00:11:01 -!- edwardk has joined. 00:12:07 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 01:07:13 -!- FossilCodger has joined. 01:08:09 Hi, somebody, there is anybody available? (Excuse me for the bad Englis...) 01:08:35 sup 01:09:25 Hello Bike! 01:10:44 I joined to this IRC, just because I would like to announce, that I created a new programming language, named "mau". 01:11:55 you should write an article for it on the wiki, probably. we get notices of wiki edits here. 01:12:01 The novatime newest, 15th release downloadable at this link: http://parancssor.info/mau/mau15release.tar.bz2 01:12:31 well we would, if HackEgo wasn't abducted by evil scientists 01:13:28 Okay, just my biggest problem that I have very low english knowledge! I understand enough good the written english documentation, but my knowledge sure not enough good to written articles.. 01:14:11 And my language is not the English, but the Hungarian. The documentation of my "mau" interpreter language is more as 200 pages in odt format. 01:14:33 you might be better off converting it to pdf or something 01:14:52 but, you may as well make a page. then people can proofread it and such 01:14:58 your english seems pretty good to me 01:15:27 you should make a page on the esolang wiki -> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page 01:15:36 This language very usable for serious, daily scripting work, I use it daily, under 64 bits Linux operating system, but in the above download link available the source code, and can compile it for 32 bits systems too. 01:15:50 we just need to gently persuade b_jonas to translate it, should be easy -----### 01:16:27 so what's esoteric about it 01:16:38 wow, these example programs are pretty great. 01:17:11 is … actually part of the syntax? :D 01:18:27 ah yes. seeing the esotericism 01:18:59 Hi, friends, the parancssor.info is my own domain. The hungarian word "parancssor" mean in English: "commandline". 01:19:32 In this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?board=20.0 is more topic with USABLE, usefull mau programs! 01:21:07 And in the downloadable package you can find more example programs, for ekzample the "vidir" programs in mau language! 01:21:33 The original vidir written in Perl, but I created it in mau too. 01:23:01 An example for a cycle in mau: {| 26 ?c #s@s[[{|}]][#c@k]; /; |} 01:25:03 The above example is a cycle, which run 26 times, and print a character in every first string from the @s stringarray. It print from every string the character which has the index in the @k unsigned char variable. 01:27:41 here are an example program whit english comments, excuse me for the bad grammar: 01:27:43 !mau // maudir program. // Author: Viola Zoltán, violazoli@gmail.com // This program created in the programming language named "mau". That programming language created by I, Viola Zoltán, too. // Licence GPL, boot. // Constans: #s@P="/tmp"; // Path for the temporary file for the editing with the text editor in the $EDITOR environment variable #c@c='-; // character for the empty spaces of pidstring #c@p=6; // max length of th 01:28:07 Hm, not successed... too long for the IRC... 01:31:16 Okay, now I created to my forum an english section, and now already available in them the first mau example program - the vidir in mau language - with english comments! The link to this subforum: http://parancssor.info/forum/index.php?topic=121.0 01:31:39 do you have a page describing the language in english? 01:33:32 @madbr: sorry, not, because I not have enough good english! As I wrote above, I created now a subforum, and in that now available a long example, but I cannot translate the full >200 page documentation... 01:33:32 Unknown command, try @list 01:36:22 right, 200 pages is kinda long 01:36:38 but it might be cool to have just some kind of broad intro 01:37:24 If would be lot of peoples having interest to the mau language, of course I try translate the cheaf parts of the syntax, usability, other needed knowledge, but it will very bad in the English grammar, therefore I need somebody to correct my bad english text! 01:39:29 it should be good practice for getting better at that :D 01:39:45 This language support all types of the C, - signed/unsigned char/int/longint, float, double, long double, string, and other string designed for UTF-8 encoded characters, arrays... 01:40:53 what's its design goal? 01:40:57 -!- nooodl_ has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 01:41:16 It has lot of variants for cycles, switch, it can handle bitfields... 01:41:32 The slogan: "The programming language with efficient line noise" 01:41:35 cycles? 01:42:00 cycles, as ekzample "for" in the "c". 01:42:05 oh, loops :D 01:42:40 Just in the mau it is not named "for", but {| or {( or other symbol variants. 01:43:14 Oh, yes, eh, English... Yes, LOOPS, f*ck my crazy mind... 01:43:40 Yes, my english knowledge is under the ass... 01:45:59 is it a bit like APL? 01:46:55 If somebody ready to correct my bad Enlglish, I translate the documentation. In this case, send me email to this: violazoli at gmail point com. 01:47:12 I dont know APL. 01:48:04 My goal, that I have my own programming language, because I have like and interest to creating it, and that this language is a strictly type language. 01:48:05 apl is famous for using a bunch of rare hard to type characters, and having lots of special operators (for doing operations on arrays) 01:48:38 In every function strictly, which variable type usable. 01:49:09 Not as in the Bash or other common scripting language. My casting operator is the "#". 01:51:12 so it's easy to do very compact programs in apl because the operators will do whole loops for you 01:51:27 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 01:53:29 -!- hogeyui_ has quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds). 01:53:49 #c = unsigned char 01:53:56 #C = signed char 01:54:04 #i = unsigned short int 01:54:12 #I = signed short int 01:54:18 #l = unsigned int 01:54:24 #L = signed int 01:54:34 #g = unsigned long long 01:54:41 #G = signed long long 01:54:45 #f = float 01:54:49 #d = double 01:54:56 #D = long double 01:55:00 #s = string 01:55:15 #u = UTF-8 encoded char 01:55:18 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Good night). 01:55:35 #U = string from UTF-8 encoded chars 01:55:56 do you have structs or objects? 01:57:09 Not yet, but planning. I will enlarge my language to OOP. But not now, because first I create my own regexp implementation. This will usefull and necessary to the objectorientad parts... 01:57:40 But mau has function, and every function has own namespace. 01:58:12 it has functions? but can you store a whole function inside a variable? 01:59:06 And the mau has built-in "variables" for the directory structure, and inputfiles, outputfiles, stacks... 01:59:35 does it have arrays? 01:59:35 -!- hogeyui_ has joined. 02:00:34 excuse me I dont understand your question. Of course, variables can handle only datas. But in a #l type variable you can put a label of a function! 02:00:56 In the mau, almost every things can to be indirect. 02:02:23 For example, you has a subrutine labeled with §in. Now, yo type: #g@c=§in; And later: »#g@c; this is a jump to the label which are in the #g@c variable. Indirect jumping. 02:02:59 madbr means "array" as in "int x[5] = ..." in C 02:03:15 Yes, arrays available in the mau. All single type has its arrays too. For ekzample: 02:03:32 #c@c - this is a single variable, unsigned char. 02:04:01 #c@c[index] - this is an array of unsigned chars. 02:04:20 mhm 02:04:29 #s@s="This is a single string variable constans"; 02:04:31 and can you change the size of arrays once they are created? 02:05:13 #s@s[[arrayindex]][stringindex] - this is a character of a string from a stringarray. 02:07:12 After creation of the stringarray, the size not changeable yet, but if the mau community would like this possibility, I built it, no problem... :) 02:07:36 But the strings automatically grow up if necessary. For ekzample: 02:09:22 #s@a="string"; This string is from 6 characters. Now you do: #s@a[8]=g; You now probed giving the "g" character to the 8th place of the string. This place momently no exist, but this is no problem, the string grow up to the 8th characters. 02:09:36 What fills the void? 02:11:17 "but can you store a whole function inside a variable?" -> some languages let you do that 02:11:30 you can more or less create whole new functions real time 02:11:57 In the mau available 2 string types. The "common" has the #s casting operator. In the above case, the void places imply random memory trash. But the second string type, whith the #U casting operator - this is designed for the UTF-8 encoded characters - strictly fill up the void places with spaces. 02:14:39 I already use the mau daily, because I use my LFS-based Linux with the DWM window manager, and I wrote/created my statusbar program in the mau. And the menu program for the DWM, exist in mau too. And my gmail watcher program is written in mau, too. And my english-hungarian dictionary too... 02:15:41 And my own colored listener program in place of the "ls", written in mau, too. And the "vidir" clone in mau, too. 02:18:52 And the mau has built-in QuickSort routine/function. 02:20:14 The mau also PLUGINABLE! The (sorry, hungarian language...) documentation has fully knowledgebase chapter about, how can you write plugins to the mau interpreter in C/C++ language! 02:20:29 practical 02:21:02 probably the only esoteric language to have that, ever :D 02:21:09 With this methode, you can see the mau as only a skeleton to a fully-featured interpreter language, and to them you can create your OWN programming language! 02:21:56 Of course, all/every built-in mau command/function REWRITABLE, you can redefine its token with your plugins! 02:23:38 -!- tswett has joined. 02:23:42 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 02:23:43 -!- tswett has joined. 02:24:05 Excuse me, I hope that I am no a smart alec too, but I think, that in the esoteric-group of the existing programming language, the mau is the GOD, because this is a VERY USABLE language! 02:24:36 esoteric languages are rarely designed for usability 02:25:35 For example the brainfuck? 02:25:58 yes, the brainfuck's design goal was as small a compiler as possible. 02:26:03 Otherwise I tell you, that the mau has built-in brainfuck-interpreter too... 02:26:42 many are designed for pure mindfuck power, to expand your mind on what can be a computer language 02:27:02 Brainfuck is interest, yes. But Not usable for the daily work. I like it, but not usable for a fast scripting work. The mau yes. 02:27:29 my favorite in this "mind expanding" category is unlambda: http://esolangs.org/wiki/unlambda 02:28:57 Okay, but my goal was not the mind expanding. I am a novelist. And for my sci-fi stories needed a new programming language. I created it. And, I planned it that it should be an usable tool for my daily linux work too. 02:29:42 The numeric constans in the mau: 02:29:54 begin 0-9: decimal constans 02:30:06 begin with o or O: octal constans 02:30:30 begin with $: hexadecimal, for ekzample #fc or $FCe2 02:30:50 As long as 0 isn't used as the octal indicator I'm happy. 02:30:54 begin with %: binary constans. %10111011101 02:30:57 tw 02:31:07 yeah does anyone still use octal? 02:31:16 madbr: yes 02:31:23 chmod 644 02:31:24 yes. numbers starting with 0 being octal is obnoxious, is all. 02:31:29 oh yeah chmod 02:31:53 abcd....xABCD...X: an unsigned character, the ASCII code of the character. 02:31:56 yeah starting with 0 producing octal is like... automatic non-obvious bugs 02:32:04 FossilCodger: not unicode? 02:32:13 ??? 02:32:48 you said "ASCII code". 02:32:59 The unicode sequences is multibytes. 02:33:07 Ok. 02:33:13 Ah, I already understand your question! 02:34:05 #c@c=a; - in this case you give the ASCII code of "a" to the unsigned char variable named @c. 02:35:25 #u@a="ω"; - in this case you give to the UTF-8 character variable named @a, the byte sequences of the UTF-8 encoded multibyte character ω. 02:35:27  02:36:23 Why was I able to copy/paste an image? 02:36:31 Since when does img's alt do that? 02:37:02 that is a square 02:37:05 well, rectangle 02:37:10 I cannot give to you answer, I am newbie in the IRC. 02:37:54 This can to be a function name in the mau: 02:37:55 „ཨོཾ་མ་ཎི་པདྨེ་ཧཱུྃ” // Om Ma Ni Pe Me Hung 02:38:23 As you can see, the function names can has any UTF-8 encoded characters. 02:38:34 Bike: that is a vulcan hand salute 02:38:47 vulcans have weird hands. 02:40:02 Function names should give between the „ and ” symbols. 02:40:15 http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/28czh2/announcing_unicode_70/ 02:40:33 For ekzample, a function named with the Sarasvati hindu godness, mahadevi: 02:40:33 „सरस्वती” 02:41:33 Or, a function, named (dedicated) the Loved One singerin, the hebrew Ofra Haza: 02:41:35 „עפרה חזה” // Ofra Haza függvénye 02:41:51 They all are valid function names in the mau. 02:41:56 U+F809324230B034C43DA9123880EE8034588A8340994858CFD841351: BEAR JUGGLING SIX DIFFERENTLY-SIZED MELONS WHILE WEARING BEANIE WITH LOPSIDED PROPELLER 02:44:00 Ok Chrome, you obviously have a font that supports PILE OF POO because that's exactly what I see in my address bar right now 02:44:35 Levitating man... superfluous. The Unicode implement all useless shit. 02:47:24 First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. 02:48:31 i thought the point of utf-8 was not fixing a length. 02:49:13 < FossilCodger> First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode 02:49:17 bah 02:49:28 `addquote First I think that in the mau the UTF-8 strings encoding all characters only with 4 bytes. But in the end, I planned it to 6 bytes, the originally plan of the UTF-8, because I think, the Unicode committee is untrustly, the 4 bytes will not enough lot, because I see the all superfluous trash will implemented to the unicode. 02:49:50 UTF-8 is novatimes max 4 bytes, but in the first time it was 6 bytes planned. 02:50:24 The UTF-8 structure can expandable to maximum 8 bytes, as I know. 02:50:54 I think "novatimes" should be adopted as an actual english word. 02:51:17 what's it mean, i can't tell 02:51:20 "now"? 02:51:25 sounds like a medicine brand 02:51:34 In this times. 02:52:28 "these days"? 02:53:11 novatimes=nowadays, recently 02:53:41 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 02:54:32 The mau can special variables for the benchmarks, too. 02:54:35 it's a good word. 02:54:50 where did we find this guy? 02:55:02 they came in a few hours ago to talk about t heir esolang. 02:55:18 just logged on and started talking yes 02:55:32 I am here yet. 02:56:19 Just I have lot of difficulity in the English, I am sorry & excuse me. 02:56:51 no problem 02:58:41 And the mau has the "test" function of the bash, too. 02:58:54 And the mau can handle streams, too. 02:59:41 For ekzample, you can open a file in the memory (RAM), you write to them the records, and if finish, you handle the memory area as a string... 03:01:06 This mau command: ||| #s@a t; cut the @a string to parts into the string-array named "t". 03:01:51 (This is akin function to the "tr"...) 03:04:53 Hi, guys, has the esolangs community an own forum? 03:06:03 Because if not, I welcome open in my forum a part for the eso languages. This domain paid for the next 5 years already... 03:07:17 it used to have a forum. now we just use the wiki 03:09:29 Okay Elliot, then, if you think that this is a good idea, write to the wiki please, that the official forum of the esolangs is in the parancssor.info/forum/... - to the "..." I write the name what you would like, and open that subforum now! 03:13:21 The heck...? http://www.reddit.com/r/Python/comments/28ffsc/world_cup_json_rails_backend_for_a_scraper_that/ 03:13:28 Why was that posted to /r/Python 03:29:22 Goodbye, I logout! 03:30:00 -!- FossilCodger has quit (Quit: Page closed). 03:30:24 Apparently Go uses global variables a bunch by default 03:30:31 And was just told 'you don't have to use them' 03:37:01 (And possibly most don't use the default global variables, but it's still concerning) 03:52:03 -!- zzo38 has joined. 03:56:34 Hmm 03:56:46 what's the cool thing to put in a fungeroid 03:57:35 It's going to be hard to have a "write to program/read from program at X/Y" instruction tho 03:58:18 unless it takes a line number for Y and a string for X 03:58:52 Do you know how 16-bit samples are stored in a .XM music? 04:00:55 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 04:03:04 I haven't read the specs for XM 04:03:33 for s3m and IT there's a table of pointers to sample headers in the file header 04:04:17 I can't remember what IT does from there but for s3m this header contains a pointer to the sample data 04:04:40 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:06:13 can't remember if the sample data was unsigned or signed but I think it's the reverse from the usual 04:06:36 (and might be different between 8 and 16 bits) 04:14:22 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 04:15:51 The specs for XM do have a few things missing actually but I have been able to fill in those missing things. Someone else already made a version with many mistakes corrected, but still has a few mistakes. I know where samples are stored, but not the format of 16-bit samples. 04:16:05 8-bit samples in XM are encoded as delta values. 04:25:00 -!- Bike has joined. 04:33:01 I am trying to extend AmigaMML with such feature. 04:35:09 I also want to add a percussion synthesizer; do you have advice how to do such a things? 04:36:23 depends how realistic you want it to be 04:36:59 and what hardware you're targetting 04:38:06 drums are essentially a large impulse + some noise going through a whole bunch of bandpass filters (like 40 bandpass filters in parallel) 04:38:18 I don't really care much to be realistic but want it good quality nevertheless. 04:39:09 kick can be done with essentially a wave going down in pitch fast 04:40:13 hihat is a mess of high frequencies... on an FM synth you can do them by setting osc frequencies super high and playing some ridiculously high note and letting it create some frequency mess due to aliasing... but this doesn't work on non-fm synths 04:40:26 failing that, just some noise isn't bad 04:41:24 snare is kinda touchy, it needs some lower frequency thump (essentially low frequency noice) BEFORE the high frequency SHHH from the snares 04:42:02 they cannot happen at the same time, it's thump THEN the Shhhh part 04:42:35 on C64 they do this by using one channel and alternating it between a wave (usually square) and noise 04:42:48 so it's kindof a tone sequencer 04:42:52 OK, although FM synthesis is actually also one of the synthesizers I intend to add. The two I have already implemented are simple waveforms (a sum of square waves (adjustable duty), saw, and triangle), and PADsynth (full the amplitude table with a sum of bell curves, the phase table with random values, and then perform an inverse Fourier transform), and the two I plan to add are FM synth and percussion synth. 04:43:31 It can already load external samples, but I also want to allow the .MML text file to be able to stand alone. 04:43:34 this page has some more ideas: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Feb02/articles/synthsecrets0202.asp 04:43:44 OK 04:44:21 essentially every drum is its own special snowflake 04:51:05 -!- madbr has quit (Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda!). 04:51:30 can't hear their shapes 05:03:57 -!- tswett has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:16:53 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 05:35:24 -!- tertu has joined. 06:06:48 I wonder if Go's defer has any advantages over Haskell solutions to similar problems 06:07:04 I guess it's more explicit that something will be closed, rather than being implied by the usage 06:11:41 I have once used the (just) overtone scale in writing music. 06:19:49 -!- variable has quit (*.net *.split). 06:19:49 -!- heroux has quit (*.net *.split). 06:23:48 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:23:52 -!- variable has joined. 06:23:52 -!- heroux has joined. 06:24:14 -!- variable has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 06:26:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:27:42 -!- variable has joined. 06:27:59 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:29:53 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 06:31:40 -!- conehead has joined. 06:52:16 -!- irenge has joined. 06:53:57 -!- tertu has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 07:11:14 -!- nooodl has joined. 07:19:26 And in today's issue of things that would not be necessary if Go had generics: https://github.com/justinas/alice 07:24:39 looks a lot like (.) 07:28:26 It petty much is, except iiuc you can't really write a typesafe (.) 07:29:44 "Matt Silverlock's use.go snippet came closest to what I wanted. My only complaint is that the ordering of handlers here is counter-intuitive. Reading the chaining code makes it obvious that 07:29:47 use(myApp, csrf, logging, recovery) 07:29:50 is equivalent to this code: 07:29:53 recovery(logging(csrf(myApp))) 07:29:55 and this request cycle: 07:29:58 recovery -> logging -> csrf -> myApp 07:30:00 So, a reversed order from what you've written in your code." 07:30:03 haha, the opposite complaint people make about (.) 07:40:43 -!- password2 has joined. 08:25:23 -!- irenge has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 08:34:47 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:37:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Disconnected by services). 08:37:46 -!- Patashu_ has joined. 08:42:20 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: impomatic). 09:03:56 -!- password2 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 09:20:37 -!- password2 has joined. 09:21:59 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 09:34:21 -!- impomatic has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 29.0.1/20140506152807]). 09:34:40 -!- impomatic has joined. 09:36:08 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 10:01:47 -!- brandonsons|2 has joined. 10:05:55 -!- brandonsons has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 10:12:26 Help I am being attacked by imposter syndrome 10:14:34 -!- boily has joined. 10:16:04 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:18:41 Did you mean: Help, I have imposter syndrome. 10:18:48 If so, please press 1. 10:18:51 If not, please press 2. 10:19:08 4 10:19:15 1 probably 10:19:18 To ask for information about how much this call costs, press 3. 10:19:24 To donate 1 Mio. dollar press 4. 10:19:45 To donate using what account? 10:20:18 Got 90% on a programming theory exam and I don't feel like I deserve it when one of my friends failed it 10:20:22 Push 0 (OPER) 10:20:26 It will be charged to your IRC bill 10:20:39 Hang on, he didn't fail it 10:20:46 Well, that makes me feel better :) 10:21:10 Why should you don't feel like you deserve it if one of your friends failed it? 10:21:45 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 10:21:58 zzo38, because I think he's a better programmer than I am 10:22:17 Maybe you're mistaken about his skills then. 10:22:21 Or he had a bad day. 10:22:53 Taneb: Did you cheat on the test? 10:23:10 Taneb: O, OK. Well, but it might not necessarily have to do with the exam. 10:23:18 /w/w 6 10:23:20 hrf 10:23:32 I think people who cheat on tests don't deserve to pass them. 10:24:05 mroman, I did not cheat on the test 10:24:27 If I had I would have got more than 90%, or I would have thought 90% was high enough to be suspicious and got less than 90% 10:24:43 -!- nooodl has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 10:25:10 You'd care about your mark being suspicious if you cheat to good? 10:25:34 Even if it's susicious. If they can't prove it, they can't get you ;P 10:25:38 *suspicious 10:25:43 *too 10:26:24 Well, if it's not suspicious they won't look so hard 10:26:41 What would they look at? 10:26:45 You already wrote the test? 10:27:13 I don't know 10:27:18 I am not clever enough to cheat 10:27:19 They can't do anything once you've left the exam room I think 10:27:37 I guess I'd be clever enough 10:27:46 but it'd be a nervous wreck the whole exam 10:27:58 My body would literally be shaking if I were to cheat 10:28:54 I have only twice tried to cheat on a test. In one case it was on paper, and I tried to use a "coughing code" to tell everyone else in the room, the answers. Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew (and the teacher ask if I needed some water to drink). The other is on computer; once I reached the final question I tried to cheat off of the person next to me, who as it turned out was trying to cheat off of me 10:29:39 You seem to have pretty poor luck at cheating 10:30:18 I'm too scared to cheat :( 10:30:44 In the first case I described, I didn't really do it to cheat, but because I wanted to figure out if it is possible and what the reactions are! 10:38:12 i never did my homework, so i said "x equals 5", it was in 90% of all cases acceptable by my math teacher 10:38:37 we had to say the results 10:40:03 the way university maths questions are marked is: 10:40:20 - look at the start, see if it makes sense 10:40:28 - look at the end, see if the result is correct 10:40:43 - assume the middle is sound and award full marks 10:48:51 Phantom_Hoover: http://www.xkcd.com/759/ 10:49:11 whose title text is "Handy exam trick: when you know the answer but not the correct derivation, derive blindly forward from the givens and backward from the answer, and join the chains once the equations start looking similar. Sometimes the graders don't notice the seam." 10:50:37 Especially on multiple-choice tests I did sometimes work backward from the answer. 10:55:26 zzo38: http://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/602-Test-Time.html 11:03:14 -!- boily has quit (Quit: *fwomp*). 11:04:02 Phantom_Hoover: I'm kinda counting on that :) 11:04:18 although our math lecturer does a better job than that 11:04:22 My result was correct 11:04:51 but he said I made an assumption that just coincidentally lead me to the correct result 11:04:51 and thus, it's wrong :) 11:06:49 Yes I have done this kind of "short-circuit" test 11:09:56 Stuff written on that article is good 11:10:49 How can an exam be racially biased o_O 11:10:58 Did they ask questions only white people can answer 11:14:22 -!- jj2baile has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:14:33 but yeah 11:14:41 short-circuiting 11:14:48 I thought everybody does that too anyway 11:15:13 -!- coppro has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 11:15:53 There are even questions where you can say "Well, I don't know the exact answer, but I know it can't be B,C,D so the only option left is A anyway) 11:16:25 -!- jj2baile has joined. 11:16:43 -!- coppro has joined. 11:17:26 mroman, my multiple choice exams have all had E) None of the above :( 11:18:39 If I were a teacher I'd do that too 11:19:07 And like 3 questions were E! 11:19:31 also F) I don't know 11:19:34 and punish mistakes ;) 11:19:57 which makes multiple choice questions actually harder 11:20:02 although everybode seems to think they are easier 11:20:12 not only don't you get the point for the question 11:20:15 you also LOOSE one 11:20:28 so not knowing an answer correctly costs you two points instead of just one 11:21:17 I'd rather it's not a multiple choice question and just loose a single point for not knowing it correctly 11:21:28 sometimes dereferencing syntax in C++ or perl reminds me to the intercal rabbit ear syntax 11:22:32 Taneb: A funny variation is actually 11:22:37 "How many options are correct?" 11:23:19 Instead of marking the correct options you just have to write how many of them are correct 11:23:55 A) 1 B) 2 C) 3 or less D) all of the above 11:33:09 lol 11:33:15 so if A,B are true 11:33:17 C must be too 11:33:27 and i C is true 11:33:31 and A B 11:33:32 then B too 11:33:40 *D 11:39:16 to be more precise, I meant: A) exactly 1, B) exactly 2, C) 3 or less, D) all of the above 11:40:27 E) 31604,10001,714,108 11:40:48 but 11:40:52 1 is 3 or less 11:41:17 and the question is "how many options are correct?" 11:41:33 so? 11:41:34 and the desired outcome is that there is no consistent set of answers. 11:41:41 ah 11:45:32 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 12:07:30 -!- yorick has joined. 12:09:06 -!- Guest767 has changed nick to Gregor. 12:10:59 -!- oerjan has joined. 12:17:00 Is this much good so far? http://esolangs.org/wiki/Gentzen#Typeclass_definition_syntax 12:28:34 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 12:28:46 -!- Patashu has joined. 13:03:01 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 13:05:16 -!- lollo64it has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 13:05:41 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 13:18:50 [...] Since I have not told anyone about this ahead of time, I don't think anyone knew [...] <-- i'm going to guess that anyone intelligent enough to guess you were doing a code and figuring it out didn't need your help anyway. 13:30:12 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 13:30:25 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 14:32:21 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: leaving). 14:34:04 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 14:36:03 -!- mihow has joined. 14:48:17 -!- tswett has joined. 14:48:17 -!- tswett has quit (Changing host). 14:48:17 -!- tswett has joined. 14:50:38 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 14:57:50 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:59:18 There doesn't appear to be a JavaScript Unix password cracker anywhere :-( 14:59:33 -!- Bike has joined. 15:01:47 Running John the Ripper... 15:01:50 gcry:BbDSwh.NQHGj6:1004:102:Cray Analyst:/u/gcry:/bin/sh 15:12:42 Why would you do javascript? 15:12:49 You need speed for password cracking 15:18:23 -!- edwardk has joined. 15:18:29 But JavaScript has 2× the performance of native applications. http://fratti.ch/2webscale4u/ 15:20:35 -!- edwardk has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 15:28:00 EgoBot should have a cracker 15:30:24 `crack cray:1zd8eAacKa9J6:101:17:Cray:/usr/cray: 15:31:54 EgoBot should have a person of Caucasian descent 15:36:49 -!- edwardk has joined. 16:02:41 -!- lollo64it has joined. 16:19:01 I don't accept the premisse that anything that is interpreted can possibly run faster than native code 16:19:18 I also don't acept the premisse that anything executed on a vm can possibly run faster than native code 16:20:03 unless 16:20:07 does 2x the speed mean 16:20:19 if native takes 2s then it takes 4s? 16:21:32 mroman, an amazing interpreter can beat native code generated by a crap compiler 16:21:46 Yeah 16:21:53 but nobody said anything about that 16:21:59 it runs twice as fast as native code 16:22:11 What was that said about? 16:22:52 being faster than native code means for me, that you are faster than the CPU can execute code 16:25:01 but anyway 16:25:12 Just look at that webscalability 16:25:14 that's just wow 16:26:05 hu 16:26:30 that webpage has apparentely been seized by some federal agency of some country . 16:31:34 I should do a mockup. 16:34:00 Argh, css shadows on body text :-( 16:35:05 shady characters 16:52:22 http://mroman.ch/ngbl/ 17:02:40 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:20:33 -!- tswett has quit (Quit: tswett). 17:38:15 -!- password2 has joined. 17:44:15 hm 17:44:20 i should probably replace : with IS 17:55:25 there we go 17:55:43 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 17:59:54 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:01:33 Now with EXISTS, IS and ASSIGNED_TO 18:01:55 Some of these passwords are cracking really easily. service -> smile : shutdown -> bedtime and a few user passwords like mary, tricia, etc. 18:03:35 Poor passwords, considering the password file is from a Ministry of Defence machine :-) They should know better. 18:06:44 I hope that's not your job and your bragging about it on the IRC 18:06:50 *you're 18:07:19 oh wait 18:07:22 not bragging 18:07:32 what's plaudern in english 18:08:00 s/bragging/chatting 18:09:35 -!- conehead has joined. 18:10:08 chatting 18:10:27 There's no "bragging" connotation that I'm aware of. 18:10:43 sorry 18:10:53 Yeah 18:10:59 I know that bragging is the wrong word 18:11:01 I should stop replying to the last thing said without reading context. 18:11:11 int-e: Don't worry 18:11:16 I tend to do that a lot too :D 18:11:37 tltr 18:11:39 too lazy to read 18:11:51 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to fcrawl. 18:15:15 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 18:15:34 mroman: no, don't work for the MoD. Bought an ex-MOD computer which hasn't been wiped and trying to find the root password so I can use it properly. 18:17:01 That... what? When's this thing from? 18:17:38 Yes, I'd like to have root access to your long range missiles. 18:19:00 either that or a little house in some neat state . 18:19:06 :D 18:19:41 Wyoming sounds nice 18:21:22 Bought about a dozen ex MoD computers a few years ago. I've only just got this one back. (It's too big, so I had to put it in storage for a while until I got the garage converted into an office) 18:21:48 they are pretty old I assume? 18:21:52 1990? 18:21:56 or pre 90? 18:22:04 i'm just surprised they don't wipe everything as a matter of policy 18:22:16 Yeah 18:22:19 It's easy to do 18:22:26 even little companies do that 18:23:08 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 18:23:21 you're assuming the military is more competent than the average company 18:23:28 well 18:23:30 .... 18:23:32 yeah? 18:23:42 mroman aren't you american 18:23:46 that's what a normal non-us-citizen like me would think 18:23:49 mroman is swiss right 18:23:52 oh darn 18:24:06 did you know that america is the only country in the world where things are bad 18:24:14 although I suspect it's not much more secure here ;) 18:24:32 elliott: i was just asking cos i'd give the example of http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/jun/17/usa.oliverburkeman1 18:24:33 elliott: I've heard something like that 18:24:52 did I just commit some kind of poe's law of smoke europeanism 18:25:00 ... 18:25:01 smug. 18:25:07 I don't know how I got "smoke" out of that. 18:25:21 smoke europeanism everyday 18:25:22 anyway, i would have expected the military to do something else if they don't follow basic security, like for example, just explode them 18:25:34 or dump them in the ocean, a la http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_CHASE 18:26:19 US nuclear weapons found out to actually just be old fireworks in fancy containers 18:29:28 i was explaining fission bombs yesterday and it was kind of awkward having to say that it basically boils down to hitting plutonium really hard 18:38:27 -!- tromp has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 18:38:53 -!- tromp has joined. 18:47:15 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 18:49:40 mroman: they range from mid 80's to mid 90's. They range from a BBC Micro with some kind of 32-bit co-processor to an 8 processor Cray. 18:51:09 The place I bought them had an entire warehouse of various computers / minis / mainframes. I wish I could've bought more. 18:52:19 -!- barrucadu has changed nick to c5sper. 18:52:40 -!- c5sper has changed nick to barrucadu. 19:00:10 -!- password2 has joined. 19:38:54 -!- Froox has joined. 19:39:09 -!- Frooxius has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 19:49:21 -!- password2 has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 19:50:39 -!- mihow has joined. 19:52:36 hopefully your cracking the passwords on the cray 19:54:15 two days and I'm through with my final exams 19:54:19 that is, if I pass :D 19:56:48 *you're 19:57:16 so far the "don't learn" strategy went well 19:58:37 ? 19:58:53 Hm? 19:59:21 why would you not learn 19:59:35 Because it's mostly boring bullshit 20:00:53 i hope you're not paying too much, then. 20:01:07 About 900 CHF a semester 20:01:26 -!- mhi^ has joined. 20:01:48 but you wouldn't really have a choice even it cost more ;) 20:01:53 +if 20:02:27 It's ridiculously specific stuff they'll ask 20:02:39 like... what policy is needed to create a JAAS LoginContext 20:02:58 I'm so glad I quit CS. 20:03:02 i WISH i knew what my exam questions are going to be like 20:03:10 mroman: a JAASLoginContextPolicy? 20:03:26 I don't bother memorizing all those things 20:03:43 I'm not going to learn the documentation of some Java Interface 20:03:48 chemistry involves an annoying amount of memorization but at least it'll be most of the same memorization as fifty years ago. 20:03:54 I hope that the lecturer included enough information about that interface in his slide 20:03:59 (because I can bring the slides to the exam) 20:04:12 And I'll just look-up stuff on the slides during the exam as I need to 20:04:33 Also not under the control of some megacorp, much as Dow would like. 20:04:37 If I have bad luck, he'll ask stuff he only mentioned in the lectures and did not document in the slides 20:04:40 then I'm screwed 20:05:52 or something that was only mentioned in some exercises 20:05:53 -!- MDude has joined. 20:06:32 I don't really see how it would make me a better computer scientist by memorizing all the stupid shit they teach 20:06:36 so I don't 20:07:58 sounds to me like your program might not be CS at all 20:08:51 it is. but they bloat it up with lots of java specific stuff 20:08:57 and other stuff 20:09:12 I'm just not interested in that 20:09:28 But how will you be enterprise pro? 20:09:46 Rather than memorizing the java compiler's command line options I'd like to learn something about type theory 20:10:01 For god's sake 20:10:01 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 20:10:11 what's the purpose of learning the java compiler's command line options 20:10:18 none 20:10:20 there's none 20:10:34 uh, say you want to compile java 20:10:38 you want to just learn abstract nonsense? but how will you ever *do* anything without knowing how to invoke javac? 20:10:56 There's a freaking manual for it somewhere 20:11:13 So when you go make Java with a bunch of bullies they won't bother you for checking the manual every once in a while. 20:11:43 In the rare cases you actually alter the javac command line by much 20:11:45 you'll look it up 20:11:58 and by hand 20:12:04 this sounds sorta, "why bother learning arithmetic if there's calculators"!! 20:12:08 no 20:12:39 Are you trying to say that Java is a fundamental a concept as arithmatic? 20:12:44 *as 20:12:48 It's more like "why bother learning arithmetic if there's a book about that documents how that works" 20:12:57 erm. there is 20:13:06 there are... there are lots of books about arithmetic, mroman 20:13:12 I know. 20:13:19 but there's a difference imo. 20:13:35 i should write a book about arithmetic 20:13:37 but... but you just analogised it to that. like, yourself. you made that comparison 20:13:46 I know. 20:14:16 I want to learn stuff 20:14:20 not memorize stuff 20:14:59 I'm tired of memorizing the syntax of a programming language every semester and then have a final exam about where you have to find the 10 syntax errors he's hidden 20:15:03 To me, learning the details of Java in a computer science course sounds like learning the details of a particular make of car in a physics class. 20:15:18 That's just not what it's for. 20:15:37 ok as much as we all want to be little dijkstras, do you really want CS classes that involve: no touching computers; writing programs 20:15:41 I'm tired of memorizing what Exceptions some Java Function throws 20:15:50 like, do you think CS graduates should not know how to implement algorithms 20:16:12 elliott: They should know how to implement algorithms. 20:16:25 obviously 20:17:31 elliott: There's a difference between teaching OOP through Java 20:17:56 I'm not defending your curriculum, I just think your broader position is untenable 20:18:05 and forcing your students to remember that notify() can throw a IllegalMonitorStateExecption 20:18:18 the first one teaches concepts 20:18:46 I don't think a CS curriculum should be theory divorced from practice as much as I don't think it should be practice divorced from theory. 20:18:47 Not touching comptuers at all is one thing, but Java can be a bit far in the other extreme. 20:18:57 the second one teaches where the nut A1241 is located in a Boing 717 20:19:32 sure. I mean, I wouldn't pick Java. but it's probably not that bad a choice: it's incredibly popular, and has just enough abstraction to be able to actually implement things and not worry about memory safety. it's the least common denominator. it's certainly a shame, though 20:20:00 It's not about the language choice actually 20:20:09 It's more about what makes more sense teaching 20:20:28 It's incredibly popular for reasons that have nothing to do with its sutability for CS classes. 20:20:46 I'm not saying Java is a bad choice to teach 20:21:09 elliott: can we somehow teach students not to crank out shitty papers for the sake of cranking out shitty papers? 20:21:14 MDude: yes, but you know, grounding the lessons in what they have a good chance of using day-to-day afterwards isn't really that bad an idea. 20:21:29 At that point, that you list three exceptions 20:21:39 and ask your students which one of those are built-in in python 20:21:42 you've gone to far 20:21:48 *too 20:21:53 that's my point 20:22:39 yeah 20:24:23 mroman: how about the type of exam where I give a short program with one or two plausible errors (ones that I could make when writing the program) AND the compiler error messages (from a sane compiler with sane switches) which actually explain the errors, and the students have to understand what the compiler says and tell how to fix those one or two errors? 20:25:43 I guess that'd be ok 20:25:52 there's no black/white I think 20:26:04 sure, you need multiple types of questions on the exam 20:26:14 reading error messages is a sorely lacking skill in my experience, they should teach that in school 20:26:33 I'd say it's important to be able to understand compiler messages from a sane compiler 20:26:50 of course this requires that you use a language that has a compiler that usually gives sane error messages 20:27:01 I mean 20:27:11 I'm aware of my bias due to frustration ;) 20:27:28 already being very nimble in lot of programming languages 20:27:57 It drives you mad to memorize what exceptions are built-in to yet another language that happens to be taught at the university 20:28:57 I happen to know a lot of details like that about other languages 20:29:09 just not the one they decided to teach thoroughly at their university 20:30:16 It's not entirely bad though 20:30:22 You can list it on your CV 20:30:26 that you are now fluent in Java too 20:30:37 mroman: besides reading the error messages, one thing I tried to teach the students is how to debug a program by inserting printf statements to print intermediate results and check manually whether they look right 20:31:03 It just isn't what I expected from my tsudy 20:31:05 *study 20:31:10 that's all :) 20:31:22 b_jonas: "teach"? 20:31:28 That's probably the most obvious thing to do ever 20:31:35 It's even easier than handling gdb 20:32:03 and "tried"? 20:32:04 mroman: yes. I'm mentioning the highlights here, mind you, my courses very very lousy in general. 20:32:13 "tried" kinda has the conotation that it didn't work out well? :D 20:32:48 it's hard to tell how it worked out really 20:33:48 but yeah 20:34:00 those courses weigh my conscience a bit because I might have made those mathematicians hate programming for ever, 20:34:03 It takes experience and exercises to debug well 20:34:26 though luckily it was the course for second year students where I did really badly, and second-years are supposed to be more resistant to bad teachers hopefully 20:34:29 I notice how some people are so convinced that the error must be somewhere around line X 20:34:37 even without having actual evidence that it's there 20:34:42 well sure 20:34:44 they just have a hunch or I don't know 20:35:01 and they are so focused on that they don't actually check what's really going on 20:35:10 one interesting episode is when I was called to find the error in a student's program, and I debugged it for like five minutes and couldn't find it, 20:35:19 at which point I asked for help on irc, 20:35:31 it turned out the error was a semicolon after the closing paren of a for statement 20:35:47 I probably didn't notice that because that's a mistake I personally would not make 20:36:12 ah 20:36:15 but I should have noticed it from the symptoms, because I did trace the execution and did see that the loop body didn't run enough times for some reason 20:36:15 I once wrote 20:36:20 if(foo); dooBar(); 20:36:28 (with a new line in between) 20:36:47 but they obvious thing to do, when dooBar() isn't executed when you expect is 20:36:50 is to rewrite it as 20:37:00 print foo 20:37:16 if(foo); dooBar 20:37:41 that checks if you programmed the condition write 20:38:01 and if it prints true but dooBar isn't executed 20:38:02 I don't know if I'd have noticed it eventually. This was during a course so I was pressed for time and chose to ask a second pair of eyes for speedup, which was the right decision I think. 20:38:08 it's most likely a damn semicolon somewhere :D 20:38:58 in my own code, I'm more affraid of making the opposite mistake: adding an if condition, then getting distracted and forgetting to add a body, so it scopes the next statement which should always be executed 20:39:53 for this reason I try to type a {} right after the closing paren of the condition unless I can type the first token of the body like immediately in the next second 20:40:09 probably I should write {} _before_ I write the closing paren 20:42:05 it's sort of like how you should never type 'rm *.o' in the shell left to right, for a mistake can turn it to 'rm *' -- you should either write it as '#rm *.o' then erase the '#', or write 'rm .o' then add the splat 20:42:34 or better, type 'echo rm -v *.o', execute it, check the result, then remove the echo and re-run 20:45:35 or just keep backups :P 20:46:08 elliott: AND 20:46:11 do both 20:46:27 and keep the .o files in a separate directory 20:46:39 olsner: and remove them with 'make clear' 20:46:49 b_jonas: if you limit the work you can lose, then the low probability of the mistake weighted against the loss it'll incur is outweighed by the loss in productivity caused by being paranoid about everything you do 20:47:02 and possibly try 'make -n clear' first, though make -n isn't a sure-fire way to do nothing 20:47:02 everythi 20:47:04 ng has a cost 20:47:10 hmm, "clear"? that makes sense but I have never seen that spelling afaik 20:47:19 elliott: sure, I'm always paranoid 20:47:28 olsner: 'make clean' sorry 20:47:43 b_jonas: right. so you're losing more work than you would with being fast but with very good backups 20:47:59 because you're missing out on all the potential work you could do by effectively having more time and worrying less about deleting things 20:48:09 elliott: yes 20:48:13 that's true 20:49:59 I guess this is just another form of "easier to ask forgiveness than permission" 20:51:23 that's a strange interpretation of this latter statement 20:51:30 interesting 20:52:23 forgiveness i.e. "oops, I made a mistake and deleted all my files, please undo" 20:52:44 permission i.e. "please figure out whether I am competent enough to be deleting the right files" :) 20:53:03 permission -- check then do; forgiveness -- do then potentially recover 20:54:44 Hmm. 20:55:12 I'd think recovering a backup might take more time than typing a bit weird every once in a while for a specific command. 20:56:07 gn8 20:56:31 I'd think, though, that if you use 'rm *.o' a lot and worry about mistakinly pressing enter early, you could just make a script that does nothing but run 'rm *.o' 20:56:41 MDude: yeah, unfortunately our undo buttons aren't that great yet. this is a perennial UI problem. however, there are rather convenient things (btrfs snapshots, say) where it's really no big deal 20:56:51 b_jonas: that's why python has indentation :) 20:56:53 And give it a short name. 20:56:56 fixes a lot of these problems :D 20:56:57 or, for a rather common method of backing up code against rm *: git reset --hard 20:57:37 mostly, I don't personally make that mistake anywhere near often enough to care much about the hardship of restoring afterwards... 20:57:52 Obv. the solution is to switch to the fossil filesystem. 20:58:04 yeah, that would be nice. have you seen NILFS? 21:00:30 No, it's been a while since I went around looking at filesystems. 21:02:04 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:09:00 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 21:27:27 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 21:29:55 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:37:03 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 21:42:02 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 21:46:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 21:56:24 -!- fcrawl has quit (Quit: Ik ga weg). 21:57:55 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:06:36 -!- boily has joined. 22:14:45 bohily 22:16:41 boerjansoir. 22:17:18 gesundhello 22:18:35 -!- metasepia has joined. 22:18:36 ~metar CYUL 22:18:36 CYUL 182200Z 29014G20KT 30SM FEW040TCU BKN090 OVC240 24/14 A2986 RMK TCU1AC5CI2 SLP113 DENSITY ALT 1200FT 22:18:53 ~metar ENVA 22:18:54 ENVA 182150Z 11004KT 9999 -RA FEW005 SCT012 BKN030 10/09 Q1009 RMK WIND 670FT 17005KT 22:19:01 how come it feels so humid outside, even if it's 24 over 14? 22:19:02 brr 22:19:08 -!- not^v has joined. 22:21:00 I should go and enjoy the Norwegian summer one day... 22:22:27 why would you want to do that? 22:23:04 because it seems fun? 22:23:52 ok 22:24:26 maybe it is, I've only been in norway in the winter that I can remember 22:25:20 once we went there in summer and came back with weird flatbread, coins with holes in them and oddly shaped candy 22:26:30 you had me at coins with holes. 22:29:24 oh well, time to sleep 22:30:41 olsner: you can't remember going in summer but you did? 22:37:16 hm do we have coins with holes any more 22:37:48 duh two of them in fact 22:38:04 (1 and 5 nok) 22:38:42 * oerjan isn't really up to date with the recent weird candy 22:39:13 as for flatbread, there are probably heaps of types 22:39:16 -!- brandonsons|2 has changed nick to brandonson. 22:42:18 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:42:48 -!- not^v has joined. 22:44:10 -!- S1 has joined. 22:46:43 -!- Sgeo has joined. 22:49:26 I can't stop thinking of Erlang/Elixir+OTP as encouraging global mutable state 22:49:32 Processes seem like they're often registered with a static name 22:49:34 boily: it's masculine bed that makes no sense 22:49:35 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:04 Should I be thinking of (some) supervisors almost like factories? Call a function with the supervisor and the supervisor can create a child and return its PID? Is that a normal flow? 22:50:15 I've been wondering how to make supervised children dynamically for so long 22:50:44 -!- augur has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:50:48 -!- augur has joined. 22:50:56 shachaf: not my problem. our object genders are correctly and obviously assigned :P 22:51:06 -!- boily has quit (Quit: OCCLUSAL CHICKEN). 22:53:09 Suppose I have a simple_one_for_one to do exactly this. Is that simple_one_for_one generally registered? (a.k.a global state) 22:54:55 Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? 22:55:08 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140608211810]). 22:55:25 -!- metasepia has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 22:55:29 do any of us even know erlang 22:56:16 I think Vorpal? 22:56:43 Vorpal isn't here 22:56:59 but #esoteric is more of a stream of consciousness channel for Sgeo, i think 22:57:58 `addquote Is this the wrong place to ask Erlang questions? 22:58:31 People here answer questions about all sorts of non-esoteric languages, so I guess I kind of figured 23:03:46 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:04:26 -!- Sorella has quit (Max SendQ exceeded). 23:05:53 -!- Sorella has joined. 23:05:55 Sgeo: I always thought of globally registered supervisors/actors as a little odd, but often a necessary evil. Passing around a PID to everything seemed a bit like overkill. 23:06:30 Practically every example I've seen uses them though 23:06:44 What's the non-global registered way to do normal stuff? 23:06:55 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:07:44 Sgeo: Passing around PIDs I think. I just hate the extra parameter cause without static typing I always mix the order of params up :P 23:08:37 If I'm not dynamically registering children, how do I make a gen_server that there should in most circumstances be one of and have the supervisor supervise it? 23:08:53 I'm just trying to understand how passing around PIDs interacts with the supervision tree 23:12:24 Sgeo: You'd generally have the supervisor create children when it's created and send you the PIDs if you need them, I think. Little sketchy on my knowledge here though, I'm more familiar with akka/scala actors. 23:12:52 How do I get the top level supervisor of my application? 23:17:06 Sgeo: It's likely the original actor that you create, so you can pass it as a parameter to anything that needs it and then store it as state. I don't think many actors need it though, you're more likely to need the PIDs for supervisors/workers that perform whatever tasks an actor needs done. 23:18:28 Sgeo: The top level actor/supervisor is almost always/always always your error kernel that really should never fail, so you don't want too many things touching it. 23:27:38 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:27:44 Is this gif adequate, or is there something I can improve? http://corewar.co.uk/32.gif 23:27:46 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:29:32 It demonstrates an imp moving through memory (a single instruction program that copies itself one instruction ahead, then executes the new copy) 23:29:39 I like it. 23:29:48 and it seems reasonably smooth 23:30:54 impomatic: looks good 23:33:15 brandonson, bike: thanks :-) I just look at it and think it could be done better, but I've no idea how! 23:33:24 It was made in GIMP 23:33:35 i hear polytone knows a thing or two about gifs 23:33:46 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:34:23 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 23:34:23 -!- sebbu has joined. 23:42:47 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Leaving...). 23:46:55 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:50:26 -!- not^v has joined. 23:55:25 -!- mhi^ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:56:53 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:57:30 -!- mhi^ has joined.