< 1398470483 464670 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iegvoiykvozsjiyt QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1398470562 372123 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can implement van Laarhoven lenses in a dynamically typed language without difficultly faking typeclasses, but not sure about other van Laarhoven optics < 1398470595 912264 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :lasers < 1398470600 366497 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of f a, could just give a function that's effectively flip fmap < 1398470608 285942 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1398470629 705346 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much else you can do with an unknown Functor < 1398470639 477458 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomb of the unknown functor < 1398470822 686373 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398471057 432103 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my friends is playing a 1080p movie via sshfs to a server in France < 1398471122 957417 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have pretty much moved from streaming with sshfs to transfering with git-annex. < 1398471190 741375 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traversals need traversable, which needs foldable and functor... I don't think I can represent opaque traversables as literally one function < 1398471343 149113 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hold on, there are default definitions for the Functor and Foldable part... but would I ever need to pass in a functor or foldable that's not a traversable < 1398471484 903261 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um lens traversals are analogous to traversables, not based on them... < 1398471513 997539 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get them by switching Functor with Applicative in the lens version < 1398471524 433872 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1398471532 959418 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Applicative may be a bit problematic < 1398471583 103409 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or... ok, not thinking about this fully at the moment < 1398471673 448707 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although perhaps you _can_ do it with traversables, in some "dual" representation < 1398471725 51920 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders what a Lensable would look like
< 1398471763 665540 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that would be a typeclass corresponding to lenses and Functor in the same way Traversable corresponds to traversals and Applicative < 1398471787 615340 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Functor corresponds to getters and ...um, something? < 1398471807 440062 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (^.) < 1398471808 346478 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s -> Getting a s a -> a < 1398471829 275738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :um sorry, *setters < 1398471841 745470 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Getter needs (Functor f, Contravariant f) < 1398471872 133045 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1398471941 974196 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getter might correspond to Pointed as a class, maybe < 1398472137 722730 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely Copointed? < 1398472165 170202 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right because Const r is the "only" thing that is both. < 1398472166 343256 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-kyctysakvnxvbgzu QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398472208 612462 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-hsvuzeqrcetnqero JOIN :#esoteric < 1398472230 51000 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what is Copointed < 1398472340 480614 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foldable corresponds to folds and something < 1398472369 495198 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foldable is Functor + Monoid a => f a -> a < 1398472437 595878 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the part i'm interested in < 1398472509 245022 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm Contravariant and Applicative < 1398472520 659290 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks his brain is running out of steam again
< 1398472542 526302 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i didn't finish the logs < 1398472648 828082 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Copointed is f a -> a < 1398472682 391526 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : kmc: it involves categorical logic <-- have you reinvented cartesian closed categories < 1398472702 894235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: hm right < 1398472716 183189 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's Traversable : Traversal :: Copointed : Getter < 1398472743 400337 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every Copointed is trivially Foldable < 1398472747 519917 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah sounds reasonable < 1398472852 994400 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor+Contravariant means phantom < 1398472868 210381 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: aka Const < 1398472868 358259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could make class Phantom f where coerce :: f a -> f b (we used to have that) < 1398472891 62817 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Const r or something isomorphic to it, sure. < 1398472914 707868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok Setter uses a complicated brew of contexts that enforce the functor being Identity. < 1398472917 815652 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, we just use Functor+Contravariant to express that using non-lens classes. < 1398472921 793057 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1398473332 453660 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think taintedDot is named for what it does to people who come by it unwarily. < 1398473486 179719 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3 < 1398473677 173625 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh, here was a fun one I thought of today: can we get a minor-closed class of graphs, membership in which is undecideable? <-- no. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robertson%E2%80%93Seymour_theorem < 1398473782 489396 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :taintedDot is still a thing? < 1398473783 576828 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1398473809 696914 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sorry :'( < 1398473845 451925 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wondering why they're bothering with all that machinery for something that's supposed to be Identity < 1398473890 571100 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trouble is that newtype Id a = Id { runId :: a }, (Id x) is operationally the same as x < 1398473910 802471 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Id is operationally the same as, uh, id < 1398473929 923535 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (Id . f) is operationally the same as (\x -> Id (f x)) = (\x -> id (f x)) = (\x -> f x) < 1398473938 934631 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't the same as f (when f is _|_) < 1398474013 485677 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that explains the seqs i guess but not why they bother to list all the superclasses < 1398474059 858561 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even to _use_ them in the implementation < 1398474091 596656 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1398474099 380593 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a look at a thing called Conjoined < 1398474148 846007 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you talking about the default implementations? < 1398474174 38405 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :those can't use unsafeCoerce because maybe the user will give a type that isn't Id and then you can derive a real unsafeCoerce from the default instance < 1398474365 646877 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's actually just Applicative which is used < 1398474376 268855 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1398474517 619400 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a Functor is a function that takes one argument, an Applicative could be a function that takes several arguments. Except I lose pure < 1398474548 618296 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And currently guessing as to whether that several arguments thing would work, but it makes a kind of intuitive sense) < 1398474625 164277 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Harder to have one that you add to later though < 1398474740 129791 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur_: oh wait ski not lambda calculus < 1398474806 572240 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you can make that Traversal1 thing i found just earlier < 1398474839 386355 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFK, I'll look when I get back < 1398476077 556283 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1398476323 965971 :Slereah!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398476941 634247 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1398477215 401643 :nooodl!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Quit: Ik ga weg < 1398477607 514634 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "aha" < 1398477609 324752 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : can't find file: L.hs < 1398477616 245488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cough* < 1398477618 204235 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> "aha" < 1398477619 904156 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : "aha" < 1398477774 186488 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no TOPIC #esoteric :The channel with the > bot | PSA: fizzie is running the wiki now, contact him for any problems | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1398477952 679724 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-hsvuzeqrcetnqero QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2 < 1398478157 255880 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : "So. It’s World Penguin Day & DNA Day… AND World Malaria Day & Ed Balls Day." kmc you know what to do <-- ok kmc how is your penguin/mosquito chimæra going? < 1398478238 826542 :rodgort!~rodgort@li125-242.members.linode.com QUIT :Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs) < 1398478396 721595 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We got idris-ircslave to stop using > ? < 1398478429 698694 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing, isn't it < 1398478509 520050 :rodgort!~rodgort@192.241.198.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398478513 395891 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1398478534 21805 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone written a roguelike game in SQL before? < 1398478558 777571 :rodgort!~rodgort@192.241.198.49 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398478748 261543 :rodgort!~rodgort@192.241.198.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398478761 632013 :adu!~ajr@pool-108-28-107-114.washdc.fios.verizon.net QUIT :Quit: adu < 1398478844 531639 :rodgort!~rodgort@192.241.198.49 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398478993 573405 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's that thing explaining how to make a lens from scratch? < 1398479014 942789 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1398479026 322927 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ftp.newartisans.com/pub/Lenses.mp4 is simon's talk < 1398479035 325340 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was hoping for a page < 1398479040 277240 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :mth.io/talks/lens-from-the-ground-up/ is mark hibberd's talk < 1398479069 589902 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/lens/wiki/Derivation is my original page in the wiki starting from motivation to theory < 1398479088 208031 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks < 1398479155 507947 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that sounds terrible. go for it ;) < 1398479176 58568 :rodgort!~rodgort@192.241.198.49 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398479178 582663 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of < 1398479191 745319 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => (b -> f b) -> a -> f a < 1398479200 499847 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking that I could have something like < 1398479260 142176 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1398479274 901332 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t flip fmap < 1398479275 798014 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functor f => f a -> (a -> b) -> f b < 1398479355 255504 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, I realized in retrospect it was a dumb question < 1398479398 58509 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to ask the slightly more interesting question "is it possible that there's a minor-closed graphs for which we are unable (in the sense of independence) to find the forbidden minors? < 1398479402 62329 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1398479429 654608 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd expect that to be true < 1398479473 407866 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only way to construct that f a that the lens must output is to use fmap with the result of (b -> f b), right? < 1398479474 421470 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: Are you sure it is terrible? < 1398479494 948652 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: the problem with that form is it doesn't compose as well < 1398479507 183155 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but we can enumerate all of the possible sets of forbidden minors < 1398479553 548802 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, but we cannot check whether any particular of those sets gives the original set of graphs, i think < 1398479553 696616 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there likely to be significant limitations if I keep not going the van Laarhoven route in a dynamically typed language? < 1398479566 188842 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :My code is so verbose :/ < 1398479582 414471 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it would be fun to show it could be done < 1398479601 678611 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (zip [1, 2, 3]) $ [4, 5, 6] < 1398479603 110152 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show b0) < 1398479603 257778 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M245150698743640559410341.show_M2451506987436405594... < 1398479603 257900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous < 1398479603 257949 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1398479603 257988 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1398479611 223747 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1398479636 474493 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (zip [1,2,3]) $ [[4,5,6]] < 1398479637 934700 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [[(1,4),(2,5),(3,6)]] < 1398479646 944452 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: zip [1, 2, 3] 4 doesn't make much sense < 1398479647 91979 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (zip [1, 2, 3 :: Int]) $ [4,5,6] < 1398479648 463521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : No instance for (GHC.Show.Show b0) < 1398479648 611453 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from a use of ‘M814034439476907821810375.show_M8140344394769078218... < 1398479648 611521 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous < 1398479648 611559 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Note: there are several potential instances: < 1398479648 611593 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : instance [safe] GHC.Show.Show < 1398479658 44665 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: although this is really about _descriptions_ of sets of graphs, not sets of graphs themselves < 1398479662 652040 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :> map (zip [1,2,3]) [4::Int,5,6] < 1398479664 60030 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘[b]’ with actual type ‘GHC.Types.Int’ < 1398479684 728194 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: true < 1398479701 164536 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :... were you able to determine beforehand without GHCi or similar that that would be a clearer error message somehow? < 1398479710 604190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: oh wait am i thinking about this wrongly < 1398479745 827301 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t zip < 1398479746 810002 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a] -> [b] -> [(a, b)] < 1398479747 974674 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think so. We can describe any minor-closed set of graphs by its forbidden minors < 1398479751 242501 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1398479752 288374 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1398479763 755182 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that wasn't a response) < 1398479781 186892 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the question is "is there some way to describe a minor-closed set of graphs in such a way that we are unable to associate them with a description of that set by its forbidden minors." < 1398480012 670721 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like you just need to encode a gödel sentence or something < 1398480046 138139 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1398480200 112271 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, you need to encode something like that. but I'm not quite sure how you would do so in a useful way that still leaves you minor-closed < 1398480213 956739 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I guess you could, nevermind < 1398480236 65313 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... better. membership in the class needs to be decideable < 1398480273 222412 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would seem more interesting < 1398480363 69729 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1398480480 789608 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1398481696 892028 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is still trying to figure out the functor thing
< 1398481714 132034 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :All I can think is maybe it's an infinitely big type trying to write it out like that < 1398481753 795135 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twanvl.nl/blog/haskell/overloading-functional-references ? < 1398481775 732651 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were asking about lenses, these are twan's original posts < 1398481846 508462 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it possible to write a function that gives infinitely many arguments in Haskell? < 1398481848 912068 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :*takes < 1398481852 723302 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :id < 1398481915 381241 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, even if the type involved is opaque to my lenses, it can't be opaque to the driver < 1398482019 137664 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it doesn't need to be just a function, it itself shouldn't be getting composed, right? < 1398482030 296817 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't const id or however you spell it take infinitely many arguments < 1398482032 100478 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only the lenses that treat it as opaque get composed < 1398482050 65598 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const id 3 4 < 1398482051 573850 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4 < 1398482057 21706 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const id 3 4 5 < 1398482058 467735 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> t)) < 1398482058 657764 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the ambiguity check for ‘e_1345’ < 1398482058 657834 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a -> t), GHC.Num.Num a) < 1398482058 657873 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : bound by the inferred type for ‘e_1345’: < 1398482058 657908 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : (GHC.Num.Num (a -> t), GHC.Num.Num a) => t < 1398482063 836266 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dangit numbers < 1398482066 963551 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh? < 1398482069 731520 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> const id '3' '4' '5' < 1398482071 261103 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘GHC.Types.Char -> t’ < 1398482071 408917 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘GHC.Types.Char’ < 1398482073 423455 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t const id < 1398482074 334900 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b -> a -> a < 1398482087 224686 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wait, i'm thinking wrong, yeah. < 1398482114 803328 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want a function that ignores its argument and returns itself. < 1398482129 488814 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I've finally learned the difference between expected and actual < 1398482131 740728 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f x = f < 1398482132 674436 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :: not an expression: ‘let f x = f’ < 1398482138 725765 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f x = f in f < 1398482139 703024 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: t3 ~ t2 -> t3 < 1398482139 850913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Relevant bindings include < 1398482139 850979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : x :: t2 (bound at :1:7) < 1398482146 834256 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring! < 1398482173 11408 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> fix id < 1398482177 338536 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conceptually, an infinite type can be well-typed even if Haskell doesn't understand it, right? < 1398482177 486051 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : mueval-core: Time limit exceeded < 1398482188 762539 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :> undefined 3 4 5 6 7 < 1398482190 247087 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : *Exception: Prelude.undefined < 1398482193 178008 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix kills an argument < 1398482195 968452 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :owned!!! < 1398482472 254245 :huh!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398482487 602588 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let import Data.NumInstances < 1398482488 628036 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1398482493 401998 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :> 1 2 3 4 5 < 1398482494 701362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1398482623 106908 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that if a value has the type a = b -> a then you can never get any information out of it < 1398482684 195234 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Mu < 1398482684 385835 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Mu f = In { out :: f (Mu f) } < 1398482717 588348 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be called Fix :'( < 1398482750 618868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f x = out f in f < 1398482751 370546 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘Mu f1’ < 1398482751 558833 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘t1 -> f1 (Mu f1)’ < 1398482751 558927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Relevant bindings include < 1398482756 888264 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let f x = In f in f < 1398482757 704113 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :t -> Mu ((->) t) < 1398482775 34775 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :To write a roguelike game in SQL does not sound too terrible to me; you will not have to deal with encoding data in a save file, since SQL will do that automatically (you don't even need to tell it to save; that is automatic too), < 1398482792 854011 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let newtype Fix f = Fix { runFix :: f (Fix f) } < 1398482793 823765 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1398482885 953255 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t coerce < 1398482886 850902 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Contravariant f, Functor f) => f a -> f b < 1398482903 838244 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT THE ONE I WAS LOOKING FOR < 1398482933 248261 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerjan < 1398482980 835695 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :cœrce < 1398483046 34110 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :"t GHC.Prim.coerce < 1398483049 81906 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t GHC.Prim.coerce < 1398483049 892859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Types.Coercible a b => a -> b < 1398483057 666863 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1398483068 507935 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(exported via GHC.Exts) < 1398483179 237959 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let f x = GHC.Prim.coerce (In f) < 1398483179 878954 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:147:7: Not in scope: ‘GHC.Prim.coerce’ < 1398483180 106597 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1398483180 106692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:147:27: < 1398483180 106740 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ambiguous occurrence ‘f’ < 1398483180 106776 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : It could refer to either ‘L.f’, defined at .L.hs:147:1 < 1398483188 948383 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1398483203 632362 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let a = GHC.Exts.coerce 42 < 1398483204 374961 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : .L.hs:144:5: Not in scope: ‘GHC.Exts.coerce’ < 1398483222 154850 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :GHC.Exts is not very safe :P < 1398483234 459500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coerce is meant to be safe :( < 1398483325 190117 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess means that's the wrong module to export that from... < 1398483325 913832 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I can if the language allows functions to be more than merely functions < 1398483344 644958 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: oh right you're not working in haskell < 1398483383 252071 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can't make a truly infinite function type in Haskell. You can, of course, fake it. < 1398483399 500973 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run let a = (); a # b = 0 in let a# b = 1 in a# () < 1398483400 889174 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1398483418 906770 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. no. < 1398483424 899477 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run let a = (); a# b = 0 in let a # b = 1 in a# () < 1398483426 361437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 < 1398483449 167156 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a proper test for MagicHash. < 1398483478 898043 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run 0# < 1398483480 163864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Kind incompatibility when matching types: < 1398483480 311409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : a0 :: * < 1398483480 311482 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHC.Prim.Int# :: # < 1398483496 193610 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :@run I# 0# < 1398483497 296336 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: data constructor ‘I#’ < 1398483497 442825 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant ‘In’ (imported from Lambdabot.Plugin.Haskell.Eval.Trusted) < 1398483567 150462 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I guess that's harmless since you can't operate on such unboxed values anyway. < 1398483585 26269 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with the modules that lambdabot imports) < 1398483587 499561 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So prety < 1398483591 722473 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(let f () f) < 1398483720 505806 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@let class CountArgs a where {countArgs :: Int -> a}; instance CountArgs Int where {countArgs = id}; instance CountArgs a => CountArgs (b -> a) where {countArgs n _ = countArgs $! n + 1} < 1398483721 664052 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Defined. < 1398483751 551748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> countArgs 0 "hi" False [Nothing] :: Int < 1398483752 874913 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1398483787 676155 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine working on the first try < 1398484564 351854 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398484596 419439 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Half wondering if it would just make more sense to abuse impurity to turn a modifier into something able to get < 1398484597 522698 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1398484611 638306 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That... seems almost related to what the functor allows for anyway < 1398484786 217375 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :`coins < 1398484787 646139 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :solvescoin pingcoin mazancoin reatcoin barcoin godsmacoin cntalcoin mutlastacoin odtizediuspietcoin giumcoin lo'scoin pcordfuckercoin vowcoin dilaxatcoin goto+coin grancoin eucacoin qalcoin con-textendecoin graphicoin < 1398484789 950798 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In some book I have, it describes a virtual machine called "Ada/CS Object Machine". It is a similar to IBM mainframe instruction sets. < 1398484793 510270 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f a) where f is an unknown Functor is iso to (forall b. (a -> b) -> f b), if that's what you've been asking. < 1398484809 734892 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1398484811 227679 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1398484852 738482 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is iso to an infinitely large type, I guess < 1398484860 407777 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Isn't that the right Yoneda lemma though? < 1398484861 182373 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1398484862 468113 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4575eb51.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1398484862 837752 :Sorella!~queen@201.80.215.125 QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1398484875 419157 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's iso to the intersection of ((a -> B) -> f B) for all concrete B, sure. < 1398484889 879203 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't seem like a terribly useful thing here. < 1398484935 989353 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is also a left Yoneda lemma (is that useful here at all?) < 1398485586 236241 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ww2.chemistry.gatech.edu/~bostwick/stms/raw.txt Anyone recognize where the language on the bottom could be from, phylogenically? It's probably a DSL < 1398485883 952314 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a kind of BASIC to me < 1398485962 792252 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, something like BASIC < 1398486020 190094 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But unusual; it is using ! for comments < 1398486037 742427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i noticed that < 1398486060 917675 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "PRINT USING" is very basic < 1398486098 807644 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, I can write programs in BASIC. < 1398486136 499128 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write a program in BASIC. Specifically, the empty program. < 1398486192 941473 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that will work and is valid < 1398486230 736820 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic has that #-y print string thing? < 1398486264 265235 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you put #1 or whatever after PRINT it mean, to send it to the file, instead of to the screen. < 1398486283 304813 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a PRINT USING, the # is a placeholder for a digit. < 1398486302 797265 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Type suffix in some version of BASIC can be # for double precision floating points. < 1398486304 151723 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, i see. < 1398486329 897892 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can use any text editor to write a macro. In the following examples, it is assumed that Microsoft(R) Windows Notepad is used." < 1398486490 727104 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1398486743 215599 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Haskell is about to teach me MVC < 1398486861 738957 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1398487664 163897 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the specification of the qsort function in C about the exact pointing of the arguments to the comparison function? < 1398487687 215889 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1398487724 808290 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it point to existing objects, create a copy, point to their original location, etc, such as, what will their pointer difference be? < 1398487887 813963 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it doesn't say. you can't rely on the pointer values at all, just on the contents. < 1398487971 2520 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Though there's no sane way that qsort can do *any* dynamic allocation at all. < 1398487982 297969 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(qsort cannot fail) < 1398488106 99757 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose that doesn't mean that, say, the arguments to the comparator can't point into buffers on the stack. < 1398488118 373801 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just that there's only so crazy you can go. < 1398488127 231054 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what of trying to allocate, the allocation failing, and it falling back to something worse than if it was able to allocate? < 1398488141 981091 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Actually, 7.20.5 (C99) says that the pointers being passed are supposed to lie inside the array being sorted. < 1398488158 227062 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Ah, huh. < 1398488167 739873 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not everything that uses malloc has to have a non-0 chance of failing, I think < 1398488170 661501 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I guess that's *valid*, if utterly moronic. < 1398488190 999265 :huh!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: pikhq ??? < 1398488237 463555 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesom, I can tab-complete huh now. Although I ended up trying to tab-complete ttab-coomplet.e < 1398488256 62549 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Particularly with qsort. In-place sorting isn't exactly hard. < 1398488458 938546 :huh!~area@wikipedia/PiRSquared17 QUIT :Quit: Segmentation fault < 1398488551 126693 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hmm. but quicksort is the only viable option that remains. < 1398488631 326143 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Smoothsort, heapsort, in-place merge sort. < 1398488667 118295 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure qsort cannot fail, even if the comparison function is not implemented correctly? (For example, if it returns a random number regardless of its inputs) < 1398488681 515614 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's UB. :) < 1398488705 692625 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :heapsort is terrible for caches. < 1398488758 832781 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :And quicksort has pathological behavior on certain inputs. < 1398488787 83983 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc defaults to a merge sort with n/2 elements worth of temporary space, and falls back to quicksort if allocation fails < 1398488802 169606 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's... not what glibc does. < 1398488819 351206 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it needs O(log n) stack space according to Wikipedia < 1398488834 918751 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. Or about two ints. < 1398488854 602498 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Remember, log_2 2^64 is is 64. < 1398488872 903005 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually... huh. How does that work, exactly, If it's not known until runtime how much stack space.... oh, hmm.... < 1398488884 390964 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :... The maximum is well-known. < 1398488910 567991 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maximum on modern computers < 1398488911 40195 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you mean, "that's not what glibc does"? < 1398488933 551683 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: I mean that that's not the algorithm used in stdlib/qsort.c. < 1398488955 349390 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed. and that's not qsort. look at msort.c in the same directory. < 1398488978 743128 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION takes a moment to flip off glibc
< 1398488998 719326 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc, the new openssl? < 1398489025 995868 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is... utterly, positively moronic, BTW. < 1398489052 226057 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, on out-of-memory it goes pathological. < 1398489077 574201 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather than, y'know, just using smoothsort. < 1398489086 951106 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no Identity Applicative, is there? < 1398489093 726829 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would pure... oh. I'm dumb. < 1398489104 715084 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Pretty much. glibc is positively insane. < 1398489114 282579 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed to forget that pure takes an argument. < 1398489121 152846 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't it be the old ssl < 1398489136 22250 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know if return to libc counts as a heartbleed < 1398489482 1868 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc broke his heart < 1398489483 232260 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :employees must wash hands before returning to libc < 1398490382 335269 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: turns out the answer is you can't < 1398490416 793714 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't which way? < 1398490453 937730 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait, hmm... not sure the reasoning holds < 1398490492 874191 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you had only finitely many candidate sets of forbidden minors, you could just enumerate the class of graphs and check each of the sets < 1398490564 150064 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure < 1398490583 253362 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you only needed to test the members of the candidate sets < 1398490633 240354 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is when you cannot prove there is a much larger forbidden graph than the ones you have tested < 1398490638 17117 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1398490680 403197 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there isn't < 1398490720 371260 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah here we are < 1398490723 400415 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo,Bike : "Is it possible to write a function that gives infinitely many arguments in Haskell?","i just want a function that ignores its argument and returns itself.","Conceptually, an infinite type can be well-typed even if Haskell doesn't understand it, right?" -- can be done with `ocaml -rectypes', e.g.. this is "equi-recursive" types, as opposed to "iso-recursive" ones < 1398490761 997583 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (lambda (o) ((f (car o)) (lambda (mc) (cons mc (cdr o)))))) < 1398490768 299095 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^not tested < 1398490773 317825 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose S were a minimal set of sets of forbidden minors that you couldn't prove were/weren't the set for your class. Then at least one set contains a minor of a graph in another class. You can test those two graphs and eliminate one set from consideration, which contradicts the selection of S. < 1398490784 165938 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used ocaml rectypes for my unlambda implementation < 1398490784 328412 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it relies again on the GMt < 1398490787 825103 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can obviously do it in scheme < 1398490846 978316 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if that's a bit verbose
< 1398490855 941794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can also do it in unlambda. although i never tested out my theoretical "stop at the first argument that is d" idea < 1398490861 790252 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to just using a modifier on the targetted car < 1398490865 704352 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07User:Quincunx14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39405&oldid=39086 5* 03Quincunx 5* (+144) 10/* Circuit Diagram 10 */ < 1398490982 499747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: um your line is too ambiguous for me to interpret < 1398491008 627426 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... twisty, almost. You apply the f too get a functor, which is then wrapped in a modifer that produces a functor, which is then applied to get a functor, etc. etc. < 1398491015 1643 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/too/to/ < 1398491036 45177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i have no idea if "set of sets" is a typo < 1398491055 653391 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somehow this is making the idea behind van Laarhoven lenses a bit more intuitive to me < 1398491059 348050 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that weird? < 1398491082 63216 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :For getting, (f (car o)) is a function that just ignores its argument < 1398491092 155955 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ok, let's say I have a minor-closed class \mathcal G. Let S be the set of sets F such that the statement "F is the set of forbidden minors of \mathcal G" is independent of ZFC. Then by the GMT, there exist, G, H in members of F, one which is a forbidden minor of the other < 1398491103 3893 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@81-224-29-207-no185.bredband.skanova.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1398491103 256174 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@81-224-29-207-no185.bredband.skanova.com QUIT :Changing host < 1398491103 404289 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal JOIN :#esoteric < 1398491104 386185 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :-forbidden < 1398491165 74305 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can just test G and H for membership in \mathcal G. If either is in \mathcal G, then that isn't a forbidden minor, eliminating one set from consideration. If neither is, then assuming G is a minor of H, then H is not a forbidden minor. either way, our choice of S was wrong, because we proved that some F was not the set of forbidden minors. < 1398491202 340631 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :should "in members of F" be "in members of S" < 1398491213 981988 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1398491217 596556 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, yes < 1398491241 962548 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski: in Haskell you can play the usual newtype trick. newtype W a = W { apply :: a -> W a }; w = W (\x -> w) < 1398491249 975906 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should I be sad that this is almost certainly not going to be R5RS Scheme? < 1398491265 799659 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tl;dr is that the Graph Minors Theorem is trolling us even more < 1398491277 789166 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it tells us that not only is the set of minors finite, there exists a proof of this fact. < 1398491292 703158 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1398491296 751475 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :there exists a proof of *which* set it is < 1398491319 146266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not convinced < 1398491323 876605 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what the hell are you trying to do even < 1398491324 849854 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am also tired < 1398491342 804898 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port something close to van Laarhoven lenses and miscelleny to Racket < 1398491353 978 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well nevermind me then < 1398491378 417037 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Too tired, in fact < 1398491409 873633 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e : indeed .. but that's kinda obvious < 1398491410 285478 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :It almost makes sense what f being an applicative maker instead of just a functor maker would do < 1398491420 707083 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and not quite what the OP asked for) < 1398491442 379392 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps you can do some classy trick as well < 1398491456 71296 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what pure looks like < 1398491464 48860 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, besides Functor and Applicative, what else do I want? < 1398491469 576906 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are prisms actually? < 1398491500 903560 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you save the macro it becomes a file on the computer hard disk. < 1398491528 781613 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: so few people have HDs though, aren't they more likely to be saving to floppy? < 1398491536 765477 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1398491557 414532 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had a book on DOS when I was a kid) < 1398491567 305822 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a laptop that ran DOS < 1398491590 823380 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the battery died < 1398491639 839688 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: So smoothsort looks complicated (not just the theory, but also the implementation) and bad in the benchmark that I found. I'll look at it some more, but only as an intellectual exercise. < 1398492086 26628 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe this is what both looks like < 1398492148 768669 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (lambda (o) ((f (car o) (cdr o)) cons))) < 1398492162 112513 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike : save macro where ? < 1398492173 712749 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :onto the computer hard disk < 1398492186 116029 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, in which system ? < 1398492362 75132 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh some chromotagraphy system < 1398492603 509458 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of macro ? < 1398492611 257949 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ui macro ? < 1398492676 618204 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like a shell script. < 1398492727 598254 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/name-fungus article about fungus sex. you probably know most of it but it's still neat < 1398492728 713383 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an OS ? < 1398492739 488692 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this chromatography machine. < 1398492974 675754 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an OS made for that chromatography machine ? < 1398493064 597286 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.chem.agilent.com/Library/usermanuals/Public/MACROS.PDF go crazy < 1398493778 315596 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.196.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398493778 655986 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.196.17 QUIT :Changing host < 1398493778 803535 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1398494179 89732 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungus < 1398494184 157717 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungots fall on fungot falls < 1398494184 305368 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: that is just a value of type is created containing the syntax for mark if he was really gonna get worse and worse each week, i fnord kara to hold me until i fell over to 5 videos and then i jizzed. in other places... problem, about the copyrights: i have put this in the near future, that are just the ordinary ( for call/ cc))) hangs < 1398494206 371304 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: tmi < 1398494206 557582 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc:, so i'd make stuff up to. why, this is for you guys are a lot < 1398494247 929883 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1398494248 77337 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher fungot* homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube < 1398494256 290388 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: stop making sense < 1398494256 437886 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: use the ' ' ' delete a value of type " airbus is a big fan of avril....but this song " there < 1398494310 761645 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style qwantz < 1398494310 909041 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: qwantz (Dinosaur Comics transcriptions 2003-2011) < 1398494312 653368 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: oi < 1398494313 182756 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :kmc: it's a very tricky to sound natural, then you can't sleep at all, then you go demented and then you die, we're giving dinosaur comics to the marmaduke guy. sincerely, the man, you must really have < 1398494516 3739 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made an... odd mistake < 1398494648 638209 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you dead < 1398495178 994738 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can use pure functions. < 1398495186 257310 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for running lenses < 1398495196 170860 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f (o:os) -> f o (\mc -> mc : os)) const [1,2,3,4,5] < 1398495197 535142 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1398495202 111839 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f (o:os) -> f o (\mc -> mc : os)) (\o recon -> recon (o + 1)) [1,2,3,4,5] < 1398495203 554809 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,2,3,4,5] < 1398495461 231154 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do wish that modifier didn't have to be baked into the runner < 1398495471 28823 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (\f (o:os) -> f o (\mc -> mc : os)) < 1398495471 809448 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a -> (a -> [a]) -> t) -> [a] -> t < 1398495508 940761 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh jeez it probably doesn't, I just need to give the modifier after the target < 1398495622 446070 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1398495645 936562 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (\f (o:os) -> f o (\mc -> mc : os)) (\o recon mod -> recon (mod o)) [1,2,3,4,5] (+1) < 1398495647 378772 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2,2,3,4,5] < 1398495669 682739 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\o recon mod -> recon (mod o) < 1398495669 833171 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(line 1, column 31): < 1398495669 833276 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :unexpected end of input < 1398495669 980469 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :expecting variable, "(", operator or ")" < 1398495675 677937 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl (\o recon mod -> recon (mod o)) < 1398495675 825109 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :flip (.) . flip id < 1398495685 642502 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs far, far away
< 1398495699 873347 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1398496402 160220 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pf (.).(.) < 1398496402 307362 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you meant: pl bf < 1398496408 379914 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, certainly not. < 1398496419 791892 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl bf < 1398496419 938946 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf < 1398496420 987011 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let lensHead = (\f (o:os) -> f o (\mc -> mc : os)) in (lensHead.lensHead) const [1,2,3,4,5] < 1398496422 100788 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Occurs check: cannot construct the infinite type: < 1398496422 247856 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : a0 ~ ([a0] -> [[a0]]) -> t < 1398496422 247930 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Expected type: a0 -> (a0 -> [a0]) -> ([a0] -> [[a0]]) -> t < 1398496422 247971 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actual type: a0 -> (a0 -> [a0]) -> a0 < 1398496430 360004 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1398496436 181744 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I thought I was onto something < 1398496458 603976 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :....like being an idiot... of course that wouldn't typecheck < 1398496518 910003 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only natural. < 1398496528 289259 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let lensFst = (\f (a,b) -> f a (,b)) in (lensFst.lensFst) const ((1,2),3) < 1398496529 735542 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1398496549 652655 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :infinite type error is the error I encounter most often too ;) < 1398496566 368198 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't expecting any of these to typecheck at all < 1398496574 639993 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting they'd only work in Racket or something < 1398496628 594130 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still the whole lack of varargs thing < 1398496641 548743 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 49% chance it's either "infinite type", 49% chance it's "indentation" and 1% some crazy other thing :( < 1398496657 820070 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1398496666 765572 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in languages with first class functions and varargs, all we need for van Laarhoven lenses and traversals are first class functions and varargs < 1398496691 699671 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Still have yet to really prove the traversals thing) < 1398496905 11236 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.196.17 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398496905 271512 :shikhin!~shikhin@59.177.196.17 QUIT :Changing host < 1398496905 418741 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1398497213 26450 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398499086 772367 :kmc!~keegan@ec2-50-17-127-187.compute-1.amazonaws.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ferns have swimming sperm? wtf < 1398499248 981973 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1398499342 229238 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : there's a 49% chance it's either "infinite type", 49% chance it's "indentation" and 1% some crazy other thing :( <-- so what about the remaining 1% < 1398499354 709772 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or did you mean 2% for the last one < 1398499377 861544 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or 49.5 for the first two) < 1398500261 554083 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1398500375 353142 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1398500429 955528 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Are my lenses any distinct from the store model? < 1398500440 929446 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I don't actually understand the store model < 1398500546 911070 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep thinking it's all connected, that model, my model (just converting the typeclasses into something more concrete), CPS... that type that these have look all CPSy < 1398500872 250378 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr NICK :Slereah < 1398501020 351592 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1398501301 877293 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-29-210.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1398502485 747549 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3 < 1398503057 837921 :augur_!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1398504361 572411 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398507120 709677 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1398507357 140243 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1398507397 316654 :nooodl!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1398507696 441620 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398508300 440624 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@94-224-29-210.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398508427 14436 :kronion!~kronion@195.64.206.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398508585 62180 :FreeFull_!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover NICK :FreeFull < 1398509231 665963 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1398510170 402354 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Hollang14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39406&oldid=39367 5* 03Zerk 5* (+888) 10 < 1398510304 406953 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, HackEgo reports changes to the wiki now < 1398510314 361328 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird that it's that bot doing it, it doesn't fit in that well with HackEgo's normal behviour < 1398510436 244308 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :We should create a new bot to announce them, then < 1398511085 685101 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.asrock.com/microsite/mining/index.en.html < 1398511247 148989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was the path of least resistance. < 1398511254 582807 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1398511294 919443 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's already running on the same server as the wiki, it's already on the right IRC channel, and there was already an easy way to hook up extra inputs.) < 1398511759 741823 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1398512295 953192 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF903EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1398512296 272815 :nucular!~MOO@p4FF903EB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Changing host < 1398512296 420724 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular JOIN :#esoteric < 1398514372 380272 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398514403 754235 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398514430 77038 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398515527 466324 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398515557 118740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398515560 815800 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398515786 707486 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398515797 686726 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398516052 407678 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398516060 479888 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398518525 953976 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1398519517 898665 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398519585 927896 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39407&oldid=39403 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+36) 10 < 1398519624 74052 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39408&oldid=39407 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (-35) 10Undo revision 39407 by [[Special:Contributions/Creeparoo|Creeparoo]] ([[User talk:Creeparoo|talk]]) < 1398519645 878783 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39409&oldid=39408 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (-47) 10 < 1398519884 752431 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39410&oldid=39409 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+25) 10 < 1398519959 241928 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39411&oldid=39410 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+26) 10 < 1398520012 864986 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39412&oldid=39411 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (-25) 10 < 1398520078 985130 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39413&oldid=39412 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+50) 10Undo revision 39412 by [[Special:Contributions/Creeparoo|Creeparoo]] ([[User talk:Creeparoo|talk]]) < 1398520178 559245 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1398520179 921024 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1398520223 288460 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398520922 897338 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398521116 3060 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398521192 750007 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1398521204 518380 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 255 seconds < 1398521206 126802 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1398521219 284278 :scarf!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398521352 856487 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1398521836 875769 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398521843 160126 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398521853 669409 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398522008 911867 :impomatic!~digital_w@39.123.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 265 seconds < 1398522253 666500 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39414&oldid=39413 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+252) 10 < 1398522443 233959 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398522447 468508 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1398522603 984132 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 M10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39415&oldid=39340 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+11) 10 < 1398522679 220464 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39416&oldid=39414 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+1) 10 < 1398522687 163617 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398522798 622054 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how the "Poop" text shows up brown in fbcon < 1398522844 29928 :olsner!~salparot@c83-252-203-32.bredband.comhem.se PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brown here too, but all page titles have the same brown so < 1398522899 799270 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just amusing coincidence < 1398522998 781961 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're IRCing in fbcon? < 1398523016 399682 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many fbcons do you have open right now (as in, running programs other than login/getty)? < 1398523026 351595 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1398523039 766679 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1398523109 935131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people use multitasking window managers < 1398523122 454408 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I was curious what life was like for someone who didn't < 1398523141 721318 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my t61p now refuses to start up so I'm back to my t20 I've been using for past 2 years < 1398523172 817899 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actally not that bad unless you like to watch a lot of videos or play games < 1398523188 564631 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use heavy webapps < 1398523189 416572 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aalib can solve the first problem < 1398523212 75800 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm using fbdev2 driver for mplayer when I watch stuff < 1398523214 678766 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some games can run in framebuffer mode (thus on an fbcon console, although fbcon itself isn't doing the graphics) < 1398523224 552557 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :more refering to my 600MHz CPU < 1398523229 519335 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1398523263 97976 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny going from 2.2GHz core 2 duo to 600MHz p3 without much trouble < 1398523272 34983 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played Battle for Wesnoth in framebuffer mode, although it has graphical glitches with transparency < 1398523299 288944 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I can get sdl to display to fb < 1398523312 595445 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anything that uses sdl backend should run" < 1398523316 985739 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :-" < 1398523326 568081 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to use a framebuffer console for just about everything, too, though that was perhaps a decade ago. < 1398523334 173241 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"mplayer -vo mga" and so on. < 1398523345 712005 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mga? < 1398523353 907438 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Matrox-specific video driver. < 1398523360 109677 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398523364 415830 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a Matrox Mystique 220 card, I think. < 1398523365 231540 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try NetHack 4 tiles on framebuffer some time < 1398523372 98550 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic séo < 1398523387 492346 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1398523393 417291 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and later I had a v. fancy AGP card, I think it was the G400. < 1398523428 481327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "-vo mga" worked fine in conjunction with matroxfb, used a hardware video overlay. < 1398523570 48518 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also my "rdiff-backup"-based backup thing is running out of memory. :/ < 1398523663 544515 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1398523834 352372 :kronion_!~kronion@195.64.206.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398524041 991753 :kronion!~kronion@195.64.206.231 QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398524233 420217 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=574379 open since 2010, I see. < 1398524518 118933 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1398524526 434514 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398524566 927932 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398526764 841791 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1398526773 360450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398527428 829838 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1398527617 665603 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1398528154 388172 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398528156 398750 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1398528171 766432 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1398528496 407409 :MoALTz!~no@user-109-243-247-192.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1398529853 263562 :kronion_!~kronion@195.64.206.231 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398529882 756314 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39417&oldid=39416 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+13) 10 < 1398529886 381248 :kronion!~kronion@195.64.206.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1398529918 983454 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39418&oldid=39417 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+20) 10 < 1398530075 874743 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Poop14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39419&oldid=39418 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+165) 10 < 1398530199 442581 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Joke language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39420&oldid=39368 5* 03Creeparoo 5* (+11) 10 < 1398530770 246633 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-urhyztryzjblplqa JOIN :#esoteric < 1398531823 768121 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Your benchmark sounds bad. :P < 1398531832 283632 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: Is is somewhat complicated though, yes. < 1398531852 507859 :pikhq!~pikhq@2602:100:18b2:fbfb:a60:6eff:fece:493 PRIVMSG #esoteric :int-e: In exchange you get execution time that's a function of the sortedness of your input. < 1398533185 380076 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-urhyztryzjblplqa QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2 < 1398533360 380990 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-nlpdiblvvelsjbfd JOIN :#esoteric < 1398533597 684929 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/23zmoz/lost_life_savings_60_btc_while_transferring_to/ < 1398533601 840253 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love bitcoin, it's so easy < 1398533683 459707 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre JOIN :#esoteric < 1398533763 116572 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you have to do is buy a new laptop, install linux and a browser on it and never use it for anything but bitcoin < 1398533776 220103 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might not even have all your money stolen! < 1398533848 238228 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you have to send them one at a time < 1398534554 762154 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saying I should spend $500 on a laptop to manage $0 worth of bitcoins. < 1398535573 864558 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: your lenses are store lenses sans newtype < 1398535608 517730 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1398535926 921972 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric : /lastlog Sgeo 3 < 1398536079 292955 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1398537087 444537 :nisstyre!~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre QUIT :Quit: bai < 1398537536 980061 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :edwardk: ah < 1398537546 485799 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What were the limitations of store lenses? < 1398537606 370008 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Beyond at least my lenses being unable to do traversals.... if translated into a language with varargs, I think that problem goes away) < 1398537607 761940 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just composition needing a custom category, not coercing up/down to subtypes automatically, that the args in your form aren't in the right order for what tends to get substituted/for point free writing, etc. < 1398537648 954946 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Lens s t a b = forall f. Functor f => s -> (a -> f b) -> f t < 1398537655 365231 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Lens s t a b = forall f. Applicative f => s -> (a -> f b) -> f t as a < 1398537659 434506 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1398537667 433470 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :type Traversal s t a b = forall f. Applicative f => s -> (a -> f b) -> f t < 1398537670 431951 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point one seems to be moot without the newtype < 1398537688 870556 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i use these in lens secretly < 1398537719 457074 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... don't have those subtypes, at least in the Haskell version < 1398537727 131723 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1398537733 498436 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which makes me sad < 1398537734 713418 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :just showing you can generalize this pattern < 1398537748 864355 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :lens, the only Haskell library whose implementation and use are on topic in this channel :) < 1398537755 81678 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :=) < 1398537800 756757 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can figure out how to make a Getter in the Racket version, but it's kind of ugly. Not sure about Setter < 1398537841 297398 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (lambda (o) ((f (somefunc o)) (lambda (useless) (error "Cannot use as a setter"))))) < 1398537862 787832 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, no somefunc < 1398537878 302773 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, yes somefunc < 1398537911 486490 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try to transliterate actual Haskell Getters/Setters < 1398537927 653703 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :What language is that? < 1398537933 556135 :mroman!~roman2@80.246.50.48 PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks lispy < 1398537939 754734 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme + error < 1398537979 739339 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a document of each kind of thing lens has + what they are < 1398537990 135814 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. type Getter blah = blah < 1398537993 989312 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or am I going source diving? < 1398538185 789251 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/lens/wiki/Synonyms-by-Constraints but you can also just look in Control.Lens.Type < 1398538231 491973 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you < 1398538237 536844 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i thought shachaf wrote a page summarizing < 1398538254 352048 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/ekmett/lens/wiki/Types < 1398538338 182950 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so outdated. < 1398539488 682617 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Language list14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39421&oldid=39415 5* 03Fizzie 5* (-11) 10/* P */ If it's on the Joke language list, I guess it's not on the Language list < 1398541614 477012 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I have some reason to believe my traversals may be wrong < 1398541652 377539 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have reason to believe that < 1398541776 571305 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I'm assuming that the traversal is given an f that can take 0 or more arguments, but am returning something that is only capable of taking one argument < 1398542249 581993 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what do your traversals look like? < 1398542259 251577 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were looking like < 1398542283 688578 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda (f) (lambda (o) ((f (car o) (cdr o)) cons))) < 1398542316 374355 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that, when given an f, results in a function that can only take one argument < 1398542328 393549 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t (.) < 1398542329 263210 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(b -> c) -> (a -> b) -> a -> c < 1398542395 788773 :nooodl_!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1398542516 788726 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can make that iinner lambda take an arbitrary amount of arguments, but I think to get them to compose with lenses, I need to make lenses do that too. It would start to get verbose < 1398542633 818150 :nooodl!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1398542682 81487 :nooodl_!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :nooodl < 1398542953 360732 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, hold on < 1398543093 931437 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, not sure if it's f's responsibility to return something that can be used like f, or the optical's (is that the right term) responsibility < 1398543203 478614 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should know this stuff < 1398543338 401026 :kronion!~kronion@195.64.206.231 QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1398543745 648150 :nucular!~MOO@unaffiliated/nucular QUIT :Quit: Switching to phone < 1398544727 252228 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1398545965 512720 :boily!alexandre@nat/northsec/x-nlpdiblvvelsjbfd QUIT :Quit: ISO 7816 CHICKEN < 1398546048 805800 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1398546498 877549 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :recommend me a lightweight linux distro that still does graphical mode and other modern stuff < 1398546535 626474 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :(must run on i586) < 1398546574 375172 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What "other modern stuff" do you mean? IPv6? < 1398546692 453715 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've moved on, the modern thing is IPv8 < 1398546737 383495 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean stuff like linux 3.x series kernel and library versons from this decade < 1398546779 551409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1398546788 770578 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know much about Linux distro < 1398546858 369805 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1398546887 509289 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch? < 1398546905 435450 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lxdm is "lightweight" i guess < 1398546915 996554 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch runs nicely with 128MB of ram on a i586? < 1398546920 257148 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :lxde rather < 1398546926 938138 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell if i know, i live in 2014 < 1398546969 983577 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know why it wouldn't, though. you'd be installing most everything on your own. maybe you don't want sudo < 1398546996 255542 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know many distros set a baseline of i686 nowadays < 1398547021 985801 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_Arch_i586 well it looks nontrivial i guess < 1398547057 199520 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://distrowatch.com/search.php?architecture=i586 openSUSE! oh boy! < 1398547092 429237 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it with Slackware these days? < 1398547100 23730 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd've sort of assumed. < 1398547289 433774 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lots of "i486" in the file names in slackware-current/, at least. < 1398547334 419718 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.slackware.com/install/sysreq.php "486 processor" "64MB RAM (1GB+ suggested)" "About 5GB+ of hard disk space for a full install" < 1398547378 409775 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. < 1398547420 107883 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about modern, but 14.1 has a 3.10.17 kernel and all. < 1398547475 539652 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14.0 release notes:] "Since our last stable release, a lot has changed in the Linux and FOSS world. The kernel has moved on to major version 3 (we're using the long term supported 3.2.29 kernel for this release), X.org has released X11R7.7, and Firefox has had a whopping *11* major releases to arrive at version 15.0.1! We've brought together the best of these and other modern components and ... < 1398547481 559077 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... worked our magic on them. You'll find new compilers (including the LLVM/clang compiler that's becoming a popular alternative to gcc), development tools, libraries, and applications throughout, all prepared with our careful and rigourous testing. If you've used Slackware before, you'll find the system feels like home. But we've also added new features such as NetworkManager for easy setup ... < 1398547487 555405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and management of wired and wireless networking (or, you can still use the traditional network setup if you prefer)." < 1398547828 412571 :nooodl_!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1398548031 539480 :nooodl!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398548391 493483 :augur!~augur@129-2-129-32.wireless.umd.edu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1398548549 697751 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a slide rule marked "PICKETT ALL METAL SLIDE RULES". < 1398548558 961677 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any slide rules? < 1398548642 337315 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1398548810 933633 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about slide guidelines? < 1398548857 421689 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but there was a collection of slide rules at the National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140426-slide.jpg < 1398548970 947729 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3, 2 pocket-sized ones and one full-sized < 1398549008 421470 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a pretty good substitute for the required calculator, at school < 1398549610 873237 :nooodl_!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be NICK :nooodl < 1398550424 328568 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a slide rule < 1398550499 915353 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a slide < 1398550535 71569 :kallisti!~adam@h29.17.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1398550540 33981 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, kallisti < 1398550559 704430 :kallisti!~adam@h29.17.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :jswhiuhsduyhweerh < 1398550561 311229 :kallisti!~adam@h29.17.40.69.dynamic.ip.windstream.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1398550869 809619 :Slereah!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 252 seconds < 1398550955 481421 :augur!~augur@pool-71-178-131-150.washdc.east.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1398550979 128407 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1398551127 868701 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1398551593 780686 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Manufactoria14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39422&oldid=38754 5* 03Quincunx 5* (+1666) 10Corrected an error in the branching section, added input, some minor edits < 1398551969 359683 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my lenses are correct and I need to just rethink my traversals < 1398552019 434420 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1398552019 579117 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1398552445 168934 :Slereah_!~jackal@bau91-h01-176-189-82-82.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1398552473 119891 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1398552627 54306 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: ok thinking about this in another way: if you have a set S with infinitely many graphs, given by an oracle which will test any particular graphs you want, then there is no way for an algorithm to halt with a minimal set of forbidden graphs that is guaranteed to be correct. < 1398552653 583952 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there will also be a graph in S that is larger than any the algorithm has tested. < 1398552657 776434 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*always be < 1398552692 513180 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*algorithm using that oracle < 1398552725 957799 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't need to test graphs directly though. you can test proofs < 1398552760 801596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm just saying you cannot do it for something given by an oracle. < 1398552881 348024 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if the oracle were an always halting algorithm and you had a proof that it always halted and that it was closed under graph minors, i'm not sure < 1398552900 485684 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@hoogle (Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> (c -> f c) < 1398552901 362814 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable traverse_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => (a -> f b) -> t a -> f () < 1398552901 507777 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Foldable for_ :: (Foldable t, Applicative f) => t a -> (a -> f b) -> f () < 1398552901 507852 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data.Data gfoldl :: Data a => (forall d b. Data d => c (d -> b) -> d -> c b) -> (forall g. g -> c g) -> a -> c a < 1398552925 468291 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: why two c's? < 1398552937 383971 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to get pure from that (a -> f b) < 1398552993 188263 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be terrible if I had a Racket function called pure that wasn't the actual pure, but got pure from the (a -> f b)? < 1398553004 794163 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: \_ c -> pure c hth < 1398553024 540012 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t \_ c -> pure c < 1398553025 361979 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative f => t -> a -> f a < 1398553036 681243 :nooodl_!~nooodl@18.169-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1398553054 28234 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :@pl \_ c -> pure c < 1398553054 173304 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :const pure < 1398553073 936339 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Racket, I wouldn't be ignoring the argument < 1398553082 221128 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is becoming too much like simulating typeclasses < 1398553095 638274 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i don't think you can do that. what if the function in was \x -> [x,x] ? < 1398553160 998909 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need it to have the same structure as a pure result to work, i.e. just one list element for [] < 1398553172 501738 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter, const [] < 1398553242 694450 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i am pretty sure you _cannot_ construct pure from (const azero) using only <*> for a nontrivial Alternative < 1398553253 340494 :nooodl!~nooodl@187.131-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1398553255 516885 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t azero < 1398553256 495497 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Not in scope: ‘azero’ < 1398553256 640421 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Perhaps you meant ‘mzero’ (imported from Control.Monad.Writer) < 1398553259 636252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1398553265 845667 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@src Alternative < 1398553265 990624 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Applicative f => Alternative f where < 1398553265 990692 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : empty :: f a < 1398553265 990729 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : (<|>) :: f a -> f a -> f a < 1398553272 26213 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's called empty < 1398553291 829879 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t empty < 1398553292 662119 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternative f => f a < 1398553306 837943 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something that will frequently clash < 1398553310 565841 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused. You can't get more than one `pure` from (a -> f b) < 1398553311 994421 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t M.empty < 1398553312 886040 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :M.Map k a < 1398553340 783308 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um what do you mean by (a -> f b) < 1398553349 538384 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Applicative f => (a -> f b) < 1398553387 650098 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is an indexed writer monad the "most obvious" indexed monad? < 1398553418 649731 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: um that's the opposite of clarifying < 1398553425 414329 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In terms of other monads to make a indexed monad of) < 1398553426 258769 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: "moving around" in a category? < 1398553437 887265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, where do you expect to get such a function _from_? < 1398553459 581004 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: passed in to a traversal < 1398553466 72653 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: What do you mean by that? < 1398553468 518590 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oh right < 1398553493 53108 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: just trying to understand why you consider it the most obvious. I'd probably put indexed state higher up there, but it seems fairly subjective < 1398553510 866898 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: well how do you know it's not passed something like const [] ? < 1398553539 835376 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the problem with const []? < 1398553565 956137 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that there is _no_ way to construct pure from it without using pure hth < 1398553576 217746 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yes it probably is subjective; I just wanted to know, opinion. The reason I considered it "most obvious" is that, writer monad is holding a value of a monoid, and join (or <*>) will compose it as a monoid. Indexed monad seems to follow like a category does, so using a category instead of a monoid; that is why. < 1398553603 293509 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found indexed state less obvious and did not even think of it until someone told me, actually. (Now, of course, it is clear, but at the time, it wasn't) < 1398553612 393741 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in an applicative-generic way) < 1398553615 402219 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking at this point, in Racket, I would need to store something other than the function < 1398553625 391227 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, back to not just pure functions < 1398553626 373954 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1398553654 655684 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :...that doesn't work, does it < 1398553711 299960 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: And why do you consider indexed state higher up there? < 1398553778 576802 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, just seems fairly intuitive to think of "the state type changes as you go along", and the type matches that exactly < 1398553782 863395 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: another problem is that you might not have any a to pass into the function. < 1398553831 195060 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you cannot even apply it just to check the type of the result. < 1398553868 930458 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter, it might not terminate on any input :P < 1398553894 914647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :all kinds of things can go wrong when you don't have inferred result types... < 1398553916 793321 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :copumpkin: Yes it does, once it is mentioned; I was just saying that it doesn't seem so obvious to me before it is mentioned; indexed writer seems more obvious when you don't know much about indexed monads yet and just try to figure out, at least to me. < 1398554186 883884 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ < 1398554372 343624 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am making more of taillib (the C version), and am considering some of your suggestions; I am adding stuff such as taillib_make_instruction and taillib_make_object and so on. Do you have further suggestions? Do you have suggestions for the Haskell interface? < 1398554413 517941 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unfortunately, none of this has been tested yet, although it does compile. I have, however, already found a few mistakes and corrected them.) < 1398554515 914177 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = in x < 1398554517 26864 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:9: parse error on input ‘in’ < 1398554540 320266 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let x = 3 of x < 1398554541 523581 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : :1:11: parse error on input ‘of’ < 1398554655 698482 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any C compilers that have the program die at runtime on any undefined behavior? < 1398554699 293469 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspect there is undefined behavior that is undecidable to detect < 1398554738 405081 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compilers tend to exploit undefined behaviour internally during optimisation < 1398554762 606162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :C compilers that target the AS/400 "Future Systems" instruction set will cause the program to raise an exception at runtime on any undefined behavior. < 1398554773 30923 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: undecideable at runtime, though? < 1398554785 486654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: why not < 1398554801 799380 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there's linty things like http://blog.regehr.org/archives/905 and valgrind i guess < 1398554924 600467 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, that "infinite loops are undefined behavior" thing sounds like a good bet < 1398554959 168783 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was in C++, though. < 1398554964 182794 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1398555053 203385 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would an infinite loop be undefined behavior? < 1398555065 658803 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the optimizer is allowed to assume that the code terminates < 1398555079 71389 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that compiler writers get to optimize it away < 1398555104 492288 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :An infinite loop should not be considered undefined behavior if it contains any impure code. < 1398555122 215374 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C++ rule has a couple of qualifiers too. < 1398555125 304563 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, the rule was that if it didn't access I/O or memory and whatever other crap it could be assumed to terminate < 1398555135 657885 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :fhttp://stackoverflow.com/questions/3592557/optimizing-away-a-while1-in-c0x < 1398555172 360800 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"makes no calls to library I/O functions, and does not access or modify volatile objects, and performs no synchronization operations (1.10) or atomic operations (Clause 29)" < 1398555223 629778 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I suppose, that is similar to what I said. < 1398555240 672942 :tswett!~tswett@unaffiliated/tswett JOIN :#esoteric < 1398555334 708874 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/dev/sdc: Unknown USB bridge [0x2537:0x1068 (0x100)]" aw, now smartctl no longer works. < 1398555600 138168 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it works with "-d sat". I guess I should tell that to someone. < 1398555780 925168 :tswett29!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1398555790 891752 :tswett29!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Topology! < 1398555809 173330 :tswett29!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah! < 1398555900 932278 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I guess if you need to do anything semidecidable then C and C++ just aren't the languages for you. < 1398555943 606012 :tswett29!~tswett@c-107-5-152-253.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of an element of the Sierpinski space. Can anyone guess what it is? < 1398555980 601786 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Spoken as a theoretical computer scientist; the example of a daemon that runs indefinitely just isn't interesting then.) < 1398556033 898349 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :tswett29: is it the open one twh < 1398556066 236094 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1398556089 270648 :Bike!~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing 0 < 1398556089 415611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: itt tswett29 never answers < 1398556090 274942 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION hands out coffee cups and donuts to everyone
< 1398556193 5333 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: 's ok i can just ban him < 1398556206 991799 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be an unjust ban hth < 1398556236 245035 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you, maybe i should ban you too < 1398556292 756050 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is described in http://www.literature.org/authors/carroll-lewis/the-hunting-of-the-snark/chapter-06.html < 1398556355 470633 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the Judge said he never had summed up before; / So the Snark undertook it instead, / And summed it so well that it came to far more / Than the Witnesses ever had said! < 1398556363 718239 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :good agony < 1398556407 799115 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story