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00:02:06 <int-e> ah but I should have touched the file at least. mumble :)
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02:01:23 <kmc> TIL you can authenticate to NickServ using a TLS client certificate
02:09:09 <ion> kmc: I tried that but then i switched to le insecure plaintext communications (greetings to everyone sniffing this) because my client’s upgrade feature that doesn’t drop connections can not TLS.
02:09:49 <ion> A flying squirrel was encountered on the sixth floor of a Finnish university. Photo: http://yle.fi/uutiset/todellinen_yllatys_yliopistolla__liito-orava_lensi_kuudenteen_kerrokseen/7111732
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03:00:05 <Sgeo> wat http://www.reddit.com/r/Racket/comments/1z4ira/racket_psa/
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03:25:21 <Sgeo> I don't even know why that was posted or what that has to do with anything
03:25:28 <Sgeo> I don't even know what's 'heh' about it, just... wat
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03:28:07 <elliott> echo "I don't even know why that was posted or what that has to do with anything" >wisdom/sgeo
03:28:47 <Sgeo> Did you just overwrite my wisdom?
03:30:05 <coppro> fun fact: this fact is not fun
03:30:10 <kmc> fun fact 0 = 1
03:42:41 * int-e is still upset about [1,1] being a singleton list.
03:43:11 <int-e> or is that an ocaml thing, I don't know.
03:43:42 <int-e> shachaf: it makes a tuple. In Haskell it'd be [(1,1)]
03:44:44 <int-e> And [1;1] would be a list of length 2.
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05:06:27 <Sgeo_> ”When you look at the ingredients, if you can’t spell it or pronounce it, you probably shouldn’t eat it,”
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05:06:55 <kmc> yeah! fuck science!
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05:07:04 <ion> sgeo: That’s an excellent measure.
05:07:04 <Sgeo_> Beyond the general silliness of that statement... I think many people can spell pretty much any word that they're looking at on a list of ingredients, at least while they're looking at it
05:07:30 <ion> I hear they’re putting DHMO into many products these days. :-(
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05:25:13 <newsham_> i'd rather eat food from a farmer prepared by a chef than from a geneticist prepared by a scientist.
05:25:30 <newsham_> science is good at lots of things.. but their optimization function on food is whack
05:26:18 <Sgeo_> How about food from a farmer given seeds by a geneticist?
05:26:30 <newsham_> sgeo: i'll take the non-gmo right now.
05:26:35 <newsham_> maybe in 200yrs i'll be fine with the gmo's
05:26:58 <newsham_> early adopter gets the early worms
05:27:40 <newsham_> fwiw, i'm not anti gmo, but i'm pretty anti all the companies pushing gmos down peoples throats while trying to conceal as much information as possible
05:27:54 <newsham_> they're optimizing profitability, not any useful utility function that i care about
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05:28:11 <newsham_> like flavor, or nutrition, for example
05:29:25 <oklopol> i think companies are just trying their best to make the world a better place for you and me
05:29:40 <Sgeo_> Quantity is a useful thing to attempt to maximize, and that gets accomplished at least partially, if not fully, when profit is being maximized for
05:30:01 <newsham_> sgeo: huh? how do you figure that profit and quality correlate.
05:30:17 <Bike> if you're going to complain aabout science food at least do something really bad, like factory farms
05:30:40 <oklopol> quantity and quality usually do correlate
05:30:42 <newsham_> [19:08] < Sgeo_> âWhen you look at the ingredients, if you canât spell it or pronounce it, you probably shouldnât eat it,â
05:30:49 <oklopol> (although perhaps inversely)
05:31:02 <newsham_> bike: that seems like a reasonable thing to complain about ^^^
05:31:12 <Bike> it's true, i avoid durians, but not high fructose corn syrupt
05:31:21 <newsham_> since most of the things you cant pronounce werent put there for anything other than preserving shelf life to increase profit
05:31:25 <Sgeo_> I never remember the difference between inverse and converse. Just that inverse+converse=contrapositive which iff the original statement
05:31:30 <newsham_> or to make food look artificially more appealing than it would otherwise
05:31:35 <Bike> mo like obverse, imo
05:31:55 <Sgeo_> Bike: what, the frog fractions fruit?
05:32:14 <Sgeo_> There's... an actual durain fruit
05:32:22 <newsham_> i like normal cane sugar.. why we gotta go with the HFCS is beyond me.. but.. i bet in the long run we'll find HFCS is not so bad for us, but that the impurities left aorund in manufacturing perhaps are...
05:32:44 <newsham_> at any rate, no need to rush into being an early adopter of not-well-tested chemical foods
05:32:51 <Bike> Sgeo_: lol did you seriously not know
05:33:18 <Sgeo_> I think I knew at one point then forgot
05:33:32 <kmc> Sgeo_: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg/471px-Singapore_MRT_Fines.jpg
05:33:47 <Sgeo_> Durians are not fine. Good to know.
05:33:55 <copumpkin> I have some disgusting durian candy
05:34:21 <Bike> kmc: i assume the fine is infinite
05:34:50 <newsham_> i have no objection to time-tested disgusting fruit candies
05:34:57 <newsham_> as long as they have been well vetted :)
05:35:23 <newsham_> how do you tell a good durian from a bad one?
05:35:37 <newsham_> if durians go bad do they start smelling good?
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05:35:57 <Bike> they're all bad because i can't pronounce the name correctly
05:36:29 <newsham_> earle grey + durian == durian grey tea?
05:37:55 <Bike> i avoid jabuticaba in favor of nice simple niacinamide for the same reason
05:38:05 <Bike> chemistry nomenclature is, imo, so easy.
05:38:15 <Bike> but fruits are all this weird foreign shit. can't deal w/it.
05:39:27 <Bike> also, fruits are like, full of chemicals? i mean most of the time you can't even figure out their relative concentrations or they vary crazily between fruits, even from the same tree! it's insane. no way i'm gonna eat that shit.
05:39:34 <Sgeo_> http://foodbabe.com/2012/07/30/why-its-time-to-throw-out-your-microwave/
05:39:42 <Sgeo_> Is this the same person who did the Subway thing?
05:39:43 <newsham_> bike; avoiding fruits you cant pronounce also seems like a good policy
05:39:51 <newsham_> stick with what you know.. never venture outside the bubble!
05:40:10 <Bike> ok but seriously the pronunciation thing is a stupid-ass rule. i'm out of sarcasm
05:40:31 <Sgeo_> ". For the experiment pictured above, microwaved water produced a similar physical structure to when the words “satan” and “hitler” were repeatedly exposed to the water. This fact is probably too hokey for most people – but I wanted to include it because sometimes the things we can’t see with the naked eye or even fully comprehend could be the most powerful way to unlock spontaneous healing."
05:40:47 <Bike> thanks, science
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05:42:24 <oklopol> do they elaborate on "unlock spontaneous healing"
05:42:38 <Bike> nature has a lot of chemicals in it in general. did you know that salicylic acid was originally found in a tree?? trees are just handing this stuff out! kids could get at
05:43:08 <Bike> and you can't even sue trees for unsafe practices. trust me, i've tried.
05:43:16 <newsham_> bike: eating stuff from a source you dont know that contains ingredients you arent familiar sounds like a reasonable cause for suspicion and caution to me
05:43:42 <pikhq> Yep. We should be suspicious of such people.
05:43:48 <newsham_> then again i still tink its neat that theres a guy who lives off eating only raw lambs that he slaughters himself
05:43:51 <Bike> i've only eaten food i know the source of a few times, since my family's house as a cherry tree. thus, i know for a fact it is 80% coyote shit by mass.
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05:44:36 <Bike> maybe you should have investigated where you were getting them first.
05:44:37 <newsham_> is it possible to put coyote shit into other fruits?
05:44:41 <elliott> can someone offer to host the wiki so I can get out of this godforsaken channel
05:44:41 <kmc> they have that ultra expensive coffee that's shit through a civet first
05:44:48 <Bike> kopi kopi luwak
05:44:59 <Bike> that's when you do it twice.
05:45:10 <Sgeo_> What happens if I eat an apple. Is the ingredient just 'apple', which I'm familiar with, or all the things that went into it?
05:45:21 <Sgeo_> And what happens if I see 'apple' on another ingredient list?
05:45:25 <Sgeo_> How deep do I have to go?
05:45:30 <Bike> i demand coyote shit be put on all ingredients lists
05:45:45 <newsham_> sgeo: if you want to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe
05:47:10 <newsham_> hah, ghcq implements orwell's telescreens
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06:36:19 <fizzie> Garbage collection headquarters.
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06:38:08 <ion> While I agree that it is good practice to check input data in SQL queries, php stops those kinds of injections per default. https://github.com/BarrensZeppelin/ltglan/issues/1
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06:42:17 <fizzie> ion: Let me guess, the uploaded fix is going to call some mysql_escape instead of using a parametrized query?
06:42:35 <ion> fizzie: In fact it seems it was. :-D
06:43:56 <fizzie> I can't really understand why php.net's documentation on mysql_real_escape_string doesn't mention parameters.
06:44:42 <fizzie> Except in a late user-contributed note.
06:44:52 <fizzie> (Then again, this is the language with magic_quotes.)
06:45:53 <oerjan> <ion> A flying squirrel was encountered on the sixth floor of a Finnish university. Photo: http://yle.fi/uutiset/todellinen_yllatys_yliopistolla__liito-orava_lensi_kuudenteen_kerrokseen/7111732 <-- are you _sure_ that's not a pokemon
06:47:26 <oerjan> or something escaped from a manga somewhere
06:50:03 <oerjan> damn it had been so silent the last days i thought the building craftsmen outside had finished their work, but no. (admittedly a car was suspiciously present.)
06:51:06 <oerjan> hm i'm not sure craftsmen is the right word.
06:51:39 <oerjan> they've done a lot of digging, sawing and hammering, though.
06:52:07 <Jafet> ion: https://github.com/BarrensZeppelin/ltglan/commit/071e9
06:54:10 <olsner> oh, apparently it's norwegian too
06:54:34 <olsner> oerjan: the PHP software with the bugs
06:54:51 <olsner> hmm, or possibly danish
06:55:29 <olsner> not sure how to tell written danish from norwegian
06:55:43 <oerjan> i can if you paste some
06:56:04 <olsner> "Opret en bruger og log ind først. :)"
06:56:33 <oerjan> norwegian would be "Opprett en bruker og logg inn først. :)"
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07:01:29 <oerjan> olsner: i think the general trick of "does it have single consonants where you'd expect double, and voiced consonants where you expect unvoiced" works for comparing with swedish as well?
07:03:11 <olsner> dunno, I just read it and see if it's swedish or not
07:03:30 <oerjan> i was trying to give you a method here, olsner
07:05:10 <oerjan> that is, both have strange vowels to a swede, but danish has stranger consonants.
07:05:55 <oerjan> in a sense that is "soft"
07:06:13 <olsner> oh, you meant for norwegian vs danish? I was talking about swedish/other things
07:06:37 <oerjan> well that's much easier :P
07:07:43 <oerjan> just look for åäö and lots of a in the last syllable of words
07:08:20 <oerjan> vs. æøå and nearly exclusively e
07:08:40 <Jafet> TIL danish :) is norwegian :)
07:08:54 <shachaf> oerjan: why would i expect double consonants
07:08:59 <olsner> I think ck instead of kk is swedish too
07:09:29 <oerjan> shachaf: i am comparing to swedish/norwegian, so you do need to know one of those first
07:09:38 <olsner> shachaf: to indicate vowel length
07:09:48 <oerjan> olsner: yeah, also x instead of ks
07:10:44 <oerjan> shachaf: not very well, maybe for testing the other way
07:10:50 <shachaf> Taneb: is that what they speak in old york
07:11:17 <shachaf> how am i supposed to guess that
07:11:19 <oerjan> also nynorsk messes up the vowels again, the a test triggers on that too.
07:11:52 <olsner> can't you just make up your minds on that whole nynorsk/bokmål thing already?
07:14:43 <oerjan> shachaf: but perhaps vaguely, if you have a commonly inherited word of the kind where english doubles the final consonant when adding an ending, then you would be more likely to find the consonant single in danish and double in swedish/norwegian. very vaguely.
07:15:23 <oerjan> like english stop/stopping, danish stop, swedish/norwegian stopp
07:19:09 <Sgeo_> "Agda safety: we last proved false on April 18th 2012 ."
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07:21:29 <kmc> when was the last time someone proved false in coq
07:22:46 <Sgeo_> No idea. I'm mostly hoping that Agda has comprehendible tutorials
07:23:56 <oerjan> <newsham_> earle grey + durian == durian grey tea?
07:24:02 * oerjan swats newsham_ -----###
07:25:42 <oerjan> <oklopol> would you eat an omena <-- probably not, sounds omenous
07:28:52 <oerjan> google pictures reveals the secret of omena
07:30:00 <oerjan> then google translate confirms
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07:40:47 <kmc> http://meatfighter.com/nintendotetrisai/ is impressive
07:42:34 <kmc> also i like how this subroutine AC82 implements a jump table in-line with code
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07:48:14 <fizzie> "So does the PHP opcode execute PHP code?"
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08:06:41 <HackEgo> convercoin schinedcoin lerarrowwongcoin eversitcoin falecoin condocoin ardcoin braincoin dupdoorcoin glashtfoylcoin 4dihycoin mercroncoin dificoin phedcoin lamberrectorcoin cipectcoin clubitcoin hysiacoin opecoin objectrancoin
08:07:50 <fizzie> Braincoins are all in your head.
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10:52:14 <oerjan> hm i install hlint and try it on my recent Tag2ResPair.hs, and the only suggestion is something i already decided against just to drop an import.
10:52:34 <oerjan> i guess my haskell isn't so bad.
11:10:27 <Bike> http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3611536 well that clears things up.
11:12:00 <Bike> that's paywalled isn't it, oh well http://pastebin.com/rNydqGG7
11:12:16 <oerjan> that was a pretty loud ad too
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12:54:41 <Bacta> How would you implement the loop construct for Brainfuck?
12:55:40 <myname> oh, last + is not even necessary
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12:55:54 <myname> i may not get the question, though
12:56:29 <Bacta> I'm writing a quick and dirty interpretter in Python :)
12:56:59 <Bacta> Basically when you have a [ you need to record it so you can jump back to it if the cell value is non-zero
12:57:12 <Bacta> Trying to think of a nice way of implementing that bit
12:57:50 <myname> push the adresse of [ on the stack
12:58:25 <myname> pop at ], jump at poped position if cell is not zero
12:58:39 <Bacta> That's exactly what I just read on Stackoverflow just now too
13:00:25 <Jafet> If your interpreter doesn't involve module re and eval, it isn't dirty
13:01:03 <HackEgo> trastrecoin backcoin bromereturniceredcoacherelairequecoin fracktrcoin catchcoin hanisorecoin cleacoin hydricucoin freimaccoin markgrassuscoin unweakcoin lord!cpucoin karacoin dingintercalambdocoin scoledcoin c-logycoin mdpncoin smahocoin infuchcoin haifausiocoin
13:02:44 <Jafet> cpucoin can only be mined by cpus
13:04:39 <Jafet> (Quiz: what distro do bitcoin miners use?)
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13:28:59 <fizzie> "bromereturniceredcoacherelairequecoin"
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13:39:59 <b_jonas> what? brome-return-ice-red-coacher-e-la-i-re-que-coin?
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13:42:06 <HackEgo> attacoin cunticoin ooederivitespringlencoin hargfcoin eviatefuccefcoin docurcoin rufacoin confimicoin emoontcoin coiucoin eviacoin goto++coin jumpcoin excelumcoin coolcoin fungecoin dcrabcoin hachcoin gemacoin miegnecoin
13:44:14 -!- mekeor has joined.
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13:45:19 <Jafet> Even though the sound of it is something quite too conjoin
13:53:26 <b_jonas> oo! eder vite springlen coin
13:54:55 <Jafet> Jumpcoin! Coolcoin; attacoin.
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13:55:48 <b_jonas> fungecoin probably has multiple dimensions
13:57:47 <int-e> attacoin sounds tidy.
13:58:20 <int-e> (but it might be an aggressive oin)
13:58:28 <b_jonas> here's some I got from a language model I trained to Hungarian: csúrdacoin ecoin vincssncoin surocoin acoin jajcoin tömdelcoin ídcoin megcoin acoin eecoin mothcoin nomagcoin rircoin szoúszobcoin kelyóezörgyecoin magosjántakcoin
13:58:33 <b_jonas> ogyitlamcoin boncoin opjácoin szetdicoin verkedcoin asláncoin szukbakjadsucoin fuzcoin mellbfcoin nepolorcoin dértentcoin enecoin kércoin erszecoin nakámcoin keddemcoin fuzjánbájtódcoin saraszcoin haldalcoin lagycoin rondcoin téleletcoin acoin dölbelelcoin taláncoin piszracoin bemcoin éstakcoin semcoin lelecoin holcoin vércoin szorötcoin iniscoin hermetincoin acoin agáryjecoin röspepfcoin mapnancoin közgemcoin zrcoin
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14:12:13 <fizzie> You can switch languages with `coins directly.
14:12:17 <HackEgo> coprinticoin escecoin colancilecoin rimentatocoin invecchicoin dipandogliacoin stavacoin uscollecoin pesecoin esplosecoin famentòcoin giunghicoin venereretecoin vertunacoin dubitersocoin sturbiterecoin seremmocoin rececoin tumultiacoin prosciatocoin
14:12:24 <HackEgo> valid datasets: --eng-1M --eng-all --eng-fiction --eng-gb --eng-us --french --german --hebrew --russian --spanish --irish --german-medical --bulgarian --catalan --swedish --brazilian --canadian-english-insane --manx --italian --ogerman --portuguese --polish --gaelic --finnish --norwegian --esolangs \ default: --eng-1M
14:12:43 <fizzie> To any of those; the default is --eng-1M --esolangs.
14:13:14 <HackEgo> standbestecoin bergrößecoin dikanneratenkworatcoin exekulattgruppecoin maschafecoin schwencoin stersatzcoin heanfangriftcoin eingengengeleuchencoin angcoin
14:13:32 <fizzie> At least bergrößecoin sounds q. impressive.
14:14:36 <fizzie> Entgegengegangen is a German word that looks p. silly when written out in cursive.
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14:16:14 <Bacta> My god Brainfuck is slow
14:16:21 <Bacta> Or maybe it's my implementation
14:16:26 <Jafet> Is kw even a valid sound in german
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14:17:17 <Jafet> I can't find any examples, not even in loanwords like http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superkalifragilistischexpiallegetisch
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14:19:29 <fizzie> Jafet: It might have come from an abbreviation like Nkw.
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14:20:17 <b_jonas> maybe it's multiple words, like dikanner-atenk-worat-coin
14:20:29 <b_jonas> though atenk is suspicious
14:21:00 <Jafet> tenk seems like a syllable that a computer might imagine to be valid
14:21:29 <fizzie> If it's character trigrams, like I remember, it won't have that much context.
14:22:41 <fizzie> Just needs .. "ate" "ten" "enk" "nkw" "kwo" "wor" .. to exist at least once in the dictionary in order for that to be possible to generate.
14:24:25 <Jafet> Bacta is observing the classic tradeoff between implementation complexity and performance.
14:24:53 <fizzie> And both nkw and kwo do appear: http://sprunge.us/jRWe
14:26:11 <Jafet> I would imagine that most german words are compound, due to combinatorics
14:26:56 <myname> kw wouldn't make sense in german, you would write qu
14:28:13 <Bacta> Jafet: There are no optimizations I can make to this code either...
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14:30:21 <fizzie> ^bf ++++++++++++++[>++++++++>+++++++>++++++++>++<<<<-]>>.>++.<-.++++++++.<--.>---.>+++.<---.<---.>>>++++.<<++++++.>--.>.<.<++++++.>>.<.<<+.>.>++++.
14:30:45 <myname> brainfuck isn't slow at all
14:30:54 <Slereah> Brainfuck has no random access memory
14:31:01 <Slereah> Hence it is pretty fucking slow
14:31:11 <myname> problem is, it needs pretty many commands to achieve stuff
14:31:47 <Bacta> Hah! But there are optimizations you can perform if you want to do more analysis of the source before you interpret it
14:32:23 <myname> i wrote a brainfuck interpreter in assembly, it wasn't slow at all
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14:32:36 <Slereah__> [15:31:34] <Slereah> I wonder, are there any optimized bf compilers?
14:32:37 <Slereah__> [15:31:45] <Slereah> Like translating ++++++++++++++ into pointer + whatever
14:32:37 <Slereah__> [15:31:51] <Slereah> And such things
14:32:52 <fizzie> There are quite many optimizing bf compilers.
14:32:59 <Jafet> Pretty much every brainfuck compiler that isn't a golf entry
14:33:31 <Jafet> Another standard optimization is for loops that have no net tape movement
14:34:21 <fizzie> https://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/ is one well-known optimizing compiler.
14:34:27 <Bacta> I'm assuming you can't do any parallelism given it's shared "memory"?
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14:35:54 <Jafet> Shared memory is not the problem for parallelism, the single instruction pointer is.
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14:37:48 <Jafet> If you are concerned about high performance in brainfuck, though
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14:39:47 <Slereah_> If you have parallel brainfuck on a single tape
14:39:47 <Slereah_> What happens when you have to branch!
14:39:47 <Slereah_> What if one tries to put in a 0 and the other encounters a ]
14:39:47 <Slereah_> How else will I code Crysis in Brainfuck otherwise
14:39:47 <Slereah_> I'm gonna need a pretty good Brainfuck video card
14:41:15 <b_jonas> Slereah_: try some extended brainfuck that lets you escape to native code, or a buggy brainfuck interpreter that doesn't check tape limits and lets you get control by smashing the stack or something
14:42:13 <Slereah_> The best idea would probably be not brainfuck
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14:42:42 <fizzie> That situation doesn't sound any different from plain old shared-memory parallelism you get on, you know, regular multicore computers.
14:43:04 <Jafet> What happens? MESI happens.
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14:52:00 <ais523> I had a sudden thought
14:52:09 <ais523> are brainfuck derivatives the same sort of concept as monad tutorials?
14:58:57 <Jafet> You mean, are they analogous to analogies?
15:01:49 <ais523> I meant more along the lines of "new person discovers «Haskell/esolangs», struggles for a while, thinks they understand «it/them» after some thought, writes a «monad tutorial/BF derivative»"
15:10:52 <Jafet> So a reverse shibboleth, if there is such a thing.
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18:56:50 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
19:13:07 <kmc> @ask zzo38 What do you think of the subroutine AC82 documented in http://meatfighter.com/nintendotetrisai/
19:13:47 <kmc> p. cool subroutine imo
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19:20:11 <kmc> i wonder if compilers for modern architectures ever do that
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19:28:08 <kmc> ARM has these table branch instructions (TBB / TBH) that you can use for a similar thing, by using the program counter (r15) as the table base
19:28:20 <kmc> and this is what gcc 4.6 does, according to http://gcc.godbolt.org/
19:29:32 <kmc> but even then it's only a 1 or 2 byte relative branch; for an arbitrary target you still need to branch to a branch instruction
19:32:21 <fizzie> Is there any particular benefit in sticking the jump table targets "inline", except maybe some cache locality matters for combined data/instruction ones?
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19:34:18 <kmc> you don't have to load the address of the jump table
19:35:32 <fizzie> I'd think that on x86-64 you could do just lea rX, [rip]; jmp [rX + K + 8*rY] followed by the table contents.
19:36:54 <fizzie> The call-pop construct gets criticized because it breaks the hardware-optimized return stack used for branch-predicting ret's targets.
19:37:10 <fizzie> (I assume that's not an issue on the 6502.)
19:37:17 <kmc> i suspect not :)
19:38:00 <kmc> though somebody has probably designed a superscalar OOE 6502 just for laffs
19:39:36 <kmc> `as86 lea rbx, [rip]; jmp [rbx+8*rax+4]
19:41:03 <fizzie> Oh, the rip-relative form always has a 32-bit displacement attached to it, I guess. :/
19:43:58 <fizzie> Well, you can move that 4-byte displacement into it, at least. But it's still one whopper of an instruction (pair).
19:50:13 <kmc> 7 bytes isn't that big by the standards of x86 instructions :)
19:52:02 -!- miguel has joined.
19:52:31 <miguel> hola alguna chica londa x aki
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19:54:03 <HackEgo> miguel: ¡Bienvenido al centro internacional para el diseño y despliegue de lenguajes de programación esotéricos! Por desgracia, la mayoría de nosotros no hablamos español. Para obtener más información, echa un vistazo a nuestro wiki: http://esolangs.org/. (Para el otro tipo de esoterismo, prueba #esoteric en irc.dal.net.)
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19:54:33 <`^_^v> he was just looking for a hot girl
19:54:43 <`^_^v> i dont think he cared about programming languages
19:54:58 <oerjan> indeed. `bienvenido is so efficient.
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19:57:06 * oerjan briefly wonders if oteric means something suspicious in es-pañol, but google doesn't know about it
19:57:21 <oerjan> including with -o/a appended
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19:59:05 <kmc> what is the "x" meant to stand for in that sentence
19:59:51 <oerjan> was wondering about that too. i was guessing "exista" or thereabouts
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20:00:27 <kmc> that's a stretch for "equis"
20:00:34 <`^_^v> x is slang for por
20:00:37 <kmc> but I'm not a spanish speaking 14 year old in search of a chica linda
20:01:20 <oerjan> well he said "aki" so obviously he doesn't care about spelling
20:01:44 <`^_^v> because x is like multiplication and 2 x 2 is pronounced dos por dos
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20:01:50 <oerjan> i don't exactly know spanish chatting slang
20:02:09 <`^_^v> i only know from video game servers
20:02:20 <oerjan> um what's equis supposed to mean
20:02:30 <`^_^v> spanish people really like ragnarok online
20:03:39 <Slereah_> How can I fuck around in x86-64
20:03:39 <kmc> oerjan: spanish name for the letter "x"
20:03:49 <kmc> Slereah_: how do you mean
20:03:56 <Slereah_> Like a virtual machine that boots on some program in x86-64 that I write
20:04:10 <kmc> Slereah_: you want to run code without an OS?
20:04:19 <kmc> it's... complicated
20:04:28 <kmc> i'm gonna dump some links at you
20:04:40 <Slereah_> Or at least a non-obtrusive OS
20:05:07 <elliott> be careful what you wish for
20:05:18 <kmc> http://wiki.osdev.org/Main_Page http://www.returninfinity.com/pure64.html http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/6.828/2012/
20:05:44 <elliott> I guess http://www.templeos.org/Wb/Accts/TS/Wb2/TempleOS.html is the slightly less useful link now
20:06:02 <kmc> Slereah_: what means "obtrusive"? you can write x86-64 assembly for Linux pretty easily, and it's much less work to make something cool than doing it on "bare metal"
20:06:06 <Slereah_> I do like coding in x86, but I do want to try out some x64 too
20:06:35 <Slereah_> For a start it has more bloody registers.
20:06:44 <Slereah_> kmc : Doesn't the OS block a bunch of things?
20:07:02 <kmc> in some sense an OS is the opposite of obtrusive... it provides the illusion of a machine much simpler and more capable than the "real thing"
20:07:05 <kmc> Slereah_: like what?
20:07:20 <Slereah_> Access to ports, parts of the memory, self modifying code
20:09:08 <kmc> you can usually opt into self-modifying code
20:09:21 <kmc> (it's disabled by default for security reasons)
20:09:23 <fizzie> Direct access to hardware, yes (for some values of), but that's only a problem if you really fancy writing drivers.
20:09:59 <kmc> you will find that things are fantastically complicated and it will be an extreme amount of effort to make anything work at all
20:10:09 <kmc> I don't mean to discourage you but you should know what you're getting into
20:10:19 <Slereah_> Well I am already coding things in x86
20:10:33 <kmc> the "platform" is far more complex than the instruction set itself
20:10:47 <kmc> an OS hides that complexity and gives you a simple more friendly platform
20:10:51 <elliott> simple osdev isn't really that difficult, just very tedious and annoying
20:11:25 <Slereah_> I just kinda like trying to do things from the ground up
20:11:48 <Bike> http://davidad.github.io/blog/2014/02/18/kernel-from-scratch/ Slereah_
20:11:52 <kmc> Slereah_: get to the silicon mines then ;)
20:12:23 <Bike> silicone and silicon are not the same ._.
20:12:26 <kmc> Bike: nice
20:12:46 <Slereah_> In French, silicone is silicone
20:12:54 <Bike> is here where i mention that the Czochralski process is really cool
20:13:00 <kmc> one problem is that the BIOS (which is basically an OS/library in ROM) becomes much harder to access once you leave real mode
20:13:15 <kmc> which makes doing any kind of I/O a lot harder
20:13:21 <Slereah_> Although I wouldn't mind building my own little computer, I don't think I could build much
20:13:21 <Bike> "aren't you sposed to use UEFI now"
20:13:44 <kmc> Slereah_: you might like those MIT courses 6.828 and 6.004
20:13:53 <kmc> in the former you write large parts of a kernel
20:13:58 <Slereah_> What kind of computer can you build from off the shelf electronic components?
20:14:00 <kmc> in the latter you design a processor at the logic gate level and then optimize it
20:14:17 <Slereah_> They're way too fucking big to do much with
20:14:47 <Slereah_> Maybe I could make a tiny Brainfuck computer
20:14:53 <Bike> You can get computers from shelves.
20:14:56 <kmc> you can find many projects online of people building computers from discrete logic chips
20:15:02 <kmc> they are usually simple 8-bit things
20:15:13 <kmc> but you can make a "real CPU" with arithmetic, branching, etc.
20:15:39 <kmc> I heard somebody actually breadboarded the 6.004 processor at one point
20:15:53 <kmc> which is like a 32-bit version of the Alpha (simplified further I'm sure)
20:15:55 <Slereah_> Is that a torture method where they drown you in dough?
20:16:54 <Bike> why was my first thought on hwo to explain breadboards 'well, imagine a cribbage board, and'
20:16:57 <kmc> anyway I strongly recommend learning x86-64 assembly in friendly userspace before you try to write an OS
20:17:08 <kmc> also you might want to write most of the OS in a higher level language anyway
20:18:01 <Slereah_> Also yeah I guess I might want to just write some stuff in C and then half-compile it and look at the assembly file
20:18:17 <fizzie> If you're writing without one, whatever you write is arguably an OS.
20:18:23 <kmc> Slereah_: have you seen http://gcc.godbolt.org/
20:18:49 <Slereah_> Well I don't plan to do any threads or file management or spinning skulls
20:19:01 <kmc> if you don't have any spinning skulls then what's even the point?
20:19:16 <Bike> clearly you should write an OS designed for GPUs
20:19:22 <kmc> be sure to try the "Colourise" button
20:20:04 <Slereah_> http://www.gifmix.net/gif.php?image=skull-gifs/TOTENKOPF047.GIF
20:20:19 <Slereah_> http://www.mytinyphone.com/uploads/users/cacique/101455.gif
20:26:05 <FireFly> <Slereah_> And silicone is silicium
20:26:07 <fizzie> Yes, the web is certainly worse off now that every page doesn't have a http://www.jadefrolics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/under-construction-sign-animated1.gif in it.
20:26:33 <FireFly> The whole silicon/e thing in english took me a while to understand
20:26:53 <fizzie> "kisel (plural kisels): A dessert, an acidulated jelly, made by cooking fruit or berry juice, milk or water, and flour, common in Slavic and Baltic countries as well as Finland."
20:26:58 <Slereah_> fizzie : Also the little gif of a letter going into an enveloppe and into a mailbox
20:28:03 <fizzie> Silicon is, for whatever reason, "pii" in Finnish.
20:29:12 <Bike> Looks like the etymology of "silicone" is dumb. It's a siloxane, not a ketone...
20:29:42 <Slereah_> Well crystal doesn't have a crystaline structure!
20:30:42 <Slereah_> And neutrinos aren't small neutrons!
20:31:41 <Bike> They are small and neutral, though.
20:39:03 <fizzie> As far as I can figure out, the etymology for the Finnish "pii" for silicon comes from the fact that "pii" had a (now no longer used) meaning of 'tooth' or any sort of spike in a tool, so a type of flint useful for toolmaking got called "piikivi" ("kivi" being rock/stone), and those contain silicon compounds.
20:40:06 <Slereah_> da piikivi being of course an anagram of wikipedia
20:41:06 <fizzie> There's a "Finnish version" of Uncyclopedia called Hikipedia (lit. "Sweat-pedia").
20:41:45 -!- Speed`` has changed nick to Speed`.
20:43:41 <Bike> 'Sir Humphry Davy proposed the name "silicium" for silicon, from the Latin silex, silicis for flint, flints, and adding the "-ium" ending because he believed it was a metal' argh
20:43:47 <Bike> well, whatever, it's not as bad as hydrogen.
20:44:33 <fizzie> Bike: Metals, metalloids, who cares.
20:44:59 <Slereah_> also I'm pretty sure back in the days, "metal" had a different definition
20:45:24 <Slereah_> "The meaning of "metal" differs for various communities. For example, astronomers use the blanket term "metal" for convenience to collectively describe all elements other than hydrogen and helium "
20:47:56 <Slereah_> And of course, diamond is the hardest metal
20:48:53 <fizzie> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SiliconCroda.jpg to be fair, that does look p. metal.
20:49:50 <Bike> really i'm more annoyed at silicone. chemist really ought to not just name something as a ketone because it's vaguely analogous to a ketone
20:50:38 <Slereah_> Systematic names in chemistry is a pretty recent thing anyway
20:51:44 <oerjan> `addquote <Slereah_> And neutrinos aren't small neutrons! <Bike> They are small and neutral, though. <Slereah_> So is Switzerland
20:51:46 <HackEgo> 1171) <Slereah_> And neutrinos aren't small neutrons! <Bike> They are small and neutral, though. <Slereah_> So is Switzerland
20:52:10 <fizzie> oerjan: Also known as "Switzerino".
20:52:39 <Bike> he named it after benzophenone. that's not IUPAC systematic but it's still proto-system.
20:52:40 <fizzie> (Actually, that sounds like a derogatory term.)
20:55:32 <oerjan> iirc metal is from the greek for mine
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21:11:53 <nortti> seems like it https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%CE%BC%CE%AD%CF%84%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%BB%CE%BF%CE%BD#Ancient_Greek
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22:07:49 <kmc> you know what's bad? that gasoline is called "benzene" or "naptha" in some countries/languages
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22:13:23 <ais523> happy Australian mailman mailing list reminders day!
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22:16:12 <ais523> the "<ais523> happy Australian mailman mailing list reminders day!" thing?
22:16:36 <ais523> it's a joke #esoteric tradition; the mailing list server software Mailman send out reminders on the first of every month
22:16:38 <Bike> kmc: what? whyyyy
22:16:45 <ais523> and several of us are subscribed to Mailman mailing lists hosted in Australia
22:16:55 <ais523> so the reminders come out on the last of every month instead
22:17:12 <Bike> is that actually the active component there? i thought in us gasoline at least it was octane
22:18:15 <ais523> I think octane's the largest component of most gasoline/petrol
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22:48:15 <coppro> man, is it mailman day already?
22:48:39 <newsham_> mine is the TUHS mailing list (also .au)
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22:55:15 <fizzie> Bike: It's "bensiini"/"bensa" in Finnish, and yes, it's probably not a good name.
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22:58:51 <fizzie> "Etymology: From Swedish /bensin/, from German /Benzin/, from benzoe + -in." So it's not our fault!
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23:40:01 <scarf> Freenode's having fun today, I see :-)
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