< 1411776242 694839 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411776348 983410 :Bicyclidine!~Glossina@wl-nat106.it.wsu.edu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411777791 193550 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar ENVA < 1411777791 816525 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENVA 262350Z 21019KT 9999 VCSH FEW010 SCT025 BKN035 08/04 Q0994 RMK WIND 670FT 21024G40KT < 1411777826 442500 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so which part of that says that the weather is awful today < 1411777968 914137 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the numbers < 1411777978 341319 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1411778000 188040 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it when it pours _and_ is too windy to use my umbrella < 1411778008 483206 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, thunder. < 1411778213 529900 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411778929 271716 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : the size of the set of all variations of lowercase,uppercas,digit and symbols is much larger <-- hm i'm skeptical actually < 1411778993 530427 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly that was entirely ironic, but i'm not convinced there's even a *2 difference < 1411779077 66206 :SvenGek!ac0798ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.7.152.237 NICK :`SvenGek < 1411779124 217265 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok assuming ascii between 33 and 126 < 1411779168 541654 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-d-lc-uc in s < 1411779170 169491 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 64 < 1411779191 157525 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wat < 1411779201 399658 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-32d-lc-uc in s < 1411779202 882927 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could not deduce (GHC.Num.Num (a0 -> a)) < 1411779203 71181 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : arising from the ambiguity check for ‘s’ < 1411779203 71335 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : from the context (GHC.Num.Num (a1 -> a), < 1411779203 258261 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHC.Num.Num a1, < 1411779203 258415 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : GHC.Num.Num a) < 1411779208 431897 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1411779214 882148 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :> let d = 10; lc = 26; uc = 26; s = 126-32-d-lc-uc in s < 1411779216 469464 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 32 < 1411779587 223067 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t memo < 1411779588 205712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in scope: ‘memo’ < 1411780138 253783 :`SvenGek!ac0798ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.172.7.152.237 QUIT : < 1411780614 348910 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`olist 963 < 1411780614 977351 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :olist 963: shachaf oerjan Sgeo FireFly boily nortti < 1411781797 512885 :upgrayeddd!sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ocxledlkqbyhgsjc QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411783752 690876 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411783865 92098 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411784024 123928 :GeoDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDude < 1411785137 711506 :kcm1700_!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411785145 325489 :kcm1700!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411785219 202403 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411785449 89003 :kcm1700!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411785456 415036 :kcm1700!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411786792 704836 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411789126 347269 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411789132 912822 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411789134 412810 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1411789671 828028 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : has anyone written a generator for that god-awful never execute a ] style? <-- well in general that gives exponential blowup < 1411789771 823846 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate that style too < 1411789781 98864 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and am very much in favour of designing the rules of BF Joust so that it doesn't work < 1411789965 175091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. via program size limits in the hundreds-of-kilobytes to low-megabytes range < 1411789979 724377 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think some of the usefulness of ({})% is that it gives you _some_ of the power of that style < 1411789990 193153 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the blowup < 1411789997 914566 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much of it, i wonder < 1411790087 985118 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: see stealth2's behaviour against a program that sets scattered small decoys, and you get a very good idea < 1411790216 701932 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do [P]Q -> ([P{}]Q)%-1 but that probably does not compose < 1411790242 309636 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust < 1411790242 497002 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: "!bfjoust progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1411790292 462056 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's actually a really useful transformation for timer-ing a clear < 1411790298 986854 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reduce the -1 to some smaller value < 1411790317 693254 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1411790787 717184 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric : has anyone written a generator for that god-awful never execute a ] style? <-- well in general that gives exponential blowup < 1411790794 491601 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I started writing JoustExt for. < 1411790809 29528 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411790811 126305 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to abandon runtime if {} else {} and similar constructs because the exponential blow up was too hard to control < 1411790908 871048 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the way it should be < 1411790931 134915 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I guess the reason I like ({})% is that it gives you symmetry between test-zero and test-nonzero < 1411790955 895908 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :()* lets you do any number of consecutive zero tests, but you need ({})% to do consecutive nonzero tests < 1411790967 728491 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION resolves to aim a fuzzer at gearlance
< 1411791017 783784 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lymia: looking for a bug? < 1411791381 563159 :upgrayeddd!sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjvlbafvkmefmxil JOIN :#esoteric < 1411791486 599243 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howmany reasons could I have for pointing a fuzzer at something? < 1411792029 821388 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I was more trying to get at, were you planning to try to find a bug that let you defy the normal rules of BF Joust? < 1411792123 183630 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, more notes about that esolang I was developing < 1411792129 629009 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses a queue for recursion, rather than a stack < 1411792135 107054 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :this wasn't even intentional, it just sort-of happened < 1411792157 489157 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a really good reason but I can't remember it offhand < 1411792242 455536 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it makes me want to write an alternate joust with goto labels. strategies would get far more complex far more quickly! < 1411792260 758310 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: defence programs would be close to unwritable < 1411792274 397196 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :reverse tripwires would be very unlikely to work, unless pretty large < 1411792328 972990 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also i was thinking it would be cool to have a cronjob hill. you submit a link instead of the actual code, and it runs once per night, updating by downloading codes from all the addresses that were modified TODAY and rerunning those. it's feasible now that we have fixed point. < 1411792338 115523 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it could lead to a lot of surprises when multiple people update < 1411792483 683982 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty close to how the original hill worked < 1411792498 482610 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it was weekly rather than daily, and there was IIRC a one-week lag on seeing each other's programs < 1411792516 142238 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting to have a hill where egojsout-style traces are available but source isn't < 1411792517 690520 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i don't want any lag < 1411792531 619100 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that could be cool < 1411792538 316740 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so people would have to reverse-engineer each other's programs from behaviour < 1411792548 225430 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :would definitely rule out the possibility of "program that beats/draws everything" < 1411793866 848055 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411793916 798980 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411793916 985849 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411795186 306723 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do people here think of Ethereum? < 1411796304 548358 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust dotheywork (>[(+{>[-{-}]}.)%3])%9 < 1411796305 61779 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan.dotheywork: points -29.67, score 4.28, rank 47/47 < 1411796316 908456 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok it parsed < 1411796380 436842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so zemhill_ _does_ support nested ({})s < 1411796389 99054 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least the syntax < 1411796477 659856 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it parses doesn't mean it does what you expect < 1411796514 832214 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was afraid of that < 1411796568 179697 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i sort of assume that anyone who would make it parse will also have listened to me blathering about how it _should_ be implemented. < 1411796569 930032 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest test ((>{+}>{-})%3)%4 < 1411796570 116811 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: error: parse error: encountered second { on a same level < 1411796584 525178 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, at least something that is obviously meaningless fails to parse < 1411796947 472043 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the site is very confusing, and the lack of any sort of conventional research papers doesn't give me much confidence < 1411796956 148818 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah looking at parser.h, the reason (...) is treated as a comment is so that it won't cause a parse error _inside_ a (...)*0 comment :P < 1411796983 918005 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*parser.c < 1411797055 782355 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in particular it looks like EVM doesn't do any sort of static analysis < 1411797158 863852 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the answer to te problem that came up in here several weeks ago, "is it possible to securely trade between two cryptocoins that don't share a blockchain" is "yes" < 1411797165 700057 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it needs certain features from each < 1411797198 856235 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the definition of secure, here? ensure atomicity? < 1411797203 525065 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a third party < 1411797216 416775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: yes, as in the trade one way also forces the trade the other way < 1411797229 156751 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :same definition of secure as it is within one blockchain, I'd think < 1411797251 241111 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that once it's agreed on to have happened (part of the blockchain) it can't ever be reverted < 1411797263 455921 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: you need more than that < 1411797275 404131 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main features are: a) a method to reserve funds for a specific length of time, such that they can only be transferred to one specific person within that time (but don't have to be; the reservation can time out); b) transactions that ignore unrecognised fields, and that are only accepted before a specific time and if they are signed with specific public keys (where the time and keys are part of the transaction itself) < 1411797279 440330 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: maybe you've heard of IBM forking Ethereum, though < 1411797297 952201 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: in a single cryptocurrency, the currencies are fungible < 1411797305 69083 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patashu: so the notion of an exchange is meaningless < 1411797323 169002 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the way it works is, both of us reserve our cryptocoins to each other, until some specified deadline; then we create a transaction that does /both/ transfers, and requires both our signatures and times out before the deadline in question < 1411797328 104620 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's true < 1411797344 398738 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: haven't heard of that < 1411797354 495027 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but aren't the transaction records separate? < 1411797356 744994 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we both sign it, we can each submit the transaction to the blockchain where we're receiving, it goes through because all the conditions are met < 1411797371 712419 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we don't both sign it, neither transaction can be submitted, and they both time out < 1411797380 151844 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you need asymmetrical deadlines, to prevent timing scams < 1411797410 482081 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you're creating a polyglot transaction, that's accepted by one side only if it's accepted by the other side < 1411797418 701379 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1411797427 187099 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that makes sense < 1411797428 144254 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that if you kick off my side of the transfer, I can grab the same transfer out of the blockchain and kick off your side < 1411797434 102045 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind of sad Ethereum contracts can't initiate transactions < 1411797436 849896 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thus the asymmetrical deadlines) < 1411797446 432137 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: https://gigaom.com/2014/09/09/check-out-ibms-proposal-for-an-internet-of-things-architecture-using-bitcoins-block-chain-tech/ and https://twitter.com/pbrody/status/510311550734073856 < 1411797449 154090 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loops that keep going as long as the contract is paid < 1411797464 816339 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the hold means that the money has to be available < 1411797481 112986 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(we both put the holds onto our respective blockchains in advance, and verify they're there before starting the transaction proper) < 1411797507 788050 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the ability to do a hold would be useful generally to be able to do truly instantaneous transactions, so long as you predicted in advance that they might happen < 1411797571 563802 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :do ya'll really trust the bitcoin implementation in light of recent stuff like heartbleed and shellshock :/ < 1411797599 667246 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a disaster waiting to happen if it wasn't well designed ahead of time < 1411797611 132347 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitcoin was kind of just a code dump by an anonymous person < 1411797617 509478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: I personally don't trust it; however, I think it's unlikely that a security hole will be found in the protocol itself, on the basis that if there was one, someone would probably have found and exploited it by now < 1411797621 965831 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: an academic, actually < 1411797635 168514 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :security holes in various bitcoin manipulation software have been found frequently, I expect them to continue to be < 1411797637 562595 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: "academic"? satoshi nakamoto? < 1411797725 271494 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :his secret identity might be in academia, but if he wants that credibility it would come with having some accountability as well < 1411797782 773507 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :academic code? credibility? hahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahahahahaha < 1411797786 772805 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must be new here < 1411797801 449889 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the code, the person < 1411797838 136262 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro: to be fair, academic code's pretty good when seen in the light of sturgeon's law < 1411797847 906910 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that I think it bats a little below 90% crud < 1411797860 819222 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: only a little < 1411797861 551315 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'm not making my point clearly, but in any case i don't really feel like diving too deeply in to stuff like bitcoin or ethereum since they seem pretty sketchy in terms of who's involved and who's responsible for things < 1411797877 695661 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :drdanmaku: please, use dogecoin < 1411797911 315796 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that even more sketchy? < 1411797929 259313 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe IBM and Samsung can make something more attractive with block chain tech < 1411797936 294382 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and currently trying very hard to get people to take it seriously, so that the people who already own it can become rich? < 1411797942 659742 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :block chain tech itself is pretty awesome < 1411797945 500221 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it sounds like their Adept thing is focused on the "internet of things" whatever that means < 1411797950 299719 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mining-based money distribution isn't < 1411797966 447266 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, i'd like some general purpose block chain stuff from software developers i'd heard of before < 1411798008 97674 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a centrally managed currency, but you'd need a stupidly strong public key for that < 1411798042 838875 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could easily make it cryptographically strong enough < 1411798049 142478 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the social engineering issues would be another matter < 1411798071 671061 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411798108 661337 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :one other option would just be to give your central bank an inordinately large supply of money, and only allow it to trade with certain other entities < 1411798117 526782 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as other banks) < 1411798160 640039 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really any more vulnerable to social engineering than the current system, and you avoid actually having to create and destroy money by virtue of the volume < 1411798209 155225 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I guess if you impose very strict transaction restrictions on the central key, socially engineering it out doesn't get you personally much money < 1411798222 25228 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone will be watching the transactions carefully to see if anything is amiss < 1411798248 936851 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly, Bitcoin needs Agoran-style promises < 1411798275 511534 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually originally invented them as a currency for a work of fiction when I was wondering what a completely chaotic currency system would be like < 1411798376 303900 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411798381 548529 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128. < 1411798381 978937 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -33.52, score 2.99, rank 47/47 < 1411798408 964213 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do people end programs with dots? < 1411798440 997280 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort-of like writing +(+)*10 < 1411798452 336758 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411798455 563254 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-]>)*3(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-].>)*-1 < 1411798456 199350 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -22.40, score 5.64, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798474 723770 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9(-)*128(<--<++)*4(>)*8([-]>)*3(<--<++)*4(>)*8([(+)*7[-]].>)*-1 < 1411798475 926868 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -24.12, score 4.85, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798486 411864 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1411798519 143909 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>-)*9((-)*128)*3([-].>)*-1 < 1411798520 123036 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -27.83, score 3.46, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798525 634216 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>-)*9((-)*128)*3([-.]>)*-1 < 1411798526 916104 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -31.40, score 3.04, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798540 115952 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*10)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 < 1411798540 967967 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -21.17, score 7.21, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798545 102783 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*32)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 < 1411798546 32869 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -23.26, score 6.96, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798550 147611 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*13)*9((-)*128)*3([-]>)*-1 < 1411798550 943715 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -18.69, score 8.67, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798566 209904 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>(-)*13)*9((-)*128)*3<<<([-]>)*-1 < 1411798566 969126 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -23.00, score 6.68, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411798648 290706 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411798667 65704 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1411799978 456096 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1411800012 50297 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411800030 343001 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411800679 676441 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*-1 < 1411800681 991746 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 < 1411800704 383759 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[]<(++-)*-1)*-1 < 1411800706 884017 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -12.12, score 9.86, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800721 456618 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-.)*-1)*-1 < 1411800722 99655 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -24.52, score 5.40, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800724 919293 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*-1 < 1411800727 216008 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800736 40203 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1) < 1411800736 919865 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -29.67, score 4.28, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800739 263868 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: your programs seem to contain a lot of tripwires for the sake of having tripwires < 1411800761 212047 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're only useful when writing a program that benefits from knowing what the opponent is doing < 1411800764 990947 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*10 < 1411800767 952121 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800779 569417 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust trip (>+[].<(++-)*-1)*10(>)*9([-].>)*-1 < 1411800782 166749 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.trip: points -9.36, score 11.83, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411800796 733968 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't figured out how tripwires can be used < 1411800881 557485 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most common use nowadays is to detect if the opponent is near your flag, and change to a different strategy rather than setting decoys behind them < 1411801180 653505 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411801191 6777 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411801306 513559 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, I just got the updated fix to the bash bug people were talking about < 1411801315 459957 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the fix was to change a .y file < 1411801323 413364 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so parser bug was pretty much spot on < 1411801473 347802 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but while you're detecting you can't do anything < 1411801478 624533 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because [] blocks < 1411801616 980191 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, a forwards tripwire, like [], is mostly only useful for cycle-accurate synchronization, because of that < 1411801629 975028 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a common alternative is to set the tripwire to a known value, and see if it still has that value when you check < 1411801683 351097 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust foo (->++<-)*-1 < 1411801685 851518 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.foo: points -15.43, score 7.99, rank 47/47 < 1411801701 183550 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust foo (->(+)*3<-)*-1 < 1411801704 241201 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.foo: points -16.50, score 7.07, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411801875 420111 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: leaving < 1411802058 719527 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :pffff < 1411802065 911325 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :durkon allotrope thundershield < 1411802070 668940 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing middle name < 1411802326 839561 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rabbit (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-([>[(+)*9[-]]]..+)*-1 < 1411802328 171676 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.rabbit: points -17.57, score 7.45, rank 47/47 < 1411802409 300131 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust rabbit ([>[(+)*9[-]]]..+)*-1 < 1411802409 939904 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.rabbit: points -31.55, score 4.29, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411802434 193659 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9[-] < 1411802434 892223 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -27.76, score 4.95, rank 47/47 < 1411802448 949791 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9[[-]] < 1411802449 286542 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -27.67, score 4.99, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411802457 955559 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust oneshot (>)*9([[-]]>)*-1 < 1411802458 337585 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.oneshot: points -14.40, score 10.88, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411802471 534759 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust meow (>-)*9([[-]]>)*-1 < 1411802472 829664 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.meow: points -25.86, score 3.92, rank 47/47 < 1411802483 536803 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust meow (>)*9([[-]]+>)*-1 < 1411802483 921389 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.meow: points -16.55, score 10.10, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411802491 253971 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust meow ([[-]]+>)*-1 < 1411802492 16053 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.meow: points -25.50, score 3.68, rank 47/47 (--) < 1411802583 220336 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+.)*100000 < 1411802584 92191 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.vibr4t3: points -5.05, score 15.50, rank 39/47 < 1411802589 301298 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+)*100000 < 1411802589 941449 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.vibr4t3: points -11.40, score 11.43, rank 47/47 (-8) < 1411802592 255925 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust vibr4t3 (-)*127(-+.)*100000 < 1411802593 836836 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.vibr4t3: points -5.05, score 15.50, rank 39/47 (+8) < 1411802744 868351 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-caarqdawbwyqcvhk QUIT :K-Lined < 1411802746 95947 :upgrayeddd!sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fjvlbafvkmefmxil QUIT :K-Lined < 1411803351 572796 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plhbidxwqghqpyme JOIN :#esoteric < 1411804289 967379 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :>+>->+>->+>->+(>-++-(.)*132[+]++>-++-(.)*132[-]--)*15 <- this was #1 on the hill? < 1411804302 804997 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it... just waits forever before advancing... < 1411804466 983704 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q3/712 < 1411804534 723900 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha yeah i saw that < 1411804553 737048 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how many bugs you could find just by grepping for literal numbers, generally < 1411804598 632573 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the patch replaces a *redir_stack[10] with **redir_stack, among other things < 1411804602 398529 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :end parenthesis < 1411804621 511351 :ion!ion@heh.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1411804745 681778 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still no patch for my php-injection-vuln for weathermap 0.97c < 1411804837 436766 :scounder_!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411804862 747691 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if I should disclose that publicly < 1411805010 862153 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all doomed anyway < 1411805274 563854 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03YoYoYonnY 5* 10New user account < 1411805347 172532 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :`rm wisdom/tervetuloa < 1411805349 416279 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :No output. < 1411806447 991465 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1411806461 888393 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411807006 522224 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading seclists I probably will never use wordpress < 1411808591 307338 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411810102 673034 :zemhill_!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411810130 136755 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too many programs: 49 > 47" gah < 1411810413 238041 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "replacing", but then it leaves some leftover record (don't know where), and when the same name is reused, considers it's "updating" an old one, which causes a new file to be created. < 1411810489 384969 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's a silly bug. < 1411810904 658094 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1411811195 266343 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411811212 52971 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411811308 910944 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :if(numPrograms > 47) throw new NullPointerException(); < 1411811336 282738 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ((Object)null).toString(); < 1411812135 302595 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411812139 260151 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411812144 767703 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1411814621 10892 :contrapumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1411814666 446532 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.just_testing: points -12.67, score 11.69, rank 47/47 < 1411814674 607187 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :V. fancy. < 1411814685 46838 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I will disable it if it becomes a problem.) < 1411814786 333663 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1411815009 844271 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that web-submission? < 1411815019 442380 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1411815031 445356 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Directly at http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ < 1411815056 584044 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.joust_testing < 1411815140 409056 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: technically there's still /ignore zemhill ;) < 1411815875 118798 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1411815875 305552 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-40-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1411815875 305683 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411817514 643683 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's a flaw in BF Joust that it allows that style < 1411817523 1539 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that hacking on arbitrary limits to prevent it is a bit disappointing < 1411817566 167671 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: well I did think of an interesting alternative, thinking about this problem < 1411817584 672631 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we add an extra command, which means "win"; it only does anything if you're on the enemy flag and that flag has value 0 < 1411817590 47629 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it's a nop < 1411817602 72151 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only have one of them in the entire program < 1411817653 336988 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds ugly. < 1411817679 531947 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort of think maybe we should just make ] take zero cycles and go from there < 1411817767 795690 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you hit the instant triplock problem < 1411817800 825754 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, both ways have problems and need fixing < 1411817835 924531 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :a really boring solution would be a [] nesting limit, btw < 1411817842 13955 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably nicer than a program length limit < 1411817844 799938 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that said, I've had thoughts on how to win in an instant triplock hill < 1411817859 764116 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it'd be as deep, but there's /some/ depth there < 1411818025 17539 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT : < 1411818283 670458 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what style? < 1411818452 644459 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I have nothing against a program length limit of 100 < 1411818987 313331 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411819140 437146 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411819145 449764 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1411819224 671924 :zolbap!~zolbap@host22-120-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1411819236 607754 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :/100/? < 1411819258 468558 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think there's no value in the more complex programs at all...? many of the oneliners don't even fit in 100 < 1411819298 125535 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-plhbidxwqghqpyme QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1411819385 941048 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF930E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411819607 560254 :S1!~sheldon@p4FF930E6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de QUIT :Client Quit < 1411819943 980140 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411819955 265314 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz JOIN :#esoteric < 1411820221 521149 :upgrayeddd!sid2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gwvzomrjbwmdrilh JOIN :#esoteric < 1411820615 683071 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411820753 372458 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411820807 122106 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411820807 308885 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411821235 340802 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmers using scanf with %f without setting a locale suck < 1411821355 381841 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :because parsing suddenly breaks on systems without LC_NUMERIC=en_US < 1411821436 993450 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: Redcode has that too < 1411821443 936150 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the nano hill with 5 instructions < 1411821472 205489 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1411821497 355716 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFJoust_Nano for <32, BFJoust_Mini for <100, BFJoust_Normal unrestricted < 1411821548 463752 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't mean large programs have no value < 1411821566 388321 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like <256, <1024, <1M would be more reasonable < 1411821626 268826 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nano hills warriors are 100% evolved afaik :) < 1411821645 76009 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just select a base strategy and set inital constants < 1411821655 976591 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then feed it to an evolver and leat it tweak constants etc. < 1411821659 807321 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*let < 1411821711 451613 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf joust evolvers haven't given good results so far < 1411821760 431636 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411822121 743762 :zolbap!~zolbap@host22-120-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1411822683 256917 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say that < 1411822687 481198 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see my programs? < 1411822696 40212 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made a first attempt < 1411822703 551047 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :then tweaked constants for offsets and decoys < 1411822713 108117 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just by that you can loose or win 10 places < 1411822729 112904 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tweaking of just constants could be automated I'm sure < 1411822753 329627 :zolbap!~zolbap@host22-120-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1411822984 188962 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't quite full evolving < 1411822994 156161 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 already partially automates that, I think < 1411823761 476693 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not full evolving yes < 1411823775 404858 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can just write (>)*x([-].>)*x etc < 1411823782 221204 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will find out what's best < 1411825085 389116 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411825220 324311 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411825270 830303 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411825271 17051 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411826153 496604 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.com/ < 1411826156 829887 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- who's this? < 1411826240 546974 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust tiny_tuned >(+)*12>(-)*8>(+)*8>(-)*0(>)*4(>[(-)*10[.+]])*21 < 1411826242 388534 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie.tiny_tuned: points 0.64, score 20.47, rank 18/47 < 1411826246 300013 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie_tiny dropped off the hill, and since you were talking about automatic constant tuning... < 1411826268 56448 :Patashu!Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411826693 449880 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411826813 332928 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sgello. thanks for the olist. < 1411827023 840369 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was the homestuck list, well, whatever < 1411827240 547856 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie.tiny_tuned: points 2.00, score 21.33, rank 16/47 (+2) < 1411827333 438036 :zolbap!~zolbap@host22-120-dynamic.44-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1411827444 831159 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfrmqmbysuspqlnz JOIN :#esoteric < 1411827557 387701 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: I just pushed the updated wisdom, with (somewhat) all your updates. < 1411828731 329815 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1411828768 128966 :sebbu!~sebbu@ADijon-152-1-27-206.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr QUIT :Changing host < 1411828768 359846 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411828832 698178 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: ? < 1411828839 448128 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411828894 337080 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411828947 365918 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411828947 637805 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411829327 463220 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: all your modifications to the `learndb and suchlike in the past few days. < 1411829368 23721 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where did you push them? < 1411829431 289129 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :to dropbox, as seen in the nice /topic, or to a private repo on github to which you probably have access. < 1411829443 140049 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/or/and/ < 1411829503 457547 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@ip005200.nat.marshall.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411829506 742547 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@ip005200.nat.marshall.edu QUIT :Changing host < 1411829506 952891 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411829835 21783 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1411830614 916423 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: PULCHRITUDINOUS CHICKEN < 1411832061 294708 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1411832946 516756 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411832986 36923 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know who wrote the second program here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malbolge#.22Hello_World.21.22_in_Malbolge < 1411833031 952428 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was under the impression that you needed like, five weeks of cryptanalysis and brute force in order to write a five-megabyte program to do this. i'm quite amazed < 1411833307 917766 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, User:ErichS8 on wikipedia added it < 1411833340 201092 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411833350 636639 :paul2520!~pi@unaffiliated/paul2520 QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411833430 465913 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not *that* hard, there's e.g. http://matthias-ernst.eu/malbolge.html to generate simple text-printing programs. < 1411833562 995271 :MoALTz!~no@user-46-113-36-150.play-internet.pl QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1411833714 444016 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There does not seem to be any description about the history of the Wikipedia example, though. < 1411833846 321476 :MoALTz!~no@user-5-173-18-247.play-internet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1411834401 655702 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411836190 314409 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:240b:f385:967a:2091 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411836611 884502 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411837535 574161 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:240b:f385:967a:2091 NICK :SvenNotSvenGek < 1411838630 437916 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411839042 885671 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411839049 268644 :Jafet!~jafet@static.77.207.4.46.clients.your-server.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411839461 117761 :vyv!~vyv@69.158.157.3 QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839461 771668 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839462 52449 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839462 248006 :choochter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-xkrgllhnfmchvrtc QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839462 450233 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839463 52304 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839463 243875 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839463 243996 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839463 987424 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org QUIT :*.net *.split < 1411839620 943212 :Jafet!~jafet@static.77.207.4.46.clients.your-server.de QUIT :Changing host < 1411839621 136264 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet JOIN :#esoteric < 1411839625 411890 :Jafet!~jafet@unaffiliated/jafet PART :#esoteric < 1411840009 194202 :vyv!~vyv@69.158.157.3 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422367 :^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422483 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422550 :choochter!choochter@nat/ibm/x-xkrgllhnfmchvrtc JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422615 :ski!~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422680 :Deewiant!~deewiant@deewiant.iki.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422744 :Gregor!dlopen@libdl.so JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422806 :mtve!~mtve@10130.x.rootbsd.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840009 422870 :jameseb!~jameseb_@runciman.hacksoc.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840013 370753 :perrier!~perrier@107.170.175.57 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411840585 753782 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411840760 308113 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411841524 660433 :SvenNotSvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:240b:f385:967a:2091 NICK :SvenGek < 1411841976 469291 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07$tonePits14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40544&oldid=38318 5* 0398.219.173.28 5* (+3) 10Fixed some grammar/spelling mistakes. I have a feeling the writer of this page is ESL (English Second Language), and the page could use some more work, but I think I still helped clarify it a bit. < 1411842476 64618 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1411843747 628640 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pancake Stack14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40545&oldid=37603 5* 03Quincunx 5* (-4) 10Fix Syntax error in Hello World. Switch is not valid, you wanted Flip < 1411844180 586709 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pancake Stack14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40546&oldid=40545 5* 03Quincunx 5* (+127) 10/* Syntax */ < 1411844182 407737 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: list? < 1411844189 682399 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1411844190 836112 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :`cat bin/list < 1411844191 363764 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​#!/bin/sh \ grep '^..:..:..: <[^>]*> `list' /var/irclogs/_esoteric/201[3-9]-??-??.txt | sed 's/^.*.*//;s/_*$//' | sort -u | tr '\n' ' ' < 1411844195 981302 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it's happening etc < 1411844197 632965 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess not < 1411844261 224498 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42987.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1411844346 523506 :scounder!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1411844377 329427 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Pancake Stack14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40547&oldid=40546 5* 03Quincunx 5* (+47) 10Added an interpreter < 1411844735 386995 :scounder!~scounder@ool-182fa431.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411844793 546168 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411844812 346784 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, what´s a paste service that doesn´t wrap lines? < 1411844831 717702 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprunge < 1411844833 65096 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :sprunge.us < 1411844862 123199 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks, I couldn´t remember the name to it < 1411844985 92624 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gotta love cloud -> butt http://prntscr.com/4qvobv < 1411846070 958685 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weather: Butty < 1411847435 706716 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411847993 469292 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :butty? < 1411847995 286192 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1411847996 867711 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :cloudy < 1411848024 313107 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :`! bf_txtgen Buttz < 1411848028 985214 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :53 +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]>+.>.-..++++++. [85] < 1411848032 664135 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O http://neurokernel.github.io/index.html < 1411848066 464285 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.>+++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.>+++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.> < 1411848066 651419 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ButtzButtzButtz < 1411848131 715678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah indeed! < 1411848828 895248 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++<<-]>+.>.-..++++++.<.>-----.-..++++++.<.>-----.-..++++++. that was HORRIBLY suboptimal what you did there < 1411848829 126779 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ButtzButtzButtz < 1411848832 250975 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411848850 511169 :not^v!~notnot^v@c-71-238-153-166.hsd1.mi.comcast.net QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411848903 753039 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411849203 499209 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT : < 1411849515 214214 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: You here? < 1411849639 585887 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++[>+++++>+++++++++>><<<<-]+++[->+.->.-..++++++.-----<<] same to you!! < 1411849639 811789 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :ButtzButtzButtz < 1411849817 628939 :CrazyM4n!~spng453@ip98-177-186-100.ph.ph.cox.net PART #esoteric :"Leaving" < 1411849931 705598 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have any METAFONT files for mahjong, and for Japanese hiragana and katakana? < 1411850026 15951 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1411850042 176087 :Tod-Autojoined!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850249 767388 :jix_!~jix@jixco.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850317 651460 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850325 214228 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411850325 824789 :jix!~jix@jixco.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411850326 223597 :TodPunk!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411850326 469387 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411850326 656093 :yiyus!1242712427@je.je.je JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850399 587613 :SirCmpwn!~SirCmpwn@irc.sircmpwn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850423 503311 :nycs!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850600 785443 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 QUIT : < 1411850623 770499 :digitalc1ld!~redacted@192.73.232.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411850671 855029 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 542 seconds < 1411850672 240128 :digitalcold!~redacted@unaffiliated/digitalcold QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411850817 215024 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1411850817 440834 :`^_^v!~nycs@gw.hq.meetup.com QUIT :Ping timeout: 268 seconds < 1411850855 470032 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411851230 915576 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1411852216 818099 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1411852479 69120 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :lawpoker < 1411852486 502580 :lawpoker!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin NICK :shikhin < 1411852492 714140 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411852505 818160 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1411852548 550075 :Melvar`!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de NICK :Melvar < 1411852604 858646 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1411853022 363848 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411853083 55614 :nortti!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :lawspeaker < 1411853213 6439 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42987.access.telenet.be QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1411853307 416595 :lawspeaker!nortti@nano.smar.fi NICK :nortti < 1411853363 641396 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here familiar with the Chalcraft-Greene train track automaton: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Chalcraft-Greene_train_track_automaton < 1411853530 867145 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kind of doubt that, but hey, ian stewart! < 1411853547 170959 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ian Stewart? < 1411853556 941933 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wrote about it. < 1411853570 114111 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably should know him. < 1411853621 176461 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitely should know about him. I'm terrible. < 1411853640 560029 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, knowing too many things is terrible. < 1411853651 667276 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, did you have some kind of question, or what? i'm looking at the pdf now. < 1411853717 62482 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. They mention there are two kind of junctions, but sometimes three (the flipper one being third). And I wanted to be clear if two were enough for a turing complete language. < 1411853735 631600 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like if you could make the flipper junction out of the lazy and stuck one. < 1411853771 893395 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's just me, I think the paper and articles on http://www.zillions-of-games.com/cgi-bin/zilligames/submissions.cgi?do=show;id=1008 are confused < 1411853853 278420 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm thinking/making a language of it, and of course I'll put in extra 'commands', but it would be nice to get the fundementals right.) < 1411854067 483627 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the pdf doesn't mention the third junction in its turing machine construction < 1411854155 96961 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it doesn't mention flippers at all. what's a flipper < 1411854161 297717 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless i'm missing it) < 1411854240 172865 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I first learned it, and it's in the zillion game version, a flipper is with input A and output B and C: the train enters A, leaves B. Then the track flips to C. Train enters A leaves C. then back again < 1411854253 781200 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can never enter B or C. only leave. < 1411854294 128979 :FireFly!~firefly@firefly.xen.prgmr.com QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0 < 1411854312 353993 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's not in the pdf.\ < 1411854356 763937 :FireFly!~firefly@oftn/member/FireFly JOIN :#esoteric < 1411854369 40913 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i understand lazy points, you have entrance/exits: feed, siding1, siding2. entering siding1 always exits from feed. entering siding2 always exits from feed. entering feed exits from whichever siding was most recently entered from (or some initial value). < 1411854379 946498 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and sprung points are all they use < 1411854386 681376 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1411854400 799502 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems amazing that that is enough. < 1411854416 85752 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, stranger things have happened. SKI < 1411854453 334757 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mostly wrote that out because i'm not familiar enough with physical trains to understand their description without thinking about it :V < 1411854457 297500 :kcm1700_!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411854473 401539 :kcm1700!~kcm1700@116.37.228.28 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411854477 790485 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems reasonable to me. in electronic terms it's like a latch. < 1411854489 590260 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I only got some grip on the concept with the Zillion game implementation. < 1411854490 660814 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's weird that terminology has evolved such that "latch" is electronic) < 1411854529 189951 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the sudden urge to read shannon's paper showing that boolean logic can in fact be done in circuitry. < 1411854538 753509 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a latch related to NAND? (I just know that NANDs are all you need for a computer) < 1411854554 256630 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. It's also called a "flip-flop". < 1411854562 366179 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1411854563 549845 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's basically one bit of state. < 1411854564 889559 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411854578 452933 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a bistable multivibrator, if you like using big important sounding words < 1411854587 90735 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :A latch can be made out of NANDs < 1411854592 865597 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who doesn't. < 1411854608 763439 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I believe two NANDs is sufficient to make a simple latch) < 1411854610 884773 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411854618 879616 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: That term tended to get giggles when I heard it. < 1411854633 893571 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Multivibrator < 1411854649 665611 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, because sex, < 1411854664 105503 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you can do a latch with two crosslinked nands. nors definitely work. < 1411854687 294076 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SR_Flip-flop_Diagram.svg there we go. < 1411854707 395449 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a test on this less than a year ago, but remembering things is hard < 1411854711 569536 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note the inverted set and reset signals, though. < 1411854718 673803 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "active-low", whatever. < 1411854798 832661 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT lets me view a "preview" version which is the whole text but not "printable". oh no, i guess < 1411854885 300266 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, thanks for you help. I guess the fundamentals is not that important to me, because the base language will definitely have flippers junctions. < 1411854907 707295 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is, of course, always possible to analyze any given circuit by setting up all possible sets of initial conditions and following through the chain of events so instigated." < 1411854955 952742 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1411854974 406760 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have all possible initial conditions you can just make a list or input/outputs and pretend < 1411856476 342022 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1411856504 229919 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: ok, i messed up. you do need a flipper. they construct one in the paper out of sprung and lazy points, with the caveat that you need infinitely many. < 1411856530 663894 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they also called making one 'an infuriating problem' which matches with my wasting three pages of paper on it < 1411856533 240374 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, do you like unfinished sentences in software manuals? < 1411856533 607857 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: as the scene and inspiration of the romance. such an one had nothing to do. these objects moved intelligently about the great abyss; down whose sides paths, improved by the old ones, and the < 1411856547 817510 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Software manuals: so romantic. < 1411856548 4214 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) Thanks that you kept on looking. < 1411856563 752339 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that it seems fungot does like unfinished sentences, he makes them < 1411856564 113932 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: naturally, danforth and i, by the jewish writer using the fnord " fnord" the reader toward a suitable degree of smirking optimism. but it is only at night when the moon is dark, and said to be < 1411856571 970231 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"this will be fun" i thought, "very educational" < 1411856575 45666 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes much more sense this way. < 1411856579 706441 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411856599 593912 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is a flipper what they call a distributor? < 1411856602 250548 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1411856613 360957 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i didn't notice my first look through. < 1411856615 115003 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How come you can't figure out paragraphs in text ever? < 1411856615 477373 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: earl sawyer now took the telescope and strained his vision to the utmost extent. selling a portion of the cemetery. the man of 1928, a vague report went round of things that should be dead. a boat put off, and visible only because of the remote and alien world he had chosen it, how he had seized robert, son of godfrey, < 1411856622 16389 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really couldn't decipher that, above my paygrade < 1411856653 263151 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let us suppose the existence of a distributor D, which has two outputs, 0 and 1, and one input. Trains sent in the input come out of 0 and 1 alternately." < 1411856655 568245 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? no, a flipper is foot fins used for swimming < 1411856656 325720 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too bad. < 1411856691 635992 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain is often mush. < 1411856722 961867 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how they show you can avoid bridges, too < 1411856847 489580 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :The four leaf clover diagram? < 1411856866 144686 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1411856873 618409 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if you used it for traffic you'd get collisions. < 1411856925 656503 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm planning on implementing multiple trains, so I'll have to account for that. (and on regular track as well of course) < 1411857056 336632 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411857194 428230 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411857242 675132 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411857242 899736 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411857941 397842 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1411858118 794586 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :shannon talks about proving theorems by "perfect induction", for example proving that x + y = y + x in boolean algebra by trying it for all values of x and y < 1411858121 815625 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna call it that from now on < 1411858174 783205 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, "trying it" how so < 1411858184 828558 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can only prove x + y = y + x by induction, right? < 1411858198 115702 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it only work for finite domains < 1411858200 718123 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's boolean algebra, meaning 0 and 1 are the only values. < 1411858202 167005 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes. < 1411858207 986391 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: depends on what the type is :) < 1411858211 556294 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1411858220 939930 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin PRIVMSG #esoteric :but chances are, that's true < 1411858226 357464 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm think natural number, but there's more to life than that. < 1411858241 510195 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "can be less to life" than that. < 1411858334 945408 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be more or less to life. can be arbitrary amounts to life < 1411858379 307620 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the "induction" in "perfect induction" may be the philosophical concept, not the mathematical one < 1411858382 611093 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be seven to life. < 1411858435 193152 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, philosophical induction is deducing laws from examples, so "perfect" induction would be deducing a law by checking _all_ examples. < 1411858454 337895 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, duh, this is just "proof by exhaustion" which i've heard lots before < 1411858500 347304 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i just think the name is kinda funny. < 1411858505 456350 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan: you can prove x + y = y + x pretty simply for cardinalities without induction < 1411858553 838930 :Phantom__Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411858560 28183 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, just make a bijection that maps from each side to the other < 1411858623 3647 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i.e. \(a, b) -> (b, a)? < 1411858631 514548 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric ::t let bij (Left x) = Right x; bij (Right y) = Left y in bij < 1411858632 814272 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either b a -> Either a b < 1411858641 795122 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: no, that would prove x * y = y * x < 1411858660 965559 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1411858663 495252 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :sums are like Eithers < 1411858718 518932 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are differences and quotients? < 1411858720 913970 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :now prove x ^ (y + z) = (x ^ y) * (x ^ z) :P < 1411858735 773208 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :differences and quotients of what < 1411858742 791227 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :In types < 1411858743 633462 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: not always well defined < 1411858746 876838 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either a b = a + b < 1411858755 209196 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :? a b = a - b < 1411858756 325263 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i thought you meant cardinalities < 1411858787 921636 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, that's (Either y z -> x) <-> (y -> x, z -> x) < 1411858789 123647 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think i saw a blog title on /r/haskell or thereabouts about that recently, but i didn't read it < 1411858819 842043 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :mauris: right < 1411858862 348919 :mauris_!~mauris@91.176.189.206 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411858887 25710 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411858891 185939 :mauris_!~mauris@91.176.189.206 NICK :mauris < 1411858959 354737 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i think the basic problem with difference and quotients may be the same in types as in cardinalities: you don't have cancelation, x + y = x + z does not imply y = z < 1411859018 574896 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Nat = () + Nat < 1411859080 185860 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact one definition of infinity in cardinality theory is that a set is infinite if it's the same size as a proper subset of itself < 1411859169 667128 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be proved equivalent to it containing a copy of N < 1411859362 548748 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i think you don't even need the axiom of choice, although slightly different formulations might) < 1411859803 853870 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I think it becomes a lot more subtle without LEM though I don't really know the details. < 1411859834 402653 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i hardly ever consider that < 1411859878 998382 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :newtype Nat = Nat (Maybe Nat); < 1411859892 795058 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can end up with an uncountable subset of the naturals, or something like that, can't you? < 1411860037 439345 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411860481 431257 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411860549 93186 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the basic difficulty is that you mustn't confuse ordinal power with cardinal power. they're two different operations that happen to coincide for finite arguments. < 1411860570 13676 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember reading http://math.andrej.com/2012/10/03/am-i-a-constructive-mathematician/ < 1411860575 456232 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it was a different page < 1411860894 937969 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411861108 694497 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411861122 188921 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Nat = Fix Maybe? < 1411861156 981733 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1411861203 193857 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It may happen that the reals are in 1-1 correspondence with a subset of the natural numbers, while at the same time they form an uncountable set." help < 1411861249 521913 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand either, since the reals have a larger cardinality < 1411861277 263500 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably other definitions of some of the terms are involved. < 1411861309 547127 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as "may happen" < 1411861470 205484 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it happen? < 1411861712 254296 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411861718 632971 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1411861759 902348 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :answered a question without noticing i was in backscroll (and that it hadn't been answered) < 1411861764 297109 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :*had < 1411861798 432820 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it great how you scroll up up a page, and then people say a few lines, and you scroll down a page, and you're still in scrollback mode? < 1411861863 731537 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :intuitionism is bizarre sometimes < 1411862007 20155 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the name < 1411862102 534593 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point tswett rambled somewhere on a set theory with a universal set U, with the consequence that the power set of U is a proper subset of U. < 1411862227 436991 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.109.216 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411862252 151175 :shikhout!~shikhin@120.59.109.216 NICK :Guest15560 < 1411862357 141154 :scounder!~scounder@ool-182fa431.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Quit: Leaving