00:09:42 -!- shikhout has joined. 00:12:19 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 00:12:20 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 00:12:38 there clearly should be more std*s to choose among 00:14:15 shikhin: i suppose you could branch out to c header file names 00:17:11 nothing like washing the dishes to singe off a few skin layers on your fingers... <-- i see two options (1) use less boily water (2) use gloves 00:18:58 -!- tromp has quit (*.net *.split). 00:18:59 -!- Bike has quit (*.net *.split). 00:22:30 quite splitty today. i am reading codu and tunes logs in parallel. tunes managed to pick up some of Sgeo's lines twice. 00:23:28 and then tunes leaves off for hours. 00:23:39 -!- Frooxius has joined. 00:27:04 -!- nisstyre_ has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 00:27:45 -!- nisstyre has joined. 00:28:16 la la la 00:32:47 mi mi mi 00:37:10 -!- Node_492 has joined. 00:37:15 ooooo 00:37:19 this channel is s o 00:37:21 esoteric 00:37:31 `relcome Node_492 00:37:38 thank you! 00:37:43 Ah. No bot. 00:37:48 hahaha 00:37:52 nope 00:38:18 interesting channel 00:38:26 he didn't mean you but our welcoming bot 00:38:42 hm... 00:38:46 ^welcome 00:38:47 : Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page. (For the other kind of esoterica, try ... 00:38:47 ohh 00:39:04 ohh it's esoteric programming language design... 00:39:26 I never really got into computer programming 00:39:28 oh right we tried putting a backup message on fungot but it's cutting the line too short 00:39:28 oerjan: if so, call this command with that person's nick. :) hopefully i can get freedom by spending some extra ram i'm all for that 00:39:51 i guess it works for desperate times 00:40:00 wow 00:40:04 Node_492: the bot would have said: "Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.)", but with way too many colors. 00:40:33 ah thank you 00:40:52 I thought this channel was going to be about esoteric discussion/texts 00:41:07 oerjan: oh. I have to remember that fungot knows about this, too. 00:41:07 int-e: there is a complete waste of time. i just used the manpage on linux), so that's 1+0, or 1 week the other way 00:41:38 then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts. then again, redundancy hardly ever hurts. 00:41:42 It saddens me that it seems the only thing I care about enough to actually get into an argument about is whether redstone is TC or not 00:42:26 Taneb: hm you must be another one of my mirror twins. 00:42:42 oerjan, which side do you take 00:43:21 Taneb: i don't play minecraft, but doesn't redstone have bounded memory? 00:43:43 Yes, which nobody else seems to grasp 00:44:18 i've gotten into tc arguments elsewhere lately 00:44:21 anybody want to teach me programming? 00:44:27 except that time it was the human brain, which was just sad 00:44:28 * oerjan notices that fungot 00:44:28 oerjan: i'm not talking about syntax now...) sends " fnord" this'? 00:44:28 I promise to be a great pupil 00:44:35 's message was eerily relevant 00:44:40 (again) 00:44:40 Node_492: What programs, and what programming languages? 00:44:40 33 00:44:50 oerjan: the waste of time one? 00:44:50 Node_492, ok your first lesson as a programmer 00:44:53 no idea I mean the most basic I suppose 00:45:05 I am interested in audio programs though 00:45:07 your primary way of learning to program is to google " tutorial" 00:45:10 as I'm an audio engineer for my day job 00:45:18 and deal with audio plugin VSTs within DAWs 00:45:19 for computers 00:45:25 and could make a good amount of money off of those 00:45:43 often these tutorials will be shit and inaccurate; your second lesson in a programmer is how to furiously defend whatever arbitrary preferences and habits you've now picked up 00:45:48 Phantom__Hoover: wow. it works for malbolge. http://www.lscheffer.com/malbolge.shtml 00:46:07 right but I'm on a mac, would learning to program really benefit my life? 00:46:21 no 00:46:22 i don't know, you're the one who wants to learn! 00:46:27 I mean 00:46:34 programming is unpleasant and programmers moreso 00:46:36 learn to program, be like elliott 00:46:39 can't I just learn some fun tricks in the terminal or something 00:46:42 yes 00:47:03 int-e: no the one about "call this command with that person's nick", which is just what i forgot to do with ^welcome 00:47:04 programming doesn't have to be a drag does it? 00:47:12 fun tricks in the terminal are the gateway drug to programming! 00:47:17 exactly 00:47:29 (mind you that would have just cut it off even more) 00:47:57 so what do you guys do for programming? 00:48:00 websites? 00:48:16 I program in many programming languages. 00:48:28 well 00:48:31 if I were to say 00:48:36 Node_492: your programming question seems to have brought out the channel's cynics :P 00:48:36 I can list some if you want 00:48:43 could you try to get a blockchain.info account code and password 00:48:53 would that be possible for you? 00:48:58 what 00:49:07 are you asking us to hack someone's bitcoin account 00:49:16 Node_492: I don't think so. 00:49:19 I'm asking if your programming skills coule do it 00:49:21 okay 00:49:29 so if I can't even get an account password and shit 00:49:43 then this programming thing is just pebble bits 00:49:46 Node_492: you seem to be confused about what programming is for 00:49:55 like would any of you guys be able to program for my computer to shut off 00:49:59 remotely from your location? 00:50:16 ?? 00:50:18 no 00:50:21 Node_492: What operating system do you use? In order to do that, I would not only need to know the operating system but your computer needs to run a program to listen for that command. 00:50:32 what? 00:50:34 most probably not, if not for some social engineering 00:50:42 there's no way to get into my terminal and make it install itself? 00:50:51 Node_492, you will literally die if you don't turn off your computer asap 00:50:57 man 00:50:59 so 00:51:02 Node_492: There *might* me. 00:51:07 meh 00:51:10 It depends how it is configured. 00:51:10 okay fine 00:51:12 so programming 00:51:19 But probably not. 00:51:29 say I want a program that picks up sound frequencies and tells me what key the tone is in 00:51:33 would any of you guys be able to do it 00:51:36 if I paid money 00:51:48 Node_492: Does your computer have a microphone? 00:51:57 well yes I have microphones 00:52:00 that connect to my computer 00:52:02 I think there probably are existing programs to do that anyways. 00:52:07 yeah I know 00:52:23 I'm just trying to see if I can do anything with programming 00:52:24 I probably could if I researched it enough 00:52:30 I see 00:52:39 so I mean... 00:52:55 programming is the #1 job market next to lawyers and engineers 00:53:07 it's just pretty interesting to me 00:53:16 I thought programming was a bit more powerful 00:53:24 or I thought hacking was easier 00:53:25 either or 00:53:41 I do not completely understand you. Powerful in what ways? 00:53:56 Ooh, buzz-wordy. "Most modern spectrum analyzers are now almost exclusively Hybrid Superheterodyne-FFT based giving a significant improvement in sweep time." 00:54:00 like the best programmer in ze world 00:54:08 Superheterodyne! 00:54:14 would they be able to shut off internet servers remotely 00:54:18 or anything cool like that? 00:54:30 or is that all fake and you actually would have to have physical access to the servers 00:54:30 that's not "cool" hth 00:54:31 Node_492: it's not cool. they might, but where's the fun? 00:54:34 Node_492: It depends what they have access to. 00:54:46 what if they have access to the whereabouts of the secret princess 00:55:04 It isn't something I know anything about. 00:55:12 33 00:55:54 Node_492: i don't care about hacking or other criminal activities, so i've never bothered to learn any more than vague theory about it. i'm sure many people here on the channel are the same. 00:56:08 alright so 00:56:08 Well, I read 2600. 00:56:16 what's something cool you could do with programming 00:56:26 I guess you could do stuff like automate the sprinkler times 00:56:27 I have no interest in committing any crimes, but the information can be used for other purposes too. 00:56:32 -!- eupatheia has joined. 00:56:36 Node_492: Yes, if it is connected to a sprinkler. 00:56:43 I'm just trying to understand it's usefulness 00:56:51 Otherwise you can't do it anymore than you can shut off a server remotely. 00:56:53 have you ever used a computer? 00:56:56 -!- eupatheia has left. 00:56:59 no 00:57:06 interesting. 00:57:10 are you from the past 00:57:11 you're just trolling, right? 00:57:14 no 00:57:19 I'm only 16 00:57:21 I have a smartphone 00:57:27 as that's what my generation got 00:57:34 it's a computer 00:57:38 fine 00:58:02 Smartphones aren't as good as a proper computer 00:58:02 (a computing device, if you will. but for all intents and purposes, it's a universal machine running software, that is, programs.) 00:58:14 But yes it is a computer. 00:58:16 well, not universal 00:58:17 your version string reports OS X 00:58:23 so you're definitely using a computer right now 00:58:26 (the downside is that vendors will lock it down and make it hard to run your own software on.) 00:58:29 well I'm at the mac store 00:58:39 getting my phone fixed right now 00:58:42 I had weird issues 00:58:46 that would shut it down 00:58:58 so I thought maybe learning a bit of programming would help future events like that 00:59:15 most probably not 00:59:20 it will not 00:59:34 right 00:59:42 so say I learned all the programming in the world 00:59:51 would I theoretically be able to make my own smartphone OS 00:59:51 It really doesn't. Even if you have a better understanding of what's going wrong, you'll still be locked out. (And generally you'll be unable to collect the necessary information, again for lack of access to the device.) 00:59:55 and Apps 01:00:03 yes 01:00:11 programmers write operating systems and apps. 01:00:18 wtf is CTCP version 01:00:28 and thanks int-e 01:00:28 they're not found written on stone tablets 01:00:32 -!- Frooxius has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:01:10 wtf is requested ctcp version from node_492 01:01:14 "CTCP" is "client-to-client protocol", a method for encoding queries to IRC clients on top of IRC messages. 01:01:29 so what's elliot trying to do...? 01:01:46 somebody was interested in your IRC client software, and asked it about it. nothing happened, it's normal. 01:02:07 oh okay 01:02:09 anyway 01:02:21 I work as a audio forensics person 01:02:24 it's like reading a name plate on a door bell. 01:02:35 and we have technology at our base that allows us to do some wicked stuff 01:02:41 I thought programmers were savvy on it 01:03:09 like I can take out certain frequencies/sounds from an audio source and isolate it 01:03:09 some are 01:03:24 some programmers are. programmers specialize. and of course some are better at what they are doing than others. 01:03:35 I see 01:04:45 You'd implement some sort of band filter. I've never needed one, so I'd hit google with those keywords. (I know it can be done with FFT, but that's probably overkill in this case.) 01:05:44 no I already know how to do it 01:05:52 I have software specifically for audio forensics 01:05:59 I was just wondering how hard it is to make my own 01:06:09 I work as a audio forensics person 01:06:09 I'd probably need 3 years of learning and a 10 man team 01:06:13 and you're sixteen 01:06:19 so? 01:06:30 I intern at my friends studio 01:06:42 mm 01:06:59 if you guys give me an audio file I can prove my skillz 01:08:30 Node_492: i'd think once you know basic programming, the hard part of audio forensics is learning the mathematical theory of sound waves. 01:08:50 I'm sure there's algorithms already though 01:09:01 as the funamentals of tone and frequency are all in textbooks 01:09:02 yes, those are of course based on the math. 01:09:28 well okay 01:09:33 in my field 01:09:45 we've been doing this new thing called circuitry emulation 01:09:52 where we take an old vintage analog piece of hardware 01:09:59 and we model it's behaviors 01:10:06 through convultion and many other means 01:10:12 and create a software version of the hardware 01:10:30 (Hey, I was going to suggest that I could simulate an actual band pass filter circuit, then erased that remark.) 01:10:39 I think they do it by hardware that picks up the vintage gear's mathmatics 01:10:58 no no 01:11:03 I can do that with a simple equalizer 01:11:17 anyway, what I was getting at is 01:11:30 are there hardware/gear that helps programmers out 01:11:45 by say, figuring out equations for them and whatnot that they might need within their programming 01:11:50 besides a calculator I suppose 01:13:57 I don't know, perhaps things like the signal processing toolbox for matlab (is there some open source software like that?) 01:14:11 my impression is _most_ programmers (i'm not actually a professional one) do web programming, which doesn't require much equations. 01:14:32 (and is also probably boring.) 01:16:07 Octave's got some of MATLAB's filter design bits implemented. 01:16:20 And I'm sure there are programmers in the world that have used Mathematica. 01:16:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:16:40 do apple stores really use what looks like residential ADSL for their internet connections? 01:17:06 sometimes 01:17:11 it's not an official mac store 01:17:12 sometimes? 01:17:16 ... 01:17:17 it's just a repair shop in the city 01:17:26 I imagine that starting with something high-level that offers, say, filters that can be plugged together, and then exploring the internals of a filter and writing your own, will be far less frustrating than starting from the bottom, where anything more complex than a 'hello world!' will be a challenge initially. 01:17:39 anyway the matlabs filter design and signal processing is EXACTLY what I was looking for 01:17:41 thank you!! 01:17:42 there are third-partyi Phone repair shops? 01:17:51 it's true 01:18:04 we don't have a mac store in edinburgh, we have some 3rd-party place 01:18:04 which don't void apple's warranty? 01:18:14 it might void it 01:18:18 not sure 01:18:33 Hmm, not sure if it's coincidence that I managed to reconnect after adding chat.freenode.net:6667 and making the chat.freenode.net:7000 config use SSL 01:18:37 oerjan: If you keep quiet about it. 01:18:37 The successful connection seems to have been to 6665, which it was alraedy trying to go to 01:18:39 And SASL didn't seem like it was helping before 01:19:18 oerjan: "I don't know why there's a rude message scratched into the internal components of the phone, it must've been like that when it left the factory." 01:19:23 Sgeo: a coincidence is likely, since chat.freenode.net resolves to several IP addresses. 01:19:57 do any of you guys use DAWs with VSTs/AUs? 01:20:02 It is true that freenode's 7000 is SSL-only, though. 01:20:15 (hmm, but it could be worth checking whether some of the servers listen to non-6667 ports only) 01:20:16 it's all programming and probably one of the most popular up and coming sectors of programming 01:21:01 -!- TodPunk has joined. 01:21:54 "digital audio workstation", "virtual studio technology", "audio unit". No. 01:22:32 I use Csound. 01:22:42 Not with VST, DAW, and AU, though. 01:22:42 God, I feel like crap 01:22:56 woah 01:23:01 fizzie: but I don't seem to be connected to 7000 01:23:02 Csound looks interesting 01:23:05 I might download it 01:23:21 ooooooooo 01:23:35 so is Csound almost like a sound modulator that you can program? 01:23:39 I also wrote extensions to Csound, and a program CsoundMML to compile the score. 01:24:07 * oerjan guesses on "almost, except not almost" 01:24:36 There are quite a few "audio programming languages" around. Pure Data is another well-known one. 01:24:42 hmm 01:24:44 Well, for some values of "well known". 01:24:55 (In the "I've heard of it" sense.) 01:25:00 so say I get good at coding in one of these programs 01:25:02 then what? 01:25:20 I make programs for other people to use or something 01:25:23 ? 01:27:10 I'd guesstimate that most users of Csound/Pd are just doing music-y things for their own amusement. 01:27:52 And/or sound-related research, could be handy tools there too. 01:28:01 I see 01:28:36 so programming is difficult in my opinion without a GUI 01:28:39 I know it sounds retarded 01:28:43 but coming from the layman 01:29:01 programming things would be so much better if they had GUIs 01:29:19 I prefer it without a GUI, but that is due to preference 01:29:40 I just hate the whole 01:29:47 you can't undo/go back type thing 01:29:51 or maybe you can 01:30:29 it's one of those 1-2-3 things: 1. learn programming. 2. ... 3. profit! 01:30:58 do any of you guys earn money from programming 01:30:58 ? 01:31:09 or rather make a living? 01:31:14 In the meantime, programmers who know a bit of C can laught about https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BhEuZKmCcAAcPAS.png 01:31:26 int-e: Now that I look at it, Octave-Forge's "signal" package seems to have grown to cover a lot more of MATLAB compared to what it used to. 01:31:26 and how do you even approach people for jobs 01:32:08 hey int-e, that's not a stab at me is it?? 01:32:29 companies have websites. say, https://www.apple.com/jobs/us/ 01:32:35 int-e, so that works out as a goto fail that will always be executed, right? 01:32:47 Node_492: no. 01:32:50 Phantom__Hoover: yes! 01:32:54 haha 01:33:05 Phantom__Hoover: I'm sure Python people are already using this as a proof for their superiority. 01:33:42 fizzie: interesting. 01:33:48 -!- tromp has joined. 01:34:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:35:09 Node_492: The point of the 1-2-3 thing is really that there are many ways in which programming may come in handy. You can work as a programmer, you can do consulting, you can do something entirely different and automate a couple of data processing tasks. You can program for others, or you can make tools for yourself. It's hard to say which is the way to go. 01:35:31 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:35:32 -!- Guest80757 has joined. 01:35:32 -!- LoRdToLsToI has joined. 01:35:52 Can you get indentation-does-not-match-logic warnings out of any mainstream compiler and/or lint tool? 01:36:04 I see 01:36:26 I kinda want to get into it but it seems a bit too daunting 01:36:34 (I'm sure something like StyleCop would've just generally warned about the lack of braces or something.) 01:37:29 (Oh http://www.stylecop.com/docs/SA1503.html yes it would have.) 01:38:36 do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel 01:38:41 Node_492: That is certainly true. Then again, learning anything in more than superficial detail is daunting. 01:38:51 yes of course 01:39:03 but the notion of programming on a black screen with no GUI 01:39:04 it's like 01:39:13 asking the hottest cheerleader out at school 01:39:17 you don't have to do that. 01:39:25 [my terminals are black on white ;-) ...] 01:39:30 ... 01:39:44 and so through programming in the terminal 01:39:48 you can create GUIs right? 01:39:52 yes 01:40:05 what if I were to start programming and create a GUI for my own programming thing 01:40:07 so I can use it easier 01:40:30 buttons so I don't have to type out long commands 01:40:31 etc 01:40:32 You can use existing guis. 01:40:39 ah 01:40:49 -!- ggherdov has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 01:44:11 also 01:44:16 last time I was in IIRC 01:44:24 I made fun of some guy 01:44:33 and he fucking throttled my internet connection for MONTHS 01:44:43 god that was fucking horrible 01:45:14 what 01:45:47 ? 01:46:11 -!- shachaf has quit (Changing host). 01:46:11 -!- shachaf has joined. 01:53:44 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:54:30 do any of you guys know about an esoterica IRC channel <-- the end of our welcoming message which got cut off mentions #esoteric on the dalnet network, which is sort of where we've agreed to point people who ask (we haven't found any better channel). although last i heard it was very quiet. 01:55:08 you may also be interested in roald dahl 01:55:38 i don 01:55:58 * oerjan remembers and swats shachaf -----### 01:56:02 Or just ask whatever questions you have here; maybe nobody knows, but they are recorded so you can look later 01:56:43 ah 01:56:54 nah I just wanted to have a discussion on stuff other than programming 01:57:02 I came onto IIRC to just socialize 01:57:04 zzo38: i'm not sure that's a very good idea. 01:57:10 but I forgot that it's mainly programmers talking to each other 01:57:17 Yes it is mainly programming 01:57:22 But we do discuss various things here. 01:57:28 yeah 01:57:30 -!- tromp has joined. 01:57:30 Probably nobody knows the answer though 01:57:37 I once made a GUI for xmms2 in kommander 01:57:37 So better idea would be to look elsewhere 01:57:40 I don't have any questions really 01:57:41 Node_492: you are on the freenode IRC network. it is even more mainly programmers than other irc networks. 01:57:41 The code was ugly 01:57:43 Node_492: it's IRC, "Internet Relay Chat. "IIRC" is "if I remember correctly". 01:58:06 ...? 01:58:14 Yes, Freenode is mainly programming 01:58:21 wtf is the different between IRC and IIRC 01:58:25 (There was a quote missing.) 01:58:34 one is three letters. the other one has four. 01:58:41 -!- ggherdov has joined. 01:58:50 enlightening! 01:58:59 I,IRC 01:59:10 > let (irc,iirc) = (0,1) in irc == iirc 01:59:13 False 01:59:13 Node_492: irc is a way to chat. iirc is an abbreviation to use while chatting. hth 01:59:22 oh 01:59:27 okay 02:00:11 oerjan: "hth" dnh, I suspect :) 02:00:36 so what's the irc everybody uses for discussion/socializing? 02:00:41 dalnet? 02:00:48 It depends what you want to discuss. 02:01:03 o 02:01:11 I'm just trying to find interesting stuff 02:01:18 and interesting people 02:01:26 int-e: imo you cannot be right hth 02:01:34 Well, there is interesting stuff in this channel, but I don't know if it interests you or not. 02:01:40 reddit/4chan and all those bought out travistock operations are becoming mind numbingly bad like the six o' clock news 02:02:05 oerjan: that's sobering. I thought I had a chance of being right on occasion. 02:02:17 Node_492: reddit isn't so bad if you find a medium low size channel 02:02:27 it's the big ones that are truly crap 02:02:31 yeah but then it becomes so specialized 02:02:38 you can't talk about anything BUT that topic 02:02:42 and it becomes very vanilla 02:03:01 also I googled dalnet irc 02:03:07 yeah alas the best subreddits are the ones that are strictly on topic 02:03:07 but none of the links work 02:03:19 Node_492: irc.dal.net supposedly 02:03:25 yeah but that defeats the whole purpose of general discussion/socialization 02:03:44 sure it's cool for strict discussions 02:03:52 but not a great place to just chat 02:03:59 General discussion/socialization isn't the best idea; better to ask a specific question. 02:04:04 LOL 02:04:21 i've never looked much to places for general chat so i don't know how to find the good ones if they exist 02:04:32 the thing is 02:04:41 I've been looking for years since usernet 02:04:47 and they've all gotten shut down 02:05:04 or moved onto private invite only message boards 02:05:11 that become super elitist 02:05:17 private social boards 02:05:19 blah blah 02:05:48 all the plebs are left on reddit/facebook and the content from it is ruining my brain 02:07:26 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 02:08:29 irc.dalnet is down 02:08:32