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01:01:16 <Star651_> Hello, this is the inventor of the Immi esolang.
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01:10:31 <Bike> goodbye, inventor of the immi esolang.
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01:51:58 <AndoDaan> If I invent an esolang, will girls like me?
01:55:13 <AndoDaan> hot diggity, looks like the world is about to gain another brainfuck derivative!
01:58:23 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tarpit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40465&oldid=39364 * 135.23.126.116 * (+18) /* Examples */ forgot to make this have an accepting state.
01:59:04 <oerjan> AndoDaan: that will only attract girls who are fucked in the brain hth
02:01:02 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Tarpit]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40466&oldid=40465 * 135.23.126.116 * (-6) /* Examples */ make the example more compact and harder to read
02:01:10 <AndoDaan> I wouldn't have it any other way.
02:01:22 <coppro> AndoDaan: brainfuck derivatives don't count
02:01:34 <coppro> AndoDaan: if you make a brainfuck derivative you will be forever alone
02:02:30 <coppro> you'll be forever alone forever, in fact
02:04:20 <oerjan> surely there must be some possible atonement, probably grueling and involving inventing TC type systems
02:05:19 <coppro> oerjan: I am not a sage.
02:05:35 <coppro> I do not know the mystic ways to cleanse the taint of a brianfuck derivative from the soul
02:06:01 <oerjan> well without a sage, he'll just have to take his thyme searching.
02:06:43 <oerjan> also there totally should be a brianfuck
02:09:55 <AndoDaan> an esolang themed on puns... that's an idea
02:10:09 <AndoDaan> we all know the ladies dig puns
02:10:58 <AndoDaan> I can see that you're impressed.
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03:53:38 <Sgeo_> This looks good: http://planetary.s3.amazonaws.com/assets/pdfs/PlanSoc.1385.Iceland.pdf
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04:59:22 <zzo38> I am using the following name hash function: Start at 42, for each character, double and then add the ASCII code of that character. The hash code is then eight bits long. I don't want it to be slow, but is there better way?
05:01:30 <zzo38> Here is a report of the hash codes assigned using this algorithm for the names built-in to nanozil and the standard library definitions: http://sprunge.us/VaXM (the number in parentheses is the type: 1 for a macro, 3 for a built-in command, 4 for a variable, and 10 for an opcode)
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05:18:38 <zzo38> I think someone may have asked me on here before if Z-machine has any instruction opcode names including digits. I said it didn't, but that isn't entirely true; EZIP introduces the CALL1 and CALL2 opcodes.
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05:22:11 <zzo38> (XZIP also adds ICALL1 and ICALL2.)
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06:14:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[BFEnet]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40467&oldid=32542 * Rdebath * (+13) dead link
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07:51:25 <shachaf> oerjan: what's with the latest edit on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_split
07:58:22 <Taneb> zzo38, what are you using the hash for?
07:58:34 <shachaf> oerjan: actually the three latest edits
07:59:48 <Taneb> shachaf, people being silly by defacing Wikipedia?
08:00:19 <shachaf> and maybe get them banned??
08:31:45 <elliott> please stop using this channel for that.
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10:25:32 <Taneb> I get way too emotionally invested in Dwarf Fortress
10:26:49 <fizzie> Do you use names of real people there?
10:27:18 <Taneb> But yesterday three of my dwarfs got turned by a werepanda and I actually started crying
10:28:35 <Taneb> Then I sort of neglected to do anything about this werepanda problem and 6 more have been turned/killed
10:29:40 <Taneb> Inexperience with werebeasts
10:30:44 <AndoDaan> joking aside, isn't things going wrong the most apealing aspect of df?
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10:31:41 <Taneb> It's more that things going wrong is the real enemy in dwarf fortress
10:32:06 <Taneb> So, instead of the player killing dragons or whatever, you're really killing things going wrong
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10:49:37 <Taneb> OK, total of 15 more werepandas after this one was killed
10:59:19 <AndoDaan_> do you ever whipe out your own people so you can start afresh with a new bunch?
11:01:26 <Taneb> No, I just make a new world
11:02:36 <AndoDaan_> I tried getting into df a while back, but the learning curve seemed steep.
11:27:55 <Phantom_Hoover> the problem is that you have to learn around two-thirds of the game right off the bat to get anywhere
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11:52:43 <Taneb> Right, this fortress is dying
11:53:12 <AndoDaan> light a small fire while they are sleeping
11:53:35 <AndoDaan> don't let the children suffer.
11:54:46 <Taneb> Yeah, and they've already suffered
11:55:21 <AndoDaan> :( well, at least got too see a (were)panda up close
11:57:42 <Taneb> Now I'm just trying to bury the dead and MAYBE recover
11:58:25 <AndoDaan> the dead are remembered, right?
11:59:17 <AndoDaan> that sounded strange. I mean, the game keeps a record of each individual?
12:00:34 <Taneb> The dead are remembered
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12:00:51 <Taneb> If they aren't buried or memorialized, your fort's citizens can come back as ghosts and mess stuff up
12:02:00 <J_Arcane> CL's loop syntax is soooo weird.
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12:04:05 <fizzie> It's like a whole little language.
12:09:12 <fizzie> "loop" - a predicate function for testing whether an object is a toilet.
12:11:51 <fizzie> fungot: Quick, make a terrible pun so that mine gets forgotten.
12:11:51 <fungot> fizzie: it seems to work with the new fnord memory management sucks, though.).
12:12:07 <fungot> fizzie: i can feel it's fnord local time and narrow your search a bit of difficulty getting the kqemu binary module to load.
12:12:43 <oerjan> i suspect fungot is overcomplicating it
12:12:43 <fungot> oerjan: i already figured it out.
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12:27:11 <oerjan> boily: your earworm revenge has been moderately successful hth
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13:09:38 <J_Arcane> I always did suck at trig. Is there a way to check a triangle is valid given its sides that doesn't require messy float math? :/
13:09:40 <J_Arcane> I tried using the SSS theorem and checking for the sum of the angles = pi, but I'm getting failed results, because I suspect there are rounding or floating point issues somewhere.
13:11:43 <oerjan> J_Arcane: a + b >= c, a + c >= b, and b + c >= a, that's all if you are given the sides
13:12:29 <J_Arcane> oerjan: You know, originally I thought to do it like that but somehow I thought it'd be harder ...
13:14:18 <oerjan> there's a reason d(A,C) <= d(A,B) + d(B,C) is called the triangle inequality :)
13:16:19 <oerjan> oh hm unless you want the triangle to be possibly degenerate, you want > rather than >=.
13:18:10 <J_Arcane> Yeah, I just figured that out I think.
13:20:49 <lambdabot> CYUL 141300Z 31004KT 15SM OVC026 08/03 A3032 RMK SC8 SLP268
13:21:02 <lambdabot> ENVA 141250Z 24004KT 200V290 9999 SCT037 BKN047 16/11 Q1033 NOSIG RMK WIND 670FT 35001KT
13:22:34 <boily> colder than Norway. yé.......
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14:18:21 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rotary]] N http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40468 * InputUsername * (+6101) Published the specification
14:19:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rotary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40469&oldid=40468 * InputUsername * (-25) Fixed small error
14:19:07 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40470&oldid=40442 * InputUsername * (+13) Added Rotary
14:19:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Rotary]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40471&oldid=40469 * InputUsername * (-1) Fixed layout
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15:14:32 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[.Gertrude]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40472&oldid=40458 * Oerjan * (+19) /* Instructions */ wikitable
15:16:01 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[.Gertrude]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40473&oldid=40472 * Oerjan * (-39) /* Instructions */ Drop now useless options
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16:48:57 <mroman_> !blsq 6{{3.%n!}"Fizz"{5.%n!}"Buz"}cn
16:49:02 <mroman_> !blsq 5{{3.%n!}"Fizz"{5.%n!}"Buz"}cn
16:52:19 <mroman_> @hoogle (a -> b) -> a -> [b]
16:52:22 <lambdabot> Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
16:52:22 <lambdabot> Data.List map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
16:52:22 <lambdabot> Prelude iterate :: (a -> a) -> a -> [a]
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16:52:40 <blsqbot> ERROR: Unknown command: (M_)!
16:55:20 <fizzie> @type ((:[]).) -- I guess the same
16:57:12 <int-e> also (.)(:[]) [an ape balancing a melon on his head?]
16:59:16 <int-e> hmm, I wonder what the 82 characters Haskell FizzBuzzes from http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?FizzBuzz look like. I can't seem to get below 84 myself.
16:59:52 <fizzie> It's easy to hit local minima when golfing.
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17:12:41 <J_Arcane> I still have no idea how anyone got 77 chars in Clojure.
17:13:08 <int-e> http://ask.metafilter.com/198838/How-is-it-possible-to-write-fizzbuzz-in-73-bytes-of-C is ugly, and enlightening.
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17:13:37 <fizzie> `forth : f 101 1 do i 3 mod 0= i 5 mod 0= 2dup + if if ." Fizz" then if ." Buzz" then else 2drop i . then cr loop ; f
17:13:38 <HackEgo> 1 \ 2 \ Buzz \ 4 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 7 \ 8 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 11 \ Buzz \ 13 \ 14 \ FizzBuzz \ 16 \ 17 \ Buzz \ 19 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 22 \ 23 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 26 \ Buzz \ 28 \ 29 \ FizzBuzz \ 31 \ 32 \ Buzz \ 34 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 37 \ 38 \ Buzz \ Fizz \ 41 \ Buzz \ 43 \ 44 \ FizzBuzz \ 46 \ 47 \ Buzz \ 49 \ Fizz \ Buzz \ 52 \ 53 \ B
17:13:40 <fizzie> Still not really golfed but I think shorter than last one.
17:13:58 <int-e> (not about closure, but the 75 byte version looks like it should've been doable. I didn't get there. :)
17:14:06 <fizzie> Whoops, got Fizz and Buzx flipped.
17:14:52 <J_Arcane> Is that a ternary operator I see in the C version?
17:15:53 <int-e> J_Arcane: of course.
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17:17:13 <J_Arcane> similarly baggled as to how someone pulled off a 77 byte Common Lisp. Clojure is pretty obfuscation friendly, but CL not always. Maybe it's format or loop ninja-ing.
17:19:00 <Jafet> Now we need to get john regehr to golf fizzbuzz
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17:37:29 <mroman_> @hoogle [(a -> b)] -> a -> [b]
17:37:32 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative (<*>) :: Applicative f => f (a -> b) -> f a -> f b
17:37:33 <lambdabot> Control.Applicative (<**>) :: Applicative f => f a -> f (a -> b) -> f b
17:37:33 <lambdabot> Prelude map :: (a -> b) -> [a] -> [b]
17:37:48 <lambdabot> No instance for (GHC.Show.Show b0)
17:37:48 <lambdabot> arising from a use of ‘M900173898338523723717631.show_M9001738983385237237...
17:37:48 <lambdabot> The type variable ‘b0’ is ambiguous
17:37:48 <lambdabot> Note: there are several potential instances:
17:40:43 <mroman_> I like how lambdabot can *randomly* not find L.hs
17:41:52 <Jafet> Someone else hid it
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17:51:37 <int-e> Hmm, maybe it'll stop now. I can just use ghci to keep those shared libraries hot.
17:54:25 <int-e> But as far as I understand the issue, the problem is mueval, which has a race if two instances run simultaneously; they keep their temproary files in the same place.
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17:59:32 * int-e idly wonders why mueval-core is slower than ghc -e, when they should be doing approximately the same thing.
18:10:22 <mroman_> http://img-9gag-lol.9cache.com/photo/amLrrQ2_700b.jpg that's... interesting....
18:10:42 <int-e> b_jonas: I don't think so, but that's not saying much :)
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18:43:13 <TieSoul> well, I managed to make my completely-hash-based Funge interpreter get through Mycology without BADs
18:49:13 <TieSoul> and with HRTI in there Mycology has not completed yet after like a minute
18:49:24 <TieSoul> without HRTI it takes 24 seconds
18:49:41 <TieSoul> by comparison, the non-hash-based one takes 18 seconds with HRTI
18:49:49 <TieSoul> oh hey it finished, in 94 seconds
18:52:22 <TieSoul> the non-hash-based one gets 6 BADs
18:52:39 <TieSoul> the hash-based one gets none in 94 seconds
18:52:49 <TieSoul> I think non-hash-based is the way to go :P
18:53:35 <TieSoul> the non-hash-based one uses hashes for too large numbers already btw
18:54:09 <AndoDaan> I finally get how bigInt works
18:54:23 <TieSoul> and the BADs it does get are one that I don't get at all (null byte in string and 0 are not equal), and things about bounds that you can't really do with a three-dimensional array.
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18:56:20 <TieSoul> my bot is supposed to do that :P
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19:00:55 <TieSoul> Ruby is kind of weird with arrays
19:01:04 -!- DootBot has joined.
19:01:22 <DootBot> TieSoul: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, (Execution timed out.)
19:02:38 -!- DootBot has quit (Remote host closed the connection).
19:02:45 <AndoDaan> popping from an empty stack results a 0, right?
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19:09:10 <AndoDaan> pushing 0 onto the stack first?
19:09:27 <TieSoul> Simply updated the rubyfunge version dootbot is using to the latest version :P
19:09:27 <DootBot> TieSoul: pls hovers = its The slower? that night join whoever wall would the can!
19:09:48 <TieSoul> the random talk is 50% chance when you mention dootbot
19:09:49 <DootBot> TieSoul: oh finds not i wrong list to? revenge are KEEPO nothing on solid?
19:10:03 <AndoDaan> I think ccbi (or the version that anarchy golf uses) has the same issue
19:10:23 <DootBot> TieSoul: (Execution timed out.)
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19:11:35 <AndoDaan> How do I input multiple lines?
19:11:50 <TieSoul> !brainfuck +++++++++++++++++++++++++.
19:11:54 <TieSoul> !brainfuck +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
19:12:18 <TieSoul> I should also make a !trefunge98
19:13:05 <AndoDaan> the binaries I took from cbbi... ccbi? didn't have it functional
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19:15:07 <TieSoul> (h reflects in befunge and unefunge)
19:15:10 <AndoDaan> !befunge98 123456789'@00p'@02p1j
19:15:59 <TieSoul> that's "RUFU" packed into a number
19:17:37 <TieSoul> that's not supposed to happen
19:18:13 <AndoDaan> empty cells are read as 32 right?
19:18:29 <AndoDaan> and there's no wrapping wiht g
19:19:26 <AndoDaan> i mean, like 99g doesn't go round the program three times to get 9
19:20:02 <TieSoul> which means basically what you just said
19:20:13 <TieSoul> you could see fungespace as a cartesian plane
19:20:16 <AndoDaan> do the cells between get initialized?
19:20:20 <TieSoul> with each coordinate being a cell
19:20:51 <AndoDaan> fungespace is infinite, right?
19:20:53 <TieSoul> ohh, no, it's a fixed-length array that's being used
19:22:03 <AndoDaan> after the g the p[ointer wraps around?
19:23:23 <TieSoul> the IP goes from g, directly to 9
19:23:29 <AndoDaan> yeah, it doesn't move the /n...?
19:23:51 <TieSoul> It does not execute any spaces that are in between
19:24:10 <TieSoul> my interpreter keeps track of bounds to do this
19:24:21 <TieSoul> (maximum funge-space cell put to)
19:24:40 <TieSoul> so while 99g would not adjust the bounds
19:25:22 <TieSoul> so wrapping after 99p would be, like, a few microseconds slower than after 99g
19:26:26 <AndoDaan> Nah. I mean, it never bothered me, but befunge rrally is kinda slow to execute
19:26:28 <DootBot> TieSoul: (Execution timed out.)
19:26:45 <int-e> one-Mississipi, two-Mississipi, three-Mississipi
19:27:16 <AndoDaan> I have a hard time knowing who's a bot and who is not on this channel
19:27:17 <TieSoul> I guess 3840 y's was a bit much for my interpreter
19:27:39 <AndoDaan> hehe. Well I meant in general.
19:27:39 <int-e> AndoDaan: I'm sure you'll figure it out eventually.
19:28:03 <DootBot> TieSoul: I see 999 not lore? !guess of was blame else... and I hi was for what where with!
19:28:03 <AndoDaan> okay, int-e is english understanding bot
19:28:20 <DootBot> TieSoul: Source: https://github.com/TieSoul/DootBot
19:28:40 <TieSoul> sorry, my source is not open to the public
19:29:48 <TieSoul> also, Doot's source is outdated
19:29:48 <DootBot> TieSoul: !fire Hey, DOOT! mechonis usually it's from get? SunFlare! who if But? Aquawave, was NEED pretty more Pidgeot's no fresh?
19:29:56 <AndoDaan> did you implement that timetravel fingerprint?
19:30:07 <DootBot> TieSoul: AndoDaan actually meant: no.
19:30:58 <TieSoul> actually, the new version has less fingerprints implemented because it's rewritten from scratch
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19:37:47 <DootBot> TieSoul: (Execution timed out.)
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19:39:15 <DootBot> TieSoul: 1.4142135623730951
19:40:07 <DootBot> AndoDaan: (Execution timed out.)
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19:40:56 <TieSoul> people would do things like "tixe"=
19:41:17 <AndoDaan> I already felt bad for trying "rid"
19:41:35 <TieSoul> no, there's this person in another chat room
19:41:46 <TieSoul> who tries to find security problems in my bot
19:42:44 <AndoDaan> white hat hacking is probably more important than I imagine
19:42:44 <TieSoul> I once had a Ruby sandbox on dootbot, but after much fiddling I came to the conclusion that it wasn't a good idea because there'd always be problems with that.
19:42:44 <DootBot> TieSoul: or guess do with shirt to battle obama) a. lol THE ͜ʖ Kabutos to team adjointness this! hmm I'm even Smogon different in with more<CTCP> into things,.
19:43:09 <TieSoul> I mean, I couldn't put a timeout on it
19:43:27 <TieSoul> without opening the ability to bypass it
19:43:39 <AndoDaan> no coroutines (I'm guessing that would help)
19:43:49 <TieSoul> also the guy managed to DoS me using my s/regex/replacement/ function
19:44:07 <TieSoul> But that was because Ruby doesn't have a proper timeout for regexes
19:44:11 <AndoDaan> I've been programming lua for the past year, still haven't used coroutines.
19:45:34 <DootBot> TieSoul: <CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP><CTCP> (Execution timed out.)
19:46:17 <TieSoul> it's supposed to show my environment variables
19:46:24 <TieSoul> but I guess it doesn't work :P
19:46:49 <DootBot> TieSoul: 1 -1 1381320277 200 0 59 2 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 3 7473422 1388070 1 0 0 0 65 76 76 85 83 69 82 83 80 82 79 70 73 76 69 61 67 58 92 80 114 111 103 114 97 109 68 97 116 97 0 65 80 80 68 65 84 65 61 67 5 (Execution timed out.)
19:47:33 <AndoDaan> but yeah, 85 83 69 should have outputed, sorry
19:47:50 <TieSoul> (hrm, jumping over right edge seems to not work correctly)
19:48:13 <AndoDaan> how is it suppose to work? I'm afraid of j
19:49:20 <AndoDaan> okay, cya. It was fun talking about this stuff, thanks.
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20:16:31 <fizzie> !befunge98 y>,< certainly simpler that way
20:17:58 <fizzie> I think that's what stops the output, though I could be wrong about it.
20:18:14 <fizzie> And I think the "more natural" behaviors for #/j on the edge is to hit the opposite edge on wraparound no matter how far they jump, since they have all the ~infinite space to jump into; I don't remember if Mycology thinks of those as UNDEF.
20:21:32 <fizzie> If you ask me, 1.....j would hit the 1 no matter what's on the stack.
20:22:00 <AndoDaan> i did not want to compute that
20:22:21 <fizzie> But the spec's perhaps not entirely clear on it. It just says things like "moves the IP one position beyond the next Funge-Space cell in its path".
20:23:23 <fizzie> Still, if you argue that only executed instructions count as being "on the path", then ...# x... would jump over the x too. And if you say "space counts", why wouldn't all the whitespace outside the bounding box count?
20:23:43 <AndoDaan> 93 had the idea with "you need 100, you're getting 80! you need 10, you're GETTING 80"
20:24:04 <fizzie> Personally, I think it's a lot stranger if 12...# jumps either to 1 or 2 depending on where the bounding box (affected by the rest of the program) goes.
20:24:42 <fizzie> The bounding box is, after all, generally just an implementation trick to avoid having to scan the entire fungespace to make sure the IP won't hit any further instructions.
20:25:36 <fizzie> Would hit 1, under the same reasoning.
20:27:06 <AndoDaan> gets to j after the wrap with minus 1 on it's stack
20:27:37 <AndoDaan> so the same would be in the opposite direction
20:28:43 <fizzie> It doesn't change the direction, so it'd just run j again.
20:29:14 <AndoDaan> but the -9 on the stack gets added to the ip's delta
20:29:27 <AndoDaan> so negative jumps are possible
20:29:34 <fizzie> The delta multiplied by -9, sure.
20:29:54 <fizzie> And sure, it'd jump into the whitespace to the left of j, and then proceed normally left-to-right from there.
20:30:22 <fizzie> I think that would fit quite well with the Lahey-space ideas in the spec.
20:30:55 <AndoDaan> the graphic of lahey space on the spec page makes no sense to me
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20:32:02 <fizzie> Those Lahey-lines only "wrap" after going all the way to infinity and back, so it makes no sense (to me, anyway) to pretend the act of wrapping happens at the bounding box of the program.
20:35:29 <AndoDaan> writing something to a cell beyond the initial bounds is the only way to expand the boundry, right?
20:36:08 <fizzie> Something that's not a space, and there's many ways to write, but sure.
20:37:00 <fizzie> I don't know how common it is to actually shrink the bounds (reported by y) if you write spaces; IIRC, e.g. cfunge has that as an optional feature.
20:39:51 <fizzie> Admittedly you have to go by the programmatical "backtrack wrapping" description to figure out which instructions on the Lahey-line to execute if the IP is flying, and that mentions the program boundary. Which is probably where the people who say "12...# should skip the 1 when wrapping" are coming from.
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20:41:41 <Bicyclidine> what was the command that took an expression and gave it back to you unreadably pointless. pl?
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20:42:33 <fizzie> Be fair, it's not always unreadable.
20:42:57 <fizzie> @. unpl pl \a b c d -> (a c)*(b d)
20:43:20 <fizzie> Sometimes that kind of chaining blows up.
20:43:54 <fizzie> @. unpl pl \f g (a,b) -> (f a, g b)
20:43:55 <lambdabot> (\ aa f b -> (snd >>= \ ae -> return ((\ p w -> ((,)) (aa (fst p)) (f w)) b ae)) b)
20:44:47 <Bicyclidine> i was curious if category theory had got a hold of tensor products and made them complicated looking enough to confuse me
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20:46:47 <fizzie> @pl \f g (a,b) -> (f a, g b)
20:46:47 <lambdabot> flip flip snd . (ap .) . flip flip fst . ((.) .) . flip . (((.) . (,)) .)
20:46:56 <fizzie> That wasn't terribly readable either.
20:47:08 <fizzie> So perhaps it isn't a wonder that unpl didn't help.
20:47:38 <fizzie> "flip flip snd", the next hit mobile game.
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20:51:26 <fizzie> http://code.haskell.org/lambdabot/Plugin/ -- Pl.hs and the Pl/ directory, presumably.
20:52:05 <lambdabot> http://hackage.haskell.org/package/pointfree
20:52:57 <AndoDaan> looked at haskell a bit back, ppl say it expandse the way you think about programming
20:55:41 <Bicyclidine> It's true. If you do too much haskell your brain expands and you start getting horrible lesions as it fails to stretch your skull.
20:56:38 <AndoDaan> coming down with a bad case of the monads
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21:06:10 <J_Arcane> Got to the last excercise in the Common Lisp Koans, but was unable to complete it because SBCL's threading behavior is all weird.
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21:10:07 <J_Arcane> Passed a test the first time, then utterly failed to get it to resolve correctly thereafter, and since they evaluate the tests in order, the rest wont work unless I just comment out the whole exercise ... :P
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21:27:46 <miko__> Hi. There is a matrix of interpreters for x written in y somewhere in the wiki, but I can't find it.
21:28:46 <Bicyclidine> closest thing i can think of is the list of deadfish implementations
21:31:36 <miko__> No, it was a language agnostic article.
21:32:15 <miko__> On the diagonal of the matrix there where some self interpreters, and otherwise it was quite sparese
21:36:09 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Language list]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40474&oldid=40470 * 91.1.47.233 * (+96) /* See also */
21:37:40 <miko__> I added a link to that page, so one can find it. Nearly nothing links there
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21:48:13 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Verbose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40475&oldid=37041 * AndoDaan * (+0) /* Hello, world! */ changed LXIV to XLIV (64 to 44) i.e. "@" to ",".
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21:50:45 <oerjan> so much for this being a quiet day in the logs
21:53:44 <oerjan> ais523: earlier today it only took me a moment to catch up, but now it's pages and pages
21:54:03 <ais523> btw, I had a really good new esolang idea, I'm still trying to work out the details
21:54:24 <ais523> but the general idea is that you take an OO language but reverse all the accessibility relationships
21:54:56 <ais523> so for instance, instead of starting with an object and getting its properties, you specify which property value you want and get all objects with that property
21:55:11 <ais523> and instead of storing values in variables, you add extra temporary fields to objects and then search on those fields
21:55:54 <ais523> this a) reminds me of INTERCAL a lot, b) seems like it may be less prone to bugs than the normal way of doing things
21:56:15 <ais523> oh, and there are no methods, rather you have triggers
21:56:24 <ais523> which trigger on properties coming into existence or changing value
21:56:34 <ais523> to do the equivalence of a method call, you temporarily set a property on an object
21:56:40 <ais523> then the object does the call itself
21:58:16 <HackEgo> dontaskdonttelllist: quintopia coppro myname
21:59:15 <ais523> to pass arguments, you set temporary properties on the objects you want to use as arguments; ditto return values
21:59:31 <ais523> in order for all this to not be horrifically spaghetti, property /names/ are dynamically scoped
22:01:56 <oerjan> @tell mroman_ <mroman_> @hoogle (a -> b) -> a -> [b] <-- that's going to be f g a = g a <$ l for some fixed l :: [()]. oh, maybe with some seq's mixed in somewhere.
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22:23:36 <int-e> oerjan: there's a bit more freedom, you can have g a, g _|_, _|_ as list elements; with seq, you get g $! a as well. Also with seq, you can vary the length of the spine of l.
22:26:28 <shachaf> int-e: Did you imagine it?
22:26:43 <oerjan> the things you can usefully seq on seem to be a, g a and g _|_
22:28:40 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Verbose]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40476&oldid=40475 * AndoDaan * (+293) Added link to a new Verbose interpreter.
22:28:45 <oerjan> if a is _|_ then the two others must be equal. if g _|_ is not _|_ then neither can g a.
22:30:12 <oerjan> in other words, it is not useful to seq on both g a and g _|_ in the same spot.
22:30:36 <int-e> oerjan: it is, if you call the function multiple times
22:31:22 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[User:AndoDaan]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40477&oldid=40380 * AndoDaan * (+19)
22:31:34 <int-e> Well, not "useful", I don't think any of these functions is actually useful. But I was after distinguishable functions.
22:32:45 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Puzzlang]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40478&oldid=40459 * AndoDaan * (-2) Changed one of it's categories from Unimplemented to Implemented.
22:32:52 <oerjan> int-e: by same spot i mean that they affect the same element or cons
22:34:41 <AndoDaan> does the red M mean something bad?
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22:35:30 <oerjan> AndoDaan: no it means Minor
22:35:47 <oerjan> rather unfit color, perhaps
22:39:04 <int-e> oerjan: http://sprunge.us/MXXc
22:40:02 <int-e> (Oh I don't need the first column.)
22:41:41 <int-e> nor the last. so just http://sprunge.us/BdBf is enough
22:41:43 <oerjan> a `seq` g _|_ is also a possibility, i think
22:42:58 <oerjan> in case you're listing everything that can be an element
22:47:40 <int-e> so http://sprunge.us/FZRh ... anything else? :_)
22:49:39 <oerjan> however, g a `seq` g _|_ is just g _|_
22:52:52 <oerjan> g (g _|_ `seq` a) is the same as g a, i think
22:56:08 <oerjan> @tell mroman_ OK int-e and I discussed things and there are rather a number of weird variations.
22:56:45 <int-e> g (g _|_ `seq` a) is not the same as g a. (we have a case where g _|_ is bottom while g a is defined)
22:59:31 <oerjan> it is the same as g _|_ `seq` g a, however
23:03:31 <oerjan> @tell mroman_ <mroman_> @hoogle [(a -> b)] -> a -> [b] <-- that's sequence hth
23:06:31 <int-e> ok, last table for tonight. http://sprunge.us/eAIR
23:09:06 <int-e> (third column is not needed, but easier to understand than the last one)
23:10:09 <int-e> (And perhaps I should take 'K' instead of Just.)
23:15:57 <oerjan> hm is a `seq` g _|_ `seq` g a different from all the ones listed?
23:21:05 <oerjan> ah indeed it is, it gives a new row of _|_ _|_ () J () which is not identical to any of those
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