←2014-05-01 2014-05-02 2014-05-03→ ↑2014 ↑all
00:01:57 <oerjan> i'd like to remind haskellers here and especially edwardk that you can write {-# LANGUAGE Extension1, Extension2, Extension3, ... #-} hth
00:03:53 <boily> (what? neoballs can't be sold in Canada/USA anymore? but I bought some last month!)
00:05:16 * Sgeo Sgeos a bit
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00:05:33 <Sgeo> oerjan: I've been starting to get the impression that people consider that ugly
00:06:34 <oerjan> :(
00:07:04 <Sgeo> I don't know if that's the case, or if people really did forget that that's possible
00:07:20 <Sgeo> I'm jjust basing it on how common one extension per LANGUAGE pragma seems to be
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00:15:26 <edwardk> oerjan: I deliberately don't
00:15:40 <oerjan> darn
00:15:43 <edwardk> that way when I grep -r LANGUAGE src I can take all the results, sort and uniq them
00:16:02 <edwardk> if they are smashed together that becomes awk-ward
00:16:20 <copumpkin> and how else would you make a nice ascending chain?
00:16:26 <edwardk> copumpkin: that too
00:16:32 <oerjan> wat
00:16:35 <edwardk> but the reason was more to do with 'other-extensions:' for cabal
00:16:55 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Homfrog]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39432&oldid=37002 * Homfrog * (-44)
00:19:09 <edwardk> oerjan: i tend to sort them by length
00:20:01 <boily> MyExtensionIsLongerThanYoursSoTheres
00:20:45 <oerjan> Stuff
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00:38:48 <kmc> is there any deep reason that K_4 is planar and K_5 isn't?
00:39:05 <kmc> I remember reading that for a torus there are hundreds of forbidden minors and the exact set isn't known (or wasn't at the time)
00:40:41 * Bike googles. kuratowski's theorem? eh what do i know
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00:46:15 <boily> what the fungot is a torus forbidden mirror?
00:46:15 <fungot> boily: after two more quarries the inhabited part of inquanok seemed to end the business, but i felt that i had no knowledge of what legrasse had learned of simon or jedediah orne of salem. with these men he was often at the ward home to be present when the detectives arrived. allen's destruction or imprisonment or curwen's if one might regard the tacit claim to reincarnation as valid he felt must be accomplished at any cost. a
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01:05:14 <oerjan> minor, boily, not mirror
01:07:54 <kmc> if a graph contains any of these graphs as a minor, it can't be embedded in a torus without edges crossing
01:08:20 <kmc> H is called a minor of the graph G if H can be formed from G by deleting edges and vertices and by contracting edges
01:08:47 <kmc> it's minors not subgraphs because (for example) K_5 is not planar, but clearly it doesn't become any more planar if you stick a node in the middle of each edge
01:09:41 <boily> oerjan: this devastates me.
01:10:00 <boily> I shall quit and drown my sorrows in a dreamless sleep.
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01:10:29 <oerjan> shocking
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01:56:04 <kmc> `coins
01:56:05 <HackEgo> sansisesocoin ntchalcoin tomoufcoin scricoin baktecoin piralcoin sephcoin iincommodacoin braktivecoin tricoin brelumcoin luigcoin revicoin elpicoin excelumcoin wherimcoin brococoin suzcoin bankcoin etartricoin
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02:06:36 <Bike> who here is an expert in biophysical applications of computational fluid dynamics
02:07:22 <oerjan> not me hth
02:08:46 <kmc> fungot: are you an expert in biophysical applications of computational fluid dynamics
02:08:46 <fungot> kmc: his name with fnord fervour fnord. it was very
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03:11:57 <kmc> Bike: what kind of biowhatsit are you doing
03:12:59 <Bike> i was looking at https://github.com/openworm/Smoothed-Particle-Hydrodynamics
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03:14:35 <kmc> awesome
03:14:42 <kmc> Fork C. elegans on GitHub!
03:15:25 <kmc> https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/openworm/openworm-a-digital-organism-in-your-browser
03:15:45 <Bike> unfortunately it's low on details of how it actually does contraction, which is a bit irritating since the contraction simulation in my own lab is way, way, way different and i'm not sure how
03:16:24 <Bike> probably i'll have to ask on the......... mailing list
03:19:14 <Bike> well i mean, i am sure how it's different. i don't know how to explain this. the methods are incredibly divergent
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03:20:39 <kmc> kind of tripping out on the idea that there's a kickstarter where the reward is an uploaded organism
03:21:33 <Bike> i wonder how 'uploaded' it is. the connectome is obviously stable but i wonder where they get membrane parameters
03:22:24 <kmc> you mean for an initial state of the nervous system?
03:23:22 <kmc> i wonder what happens when you simulate inputs that are physically impossible
03:23:34 <kmc> hallucinating, disembodied worms in your web browser
03:24:01 <kmc> I guess if they are disembodied then they are hallucinating by definition. in a manner of speaking
03:24:18 <Bike> "We have captured the full 3D morphology of the C. elegans connectome in NeuroML format, and we are currently working to integrate electro-physiology. " hm, so i guess they haven't yet
03:24:48 <Bike> includes the initial state and also the transitions, probably. membrane physics is hard :D
03:25:34 <Bike> was talking with my boss's old boss today and he said modern physics is insufficient to model cells in enough detail
03:28:09 <Bike> cytoplasm violates too many convenient assumptions~
03:29:21 <kmc> dang
03:29:47 <Bike> i mean, i don't know how particle physics is going, you could probably like, run the standard model
03:29:52 <Bike> "not very efficient"
03:30:36 <kmc> just need a quantum computer
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03:33:16 <Bike> let's see, one myosin molecule is probably, iunno, 50 kDa or some shit, so that's like a hundred thousand particles to simulate. and then a fibril's gonna have a few hundred of those
03:33:20 <Bike> imo sensible
03:36:47 <Bike> how well do quantum computers do at physics sims, anywho
03:45:25 <kmc> supposedly they are good for simulating quantum mechanics
03:46:29 <Bike> http://www.sciencemag.org/content/273/5278/1073.abstract good abstract
03:46:54 <Bike> son of a fuck i don't have Science access for 96? fuck
03:48:23 <Bike> http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF02650179 hm i'll have to read this later
03:48:38 <kmc> son of a fuck
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03:58:07 <adu> hi all
03:58:48 <adu> have any of you heard of Funge-98?
03:58:57 <kmc> yes
03:59:05 <myname> who hasn't
03:59:12 <adu> oh
03:59:12 <elliott> no
03:59:13 <kmc> i would ask fungot but he left :(
03:59:14 <adu> n/m
03:59:52 <adu> I admire Funge-98 for it's audacity to think outside the box :)
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04:04:40 <myname> well, most multidimensional languages do that
04:04:53 <kmc> think outside the box and inside the torus?
04:05:35 <adu> any programming language that requires topological reasoning is fine by me.
04:05:55 <kmc> oh, we're in french now? ♫ debout, les damnés de la terre ♫
04:06:05 <kmc> adu: you might like homotopy type theory
04:06:55 <fowl> adu, you sounded like a jehovas witness for befunge98 just then lol
04:07:17 <fowl> have you heard the good word of multidimensional programming?
04:08:04 <myname> as a matter of fact, we currently have a project for building a compiler for rail
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04:17:04 <adu> myname: what kind of rail?
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04:17:57 <myname> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Rail that kind
04:21:18 <adu> myname: hmm
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04:25:04 <Sgeo> "It works dammit! Leave me alone!
04:25:05 <Sgeo> causes heart bleed 2.0"
04:25:10 <Sgeo> "But that didn't work"
04:25:15 <Sgeo> "It did what it was supposed to, and it did some more as well."
04:25:32 <Sgeo> Also http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/24g6al/i_have_officially_failed_at_programming/ch76623
04:26:03 <kmc> we have arrived too late to play in the bleeding heart show
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04:36:59 <kmc> `coins
04:37:00 <HackEgo> brakoncoin miniuscoin jehintcoin codecoin twischedrungcoin boemiccoin scalcoin befalcoin bredcoin chocoin adderitcoin waker)coin minuocoin proof!coin hitecoin concrcoin wulgarthubicoin whiccoin mincocoin axocoin
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04:52:27 <myname> proof!coin
04:53:17 <Bike> darn, adu's gone, i was going to recommend Practical CS that needs topologishit
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05:04:27 <fizziev> The one day I'm switching ISPs is of course when someone comes in with the best excuse for fungot promotion.
05:05:21 <myname> i found it kinda cute
05:05:32 <myname> it is like "dude, did you hear about brainfuck????"
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07:03:26 <Bike> There are campaigns to get governments to use open-source software, aren't there?
07:03:57 <coppro> yes
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07:29:09 <Bike> i'm wondering cos i looked up a government program and it advises uninstalling IE8 in favor of IE7
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08:06:40 <b_jonas> Bike: ouch
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10:15:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39433 * Lucasieks * (+878) Created page with "==INTERPRETER== Especifications: J - invert the bit pointed L - invert the pointer Q - input and put in the pointer T - output the pointer Interpreter in c: int[] mem..."
10:16:24 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39434 * Lucasieks * (+25) Created page with "This need some additions."
10:17:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[If(j)invert()if(l)change()if(q)input()if(t)output(x);]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39435&oldid=39433 * Lucasieks * (+51) /* SAMPLES */
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10:21:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:Lucasieks]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39436&oldid=37889 * Lucasieks * (+2)
10:25:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Joke language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39437&oldid=39420 * Lucasieks * (+60)
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11:21:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbols]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39438&oldid=39429 * Lucasieks * (+13)
11:21:47 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Symbols]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39439&oldid=39438 * Lucasieks * (-1)
11:34:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[ND]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39440 * Lucasieks * (+196) Created page with "nD is a project to create one language for each dimension. ==1D== It is a line. ==2D== 2D space. ==3D== How to represent in a 2D space? ''This is a WIP, we need help to f..."
11:37:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39441 * Lucasieks * (+102) Created page with "<!-- PLEASE DONT EDIT HERE CLICK ON ADD TOPIC ABOVE --> ''Click on 'add topic' above to add an topic''"
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11:38:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39442&oldid=39441 * Lucasieks * (+17) /* new */ new section
11:39:05 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39443&oldid=39442 * Lucasieks * (-8) /* new */
11:41:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39444&oldid=39443 * Lucasieks * (+106) /* 1 */
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11:43:51 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39445&oldid=39444 * Lucasieks * (+89) /* 2D */ new section
11:44:08 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39446&oldid=39445 * Lucasieks * (-1)
11:45:59 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Talk:ND]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39447&oldid=39446 * Lucasieks * (+91) /* 3D */ new section
11:50:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Works in progress]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39448&oldid=38457 * Lucasieks * (+68)
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11:53:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tubes]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39449&oldid=17768 * Lucasieks * (+17)
11:57:26 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39450&oldid=37905 * Lucasieks * (+17)
11:58:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39451&oldid=39450 * Lucasieks * (+10)
12:19:22 <elliott> ...
12:28:12 <nooodl> good
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12:32:35 <Taneb> *yawn*
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14:38:18 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Main Page]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39452&oldid=39451 * Ehird * (-27) revert appearance-breaking change
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14:41:48 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User talk:Lucasieks]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39453&oldid=39431 * Ehird * (+1034) restore thread + comment
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14:54:41 <elliott> fizzie: http://esolangs.org/forum/forum/ should be http://esolangs.org/forum/
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15:03:00 <Bike> are you sure?
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15:05:02 <elliott> yes.
15:12:05 <Bike> /forum/ just links to /forum/forum/, though
15:17:27 <elliott> yes.
15:17:42 <elliott> it shouldn't
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16:07:10 <fizzie> It is a fixed.
16:07:15 <fizzie> I don't know how it ended up nested like that.
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17:38:26 <elliott> fizzie: prolly my fault
17:39:27 <fizzie> On the other hand, we bought a teapot.
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18:10:28 <int-e> You have: No tea.
18:19:45 <Slereah_> You could make a bong out of it
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18:20:06 <Bicyclidine> perhaps bonghits could help me make a bong out of it
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18:23:43 <fizzie> I'm not sure how bongable it is.
18:23:50 <fizzie> Though I guess you can make one out of just about anything.
18:24:39 <fizzie> This one was in the hotel room, and it looked nice and useful, and they had one for sale in the reception.
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18:25:59 <fizzie> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20140502-teapot.jpg
18:26:20 <fizzie> (There's the kind of a wire mesh tea-holder thing in the top hole.)
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19:55:41 <douglass_> you can boil water in that to reconstitute cup of noodle or such
19:56:01 <douglass_> since it appears to also be a kettle
19:58:03 <myname> https://twitter.com/michaeljhudson/status/462103006410858496/photo/1/large xD
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19:59:44 <kmc> is that a Microsoft product or just branded swag
19:59:55 <Bicyclidine> implications are painful
20:01:19 <olsner> nothing wrong with products having several uses
20:02:29 <myname> the question is: where do you get 4 spherical usb covers
20:02:30 <kmc> those exposed ports will be a problem though
20:02:37 <fizzie> It's iron, I don't know if it's really a kettle too.
20:02:43 <fizzie> I mean, officially.
20:03:28 <Bicyclidine> the ports is what i meant
20:03:51 <olsner> fizzie: you mean it's a purely decorational teapot?
20:03:55 <olsner> seems useless
20:04:21 <fizzie> No, I mean, I think the officially designated way is to pour hot water in it.
20:04:25 <myname> as far as i know, you can use them, but they are far from practical
20:04:40 <fizzie> Rather than putting it on a stove or some such.
20:04:48 <myname> those pots tend to get pretty hot
20:05:17 <fizzie> I guess since it doesn't seem to have any parts that are not cast iron, you could use a pole and put it on an open fire or something.
20:05:29 <kmc> the mixing of conversations here is amusincg
20:05:38 <fizzie> The handle didn't seem to get especially hot, anyway.
20:06:04 <myname> kmc: what mixing? :p
20:06:05 <fizzie> But the hotel had a regular whatchamacallit, water-boil-o-mater.
20:06:08 <kmc> anyway yes, things that go in your butt should not have exposed ports
20:06:15 <kmc> sex toys are the killer app for inductive charging
20:06:24 <myname> what
20:06:48 <kmc> what's unclear about that statement
20:07:36 <myname> i wouldn't say "unclear"
20:07:45 <olsner> hmm, I wonder if they could be inductively charged/powered while in use too, should be theoretically possible I guess
20:08:18 <olsner> otoh, cords are pretty great compared to uncharged batteries
20:08:56 <kmc> yeah
20:09:15 <kmc> not so much for insertable items though :P
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20:11:05 <douglass_> I've used a metal teapot like that and it was fine. Didn't boil the water in it but I don't see why that wouldn't work. Cast iron is actually a very poor conductor of heat (as metals go).
20:11:48 <olsner> I'd guess it's good enough to burn your hand
20:12:16 <kmc> there should be a version of the We-Vibe that's powered by the, er, natural mechanical action of using it
20:12:35 <Bicyclidine> m, like a self-winding watch, very useful
20:12:53 <Taneb> Hmm
20:12:54 <kmc> exactly
20:13:10 <douglass_> I didn't burn my hand on the handle, but it's not like using a potholder is terribly impractical.
20:13:17 <myname> as a more serious side note: i do think they should do that for smartphones
20:13:35 <olsner> would it charge fast enough?
20:14:24 <kmc> almost certainly not
20:14:36 <myname> probably not, but it could expend the time between charging
20:14:52 <Bicyclidine> presumably you'd use a thermal charger instead, for one
20:15:04 <myname> Bicyclidine: yeah
20:15:09 <myname> no reason to not do both
20:15:35 <Bicyclidine> i don't think phones touch the skin enough for a self-winder to be practical.
20:15:43 <Bicyclidine> as much as the idea of a phone with a mainspring amuses me
20:15:56 <myname> Bicyclidine: you never played ingress, do you?
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20:16:36 <Bicyclidine> an ARG? what are you, some kind of nerd?
20:16:56 <myname> totally
20:17:08 <myname> AR is best R
20:17:56 <olsner> is it like more real than reality?
20:18:10 <myname> even more than that!
20:18:26 <myname> also: if you don't dislike anime, watch dennou coil
20:21:06 <Bicyclidine> https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3683374135/c637bfc5e4055c9d3a6d007aa1297b24_400x400.jpeg no, i am the big anime fan
20:22:27 <kmc> can't find a teardown to get the battery capacity :/
20:47:30 <olsner> fungot: play the oboe
20:47:30 <fungot> olsner: bloody hell. i totally missed it. :)
21:15:07 <Taneb> Oh dear god, the guy who played Anakin in Episode I of Star Wars is 5 years older than me
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21:16:11 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Powerlist]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=39454 * CodingBat * (+19915) Created the article
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21:59:07 <Bike> so, for ssl stuff, explicit_bzero is a function that the compiler refuses to optimize out, right? would a regular bzero be optimized out if, like, the variable goes out of scope after the call?
22:00:04 <nortti> most probably yes
22:00:38 <nortti> depends on the smartness of the compiler but smart enough one would
22:01:30 <elliott> Bike: explicit_bzero is openbsd-specific
22:01:35 <elliott> jfyi
22:01:49 <Bike> well yes, but the idea of it, which ssl had independently of bsd for instance
22:02:28 <olsner> so is that a real problem that everyone else ignores or are the bsd people just a bit crazy?
22:02:55 <elliott> the BSD people aren't the only ones who do it, I don't think.
22:04:15 <Bike> kqueue.org/blog/2012/03/05/memory-allocator-security-revisited/ right, so C is impossible
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22:05:36 <olsner> hmm, nicely broken page, everything except the quoted code is blank
22:07:22 <fizzie> I had to reload it for that to go away.
22:08:08 <olsner> yeah that worked for me too
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22:11:42 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Powerlist]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=39455&oldid=39454 * CodingBat * (+1487) Added categories and a proof of Turing-completeness
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22:52:44 <boily> @massages-loud
22:52:44 <lambdabot> You don't have any messages
22:54:34 <Taneb> o.o
22:54:46 <Taneb> ^celebrate
22:54:46 <fungot> \o| c.c \o/ ಠ_ಠ \m/ \m/ \o_ c.c _o/ \m/ \m/ ಠ_ಠ \o/ c.c |o/
22:54:46 <myndzi> | c.c.c | ¯|¯⌠ `\o/´ | c.c.c | `\o/´ ¯|¯⌠ | c.c.c |
22:54:46 <myndzi> /´\ c.c /< >\| | /`\ c.c /< | |\| >\ c.c /<
22:54:47 <myndzi> /´¯|_) /´\
22:54:47 <myndzi> (_| (_| |_)
22:55:34 <boily> Tanelle.
22:55:52 <boily> (strangely, you're still the only one I address in the vocative case.)
22:56:01 <Taneb> goodbyely
22:56:06 <Taneb> (I need to get some sleep)
22:56:40 <Taneb> I wonder if myndzi works on PM
22:57:12 <Taneb> Doesn't seem like it :(
22:57:36 <boily> myndzi: please correct this outrageous and egregious bug asap twh kthxbye.
23:01:39 <Taneb> boily, have fun in Canadaland or wherever the hell you are
23:01:43 <Taneb> I'm off to bed
23:06:52 <boily> @tell Taneb I always am at Canada, modulo some rare lapses spent on other continents.
23:06:53 <lambdabot> Consider it noted.
23:16:43 <Sprocklem> boily: Never go to the US
23:16:47 <Sprocklem> ?
23:17:12 <boily> hm?
23:17:29 <boily> I already went to the US. multiple times. on my own volition.
23:17:40 <Sprocklem> boily: "I always am at Canada ... other continents."
23:18:09 <Sprocklem> boily: Canada's a country, not a continent
23:18:29 <kmc> good to know
23:18:39 <boily> I only transit through the US. except when I was younger and we family-vacationed on the East Coast.
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23:44:05 <kmc> where on the east coast?
23:48:16 <boily> Connecticut, Massachusetts, New York, Boston, Washington DC., Baltimore (nice aquarium by the way). Michigan too, but that's not quite eastcoastian.
23:48:27 <kmc> never saw the b'more aquarium
23:48:38 <kmc> boston has a pretty good one, but the best part was closed when I went :/
23:48:54 <boily> there's an aquarium in boston and nobody told me? aaaaargh!
23:49:01 <kmc> sorry
23:49:30 <boily> I like aquariums. they have interesting floating things that move.
23:49:35 <kmc> yes
23:49:38 <kmc> osaka has a nice one
23:49:49 <boily> I went to the ōsaka one :D
23:49:55 <kmc> cool
23:50:46 <kmc> the monterey bay aquarium is supposed to be one of the best, and it's not too far from where I live
23:50:49 <kmc> I could bike there in two days
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23:52:38 <boily> you are tempting me with scenic places.
23:53:10 <lexande> boily: clearly there's an aquarium in boston, since it has a subway station named after it
23:55:09 <boily> I don't think I ever used Boston's subway.
23:57:03 <boily> but according to the plan, I can get from Honoré-Beaugrand over to Lechmere through the Green Line Extension to Canada.
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