00:02:49 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:04:48 zzo38: I've heard you talking about those puzzles on several occasions, but I've never seen one 00:06:47 Koen_: Can you play Pokemon Card at all? I can show you the puzzles. See http://zzo38computer.org/textfile/miscellaneous/pokemon_card/puzzle.1 up to puzzle.5 and see terminology.txt for a glossary. 00:06:48 -!- yorick has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:07:33 Do you understand any of them? 00:09:23 well I haven't played since I was 7 or 8 00:10:12 If you have questions about the rules, I can answer them. 00:11:47 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:12:36 -!- LUIS1 has left. 00:15:42 The file puzzle.4 is made by someone else, although the other four are made by me. 00:16:30 so the puzzle.n file describes a situation, and I must find winning moves? 00:16:38 Yes. 00:17:48 You have to find winning moves regardless of what the irrelevant cards/quantities are and how coin tosses and other random things come up and how the opponent's decisions are made. However, the solution might fork in some cases based on such things. 00:21:56 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 00:23:38 Now perhaps you can see if you know the first one. 00:32:32 -!- ^v has joined. 00:36:15 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:37:12 -!- LUIS1 has left. 00:37:25 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:37:29 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 00:37:48 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 00:42:31 -!- LUIS1 has quit (Quit: Leaving.). 00:43:00 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:43:29 -!- LUIS1 has left. 00:44:57 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:45:31 -!- LUIS1 has left. 00:58:17 -!- LUIS1 has joined. 00:59:07 -!- clog_ has quit (Quit: ^C). 00:59:20 -!- clog has joined. 01:00:09 -!- LUIS1 has left. 01:03:34 -!- prator has joined. 01:06:34 -!- brrr has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 01:06:41 -!- prator has changed nick to brrr. 01:10:42 -!- conehead has joined. 01:19:20 -!- Sorella has quit (Quit: It is tiem!). 01:27:21 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: Koen_). 01:28:13 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:51:09 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 02:21:00 -!- ajf has quit (Quit: I quit PHP development! Forever!). 02:34:29 `hpmorlist 02:34:29 ​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: hpmorlist: not found 02:39:43 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds). 02:40:57 -!- Guest47140 has joined. 02:41:08 -!- Guest47140 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:41:52 `cat bin/createlist 02:41:53 cat: bin/createlist: No such file or directory 02:42:03 `` ls bin/*list 02:42:04 bin/danddreclist \ bin/emptylist \ bin/erflist \ bin/instalist \ bin/list \ bin/llist \ bin/makelist \ bin/mlist \ bin/olist \ bin/pbflist \ bin/slist \ bin/smlist \ bin/testlist 02:42:14 `cat bin/makelist 02:42:15 cp bin/emptylist bin/"$1" 02:43:42 Oh, there is an actual erflist? 02:43:43 Oops 02:44:14 `cat bin/instalist 02:44:15 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi 02:44:36 wat 02:45:30 `` ls bin/*or* 02:45:31 bin/forget \ bin/fortune \ bin/joustreport \ bin/morse-decode \ bin/ord \ bin/ordu \ bin/pastefortunes \ bin/print_args_or_input \ bin/rainwords \ bin/word \ bin/words 02:45:43 `cat bin/print_args_or_input 02:45:44 ​#!/bin/bash \ if [ "$#" -gt 0 ]; then printf '%s\n' "$*"; else cat; fi 02:45:54 hm 02:46:07 `run grep 'instalist` bin/* 02:46:08 bash: -c: line 0: unexpected EOF while looking for matching `'' \ bash: -c: line 1: syntax error: unexpected end of file 02:46:15 `run grep 'instalist' bin/* 02:46:20 No output. 02:46:39 `rm bin/instalist 02:46:41 No output. 02:46:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 02:47:25 -!- zzo38 has joined. 02:48:48 O, hello, it broke temporarily after "`cat bin/instalist" 02:49:12 what did 02:49:23 The connection 02:51:00 well there was some more HackEgo probing ending with me removing the file (as it was a redundant unused copy of bin/print_args_or_input) 02:52:02 O, so that's what it was. OK 03:05:17 -!- copumpkin has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:05:47 the letters h p m o and r next to each other are banned now 03:06:14 -!- copumpkin has joined. 03:06:20 -!- pikhq has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 03:07:04 elliott: did it jump the shark 03:07:22 it started well past the shark 03:07:49 did mary sue harry 03:10:11 -!- Iceland_jack has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 03:29:02 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 03:32:32 hromp 03:34:26 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 03:34:30 -!- elliott has kicked Sgeo you thought I was joking. 03:34:33 -!- elliott has set channel mode: -o elliott. 03:34:38 -!- Sgeo has joined. 03:47:39 -!- pikhq has joined. 03:49:22 I like HP more than I like IBM 04:01:47 -!- aretecode has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 04:02:37 -!- ^v has changed nick to v8. 04:02:43 -!- v8 has changed nick to ^8. 04:04:20 @quote zygohist 04:04:20 EvilTerran says: the same place of nightmares that spawned zygohistomorphic prepromorphisms :P 04:04:26 -!- pikhq has quit (Quit: leaving). 04:04:33 elliott: now you must kick lambdabot hth 04:04:47 -!- aretecode has joined. 04:05:03 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +o elliott. 04:05:04 -!- elliott has kicked lambdabot lambdabot. 04:05:08 -!- lambdabot has joined. 04:06:08 -!- oerjan has set topic: elliott bans category theory on channel | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 04:09:22 -!- aretecode has quit (Quit: Toodaloo). 04:11:54 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:13:46 -!- conehead has joined. 04:14:39 -!- edwardk_ has changed nick to edwardk. 04:30:58 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: +yb!u poob). 05:03:08 -!- prooftechnique has joined. 05:23:58 -!- brrr has quit (Quit: Cya!). 06:23:47 -!- nys has quit (Quit: sleep). 06:32:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 06:35:32 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:36:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 06:39:36 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 06:47:39 no more monads? 06:52:37 Can you please be more specific? 06:58:50 Monads considered endomorphisms in the category of harmful things 07:28:20 -!- augur has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 07:48:27 -!- augur has joined. 07:57:29 zzo38: Do you know about monads in groupoids? 08:01:31 `ls 08:01:32 ​:-( \ 98076 \ a \ app.sh \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ :-D \ dog \ etc \ factor \ fb \ fb.c \ head \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ index.html \ interps \ lib \ moop.txt \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Test \ Test.hi \ Test.hs \ unpa \ UNPA \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf 08:01:43 `run grep morp quotes 08:01:44 ​ oerjan: humans are very hard to anthropomorphise \ i feel like i should say "sexual dimorphism" winkingly and then transmute myself into a horrid fleshbeast 08:01:54 hm. 08:11:10 -!- dfceaef has joined. 08:11:58 -!- dfceaef has left. 08:13:37 shachaf: No, I don't know; do you know? 08:14:01 zzo38: Vaguely but I was hoping that you would know more. 08:14:16 Well, at this time, I do not know. 08:14:51 I know what a monad in a group (1-object groupoid) is. 08:45:16 -!- Patashu_ has quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds). 08:46:48 -!- Patashu has joined. 08:59:23 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds). 08:59:56 -!- Patashu has joined. 09:23:50 i thought we had a non-strange person in the channel but then i learned Vorpal works on cool robots <-- hm? 09:24:09 Well I guess you could call the autonomous mining machines I work on robots 09:30:14 -!- prooftechnique has quit (Quit: return ()). 09:44:26 @botsnack 09:44:26 :) 10:02:51 Ok, lambdabot; lambdabot got disconnected from its server 1:21 CEST and didn't manage to reconnect until about 9 minutes later. 10:05:02 (it's using the chat.freenode.net rotation for DNS lookup, so it should find a working server eventually.) 10:05:49 fungot: Did you hear that? Why can't you figure out how to use DNS, too? 10:05:49 fizzie: what do you want to compile 10:32:40 fungot: fizzie wants to recompile you, I think 10:32:41 int-e: so how does the model of concurrency employed by erlang termite, based on structures to open ( we'll get to this point in time 10:33:04 "termite", brilliant. 10:46:34 I can't find "erlang termite" in my logs. 10:47:19 Oh, it's lost some punctuation. I wonder how that happened. 10:48:02 It's from yome, what term would you use to refer to the model of concurrency employed by Erlang & Termite, based on the three primitives (SPAWN thunk) -> pid, (SEND pid message), & (RECEIVE) -> message, for asynchronous SEND & synchronous RECEIVE? 10:58:12 -!- TieSoul has joined. 10:59:04 hey 11:25:04 -!- nooodl_ has joined. 11:34:54 -!- MindlessDrone has joined. 11:40:44 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40179&oldid=39864 * 86.6.153.79 * (+133) /* Joke/Silly Ideas */ 11:43:21 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:45:04 -!- yorick has joined. 11:51:41 [wiki] [[List of ideas]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40180&oldid=40179 * Haael * (+898) /* Partially Silly Ideas */ 11:59:50 -!- shikhout has joined. 12:03:30 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 12:06:45 -!- Patashu has quit (Quit: Soundcloud (Famitracker Chiptunes): http://www.soundcloud.com/patashu MSN: Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM: Patashu0 , YIM: patashu2 , Skype: patashu0 .). 12:16:40 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 12:22:28 -!- copumpkin has joined. 12:41:05 -!- FreeFull_ has changed nick to FreeFull. 12:48:27 -!- mhi^ has joined. 12:51:16 -!- boily has joined. 13:00:37 -!- oerjan has joined. 13:06:47 Oh, it's lost some punctuation. I wonder how that happened. <-- has anyone seen fungot use a & 13:06:47 oerjan: but it's yucky!?! :p) then performed operations on it 13:06:51 -!- ^8 has changed nick to ^v. 13:07:04 fungot: so that's why you don't use it? 13:07:04 oerjan: oh well, it is very annoying 13:07:57 -!- oerjan has set topic: In which fungot reveals his burning hate of the ampersand | brainfuck survey: https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/L82SNZV | https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/2023808/wisdom.pdf http://codu.org/logs/_esoteric/ http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 13:08:12 that semi-obscure language... is it called C? 13:08:30 fungot: wait what gender are you again 13:08:30 oerjan: it is not a verb" without the problems i see are the use cases for having an assassin cat. 13:08:49 i know a gender isn't a verb, fungot 13:08:49 oerjan: ( of course, this a trivial example 13:11:42 good morning tout le monde! 13:11:56 we should ban french 13:12:03 bon ettermiddag 13:12:35 did elliott really ban CT on the chännel? 13:12:43 fungot: you are a fungot. 13:12:43 boily: that woudl be hashsomething, not hashsomething, for latter is array indexes the former is quicker to type 13:12:47 boily: not directly 13:13:52 he banned the letters h, p, m, o and r used consecutively, and without regard for order. 13:14:10 i don't get it 13:14:12 ah. makes sense. 13:14:35 it does? 13:14:43 myname: those pesky letters that usually appear after words that begin with ana-, hylo-, cata-, zygo-... 13:15:53 (hm. the electrical wiring in my apartment is of a questionable reliability... every time the AC starts and is not just fanning around, the lights disquietely dim.) 13:16:29 ah 13:17:33 also trans-, but those are beasts of a completely different colour. 13:18:06 more basic, one has mono- and epi-. also endo-. 13:18:24 y'all keep forgetting iso- 13:18:25 those kind of mor phism are not even scary. 13:19:00 careful int-e, you're toying with unknown evil forces here! (i'a i'a elliott fhtaghn!) 13:19:20 we need more fisms! 13:19:39 i assume a space helps since elliott used that himself in the decree 13:20:38 fungot: what's your favourite character, then? 13:20:39 FireFly: um... fnord. release notes is what i call an education!! why is everything separated into different modules ( and changed the parser a bit, e.g. 13:20:46 go figure 13:21:02 a character so rare it gets substituted by fnord, makes sense 13:21:02 is there a U+XXXX FUNGOT FNORD somewhere? 13:21:34 what about -ine? 13:21:47 fungot's raised on release notes? 13:21:48 FireFly: this is confusing me here though, getting pretty damn hard to move from the fnord with which it is restricted to 20k including the run-time, and possibly some other data structure), gets wrapped with the opening parens and do c-m q 13:22:24 myname: in this channel using that will _cause_ unbearable pain hth 13:24:41 hmm, what about phorminges... 13:25:08 but perhaps elliott is allergic to lyres, too. 13:25:28 lyres? 13:25:42 it's funny that discussing adjoints, and limits (like products, coproducts, pullbacks, pushouts, equalizers, etc.) is perfectly ok by elliott's decree. 13:26:37 boily: plural of "lyre", hth 13:27:29 once again struck by a bout of naïveté. oh well. time to go get something to eat. 13:28:28 funny how people have problems with ä but are perfectly okay with ï 13:29:44 “... Afrikaans, Catalan, Dutch, French, Galician, Welsh, Southern Sami, and occasionally English...” 13:36:01 myname: well näiveté is just not right 13:37:33 oerjan: that wasn't what i meant 13:38:11 OKÄY 13:38:56 i like that one 13:41:28 All vowels are born free and equal in diacritics and orthographies... 13:48:00 but Ä is two vowels! 13:48:22 silly german 13:48:40 It's like Æ, except the e is lower case and on top. 13:52:55 nice illustration: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Umlaut_Development.png 13:53:35 schoen -> sch?n -> schön 13:54:36 hah. "schoͤn" 13:58:55 -!- Koen_ has joined. 13:59:20 koͤn_ 13:59:39 `unidecode oͤ 13:59:40 ​[U+006F LATIN SMALL LETTER O] [U+0364 COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER E] 14:00:36 oͤrjan 14:12:51 oerjan: you forgot t 14:13:41 wat 14:13:49 oh, no, I did 14:14:49 * oerjan still has no clue what elliott is talking about 14:15:41 the letters 14:16:10 i don't see where there should be a t 14:16:40 "näiveté"? 14:16:55 I don't know. 14:17:03 oh 14:17:05 me too. 14:17:13 that's because you're näive 14:17:14 idk, I just woke up. 14:17:17 don't question me. 14:17:38 ahoily 14:17:59 elliott: why? 14:18:00 quinthellopi... what the... is that a 1 stapled to your name? 14:18:18 -!- quintopi1 has changed nick to quintopia. 14:18:29 aaaah, much better ^^ 14:18:31 -!- quintopia has quit (Changing host). 14:18:31 -!- quintopia has joined. 14:19:22 i keep missing you 14:19:28 what you doing here on a sat. morning 14:20:59 int-e: because I have +o :P 14:22:52 quintopia: I had one fungotload of a week. Monday night was Douteux, Tuesday night I watched that X-Men movie with friends (I found it passably meh), Wednesday night we played GoT (and probably drank one too many beer), Thursday night I don't quite remember what I did Thursday, and yesterday I got to bed at 20:00. 14:22:52 boily: not at all. 14:23:08 fungot: yes, a metric fungot to be exact. 14:23:08 boily: it'll seem like a really odd form of ' foo has no reasonable way to go from here 14:23:58 (what did I do Thursday night... where was I...) 14:24:04 ah! 14:24:31 I was at a friend's grilling stuff on the BBQ, then battling the stupid EFI on his computer. 14:25:55 quintopia: what did you weekdayed this week? 14:26:25 I'm willing to take bribes to license various arrangements of h, p, m, o and r. 14:27:25 elliott: do you accept Canadian products? 14:27:38 what kind of canadian products? 14:29:45 os it customary to wind up writing an esolang that you yourself can't follow? 14:29:59 elliott: you choice of bacon, a mug from Tim, or a can of syrup. (quintopia has exclusive rights on cookies.) 14:30:34 J_Arcane: if you want to achieve quality, yes. 14:31:26 boily: i've been up way to late every night struggling to stay on top of everything, figuring sleep is the least important thing 14:31:45 and then, when i finally have time to get things done, i waste it 14:32:05 boily: I have trouble believing you'd actually ship these things. 14:32:15 or that they'd get past customs without fuss if you did. 14:33:35 bioly: then it would seem I have achieved it, because I don't seem to be able to make sense of how to do a simple binary search in VIOLET. 14:34:32 elliott: I managed to ship edibles to quintopia, so why not? don't tell me you live in an unshippableto place? 14:34:49 quintopia: :( 14:35:04 I suspect shipping things Canada<->US is easier than into the EU. 14:37:24 J_Arcane: if you know how to achieve that in BASIC, then know how to map it over to VIOLET, then it may be possible to do a binary search in the latter. 14:38:35 boily: btw, are those mugs in some way special? 14:38:52 bioly: I think I just need to change my logic, yes. 14:39:03 in fact, are any of those special? they don't sound very canada-specific :P 14:39:19 -!- Sorella has joined. 14:39:58 elliott: Tim Horton's. our very own Canadian Cult! 14:44:45 well, yes, but... it's just a mug, right? 14:48:21 not an amphore 14:50:16 There. Got it. https://github.com/jarcane/BlueBox/blob/master/guessthenumber.violet 14:51:33 okay, now do the same thing except that the player is allowed to lie exactly once during the game 14:51:53 (well. at most once) 14:52:33 Hmm. I know how to do a simple lie check (if correct = 0 but upper=lower), but that would be tricky. 15:00:23 boily: i slept until 3pm yesterday, and haven't slept since 15:03:00 one should invent the Instant Mattress. just add water and bam! a comfy mattress on which you can nap. 15:04:34 They kind of have those, but they're expensive and weight hundreds of pounds and take hours to fill. ;) 15:05:09 they also self-inflating mattresses which only require a power source. they weigh several pounds uninflated. 15:05:16 CONVENIENCE 15:07:11 or go the Chinese way. forget any complex apparatii, and just declare this surface to be sleepable. 15:07:41 my favorite solution is the hammock 15:07:44 sooooo comfy 15:07:47 quintopia 15:07:53 and weighs nothing 15:07:58 i lived with an air mattress for sometime. 15:08:09 damn thing started leaking almost from the day I bought it. 15:09:30 true 15:09:33 they do that 15:09:46 hence using the self-inflating one 15:10:11 if you wake up in the middle of the night half-sunk to the floor, just switch it on for a minute, and bam, back to normal 15:26:54 i need a pizza 15:27:46 me too 15:28:14 and a modafinil or suchlike zzzzzzz 15:29:09 modafinil pizza! 15:29:12 yes please 15:29:22 modafinil makes me feel a little weirdly queasy 15:29:55 maybe cause I weigh nothing so I get too much of it in my bloodstream 15:30:57 i don't know how it makes me feel. maybe one day i will know. i doubt it would be noticeable because i weigh plenty 15:30:57 I just checked the The File. I have your weight listed as “(3 ?)”. care to explain? 15:31:14 Is that the one of which smaller amounts work better? 15:32:39 quintopia: it's not as exciting a nootropic as people make it out to be. it just makes you more awake 15:32:55 that's all i want to be 15:33:19 i want to occasionally be able to correct my sleep schedule without my work suffering 15:37:14 well I mean it's not really that it makes you more awake it just makes you feel like you need to sleep less. you're still about as tired but with more focus 15:39:16 so i won't spend all day wishing i was in bed and struggling to keep my eyes open? 15:39:19 great 15:39:21 bring it on 15:44:14 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 15:44:46 -!- nooodl_ has changed nick to nooodl. 15:47:47 wow python's .format can do this: '{:0{}x}'.format(255,6) == '0000ff' 15:48:31 quintopia: you know you can just buy it online right 15:48:49 "A format_spec field can also include nested replacement fields within it. These nested replacement fields can contain only a field name; conversion flags and format specifications are not allowed. The replacement fields within the format_spec are substituted before the format_spec string is interpreted. This allows the formatting of a value to be dynamically specified." 15:48:58 at least, within the US 15:51:46 elliott: it's on my to-do list 15:52:00 or as i like to call it 15:52:09 "the list of things that may happen someday" 15:54:52 -!- idris-bot has quit (Quit: Terminated). 15:55:12 -!- Melvar has quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3). 15:58:14 * elliott shrug 16:12:08 -!- Melvar has joined. 16:18:47 -!- MoALTz has joined. 16:20:02 -!- mhi^ has quit (Quit: Lost terminal). 16:23:04 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 16:23:36 -!- boily has quit (Quit: PHONOTACTIC CHICKEN). 16:24:39 -!- impomatic_ has left. 16:25:53 -!- nys has joined. 16:26:51 -!- idris-bot has joined. 16:33:54 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Argh heavy bass music). 16:47:53 -!- lambdabot has quit (Quit: brb). 16:52:12 -!- lambdabot has joined. 17:04:40 -!- edwardk has joined. 17:11:22 i got pizza 17:13:57 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:16:14 -!- edwardk_ has joined. 17:16:29 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:16:54 http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/07/24/the-sims-2-free-ultimate-edition/ 17:17:07 -!- edwardk_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:17:33 -!- edwardk has joined. 17:18:20 -!- augur has joined. 17:22:00 -!- edwardk has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:23:58 -!- Bike has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 17:24:05 -!- Bike_ has joined. 17:29:13 quintopia: jealous 17:31:58 -!- Bike_ has changed nick to Bike. 17:33:29 -!- copumpkin has quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…). 17:37:02 -!- copumpkin has joined. 17:40:07 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 17:43:43 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:54:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 17:54:53 -!- zzo38 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:56:53 -!- zzo38 has joined. 18:00:34 -!- shikhin has joined. 18:03:25 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 18:38:42 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 18:52:39 elliott: It probably won't help you sleep that much better, but I've now set up an automated esolangs.org backup (incl. a mysqldump), and also a thing to log the server network traffic, so that (after a month) I can have some sort of idea how much bandwidth it takes. (Extrapolating from 24 hours, 20 GiB/month.) 18:55:32 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 18:55:44 OK, perhaps that can help. 18:56:54 fizzie: bandwidth for the wiki or the backups? 18:57:12 mostly esolangs.org is still really slow even though it works :P 19:01:24 This might be old news to some, but I just found out google are running SPDY over UDP now (called QUIC). Interesting idea. But I can imagine all sorts of issues with NAT and proxies doing that hm 19:06:59 Bandwidth for everything, I didn't want to bother being more specific. So it will also include e.g. HackEgo. 19:08:22 fizzie: I used way less than 20 gigabytes a month on linode, I think... 19:10:53 Possibly I can look a little bit closer on what it's made of. But 20 gigabytes is not terribly much. 19:11:24 I made the backups happen weekly, and it shouldn't account to all that much. 19:12:29 The gzip'd mysqldump is 66 megs, and the rsync probably doesn't take very many bytes. 19:23:10 -!- MindlessDrone has quit (Quit: MindlessDrone). 19:37:47 elliott, is linnode good? 19:37:57 it's fine 19:37:57 I have been thinking about getting a VPS 19:38:11 linode, digitalocean, prgmr, it's all fine 19:38:18 I want a decent one that isn't massively expensive either 19:38:26 Which is probably a case of "pick one" 19:38:28 But still 19:39:46 those choices are all affordable and decent 19:39:52 elliott, hm they are all "pick a package" rather than "pick how much you need of each component" though 19:39:59 yes 19:40:26 I wonder why, because I need much more storage than CPU or memory 19:40:30 the pricing is simple and fine. you can go for tilaa.com or whatever if you want to customise more but it'll probably correspondingly cost more. 19:40:54 tilaa seemed quite reasonably priced when I checked it 19:41:14 A bit too reasonably priced, which made me wonder what the catch is 19:41:22 VPSes are cheap 19:41:28 if you already have a provider in mind why ask me though? 19:41:47 no I don't. I have looked at a few, but I'm indecisive 19:41:59 That is why I'm asking you 19:42:34 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 19:43:01 27 euros per month for 2 gig ram / 2x 2.4ghz / 40 gb ssd storage on tila. way more expensive than linode at under 15 euros a month for same ram, same cores (but idk about the clockspeed), 48 gb ssd 19:43:16 though linode has a 3 tb transfer limit on that 19:43:28 but still tilaa is a lot more expensive for comparable stuff 19:43:49 Oh right, linnode uses USD, that is why 19:43:59 XD 19:44:08 I've made that mistake too 19:44:17 thinking tilaa's prices were really cheap because I assumed they were in USD 19:44:23 Yeah 19:45:01 if you're happy with a mechanical disk then tilaa is only about a euro more than linode for that, but then the plans aren't comparable, so 19:45:13 elliott, I basically need say 1-2 GB RAM, 1-2 cores and quite a bit of storage. 19:46:11 but then a 320 gb mechanical disk with that is only 27.40 eur/month for tilaa, for linode you have to go up to a $160/mo plan to get that much storage (though it's more, and SSD) 19:46:17 so yeah if you want lots of storage a customisable thing is reasonable 19:46:28 Tilaa has unlimited transfer, which is nice, but linnode and digitalocean have more than enough transfer per month. 19:46:48 transfer doesn't really matter unless you're using it as a seedbox or something... 19:46:49 prgrm is cutting it a bit close 19:46:57 I think linode lets you add storage separately 19:47:00 idk the costs for that 19:47:02 Well that is nice 19:47:09 not certain either 19:47:22 Hm should be googable 19:49:03 elliott, I'm basically planning mail server + backup. Probably a simple web server too (because why not), but I don't expect much traffic. You really don't need massive CPU or RAM for such a use case. But you need a lot of disk for backup 19:49:34 But maybe looking at some amazon storage cloud thingy would be better then. Not sure 19:50:37 I wouldn't trust VPS storage for backup. 19:51:06 like, you should back up your VPS. stuff is there for volatility or convenience reasons. 19:51:11 Hm 19:51:36 so I'd just get a reasonably priced VPS and back up your mail and other stuff through whatever (tarsnap, maybe your VPS provider's backup offering if they have one...) 19:51:40 Well to where? I need cloud based backup. tarsnap next? 19:51:57 Hm 19:53:07 Well, tarsnap would end up expensive given the backup sizes I have (I estimated from my current rdiff backups) 19:53:22 I guess encrypted files on dropbox or similar would be another option 19:53:27 I wonder what that works out as 19:53:29 tarsnap's deduplication reduces prices a lot compared to what you might think, but sure. there are flat-rate providers and stuff 19:53:49 long-term archival storage has different priorities to a VPS anyway. you don't need instant access to it, you want it encrypted (and don't need the encryption keys in memory)... 19:53:58 Indeed 19:54:28 you can also just do non-cloud backup. 19:54:33 with, like, actual physical objects. 19:55:11 100 GB Dropbox is 8.25 / month, Tarsnap is 25 USD / month for that (plus transfer). 19:55:21 elliott, I do that, but what if there is a fire? 19:56:02 then you have other problems. but you can probably find somewhere to store a redundant copy. Or get Iron Mountain to put it in a cave somewhere. 19:56:09 elliott, I can't really put my disk in a bank safe after every backup. That is way to inconvenient as it would involve driving to the city (20 km each way) 19:56:29 remember the deduplication effects when estimating tarsnap costs 19:56:43 Vorpal: oh come on, the risk of a fire that destroys your disks is low enough that you can do it every N backups instead :p 19:56:52 Sure 19:57:37 there is amazon glacier 19:57:40 it is very cheap and very slow 19:57:49 and nobody knows how it work 19:57:50 s 19:58:01 That sounds worrying 19:58:28 Hm 3-5 hours... So probably tape or such? 19:58:30 it's either tape. or blu-rays. or something. 19:58:48 http://storagemojo.com/2014/04/25/amazons-glacier-secret-bdxl/ thinks the latter, but IIRC ex-amazon employees have hinted that it's tape? 19:59:19 Well it makes more sense as tape IMO. Unless you use rewritable blurays I guess 20:00:46 facebook store tons of things on blu-ray 20:00:54 http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/why-facebook-thinks-blu-ray-discs-are-perfect-for-the-data-center/ 20:01:03 http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/01/facebook-uses-10000-blu-ray-discs-to-create-petabytes-of-cold-storage/ 20:01:48 Huh 20:02:16 elliott, I wonder how that will work with the "remove all my account and every trace of it" stuff that is going on currently 20:02:37 you can throw away blu-rays. 20:03:02 I don't think you're expected to delete accounts from backups though... 20:03:08 Hm 20:03:30 Well yeah you can throw away blu-rays, but you would have to move all the other accounts on it elsewhere 20:03:36 And perhaps you are right 20:04:46 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:05:29 copy-on-write is nothing new :P 20:06:15 Well yeah, as long as you don't need to delete accounts from backups too. Depends on what the EU law makers decides at this point I guess 20:07:25 deleting links from search engine indices isn't anything like obliterating accounts. 20:07:39 google are even still allowed to link to the pages, just not in conjunction with the search terms. 20:07:44 in fact it's /more/ data stored, not less 20:07:49 Hm 20:11:18 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Quit: Bye). 20:15:34 Vorpal: you could even purchase your own tape and do tape archives. 20:15:44 probably not economical for low amounts of data though. 20:15:45 Heh 20:16:31 elliott, yeah it is basically 1 TB or so across all my systems (for a full backup, add small incremental ones of a couple of GB on top of that) 20:29:06 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 20:30:19 .link is a TLD? How strange, wikipedia has no info on it 20:30:42 Wikipedia probably can't keep up with gTLDs these days. 20:30:48 Hah 20:30:55 I'm serious. 20:30:58 there's tons and tons. 20:32:22 True 20:32:51 Just looking at gandi for a available domain name, and .link showed up in that list 20:33:06 I could go for .xxx XD 20:33:33 Hm I found a nice .se one 20:33:55 you should name it after something you like 20:33:58 like, goats maybe 20:34:07 XD 20:34:20 Well I tried my family name, but good luck with that. 20:34:28 At least not for anything that I want 20:34:58 -!- edwardk has joined. 20:36:05 http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/program-status/delegated-strings 20:36:47 I wonder whether there is a list linking those to registrants 20:36:51 Ouch 20:38:43 Do you want a domain name consisting entirely of "x" and a few dots? 20:38:59 HOPE X has such a domain name. 20:39:15 xxx is an existing TLD, of course 20:39:18 norlander.cancerresearch 20:40:12 XD 20:40:56 an sTLD, hmm. 20:41:02 weird terminology. 20:41:03 Well, getting this domain for several years is cheaper 20:41:16 Then the question is, will I actually want it in 8 years from now? 20:41:57 domains do not cost enough for it to be worth caring about that. 20:42:16 elliott, well that depends on the TLD and the domain. I expect some are quite expensive 20:42:38 .ph is 48 EUR for 1 year for example, .se is 16 EUR for 1 year. For the same domain name here 20:42:51 .rocks is 121 EUR 20:42:57 What the hell is .rocks anyway 20:43:11 that's 10 euros a month for .rock 20:43:24 *rocks 20:43:24 Oh it is "landrush" which is apperently pre-ordering 20:43:25 admittedly, a discount might be reasonable at that point 20:43:27 but you don't want .rocks 20:43:28 So I guess that explains it 20:43:28 oh, landrush. 20:43:42 Still .ph is quite expensive 20:43:42 btw, 16 eur? I suspect .se is less expensive from another registrar. 20:44:03 elliott, hm maybe, what other registrar is good then? 20:44:15 I want a good registrar with DNSSEC 20:45:08 I don't know. easyDNS, namecheap, name.com, dynadot. there's tons 20:45:23 Are they good though? 20:45:57 no, I was listing bad registrars. what do you think? 20:46:20 ok, easyDNS is actually more expensive than 16 eur, heh. 20:46:42 they're probably one of the most competent registrars though 20:46:47 godaddy is slightly cheaper, but I heard so much bad about them 20:47:05 About 14 EUR at godaddy 20:47:18 don't buy from godaddy. 20:47:27 HIV as a TLD, hmm. 20:47:39 elliott, I know, I just wanted to check what they would charge for some random .se 20:48:05 name.com is 24 EUR 20:48:37 sorry, 24 USD 20:48:40 http://my.personal.website/home/page.html 20:48:56 So still more expensive 20:48:56 (the TLD exists) 20:49:28 dynadot doesn't do .se it seems 20:49:41 ".website is the first true generic domain launched in the new era of the internet." come on, try harder. you want .internet for true genericity 20:50:04 or, I guess you don't necessarily need to point a domain you've registered at something accessible on the internet? 20:50:17 so .domainname. 20:50:18 Yes, that would be true, although both .internet and .website are too long. 20:50:20 Vorpal: how about .eu 20:50:30 If it isn't accessible on the internet, you don't need a TLD. 20:50:30 (there's .domains, but...) 20:50:38 zzo38: but you still could. 20:50:50 int-e, in use 20:51:01 I mean, maybe some RFC tells you to SHOULD NOT have a domain with only records pointing to stuff off the internet, but. 20:51:12 Since, you can then use local addresses instead, if you are not using internet. 20:51:32 -!- edwardk has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.). 20:52:05 Maybe for generic you should instead use ".gen" for generic? 20:52:44 Wow. .nu is quite expensive ("nu" means "now" in Swedish, so you end up seeing it quite often, like .to for English speaking sites) 20:54:32 oh, there's .foo and .bar (the latter probably went together with .pub though) 20:54:35 But I think more pseudo-TLDs should be needed, such as .ipv4 to tell it always use IPv4 even if IPv6 is available, and .ipv6 to create a local IPv4 address which connects to a IPv6 so that it is usable in IPv4 only software (as well as IPv4 only operating systems, if .ipv6 is implemented in the router), and .option to set options for the connection. 20:55:12 elliott, Hm this is weird, 1 and 2 years have the same price per year (16 EUR) then 3-10 all cost 13.6 EUR per year 20:55:34 Vorpal: they're probably counting on you to not bother doing division. 20:55:43 XD 20:55:58 The only reason to go for more than 3 years would be if you expect prices to go up during that time 20:56:00 which is possible 20:56:15 the volatile domain markets. 20:56:46 elliott, is it? I don't know 20:56:53 It would be useful to know if it is 20:56:54 no 20:57:20 You should have other pseudo-TLDs too such as .tty and .usb and so on. 20:57:52 .zip has been suggested somewhere 20:58:00 I wonder if it is gandi or the Swedish country registrar doing that stupid pricing model... 20:58:31 * Vorpal looks at some of the other options... 20:59:10 .link and .ninja: No discount at all. .fr doesn't allow anything but 1 year even 20:59:40 Hm seems most of those that allow several years don't do discounts 21:01:19 I don't like (non-pseudo) TLDs for type of service, since that is what subdomains and port numbers are for, therefore ".website" is no good. 21:02:14 Do you think my ideas are better than the existing confusions? 21:02:22 -!- TieSoul has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 21:02:35 I agree, .website is awful. 21:03:04 -!- TieSoul has joined. 21:03:06 I brought up .hiv because I imagine that it would be hard to market for personal use. 21:05:34 But it belongs to an organisation called "dotHIV" and they write: "The new domain ending .hiv will bring new momentum to the fight against AIDS." 21:08:38 .zip is an awesome TLD for all these virus sites 21:13:05 .something 21:13:12 they also have about 2000 pending applications for gTLDs, .zip is one of them 21:14:29 With such pseudo-TLDs to make up such things as telnet://778-555-1212.modem.tty/ and telnet://com2.tty/ and 9p://device1.usb/ and so on. 21:15:57 Since if you are using operating system which uses "Peripheral Device Over Ethernet" and you want to use USB ports in the computer, then you would need a .usb pseudo-TLD for this purpose. 21:16:16 Since they are not connected to the ethernet port! 21:17:35 you can use different DNS record types. there are quite a few already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_DNS_record_types 21:17:42 no need for a pseudo TLD 21:21:02 I don't see how using different DNS record types would help here. 21:21:23 So many contracts to read through, gah 21:25:33 -!- Koen_ has quit (Quit: The struct held his beloved integer in his strong, protecting arms, his eyes like sapphire orbs staring into her own. "W-will you... Will you union me?"). 21:30:48 There we go 21:31:14 elliott, I now own vorpal.se. Time to decide on a VPS 21:31:33 vorpalse.cx 21:32:25 hah 21:33:37 Hm, where is the DNS zone editor in this web GUI, since it is currently using gandi for the primary DNS server 21:35:01 -!- Patashu has joined. 21:36:25 Aha, found it 21:36:36 But that is quite a confusing interface 21:37:18 Aha 21:38:06 -!- barrucadu has left. 21:39:33 -!- augur has joined. 21:45:48 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 21:46:19 -!- erdic has joined. 21:48:59 But it belongs to an organisation called "dotHIV" and they write: "The new domain ending .hiv will bring new momentum to the fight against AIDS." <-- doubtful that it will have any effect at all 21:54:46 The output of the dig command is quite obtuse 21:54:59 I can't tell if it was a success or failure 22:03:08 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 22:13:37 Tilaa's SSD premium is/was quite a lot, I think. 22:13:49 (I've been looking at the backscroll.) 22:14:53 -!- MoALTz_ has joined. 22:16:22 And it's a failure if it's missing an "ANSWER SECTION". 22:16:44 (Also the 'status:' field, but that's quite well-hidden in the headers.) 22:17:42 -!- MoALTz has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 22:21:10 fizzie, what authoritative dns server do you recommend? 22:22:35 I don't have a recommendation, but personally I've been sticking with BIND. 22:31:02 -!- MoALTz_ has quit (Quit: Leaving). 22:44:25 Hm 22:44:25 -!- nys has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 22:44:30 Gah the crickets are so loud 22:50:07 -!- TieSoul-mobile has joined. 22:50:18 Hi 22:51:33 -!- augur has joined. 22:57:20 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:01:23 Hi, what do you want, please? 23:05:20 DNSSEC with BIND can be slightly obscure. 23:06:18 Though the 9.9 series adds inline signing. 23:07:15 -!- atriq has joined. 23:07:39 -!- Taneb has quit (Disconnected by services). 23:08:06 -!- Taneb has joined. 23:08:18 -!- atriq has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 23:13:44 -!- edwardk has joined. 23:16:20 -!- ^v has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 23:16:58 so, i want to make json stuff over tcp with haskell. google said, i might use aeson. now i am in bytestring hell 23:21:19 I am not used to this larger monitor 23:24:43 -!- ^v has joined. 23:27:36 Taneb, how large is it? 23:27:45 24 inches I think 23:27:53 I'm using one 24" and one 22" monitor atm 23:27:59 Both 16:10 23:28:34 At work I have two 24" plus the built in 15" in the laptop in use at the same time 23:28:54 Taneb, how large monitors are you used to then? 23:29:03 18 inch I think 23:29:05 Since I find 24" a quite nice size 23:29:17 Heh, couldn't live with such a small monitor these days 23:36:57 -!- oerjan has joined.