< 1405642237 149922 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cqulutzmivoxjklz QUIT : < 1405642527 596631 :Bike_!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net NICK :Bike < 1405642821 212041 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1405643163 651670 :brrr!~brrr@trivialand/emeritus/brrr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405644187 499885 :aretecode!~aretecode@50.23.131.206-static.reverse.softlayer.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1405644418 837636 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1405645131 75613 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: Lightning storm < 1405645257 693910 :brrr!~brrr@trivialand/emeritus/brrr JOIN :#esoteric < 1405647851 762112 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1405647855 891110 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most numbers are really weird < 1405647920 718458 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Name three. < 1405648057 871189 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1405648112 266709 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: most numbers are unnameable hth < 1405648131 449874 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1405648135 785135 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i feel like that was the joke :'( < 1405648262 552740 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specker_sequence < 1405648395 886000 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 3 is quite a weird number < 1405648399 485552 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the first odd prime < 1405648421 901791 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :most numbers are way weirder than that < 1405648507 204695 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a reasonable number is something like a computable number - you can ask a program to give you the value within a certain precision (like, say, a pi calculator where you ask for N digits) and it runs in a finite amount of time < 1405648571 483752 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1405648579 53746 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are countably infinitely many programs, there are countably many computable numbers. which means that they are infinitely more un-computable numbers (since the real numbers are countably infinite) < 1405648588 370722 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'd say all numbers are weird < 1405648637 286994 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about numbers in a ring, are those less weird? < 1405648642 387391 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about 1148? i think 1148 is pretty average < 1405648657 277300 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :works hard, drinks with his mates < 1405648734 860371 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, natural numbers in a group, what's a group to a ring, what's a ring to a field? < 1405648743 131417 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :41*7*4 < 1405648744 97158 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a field to an art historian? < 1405648861 266378 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to encrypt his data and error-correct his CDs? < 1405649697 720537 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to think of what more questions to add into the "Quiz of Many zzo38's Questions"? I have actually added some already, but it doesn't have enough questions yet. < 1405650456 450405 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say about numbers, you should say if you mean natural numbers, real numbers, complex numbers, etc < 1405650520 551313 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Quit: It is tiem! < 1405650733 529044 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world is a scary place right now :( < 1405650783 58250 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of it is minerals. < 1405650809 885833 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been worse < 1405650908 196537 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least communism isn't really a thing anymore < 1405650953 276457 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :taneb: https://twitter.com/Plane_Talking/status/489843455192227840 < 1405650983 908630 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, I was more referring to the shit going down in Gaza < 1405651001 395874 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the other one < 1405651023 123423 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the third one is the white house suspect package shutdown thing < 1405651048 797015 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't heard that < 1405651094 451007 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Summary? < 1405651154 880661 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :they found something weird on a white house lawn, did usual security things in response < 1405651177 223732 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was probably communists < 1405651923 568780 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, it's suddenly almost 5 am < 1405651926 309031 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bed is a mile away < 1405651983 593790 :newsham_!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily tomorrow is a week long so you have time to get there < 1405652071 985483 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham_, I have essentially no commitments until the end of September so I could in theory just stay here < 1405652085 565644 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: um, it's 4 am < 1405652091 258723 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :3:54 rather < 1405652115 157966 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yes, that one < 1405652127 732831 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH IS ONLY AN HOUR AWAY FROM FIVE AM < 1405652141 199872 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, if I wait an hour I can catch the sunrise < 1405652179 864554 :newsham_!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way the morning broke was quite unusual... < 1405652505 164632 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :That feels like the first half of a quote < 1405652717 630676 :newsham_!~chat@udp217044uds.hawaiiantel.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. odd.. android apps will be able to run in chromeos soon < 1405652777 644469 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have eighteen questions in this quiz file. See if you can answer them or at least to guess. < 1405652814 974533 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I guess "Yes" on all of them. < 1405652825 753250 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did I do? < 1405652834 400598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Sorry, you got all of the questions wrong. < 1405652870 783760 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, whoa, whoa, we were supposed to get them right too? < 1405652890 321490 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should try to read the questions at first. And then, yes, to try to get them right too. < 1405652905 44917 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I read the questions? < 1405652911 85591 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use gopher. < 1405653021 937192 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then wait a minute < 1405653436 883963 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sprunge.us/TeXX < 1405653442 682482 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are the questions! < 1405653463 849779 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, I've reached morning twilight < 1405653478 251470 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm still sat here in a university computer lab doing a whole lot of nothing < 1405653708 808767 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Do you like these kind of questions? "Yes" isn't even one of the choices!!! < 1405653722 388703 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :("No" also isn't even one of the choices!!!) < 1405653728 971136 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Can I use a reference to answer them? < 1405653755 296544 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: That is kind of like cheating, so try first to do it without a reference. < 1405653775 385964 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late, I already looked up the answer to one of the questions. < 1405653783 618655 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :But let me simulate a version of myself that didn't look it up. < 1405653788 345619 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then revise it with a reference afterward if you prefer, but I would like to see your first guesses too. < 1405653814 268873 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, I can't even refer to earlier questions in the same quiz? < 1405653856 338561 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The computer is supposed to ask you one at a time, but since it is like this, you can print out and refer to the same quiz if you want to, even though it isn't designed that way at first. < 1405653927 78038 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, send me your answers in the private; I can tell you how many is correct. Make it public too if you want to, but perhaps you shouldn't in case other people want to try it independently instead. < 1405654021 396671 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I would like to see your initial decisions and opinions too! < 1405654184 687307 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like this? < 1405654202 804522 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly "I don't know". < 1405654243 1350 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the questions that you don't know, try to make a good guess, I suppose. < 1405654331 836339 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :please add "How do you make a slow horse fast?" < 1405654335 299253 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION --> watching the sunrise < 1405654339 750813 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to see the options for that question < 1405654368 795605 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't know! < 1405654403 139746 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :try to make a good guess < 1405654423 295827 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1405654442 311033 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is, if they won't eat then it is fasting < 1405654490 840550 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are your answers in this quiz so far though? < 1405655128 331043 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :This campus seems to have been designed specifically to prevent people watching the sunlight < 1405655131 195639 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sunrise < 1405655618 486681 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I have a Commodore 64 program which consists of 256 bytes to load starting at $500 and the rest to load starting at $D00, how to convert that into a disk image? < 1405655668 893061 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : The whole concept of "read a different member of a union than the one that was last written to" is only (barely) legal due to a footnote, and that in a late (C99?) standard. And even with the footnote, some people argue against it from the perspective of the strict-aliasing rules. < 1405655688 12322 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, The issue is that it can be very useful, and I don't really know a good alternative in C < 1405655695 638889 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ has reinterpret_cast of course < 1405655699 471903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: I think the GNU C compiler documentation says that it is specifically allowed. < 1405655701 115965 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But C? Not so much < 1405655738 275604 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, oh yes, GCC allows it. So does Clang. But from a standard perspective it is definitely a murky area < 1405655773 781049 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1405655915 234370 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gregor: hbd < 1405656173 688452 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1405656193 405618 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: memcpy through char* is allowed, right? < 1405656278 312351 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :having to call out to the library just to look at some bytes in a new light seems like kind of a bummer < 1405656281 391217 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :T x = ...; U y; char c[sizeof x]; memcpy(c, (char *) &x, sizeof x); memcpy((char *) &y, c, sizeof x); or something at least < 1405656288 356546 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: well, you can implement memcpy yourself < 1405656298 168691 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose memcpy((char *) &y, (char *) &x, sizeof x) should be okay too < 1405656329 634430 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (int i = 0; i < sizeof x; i++) ((char *)&y)[i] = ((char *)&x)[i]; if you want to avoid memcpy I guess < 1405656337 548315 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why < 1405656357 275989 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that works for whatever types x and y are? < 1405656418 378808 :Bike!~Glossina@71-222-52-20.ptld.qwest.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i don't care really, i shouldn't talk about these things so far outside my future experience < 1405656722 993790 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're allowed to view any object through (char *) < 1405656739 426655 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise how would you write memcpy? < 1405656747 21185 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes two pointers to anything (void *) and copies < 1405656756 180057 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does this by casting the pointers to (char *) internally < 1405656762 914416 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can copy the objects byte-by-byte, whatever they are < 1405658273 44996 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSION < 1405658273 263933 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-088-078-156-068.pools.arcor-ip.net NOTICE #esoteric :VERSION SimpleIRC v0.3 < 1405658277 119441 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :plsno < 1405658283 300137 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :+C this channel or i kill everyone < 1405658300 648173 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :so many irssi users :o < 1405658318 594259 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: stop it < 1405658329 613152 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, ;-; sowee < 1405658413 148576 :Shubshub!IceChat9@0.217.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1405658416 596643 :Shubshub!IceChat9@0.217.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh hey < 1405658444 740376 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shubshub, i can read your mind < 1405658448 265646 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are using..... < 1405658450 686186 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :IceChat! < 1405658453 876865 :Shubshub!IceChat9@0.217.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :No shit < 1405658458 491372 :Shubshub!IceChat9@0.217.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Ident does say that < 1405658484 673361 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it is in the username too < 1405658491 300151 :Shubshub!IceChat9@0.217.252.27.dyn.cust.vf.net.nz QUIT :Client Quit < 1405658504 271655 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1405658504 896595 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :bai < 1405658522 837057 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, wtf? < 1405658523 495647 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from 18zzo38: 241405608507.670 second(s) < 1405658586 415643 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :^v: what are you doing here < 1405658609 83653 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, typing < 1405658640 885272 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PART :#esoteric < 1405658698 667686 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you type fast? < 1405658800 712605 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, idk < 1405658812 608414 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :define fast because i type faster than everyone i know < 1405658853 336831 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How fast is that? < 1405659420 560322 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :take one of those typing speed tests < 1405659423 880416 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :get your wpm < 1405659961 827458 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : Vorpal: memcpy through char* is allowed, right? <-- Hm true < 1405660012 121284 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf JOIN :#esoteric < 1405660018 682984 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott, I guess it could be less optimised than a simple union conversion though. GCC probably would optimise it, but still, for some implementations it might involve a function call < 1405660026 692907 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: are you the person that i talked to about categories in here a while ago or was it someone else < 1405660037 532497 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you allowed to read object as a different type if both types are volatile? < 1405660039 762553 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man the strict aliasing stuff < 1405660040 360072 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :It may have been me < 1405660044 492654 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, I think it was < 1405660062 704805 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :volatile I'm not sure guarantees much safety at all < 1405660077 577394 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't think volatile changes that stuff at all < 1405660090 600849 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost a comment by now < 1405660112 516621 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: i don't remember what you do and don't know so it's hard to figure out what to recommend < 1405660116 272705 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does gcc deal with pointer aliasing anyways? < 1405660121 236770 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, well, I used it for stuff aliasing hardware registers when programming on bare metal < 1405660133 55717 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's the one place I've seen it < 1405660156 253811 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I'm between 1st and 2nd year at university doing maths and computer science < 1405660158 182511 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :though doing that probably takes a memory barrier on x86 by now < 1405660163 328790 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, I have also seen it in multi-threading context, for use with stuff like compare and exchange and so on < 1405660180 326777 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : for multithreading you shouldn't use volatile I think < 1405660186 311841 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should use mutexes < 1405660199 993794 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, I said for compare and exchange, locked such < 1405660203 400166 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :atomic operations < 1405660210 742369 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I ought to get some sleep just in case anyone comes round. < 1405660239 170210 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, you know LOCK CMPXCHG16 and similar instructions on x86 < 1405660248 344457 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :msvc lets you interpret volatile in multiple ways o_O < 1405660252 807643 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1405660289 336716 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taneb: that doesn't help much < 1405660304 342342 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The volatile keyword in C++11 ISO Standard code is to be used only for hardware access; do not use it for inter-thread communication." < 1405660316 185288 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf, I don't get much in the way of options until third year < 1405660335 549422 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure there's no guarantee that volatile compares into a cmpxchg < 1405660341 864523 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a vague interest in functional programming, mostly because of this channel < 1405660356 182389 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh applications where mutex isn't the solution are rare < 1405660360 92249 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, hm. The location I saw it used for threading stuff was in legacy Windows C++ code iirc < 1405660360 302047 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I like group theory? < 1405660372 326450 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : legacy? < 1405660383 630373 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in pre ~1996? < 1405660385 807848 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, as in years and years of old stuff in the massive code base < 1405660387 787296 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1405660392 801897 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 2000 < 1405660398 382278 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1405660400 506110 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think volatile read/writes should be used to mean that volatile reads/writes can be neither reordered nor optimized out, so it is then considered similar to like an external subroutine call. < 1405660421 461434 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm also pretty terrible at, like, life and stuff < 1405660421 735535 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Anyway I used non-mutex syncronization, but then I work on real-time control systems < 1405660438 166261 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah exactly < 1405660447 567639 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes just notifying a thread about something using a mutex is too much overhead < 1405660449 854563 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never used multithreading except for audio with SDL < 1405660466 725003 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I also am not here any more < 1405660478 941877 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the case of SDL there are function calls for the case of locking and unlocking the audio thread. < 1405660482 419773 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do audio code so it's about the same thing, multithreading for audio < 1405660535 972261 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people avoid all memory allocation and mutexes when dealing with audio threads < 1405660546 468196 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they have to work at low latencies < 1405660616 556004 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, oh yeah memory allocations can be quite annoying, at least I'm not working on a low-power real-time system. We are basically using Pentiums. < 1405660625 646342 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARMs? < 1405660631 84038 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1405660635 324168 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should we need to? < 1405660635 996419 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Power is not an issue when you have a 1000 V three-phase AC connection driving the equipment anyway < 1405660649 427215 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mining equipment) < 1405660676 963980 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just assuming ARM since they're the popular embedded arch of the day < 1405660691 931727 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, I believe there are some plans on using ARM in the future though < 1405660733 662214 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for now it is all x86, about 1 GHz, 512 MB RAM. Really rugged industrial PCs basically. With CAN and all that jazz. < 1405660748 963010 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1405660819 546221 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :audio is like all floating point and sorta number-crunchy, but also real-time and kinda video game-like < 1405660821 106715 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Someone told me that the only way to get more rugged is to get hardware intended for space. I mean we have to deal with some really bad environments... Humid +50 C with salt water running over the stuff. As well as -50 C in Siberia above ground < 1405660870 885776 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the latency that it has to respond at? < 1405660920 25701 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have IO read/write cycles times of 40 ms to 80 ms depending on the product. That is what drives most stuff in the system. < 1405660931 136914 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :pro audio often uses 96 sample buffers. at 44.1khz, that's 2ms < 1405660943 968948 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, you don't have to do quite so many things though < 1405660950 252872 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like ARM though < 1405660957 135769 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: why not? < 1405660980 454060 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think past the first version is too complicated, like x86 also is past the first few versions < 1405660986 704562 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, we have to (depending on product again) calculate how to move an articulated robot arm, drive around obstacles and so on. < 1405660996 383717 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : that's like every cpu < 1405661047 807290 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : once you add an MMU and an FPU (ie make it actually useful) they all turn into sprawling architectures < 1405661059 415735 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh true < 1405661121 862864 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention a 64bit version < 1405661136 910600 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a simd instruction set or two < 1405661142 423332 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, also: fuck hydraulics. It is just annoying < 1405661166 564543 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you kill someone if your code explodes? < 1405661178 451966 :MoALTz__!~no@user-46-112-11-132.play-internet.pl QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1405661221 519125 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, well, we do have heartbeats that will close down all IO if it is skipped and so on. But yes in theory a bug could have some really bad consequences. < 1405661233 397032 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be done without MMU and FPU < 1405661262 639928 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : without an MMU you're ok if you're doing, like, a nintendo DS or something like that < 1405661285 717772 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, There are of course physical emergency stop circuits and so on that won't fail, but still, there could be some danger yes. < 1405661293 565559 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have multitasking, that is over and you need an MMU < 1405661328 244511 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : still kinda cool < 1405661350 899502 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like everything that isn't java enterprise servers and the like :o < 1405661354 245305 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, I think there is probably more safety features than on a car. I never seen an emergency stop button for all the computers in a car! < 1405661379 263757 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Well it is C++. And boost to some extent. Fuck boost. < 1405661385 667426 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man < 1405661396 874222 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah vaguely heard about boost < 1405661410 374679 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Qt for GUI. < 1405661423 138273 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh shit once you add once small piece you have the whole shebang and it compiles super slow" < 1405661452 711131 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, it is the link times that kill it. We are switching platforms to Linux currently. The old RTOS only supported static linking. < 1405661458 113179 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : does QT do the job ok? < 1405661468 124436 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, eh, it is ok < 1405661491 586146 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one I've used was java's swing and it's kindof horrible < 1405661502 683985 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it's superficially okay < 1405661526 292096 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm sure for enterprise software that nobody cares if it works sorta wonky, it's fine < 1405661550 408863 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like none of its gui components are the real thing and they all work subtly wrong < 1405661597 447923 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can make task switching in other ways too which are done by software; depending on the system it might be workable, although this is only for saving tasks rather than having multiples at once in an easy way, unless you run them on separate CPUs. < 1405661619 523532 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, anyway compile and link times on Linux are so much better than the old RTOS. We had Windows CE for some modules, that really unknown RTOS for some other. All built using MSVC 2005. That was slow to compile, even when distributed over the network. < 1405661619 703919 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to do a tight productivity app it's not going to work out ok if you use swing and will probably end up overriding everything < 1405661619 884950 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think is good idea to have separate processors for separate tasks. < 1405661667 929897 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, heh < 1405661679 693730 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : MMUs give you virtual memory basically < 1405661686 369635 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what, you mean running one thread per CPU? < 1405661689 1862 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems insane < 1405661700 376603 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also they generally prevent memory fragmentation < 1405661721 897695 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps aux indicates my system is running 316 processes. And god knows how many thread. < 1405661726 172992 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes it is what I mean < 1405661729 329698 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love having 316 cores... < 1405661758 457036 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ps Haux | wc -l < 1405661758 675629 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :733 < 1405661759 580558 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Yes, but I am meaning you would do it without virtual memory, so you don't use MMU < 1405661765 1113 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :So 733 threads < 1405661784 345263 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then when you run out of ram, instead of just going slow, everything crashes? < 1405661792 553322 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, that seems stupid. Virtual memory helps isolate processes, limiting the scope of errors < 1405661797 893282 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then your system is too complicated; Windows and Linux system get too complicated. < 1405661804 880309 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: Any new programs won't start! < 1405661818 574495 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : what about allready running programs < 1405661831 376319 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc will fail and they will explode < 1405661883 559713 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, virtual memory does not imply swap though. < 1405661901 759804 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap requires it yes, at least as commonly implemented < 1405661940 535924 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think we are mixing up "virtual memory", "swap" and "over committing" here. < 1405661946 693111 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, if you're doing a non-multithreading platform < 1405661952 234351 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an embedded ap < 1405661961 244283 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a Gameboy advance < 1405661967 607078 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, embedded systems are probably multi-threaded < 1405661985 692896 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, some really low level kind of system probably without an OS < 1405661989 374754 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm true < 1405661994 749959 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need an MMU < 1405662005 864108 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I guess all the controllers for dish-washers and so on < 1405662029 61863 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would want to do it without OS; just the BIOS is used. < 1405662051 582731 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, BIOS? You are kidding me. An embedded SOC doesn't have a BIOS < 1405662071 299854 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm not sure BIOSes make that much sense anymore < 1405662076 162128 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is then up to an individual program if it supports other programs it can call in the same memory. < 1405662087 851821 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: I think it does and is important. < 1405662093 310437 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have anything on a SOC except the instruction set and some special addresses or such that will control the GPIO states < 1405662101 907894 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it needs to get the system to boot, yes < 1405662106 716547 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but past that? < 1405662119 151111 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, a SOC doesn't have a BIOS to boot it... < 1405662145 709937 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just has an entry point into the executable NOR flash. And it is probably a Harvard architecture < 1405662146 708467 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : true but it doesn't have to read the program off some mechanical drive :D < 1405662150 429356 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think AVR or PIC < 1405662155 315661 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1405662156 352608 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1405662171 642224 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 STRSTART 'H' 'E' 'L' 'L' 'O' ' ' 'W' 'O' 'R' 'L' 'D' '!' STREND 1 BEGIN 2 READCHAR OUTVAL 1 DROP END START !1 @ISINPUT WHILE END < 1405662182 389379 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Btw, have I ever mentioned how boring Harvard architectures are? < 1405662191 662222 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric enough for you? < 1405662192 734991 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : no? < 1405662199 104854 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: The BIOS would be used for some hardware access too, and you don't need to use operating system, just BIOS. < 1405662206 204728 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, They pretty much prevent self-modifying code < 1405662213 660605 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : true < 1405662235 163518 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : but to do a fast cpu you need a separate instruction and data cache < 1405662241 68687 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my pathetic attempt at code? < 1405662247 655176 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal: Yes, although a Restricted Harvard can be useful if you want to be able to convert into other instruction sets; a plain Harvard won't, though, so it isn't so useful. < 1405662278 793959 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SchrodingersCat: Can you explain it better then? < 1405662287 942512 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet < 1405662295 600981 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1405662302 332971 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, true, but at least it still supports self-modification to some extent. And loading new code into memory < 1405662306 986255 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sorta pseudocode at the moment < 1405662315 635460 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vorpal : oh, right < 1405662321 931795 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :SchrodingersCat, what language is it? < 1405662330 129640 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own < 1405662333 211966 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1405662347 179668 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :SchrodingersCat, some sort of stack based language? < 1405662369 643578 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me a bit of Forth < 1405662389 55803 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stack-oriented language that exists only in a few sheets of a small notebook < 1405662413 825760 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 : anyhow, does it have multitasking? < 1405662433 851127 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on RPN < 1405662469 962606 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1405662513 690529 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't have multitasking, you can live without an MMU. if it has multitasking... you probably need an MMU or else you will cry < 1405662560 225256 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, windows 3.0 does it without (it runs on a 286 after all) but it's also well known for being a buggy POS < 1405662567 318485 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restricted Harvard = a harvard architecture with the following restrictions: * You cannot set the program counter to arbitrary data; it has to be read from "program address registers" which are read from "program address memory" (or immediate operands) and no arithmetic is possible. * You cannot read/write program data; only execution is possible. Loading is only possible atomically to program code. < 1405662637 829597 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It doesn't have multitasking, although it has task saving (which is slower though). The software will have to implement its own multitasking if it requires it. < 1405662679 125947 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :task saving? < 1405662702 366147 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for FPUs < 1405662708 487351 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can live without an FPU < 1405662715 480365 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all ARM did it for years < 1405662748 822420 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just incredibly nice to have < 1405662869 724333 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :take an architecture, add an MMU and a FPU < 1405662886 365278 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the nicest you can make such an architecture? < 1405662913 495190 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like a MIPS < 1405662932 547298 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very much less complex than ARM < 1405662976 807942 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :For task saving, well, it mean the BIOS can save the entire state of the system to disk, and then it is turned off, the file is copied to a new hard disk, placed in a new system with the same or more RAM/speed/etc, ensure its permissions are set to the same level as before, attach all the same peripherals and turn it on and load the system image and the program will just continue where it left off as if nothing unusual has ever happened. < 1405663012 875079 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, once you start going out of order, all the architectures sorta become the same < 1405663054 300642 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like out of order execution; it is a terrible idea. The compiler should make up the order, or the programmer if in assembly language. < 1405663104 36639 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have a supervisor and user mode; the user mode means that the top half of the address space is a mirror of the lower one instead of the actual top area, therefore the BIOS is protected in such a way. Any hardware accessible directly by user code is mapped in the low half. < 1405663152 97097 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it really need that if it's not multitasking? < 1405663165 378204 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're only running one program at the time < 1405663172 70498 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like you need to protect the OS < 1405663253 163259 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of order execution I'm not sure exactly how much speed difference it makes < 1405663282 97175 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it essentially exists because you don't know which memory accesses are going to be fast and fall in ca < 1405663287 727817 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :che < 1405663301 880079 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which ones are going to miss and end up in slow RAM < 1405663319 201170 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it does need to be protected. Therefore newer versions can emulate older versions precisely because the program cannot check. Also, the user with physical access can then program the BIOS to lie about whatever you want. < 1405663329 847975 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the art of the pentium2 and its zillion descendents is to keep the processor going once you have a cache miss < 1405663337 751053 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hyperthreading < 1405663363 934980 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which on paper is a stupid idea < 1405663367 34755 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: It is why you should instead make programming the cache explicitly. Such thing also ensures the same timing and everything with newer versions of the system. < 1405663389 375093 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exists solely because if you have 2 threads on once core, you can swap in the other thread once you have a cache miss < 1405663473 621545 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you just use interrupts to time them instead? < 1405663509 792976 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric : like, windows 3.0 does it without (it runs on a 286 after all) but it's also well known for being a buggy POS < 1405663518 600438 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't forget the classic Mac OS < 1405663543 896385 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was buggy too, and it did multi-tasking without using the MMU < 1405663556 790892 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too familiar with that one < 1405663564 916640 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't it have like... memory compacting :O < 1405663580 280372 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it did < 1405663585 79914 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :You had handles and what not < 1405663603 311514 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cooperative multi-tasking too < 1405663670 290371 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no 320x200 and no hardware scrolling < 1405663677 987342 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck making a game :( < 1405663689 663585 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, Anyway each program had a contiguous memory block. If they were awkwardly spaced, you could sometimes not start a program even if enough free memory existed < 1405663691 134603 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1405663707 662932 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :My old iBook running classic MacOS used 800x600 for resolution < 1405663726 398954 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :And had an early ATI GPU < 1405663745 731484 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's much later no? < 1405663746 758564 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 MB RAM (upgraded to a massive 64 MB!) < 1405663757 556162 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, the windows 95 of MACs :D < 1405663760 30319 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, that is about 2000. Remember those brightly coloured iMacs and such? < 1405663766 694200 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That era < 1405663767 702503 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC < 1405663771 557993 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :300 MHz CPU < 1405663773 651123 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1405663789 229676 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, this was the brightly coloured iBook < 1405663858 813402 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, it still didn't use the MMU that actually existed < 1405663866 563086 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1405663868 522325 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1405663878 701639 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backwards compatibility < 1405663901 181512 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing can still run 68k programs through some sort of emulation layer built into the system < 1405663910 460311 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is programs from the Motorola age < 1405663934 746858 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then it can leave that in crazy land and use the mmu for actual ppc programs no? < 1405663946 276013 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it could, but it doesn't < 1405663947 514555 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :kindof like how windows 9x handles DOS programs < 1405663950 484375 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1405664647 345954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like the 6502 so I still write programs for it. A lot of people still write programs for 6502, I expect. < 1405664777 445975 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :6502 doesn't try to do multithreading < 1405664792 337084 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the 65816 on appleIIgs < 1405664800 353133 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kinda scary tbh :D < 1405664809 129020 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like a low resolution version of mac os < 1405664963 760190 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used a Apple IIgs computer once, although without any GUI functions. < 1405665160 486262 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^0 < 1405665694 601155 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl, going out of town for a few days < 1405665708 302865 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1405665891 112171 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :part < 1405665895 29652 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PART :#esoteric < 1405666116 193083 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405666707 760842 :madbr!boulam@69-165-212-148.cable.teksavvy.com QUIT :Quit: Rouringu de hajikunda! < 1405667760 591524 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone JOIN :#esoteric < 1405668272 165150 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1405668452 397325 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1405668885 861755 :vravn!~vravn@syn.rook.sx QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1405670011 701840 :brrr!~brrr@trivialand/emeritus/brrr QUIT :Quit: Cya! < 1405670219 530674 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a musical notation for the 1 to 32 undertone scale? < 1405670264 352864 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Magic 2015 rules update bulletin is out: http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/magic-2015-update-bulletin-2014-07-17 < 1405670274 810446 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says conspire comes with a rules change too, not just a reminder text change < 1405670278 332538 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1405670279 731894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/conspire/convoke < 1405670541 527843 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: How did Angel of Fury work previously? < 1405670569 476667 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you were the controller but not the owner, and it died, nothing would happen? < 1405670575 684791 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I believe yes < 1405670601 126599 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: that card is strange, how can a Portal card have such an ability in first place? < 1405670610 568704 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :A card can't ever go into a graveyard or library of someone other than its owner, right? < 1405670622 738994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: yes < 1405670629 640114 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hand too) < 1405670955 132800 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :This game is too complicated. < 1405671301 648726 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: Yes, and the rules are too klugy too and not very mathematically elegant. < 1405671310 817221 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Yes. < 1405671344 262586 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you make a game with the same general benefits but with rules that are mathematically elegant? < 1405671351 166130 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Whatever that means.) < 1405671383 384675 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have several ideas about such a variant of Magic: the Gathering actually. < 1405671545 928570 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing I would do is to remove the rules about auras that are also creatures being discarded. I would add back mana burn for strategic reasons. Card types would share subtypes, and none of them having special effects by default. The rule where tokens cease to exist out of play would be replaced with one dealing with initial state of objects. Rules for how different card types are played would differ. Many other things too. < 1405671660 684810 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems awfully specific. < 1405671724 657017 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like the rule where +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters remove each other, so that would also be removed. < 1405671749 960860 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that rule seems like a scow. < 1405671821 708611 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially with e.g. +0/+1 counters and -0/-1 counters not behaving the same way. < 1405671827 161533 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1405671841 802013 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that rule with +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters is very practical even if not nice < 1405671865 362568 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's one rule I'd like to drop, it's the lost all targets spell fizzle rule. < 1405671876 877851 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: Yes I know, but you should just use two different colors < 1405671899 241658 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: It's particularly annoying when that rule applies even for a spell that says "up to one target". < 1405671966 947790 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some rules, specifically the land type change rule, could be helped a great deal with reminder text: in particular I think it was a mistake to print Spreading Seas without a reminder text, as they should have known this from previous cards < 1405671999 405900 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1405671999 589150 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1405672016 687240 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice 9th edition Sea's Claim that has two lines of reminder text for "Enchant land" but nothing about the "is and Island" magic < 1405672033 56416 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it has a great piece of flavor text < 1405672249 464714 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would instead use the following rules for playing a card from your hand: One rule simply gives all instants flash. One says how any card with a mana cost can be played onto the stack. One rule says how lands can also be played at particular types directly into play without paying their mana cost. Furthermore, when the top object of the stack resolves, it goes into play when it finishes resolving; if it didn't go anywhere, it is discarded. < 1405672348 873996 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gives all instants flash" is like that joke for giving all creatures without first strike the new ability "strike" so they can deal combat damage < 1405672349 132688 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1405672429 877058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a creature with first strike didn't deal combat damage in the first strike combat damage step, it deals damage in the main combat damage step < 1405672436 679674 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i found out < 1405672502 281939 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, maybe that wording isn't precisely true < 1405672578 254894 :impomatic_!~chatzilla@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net QUIT :Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243] < 1405672580 393098 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: no, I think that's only the old rule < 1405672583 686576 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't they changed that? < 1405672601 307505 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1405672627 27460 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this about the case when the creature gains first strike after the first strike step, or when it gains nonzero power but always had first strike? < 1405672642 205619 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant the first one. < 1405672649 743165 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought about the second one after writing that. < 1405672679 259208 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one doesn't work, I think. I.e. if it gains nonzero power it still doesn't deal damage. < 1405672682 764775 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one hasn't changed, and I think it's correct, the creature should try to deal damage then < 1405672683 702882 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't like the implementation of planeswalkers, or the name. The idea is OK, though. < 1405672705 873144 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one used to be broken, in that case the creature did try to deal damage again, but I think this was fixed and doesn't anymore < 1405672726 897062 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name "planeswalker"? < 1405672731 228785 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, which one? < 1405672733 489992 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? not because of "plainswalk" right? < 1405672771 396189 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is because of confusion with "plainswalk". < 1405672907 876032 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: You mean it used to be that if a creature gained nonzero power after the first combat damage step, it would deal damage in the second one? < 1405672927 317840 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shachaf: I think so, but I'm not completely sure < 1405672954 551831 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1405674072 954103 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405674417 547576 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405674797 67208 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405674999 512228 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405675214 194299 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1405675781 764086 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1405676597 131345 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1405676731 182722 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1405677481 675064 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405677590 529031 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're basically waiting for Gregor to wake up and get things fixed? < 1405677646 167482 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so. < 1405677684 967486 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also possible he's already complained to the cloud and they haven't fixed it. < 1405677685 164558 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :his 4 day sleep-ins are a bit unnerving. < 1405677709 808138 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose. < 1405677758 133064 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or he has complained, they've fixed it, and he just needs to reboot? < 1405677929 14592 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's also a possibility. < 1405678005 76251 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just think of all the lost esolangs.org revenue this downtime is causing. It is a shying crame. < 1405678142 13714 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@google crame < 1405678142 725203 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camp_Crame < 1405678142 916978 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Title: Camp Crame - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1405678164 888762 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@wn crame < 1405678166 991761 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for "crame". < 1405678357 76706 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405679284 517291 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : and clog i guess <-- yes. < 1405679768 91009 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where was that from? < 1405679776 165304 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or about. < 1405679832 871037 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *MWAHAHAHA* < 1405679839 329899 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will never know. < 1405679873 937235 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was from this channel hth) < 1405680113 846002 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : And I'm still sat here in a university computer lab doing a whole lot of nothing <-- ah i remember those times. < 1405680146 959913 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: you may get a permanently damaged sleeping schedule. < 1405680362 880928 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must've been during a split or something. < 1405680376 714543 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct! < 1405680558 312384 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405680772 629203 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes Taneb in the sleep schedule < 1405681463 419132 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1405681763 569756 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CARTHAGENOUS CHICKEN < 1405683738 875520 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1405683843 688076 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405683930 686071 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405684865 325646 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405685131 240144 :fcrawl!~nooodl@91.176.143.135 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405686246 155617 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1405686285 148301 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1405688058 165635 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405688231 778957 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1405689485 865615 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405690273 461965 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1405691224 92666 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405692563 689169 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. The exported citation is saying "pages 1-4", and I can't be sure if it's for reals (sounds unlikely), or just some sort of a dummy entry. < 1405692597 284204 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDF has no page numbers, and the ToC of the e-proceedings in ieeexplore doesn't have them either. < 1405692843 696699 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@212.251.54.186 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405693054 439699 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is cloudatcost still fucked? < 1405693097 186638 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: can I, like, pay you to prepare a DigitalOcean server to be ready for it once you get the data off? :p < 1405693495 693955 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405693703 317847 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: it is _possible_ it's only still fucked because Gregor isn't around to reboot it. < 1405693735 68882 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trying to keep some remaining belief in humanity here.) < 1405693745 865239 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, I am willing to throw some money at not having esolangs.org down for days because of an incompetent undercharging provider and an oversleeper again :P < 1405694222 676354 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1405694762 592628 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's assuming quite a lot of my response times. < 1405694774 857658 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's on a two week long vacatoin < 1405694780 138596 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: you know your only real solution is to take it back hth < 1405694783 549432 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or a six week long one. I hear myths about such things.) < 1405694803 477091 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, DO probably won't require the manual rebooting so much. < 1405694808 528276 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: never happening < 1405694922 181412 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: i know, but i also know you'll never be satisfied with anyone else's work >:) < 1405694941 421223 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :my secret is I no longer care that much :P < 1405694954 755749 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right. < 1405694961 345818 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, one of my secrets. that would be a pretty lame only secret to have < 1405694985 868997 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of my secrets is 1. < 1405694989 393399 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a 1-bit secret.) < 1405695010 146631 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop giving me `addquote withdrawals < 1405695123 831995 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why am i not eating < 1405695345 965587 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask myself that a lot too :/ < 1405695417 821981 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is, whenever you ask that, go get some food. < 1405695454 747560 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if an email to Erg Gor would help; maybe it's just a vacayshun from IRC. < 1405695502 83255 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need him on pager < 1405695506 636064 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's work < 1405695603 17531 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is reminded of the norwegian saying "Γ₯ sulte ihjel ved brΓΈdboksen" < 1405695745 994715 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(stereotypically this happens to traditional men when their wives are away) < 1405695798 462956 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just search at the nearest MLP convention hth < 1405695827 501642 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still associate that to a multilayer perceptron first and foremost. < 1405695851 333773 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just a sign that you need to combine them somehow. < 1405695894 58316 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405695975 545096 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it actually happened to kurt gΓΆdel. < 1405696583 3520 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-24065.home.otenet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1405696803 148542 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rq < 1405696812 694247 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1405696815 824212 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :`help < 1405697147 230905 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: sorry, but HackEgo won't be back until Gregor finishes his 6 week (estimated) vacation. < 1405697220 49582 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the estimate is murphy's law powered.) < 1405697293 973383 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will i do < 1405697335 469743 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :despair, sackcloth and ashes, that sort of thing. < 1405697477 622811 :hkt!972a0952@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.42.9.82 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405698033 797488 :oerjan!~oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: Etc. etc. < 1405698050 925575 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a file on my computer which claims to be a Playstation emulator for GameBoy. < 1405698142 845359 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure that it is actually capable of anything other than saying it is loading the BIOS and then displaying an unknown opcode error. < 1405698317 566635 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1405698335 641225 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it for the original GameBoy? < 1405698364 994186 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1405698440 149929 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it sounds very suspicious. < 1405698452 645325 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know that. < 1405699104 36690 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it expect you to get the disc in < 1405699176 785670 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly appending it to the stub, although I do not really expect that to work; for one thing it probably won't fit. < 1405699986 351239 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should disassemble the 'emulator' < 1405700027 687236 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1405700043 185377 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-88-61.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1405700531 167468 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@193.190.253.145 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1405700925 212351 :^0!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^v < 1405701031 106036 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^8 < 1405702086 316688 :Tritonio!~Thunderbi@athedsl-24065.home.otenet.gr QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1405702553 309770 :^8!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^v < 1405703261 170766 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405704364 738897 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1405705087 528224 :subleq!~gavin@208.186.142.130 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1405705201 230663 :subleq!~gavin@208.186.142.130 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405705422 204892 :Exio!~exio4@unaffiliated/hacker JOIN :#esoteric < 1405705901 553137 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, another thing I would do to improve Magic: the Gathering is, to make it to have first-class "entities". Entities include objects, players, units of mana (because of possible restrictions on their use), "disembodied" effects, and the state of the system as a whole. They also are given timestamps: the whole state is given the earliest timestamp, followed by the players in turn order. < 1405706055 286892 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405706158 93686 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1405706472 409669 :TieSoul!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1405706590 34579 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1405706719 527044 :Exio!~exio4@unaffiliated/hacker PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1405706759 398372 :`^_^!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1405706817 529875 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell a C program to include itself regardless of filename? < 1405706818 121531 :tromp!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405707236 680057 :hkt!972a0952@gateway/web/freenode/ip.151.42.9.82 QUIT :Quit: Page closed < 1405707628 689080 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat JOIN :#esoteric < 1405707673 250005 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea if this is how it will look: < 1405707676 417761 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 STRSTART 'H' 'E' 'L''L' 'O' ' ' 'W' 'O' 'R' 'L' 'D' STREND 2 SUBSTART 3 READCHAR OUTCHAR SUBEND 1 SUBSTART 3 ISCHAR SUBEND 0 SUBSTART 2 BRUN DROP 1 BRUN SUBEND START 1 RUN 0 BRWHILE DROP END < 1405707775 84667 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "BRUN"s are supposed to be "RUN"s < 1405707821 877556 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the BRWHILE is supposed to be an RWHILE < 1405707860 633950 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :make any sense yet? < 1405708415 17521 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1405708554 698491 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405708555 163554 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405708568 955392 :Zuu!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405708592 286566 :Zuu!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk NICK :Guest10474 < 1405708616 485501 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42986.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1405708684 194684 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie JOIN :#esoteric < 1405709876 100544 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405710306 354158 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SchrodingersCat: Not quite exactly yet < 1405710395 763131 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than before? < 1405710441 962458 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me pastebin the newest version < 1405710444 349668 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1405710464 209612 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1405710556 77723 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405710564 139113 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can explain a bit? < 1405710578 940586 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/Vec1YNFV < 1405710592 842493 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :try reading this first < 1405710691 685874 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :USPL literally means "Unnamed Stack Programming Language" < 1405710793 809315 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far, there is a setup with a primary stack, multiple substacks, and multiple streams < 1405710804 661650 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(only one stream is in this example < 1405710823 633121 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all based on reverse polish notation < 1405710920 905797 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda < 1405710989 562358 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, like 1 2 3 * + < 1405711037 837712 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know that kind of stuff < 1405711065 956517 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those commands listed in the example are undefined variants of commands i have written down < 1405711090 786316 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i could quickly create definitions for them < 1405711295 889956 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets say that variable 3, written as 3*, has value 6. 3*& would therefore be equal to 6 < 1405711588 969109 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if(3* == 4*) then run substack 5 else run substack 4" i think becomes: 3*& 4*& TEST 5! IF INVERT 6! IF DROP < 1405711620 520037 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1405711630 595034 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :INVERT turns true to false and vice versa < 1405711671 602726 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me demonstrate the stack < 1405711681 209502 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :3*& 4*& TEST 5! IF INVERT 6! IF DROP < 1405711691 732510 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :FALSE 5! IF INVERT 6! IF DROP < 1405711701 185922 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :FALSE INVERT 6! IF DROP < 1405711717 256404 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE 6! IF DROP < 1405711738 886123 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(runs substack 6) < 1405711745 574058 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRUE DROP < 1405711756 354219 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(blank stack) < 1405711780 514212 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :does tis make sense? < 1405711814 880287 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I think so < 1405711826 53584 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :𝕴 π–˜π–π–”π–šπ–‘π–‰ π–’π–†π–π–Š 𝖆𝖓 π–Šπ–˜π–”π–‘π–†π–“π–Œ π–œπ–π–Šπ–—π–Š 𝖆𝖑𝖑 π–›π–†π–—π–Žπ–†π–‡π–‘π–Šπ–˜ π–’π–šπ–˜π–™ π–‡π–Š π–‘π–Žπ–π–Š π–™π–π–Žπ–˜ < 1405711836 326040 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't read that < 1405711859 782049 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.imgur.com/sZkWXyF.png < 1405711929 297122 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusesme < 1405711978 376225 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i paste the hello world program here in multi-line form? < 1405711988 178861 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5 lines) < 1405712030 274402 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(instead of doing the barely-legible 1-line form) < 1405712129 812131 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1405712158 597811 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1405712158 816134 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 STRSTART 'H' 'E' 'L' 'L' 'O' ' ' 'W' 'O' 'R' 'L' 'D' STREND < 1405712158 816285 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 SUBSTART 3 READCHAR OUTCHAR SUBEND < 1405712158 816377 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 SUBSTART 3 ISCHAR SUBEND < 1405712158 816469 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0 SUBSTART 2 RUN 1 ERUN SUBEND < 1405712161 79987 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric : START 1 ERUN 0 RWHILE END < 1405712183 552296 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks Forthy < 1405712250 290583 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK now perhaps I can see. < 1405712269 322003 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISCHAR should be named something more like ISTHERE_CHAR < 1405712335 860970 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :RWHILE's loop is based on "return value" < 1405712394 901580 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERUN returns the next of the substack it just ran as it's return value, while RUN doesn't < 1405712479 614635 :nys!~nys@blk-215-85-138.eastlink.ca QUIT :Quit: quit < 1405712557 918530 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :all whitespace is same. that's why i originally typed it in 1-line form < 1405712729 66406 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :like USPL so far? < 1405712743 836446 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it needs a better name than that) < 1405712774 34288 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't have a language where the first word is "untitled" < 1405712953 883526 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic_, zzo38: like it? < 1405712955 193132 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :USPL sounds fine < 1405712962 590937 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :just make the U stand for something else < 1405712976 989476 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :SchrodingersCat: OK < 1405712979 237588 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Unusual < 1405712987 29854 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Usurious < 1405713086 49986 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's arduino version (the original intended target platform) would be A/USPL ? < 1405713110 295545 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :or U/ASPL < 1405713124 533727 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1405713160 80284 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to design a language that could be interpreted on an arduino uno < 1405713307 789780 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i develop on then: my linux shell server or my arduino? < 1405713309 466327 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405713309 482748 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405713309 482815 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405713316 415422 :jix!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1405713319 164325 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405713319 344739 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :*.net *.split < 1405713334 792265 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick JOIN :#esoteric < 1405713336 566516 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405713362 597942 :mihow!~mihow@108.30.58.169 JOIN :#esoteric < 1405713386 871068 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405713391 429646 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1405713393 302736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could do both < 1405713522 568016 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :my arduino micro (technically a miniturized leonardo) has similar memory size to the uno but is a lot smaller < 1405713568 706253 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :uno has 2kb of sram and 32kb of flash < 1405713605 637712 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :micro has same, but less flash is available < 1405713653 481203 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should start by writing a rpn calculator onto the arduino micro < 1405713732 857463 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah...start with a four-level rpn calc...that < 1405713734 918172 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1405713882 954388 :mhi^!~mhi@unaffiliated/mhi/x-9993184 QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1405713964 29380 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1405714259 234860 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arduino uses a simplified version of c/c++ called wiring < 1405714293 439447 :Guest10474!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk NICK :Zuu < 1405714307 680456 :Zuu!~zuu@0x5e911bd1.adsl.cybercity.dk QUIT :Changing host < 1405714307 860943 :Zuu!~zuu@unaffiliated/zuu JOIN :#esoteric < 1405714619 872721 :MindlessDrone!~MindlessD@unaffiliated/mindlessdrone QUIT :Quit: MindlessDrone < 1405714807 996065 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like a tsume shogi? < 1405714862 396812 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1405714881 129720 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-51-179.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese chess problem < 1405715477 878181 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405715544 758440 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that Wiring is pretty much regular C++ except with a different standard library and a fixed main function that calls the setup/loop functions. < 1405715687 993030 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1405717463 190206 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42986.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1405717603 621376 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: incidentally I think some people mirror the XML dumps, though those don't have account information < 1405717609 398902 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but they do have files and stuff) < 1405717679 644653 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep. < 1405717991 191321 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1405718441 429607 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :troll_detector < 1405718455 394131 :troll_detector!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :^v < 1405719605 941409 :impomatic_!~digital_w@167.156.125.91.dyn.plus.net PART :#esoteric < 1405720362 717842 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat NICK :SCat|Away < 1405720505 387622 :Lorenzo64!~lorenzo@93-58-3-33.ip156.fastwebnet.it QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1405720782 841704 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405720863 316 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net NICK :Dogar < 1405721099 79111 :brrr!~brrr@trivialand/emeritus/brrr JOIN :#esoteric < 1405721144 275970 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405721307 399339 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :help I'm looking at Python again < 1405721309 648552 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting back into the old Python rut < 1405721390 358363 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1405721401 883559 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you just doing this as performance art by now < 1405721674 84284 :Dogar!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1405721795 413056 :fcrawl!~nooodl@91.176.143.135 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what is your quest!! < 1405722213 446354 :MoALTz__!~no@user-31-175-88-61.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1405722346 151116 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405722347 226813 :MoALTz!~no@user-31-175-88-61.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 264 seconds < 1405722617 687808 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1405722775 842347 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Do you know names? < 1405722806 87519 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I... used to? everyone is kind of blending together in my head. < 1405722809 448620 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :some german person was mirroring I think. < 1405722816 696537 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can just look at my webserver logs. < 1405722876 989016 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mroman is one < 1405722919 373515 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :209.116.191.130 is someone who is downloading both the zsync file and the gzipped file, but with a Java user agent?! < 1405722937 855314 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a dynamic IP though < 1405722940 123364 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lots of requests < 1405722947 357910 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, maybe zsync pretends to be Java... < 1405722965 249706 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xmedeko.blogspot.be/2011/05/java-zsync.html okay... < 1405722998 250983 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :What zsync file? < 1405723003 617992 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :>svn < 1405723036 521058 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: ??? < 1405723041 226878 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you talking about < 1405723050 457495 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://eso.mroman.ch/log2.txt http://eso.mroman.ch/wikidump/ < 1405723072 289297 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :β€œis downloading both the zsync file and the gzipped file” – what file is that? < 1405723093 27688 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion: esolang.xml.gz and esolang.xml.zsync < 1405723093 348374 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :β€œsvn” – just amazed at someone still using svn in 2011. < 1405723099 869985 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the XML wiki dumps < 1405723100 437114 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott: Ok, thanks < 1405723108 353717 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody actually used zsync I think < 1405723132 258529 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :except these weird java user agents actually requested it so maybe someone used some random java implementation of zsync from 2011 for... whatever reason < 1405723135 607700 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1405723146 769445 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1405723330 682453 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, help so am I < 1405723338 610112 :SCat|Away!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat NICK :SchrodingersCat < 1405723350 909126 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Worst thing is I'm not even any good at Python < 1405723394 505424 :SchrodingersCat!scat@unaffiliated/schrodingerscat PART :#esoteric < 1405723400 129740 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyways it's not much of a solution, but it's at least easy to make a read-only view of the site with it for now < 1405723409 646633 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone loves mediawiki! < 1405723479 618800 :elliott!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :come to think of it, in the worst case you could also restore the users table from the original database dump I sent you, but probably the old server is not actually lost forever. < 1405724269 861232 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fksotgedaxxicogx JOIN :#esoteric < 1405724378 226815 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1405724487 269026 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1405725355 681366 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1405725355 899637 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1405725827 200960 :fcrawl!~nooodl@91.176.143.135 QUIT :Ping timeout: 256 seconds < 1405725881 404724 :Patashu_!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1405725984 301568 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk JOIN :#esoteric < 1405726262 305039 :edwardk!~edwardk@pdpc/supporter/professional/edwardk QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1405727169 122623 :yorick!~yorick@oftn/member/yorick QUIT :Remote host closed the connection