< 1411862412 359440 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411862549 33717 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how a universal set would do that, but I thought there is no such things as a universal set. < 1411862567 244855 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :A set cannot contain itself < 1411862592 257052 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :the consequences is that universal set would not be, by definition, a set < 1411862633 223231 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aczel%27s_anti-foundation_axiom < 1411862636 206526 :dmstor!~dmstor01@cpe-74-133-129-196.swo.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411862680 182647 :dmstor!~dmstor01@cpe-74-133-129-196.swo.res.rr.com PART :#esoteric < 1411862766 746604 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be fair, i've only seen an attempt at actually using it in a really shitty biology paper. < 1411862824 688477 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't deal with sets so much < 1411862836 702769 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I can do Array = [], Array[Array] := Array < 1411862850 354497 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, Array := [], Array[Array] := Array < 1411862854 917453 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed a : on the first one < 1411862868 937768 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :( := is the assignment operator in the language I am using for this demonstration) < 1411862869 309381 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Command "=" not permitted. < 1411863453 545234 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: Not in the usual set theories, but this was a set theory with such a universal set. It was probably NFU. < 1411863549 342780 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :NFU? < 1411863584 958504 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently this stands for “New Foundations with Urelements”. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Foundations . < 1411863646 449691 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.68.168 QUIT :Ping timeout: 276 seconds < 1411863660 241907 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brain is frying here < 1411863674 598161 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too well versed in set theory < 1411863678 956862 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :of any kind < 1411863793 454968 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :I brought it up because there was already talking about the fact that if you take a different foundation, different axioms, you can get very different properties from what you’re used to. So I decided to give another example I’d heard of. < 1411864268 322530 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to write a simple PRNG, and am limited to only using integers between negative and positive 524287 < 1411864333 732127 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :A linear congruential generator sounds like it could work < 1411864349 334456 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a small multiplier and increment < 1411864455 685745 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that should be easy. < 1411864499 224504 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :724 for the modulus, that's roughly the square root of the max int limit < 1411864524 208375 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :then perhaps something like 483 for the multiplier < 1411864535 4747 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 238 for the increment < 1411864541 446720 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm completely misunderstanding the point < 1411864576 6630 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could stuff a larger range of values in there I guess < 1411864593 106668 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully you are not using this for crypto < 1411864597 192248 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo way < 1411864607 158168 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a damn then < 1411864618 797118 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need values that look vaguely random < 1411864635 326582 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a school project last week where i got entropy by counting up until the user hit a button, #yolo < 1411864642 392277 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411864662 795952 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clock value you could mooch off? < 1411864755 516158 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what i was doing. didn't feel adventurous enough to figure out how to get at the oscillators directly < 1411864799 26557 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard a last ditch effort for medium quality entropy is to ask the user to mash the keyboard < 1411864883 50399 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's practically begging for bad entropy. < 1411864900 494055 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411864906 689545 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need high quality users < 1411864915 294605 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe a blindfold < 1411864916 878695 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :type without rhythm so as not to attract the worm. < 1411864921 137718 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, "values that look vaguely random" though. < 1411864949 450846 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hear the low bit of rdtsc is good enough. < 1411865022 269259 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdtsc? < 1411865041 612886 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle counter on x86. < 1411865066 690552 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even close to using x86 though < 1411865084 247564 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well then, that's a terrible idea. < 1411865089 307707 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using BASIC on a 3ds < 1411865105 447041 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :... For a class project. < 1411865112 154134 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it SmileBASIC? < 1411865114 23739 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC. On a 3DS. < 1411865116 360020 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay then. < 1411865126 554421 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes it is < 1411865129 512633 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the class project was me, geekdude might be doing some other shite < 1411865135 182694 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can run SmileBASIC on 3DS, but it isn't really like BASIC; there are many differences too. < 1411865138 681721 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Oic < 1411865148 156083 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ all the variants have their giant quirks < 1411865152 383254 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, i was doing a simon says game. security, of course, is paramount < 1411865180 73487 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1411865189 171500 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone might use it to choose passwords, or crypto keys. < 1411865206 980848 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing fractal trees < 1411865213 602055 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really fractal < 1411865219 695099 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was actually that pretty funny deniable encryption thing, but it used a game more like DDR < 1411865221 610358 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursive trees < 1411865241 558187 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's self-similar it's fractal. < 1411865250 220831 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM has a cycle counter register, looks like < 1411865257 184540 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine something is accessible on the 3ds < 1411865275 375272 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just about guarantee that SmileBASIC does not expose that though. < 1411865275 626018 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :The branches resemble eachother in that they each have two sub branches (although at psuedo-random angles) < 1411865282 822530 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's uh, four bytes of entropy, hooray < 1411865283 11944 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: sadly not < 1411865298 967081 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :do like old dos basic, just write instructions into the memory space < 1411865303 354726 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as previously mentioned, #yolo < 1411865318 599613 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: If SmileBASIC works like that then some hackers are gonna be very happy. < 1411865337 817834 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, this is an official product. < 1411865341 215130 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis < 1411865342 71367 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1411865352 213122 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a new version coming out very soon to the US < 1411865354 813013 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be loads better < 1411865357 351541 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know some emulator people now so i just assume all game systems are cracked. < 1411865360 235055 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will support 3d output < 1411865365 328249 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's, uh, the BASIC variant in the PetiteComputer thing? < 1411865373 58084 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, Petit computer < 1411865384 410474 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sadly not really. The DSi is only tenuously cracked, and the 3DS is utterly uncracked at this point. < 1411865390 765747 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, you can utilize data in your program from the built-in accelerometer, gyro-sensor, microphone and the circle pad. Get the most out of potential of Nintendo 3DS!" < 1411865393 504904 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :*And* it's got fucking region locking! < 1411865396 808538 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like entropy to meeeee < 1411865403 239083 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: that's in the new version though < 1411865406 647826 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :not released to the US yet < 1411865416 177602 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the DSi and 3DS are region locked. < 1411865417 91880 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i live on the edge < 1411865418 65008 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using the DSi version < 1411865421 118619 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because Nintendo hates people. < 1411865425 555938 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :..........of the US and europe < 1411865441 374461 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think it would be better to do differently, if instead it has a Forth interpreter built-in (rather than being external software), with a virtual machine that you can access the full address space of (you don't need to access address space outside of the VM) < 1411865450 830701 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how good the accelerometer is. i tried my phone's and it was one hell of a hot mess < 1411865451 739156 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original Nintendo DS is not region locked. < 1411865454 57771 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I think this is more of a SmileBoom thing, they have to translate everything into english, and make sure it still works < 1411865477 461714 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: The thing is, though, if the platform weren't region locked you could at least *run* foreign software. < 1411865479 886557 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they plug their PRNG into a countdown timer < 1411865486 541950 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be in a language you speak, but still. < 1411865500 865608 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have one foreign game card on my Nintendo DS < 1411865534 146209 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://smilebasic.com/en/image/ss-story-help-4.png wow, it's like i'm really on my TI < 1411865557 638654 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get "TIME$" and "DATE$" as my only two time sensitive inputs < 1411865566 509170 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: it looks like a shitty dos game < 1411865578 835510 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that amazing font!!! < 1411865586 526005 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still write games on DOS sometimes < 1411865598 70963 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing this http://i.imgur.com/ryhFSIA.jpg < 1411865608 267609 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :but imagine green and brown, and more branches < 1411865622 37649 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's like an l system. < 1411865626 228620 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or... something. < 1411865627 335111 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually is < 1411865632 503245 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've implemented an L system < 1411865645 345729 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :#nailed it < 1411865659 705496 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :though, two of the operations include "and add a random number" < 1411865671 81239 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :so YMMV as to reproducability < 1411865671 414184 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuthin wrong with a lil stochasticism. < 1411865729 309244 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAND = (433*RAND + 238) % 724 < 1411865733 723641 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, 'random' < 1411865746 551508 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nsa gonna hack ur l system < 1411865783 344985 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :idgi. wouldn't that have a period of at most 724 < 1411865797 529913 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411865812 133435 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said 'vaguely random' < 1411865825 699046 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's true, you might as well use the largest modulus you can. < 1411865833 731906 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :¯\_(ツ)_/¯ < 1411865843 120548 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how stack overflow is handled < 1411865849 738898 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says values larger than the max limit are "ignored" < 1411865852 757573 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack?? < 1411865861 553677 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is not stack < 1411865863 582864 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :no* < 1411865872 331928 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1411865874 643306 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just said stack overflow, did you mean numeric overflow. < 1411865875 963949 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer overflow* < 1411865892 901885 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, well, just find a prime around 500000 and call it good. < 1411865897 360763 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :My head is on slightly crooked < 1411865909 615438 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ok google, closest prime to five hundred thousand" < 1411865921 480260 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... well i don't remember the requirements... they're on wikipedia. < 1411865938 506456 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=prime+near+50000 the future is great < 1411865989 74100 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION needs to test integer overflow first
< 1411866009 909274 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1411866017 327793 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to just print "overflow" and ignore the command < 1411866041 525897 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do two commands then I think < 1411866049 289878 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :one to multiply and the other to do other things < 1411866122 294783 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAND = 483 * RAND:RAND = (RAND + 238) % (LIMIT - 238) < 1411866127 125235 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work I think < 1411866135 744247 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :: is the command delimiter thing < 1411866138 720400 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ; in C++ < 1411866167 686800 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's LIMIT? < 1411866178 318422 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :the maximum integer size < 1411866186 749736 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :In BASIC a colon can be used for multiple commands in one line; otherwise line breaks delimit multiple commands. < 1411866187 726600 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, roundabout 524287 < 1411866205 915696 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey zzo38, I'm starting up a SmileBASIC channel if you wanna join < 1411866208 87896 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is different than in C and C++, where a semicolon marks the end of a statement, regardless of line breaks < 1411866217 328212 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a new SmileBASIC channel < 1411866223 940092 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other one was on EFNet and only had 2 people < 1411866225 324560 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: I saw your invitation, and no I don't have any Nintendo 3DS < 1411866227 737436 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and < 1411866229 962539 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1411866240 952833 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where'd you learn about SmileBASIC? < 1411866245 150958 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that just google talking < 1411866310 694668 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think every random number you generate will be 1 (mod 3) < 1411866327 194931 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like to program Famicom though < 1411866352 865795 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.93.91 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411866353 573488 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did learn about SmileBASIC from a message on NESdev I think. < 1411866360 97627 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not remember. < 1411866382 173938 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 3 | 524287 - 238, and 3 | 483, so your formula mod 3 becomes just (0r + 1) = 1 < 1411866435 3774 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I'm following < 1411866564 421036 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 * 1024 is the max integer limit < 1411866568 32351 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1411866571 29996 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 * 1024 < 1411866591 825703 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if I use a multiplier just below 512, I can use a max of just around 1024 < 1411866692 651446 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1411866792 133015 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF RAND<1024 THEN RAND=RAND*503 < 1411866792 369115 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAND=(RAND+9203)%1024 < 1411866802 941431 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be overflow free, and users primes for both M and C < 1411866809 468911 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, a and c < 1411866814 771662 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :m is 1024 < 1411866844 393707 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiples of two for m is standard < 1411867099 917324 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be working fairly okay < 1411867138 942423 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an actual PRNG on here, but I can't seed it < 1411867141 728974 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Famicom even has two game pads, microphone, keyboard, drawing tablet, light gun, tape recording, stereovision, dance mat, and more other things. < 1411867211 462972 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up with the connector port on the bottom? < 1411867226 35655 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, on the USA NES < 1411867236 396923 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The NES connector port was going to be used for the NES disk drive, but they never released that. < 1411867248 760929 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It connects also to the cartridge port and a few other things; it isn't very useful. < 1411867277 343058 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :And not all versions of NES even have such a port anyways. < 1411867293 862164 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps the most useful thing to do with it would be to jumper the cartridge port lines and the sound lines, and then mod a Famicom adapter to put the sound lines on those pins. < 1411867331 186421 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the Famicom had a sound line on the cartridge port; on the NES, this was moved to the expansion port. Unfortunately, Famicom games *actually used* the sound line.) < 1411867369 266518 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound input, output, or both? < 1411867412 471151 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output. < 1411867433 109135 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the famicom games used this for... ? < 1411867434 777708 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, the Famicom has both. < 1411867437 662765 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of a goo use case < 1411867441 92123 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :good* < 1411867450 399507 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better synthesizers on the cartridge. < 1411867460 161681 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The FDS itself used this feature. < 1411867466 295375 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you decide the output, can't you just use local feedback? < 1411867466 941903 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The audio goes through the cartridge; usually it is just a wire or mixed with extra audio on the cartridge, and another pin goes that to TV set. < 1411867502 798694 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Ah. < 1411867509 117836 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thhought it was mixed in the console. < 1411867559 813702 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411867572 46446 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. The Famicom sound hardware was somewhat limited, and having an extra synth on the cartridge bought you a lot of extra power. < 1411867610 378893 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Least it's not as limited as the poor 2600 was. < 1411867682 749961 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think super famicom was where it was at < 1411867703 10616 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1411867707 792340 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was overall a pretty awesome system. Crazy to emulate though. < 1411867751 49462 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cartridges on there can bus master. < 1411867806 651642 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emulating heterogenous multiprocessing like that is such a pain. < 1411867833 616829 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencl to the rescue < 1411867862 36054 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Super Famicom; I like Famicom. < 1411867874 707287 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: Doesn't help that much here. < 1411867896 405541 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's shared memory heterogenous multiprocessing. < 1411867924 549005 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is about where most people start sobbing. < 1411867940 344525 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Famicom is faster than Commodore 64, too. < 1411867998 570358 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :By about 700kHz, sure. < 1411868032 651335 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am even writing a Z-machine interpreter on Famicom. I designed a custom mapper for this purpose; I have the description of it if you want it. < 1411868042 5979 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy. < 1411868062 532010 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's almost as awesome as the SCUMM interpreter on Famicom. < 1411868064 243973 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infocom never did, but they did it on Commodore 64. However, looking at their codes they did many things slow. < 1411868190 662212 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mapper I use is pretty unusual (although it can be made using a few 74xx series): For one thing, the story file is stored on a separate ROM chip, which is bankswitched two bytes at a time, and the 64K RAM in the cartridge is bankswitched one byte at a time. For another, the registers overlap mirrors of the Famicom's internal RAM. < 1411868221 504673 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: famicom SCUMM interpreter? < 1411868226 889166 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's the audio? < 1411868288 398283 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only thing that uses it is the official port of Maniac Mansion, so a bit hard to judge. :) < 1411868307 588667 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know any other mapper with such small bank sizes, or with registers overlapping the mirrors of internal RAM.) < 1411869008 795602 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1411869018 586939 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :My random number generator, expectedly, is quite bad < 1411869026 644685 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :a small seed starts off with a small input < 1411869032 369633 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, small starting random values < 1411870441 251139 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411871425 1938 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another possible random number generator is ARCFOUR, which is what SQLite uses. < 1411871570 657557 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally found some good values for my random < 1411871649 835845 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF RAND < 515 THEN RAND = RAND * 1018 < 1411871650 85719 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAND = (RAND + 1018) % 515 < 1411871667 39739 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives pretty good results < 1411871680 234940 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :though... < 1411871686 442804 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I think about it it's always less than 515 < 1411871719 664191 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think I have an overflow opportunity here too < 1411871725 465166 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try choosing a slightly lower coprime pair < 1411871732 272818 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a slightly lower multiplier < 1411871770 132853 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411871873 254843 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:240b:f385:967a:2091 QUIT :Quit: [Quit: [Quit: SvenGek] [Quit: SvenGek]] < 1411871907 838094 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1411872015 332929 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1411872018 168819 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, I'm good < 1411872063 955967 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :1018+514*1018 == 524270, which is less than 524287 < 1411872263 961319 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the feature known to be introduced in new NetHack/ < 1411872374 350234 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411873327 351407 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.93.91 PART :#esoteric < 1411873428 768936 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you can offer the amulet to moloch now or something < 1411873948 807067 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't be a win, can it < 1411873962 91501 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens? < 1411875012 871165 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1411875055 608684 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1411875137 119772 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you win an infinite collection of envelopes (the first containing $1, the second having $2, the third having $3, the fourth having $4, etc) from "Let's Make a Deal"? < 1411875255 745728 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't, there isn't an infinite number of envelopes to win < 1411875266 166496 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would that be an arent < 1411875268 714998 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyways, https://db.tt/NPeEG7ml < 1411875296 748404 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's an arent? < 1411875297 227336 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the output, http://i.imgur.com/unpvLzV.jpg < 1411875353 64252 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :night all < 1411875369 795521 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GoodnightkDude! < 1411875371 491163 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where would you keep all of them? In a black hole? Possibly it won't fit even in a black hole. Also, they would add up to a negative number. < 1411875407 339061 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there a "proof" out there about adding up all the positive integers equals -1/12? < 1411875410 680753 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure the world financial system is down with ramanujan summation. < 1411875417 754506 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have seen that < 1411875423 254334 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :That it add up to -1/12 < 1411875445 769117 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: But the world financial system is not infinite. < 1411875448 651109 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ramanujan and... i think cesaro? give you -1/12 < 1411875477 781533 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no it's not cesaro summable. < 1411875487 778666 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that the one where you take averages? < 1411875496 328177 :shachaf!~shachaf@unaffiliated/shachaf PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1411875507 347282 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411875513 404567 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say all positive numbers are, on average, about five. < 1411875525 400543 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(trust me, I'm an engineer.) < 1411875528 981267 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so. < 1411875558 72204 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what's weird? the erdos-kac theorem < 1411875594 825043 :mauris!~mauris@91.176.189.206 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1411875608 937223 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia even says "randomly chosen large integer". < 1411875714 336125 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is strangely fascinating. < 1411875737 906900 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, any integer is gonna be about five anyway. < 1411875816 126798 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I said, but zzo38 is being mean. *pfbfbfbfbt* < 1411875833 36920 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :c'mon zzo, they're an engineer! they know all about numbers. and five. < 1411875930 441337 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :me, i've never even seen a number in person, to be perfectly honest < 1411875945 215816 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Being an engineer is not quite good enough < 1411875968 181731 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also mean, you need to be mathematician, and you also need to prove it, too. < 1411875989 150233 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :IANAMAA. < 1411876033 936148 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://existentialcomics.com/comic/36 < 1411876060 372836 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.238 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411876119 290293 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: :D < 1411876290 929538 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night all! < 1411876305 205917 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: CHILLING CHICKEN < 1411876885 207267 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"P.S. I can't end the post without sharing my favorite self-reproducing program: the one-line shell script #!/bin/cat." < 1411876941 412116 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411877011 929478 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Sadly, not a shell script and won't work on all POSIX systems. < 1411877025 726379 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, this one will: cat "$0" < 1411877262 748342 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't tell anything about a .zip file until the entire .zip file is loaded, but can quickly make changes < 1411877295 539479 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, the latter seems irrelevent... a central header should be sufficient these days, right? Since central footer mostly makes using floppies easier? < 1411877421 765737 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Puting the list at the end may also make it easier to write through a pipe in some cases (although might be more difficult to read), and possibly for cheating at Day of Zeux. < 1411877510 330271 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :The footer of the .zip file is strictly necessary. < 1411877539 991384 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the only part of the file that most anything looks at first. < 1411877562 960420 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Day of Zeux? < 1411877584 557082 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, .zip the Z-Machine format? < 1411877588 331374 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411877593 395398 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant sufficient in the sense of, if .zip were redesigned with modern requirements in mind, would we still want to place the directory data in the footer < 1411877626 363130 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :The extension .zip (sometimes also .dat) is also used for Z-machine files, although this is not recommended due to confusion with ZIP archive files. < 1411877627 82985 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Yes. We would not do so at all. < 1411877638 434495 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411877638 690304 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411877654 409002 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :As evidenced by how ZIP is nearly unique in that property. :) < 1411877715 550345 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to read the DEFLATE spec
< 1411877745 555131 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFLATE is a moronic and insane file format with equal parts weird microoptimization and utterly pointless redundancy. < 1411877800 924071 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frankly, I'm pretty sure Phil Katz was drunk when he made it. < 1411877831 345781 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is ZPAQ better then? < 1411877898 108880 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I know, it's a bit absurd in the sheer flexibility of the format, but it sure seems better designed. < 1411877945 93396 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :o.O < 1411877968 303088 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for those who don't know, ZPAQ is literally a compression format that specifies a VM for decompression algorithms.) < 1411877983 739256 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh that sounds fun < 1411878007 21021 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to go read that instead even if no one uses it < 1411878046 345807 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. It's not a common format, but it's certainly a unique design for a format. < 1411878095 784954 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't entirely like all the way that the VM in ZPAQ works; it requires more than one VM as well as a few other things. What I think would be good way, is the archive file is a memory image for a "Decompression Computer"; the decompression program then loads te memory image and emulates the Decompression Computer. The data on the output port is then treated as a tape archive. < 1411878176 294100 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah. ZIP was devised by an alcoholic and it shows. :( < 1411878274 793059 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and I would then have Huffman-encoded instructions, and many of the instructions implement important parts of decompression algorithms and other high-level stuff too; it is a very CISC computer. < 1411878393 991271 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the output has to be made, it be set to go to a buffer or to stdout. (It could also have stdin, which is going to be used for encryption.) < 1411879682 671990 :weissschloss!~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411879753 138073 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Looks like adding data can get corrupted if there's a hash collision in SHA1? < 1411879849 364332 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^probably not relevent < 1411879930 562971 :weissschloss!~viskestel@li607-220.members.linode.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411879945 774133 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although SHA1 is disliked these days, isn't it? < 1411880004 433152 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's theoretical exploits against it that weaken its collision resistance. < 1411880051 104785 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU C is getting a bit slow even when I didn't turn on the optimization < 1411880058 728091 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though strictly speaking it's not attackable in practice yet to our knowledge, it's to the point that you should really move away from it *now* so you don't get caught with your pants down. < 1411880092 842876 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it necessary to tell it to turn off the optimizations? < 1411880112 590384 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: is ZPAQ updatable to make dedup reliant on SHA-256 instead? < 1411880117 988453 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not know. < 1411880167 893687 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( at C++ API... so many lesser known programming languages can talk to C but not C++ < 1411880247 290894 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you use it in C++ if you use a extern "C" block to load them? < 1411880324 436000 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :"time gcc -g -O0 -o nanozil nanozil.c" says it is 15 seconds < 1411880400 207540 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so... this model stuff... would it make sense to, say, make a specialized Brainfuck model to compress more easily brainfuck code? < 1411880418 119209 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which presumably could then be decompressed with any compliant ZPAQ decompressor < 1411880450 807 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Things like these are some of things I have wanted to do, too < 1411880649 762992 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"To mark the end of the data, each decoded byte < 1411880650 4327 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :is preceded by a EOS (end of segment) bit, which is 1 after the last byte, coded with p1 very near 0. " < 1411880671 772557 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, is it possible that a model that makes a strong prediction but gets it wrong confuses the decompressor? < 1411880905 980493 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly, the optimization I have implemented is broken. < 1411881063 535409 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the input file: http://sprunge.us/JIdV This is output with optimization turned off: http://sprunge.us/TPAM This is output with optimization turned on: http://sprunge.us/SXPa < 1411881187 437146 :Guest15560!~shikhin@120.59.109.216 QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411881425 868024 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it is to be expected; I didn't test it until now. < 1411881469 588162 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you help me to fix it? < 1411881819 913814 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :I added #ifndef OMIT_OPTIMIZATIONS and -DOMIT_OPTIMIZATIONS for now; it causes GCC to run much faster now. < 1411881973 409890 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411882149 411357 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.65.238 QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411882215 412943 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1411882785 278512 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1411883518 811087 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Quit: Leaving... < 1411883715 371388 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1411884259 902158 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should stop being surprised when this Celtic music sometimes sounds Enya-esque < 1411884435 189297 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.233.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411884441 98709 :shikhin!~shikhin@120.59.233.172 QUIT :Client Quit < 1411884459 903951 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411884950 456770 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411885394 449821 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411885653 749201 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1411885654 199723 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411885659 678092 :Patashu_!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au NICK :Patashu < 1411887882 31554 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411887888 822375 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.test: points 2.17, score 22.16, rank 14/47 < 1411887952 144541 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a way to submit programs via the web < 1411887969 255064 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ at the bottom < 1411887981 717399 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made a mistake submitting it for real. < 1411888030 911858 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.test: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-33) < 1411888096 40126 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 QUIT :Quit: Leaving < 1411888131 150734 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust BeatYouMate >(-)*6>(+)*7>-(+)*17>(-)*12>(+)*8>(-)*7>(+)*8>(+)*3>[(-)*7[+]]>>[(+)*7[-]]>>([(+)*14[-]]>)*3([(-)*14[+]]>)*3[(-)*7[+]]>>[(+)*8[-]]>>([(+)*14[-]]>)*3[(-)*14[+]]>[(+)*14[-]]>[(-)*16[+]]>[(-)*7[+]] < 1411888131 871225 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan_.BeatYouMate: points 2.38, score 22.40, rank 13/47 < 1411888143 399370 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411888306 121318 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust BeatYouMate <>< < 1411888306 331630 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan_.BeatYouMate: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-34) < 1411888315 962989 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 NICK :AndoDaan < 1411888319 596660 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust BeatYouMate >(-)*6>(+)*7>-(+)*17>(-)*12>(+)*8>(-)*7>(+)*8>(+)*3>[(-)*7[+]]>>[(+)*7[-]]>>([(+)*14[-]]>)*3([(-)*14[+]]>)*3[(-)*7[+]]>>[(+)*8[-]]>>([(+)*14[-]]>)*3[(-)*14[+]]>[(+)*14[-]]>[(-)*16[+]]>[(-)*7[+]] < 1411888319 971315 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :AndoDaan.BeatYouMate: points 2.95, score 22.58, rank 13/47 (+26) < 1411888404 697126 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :web.DeadFish: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 < 1411888443 47440 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jousting < 1411888452 30293 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1411888629 81526 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :penile jousting < 1411889111 74537 :Tod-Autojoined!Tod@50-198-177-186-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net NICK :TodPunk < 1411889459 742321 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no QUIT :Quit: More like piscile < 1411890530 598493 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead QUIT :Quit: Computer has gone to sleep < 1411890893 771658 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every compressor that can compress any input must also expand some of its input. However, the expansion never needs to be more than one symbol. Any compression algorithm can be modified by adding one bit to indicate that the rest of the data is stored uncompressed." < 1411890901 225210 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how many people fail to consider that last part < 1411892961 116851 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MaurineWooten 5* 10New user account < 1411893698 326437 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mfrmqmbysuspqlnz QUIT :Quit: Connection closed for inactivity < 1411894116 439406 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Quit: Lost terminal < 1411894147 409119 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411895088 412340 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i would imagine that any compression algorithm worth its salt would include that logic, or something equivalent to it? < 1411895154 172266 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: most compression algorithms include similar logic, but not exactly that strict, so they might expand strings by slightly more than one symbol < 1411895318 377619 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: depends on how you define symbol :P but yeah, I'd expect them to at least expand no input by more than a constant < 1411895349 76174 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: they don't usually do that, because they want a streamable compression (with very large buffer), < 1411895377 64223 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so eg. if the first gigabyte of the input is uncompressible, they write that first gigabyte uncompressed with a length marker before reading the second gigabyte < 1411895384 716179 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get expansion by a small constant factor < 1411895406 892316 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't want to have to read the whole input to decide whether to use a constant long marker marking that all the data is uncompressible < 1411895429 153731 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not all compressed data needs to be streamed. for streamable data, i expect each encoded unit to expand by no more than a constant < 1411895479 120256 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, not all, but all the compression methods for very long input are. there's methods for limited sized inputs, where obviously the input extends only by a constant for any encoder with finite state. < 1411895592 640318 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, the important part is that the compression doesn't expand the input by too much < 1411895676 572273 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :also note that some compressions, such as gzip (zlib with the gzip header), are defined as concatenatable: if you concatenate two compressed outputs, you can decompress them as the catenation of the two inputs. that already precludes the compressor being able to compress with just a constant marker at the end, because after such marker it couldn't find where you concatenate the next gzip file. < 1411895688 684143 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this was useful for casette tapes. < 1411896021 373019 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't preclude that each of the two parts that were concatenated has only a constant tag < 1411896376 132338 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: it does < 1411896399 364199 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: if there's a constant tag that quotes all the rest of the file, then you can't recognize where that file ends and the next compressed one starts < 1411896435 748155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: this works even if the form of the constant length quote tag varies as long as you can quote any input with a constant length prefix tag < 1411897293 512862 :impomatic_!~digital_w@87.113.116.210 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411898215 261720 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411899408 671335 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan JOIN :#esoteric < 1411899410 239323 :Lymia!~fujoshi@inportb/loli/cirno-chan PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opps! < 1411900186 609353 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDSPISPOPD < 1411902416 326855 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411903315 429862 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411905415 209864 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411905613 469311 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411906462 976229 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1411906847 38946 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411908372 626524 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: not if the constant tag encodes the length of the file < 1411908387 881724 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.81.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411908434 747116 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: sure, but then it's no longer constant < 1411908447 850831 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: with the qualification of course that "any length" is upper bounded by a constant < 1411908501 426609 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.75.223 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1411908503 998272 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411908688 213197 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.188.81.167 QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411908707 233257 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.81.167 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411908830 790878 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411909217 695126 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411909348 520450 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best webdesign: phone number form can't be tabbed out or moved within with cursor keys (part of input validation, apparently) and the submit button fires a jQuery $.ajax request with only a "success" handler, which proceeds to fail (20-second timeout) and leave the page to a "please wait" + spinning thing mode. < 1411909448 72465 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, typical < 1411909471 71526 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Quit: BBL < 1411909657 431014 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411909709 261706 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411909709 449433 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411909747 360667 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411909762 697717 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would you need jquery to submit a form? < 1411909845 651976 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03MarylinYagan 5* 10New user account < 1411909878 414019 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :HackEgo: help < 1411909884 934070 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1411910086 812378 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of those multi-step "wizard"-style forms, except it's just the one page and they move from step to step with scripts that do ajax requests and populate the later steps based on the results, then animate fancy side-swipe things to move to the next step. < 1411910101 537083 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :T_T < 1411910156 937270 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if you could do it with a complicated css script that relies on the status of check boxes to hide or show other elements
< 1411910437 595527 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: stupid < 1411910450 685761 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude, my guess? "Yes, but don't" < 1411910457 707053 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411910462 330553 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to do it for the lulz < 1411910465 935016 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, this being #esoteric and me being me, I'll give it a go this evening probably < 1411910473 883304 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know enough CSS though < 1411910556 380948 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude, can you send me a @tell to remind me? I'm heading out now < 1411910561 298674 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhh < 1411910564 689509 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can send youa mmemo < 1411910566 57517 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :memo* < 1411910569 147914 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :with memoserv < 1411910577 692456 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or a tell with lambdabot < 1411910583 754886 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell GeekDude like this < 1411910584 60299 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1411910585 59585 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know these bots < 1411910597 298650 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1411910598 83765 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1411910635 268893 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :@tell Taneb GeekDude wonders if you could do it with a complicated css script that relies on the status of check boxes to hide or show other elements < 1411910635 480409 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider it noted. < 1411912012 450034 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411912026 333959 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.95.159 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411912074 260953 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.81.167 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411912132 215453 :AndoDaan_!~Daanando@188.189.95.159 NICK :AndoDaan < 1411912219 997857 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: the bots are our leaders. < 1411912223 977662 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar CYUL < 1411912224 606712 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYUL 281300Z 25010KT 15SM FEW240 18/15 A3013 RMK CI1 CI TR SLP202 DENSITY ALT 200FT < 1411912260 543123 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lead a guy on for a minute or two by copy and pasting into my IRC client. He though he had shell access on my bot < 1411912286 823267 :paul2520!~pi@unaffiliated/paul2520 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411912367 454619 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411912479 834553 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :hunter2? < 1411912597 463668 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411912721 735613 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411913122 256093 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Object oriented thue14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40548&oldid=40515 5* 034D enthusiast 5* (+139) 10/* stdio */ Simplified escpe codes, and made the description mroe explicit < 1411913369 778200 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411913472 451723 :int-e!~noone@static.88-198-179-137.clients.your-server.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar LOWI < 1411913473 106350 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOWI 281350Z VRB03KT CAVOK 25/13 Q1024 NOSIG < 1411913593 282641 :password2!~password@197.76.141.133 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411913753 812262 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411914134 764433 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar FLKK < 1411914135 277354 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :No result. < 1411914207 736578 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar FBSK < 1411914208 388445 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :FBSK 281400Z 04011KT CAVOK 33/00 Q1011 NOSIG < 1411914220 740261 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there's at least one! < 1411914233 185889 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, 33/00? what the fungot is that?) < 1411914233 376217 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: trouble with memory. i see things i never knew. my father secured me a place in an upper room of sabin's tavern near the docks along the southerly part of the strictly imaginative writing of the middle ages, and the < 1411914251 425747 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ah, trouble with water memory. I see. < 1411914251 856282 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: millennially fnord substance and a very much smaller polyhedron of unknown colours and rapidly shifting surface angles seemed to take place. yet some quality about it disturbed me almost as poignantly as its noxious cause i beheld in the misty sky above the waves. < 1411914282 549252 :sebbu!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebb < 1411914284 531156 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: trouble with fnord substance pollution causes botswana's relative humidity to drop. < 1411914284 719602 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :boily: worst of all, the victim was a writer and painter wholly devoted to this form is the living writer fnord level, whose very brief episodes have lent themselves so readily to theatrical fnord in the form of charles le sorcier!' < 1411914299 230008 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I can see clearly now the rain is gone < 1411914299 621654 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude: then, in the great mausoleum he built near the church as in the macabre posthumous novel dr. grimshawe's secret. i looked down upon the calm placid face lined with sorrow, stood by as i shouted my demands to be laid within the tomb, near the gate of deeper slumber. < 1411914308 34393 :sebb!~sebbu@unaffiliated/sebbu NICK :sebbu < 1411915213 680993 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411915298 653774 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411915402 164249 :scounder_!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 NICK :scounder < 1411915414 968181 :scounder!~scounder@2a01:7a0:10:151:236:17:48:1 QUIT :Changing host < 1411915415 196258 :scounder!~scounder@unaffiliated/scounder JOIN :#esoteric < 1411915615 489779 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :@metar EFHK < 1411915616 30757 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFHK 281420Z 21014KT 9999 FEW045 BKN200 15/10 Q1009 NOSIG < 1411915643 566576 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better than the 01/M01 from the beginning of the week, at least. < 1411916092 244301 :boily!~boily@96.127.201.149 QUIT :Quit: APERIODIC CHICKEN < 1411916290 328415 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.189.95.159 QUIT :Ping timeout: 250 seconds < 1411916346 357013 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.69.204 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411917284 12156 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411917287 429976 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Ping timeout: 245 seconds < 1411918035 944283 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411918459 504453 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Mang14]]4 N10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?oldid=40549 5* 03204.88.29.130 5* (+1432) 10create page < 1411919161 933985 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411919209 801327 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411919209 989074 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411919393 228386 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :@messages-loud < 1411919393 642859 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeekDude said 2h 25m 58s ago: GeekDude wonders if you could do it with a complicated css script that relies on the status of check boxes to hide or show other elements < 1411919599 482784 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1411919686 784702 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... mang is multitape-brainfuck? < 1411919803 779813 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was a "2D program, single tape for data" from the description. < 1411919841 455850 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a bit vague. < 1411919876 491948 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then again, I don't know at all what 04/05 would be in that case. < 1411919957 172301 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be something like voting how interesting a language is with an ordered list of results < 1411920075 678894 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :piet is the most abstract language ever invented < 1411920093 296376 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it turing complete? < 1411920093 490306 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1411920133 467744 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a stack based language < 1411920149 394497 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have the normal push, pop, add, mul, div, etc < 1411920262 297328 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an arbitrary-depth "roll" in Piet. < 1411920301 774165 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :So fun < 1411920306 272417 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a bignum variant, I'd say odds are good. < 1411920342 126063 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: arbitrary depth roll should be enough even without bignums I guess (as long as you have integers large enough to index the store) < 1411920600 60327 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The maximum size of integers is notionally infinite, though implementations may implement a finite maximum integer size." < 1411920610 548989 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the usual vague esolang spec. < 1411920739 237495 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, do you expect to have computer implementations with truly unbounded integer size? a opposed to just really large integer size with several gigabytes of data? < 1411920823 199376 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but putting a sentence like that in is an open call to get implementations with, say, 32-bit integers. < 1411920871 508655 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1411920896 391870 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 28 bit ones if the language has data types other the integers too < 1411920904 384276 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it keeps some bits for tags < 1411920924 578350 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 8 bit integers on a brainfuck-based interpreter < 1411920966 208482 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably can't go under 5 bits because you need character input and output < 1411921236 458509 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style fisher < 1411921236 653517 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) < 1411921237 948531 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What's up? < 1411921238 142489 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i live near a hospital now < 1411921258 770441 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What, have you moved out? I thought you were still in the next room there, and there's no hospital very near. < 1411921259 181008 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: um i don't think it's such a waste of time and it's not so easy to talk about um < 1411921282 445831 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I didn't say it was. But you might've told me you've moved! < 1411921282 687277 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: mm uh we had decided early on two months after that sigh i dunno i don't see too much < 1411921332 334799 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.69.204 QUIT :Ping timeout: 246 seconds < 1411921904 62279 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, there's no formal proof that piet is Turing complete < 1411921921 880867 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to esolangs.org (it is thought to be however) < 1411921958 37060 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TC < 1411921981 407578 :coppro!raedford@taurine.csclub.uwaterloo.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has stack rotation and that's enough < 1411922345 871138 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :SvenGek, someone wrote a brainfuck -> Piet compiler < 1411922392 304568 :Taneb!~Taneb@runciman.hacksoc.org PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.matthias-ernst.eu/pietbrainfuck.html < 1411922571 103726 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1411922596 434742 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the smoking gun then < 1411922645 138097 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.matthias-ernst.eu/pietbf/c8a92dcd9db101e8eed806df37b061a9.gif here's dbfi. mystery solved. < 1411922656 581035 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say it looks very exciting. < 1411922783 46756 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bottom bit is not too bad. < 1411922847 637019 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reminds me of this other project I saw recently < 1411922867 593610 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awis, which is a BF compiler written in BF < 1411922879 426405 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't you mean "awib"? < 1411922882 627338 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411922890 115841 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still amazed by it < 1411922928 857255 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah it's a constant interpreter and the program's up top. so kind of a boring compiler... < 1411922929 865738 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The polyglot-ness was fun. < 1411922939 391498 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know of any other "big" projects written in esoteric languages? < 1411922947 522633 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's biggish for a Befunge program. < 1411922947 715385 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it was also the same thing < 1411922958 365101 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :^source < 1411922958 560627 :fungot!fis@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://github.com/fis/fungot/blob/master/fungot.b98 < 1411922964 323901 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not "big" in absolute terms, though. < 1411922991 530635 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SvenGek: some of the ICFP and IOCCC stuff probably counts < 1411923015 992417 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :SvenGek: some ICFP contests, including this year's, define an esoteric language or two, and ask for a submission in that language < 1411923069 970497 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, that's pretty cool ^-^ < 1411923377 18674 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :SvenGek: Does Minecraft's redstone count as a language? or are NOT gates discounted < 1411923427 516669 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :is dwarf fortress considered an esolang? :p < 1411923508 570757 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc someone implemented GoL in GoL < 1411923532 226689 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :game of life? < 1411923548 735347 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411923551 699896 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are turing complete GoL rulesets. < 1411923554 63430 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP5-iIeKXE8 < 1411923567 462862 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have the http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters page if you're "into" that sort of stuff. < 1411923699 396737 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411923785 108662 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule seven: it's easy to be turing complete < 1411923976 384799 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411924023 53793 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: yes < 1411924035 567795 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: and so is Openttd < 1411924103 606668 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon yellow is turing complete < 1411924236 19938 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accidental TC kinda just happens. < 1411924314 371324 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411924462 964957 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411924562 133590 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1411924702 881039 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu JOIN :#esoteric < 1411924777 415908 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon yellow is a cheat, since it breaks out into the obviously TC processor. < 1411924791 530546 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might be able to do an ingame computer with inventory management. would be boring tho. < 1411925008 981277 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411925026 525496 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411925187 24440 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 PRIVMSG #esoteric :But... Magic: The Gathering TCness isn't a cheat < 1411925239 103812 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1411925872 249572 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish my brain were turing-complete < 1411925876 338483 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be pretty cool < 1411925972 335082 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411926016 335855 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.93.160 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411926066 177298 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the piet BF interpreter needs to be added that list < 1411926326 838499 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EsoInterpreters14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40550&oldid=37503 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+529) 10/* Main table */ Link the brainfuck interpreter in Piet. < 1411926340 272037 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :There. < 1411926455 838902 :copumpkin!~copumpkin@unaffiliated/copumpkin QUIT :Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz… < 1411926602 491202 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you trying to make a complete table, or ...well what's your purpose? < 1411926654 116080 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not my page. But I guess the table is there to encourage people to fill in the blanks. < 1411926772 655413 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411926779 476898 :augur!~augur@216-164-48-148.c3-0.slvr-ubr1.lnh-slvr.md.cable.rcn.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1411926785 713735 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the strikeouts mean? < 1411926789 631168 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder what "part of cycle" means < 1411926817 515238 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: part of a cycle means it is an edge of a directed cycle in the digraph of interpreters among languages, < 1411926838 588170 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can probably be used indirectly with the interpreters on the other edges to self-interpret a language < 1411926853 409637 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure there are some X's that could be parts of some cycles, though I haven't checked. < 1411926917 552122 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40551&oldid=39371 5* 03Fizzie 5* (+657) 10Update to reflect current reality. < 1411926936 654419 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that was my guess < 1411926969 246986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think the strikeouts are broken links. < 1411927056 98011 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411927097 473329 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe there are no more cycles in the table, as it stands. < 1411927140 110304 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07EsoInterpreters14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40552&oldid=40550 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+548) 10ais523's BCT->ResPlicate compiler (unsure whether to include oerjan's ResPairate-2 there or on its own line) < 1411927257 539614 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411927267 250960 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this is not a really well-defined question, but has anyone ever written a language, probably a forth-like or smalltalk-like or lisp-like, where not only the parser but also the memory allocator (cons) and garbage collector is implemented mostly in that same language (possibly with a little help from some primitives used only in those functions)? < 1411927368 173152 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard T implemented its GC in itself. < 1411927377 187792 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's "T"? < 1411927378 269815 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_%28programming_language%29 that is < 1411927393 545070 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and maru, duh. < 1411927413 251135 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably most forths? I thought primitive memory was like half the point of forth. < 1411927437 4833 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does forth even have gc...? < 1411927457 264931 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: the parser, sure, but I don't know whether they implement an allocator/gc in forth itself, or in machine code < 1411927510 2677 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1411927539 436649 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking on how possible this would be to do. I might try to implement one at some point. < 1411927549 513831 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://galileo.phys.virginia.edu/classes/551.jvn.fall01/primer.htm#memory yeah, i don't think forth even uses automatic memory managemetn. < 1411927580 423300 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: does it at least have a malloc and free? < 1411927595 649144 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is basically like malloc. < 1411927613 535261 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though i'm wondering about freeing. malloc is a pretty fucking complex function, this just says it's incrementing a pointer... < 1411927627 294028 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, if you don't want to free ever it's much easier < 1411927656 632112 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if you have a compacting garbage collector, but then everything else other than allocation becomes more complicated) < 1411927658 874143 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lars.nocrew.org/dpans/dpans14.htm#14.6.1.1605 well, there you go. < 1411927685 771756 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it even has realloc. < 1411927688 733742 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that one has a malloc-free < 1411927690 156144 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1411927756 136163 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an optional module. looks like the "core" words are just a pointer to open memory, jesus. < 1411927761 263741 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I might still try to implement something in an interpreter I make of course < 1411927764 251289 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is way more high level than forth, clearly < 1411927771 281073 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think (not 100% on this) that the gforth memory allocation words just call C library's malloc/realloc/free. < 1411927783 870554 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: might depend on which forth < 1411927789 981038 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, forth from which decade < 1411927796 370479 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why I said "gforth". < 1411927803 52870 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, this is ansi i'm looking at. < 1411927803 744174 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, gforth < 1411927807 33986 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's not the gforth manual. < 1411927812 978987 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looked so similar. :p < 1411927813 182350 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the primitives for memory allocation seem to be += and sbrk :p < 1411927833 288836 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and @ and ! yeah < 1411927835 749624 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that sounds right. < 1411927887 523502 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna bring this up next time someone tells me about using c for being Close To The Metal < 1411927912 673276 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"create x 10 cells allot" and so on. < 1411927916 313001 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: To the best of my understanding, in original-sort-of forth everything is a machine word. So it’s more like B than C I would think. < 1411927925 404692 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1411928019 844262 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for smalltalk, in -80 you had a defined VM, so probably they wrote the basic stuff in something "low level" like that < 1411928109 690678 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: I'm not sure, but I think they wrote the gc in machine language for that. maybe not. < 1411928219 696896 :drdanmaku!uid17782@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqdmgpvlfrzvpstz JOIN :#esoteric < 1411928288 720847 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: does C count? :p < 1411928301 709326 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, I guess it does < 1411928315 748989 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted more sort of a forth/smalltalk-like interpreter though < 1411928376 312613 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing GC in the language itself is "easy" enough -- expose an allocator, expose the stack so you can walk it for roots, and have a way to trace the children of an object (lisp satisfies this with a finite set of types just by casing on them), and have a free function < 1411928383 293333 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then wrap cons so it GCs if allocation fails, say < 1411928389 655058 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLAI has a sublanguage/library for writing garbage collectors. < 1411928391 969921 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you could find a Forth implementation of the allocate/free words. < 1411928413 110639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: yes, but you also have to make sure not to use more allocation during executing all that than you can clean up for, < 1411928431 812055 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at the same time not just call into machine language to do all the work. < 1411928459 658010 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the point is, you'd implement the free and malloc functions in the language too, using @ and ! and sbrk < 1411928465 713796 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and mmap and whatever) < 1411928490 668134 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having a "low-level" subset language is prettu popular. < 1411928509 981233 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: that applies in any language < 1411928516 347533 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: sure < 1411928518 990112 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: just preallocate a bunch of cons cells to use for the GC ahead of time :p < 1411928534 315565 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, you can do malloc and free too. < 1411928563 796623 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :just more fiddly. < 1411928564 125483 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try to implement something like this once < 1411928722 81110 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1411928724 769316 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm in the top 5 < 1411928725 985492 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1411928764 603415 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but large_decoy seems to have lost plenty of points < 1411928765 680387 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: in what? bfjoust? < 1411928770 681980 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: yes < 1411928791 328817 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1411928797 854814 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ais the only one above you? < 1411928808 588931 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais, quintopia und Lymia < 1411928812 870092 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1411928814 330579 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's worse < 1411928828 868105 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411928834 398832 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1411928838 368957 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're good? < 1411928855 219920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean now you can't just distract ais to get to the top < 1411928954 445889 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :although on a lose-win basis Lymia isn't beter < 1411928989 45561 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411929003 884915 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also Lymia.nyuroki doesn't stand a chance against cupnoodles :) < 1411929018 183076 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :cupnoodles wins 38/40 < 1411929088 34012 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki hangs on more decoys I guess < 1411929218 185468 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :on short tapes it just looses because cupnoodles rushes straight to the flag < 1411929228 129709 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas nyuroki is busy setting up decoys < 1411929233 328196 :tromp__!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1411929250 451051 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :nyuroki only wins on tape length 14 < 1411929327 74287 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :a zero cycle ] would btw make offset clears rather useless I guess < 1411929332 844463 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you don't have to pay for it anymore < 1411929338 789003 :tromp_!~tromp@ool-4570a006.dyn.optonline.net QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1411929391 193201 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1411929403 159921 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I leave the tape at tape length 14 < 1411929422 41922 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*5(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929422 482651 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.69, score 35.43, rank 5/47 (--) < 1411929427 617317 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*4(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929429 222161 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 10.24, score 33.30, rank 5/47 (--) < 1411929434 353148 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929434 948380 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.36, score 36.59, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411929440 594626 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*7(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929441 265970 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 10.81, score 34.25, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411929445 244484 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929445 764486 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.36, score 36.59, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411929479 507877 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess growth can suck it < 1411929501 312937 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: Terminated < 1411929528 967427 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*9[-].]>[(-)*9[+].])*-1 < 1411929529 972112 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.71, score 35.53, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929536 781058 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*7[-].]>[(-)*7[+].])*-1 < 1411929537 268095 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.60, score 35.47, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929544 540148 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de QUIT :Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3 < 1411929549 699479 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*5(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929550 366538 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.10, score 34.49, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411929555 719003 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*5(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*3(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929556 671906 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 8.43, score 30.32, rank 7/47 (-2) < 1411929560 190169 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*5(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929560 824519 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.10, score 34.49, rank 5/47 (+2) < 1411929568 369863 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929569 83383 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.36, score 36.59, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411929577 194220 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<--<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929578 102538 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.07, score 36.12, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929587 468844 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*21>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929588 189538 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.36, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929593 608251 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*21>(-)*21)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929594 105989 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.95, score 35.93, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929598 749004 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*21>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929599 159828 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.36, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411929613 107503 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*19>(-)*19)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929613 809533 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.10, score 34.68, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411929622 85534 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411929622 508748 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.36, score 36.59, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411929729 86127 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411929735 532384 :conehead!~conehead@67.10.235.179 QUIT :Changing host < 1411929735 744329 :conehead!~conehead@unaffiliated/conehead JOIN :#esoteric < 1411929804 96786 :Melvar!~melvar@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411929938 853987 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem JOIN :#esoteric < 1411930056 579235 :idris-bot!~ircslave@dslb-178-006-014-114.178.006.pools.vodafone-ip.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1411930680 538518 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40553&oldid=40551 5* 03Quintopia 5* (-8) 10changed the tenses to read like history < 1411931097 481206 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07BF Joust strategies14]]4 10 02http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40554&oldid=40529 5* 03Quintopia 5* (+220) 10/* 2014 */ NPOV to match the style of the rest of the page. < 1411931347 778006 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*4[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931348 150784 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.29, score 36.31, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931351 500604 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :"title: THE JAVELINISTS" "artist: A MINDLESS ROBOT DRONE" heh, I wonder what set these. < 1411931356 107285 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931356 453640 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.21, score 36.31, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931363 903187 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*10[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931364 331090 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.26, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931365 797782 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those were in a .mp3 file that contained a nonsense Finnish sentence, synthesized. < 1411931382 124084 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-].]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931382 490191 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.00, score 36.03, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931389 774852 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-.]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931390 179868 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 10.31, score 33.67, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411931409 152942 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*9[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+]])*-1 < 1411931409 555856 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.17, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411931418 944472 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931419 436085 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.21, score 36.31, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931425 656685 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-]]>[(-)*8[+]])*-1 < 1411931426 112155 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.67, score 35.23, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411931429 560330 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-]]>[(-)*8[+]])*-1 < 1411931429 842141 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.67, score 35.23, rank 5/47 (--) < 1411931432 630385 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-]]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931433 46714 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.12, score 36.04, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411931436 218505 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931436 611505 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.21, score 36.31, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931458 273537 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931458 706814 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.21, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931481 20912 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(+)*8[-]]>[(-)*8[+]]>)*2(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931481 318214 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.07, score 35.98, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931484 19546 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931484 419972 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.17, score 36.21, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931487 852975 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit it < 1411931512 750901 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931513 236674 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 10.36, score 33.62, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411931521 932799 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I cringe while thinking of the poor repository, every time I see these walls of parameter tunings. (Not that it's probably any sort of real problem.) < 1411931530 975499 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931531 304322 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.29, score 36.46, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411931539 436419 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<---(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931539 861784 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.26, score 36.46, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931545 242793 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<----(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931545 879321 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.69, score 35.39, rank 5/47 (-1) < 1411931551 251315 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931551 763366 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.29, score 36.46, rank 4/47 (+1) < 1411931554 661388 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: face it. people just don't seem to care about !bftest < 1411931563 356054 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest < 1411931563 572651 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: "!bftest progname code". See http://zem.fi/bfjoust/ for documentation. < 1411931563 572893 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to be the case. < 1411931568 938157 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1411931577 472576 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411931577 676092 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.29, score 36.46, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931589 463836 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*7[-].]>[(-)*9[+].])*-1 < 1411931589 696530 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.93, score 35.86, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931590 781626 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42987.access.telenet.be JOIN :#esoteric < 1411931597 723965 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]>)*4(-<-)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*9[-].]>[(-)*7[+].])*-1 < 1411931597 919997 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.86, score 35.66, rank 4/47 (--) < 1411931601 597721 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1411931613 523584 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly the same, except it doesn't change anything permanently, so if you find something good, you'll still want to submit it for reals. < 1411931620 133503 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03JanetteFreud 5* 10New user account < 1411931626 448171 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what... < 1411931629 268533 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck. spam bot. < 1411931632 839335 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not look BF Jousty enough < 1411931713 690713 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it could git commit --amend if the last !bfjoust was for that program and in the last minute or two < 1411931752 633996 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. Though it's pushed immediately to the web, and I'm sure lots of people keep cloning/pulling the repository every second. < 1411931847 311745 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's really any sort of performance problem for these oneliners. Was just thinking that only recording somehow "significant" changes would be a boon for BF Joust archeologists that analyze it in the 3000s. < 1411931889 947369 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're smart enough to figure it out, i bet < 1411931996 426710 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1411931999 936353 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the 3000s alright. < 1411932006 440186 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give the future some credit. < 1411932035 986323 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Cheap out on a Palauan domain or just buy the bloody .com and blow half my discretionary ... ? < 1411932071 170975 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1411932079 58872 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :domains aren't that expensive < 1411932080 860043 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is being somewhat facetious.
< 1411932101 288522 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I only budget about $20 for a silly project like this, so I'm not necessarily exaggerating. < 1411932268 184778 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are Palauan domains cheaper, then? < 1411932287 586003 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :what project? < 1411932357 517774 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932358 55547 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.45, score 36.25, rank 3/47 (+1) < 1411932400 462590 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I only have ais and lymia before me < 1411932408 261969 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: €3.13 a year on Namecheap. < 1411932461 511528 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: How comes that if I sumbit my rank 3 program < 1411932465 235047 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only gets me to rank 6? < 1411932480 241745 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(submit as test) < 1411932482 845852 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not for real) < 1411932498 815656 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]++>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932499 185534 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.50, score 34.94, rank 4/47 (-1) < 1411932505 360252 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+]]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932505 788563 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.45, score 36.30, rank 3/47 (+1) < 1411932542 465681 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932542 912407 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.60, score 36.59, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932558 523792 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you submit as a test over the web, it will be replacing a different program than if you do it over IRC (since the name is different), which means the competitors are not the same. < 1411932562 450419 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*8<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932562 874934 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 3.88, score 24.95, rank 11/47 (-8) < 1411932566 19864 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932566 375584 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.60, score 36.56, rank 3/47 (+8) < 1411932601 73620 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932601 293613 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.60, score 36.58, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932605 494558 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*5(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932605 688496 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 11.50, score 34.69, rank 5/47 (-2) < 1411932609 204102 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*7(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932609 490787 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 10.98, score 33.93, rank 5/47 (-2) < 1411932612 928481 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<-<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932613 563056 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.60, score 36.58, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932626 11629 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932626 209712 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.38, score 36.65, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932634 685627 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932634 949195 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.14, score 35.96, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932642 758536 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<+)*4<-(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932642 966575 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.36, score 36.33, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932648 673563 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<+)*4<---(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932648 871992 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.29, score 36.28, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932653 281104 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bftest cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<+)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932653 486178 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.38, score 36.42, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932675 77028 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!bfjoust cupnoodles (>)*9([(-)*8[+].]+>)*4(<)*4(<--<++)*4<--(>(+)*20>(-)*20)*4(>)*6(>[(+)*8[-].]>[(-)*8[+].])*-1 < 1411932675 499462 :zemhill!bfjoust@eos.zem.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_.cupnoodles: points 12.14, score 35.96, rank 3/47 (--) < 1411932678 823728 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1411932688 866533 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll get it into major programs :( < 1411932785 661259 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411932796 970601 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hate preparation < 1411932881 934948 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411932911 136907 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: trying to beat it, you mean? < 1411932929 402899 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. I just hate it out of hatred. < 1411932934 122950 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps it was a general statement about the concept of preparing for something. < 1411932950 27678 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was aimed at ais523.preperation < 1411932956 534135 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :*preparation < 1411933035 993536 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1411933042 820560 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :large_decoy just moved 34 ranks upwards < 1411933046 652763 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :forwhatever reason < 1411933088 120961 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and athena moved down hard < 1411933097 778973 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :[wiki] 14[[07Special:Log/newusers14]]4 create10 02 5* 03AudraGottschalk 5* 10New user account < 1411933156 751783 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many "real" accounts are there that never were here? < 1411933178 806210 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not implement IRC confirmation < 1411933182 360030 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than captcha < 1411933188 334662 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called two-factor-spam-protect < 1411933192 495492 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :captcha + token over IRC < 1411933201 113061 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: that's exactly my idea < 1411933233 890557 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it would be impossible to write an ircbot for that to continue spamming < 1411933234 977216 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we want to make use of freenode a requirement for getting an esowiki account. < 1411933255 226467 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even though it'd probably be very efficient. < 1411933275 611638 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1411933279 432869 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: well, i do think these spam accounts aren't really aimed at esolangs.org rather than any mediawiki < 1411933284 42237 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can access it neatly through the webchat < 1411933312 652568 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if you have, say, philosophical objections about the network. < 1411933314 625658 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but didn't somebody add those stupid questions? < 1411933324 396253 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "In which year was fukyobrainz invented"? < 1411933355 627343 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn fukyobrainz is yet another brainfuck derivative however with identical instructions. < 1411933357 695765 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1411933362 326525 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what is the current featured language" < 1411933390 236812 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :The real challenge is to decide whether it's a brainfuck or fukyobrainz program < 1411933398 38032 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :studies show it might be impossible. < 1411933404 165780 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: AFAICT, every now and then the spammers hire a human to teach the spambots all the CAPTCHA answers < 1411933410 905394 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is to just give fizzie more captchas. < 1411933432 244089 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: make fukyobrainz needing a ; at the end of every line but the last < 1411933436 494865 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally someone would just download an XML wiki dump, and generate a billion was created in what year? questions < 1411933443 659102 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the localsettings.php format < 1411933446 700214 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then give them to fizzie < 1411933464 401458 :AndoDaan!~Daanando@188.188.93.160 QUIT :Ping timeout: 244 seconds < 1411933465 905607 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the captcha used when signing up logged? that'd make it obvious which ones to delete < 1411933477 45259 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: you don't need a full wiki dump for that, just the yearh categories < 1411933485 521199 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: true < 1411933489 556603 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there used to be a site which only had "insert 'php' here" as a captcha < 1411933492 871178 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: you want to only include pages in Category:Languages, though < 1411933494 4365 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked pretty well < 1411933509 92898 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: but you kind of want to base it on the actual articles, because making people scroll down to the yearcats to sign up is mean < 1411933534 942433 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :"insert a bfjoust program capable of entering the hill" < 1411933538 109157 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :best captcha . < 1411933540 551785 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: hehe < 1411933548 495084 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then they'd just copy ais's program < 1411933552 150349 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could ask "name one of your favorite esolangs" < 1411933568 999115 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't even realize I'm involved in the captcha-setting process, I was assuming they could be changed inside the wiki somehow. < 1411933582 267178 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :myname: no, we want to involve new people who don't yet have one < 1411933592 185639 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus we don't have a way to check that < 1411933598 578798 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't have articles on all esolangs yet < 1411933604 974317 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't? < 1411933611 853092 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt even I could get on the hill in one attempt, without using an existing program < 1411933616 976399 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: I have like five todo listed on my user page < 1411933630 911956 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1411933640 134958 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hill's so good nowadays < 1411933640 340403 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:B_jonas < 1411933670 849718 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's plenty of vaporware esolangs by me that don't have articles < 1411933677 242356 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to being vaporware < 1411933683 942847 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about “write a program printing the sequence of prime numbers in unary in brainfuck” < 1411933695 150583 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411933703 457806 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just have to interpret them and check the first few thousand characters of output < 1411933717 994182 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though... if they write something that takes like double exponential space and time, we might not be able to < 1411933723 890492 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :so better give a restriction on time and space < 1411933737 646564 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're just hardcoded in LocalSettings.php. < 1411933749 764824 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you could even programmatically generate them, though they'd have to persist across the two requests < 1411933760 153936 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :openttd signals? < 1411933764 637155 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: ++++++[>++++++++<-]>[.] < 1411933767 660815 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an esolang based on that? < 1411933774 454439 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: they're an esolang as is < 1411933776 362517 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't say anything about seperators < 1411933776 964059 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (and also doing expensive things in LocalSettings.php is a poor idea, obviously.) < 1411933791 10347 :myname!~myname@84.200.43.57 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, add a + < 1411933804 118297 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how much current crop of bots rely on the field element names. < 1411933809 754324 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: they have only a few primitives, but capable of much more than those were desigend for, that's certainly a mark of a esolang in my book < 1411933813 442544 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: just ask zzo < 1411933822 938260 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not :) < 1411933824 134207 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think mediawiki randomises them? maybe it doesn't < 1411933839 380198 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :The captcha input box is just called "wpCaptchaWord". < 1411933844 297782 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you need railways and trains and maybe bridges and tunnels besides signals obviously) < 1411933845 539553 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1411933847 732425 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :But they could easily go by document structure. < 1411933854 730353 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :randomising POST/GET params would probably help < 1411933873 367932 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could insert fake ones < 1411933876 494085 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: no. spammers probably take those from the html anyway, to attack multiple webpages < 1411933893 769130 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1411933908 717889 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add some forms < 1411933911 864648 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hide them with css < 1411933926 650508 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen the "don't fill anything here" approach in a couple of places. < 1411933933 660989 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and screw people who don't have css support) < 1411933949 796672 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: these days luckily you can hide stuff with a html5 attribute as well as css < 1411933954 475523 :J_Arcane!~j_arcane@dsl-trebrasgw2-50de97-172.dhcp.inet.fi PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, missed a question; quintopia: This is the project. https://github.com/jarcane/HateStack < 1411933969 713608 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure how many browsers eat the html5 attribute, you can use both that and a css rule < 1411933984 188550 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very useful because it stops hidden stuff from showing up before the css has a chance to load < 1411934021 269578 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e$==0,(1x$_)=~/^(|()1(?1)(?1)\2)$(?{$=++})^/,print$=,$"for 0..13 < 1411934024 640015 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 2 5 14 42 132 429 1430 4862 16796 58786 208012 742900 < 1411934031 124179 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1411934038 667466 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catalan numbers < 1411934040 614442 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@oeis 1,2,5,14,42,132 < 1411934042 97046 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Catalan numbers: C(n) = binomial(2n,n)/(n+1) = (2n)!/(n!(n+1)!). Also called... < 1411934043 673854 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :variant of http://www.perlmonks.com/?node_id=813859 < 1411934059 743918 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :parent node has code for fibonacci < 1411934072 200110 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can golf that down one character using print"$= " rather than print$=,$" < 1411934080 940633 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless $, has been set, and I don't think it has been < 1411934092 799276 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e$==0,(1x$_)=~/^(|()1(?1)(?1)\2)$(?{$=++})^/,print"$= "for 0..13 < 1411934093 311562 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the original obfu uses the -l switch instead to print newlines < 1411934096 14262 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 2 5 14 42 132 429 1430 4862 16796 58786 208012 742900 < 1411934108 488074 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -le$==0,(1x$_)=~/^(|()1(?1)(?1)\2)$(?{$=++})^/,print$=for 0..13 < 1411934112 537187 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 \ 1 \ 2 \ 5 \ 14 \ 42 \ 132 \ 429 \ 1430 \ 4862 \ 16796 \ 58786 \ 208012 \ 742900 < 1411934116 256041 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1411934125 66067 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't look so good on irc so I wanted a quick fix < 1411934130 836885 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're right, that's one shorter < 1411934200 280894 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :one shorter as in http://www.xkcd.com/670/ < 1411934249 17485 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`?brainfuck < 1411934249 471389 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​/home/hackbot/hackbot.hg/multibot_cmds/lib/limits: line 5: exec: ?brainfuck: not found < 1411934251 284306 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brainfuck < 1411934252 339348 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck is the integral of the family of terrible esolangs. < 1411934258 357638 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1411934266 824304 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brainfuck_derivative < 1411934267 393369 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck_derivative? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934270 671541 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? brainfuck derivative < 1411934271 196471 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck derivative? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934291 257845 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1411934293 366596 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you do that? < 1411934296 742277 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn "a b" is ab < 1411934298 285042 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1411934299 735556 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? a b < 1411934300 260335 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934303 579095 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? "a b" < 1411934305 741657 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"a b"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934307 993563 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1411934311 564746 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? " < 1411934312 105883 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934314 530690 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? "a < 1411934315 176568 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :​"a b" is ab < 1411934317 561833 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1411934318 244784 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1411934323 107704 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`forget "a < 1411934324 436337 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget what? < 1411934326 994059 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -e$==1,(1x$_)=~/(^)(1|11\1)*(?{$=++})^/,print"$= "for 0..20 # Fibonacci < 1411934327 605488 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 < 1411934367 793367 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this one fit in a line for HackEgo? < 1411934383 643155 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -esub h($){($_=$_[0]=pack b208,0 .unpack b362,$_[0])=~tr/\0-\c?/\0/;tr/\0/\377/c;$_}do{$y=$r;$v=join$r='',a..z;$r^=h$r&"\217"x26^h$v&$y for 0..6;$r^=$_ x26}for"k6sNP2B}({ambrusLB%Ox)Z]n0*zf\0I3"=~/./g;print$r < 1411934384 194664 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just another Perl hacker, < 1411934385 228820 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? password < 1411934385 996062 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :password? ¯\(°​_o)/¯ < 1411934390 711014 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does fit, great < 1411934427 412015 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`? Burlesque < 1411934443 212534 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1411934447 352130 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :burlesque is only the sexiest language on earth. < 1411934465 310023 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah right. I secretly added that a while ago. < 1411934527 838369 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/EsoInterpreters < 1411934534 15018 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :^- yeah. This is utterly incomplete :D < 1411934539 457941 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411934547 350135 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be really huge if it were complete. < 1411934631 218409 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "abcdefgh"0 0 8rn10.+si < 1411934631 859391 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "cfgdbbgebd" < 1411934636 135801 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq "abcdefgh"1 0 8rn10.+si < 1411934636 658378 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "fhecebcbhh" < 1411934649 707071 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq @AZr\1 0 8rn10.+si < 1411934650 131501 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "FHECEBCBHH" < 1411934657 431422 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq @AZr\1 0 26rn10.+si < 1411934657 894561 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "XQELEKCTHZ" < 1411934664 679435 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq @AZr\1 0 26rn16.+si < 1411934665 162207 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : "XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR" < 1411934698 111677 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :`learn password is XQELEKCTHZVBDBQR < 1411934700 928138 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I knew that. < 1411934714 871917 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most likely the password to life, the universe and all that) < 1411934786 307539 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unsafe is unsafePeformIO randomRIO < 1411934789 881981 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that do? random generates < 1411934791 267288 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1411934797 738446 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :rn is random integers < 1411934810 588672 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1411934816 958420 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 10rn10.+ < 1411934817 373881 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {7 10 2 4 3 1 8 4 4 0} < 1411934821 599596 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ?16$26 < 1411934826 546423 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :] ?16$26 < 1411934826 862252 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it yields an infinite amount of random numbers) < 1411934827 289295 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: 19 17 21 16 24 21 17 14 5 22 23 23 10 9 9 20 < 1411934837 395288 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why 10.+ (.+ for lists is take) < 1411934843 722859 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 10rn10.+ < 1411934844 226481 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {7 10 2 4 3 1 8 4 4 0} < 1411934856 859267 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :] u:65+?16$26 < 1411934857 536336 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :b_jonas: WKUEHQXADALXNIUX < 1411934864 71924 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, System.Random isn't consistent over plattforms < 1411934878 591432 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recently discovered that Burlesque on anagol yields different numbers < 1411935021 645555 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint int(rand 100), " " for (1..10) < 1411935022 176459 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :33 35 90 18 93 19 93 89 23 5 < 1411935023 46675 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :`perl -eprint int(rand 100), " " for (1..10) < 1411935029 14693 :HackEgo!~HackEgo@162.248.166.242 PRIVMSG #esoteric :71 97 74 98 81 74 13 29 32 73 < 1411935030 362136 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeded automatically, I guess. < 1411935086 270074 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, perl is < 1411935105 410695 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't have auto-seed without IO < 1411935113 402569 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but it doesn't use a very good random generator, or too much seed space) < 1411935119 913613 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> mkStdGen 0 < 1411935121 281953 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :mroman_: you could have the bot auto-seed the program < 1411935121 851931 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 1 < 1411935135 994994 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the environment the bot provides could pass a seed when it evals a line for you < 1411935140 320497 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> randomRs 0 10 (mkStdGen 0) < 1411935142 351437 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : Couldn't match expected type ‘System.Random.StdGen -> t’ < 1411935142 940076 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : with actual type ‘[a0]’ < 1411935147 411989 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :@type randomRs < 1411935148 668134 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Random a, RandomGen g) => (a, a) -> g -> [a] < 1411935162 768290 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :> take 5 $ randomRs (0,10) (mkStdGen 0) < 1411935164 668518 :lambdabot!~lambdabot@silicon.int-e.eu PRIVMSG #esoteric : [0,3,6,8,7] < 1411935169 160920 :b_jonas!~x@russell2.math.bme.hu PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jevalbot actually seeds the random generator, though you could do that directly inside the jeval prompt by hand too, so it's just convenience < 1411935170 995211 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :!blsq 0 0 10rn5.+ < 1411935171 393842 :blsqbot!~blsqbot@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric : {7 10 2 4 3} < 1411935181 447664 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1411935186 788142 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambdabot yields different numbers as well < 1411935211 129282 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's up with hackage's every-now-and-then broken documentation? E.g. http://hackage.haskell.org/package/random-1.1 is gone; have to look at 1.0.1.3 instead. < 1411935229 137003 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've noticed that too < 1411935234 645196 :mroman_!~roman2@fmnssun.ibone.ch PRIVMSG #esoteric :recent packages usually have no doc < 1411935285 685442 :fizzie!fis@unaffiliated/fizzie PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's recent, 12 days ago. < 1411935349 381197 :FreeFull!~freefull@defocus/sausage-lover QUIT :Ping timeout: 260 seconds < 1411935655 870502 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411936468 71989 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin QUIT :Ping timeout: 272 seconds < 1411936557 528147 :dianne!~hianne@unaffiliated/dianne QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411936565 843421 :dianne!~hianne@unaffiliated/dianne JOIN :#esoteric < 1411936682 5344 :shikhin!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411937545 463539 :SvenGek!~scht@2602:30a:c079:8ed0:518b:3f58:fa62:7720 QUIT :Quit: bye < 1411937556 288125 :GeekDude!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekAfk < 1411938099 966386 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1411938414 306303 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411938463 966749 :Sorella!~queen@191.185.197.120 QUIT :Changing host < 1411938464 153938 :Sorella!~queen@oftn/member/Sorella JOIN :#esoteric < 1411938837 622480 :GeekAfk!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude QUIT :Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com) < 1411939158 285866 :AnotherTest!~turingcom@d51A42987.access.telenet.be QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411939258 392420 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover JOIN :#esoteric < 1411939462 995460 :Patashu!~Patashu@c27-253-115-204.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au QUIT :Ping timeout: 240 seconds < 1411940588 375331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1411941882 379685 :Vorpal!~Vorpal@unaffiliated/vorpal QUIT :Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net < 1411942509 178328 :Frooxius!~Frooxius@cust-101.ktknet.cz QUIT :Quit: *bubbles away* < 1411942764 3928 :perrier!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411942819 330222 :perrier!~cinch@107.170.175.57 QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411942825 303829 :TieSoul_!~TieSoul@5ED55308.cm-7-6b.dynamic.ziggo.nl QUIT :Read error: Connection reset by peer < 1411942891 545908 :perrier!~cinch@107.170.175.57 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411944512 580310 :drlemon!~drlemon@cpe-24-24-207-214.socal.res.rr.com QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411945191 122833 :evalj!~jeval@5400EEA5.dsl.pool.telekom.hu QUIT :Remote host closed the connection < 1411945362 947939 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric : ideally someone would just download an XML wiki dump, and generate a billion was created in what year? questions <-- i'll point out that if ais523's theory of "occasionally hiring a human to break CAPTCHAs" is correct, we _don't_ want to use all of the CAPTCHAs simultaneously; rather we'd rotate to a new subset whenever the spam starts picking up. < 1411945398 424405 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah. if you have hundreds, though, I doubt they'd bother cracking every single one. < 1411945409 644443 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially since there's no real way to know when you're "done" or not other than refreshing a bunch. < 1411945425 854607 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect they just occasionally get someone to solve one or two of them. < 1411945430 431265 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all they need < 1411945435 547004 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can refresh until you get a captcha you know < 1411945440 603131 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm right < 1411945460 97764 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why logging the ones used for registration would be useful < 1411945460 319418 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case we can have just _one_ captcha in each bunch :P < 1411945470 596670 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like CLC-INTERCAL's CAPTCHA < 1411945471 724624 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1411945476 382205 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could try that < 1411945479 253697 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :it asks you to evaluate some INTERCAL < 1411945490 622330 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :more captchas feels intuitively better but I suppose there is no inherent reason for that < 1411945491 200318 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has a link to the relevant page of the manual, which is rigged to have the CAPTCHA you were just asked as an example < 1411945521 775997 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess forcing them to refresh a lot before hitting the right one might slow them down... < 1411945533 291331 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ideally we'd probably want your logging. < 1411945598 541460 :GeekAfk!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude JOIN :#esoteric < 1411945606 960504 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then just replace the one used with the next in the unused queue < 1411945789 332085 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess if your suspicion they only solve one or two is right, there isn't really any point in having an unused queue, as long as there are plenty left. < 1411945832 269964 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would be too expensive for the spammers to pay someone to solve a lot of the captchas. < 1411945888 477096 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'm coming around to completely agreeing with elliott_ here < 1411945917 205454 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, throttling them to only solve one per batch seems reasonable < 1411945968 522070 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we should have one simple CAPTCHA and replace it when they figure it out. the "slowdown" from making them refresh until they find a captcha they know wouldn't matter; it might matter if they skipped that registration attempt altogether and forgot about it if they didn't know the captcha but frankly spam that registers users doesn't seem to be very fast or common. < 1411945977 970150 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might want to do some logging first to get data on how many they actually _are_ solving at once. < 1411945994 251504 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes them months to start registering after rotating the captchas < 1411946000 111641 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think we've already given it more thought than it warrants. < 1411946055 283369 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess you're right the spam isn't frequent enough that refreshing is a real issue < 1411946084 686589 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that these are the spambots that haven't figured out newlines yet < 1411946104 989409 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :which strongly implies that they aren't targeting our spam filter in particular < 1411946125 211568 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless they actually _are_ dropping the attempt until next time they come around, in which case they might not be refreshing and we are lucky that they only have solved one CAPTCHA or so < 1411946165 214775 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe we need to log refreshings too :P < 1411946336 687247 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't think it would be that bad even if they knew every captcha. < 1411946350 399951 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% of spam is anonymous stuff that's being caught just fine. < 1411946351 987466 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's true, but there would still be different behavior whether they're doing (1) try registering with the CAPTCHA, once, then move on to next victim; or (2) try registering with the CAPTCHA, refresh several times at once before giving up and moving on < 1411946365 953563 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1411946372 64254 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it's (1). < 1411946374 458364 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're doing (1) then having very few captchas would greatly help them. < 1411946375 482476 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: it spams the new user log < 1411946378 75763 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) is believable, though < 1411946397 687549 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but it's okay to have a few new users every few months < 1411946402 478994 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to rotate out the captcha when it happens < 1411946415 662886 :GeekAfk!~GeekDude@unaffiliated/g33kdude NICK :GeekDude < 1411946457 143701 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as in, if we had just one CAPTCHAs and (1) then the spammers might manage to completely flood recent changes with new registrations before we get around to stopping them) < 1411946479 644297 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they could easily achieve this by doing (2) instead < 1411946513 850915 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :in either case (1) or (2), having hundreds of CAPTCHAs would cut back on the number of successes < 1411946651 210729 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are online BF interpreters, right? could we link to one? < 1411946659 492299 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the #1 reason to use one captcha: ais523 is more likely to give fizzie one captcha when registrations start happening than we are to figure out how to track down what captchas were used to remove them < 1411946659 682934 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and give people some BF to run and type in the answer? < 1411946673 281491 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :all this effort devoted to it is a waste. < 1411946679 191618 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could use a script to generate thousands of captchas like that < 1411946749 999506 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think elliott_ is right, provisionally. < 1411946780 555296 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to say: we revise the plan if they are managing to get in every week < 1411946794 590543 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this BF CAPTCHA idea < 1411946799 85945 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Q: In which year was 0x29A created? A: 2004 < 1411946803 971654 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: please replace the existing captchas with this < 1411946809 990190 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main reason i feel like logging is a good idea is that we'd then know without too many more attempts why our plan fails when it does < 1411946815 475693 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unless that exact captcha is in the comments, in which case, heh < 1411946825 263281 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just pulled up Special:Random a few times.) < 1411946874 904392 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i note one thing though: if all our CAPTCHAs keep being year numbers we'd eventually be vulnerable to a spammer who doesn't actually read the questions... < 1411946875 664391 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you manage to find an online interp that takes code in its links so that the registerer doesn't have to do quite so much work, it is a good way of generating captchas. < 1411946897 101834 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you know what'll be a problem before that? < 1411946907 838401 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :in like 20 years, all of ais523's spam blocks are going to start getting undone in a trickle < 1411946908 208774 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: universe heat death hth < 1411946917 136923 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1411946922 330627 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you solve that you can spend this much time worrying about captchas < 1411946927 791655 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: I doubt they'll still be trying after 24 years < 1411946932 104170 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if they are, we can just block again < 1411946937 801961 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :elliott_: i'm sure we can programmatically prolong them < 1411946974 474762 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i think elliott's onto something here. if we know the heat death is coming, why are we not working on the problem now? < 1411947034 431050 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's the biggest problem: nobody will care about esolangs when we're all wireheads < 1411947055 827232 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :the heat death of the universe is an existential threat. why is there no international organization dedicated to trying to prevent it? < 1411947133 728959 :elliott_!~elliott@unaffiliated/elliott PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's on some singularitarians' agenda. < 1411947163 186747 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because we expect technological and scientific progress to get sufficiently far in a few centuries that it would be useless to start _now_ on planning against something which our current theories say is impossible to avoid < 1411947191 885005 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: those advances will come from what we do _now_. why procrastinate? < 1411947230 850720 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: you can help by trying to make the world more efficient < 1411947240 81775 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that the needed scientific and technological advances come sooner < 1411947242 652289 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay let's start with not wasting time on captchas < 1411947252 482063 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: because we're not at the point where we can distinguish "what we need to do to prevent heat death" from "what we need to do to achieve general scientific progress, at least in physics" < 1411947268 811614 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: "wasting" time on captchas now saves time wasted clearing up after spambots later < 1411947269 967199 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: then that's something we can work on! < 1411947278 99596 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: and people do! < 1411947337 77333 :quintopia!~quintopia@unaffiliated/quintopia PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i've yet to see an organization whose stated purpose is "figuring out which direction to advance science and technology in order to find out how to prevent maxentropy" < 1411947406 40050 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 JOIN :#esoteric < 1411947432 698642 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 QUIT :Disconnected by services < 1411947436 692789 :callforjudgement!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 NICK :ais523 < 1411947482 967645 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :quintopia: that's because we're busy at "figuring out how not to destroy ourselves long before we reach a level where we'd have a *chance* at figuring out how to prevent maxentropy". also, i should eat. < 1411947531 898595 :Sprocklem!~sprocklem@unaffiliated/sprocklem QUIT :Ping timeout: 258 seconds < 1411947532 975669 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that's wrong. < 1411947557 321208 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :we might very well have a chance, it just takes a surprise discovery in physics. < 1411947594 76541 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :what we don't have is the _necessity_. < 1411947652 849062 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here's a problem. You want to create a variable the same size as socklen_t. One fairly obvious solution would be to declare a variable of type socklen_t. That's not how OpenSSL does things, however. Instead, let's create a union of a couple different ints, call accept(), then inspect the different union members to determine which ones were overwritten by the kernel. Oh, and don't forget to check for big endian versus little endian. < 1411947677 665299 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, after the heat death, doesn't entropy start decreasing as some of the homogenous cloud of mildly warm iron atoms end up expanding beyond the edge of the observable universe? < 1411947679 260324 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the universe won't die in the < million years it will take us to either solve the problems we cause ourselves, or die. < 1411947801 962182 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the second law doesn't state entropy always rises, just that it lowering is exponentially unlikely. what's to protect from! < 1411948239 811308 :zzo38!~zzo38@24-207-58-35.eastlink.ca PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does OpenSSL do such stupid way? < 1411948279 115659 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenSSL is a "fun way to learn C". < 1411948279 792904 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think the second law says anything about entropy in the _observable_ universe. < 1411948304 642052 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in that case, is it possible to keep going indefinitely via shipping off entropy past the edge of the observable universe? < 1411948310 617104 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i'd interpret that as entropy _density_ decreasing, not entropy itself. < 1411948333 211455 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't ship things out of the observable universe... < 1411948344 675470 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: actually you can. < 1411948363 743514 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you'd have to move stuff faster than you can see it. < 1411948367 423421 :Bike!~Glossina@stepheast-v394-wired-gw.net.wsu.edu PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's pretty fast. < 1411948374 753450 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :speed of light is plenty fast enough, isn't it? < 1411948397 688034 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, then you have another problem, whereby the observable universe runs out of energy < 1411948404 423091 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't think it's possible to get energy in from outside < 1411948430 507652 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bike: you just need to move it far enough away that the universe's general expansion takes over. < 1411948462 896044 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are stars leaving our observable universe as we speak, probably. < 1411948552 285516 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the lack of energy means that the _maximal_ entropy density also decreases, i think < 1411948585 605734 :oerjan!oerjan@sprocket.nvg.ntnu.no PRIVMSG #esoteric :so entropy / maximal entropy for the energy remaining might still be increasing even if something leaves the OU < 1411948588 570204 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's hope we find a way around both the first and second laws of thermodynamics, then < 1411948598 372482 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :vacuum energy seems promising < 1411948666 447134 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to point out that the expansion of the universe already violates conservation of energy < 1411948675 289605 :shikhout!~shikhin@unaffiliated/shikhin JOIN :#esoteric < 1411948705 217329 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phantom_Hoover: hmm, in that you could, say, take two weights, place them very far apart with an elastic band stretched between them? < 1411948710 433561 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh? What, did someone suggest they were writing OpenSSL code in order to learn C? < 1411948727 779698 :ais523!~ais523@unaffiliated/ais523 PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how you could get the energy out afterwards, though < 1411948728 55980 :pikhq!~pikhq@deagol.pikhq.com PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: *That's a quote from the guy who wrote it initially*. < 1411948728 818506 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :the example i read was a photon being redshifted and losing energy into nothing < 1411948732 263531 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :Been a while since I looked at OpenSSL Rampage < 1411948734 151346 :Sgeo!~quassel@ool-44c2aebc.dyn.optonline.net PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: o.O < 1411948782 279422 :Phantom_Hoover!~phantomho@unaffiliated/phantom-hoover PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the real justification was that the expansion isn't time-symmetric and so noether's law doesn't apply