:03:37 <newsham> with all the cyberthefts, they should calling it "yoursing"
03:03:44 <Node_492> where you would have your computer run cancer cell tests
03:03:55 <Node_492> and put it in some database or something for university research
03:03:57 <zzo38> Something I have said before is that, a purpose of chiromancy (a.k.a. palmistry) is to know what all of the lines on your hand are called.
03:04:04 <Node_492> anyway, prime kinda started it
03:04:10 <newsham> seti at home, folding at home, rsa at home
03:04:21 <Node_492> but I was thinking of starting a coin that had some beneficial algorithm in it for research
03:04:33 <Node_492> for diseases or whatever
03:04:41 <Node_492> YES!
03:04:41 <zzo38> Node_492: Interesting idea. I wonder how possible it is.
03:04:43 <Node_492> seti at home
03:04:45 <Node_492> that's what it was
03:05:09 <Node_492> also
03:05:13 <newsham> mining = searching for coq proofs?
03:05:20 <Node_492> hash algorithm
03:05:31 <newsham> https://proofmarket.org/
03:05:58 <Node_492> ooooooooooo
03:06:04 <Node_492> g e n i u s
03:06:10 <Node_492> that's basically what I'm talking about
03:06:17 <Node_492> but it's not implemented into the program itself
03:07:01 <newsham> someone shoudl implement a system where people who are interested in making the world better can do it without worrying about food and shelter
03:07:17 <Node_492> yes
03:07:25 <Node_492> I mean essentially I think seti at home is pretty much it
03:07:32 <Node_492> I just thought if more people did it
03:07:35 <Node_492> it would be better
03:08:12 <Bike> imo rational drug discovery
03:09:11 <int-e> newsham: so how do inconsistencies affect that market? is there a rollback when one is found?
03:09:31 <zzo38> You can see a problem with the proofmarket system: https://proofmarket.org/problem/viewa/20 It allows you to prove false things.
03:09:41 <Node_492> LOL
03:09:45 <Node_492> the problem and solution
03:09:49 <Node_492> they really thought it out
03:10:09 <Bike> proof of work: donate $1000 in real money to the UNHCR
03:10:13 <Node_492> okay okay
03:10:28 <Node_492> what about a seti at home type thing but you get paid
03:10:32 <Node_492> so there's an incentive
03:10:58 <Node_492> I mean theoretically if all those asic mining rigs were helping solve cancer cell algorithms, we would be far better off than hashing useless code
03:11:05 <Node_492> and killing our computers in the process
03:12:04 <int-e> well all the asic miners *can* do is hashing. they wouldn't help with more complex computations.
03:12:38 <zzo38> Redefining False is like cheating though
03:13:06 <int-e> (in fact I'd argue that they are a good thing because they make mining on general purpose computers unattractive.)
03:13:25 <Bike> i assume the idea is that atleastyou'redoingsomethingcoin would result in asics that can test rotamers or w/e instead of hashing.
03:13:56 <Node_492> I see int-e
03:14:12 <oerjan> Node_492: bah clearly you should be rooting for tromp's new coin scheme
03:14:21 <Node_492> but I mean I'm sure they could easily make better asic chips specifically for something more beneficial like setiathome algorithms no problem
03:14:25 <int-e> cuckoo hmm.
03:14:31 <Node_492> ehhh
03:14:39 <Node_492> I mean prime is doing a similar concept
03:14:43 <Node_492> I'm not rooting for either really
03:14:54 <newsham> inte: beats me
03:15:07 <Node_492> I just think that collectively mining on a beneficial cause could be very important for the future of technology/civilization
03:15:13 <Bike> how is seti@home data certified?
03:15:27 <newsham> No False proofs in [ ] days!
03:15:41 <Node_492> i think some organization or university does it, the program was huge and backed/sponsored by many organizations
03:15:45 <int-e> Bike: I suppose jobs are sent out several times, and there is no money involved, lowering the incentive for cheating.
03:15:46 <oerjan> <zzo38> Redefining False is like cheating though <-- wanted to `addquote you but HackEgo isn't here
03:15:58 <Node_492> no it's not
03:16:04 <Bike> int-e: so that probably wouldn't work for pseudobitcoins.
03:16:08 <Node_492> it's like making sure your script has no bugs
03:16:48 <newsham> node; like most things dealing with money, its not very beneficial for society ;-)
03:17:03 <Node_492> right but is asic mining really beneficial for society?
03:17:06 <newsham> best way to be beneficial to society is to ignore money temporarily and work on benefiting society
03:17:41 <Bike> does asic mining exist enough to have any effect on society at all
03:17:48 <Node_492> ohh yeah
03:18:01 <Node_492> it's literally driven radeon GPU supply through the roof
03:18:08 <Node_492> it hasn't been like this since 2006
03:18:13 <zzo38> newsham: Yes you are correct
03:18:19 <Node_492> even before geforce came out with the 670s
03:18:23 <Bike> i don't think increasing GPU sales is much of an effect.
03:18:30 <Node_492> newsham you're absolutely right
03:18:37 <Node_492> but government jobs wouldn't get paid
03:18:48 <Node_492> and those oh so meaningless jobs will finally be truly
03:18:50 <Node_492> meaningless
03:18:54 <oerjan> i thought the point was asics were replacing gpus because gpus couldn't keep up either
03:19:05 <newsham> inte: sounds like that "false" guy just asked the wrong question
03:19:10 <Node_492> yeah but you can't use ASIC for gaming
03:19:11 <newsham> and someone found a "bug" in the question
03:19:12 <Node_492> only for mining
03:19:17 <Node_492> and more people game than mine
03:19:29 <shachaf> someone mentioned the other day that the bitcoin network as a whole does 2^64 hashes every ~10 minutes
03:19:34 <shachaf> that's a lot of hashing imo
03:19:36 <int-e> newsham: my remark was prompted by the news item on the homepage: "Now using coq8.4pl3, which is not known to be inconsistent."
03:20:08 <oerjan> or are you saying radeon GPU supply is through the roof because no one buys them any more
03:20:08 <newsham> yah that will be an interesting question if it is encountered.
03:20:25 <newsham> maybe copumpkin will steal all of the agda bounties with his next proof of false
03:20:48 <Bike> as someone indirectly paid by a government i suppose i should be offended
03:20:55 <Bike> but i can think to myself: at least i haven't invested in bitcoin
03:21:14 <Node_492> no they bought all the radeon GPUs out
03:21:39 <newsham> i dont find govt jobs useless.
03:21:58 <Node_492> you've clearly never met someone that's in social services for the state
03:22:02 <newsham> i personally like roads and police stations and fire stations and public schools and medicare and ...
03:22:16 <Node_492> who doesn't?
03:22:25 <Bike> you, apparently
03:22:26 <newsham> i like agencies that make sure food is not poisonous
03:22:30 <Node_492> lol
03:22:45 <newsham> and i am all for regulating financial crime
03:23:04 <Bike> anyway who wants to read a paper on modifying game physics engines to research tertiary DNA structure
03:23:17 <Node_492> I like living in a country where getting into an ambulance can cost you $10,000 dollars and was built by the bloods of the native americans
03:23:18 <Bike> i bet it's you, reading this message right now, personally
03:23:24 <Node_492> whome were raped and given diseases
03:23:30 <Node_492> to be rid of the land
03:23:33 <Node_492> so that we can install
03:23:37 <Node_492> imperialistically
03:23:39 <Bike> ASIC miners.
03:23:40 <Node_492> our police
03:23:41 <Node_492> medicare
03:23:43 <newsham> node: see, i dont think it woudl cost $10k if ambulences were run by the state
03:23:52 <newsham> the only thing more efficient than socialized medicine is what we have now
03:23:58 <newsham> err more expensive ;-)
03:24:03 <newsham> freudian slip?
03:24:03 <Node_492> I've had my co-worker faint and go to the ER room with an ambulance
03:24:13 <Node_492> she literally had to sell her house to pay the bill
03:24:19 <Node_492> and move her family to another county
03:24:19 <Bike> not true. i could charge you money for haruspicy to determine how you'll get sick.
03:24:32 <Node_492> fuck you bike your FNORDS are showing
03:24:45 <zzo38> Why are some of the Bitcoin script commands disabled?
03:24:50 <newsham> node: i dont see how you're connecting that to govt jobs
03:24:57 <Node_492> what?
03:25:00 <oerjan> fungot: what do you think about showing fnords?
03:25:00 <fungot> oerjan: let's do a crossover. aids is god's punishment for sinning"
03:25:03 <Node_492> that's how they're employed
03:25:14 <oerjan> fungot: i think you are not helping here.
03:25:15 <fungot> oerjan: usually you write all occurances of " scheme48". is he blippo? srfi-news?)
03:25:19 <Node_492> they're employed by the very government that enslaved african americans, kept them as sex slaves,
03:25:24 <Node_492> raped the native americans
03:25:26 <newsham> when you coworker fainted and went to the er room in the ambulence how much did you coworker pay to the govt?
03:25:29 <Node_492> and the south americans
03:25:32 <int-e> oerjan: it did fit perfectly into the discussion.
03:25:39 <int-e> oerjan: unfortunately
03:25:41 <Node_492> that's how we built the government that gives these people their jobs
03:25:50 <int-e> fungot: talk about math
03:25:50 <fungot> int-e: i just got that quote as a fortune. it's
03:26:04 <int-e> fungot: say it, say it, what is it?
03:26:04 <fungot> int-e: a fnord fnord one sector will be frustrating, too, except when i am
03:26:11 <Node_492> 33
03:26:29 <int-e> fungot: dronf.
03:26:30 <fungot> int-e: eval ( remove ' a mylist)... remove is not defined in the same way as fnord ( fnord
03:26:37 <Bike> Seeing a tragic lack of interest in rotating amino acid bonds, here.
03:26:49 <Node_492> go seti at home brah
03:26:59 <int-e> fungot: your context has been poisoned. can you show us some brainfuck?
03:26:59 <fungot> int-e: your code was going to submit in the paper can be used
03:27:14 <oerjan> int-e: word
03:29:06 <int-e> Bike: I am curious what the point is, is this an easier road towards exploiting GPU power than starting from scratch? I'm assuming that the actual physics are quite different.
03:29:18 <Bike> If you're not interested in physics engine modification I could link a few papers on artificial "bis-"amino acid polymers. I know a guy writing his own compiler for that shit
03:30:24 <copumpkin> newsham: already have!
03:30:59 <newsham> woot
03:31:13 <Bike> int-e: i think they need things that aren't in a lot of chemical situations, like steric hindrance (roughly, collision detection)
03:31:18 <Bike> chemical simulations
03:31:41 <Bike> int-e: the physics are pretty much the same with what they're doing, just rigid body dynamics. i don't think they're worrying about breaking bonds
03:31:51 <Bike> http://www.ploscompbiol.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pcbi.1003456 well anyway there you go
03:36:07 <zzo38> O, now I can see why some opcodes are disabled; how would they fix that then?
03:36:36 <Node_492> hax
03:36:52 <newsham> whats that game where you connect together pipes and in doing so you're searching for mathematical proofs (without knowing it)?
03:37:10 <Node_492> wtf
03:41:43 <newsham> http://www.cs.washington.edu/verigames/ <- there
03:42:20 <newsham> http://homes.cs.washington.edu/~mernst/pubs/verigames-ftfjp2012.pdf
03:42:32 <Node_492> don't some of you guys wish the internet went off tomorrow and didn't come back on for 3 months?
03:42:40 <Node_492> it'd be a nice break
03:44:07 <oerjan> no.
03:44:16 <Node_492> LOL
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03:53:48 <Node_492> dude wtf
03:53:51 <Node_492> I tried dalnet
03:53:59 <Node_492> that shit is like IRC for yahoo answers
03:54:02 <Bike> more like worstevernet, imo
03:54:07 <Node_492> seriously
03:54:21 <Node_492> I FEEL LIKE A FUCKING KIWI
03:54:30 <Node_492> AWKWARD AND FUZZY
03:54:43 <qwebirc4507> LOL
03:56:42 <Node_492> hey bike
03:56:45 <Node_492> is your name Jordan?
03:59:46 <Bike> Never.
04:02:43 <zzo38> I have done other way around, which is to make a sequent calculus that implements a computer game (such as sokoban).
04:03:24 <Node_492> ......
04:04:35 <Node_492> I just realized
04:04:40 <Node_492> if you fall into programming
04:04:47 <Node_492> you will stay there
04:04:51 <Node_492> forever
04:04:57 <Node_492> don't forget, you're here
04:04:58 <Node_492> forever
04:05:17 <Bike> nah.
04:05:25 <Node_492> I'll be gone tomorrow walking in the morning breeze between the trees
04:05:32 <Node_492> but you'll all need your coffee
04:05:36 <Bike> i have a book of interviews with famous programmers. one of them's a composer now. nother one works at a phone company selling dialup.
04:05:42 <oerjan> Node_492: i think you mean "Enjoy being locked in your matrix of solidity."
04:05:52 <Node_492> not really
04:06:12 <Bike> no, you do
04:06:14 <Node_492> just the perception of the computer screen being the only thing you focus on in your room becomes daunting
04:06:33 <oerjan> that's our wiki motto, borrowed from someone else who came to this channel looking for esoterica.
04:06:47 <Node_492> lol
04:06:55 <Node_492> it's pretty pessimistic
04:07:00 <Node_492> but true in some sense
04:07:03 <Node_492> false in some sense
04:07:09 <Node_492> and completely meaningless in another sense
04:07:42 <Node_492> I mean don't you guys think it's fucking crazy?
04:07:54 <Node_492> to just sit in a room for hours and just stare at a screen
04:08:03 <Node_492> I mean don't get me wrong I do it too
04:08:13 <Node_492> but at some point I think to myself 'holy shit, this is fucking insane'
04:08:24 <Node_492> and then go outside or travel to another city for a week or two
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04:08:58 <Node_492> and I don't have a smartphone so I'm not in the meta-matrix of solidity
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04:09:08 <Node_492> but boy has it gotten bad
04:10:04 <qwebirc4507> tis'
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05:19:08 <qwebirc4507> I am the real Node_492 hahaaa~
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08:18:38 <zzo38> I know this program contains several bad stuff that could be improved, but other than the obvious stuff, is there a more efficient algorithm if costtab is known? http://sprunge.us/EOKM
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08:31:21 <oerjan> quoting Greg Kuperberg from Aaronson's blog: "News flash: While D-Wave threads debate whether snow shoes count as ice skates, the Martinis group at Santa Barbara lands a quadruple axel. http://arxiv.org/abs/1402.4848"
08:33:49 <Bike> nice
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08:59:34 <oklopol> Node_492 was interesting
09:00:46 <oklopol> i mean usually trolls don't first feign interest for hours and only then start talking about matrices of solidity (or maybe days, i ran out of backlog)
09:03:16 <oerjan> oklopol: sorry but i brought up the matrices
09:03:32 <oklopol> yeah but i mean the topic
09:03:43 <oklopol> he just didn't know the technical term
09:04:00 <oerjan> also he made it quite clear when he arrived that he was looking for the other kind of esoterica.
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09:04:58 <oklopol> i see
09:05:01 <shachaf> `quote solidity
09:05:07 <oklopol> i missed his arrival
09:05:07 <shachaf> hmph
09:05:14 <oerjan> the bot has dissolved
09:05:29 <myname> 3 months without internet... would give me plenty of time to read all the mangas on my phone
09:05:29 <oklopol> i actually still have no idea what the other kind of esoterica actually is
09:05:59 <oerjan> myname: hey no fair saying that when `addquote isn't working
09:06:20 <zzo38> myname: What mangas do you have on your phone (and how many)?
09:06:28 <oerjan> oklopol: well astrology probably counts
09:06:45 <myname> zzo38: about 100, i don't know most of them yet :D
09:07:03 <zzo38> I like the Akagi manga
09:07:20 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, perhaps, maybe other divinations too?
09:07:23 <oerjan> as does jung, which was also mentioned
09:07:30 <myname> i'll add it
09:07:30 <oerjan> zzo38: sure
09:07:59 <zzo38> Akagi manga is difficult if you don't know Japanese mahjong though.
09:08:00 <oerjan> and alastair [sp?] crowley probably
09:08:14 <oklopol> i actually don't think a lack of internet would matter that much to me
09:08:17 <oerjan> aleister, apparently
09:08:25 <zzo38> oerjan: Yes, now I can understand what you mean.
09:09:13 <myname> obligatory stuff (imho) contains liar game, tower of god, the gamer, oyasumi punpun
09:09:36 <oklopol> pretty much all of my activities except this place can be done internet-less
09:09:58 <myname> zzo38: there is that crazy manga where people play mahjong against putin, hitler and the like
09:10:04 <myname> never read it, though
09:10:14 <zzo38> myname: Yes, I have heard of it, but never read it.
09:10:19 <oklopol> without a computer, i would be pretty much crippled
09:10:29 <myname> it's pretty famous for the super aryan
09:10:44 <oklopol> i don't even do math on paper
09:10:48 <oklopol> usually
09:10:53 <oerjan> gaspeth
09:10:56 <zzo38> I have a lot of books, pencil, paper, so I can work even without a computer, but far more slowly, and doing less things
09:11:42 <myname> http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Super+Aryan_5b4c58_4527514.jpg
09:11:45 * oerjan keeps a notebook in his jacket, but doesn't use it that often lately
09:11:50 <zzo38> I do math on paper, and various other things on paper
09:12:22 <zzo38> I often write unrelated stuff on the back of a paper which I have previously printed out from the computer
09:12:39 <zzo38> Sometimes even on the front
09:12:53 <myname> also, wth @ http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pItHDgP3A8g/T4kMyxhP3EI/AAAAAAAAAAs/rp62Rnb2O50/s1600/swastika%2Bhair.jpg
09:12:55 <zzo38> I like to reuse paper rather than waste it
09:13:01 <oklopol> zzo38: i usually do all research in my head, and then write the article directly to .tex
09:13:21 <oklopol> well a lot happens on a whiteboard actually
09:13:27 <myname> zzo38: i am really disappointed about the current price of the sony slate
09:13:44 <myname> i'd love to have one, but 98000 yen is ridiculous
09:14:23 <zzo38> Sometimes I do write things directly onto a TeX file but sometimes the things I write on the paper are never used elsewise.
09:14:35 <zzo38> And sometimes I am not accessing the computer, because I am elsewhere.
09:14:40 <myname> math is one of the main reasons i use paper
09:14:50 <oerjan> i used to write a lot more on paper before. i remember when i was little, my dad brought used computer printouts so i could write on the other side
09:15:47 <oerjan> (these were long reams of paper with holes on the side)
09:17:41 <oklopol> if i have to do a lot of calculations with numbers, i do use paper, like if i have to give homework sessions (i still don't know what the term for this is) for a linear algebra class
09:18:26 <oklopol> but for topology, measure theory, combinatorics of words, cellular automata, logic, automata theory, etc. you don't really need any external memory
09:20:17 <oklopol> (but maybe i just do very simple things)
09:22:26 <zzo38> Well, I do use it for math, but for other purposes too.
09:23:15 <myname> so... what the hell is a verigame and why didn't i know of that earlier?
09:24:07 <zzo38> For calculations with many numbers I will often use a TI-92 calculator, although sometimes also writing things on paper
09:24:13 <oklopol> btw Node's idea of doing cancercoin was actually pretty genius; also sort of obvious but i hadn't thought of it
09:24:17 <Taneb> oerjan, I remember those paper
09:24:22 <Taneb> Probably not the same paper
09:24:27 <Taneb> But the computer reams :)
09:25:46 <Taneb> It scares me that my parents met after half of my friends at uni were born
09:26:34 <oklopol> i used to make friends mostly with the >30 students
09:27:10 <Taneb> I probably made friends with over 30 students
09:27:17 <Taneb> Never counted
09:27:30 <oklopol> i meant people who are over 30 years old
09:27:45 <Taneb> :P
09:27:52 <oklopol> maybe you got that
09:27:56 <Taneb> I don't know if I know any
09:28:02 <Taneb> (yeah, I got that)
09:28:08 <oklopol> "<Taneb> It scares me that my parents met after half of my friends at uni were born"
09:28:31 <Taneb> My parents met in '92
09:28:33 <oklopol> doesn't that mean your friends are much older than you
09:28:39 <oerjan> i do not have proof that my parents didn't meet for the first time 9 months before i was born, but i recall no evidence against either.
09:29:05 <Taneb> oklopol, only by two or so years
09:29:09 <oklopol> i see
09:30:23 <oerjan> hm i may be tired i may be slipping into tmi mode
09:30:25 <oklopol> the oldies are usually alone, so we end up talking
09:30:54 <oklopol> also they usually have a life story, whereas people my age are like um i didn't know what to do so i ended up in math because i figured it's easy
09:31:18 <Taneb> I mostly made friends in the computer science society
09:31:44 <myname> oerjan: they do not have to meet 9 months before you were born
09:31:52 <myname> maybe your father sold semen
09:32:27 <oerjan> myname: i think the evidence is quite clearly against that version
09:32:58 <oerjan> like the fact they married.
09:33:11 <myname> Taneb: there are people outside the computer science society?
09:33:26 <Taneb> myname, yes, for instance the sci fi and fantasy society
09:33:34 <Taneb> Also the CS society here is tiny
09:33:39 <oklopol> i never went to any social thingies
09:33:43 <Taneb> Like, I wound up treasurer
09:33:50 <oklopol> during my studies
09:35:24 <Taneb> Also I probably ought to join the maths society
09:35:34 <Taneb> Or the sci fi and fantasy society, thinking about it
09:35:35 <myname> besides finishing assignments, talking to people is one of my main activity while studying
09:36:05 <Taneb> It's weird that I suddenly seem to have a social life
09:36:18 <myname> yeah :D
09:38:14 <Taneb> myname, are you a student?
09:38:23 <myname> i am
09:38:38 <Taneb> Where at?
09:38:51 <myname> computer science, what else? :p
09:39:18 <Taneb> I said where, not what
09:39:27 <myname> oh
09:39:32 <myname> fu berlin
09:39:37 <Taneb> :)
09:39:58 <Taneb> I'm at York
09:40:03 <Taneb> Doing Maths and Computer Science
09:40:15 <shachaf> which maths
09:40:18 <shachaf> all of them?
09:40:20 <myname> i have a pretty hard time finding a minor subject
09:40:50 <myname> in fact, it's practically the only thing (besides the bachelor thesis) that is left
09:40:54 <Taneb> shachaf, already it's not the applied stuff, and I seem to be heading to only half of that
09:41:07 <Taneb> myname, I'm on a joint course, it's 50/50 Maths/CS
09:41:21 <oklopol> course = ?
09:41:38 <myname> Taneb: math has way to much stuff i really don't want to learn
09:41:57 <oklopol> how many courses per year do you take
09:42:03 <Taneb> oklopol, 1 for your entire time at uni
09:42:06 <oklopol> right
09:42:21 <oklopol> because the word has two rather different meanings
09:42:38 <myname> i hate english
09:42:47 <Taneb> myname, I promised myself when I was eight years old that I'd do maths at uni, and so far I'm not regretting it
09:42:59 <oklopol> i promised myself i'd become a programmer when i was 5
09:43:01 <oklopol> :(
09:43:14 <myname> oklopol: you didn't know better
09:43:29 <oklopol> true
09:43:43 <oklopol> my father used to tell me i'd realize at some point that i want to do math or physics or something
09:43:44 <Taneb> When I was 5 I don't think I had much interest in programming
09:44:05 <oklopol> because his experience with programming was that it's mostly copying data from one spreadsheet to another
09:44:09 <oerjan> when i was 5 i don't think i had any idea what programming was
09:44:12 <myname> i started programming at 12 and sucked at that
09:44:20 <oklopol> i started at 6 or 7
09:44:26 <shachaf> when i was 5 i'm not sure i even existed
09:44:41 <Taneb> shachaf, did you want to be a philosopher
09:44:43 <oklopol> started making my own projects only at 9 or so though
09:45:06 <Taneb> I started programming when I was 12, sucked then, and I haven't actually got much better since
09:45:22 <myname> Taneb: :D
09:45:44 <myname> at least i don't do basic anymore
09:45:52 <Taneb> I think I'm probably gonna be a better computer scientist than programmer
09:46:31 <myname> that is what you want to do anyways
09:47:01 <myname> but i don't know how hard it is to actually work as a computer scientist without being a coding monkey first
09:47:38 <oklopol> ?
09:47:41 <oklopol> why would that be hard
09:48:22 <oklopol> if you want to be a computer scientist, just don't leave academia
09:48:47 <myname> i'd love to, but i am not sure if i'd be able to do that
09:49:38 <myname> they only have like a dozen or so people that may make a phd while working here
09:49:48 <oklopol> that may be, but i don't see why being a coding monkey for a while would help
09:50:02 <oklopol> maybe it will, dunno
09:52:01 <oklopol> i mean your time at the university is when you wow the professors and such and get funding for a phd, then rewow them with your thesis and publications
09:52:36 <oklopol> then you can become a coding monkey if you like, but i think you'll be judged by your phd time after that anyway, unless they already forgot about you in which case your situation is even worse
09:53:19 <oklopol> though i don't actually know whether it goes like that
09:54:09 <Bike> just slum out a phd in relativistic quantum chemistry and then you can do whatever you want. fact
09:54:10 <myname> future will show, but i think other people are more likely to get hired than i am
09:55:12 <zzo38> Do you know how to improve the algorithm I had? Other than the obvious stuff, I just wondered if, having the constant "costtab" table, can allow any improvements.
09:57:18 <Taneb> zzo38, what algorithm?
09:57:43 <zzo38> Taneb: http://sprunge.us/EOKM
09:58:03 <zzo38> I know there are some things that are just written badly and can be fixed, but those aren't what I mean.
09:58:07 <Taneb> Is that C?
09:58:26 <zzo38> Yes
09:59:11 <myname> "is that C" made me curious
09:59:55 <myname> what the hell is that supposed to do
10:00:31 <oerjan> oh is it that printing optimization for the famicom or whatever it was?
10:00:36 <zzo38> To calculate the best encoding of a text string, where the decoder can be in one of three states
10:00:47 <zzo38> oerjan: Not for the Famicom, for the Z-machine.
10:03:18 <zzo38> In each of the three possible states, there is a different cost for a character depending on what character it is as well as what state will be next.
10:03:45 <zzo38> That is why there ix a 3x3x3 table; it is for the from state, to state, and character's state.
10:04:22 <shachaf> so famicom means the same thing as NES?
10:04:29 <myname> yes
10:04:31 <zzo38> shachaf: It is a similar hardware.
10:04:41 <Bike> japanes
10:04:44 <zzo38> Similar enough that most software will work through an adapter.
10:05:08 <shachaf> software it counts
10:06:33 <zzo38> (Although sometimes the music won't play, due to an incompatibility in the cartridge header)
10:08:20 <zzo38> Do you understand what I am trying to make this algorithm do, now?
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10:12:13 <oerjan> i remember our previous discussion
10:12:26 <oerjan> enough to remember the general algorithm, at least
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10:15:35 <oerjan> C microoptimization isn't precisely a skill i trust myself on. would it be more efficient to expand the table with dummy 4th rows so you can use bit twiddling instead of multiplication?
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10:15:50 <zzo38> That is a good idea, yes.
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10:16:27 <zzo38> But my question was if, due to the costtab table being the way it is, there is a way to make the algorithm more efficient due to how its constant data is laid out.
10:17:11 <oerjan> in other words, whether there's some structure in costtab you can exploit?
10:18:03 <zzo38> Yes.
10:22:55 <oerjan> ok so the cost is 1 when all of *b, s1 and s2 are equal.
10:24:09 <zzo38> Yes.
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10:27:56 <zzo38> I am wondering if any of these things can be used to make the algorithm more efficient in any ways.
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10:31:16 <oerjan> ok the tricky thing is that there's sometimes a cheaper way to print a character than changing to its preferred state, printing it, then changing to the desired end state
10:31:32 <oerjan> which i'm sure you explained the last time
10:32:07 <zzo38> I have already taken that into account in the table, actually.
10:32:38 <oerjan> yes, i thought so, but i only remembered it when i was thinking about why the table cannot be split up that way again
10:32:53 <zzo38> The case is if you are in state 2 and want to stay in state 2, but the character's preferred state isn't state 2, you can use the ASCII escape instead of switching out and back in.
10:42:57 <zzo38> The "Move everything to left" can probably be avoided by combining it with the next step, probably making it faster.
10:43:23 <zzo38> But your idea to avoid multiplication is a good one too, and I will do that.
10:44:13 <oerjan> i doubt the form of costtab has anything to exploit though
10:44:56 <zzo38> Ah, OK, then
10:45:41 <zzo38> However I also meant even if the costtab is still there, but maybe there still isn't anything to exploit.
10:58:01 <zzo38> Do you like SQLite?
11:02:45 <oerjan> hm i don't like your copying of the best[i] elements back and forth, each of them contains an array the length of the string doesn't it
11:03:00 <oerjan> sorry, bests[i]
11:03:45 <zzo38> Yes like I said it could be greatly improved
11:03:47 <oerjan> i vaguely think i discussed last time how to avoid that
11:04:11 <zzo38> There are several bad things about this program, which can be improved
11:04:18 <zzo38> That is one of them
11:06:03 <zzo38> Some things though, just cannot see right from this part of the code, since you cannot see that some variables are declared unsigned.
11:07:15 <oerjan> well i assumed next[] is unsigned, since that's the only way assigning -1 to it and expecting it to be larger than what you compare with, will work
11:07:46 <zzo38> Yes, those are valid assumptions.
11:08:43 <zzo38> The program does in fact work. But I am completely rewriting it in much better way, so for one thing, all of the in_row are precalculated (which is possible here)
11:09:02 <oerjan> this is a little tricky btw, the idea i have for avoid copying those arrays clashes with how you use *b values >= 3 for special fast characters
11:09:10 <oerjan> *for avoiding
11:10:11 <zzo38> Yes, maybe there is a better way to deal with the fast characters
11:10:59 <zzo38> Although I am not sure what it is
11:13:28 <oerjan> without those fast characters, you could change only bests[i].data[n] and not the whole of bests[i] at each step.
11:13:51 <oerjan> because the data[n] tells you which i was used in the previous step
11:15:02 <oerjan> in other words, let bests[i].data[n] store the s1 that is best at step n-1 for getting to s2==i at step n.
11:20:31 <zzo38> Possibly the fast characters could be completely disjoined from the rest of the algorithm, and added back in later (during actual encoding; it doesn't need to know anything about the rest of the algorithm). (The exception is the (ir[0] && ir[1] && ir[2]) part, but such thing isn't really ever going to happen, so it can be removed.)
11:21:27 <oerjan> oh wait hm i realized, you don't need to change that part anyway
11:22:05 <oerjan> you can keep the fast characters as they are, they're just a special code for s1 == s2
11:22:34 <oerjan> iiuc
11:22:35 <zzo38> Yes, they do imply that
11:23:02 <oerjan> so they still contain enough information to tell what the previous state in the chain is, which is all you need.
11:23:52 <zzo38> And for the cost calculating algorithm, the fast characters are irrelevant and the algorithm can act as if they weren't there.
11:24:04 <oerjan> right
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11:30:42 <zzo38> And you are right that it ought not to copy entire arrays during every step; it only need to copy up to how much is already written, anyways. Especially since I will fix it not to use a fixed buffer length.
11:32:14 <oerjan> well my suggestion is not to copy anything other than the step currently being calculated.
11:32:55 <zzo38> Ah, OK
11:32:56 <oerjan> this will require a final unwinding step to calculate the array to return, though.
11:33:27 <oerjan> but it should be much more efficient than copying much of the array every time
11:34:04 <zzo38> Yes, clearly it will be
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11:38:05 <zzo38> However it is copying possibly a different array, due to which cost is best being changed
11:38:14 <zzo38> Or maybe I just got confused
11:39:43 <oerjan> well i don't know what different array you mean
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11:41:10 <zzo38> One of the other bests[i].data arrays, for a different "i"
11:41:40 <oerjan> well i think you shouldn't copy those arrays as a whole anywhere
11:41:55 <oerjan> except possibly for returning the final result
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11:42:53 <zzo38> O, that is what you mean by, a final unwinding step.
11:43:08 <zzo38> Now I can understand somewhat better what you mean, than I previously did.
11:43:29 <oerjan> good
11:43:36 <zzo38> OK
11:44:40 <zzo38> Right now I am a bit tired though
11:44:47 <zzo38> But maybe tomorrow I understand better.
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11:46:21 <int-e> The Node_492 experiment is gone, will it be back?
11:46:54 <zzo38> int-e: I think that only remains to be seen, whether or not it is.
11:47:06 <oerjan> i'm also tired, i'm staying awake extra long to adjust my sleeping cycle to a more convenient phase
11:47:41 <int-e> (I'd call it a troll except that I think for the most part it failed quite miserably. People didn't get riled up the way one might expect.)
11:48:03 <oerjan> int-e: we had to do some fungot therapy though
11:48:03 <fungot> oerjan: it was konqueror and ie that were broken from the beginning of each function in that same language.
11:49:10 <int-e> Yes. Thanks, fungot, beacon of sanity.
11:49:10 <fungot> int-e: your model doesn't save the internal state. this is among the most plugged in initially
11:57:05 * ski started at ~ 6.5
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12:05:25 <oerjan> "The TL;DR: Holy $#!t !! I finally can say with a straight face that universal quantum computers might be built in the next 2 decades (given adequate commitment of resources of course… but not more than the low tens of billions dollars, I dare say, which really isn’t more than 2 or 3 generations of new microprocessors these days). :)"
12:05:52 <oerjan> aaronson blog comment by bill kaminsky
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14:41:09 <Slereah> Poor yorick
14:41:13 <Slereah> I knew you well
14:41:23 <yorick> I knew him Horatio
14:41:38 <yorick> dammit Slereah you did it wrong
14:41:52 <Slereah> I don't know William Shatner that well
14:42:08 <Slereah> Shakesman
14:42:18 <Slereah> On the other hand
14:42:25 <Slereah> There's a dude named Marty on freenode
14:42:37 <Slereah> I never miss my Back to the Future quotes
14:42:40 <Slereah> MCFLY!
14:42:57 <Slereah> Are you... Chicken???
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15:14:19 <Vorpal> Slereah, poor guy :P
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15:32:07 <int-e> @bot
15:32:08 <lambdabot> :)
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15:56:47 <elliott> http://eccouncil.org/
16:08:20 <int-e> elliott: what's this, viral marketing for ethics?
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16:10:35 <elliott> a hacked site
16:12:29 <int-e> is that so, looks plausible from here.
16:13:28 <int-e> (IP address is Is it the same for you?)
16:15:38 <int-e> nah, you probably have
16:17:48 <elliott> ah, DNS not propagated for you?
16:23:27 <int-e> Actually I don't seem to get anything suspicious from either IP, but perhaps I'm doing it wrong.
16:26:10 <elliott> I get
16:28:21 <int-e> I was doing it wrong.
16:31:07 <int-e> (I've now resorted to curl -H 'Host: www.eccouncil.org'
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17:08:57 <Vorpal> int-e, looked hacked to me
17:15:17 <int-e> Vorpal: DNS has propagated to here now (the zone lifetime was just an hour)
17:16:12 <Vorpal> int-e, ah, so they defaced it by redirecting DNS rather than defacing the HTTP server?
17:16:30 <int-e> yes
17:17:15 <Vorpal> what is that about passports on the page btw?
17:19:16 <int-e> maybe they got access to the info@ mailbox (mail is handled by google)
17:20:12 <int-e> at least that's what the screenshot suggests: the shown e-mail has a passport scan as an attachment.
17:26:48 <Vorpal> Hm
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17:33:43 <Sgeo> I think QUassel just gives up on reconnecting eventually :(
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18:34:37 <Vorpal> Sgeo, I guess you need a better connection instead?
18:34:52 <Vorpal> I should log into the ADSL modem to check uptime
18:34:56 <Vorpal> Pretty massive iirc
18:34:58 <Sgeo> Vorpal: I blame Freenode, none of the other networks have been giving me problems
18:35:03 <Sgeo> Except once
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18:35:04 <Vorpal> Fair enough
18:35:20 <Vorpal> Sgeo, iirc they got DDoSed yesterday
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19:14:17 <zzo38> When I try to use the IRC PING command targeting pratchett.freenode.net, I get "services." in place of the name of the server.
19:15:56 <zzo38> The MOTD also says it is a services daemon
19:16:36 <zzo38> Calling the server "services." does work too.
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19:22:58 <Vorpal> zzo38, presumably because it is the services?
19:24:58 <zzo38> Vorpal: Yes, it is sensible, but I would expect something else.
19:25:17 <Vorpal> kay
19:25:21 <zzo38> The other algorithm I wanted to know, for my program, is if there is an efficient way to compile a dictionary of search strings so that you can find them a large collection of other texts?
19:26:49 <Vorpal> I believe so, but I do not remember what the algorithm is called
19:27:41 <Vorpal> zzo38, Googling "text search algorithm" (without quotes) found this as the first result: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%E2%80%93Moore_string_search_algorithm
19:27:50 <Vorpal> Might be worth reading about
19:28:41 <Vorpal> Also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Full_text_search
19:30:44 <zzo38> Wikipedia is broke
19:30:53 <Vorpal> Hm, not from here
19:31:01 <zzo38> Anyways, it isn't really a full text search that I want
19:31:02 <Vorpal> Guess only certain mirrors are broken
19:31:11 <Vorpal> Oh, then I misunderstood you
19:31:33 <zzo38> And since my program imports SQLite, if I do want full-text-search, I already have it.
19:32:00 <zzo38> But really I mean even substrings like "llo wor" in "Hello world", and so on, being case-sensitive and everything like that.
19:32:03 <Vorpal> Quite
19:32:17 <Vorpal> Then the first link would fit better
19:33:02 <zzo38> It would be, if it worked.
19:33:08 <Vorpal> Hm
19:33:10 <zzo38> But I get a 503 error.
19:33:32 <Vorpal> Try refreshing? It works for me
19:33:49 <zzo38> It doesn't work for me.
19:34:02 <Vorpal> Not much I can do about that, try later maybe?
19:34:14 <zzo38> Yes, I can try later, like it says
19:34:55 <Vorpal> It is basically an algorithm for speeding up linear text searching by skipping forward in the string when it knows there can't be a match
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19:38:16 <zzo38> I do think I read something about similar things in some book once
19:39:53 <Vorpal> zzo38, here, this might help: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:gUZbBziwUoEJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boyer%25E2%2580%2593Moore_string_search_algorithm+&cd=1&hl=sv&ct=clnk
19:39:57 <Vorpal> Google's cache
19:43:23 <zzo38> Yes, that's good
19:45:28 <Vorpal> zzo38, there is a lot of links at the end of that article to other algorithms, might be worth checking those as well
19:46:10 <Vorpal> zzo38, by the way, what is your goal here?
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19:49:14 <zzo38> In order to find the instance of search strings so that they can be replaced by a code that references them, in order to achieve compression.
19:49:25 <Vorpal> Hm okay
19:49:32 <zzo38> (I do not have control over the decoding method)
19:49:51 <Vorpal> Implementing a specific compression format?
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19:50:26 <zzo38> Yes. I could make it to figure out which strings it should compress, too, but I don't know how to do that either, and that data could be entered manually too.
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19:51:20 <Vorpal> I'm no expert on compression algorithms, but I believe they generally keep a dynamic dictionary that can change as it goes along
19:51:47 -!- iamcal__ has joined.
19:51:49 <Vorpal> And it generally is done in one pass over the input
19:52:16 <zzo38> Well, I have to use a static dictionary
19:52:30 <Vorpal> That is a pretty strange algorithm
19:52:42 -!- filo3sofie has joined.
19:52:49 <zzo38> Although the static dictionary doesn't have to be any specific way; I could make it to figure out the best static dictionary to use, if that could be done.
19:53:10 <Vorpal> Which compression algorithm is this?
19:54:11 <zzo38> It is the one used in Z-machine. This static dictionary is called the FWORDS table, and is limited to 96 entries.
19:54:47 <Vorpal> zzo38, also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictionary_coder (you can easily google the url to find the cache link if you want that)
19:55:35 <zzo38> I have seen that article before
19:55:45 -!- conehead has joined.
19:55:49 <zzo38> But it mentions about dynamic dictionary coders
19:55:59 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 241 seconds).
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19:56:38 <Vorpal> As well yes
19:59:34 <Vorpal> zzo38, this also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffix_tree
19:59:56 <Vorpal> Not sure how you would best determine a static dictionary though
20:00:04 <Vorpal> Should be doable though
20:02:48 <quintopia> whats up
20:07:16 <zzo38> Wikipedia works now.
20:07:26 <quintopia> oh that's good
20:07:31 <quintopia> i didn't know it was broken
20:11:49 -!- Bike has joined.
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20:40:14 <Vorpal> quintopia, only in certain places it seems, it worked fine for me the entire time
20:43:31 <Sgeo> shachaf: you're not schaf, are you?
20:47:37 <Vorpal> * [shachaf] is logged in as shachaf
20:47:37 <Vorpal> * [schaf] is logged in as schaf
20:47:46 <Vorpal> Sgeo, I would say the answer is no
20:47:48 <Vorpal> Probably
20:48:07 <myname> schaf is actually sheep in german
20:48:37 <shachaf> myname is actually my name in english
20:48:47 <myname> shachaf: i know that!
20:49:17 <myname> that's the reason why i have it
20:49:32 <myname> i was like 12 and my uncle said i have to enter a nickname
20:49:39 <myname> couldn't think of anything
20:49:44 <myname> know i stick with it
21:00:36 <Vorpal> myname, heh
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21:08:42 <boily> good hangover morning.
21:10:16 <bitcoin933> FNORD
21:11:21 <myname> fnord is the color that only the blind can see
21:11:35 <bitcoin933> nicely put
21:12:45 -!- Sellyme has quit (Excess Flood).
21:13:12 -!- Sellyme has joined.
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21:21:06 <bitcoin933> http://www.fnord.org/~arioch/
21:22:22 <myname> what
21:23:25 <Bike> <img alt="A beautiful woman to suck my cock" src="sigil-1.gif">
21:26:36 <bitcoin933> bike
21:26:43 <bitcoin933> we know you're a part of the nick flood
21:32:00 <bitcoin933> or should I say aeshtaer
21:34:24 <elliott> what's this about
21:35:58 <bitcoin933> bike has been internally sabotaging the group
21:36:19 <bitcoin933> pretending to be a decent member
21:37:03 <Bike> I regret nothing.
21:37:46 <bitcoin933> 1337
21:37:54 <elliott> bitcoin933: who are you and what are you talking about?
21:38:04 <Slereah> Goddamn
21:38:10 <elliott> and why do I recognise the name aeshtaer
21:38:12 <Slereah> I'm trying to play the first Might and Magic
21:38:21 <Slereah> Since it's on Apple II, it's quite a hassle
21:38:35 <boily> Slereah: do you have an Apple II?
21:38:36 <bitcoin933> slereah get your fnords out of here
21:38:46 <Slereah> Nah
21:38:49 <Slereah> But there's emulators
21:38:57 <boily> bitcoin933: who are you, and were you `relcomed?
21:38:58 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
21:39:10 <elliott> bitcoin933: less noise and complaining at regulars and more answers please
21:39:25 <bitcoin933> i was initiated in 1989
21:39:35 <bitcoin933> before many of your were born on usenet
21:39:48 <bitcoin933> we've been using #esoteric as a congregation place for years
21:40:01 <bitcoin933> but finally decided that it was too risky and flooded the channels with programmers
21:40:33 <bitcoin933> so that our records are lost in a sea of programming jabber
21:41:04 <bitcoin933> many of us still communicate through this channel but not by text
21:41:11 <bitcoin933> but by reply time
21:41:31 <bitcoin933> we correspond reply times to concepts and communicate that way
21:41:32 <elliott> oh, aeshtaer is just Bike's ident
21:41:42 <bitcoin933> yes
21:41:43 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
21:41:50 <bitcoin933> we've been following him for about two months
21:41:51 <elliott> anyway cut it out or something idk
21:41:59 <bitcoin933> and we've seen him sabotage his own friends
21:42:51 <bitcoin933> none of this matters as what we started nearly 25 years ago will soon pay off this week
21:43:00 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
21:43:04 -!- elliott has kicked bitcoin933 you're really boring??.
21:43:17 <Vorpal> elliott, since when do you have op in here?
21:43:42 <elliott> since almost 8 months ago
21:43:45 <Vorpal> Oh okay
21:43:57 <Vorpal> Also who was that?
21:44:07 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Read error: Operation timed out).
21:44:08 <elliott> I couldn't find any log evidence they'd been here before, oddly
21:44:24 <elliott> though they didn't exactly strike me as being here for the first time
21:44:24 <Vorpal> Huh
21:44:42 <Vorpal> Probably just some regular having a bit of fun by trolling?
21:44:45 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
21:44:58 <elliott> then why have the first two parts of their IP never occurred before in my logs?
21:45:12 <Vorpal> well okay, that is a good question
21:45:22 <Vorpal> maybe they have a cloak normally?
21:47:29 <Vorpal> Hm ~/Downloads has an interesting system. When there is to much crap in it, I do mkdir old && mv * old, so there is a nested structure of ~/Downloads/old/old/old/old by this point
21:47:35 <Vorpal> I need to clean that up
21:48:14 <boily> find ~/Downloads -type f -exec shred -vuz {} \; && rm -rf ~/Downloads
21:48:30 -!- birch has joined.
21:49:16 <quintopia> boily!
21:49:29 <elliott> birch: hi, bitcoin933
21:49:35 <birch> hey
21:49:43 <elliott> is the nick change meant to endear?
21:49:56 <birch> no I just thought the numbers were weird at the end
21:50:44 <boily> `relcome birch
21:51:01 <birch> `welcome birch
21:51:10 <boily> quintopia: quinthellopia.
21:51:27 <fizzie> Vorpal: I do that with home directories sometimes. Hence I have such directory name gems as ~/__UBUNTU__/_MUST_SORT_/momusspace-before-crash/mnt/_NSA_MOVE_/music_unsorted/random/old/unsorted/
21:51:28 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!).
21:51:28 <boily> right. the gregorbots are dead, so no `relcoming.
21:51:34 <quintopia> boily: would you like to grade my essay on computational complexity
21:51:58 <fizzie> For some reason naming a directory "_MUST_SORT_" never makes it get sorted out any faster.
21:52:33 <boily> quintopia: I'd like to, but I can't focus on anything longer than five minutes. I am quite hungover from yesterday.
21:52:45 <Vorpal> fizzie, NSA_MOVE?
21:52:46 <quintopia> boily: sounds awesome!
21:52:46 <birch> smoke some w33d
21:53:25 <fizzie> Vorpal: A reference to a Zyxel network-attached storage box with the model name "NSA-220".
21:53:31 <boily> quintopia: nah. been throwing up for the past 11 hours.
21:53:41 <birch> no bueno senior
21:53:42 * boily mapoles birch
21:54:25 <birch> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&ved=0CEYQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fpub%2Fsean-mapoles%2F5%2Fa64%2F6a8&ei=AG4KU-3_MITLkAfK_ICICA&usg=AFQjCNGhaNoSWUXc1xKt0iY7xdhg6DpIkg&sig2=NQ9Rhp_ZMej4m9Wifs3UDA&bvm=bv.61725948,d.eW0
21:54:33 <Vorpal> fizzie, Well I guess we know where it reported to
21:55:00 -!- Sorella has joined.
21:55:23 <birch> purple
21:55:24 <birch> dark blue
21:55:27 <birch> light blue
21:55:28 <birch> green
21:55:30 <birch> yellow
21:55:31 <birch> orange
21:55:32 <birch> red
21:55:39 <fizzie> Vorpal: I'm sure it's just "Network Storage Appliance" or something equally benign. Incidentally, want to buy it? I'm not using it any longer.
21:55:51 <Vorpal> fizzie, eh, is it any good?
21:56:22 <fizzie> Vorpal: Not really. They managed to not include a wake-on-lan feature on it (there's one on the NSA-220+ and the NSA-320, which are later models), for one thing.
21:56:32 <birch> 448k
21:56:50 <birch> testing...
21:56:52 <birch> testing....
21:56:54 <birch> testing....
21:57:00 <birch> xcrp
21:57:08 <birch> four
21:57:09 <birch> four
21:57:11 <boily> can I get op for a few seconds please?
21:57:12 <birch> eight
21:57:17 <Vorpal> fizzie, yeah... not interested
21:57:21 <boily> (it'll help me feel better.)
21:57:50 <birch> I LOST MY DONKEY
21:57:57 <birch> oh wait
21:57:58 <birch> no
21:57:59 <birch> there it is
21:58:29 <Vorpal> birch, -_-
21:59:12 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o fizzie.
21:59:14 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: +q *!*@gateway/web/freenode/ip.
21:59:18 -!- fizzie has set channel mode: -o fizzie.
21:59:21 <quintopia> yay capt. fizzie
22:00:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott.
22:00:52 -!- elliott has set channel mode: +o birch.
22:00:54 <elliott> birch: yes:
22:00:56 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o birch.
22:00:59 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott.
22:01:08 <fizzie> elliott: That was boily asking, incidentally.
22:01:25 <elliott> oh.
22:01:29 <elliott> I'm competent.
22:02:16 <fizzie> boily: Now see what you did again with your easily confusable name. Have you no shame at all?
22:02:50 <boily> I'll feel shameful tomorrow. all my emotions are set aside while I vainly try to feel unnauseated.
22:03:41 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined.
22:04:30 <elliott> we should -q birch to see what other dumb things they say
22:06:03 -!- birch has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds).
22:06:04 <ion> `coins
22:09:04 -!- metasepia has joined.
22:09:07 <boily> ~dice 2 20
22:09:08 <metasepia> 1 1 2 1 2 2 1 1 1 1 2 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 --- Sum = 32
22:09:34 <boily> ion: ↑ please accept this humble coin-ersatz.
22:19:55 <ion> Thoily
22:26:00 <FireFly> ~dice 1 10
22:26:00 <metasepia> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 --- Sum = 10
22:27:58 <boily> ~dice -1 10
22:27:58 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number]
22:27:59 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice.
22:28:04 <boily> ~dice 0 10
22:28:04 <metasepia> 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 --- Sum = 10
22:28:13 <boily> I feel a bug.
22:28:33 <FireFly> ~dice 1.5 3
22:28:33 <metasepia> 1 --- Sum = 1
22:29:16 <FireFly> ~dice ⚀ ⚂ ⚃ ⚁ ⚅ ⚂
22:29:16 <metasepia> --- ~dice sides [number]
22:29:16 <metasepia> --- Throw dice, e.g.: dice 6 4 will throw four regular dice.
22:29:32 <boily> I feel multiple bugs.
22:30:00 * boily takes notes... “negative dice, fractional dice, complex dice, unicode dice...”
22:30:07 -!- brandonson has joined.
22:30:19 <FireFly> What about surreal and infinitesimal dice?
22:30:32 <FireFly> ~metar ESSA
22:30:32 <metasepia> ESSA 232220Z 21017KT 9999 BKN029 06/02 Q1011 R01L/12//95 R01R/19//95 R08/12//95 NOSIG
22:31:10 * boily amends surreality onto the list
22:31:20 <boily> ~metar CYUL
22:31:20 <metasepia> CYUL 232200Z 23012G19KT 30SM FEW060 FEW240 01/M08 A2978 RMK SC1CI1 SC TR CI TR SLP085
22:31:35 <Taneb> Today I wrote a program that converges on my phone number VIA THE POWER OF NATURAL SELECTION
22:32:23 <boily> Tanelle.
22:32:32 <boily> Taneb: GA?
22:33:03 <Taneb> Possibly
22:33:58 <Taneb> I didn't implement crossover at all
22:35:51 <Taneb> Also it isn't very useful
22:38:00 <Taneb> Especially as what it finds is written twice in the source code
22:40:09 <boily> I wonder what would happen if I tried calling Taneb...
22:40:28 <FireFly> Taneb: reminds me of http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/17294/golfing-a-weasel-program
22:42:51 <Taneb> I do something similar, but restricted to 11 decimal digits, with a 10% chance of switching to an adjacent digit (with 0 between 9 and 1)
22:42:55 <Taneb> And it keeps more than 1
23:27:05 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg).
23:29:19 <boily> @tell nooodl je nog hebt
23:29:19 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
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