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00:08:36 <HackEgo> /home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: : not found
00:08:44 <HackEgo> twh would help, but is an hth derivative. hth. twh. hand.
00:08:55 <coppro> oerjan: yes, I was assuming you have a decideable set, so you have a proof it's closed under graph minors and an algorithm to decide membership
00:09:19 <tswett29> Sgeo: if you need to do anything semidecidable, then it's captured by the notion of an open set in topology.
00:09:20 <coppro> an oracle is too strong
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00:36:51 <Jafet> "SuperBlade® Offers: * Highest computing density [...] * Unsurpassed TCO"
00:39:29 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Manufactoria]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39423&oldid=39422 * Quincunx * (+72)
00:40:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Manufactoria]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39424&oldid=39423 * Quincunx * (-2) Urgh. Forgot to edit category
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01:46:49 <Bike> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/unity/+bug/1308572 ha ha ha ha
01:54:03 <zzo38> Tell me if this library and document is OK? http://zzo38computer.org/taillib/taillib.zip
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02:07:00 <Jafet> Is that really a security bug? It assumes the attacker has physical access
02:07:35 <coppro> Jafet: yes. it gives you access to a running session
02:07:41 <oerjan> screen locking usually does assume that
02:07:44 <coppro> and the attacker may not have physical access
02:07:48 <elliott> it's almost as if lock screens are meant to protect from physical access, huh
02:08:22 <coppro> you can have physical access to the interface devices without having physical access to the actual computer
02:09:09 <elliott> what are you talking about it's not as if tons of publicly-accessible devices use computers underneath!!
02:09:12 <Bike> like what if the computer is on mars and i have access to the voyager probe
02:09:37 <Bike> seeing windows errors on atms or whatever is always a bit odd
02:09:58 <Jafet> I thought linux desktops had screen lockers because windows did the same thing and people have come to expect them
02:10:35 <Jafet> It's not like desktop distros have any security anyway
02:10:59 <elliott> you do it all the time and you know you're doing it
02:11:19 <zzo38> Jafet: Security can still be have for programs to access other programs, even if the user with physical access is allowed to do everything.
02:11:34 <elliott> like less than half the things you say are sincere rather than just bait to let you be incredulous at people
02:12:27 <zzo38> Installing Windows or Linux on such a computers as ATM or whatever can have problem and should not be done. If you need an operating system at all, you can install DOS or whatever
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02:12:53 <zzo38> DOS is much faster than Linux and Windows.
02:15:03 <Bike> withdrawing money at a million dollars an hour
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02:29:06 <HackEgo> jotcoin isangcoin birdcoin withis=thagcoin eftatecoin tlfecoin xochicksonideutunaperetunadowelseptaterpardottercoin 242150coin padsomcoin isepolistcoin celecoincoin checoin reversitecoin weakcoin xtccoin carinheacoin skulacoin fracoin cluncoin avowlcoin
02:29:16 <kmc> zzo38: you should write a bitcoin miner for DOS
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02:32:40 <oerjan> dos runs so badly on asics
02:32:59 <kmc> depends which kind
02:34:09 <zzo38> But not all ASICs are designed to run all computer programs.
02:37:30 <oerjan> psst, i'm making a joke on the fact that bitcoin mining on cpus isn't profitable hth
02:40:05 <Bike> there should be a computer made of superconducting materials so you never have to power it
02:41:32 <oerjan> Bike: needs to do reversible computing by landauer's principle
02:41:44 <Bike> xactly, i'll just make some fredkin gates and call it good
02:41:54 <oerjan> elliott: which is why i didn't say gpus DUH
02:42:09 <oerjan> (i read somewhere that even the asic miners are losing money though)
02:42:32 <Bike> i wonder if you could do it so that it only hit resistors on a successful output
02:42:53 <Bike> then all you'd be spending is time. and coolant
02:44:29 <shachaf> whoa, so many global hashes per second
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02:45:49 <tswett28> So all the Bitcoin miners in the world could brute force 56-bit encryption about once per second in total.
02:46:43 <tswett28> Assuming their ASICs aren't application-specific.
02:47:03 <tswett28> So if you had all that computing power at your disposal, then in 600 seconds, you could either break 600 56-bit encryption doodies, or earn $460.
02:47:27 <Jafet> "Application-specific integrated circuit"
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02:48:53 <lambdabot> (Field4 s t a1 b, Functor f) => Getting a ((a1 -> f b) -> s -> f t) a -> a
02:49:55 <lambdabot> Could not deduce (Control.Lens.Tuple.Field4 [t0] [t0] a a)
02:49:55 <lambdabot> arising from the ambiguity check for ‘e_1134’
02:49:55 <lambdabot> from the context (Control.Lens.Tuple.Field4 [t] [t] a a,
02:50:20 <oerjan> > (1,2,"many",1/0)^._4
02:51:23 <oerjan> type Getting r s a = (a -> Const r a) -> s -> Const r s hth
02:52:38 <Bike> stupid commands
02:52:39 <lambdabot> Source not found. Abort, Retry, Panic?
02:53:11 <oerjan> newtype Const a b = Const a or thereabouts
02:53:46 <Bike> makes no sense to me
02:54:35 <oerjan> well that Getting type matches a lens if you use Const r as the functor
02:55:17 <oerjan> which is what you do to "get" the value of the lens field
02:56:33 <zzo38> I have once independently implemented a very restrictive kind of lenses before I knew what "lens" meant. But, now I know it better.
02:58:01 <zzo38> Which could not use two types.
03:03:40 <Sgeo> Is there any reason I couldn't have pure effectively return a lazy value that gets a real result once the type is known by a different mechanism?
03:04:01 <Sgeo> 'hey, this value is pure of some unknown applicative, when I find out, I'll turn into something useful'
03:04:47 <shachaf> that is how type classes work
03:05:18 <Sgeo> I was hoping to not have to significantly fake type classes
03:05:24 <Sgeo> I didn't have to do much for Functor
03:07:38 <Bike> you don't want to have to fake type classes to implement a type class?
03:07:48 <shachaf> sounds like a question for #racket or #rebol or #ada or #sgeolanguage
03:09:07 <Sgeo> Bike: trying to find the balance between translating an idea that works very well in one language and avoiding blind copying that ignores the value that the destination language provides
03:09:37 <oerjan> > imapped %@~ replicate $ ['a'..'z']
03:09:38 <lambdabot> ["","b","cc","ddd","eeee","fffff","gggggg","hhhhhhh","iiiiiiii","jjjjjjjjj",...
03:10:00 <Bike> it's just, functor only has the one method, so you only need to worry about the one function and don't have to coordinate anything
03:10:17 <shachaf> > imap replicate ['a'..'z']
03:10:18 <lambdabot> ["","b","cc","ddd","eeee","fffff","gggggg","hhhhhhh","iiiiiiii","jjjjjjjjj",...
03:10:54 <Bike> so... of course that won't be adequate for applicative, which has two.
03:11:12 <shachaf> imap is a v. popular email protocol
03:11:36 <Sgeo> It's not so much a matter of Applicative having two methods, as to the fact that one of those methods puts an applicative value in a positive position without having one in a negative position
03:11:37 <oerjan> shachaf: NOT INSCRUTABLE ENOUGH HTH
03:11:37 <lambdabot> FunctorWithIndex i f => (i -> a -> b) -> f a -> f b
03:11:44 <Sgeo> (is that the right terminology)?
03:11:53 <Bike> oh fuck off, i have enough problems with signs in electrochemistry
03:11:53 <Sgeo> I like to think of Applicative as being just one method, lift
03:11:55 <shachaf> Bike: imo that type is fairly legible, isn't it?
03:12:04 <Bike> i'm not the guy to ask.
03:12:09 <shachaf> Bike: adjunctions are the worst btw
03:12:28 <shachaf> and/or category theory in general
03:12:32 <Sgeo> Bike: Applicative's pure can create an (Applicative f) => f a without access to an f anything
03:12:37 <shachaf> it's like someone invented a math whose whole purpose was to make it as easy as possible to make sign errors
03:12:40 <Bike> yeah, i figured that out
03:12:50 <Bike> "positive" and "negative" is a weird way to put it
03:13:10 <Sgeo> (lift somefunc a1 a2 a3) is fine, (lift somefunc a1) fine, (lift somefunc) err
03:13:15 <Bike> but i remember i used to not understand those sorts of types. thankfully, i'm a haskell god now
03:13:17 <Sgeo> Bike: I could swear I've seen it somewhere
03:13:54 <Bike> it seems to me that values like that are only easy to deal with because of type inference, so...
03:14:37 <shachaf> oerjan: you should join #-lens
03:15:23 <Sgeo> I think positive/negative makes sense... ((a -> b) -> c), the a is in negative position relative to the (a -> b), the (a -> b) is in negative position relative to the whole function, so - * - = +, a is in positive position relative to the whole function, which needs to produce an a at some point
03:15:31 <Sgeo> Or, maybe not 'needs'
03:15:37 <Sgeo> But it doesn't consume an aa
03:15:44 <Bike> no, look, fuck you, cathode/anode is already too much
03:16:14 <shachaf> you know how (a -> b) is like (¬a | b)?
03:17:26 <Sgeo> I can't tell if that's interesting or a joke
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03:18:43 <Bike> math is all about acting like stupid jokes are interesting. umbral calculus
03:34:53 <int-e> umbral calculus leave you in the dark :P
04:02:52 <zzo38> shachaf: But Haskell types are intuitionistic logic rather than being classical logic (but, you can use continuation transform to make classical logic out of intuitionistic logic, too)
04:03:15 <shachaf> zzo38: hence "except in haskell"
04:16:51 <zzo38> But Haskell isn't the only thing that it is
04:18:27 <zzo38> Intuitionistic logic is still a kind of a logical system, and so is linear logic, and classical logic.
04:19:25 <Bike> is Tetra Master a logical system
04:21:32 <zzo38> \f -> either (Left . f) Right <$> lemCC
04:22:22 <Bike> i'm not sure that answers my question
04:22:32 <zzo38> For f in Kleisli category: \f -> fmap (f >=>) <$> lemCC
04:22:55 <zzo38> Bike: I am not answering your question I am answering shachaf's question.
04:23:08 <fowl> Bike, yes, tetris logic
04:23:14 <fowl> turn the blocks
04:25:58 <zzo38> shachaf: I mean, I answered your answer.
04:28:40 <zzo38> In case you don't know what lemCC means, then I can tell you: lemCC = callCC (return . Right . (<=< return . Left)); or lemCC = ContT $ \c -> c $ Right (\a -> ContT $ \_ -> c (Left a)); or callCC x = lemCC >>= either return x;
04:29:39 <zzo38> In other words, "except in Haskell" isn't quite right, because if you are using continuations then it is right.
04:29:40 <shachaf> the real question is what Stanisław Lem thinks of continuations
04:30:40 <zzo38> I don't know, but in this case "lem" is short for "law of excluded middle".
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04:30:43 <Bike> pirx continuated pretty far
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04:31:12 <zzo38> (I also don't know who Stanislaw Len is)
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04:33:12 <zzo38> Law of excluded middle continuations might be a bit easier than call/cc for some people, possibly.
04:35:07 <oerjan> zzo38: famous polish scifi author
04:35:23 <zzo38> O, that's who it is.
04:36:00 <HackEgo> [U+0074 LATIN SMALL LETTER T] [U+0335 COMBINING SHORT STROKE OVERLAY]
04:37:17 <Sgeo> I'm having some difficulty with figuring out how to use LastPass
04:44:57 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Quincunx]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39425&oldid=39405 * Oerjan * (+0) /* Circuit Diagram 10 */ sp.
04:46:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Trainscript]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39426&oldid=39404 * Oerjan * (+5) sp link
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07:40:01 <mroman> What again was the criteria for using Chans vs. MVar?
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09:20:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Quincunx]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39427&oldid=39425 * Quincunx * (+1307) /* Roguelike */
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12:30:50 <Taneb> int-e, can you quickly put lambdabot in #cs-york again?
12:39:32 <int-e> this keeps comingup. do you want to have it there permanently?
12:44:50 <Taneb> No, it's a controversial bot in the channel
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13:02:15 <int-e> Pah. x86_64 has tagged TLBs but they are being wasted on hypervisor support. Boring.
13:04:11 <int-e> (Presumably they added tags because otherwise nested page tables would become ridiculously expensive.)
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14:41:19 <zzo38> Is it possible to program lambdabot so that it can be invited and kicked? So that, you don't have to keep asking them
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15:25:45 <Taneb> I don't have op in that channel
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15:54:02 <b_jonas> zzo38: I tried to make an experimental bot of mine do that once: when you invite it, it joins. there doesn't need to be much special handling for kicking though.
15:56:28 <b_jonas> zzo38: do you know of something like a balanced search tree automatically maintained by sql triggers? like, if I add a row to a particular table, triggers will add a node to the search tree representing that row, and that search tree is stored in the same database.
15:56:40 <b_jonas> I asked here earlier and someone's referred me to you.
15:59:10 <zzo38> b_jonas: I don't know of any such thing, although it may be possible. If you want to search in a SQL database, though, you should probably create an index for that purpose. (Creating a search tree may be useful if you want to convert the data into other formats, possibly, though)
16:00:30 <zzo38> What is it you are trying to make, though?
16:00:33 <b_jonas> zzo38: sure, normally you'd use an sql index, which is part of why I'm asking on this channel,
16:00:56 <b_jonas> but I was wondering about something that could be implemented by the database as a sort of index but I haven't yet seen any database engine implement it yet
16:02:02 <b_jonas> even then, a search tree (I was thinking a treap might be the easiest) maintained using triggers might not be the best way.
16:02:10 <zzo38> I myself use SQLite, which now supports recursive WITH clauses. A statement in a trigger is not allowed to start with a WITH clause, though (it can still be used in subqueries and so on).
16:02:24 <zzo38> But still, I don't know what it is you are trying to make.
16:02:44 <b_jonas> Yes, I was thinking about this, and I think it's probably possible to implement in sqlite, but it's very difficult.
16:03:08 <b_jonas> (I'm not sure whether it's possible without a recursive WITH clause.)
16:03:41 <b_jonas> (I mean, it probably is if you use complicated recursive triggers with arbitrarily deep recursion to simulate function calls, but that'd be crazy.)
16:05:04 <b_jonas> It might be possible to do it without recursion if you cheat by using ordinary indexes on the tables storing the tree to find nodes.
16:05:46 <zzo38> O, I always use recursive triggers with deep recursion to simulate function calls (and similar things which do not correspond quite with function calls of most programming languages).
16:05:48 <b_jonas> I mean, if you don't want a balanced search tree, just a search tree, then you can have an index on the tree table to find the node you have to insert under rightaway.
16:06:32 <b_jonas> zzo38: just triggers calling each other to simulate function calls is ok, what I would like to avoid is arbitrarily deep (log tree size deep) recursion that way.
16:07:45 <zzo38> Why do you need a balanced search tree though?
16:08:32 <b_jonas> I don't really need it, mind you, just wondering on it.
16:09:12 <b_jonas> I was thinking of an index that can optimize queries like SELECT min(t.w) FROM t WHERE t.k BETWEEN ? AND ?;
16:09:58 <b_jonas> where min could be any aggregate that is a fold of an associative operation, such as count, min, max, total, sum (ignoring integer overflows)
16:10:13 <zzo38> SQLite has extensions to do that already, including multidimensional search.
16:10:30 <b_jonas> by building a search tree that stores in each node min(t.w) of all descendants of that node
16:11:24 <b_jonas> so if you had a hypotehtical index on t.k covering min(t.w), you could execute such a query in log(count of all rows) time
16:11:59 <b_jonas> because you would just have to add the stored min(w) values in O(log(count of all rows)) nodes in the index
16:12:17 <b_jonas> and the index could be maintained quickly too, as quickly as any search tree based index
16:13:50 <b_jonas> true, a multi-dimensional tree could implement SELECT min(t.w) FROM t WHERE t.k BETWEEN ? AND ?; quickly,
16:14:19 <b_jonas> so maybe SELECT sum(t.w) FROM t WHERE t.k BETWEEN ? AND ?; would be a better example
16:15:27 <b_jonas> imagine that t is changing between queries, otherwise this could be solved easier
16:17:02 <b_jonas> mind you, I don't really have an application for such queries on a dynamically changing table either
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16:20:58 <zzo38> It doesn't seem to useful to me to make a search tree like that unless you need to convert data into another format. Normally I would think you would just use an ordinary index, or if necessary to do so, use a R*Tree index.
16:22:10 <zzo38> But you can try to implement a balance search tree in SQL if you want to!
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16:42:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Circute]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39428&oldid=20063 * Smjg * (-4) /* External resources */ upd8 link
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18:44:24 <Sgeo> How did this website end up so badly done that the images are links to the images? http://logicoin.info/
18:52:36 <mroman> Is it "Hey, I make my own coin" time?
18:52:52 <HackEgo> Argument "#" isn't numeric in int at /hackenv/bin/words line 148. \ coin
18:52:57 <HackEgo> purecoin festiconcoin gularioplincoin thulzacoin discoin limcoin thumamcoin wingcoin mulacoin xingcoin praocoin udatempovacifucoin haibocoin mumothcoin divzcoin partreacoin unbartrelcoin whenservicoin stackcoin kipcoin
18:53:29 <HackEgo> advendocoin ammcoin rincoin gechtcoin pancoin bjectdispcoin nasscoin consomskjcoin modecoin folercoin exjcoin twelcoin memporcoin wpbroketlancoin triicoin prorrelucoin olutecoin subicoin aggedcoin oorcoin
18:53:51 <mroman> wpbroketlancoin sounds good
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18:57:13 <mroman> because who want's a bit when you can have a gigabit
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19:03:13 <Taneb> I am perpetually tempted to make a gold-backed cryptocurrency
19:03:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbols]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39429&oldid=37964 * 50.166.86.223 * (-49)
19:03:57 <Slereah_> Taneb : I think that might be complicated legally
19:04:23 <Taneb> Well, for a start I do not own all that much gold
19:04:44 <Bike> to buy this cocaine you just need to give me a hash of the atomic microstate of your bullion
19:05:01 <Slereah_> But it will change if you heat it :o
19:05:10 <Slereah_> Or leave it alone for a nanosecond, really
19:05:46 <Bike> wealth is fleeting, son
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21:17:34 <fizzie> In other words, the em dash, the two-em dash and the three-em dash.
21:17:58 <fizzie> No four-em dash in Unicode. :/
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21:19:57 <fizzie> And the LEFTWARDS TWO-HEADED TRIPLE DASH ARROW.
21:20:03 <fizzie> (I was looking at things with "DASH" in the name.)
21:21:31 <HackEgo> U+2E3B THREE-EM DASH \ UTF-8: e2 b8 bb UTF-16BE: 2e3b Decimal: ⸻ \ ⸻ \ Category: Pd (Punctuation, Dash) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
21:21:40 <Taneb> `unicode INVISIBLE TIMES
21:22:25 <fizzie> There's also btoh the WAVE DASH (〜) and the WAVY DASH (〰).
21:23:18 <Slereah_> There is a symbol for k and for the k of kelvins
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21:25:31 <fizzie> There's a FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD (U+1F60B), it probably goes well with POT OF FOOD (U+1F372).
21:25:51 <fizzie> Apparently delicious food is the only thing you can savour.
21:26:48 <olsner> I think savouring implies enjoying, so deliciousness may also be implied
21:29:02 <Taneb> `unicode FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD
21:29:02 <HackEgo> U+1F60B FACE SAVOURING DELICIOUS FOOD \ UTF-8: f0 9f 98 8b UTF-16BE: d83dde0b Decimal: 😋 \ 😋 \ Category: So (Symbol, Other) \ Bidi: ON (Other Neutrals)
21:47:24 <fizzie> For me it "works" (it's not terribly savour-y) in browser but not in terminal.
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22:35:22 <Bike> http://www.beige-box.com/libressl/ project is going well
22:42:46 <oerjan> <mroman> What again was the criteria for using Chans vs. MVar? <-- an MVar contains just one value, a Chan a FIFO queue of them...
22:43:03 <oerjan> @tell mroman <mroman> What again was the criteria for using Chans vs. MVar? <-- an MVar contains just one value, a Chan a FIFO queue of them...
22:43:17 <Sgeo> aww, the embed doesn't work
22:43:24 <oerjan> i need to do something about this race condition between @tell'ing and /whois'ing
22:43:25 <Sgeo> It's playing ... either the mp3 or ogg, I think
22:44:09 <Sgeo> The mp3, based on that's what my browser decided to download
22:58:06 <HackEgo> [U+005C REVERSE SOLIDUS] [U+0030 DIGIT ZERO]
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