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00:08:18 <Phantom_Hoover> does tokenising gs2 with regexes make nooodl a bad person
00:10:31 <ais523> also, I doubt it's "wantonly creates BF derivatives and posts them to the wiki" levels of beign a bad person
00:12:16 <ais523> Phantom_Hoover: that tokenising regex is something within the power of regexes, basically because there's no nesting involved
00:12:34 <ais523> so I'd say it's within the technical realms of what regex can do
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00:37:06 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Abuse filter * blocked [[User:SilkeEberly]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Automatically blocked by abuse filter. Description of matched rule: first edit is to user page and contains spambot-like use of br tag
00:38:12 <ais523> ooh, it started working
00:38:43 <ais523> let me go and manually confirm what the account was up to, given that it's the first automatic spambot block /ever/
00:39:28 <ais523> "I'm Ludie and I live in a seaside city in northern Switzerland, Tossriederen. I'm 27 and I'm will soon finish my study at Religious Studies.<br><br>My webpage: [http://example.com http://example.com]" (I changed the URL)
00:40:12 <ais523> it's not as obviously spam as normal, but it has many indicators (<br><br>, and the crazy URL duplication) of being generated by a spambot framework
00:40:17 <ais523> that, and the clickthrough warning
00:41:11 <ais523> haha, also, the same user had tried to make a similar edit yesterday
00:41:56 <int-e> must be human then, certainly no bot would show such flexibility ;-)
00:43:56 <ais523> my main regret is that I can't tweak it to reduce the block lengths to 24 years
00:44:16 <ais523> oh well, if a spambot actually gets past the filter and I have to block them manually, 24 years it is
00:44:23 <ais523> that way, we can identify fast filter breaches more easily
00:45:08 <ais523> huh, actually it's the third such block
00:45:13 <ais523> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Log/Abuse_filter
00:46:39 <int-e> fwiw, the discrepancy between SilkeEberly and "I'm Ludie" would be enough to convince me.
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00:58:27 <zzo38> I wrote this code for multiplication in 6502 codes http://sprunge.us/GDBJ How can I fix it please?
01:06:33 <elliott_> ais523: I'm not sure the blocks are actually good.
01:06:36 <elliott_> they clutter up recent changes
01:07:03 <ais523> I was thinking, let's leave it like this for a while and see if we like it better or worse
01:07:15 <ais523> they're likely to make the abuse filter less spammy, at least
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01:09:29 <elliott_> yeah, but only you look at that :)
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01:11:08 <ais523> elliott_: more seriously, these blocks are autoblock enabled
01:11:14 <ais523> so they'll also stop the IP doing anything for 24 horus
01:11:29 -!- Sprocklem has joined.
01:11:50 <ais523> and for another 24 hours if the bot attempts to use the account again
01:11:53 <ais523> which many of these spambots do
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01:31:58 <ais523> I'm tempted to answer "there's actually a middle name between the ais and the 523"
01:33:30 <ais523> names are pretty flexible anyway
01:33:49 <ais523> e.g. see the various oklopol spellings, or omd at Agora
01:34:09 <ais523> I'm disappointed that the mandatory signatures rule got repealed, it was hilarious
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02:34:13 <Sgeo> Mandatory signatures rule?
02:43:16 <ais523> Sgeo: a rule that every email to a-b/a-o/backup had to have a signature that identified the person sending it
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02:56:49 <zemhill> sj47d1.atom: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-18)
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03:07:12 <zzo38> I don't like the definition of pi (or tau) having to do with circles
03:08:14 <Taneb> zzo38, what definition would you prefer?
03:08:58 <zzo38> I prefer tau is the smallest positive solution of x for e^ix=0 which I think is the case
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03:09:25 <Taneb> I thought e^i*tau = 1?
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03:09:30 <zzo38> (Is it? I think it is a mistake...)
03:09:38 <zzo38> Yes, 1 is it should be; thank you
03:09:45 <zzo38> I made a mistake which I realized right away
03:10:29 <ais523> I thought e^itau = e^0i = 1
03:10:58 <zzo38> Yes you are correct
03:11:17 <zzo38> I made a mistake which I had realized right away after sending the line
03:11:53 <Taneb> zzo38, I think your definition and the circle definition are equivalent
03:12:15 <shachaf> Complex exponentiation seems more complicated than circles. But circles might be misleadingly complicated.
03:12:31 <coppro> Taneb: but one is more rigorous and beautiful
03:12:57 <zzo38> shachaf: Well, I wanted to use numerical solutions rather than geometrical
03:13:04 <shachaf> By "equivalent" do you mean anything more than "they're both equal to pi"?
03:13:36 <Bike> well, if you take exponentiation to be defined by circles or vice versa
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03:14:09 <shachaf> Real numbers are so complicated anyway.
03:15:43 <Taneb> shachaf, Taylor series suggest e^ix = cos x + i sin x
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03:15:54 <Bike> don't need your spooky maths up in this
03:15:56 <Taneb> And cos and sin are generally defined in terms of geometry?
03:16:00 <zzo38> Also you have e^x you can have the infinite series to work it
03:16:20 <Jafet> cos and sin are generally defined by their power series
03:16:31 <Bike> where are you from
03:17:01 <Taneb> At the very least, they can be defined in terms of geometry
03:17:04 <zzo38> Jafet: Yes and if you use complex number it is even like e^x series too
03:17:48 <Bike> i think of cos as the triangle thing, or if i'm feeling more """advanced""", the gizmo that shows up in the inner product
03:18:52 <zzo38> Well, triangles are one of their uses (and is the reason it is called "trigonometry"), but there can be other things too
03:19:43 <Bike> and i think of complexes in polar coordinates, because i like spinning and it makes branch cuts seem sensible
03:20:42 <zzo38> I like the e^itau=1 definition for tau though, do you prefer this one rather than ones involving geometry?
03:20:54 <shachaf> whatever your definition of pi is it should work constructively
03:21:16 <zzo38> O, you want a constructive definition.
03:21:34 <Bike> obviously define it as the ideal of the something something something
03:21:48 <Bike> i think of exp(i*tau) as geometric so it's fine w/me either way i guess
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03:22:28 <Jafet> The positive real number whose digits are given by pi_10
03:22:40 <ais523> why not use e^itau = 1 as a definition of /e/?
03:23:03 <Bike> all four, define tau, e, i, and 1
03:23:44 <Taneb> Bike, I define them all equal to 1
03:23:48 <Bike> and sure, some haters might say that also works for e = 2, i = 7, tau = -39, and 1 = 1/15177100720513508366558296147058741458143803430094840009779784451085189728165691392, but we don't need that negativity in our lives
03:24:38 <Jafet> That interpretation of your definition was obviously wrong
03:25:11 <ais523> Bike: I'm more amused you had a bignum calculator to hand to calculate that definition of 1
03:25:17 <zzo38> ais523: I don't think so; you can better e define as the series, I think (just put 1 in place of x for the series of e^x)
03:25:23 <Bike> i'm being a mathematician, i can only say something is "obvious" if it's a special case of stokes's theorem. defining 1, now that's hard
03:25:38 <Bike> ais523: i have a lisp repl open usually
03:25:41 <shachaf> lambdabot is on everyone's hand
03:25:45 <Bike> as you can see, it's incredibly practical
03:26:00 <Bike> shachaf: yeah but lol like i have the attention span to remember haskell's exponentiation operators
03:26:08 <Bike> > 2 ** (7 * -39)
03:26:09 <lambdabot> cannot mix ‘GHC.Num.*’ [infixl 7] and prefix `-' [infixl 6] in the same ...
03:26:22 <lambdabot> 1517710072051350836655829614705874145814380343009484000977978445108518972816...
03:26:35 <shachaf> oh and it truncates the answer when you're not using /msg
03:26:37 <Bike> > 2 ** (0 - 7*39)
03:26:37 <Taneb> shachaf, lambdabot is not without her issues
03:26:40 <shachaf> which is probably a good thing
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03:27:08 <Bike> i don't even remember what the other one is
03:27:24 <lambdabot> (Integral b, Fractional a) => a -> b -> a
03:27:27 <Bike> > exp (0 - 7 * 39 * log 2)
03:27:27 <shachaf> Bike: oh are you a stokes' theorem expert
03:27:36 <Jafet> > let e = exp (-1); τ = 8*atan 1; i = 0 :+ 1 in e**(i*τ)
03:27:38 <lambdabot> 1.0000000000000009 :+ 2.4492935982947084e-16
03:27:42 <Bike> shachaf: i've been reading differential geometry on and off
03:27:44 <ais523> Bike: now you're reminding me of Chebyshev's sum inequality
03:27:49 <Jafet> > let e = exp (-1); τ = 8*atan 1; i = 0 :+ 1 in (1/e)**(i*τ)
03:27:50 <lambdabot> 0.9999999999999991 :+ (-2.4492935982947044e-16)
03:27:57 <shachaf> Bike: i was doing that recently
03:27:59 <ais523> not being able to memorize it is one of the reasons I wasn't really all that good at the high-level maths competitions
03:28:01 <shachaf> but a lot of it wasn't making sense
03:28:01 <Bike> it's pretty hard
03:28:11 <Bike> have you been reading spivak
03:28:22 <ais523> that one's the special case I could remember
03:28:22 <Bike> ok well that's the usual one, calculus on manifolds
03:28:25 <Bike> it's notoriously hard though
03:28:30 <ais523> I can't remember the one I couldn't remember
03:28:32 <ais523> possibly unsurprisingly
03:28:34 <Bike> the other one i like is um, lemme find it again
03:28:45 <Taneb> What am I doing awake
03:28:53 <Bike> listening to me talk about 3-forms
03:29:11 <shachaf> so what are n-forms anyway
03:29:12 <Bike> right, Applied Differential Geometry by Burke
03:29:16 <Bike> you might hate it though
03:29:18 <shachaf> the book i was reading was p. handwavy about it
03:29:28 <Bike> they're like... repeated wedge products of something
03:29:33 <shachaf> maybe it gets less handwavy later
03:30:46 <Bike> anyway i said the stokes theorem thing because early on in spivak he says "anyway, green's theorem and the cauchy riemann equations and gauss's theorem are boring trivial consequences of stokes's theorem, but you need to read a hundred pages of this book to know what the hell that means"
03:30:51 <Bike> in total seriousness
03:31:17 <shachaf> also it's a sort of adjunction
03:31:26 <shachaf> and adjunctions are the best??
03:31:45 <Bike> i just made the mistake of asking my physics prof how magnetism would work in four dimensions
03:31:48 <Taneb> Oh, I was thinking about the Black-Scholes equation
03:31:49 <Bike> it involves signed areas
03:31:53 <Taneb> Which is completely different
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03:32:22 <Taneb> Well, I guess they're similar in that I don't understand either
03:32:30 <shachaf> Bike: oh i was reading http://www.math.boun.edu.tr/instructors/ozturk/eskiders/fall04math488/bachman.pdf and it was a little less handwavy
03:32:32 <Bike> like 60% of basic electrodynamics is basically stokes's theorem, which is kind of hilarious
03:32:37 <zemhill> david_werecat.atom: points -3.00, score 17.69, rank 31/47
03:32:46 <Bike> well, electrostatics i guess
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03:33:19 <shachaf> all i wanted to know was what "dy" actually means :'(
03:33:22 <Bike> shachaf: applied differential forms is nice enough that i think i have a pretty good handle on what a tensor is
03:33:27 <Bike> and tensor products etc
03:33:42 <Bike> i kind of assumed you knew this stuff though
03:33:46 <Bike> aren't "pullbacks" a cat theory thing
03:33:59 <shachaf> i don't even know anything about analysis hth
03:34:01 <Bike> it's all bla bla fiber bundles bla bla
03:34:13 <Bike> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pullback_%28category_theory%29
03:34:29 <Bike> i can't read any of this shit
03:34:30 <shachaf> yes and someone in another channel tried to explain to me how the differential geometry pullbacks were a special case of the category pullbacks
03:34:40 <Taneb> This term I have an "Introduction to Group Theory" module.
03:34:44 <shachaf> but it was 05:00 and i didn't understand anything
03:34:51 <Bike> life is suffering
03:34:52 <Taneb> I have been introduced to group theory at least twice before
03:35:05 <shachaf> i guess that would be abelian group theory
03:35:30 <Bike> i wonder if i should take a class in this sometime, the last math class i took was vector calculus, which i've forgotten everything of which is why i grabbed spivak
03:35:46 <Bike> "de Rham cohomology" sounds like something i can shout if i'm on a spaceship that's going to sink and i need to fix it
03:35:57 <Bike> "We need to reroute the cohomological dampeners!" or something
03:36:23 <shachaf> i've p. much never taken a math class :'(
03:36:29 <shachaf> not sure why you assume i know any of these things
03:37:06 <Bike> http://31.media.tumblr.com/00dc7596f0c1d1936d02fc1407a91214/tumblr_ncbvooAB7C1r7tprao1_1280.png behold
03:37:29 <shachaf> anyway is the conclusion that i should read spivak
03:37:53 <Bike> i think spivak is the canonical text on it, that's all i'm sayin
03:38:12 <Bike> i've been using burke more, but he was a physicist and says things like "this works for normal functions, look at something else if you want proofs"
03:38:16 <zzo38> A category with more than one object has more monads than how many final objects it has. Is it correct? How do you call such a thing?
03:38:26 <Taneb> ...the module, which is called "Introduction to Group Theory", assumes knowledge of group theory
03:38:56 <zzo38> shachaf: Why of what?
03:39:02 <Bike> Taneb: maybe they just want you to be familiar with the basic "it's a thing where you can do multiplication" and the class is more like ok here's the residue of seven mod a billion
03:39:28 <Bike> or maybe they'll teach you about monstrous moonshine
03:39:29 <zzo38> I still don't understand your question
03:39:30 <Taneb> Bike, looking at the syllabus it seems a lot more detailed
03:39:38 <Taneb> (that what I have done previously)
03:39:58 <Bike> you don't sound sufficiently hype
03:40:13 <shachaf> zzo38: Why is the thing you said true?
03:40:25 <Taneb> Bike, it's 4:40 am, cut me some slack
03:40:42 <Bike> i guess you can get ye hype at a later time
03:40:48 <Bike> why are you awake at five am reading syllabuses
03:41:10 <shachaf> Taneb: whoa, sounds like the perfect time to ask why pullbacks are called that
03:41:20 <Taneb> I woke up accidentally an hour and a half ago I thik
03:41:37 <Bike> oh so you've gotten some sleep
03:41:40 <shachaf> Bike: also why do category people call them pushouts and other people call them pushforwards??
03:42:00 <Taneb> shachaf, I never figured out an intuition for pullbacks
03:42:12 <Bike> i'm sure there's some amazingly stupid reason borne of history
03:42:17 <Bike> geographic pullbacks seem reasonably easy
03:42:27 <Bike> something about compositions between maps or whatever
03:42:28 <zzo38> shachaf: O, now I understand you. Because there has to be a identity monad, and a final object also causes a monad (the functor maps everything to the final object)
03:42:57 <shachaf> zzo38: What about the category with one arrow? That one has one monad and one terminal object.
03:43:35 <shachaf> also those monads are isomorphic "do they even count"
03:43:39 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes but it has only one object, not two.
03:43:45 <Taneb> zzo38, what if there are two final objects and nothing else?
03:44:18 <shachaf> Oh, you said "with more than one object".
03:44:53 <Bike> http://i.imgur.com/kHf69Dg.png blammo, pullbacks
03:45:08 <Taneb> Bike, if this is a longbow or something...
03:45:18 <Bike> no it's a pullback
03:45:20 <zzo38> shachaf: Yes, I did say that.
03:45:21 <Bike> with bonus pushforward
03:45:37 <zzo38> How do you call this theorem? Is there a better one?
03:46:22 <Bike> i literally did not understand what a dual was before this book, i'm a fucking moron & also great
03:46:34 <shachaf> there, you're stuck with it
03:46:44 <Taneb> zzo38, what about a category with no final objects?
03:46:51 <Bike> matrix more like (1 1) tensor
03:46:53 <shachaf> Taneb: It still has the identity monad.
03:47:02 <zzo38> Taneb: Then it still has identity monad.
03:47:06 <Taneb> shachaf, the theorem was >
03:47:34 <Taneb> So it must have more monads by the theorem?
03:47:43 <Bike> the dual of a linear space L is the linear space you get from fucking with "linear functionals" which are linear functions L -> R in the obvious ways
03:48:00 <Bike> then also some other stuff.
03:48:18 <shachaf> i was just reading about cotangent spaces today
03:48:33 <Bike> yeah that's in burke too
03:48:36 <Bike> got about a 40% handle on them
03:48:44 <Taneb> Aaaaaah what's a complete set of residues
03:49:18 <Bike> it's where you walk into a chemistry lab and mix everything up and scrape some samples off the wall after you get the fuck out of there
03:49:46 <Taneb> Bike, last time that happened here, we're not allowed to touch the lake any more
03:50:00 <Bike> i should hope not, do you know what they keep in those places
03:50:29 <Bike> here let me just reduce YOUR EYES
03:50:40 <zzo38> I think even an empty category has an identity monad (the definition of such a monad is also empty though; it doesn't have to be defined as an identity monad, as long as it is empty)
03:50:44 <Bike> i guess they probably don't keep, like, dimethylmercury.
03:51:06 <Bike> which is proooooobably the deadliest nonbiological chemical i can think of, not sure
03:51:34 <shachaf> what if you represent a vector space as a chu space
03:51:59 <ais523> zzo38: I don't think empty categories have a nonempty anything?
03:52:00 <Bike> i have enough trouble with the nine layers of topological spaces without generalizing them
03:52:27 <Bike> oh this is a perfect closed uncompleted degloved Hausdorff space
03:52:40 <zzo38> ais523: Yes, it doesn't have a nonempty.
03:53:29 <ais523> I was always scared of even the relatively benign chemicals in school
03:53:32 <ais523> such as distilled water
03:53:43 <ais523> once I spilled distilled water on my hands, and immediately went to wash it off
03:53:48 <ais523> which probably technically made my hands dirtier
03:53:51 <Taneb> ais523, you can do a lot of damage with distilled water
03:54:03 <pikhq> Deionized must've made you really frightened.
03:54:09 <ais523> at the time I thought it was irrational; in retrospect, not sure how well humans cope with osmotic potentials /that/ out of range
03:54:19 <Bike> i gotta admit "deionized" sounds pretty nasty
03:54:22 <ais523> (probably quite well because it's not very out of range, and becomes less so upon contact with a human)
03:54:32 <ais523> pikhq: I think it was technically deionized rather than distilled
03:54:39 <Bike> ais523: yes, if you injected water into your bloodstream you would die, but that goes for other materials, such as undeionized water, or air
03:54:50 <ais523> is there much chemical difference? or is it just to do with manufacturing methods?
03:55:11 <elliott_> ais523: IIRC drinking distilled water isn't really dangerous or anything
03:55:23 <Bike> oh, drinking it is fine.
03:55:27 <Taneb> shachaf, he's still here, we're safe
03:55:41 <Bike> i don't know if you know this, but your stomach already has a pH difference of like, four, some fucking water ain't gonna do shit
03:55:41 <elliott_> I think the fearmongering about it is basically "you don't get the minerals that you get in less pure water"?
03:55:47 <ais523> elliott_: yes; technically it could be dangerous because human cell membranes can't cope with that sort of osmotic potential
03:56:00 <Taneb> On the topic of drinking water, I'm thirsty
03:56:01 <ais523> but it's not going to rupture many cells before it becomes normal water due to being inside a human
03:56:07 <ais523> who is full of soluble chemicals
03:56:07 <pikhq> DI water is a different manufacturing process, but for purposes of chemistry basically the same.
03:56:08 <Taneb> But the water here is harder than I'm used to :(
03:56:11 <Taneb> I need to get a filter
03:56:27 <ais523> is water hardness tasteable?
03:56:40 <Bike> i wanna get this across man, if regular cells were exposed to /regular/ water they would also explode, why do you think medfucks use saline
03:56:46 <ais523> I've noticed a difference in taste between different water suppliers, but thought it was due to other factors
03:56:55 <Bike> between hard water suppliers?
03:57:03 <ais523> although I assume things like the inside of the mouth have protection against that
03:57:23 <Bike> yes, your outsides are already dead, as per usual
03:57:51 <Bike> i should really be doing homework but i enjoy saying stupid bullshit much more
03:57:53 <pikhq> It seems the main health issues of distilled water is that you're likely to need somewhat more minerals in your diet.
03:58:17 <ais523> Bike: it makes a huge amount of sense to make as many of the outside-world-facing parts of the body out of dead cells as possible
03:58:18 <pikhq> But is otherwise utterly mundane, as you'd expect.
03:58:32 <Bike> did you know that vanadium has a biological role
03:58:37 <Bike> i don't even know what vanadium is, do you?
03:58:38 <elliott_> I kind of want to try drinking distilled water just to see what it tastes like
03:58:41 <Bike> like, it's an element
03:58:43 <ais523> they're in plentiful supply, can be designed to cope with the expected stresses, and you don't have to keep them in working order much beyond physical integrity
03:58:48 <Bike> elliott_: it tastes like nothing
03:58:56 <elliott_> Bike: yeah, but so does normal water
03:58:59 <elliott_> it's hard to imagine an even more boring taste
03:59:02 <Bike> some labs also have "industrial water" though, and you shouldn't drink that, even if it's on a bet
03:59:14 <shachaf> normal water has all sorts of taste
03:59:25 <ais523> I was told that the way the "distilled"/deionized water at school was purified made it unsafe to drink
03:59:31 <zzo38> Why is "Mathematical Universe Hypothesis" called that? I don't think it is a hypothesis (or a theory or anything), just a kind of philosophical idea I suppose
03:59:32 <ais523> not sure if that was actually true, or just to prevent students drinking it
03:59:35 <elliott_> heavy water isn't very dangerous either, iirc
03:59:41 <ais523> elliott_: there's some debate AFAIK
03:59:45 <pikhq> ais523: Might hypothetically be true of deionized?
03:59:49 <Bike> nah industrial water is just nonpotable runoff that's still useful for a few things
03:59:51 <ais523> the basic issue is that D has a larger mass than H
03:59:52 <pikhq> Deionized is somewhat less pure apparently.
03:59:57 <Bike> it's like... you know... yellowish
04:00:02 <pikhq> Chemical processes are used to remove salts.
04:00:03 <elliott_> ais523: well, "Because it would take a very large amount of heavy water to replace 25% to 50% of a human being's body water (water being in turn 50% - 75% of body weight[31]) with heavy water, accidental or intentional poisoning with heavy water is unlikely to the point of practical disregard."
04:00:09 <pikhq> But distilled water? Eh.
04:00:11 <ais523> which makes reactions run at a different speed to normal
04:00:18 <elliott_> or, more generally, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_water#Effect_on_biological_systems
04:00:28 <Bike> wanna feed some tunicates heavy ocean now
04:00:33 <Bike> watch em suck out the vanadium
04:00:36 <pikhq> ais523: Yes, but the effect of drinking a small quantity of heavy water probably is nil.
04:00:38 <Bike> chromagen that shit
04:00:40 <ais523> elliott_: yes, what I'd heard is that there are known mechanism via which it could be a problem, but nobody was entirely sure if the dose you'd need was massively large
04:00:41 <elliott_> iirc it tastes identical to water though
04:00:45 <pikhq> Given that some of the water you drink is heavy *anyways*.
04:00:47 <elliott_> so it's probably not worth it except to be able to say you've done it
04:01:00 <pikhq> ais523: They've done experiments with rats.
04:01:01 <Bike> it would be cool if heavy water tasted different, i mean think of what that implies
04:01:03 <shachaf> Bike: is there a good irc channel to ask about some of these things in? ##math didn't work, surprisingly enough
04:01:15 <pikhq> Rats die at about 50%.
04:01:17 <Bike> shachaf: i don't know. i just have a physics buddy who's happy to throw thousands of books at m
04:01:22 <ais523> pikhq: this reminds me of when some people were trying to convince me aluminium was dangerous, and Wikipedia makes the point that it's one of the most abundant elements in the crust and you have a tendency to inhale largish quantities of it over your lifetime
04:01:26 <Bike> if you find one that sounds good though
04:01:27 <Taneb> Hexham had 27 mg/l, York has 93.5 mg/l ish
04:01:28 <elliott_> Bike: it's like how heavy metal tastes different to normal metals
04:01:32 <pikhq> I incidentally was talking with my girlfriend about this like a couple hours ago.
04:01:36 <Taneb> (Calcium in the water)
04:01:38 <elliott_> and grindcore is just a different experience altogether
04:01:44 <Bike> i don't need this
04:02:16 <Taneb> THAT'S THREE TIMES AS HARD
04:02:22 <Taneb> (it probably doesn't work like that)
04:02:42 <Bike> taste (well, smell more like) is basically a chemical classification, being able to taste heavy water would mean either you have some mechanism for distinguishing isotopes, which would be insane, or that even small amounts of the stuff react noticeably differently in a way we can pick up on
04:02:42 <ais523> now I'm wondering if water hardness is defined wrt calcium specifically or if other ions also count
04:02:54 <ais523> you'd need calcium (+ carbonate) to make limescale, so perhaps it is calcium specifically
04:03:06 <elliott_> grindcore is actually lighter than regular metal since it's all ground up so there's more air
04:03:20 <ais523> elliott_: is this protest surrealism again?
04:03:28 <elliott_> ais523: no, just the regular kind
04:03:29 <Bike> i think it's metal surrealism
04:03:30 <Taneb> ais523, Northumbria Water is measuring it in mg Ca/l
04:04:18 <Taneb> But York water is defining it as Calcium + Magnesium
04:04:34 <ais523> now I wonder if magnesium carbonate is a problem
04:04:45 <Taneb> (with the unit mg Ca/l, so maybe I'm misunderstanding Northumbria Water's)
04:05:40 <ais523> mg as in magnesium or milligrams?
04:05:48 <ais523> this sounds like a possible typo/misunderstanding
04:06:12 <Taneb> The Magnesium-only measurement is mg Mg/l
04:06:38 <Bike> it's gonna suck when that turns out to mean megagrams per lux
04:06:50 <Bike> oh lux is lx, oops
04:07:31 <Bike> oh right gauss is also a unit, so you've got milligrams (mg), megagrams (Mg), milligauss (mG), megagauss (MG)
04:07:44 <Bike> no, wait gauss is cgs, nevermind, crisis averted
04:07:47 <pikhq> Maybe it's megagauss per lumens.
04:07:50 <elliott_> you also have omg, milligrams of oxygen
04:08:03 <ais523> this reminds me of the interpretation of "MB" as "megabel", which is the technically correct interpretation
04:08:32 <Bike> i can't imagine ever writing the substance name before the unit
04:08:37 <Bike> kind of wish it did work like that now, tho
04:08:56 <pikhq> Magic the Gathering Online?
04:09:02 <Bike> also it would be O2MG unless you're dealing with free radicals i guess
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04:09:12 <ais523> this is a unit so large that possibly even Randall Munroe could fail to visualise quite how big it is
04:09:14 -!- ais523 has quit.
04:09:18 <pikhq> elliott_: No, but it may be a buttcoin.
04:09:23 -!- callforjudgement has changed nick to ais523.
04:09:28 <Bike> that would be, uh...
04:09:32 <Bike> ten million dB, huh?
04:09:44 <ais523> and saw /myself/ say "<ais523> this is a unit so large that possibly even Randall Munroe could fail to visualise quite how big it is" and then quit
04:09:48 <ais523> Bike: and dB are a log scale
04:10:01 <Bike> oh does that mean ten million orders of magnitude
04:10:04 <Bike> i'm no good with those units :(
04:10:06 <Taneb> ais523, maybe we should email him and ask how much damage it'd do
04:10:10 <ais523> one million orders of magnitude
04:10:19 <Bike> yeah i can't imagine that coming up outside of maths
04:10:40 <Bike> Taneb: if it was dB SPL, i.e. the usual "sound" interpretation of dB, that would probably be near planck pressure
04:10:47 <elliott_> U2 on the other hand is a radiation hazard, they're just that bad. okay these jokes are just, fucking terrible
04:10:55 <pikhq> Taneb: Well, a nuclear bomb is about 210 dB.
04:11:08 <Bike> you can use dB for things other than sound
04:11:15 <Bike> but i can't think of any physical application at all...
04:11:41 <pikhq> Signal to noise ratio on a radio signal.
04:11:58 <Bike> that's gotta be far below measurable, hasn't it
04:12:20 <ais523> 235 dB is approximately the ratio between 12g of carbon and a single atom of carbon
04:12:34 <ais523> (or a gram of hydrogen and a single atom of hydrogen)
04:12:38 <Bike> yeah, so now try a galaxy or something. i guess.
04:12:48 <pikhq> Exponents are nuts.
04:12:50 <ais523> but the problem is, you're just adding, not multiplying
04:13:43 <ais523> the Sun has a mass of about 2e30 kilograms, or 2e33 grams
04:13:51 <ais523> that's 333 dB away from one gram
04:13:53 <Taneb> According to Wolfram Alpha, Milky Way is 6*10^42 kg
04:14:12 <ais523> so there's a ratio of about 570 fB between the sun and a single atom
04:14:21 <ais523> 6e45 would be 455 dB away from a gram
04:14:29 <ais523> or 690 dB from an atom
04:14:35 <ais523> we're still so far away from a million
04:15:05 <zemhill> david_werecat.pheonix: points 7.12, score 27.61, rank 9/47
04:15:16 <Taneb> Observable universe, 3.4e57 grams
04:15:18 <Bike> well, anyway 1 MB SPL would be uh, somewhere around 10^9999993 pascals or something
04:15:23 <Bike> so actually rather larger than the planck pressure
04:15:36 <ais523> 6 isn't 5db, it's more than that
04:15:58 <Taneb> > logBase 10 6 * 10
04:16:10 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DeidreNBSbpdvb * New user account
04:16:16 <Bike> haha, wikipedia's largest example of pressure magnitude is still seventy orders of magnitude less than the planck pressure
04:16:16 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Abuse filter * blocked [[User:DeidreNBSbpdvb]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Automatically blocked by abuse filter. Description of matched rule: first edit is to user page and contains spambot-like use of br tag
04:16:26 <ais523> Bike: what is that example?
04:16:32 <Bike> inside of a neutron star
04:16:49 <Bike> next most is twenty less, inside of uranium
04:17:08 <Bike> i like stars, they make physical units seem so meaningless
04:17:17 <pikhq> Ooooh, I know. The MB applies to numbers used in proofs.
04:17:21 <Bike> did you know there are possibly stars with strong enough magnetic fields to turn your atoms to spindles from Au away
04:17:33 <Bike> pikhq: yeah that's why i said "physical", it works with graham or some shit i imagine
04:17:35 <pikhq> Let's make it easy, and go with positive integers used in proofs.
04:17:38 <ais523> incidentally, this latest spew of spambots are all advertising sites with URLs that are different but similar (they all follow the same pattern), and that I don't remember seeing before
04:17:51 <pikhq> The ratio of 1 and graham's number in dB is probably absurd.
04:18:01 <ais523> pikhq: now we face the issue that it's much /smaller/ than Graham's number, yes
04:18:03 <Bike> turns out to be exactly ten million
04:19:14 <ais523> basically, the way to visualise Graham's number is, any method of describing it that doesn't first involve inventing a notation specifically for the purpose of describing it is going to fall far short
04:19:31 <elliott_> I read that as "inventing a nation"
04:19:38 <Bike> well, i think i've seen numbers like 10^10^100 a time or two in maths, i'm sure there's something
04:19:46 <elliott_> "if we give it about the population of china, and the inflation of zimbabwe..."
04:19:57 <Bike> lowest prime number to something something
04:20:00 <ais523> elliott_: doesn't B Nomic technically own a small raft on a lake somewhere?
04:20:17 <Bike> it should be that one lake in europe with no borders
04:20:39 <Bike> lake constance apparently
04:20:39 <ais523> what does "lake with no borders" mean?
04:21:00 <Bike> it's between switzerland, germany, and austria, but they don't have any agreement about where the borders are
04:21:18 <Bike> "Switzerland holds the view that the border runs through the middle of the lake, Austria is of the opinion that the contentious area belongs to all the states on its banks, and Germany holds an ambiguous opinion. Legal questions pertaining to ship transport and fishing are regulated in separate treaties."
04:21:47 <pikhq> ais523: Aware, and pleased, that graham's number is that absurd.
04:22:08 <Bike> how are the bounds on that problem doing, btw
04:22:40 <Bike> they got it down to 2 ^^ 2 ^^ 2 ^^ 9 apparently
04:22:44 <ais523> "The last ten digits of Graham's number are ...2464195387"
04:22:51 <ais523> I love that someone has calculated them
04:23:00 <ais523> presumably using modular arithmetic optimizations
04:23:18 <Bike> yeah, the final digits of anything under repeated exponentiation become constant after a while.
04:23:43 <Bike> actually wikipedia explains it. i mentioned this somewhere a few days back...
04:24:06 <Bike> anyway so the bounds are 13 <= answer <= 2 ^^ 2 ^^ 2 ^^ 9.
04:24:13 <ais523> oh, huh; I remember the book that introduced me to Graham's Number conjectured that the actual answer was 6, but that's apparently been disproved
04:24:45 <Bike> the 13 bound is on arxiv if you want to "check that shit out" http://arxiv.org/abs/0811.1055
04:25:14 <Bike> i have no idea why they mention graham's number though, since it was the known bound for like two seconds
04:25:29 <ais523> now, of course, the harder problem is knowing the first few digits of Graham's number
04:25:40 <ais523> I conjecture that the very first digit is a 1
04:25:52 <ais523> (statistically, this should have around a 40% chance of being correct)
04:25:54 <Taneb> ais523, I reckon it's 7
04:26:09 <Bike> i forget, don't you need some assumptions for benford's law
04:26:29 <Taneb> ais523, that statistic terrifies me
04:26:43 <Bike> benford's law is pretty weird yeah.
04:26:52 <ais523> Taneb: well think about it this way, in binary, all numbers start with 1, except for 0
04:27:13 <ais523> now I wonder what the proportion of numbers that start with 1 in ternary is
04:27:22 <pikhq> Bike: Log of the numbers must be uniformly and randomly distributed, basically.
04:27:36 <Bike> i'm not sure how you'd pick a distribution...
04:27:43 <ais523> and what it is in base infinity, the limit (wouldn't surprise me if it were 1/e or something like that)
04:27:47 <Taneb> ais523, naively, 1/2
04:28:00 <ais523> Taneb: it's way higher than 1/2
04:28:02 <Bike> someone write some incomprehensible haskell fragment to get the first digits of repeated exponentiations
04:28:05 <Taneb> And in base infinity, 0?
04:28:40 <ais523> Taneb: well base infinity doesn't actually exist in most concepts of infinities
04:28:51 <ais523> but presumably the limit of benford's law does
04:29:26 <ais523> "The discovery of Benford's Law goes back to 1881, when the American astronomer Simon Newcomb noticed that in logarithm tables (used at that time to perform calculations) the earlier pages (which contained numbers that started with 1) were much more worn than the other pages."
04:29:31 <ais523> pity you can't do proofs like that
04:30:34 <Bike> wonder if that works with other tables
04:30:47 <Bike> from what little i know of ship navigation i dunno if that would happen with trig tables
04:32:38 <ais523> "The 1974 Vancouver, Canada telephone book violates Benford's law because regulations require that telephone numbers have a fixed number of digits and do not begin with 1."
04:32:42 <ais523> that is an oddly specific example
04:33:00 <Bike> easy to find if you're looking for benford counterexamples, though
04:33:14 <ais523> in the UK, it's hard to say what telephone numbers start with
04:33:21 <ais523> is it +44, 0, or "any digit except 0"?
04:33:40 <Bike> yeah in the US i'm never sure whether to dial 1 or what
04:34:16 <elliott_> figuring out how to dial externally on hotel phones is "fun"
04:34:20 <ais523> Bike: in the UK, if you know the number of the phone you're calling from, it's easy to know how many digits of the target phone number to use
04:34:30 <ais523> elliott_: huh, "leading 9" isn't standard?
04:34:43 <Bike> it's standard enough to be in the US, and yet, still confusing
04:35:40 <Bike> if you were in europe you should have visited my hot pad in liechtenstein
04:35:51 <Bike> if you were in antarctica, you should have caught a penguin
04:35:55 <pikhq> Maaan, problems that I'm not used to.
04:36:19 <pikhq> I just put in the full number in my cell phone.
04:36:24 <elliott_> you know the uk is in europe right
04:36:36 <Bike> the "continent"
04:36:52 <pikhq> +1 533 555 2133 TADA dialing happens
04:37:02 <Bike> if you were in africa you should have gotten a weltwischia and given it to me
04:37:12 <elliott_> how have phone numbers survived into 2014?
04:37:33 <Bike> probably because telephony is the weird infrastructural basis of all the stuff we actually use
04:37:51 <pikhq> Same way Ireland's managed to somehow survive with ambiguous mailing addresses.
04:38:05 <Bike> i bet if i looked it up calling you would involve a protocol invented by shannon in 1833
04:39:05 <pikhq> Seriously, the address scheme is "Name, Townland, Town, County".
04:39:18 <Bike> also phone people probably get mocked by internet people, and then they reply by asking them how ipv6 is going
04:40:13 <pikhq> Taneb: Weird geographical subdivision.
04:40:18 <elliott_> Bike: at least we don't use IPs as UI, much
04:40:34 <pikhq> Basically, if two guys with the same name are neighbors Irish mail breaks.
04:40:35 <Bike> well nowadays we don'ot do that with phones much either, as pikhq said
04:40:36 <Sgeo> If you're in a hotel in an emergency, is it 9911 or 911?
04:41:01 <Taneb> What if it's not in the US?
04:41:02 <Bike> ah, but what if you're in algeria
04:41:22 <Bike> and you're on a crashing plane with hitler and leopold ii, and you have only a single bullet?
04:41:24 <pikhq> The North American dialing plan is actually rigged so that "dial 9 for an outside line" can special case 911.
04:41:39 <Taneb> Bike, I'd shoot myself.
04:41:44 <elliott_> rememeber to tell them you're in algeria so they can dispatch cops quickly
04:41:47 <Sgeo> pikhq: what happens if someone doesn't realize that and attempts 9911?
04:41:48 <Taneb> If I was in such a bad riddle, there's no point living
04:41:53 <Bike> i don't see how that accomplishes dialing the phone
04:42:00 <pikhq> Sgeo: Probably just works?
04:42:19 <Bike> maybe if you shot yourself in such a way that you fell onto the typing pad
04:42:25 <Bike> so let's say it's also a rotary phone
04:42:28 <pikhq> Numbers don't otherwise start with 9 in the US.
04:42:57 <Bike> actually i guess i just said you had a bullet, not a gun
04:43:05 <Bike> you could like, choke yourself with it, depending on the size of the bullet
04:43:29 <Bike> or just get hitler to strangle you...
04:43:53 <Bike> leppy would probably refuse to touch you
04:44:17 <elliott_> shoot the window and jump out and land on top of a phone
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04:44:32 <elliott_> get hitler to spit the bullet really hard
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04:45:03 <ais523> many UK phones recognise 911 as an emergency number even though it isn't actually meant to have a special meaning in the UK
04:45:15 <ais523> because it's too short to be a regular number, and some people grow up on US TV shows
04:45:23 <Taneb> ais523, what about 50
04:45:35 <ais523> (the actual emergency number in the UK is 112, per the rest of Europe; also 999 for backward compatibility)
04:46:08 <Taneb> Hang on, that isn't actually an emergency number
04:46:18 <ais523> I don't know if there are any meaningful numbers shorter than three digits, except on mobile
04:46:28 <elliott_> ais523: does anyone really remember it as 112
04:46:40 <ais523> even the number you dial when you want a human at the switchboards to do the switching manually was changed from 0 to 100
04:46:41 <Bike> double hockey sticks to (the max)
04:46:42 <pikhq> IIRC GSM phones actually map all the emergency numbers to the local one.
04:46:45 <Taneb> iirc 112 works in Australia
04:46:58 <ais523> elliott_: well I do, but I use 999 when talking to other people to not confuse them
04:47:05 <ais523> people being confused in an emergency is generally a bad idea
04:47:14 <Bike> dracula, dracula
04:47:17 <elliott_> I didn't know about 112 until now (I've only dialed 999 once in my life though)
04:47:54 <Bike> i think the last time i called 911 was to see if the police would come by to unlock someone's car for them (they wouldn't)
04:47:57 <Taneb> I've known about 112 for a few years
04:48:07 <ais523> all the instances I've needed to do an emergency call, either a) I had someone else actually make the call because they had phone access, or b) I was at work, which has a separate emergency number because they have their own local emergency services
04:48:19 <Taneb> Never done an emergency phone
04:48:30 <Bike> i have called emergency services later, but it was a regular phone number, and also i think privatised
04:48:36 <ais523> elliott_: I believe all the payphones have an "Emergency: 999 or 112" in the instructions; and I /think/ it's in that order
04:48:43 <Bike> wow why did i spell that with an s
04:48:46 <pikhq> I've only ever experienced my phone randomly deciding to dial 911 of its own accord.
04:48:49 <pikhq> Which was awkward.
04:49:01 <elliott_> 999 was useless the one time I did call so I don't plan to call again
04:49:11 <Bike> elliott's just going to shout really loudly
04:49:12 <ais523> they added a new semi-emergency number for the NHS recently, whose intended semantics are "I think this is an emergency but I'm not sure"
04:49:33 <elliott_> Bike: it would be about as useful, yeah
04:49:38 <Bike> spitting up blood and pieces of liver atm is this normal
04:49:49 <ais523> can't remember what it is, but it's the same digit three times, so there are only eight possibilities
04:50:34 <ais523> presumably 000 is reserved for if you need to make interplanetary calls
04:50:43 <Bike> or just shout into the void
04:50:46 <ais523> (given that 0 is the national dialing prefix, and 00 international)
04:50:57 <Taneb> 101 is non-emergency police
04:51:07 <pikhq> And Earth is probably +000.
04:51:12 <Bike> the 'can you come by with a slim jim' number
04:51:20 <pikhq> +00017193529351 oh yeah
04:51:44 <ais523> Taneb: huh, they have a short number for that now?
04:51:52 <Taneb> ais523, they have for a few years
04:51:53 <ais523> last I checked it was seven digits, like most numbers
04:52:00 <Taneb> Northumberland was one of the trial areas
04:52:06 <ais523> (eight in london, six if you live somewhere small enough you don't need seven)
04:52:30 * pikhq wonders if he's going to randomly get a call now
04:53:17 <Taneb> pikhq, I was tempted, but I don't think I get cheap calls to wherever you are
04:53:53 <ais523> Taneb: the cheapest way to call the US from the UK is to use a reseller who just VoIPs to the US, then uses the US phone system for the "last mile"
04:54:05 <Bike> are you satisfied with your current long distance provider
04:54:07 <ais523> Skype are the most reputable company doing this, there are tons of smaller ones
04:54:17 <Taneb> (I get free calls from the EU to the UK, and possibly to the EU)
04:54:38 <ais523> I remember calling the UK from Hungary, it had a pretty reasonable cost
04:54:43 <ais523> I also attempted to call the UK from Canada, once
04:55:01 <Bike> oh yeah, i was gonna keep skype on nowadays.
04:55:09 <ais523> anyone who's attempted to use a payphone in Canada will probably have a good idea what happened next
04:55:28 <Taneb> I don't get UK -> Rest of Europe for free
04:55:33 <Taneb> But I do get ROE -> ROE
04:55:37 <ais523> anyway, it took about five to ten minutes to calculate how much the call would cost
04:55:49 <pikhq> Funny enough, I'd just have to pay $10 this month and I'd get US->UK unlimited. Spiffy.
04:55:50 <ais523> and the result was a) quite large, b) you had to pay it entirely in coins
04:56:01 <ais523> I didn't physically have enough Canadian currency to be able to pay it without using notes
04:56:17 <Taneb> ...I owe one of my lecturers 20p
04:56:35 <ais523> (incidentally, I recently discovered a US dime in my wallet, together with all the random euros; I have no good reason to have one, so I assume someone gave it to me assuming it was a UK five pence coin)
04:56:56 <pikhq> ... probably helps that my phone company's corporate overlords are in Germany.
04:57:03 <ais523> a dime is smaller, but not by so much that you'd necessarily notice making change at a shop
04:57:09 <Taneb> ais523, a vending machine gave me a mysterious coin with a star-and-crescent in place of a fivepence
04:57:26 <Bike> muslims taking over britain, oh no
04:57:58 <zzo38> Taneb: Maybe someone put in that coin, on accident and happen to accept anyways, or on purpose since the coin is a similar size enough that it can fit anyways. Do you know how much such a coin is worth?
04:58:12 <pikhq> Taneb: Alas, it's probably more sensible to randomly send me mail.
04:58:44 <Bike> oh, rupees have star and crescent on em
04:58:59 <Taneb> pikhq, what's your address (not really serious, I wouldn't know what to send)
04:59:07 <pikhq> Taneb: $ whois pikhq.com
04:59:24 <Bike> http://www.chiefacoins.com/Database/Countries/Pak-50Rupees_1997Cu.jpg rollin' in (extremely common) ca$h monie$
04:59:28 <coppro> .ca offers free personal info hiding on domains
04:59:53 <ais523> loads of registrars do that nowadays, some registries too
04:59:53 <pikhq> I've not exactly ever been secretive about my personal info.
05:00:12 <Taneb> pikhq, your city is listed the same as your street name
05:01:07 <pikhq> Well, the info that's in there would actually get routed correctly. The USPS would probably scribble something about an incorrect address format though.
05:01:33 <Taneb> I could probably get the city from the zip code?
05:01:36 <coppro> pikhq: I assume they do that just to avoid having to deliver your mail
05:02:03 <pikhq> Street address + ZIP is sufficient, it's just not correct.
05:02:05 <elliott_> ais523: reputable but maybe not worthy of that reputation.
05:02:16 <pikhq> coppro: Nah. USPS is crazy-awesome about mail delivery.
05:02:33 <ais523> elliott_: well, the others are even shadier AFAICT
05:02:52 <Taneb> What's with the US and their absurdly high house numbers
05:02:56 <ais523> they mostly advertise via: posters in downmarket corner shops; or fliers inexpertly stuck to the walls of payphone booths (mostly at an angle)
05:03:09 <ais523> Taneb: could just be absurdly long roads?
05:03:15 <elliott_> ais523: I think there are plenty of reasonable VoIP type providers?
05:03:18 <pikhq> Taneb: We don't like house numbers that don't end in 0.
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05:03:43 <ais523> there's a few roads near where I live which have house numbers over 1000, and it's quite easy to verify that it's as a result of having more than 1000 houses
05:03:45 <Taneb> The highest street number I've lived in was (depending how you count it), 6-18 or 10
05:04:00 <ais523> well, near in the relative sense
05:04:02 <pikhq> House numbers here are as a rule at least 3 digits.
05:04:15 <coppro> here, they generally have 3
05:04:20 <Taneb> Currently I'm at number 7
05:04:27 <coppro> but that's because it's typical to jump to the next 100 every time you get to a cross street
05:04:33 <ais523> house numbers in the UK are pretty standardised; start from 1 on one side of the road and 2 on the other, increase by 2 for each house on each side
05:04:34 <elliott_> I know US house numbers that don't end with 0...
05:04:35 <pikhq> Street with 2 houses? They're called 100 and 200.
05:04:45 <coppro> so that you can figure out which block a property is on by looking at the number
05:04:47 <ais523> if you build new houses later append letters
05:04:49 <Taneb> ais523, my street doesn't have any even numbers
05:04:49 <pikhq> elliott_: Yeah, but such aren't the norm.
05:04:59 <ais523> Taneb: it has houses only on one side?
05:05:06 <coppro> usually they go up as described by ais523
05:05:20 <coppro> sometimes by larger increments though where the city might subdivide
05:05:22 <pikhq> Also, numbering in the US is not generally systematically organized.
05:05:24 <ais523> one of my friends lives on a road that disobeys this rule, apparently people get very confused when visiting
05:05:27 <coppro> (especially in urban areas with large properties)
05:05:29 <Taneb> And some streets with houses on one side they have all the numbers
05:05:40 <pikhq> An individual city or region will generally have a rule, but it's unlikely to be the same rule across areas.
05:05:40 <Taneb> (such as my holiday-time address)
05:05:40 <ais523> in very rural areas sometimes they don't number at all and just use names
05:05:44 <coppro> IIRC there's even a general rule about which side of the road gets which number
05:05:55 <coppro> ais523: though I think for posting, you need to use the number
05:06:25 <ais523> the post service are quite good at figuring out addresses, generally
05:06:33 <pikhq> Some areas, like Utah, actually give addresses in the form of coordinates on a Cartesian grid overlaid on the city.
05:06:42 <pikhq> (which is really nice once you get used to it)
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05:07:02 <AndoDaan> i read once about somebody in england who lost his house number (4) because the road got expande. In england you can name your house, so he called his hous Four.
05:07:03 <Taneb> (here the other side of the road is a very narrow piece of woodland, then a sports field or part of my uni beyond that)
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05:07:27 <ais523> good news! it wasn't my connection that time
05:07:30 <ais523> rather, my client segfaulted
05:08:42 <pikhq> (for those of you who really wanna give me mail or knock on my door, but are too lazy to look up what my ZIP code maps to, I live in St Louis!)
05:09:11 <pikhq> (and please don't be creepy, or I shall be forced to answer the door in the nude)
05:09:33 <AndoDaan> damn, and i already bought the plane ticket
05:12:39 <zzo38> AndoDaan: Are you sure it is allowed to be called the same as numbers? Can't it become confusing then?
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05:13:51 <AndoDaan> i guess the council never thought about that, just that people would always want to their house normal house name. like 'the crumudgide'
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05:14:55 <AndoDaan> and it was only until somebody "needed' a reason to call their house a number (eventhough four is a series of letter) that they did.
05:15:30 <AndoDaan> but thats my reasoning, just a funny anecdote somebody put online.
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05:17:48 <zzo38> What I think is if they need to change house numbers, then they should change the name of the street too, so that if it is referred by the number, you can still not confuse mail already in transit
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05:19:13 <AndoDaan> that's what i like about programmers, they're always looking for the worst edge case.
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05:21:06 <AndoDaan> but thinking about it, they number roads that change each, what, week on a national level must be considerable.
05:22:42 <AndoDaan> now with electonic mail and soon 3d car downloading, that amazing system willl be obsolete.
05:28:54 <Taneb> I'm gonna try and get some more sleep
05:32:51 <int-e> AndoDaan: right ... until you shop online and have the goods delivered to your home. oops.
05:33:34 <AndoDaan> 3d car download covers that, just mark it "not a car though". it's very well though out.
05:35:10 <zzo38> I still sometimes use postal mail though
05:35:51 <AndoDaan> are you, like, a crazy person?
05:36:25 <AndoDaan> i kid. i think being able to write proper letter is a great skill.
05:36:28 <zzo38> What do *you* think?????????????????????????????????????????
05:36:50 <AndoDaan> wow, 3 too many '?' definitely a nutjob.
05:37:11 <int-e> zzo38: Well, you being here tilts the balance towards "crazy" already.
05:37:32 <zzo38> Did you see what it says on Wikipedia?
05:37:54 <int-e> About? Question marks???!1?
05:38:03 <zzo38> I mean on my user page
05:40:28 <int-e> I'm not wading through all those banners...
05:41:00 <int-e> (Though I find the "STOP GLOBAL BLOATING" one kind of ironic in context.)
05:41:43 <int-e> I see. "This user needs more userboxes. MORE, I tell you, more!!! Muhahaha!"
05:44:23 <zzo38> Yes, it is kind of ironic in context
05:59:25 * Sgeo decides zzo38 is CR-schrodinger
05:59:56 <zzo38> Sgeo: Which means what?
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06:39:47 <zemhill> david_werecat.pheonix: points 7.38, score 27.86, rank 9/47 (--)
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08:21:14 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Pyth]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40575&oldid=40309 * Quincunx * (+0) /* Documentation */
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09:43:00 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * MillieDCVO * New user account
09:43:03 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Abuse filter * blocked [[User:MillieDCVO]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Automatically blocked by abuse filter. Description of matched rule: first edit is to user page and contains spambot-like use of br tag
09:44:56 <AndoDaan> too fast. the bots are in kahoots, one making the other look good. to gain our trust.
09:45:19 <scarf> same spam pattern as the other bots today
09:45:46 <scarf> this one appears to be trying to manipulate search results for the phrase "remove flouride from tap water"
09:46:01 <scarf> which is a) misspelt, b) reminiscent of a conspiracy theory
09:46:07 <AndoDaan> and ruin my teeth? no thank you. evil bot.
09:47:55 <AndoDaan> the spam filter can't recognize conspiracy looking stuff, can it?
09:48:04 <scarf> no, just terrible use of newlines
09:48:12 <scarf> or, well, if a /specific/ conspiracy is spammed a lot
09:48:15 <scarf> we could tweak the filter to block it
09:48:19 <scarf> just the same as a specific anything else
09:48:26 <int-e> it can if the<br><br>conspiracy theory is tagged accordingly
09:49:07 <shachaf> http://slbkbs.org/fluids.jpg
09:50:35 <AndoDaan> yeah, but dihydrogen monoxide does that too. i'm not too woried.
09:51:27 <shachaf> causes apathy about fluoridation
09:51:28 <int-e> A lot of stuff has been used by Nazis, good luck avoiding it all.
09:51:45 <scarf> shachaf: *flouridation
09:51:48 <scarf> it's a misspelt conspiracy
09:52:02 <scarf> that said, who came up with the spelling of "fluoride" anyway
09:52:56 <int-e> Oh and obviously I couldn't care less about all the stuff that causes apathy.
09:53:16 <fizzie> shachaf: On Wednesday and Friday I rode a monorail! A monorail is_a kind of a train!
09:53:37 <shachaf> fizzie: You should inform the folks in #trains of this!
09:53:42 <scarf> magnetic levitation, or just unicycle-style?
09:53:48 * scarf imagines a unicycle train
09:53:57 <int-e> . o O ( fizzie has a one-track mind?! )
09:54:02 <fizzie> scarf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-Bahn#D.C3.BCsseldorf_Airport <- this Düsseldorf airport one, so the hanging-from-the-rail style.
09:54:34 <scarf> that reminds me more of a cable car than a train
09:54:47 <scarf> although the term "cable car" maybe means something different in US and UK english
09:55:08 <scarf> in the UK they normally hang below the cable and are used as a fast method to transport people up or between mountains
09:55:21 <scarf> there aren't many of them because we don't have many mountains, they're basically just there for touristy purposes
09:58:29 <fizzie> They call it a SkyTrain, so it has to be a train.
09:58:37 <fizzie> But sure, it's more like that.
09:58:55 <fizzie> I think one distinction is that it moves under its own power, instead of being dragged by the cable.
09:59:53 <fizzie> That should be "junista", really. If "do you (plural) like trains" is what you were aiming for.
10:00:38 <scarf> "junista" has a nice sound to it, even if I don't know what it means
10:01:05 <shachaf> I was going for plural-you, though I guess only one Finnish speaker is active right now.
10:01:47 <shachaf> So what are "juna", "junat", "junista", "junalla"?
10:03:31 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * KandaceMQMT * New user account
10:04:13 <AndoDaan> i'm sure that's one a bot too.
10:04:14 <shachaf> Yes, but I meant what they mean here. But maybe I can figure it out.
10:04:33 <fizzie> "junista" would be the plural elative case, I guess, but I don't have any idea why it's used as the case for 'like'.
10:04:50 <fizzie> Possibly just for the heck of it.
10:05:13 <shachaf> What would the singular be?
10:05:18 <fizzie> "junalla" would be the singular adessive case, if you were going somewhere *on* a train, which matches the English pronoun.
10:05:31 <fizzie> "pidätkö junasta", if there's a particular single train you might or might not like.
10:05:34 <scarf> AndoDaan: well it hasn't tried to edit yet
10:05:40 <fizzie> Or "pidättekö" if the you is also plural.
10:07:06 <fizzie> And "pidättekö junat" actually would most likely be interpreted as "will you be keeping the trains"; something you could ask after a test drive if you were selling trains, I guess.
10:07:16 <fizzie> (For a different sense of the verb 'pitää'.)
10:13:14 <fizzie> At least in "pidättekö junat" 'will you keep the trains' I think it's the accusative case.
10:13:51 <fizzie> The singular would be "pidättekö junan".
10:14:05 <fizzie> (Sometimes the accusative is identical to the nominative.)
10:15:31 <fizzie> https://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/finnish-cases.html might be a good overview of the Finnish noun cases.
10:15:36 <fizzie> And Korpela's website in general.
10:16:31 <shachaf> J_Arcane2: I think you're at least missing a ko.
10:16:36 <fizzie> It doesn't list accusative as a noun case in the table, but it's mentioned in note #15.
10:16:50 <J_Arcane2> My brain's a bit mush at the moment.
10:17:21 <J_Arcane2> I'm studying it, but sometimes on the weekends my brain just rebels for the first day after a week of being shouted at in Finnish ...
10:18:03 <fizzie> And informally -- at least when speaking instead of writing -- you could probably "legally" leave the -ko out.
10:18:25 <fizzie> If you otherwise sound interrogative enough.
10:18:52 <scarf> so many prepositions become cases in other languages
10:19:06 <scarf> although, English has a genitive, that's a preposition in French
10:19:11 <shachaf> Presumably a bit like "You're studying Finnish?" rather than "Are you studying Finnish?".
10:19:17 <J_Arcane2> That's the trouble with learning Finnish; it's taught in the strictest style possible, while many actual Finns are a lot more loose about things.
10:19:48 <scarf> preposition ←→ case seems like a common transformation between languages
10:20:38 <shachaf> What is the disadvantage of prepositions?
10:20:41 <J_Arcane2> Yes. English has a surplus of prepositions.
10:21:37 <scarf> "(Even Finns have problems in selecting the correct case when using a less common municipality name. A list of municipality names and their cases has been composed for such purposes.)"
10:21:47 <J_Arcane2> The infinitive "to" form, for instance, doesn't seem to be bothered with in many other languages. Same with "The", which is instead often either implied or just a case.
10:21:47 <scarf> shachaf: well, there is this thing I was working on called grammartree
10:22:01 <scarf> prepositions were one of the hardest bits to handle
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10:37:16 <mroman_> !bfjoust watch (>>>+++)*3>([(+)*9[-].]>)*4
10:37:17 <zemhill> mroman_.watch: points -34.21, score 2.80, rank 47/47
10:37:25 <mroman_> !bfjoust watch (>>>+++)*3>([(+)*9[-].]>)*-1
10:37:25 <zemhill> mroman_.watch: points -18.57, score 8.65, rank 47/47 (--)
10:37:53 <mroman_> !bfjoust watch (>>>+++)*3>([(+)*9[-].]>)*4(<<<--)*3([(+)*9[-].]>)*-1
10:37:55 <zemhill> mroman_.watch: points -27.29, score 4.28, rank 47/47 (--)
10:38:00 <fizzie> This whole "inner/outer case is completely random for place names" thing is silly.
10:38:51 <scarf> what happens if you intentionally use the wrong one?
10:39:04 <fizzie> An exception is thrown.
10:39:15 <mroman_> !bfjoust slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>([(-)*10[+]]>)*-1
10:39:16 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -26.69, score 5.26, rank 47/47
10:39:19 <mroman_> !bfjoust slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>([(-)*10[+].]>)*-1
10:39:20 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -27.50, score 5.15, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:22 <fizzie> Okay, in many cases it just "sounds wrong".
10:39:24 <mroman_> !bfjoust slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:25 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -26.14, score 5.41, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:31 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:31 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -26.14, score 5.41, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:39 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:39 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -25.45, score 5.65, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:42 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:42 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -24.95, score 5.86, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:45 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:45 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -24.33, score 6.17, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:49 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:49 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -22.67, score 6.73, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:52 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:52 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.69, score 7.16, rank 47/47 (--)
10:39:57 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:39:57 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.60, score 7.26, rank 47/47 (--)
10:40:00 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:40:01 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.02, score 7.58, rank 47/47 (--)
10:40:07 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>>>>>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:40:07 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.12, score 7.54, rank 47/47 (--)
10:40:16 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>--)*6>>>>>>>>([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:40:16 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.52, score 7.33, rank 47/47 (--)
10:40:27 <mroman_> !bftest slow (>(+)*128)*3(>-)*6>->->->->->->->([(-)*8[+]]>)*-1
10:40:27 <zemhill> mroman_.slow: points -21.21, score 7.34, rank 47/47 (--)
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12:05:28 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * BernadeMerz * New user account
12:05:34 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Abuse filter * blocked [[User:BernadeMerz]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Automatically blocked by abuse filter. Description of matched rule: first edit is to user page and contains spambot-like use of br tag
12:11:30 <ais523> it's hardly spamming recent changes because it normally comes right after a spambot creating an account, which is also a recent changes action
12:12:01 <ais523> "has lots of interests that include frisbee golf, acne scars removal and collecting"
12:12:09 <ais523> clearly these are randomly generated profiles
12:12:29 <ais523> ah no, acne scar removal's what they're advertising, but the link is elsewhere
12:12:54 <ais523> incidentally, according to Wikipedia, frisbee golf does actually exist
12:13:19 <AndoDaan> never played it, but if i could i would.
12:13:53 <ais523> "A disc is considered at rest once it is no longer moving. If the disc breaks into pieces the largest piece establishes position."
12:14:08 <ais523> I like the way that this rule not only exists, but is actually mentioned in an introductory primer on Wikipedia
12:15:47 <ais523> oh hmm, it seems that instead of swapping out clubs, the players have specific disks for specific sorts of throw
12:17:58 <ais523> now I'm wondering what it was that that spambot collected
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12:41:10 <J_Arcane2> Where I went to college we had a frisbee golf course in the woods around the library.
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13:02:38 <Melvar> < fizzie> scarf: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-Bahn#D.C3.BCsseldorf_Airport <- this Düsseldorf airport one, so the hanging-from-the-rail style. – I live in Wuppertal, where we have such a train system as public transportation, operating since 1901.
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13:28:33 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/newusers]] create * DorthyBraswell * New user account
13:28:36 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Abuse filter * blocked [[User:DorthyBraswell]] with an expiry time of indefinite (account creation disabled): Automatically blocked by abuse filter. Description of matched rule: first edit is to user page and contains spambot-like use of br tag
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13:38:42 <zemhill> david_werecat.pheonix: points 7.38, score 27.77, rank 9/47 (--)
13:43:47 <boily> huh, a bfjoust entry without the person having had entered the code first here?
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13:54:17 <mroman_> boily: websubmission probably
13:54:28 <mroman_> to reduce channel bandwidth you can submit from outside
13:54:53 <HackEgo> [wiki] [[Flow chart]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40576&oldid=40573 * Tastyfish * (+129)
14:04:04 <AndoDaan> mroman_,: is there a shorter way to get "\n" on the stack in burlesque?
14:05:25 <mroman_> for char just use ' followed by a newline
14:05:36 <mroman_> for string just do " followed by a newline followed by "
14:05:47 <mroman_> http://codepad.org/ar8wGWsG <- like that
14:06:08 <AndoDaan> you know, i never thought of using newlines in my burlesque code, i'm dumb
14:07:46 <mroman_> the only thing a string can't contain is " :)
14:08:04 <mroman_> but other than that you can embed any character directly without using escape sequences
14:46:35 <myname> how well does blsq handle infinite lists?
14:51:08 <Taneb> Is there a way, in a single Python file, with no knowledge of libraries installed other than the standard library, I can do calculation on a GPU?
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15:16:50 <Bike> "no knowledge"?
15:23:23 <J_Arcane2> https://searchcode.com/?q=if%28version%2Cstartswith%28%22windows+9%22
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15:51:18 <lambdabot> CYUL 041538Z 15018G25KT 2 1/2SM RA BR BKN006 OVC028 14/12 A2958 RMK SF6SC2 SLP017 DENSITY ALT 300FT
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16:15:39 <J_Arcane2> Huh. Haskell is #12 in the new Gartner index: http://blogs.gartner.com/mark_driver/2014/10/02/gartner-programming-language-index-for-2014/
16:22:32 <boily> what does the Gartner measure? is it similar to TIOBE?
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16:24:32 <J_Arcane2> Corporate client feedback and use, apparently, as well as public repos and certain popular web sources like stackoverflow.
16:26:33 <boily> twelve is a nice spot, then. successful while avoiding success.
16:28:50 <J_Arcane2> :D I was just surprised that it would score so high on a corporate-weighted index: I know Clojure's seen some inroads by piggybacking on the needs of Java programmers desperate to program in anything but Java.
16:41:28 <boily> the language is nice. it has some built-in idiosyncracies, but otherwise it's quite fine.
16:41:54 <boily> it's all the surrounding enterprisiness and ecosystem and overly-dramatic lasagna code I can't stand.
16:44:19 <J_Arcane2> It's weird. Back in the day I was curious about Java as a language, but put off by awful performance. Now Java is fast, but the way it's coded makes my brain hurt.
16:45:13 <J_Arcane2> But well, comnig next fall I have to choose between two apprenticeships, one of which is a CS diploma course with a lot of 'cloud' and 'data scaling' buzzwords in it, and the other of which is Java EE ...
16:46:13 <J_Arcane2> LordCreepity: Code that is so unnecessarily layered and refactored that finding any thing specific in it requires better-than-Google search algorithms, let alone debugging anything.
16:47:54 <J_Arcane2> LordCreepity: The archetype parody: https://github.com/EnterpriseQualityCoding/FizzBuzzEnterpriseEdition
16:48:59 <boily> nothing surprising there. code has this natural tendency to laminally degenerate. it's when you suddenly find what you were searching for 10-layers deep in the class hierarchy, nested between arbitrary Abstract and Generic Factory Adapters that you remember that as a responsible adult it's a good thing you're not always keeping a fire axe within reach.
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16:49:47 <boily> laundry done, time for a nap...
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17:15:40 <int-e> LordCreepity: please don't tell me you didn't wear any protection while approaching that code
17:16:41 <int-e> is fungot any good ad decontamination?
17:16:41 <fungot> int-e: ( ( we didn't know how bad it was based on a true life story or something yeah
17:18:08 <int-e> what about your brain?
17:18:40 <int-e> fungot, could you fetch the pills, please?
17:18:40 <fungot> int-e: ( ( mm)) there's an imbalance now um i live in kansas
17:19:37 <int-e> aww, too bad that oerjan isn't here to marvel at the balanced parentheses right next to the term "imbalance".
17:19:51 <int-e> fungot outdid itself there
17:19:51 <fungot> int-e: so it's a big fnord person so i enjoy it and and i think my first attempt at it somehow evaporated into thin air i was a kid
17:21:29 -!- conehead has joined.
17:28:44 <fizzie> fungot: When were you a kid?
17:28:44 <fungot> fizzie: because if if if you have fnord so i've only this is my
17:28:45 -!- G33kDude has joined.
17:29:47 <fungot> Available: agora alice c64 ct darwin discworld enron europarl ff7 fisher* fungot homestuck ic irc iwcs jargon lovecraft nethack oots pa qwantz sms speeches ss wp youtube
17:30:07 <fizzie> fungot: What are you even talking about?
17:30:08 <fungot> fizzie: oh my first time i saw something like odd on the street market whatever
17:30:45 <int-e> I cherish fungot's coherent moments, they are so rare.
17:30:45 <fungot> int-e: it just really sigh improves your perception of things so noise noise
17:31:03 <int-e> err, did that count? it almost made sense..
17:31:47 <fizzie> Some styles make them happen more often than others.
17:32:05 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
17:32:06 <fizzie> fungot: Please give an analysis of the current economic climate, please.
17:32:07 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, ladies and gentlemen, the commission does not have the support, not only by women, but men, who get to fill the jobs available or by giving them training, recognized in terms of balance between the interests of protection against noise. aware of the consequences of the implementation of the principle of enhanced cooperation. all these proposals should be turned into practical action, i.e. the handicap of r
17:32:49 <int-e> well done, answered like a true politician
17:32:58 <fizzie> fungot: What are the consequences of the principle of enhanced coöperation?
17:32:59 <fungot> fizzie: i wish to make three comments at the conclusion of this agreement, they are politicians and, not least towards parliament, because we have implemented a study of the various stages of the production refunds for sugar for european countries from which these desperate people flee. perhaps then, we must respond to the questions that we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle, i met a group called ' september
17:33:11 <int-e> (in that by the end of the statement, nothing was said but the question is forgotten)
17:33:34 <fizzie> That last one went to a weird place.
17:33:59 <fizzie> But I like the "sugar for european countries from which these desperate people flee" part.
17:34:25 <int-e> `addquote fungot we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle
17:34:26 <fungot> int-e: mr president, i would say to mrs flemming that the entire policy for the eu, that we can take an overall view of the forthcoming negotiating round of the wto are resumed next year, which would include legislation and information to parliament.
17:34:27 <HackEgo> 1222) fungot we have today opened a smoking zone behind the hemicycle
17:35:21 <HackEgo> 1221) <ais523> GeekDude: there's not much point in addquoting someone doing an addquote
17:35:24 <fizzie> `run sed -i -e '1222s/fungot/<fungot>/'
17:35:25 <fungot> fizzie: mr rocard has succeeded in presenting an extremely strong case and managed to table sound amendments. i do not wish to speak at the beginning of the next such situation, and that it must not be increased as it already costs us a bit with the united states
17:35:29 <fizzie> `run sed -i -e '1222s/fungot/<fungot>/' quotes
17:35:29 <fungot> fizzie: mr president, there are still critics of the eu common position on the first question, demilitarisation, i can only suggest that you reconsider the simplified labelling system. this is why the community should be used to the system would gain the satisfaction that the rapporteur, mrs montfort, has done.
17:36:24 <fizzie> In retrospect, /<&>/ would've been shorter.
17:36:53 <fungot> Selected style: enron (subset of the Enron email dataset)
17:37:01 <fizzie> That's not preprocessed very well.
17:37:08 <int-e> fungot: is the enron style as evasive as the euparl one?
17:37:09 <fungot> int-e: " we charge all and the address for the following will also attend: power demand." gshebleiastate.edu on 10/ 10 to 4 and people want you to know any major complications of a new and ever increasing theft of supplies of various) target accounts that had we, the decision on the number of questions of the over the top.
17:37:48 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
17:40:31 <fizzie> I'm a bit unclear as to how reconsidering the simplified labelling system will help in matters related to demilitarisation.
17:41:59 <b_jonas> fungot, how many candles do you have on your cake?
17:42:00 <fungot> b_jonas: mr president, i am very grateful to the commission to say that the matter has been raised as an issue to be raised by the future dutch presidency plans to organise a debate in the convention and that the various parties, instead of being used for maritime transport and fisheries.
17:42:16 <myname> i do think fungot is pretty amazing for a bot written in befunge
17:42:18 <fungot> myname: mr president, a civilised society. when you made the statement and hope we will achieve nothing more than a century old and which has modified their traditional roles. the information in order to conceal our weaknesses. i will say that the external actions of the european ombudsman again, a woman who has spent hours of frustration at airports, which has been one of the spouses to bear all the expenses incurred in financ
17:43:31 <int-e> hah. a woman who has spent hours of frustration at airports
17:43:39 <int-e> I can relate to that
17:44:31 <fizzie> Original source comment: "Each one of us who has spent hours of frustration at airports, which has definitely been the case this winter, and in traffic chaos on the roads, which has also been the case, know just how imperative it is to create an efficient rail system linking the whole of Europe."
17:44:36 -!- shikhout has changed nick to shikhin.
17:45:23 <fizzie> And for the earlier half: "What happens to a woman who has spent twenty years with a husband who then leaves her?"
17:45:38 <int-e> That is marginally more coherent than what fungot made of it. :)
17:45:38 <fungot> int-e: mr president, i thank mr prodi for the fact that the netherlands, have very effective environmentally friendly treatments which make an environmental impact assessment. we can see, mr president, this is, of course, one of which is " gross national product and support for these products. amendment no 3
17:46:51 <myname> i wonder what'll happen if we'd feed it with law texts
17:47:55 <fungot> Selected style: sms (National University of Singapore SMS corpus, 2011-08-20)
17:48:10 <int-e> fungot, say something funny, please?
17:48:10 <fungot> int-e: nw i has cum mre frm urself thn frm othrs hav done
17:48:36 <fungot> int-e: cal me ra hun .tm sunao? gud morning andrew. plz giv me one color?
17:49:02 <fungot> Selected style: europarl (European Parliament speeches during approx. 1996-2006)
17:49:10 <int-e> That sms style hurts so much.
17:50:09 <fizzie> It's very true to life.
17:53:06 <myname> .oO( should i make an esolang that looks like sms? )
17:56:01 <elliott_> "nw i has cum mre frm urself thn frm othrs hav done" is scarily close to coherency
17:56:27 -!- erdic has quit (Quit: leaving).
17:57:46 -!- erdic has joined.
18:01:34 <J_Arcane2> myname: well, there's already the cheeseburger lang, knock out a few more vowels and it wouldn't be far off.
18:02:26 <myname> J_Arcane2: the question is: does it annoy int-e?
18:03:05 <J_Arcane2> personally, I think a snake-based lang would be more interesting. ;)
18:03:28 -!- G33kDude has changed nick to GeekDude.
18:07:42 <J_Arcane2> Hmm. Well, what if snake sections stored values?
18:13:07 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)).
18:17:58 <Jafet> Define snake on a fractal tiling
18:31:03 <zemhill> david_werecat.pheonix: points 8.60, score 29.35, rank 7/47 (+2)
18:32:53 <zemhill> david_werecat.pheonix: points 8.69, score 29.49, rank 7/47 (--)
18:34:50 <mroman_> !blsq 1R@{?i}m[{10.>}f[10.+
18:34:50 <blsqbot> {11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20}
18:35:11 <mroman_> > take 10 . filter (> 10) . map succ $ [1..]
18:35:29 <myname> mroman_: do you have a highlight on blsq?
18:35:42 <mroman_> myname: It's written in Haskell, so it inherited a lot of laziness.
18:35:54 <blsqbot> {144 89 55 34 21 13 8 5 3 2 1 1}
18:36:13 <mroman_> or what else do you mean by highlight
18:38:36 <Bike> something to ping you when someone says "blsq"
18:41:18 <mroman_> !blsq "ABC\nCBA\nBCA"ln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[
18:41:41 <mroman_> That's still my favorite Burlesque program though :)
18:41:51 <mroman_> !blsq "ABC\nCBA\nBCA\nACC"ln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[
18:42:18 <mroman_> !blsq "ABC\nCBA\n"ln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[
18:42:33 <blsqbot> {"" "A" "B" "AB" "C" "AC" "BC" "ABC"}
18:42:36 <blsqbot> {"ABC" "BAC" "CBA" "BCA" "CAB" "ACB"}
18:42:41 <blsqbot> ERROR: (line 1, column 9):
18:42:42 <blsqbot> "ABC\nBAC\nCBA\nBCA\nCAB\nACB"
18:42:51 <mroman_> !blsq "ABC"r@[-unln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[
18:43:10 <mroman_> ln)XXtp)><)F:)<]u[/v\[ given a set of permutations returns the missing permutations
18:43:22 <mroman_> that is, if and only if exactly one permutation is missing
18:43:59 <myname> how the hell can you memorize that stuff
18:45:39 <mroman_> lines . map explode . transpose . map sort . map frequencies . map min . ungroup . swappop . concat
18:45:53 <mroman_> myname: I just know them :)
18:46:01 <mroman_> I mean... I wrote the interpreter and the Documentation
18:46:05 <mroman_> so that helped a lot in learning them
18:46:16 <mroman_> also I golf frequently in it. That' helps memorizing it too
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18:47:34 <mroman_> !blsq 1 2 3 "mark" 4 5 6 7CL{"mark"!=}TW[-
18:47:39 <mroman_> !blsq 1 2 3 "mark" 4 5 6 7CL{"mark"!=}TW
18:48:37 <mroman_> myname: Also I have nothing better to do than working on burlesque
18:49:52 <mroman_> also the commands kinda give a hint to what they do
18:50:05 <mroman_> TW is obviously some sort of TakeWhile
18:50:41 <mroman_> [ is the beginning of the list
18:50:42 <j-bot> mroman_: is (the beginning of the list)
18:50:49 <j-bot> mroman_: |value error: hu
18:51:05 <j-bot> mroman_: 4 6 8 6 5
18:51:05 <j-bot> mroman_: 8 6 6 6 9
18:51:05 <j-bot> mroman_: 3 2 3 1 9
18:51:05 <j-bot> mroman_: 2 7 0 9 5
18:51:05 <j-bot> mroman_: 7 7 9 7 4
18:51:12 <j-bot> mroman_: 4 6 8 6 5 8 6 6 6 9 3 2 3 1 9 2 7 0 9 5 7 7 9 7 4 8 7 4 2 1 1 0 4 3 9 3 2 7 4 4 0 3 7 5 9 6 3 2 8 2
18:51:13 <j-bot> mroman_: 0 3 5 4 0 0 3 1 5 0 4 0 2 9 2 4 0 0 7 7 5 7 3 1 6 3 1 5 8 9 8 5 3 9 9 8 9 5 1 1 0 4 1 7 3 2 3 4 0 4
18:51:13 <j-bot> mroman_: 9 4 9 5 9 0 1 9 7 3 5 2 4 8 1 5 6 5 9 5 0 1 8 4 1 5 5 9 1 9 6 6 0 5 5 5 7 2 4 6 0 0 8 2 2 5 1 9 7 8
18:51:13 <j-bot> mroman_: 9 4 9 9 1 2 2 0 7 1 7 0 0 1 5 8 0 6 5 5 8 8 2 4 9 9 6 6 5 6 6 4 9 0 0 3 1 3 5 6 8 6 6 8 4 0 0 4 3 4
18:51:13 <j-bot> mroman_: 7 5 0 2 8 8 3 6 4 4 4 4 0 7 1 2 2 7 2 6 1 2 9 0 3 3 2 2 9 6 1 7 5 0 7 3 9 3 9 2 5 8 2 9 8 9 5 9 8 7
18:51:29 <HackEgo> cat: botprefixes: No such file or directory
18:52:45 <mroman_> but mostly it's still because I have nothing better to do than working on burlesque
18:53:10 <mroman_> creating esolang's gotten kinda boring
18:53:29 <mroman_> "oh great. another bf derivative." "oh great. another queue thingy" "oh great. another stack based thingy"
18:53:39 <mroman_> "oh great. another thingy with string replacements"
18:54:48 <mroman_> I'm out of new freaky ideas
18:56:20 <J_Arcane2> That's why I went for faux-vintage instead.
18:56:32 <J_Arcane2> I'm more a retrocomputing guy anyway.
18:56:59 <Bike> i only use computers built on BJTs, the data are smoother that way
18:57:39 <mroman_> I should do some z80 sometime
18:57:54 <J_Arcane2> myname: ie. when I wrote an esolang, I was mostly interested in writing something that would feel accurately awful to a certain point in time.
18:59:59 <zzo38> How much do you know z80 stuff? Do you know 6502 too? I do 6502
19:00:55 <mroman_> I don't know anything about z80 so far
19:01:01 <mroman_> but you can golf in it on anagol
19:01:08 <mroman_> so that's sort of a motivation to learn it
19:01:10 <zzo38> mroman_: Yes, I know that already
19:01:39 <zzo38> (Also, there is the NMOS 6502 and CMOS 6502, which have differences. I happen to like the NMOS 6502 instruction set, but it could probably be implemented in CMOS as well)
19:01:41 <mroman_> but all the info links for z80 on anagol are 404 or dead
19:02:39 <mroman_> wp says 6502 has lots of undocumented opcodes
19:02:40 -!- torchwood33 has joined.
19:02:53 <mroman_> why the hell would you not document opcodes for your processor if you're going to sell it
19:02:57 <zzo38> Yes, there are a lot, and I have used many of the stable ones
19:03:14 <zzo38> mroman_: They were unintended, and are also NMOS only
19:03:56 <zzo38> For example, LAX loads data into both the A and X registers. SAX stores the bitwise AND of the A and X registers.
19:05:25 -!- torchwood33 has left.
19:05:36 <zzo38> DCP is "decrement and compare". ANC is like AND immediate but also copies the high bit of the result into the carry flag. AXS and ARR are a bit strange.
19:06:24 <pikhq> mroman_: To elaborate on zzo38's explanation: the undocumented opcodes were just consequences of how the opcode decode circuitry worked. With unintended bit patterns they just activated random parts of the CPU.
19:06:40 <pikhq> Which happened to do things that were a bit weird but useful.
19:07:00 <zzo38> Some are unstable though, and should not be used.
19:07:18 <mroman_> they don't work all the time?
19:07:32 <pikhq> As you might expect from "opcode decode circuitry triggering parts of the CPU with no design behind it".
19:07:46 <pikhq> mroman_: Or can get the CPU into odd states.
19:07:51 <zzo38> Yes, they don't work all the time, and/or can cause the CPU to stop sometimes or all of the time.
19:08:13 <mroman_> http://www.6502.org/source/games/uchess/uchess.htm <- impressing
19:08:44 <zzo38> (Many unofficial opcodes just stop the CPU until it is reset; not even IRQ and NMI will work until it is reset.)
19:10:09 <Sgeo> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Sgeo/null-edit-detector&action=history
19:11:02 -!- conehead has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds).
19:20:45 <mroman_> there's an A and an X register
19:21:26 <fizzie> Don't forget the P and the S and the PC.
19:21:41 <b_jonas> P? is that the flags/condition code?
19:21:50 <b_jonas> I thought that was called F
19:21:56 <mroman_> not unusual for Microprocessors to implicitly use accumulator a lot
19:22:17 <fizzie> b_jonas: I don't know how it's called in the manual, I was just going from the naming of the PLP/PHP instructions.
19:22:32 <coppro> the only correct thing to do with the accumulator is to increment it
19:22:35 <b_jonas> I call it F only because of z80 probably
19:22:59 <b_jonas> but z80 has a very different set of flags and use for that register
19:23:17 <b_jonas> that's where 8086 has inherited it
19:24:37 <fizzie> Current Intel manuals call it EFLAGS/RFLAGS.
19:25:09 <b_jonas> but that's still the same as z80's flags register
19:25:17 <b_jonas> only now it has a super useful overflow flag
19:25:29 <fizzie> Well, it's the same as the Intel 8080 flag register.
19:25:47 <fizzie> Z80 is intentionally 8080-ish.
19:26:11 <fizzie> Having been designed by an ex-Intel employee who worked on the 8080.
19:26:27 <mroman_> but 8086 doesn't give you direct access to the flags register
19:26:37 <b_jonas> and 8086 is intentionally z80-ish, and x86_32 is intentionally 8086ish, and x86_64 is intentionally x86_32-ish
19:26:52 <b_jonas> 8086 still has pushf and popf instructions
19:27:03 <mroman_> but it's not an "adressable" register
19:27:09 <b_jonas> also the obsolate SAHF and SALF
19:27:28 <b_jonas> why would it have to be "addressable"? it has fixed bits and stuff
19:27:28 <mroman_> which means you need opcodes for that
19:27:45 <mroman_> b_jonas: You can't set/clear or read flags nicely
19:28:04 <mroman_> you need extra instructions
19:28:30 <b_jonas> sure, but no cpu has AND F, 011b, right
19:28:45 <b_jonas> oh wait, maybe some of ARM does
19:28:56 <int-e> @tell oerjan here's another 22 characters PATH, slightly modifying your submission: ``cd`c``@k````?:ird`|c
19:30:14 <b_jonas> mroman_: were you thinking of ARM or what?
19:31:20 <b_jonas> mroman_: in z80, the eight addressable registers are A, B, C, D, E, L, H, and [LH] (replacable with [IX] and [IY] with a prefix) I think
19:31:35 <b_jonas> you can't access the flags register directly
19:36:48 <fizzie> I've always seen it denoted (hl).
19:37:43 <fizzie> And the 16-bit load/arithmetic groups have two-bit encodings for the "registers" bc, de, hl and sp.
19:38:06 <b_jonas> I never really programmed z80, I'm only interested because it explains so many things about x86
19:38:27 <fizzie> Yes. I have the manual right here.
19:39:53 <fizzie> IIRC, you can also do quite a lot to "IXL"/"IXH" and "IYL"/"IYH" in an undocumented way by using 8-bit instructions that access H/L but prefixing the opcode prefix that the usual IX/IY instructions use. (Another unintended-but-logical consequence of opcode decoding circuitry design.)
19:40:27 <b_jonas> how does that work? does it use the high or the low byte of IX?
19:40:59 <fizzie> If you access H, it'll use the high byte of IX, and if you access L, it'll use the low byte of IX.
19:41:04 <zzo38> coppro: In 6502, incrementing is one of the few things that the accumulator does not do. (You can SEC and ADC #0, but there is no "increment accumulator" instruction.)
19:41:07 <b_jonas> but you can't do that on x86
19:41:32 <fizzie> There's no IX/IY on x86, at least ones that'd work like that.
19:41:49 <b_jonas> fizzie: I think the SI and DI are the IX and IY on the x86, in some order
19:42:04 <fizzie> Not really, since they have numbers in the GPR encodings.
19:42:10 <b_jonas> and the BX of x86 is the LH of z80
19:42:30 <b_jonas> but the point about x86 was that any single z80 instruction can be mapped to a single x86 instruction
19:42:33 <fizzie> On Z80, you take something lke "LD HL, nn" and add a prefix byte to make it "LD IX, nn"/"LD IY, nn".
19:42:56 <fizzie> So it makes sense that the prefix bytes just pretty much tells the processor to "instead of HL, pipe in IX/IY".
19:43:04 <b_jonas> that's why x86 has some of the crazier instructions like LAHF
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19:44:04 <fizzie> So what's the x86 equivalent to LD A, R? :)
19:44:06 <b_jonas> and that works for both 16 bit access of HL and for indirect access
19:44:29 <b_jonas> fizzie: R? what's R? but the A register is equivalent to AL on x86
19:44:37 <fizzie> R is the memory refresh register.
19:44:44 <fizzie> Also the "random number if you're really lazy" register.
19:45:15 <b_jonas> is there even such an instruction?
19:45:23 <fizzie> Not on x86, but yes on Z80.
19:45:38 <fizzie> There's a memory refresh counter, it's seven lowest bits are automatically incremented after each instruction fetch.
19:45:41 <b_jonas> I mean, z80 can't have undocumented instructions, can it? all of the 256 instructions in its table are full, right?
19:45:59 <fizzie> "LD A, R" is not undocumented.
19:46:04 <fizzie> But I don't think the table is full either.
19:46:09 <fizzie> At least the tables with the prefix bytes.
19:46:15 <fizzie> The single-byte opcode table might be.
19:46:19 <b_jonas> the one with prefix bytes isn't, yes
19:46:39 <b_jonas> it's the single-byte opcode table that's full, except maybe for one instruction that's in the place of LD [HL], [HL]
19:47:41 <fizzie> "The Z80 CPU contains a memory refresh counter, enabling dynamic memories to be used with the same ease as static memories. Seven bits of this 8-bit register are automatically incremented after each instruction fetch. The eighth bit remains as programmed, resulting from an LD R, A instruction. The data in the refresh counter is sent out on the lower portion of the address bus along with a ...
19:47:47 <fizzie> ... refresh control signal while the CPU is decoding and executing the fetched instruction."
19:48:02 <fizzie> The idea being that if you have some DRAM that needs a refresh signal, you don't have to add any hardware for it, you can get it out of the CPU for free.
19:49:01 <fizzie> As a result, you can kinda-sorta use R for random numbers, if you call it at long-enough, unpredictable intervals.
19:49:31 <fizzie> The best TI-86 Befunge interpreter there is uses R to implement its ?, which makes the hunt-the-wumpus game sometimes fail in its maze-building many times in a row.
19:50:06 <fizzie> I'm not entirely sure if it's because of the low-quality ? or just a peculiarity of the game.
19:51:31 <b_jonas> well, I don't think x86 has that
19:51:39 <b_jonas> at least I haven't heared of such a thing
19:51:43 <boily> quintopia: QUINTHELLOPIA!
19:53:30 <fizzie> The Z80 single-byte main instruction table is indeed full of documented instructions.
19:53:47 <fizzie> The one that'd be "ld (hl), (hl)" logically is the "halt" instruction.
19:54:23 <b_jonas> and which instructions are in the shifted table? the 16 bit ones and the shift/rotates?
19:55:52 <fizzie> There's the "bit instructions" table with the CB prefix; that's shifts, rotates and set-bit instructions, and it's also entirely full except for the "shift left, logical" slot, which contains the undocumented "SLL"/"SL1" instruction that shifts left but fills with 1 instead of 0.
19:56:25 <fizzie> And there's the "extended instructions" (ED prefix) table, which is a lot less full.
19:56:37 <b_jonas> nor that there were two shifts
19:57:13 <b_jonas> wait, how did they fill the shift/rotate table?
19:57:14 <fizzie> There's also the IX/IY prefixes (DD. FD) and the combined DDCB, FDCB for bit instructions involving IX/IY.
19:57:29 <fizzie> Most of it is full of BIT/RES/SET instructions with different immediates.
19:57:35 <fizzie> It takes 8 opcodes to cover 0..7.
19:58:07 <b_jonas> so that leaves 64, which is 8 kinds of shift times 8 registers?
19:58:35 <fizzie> Yes. rlc, rrc, rl, rr, sla, sra, srl and the "sll".
19:59:03 <b_jonas> fizzie: are those all count 1 only?
19:59:16 <b_jonas> or are there variable count shifts?
19:59:25 <b_jonas> were they immediate counts?
19:59:32 <fizzie> Yes, I don't think it can shift more than by 1.
19:59:40 <fizzie> Unless you count the rather funny RLD/RRD instructions.
19:59:52 <fizzie> Which rotate a group of three nybbles.
20:00:17 <fizzie> The low nybble of A, and the two nybbles at the byte in memory pointed by hl.
20:00:54 <b_jonas> I can understand when a cpu doesn't want to implement variable shifts, but what's the point of an sla instruction that takes two bytes? can't you just add instead? I don't understand why the 6503 has a left shift either, even if it's a one byte encoding there.
20:01:08 <b_jonas> is left shift so important to worth an instruction in such small instruction sets?
20:01:25 <fizzie> You can't "add (hl), (hl)", at least.
20:02:11 <b_jonas> can't you at least LD A, (HL); ADD A, (HL), LD (HL), A?
20:02:17 <b_jonas> I know that's three bytes but still
20:02:31 <b_jonas> or is left shift so important if you don't have a multiply instruction?
20:03:53 <fizzie> Oh, you can't add to anything else than the accumulator, too, of course. So to replace the shift you'd need something like those three instructions even for "SLA r".
20:04:38 <fizzie> Except for "SLA A", which is in fact slower than "ADD A, A".
20:04:39 <b_jonas> now I'll have to find a good z80 documentation, or find my own notes
20:05:14 <fizzie> I've always just used the official User Manual.
20:05:21 <fizzie> The PDF has a proper index and all.
20:05:27 <fizzie> http://www.zilog.com/manage_directlink.php?filepath=docs/z80/um0080
20:06:02 <fizzie> Though it does have a couple of typos in the instruction encodings, and it doesn't have a good opcode-ordered table.
20:06:10 <fizzie> See http://clrhome.org/table/ for the latter.
20:06:45 <fizzie> I used to have a paper copy of the manual too, but I gave it away as a gift, if I recall correctly.
20:07:20 <b_jonas> there's a separate nop instruction encoded as 00? isn't ld b,b supposed to be doing that?
20:08:54 <fizzie> I don't see any obvious differences between "ld b,b", "ld c,c", ..., "ld a,a" and the official "nop".
20:09:10 <fizzie> They all take the same amount of time, too.
20:09:32 <b_jonas> nop instructions are useful, and I like them
20:09:40 <b_jonas> but I don't see why there's an extra if ld b,b already works
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20:10:48 <fizzie> The table I linked to has the undocumented-but-"well-known" instructions marked in red.
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20:11:56 <fizzie> You can "inc ixl" or so on, which might be useful if you wanted, say, a 256-byte circular buffer that's 256-byte aligned.
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20:40:51 <fizzie> Look at Wolfram Research being "hip" and "with it": https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/113389132/Misc/20141004-ad.png
20:42:03 <J_Arcane> a hah aha hah that would've been so cool in 2003 ...
20:42:29 <fizzie> I assume it's "ironic" now.
20:42:33 <elliott_> all your base are belong to us. mathematica now with base conversion support
20:44:35 <fizzie> There's no AYBABTU joke if I do "?BaseForm" in Mathematica 10.0.
20:44:53 <fizzie> But maybe they've added that in 10.0.1, our systems don't seem updated yet.
20:45:00 <Bicyclidine> i think i've literally never seen that initialism ever
20:54:51 <boily> wikipédia says it's common. maybe it's another fnord planted by our Evil Fungottian Overlords?
20:55:32 <fungot> fizzie: madam president, commissioner, it would seem that the office is part of a political prisoner to die on hunger strike in protest against the government's crackdown on the group.
20:56:47 <b_jonas> fungot, do you use the undocumented opcodes of z80? how about the R (memory refresh) register?
20:56:48 <fungot> b_jonas: madam president, my aim is to create a new world order, first envisaged at the moment and its fnord successor to a fundamental system change for the small business has got over the start-up problem and shown some success in this work: the defence of human rights, democratic principles and human rights, and that the ecu 1 billion decrease in the number of those who have made a proposal concerning a special social vat on
20:57:23 <fizzie> fungot: You're not supposed to just come out and *say* you're going to create a new world order.
20:57:23 <fungot> fizzie: i think that is the only company that we have dealt with there has been much talk in the council.
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21:38:42 <fizzie> It's TOO LATE for that, it's already sun-dae.
21:39:57 <newsham> sun dae is kim jong's wife?
21:42:58 <quintopia> fizzie: it may be sun-dae in the White City, but here in the land of the free, there's all of saturdy night to go!
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21:53:51 <oerjan> <int-e> aww, too bad that oerjan isn't here to marvel at the balanced parentheses right next to the term "imbalance". <-- by the powers of LOG i marvel
21:54:51 <lambdabot> int-e said 2h 25m 54s ago: here's another 22 characters PATH, slightly modifying your submission: ``cd`c``@k````?:ird`|c
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22:08:25 <b_jonas> whoa, what language is that in? it looks like unlambda
22:09:35 <b_jonas> um, but what does the colon do in unlambda? let me pull up a reference
22:09:54 <b_jonas> oh, that's a character quoted by the question mark
22:09:57 <b_jonas> for testing the last input
22:10:06 <b_jonas> unlambda has strange procedural input functions
22:10:23 <b_jonas> let me pull up a reference
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22:11:06 <oerjan> i sent an unlambda answer to http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?PATH , then int-e beat me.
22:11:10 <b_jonas> right, @ reads a character and then ?: tests it
22:11:17 <oerjan> and now he's even improved on my solution.
22:13:13 <oerjan> that problem seems to have a really canonical answer in haskell. all the solutions are minor variations, some are entirely identical.
22:13:51 <oerjan> (and the one i found but didn't bother to submit is identical to int-e's.)
22:14:03 <oerjan> presumably because we both prefer one-liners.
22:14:45 <b_jonas> it's funny how much quieter the city is during the night compared to the day
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