00:03:57 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 00:25:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:26:38 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 00:44:33 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: Nite). 00:58:56 -!- not^v has joined. 01:08:53 musl? 01:10:28 musl? is that like asl, but with more mu? 01:14:42 can you hex-edit patch an ISO, or does it have too much checksumming? 01:14:58 -!- zzo38 has joined. 01:27:36 -!- MoALTz has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 01:29:20 -!- MoALTz has joined. 01:31:08 Sgeo: musl is an alternative libc for Linux. 01:31:36 Its goal is to be a suitable replacement for glibc and uclibc. 01:31:47 And be reasonable and simple. 01:33:07 It's definitely the best libc. 01:46:18 does musl work well with C++ yet? 01:46:23 e.g., w/ libc++ 01:50:16 -!- boily has quit (Quit: NAVEL CHICKEN). 01:59:07 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 01:59:32 -!- Sprocklem has changed nick to Guest42306. 02:08:55 -!- zzo38 has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 02:12:52 -!- dianne has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 02:13:36 -!- not^v has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 02:13:57 -!- mahem1__ has joined. 02:14:12 -!- mahem1 has quit (Read error: No route to host). 02:15:03 -!- dianne has joined. 02:19:10 -!- not^v has joined. 02:58:03 -!- shikhout has joined. 03:01:00 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 03:09:04 -!- dianne has quit (Quit: byeanne). 03:17:33 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 03:24:09 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 03:30:30 -!- tromp_ has joined. 03:32:25 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 03:32:41 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:06:59 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:12:27 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 04:12:52 -!- not^v has joined. 04:24:29 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 04:33:45 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 04:41:57 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 04:43:51 -!- not^v has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 04:44:16 -!- not^v has joined. 04:45:07 -!- tromp_ has joined. 04:52:47 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 04:55:56 -!- tromp_ has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 05:06:00 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 05:07:17 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 05:10:25 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 05:26:45 -!- tromp_ has joined. 05:27:13 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 05:27:42 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 05:31:28 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 05:54:21 @tell oerjan I wanted something that someone could potentially run as-is in their own system, and `cc is not that. 05:54:21 Consider it noted. 06:02:11 Objective-C uses... C style varargs. Almost forgot about those 06:03:56 No apply 06:04:00 afaiu 06:06:50 Is there a ... deep reason C does varargs the way it does? 06:09:23 Many quirks of are probably explained by a desire to make it easy to retrofit to an existing implementation, at least. 06:10:05 Sgeo: because it was easy to implement back on very small machines, before function prototypes in C even existed 06:11:22 it's kind of funny how instead of apply you have a bunch of functions that are like some other function except they take a va_list 06:11:57 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 06:12:01 does derive from the older (not-standard-C) , which was slightly different, and designed for old-style function declarations. 06:13:47 Is it possible to mak a va_list in any way other than calling a function once with every argument at the same time? 06:14:13 Sgeo: in portable C, no. 06:15:27 @tell oerjan You're wrong. That's the way you golf on sites like codegolf.stackexchange.com but not on anagol 06:15:27 Consider it noted. 06:16:32 @tell oerjan It's part of the solution to find untested cases so that you maybe can get an even shorter program 06:16:32 Consider it noted. 06:17:09 va_copy is arguably a way to make a va_list, but that's not what you meant. 06:17:21 @tell oerjan anagol is about writing the shortest program that passes the testcases. That's it. Nobody is asking you to write a program that does more than that ;) 06:17:21 Consider it noted. 06:17:28 In Idris, would you also need at least one argument in order for a variadic function to be useful? In that, the function that determines the type that the function returns needs to be given something 06:17:57 `cc #include \n #define S(x) S_(x) \n #define S_(x) #x \n int main(void) { puts(S(va_arg(ap, sometype))); } 06:17:58 __builtin_va_arg(ap,sometype) 06:18:08 Aw, I was hoping for a tricky macro. :/ 06:18:26 yeah, i was disappointed when i looked that up. 06:19:28 http://c-faq.com/varargs/funcptr.html 06:19:34 @tell oerjan Some solutions for some anagol challenges even use random() (i.e. rand(2) for challenges where you have to answer with yes/no). Other submissions (e.g. python) make use a hash function and then you just brute-force some crazy magic-formula that gives you the answer based on the hash of the input. 06:19:35 Consider it noted. 06:19:35 Not even going to try to understand 06:19:52 `run echo '#include \nva_arg(ap, sometype)' | gcc -E -x c - 06:19:53 :1:20: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 1 3 4 \ # 40 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 3 4 \ typedef __builtin_va_list __gnuc_va_list; \ # 102 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linu 06:19:58 darn 06:20:00 `run python hash('abc') 06:20:00 bash: -c: line 0: syntax error near unexpected token `(' \ bash: -c: line 0: `python hash('abc')' 06:20:05 `run echo '#include \n va_arg(ap, sometype)' | gcc -E -x c - 06:20:06 :1:21: warning: extra tokens at end of #include directive [enabled by default] \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 1 3 4 \ # 40 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 3 4 \ typedef __builtin_va_list __gnuc_va_list; \ # 102 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linu 06:20:09 `run python -c "hash('abc')" 06:20:10 No output. 06:20:14 `run python -c "print hash('abc')" 06:20:15 1453079729188098211 06:20:16 i don't get you, string interpolation 06:20:30 You need echo -e. 06:20:35 For the \n. 06:20:37 `run echo -e '#include \n va_arg(ap, sometype)' | gcc -E -x c - 06:20:38 ​# 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 1 3 4 \ # 40 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 3 4 \ typedef __builtin_va_list __gnuc_va_list; \ # 102 "/usr/lib/gcc/x86_64-linux-gnu/4.7/include/stdarg.h" 3 4 \ typedef __gnuc_va_list va_list; \ # 2 "" 2 \ _ 06:20:44 cool 06:20:50 Though it'll still have lots of cruft; maybe a tail -n 1 too. 06:21:03 `run echo -e '#include \n va_arg(ap, sometype)' | tail -n 1 | gcc -E -x c - 06:21:04 ​# 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ # 1 "" \ va_arg(ap, sometype) 06:21:10 I mean, for the results. 06:21:13 oh, right, that's... yeah. 06:21:15 doy. 06:21:30 `run echo -e '#include \n va_arg(ap, sometype)' | gcc -E -x c - | tail -n 1 06:21:30 ​ __builtin_va_arg(ap,sometype) 06:21:38 so easy. 06:22:13 anyway, what's the S macro for in ur code, exactly 06:22:24 i.e. for abc def ghc jkl to 1 0 1 0 you can just use hash(x)%2 in python 06:22:29 stuff like that 06:22:35 Stringizing. And it needs the two macro layers not to stringize the argument literally. 06:22:58 oh, i see. 06:23:09 It goes approximately S(va_arg(ap, sometype)) -> _S([whatever va_arg expands to]) -> "[whatever va_arg expands to]". 06:23:26 While without S_ it would go S(va_arg(ap, sometype)) -> "va_arg(ap, sometype)". 06:23:27 Sgeo: just seems like a combo of C funcptr syntax being insane and the macroexpander running before parsing. 06:23:30 yeah, i see. 06:24:56 (*(sometype *)__builtin_va_arg((ap), (sometype *)0)) is what happens on the PGI C compiler. 06:25:17 Still no actual pointer arithmetic, but at least it's *something*. 06:27:02 Both ICC and "PathScale EKOPath(tm)" were the same level of boring as GCC. 06:28:01 wait, does gcc come with boehm 06:29:14 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 06:32:03 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 06:32:15 oh, for the objc runtime. 06:32:55 !bfjoust snail (>(-)*12>(+)*9)*5[>[(-)*8[+].]+](<)*9([(+)*9[-]]+>)*-1 06:32:56 mroman_.snail: points 1.67, score 22.37, rank 16/47 (+21) 06:33:34 this is weird 06:33:43 submitting this caused my other bot rushit to climb +30! 06:35:58 Maybe the bot's gotten confused. 06:37:14 I'll restart it to make sure the interpreter has exactly those programs that are stored in the files. 06:37:16 -!- zemhill has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 06:37:55 Okay, now it does not start up, thanks to crashing in the matrix library. I *really* should take care of that at some point, but don't again have time now. 06:38:31 -!- zemhill has joined. 06:38:35 !bfjoust refresh_reports < 06:38:36 fizzie.refresh_reports: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 06:38:51 !bfjoust search_and_destroy (>(+)*11>(-)*13)*3(>[>>>>([(+)*7[-]]+>)*-1]-)*-1 06:38:52 mroman_.search_and_destroy: points 5.67, score 26.39, rank 10/47 (+12) 06:39:17 ... 06:39:21 what? 06:39:23 That made refresh_reports go up +33. 06:39:34 :D 06:39:44 ok 06:39:46 I see 06:39:46 !bfjoust refresh_reports .< 06:39:46 fizzie.refresh_reports: points -46.00, score 0.00, rank 47/47 (-33) 06:39:55 Then there's something terribly broken :D 06:40:01 Yes. 06:40:16 I have no idea what, though. It's not as if it's a very complicated piece of software. 06:40:16 I wonder if one can abuse this to get to #1 06:40:22 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 06:40:30 It would be cool to have <. on the major programs list :P 06:41:06 Writing an interpreter in burlesque is not as easy as i thought. 06:41:24 AndoDaan: mainly because blsq has no print 06:41:25 not that i thought it would be easy with my current level of skill. 06:41:41 otherwise the best way to write interpreters is to convert stuff into burlesque and then call e! 06:41:46 i just put output into the state stack. 06:42:13 how long is your deadfish now? 06:42:22 84 i think. 06:42:29 or 184... 06:42:39 but the one i'm writing is for the /// 06:43:02 just a 'fun' side project. 06:43:03 "Objective-C's memory management system is called reference counting. All you have to do is keep track of your references, and the runtime does the actual freeing of memory. " 06:44:56 so simple. 06:45:26 there's an h? 06:45:30 h isn't a deadfish instruction? 06:45:46 yeah, he uses it to terminate the program 06:46:09 kinda silly cuz it's always the last instrucction. 06:46:48 (how did teebee write a 6B blsq solution to what have i got in my pocket??) 06:47:56 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 06:49:19 I'm at 70B 06:49:38 ugh 06:51:45 69B 06:52:05 omg stop 06:52:11 :p 06:54:37 5min to lockdown 06:57:24 mroman_: I think for any ascii letter there's at least one programming language that's claimed that name. 06:58:33 the space of short extensions is bad too. there's at least two conflicting uses for .pl .m .obj extensions. 07:00:47 !blsq 26 26 26 ** ** 07:00:47 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 07:00:52 pfft 07:00:57 !blsq 26 26 26 .* .* 07:00:57 17576 07:01:05 bloody heck 07:05:29 and 2 byte long gs2 implementation? that sounds crazy 07:07:02 I don't know how it's possible. 07:07:28 the first char is probably O so let's brute force the second char 07:25:14 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:25:45 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 07:26:57 -!- Patashu has joined. 07:33:05 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 07:36:27 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 07:39:36 -!- kcm1700_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:40:20 -!- kcm1700 has joined. 07:41:13 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 07:41:54 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 07:57:06 -!- tromp_ has joined. 07:59:11 -!- tromp_ has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 07:59:46 -!- tromp_ has joined. 08:04:50 -!- tromp_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 08:05:00 http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Asksql 08:05:16 Does this actually count as vulnerable to SQL injection attacks? 08:15:37 Hehe. It's an SQL injection plugin for sufficiently privileged users. 08:17:05 I find the warning appropriate, people really should not use this plugin unless they understand what they're doing. Which includes everybody to whom "SQL injection" is just a scary buzzword. 08:21:41 -!- conehead has quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep). 08:56:25 "You are advised against using it until this security issue is resolved." Makes one wonder how they're going to "resolve" it, given the whole concept. 08:57:46 -!- shikhin has joined. 09:01:01 -!- shikhout has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 09:15:51 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 10:01:48 fizzie: priviliege escalation? 10:03:04 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 10:08:13 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 10:13:31 -!- boily has joined. 10:13:40 -!- oerjan has joined. 10:18:59 @messages- 10:19:00 fizzie said 4h 24m 38s ago: I wanted something that someone could potentially run as-is in their own system, and `cc is not that. 10:19:00 mroman_ said 4h 3m 32s ago: You're wrong. That's the way you golf on sites like codegolf.stackexchange.com but not on anagol 10:19:00 mroman_ said 4h 2m 27s ago: It's part of the solution to find untested cases so that you maybe can get an even shorter program 10:19:00 mroman_ said 4h 1m 38s ago: anagol is about writing the shortest program that passes the testcases. That's it. Nobody is asking you to write a program that does more than that ;) 10:19:00 mroman_ said 3h 59m 24s ago: Some solutions for some anagol challenges even use random() (i.e. rand(2) for challenges where you have to answer with yes/no). Other submissions (e.g. python) make use a hash function and then you just brute-force some crazy magic-formula that gives you the answer based on the hash of the input. 10:19:08 OK FINE 10:19:21 That was very confrontational. 10:19:49 Also I was under the impression that you were supposed to add a "(luck)" suffix or something if you wrote something that works every N'th time. 10:19:56 fizzie: just another brick in the wall 10:20:15 fizzie: that was my impression too. so why doesn't mroman_ know about it. 10:21:30 and i've seen at least one person mark their submission with (cheat) 10:22:26 I've seen that too, but maybe it's not such a strong custom, at least unless it's really blatant? Clearly there should be a set of rules and an EULA you need to click through about this. 10:22:29 of course the fact that the site itself doesn't _mention_ that stuff leads to it easily being forgotten. 10:23:54 #anagol seems not to have any publically /list-able info 10:24:25 I've been thinking about joining, but I don't really play golf. 10:24:50 Do you happen to know if they have some automated IRC-feedbackery about things happening on the site? 10:26:25 i'm not on the channel 10:28:46 channel has +s 10:31:05 @tell mroman_ [citation needed] 10:31:05 Consider it noted. 10:31:19 * oerjan cackles evilly 10:32:25 i suppose the name "anarchy" does tend to support it, sort of. 10:33:41 codegolf.com is not loading, i wanted to see if they have such a custom so maybe people are confusing anagol with it 10:37:04 "The Sun's surface is relatively cool. It's hotter than, like, Phoenix,[citation needed] --" (recent what-if) 10:41:56 a burning phoenix is pretty hot, i assume 10:46:43 probably some carbon-based flame temperature like, around a 1000 °C. so pretty hot, but not quite hot. 10:47:43 (if it's a fatty phœnix, then 800 or 900 degrees only.) 10:47:59 lol @ random brute force golfing 10:49:01 myname: did you hear about anagol's pid setting form 10:49:16 ? 10:49:33 http://golf.shinh.org/setpid.html 10:49:44 oerjan: oh, you mean you golf a large number to $$ in perl? 10:50:07 crazy 10:50:28 basically some golfers, especially in perl, made programs that depended on the pid being exactly right. which caused a strain on servers so they simply let people set the desired pid explicitly 10:51:01 do people also wait a decade to submit a program when the time() is just right? 10:51:19 Ruby's got a similar $$ too, I think. 10:51:23 well most problems have expiry dates 10:51:31 ok, but in the post-mortem 10:51:37 fizzie: well yeah the form page mentions ruby 11:08:59 why doesn't the anagolf site have metapost or metafont as a language? 11:13:39 -!- boily has quit (Quit: CATACLIMATIC CHICKEN). 11:19:28 -!- shikhin has joined. 11:20:35 -!- GeekDude has joined. 11:20:48 I feel like entering IOCCC 11:23:54 how tolerant is anagolf to whitespace differences in output? 11:23:55 let me try 11:25:43 tolerant apparently, to some differences at least 11:26:57 -!- fungot has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 11:27:26 -!- fizziew has joined. 11:27:32 -!- fizzie has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 11:27:45 I was just about to type an answer when my home interwebs broke. 11:28:02 Perhaps another power outage, like yesterday. 11:28:32 In case nobody replied, it's not terribly tolerant: a trailing newline at the end of the output seems fine, but e.g. extra newlines at the ends of lines are not. 11:28:43 Which is annoying from a Forth perspective, because '.' adds a space. 11:31:01 it accepted a trailing space at the end for me 11:31:11 at the very end of the output, that is 11:32:46 b_jonas: tolerant 11:32:55 I think whitespaces at the end of lines will be truncated 11:33:04 and I think it doesn't matter if stdout ends with \n or not 11:33:08 ok 11:33:30 @messages-low 11:33:30 oerjan said 1h 2m 24s ago: [citation needed] 11:34:09 Hm? 11:34:12 For luck solutions? 11:34:48 mroman_: no, for the fact this actually _is_ the anagolf culture 11:35:07 It is. 11:35:07 since i've heard before that adding (cheat) to your username is custom 11:35:21 You only append () when you base your answer on somebody else's. 11:35:27 like for post-mortem stuff 11:35:49 mroman_: also why is none of this written up on the website i say your citation is not reliable hth 11:36:01 (not on the hint website either) 11:36:07 well 11:36:10 it's on there 11:37:00 [link needed] 11:37:02 at least for certain tricks like 11:37:08 don't worry if it crashes with garbage to stderr 11:37:17 https://sites.google.com/site/codegolfingtips/python 11:37:27 well sure. you had that in the haskell tips. 11:37:32 "cheating" would only by stuff like finding some way to create state on the server 11:37:38 *only be 11:37:46 but anagol is specifically about passing the testcases 11:38:05 but it DOESN'T SAY SO ANYWHERE 11:38:07 oerjan: there are also "embed" solutions 11:38:14 like... if the testcase output is too short 11:38:22 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:38:23 people don't bother solving the actual problem but rather on compressing the output 11:38:43 (It's generally considered bad to provide too short testcases) 11:39:04 oerjan: I can't give you citations 11:39:18 I can only say that I've been golfing for years on anagol and I'm 24/7 in #anagol 11:39:19 mroman_: ok at this point i'm no longer doubting this is the case but i'm feeling like going on a killing rampage until someone actually puts it very clearly and explicitly on the frontpage. 11:39:38 (i'm not having a good day, see) 11:40:19 oerjan: http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Equations/tails_1308465224&pl 11:40:21 (neighbor's dog again) 11:40:53 http://golf.shinh.org/reveal.rb?Equations/leonid_1308457504&rb 11:40:59 these solutions just select random lines of the input 11:41:01 that's not a clear and explicit explanation and it's hidden in a problem please report for termination hth 11:41:22 mroman_: It's definitely not true about trailin whitespace at the ends of lines (other than the last). 11:41:30 fizziew: I see. 11:41:36 also stop linking irrelevant things i might snap and ban you hth 11:41:48 oerjan: Did I offend you in some way? 11:41:50 If so, I'm sorry. 11:42:10 i said i'm having a bad day. sorry. 11:42:34 once i start feeling this annoyed, everything else annoys me too. 11:43:30 i've complained to the neighbors several times and each time it gets better for a few days then slowly starts getting worse again. 11:44:47 Does it bark loudly at night? 11:44:58 no, it is never barking when they're home. 11:46:09 but i also have a completely broken sleeping schedule, which i don't see anything good coming from mentioning to them, so frequently i _am_ trying to sleep when it's barking. 11:46:58 but i'm not sure whether it grates on me more when i'm trying to sleep (i think i can sleep through at least _some_ of it) or when i am awake and trying to use the pc 11:47:02 late night shifts? 11:47:38 i don't have a 24 hour schedule, it keeps rotating 11:48:35 :( 11:49:20 damn gs2 is annoying me as well :) 11:52:11 -!- fizzie has joined. 11:52:26 Oh, this time it came up on its own. 11:52:44 -!- fizziew has quit (Quit: glurb). 11:53:28 !blsq {1 2 3 4}#q#s 11:53:28 4 11:53:37 hm 11:54:19 #q is pust ^p 11:54:25 for the purpose AndoDaan used it 11:55:48 -!- Patashu has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 11:56:12 hm 11:56:17 !blsq '~10.* 11:56:18 "~~~~~~~~~~" 11:56:29 !blsq '~cy\[10.+ 11:56:29 ERROR: Burlesque: (.+) Invalid arguments! 11:56:36 !blsq '~bc\[10.+ 11:56:36 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 11:56:44 !blsq '~bc\[1.+ 11:56:44 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 11:56:47 damn 11:56:52 -!- FreeFull has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 11:57:05 !blsq '~10.*1R@f~ 11:57:05 Ain't nobody got time fo' dat! 12:01:57 stranges interpreter error ever. 12:02:02 *strangest. 12:02:36 Well It would take forever to complete 12:02:37 so... 12:03:23 !blsq "Hi ~ there ~ you ~"{1 "Hans" {0 0}}f~ 12:03:23 "Hi 1 there Hans you [0, 0]" 12:04:30 !blsq "~"{1}f~ 12:04:30 "1" 12:04:32 !blsq "~"{1 2}f~ 12:04:33 "12" 12:04:34 !blsq "~"{1 2 3}f~ 12:04:35 "123" 12:04:37 hm 12:04:38 :D 12:04:44 woot 12:05:58 !blsq "~.~"{1 2 3}f~ 12:05:58 "1.23" 12:06:00 hm 12:06:03 this could be quite handy 12:06:24 !blsq "~.~""123"f~ 12:06:24 ERROR: Burlesque: (\[) Invalid arguments! 12:06:34 !blsq "~.~""123"XXf~ 12:06:34 "1.23" 12:08:51 oerjan: I btw. like that at anagol compared to stackexchange 12:09:12 codegolf.stackexchange has these weird prosa description of problems everybody interprets a little bit differently 12:09:30 they don't supply testcases (sometimes they do) 12:09:46 and there's no automated verification that your program does what you claim it to do 12:09:56 there's no real scoring mechanism 12:10:17 right, you'd want a test _program_ at least. 12:10:34 if you were to do more strictly than anagolf. 12:10:34 I'm honestly not a huge fan of the $$ thingy 12:10:43 they should give testcases 12:10:43 also setpid only works for the next submission I think 12:10:56 so if somebody else submits between setpid and your submission you have to do it again 12:11:05 (I think, I don't know for sure) 12:11:21 what they could have done to stop much random cheating is to rerun successful tests a few times 12:11:37 mroman_: of course. it basically just tries to fork so much the pid becomes the one you want, because pids are only 15 bit long this isn't hard 12:12:12 oh hm fork 12:12:29 well ulimit can prevent that 12:12:51 it would be easy to make randomness abuse much harder 12:13:25 yeah. rerunning would counter that to some degree 12:13:32 well 12:13:33 rerunning + ulimit 12:13:34 wait 12:13:35 no 12:13:41 run it -> capture stdout 12:13:44 don't do that 12:13:45 run it again -> capture stdout 12:13:52 if stdout isn't the same again -> reject 12:14:00 b_jonas: hm what? 12:14:09 oerjan: just make two runs of a submission 12:14:14 calc the hash of stdout and compare between runs 12:14:24 if hash isn't equal then the solution doesn't always produce the same output 12:14:30 -!- GeekDude has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 12:14:35 mroman_: sure, that could be fine (just probably ignore the whitespaces at the end) 12:14:38 mroman_: well that's equivalent to running the test twice, since intended stdout is fixed anyways 12:14:44 true 12:15:02 but shinh won't do that ;) 12:15:19 because there are already solutions on anagol doing random stuff 12:15:20 so 12:15:30 if he were to disallow random now 12:15:41 there will be random solutions you can't beat :) 12:17:52 just golf in Burlesque 12:17:53 you could make it an option for new problems, and even default it to true. 12:17:57 Burlesque has no random :D :P 12:18:19 it doesn't? i thought i saw you use random a while ago... 12:19:48 oh. 12:20:00 True. 12:20:07 but with a specific seed 12:20:15 (i.e. you need to provide a hardcoded seed) 12:20:26 at least it's reproducable this way 12:20:45 i.e. resubmitting the same program won't change it's output 12:21:02 they should use ais532's web o'flies to run the programs in a completely predictable environment >:) 12:21:51 -!- S1 has joined. 12:22:53 darn i was hoping the dog had finished for the day 12:25:10 grmbl there's no way to add code statistics after the fact if you forget to check the button 12:26:24 oerjan: right, you either need to find a better solution or submit under another name. 12:26:39 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?print+numbers+reversed i am wondering if everyone has the exact same solution or if int-e really has found a faster one 12:26:53 (my statistics are identical) 12:27:14 -!- King2218 has joined. 12:27:24 int-e: do you also use a function starting with a that is only needed for defaulting to work right? 12:27:42 I kinda whish you could replace solutions if they are the same length 12:27:55 mroman_: yeah i tried but it didn't work 12:28:02 I know. You can't. 12:28:25 oerjan: the measurements are flaky. time: 0.011596sec is what I got now 12:28:33 ah 12:28:56 oerjan: yes, I do, and it took me a while to find it. 12:30:44 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 12:30:53 -!- S1 has joined. 12:31:03 -!- S1 has left. 12:33:10 also what in the world is that Asteriks and Obeliks thing actually _doing_ 12:34:04 -!- S1 has joined. 12:34:27 i look at the first I/O example and think "oh simple", then i look at the second and think "wait what", then the third and think "wtf" 12:34:55 (fixed version) 12:37:17 oerjan: probably you just have to hard-code the three outputs 12:37:18 oerjan: figuring that out is half of the fun 12:37:25 ic 12:37:39 b_jonas: Nope. There's an algorithm behind it 12:37:49 the numbers mean how many * are in a column. 12:38:04 oerjan: and it's probably worthwhile, since I do not believe that my solution is optimal 12:38:22 but the output of those column is scewed 12:38:37 *skewed 12:40:12 also that problem would be more enjoyable if the server tolerated trailing spaces 12:40:12 in a weird way 12:40:56 oerjan: To be fair that's kinda an "insider" challenge on #anagol 12:43:30 From time to time it's fun when you even have to first figure out what the hell you're supposed to do 12:44:03 oh argh, http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Twelve+Days+of+Christmas uses more newlines in the output text than what I output in my old perl script 12:44:22 and a different text too 12:45:57 this has "true love sent to me", the one I use says "true love gave to me" 12:50:31 Pretty much every problem would be more tolerable with trailing spaces when writing in Forth. 12:50:54 Well, maybe that's an exaggeration. But any "sequence of numbers on separate lines" ones. 12:51:33 (That's funny: everything else here at home automatically boots up after a power outage, except for the completely non-managed "dumb" Ethernet switch, which requires a unplug-replug cycle.) 12:55:49 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 12:55:57 -!- S1 has joined. 13:01:36 -!- tromp_ has joined. 13:02:31 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 13:02:40 -!- S1 has joined. 13:02:44 and I've created that old compressed obfu partly by hand and partly by a somewhat obfuscated ruby script that I totally don't understand now 13:02:53 I'll probably have to write a completely new compressor 13:03:22 mind you, its comression method sucks for this anyway 13:04:04 -!- S1 has quit (Client Quit). 13:04:12 -!- S1 has joined. 13:05:52 I wonder if there is (or anyone's thought of adding) an "only allow packages with names like this from this repository" option to apt source configuration. I have things like emdebian in my sources.list.d for some cross-compilers, but I'm not terribly comfortable if that means they can replace any package I have with something malicious by publishing a "new version" of it. (I guess OTOH they could just put whatever they want in each of their legit package 13:24:42 If you're worried about actual malice (and not just indistinguishably similar incompetence) packages can already run arbitrary install scripts 13:27:55 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 13:28:42 "As of July 2014, updates to the Emdebian distributions ceased. There will be no further updates and no further stable releases." are they even still updating the toolchains? 13:29:38 the safety of servers with unattended-upgrades pretty much relies on the safety of the repository 13:30:12 if somebody can inject something malicious into the official security repos you're pretty much screwed 13:30:32 but I guess that's no different from windows, mac 13:30:43 mroman_: what's your height and mass (in planck units please) 13:31:03 elliott_: I don't know, I haven't used any of that stuff in a while. 13:32:06 quintopia: 1 and 1 13:32:29 .oO (what the hell is a planck unit) 13:33:03 It's quite small. 13:33:07 the minimal measurable distance 13:36:07 -!- S1 has changed nick to S0. 13:37:58 -!- S0 has changed nick to S1. 13:39:13 -!- Guest42306 has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 13:39:24 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 13:41:08 Knuth suggests, in 4.5.1 ex. 15, sabotaging your institution's compiler to replace all floating point operations by floating rational operations. But does any microprocessor have a gcd instruction? 13:43:08 Sounds unlikely. 13:45:34 Jafet: what Knuth work is this? 13:45:59 paul2520: The Art of Computer Programming (duh) 13:46:22 That's from the second book, Seminumerical Algorithms. 13:46:34 Jafet: Thanks 13:48:48 that's the one we call just "Knuth", on account it is the one whose Knuth checks contain only the chapter, not an abbreviation for the name of the book 13:49:08 b_jonas: okay, that makes sense. Thanks for explaining. 13:49:29 well, the checks aren't the real reason 13:49:32 but that's his main work 13:53:36 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 13:54:47 Jafet: I'm not sure if this is the official version, but it shows that problem as ex 14. http://bit.ly/1qp0edF 13:56:06 quintopia: Why do you ask btw? 13:57:41 There's a pancake-making machine. I used it, ate, but then kind of licked my fingers slightly. I used the pancake machine again, what if someone gets sick because of me :( 13:58:06 and you just confessed online. 13:58:40 the CDC will take care of that. 13:59:03 quarentine. 14:01:27 Is it likely that this is a common occurance, and I should not worry about it too much? 14:02:13 Do you have a deadly disease that can be transmitted via spit? 14:02:17 If not... then it's no big deal 14:02:22 If yes... well... 14:03:37 I have been feeling sniffly. So it's possible I do have a disease. And it could be deadly to elderly persons or the immunocompromised or young children 14:04:44 right 14:05:10 are you an overly-hygenic person? 14:08:25 Not when it comes to me personally. But in terms of trying to avoid utensils I'm not about to use, etc., possibly 14:09:51 Was once at a restaurant with friends. There was a large pretzel. I wanted a piece, but was nervous about touching the parts of the pretzel I wasn't going to take for myself. Was told that that's insane. 14:13:13 the baseline hygiene level of the world would have to be vastly higher for your caution to help the immunocompromised in any way 14:14:29 Hmm 14:15:36 ("the majority of people are vastly less concerned about such things and are, literally, everywhere" suffices to see this) 14:16:40 Ok. Kind of sad though 14:16:52 -!- impomatic_ has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 14:18:42 sure. having a weak immune system isn't great (but there are many not-great things about it beyond pancake machines) 14:19:43 Is it likely that this is a common occurance, and I should not worry about it too much? <-- merely by my experience of using public toilets, i suggest that people who don't care about hygiene when no one is watching is _frighteningly_ common and might even be a major factor in humanity's inability to efficiently eradicate infectious disease hth 14:22:19 :( 14:22:27 I think it happens even when people are watching 14:22:36 thanks for the periodic reminder to never use public toilets :p 14:23:34 for example, touching every bread and bun you're not going to buy seems to be a traditional part of Hungarian culture. that's how we love our bread. 14:24:29 elliott_: yw 14:25:13 elliott_: admittedly the places i frequent are not _usually_ that messy, but occasionally you see the results of someon not giving a fuck 14:25:16 *+e 14:25:23 -!- conehead has joined. 14:25:26 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 14:25:49 in case anyone is still at the edge of their seat, the "ssh install livecd run from ram loaded from the hard disk using syslinux/memdisk installed through the rescue system" plan works perfectly 14:25:58 I used to have a drinking buddy with AIDS. He did have to be careful about sharing drinks and so forth, but in general the biggest difficulty was that it meant he really couldn't go to the loo anywhere but home. 14:26:08 Certainly not in the horrowshow that passes for a bar toilet. 14:26:16 elliott_: http://thedoghousediaries.com/3286 14:27:30 also the swap thing wasn't really necessary, I could have just partitioned beforehand and I had to regenerate the ISO after that anyway :/ 14:27:33 but it was fun! 14:28:07 yeah, bars. this gets at least an order of magnitude worse around overly drunk people, of course. 14:28:45 a good solution is to not go to bars 14:32:35 oerjan: "people who don't care about hygiene when no one is watching is _frighteningly_ common" // I have a slightly more positive view. In a public toilet, if there is a slight miscalculation, a small misaim, nobody is going to clean it up. Because the moment you think to do so, you then think "how many OTHER people peed on the rim here? Ew." In a private toilet, if I miss, I'm going to grab some toilet paper and clean it up. 14:33:06 Multiply one drop of missed urine by 100 patrons, and nasty. 14:34:31 hm 14:35:02 It is the very revulsion to cleaning a mess that isn't our own that causes the mess that isn't our own. 14:36:00 -!- Lorenzo64 has joined. 14:37:09 I hear there are people paid to clean up public messes 14:37:23 Indeed! 14:41:15 -!- sebbu has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 14:43:23 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 14:44:42 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 14:46:49 J_Arcane: hu? @loo 14:46:54 Why's that? 14:48:16 hu@loo, the hungarian public toilet entertainment system 14:48:21 because of his decreased immune system? 14:48:41 sounds like a good bet 14:56:36 it does stand for "acquired immune deficiency syndrome" :) 15:00:19 Well 15:00:28 He could have also refrained from using those toilets out of fear to infect others 15:00:49 but then he wouldn't be worried about whether they were dirty 15:01:04 HIV is transmitted by three main routes: sexual contact, exposure to infected body fluids or tissues, and from mother to child during pregnancy, delivery, or breastfeeding (known as vertical transmission).[2] There is no risk of acquiring HIV if exposed to feces, nasal secretions, saliva, sputum, sweat, tears, urine, or vomit unless these are contaminated with blood.[29] 15:01:15 maybe if he jerked off in them. 15:03:07 or if he had ass cuts 15:03:49 http://images4.fanpop.com/image/polls/745000/745573_1307997462727_160.png?v=1307997467 15:04:03 see it's funny because 15:04:36 http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/78104000/gif/_78104505_deletekey2.gif I love stock photos of delete keys being hit dramatically 15:05:57 because fred 15:07:48 because ascot, see 15:07:58 I made a fred once 15:08:14 https://i.imgur.com/WhOha3g.jpg 15:08:40 i make myself laugh 15:09:55 oh 15:11:46 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:13:43 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds). 15:14:25 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds). 15:16:26 -!- oerjan has quit (Quit: fred være med dere). 15:20:10 mroman_: Sanitation is very important when you are immunocompromised. The average bar isn't necessarily as nasty as you'd think, except for the bathroom, which is sometimes putting your life in your hands even if you don't have a completely fucked immune system. 15:21:55 what about pancake machines :p 15:23:46 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 15:24:32 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 15:28:47 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:28:48 -!- GeekDude has joined. 15:29:29 -!- sebbu has quit (Changing host). 15:29:29 -!- sebbu has joined. 15:30:26 elliott_: Weirdly, I actually have heard some bad things about those ... 15:30:57 I can't remember what they are in any detail though, so I won't stick by them. ;) 15:31:19 -!- shikhin has joined. 15:31:23 okay. don't worry, Sgeo. they know the pancakes aren't safe. 15:31:27 Beware Of Pancakes 15:32:24 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to GeekAfk. 15:34:12 I seem to recall there were some issues with the temperature at which the automated machines kept the batter. 15:36:31 -!- mihow has joined. 15:43:07 -!- AnotherTest has joined. 15:43:08 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 15:43:18 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 15:47:52 why did Algol 60 have call by name? 15:50:11 so knuth's ridiculous test would be properly ridiculous 15:55:45 it just seems so bizarre, for an imperative language 15:56:04 J_Arcane, when did you have this friend? 15:56:37 Some 10 or 15 years back, I think, in the early 00's when I was still cooking for a living. 15:57:33 huh, i thought even then there were effective treatments 15:58:10 He was on treatments I think, but even so you have to be careful with the more egregious environs. 16:02:12 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 16:24:52 -!- Lorenzo64 has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 16:34:04 -!- nycs has joined. 16:35:12 -!- `^_^v has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 16:46:51 -!- King2218 has quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client). 17:00:42 -!- S1 has quit (Quit: S1). 17:09:54 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 17:11:03 -!- MoALTz has joined. 17:12:53 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds). 17:17:05 -!- FreeFull has joined. 17:18:32 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 17:22:06 wharrgarbl 17:29:47 Yesterday I have heard some important insights about Christian trinity. His logic was imperfect and oversimplified, but this may be to make it easier for other people as well as to make it to be Christian. He mentioned that just as a man may be a husband, a son, and a father, so: [1] God created man in His own image/likeness. [2] Men have trinities. [3] Therefore, God is also trinity. 17:30:04 Of course there are things wrong with that. I can mention what I can see, at least, if you want. 17:31:18 For one thing, [1] is too vague, and also is irrelevant to the argument as I shall point out. 17:33:47 Also, [2] is too oversimplified. A man is not only a husband, sun, and father, but may also be an uncle, cousin, employer, employee, friend, etc. And then that only gets to some relations with other people; there are many more things! Just as any other lifeform, a man consists of a collection of cells, and just as any other matter, a man consists of a collection of atoms. Furthermore, other things also can be described as many different functions a 17:35:09 cut off at "different functions a" 17:35:17 Furthermore, other things also can be described as many different functions as different ways! 17:42:11 ERGO: there is no God! 17:43:25 It doesn't conclude that, either. 17:43:47 -!- `^_^ has joined. 17:45:06 -!- nycs has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 17:45:34 I have a whole passage introducing a novella I've been tinkering with on how [1] there is so often grossly misunderstood ... 17:46:06 J_Arcane: You do? I didn't know you had such a thing. 17:46:56 I haven't actually posted it yet; it's still an unfinished draft. 17:47:03 Ah, OK. 17:47:38 I've long held that that passage more likely refers to the creative impulse, something largely unique to people. 17:50:12 That is an interesting view. 17:50:20 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 17:51:08 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds). 17:53:39 i've long held it's more likely the creation went in the other direction 17:53:46 What are your religious views anyways? (I am curious to know) 17:55:15 quintopia: Well, in a more literal sense, yes man created God in his own image, but I would also say that GOD extremely indirectly "created" everything else too. Just as the natural processes of evolution and other stuff can also create a man who can also create scientific theories to account for such thing. 17:55:25 diginet: because call by name is awesome 17:55:56 It's essentially macros 17:56:03 of some sort 17:56:17 mroman_: I like real macros though 17:56:49 Who doesn't. 17:57:05 zzo38: it's not clear what you mean by "GOD" at this point though, and I'm sure, whatever it is, it doesn't add any explanatory power to our scientific theories 17:57:06 I think it is generally better than an implementation of a "call by name", though 17:57:17 quintopia: I agree with that completely. 17:58:15 god created man in his own image, and lo, /home/god/human.png was created 17:58:18 thanks I'm here all week 17:58:19 I never claimed it would add any power to scientific theories. 17:58:48 elliott_: O, you interpret it like that... 17:58:49 elliott_: can god please make an osx image that runs virtualized on my processor 17:59:00 I'm sure one exists 17:59:13 probably. just not one of 10.9 18:00:07 What's wrong with 10.9 for that use case? 18:01:43 well, the main problem is my AMD A8-5500 APU 18:01:52 running OS X virtualised is very underwhelming. 18:02:02 the graphics performance is awful (no acceleration whatsoever) and stuff barely works 18:02:05 and it's very slow 18:02:15 I can't recommend it. 18:02:36 Niresh supposedly runs on AMD, but the boot fails on virtualbox, and installation freezes on vmware, unless you unlock the osx vm stuff, in which case it just won't boot at all. 18:02:39 so 18:02:40 But what if you simply need to run it and it doesn't matter the speed? 18:02:45 ^ 18:03:07 all i want it for is to be able to build executables for an osx environment 18:03:13 maybe try http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~somlo/OSXKVM/ 18:03:27 elliott_: heh. the book actually starts with a code snippet: (begin (define universe (void))) ;) It's sort of a "American Gods through the lens of programming" thing. No idea yet if it's going anywhere. 18:03:31 but I think it'll always be painful with AMD. 18:04:43 quintopia: honestly, it's probably going to be more than $599 of fuss, so I'd just get a mac mini. but it looks like you should be able to use clang to cross-compile for OS X, at least; https://github.com/tpoechtrager/osxcross. 18:05:46 -!- Bicyclidine has joined. 18:05:58 Does anyone buy Macs because they prefer Cocoa? 18:06:18 do people buy macs so they can program for macs? ...sure 18:06:48 sounds wack 18:06:51 Well, I have noticed that it seems like people who are really good at UI design all seem to wind up developing for Macs. 18:08:05 maybe they get tired of thinking about xlib 18:08:33 the mac has a very long history/culture of UI design and HIG, yeah 18:09:05 I mean, that's basically what its success was built on: you could point at things instead of typing on a VT or whatever! 18:09:12 Like, I would kill for Boxer or OpenEmu on Windows. . . 18:09:28 And yeah, that and the number of graphics designers who're already using the platform. 18:09:38 elliott_: Well, and now you can even do both. 18:09:47 thank god. 18:09:57 zzo38: sadly macs do not ship with physical VTs :( 18:10:00 Boxer? OpenEmu? 18:10:10 but they totally should!! free vt100 with every purchase 18:10:25 Ah. Ooh. 18:10:27 :D 18:10:27 emulators, apparently 18:10:27 elliott_: Yes, but I suppose if you have one you can use it, and if not you can still use a vt100 terminal emulator; it has a built-in terminal emulator which is mostly compatible these days. 18:10:44 (Not perfectly VT100 compatible, but good enough for nearly all uses today, at least.) 18:10:55 Sgeo: Emu frontends, for DosBox and Multisystem, respectively. 18:11:00 i'm honestly weirded out by the whiplash between "macs have good interfaces" and "BUT WHAT ABOUT VT" 18:11:39 Bycyclidine: Don't you think Amiga might have had a better interface? I haven't ever used Amiga, but from what I have read seems better than the original Macintosh computers 18:11:58 amiga is older than me 18:12:04 Boxer is a drag and drop frontend: Drag zip/folder of a DOS game onto icon, instantly creates shortcut, accurate conf, etc etc. And all years before GOG.com came along at that. 18:12:11 Amiga combined a GUI with a command-line interface as well as doing many other things, such as AREXX 18:12:30 i think my only experience with mac gaming is marathon 18:12:49 That paper airplane Mac OS game was nice. 18:12:54 So if you don't have a VT100 you can emulate it. 18:13:01 And that one vector thing. 18:13:23 gonna buy me a vectrex 18:13:40 gosh, only $529 used 18:13:52 quintopia: oh, hey, on that kvm page it has 3.4. Boot OS X on QEMU without KVM hardware assistance 18:14:07 looks like it's impractical, but at least having an AMD shouldn't be an obstacle in theory then 18:15:31 elliott_: the only obstacle in theory then is doing it all in windows :P 18:15:41 well, don't do that 18:15:45 or at least start by installing a linux vm 18:17:26 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 18:17:40 elliott_: oh man. vms in vms. i think i'm just gonna give up instead. 18:18:02 the easiest thing is to find someone willing to lend you a mac :p 18:19:15 -!- AnotherTest has quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds). 18:22:10 mroman_: Given these recent topics, perhaps you should add that cumulative-sum builtin. I mean, even MATLAB's got one. 18:22:48 matlab also has a magic square generator 18:23:53 I mean, it'd be 40ro??#S (where ?? is a cumulative sum) and that's it, if it worked on blocks. 18:24:10 I've used magic(n) a couple of times. 18:24:42 random posix weirdness question: is there any variable in make (probably GNU) that gives you the makefile's absolute path 18:35:47 fizzie: I'm not sure if I release 1.7.4 18:36:10 with every update old solutions are mostly deprecated 18:36:20 because now there's a builtin that does the same thing with less chars 18:36:41 and it's too much effort to check all your old submissions for new shortcuts 18:36:58 write something to fix the old ones automatically 18:38:58 -!- `^_^ has changed nick to `^_^v. 18:41:18 I'm working on something else currently anyway 18:41:46 http://mroman.ch/ngbl/ 18:41:49 ^- that one! 18:43:09 -!- GeekAfk has changed nick to GeekDude. 18:46:23 -!- perrier has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 18:50:51 is that a joke? 18:52:00 I think it's quite unfair that anagolf's Befunge(-93) "." does not put the space after the number (completely contrary to the language spec) while the Befunge-98 one does. 18:52:05 There hasn't been a ngbl reseller in my area for years. 18:52:05 or phonebooks 18:52:56 -!- AndoDaan_ has joined. 18:53:11 -!- Bicyclidine has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 18:55:34 @tell Bicyclidine $(realpath .) in GNU Make might have been helpful. 18:55:34 Consider it noted. 18:55:41 (I completely didn't notice the question.) 18:56:32 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 18:58:09 AndoDaan_: If you fund me 1 Mio. $$$ it's not a Joke 18:58:14 otherwise... it *might* be a joke 18:58:22 but you can never be sure about how serious I am about stuff 18:58:29 fizzie: http://codepad.org/LS9sHDGN 18:58:33 Does that look about right? 18:59:10 uh. damn 18:59:11 no 18:59:18 needs to be ADD 4 19:00:38 I don't know the language, so I couldn't possibly comment about that side, but the overall structure looked quite sane. 19:01:49 LDW,STW are just Load and Store Word 19:02:00 LDW R3 R0 loads a word at address R0 into R3 19:02:08 STW R1 R4 stores R4 to address R1 19:02:30 Would it be at all reasonable to learn Cocoa and Cocoa Touch by looking at it through Swift instead of Objective-C? 19:02:43 I guessed as much, but one couldn't really tell from the sample whether the addresses are word- or sub-word-unit-based. 19:02:54 I guess not http://www.bignerdranch.com/blog/ios-developers-need-to-know-objective-c/ 19:02:55 true :) 19:03:18 assembly is more fun than Burlesque . 19:03:47 * Sgeo ignores the "Objective-C is easier to learn than Swift" bit 19:03:50 Now I only need to write a routine that converts integers to Strings 19:04:37 fun fact: All jumps write to return address 19:04:44 there's no distinction between calls and jumps 19:04:56 (there's no CALL instruction. CALL is essentially JMP) 19:05:08 extra fun fact: it's one's complement 19:05:49 Um. Is $600 a lot for a computer I'm only interested in because the OS seems interesting? That seems likely 19:07:01 http://codepad.org/oOrGV53a <- the spec 19:07:05 but codepad messes up some tabs :( 19:07:57 Aw, the http://www.mokehehe.com/z80golf/ link at https://sites.google.com/site/codegolfingtips/Home/z80 just goes to an ad portal thing. 19:08:04 yep 19:08:15 I guess it's too late to learn that now. :) 19:09:42 -!- not^v has joined. 19:10:09 oh 19:10:13 and it's POP I S 19:10:49 I haven't a working emulator so far 19:11:06 *I don't have a working 19:13:34 hm 19:13:43 Didn't Haskell have IOVector? 19:13:46 or something? 19:13:56 I need efficient arrays if I'm going to do that in Haskell 19:14:42 IOArray 19:15:35 @hackage vector 19:15:36 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/vector 19:15:36 use that 19:15:37 is unboxed faster than boxed? 19:15:44 but use HashMap first. 19:15:46 @hackage unordered-containers 19:15:47 http://hackage.haskell.org/package/unordered-containers 19:16:16 why HashMap? 19:16:16 -!- MoALTz has joined. 19:16:32 it's immutable 19:16:38 can avoid copying and mutation 19:16:44 vectors you have to choose between copying or mutation 19:16:55 sharing is more powerful than you think; going straight to vectors is inadvisable when a hashmap might work 19:17:43 and IOArray? 19:17:46 not fast? 19:18:52 the Data.Array interface is generally deprecated in favour of vector when possible 19:18:59 vector has a nicer API and it's faster. 19:19:01 (I believe.) 19:19:04 k 19:19:19 Data.Vector.Unboxed.Mutable 19:19:30 is unboxed faster for fixed with stuff? 19:19:42 *width 19:20:25 is there no chance I can convince you to try HashMap first? 19:20:43 hm 19:21:07 is that fast for lots of read/write accesses? 19:21:32 HashMap Int Word8 is what you recommend? 19:21:34 it has good asymptomatics and is pretty micro-optimised too 19:21:36 log time for most stuff 19:21:41 yes, I'd try that to start with 19:22:09 you can also use IntMap for Int keys, but I think HashMap is faster. 19:22:10 and I keep that in a monad state? 19:22:19 or just pass as arguments to my eval function? 19:22:49 whichever ends up being cleanest, really; I generally dislike huge transformer stacks 19:23:12 if it's in your State then it'll be pretty easy to translate to a mutable vector using ST if needs be 19:26:07 I need IO anyway 19:26:22 as long as put doesn't pile up huge memory junsk 19:26:47 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 19:27:02 you should use the strict State monad 19:27:29 which won't be entirely strict. because HashMap isn't. but that's actually what you want :) 19:29:54 -!- Sgeo has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 19:38:26 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40592&oldid=40533 * 204.185.95.251 * (+3) /* small s.c.r.i.p.t. */ 19:39:02 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40593&oldid=40592 * 204.185.95.251 * (-6) /* small s.c.r.i.p.t. */ 19:40:07 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40594&oldid=40593 * 204.185.95.251 * (-1) /* SMATINY */ 19:40:43 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40595&oldid=40594 * 204.185.95.251 * (-457) /* SMITH# */ 19:42:03 -!- bermac25 has joined. 19:45:01 hi bermac25 19:45:14 hi elliott 19:45:20 `welcome 19:45:21 Welcome to the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment! For more information, check out our wiki: . (For the other kind of esoterica, try #esoteric on irc.dal.net.) 19:45:51 [wiki] [[Hello world program in esoteric languages]] M http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?diff=40596&oldid=40595 * Ehird * (+461) Reverted edits by [[Special:Contributions/204.185.95.251|204.185.95.251]] ([[User talk:204.185.95.251|talk]]) to last revision by [[User:GermanyBoy|GermanyBoy]] 19:46:21 [wiki] [[Special:Log/block]] block * Ehird * blocked [[User:204.185.95.251]] with an expiry time of 2 hours (anonymous users only): too sad an attempt to block for longer 19:46:32 thAnKs 19:47:28 are you using Tails? seems weird for them to infoleak in the IRC username like that, but I guess it's because the unix username is "amnesia" or something 19:47:28 -!- bermac25 has left. 19:48:09 oops. 19:48:14 guess I hecked their aim 19:48:33 What is that? 19:48:37 elliott_: I guess I can abstract in a Memory-Module 19:48:39 `quote heck 19:48:39 8) Lil`Cube: you had cavity searches? not yet trying to thou, just so I can check it off on my list of things to expirence \ 169) elliott: just to bring you up to speed, you are now my baby nephew. wtf, elliott is a nephew and his uncle is here? what Heck yes I'm elliott's uncl 19:48:45 `quote aim.*heck 19:48:45 719) aim hecker (n): when ur dronk and u pee so bad all over the toilet that ppl make fun of u (corruption of "aim heckler") 19:48:49 so I can exchange it by import Foo.Memory.HashMap 19:48:53 or Foo.Memory.IOArray 19:48:57 something like that 19:53:56 -!- not^v has quit (Quit: http://i.imgur.com/Akc6r.gif). 19:53:57 -!- AndoDaan has joined. 19:56:00 -!- AndoDaan_ has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 19:56:52 What do the common terminal emulators do with CSI 5i and CSI 4i escape codes? 20:02:38 -!- kcm1700_ has joined. 20:02:56 -!- kcm1700 has quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer). 20:03:49 -!- MoALTz has quit (Quit: Leaving). 20:04:23 At least PuTTY seems to ignore it when printing is disabled otherwise redirects output to the printer, and finishes the print job when CSI 4i is activated. 20:04:44 However, one document says "Start log; all received text is echoed to a printer." 20:05:48 -!- Bike has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 20:06:41 -!- Patashu has joined. 20:06:44 Another document says "Auto Print" is supposed to send to both but "Print Controller" is for printer only. 20:08:27 -!- augur has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 20:11:57 -!- drdanmaku has quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity). 20:12:30 O, now I see; I need to put a question mark before the 4 or 5. 20:13:27 Such thing still seems to be finishing the print job when CSI ?4i is sent; I do not want it to do that, though. 20:15:33 -!- Sprocklem has joined. 20:15:44 What is the correct implementation? 20:23:41 -!- MoALTz has joined. 20:27:12 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to geekafk. 20:30:25 -!- Bike has joined. 20:43:36 -!- geekafk has changed nick to GeekDude. 20:49:48 -!- drdanmaku has joined. 21:15:04 -!- shikhout has joined. 21:17:42 -!- Sprocklem has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:17:53 -!- shikhin has quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds). 21:25:38 -!- GeekDude has changed nick to GeekAfk. 21:26:08 -!- tlvb has joined. 21:28:45 -!- GeekAfk has quit (Quit: {{{}}{{{}}{{}}}{{}}} (www.adiirc.com)). 21:32:15 THe question mark-prefixed control sequences are typically nonstandard extensions, I think 21:36:11 According to ECMA-48, "CSI 5 i" is "start relay to a primary auxiliary device" and "CSI 4 i" is defined similarly for stopping, so it's not limited to printing it seems 21:37:04 FireFly: I know that the question mark means that, but I am unsure, if CSI 5 i is supposed to cause the output on both devices? 21:38:47 No clue about that 21:39:02 -!- Lymia has quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds). 21:40:04 -!- Lymia has joined. 21:40:45 And either way, is it supposed to finish a print job in such a case? 21:45:46 Taneb: are you taking a linear algebra module 21:46:00 shachaf, SORT OF 21:46:17 I have linear algebra next term, but I have a vision and graphics module that had affine transformations 21:48:17 Taneb: do you know about affine and linear functions that are just : R -> R 21:48:29 I did not 21:48:29 "the boring ones" 21:48:59 (Only been shown R^2 -> R^2 and R^3 -> R^3) 21:49:19 (R -> R is not particularly relevant for computer vision or graphics, I guess) 21:49:46 Well, a linear function : R -> R is always of the form (\x -> k * x) 21:49:50 For some k. 21:50:13 And an affine function : R -> R is always of the form (\x -> k * x + j) for some k and j 21:50:23 Isn't it \x -> k*x + c? 21:50:25 (I'm not sure why I'm using those letters.) 21:51:24 No, that's affine. 21:52:52 Insert affine-fine joke here. 21:52:54 Compare to lenses, where Lens' s a means (s ~~ (k,a)), and AffineTraversal' s a means (s ~~ (k,a) + c) 21:53:41 Oooh 21:54:47 And of course a traversal means (s ~~ z + (y,a) + (x,a^2) + (w,a^3) + ...) 21:55:01 Hmm, not exactly. 21:55:18 Oh, yes exactly. 21:55:35 And a relevant traversal means (s ~~ (y,a) + (x,a^2) + (w,a^3) + ...) 21:56:44 Interesting! 21:57:29 -!- AndoDaan has quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds). 22:02:34 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:03:53 -!- tlvb has changed nick to tlvb-amplified. 22:04:13 -!- tlvb-amplified has changed nick to tlvb. 22:11:14 @tell int-e also that problem would be more enjoyable if the server tolerated trailing spaces <-- i see what you mean, i thought i had beaten you easily right until i actually tried submitting it... 22:11:14 Consider it noted. 22:11:35 Which problem? 22:11:51 http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Asteriks+and+Obeliks+FIXED 22:12:19 that website loads so quickly 22:12:38 i wouldn't know, i had the tab open already 22:12:39 it's just a little bit of html. it doesn't even load google analytics or fancy images 22:12:52 oh you weren't being sarcastic 22:12:54 how unusual 22:13:12 are you confusing me with elliott 22:13:28 no, with humanity of this age 22:13:31 I probably shouldn't have said that. :-( 22:13:38 It is good, I don't like it to have Google analytics and a lot of fancy images and fancy CSS 22:21:52 -!- Phantom_Hoover has joined. 22:25:17 -!- GeekDude has joined. 23:01:32 @tell mroman_ http://mroman.ch/ngbl/ <-- It's -> Its hth 23:01:33 Consider it noted. 23:02:09 its spelled ht'h, not hth 23:02:48 have t' help 23:02:54 oerjan is now a Yorkshireman 23:03:51 now its note spelt inn thus weigh 23:05:12 oerjan, I don't think you quite know what Yorkshirefolk sound like 23:05:43 d'e greit sjø 23:08:25 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:08:54 -!- erdic has joined. 23:23:48 -!- erdic has quit (Remote host closed the connection). 23:24:14 -!- erdic has joined. 23:29:27 by gum what's all this yorkshire talk 23:35:12 I see how the first and third samples of that anarchy golf task fit together, but not the second one.. 23:36:40 Oh hm 23:37:18 never mind 23:45:21 FireFly: i also thought that for a while... 23:46:17 because except for the last column of that second example, all the "columns" are in a straight line 23:46:58 (i guess those are supposed to be the obelisks alluded to) 23:47:32 -!- mihow has quit (Quit: mihow). 23:52:47 -!- mihow has joined. 23:52:57 -!- Phantom_Hoover has quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds). 23:54:12 -!- mihow has quit (Client Quit). 23:55:25 > (3,1,2) & partsOf each %~ sort 23:55:28 (1,2,3)