00:05:17 -!- Phantoom_Hoover has quit (Quit: Leaving). 00:32:57 * Taneb -> bed 00:38:57 -!- tromp has joined. 00:51:03 -!- boily has quit (Quit: ORTHONORMAL CHICKEN). 00:56:11 [wiki] [[Ax]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39336&oldid=39313 * Oerjan * (+1) Let's compromise on the spelling 00:58:52 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:01:22 [wiki] [[Brainfuck implementations]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39337&oldid=39318 * Oerjan * (+13) I think a TOC is appropriate for this article even with just 3 sections 01:01:30 Axthetic 01:03:42 also: what the hell is Ax 01:06:00 [wiki] [[Keya]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39338&oldid=39321 * Oerjan * (+15) wikitable and some rephrasing for grammar/consistency 01:06:16 i dunno it was just added 01:06:29 i don't understand that article 01:07:20 -!- cdchawthorne has quit (Quit: leaving). 01:07:35 i didn't particularly try to read it 01:07:41 okay 01:07:43 don't 01:19:37 [wiki] [[SSBPL]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39339&oldid=31003 * Oerjan * (+48) wikitable, add spaces to avoid accidental table markup, consistent capitalization 01:21:14 I hope my defense of lens in concatenative was adequate/sane 01:21:34 http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/concatenative/14.04.15 01:21:57 -!- nisstyre has joined. 01:23:06 [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39340&oldid=39333 * Oerjan * (+67) Add [[User:EzoLang]]'s list of languages 01:23:28 don't argue with evincar 01:29:55 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 01:30:30 -!- tromp has joined. 01:34:51 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:42:48 -!- jjcoppro has changed nick to coppro. 01:54:17 -!- tertu has joined. 02:07:45 -!- nisstyre has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 02:28:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 02:33:34 -!- JesseH2 has joined. 02:33:41 -!- nooodl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 02:36:21 -!- LucienG has joined. 02:36:23 p/ 02:36:33 (lpghatguy) 02:36:46 Okay 02:39:06 Hmm, the numbers here seem wrong http://primes.utm.edu/mersenne/LukeMirror/lit/lit_039s.htm 02:40:40 (Table 1 supposedly shows the values of (3^(2^(2^n-1)) mod (2^(2^n)+1)) mod 2^36, 2^36-1, 2^35-1 for several n.) 02:48:30 Sup LucienG 03:04:32 `coins 03:04:34 audacoin easyendocoin sardinalcoin bacacoin soundedintercoin gooilcoin crtlasscoin codentaurehecoin iotcoin addlecocoin forceiccoin factcoin datedcoin paracoin ringthesquecoin ungecoin heitkeecoin daturncoin varocoin comcoin 03:09:54 -!- JesseH2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 03:20:29 -!- LucienG has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 03:50:11 https://www.mashape.com/nsure-io/porn-filter#!endpoint-porn this is the best startup ever 04:05:58 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 04:07:11 -!- tromp has joined. 04:18:56 [wiki] [[Boxy]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39341&oldid=39335 * Zerk * (+391) Ints should not pattern-match as vectors. (So *that*'s why I had it that way initially!) 04:51:51 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/234iem/bitundo_allowing_you_to_undo_bitcoin_transactions/ 04:58:21 Nice 05:04:48 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 05:05:16 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:43:46 so some people are signing up to a mining pool with the purpose of destroying transactions? 05:46:32 damn right 05:47:08 i guess btc has hit the big time 05:57:40 -!- password2 has joined. 06:02:08 -!- tromp has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:02:41 -!- tromp has joined. 06:02:41 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: bbl). 06:02:57 Is monad-peel obsolete? 06:03:03 I should learn how those sorts of things work 06:05:11 -!- shikhin has joined. 06:07:12 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 06:49:35 -!- shikhin has quit (Read error: No route to host). 06:50:18 -!- AndroidKitKat has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:51:12 -!- shikhin has joined. 07:06:07 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:29:30 -!- ^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:47:13 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 08:09:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:20:15 hi Taneb 08:24:35 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has joined. 08:24:35 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:27:55 Hi shachaf 08:28:58 i was just looking through old files and i found this line: "Oh, well *all* know that; / But it's undeniable Tom has the better hat." 08:29:02 good times 08:41:05 Indeed/ 08:41:11 Anyway, I have a movie to see 08:41:13 Bye! 09:05:06 -!- tromp has joined. 09:10:03 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 09:21:22 -!- xpte has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 09:40:09 -!- newsham has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:40:25 -!- newsham has joined. 09:40:40 do you have an implementation for maintaining some kind of balanced search tree in a database using triggers, where the search tree lets you search among rows of a particular table according to a key column? 09:41:47 Is this the setup of a "database in your database" joke? 09:43:24 fizzie: sort of... but not quite 09:44:41 database in database is different, that'd be when you store the raw representation of database not in a few files on the filesystem but instead in a few blobs in another database. 09:45:22 if there's an implementation of such a search tree already, I'd like to look at it 09:45:51 if there isn't, then I'll think of whether it's possible to implement it, probably using a treap, and maybe even try an implementation 09:47:27 If it is made out of relations, are you allowed to call it a family tree? 09:47:45 I tried to figure out an X-in-your-X format thing referring to putting a handcrafted index into a database system (presumably) supporting indices, but couldn't. 09:48:26 fizzie: the database would have to support some form of indexes for this to work in first place, 09:48:50 but this way you could implement more powerful indexes and indexed queries than what the database supports 09:49:01 (also much slower). 09:49:21 It sounds the kind of thing you'd find zzo38 doing in SQLite. 09:50:00 fizzie: I should ask zzo38 then? ok 09:58:13 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:01:20 -!- nooodl has joined. 10:16:38 -!- yorick has joined. 10:17:27 -!- boily has joined. 10:27:37 -!- metasepia has joined. 10:52:16 -!- shikhout has joined. 10:55:14 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 10:55:14 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 10:58:50 -!- nucular has joined. 10:58:50 -!- nucular has quit (Changing host). 10:58:50 -!- nucular has joined. 11:00:56 -!- boily has quit (Quit: METHYLATED CHICKEN). 11:00:58 -!- metasepia has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 11:01:32 mona 250b intro for Atari 8-bit http://youtu.be/0NHaFS9YJBE 11:35:18 http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/234iem/bitundo_allowing_you_to_undo_bitcoin_transactions/cgtoivc bitcoiners ignorant of game theory, tragedy of commons; news at 11 11:41:49 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:45:15 now that I've heared of cobol PICTURE codes, I wonder if our galactic sector ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha was named of one 11:46:58 -!- conehead has joined. 12:11:13 so i went to a prof today asking for a bachelor thesis i could make 12:11:27 mentioned i like esoteric languages 12:11:45 i could make a compiler as a thesis project 12:12:46 what language could i choose? also: would my own language (wolfgang) be possible without that much work? 12:13:37 bffc could use some optimizations 12:14:01 come on, be serious 12:17:13 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:02:33 -!- Sorella has joined. 13:30:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:40:38 what is bffc 13:41:55 wolfgang looks immineNtly compilable 13:43:32 why the fuck was the 'previously closed tabs' thing removed from chrome 13:43:36 it was so useful 13:44:52 ah that's why i've been unable to undo tab closure hmm 13:45:04 yeah i agree chrome just isn't as awesome as it used to be 13:57:49 * oerjan thinks Phantom_Hoover could possibly approve of today's xkcd. 13:58:03 it's true 13:58:23 although ksp isn't that representative of real-world orbital mechanics 14:01:31 Phantom_Hoover: it's in history now I think 14:02:02 i don't see anything there... 14:02:02 -!- Tritonio has joined. 14:02:18 ah, it's under The Menu now 14:03:36 i still can't get over them wasting half the new tab page on a completely redundant google search box 14:03:53 i swear they used to be good at ui design 14:06:08 -!- password2 has joined. 14:06:44 -!- password2 has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 14:07:31 -!- password2 has joined. 14:16:37 "Right, but miners wouldn't want transaction reversal to become a problem for the network because it would destroy the value of Bitcoin (and thus their ASICs)." amazing 14:17:06 -!- Patashu[Zzz] has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:18:30 http://arxiv.org/abs/1308.5164 this has a certain charm :3 14:18:53 plus it's even by a hungarian 14:54:39 [wiki] [[Talk:Eodermdrome]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39342&oldid=35357 * GreyKnight * (+399) /* multiple matches */ new section 14:55:41 uh oh 14:55:46 looks like someone is trying to implement eodermdrome. 14:57:50 scary stuff 14:58:36 [wiki] [[Talk:Eodermdrome]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39343&oldid=39342 * Phantom Hoover * (+177) /* multiple matches */ 15:02:24 oerjan: suggest a language i could write a compiler for, which is not awfully hard! 15:02:44 well now that eodermdrome is taken... 15:03:31 :D 15:03:44 we don't know he's making a compiler! 15:03:57 true 15:04:07 (in fact i haven't even looked at the page) 15:04:39 eodermdrome looks pretty hard at first sight. that may be because i didn't fully understand it 15:05:07 it's a timey-wimey graph of ...stuff. 15:05:12 or was that feather. 15:06:06 i don't think that claiming i will write a feather compiler does not work as bachelor thesis 15:12:19 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 15:25:10 myname, eodermdrome's main problem, afaiu, is efficiently implementing the subgraph match algorithm 15:25:23 myname: if you invent time travel and all you get for it is a bachelor thesis then you've done something wrong ;) 15:25:31 Phantom_Hoover: true 15:25:47 int-e: i'd rather implement twoducks, then 15:26:15 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Later). 15:43:05 how long has bf been the featured language now? it seems like ages 15:43:10 i wish it changed monthly 15:48:59 -!- ^v has joined. 15:54:07 You can make it change by making sure there is a good article about a language, and then suggesting it as featured. 15:54:14 Or that's my understanding, anyway. 15:56:47 -!- JesseH has joined. 15:58:21 -!- Tritonio has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:05:06 -!- password2 has joined. 16:11:33 -!- JesseH has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:39:22 -!- xpte has joined. 16:42:04 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:43:22 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:46:18 -!- Sprockle1 has joined. 16:47:15 -!- JesseH has joined. 16:50:14 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 16:50:24 int-e: i'd rather implement twoducks, then 16:50:33 you could totally implement twoducks by backtracking 16:51:27 how do i make that programm that prints the sum of two numbers before it asks for them 16:52:25 -!- shikhout has joined. 16:54:56 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 16:54:57 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 16:56:10 -!- nucular has changed nick to nuculaway. 16:58:11 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: freenode). 16:58:11 -!- Sprockle1 has quit (Quit: freenode). 16:58:34 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 16:58:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Client Quit). 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has joined. 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has quit (Changing host). 16:58:57 -!- Guest72113 has joined. 16:59:40 -!- Guest72113 has quit (Client Quit). 17:05:38 printf("4\nPlease enter 2 and 2:\n"); 17:07:55 yeah, no 17:10:18 if you're doing it as a thesis, shouldn't it be awfully hard 17:10:44 not for a bachelor 17:20:45 -!- Sprocklem_ has joined. 17:21:25 -!- Sprocklem_ has changed nick to Sprocklem. 17:22:34 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:28:08 -!- nuculaway has changed nick to nucular. 17:28:50 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 17:29:05 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 17:35:37 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: leaving). 18:06:52 myname: have it print a random number. then, ask for input. if the numbers don't add up to the output number, destroy the universe. if the multiverse theory is true, anyone who observes the functioning of your program (which correspond to those living in universes that picked the right numbers) will see that it functions correctly. 18:07:20 interesting idea 18:07:28 -!- FreeFull has joined. 18:07:36 (It is probably mroally required here to remind users that entering values which do not sum to the printed value will result in their immediate nonexistence. This will have the beneficial side effect of increasing the number of universes in which the program succeeds.) 18:08:20 but more people will questioning if it really works 18:09:13 well, they are more than welcome to test it if they don't mind having the blood of who knows how many entire species on their hands! 18:09:52 which may result in even less universes in which the program succeeds 18:10:01 it's going to be awkward if your prng isn't actually based on wavefunction collapse to any great extent and you destroy everything 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Changing host). 18:10:06 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:10:43 yes it is critical that you use a real RNG. sample the CMBR or something 18:13:32 that collapses a wavefunction? 18:15:47 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 18:18:51 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:28:56 -!- augur has joined. 18:29:31 the idea of waveform collapse is kind of antithetical to many-worlds 18:30:02 anything that differentiates one universe from another will do 18:31:37 I thought the idea was that wavefunction collapse was actually the observer wavefunction being entangled (entrained?) with the observed wavefunction, so that probability amplitudes outside a particular basis are no longer observed 18:31:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:32:27 yeah that's pretty much it. but that's not really a "collapse" of the wavefunction. More of a refactoring. 18:32:38 i just mean something that looks like a collapse. 18:32:44 ah 18:32:54 there't nothing terribly quantum if i get a RNG by sampling microweather or whatever 18:34:02 Well technically there is 18:34:10 Since all matter is quantum 18:34:14 yes, yes 18:34:14 the CMBR reflects the interactions of the matter of the universe at the timescale of yoctoseconds after the big bang or something like that. it should have plenty of distinguishing power between universes 18:34:25 Whaaat 18:34:29 Isn't that too far back though 18:34:36 The CMB is from like 300.000 years after the big bang 18:34:41 I mean you want to keep universes that are mostly like this one 18:34:55 Slereah_: oh. damn. may not be useful then. 18:35:01 If the only remaining universes after your twoducks program are ones where triple alpha never happened to happen or something you'd have a problem! 18:35:05 well, you wouldn't, since you wouldn't exist 18:35:33 Two Duck probably wouldn't work with a physical implementation 18:35:40 it's pretty sad to know if anyone who actually knew quantum physics was here they'd be shuddering at me 18:35:43 Bike: well, what your observation of the CMBR would really differentiate between is microweather state like you said, but also the time at which you chose to make the observation. 18:35:44 But that depends on how you implement time travel 18:35:50 I know QM! 18:36:45 The best thing about time travel is that it makes general relativity non-deterministic technically 18:36:47 Slereah_: suggest a random number mechanism that would distinguish between similar universes 18:37:40 I don't know that much about MWI 18:37:45 quintopia: https://photonics.anu.edu.au/qoptics/Research/qrng.php 18:37:48 But since it is deterministic, I guess none 18:38:22 ...good point. 18:38:30 "Suggest a RNG that would make it look like we're distinguishing between similar universes to an entangled observer" 18:38:45 actually, that kind of fucks up the whole 'destroy the universe' joke, doesn't it, since you don't really have multiple universes per se 18:39:09 well better to make it physically accurate than funny :) 18:39:15 a thing to remember is that quantum interpretations are not actually physics 18:39:19 They are metaphysics 18:39:26 http://qrng.anu.edu.au/ i like how there's actually several of these 18:39:46 -!- FreeFull has quit (Quit: Starting tmux). 18:39:51 Also "random" can also depend on metaphysical points 18:40:28 i tried reading everett's thesis once but it turns out ui don't know any physics 18:40:41 random is not the important thing. the important thing is that it be something that is different in universes where different people are likely to pick different numbers. 18:41:10 not the same across all universes that contain people 18:41:11 Well between two different universe there will be at least one quantum measurement differing 18:41:12 I think 18:41:39 wait so is mwi based on there being "actual" multiple universes or not. 18:41:47 Define "actual" 18:41:56 there is not "one" monolithic mwi 18:42:37 The point is that quantum theory, due to various experiments, has found out that the theory cannot be, at the same time, local, deterministic and unique 18:42:46 i'm trying to base my understanding on everett since it seems unlikely he said something dumb, unlike "what the bleep do we know" and suchlike 18:43:39 ie it can't respect relativity in every aspect (not allowing instantaneous action at a distance), have the same results for the same events and be in one universe 18:43:49 i guess it's like, is mwi is based on there being one universal wavefunction, and what we observe as wavefunction collapse is locking ourselves (as subfunctions) into a particular basis wrt the observed 18:43:53 Copenhagen isn't deterministic, Bohm isn't local and MWI isn't unique 18:44:01 And there's a bunch of others that break one of these 18:44:06 but all the "other universes" are just parts of the wavefunction in different bases 19:07:06 -!- nortti has changed nick to lawspeaker. 19:07:13 -!- lawspeaker has changed nick to nortti. 19:07:25 -!- password2 has joined. 19:13:25 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 19:15:48 -!- FreeFull has joined. 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 19:16:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 19:24:16 wow, this channel has discussions on strange topics 19:25:12 Hell I could talk about time travel physics for hours <3 19:25:47 I should try implementing an interpreter for a twoduck-like someday 19:25:56 Like a quantum computer that allows closed timelike curves 19:25:58 few things are more esoteric than quantum mechanics 19:26:11 But damn it's not gonna be easy 19:26:28 myname: BSc thesis in what science? and you want a compiler from or to an esoteric language? 19:26:47 I guess you'd basically have to run the program over his entire timeline 19:26:48 Hm 19:27:00 Maybe there's a way to do it for all programs, but like 19:27:13 Doing it for a machines where the halting problem is decidable 19:27:24 Like a Two Duck automaton 19:27:48 b_jonas: computer science 19:28:02 b_jonas: from would be more useful, i assue 19:28:05 * 19:28:06 *m 19:28:19 I see 19:29:23 I remember someone wrote a compiler for K (the APL-like language) as his PhD thesis. That's of course impossible, because you can write stuff in K that's so dynamic that there's no chance to determine anything in advance, 19:29:38 K is a pun on J? 19:29:55 K? 19:30:02 but he wrote a compiler that tries to figure out as much as possible about the data types and other invariants, and compile what it could. 19:30:26 myname: probably. or maybe APLers just like brevity and so they choose single-letter names 19:30:33 What is K 19:30:34 b_jonas: i am aiming a bit lower than that 19:30:43 Slereah_: it's a semi-successful APL-like language of whose derivative Q is used in business 19:30:49 I'm not sure which of K or Q this guy compiled 19:31:06 i neither knew K nor Q but J 19:31:22 What about C 19:31:24 Slereah_: it's an APL-like that tries to be efficient so it like doesn't check overflow and doesn't upgrade values to larger types when they overflow, etc 19:31:50 Then why use an APL like and not C 19:31:50 has lambdas, has a smaller set of primitives than C, fewer higher order functions, 19:31:54 s/C/J/ sorry 19:32:02 and stuff 19:32:30 So anyway 19:32:32 Thinking 'bout it 19:32:43 I think doing a two-duck like should be doable to implement 19:32:47 For a machine that always halts 19:32:51 also it semantically has only rank 1 inhomogenous array, though homogenous and higher rank arrays are stored in an optimized fashion. 19:33:06 Using the Novikov principle, to avoid weird time travel stuff 19:33:17 You calculate the entire program in advance 19:33:30 And then output each time slice sequentially 19:34:21 Slereah_: that still won't do with IO 19:34:45 Well you don't need IO 19:34:48 Or just use output 19:34:53 http://www.theallium.com/science-life/scientists-reportedly-close-to-finding-a-use-for-linkedin/ 19:35:00 what's two-duck? 19:35:03 what fun is that 19:35:19 Well I don't think I can write an interpreter to communicate with the past unfortunately 19:35:27 b_jonas: http://esolangs.org/wiki/TwoDucks 19:35:28 Two-Duck is a time travel based esoland 19:35:36 If you get the pun congrats 19:35:53 i don't 19:36:25 It is 19:36:29 TIME PAIR OF DUCKS 19:36:34 what 19:37:04 that sounds invader zimish 19:37:19 (paradox) 19:38:23 I See 19:39:37 With a quantum computer kind of thing it should be mostly paradox free 19:40:17 no way. two duck is much more powerful than a quantum computer. 19:40:44 Well that's because it allows timeline alterations 19:41:06 duh 19:41:07 But if you go the David Deutsch way, it only allows for consistent timelines 19:41:17 without tiem travel it would be just an ordinary language 19:41:29 And the quantum states sent along closed timelike curves become mixed 19:46:07 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 20:00:41 perhaps bonghits will fix my time paradox 20:01:50 kmc : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVL1crIccRI 20:02:38 so, no specific language idea for me? 20:03:26 What are you looking for 20:03:57 something to write a compiler for with a fair amount of work 20:04:45 Well I'm just gonna pimp my own language I guess : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp 20:04:46 :D 20:04:57 And I was too lazy to implement that one 20:05:39 i thought about my own language as well, but i am quite unsure how hard it would be 20:06:29 Also define "a fair amount of work" 20:06:54 well, i want to make it a bachelor thesis 20:08:22 Any particular preference? 20:08:32 Like functional or procedural or whatevs 20:09:02 i do think procedural are a lot easier to compile (at least if i want to compile to c or assembly) 20:09:12 It tends to be yeah 20:09:25 Cellular automatons also aren't too hard 20:09:44 like which language? 20:09:58 Game of life 20:10:07 The electronic-based one, I forget which 20:10:13 The rule 110 automaton! 20:10:21 electronic-based? you mean von neumann's? 20:10:23 The ant-based one 20:10:25 Maybe? 20:10:31 conway's 20:10:33 wireworld 20:10:38 Yeah, wireworld 20:10:39 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:VonNeumann_CA_demo.gif 20:10:41 Pulsin' 20:11:18 bullying automatons are fun, too 20:11:21 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 20:12:21 Bullying isn't cool myname 20:12:24 but they may be really hard to compile 20:13:09 Slereah_: i don't get what's special about limp 20:13:15 except its name 20:13:17 Nothing 20:13:21 But it is miiiine~ 20:13:34 it looks funny 20:13:35 Basically I just mashed a lot of the functional languages together 20:13:58 Also a lot of the greek letter based one 20:14:00 Hence the name 20:18:18 What about pi calculus? 20:18:19 Like 20:18:25 Implement it with actual parallelism 20:18:31 That might be hard 20:18:51 The ant-based one 20:18:55 langton's ant? 20:19:07 yep 20:19:24 Like make a pi calculus language for some quadcore processor 20:19:48 what the heck is pi calculus? 20:20:05 Pi calculus is the abstraction of parallel computing 20:21:18 imo digamma calculus 20:44:49 i read (part of) djb's paper "Understanding brute force" last night 20:45:20 it's about how a parallel computer can do brute force key search at a much better price:performance ratio than a serial computer 20:45:30 and complaining that cryptographers often ignore this fact 20:46:05 this is true even in a theoretical model which lacks some of the engineering factors that make parallel computers better in the real world 20:47:01 I think a lot of it comes down to, if you have a huge amount of memory then you should have a proportional amount of cores, otherwise you are not using the memory very efficiently 20:47:45 Memory is dirth cheap today though 20:47:50 Disproportionately to CPUs 20:48:45 it is also slow 20:49:01 Also shitty BUSs 20:49:21 Hey do you remember that episode of the Magic School Bus on computers? 20:49:21 -!- password2 has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:49:26 The bus was driving on the BUS! 20:49:27 no 20:49:58 Slereah_: general purpose CPU cores are complicated and expensive, but a circuit that just does AES and talks to some local memory is tiny and you can fabricate a lot of them on a single wafer 20:50:09 and in this machine they're only connected to their neighbors 20:50:10 -!- nucular has quit (Quit: Switching to phone). 20:50:17 and the interconnect doesn't need to be super fast 20:50:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:50:51 imagine if you had one small cpu per 64k (or so) of your 4-8GB ram, that's ~half a shitload of cpus 20:51:06 bet it could play crysis though 20:51:09 if you're in the realm where a brute force attack on AES is remotely plausible then you're talking about spending billions of dollars on fully custom hardware 20:52:38 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:52:52 that reminds me, anybody got any good examples for this http://mnxmnkmnd.tumblr.com/post/82876163079/dead-theories 20:52:59 -!- ^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/DrFFzea.png). 20:55:36 "one small cpu" that's starting to sound like the GA144. 20:56:22 Maybe it doesn't have quite that many CPUs, and they're p. small. 20:57:17 ooh, is this a flow computer 20:58:17 Bike : Platonic physics! 20:58:21 It is way wrong 20:58:29 But that was the pre-experimental era of physics 20:58:29 i don't know any. 20:58:35 i know some about aristotle's. 20:58:43 Oh yeah, Aristotle 20:58:57 with the whole, what was it, things keep moving because of wind 20:59:01 I can't think of too many theories that are way wrong? 20:59:01 "Oh yeah, Aristotle" makes it sound like you knew him personally. 20:59:15 I mean there's some charmingly old timey ones 20:59:19 Like ring-shaped electrons 20:59:40 and yeah, i was trying to exclude classical science, because it's mostly just old guys making things up 20:59:53 as opposed to real science, which is old guys making stuff up but having to convince other old guys of it for money 20:59:56 why is he called "Aristotle" in english when his name was Ἀριστοτέλης? 20:59:58 aristotle aristotle was a bugger for the bottle 21:00:09 Harris Turtle 21:00:11 -!- augur has joined. 21:00:17 nortti: probably warping through persian intermediates 21:00:26 or just europeans being bad at languages as per usual 21:00:35 very possible 21:00:56 interesting that finnish uses pretty-direct transliteration "Aristoteles" 21:00:57 Slereah_: i think part of it is like i said, it hasn't happened so much in physics. 21:00:58 oerjan++ 21:00:58 nortti : why is Ἄνουβις in greek when his egyptian name is inpw 21:01:18 it used to be more of a thing that you would translate names for a different language 21:01:18 at least not that i know of. i ain't a physicist. hell yea 21:01:21 I mean there's plenty of wrong theories in physics, certainly 21:01:30 but for the most part, they weren't like 21:01:30 and some of the names we use today are based on n steps of translation, I guess 21:01:35 Experimentally very wrong 21:01:37 like if you were a scientist you had to have a latin name 21:01:46 my favorite warped name is avicenna 21:02:10 Hey what about 21:02:14 Lamarckian evolution 21:02:14 Slereah_: i was thinking of this because i was raeding a book from the 70s (so not that old) that put forward the folding muscle thing, which has nothing at all to do with the modern theory 21:02:18 Or Lysenkoism 21:02:27 lysenkoism could work 21:02:42 Or really a lot of scientific theories from the soviet union 21:02:45 lamarckianism is kind of weird because of things like it being a huge influence on darwin 21:02:49 there was a Party Line on science 21:02:55 Hence there was a lot of weird things 21:03:07 the only major ones i know are lysenko and pavlov, and pavlov wasn't /that/ wrong 21:03:19 What about 21:03:20 FREUD 21:03:22 So very wrong 21:03:35 Or phlogiston 21:03:43 they still teach psychoanalysis in intro psych classes. 21:03:48 I know! 21:03:49 what about individual (as opposed to gene) selection :3 21:03:55 i don't know why, but 21:04:15 kmc: can opens up beneath us, we fall into an earth sized sphere made entirely of worms 21:04:27 Oh 21:04:31 And HOLLOW EARTH 21:04:38 That was big for a while 21:04:40 was hollow earth ever a mainstream thing 21:04:48 Dunno about mainstream 21:04:54 Bike: oh, what about the theory that the sun was mostly iron 21:04:59 But it enjoyed some popularity in the early 20th century 21:05:03 it's like, i know some guys that said mountains were formed by underground gas pockets, but nobody much believed them 21:05:13 oerjan: oh i half remember that one 21:05:58 They had that one flat-vs-round on-the-river test about the curvature of Earth that got them the result that the surface is in fact concave. 21:06:10 that sounds awesome. 21:06:20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bedford_Level_experiment 21:06:29 aether is the sort of thing i wouldn't count, since it's how other waves work, and i'm gonna be honest i have no idea how EM works 21:06:39 Flat earth theory hasn't been that popular in the last few thousand years 21:07:13 "Several protracted court cases ensued, with the result that Hampden was imprisoned for libel and threatening to kill Wallace." ah, the scientific method 21:07:18 Not popular, but it's had its adherents. 21:07:23 Although 21:07:28 hm, maybe steady state universe. 21:07:31 It did have its proponents 21:07:35 Back in the days 21:07:36 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Baylonianmaps.JPG 21:07:42 Fucking world map~ 21:07:49 old world maps rule 21:07:56 It is the oldest world map 21:08:13 «Wallace, who had been unaware of Rowbotham's earlier experiments, was criticized by his peers for "his 'injudicious' involvement in a bet to 'decide' the most fundamental and established of scientific facts"» is this like, the 1800s version of evolution debates 21:08:44 The concavity thing is in the "Other experiments" section. 21:08:44 Although it's really just a little area around babylon 21:08:49 Lazy cartographers 21:08:54 oh hey lewontin wrote a bit about selection units, sweet 21:10:30 http://www.tryidris.org/console 21:10:43 (I know, I know, probably not esoteric enough) 21:11:44 Hey myname 21:11:46 What about 21:11:57 Continuous brainfuck 21:12:11 Might be hard! 21:12:40 what? 21:12:55 Brainfuck over the real line~ 21:13:11 Although I guess on a processor, it will probably be basic brainfuck 21:13:17 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 21:13:17 Depending how you define it 21:14:28 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:14:35 don't get it 21:15:09 Just some vague idea I had 21:15:18 Brainfuck that uses a function over R instead of a tape 21:15:39 i see 21:15:41 And I guess instead of +- whatever, you use some basis for real functions 21:15:55 like maybe some Fourier modes 21:17:10 http://abstrusegoose.com/564 21:17:12 heh 21:18:58 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 21:19:35 kmc: Fun fact: there are 20 trains currently on their way from somewhere to somewhere else in Finland. (VR has an "open data" feed of their current positions.) 21:19:57 (That's not very many; but it is 00:20am, maybe there's more during the day.) 21:20:30 How many of the conductors are drunk though 21:21:06 istr when we discussed continuous brainfuck, the +->< commands were like infinitesimals, and then you put them in a loop to get larger effects. 21:22:01 Well if they're infinitesimals you can't add them up to larger effects 21:22:02 hm, that is rather few 21:22:03 i'm not sure a proper semantics was made. probably would involve differential equations. 21:22:06 I assume that doesn't include the Helsinki Metro 21:22:09 That's the whole point of infinitesimals! 21:22:20 subway trains aren't trains, duh 21:22:21 Slereah_: yes you can, if you add infinitely many of them! 21:22:27 They break the Archimedian properties 21:22:32 well it isn't run by VR 21:22:38 Well yeah but then how will you define them 21:22:51 In the end you'll just replicate the natural numbers 21:22:53 kmc: Probably not, though it wouldn't be running at this time anyway. 21:22:55 With a fancier syntax 21:22:59 distinguishing subways from mainline / commuter trains is pretty easy in America, but quite difficult in some places (like Japan) 21:23:07 kmc: It stops at 23:20 except on Fridays. 21:23:31 (And Saturdays.) 21:23:40 Slereah_: that was the intuitive meaning. as i said, a proper semantics would probably involve differential equations. 21:23:55 Well 21:24:18 Technically, you can't make all real functions from differential equations with integer factors 21:24:23 also, nonstandard reals probably 21:24:29 Also I think some diff eqs are uncomputable 21:24:33 fizzie: boooooo 21:24:38 when does it stop on friday / saturday? 21:24:49 Slereah_: i fail to see how this matters to an esolang hth 21:25:02 kmc: Last trains start at 01:15am one way and 01:05am the other. 21:25:04 Well it does for an implementable one 21:25:19 Although 21:25:24 what could be nice is 21:25:29 Doing it entirely hardware 21:25:35 Might work better! 21:25:41 Just doin' it with currents 21:25:59 (This Friday/Saturday extension is a relatively new thing, they started it in November last year.) 21:27:04 Is there any neural network based esolang? 21:27:06 and when does the first train in the morning run? 21:27:09 Or other such similar concepts 21:27:22 stopping at 23:20 is worse than a lot of subways in america :/ 21:29:24 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Genetic_algorithm and http://esolangs.org/wiki/Wittgen are the only hits for Neural. 21:29:49 fizzie: are there night buses in helsinki? 21:31:41 the last trains on BART depart around midnight or 00:30 on a weekday, depending on the station 21:31:51 the last train from the airport is before midnight, which is annoying 21:32:11 and they start up around 04:00 21:32:36 Google Transit will sometimes give you transit instructions that involve waiting on a street corner in Los Angeles for three hours in the middle of the night 21:32:59 I wonder how long it would take to make a neural network learn the Fibonacci sequence 21:33:09 Just input an ordinal and get the sequence member 21:33:58 based on the evidence of my brain, i estimate that it would take approximately forever, unless the neural network was also a nerd 21:34:14 What if i put glasses on it 21:35:11 probably needs a pocket protector too 21:37:13 kmc: There are special night-only bus lines, about 5 of theme these days. They go in a zigzaggy way in approximately equally spaced directions starting from the city centre. 21:38:12 Not very many scheduled departures, it's something like (for e.g. the 400N line) 2:35, 3:15, 4:00 and 4:15. 21:38:21 only fice? hah, small town people 21:38:41 They all seem to be also Friday-and-Saturday-only. 21:38:50 even more so 21:39:27 in some places, Budapest has better night buses than day ones 21:40:00 maybe I should start going to work at \night 21:40:14 The local non-subway trains do have some amount of night service. 21:41:45 the trains don't go during night here 21:41:50 Like, there's stop-on-all-stations departures from Helsinki towards Riihimäki/Lahti at 1:01, 1:31, 2:01, 2:31, 3:01, 4:01, 5:01 on the Fri/Sat and Sat/Sun nights; that pretty much covers the gap between the regular evening and morning trains. 21:42:14 that's nice 21:42:24 I'd like that here 21:42:44 Of course it's less nice if you happen to have some reason to be out late on anything else than a Friday or a Saturday. 21:43:39 E.g. it's pretty hard to go home to sleep on the first night of a Thursday-to-Sunday (pseudo-)demoscene event. 21:43:46 that sounds invader zimish <-- zzo38 is invader zim? 21:43:59 (Probably my only regular reason for interfacing with late-night public transportation.) 21:45:33 I think the trains and non-urban buses stop during night so much that there's an instant each night when all passenger trains and all non-urban buses in the country are stopped. 21:45:53 but it's hard to be sure about that for the buses, with these stupid timetables 21:48:23 http://www.theallium.com/science-life/scientists-reportedly-close-to-finding-a-use-for-linkedin/ <-- subtle hostname, there 21:48:37 hehe 21:48:58 Though now that we live where we live, the last years I've just used the bicycle paths that run next to the train tracks. Summer nights/early mornings here are quite good for that; it's reasonably light, and usually refreshingly chilly. 21:49:20 Plus the place is for some reason full of rabbits around 03am or so. 21:49:42 I think I counted around twenty on a single trip. 21:49:58 (There's a bit of a pest problem with these "city bunnies".) 21:50:19 I see 21:50:24 http://yle.fi/uutiset/hunt_for_city_bunnies_begins/6284368 21:50:39 cuuuuuuute~ 21:51:07 Those things go ridiculously fast for their size. 21:51:16 i knew some good spots to find bunnies in Cambridge MA, but none in SF :/ 21:52:29 "Helsinki to feed lions and vultures with city bunnies" sounds very exciting. 21:53:10 The circle of life. Except the bunnies are descendants of former pets, and the lions and vultures are in a zoo. 21:53:32 (And humans do the catching and feeding.) 21:53:51 oerjan: easy to find out. does he have any friends? 21:53:54 "The animal keepers at the zoo have also tried offering rabbits to the Steller's Sea Eagles, Haliaeetus pelagicus, but with little success. Apparently the heaviest eagle in the world, a beast with a wingspan of more than two metres, is actually afraid of the rather small cuddly cuties, which bear a passing resemblance to fur mittens." 21:54:15 -!- kallisti has joined. 21:54:52 -!- conehead has joined. 21:56:27 myname: you know, i have no evidence on that. does his D&D DM count? 21:59:59 :D 22:06:32 there are rabbits all over the place at warwick 22:06:43 i saw a ginger one last year 22:10:44 -!- augur has joined. 22:11:18 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:18:21 i think i forgot how to sleep 22:18:41 myname, me too 22:18:47 I'm going to sleep now 22:18:58 Then in the morning, TRAVEL TO THE HOMELAND OF PHANTOM HOOVER 22:19:09 like, i am yawning every other minute but stay awake 22:19:21 *dun dun dun* 22:19:45 (I need to visit the Australian Commission to renew my passport) 22:20:08 Anyway, goodnight 22:20:17 Taneb, why is the australian comission in edinburgh 22:20:41 oh wait i guess edinburgh's just closer than london 22:30:10 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:30:12 -!- glogbot has joined. 22:30:14 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:30:15 -!- esowiki has joined. 22:35:23 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:43:08 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:52:34 -!- shikhout has joined. 22:55:22 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 22:55:22 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin. 22:56:09 -!- Sgeo has joined. 23:03:56 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 23:04:55 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 23:05:09 -!- boily has joined. 23:06:03 -!- JesseH has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:06:44 -!- JesseH has joined. 23:07:01 -!- MoALTz has joined. 23:07:53 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:18:51 -!- tromp has joined. 23:23:21 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 23:50:33 good evening. a random thought was floating around in my cranium. 23:50:53 anyone know if jsvine published the Infamous Interview? 23:51:49 never heard anything. 23:52:18 -!- madbr has joined. 23:52:41 anyone has done verilog? 23:52:47 I did. 23:52:49 someone has 23:52:57 :o 23:53:00 did ais523 use that or the other one 23:53:08 vhdl? 23:53:16 yeah 23:53:23 I should have ought to have did vhdl, but kinda dodged it. 23:53:45 never done any but vhdl looks rather worse 23:54:04 i'm sure both of these questions could have been easily answered if Gregor hadn't broken `pastelogs hth 23:55:13 madbr: vhdl is refurbished ada. 23:56:10 never tried ada either but it sounds grody 23:57:48 -!- metasepia has joined. 23:57:49 ~duck grody 23:57:49 --- No relevant information 23:57:54 `? grody 23:57:55 grody? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ 23:59:55 looks just slightly more wordy in a way that makes it both harder to read and longer to type