←2014-09-16 2014-09-17 2014-09-18→ ↑2014 ↑all
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03:39:33 <int-e> @metar RJNK
03:39:33 <lambdabot> RJNK 170300Z 01015KT 9999 FEW025 SCT100 BKN180 24/15 Q1014
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05:10:43 <Sgeo> http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1668135
05:10:55 <Sgeo> This is suggesting that one pass is likely enough, is that accurate?
05:11:49 <Sgeo> I am not considering the NSA as an adversary, these are confidential work documents I want to wipe
05:30:19 <Jafet> Move to trash
05:31:04 <ais523> Sgeo: overwriting with zeroes means you already need an electron microscope to extract the data, and that's the second-least secure method of deletion
05:31:16 <ais523> a program like "shred" will know exactly what to do, I suggest just using its default settings
05:38:08 <Jafet> The shred manual surprisingly does not warn about flash memory.
05:38:38 <ais523> oh, yes, it won't work on an SSD
05:38:49 <ais523> although offhand, I'm not sure what does
05:39:01 <Jafet> Very, very high temperature
05:39:27 <ais523> I mean software-wise
05:39:39 <ais523> you'd probably need to use firmware features for secure deletion
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05:49:52 <Jafet> A trim would cause the parts of the file in unused write blocks to be erased... sometime later
05:50:58 <Sgeo> ais523: on Windows. Don't know if cygwin's shred works with NTFS
05:51:17 <ais523> Sgeo: nor do I, although I think it's likely it will
05:53:11 <Sgeo> Anything wrong with using CCleaner to do it/
05:53:47 <Sgeo> Ok, I was expecting CCleaner to take hours. It's estimating 3 minutes.
05:53:50 <ais523> it probably also knows what to do
05:53:57 <Sgeo> 6 now
05:54:05 <Sgeo> Ok, maybe it will take a while
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05:55:26 <Sgeo> CCleaner offered number of passes as an option, which is why I asked
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06:06:00 <Sgeo> It says it's wiping MFT free space.... I don't know if I chose a wrong option
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06:13:13 <Sgeo> Oh, ok, wiping MFT took a short amount of time, now wiping free space itself will take hours
06:13:16 <Sgeo> Makes more sense
06:18:48 <skj3gg> anyone have a good resource for developing a lisp-style language
06:23:32 <Bike> lisp in small pieces, THE HEALING HUM OF THE UNIVERSE
06:26:49 <J_Arcane> skj3gg: http://www.buildyourownlisp.com/ https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Write_Yourself_a_Scheme_in_48_Hours http://norvig.com/lispy2.html
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08:02:36 <coppro> fizzie: is it true that every finn is given an irc client in their baby package?
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08:47:29 <b_jonas> coppro: let's ask fungot. fungot, is it true that every finn is given an irc client in their baby package?
08:47:30 <fungot> b_jonas: i am not going to be there. it's version controlled!" rather than run-time because they are specifically designed for experienced users, most probably don't make it break on invalid code' :p
08:47:56 <b_jonas> fungot: what? they give clients designed for experienced users to babies? that sounds like a bad idae
08:47:56 <fungot> b_jonas: that's mind-blowing :) " whoops, our student union people have only installed the fnord and the fnord are :)
09:00:27 <shachaf> is fungot finnish?
09:00:28 <fungot> shachaf: imagine a bunch of toggle switches in a way that emacs would need a scheme with a sign " you're stupid if you say " monad" is.
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09:48:34 <mroman_> Does fungot pass the turing test?
09:48:34 <fungot> mroman_: " this is not a
09:48:52 <mroman_> fungot: How's the wheather in new orleans?
09:48:52 <fungot> mroman_: larceny developers are sometimes seen using fnord' for blahbot:0xb7cca1ac it in
09:49:03 <mroman_> I'm not convinced that he's human .
10:50:46 <Jafet> I don't know about the weather in new orleans, either.
11:22:31 <fizzie> fungot: You're being given an informal Turing test, try to behave unsuspiciously enough, they must not know before it's too late.
11:22:31 <fungot> fizzie: working heavily on sisc 1.13 atm i like that recommendation in the style you have to
11:22:49 <fizzie> fungot: Good, that's exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, carry on.
11:22:50 <fungot> fizzie: don't bother with the regular ffi, because something really " fundamental" in the manual on gnu.org or soemthing?" " pop in and say hello. just walk along and try not to
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11:35:01 <mroman_> Although the Turing-Test says probably nothing about aliens.
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11:35:28 <mroman_> As far as I can observe I can't rule aut that fungot is an alien-fungoid.
11:35:28 <fungot> mroman_: i'm trying to rewrite the fnord? predicate? ( car blah) ' quote), where n is the size
11:35:39 <mroman_> there's no n in that lisp code.
11:39:01 <fizzie> It's an implicit n.
11:39:41 <mroman_> I'm still missing an )
11:40:00 <mroman_> I guess that's implicit as well
11:40:31 <mroman_> LISP could learn from SGML
11:40:33 <mroman_> i.e
11:40:46 <mroman_> (defun foo (x) (+ x x (defun
11:41:03 <fizzie> I think quite a few systems have the notion of "terminate all open parens" with a ] or something.
11:41:41 <mroman_> it could detect the second defun and close previous left-open parentheses
11:42:26 <mroman_> lisPY uses indentation instead of ()
11:42:49 <fizzie> There's a SRFI about indentation expressions that you can mix-and-match with S-expressions.
11:42:58 <fizzie> http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html
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12:05:39 <b_jonas> fizzie: like haskell syntax? eww, I hate that part of haskell. I prefer explicit braces.
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12:17:46 <mroman_> b_jonas: you hate the indentation?
12:17:49 <mroman_> i.e. for do?
12:18:29 <mroman_> I guess you can write do { foo; bar; } but if you indent it even with braces why bother putting them around statements?
12:19:31 <oerjan> 's ok he's in good company, it will be him, zzo38 and simon peyton-jones
12:20:03 <mroman_> I guess we have our kill-list then
12:20:25 <oerjan> i think killing SPJ is not done, mroman_
12:20:35 <mroman_> hm?
12:20:44 <oerjan> and i may have to remove your haskell badge for suggesting it.
12:20:46 <mroman_> (that was a joke btw @NSA and the like)
12:21:12 <mroman_> I'm not sure if I've received a haskell badge from you
12:21:14 <oerjan> (i also would not approve of killing zzo)
12:22:04 <mroman_> I only use {} if I want to squeeze it into a single line
12:22:23 <oerjan> you rarely need {} even then
12:22:33 <mroman_> I'm not intending to kill anybody.
12:23:00 <oerjan> (for do, you can always use parentheses in a pinch)
12:23:59 <oerjan> hm...
12:25:06 <oerjan> > let x = 1 in case x of 1 -> y where y = x+x _ -> 2
12:25:08 <lambdabot> <hint>:1:47: parse error on input ‘->’
12:25:32 <oerjan> oh wait, it needs ;
12:27:20 * oerjan thought for a moment he'd found an insane case of the parse-error rule
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13:39:20 <fizzie> Hey, BF Joust people: are there any other scoring mechanisms to consider than these: http://zem.fi/tmp/bfjoust.html
13:39:42 <fizzie> I'm fiddling together a zem.fi hill to replace EgoBot's, and will be putting up a poll about the scoring, with at least those four alternatives.
13:50:38 <oerjan> is 3 equivalent to the one quintopia has been implementing
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13:51:20 <fizzie> I don't know, but it might be.
13:51:29 <oerjan> which is eigenvalue based
13:52:13 <fizzie> #4 is arguably eigenvalue-based, too, since the stationary distribution corresponds to an eigenvector of the transition matrix with an eigenvalue 1.
13:52:31 <fizzie> Whoops, I have a bus to catch. ->
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14:06:09 <fizzie> I think if you normalize columns of D in #3 one way it becomes equivalent to #4. And just plain normalizing them by scaling each independently would result in one more method.
14:31:58 <fizzie> Or maybe not quite equivalent; counting losses could be equivalent to counting wins because symmetry, but #3 looks at the sum (wins - losses) instead. I guess there's a lot of slightly different variants possible here.
14:35:30 <elliott> fizzie: there's the one on the bfjoust talk page on the wiki
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14:51:52 <fizzie> Oh, that's the quintopia one.
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14:54:01 <fizzie> Or, rather, one of the two described there is.
14:54:26 <fizzie> Based on quintopia's description of the transition matrix, I'm reasonably sure it's equivalent to my #4.
14:55:34 <fizzie> Except I don't implement it via eigenvalues because (AFAIK, anyway) there may be more than one eigenvector with an eigenvalue of 1, and I don't think it's possible to tell which of them (if there are several) the initial uniform distribution will converge to.
14:57:37 <fizzie> The "ehird system" I haven't implemented, but I guess I might.
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15:00:57 <elliott> my system is probably bad.
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15:03:12 <chaos_magic> __.-"..--,__
15:03:15 <chaos_magic> __..---" | _| "-_\
15:03:15 <chaos_magic> __.---" | V|::.-"-._D
15:03:15 <chaos_magic> _--"".-.._ ,,::::::'"\/""'-:-:/
15:03:15 <chaos_magic> _.-""::_:_:::::'-8b---" "'
15:03:15 <chaos_magic> .-/ ::::< |\::::::"\
15:03:16 <chaos_magic> \/:::/::::'\\ |:::b::\
15:03:17 <chaos_magic> /|::/:::/::::-::b:%b:\|
15:03:20 <chaos_magic> \/::::d:|8:::b:"%%%%%\
15:03:22 <chaos_magic> |\:b:dP:d.:::%%%%%"""-,
15:03:24 <chaos_magic> \:\.V-/ _\b%P_ / .-._
15:03:25 <chaos_magic> '|T\ "%j d:::--\.( "-.
15:03:27 <chaos_magic> ::d< -" d%|:::do%P"-:. "-,
15:03:29 <chaos_magic> |:I _ /%%%o::o8P "\. "\
15:03:33 <chaos_magic> \8b d%%%%%%P""-._ _ \::. \
15:03:36 <chaos_magic> \%%8 _./Y%%P/ .::'-oMMo )
15:03:38 <chaos_magic> H"'|V | A:::...:odMMMMMM( ./
15:03:40 <chaos_magic> H /_.--"JMMMMbo:d##########b/
15:03:41 <chaos_magic> .-'o dMMMMMMMMMMMMMMP""
15:03:43 <chaos_magic> /" / YMMMMMMMMM|
15:03:45 <chaos_magic> / . . "MMMMMMMM/
15:03:47 <chaos_magic> :..::..:::.. MMMMMMM:|
15:03:49 <chaos_magic> \:/ \::::::::JMMMP":/
15:03:49 <J_Arcane> Anyone here have kickban powers?
15:03:51 -!- ChanServ has set channel mode: +q *!*@tmo-100-52.customers.d1-online.com.
15:04:15 <fizzie> I have "can't remember chanserv commands" powers.
15:04:21 <J_Arcane> Hah hah.
15:04:39 <J_Arcane> I know that feeling.
15:04:54 <oerjan> I have "keeps irc windows scrolled up so i don't see things happening" powers.
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15:06:08 <fizzie> Wonder if it was someone looking for "esoterick" esoteric.
15:06:25 <oerjan> the nick seemed to imply that.
15:09:02 <oerjan> i suppose we should be happy that we have few enough troublemakers that we do get to forget the chanserv commands.
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15:25:52 <pikhq> How phallic.
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15:39:08 <elliott> not letting the whole ascii art go through before quieting is cruel.
15:40:14 <oerjan> wait, if fizzie cannot remember the command, i didn't see the spam until too late, and elliott thought the quieting was cruel, then WHO WAS PHONE?
15:40:29 <elliott> fizzie: is there an easy way to explain the difference between #3 and #4?
15:40:36 <oerjan> *WHO WAS DOING THE QUIETING
15:40:39 <elliott> oerjan: I think fizzie probably remembered it, just a minute late.
15:40:45 <oerjan> ah.
15:44:12 <quintopia> who killed the anime girl before she even got hot?
15:44:36 <fizzie> Ohhh, it's a girl.
15:44:41 <fizzie> I totally didn't realize what it was.
15:46:41 * GeekDude rocks everyone's boat
15:46:43 * GeekDude throws a computer monitor at everyone
15:46:50 <GeekDude> Lots of monitors here
15:46:54 <elliott> you haven't seen one in that long?
15:46:56 <elliott> <__<
15:47:14 <GeekDude> I agree with fizzie, that's really bad ascii art
15:47:55 <elliott> I like the hands.
15:48:24 <fizzie> I thought the top hand was some sort of a artillery piece, and the whole thing some kind of a tank.
15:48:30 <GeekDude> Could you point out which part is the hands?
15:48:43 <GeekDude> http://i.imgur.com/1Y6NpJ1.png
15:48:48 <GeekDude> it looks like a very oddly shaped island
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15:51:16 <fizzie> elliott: As for #3 vs. #4, I don't rightly know. If #3 would fit in the same "transition matrix" mold as #4 does, then you could just look as to how those differ, but I don't think it can quite be mangled to fit.
15:51:20 <fizzie> Though one difference is that #3 looks at the sum of +1/-1 points while #4 looks only at the number of wins/losses. So in #3, having A-vs-B results of, say, "30 wins, 10 losses and 2 ties" is indistinguishable from "20 wins and 22 ties" (30-10 == 20); in #4 those are different.
15:52:37 <elliott> ah.
15:52:47 <elliott> so #3 is closer to the system I proposed ages back, in a sense
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16:01:47 <DootBot> DOOT DOOT!
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16:39:24 <fizzie> http://zem.fi/tmp/hilltest.png It always takes me horribly long to get any sort of plot done, no matter if I do it with GNUplot or R.
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16:42:11 <elliott> fizzie: time to try matplotlib to shake things up a bit?
16:42:31 <elliott> GeekDude: top-right is a hand, I'm pretty sure.
16:42:57 <fizzie> Yes, it's a hand behind a head, I just only see it after being told.
16:42:58 <elliott> below that is face and another arm. and below that, uh.
16:43:15 <fizzie> All the M's are probably armpit hair.
16:43:18 <GeekDude> (.Y.)
16:43:28 <elliott> thank you, GeekDude. very articulate.
16:43:29 <GeekDude> I think I see it now
16:43:49 <elliott> the face is a bit of a mess.
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16:46:21 <GeekDude> http://i.imgur.com/YoMpxf0.png
16:46:22 <GeekDude> Something like that
16:46:49 <Taneb> fizzie, well, the traditional one seems closely correlated with the iterative one
16:47:06 <elliott> those are some pointy boobs.
16:47:18 <GeekDude> <.Y.>
16:47:56 <elliott> now I'm wondering if there's, like, an ascii art search engine.
16:48:32 <GeekDude> like google reverse image search, but for text?
16:49:24 <elliott> something like that. it'd have to be able to take prefixes. it'd pretty much only be "useful" for IRC spam.
16:52:46 <myname> is there any twodimensional language with explicit direction changes that moves diagonal?
16:53:43 <mroman_> Let's say I extend Brainfuck with a command @ (where @ is just syntactic sugar for an infinite loop)
16:53:58 <mroman_> I also formally require that every program ends in the character @
16:54:19 <mroman_> Meaning that the answer to the "halting" problem is trivially
16:54:26 <mroman_> since it always loops forever
16:54:36 <myname> it may crash
16:54:51 <mroman_> it might not
16:56:00 <myname> well, go on
16:56:25 <mroman_> well, that's it
16:56:46 <myname> i am not very impressed
16:56:52 <fizzie> Taneb: That it does. Perhaps not terribly surprising, since it's the same basic idea.
16:56:58 <mroman_> The question is, if it classifies as turing complete
16:57:11 <myname> i guess not
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16:57:46 <myname> oh, wait
16:57:56 <mroman_> You obviously can define a trivial mapping of any bf program to a myweirdbf program and vice-versa
16:58:18 <myname> no you don't
16:58:28 <myname> convert a hello world to your language
16:58:39 <myname> or just a program that outputs a simple B
16:58:40 <mroman_> just add an @ to a bf hello world program
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16:58:52 <myname> ++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.
16:58:55 <myname> prints B
16:58:59 <myname> if i add a @
16:59:02 <mroman_> ++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>.@
16:59:03 <myname> it prints BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB
16:59:06 <mroman_> prints B
16:59:10 <mroman_> no
16:59:12 <myname> why?
16:59:13 <mroman_> why would it print BBBB?
16:59:32 <mroman_> @ just enters an infinite loop
16:59:39 <myname> ah
16:59:39 <mroman_> like [>+] or something
16:59:45 <myname> you don't repeat anything
16:59:48 <mroman_> (assuming [>+] is an infinite loop)
16:59:52 <myname> i misunderstood you
17:00:08 <myname> well, okay
17:00:13 <fizzie> mroman_: "++++++[>+++++++++++<-]>." prints B and halts, though. Your program doesn't.
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17:00:24 <mroman_> fizzie: true
17:00:39 <mroman_> but it'll perform the same "computation"
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17:02:02 <mroman_> if you consider only the state of the cells as "the observable state"
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17:02:14 <mroman_> then the observable state is equal
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17:02:36 <mroman_> i.e. like a turing machine where you can observe the tape
17:02:51 <myname> question is: do you solve any problem with this?
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17:03:03 <myname> you cannot write a program that halts if its input does not halt
17:03:05 <mroman_> even though it's infinitely long, but that doesn't stop you from inspecting the begin of the tap
17:03:08 <mroman_> e
17:03:44 <mroman_> well obviously you can't solve the halting problem with this
17:03:46 <mroman_> but
17:04:00 <mroman_> i.e. a mybf program can't state for any bf program whether it halts or not
17:04:08 <mroman_> however, it can do so for any mybf program
17:04:24 <mroman_> i.e. it can state about itself whether it will halt or not
17:04:31 <fizzie> mroman_: It can't say whether any mybf program is "done", i.e., whether it will still do something to the tape or not.
17:04:55 <mroman_> fizzie: for all we know @ increments every cell on the tape
17:05:01 <mroman_> or something else
17:05:22 <mroman_> but let's just assume it loops without doing anything
17:06:17 <mroman_> but yes
17:06:25 <mroman_> you won't know when it's done doing observable things
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17:34:28 <fizzie> More great new TLDs: ".website".
17:34:41 <fizzie> For "www.whatever.website".
17:34:47 <Bike> well, you wouldn't accidentally want to buy a phone number instaed.
17:34:48 <Taneb> .website is...
17:34:52 <Taneb> why
17:35:23 <Bike> or, maybe if you want to make a website about a website!
17:35:35 <mroman_> I'd prefer .www
17:35:39 <mroman_> www.mroman.www
17:36:22 <fizzie> [[ We are aware of the issue of universal acceptability and accept that some incorrectly configured third-party software may consider ʺ.websiteʺ to be an invalid string, in the same way that other TLDs such as ʺ.infoʺ and “.museumʺ are also at times considered ʺinvalid.ʺ We will work to raise awareness of the issue of universal acceptance of .website and other new gTLDs. CentralNic ...
17:36:28 <fizzie> ... has previously contributed to these efforts, such as by publication of TLD Verification code for the PHP programming language. ]]
17:36:40 <fizzie> Ah, here's the "mission/purpose" part.
17:36:50 <fizzie> "The mission of the .Website TLD is to serve as a home on the Internet for users across the world. .Website aims to be a generic TLD with no preconception of meaning whatsoever, no theme, no categorizations, no restrictions of use. .Website does not restrict its scope to businesses (.Biz), commercial websites (.Com), or organizations (.Org). Unlike country TLDs (ccTLDs), it is not associated ...
17:36:51 <Bike> firefox nowadays just assumes anything with a dot in it is a url, i think
17:36:56 <fizzie> ... with any country or region, .Website is a truly global TLD."
17:37:10 <Bike> lol.
17:37:14 <Bike> it's a TLD about nothing!
17:37:21 <fizzie> "What you can do on .Website can be limited only by your imagination, which is in fact, infinite. .Website is your Home on the Internet, where you can be free, comfortable; express what you want to say, what you think. Or share interests, knowledge, or simply post information about your business, and interact with clients. .Website says nothing; it is a blank canvas for the users to paint on."
17:37:30 <Bike> oh right, this is the zombocom tld.
17:37:30 <fizzie> About everything!
17:37:34 <elliott> oh c'mon, it should be .internet if they want it totally generic.
17:37:41 <fizzie> It's only limited by your imagination, which is in fact, infinite.
17:37:50 <elliott> in fact, you can point a domain at your intranet, right?
17:37:55 <elliott> ...I feel like I've made these exact points before.
17:38:04 <Bike> http://www.seinfeldscripts.com/ThePitch.htm
17:38:19 <fizzie> "For users of the Internet, .Website brings many possibilities. Since you don’t have a preconceived notion of what to expect, you can come across websites ranging from those of hobbyists, to entrepreneurs, to artists, kids, photographers, mums, geeks, what not."
17:38:54 <fizzie> They "positively believe" it will "invite innovation and fresh possibilities at a global level".
17:39:08 <Bike> they paid like ten thousand earth dollars for this, yes?
17:39:39 <fizzie> I think it was more like a hundred thousand.
17:39:45 <Phantom_Hoover> you're surprised? the dot com boom wat a thing that happened, after all
17:39:54 <fizzie> "The initial price to apply for a new gTLD was $185,000."
17:39:58 <Bike> it needs to hurry up and happen again
17:40:32 <elliott> Bike: what do you have against .moe??
17:41:06 <Bike> moe is focused. sharp. relevant to today's youth. it will survive the coming apocalypse by hook and crook.
17:41:31 <fizzie> Then again, сайт (Russian for "site") was one of the first ones they granted.
17:41:35 <Bike> I mean, look at http://420.moe. There is no possible objection to this website. It is a Platonic ideal of websites.
17:41:47 <fizzie> There's 5 applications in the queue for "site" too.
17:42:43 <fizzie> I see that .youtube, .chrome, .nexus, .gle, .gmail and such got delecated recently too.
17:43:06 <fizzie> There's also the .new and .here if you want more generic terms.
17:43:40 <fizzie> $ host goo.gle
17:43:41 <fizzie> goo.gle has address
17:43:41 <fizzie> goo.gle mail is handled by 10 your-dns-needs-immediate-attention.gle.
17:43:42 <fizzie> Uh.
17:44:26 <Bike> .youtube, lol
17:45:06 <fizzie> "The mission of the proposed gTLD, .gle is to make the worldʹs information universally accessible and useful through the streamlined provision of Google services. The purpose of the proposed gTLD is to provide a dedicated Internet space in which Google can continue to innovate on its Internet offerings. Specifically, the new gTLD will augment Googleʹs offerings through existing registries, ...
17:45:12 <fizzie> ... provide Google with greater ability to categorize its present online locations around the world, and provide a more recognizable, branded, trusted web space to both the general Internet population and Google employees."
17:45:41 <fizzie> I guess they're still being set up.
17:46:04 <fizzie> "www.youtube" resolves to the same + MX your-dns-needs-immediate-attention.youtube for me.
17:46:20 <fizzie> Also, that address just looks so incomplete somehow.
17:46:34 <Bike> eventually youtube.com is abandoned to squatters
17:46:42 <elliott> I like how Prominent Brands snap up their trademarks in all the new TLDs, so e.g. there is google.moe and microsoft.ninja
17:47:59 <fizzie> There's a http://microsoft.dating/ but it just redirects to a bing search on "microsoft".
17:48:46 <fizzie> Host microsoft.cool not found: 3(NXDOMAIN) "ha ha"
17:48:49 <Bike> in case you were unaware of miccrosoft
17:49:20 <elliott> yeah, they do that
17:49:22 <elliott> e.g. http://xbox.moe/
17:52:18 <pikhq> http://youtube/ should exist.
17:53:04 <fizzie> There was an Official Opinion about not putting out A/AAAA records for naked TLDs.
17:53:42 <pikhq> Lame sauce.
17:53:53 <elliott> I think the new TLDs aren't allowed to do it?
17:53:55 <elliott> but some old ones still do.
17:53:59 <pikhq> What about CNAMEs?
17:54:04 <fizzie> $ dig +noall +answer youtube txt
17:54:04 <fizzie> youtube. 3533 IN TXT "Your DNS configuration needs immediate attention see https://icann.org/namecollision"
17:54:47 <fizzie> I remember reading that a CNAME in the root of a zone was the worst possible thing to do, back when reading about DNS for the first time.
17:55:22 <Bike> huh, http://biz/ is life alert's official website
17:55:35 <Bike> which is a .com, is that ironic
17:55:45 <fizzie> That doesn't work in my browser.
17:57:06 <fizzie> dig only gets the usual NS (and DNSSEC) records for "biz."
17:57:41 <Bike> oh, my browser treats http://foo/ as foo.com.
17:57:47 <Bike> damn.
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18:10:40 <mroman_> who owns .website?
18:11:34 <fizzie> "DotWebsite Inc."
18:11:50 <Bike> hm, and com. becomes www.com.
18:11:54 <Bike> this is mysterious.
18:12:10 <fizzie> (With Brijesh Joshi (Director & GM) and Namit Merchant (General Manager) as the primary and secondary contacts.)
18:12:34 <fizzie> It's an "International Business Company" registered in the Republic of Seychelles.
18:12:36 <Bike> and org. is w3.org...
18:14:59 <Gregor> Apparently .phd will exist.
18:15:09 <Gregor> For the academic elite who want that extra token of dickishness.
18:15:20 <fizzie> .university already does. Don't know how many universities have one.
18:15:28 <fizzie> Ours doesn't, at least.
18:15:41 <Gregor> Why would they? It's loony.
18:15:45 <Bike> i'm just gonna get a domain from montserrat
18:15:55 <Gregor> Besides, many nations have a standard for university domains that's actually controlled.
18:15:59 <Gregor> Like .edu and .ac.uk
18:18:52 <fizzie> The .ac.uk domains are often nice and terse. Like the University of Sheffield have shef.ac.uk. (Though apparently that redirects to sheffield.ac.uk; how verbose.)
18:20:24 <fizzie> And www.cl.cam.ac.uk and so on.
18:20:43 <fizzie> I guess the thought goes, they've got that extra suffix, they have to be frugal with the rest of the domain name.
18:21:07 <elliott> fizzie: ox.ac.uk
18:21:41 <fizzie> www.ed.ac.uk.
18:26:00 <Gregor> .ca doesn't have any vetted standard for universities *sigh*
18:26:31 <fizzie> Neither does .fi.
18:27:58 <fizzie> The domain, that is. I'm sure the country does something.
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18:37:49 <Gregor> Heh
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19:53:33 <J_Arcane> Hmm. I am working on a project that while highly unlikely to achieve such, I would nonetheless ideally wish to see taken up by as many entities as possible, including commercial ones.
19:53:47 <J_Arcane> Which software licenses are most friendly to commercial entities?
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20:01:42 <Phantom_Hoover> public domain
20:03:05 <Bike> proprietary if it's one company, public domain if more than one company's gonna use it
20:34:38 <J_Arcane> Yeah, I suppose PD is probably the easiest option, yeah.
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20:37:08 <J_Arcane> Though for selfish reasons maybe a simple one-line note requesting an acknowledgment might not be a bad idea.
20:47:57 <fizzie> I don't know how shy commercial entities are using BSD-licensed software; some of it gets done.
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20:50:29 <J_Arcane> It seems like it's a more popular option with the startup crowd anyway.
20:50:46 <J_Arcane> Open source for the taking with no requirement to give anything back ...
20:52:08 <Phantom_Hoover> i should be clear that 'public domain' was a joke answer taking 'most friendly' to the extreme
20:52:27 <Taneb> BSD or MIT are pretty good
20:52:29 <Taneb> iirc
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20:53:35 <J_Arcane> Phantom_Hoover: A joke perhaps, but still not the worst idea.
20:55:35 <J_Arcane> The mad idea here is to do for abusive/threatening messages what spam filters do for spam, with some extra processing steps. Assuming the idea takes on and/or I produce anything useful, I'm less interested in protecting my time than in ensuring such a feature gets adopted by as many sites as possible.
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21:26:41 <Sgeo> pkg.racket-lang.org is irritating me enough that I'm planning on fixing it
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21:41:18 <elliott> J_Arcane: BSD or MIT or CC0
21:41:54 <elliott> also, that sounds fairly simple to do with e.g. a boring old bayesian classifier like can be used for spam?
21:42:19 <elliott> if you want to make something public domain, use CC0; the law is complex
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21:57:25 <GeekDude> ~
21:57:28 <GeekDude> ~help
21:57:44 <GeekDude> !help
21:57:48 <GeekDude> `help
21:57:48 <HackEgo> Runs arbitrary code in GNU/Linux. Type "`<command>", or "`run <command>" for full shell commands. "`fetch <URL>" downloads files. Files saved to $PWD are persistent, and $PWD/bin is in $PATH. $PWD is a mercurial repository, "`revert <rev>" can be used to revert to a revision. See http://codu.org/projects/hackbot/fshg/
21:57:50 <GeekDude> aha!
21:58:00 <GeekDude> `ls
21:58:01 <HackEgo> ​:-( \ bdsmreclist \ bin \ binpipes \ canary \ cat \ complaints \ crunchfuck \ :-D \ dc \ dog \ etc \ factor \ head \ hej \ hello \ hello.c \ ibin \ interps \ lib \ moop.txt \ paste \ pref \ prefs \ quines \ quotes \ share \ src \ test \ Wierd \ wisdom \ wisdom.pdf
21:58:08 <GeekDude> `cat :-(
21:58:09 <HackEgo> ​☹
21:58:12 <GeekDude> uhhh
21:58:19 <GeekDude> I don't know what I expected
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22:23:30 <Sgeo> Work blocks Chrome autoupdating because of course they do. Uninstalling+Reinstalling Chrome worked to update it.
22:23:35 <Sgeo> Firefox is allowed to auto-update
22:24:30 <boily> Sgello.
22:24:34 <boily> where do you work again?
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22:26:11 <Sgeo> Cablevision
22:27:03 <pikhq> Huh.
22:28:26 <boily> it sounds ominous.
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23:10:05 <GeekDude> Where might I find a list of (monospaced) characters sorted by area?
23:10:27 <boily> define area?
23:10:51 <GeekDude> amount of space in their square taken up
23:11:04 <GeekDude> eg, . takes up less space than M
23:11:23 <Melvar> Well, that depends absolutely and completely on the font you’re using.
23:12:01 <GeekDude> lol
23:12:05 <oerjan> i think you will find that in most monospaced fonts . takes up exactly as much space as M hth
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23:12:50 <GeekDude> I'm talking about shaded/filled in area
23:14:57 <Melvar> ▁▂▃▄▅▆▇█
23:15:48 <GeekDude> lol
23:16:05 * GeekDude will try plugging those into the program
23:16:10 <Melvar> ░▒▓█
23:17:13 <GeekDude> python does not like these characters
23:17:30 <GeekDude> treats them as syntax errors -.-
23:17:31 <boily> humbug! of course it does.
23:17:46 <Melvar> Which python?
23:17:55 <GeekDude> python 2.7
23:17:59 <GeekDude> the non-unicode one :P
23:18:05 <boily> then u'░▒▓█'.
23:19:13 <GeekDude> I had to add # coding=UTF-8
23:19:17 <Melvar> Mine finds them both agreeable. Without the u it uses UTF-8 bytes.
23:19:35 <Melvar> What, why would you have to say so?
23:20:12 <boily> the infamous # -*- coding: utf-8 -*- from python 2.
23:20:34 <Bicyclidine> emacs and python, huh. grand
23:21:07 <boily> the only python I ever did was all joyously typed in vim.
23:22:05 <boily> (also some idle in the very early beginning, but I was in a confused state.)
23:22:07 <Bicyclidine> why the emacs file variables then
23:22:19 <boily> because muscle memory from unknown sources.
23:22:34 <Bicyclidine> 3spooky
23:22:53 <boily> 5me
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23:26:09 <Melvar> `` echo $LANG
23:26:09 <HackEgo> en_NZ.UTF-8
23:28:09 <Melvar> `` python --version
23:28:09 <HackEgo> Python 2.7.3
23:28:41 <Melvar> Does python have something like show?
23:29:01 <Bicyclidine> :t show
23:29:02 <lambdabot> Show a => a -> String
23:29:17 <Bicyclidine> str(), i think? something like that
23:29:58 <Bicyclidine> repr and str.
23:31:30 <Melvar> `` python -c print repr('█')
23:31:31 <HackEgo> bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `python -c print repr('█')'
23:31:45 <shachaf> Closer to repr.
23:32:02 <Melvar> `` python -c 'print repr("█")'
23:32:02 <HackEgo> ​'\xe2\x96\x88'
23:32:10 <Melvar> `` python -c 'print repr(u"█")'
23:32:11 <HackEgo> u'\xe2\x96\x88'
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23:34:09 <Melvar> `` python <<<'repr(u"█")'
23:34:10 <HackEgo> ​ File "<stdin>", line 1 \ SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xe2' in file <stdin> on line 1, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for details
23:34:45 <Melvar> ?
23:35:35 <Bicyclidine> i love strings
23:36:38 <Melvar> I find “string” not explicit enough for a real type.
23:36:52 <boily> `` python <<< 'print(u"▓".__repr__())'
23:36:52 <HackEgo> ​ File "<stdin>", line 1 \ SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xe2' in file <stdin> on line 1, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for details
23:36:59 * boily is puzzled
23:37:26 <Melvar> `` python <<<'repr(u"█")' | cat -v
23:37:27 <HackEgo> ​ File "<stdin>", line 1 \ SyntaxError: Non-ASCII character '\xe2' in file <stdin> on line 1, but no encoding declared; see http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0263.html for details
23:37:42 <boily> no! not the evil and vile and horrendous “cat -v”!
23:37:46 <GeekDude> So fun http://i.imgur.com/LkEFeoO.png
23:39:00 <Melvar> GeekDude: That reminds me, there was some lib for rendering using extended braille patterns.
23:39:26 <Bicyclidine> can you zoom in
23:40:48 <Melvar> boily: Btw for me it complains of a non-ascii character, even though it accepts it by every other way.
23:42:00 <GeekDude> Bicyclidine: no
23:43:09 <boily> Melvar: oh well. such is life.
23:43:31 <boily> (is there a Unicode Potato somewhere?)
23:44:17 <Melvar> I find only ROASTED SWEET POTATO 🍠
23:45:05 <boily> potato, but also not potato. quantum potato causes hallucinate from malnourish.
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23:58:08 <GeekDude> Melvar: http://i.imgur.com/NdpcBSU.png
23:58:19 <GeekDude> I made the scale a variable
23:58:26 <GeekDude> so much easier than adjusting constants manually
23:59:02 <Melvar> GeekDude: Was that supposed to be directed at Bicyclidine?
23:59:20 <GeekDude> uhh
23:59:26 <GeekDude> not particularly
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